Fantasy Football Daily - Breaking down NFL Rookies w/ Senior Bowl Executive Director Jim Nagy

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Fantasy Points' Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) is joined by Senior Bowl Executive Director, Jim Nagy, to discuss some of the top rookies like Bijan Robinson, Zach Charbonnet, and Jaxon Smith-Njigba and how they will fare during the first year of their NFL journey. Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoints.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to the Fantasy Points podcast. I'm your host today, Scott Barrett. Our guest is going to be, this is a pre-recorded introduction, Our guest is going to be my favorite guest to ever having a podcast. Jim Nagy, if you ever hear me say that about another guest, I'd be lying, but I'm not a liar,

so I'm not going to say that. Jim brought the goods today. We talked about some of his who he thought won the draft, one day one, one day two, won the entire draft. We talk about some of our favorite landing spots and some more general questions about the draft podcast. Really excited for you to listen to this episode. I also wanted to give you an update on some of the stuff I'm working on right now. This was recorded before the release of the NFL schedule.

So next week, I'm going to have a series of articles breaking down the top strength of schedules from a fantasy perspective. I think I do this in a really unique way, a really actionable way that's better than anyone else. Truthfully, I've been doing this for a number of years. I know most people think, oh, you know, it's overrated, it doesn't really mean much. It does. It does matter at the polar extremes. And for players who might have had a bottom five schedule last year, but now have a top five schedule, that can be worth an additional, you know, two fantasy points for game to their projections. That really adds up.

That really gives a big edge. These articles are going to be paywalled. So I do suggest you subscribe. But we do have a bunch of free content coming out. just watch 80 hours of post-draft press conferences to give you the top six to top 10 most actual fantasy takeaways spent all the time. I enjoyed it because I'm a freak like that. But going to save you some time, that's going to be out in a video form on our YouTube. Check out our YouTube. Please follow, subscribe, like, comment, all that helps us out with the YouTube

algorithm. If we do well with YouTube, I'll keep doing some more YouTube stuff like that. also have my top tight-end rookie rankings that articles out, but that's also a video that's out. And then running back and wide receiver is already out as articles. We'll be out in video form very soon. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, the great Jim Nagy, the director of the Senior Bowl, former scout for a number of Super Bowl winning teams. Let's go. Jim, congratulations on another successful draft cycle. I just wrapped up my annual post draft presser review where I watched about 80 hours of post draft press conferences looking for any sort of meaningful fantasy takeaways. And I couldn't count how many times I heard a GM say, well, the senior bowl is an

invaluable part of our process. Jim does such a great job with that. So congrats again, Jim. Oh, thanks, man. That's nice to hear. We actually have someone in-house that's doing the same project right now that you are. So, but yeah, man, thank you for saying that. That means a lot. Yeah, the Bears had a good line. They said, you know, all these, all these players are thanking their college coaches when you should be thanking their senior bowl coaches because I know they took a lot of senior bowl players in their draft. Well, they did it. Ryan Poles and I used to work together in Kansas City and he did an awesome job, sending some guys our way. You know, obviously, Luke Getzzi was the head coach of one of the teams. And they, gosh, I think they had four.

or five different coaches on the staff. So yeah, they had a lot of great takeaways. And then, and then Ryan himself, you know, was in some meetings. And I know that he and I were texting after they picked Darnell Wright. And he was talking about being in the offensive line room sitting behind Darnell Wright and watching him take notes and take coaching and some of the some of the great takeaways he had. So yeah, man, they came down here with their sleeves rolled up and put a lot of good work. So I was reading your article from the 33rd team. And you listed the Falcons as one of the biggest winners from day one. And so I'm curious, what would you say to all of the people on Twitter who thought that basically they took a running back too early?

That's supposedly a devalued position in today's NFL. And then what sort of potential do you see for Bejan Robinson in this Arthur Smith offense? Yeah, you know, I know that's the conventional wisdom now with some of the analytics. I don't think that should affect fantasy people. You know, I mean, who cares how these guys are building their teams when you're a fantasy owner? And to me, the value is, the value goes back to the head coach in the offensive staff and how they plan on using them.

Who's to say how much value Bijan Robinson has? They weren't privy to Arthur Smith's conversations with their offensive staff, so they don't know how they're going to use the guy. Yeah, I just thought it was a, you know, L.GIR did a great job last year and ran for all those yards, hit a thousand yards as a rookie. but Bijon is borderline special player. You know, we didn't get to start watching him until after the senior ball and went back and watched that tape. And, you know, you kind of hear a lot about Bijon.

He's been one of the names in college football for the last three years. But until you really get focused and get your eyes trained on him, like, I didn't know how good he was. He's pretty unique, man. He makes it look easy at that level, really easy. So I would expect the guy to have a major impact on that football team. and again, just the weaponry. I mean, they could move him around. Some of this stuff he did down the field,

catching the football. You don't see a lot of running backs do. So I think there's some positional versatility that he's going to have. And again, you've got a creative offensive coordinator, you know, former offensive coordinator like Arthur Smith. They're going to use that guy a bunch. So there's no reason why they can't use it in the same backfield with Alger. So no, man, I thought it was a great fit.

It was a great fit. You know, they obviously have a plan for him. And he's super talented. They got one of the top two or three players in this year. draft at eight. So to me, there's value in that. Yeah, I mean, from a fantasy perspective, you know, we couldn't be more excited. Like you said, Al Jir was so productive despite working in a committee. Falcons led the league and rushing attempts despite a seven and ten record. So right now in dynasty leagues, he's the most valuable running back and redraft leagues. He's like the fourth most

valuable running back. So yeah, the fantasy community couldn't be ecstatic and really did like that that draft capital is sort of the, you know, analytics crowd on Twitter who says Bejohn Robinson should have went round three or something absurd. Well, Scala, I'll cut you up real quick. I mean, that's one of the other reasons I like the pick is, is they decided to go with Desmond Ritter for another year, which I was totally on board with. I thought that was the right call. I really kind of equated to Jalen Hertz, you know, a year ago going into last year,

people, there was a lot of people, you know, on Twitter saying, you know, what are the Eagles doing? like why aren't they drafted a quarterback like jalen hurts can't be the guy um and how we got rewarded um forgiven jalen that next year i think i think i think desmond ritter did enough in that last month of the season to warrant a longer look right and now and now it's not going to be all on him i mean you're giving him the opportunity but i've got another back that you can just lean into and run a lot of play action stuff with so um just overall like the team the team building concept i thought i thought it was a really good pick for Atlanta yeah that's that's great that was actually going to be one of my follow-up questions on Desmond Ritter and what you see in him. I know you were pretty high on him

last year. We talked about him. And from a fantasy perspective, again, just like, you know, rare unicorn talents in a Kyle Pitts and a Bijan Robinson and a Drake London. So he does see him set up for success, both from an NFL perspective and a fantasy perspective. But that was your, that was your day one of your day one takeaways. In your next article, you listed Pittsburgh as the top winner from day two. You said you spoke to a number of teams who had Darnell, Washington graded as the top tight end in the class. So I'm just confused. Like, how could he fall that far to late day three? I always like wonder with this medical stuff. Like, I don't know anything about this, but like Taji Spears went even earlier, despite missing an ACL in one of his

knees. So, so like when does this sort of stuff matter? And did you think this, you know, it's kind of, kind of too far of a fall for darnel Washington. Yeah, and I don't know a lot about the medical, Scott. I read some things online that it could be medical. And then I saw Darnell kind of dispute that, that he'd never had any injuries, knee injuries. So I don't know what. And I usually, with all our guys that go undrafted or some of our guys that slide,

I'll be texting guys during the draft or follow up the calls after the draft. Like, hey, why did this happen? Like, why did so and so fall out of the draft? Why did so and so slip? But because Darnell is not a senior ball guy. I haven't done that yet. But no, for where they took him, it was incredible value. I mean, he was one of the guys when we circled the wagons and started watching all the juniors.

He's a unique guy. I mean, you're looking for unique mismatch players. I thought he had a chance to be the first tight end taken after going through watching all those, watching all those tight ends. I mean, Dalton Kincaid. I mean, I love him. We had him committed here to play here in the Senior Bowl. You know, but he had medical stuff. You know, you watch Michael Mayer's tape.

I feel like we've been talking about Michael Mayer on social media for so long. I felt like after watching me is maybe a little bit overhyped, you know, online after watching him, I thought darn else, a guy, you really have a chance to hit on because just from a size perspective and athleticism, size and speed, I mean, you got a guy that looks almost like a third tackle. I mean, when you look at them and when he's a lot, when he was tied to the line of scrimmage at the Y position, it looked like they were in like a heavy set. They looked like they were going with three. And then he runs a route, you know, like then he gets out and runs the seam. And frankly, like, they used him a lot in the flats at Georgia. They did not run him down

the seam a bunch. I think, again, not criticized anything they did. They won a national championship, right? So who am I to question what Munkin was doing there at Georgia? But they did not. They didn't fully utilize journal Washington to his capabilities, one down the seed and two in the red zone. So a really cool weapon for Kenny Pickett, man. This guy is going to be a mismatch problem. What do you see for him in the short term? I know on our last podcast. You talked about his his long term upside. I feel bad for the guy. You know, he's like stuck behind Brock Bowers, this generational talent at Georgia. Now he's stuck behind this great pass catching tight end and Pat Fryermuth. He has on his Instagram profile, hashtag like sixth

offensive linemen, something like that. So is that what you envision is, uh, because you did say there's a lot of potential for him as he, he grows and develops. So maybe starts off as like, you know, the second tight end in 12 where he's spending a lot of time blocking, but maybe he develops as a more polished route runner over time. To me from a fantasy perspective, it's just hard when you have two really good tight ends like that because they usually eat into each other's targets and whatnot. I think for a guy like Darnell,

if you're not going to be using him down the field, I do think his skill set just really lends itself in the red zone. And just trying to tie him to a guy that had some success last year as a rookie that I'll raise my hand, like we whiffed on a little bit. is Jolani Woods from, from Virginia that the Colts took. And again, I didn't invite Jolani to last year's senior bowl. Like he was kind of on the outside looking in. And he really was a late riser.

Most teams had Jolani in like the fifth or sixth round, you know, in November and December when we were putting the roster together. And then he goes and has it, you know, blows up his pro day and tests out of the waters and did some good things for the Colts last year. That's why I mean, I have no problem admit to a mistake there. Like we probably should have brought him now in hindsight. But to me, Darnell Washington's tape was that much better. I mean, Darnell Washington would have been like a no-brainer,

whereas we were really, I mean, he was around the cut line for us, Jolani Woods was. So to me, that's where I would get excited about what Washington could be because they are, that's probably the best comp right now in the league right now for Darna, Washington is Jolani Woods. And I just felt like he was that much of a better player. So we'll see. But it's hard.

Like you said with the Friarmoot deal, man, those guys split in targets. And you're going to have to get Pickens as touches. and Naji and it's a good problem for Pittsburgh to have, but for fantasy owners, it might not be great. Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's a good comp, too, just two absolute all-time freak athletes, Shalani Woods, Starnell, Washington.

So we just hit on a day one winner, a day two winner. I'm curious, who do you think had the best drafts all three days in combination? Or maybe what two teams if the Eagles are too obvious? Thought the Eagles did a really good job again. anytime you get Nolan Smith at 30 and you got a chance to hit on, hit on Jalen Carter where they did. I think that's a great draft. I thought Pittsburgh really did a great job.

A little bit of Homer. I don't mean it to be Homer here. I thought Seattle nailed it again for the second year in a row. It's my old team. It's my last place I work. So those guys are those are my guys up there. I thought John did a great job maneuvering around the draft and just taking really good players. You know, from a fantasy perspective.

I mean, now he's complicating things for fantasy owners, right? bringing in Zach Charvone and even Kenny McIntosh. Like I, you know, I called John or I was texting with him, you know, late in the draft when Kenny McIntosh was still on the board. And I said, man, for whatever it's worth. Like he was our top rated running back for the senior bowl this year ahead of Zach Charbonnet. Kenny was our one and Charbonnet was our two.

So for him to be there in the seventh round and really get dinged off a 40 time. He ran whatever it was, low four, six is. And, you know, Pro Day wouldn't great. but you put on the tape. I mean, that's, to me, that is a scout that's all the combine and pro day as four is to recheck your eyes and make sure you weren't seeing something wrong on tape. And you go back and look at Kenny stuffed after ProDay and Combine. Dude, he's an explosive football player.

So now they've got three really young ones, you know, to keep happy back there. And, you know, Kenny's stuff in the past game at Georgia was incredible, too. I saw some of the numbers. Maybe you put them out. But what he did as a runner and as a receiver, there was only like one or two guys in college football over the last handful of years that have put up the numbers. that Kenny did last year for Georgia. So I really like what Seattle did. Of course, I liked what the Colts did too. I mean, not maybe from a fantasy standpoint, but just from an overall, from an

overall draft perspective, taking really high-end athletes and getting them at value, guys that, you know, slid a little bit that we thought would have went earlier. I thought, I thought, I thought Chris Ballard did a great job. That's a, that's a great note that you reached out to your old buddy about McIntosh when he was still on the board. I was going to bring him because, yeah, what did you say in this article? You said he was your highest-graded senior running back pre-combine, of course, ahead of Zach Charbonnet. And I have to say pre-combine, I felt similarly.

I had him above Charbonnet. My model loved him. It said he was a really high-end pass-catching running back, and then underrated as a runner, really good miss tackles force per attempt. And then he was elite by yards per route run, depth adjusted yards per target over expectation, yards after contact per reception, a bunch of different things like that. And then the combine comes in and the pro day comes in. It was a, it was like a bottom one percentile weight adjusted three cones, something like that. So it was,

it was really bad on multiple levels. And I'm sort of like, I think, I think athleticism is overrated. I know we'll butt heads on that except at the polar extremes. And then so the athleticism score I gave him is what I define as a death now score where it's like as high as my model was pre-combine. It's enough to where, okay, I could see day three, but it's, or late day three, but still, like, you know, I'm rooting for this guy. I think he could be a lot more than what his draft capital implies. And on this last podcast, we talked about the importance of football character. And this guy's football character, I don't know.

I think is off the charts because when, when Pete Carroll called him, he was in hysteric tears. He was, I promise, I'm, you know, I'm going to make this worth your while. I'm going to prove to the world. I should have went four rounds earlier. He had a call with the media. It was the same thing. Couldn't stop crying. It was like happy tears.

He was just so happy to be part of a team. So, yeah, what do you think is going to happen in year one? I'm with you that whatever the expectations are, he's going to beat them out. Yeah, to me, football character is paramount. I don't want to go. I mean, I can talk for hours, why I think that's, you know, how important that is, especially when you're talking about guys hitting their ceilings and realizing their potential. And again, Kenny's just a good football player, man.

I heard those interviews as well. I mean, he was talking about being from South Florida and, you know, that's all they have down there. And it turns, man, I've been going into Miami for 25 years, scout players. And it is. I mean, it matters to those guys. Football really matters to Kenny McIntosh. And again, I was afraid we weren't going to get him at the senior ball. I thought he's going to be one of those guys that, you know, maybe thought he didn't, you know, didn't need it.

I thought he's going to be a first or second round draft pick. And we're trying to change that perception and these guys' mindset because we feel like everyone. To me, the higher guys are the ones that have more to gain out of the Senior Bowl because the money that's attached to those slots. But back to Kenny, man, not just the receiving and the running, if you go back to Senior Bowl week and watch the one-on-one pass pro stuff, he was far and away the best running back we had down here in Paspro. And that's usually the one thing that keeps running backs off the field early in the careers is just the running back coach who's doing all the substitutions on game day, like doesn't trust. that guy in Passpro to get the, you know, doesn't want to get the quarterback killed. So that's where you see a lot of running vests come into.

They're basically special teams players or they'll get them out there on run downs. Kenny is so far ahead in terms of pass pro that I can see him having a role really early. And you know they want to run the football. And I follow the Seahawks probably closer than anyone because, again, that's my last team. But there was a stretch there, middle season, late to season where they had like Travis Homer and DJ. DJ Dallas. I mean,

they were running with like their third, fourth, fifth running backs. I mean, so the guys get hurt. You know, it's just the nature

of the position. There's going to be attrition. So I could see a point during the year where, where maybe for fantasy owners, maybe not like right out of the gate. But Kenny McIntosh could have been a really valuable guy

because he's a true three down guy. They can split out. All you got to do is Google his highlights from last year. I mean, a bunch of stuff was out of the slot. And him aligned wide. So you can,

you can move around in the past game. He's good and pass pro. He can run it. He's explosive. so I'm with you with all your with all the testing stuff and all the models like it doesn't all drive so there's there's going to be a little bit of a roll the dice element to it but like from a football perspective from like John Schneider's perspective man in the seventh round are you kidding me and now you got a guy with a chip on his shoulder who's kind of pissed off at the world that he went

the seventh round and he thought he's going to go round two or three that's a dangerous combination man you get you get a really talented guy that's pissed off look out look out yeah I just with regard to the athleticism stuff. So on our last show, we talked about how important it is for the tight end position. And you really see that just, you know, Jimmy Graham, Robert Tunyan, Chargers, all-time tight-end. Why can I think of his name? Antonio Gates.

Antonio Gates. Thank you. You know, just a little bit more than just, you know, athletic potential. And they became two of the all-time grades. With the running back position, you do see a few more. outliers in this like sub 20th percentile athleticism range. Not a lot, but it's, it's Aaron Foster. It's Brian Westbrook. It's a lot of running backs who are better past catchers than runners. So maybe that would be the glimmer of hope for McIntosh there. Maybe you can be like a Brian

Westbrook style outlier. But yeah, certainly, you know, round seven draft capital. It's a long shot. But, but I like to see that this is a player, you and I are both united on. And who knows, maybe you're one, he can be served that, that Travis Homer role. I do want to stay with the, the Seahawks a little bit, uh, just your background there and also because I don't know, I'm, I'm like a big John Schneider fan. His, his 2012 draft belongs in the Louvre, Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson. Last year, I think he far and away won the draft. Two starting tackles, a starting edge, a starting running back, two starting cornerbacks. the one he took in round five went to the Pro Bowl.

So I'm curious about some of these very fantasy relevant picks. Do you have any insights onto what he was thinking with Zach Charbonnet? I'll be honest, I wasn't the biggest Zach Charbonnet fan. And I don't know that he's, I don't think he's a better runner than Kenneth Walker. Personally, I kind of saw this as the only had two running backs in the depth chart. And Pete Carroll loves his running backs and his running backs often get injured. So he viewed this as a knee. Do you have any insights here?

Yeah, we like Sharpernick. Like I said, he was our second rated senior runner. We didn't get him to commit to the game, which I always, you know, that's always a loss for us, man. That never sits well with me that we can't get guys to come. And especially we had a nice run through the UCLA running back room. We had like Joshua Kelly and, but I think we had three straight UCLA runners. But no, I like his running style, man.

I've watched him since he was at Michigan, which is my alma mater. so I've seen this guy play a lot. He's got really good vision. He runs downhill. He's kind of sneaky, slippery. He doesn't look real slippery, but he just, the more you watch him, you're like, man, how do you get through there? And then he runs with, he's the type of runner Seattle wants.

And that's some people might have thought that was a little bit of a reach. But, you know, he's that downhill, like makes you tackle him type of runner that that's who they want to be. That's their identity. That's who they've wanted to be since they had March on. They went, you know, Chris Carson became that. guy he wasn't that guy in college like chris adopted that mindset and really became that type of bangor that they want um so sharp an he just fits them man and and again when they can't run the football

if you lose kenneth walker and you can't run it to that level i mean you're kind of losing who you want to be and i think they were protecting the identity a little bit of their football team and then obviously and of course they didn't see kenny mackintosh making it in seventh round so then it's now you just add another really talented guys and now they have three now you feel really good about making it through a 17-game schedule, and you can, you can hand it to a guy that can legitimately be an NFL starting level player, maybe not to the level of Ken Walker. Maybe there's a little bit of a drop with each guy, but, I mean, still those guys. I thought McIntosh and Sharpenny were both NFL starters.

We had him great as an NFL star. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely killed this draft also when you add in Jackson Smith and Jigba, who, you know, we talked about this on the last show, but like from a fantasy perspective, just looking at is like fantasy and analytics profile in college. I stick to the analytics because I'm good at analytics. I'm not a great, you know, film grinder.

But just this analytics profile to me screamed a lead. It screamed like almost like drafting Keenan Allen in 2013, a guy who I think if you went to like two dozen other landing spots could have caught 100 balls this year. This landing spot in the short term, I don't know that it's great. You got D.K. Metcalfe, you got Tyler Lockett. you got a head coach who runs 12 personnel at a typically high rate. Shane Waldron's there. He ran 11 a lot with the Rams.

He was asked about this. He kind of said, no, I don't think we're going to mix things up too much. We want him to maximize our three wide receiver plays when we do have three wide receivers on the field. So do you have any insights here on what went in? Do you think,

you know, maybe they were just shocked. This guy fell to them. Do you think maybe, you know, we could see a big jump in, in 11 personnel? Any general thoughts on Jackson Smith and Jigman in the short and long term? Yeah, they were probably a little surprised that he was there and they took the best player on their board.

I felt like he was the best receiver in the draft. I kind of like that Keenan Allen comp, you know, and you talk about all-time four testers. Keenan was like 473. I don't even think he was in the four-sixes is when I was in Kansas City at the time. I want to say on our card was like a four-seven time on Keenan Allen. But yeah, Smith and Jigba, they've kind of missed that. in Seattle since Doug Baldwin left. They haven't really had like a dynamic slot or a really productive slot.

Like I wouldn't describe Smith and Jigba as dynamic. He's just really good. He's a really polished player. His catch skills are off the charts. I mean, when you just watch like actual hand placement on the ball on some like really difficult throws in the slot, like, you know, stuff below waist level or, you know, go back to that Rose Bowl game a couple years ago, there's some older over the shoulder stuff with like hand placement that a lot of guys catches some guys guys make the catch but it

he just makes everything look easy he's just a really natural easy catcher of the football so he just gives them a different element i mean they're going to be different they're going to look different um they can be a lot more diverse now on offense um i still think they always want to be that that run first football team don't get me wrong i think that's who p wants to be um but now they will be able to give you a lot of a lot more different looks with personnel and I think Smith and Jigma can play Z. I think you can move him outside. I don't think he's just a slot.

I think that's not fair to him. I think he's got more versatility than that. So just gives a lot more depth, gives him a guy that can get on the field year one. I mean, again, he's ready to go. I mean, this guy's, he's not going to take any development. He is a really well-drilled player. So where they got him at 20 or whatever? I mean, that's, to me, that was another home run pick.

Maybe not for fantasy guys like you outlined, but for the Seattle Seahawks, that was a home run pick. Yeah, for sure. Keenan Allen was a 4-5-8, but Cooper Cup was four-sixes, West Welker, four-sixes, Anquam Bolden, four-sevins. I mean, late career Larry Fitz in the slot was probably down there as well. Since you bring up Bolden, I was his group leader at the combine that year. And like I had to announce the guys is they basically the group leaders at the common,

like shepherd the guys through the week. I think I had like 30-some wideouts and 10 quarterbacks or whatever. But I told all the guys before they ran, I'm like, guys do not. come and ask me what you ran in the 40. It's like when we're done with the whole workout after the shuttles are done, then come find me. You know,

I'd be happy to tell you. And I'll never forget the look on Anquan's face when I had to tell him he ran 4-7-6. I mean, it was like 4-7-6 or 476-477. And just the blank look, I'll never forget that look on his face. And then the next year he was the only rookie that made the Pro Bowl that next year.

So you talk about outliers, Anquon Bolden's one of the all-time outliers. That's amazing. Yeah, how does that happen? How do you have that and just be so good in spite of that? Is it just the route running, the craft? Yeah, I would say this. Like, they're not identical players by any stretch, but like, you know, I was with Wes Welker

in New England, and Wes was a 4-7 as well. We had a 4-70 time on Wes's card. It's probably why he went undrafted. You know, I think he had eight, seven or eight punt return touchdowns of Texas Tech and still went undrafted, which is kind of crazy. but they hit top speed really fast, both of those guys. I mean, their acceleration off the line and inner routes was, we just talk about play tempo.

Like, both of those guys, play tempo was good to very good on an NFL scale. And then at the top of the route, the craftiness and the strength and the power and the toughness. I mean, they really, they're different body types, but they were really similar players. And I will say this too, one of the things that Anguon-Bone, that always sticks out in my head, people forget he was a converted quarterback, in Florida State. And so usually when you do, you know, in your mind,

you see the guys play quarterback before you sit down to evaluate him. Like, I wonder how tough this guy is going to be. And Anquam Bolden ranks in the top five blocking wide receivers I've ever done coming out of college. I mean, if you just watch like a blocking cut up of Anquon's Florida State stuff, it would be a fun watch because he absolutely murdered people in there. So it's a really fun player, man. But that was it.

I mean, their acceleration off the line of scrimmage and the route tempo. I mean, top end speed wasn't there, but that stuff was really, really good. It pisses me off. He's one of those guys where every draft class, there's at least one wide receiver who gets comp to Anquam Bolden, and he's just so one of one. Yeah, just stop. Stop. Stop. Yeah, so I was just saying with Jackson, Smith, and Jigba, you know, the 40 wasn't really there, but you can say that for a lot of slot wide receivers who aren't T.

T.Y. Hilton or Tyler Lockett. did have the really good three cone, the really elite short shuttle. But the glass half full from a short-term fantasy perspective is sure he's competing for targets alongside D.K. Metcalfe and Tyler Lockett. But, I mean, in college, he was competing for targets against Garrett Wilson and Chris Olive, and he outproduced them. I don't know. Any final thoughts on this before we move on to another question?

No, man, nothing much to add. although, I mean, I think you can slide. He's going to be out there. I mean, this guy's ready to go. So whenever they're, whenever they're in three wads or four wads, I mean, this guy's, and again, he's crafty enough. Part of, part of young receivers is just that maturity, the football smarts, and getting a quarterback on board of them and trusting them.

I don't see any sort of trust issues between Gino and Smith and Jigba after watching the tape. I mean, certainly seems like a guy that's going to be a security blanket pretty early in his career. Yeah. I also watched a podcast with you really early into the off season where you talked about you didn't expect Seattle to make a move for a quarterback. You expected them to re-sign Gino Smith because, I mean, he played awesome last year. He basically, I've been saying, he like freaky Fridayed with Russell Wilson. He like swap bodies or something. Do you have any additional insights on that and sort of what? what Pete Carroll expects from him this year?

Well, I'm sure they expect him to continue in his development. I mean, last year was, let's think about it. Last August, he was in a battle with Drew Locke. I mean, there was, there was even going into the very first game of the opening game, there was some thought in the building that it might be Drew Locke's job. So, you know, how does that affect, you know, he hasn't had a full off season as the guy. So now he's coming up for Pro Bowl. he got paid.

This is his football team now. So there's just a confidence level that I think all of us, no matter what we do for a living, if you do your job with confidence, you're usually more effective. And now Gino's got a full offseason of being confident, being the guy, like coordinating all these passing sessions with the skill guys.

You know, there's no doubt in their minds. There's no doubt in the team main spines that Gino is the guy. And I think that's going to manifest itself positively. I think if you're the Seahawks, why would you have just like felt like you hit on you know, it was a fluky thing. I mean, it's hard to be a fluke over 17 games, in my opinion. And so why would Seattle went in a different direction?

Now, if they were staring at Anthony Richardson, that might have been a tough call because I know there was some love for Anthony up there. I thought, I mean, I think you can hit a, that would have been a home run pick. I mean, you really truly have a chance to hit on a unique player with Anthony Richardson. But once the Colts took him, I knew they were going. I knew they were probably going Witherspoon. But no, I think, I know they expect a big year for.

you know, and there's no reason not to think he won't be even better than he was last year. Yeah, you mentioned confidence. I always wonder how that plays it. It's another one of those hidden factors I can't account for, you know, football character, medicals, things like that. And with Gino in particular, I come from New Jersey, New York, and, you know, the media was ruthless from day one, from, you know, as soon as he picked them ruthless on Gino Smith. And then he had a teammate break his jaw and he just, you know, reveled in obscurity as like a backup on a number of different teams. And then it seems like, I don't know, he got his swagger back. You know, he's hilarious in these interviews, has some great quotes. It seems to have won over

the locker room. I think a similar thing might have happened with Jared Gough, or at least, you know, that's the word on the street that Detroit really put in a lot of time, energy, and effort into sort of building back his confidence. And you have any insights there on what that means to a player or any examples of a player who, you know, lost the confidence, came back. Yeah, that's a really good, it's a really good point on the Jets thing because I think we're seeing it right now is Zach Wilson, what he's going through. You know, I mean, gosh, we've already, we've already buried this guy, you know, like that's, that's a really tough market. So, I mean, for Gino, and it's a lot, like you said, he toiled away for a lot of years. It's a grown man now.

Like, like, a lot of these guys coming out of college aren't fully mature grown men yet. There's a lot of things they need to work through. I mean, Gino's weathered the storm. And it's not just the confidence piece and those guys building him back up. And I know they've done a good job of that. I mean, they've got really good resources in that culture of people to lean on and build guys up. Some great, great leadership in that, in that program. But also you got to think about just, you brought out Shane Waldron's name earlier.

Now it's year two of Shane. I mean, now he's in an offense where, you know, he's like Shane knows his strengths and he knows, you know, how Shane calls plays. And like that, some of that stuff gets overlooked now, too. Like they've been through a whole season full of situations. And Shane knows where, you know, what plays to call when, you know, for Gene. and where he feels comfortable. So all those things, man. I mean, that's why it's easy to get bullish on Seattle right now

just because you expect if Gino makes another, even if it's probably not as significant a jump as last year, but if he makes another incremental jump, and you add in all these young players, last year's draft class, this year's draft class, those guys take a jump. I mean, this is dangerous football team, you know, especially we're talking in a division

with a 49ers team that's really unsettled a quarterback right now. I saw that they're the Vegas favorite. for most wins in the NFC right now. And we don't, we don't even really know it's going to be playing quarterback for them. So again, I'm waving the pom-poms for my former team, but it's easy to get excited about the Seahawks. Yeah. Hey, I completely agree with you.

I think the answer I was expecting from you from that question, or a reference, you know, there's the phrase, you give a dog a bad name. You might as well put him down, right? Zach Wilson, like, how do you come back from this? But like the shining example of, you know, overcoming adversity and get, getting better is Jalen Hertz. And I've heard you talk about this a lot. You know, the player who you saw at the senior bowl versus what he's become now and the level of difficulty and adversities he's had to overcome. Yeah. Yeah. Just, I mean, going back to the whole thing at Bama,

I mean, the guy was 26 and two as a starter and got bench, lost his job. So to Tui, I mean, those things, I mean, you can learn from those experiences. And a lot of these young quarterbacks never face adversity. They get to the NFL. They've been the guy since Pop Warner, right? I mean, every team they've been on, they've been better. They go through college, smooth sailing. I mean, they go to a program, you know, a blue blood program in Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson. They do nothing but win.

So then they get to the NFL and they get smacked with some adversity and a lot of them real for a little bit. You know, they get staggered and they have trouble finding their footing again where, you know, Jalen got that in college. So nothing was going to deter him once he got to the pros. That's one of the things I liked about Jailen. going in. Now, I would never sit here and try to pretend like I thought he would have the season he had last year. I thought he could be a starter. I kind of compared him to DAC. When he was here at the senior ball, I thought he could have a DAC like career. And now he's, I mean, he's completely taken off. So I'm not, I'm not trying to say that.

But, I mean, you love where Jaylon would come from and that he'd already weathered the storm in his life. So yeah, it's a really cool piece. I know going back to Seattle and what we did in scouting, we always wanted to find guys that have been through adversity. That was like the first question I asked whenever I sat down with a player was, you know, give me an example of something you've had to fight through and in how you got to this point. And they still do that. I mean, the whole grit, the whole grit. I mean, I feel like that word's overused now. I feel like Seattle kind of started using the gritty model. And, but that's a, that's like a core foundational piece for what they look for guys that have overcome adversity and have shown that grit.

Yeah, I love listening to a podcast with Pete Carroll, such a smart guy who thinks deeply that all these things. He's always referencing various TED talks. He has that a, uh, that the podcast with Steve Kerr, really, really deep thinker who, you know, thinks, uh, you know, about about, I don't know, just a deep thinker. Anyway, yeah, I want to stick with, uh, I want to stick with quarterbacks here. Uh, maybe we'll talk about a player who I think, uh, got invited to the senior bowl and maybe saw his draft stock plummet, uh, for not going. Uh, I haven't heard you talk. about him at all. I'd like to hear what you thought about the player, Will Levis. Yeah. So with the end, I think it was a legit injury, right? It broke our streak of seven

straight years of the first round quarterback. So that hurt. That, that, that sucked. Thought we had a chance there with Hendon maybe. But no, but I think, you know, in Will's case, he has an agent who I'm very close to, consider him a real friend. I've known him for a long, long time. I've known him for a long, long time. And I do think it was the foot injury that kept him out of coming to Mobile. I think he would have been here if it weren't for the foot. I just don't think he felt like he could put his best foot forward. I'm not trying to sound corny. But no, so it was a tough, tough eval for him. The selling points to Will, like when I talked to Will and his dad and his representatives was like, this game was the perfect showcase for Will Levis. I mean, he's a lot,

what happens is a lot of these GMs don't get out to many games in the fall, you're right? Like they're traveling on the weekends with their team. And if they're playing on the road at the, you know, at the Falcons, like they'll go see a Georgia tech game or get up to Athens and see Georgia play. They don't get out to a ton of games.

There's a bunch of GMs and decision makers that probably didn't see Will Levis play. So like regardless of position, if you have an overwhelming fiscal trait, whether that size like DeWan Jones from Ohio State, the right tackle this year, if you're 6'9, 380 with a, you know, a 7-5 wingspan. Like, that's different when you see it for yourself.

That's different than seeing it on tape. When you've got a really fast player like Terry McLaurin a few years ago when he was down here, when you see like a, or Tariq Wulin even, you know, the last year was our fastest guy in this senior ball history. When you see a 4-2 guy running in person and whizz by you on the sidelines, like you almost, you feel a little more with Will Levis, man, he's a big strapped up, good-looking guy that can hum the football. I had a chance to see him at the Manning Camp last summer

and went up to Lexington in August. Coach Jupes was nice enough to let me talk to the guys up there. He's impressive throwing it, man. Like the pro day workout was great. You know, and then down here you're throwing one on ones. You're throwing seven on sevens. There is really vanilla coverage looks. There's no blitzing.

Like it really set up perfectly for not just Will, but all quarterbacks should be able to come down here and have a good week when you have the tools that Will has. Now, the evaluation was tricky, right? I mean, lost coordinators from his junior to a senior year, lost some personnel on offense. Not that it was all bad. I mean, he had some good players. Chris Rodriguez, his running back is a really good player.

But he just didn't have the same year. I mean, the tape just wasn't, you expected a little more of a jump this year and there was almost a little bit of a regression. So, you know, like you said, the hard part, if you're not in it, if you're not with a team, and you don't get to sit with Will and watch tape with them and, like, have him explain, like what he saw and why he made certain decisions or, you know, the injury part, he was banged up. You know, I know that he was banged up. So like to what degree? Without knowing that stuff, it's really hard to be critical of Will, but I certainly think that he's got starter level ability.

But just like most quarterbacks, like what situation is he going to and who's going to, you know, Gino is a perfect example. Gino didn't go to a great situation with the Jets. They didn't provide him with what he needed to succeed. And hopefully Will has that in Tennessee. We'll see. I certainly think physically he has all the stuff, and that's why everyone was talking about him as a potential top 10 pick. But yeah, I mean, going back to our game, do I think he could have helped himself if he were healthy?

Yes, do I think you would have been here? Yeah, I think he would have been here. But I just hope he ended up in the right spot. I hope Tennessee is the right spot for him. Yeah, so do I. You mentioned the importance of watching tape with these coaches explaining their mistakes or what went into this thinking on this, Aaron, throw, something along those lines.

And Tennessee actually did reference that a few times in their press conference. They went through that process with Will and they felt really good about the player after hearing his explanation for what went into those plays. So next question is more of a general broad bucket. Do you have any favorite landing spots from a fantasy perspective? Any sort of like ideal fits? Like, oh, of course this guy goes here. Of course, Devin A-Chane goes to the perfect outside zone running scheme or that's stacked with speed or anything along those lines.

Oh, I like Jaden Reed in Green Bay. You know, you've got two outside guys with Watson and dubs. And I think from a fantasy perspective, I mean, position versatility matters because, you know, when injuries happen, can you move guys around? I think Jaden can do that, at least from a skill set standpoint, a tool standpoint. Now, from the neck up, I don't know that part. I don't know how it's hard, man. It's hard going in and learning entire offense and learning three different positions as a rookie at wide receiver it is. But if he can grasp that, now, if Dobs goes down or Watson goes down,

I mean, he's fast enough to move outside and plays big enough to move outside. So he could be on the field a ton. He could get a ton of targets. And again, going into a new offense where everyone's kind of proven themselves with Jordan Love, I think from a fantasy standpoint, he's got a real, he's got a real opportunity. As do their two young tight ends, I think those two tight ends, Musgrave and Kraft will get on the field. I don't know.

That's a good question. I like the Zay Flowers fit in Baltimore. I think he gives them a dimension that maybe they haven't had in terms of like Hollywood Brown, James Prochet, those guys have been speedsters. Those guys can roll, but they're more like undersized outside guys

where Zays gives you a little more, a little more wiggle and ability to get open in the slot and so more of a slot playmaker. They haven't really had that guy. You know, basically everything down the middle of the field is Andrews and Isaiah likely. So it gives them like a little change of pace from the, from a Mark Andrews or Isaiah likely.

So that's kind of a cool fit as well. Final two questions. Any sophomore players we should be keeping an eye on? You said, you already mentioned Desmond Ritter. Ryan Robinson's a good one, man. I mean, think about that. The guy got shot last year. and went on to have some 100-yard games.

I mean, that's, that's pretty crazy. And I would expect them to really lean into the run game as they developed Sam Howell, so I could see them being a really run-heavy football team. That's a good one, man. Sophomores, like, trying to think of who's in that class, guys that could really break out. Throw some names. If you could throw some names at me in that sophomore class,

I'd be happy to run through some with you. Well, Drake, London, Garrett Wilson, Chris Olavie, James and Williams, Jehan Dotson, Traylon Burks. I feel like all those guys are pretty obvious. Christian Watson, I mean, another obvious guy. Wondale Robinson, maybe John Mechie, Taekwine. There is a good one, man, Metchy. I liked Metchie a lot when he was coming out.

Again, rookie quarterback. So that's always from a fantasy standpoint. That's a little tricky, right? So, you know, CJ's a young guy. But I think Damien Pierce, if he doesn't get hurt last. year I missed those last four games. He rushes for 13,400 yards. He is a bell cow, and I know they're going to want to ride him. He's our senior bowl rookie of the year, too. He'll be back down here in Mobile in about a month for our Hall of Fame induction.

But Metchy's a guy I really like, man. In terms of that class, I like Metchie. I like Metchie more than a lot of guys that got drafted above him last year. And obviously went through the did he have lymphoma or leukemia? You know, he's getting through that. And talking to the Texans. guys. I mean, he's gotten through. He's got a clean bill of health. But no one really knows. We don't know what that did do him physically. But man, the football player, I saw him play a ton of football at Tuscaloosa. He's quick. He's really crafty. He's strong. Super competitive, like, ultra tough and competitive. That's a guy to keep an eye on because they let go of Brandon Cooks.

You know, they got Nico Collins outside. Like, METCH could be a guy there. I mean, he could be a really high volume target guy because he's a little bit, I think he's got a little more juice than Smith and Jigba. But there's some similarities to Smith and Jigba. And that's what, you know, that's C.J. Straught's been used to throw into that guy. So I think there's some, I think there's some similarities there. And then also Tank Dell, I mean, taking it to the rookie thing, it just popped in my head that, you know, C.J. and Tank Dell, I guess, did a bunch of work leading up to the draft this year. So maybe there's some like instant chemistry there between those two guys. I know C. kind of lobbied the Texans to take tank.

So those two guys could, those two slot guys, tank and Metchi can play outside as well. He can play Z, but those guys could be some fantasy, a couple of those guys could be fantasy sleepers. All right. I have one last question for you. I don't think any of my listeners really care about it, but it's something I care about. I wanted to ask you about Brand Cuthy. So my model loved Dalton Kincaid, but I saw something I personally viewed as a red flag,

And that was just that Cuthy, the other tight end there, outproduced him in 2021. And then was also outproducing him last year prior to his injury. Obviously, Kincade, you know, was so impressive without him that it doesn't really matter all that much. But still, like, I'm intrigued, you know, what would have happened to Kincade if Kuthe stayed healthy? And typically it's rare to see, you know, a tight end who was the team's most productive tight end, only one year. become like a fantasy juggernaut, like we're expecting Kincaid to be. So I guess my question is, will Cuthy be at the senior bowl next year? Is he someone you think the NFL will really like?

I mean, my model does, does really like him. So what can you tell me about Brand Cuthy? Yeah. First of all, I got to learn how to pronounce his name. I don't know if it's Cuthy or Keithy. I thought it was Keithy. Now you're getting me all conflict. Oh, I don't. I, of course, I don't know. But no, he was on the radar this year for sure. And we like Cincade. Kincaid was our highest grade at tight end. We had Musgrave right below him. But so, no, this is taking nothing away from Dalton. I think the guy's going to be a really good player.

But Keithy, for our scout that went and scouted, one of our guy that did kind of Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, that part of the country for us is a 20-year NFL scout, and he went to the Kentucky Florida game, or was it Utah? Yeah, it was Utah. Yeah, of course, Frank Keith plays for Utah. The Utah Florida game in Gainesville, and he was texting me from the game

and I asked him how are the two tight ends doing and he said he liked Keithy more than Kincaid. So, I mean, if that, and that's just one game exposure. He made a couple really nice plays down the seam in that game. Obviously, the injury and how he comes back from that, remains to be seen. But yeah, man, he's been on the radar for a couple of years now here at the Senior Bowl

and if he gets back to the level he was at, yeah, I could totally see him here next year. He's a good player. awesome all right thank you so much jim for for making the time really appreciate it uh we got to do this again next year yeah absolutely scott thanks for having me on and uh yeah i look forward to a you you get me going on the fantasy man i we do a we do a senior bowl fantasy league now i've never done that i've never done that before so now you i always uh follow along on your stuff in the summertime so i have a better draft so i appreciate appreciate all you're doing that's

awesome. Wait till you find out about Debbie leagues or Dynasty leagues. Then you're going to be an addict, I think, and also probably the greatest Debbie or Dynasty player of all time. Well, have a great summer, man. Look forward to connecting once we get into the season next year.

Sounds good. Thanks for tuning into this edition of the Fantasy Points podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform and come join the roster at FantasyPoints.com.