Fantasy Football Daily - Champ/Chump of the Week, Fraud Contenders + BENCH JOE FLACCO | NFL First Read

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down Champ/Chump of the Week, Fraud Contenders + BENCHING JOE FLACCO. Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Check out The Waiver Wire - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/the-waiver-wire-week-5#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Marino of lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the C-O-O of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. Let's get after it. Week 10, Joe, it's in the books, man. We're here somewhere in the ether, Caleb Williams has taken another unnecessary sack. But sir, how are you today? Wow. Caleb Williams strays right off the bat. We even have Caleb Williams queued up to talk about later on. And Brett Whitefield said, first order of business. Let me throw this guy under the buzz.

Let him catch a little stray here to get things started. This is going to be fun. This is, I mean, obviously you're feeling some type of way. Lions win seven in a row and overcome some weirdness. We'll get to that later on as well. But I'm doing good. Excited to be here, week 10. It feels weird that we're like in the double digits for weeks.

But here we are, man. It's, it's heating up. All right. Week 10 champs and chumps, Joe, the new segment we're doing here. Why don't you start us off? Let's get your champ of the week. Oh, the champ of the week, huh? All right.

All right. All right. All right. All right. My champ of the week. And you and I had a little conversation before the show about trying not to make it too homerish, right? Okay.

But if, but if the. the shoe fits, if the shoe fits, you got to roll with it. Because I'd love to talk to you about Jamar Chase, but man, they lost a football game. I thought that was one heck of a performance. I was really impressed with that. Even Joe Burrow playing great. Doesn't matter.

I'm going with Taryn Johnson. The guy just deserves flowers, right? And if there ever was a time to highlight Taryn Johnson, it's right now. The bills beat the Colts, fifth win in a row, 30 to 20 win. And really, come on, they scored a touchdown with eight seconds. left. That was a garbage touchdown. Should have been a three score win. Yeah. But Taryn Johnson, the story of the game for the bills was big plays on defense, man, tons of big plays. And Taryn Johnson right in the heat of all of it on the first play of the game.

The first defensive snap of the game for the bills, a little pick six, taking the ball away, scoring a touchdown, really good blocks from Rassul Douglas and DeMar Hamlin to get him into the end zone. But Taryn Johnson executing on a high level, it's one of those plays where you watch it and you think, man, what's Joe Flacco doing here? Why is he, does he not see Taryn Johnson? Well, that's because Taryn Johnson's great at what he does and was able to not buzz down on a tight end when he thought he was going to. He stays put, reads the backfield, picks off the pass. I think Joe Flacco thought he had a nice wide open completion on a post route.

And nope, he doesn't. He has a pick six. Then he goes on and has a sack later in the game. Beautiful pressure look. They scheme him up to go one on one against Jonathan Taylor off the edge. and TJ wins with speed to power over JT. He's able to get a little separation, finish the sack there. At two run stuffs, that's the thing about Taryn Johnson that gets lost in the conversation is he's basically a linebacker for the pills as well.

He legit plays on the second level. He fits the run so well. He had two big run stuff in the game, playing from the weak side, filling windows, taking on contact on the strong side. And he should have had a fumble recovery as well, AJ Finesse. that kind of knocked it away from him. But point being, Taryn Johnson, the respect, the flowers, he deserves it all. And he's a big reason why the bills were able to get their fifth win in a row against the Colts on Sunday.

Joe, what do you make of him giving up that touchdown on the red zone? Not a big deal to you? It's a good play fake. You know what I mean? A little, good little play fake. You know what I mean? I'm just teasing. No, I love Taryn Johnson.

Joe, last week when I said, hey, we should we should fit in doing our midseason all pro teams. Yeah. I had in mind and the reason I wanted to do that was Taryn Johnson because I want him on my all pro team, Joe. So when we do this on Thursday, which I'm thinking is the show on Thursday, you know, spoiler alert, I'm going to have Taryn Johnson on my all pro team, midseason all pro team here. So. Bro, I feel you and I have had conversations in the past about defending play action and whether you play the run first, the past first. What do you want Taryn to Johnson to do in a

situation? Don't you feel like his primary responsibility there's a fit to run? And then he kind of has to recover. Like, yeah, he gave up a touchdown, but it's like, I don't though man it's a good play fake and you like him to be there but he's got to defend the run first right in that situation coverage in the red zone is hard for that oh yeah yeah ball was snapped from what the two yard line yeah the two yeah he's he's also if I'm not mistaken he's the force defender on that play yeah it's an impossible situation to be in yeah it does really stink I I'm literally watching the play right now as we're talking I think he probably takes one too many steps towards Flacco on that play fake when running back's clearly not getting the handoff right it's

gone he's gone he's vacated to the flat I don't know it's not a big deal to me though you know he's he's he like you said he wears a ton of hats in that defense he's one of their best run defenders um you know he's doing what he thinks is best I don't know that's tough that's a tough one if it's a running back too you don't expect the running back to be the primary on a freaking on a red zone pass concept but it happens sometimes so Who caught that? Was it a 31? Tray Serum?

No, I think it was Goodson, right? Goodson, yeah. All right, I'm going to throw my champ out there. You already mentioned him, though, Joe, and that was Jamar Chase. Jamar Chase had, gosh, probably the most dominant wide receiver performance. I can remember since, like, Megatron. Vintage Megatron game, where it just was like everything that they did with Chase worked. whether it was a short route that turned into 50 yards or a bomb he just did it all he put that team on his back and i know

they did lose so that's you didn't want to give them the champ because they lost but without chase they don't even come close bro that game i mean he had how many like just jaw dropper plays did he have in that game five six where you're just like that doesn't happen people don't do that stuff um the catch and run on the dig route the like little scramble where borough climbs the pocket how i i i i You could do it, you know, I'm not still image guy, but if you wanted to be still image guy and take a still at the moment Chase catches that pass and then realize he scores a touchdown on that play, it's a mind bender.

You're, it's completely wild. So Chase, Chase was awesome. It feels like forever ago, though. That game was on Thursday night. Yeah. It almost doesn't feel like it was this week.

Well, we're recording on Tuesday morning. It was forever ago. Maybe they should go to him on that two-point conversion. What do you think? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. I've been very critical as Zach Taylor and his Mickey Mouse offense without T. Higgins.

He must listen to the pod, Joe, because I shot big time crap at him this week on every show I'm on, too, not just this one. On every serious XM show, whatever it was, I was talking mad smack about Zach Taylor, and then he comes out here and makes Jamar chase the actual focal point of the offense for once. Thank God. You see what happens, though. Maybe a little bit too late, though, for. for Jamar and the Bengals. But yeah, that's my guy. All right. I like to pick. I mean, it's hard.

I wanted to, you could tell in my heart I wanted to pick Jamar Chase, but I'm a little bit like the NFL where it's like my player of the week honors have to go to people winning, you know? So that's my little thing there. Oh, wait, is that a thing? Is that actually a thing? Yeah, I don't think, have they ever given AFC or NFC player of the week,

offense defense defense defense team, so a player that loses? I don't, I don't think it's ever happened. I've never noticed. Yeah. Like, I've never paid attention enough to notice. So, yeah. All right, I got a chump. And if you know anything about me, Brett Whitefield, I like to take a little creative liberty when we have some, you know, what do you call this? A segment, right, a plan segment. I like to stretch it a little bit. So do I have one chump of the week?

No, I have two. And what I'm going to boil this down to is, uh, is a little quote here from Josh Allen. He likes to say, all rookies are stupid rookies, right? And they do, man. Rookies cost they, I think Bill Belichick used to say for every rookie you start, it costs you one win, right? Something along those lines. Wow. And so let's highlight some chump rookies this week. You know, after you think Malachi Corley is the guy this rookie season to drop the ball before he scores a touchdown, how about Tyrone Tracy?

You know, we're all up on Sunday morning watching football in Germany. We get an overtime game between the Panthers and Giants. Tyrone Tracy's second fumble of the game, the first snap. of overtime gives a ball back to the Carolina Panthers. And of course, Eddie Pinnero makes a field goal and the Giants lose. But then Johnny Newton says, hold my beer, hold my beer with his neutral zone and fraction there for the Washington commanders fourth and one at the 49. You either get a stop if Pittsburgh goes for it or they bluff, right?

They're just trying to get you to jump off sides. And they're going to punch you the ball and you only need a field goal. It's a tight situation, but you only need a field. field goal. But for Johnny Newton to have literally zero situational awareness, like even if they were going to try to bluff and get you to jump off sides, he couldn't have jump off sides any quicker. I mean, you know what I mean? Like he thought as soon as Russ Wilson got to the center that the ball was going to be snapped. I mean, just absolutely no situational awareness there. So my chumps of the week, two NFC East rookies, Tyrone Tracy, Johnny Newton. I'm throwing a flag on the play.

Okay. I accept your Johnny Newton nominee here. However, Oh, because you like Tyrone Tracy. We can't call him the, he was good otherwise in the game. Go ahead. Sorry. That's not why. The New York Giants now currently hold the number one overall pick. Tracy knew exactly what he was doing. He's like, I am not playing another season with this bum at quarterback. I am fumbling this ball here to make sure we get my guy Shihdoer Sanders in here next year because I cannot live with Daniel Jones at quarterback anymore. I think Tracy is arguably the

champ of the week for doing that to be honest. I should have thought of that. It's crazy to think that we have nine NFL teams right now that are three and seven or worse. So the race for the number one pick, dude, this could be one of the most exciting races of the year.

Is anyone actually going to tank? I actually want to know, did Tyrone Tracy do it on purpose or not? I need to know. I need to know. He did. He was very distraught after the play. Very distraught. Was it distraught or distraught? You know the answer to that.

I like your twist. I like your twist. Yeah, it's fun, fun banter I've seen on the X machine the last few days. People praising Tyrone for the fumble. I just thought it was funny. So not even an original bit, my bad. My chump of the week here is one, a quarterback in New York, not named Daniel Jones, and that's Aaron Rogers.

Preach on it. Joe, this guy's cooked. Cooked. booked he i mean the team is playing so tight up like uptight not tight as in good tight bad tight it's like everyone is scared to make a mistake devante adams is dropping touchdown passes and i love by the way that play was so funny because rogers goes up to him on the bench they kind of

have like a a very not nice exchange you know and when you watch the play especially from the all 22 it's hilarious because the ball actually goes through the defender's hands so like rogers is yelling at at Devante for dropping a touchdown that he literally threw to another defender. I, bro, I can't with this guy. I'm so over it. I'm so done. Rogers, hang it up, my brother.

You are, you are cooked. And what's crazy is if they caught him before June 1st, they still owe him $100 million. Yeah. These quarterback contracts are out of control. Atlanta is a lot with Kurt Cousins and, you know, if they wanted to go to Pennix anytime soon.

This is, who, Joe, this is a bad situation. The Jets are just dubster fire, but like they're in contention for the first, first overall pick in a season that they've decided they're going to go all in. Oh my God. This is hilarious. Oops. Yeah.

Oh, 31 to six lost the Cardinals. We'll talk about the Cardinals here in a little while, but. Yeah. Oh, it's a slacking too, bro. It wasn't even close. So they've lost six of their last seven. They beat Houston. And that's another conversation, what Houston's got going on.

Let's look at the rest of the way for the Jets. You tell me how many wins they have here. They have four wins so far, right? No, they're three and seven. Colts, Seahawks, both at home, at Miami, at Jacksonville, host the Rams, at Buffalo, host the dolphins. Oh, my gosh. So they can compete with the Colts, especially with Flacco playing QB? They could probably go one in one against the Colts and Seahawks, right?

You'd think? Yeah. I don't know. Seahawks, they're one of these sneaky teams in any given week. They can just play good and then you're done. Yeah, I don't know what to think of Seattle, dude. Yeah, I think you're right, though. They'll go, they could go one and one.

They can go one-on-one. They could beat the Jags. So, and then two Florida trips, Miami and Jacksonville. And they go one-in-one there. They can go one-in-one there, right? Yeah, they can because. Rams, Bill, Dolphins, they can lose all three of those. Absolutely.

So we're talking probably their peak is six wins. So here's the, I'm getting to this question. Were they better last year with Zach Wilson? They're seven and team, seven and ten team with a better defense, right? The whole story here was that they got a lot, they got Tyron Smith and Mike Williams and Aaron Rogers is going to at least be a mediocre quarterback and Breeze Hall's healthy. Yeah, I mean, they're just, some of it is just they're getting out physicaled. I mean, the Cardinals just ram the ball down their throat. I mean, it was ugly.

Houston did it the week before that, too. Houston and Joe Mixon. Ramandre the week before that. Yeah, they stink. Naja Harris, the week before that. I mean, some of it is that for sure, but I think Rogers' touchdown production is, like, significantly better than where Zach Wilson was a year ago.

But every other metric is literally the same. Because their defense is worse, and nobody wanted to talk about it. Yep. The John Franklin Myers trade, whatever was the locker room issue there. obviously losing Jermaine Johnson Hertz, but signing Javan Kinla,

I'm thinking that was a starting caliber player next to Quinn and Williams. It's a massive miscalculation when you have no depth on the interior defensive line. The identity of this Jets defense has been its ability to rotate 8, 9, 10 deep up front. And they got like four dudes. Like you lost the identity of what your defense is.

And then there's like, the vibes are bad. The vibes are really bad. up the vibes are bad on offense. And I think with Aaron Rogers, that's just going to be the case. I love that you mentioned out physical because I feel like this year more than any year of me watching football, I feel like there's the physicality difference between the teams that are good and the teams that are bad is very, very vast. I feel that. And I wonder, you know, as you start to, as a modern day athlete changes a little bit and you talk about the game of football, which is still played by the toughest, strongest dudes on the planet, where you have to.

to be violent for 60 minutes over and over and over and over and over and over again, right? Fourth quarter, you've got to continue to stick your face in a fan. The teams that have the culture in place that's going to bring out the best and those players in those moments that care about their teammates that are in it for the right reasons, they're going to be the ones that have success. And I think that that's a big reason why you're seeing. I think probably the biggest contrast between the best and the worst teams in the NFL. It's which teams foster that environment to get that competitive strain out of everyone on the team in the most critical moments. And I feel like that's a big part of what's. You can talk talent, you can talk X's and

those, put whatever analytics and metrics that you want. Who's got the dudes that are going to continue to battle for 60 minutes? And I think it matters. I mean, we're going to get to it, but we just saw it in the Houston Lions game that, you know, the Lions are willing to play 60 minutes. The Texans played 55. That's what it came down to. the culture, the physicalness, boom. But, yeah, man, I agree. All right. We got our champs and our chumps.

They're in. We did that. Yeah. We did that. All right, coming up here in just a moment, which teams have records that lie the most? We got a bunch of teams to get into on the other side of it. Folks, be sure to stick with us.

All right, Brett Whitefield. This is your idea, man. This is your idea. wanted to get into teams that have records that lie the most. And what's interesting is I feel like when you came up with this idea for the segment, we both had the same team in mind. Now, we've got six teams that we're going to cover. But why are the Minnesota of Vikings to post your boy for this conversation? Oh, man. It's, well, for me, it's Sam Donald. It's 100% Sam Donald.

And gosh, it was probably after, it was after the Jordan love return game, whatever that was when they played the Green Bay Packers. Is that week four? I think that was week four. Yep. That second half of that game, I started telling everybody I know that talks ball. Sam Donald's back.

This is the Sam Donald we've come to know and love throughout his career. This is why he has been a renegade quarterback at this point. Can't find a home. And he was back and that has not relented. Even in a week this week, Joe, where they win the game, Sam Donald has three bad turnovers takes a couple unnecessary sacks it's just like you just wonder what's going on in his

head man and so i i feel like when you're getting this this level of erratic play this no guys i'm not exaggerating this isn't a guy who is making a bad player to a game he's he's making very costly errors every single game and when you're getting that level of erratic play from your qb eventually it will bite you in the butt and i know they're seven and two and the defense looks good and they have justin jefferson and uh when Jones is healthy, a really good run game. But man, I'm telling you this is not how you don't win long term with QB play like this. I don't think you're wrong.

I don't think you're wrong about any of that. Sam Darnold concerns me. Their offensive line concerns me as well, right? With Cam Robinson at left tackle, I think their guards have been underwhelming for three years now. They haven't done anything about it besides continuing to roll with Ed Ingram and thinking that it's going to come together. Here's the thing about Minnesota.

And I agree with you. I don't think there's as good as seven and two suggestions. Yes, they are. Their next two games are against the Titans and Bears. They're going to win those games. They're going to be nine and two. I think there's probably going to be a 10-win NFC team that doesn't get in. But if you're nine and two, they're going to the playoffs, right? They're going. Arizona, Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle, Green Bay, Detroit. That's their finishing stretch. But if they win these next two and get to nine and two, they got to win one or two of those other ones and they're going to get in? Or would this be the all-time tank job? If they do, get to nine and two win one more game and don't make the playoffs after starting the season nine and two like i'm fascinated to see how this plays out with minnesota yeah that's a that's a great call i mean i definitely think they're going to make the playoffs sitting at seven two they you know they still get they have two games against the bears left right you do yeah i mean those that's probably two wins gosh well what were you see here's the thing about minnesota my preseason expectations

for this team was not very high i thought they'd win six, eight games, right? They've already exceeded that. Now, I know the journey of the season takes on a life of its own, but in some ways, this feels like a successful year for Minnesota, kind of regardless of what happens. The concern, though, is what if Brian Flores becomes like a big time coaching candidate and you lose that, right? Don't you feel like that's such an important part of what this team is? And I, you know, I'll be excited about McCarthy coming back and what the offense can be, you know, that'll be intriguing to me. And I think Kevin O'Connell has proven in a short period of time that he can, you know,

get a lot out of his teams and win some crazy games. But if they lose that rock on defense in Brian Flores, a very unique scheme. I do wonder, you know, how they pick up the pieces and don't have a big regression on that side of the ball, which I think is a big part of their equation. That's a great point, Joe. It does seem like the NFL has a lot of these Brian Flores type guys now. where it's not exactly it's not a one to one but you know i think mike mcdonald and jesse mentor and some of these younger guys they there's going to be a protege somewhere in the league that can

try to mimic what flores is doing now is he going to be like for us pulls like the right strings at the right time seemingly always like that's kind of what he's uh really shown us this i mean i would say end of last year and this year um it's really cool but i i feel like they have a better chance of replacing that than people probably think. Now, I'm looking ahead of their schedule, Joe. After the Tennessee and Chicago game, it gets really tough. Arizona, Atlanta, then another one against Chicago, Seattle, Green Bay, Detroit, like there's a lot of loseable games in there for them.

For sure. But four to five of those are at home out of after Tennessee and Chicago on the road. You'd like to think they can win one or two, right? Yeah. Maybe home against the Bears, obviously you penciled that in as a win. But gosh, on the road versus Seattle. not an easy game at home versus Green Bay. Are we sure on the road in Seattle is not an easy game?

They've lost four in a row at Lewinfield, right? Have they really? I didn't know that. Yes, they've lost four in a row to the Giants, Niners, Bills, and Rams. Yeah, as we've stated before, the Seattle Cocks might be the most confusing team in the entire NFL. Right, yeah, sure. I don't know if that's a hard game or not. No clue.

Yeah. It might be that week. It might not be. I don't necessarily like the idea of Ryan Grubb against Brian Flores. I will say that. Oh, gosh. Yeah, good point. Yeah, so a team that's exceeded expectations for sure. I think what they've put on paper, though, for me, especially offensively,

is that like when JJ is at the helm next year, this is a scary team for my Detroit Lions to deal with. And the NFC North just seems to be in a much better spot than people thought it was coming into the season, right? Like, this is a really tough division. Sure. Yeah. And I mean, the Lions are going to win Super Bowl this year anyway. So who cares? Who cares about next year?

We throw out a team here. I think we agree with this. Team that record lies the most. It's a Cincinnati bangles that are four and six. They're a lot better than a four and six football team. I'll tell you that. I think Joe Pearl might be playing the best football of his career. And that's a high bar to clear.

I mean, that's not even a hot take. I mean, 24 touchdowns, four interceptions. Dee Higgins has been out of the lineup. And really the overall makeup of his receiving core with no Tyler Boyd of complete overhaul at the kind of the tight end position, new backfield, offensive line still stinks. And Joe Burrow, again, kind of not having a normal offseason, he's working back from the wrist injury. For him to come in and play at the level that he is is outstanding. Now, the problem is they, they started one and four, but this is, this is the Bengals, man.

This is what the Bengals do every year. And we knew they were going to lose the Baltimore. Like, we had this conversation. It's always been about, how do we get to 500? Now, the next two games will define their season at the Chargers, Sunday night football. That's a great decision to flex that game in. I can't wait for that one. And then out of the buy, they play the Pittsburgh Steelers. They cannot, they got to win one of those games. And then they run the table with at Dallas, at the Titans, Brown's Bronco Steelers.

That's the plan. Go one in one and then run the table. Or just win them all. But I'll tell you this, as a. fan of a team that's going to be a top four seed in the AFC. I don't want to play Joe Burrow in the playoffs. I don't want that. And the thing is defensively, they're not a very good defense.

That's going to be the fatal flaw of this Bengals team, is their defense is not very good. But Joe Burrow and the way he's playing quarterback is going to give them a chance every single week. They got the most important thing right. If you look through their schedule, they're

due for some one score variance here, regression. Like positive regression because gosh, they've got five one score losses. They've lost to the Ravens twice by a combined total of four points. That's tough. They lost to the commanders by five. The Chiefs by one, the Patriots by six.

So like you look at a team like Kansas City who's nine and no, they've won every one score game. You know, they're due for a regression the other way. It's the Bengals, they just had some bad breaks. And some of that is good teams will find. ways to win those games, right? And then bad teams will find ways to lose those games. I think, though, the truth is definitely somewhere in the middle. And I think that's why their schedule is lying to us a little bit because they have played the best teams in the NFL really tightly. So, I mean, I think everyone would say Chiefs and Ravens are at least two of the top three teams

in the NFC, right? And they've got three losses to those two teams over three games by a combined total of five points. That's, that's insane. Like, they are right there playing with the best of the best. Um, it is definitely a liar, especially T. Higgins is going to come back. The offense is always even better with T. Higgins on the field as we've already laid out here. Um, the defense though, Joe, you brought that up. You think they're getting better. It feels like they're, they're possibly getting better.

I know the Ravens drop the bomb on them, but, um, the pass rush has been really good of late. You know, the I feel like the secondaries kind of come alive a little bit. No? I know. I feel like there has been some progression, particularly with a run defense, right? Everybody was running all over Cincinnati. earlier in the season. I think that's been a lot better of late for sure, which I think some of helping your defense is being good on offense. And I feel like that's started to wake up as well.

So I, their head-to-head matchups, they do get to play the Chargers. They get to play the Broncos. Those are the, I mean, those are the teams that are in the mix here for these wildcard spots. And those will be defining moments. And we'll find out if the Bengals can get out of the hole or not, right? They like to burrow themselves in a hole. Wow. No pun intended. Wow, that was so good. You mentioned the Chiefs. I'll let you, I'll let you go here.

The 9 and 0 only undefeated team in the NFL, your back-to-back Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs. Yeah. So do I, Joe, we've talked about this. You don't want to fall in the trap of saying they're overrated or they're, you know, not as good as their record again, because I have fallen to this trap a couple years now. my homes you know especially the last two years it just hasn't really played like vintage my

homes but then they get to the playoffs and it just doesn't matter so i'm not i'm not going to fall into this trap i do think nina no is probably a bit much do i think they're a perfect football team heck no like i think some of these wins are just ridiculous they've won do they have a win by double digits yeah they do against the saints they beat by double digits every other game has been one score. So they got seven wins by one score. And to some not great teams either, right? Like the Falcons pushed them to the brink.

The Saints, I think, were competitive in the first half of that game in the middle of a losing streak. The Raiders pushed them to the brink. The Broncos pushed them to the brink. Like, so again, am I saying the chiefs aren't the best team in the league? I'm not saying that. I just don't think 9-0 is representative of how they've played, especially the way they beat the Broncos Joe, come on. I mean, you got to have your bugle operation figured out.

That's an absolutely embarrassing situation by the left side of that field goal unit. It's not, I mean, Will, Will Lutz, I mean. Oh, no, it's not on him. Yeah. But shoot, imagine being that guy in film study this week for the Broncos. I'll admit, I have not been watching every snap of the Denver Broncos field goal operation this year. but surely the special teams coach should have been aware of this deficiency and surely

Dave Tube, the Kansas Chiefs Special Team Coordinator, knew about this, right? Like, what are you doing? Like you got a self-scout. Like that, that's 79. That dude hadn't have a clue what he was supposed to do in a high leverage moment, obviously, the highest of leverage moments. It's never good like after a game where a player says we saw something on tape, we thought we could exploit.

And it happens to be on a sports. special teams play, that's even worse, right? Because, like, those are pretty static, repeatable plays. Like, there's not a lot of looks you're going to give your field goal unit. Like that's. But also, if you're a special teams coordinator, this is what, I mean, it's what you do, man. This is what you do. You're looking at this crap.

So constantly here, right? Yeah. Let me say this about Kansas City. I think you kind of already know my temperature here. I think what's maybe overlooked in the entire conversation of this 9-0 chiefs team that's winning that even at times it feels like they have no business winning. They are the Kansas City Chiefs. that have won the last two Super Bowls and three of the last five.

Every single team is coming in and giving them their absolute best effort, right? You want to beat the chiefs. It's the measuring stick of measuring sticks. And I don't think we can overlook that Kansas City is getting every single team's best effort, and it's still not good enough. And they just keep stacking win after win after win after win. And I feel like this is maybe exactly what we talked about with the Patriots in that dynasty, where everyone said,

they sleepwalk through some of the season, they get to the playoffs, but they just kind of figure it out, they know when to turn it on. I think it's exactly that. I think teams are just saying, hey, it's Brady, it's the Patriots.

We want to beat this team. It's not good enough. That's a really good salient point there. I didn't really think about that, you know, the psychology of playing the Chiefs. I mean, you see it with all the top teams,

too. It's not just a Chiefs. Like, everyone wants to give the Ravens their best game. Everyone wants to give the Lions their best game. So that's a really good point, Joe.

I'll give you, I'll give you cred for that. I know you have a showdown with them this week, too. So how, and this isn't the preview show, but how are you feeling about that? Well, it's a big week for the AFC in general. You get Ravens, Steelers, you get Bill's Chiefs, you get Bengals Chargers. That's the, the, you get one, I know everyone's a different time zones, but that's one Eastern, 425 Eastern in the Sunday night football game.

It's a good big week for the AFC. We'll preview that on a Thursday episode. My temperature for Bill's Chiefs is this. The bills beat them the last. three years in the regular season and twice they beat them pretty bad. Has it mattered? Has it matter? No. It has not mattered. Can you beat the Chiefs twice in one season? You think I haven't done the research on this? I got it right here on this handy-dandy notebook.

You've had a lot of different attempts for teams to beat the Chiefs twice. The only ones that did it, Brady in 2018 and Burrow in 2021, the year they went to Super Bowl. I it's just I everyone's going to get all hyped up whatever the CBS college game day thing is I never watch these preview shows I don't know who they're for but people watch these they're there and in Buffalo there's all the hype in the world my homes Allen the games are usually entertaining I get it but does it matter we're going to have a lot of fun takes on Twitter whatever happens in that game next week to discuss there's going to be a lot of people put in their foot their mouth it's gonna be great it's gonna be great what do you mean by that

what's putting their foot in the mouth like what i just the the knee jerk reaction stuff like if a say say the bill's go out there and and beat the chiefs by 10 you're gonna get guys on the x machine i'm talking i'm not talking fans i'm talking analysts you know crowning the the bills the the chance this year you'll get the opposite too if the chiefs go out and beat the bills you know there'll be all kinds of knee jerk reactions either way especially you Because it's, is it in prime time or no, CBS 425. 425. Is it a game of the week?

I would, I would suppose if they're bringing the college game day. What do they call it? The NFL today, I don't know what it is. Something. Yeah, I don't know. It's definitely not college game day. I just mean, you're going to have some ridiculous knee jerk reactions about what I'm course, because that's what the NFL is.

It's a one, it's an entire week of overreacting and engagement farming. I, I know how this works, but I'm not falling for it. Wake me up when these two teams. teams play in January and that's the that's the one I care about. I'm tired of beating the Chiefs in the regular season to lose in the postseason. All right. So what's the verdict? Nine and no is legit then. I think it's legit. I mean, I think they're the best team in football. They have the best record is, should they be nine and no? Probably not. But if it tells you that they're the best team in football and I think they're the best team in football, I don't think it's a liar. And I think maybe you do. I mean, I think I've, my stance isn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. You made some good points here.

Right. You like to use that word salient. Whenever you say that was a salient point, I know I said something decent there. So it's a big, big moment for me. All right, we got three more teams to get into where we'll assess if their record lies or not. Folks, be sure to stick with us. At Capital One, we're more than just a credit card company. We're people just like you who believe in the power of yes. Yes to new opportunities.

Yes to second chances. Yes to a fresh start. That's why we've helped over four. million Canadians get access to a credit card because at Capital One, we say yes, so you don't have to hear another no. What will you do with your yes? Get the yes you've been waiting for at Capital 1.ca.ca slash yes. Terms and conditions apply. Brayfield, three more teams. We've already covered the Bengals, Vikings, and Chiefs. We got some interesting ones coming up here. Let's start with the NFC West leading

6 and 4 Arizona Cardinals. They're on a heater right now. If I'm not mistaken, they've won, is it four in a row? They've won four in a row. They've won five of their last six. They just beat the Jets 31 to 6. They beat the Bears 29 to 9. They overcame a 10-point second half deficit to beat the dolphins.

They beat that stingy Chargers team. They beat the Niners. you buying in on the first place Arizona Cardinals? Yeah, I want to, Joe. I want to buy in on them. Listen, there's a lot to unpack. I'll say this. When they were sitting at one and three after coming off that loss against the commanders

where Jaden Daniel's head is coming out party, I'm pretty sure we sat on the show and buried them. Kyler was playing horrible ball at the time. Legitimately horrific. Maybe you weren't part of that. I know I for sure buried them. so maybe I shouldn't put words in your mouth but I it was bad I mean I ridiculed Kyler pretty strongly and just like things happen in the football world usually

when you have the strongest take you're proven wrong pretty quickly so Kyler is absolutely balling right now um and I think more importantly than that Joe John Gannon's got this defense playing how they don't have anybody right we talked about them selling at the deadline Joe we talked about them trading Buddha Baker And that's their only good, like that's their only stud on defense. They have, they have an undrafted corner starting every game. They have no, you know, no bona fide pass rushers at all. These guys are, I mean, even their best pass rush, guard, guard deck, who went down

with an injury, like, he's, he's nothing. He's nobody's best pass rusher besides the Cardinals, right? Right. And he is the number of three on any other team. Exactly. And John Gannon has these dudes just bawling out right now. I can't even believe it. Like what, they gave up six points against the Jets, nine against the bears.

Yeah, bad offenses, but still, holding any NFL team under 10 points is insane defense. Honestly. The Dolphins in what, two? Was that two his first game back? When the two is first game back, yeah. Yeah, they 27 there, they got 15 to the Chargers. I mean, really solid defense. I can't, I can't believe it too, because John Gannon was being run out of town in Philly.

he was there. They were glad when he left. Yeah. They didn't think he could coach defense. And this guy has these dudes playing really, really well. It makes me wonder if they should have made a move for Hassan Redneck at the deadline. Yeah, it's a, it had been a fun reunion. Actually, it would have been weird for him to come back, but I mean, with Gannon and certainly there's proof of concept there, you kind of like

it. Yeah, a team that drafted him and Gannon being the guy who unlocked him would be kind of cool. Sorry. The thing about Gannon is he felt when they hired him, he felt like one of those coaches, that was hired to be fired. It's like, all right, we got to, what we got to do, right? And now you're like, oh, maybe there's a little something here. He's kind of goofy, right? The pew, pew, pew, pew stuff. And he's kind of goofy, right? But, I mean, it's hard to argue with what's happening here. You mentioned they don't have

any good players in defense. I tend to agree with you. Budabaker is obviously a stud. Jalen Thompson is running made. It's safety's pretty good. I like their slot corner, Garrett Williams. He came along last year. He's a nice little player, right? This is kind of a back forward defense. And that's what's interesting is like they don't have. the front. They respectfully, they just don't. But they're playing above their weight class. And, you know, Drew Petzig in this offense, I mean, obviously they run the ball well, but he's getting a lot out of Kyler Murray. And I think what really impresses me about Arizona is not only that they're six and four, it's that their resume of losses is actually pretty good. They lose in Buffalo week one

in a pretty tight game. They lose to the lions, the commanders, the Packers. I mean, we're talking about teams that are like Super Bowl contenders. So it's not like they've, they've, they've, they have four very respectable losses, in my opinion, early in the season when, you know, it's still really Kyler's first offseason going into this system with Drew Petzig and had a lot of new pieces of the offense and a defense where I don't feel like they're a super talented group.

You know, I, I guess I'm a little unsurprised that they started slow and have kind of figured it out as they went along. And again, no shame. losses to the Bill's, Rams, Lions, and Commanders. Or, excuse me, Bill's, Lions, commanders, and Packers. Yeah. One thing they've tightened up on defense, too, Joe. So they started the season just horrific run defense.

Really bad. Since like week seven is when they really came. They started getting better after the Lions game. Lions kind of ran down their throat. After that, they got a little bit better. And then in week seven, you saw a big turn. But they're only giving up 46% of run. are what we call success.

So their success rate allowed is just 46% since week seven, which ranks, I mean, that ranks top five in the NFL over that stretch. That was by far their biggest weakness. And one of the things that put a lot of stress on that past defense is when you're in third and one constantly, because you gave up to four-yard, you know, a four-and-a-five-yard run, it's just very hard to play past defense in the NFL.

And they're getting teams into third and long, third and medium. And it's really helped the past defense. It's helped those pass rushers get home because now it's obvious passing situation. So you saw it against Miami. Miami is one of the more robust run games in the league. And there was, I think they had one run,

get out. I think H& had like a 50 yarder. Other than that, though, they boxed in that entire runoff. I mean, it was pretty special. I mean, you're just kind of seen that week to week right now. And gosh, I just love what they're doing, man. Let's talk about, we have two more teams here.

Next up is the Atlanta Falcons. The six and four NFC South leading with a two game. advantage over Tampa Bay with the tiebreaker. So really up three. Six and four Atlanta Falcons. Brother, this team really, really confuses me because I keep buying in. And then they keep telling me, no. Losing by 20 at home to Seattle.

Losing to the Saints. I know they get the fired coach pump, but come on, man. You can't lose the freaking Saints. Who is this team? Oh, they are so frustrating. So you mentioned the Seattle game. Gosh, the two weeks before that, they put up like a thousand yards of offense. Then they have Seattle at home and just get popped against another team is very confusing and very hard to figure out.

I don't know. I think their defense is a problem. I think obviously Kirk Cousins is limited in what he can do. I think when he's in his bag, when he's feeling it, when they're the run game's going, you're getting the play action stuff working. He looks great. Looks like a guy you can do it. when they have to play from behind, I don't think this is going to be a thing.

He doesn't have enough creative ability in his game to make it work. And the defense is so inconsistent. It's unbelievable. Like, is AJ Terrell the fakedest shutdown corner in the NFL? Yes. He gets kind of crowned as a guy, as a dude who needs to be lined up against other teams number ones. I don't think that's the best spot for him.

He should just play a side and call it good. Yeah, he does not. resemble that of a shutdown corner to me. But the pass rush, too, man, they, they really aren't getting a lot done with the guys they have. I know they were, they were rumored to be a candidate to trade for somebody at the deadline. But man, this is, I don't know. I have no idea what to make of this team. I'm inclined to think that they're probably not as good as their record, actually.

Yeah, I'd agree that they're not as good as their record. And they're still going to win this division. I'd be stunned if they didn't. But they don't have a cakewalk. at Denver, Chargers, at Minnesota, at the Raiders, Giants, commanders, Panthers. The last four is pretty straightforward, but Broncos, Chargers, Vikings, the next three. I mean, things can get a little dicey there, but I don't know, man. This isn't a team that come playoff time, if I'm an NFC contender, I'm real worried about having to play.

I think they're, like you said, I think they're a bit game script dependent, and that's tough. When games have to go a certain way for you to win it, that's a tough spot to be. Well, everyone in their brother knows the NFC South is not a good division. Four of their wins are against NFC South teams. They've already played five of their division games, actually. And they got the Eagles early in the season, right? That was like before the Eagles figured out how to play football again. So, yeah, no AJ Brown in that game.

I'm pretty sure Devante Smith may have missed as well. Yeah, because I think John Dodson was like the number one that week. That was not great. Yeah, but then they played the Chiefs tough. Well, as we said already. One more team to get here to here. are there records of a liar or not. Miami Dolphins coming off of a win over the Rams on Monday night football.

Defense looked very good in that contest. They played the bills tough the week before. They're three and six. And we've seen last year in the NFC, which is this year's AFC. We saw two three and six teams go to the playoffs. And the dolphins, I mean, obviously a horrible start to the season with Tua going down in week two and the offense just can't function without him. It's such a timing and rhythm-based offense with a lot of checks and tags.

And it's just without their starting quarterback, they don't have a pulse. Tons of injuries on defense. But are you buying in on this team being able to rally here? I mean, they're three and six. Their next two are at home against the Raiders and Patriots. Are we talking about before you can blink a five and six dolphins team that's going into Green Bay before hosting the jets? I mean, are they going to do this? Are they going to rally?

They normally, they normally, it's the opposite for Miami where they kind of fall apart late in the season. Can they do it? You buy in. Well, I first, I certainly buy in that they're the easiest team to identify with a, a record that lies. Because they missed their quarterback for, what, five, six games or whatever it was? Four. Four. Okay.

Still. Yeah, I mean, you look at their schedule. You feel really good about some of these games, right? So they got two against the Jets. Raiders, Patriots, and then Browns, they can win all those games. They could get to nine. Is nine going to do it? I think there's a chance.

It really comes down to number two in the end and the north is going to go, right? And then it's Bengals, Chargers, Broncos, and can somebody crash the parties? And right now between Bengals, Chargers, and Broncos, only two of them can make it. So now you add the dolphins to the mix, only two of those four can make it. And certainly Miami at three and six is behind the eight ball. Yeah. You mentioned their defense, Joe. I want to talk about this.

I thought this was a team that was going to have a really bad pass rush all year because they just didn't have the dudes. The dudes they had are hurt or coming back from injury. They're scheming it up, though. Absolutely. Their pressure rate on the season is probably going to be, you know, over 36% after last night. You know, I look at the way they're using Chop Robinson.

It's perfect. It's exactly what I said they should do. Stunts, mug, you know, A-Gap looks, twists try to get him creative looks at the quarterback where he just has be an athlete yeah be it go be an athlete go go win in space go you know crash a gap close on a quarterback um he's only got two sacks on the year but when you look at his pressure the last two games yeah last two games yeah pressure or win rate's actually pretty good he's you know they're getting him a lot of unblocked pressures which i think is is huge for a guy like that because here's the

thing he's so athletic in space you have no chance literally no chance i mean he's going to close you he's going to disrupt the play. So, um, Zach Seiler made a big impact coming back last night. I felt like his presence was known. Clay is Campbell somehow 38 years old is still ball in. So they have the pieces, Joe. They have the pieces to make a run here. Yeah. And I think they bench David Long at linebacker and put Anthony Walker and I think that's unlocked a lot. And I mean, they already lost Yalen Phillips, Bradley Chubb. They just, I think they just opened his practice window. That'd be a big boost to their defense. And I, Anthony Weaver is scheming it up really well. I thought he's been,

I think he's been good all year. I think he's just bad to injuries, right, whether it's been Holland, whether it's, I mean, Phillips and Chubb, sealer missing time, David Long just playing extremely poorly. You know, they're kind of figuring it out. I worry that the hole's too deep and that you're talking about better teams that are in the mix for, you know, we're talking about the last wildcard spot, but they got a puncher's chance. And I think it's a rallying opportunity for them after a really, really bad start to the season that can give them some momentum going into next year.

All right. So that's it for what teams have the record that lies the most. We got a smorgasbord of topics to get into coming up on the other side of it, including some Caleb Williams discussion. We got to get Brett's take on the Lions latest win, the Colts quarterback situation, and a whole lot more. Folks, be sure to stick with us. All right, Brett Whitefield, a little NFC North conversation here to start things.

let's talk about Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears we mentioned words like bad vibes I don't think they get worse than what's happening in Chicago Caleb Williams after a couple of games where it felt like he was

coming around it feels like it's going the other way this was supposed to be the greatest supporting cast in the history of a rookie quarterback and Caleb Williams and all of his hype where are we at man what do you see him from Chicago so the Chicago Bears specifically as it pertains to Caleb Williams, Joe.

He had a stretch in the middle of the schedule where you felt like things were improving. You felt like you saw some of the creative ability. The ball accuracy obviously showed up at times. But then he's regressed back to some really bad habits. And it's almost gotten worse than where he was in week one, week two, where he's not necessarily turning the ball over, but it's like some of these sacks he's taken, Joe.

And I know, like, if you scroll social media for five seconds, you feel like the Chicago Bears have the worst offensive line in football and they might you know i'm not going to sit here and say that they have a good offensive line but i would say like he just took a nine sat game and i would say at least five of them were on him now there were a couple plays where he literally had no chance you know ball snapped left tackle loses Caleb's forced to to improvise and make something happen gets sacked you know i'm not i'm certainly not crushing him on that that's on the o line but there are so many plays joe where the ball is snapped he fails to to step up in the pocket or slide

or figure out how to reset that offensive line and then just holds the ball like a goof ball for literally five and a half seconds then breaks the pocket, then gets sacked. It's like, where is this creative playmaking ability

that we were promised with him? I have not seen it in droves at all. It's very, very few and far between right now. When he's tried to do some stuff, he's either taking sacks or he's sailing, you know, scramble drill go balls to Rome of Dunes

or DJ Moore. I don't know what's happening, but it's ugly. Brett, you know where this playmaking is. It doesn't matter if you can't play with instructor. You have to be able to win from the pocket and read a progression and throw the football. And that's always been kind of the issue with Caleb Williams is that he's underdeveloped in that capacity. And I've went to this phrase a lot.

But it irks me when I see analysis on Caleb Williams. that's rooted in while he's playing like he did when he was at USC. Yes. Okay. Well, that's who he is. The whole thing with Caleb Williams was, can you get him to play with instructor? And then you put the cape on for a few plays. I said this earlier this year in the podcast.

For the most part, every quarterback is basically the same except for five to ten plays a game. Right? So offenses run, what, 60 to 80 snaps a game? Yeah. You got to do this, the smart normal. will right thing with the ball for almost all of those. And then when it's a high leverage moment and you got to do it, do it. But you can't major in that.

That's too inefficient of a way to play. And so, yeah, Caleb Williams is an instinctive playmaker with physical upside. He's also extremely underdeveloped in just running an offense. And until he can run an offense, it's not going to work in the NFL. And you can sit here and you can blame the offensive line. I don't really have any issues with their offensive line talent. I feel like Caleb Williams is making them worse. there's certainly nothing to talk about with his skill players.

That's a complete non-factor. His defense was supposed to be decent. So I think with a player like Caleb Williams is you needed to have the right the right environment to onboard him. And he wasn't Andrew Luck coming out of Stanford ready to run an NFL offense, right? And if you're going to major in improvising, then you got to go on the Jordan Love plan. That was Jordan Love. Jordan Love majored in improvising.

He took time to learn. He had a great coach in Matt LaFlor, to, onboard him and get him going. And is there still some warts from ever here and there? Yeah, absolutely. But what was the right plan for Shane Waldron to come in and really unlock this out of Caleb Williams? And now you're staring at a situation where Matt Iber Flus feels like he's gone. And that's probably a good thing. But that doesn't help stabilize things for Caleb Williams. And so you better, you better nail this head coach higher because there's a lot of grooming necessary for Caleb Williams to be the

quarterback that so many people romanticize about him becoming. It really resembles Justin Field situation. Shoot, even the Mitch Trubisky situation, Joe, where it's like, and I said this all draft process. I'm okay with the bearers taking Caleb Williams, but I didn't want Iber Fluse to be the guy to make the pick because I knew he was a lame duck head coach. So now you're going to be in this revolving door. They did this to Justin Fields.

They did this to Mitcherbisky where new head coach right away, new system right away. It's like you're trying to teach these guys the basics of playing quarterback, how to play from structure. And you're going to now swap out an offensive coordinator, a head coach, build a new culture. Could it work? Could that be sure? I don't want to put my quarterback through that, though. I want to. Brett, that's three quarterbacks since 2017 that they picked in the first round.

And your head coach didn't last more than a season. they're not learning they're not learning from their mistakes joe boy that's tough man yeah it's i feel bad for caleb from that standpoint is like he wasn't really other than the fact that they loaded up that wide receiver he wasn't really put in the situation to succeed yet and again we're not bearing caleb williams he could still turn out to be sure every every bit worthy of that first overall pick just right now what we're seeing isn't good and the vibes in chicago are stinky stinky bad um man it's it just it's a shame too that it is the same team making the same mistake over and over.

So in Fields and Caleb, there's so many similarities on their college tape, too. That's why it's a really easy low-hanging fruit comparison there. It's like they had all the same warts. They do all the same things. Fields is probably a little bit more dynamic of a runner. Caleb's a little bit more dynamic of a passer, but still there's so much overlap. It was always going to take time. They needed to develop this guy.

4.6 net yards per passing attempt for, the Chicago Bears this year, which is a mediocre rush offense in the NFL. That's bad, dude. At lowest in the league? Oh, it's got to be. I will tell you. So average net yards per attempt,

4.6 is not the worst. Cleveland Brown said, we can do worse at 4.3, but they are 31st tied with the New England Patriots at 4.6, the rest of the league, including the Titans and giants are five yards or better. Literally, I mean, that's a great way to frame it. 4.6 net yards per passing attempt is a mediocre NFL rushing offense, and that's your passing offense. You said the Giants are better?

The Giants are better. The Shanders are better. The Raiders are almost a full yard better. Yeah, and these are like bottom of the barrel passing offenses, and they're all better than Chicago. It is also funny that he's gone head to head now with Jaden Daniels and Drake May and lost both those games. Not that QB wins is necessarily a thing, but like, you know. There's some overlapping parallels there for sure. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the Lions won.

They beat the Houston Texans. And I'll say one thing and then I'll get out of the way. Two picks for Camarro Lasseter. That threw me for such a loop. I did not know you were going straight to the crap. Hey, let's get right to it. Let's get right. Oh, man, that threw me off because I had something else.

It's on you. Those are on you. those picks are on you, Brett Whitefield. Oh, man. I knew when I watched it too, and I saw, especially the second one, which was a hilarious Hail Mary attempt. Yeah, the first three weren't real picks, right?

For golf, they weren't real picks. The first three, who cares? What's funny is you can argue the first four weren't. The Leporta one, as soon as I saw, I was like, that's on Sam Leporta. Head came around. Cross face, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he was getting bodied up in his stem.

You're a freaking tight end against a corner, brother. You got to get that guy off of you. Like, that is, that's why you play tie-ned to not wide receiver, right? You should be more physical than the corner. So, um, and even, I think it's fair.

Four out of five probably weren't golf's wall. Yeah, the fifth one was bad. But what's funny is Dan Campbell even blamed the fifth one on, on James and Williams. He said, Hey, we coach him to take a harsher angle up field.

Golf threw it where he's supposed to be. Now I'm going to push back on Dan and say when you watch the tape, golf let that ball go after Williams broke. So he should have been able to, to track the angle Williams is on. And he throws it to the sideline. Williams catches. that. So, but yeah, four out of the five weren't really on golf.

I think that's funny. But Lasseter getting two, obviously is hilarious. Right. Right. Never have a take. Just never have a take. That's the best advice I can give you, which is hard in this industry to not have takes, but what happens? But no, this game was crazy. I wanted to read you something. Once upon a time. Let's go. Yeah. All right. So in quotations here. We're going to kick you in the teeth, all right? And when you punch us back, we're going to smile at you and when you knock us down we're going to get up and on the way up we're going to bite a kneecap off and we're going to stand up then it's going to take two more shots to knock us down and on the way up we're going to take your other kneecap and we're

going to get up and then it's going to take three shots to get us down and when we do we're going to take another punk out of you before long we're going to be the last one standing that's going to be our mentality was this game not that bro was this not it was this not the press conference Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Teams take on the identity of their head coach. I don't think we've ever seen a greater example of that than what's happening with the Detroit Lions. That was an insane game.

I have, so every week we do this kind of thing where I tell you some mind blowing stats the lines are doing right now. Oh, here it is. Mind blowing lion stats with Brett Whitefield. I got two. This is, this will bend your mind. Somebody make a jingle for this the week so we have some way. We can push a soundboard. Like an ESPN.

draft ticket. Yeah. All right. Jared Gough has thrown four plus interceptions in seven games in his career. Would you care to guess what his record is in those games? I'm sure it's very good. That's why you're bringing it up. Seven and oh.

Oh, well, what are we doing? Let's throw four picks in the first four drives and guarantee ourselves a win. For comparison sake, Tom Brady is 0 and 6. Was 0 in such games. Wow. I remember one of those. I know one of those. Yeah.

Since 1950, quarterbacks are, they've won 103 games out of 916. Jared Goss is seven of those. It's insane. It just doesn't happen. And I don't bring this up to say, go throw four picks a game, you win.

No, I think you should. I want to try it, especially in three weeks from now. My point, though, is you mentioned teams embody the mentality of their head coach. Well, they also are as strong as their quarterback. And I think it shows you just the mental toughness of Jared Gough where it's like things are not going his way. Now granted, he's had a lot worse four interception games of this one.

Like we've already said, a lot of these weren't really on him. But man, to throw five picks and then still stand in there and deliver big throws and big moments, the same Lipporta touchdown was huge. The Amunrah, what, fourth down play to get in field goal range. I mean, like, just a mental toughness to do that. Like, it's the team identity at this point. I think it starts with Dan. It's extended by Jared.

and the whole team is just resilient as heck man. And that's not to say the Texans didn't shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly, right? Like I almost nominated, you know, my guy, Domeco Ryan's and, you know, friend of the show, Bobby Slowick, because they ran Joe Mixing into a brick wall 28 times in this game. What are you doing? You have a 17 point lead or whatever it was, 15 plus point lead. And I get you want to run the clock, but it, Joe, what? What was that?

They weren't getting more like 1.8 yards per carry on design running back carries in this game. 1.8. The success rate against for the Lions defense was like, it was like 20%. The league average is 45. Like this was the most dominant run stopping performance I've ever seen. The Texans basically handed them opportunity after opportunity to get back in the game because they were unwilling to push the ball down field. No, I get it, C.J. Stroud.

They're afraid. They were afraid. They were afraid. I think D'Amico cracked in this game, to be honest with you. C.J. Stroud, after he threw that second pick looked gun-shy, brother. He was whole, like, Lions got some sacks in this game, despite C.J. holding the ball for a little bit. Well, typically those things correlate, obviously.

My point is, like, they weren't getting a lot of pressure. And especially early of the game. And after C.J. through that second pick, he just looked like he was not willing to take another risk at all, wasn't willing to push the ball down field. But yeah, hats off the line. defense played out of their mind the whole game outside of uh it was really the joe mixon screen pass that got out i think it was like a 44 yarder outside of that they were assignment sound challenged every throw schemed up pressure when it mattered stopped the run it was a it was a very

nice complimentary game where the defense bought the offense time offense played like crap first half and it was just like we're buying you time we're buying you time we're buying you time and eventually that lion's offense will wake up and that's what happened and they end up winning the game. Just what an awesome game, man. I couldn't sleep backwards. I literally worked through the night, Joe. Right. And that might not have been your best choice based on the conversation we had earlier. Yeah, Lions incredible. I want to ask you a question about the Lions, but I want to make a point about C.J. Stroud. This is that adversity moment for him, right? Like where he's got receivers down. He's really the last three of the last four games have been very poor for C.J.

Stroud. After it came, it came very hot for him, very successful to start his career. And you can tell he's feeling himself. I saw CJ Stroud more than any person in the world in the off season doing every interview in the world talking about, you know, answering questions like, hey, when did you know that you could really ball in the NFL? It's like, man, I don't know, do you played one season?

And I think he's obviously a bright young quarterback, but I think this is going to be a big defining moment for him in his second season to see what he's made of here. They're obviously in a great position in this division. They're two up on the Colts.

And again, just like the South in the NFC, they have the two wins already over the only team that has a chance to contend with them. So they're probably going to be okay in terms of being a top four seed. The reality is, is this a team that anyone's going to be afraid of in the postseason? The answer, that's probably not. Let me ask you this about Detroit. And I know that we pride ourselves in being a film and analytics driven podcast. But like, what's the vibes? What are the vibes in Detroit around this Lions team?

is I've known a lot of people from the Detroit area throughout my life. And a lot of people have relocated to where I live in Charlotte. And you can always feel a piece of Lions fans that are very resistant to believe that it's real, right? They're very resistant. Has this team done enough for them to be like, yeah, we're one of the best teams in the NFL? And yeah, I believe we really have a chance to go win a Super Bowl. Yeah, that number dwindles by the week, you know. I occasionally all tune into local radio just to kind of hear how they're spinning everything.

and, you know, they don't have a lot of nuance takes, but the callers calling in to say it's going to fall apart. They're slim to none at this point. Like, yeah, we're in. We know we're a good football team. Yeah, we know we're a good football team. You know, when Hutch went down and then there was like a, what, a four-week gap before they found a replacement for him, I think that was making some fans uneasy. Like, yeah, great team, probably going to go to the playoffs and make some noise, but can't win a Super Bowl with the current situation.

So since Adarius has come into the full. Oh, by the way, we should talk about Zadarius because there's some interesting things in this game with him. He didn't play. I know, I know. What do you mean? Since he's been, you know, acquired, I think those fans have settled down

their back to, all right, especially after this game, dude, the vibes are immaculate. Like, when everything is going wrong, you still find a way to win. That's the mark of a great team. We talk about this Kansas City all the time, right? Like, they've won three games this year. They have no business winning, but that's what great teams do.

They find a way to get it done. I would say the bill is, probably pulled out a couple of games this year that you didn't think they'd win as well, just with the way they were playing, right? So, yeah, I'd agree. So how many points are they going to beat the Jaguarer spot? I mean, I, oh, and I want to get this on tape. The Detroit Lions are going to get Doug Peterson fired.

This will be his last game coaching the Jacksonville Jaguars this week. The Lions will bludgeon them to death. They're going to use it as the reason to fire Doug Peterson. That's on record. You just heard it here first. 13. Right now the early spread is 13. So if the Lions only beat them by 13, does Doug Peterson still get fired?

I think ownership there has a tough choice to make. Like, do you, everybody knows Doug Peterson's. This is it for him. Do you let him go home and collect paychecks or do you make him go through the grind of coaching out the season? Yeah. I think we get up towards a 20 point range here for a win and then Peterson gets fired. My take on Jacksonville is I think this is the Bellichick spot. The defensive personnel works for him.

Mack Jones is there. Right back. But what other team's going to hand it over? What other team's going to hand it over that has a little bit of a pulse? You can go win the freaking AFC South next year, right? So you think, so their GM, you think he's getting fired too? They should. Yeah, everybody's got to go, man.

Why am I saying right now? Trent Balke. Trump Alki. Mr. Classic scouting. If you're the straight scouts, he's a straight scouts. You've been through what you've been through with Jacksonville, hand it over to Bill. There's no other team would it make sense to me. None. Yeah.

Not going to Dallas. You can't go to Dallas, right? No. Work with Jerry. I think that'd be very tough. I mean, Jerry's already stated that they weren't interested in that, right? I feel like he did. I don't see it.

I want to make a point on Zadarius Smith. You watched the game live, I'm assuming. Did you see Zadarius on the sideline? He's into it, man. Bro. He's already a line. He was coaching his little behind off, man. And he even took some victory laps at the end of the game.

In the post game, the interview, he went up to the desk, the son of that football desk and did an interview with like Dungee and those guys. And they asked him about the coaching. And he said, yeah, man, I, you know, I saw some things that they were doing wrong. I fixed it. And then they started sacking the quarterback. That's what he said. Yeah, it's going to be just fine, huh?

Bro's already taking credit for fixing the Lions pass rush. Didn't even play. That's hilarious. But yeah, he fits it. He's already decked out and all the Lions gear. Just super excited. I think vibes are good. Vives are good, you know. Vives are all time high.

Oh, and Jamo, I got to say, Jameson Williams probably played his best game as a pro. You know, we've always known Jamo has that run, run away from your speed, crossing routes, go balls, you know, a big play, explosive guy. what he did in this game to become, you know, they were basically bracketing Amman Ra the whole game, even some cover one double on Amin Ra where it's like they're just committing two bodies to him every play. What he did in this game when it mattered, when golf needed when the ovens needed a first down on third down, like third and long, I think third and 19 he caught a 24-yard dig route where he's just getting absolutely

molly-wapped by his safety coming over, holds onto the ball. He had three catches like that in this game, Joe. And it really shows you the trust he's built with Goff and his transition from just explosive playmaker to actual NFL receiver. I think this is a really nice game. If they didn't have him back, I don't think they win this game, to be honest. He had three crucial first downs in this game. Adam has wide receiver one in 2022. So this has been a good situation here for me and that winding up being true.

Let's close on this. the Colts continue to be committed to Joe Flacco over Anthony Richardson. They're now 0 and 2 with Joe Flacco. He threw three interceptions, had a strip sack as well against the bills. What are we doing, man? What is the point of all of this? And then you think about what Kenny Moore said. You hear Kenny Moore's comments about Shane Stuyken or not saying about the Colts.

He's like, we have effort issues. People aren't trying their hardest. Like people aren't putting in the work. he's not surprised by the results they're getting like kind of put put everyone on blast here and Quentin Nelson was asked about it as a follow-up and just said look yeah I mean Kenny spoke from his heart and I do think there's some truth to what he's saying like what's going on here with the Colts and why are we wasting our time with Joe Flacco so Joe Flacko now has what six turnovers in two weeks right six how unsurprising is that though even last year when he was

on the four and one stretch with the Browns nothing was sustainable about it we saw the pumpkin that he is in the playoffs right like joe i was told that i was told that he was going to clean things up and be a better quarterback and give him a better chance to win football games than anthony richardson but he's got six turnovers in two games i mean i i don't know what else there is to say this whole situation so frustrating for me not just because i really like anthony ritchison i just but like the last two games he's 25th and and catchable ball rate and accuracy's been terrible this year. 25th and adjust the completion percentage.

He looks like Anthony Richardson, except he's a pumpkin. Yeah. It's pointless. They're not getting a boost by playing him. And the thing that's really frustrating is, what did, what did you think Anthony Richardson was when you drafted him at fourth overall? Like, what did you think he was? Did you not think he was a guy?

You had to scheme it up for. Did you not think he was a guy? You'd have to really lean into that running ability. Well, what did Shane Steichen was Philip Rivers, right? Wasn't that like the guy he was with? You know what I mean? Also, Jalen Hertz. Right.

That's true. That's true. Yeah. And we're seeing, he's trying to coach Richardson like he's Philip Rivers and not Jalen Hertz. That's the part that's weird. I don't get any of it. It's so frustrating.

It almost feels like it can't be a stiking thing. This has to be an Ursa mandate. And then you. I want to be careful not to, to have like, speak out of both sides of our, of our mouth here. We just went through with this monologue about Caleb Williams and how he's an outside of structure player and he has to be able to pull. play with Instructure and maybe he shouldn't have played right away. Like, is that,

is that the benefit here for an Anthony Richardson where you kind of have the same types of questions or is it just a matter of the guy's under rep and he has to play anyways? So, oh, this is, this is great. This is a great question. So for Richardson, this is going to sound crazy, but he is better playing with Instructure right now than Caleb Williams is. Richardson's bigger deficiency is the throw-for-throw accuracy.

But as far as like, I'm going to stand in the pocket, I'm going to get through reads, and I'm going to stick in the pocket and try to run the play the way it's designed, Richardson is light years ahead of Caleb Williams. That's why one of the reasons I loved Richardson as my favorite prospect in his draft class. But because of the accuracy deficiencies, Joe, you have to be willing to lean into the run game component of Richardson, which I'm not saying creative playmaking ability. I'm saying actual designed quarterback run stuff.

That's why you drafted him. You don't draft a 6-5, 250-pound Superman-looking muscle freak that runs a 4-4-40 to drop back and pass 30 times in a game. That's just not why you drafted him. And so, yeah, I agree. We're not going to talk out of both sides of our mouth. Richardson has to develop his arm. But in the meantime, while he's working on that, you got to lean into that run game. The way, like early career Lamar Jackson, early career.

an early career Jalen hurts. I'm not sure why we're not doing this. Because he kept on getting hurt. He kept on getting hurt. It was, first of all, the play he got hurt on this year wasn't even a scramble. He got hit in the pocket, which is far worse than getting hit when you're running and have momentum on your side, by the way. The play he got hurt on last year, he was diving into the end zone and took a helmet

to helmet shot that concussed him and hurt his shoulder. These are freak plays. If you're scared of him getting hurt, you should have never drafted a quarterback that runs for a living. I don't disagree with you. I'm trying to get inside the mind of the Colts and figure out why things are happening the way they're happening. I just know this. If you take Richardson's ability to

run the ball, he's not a top 10 pick in the NFL. And that's coming from a guy who loves him. So I don't know, I don't know what math they're doing to say, oh, we can make this work without having him be a running quarterback. You can't right now. Maybe five years from now. Like Lamar Jackson doesn't have to be a running

quarterback, right? Like he's really developed his arm, his accuracy. Josh Allen, A better example. I would say Josh Allen and Richardson have a lot of similarities. Alan was an erratic passer first couple years. And there's stretches now even where he still deals with that from time to time. But man, like the accuracy's there now. It came along.

But in the meantime, they got to run. QB power, GT counter bash, read option on every play. They have to do it or else it's not going to work. And they have to get Flacco back on the freaking bench. So what you're saying to me is that Todd Monkens, a new head coach of the Indianapolis Colts. That would be a great fit for, for Richardson. Right. With Jonathan Taylor.

Great call. Great call. Oh, what are we doing? Let's do it now. Let's do it now. Don't even have to play the rest of the season. Let's get Belichick to the Jaguars, Todd Mock into the Colts. Well, obviously, we'll have those conversations when they're more appropriate. And who knows, maybe Shane Steichen will continue. I'm not sure if, you know, the Colts have been really loyal to Chris Ballard.

I'm not necessarily sure why. We'll see, man. We shall see. All right, dude, let's get out of here. We good? We're going to do it? We're good. We're good.

All right. Remember, folks, no matter what develops, we will always be your first read. Thank you for listening. See you on Thursday. We are out.