Fantasy Football Daily - Champs and Chumps Divisional Round Review + Coaching Carousel Discussion | NFL First Read

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down "Champs and Chumps Division Review + Coaching Carousel Discussion." Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Check out The Waiver Wire - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/the-waiver-wire-week-5#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Try them now and have a smooth night. First read, we are your first read, the film and analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of Lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the C-O of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points, Data Suite. Let's get after it. Oh, Joe, Joe, Joe. Division round is over.

I had, you know, a good 36-hour morning session, Joe, where I just sat quietly, ignored my wife and kids. I'm kidding. I didn't do that, but it was rough. It was a rough go. And I finally turned the corner sometime yesterday. And then I got news that Ben Johnson had left the Detroit Lions for the Chicago Bears. an indivision rival.

And so I was back to being angry. Oh, man. I want to jump right into champs and chumps, if you don't mind. Of course. Welcome, Brett. It's good to be with you today. Thank you.

Good to be with you. Oh, my chump of the week, Joe Marino, is the Ben Johnson. And here's the thing, man. I like that it happened this way. I like that he took the route of villainy. You know, after that performance on Saturday where you put, you know,

the highest leverage moment of the game. game in the hands of someone who has the decision-making acumen of a toddler and allowing James and Williams to throw a pass. Yeah, I'm cool with this. Go take your head coaching job. Be turn, go full villain. Now I don't have to root for you. You're a Chicago bear and you're dead to me, Ben. And for that, you are my chump of the week. What an atrocious game plan, Joe. Are you, are we serious right now? Am I supposed to be surprised that this guy has, um, poor decision-making tendencies when he just a year ago

turned his nose up at the Washington commander's job with Jaden Daniels and a full new staff, a full new front office, to then go work for Caleb Williams? Woo! Joe, are we surprised this guy

has decision-making issues? I'm not. Brett Whitefield. I guess that is a good way for it to end, right? It is. It is. Because it had been hard otherwise. right? Like it had been hard to lose him and feel about feel like there was so much

opportunity to continue evolving and growing together. But for it to be that performance into going to Chicago and feeling like all of the things that you felt were important for Ben Johnson to actually take a job as he's been very, very selective. Now you have a villain. Now you have a villain. And we'll talk more about Ben Johnson and some of the other coaching carousel moves later on today. But well deserved. And it's funny, man, you had two great layers to your little monologue there, one talking about the decision making piece and kind of casting shade at not taking the commander's job. And then letting Jameson Williams throw that throw, make that throw and, you know, calling him a toddler. I think that was pretty evident on his touchdown run.

What were those antics, dude? Like, that was not the time, dude. That was not the time. Joe, I love Jameson Williams. I think the thing is, though, let him do what he does well. Why are we, I mean, we know the guy's not a good decision maker. Look at repeated off-field stuff. Now, none of it's super serious, but it's all elementary in nature.

You're going to put the ball in his hands with a high-levered decision like that. And the crucial part of that game, just make it make sense. sense, man. It's too cute. And you, you credit to you, Joe, you've been skeptical of Ben the whole time. And I don't think you think he's a bad offensive corner or anything like that, but you've been skeptical of like every second and 10 we're throwing bond. It happened twice in this game. Yeah. And of course, he got away with it on the third and three. Remember this? The deep shot to Amon Ross South Brown. It's like, oh, boy, that's all he needed. Yeah. Was for that to work. And I, dude, I love the default aggressive mindset that Dan Campbell has, but I felt like at times it made

been lazy because it was like oh second and 10 we're going to go for it on fourth down anyways i'll just throw a bomb here or third and three just dial up a bomb like it's it's easy yeah and it worked a lot but there's times it didn't that the third and dude the turning point of the game i i wanted to save some of this for the actual review talk i'll just i'll leave it here the turning point of the game was the lines are up seven to three they had the ball marching into washington territory they're on the 17 yard line you have a third and one and ben goes empty set you know drop back pass supposed to be kind of quick game-ish. Didn't work out that way because St. Brown fell down on the route.

Goff takes a sack, fumbles, because he couldn't throw the ball when he wanted to because St. Brown fell. But with the way the commanders stop the run, or I should say lack stopping the run, and the way you were running the ball. Gibbs was literally, I mean, he was gashing them for 10 yards at a time at that point in the game.

Why did, I don't understand this need to go quick game on third and one from empty. When that's probably what the commanders defend well rather than just run it down their throat man i i really didn't i mean there were there were a couple moments in that game um and uh you know i also want to you know real quick sorry i'm going to chump lions fans too there's a lot of gatekeeping lions fans on on twitter right now saying you're not allowed to be upset that ben you you don't you can't turn the villain card in for him because he went to chicago he did so much stop that this is freaking football man it's a it's a violent sport i don't need

to I don't need to worship at the feet of Ben Johnson's altar every day from now until eternity because he was a good offensive coordinator for the Lions. Screw that. He went to a division rival, and I hate him for it. Wow. If he went to the Raiders, do we feel the same or is a lot of this because he went to the Bears? It's the way it ended plus going to the Bears.

Yeah, that's why I said I like it this way. Because if he goes to the Raiders, far away, different conference, different division, you know, underdogs because he's the way that. division stacked up right now. I probably still rooting for him and it hurts worse that he left. But because he did it this way, it's great. I don't ever have to root for him another day of my life. Bye. And you know what, Joe, in two years when Caleb Williams gets him fired, he's going to come begging for a job with Dan Campbell again and, you know, maybe they'll turn their nose up at him. Sorry, buddy. We're not interested. All right. Let's get to my champ of the week.

Let's get a little positive vibes going here. Yeah, sorry. The first read podcast. My champion of the week, Brett Whitefield. Spencer Brown. Bill's right tackle number 79. Folks, you want to have a good time? Go watch that Bill's offensive tape. Watch the right tackle. Just watch the right tackle.

The bills tagged Baltimore in a winning effort for 147 yards, rushing. That's the most anyone's got on Baltimore all season long. 16 zone runs, 50% success rate, 16 gap runs, 69% success rate, according to the fantasy points data suite for the Buffalo Bills rushing offense. Those are well above Baltimore season averages defending the run. And why was this made possible Spencer Freaking Brown? One of the best run blocking performances you'll see. One of the best past blocking performances you'll see.

But the run game is where you can really, really enjoy things with his ability to feed block, with his ability to like combo and get to the second level. There were so many reps where the bills have. explosive runs and Spencer's taking care of two, three dudes on any given play, like secure the first level, get to the second level, seal off Roquan Smith and, you know, you got yards. He was absolutely essential to the bill's recipe. And he has been all season long, the ascension for Spencer Brown from, you know, Tulsi third round draft pick with, I mean, he has an RAS score of a tent. I mean, unbelievable size and athleticism.

comes out of northern Iowa as a guy that played eight-man football in high school, a tight end, only plays two seasons at right tackle. This is the last season because it's canceled for COVID, goes into the NFL as a third round pick. He starts in week four. He struggles for about a year and a half. A boy, does he turn the corner and the last two years, and especially this year, he has ascended into the upper echelon of right tackles in the NFL,

and he put on a show against the Baltimore Ravens. and the Ravens losing effort in the divisional round, getting bounced, goodbye, silenced, audios, the bills are out of the AFC championship, due enlarge to that right tackle number 79, Spencer Brown. I'm so happy for you guys, man. That was such a good performance. Spencer Brown is a dog.

I had multiple people text me during that game. Hey, like they're not super, they don't follow the NFL like we do. I'm talking loose friends and family. Like, hey, who's this right tackle for the bills? That guy's insane. I was like, yeah. Yeah, that guy is a dog tone setter. Him and Trevor Penning on the same offensive line in college.

It's crazy, right? Yeah, super crazy. Sometimes, you got some really big time, like, FCS in lower levels of competition coming into the NFL and putting some good offensive linemen in there. Look at Quinn Miners, what he's doing in Denver. Yeah. I mean, these guys are dogs, man.

You're a dog. You're a dog. Yeah, it's typically been the interior guys from the FCS level, but to get two tackled, I mean, depending he had a good year too, especially considering where he was coming from. But yeah, Spencer Brown, man, what a stud. It's cool.

It's cool to see it. Enjoyed that. Actually, I really liked that the bills were able to run the ball without really needing it from Josh Allen. I mean, Josh still had his carries. A lot of them were scrambles. Yeah. I think he only had, what, 20 yards or something?

Yeah, 10 rushes were 20 yards. I thought Baltimore will get to it, but I thought Baltimore did a good job defending the quarterback run. And I thought Tavian Robinson was, Tavius Robinson was so good, 95 there. Edge player defending the run, like big time earned my respect from studying the tape type guy. I love that when you're watching a game and you're just like,

you like kind of let the talent come to you and you're like, oh man, this guy would repeatedly setting firm edges, getting off blocks, good backside pursuit. So hat tip to Tadius Robinson. Heck yeah. All right. Hey, Brett, hold on a second. Yep.

Coming up next. my chump, your champ, and then after that we'll get into some big picture conversation from the divisional round losing teams. So folks, be sure to stick with us. You and Santa? Best rappers out there.

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Just going to keep it simple. Jaden Daniels. Congrats, man. You're a rookie. You've won two playoff games already. You're building a legendary resume already. And we've spent a ton of time recently talking commanders. Ultimately, I think, you know, Jaden just looks so...

I mean, you hear about the poise. And honestly, that's what it is. So many things he does well, but I think the... The thing that stands out is his heart rate probably doesn't ever get above, like, 60. I mean, it's just like, it's like a dead body back there in a good way. You know what I mean? Like, he's just cold as ice.

I love it. Really impressive. I thought in this game specifically, he knew where the lines were weak, and he just made them pay for over and over and over. Just took what was there. Never, never pushed. Didn't really feel like he ever forced anything. The one time where you did was that bombed to Diamie Brown.

And when he let that go, I thought it was a pick. Kirby had leverage. Kirby Joseph, that'd have. is and uh nope the ball was literally you couldn't throw it better than he threw it and it was like a 50 yard game so yeah he had another wasn't there a drop right on he had another deep shot where it was the ball was dropped i thought by brad as well was it terry yeah i thought it was a dot yeah absolute dot yeah um that's the thing he took what the defense gave him and then when it was time to make a play he wouldn't made a play just absolute what an absolute stud honestly yeah what an interesting

angle here that I just thought of with Jaden Daniels, and I want to lump Bo Nix into this conversation. It's interesting that both of those guys started their college career somewhere else. It was shaky, man. Like these guys, if you would have said four years ago that Jaden Daniels and Bo Nicks were going to be starting playoff games, I mean, come on, you'd be laughed out of town. But I think there's something to say, to be said for going through some adversity, right? I mean, like, it wasn't always perfect for these dudes. They had to scratch and claw and figure it out and improve.

and they came into the NFL battle tested. And I'm not surprised that both of those guys show a lot of poise. And we're able to step into situations where, I mean, neither team has had success in a long time. The Broncos had a nine-year playoff drought. I mean, Washington, I don't need to really elaborate on that. These guys come in and they immediately change things around. So that's an interesting layer to kind of evaluating prospects.

Think about a guy like Trevor Lawrence. Everything's been on a platter for that guy's whole life, man. Great high school player goes to college, national championship. everything's easy, right? I mean, never has to go through anything. And he goes to the Jaguars and, okay, well, things get a little bit shaky at times. So I think there's something to be said, man, for being battle tested, going through stuff, figuring it out and coming out on the other side.

And I think that's a big part of the story for Bo Nix and especially Jaden Daniels. So add to that, dude. So going to multiple teams in college, they had to learn multiple systems. I think that's valuable, especially in an era where it seems like quarterbacks are coming into the NFL, dumber than they ever have. I mean, football. Sure. Right. Boy, you're not wrong. Right. And so then on top of that, you know, we talk about it all the time on the show, like quarterback is the one position where development could be 15 years long. Like we've talked Matt Stafford. He's still getting better at age 35. Like, so I think in the past, people have turned their nose up at the older quarterback. Like,

oh, there's not a lot of upside here, right? Because he's 23 or 24. Who cares? Actually, he's probably, you know, more ready to play than. any year 20, 21 year old guys. So I think there's, the community is going to have to change the way they evaluate these guys. It seems like, I mean, Brock Purdy's another one. Dude started for four years in college.

Now it didn't have the two teams, and it wasn't a fifth year senior situation, but he played a lot of freaking football before he got to the NFL. And then shockingly came in and was ready for it. I mean, he's seen everything at that point. So I think there's something to be said about that for sure, Joe. Good point. My chump of the week, Brett Whitefield.

I'll take very, very, very low-hanging fruit. And he's not my chump. He's actually my champ, okay? But he's honestly a chump in relative to what he did for his team. It's Mark Andrews. It's Mark Andrews, a tight end for the Baltimore Rams. This is the chump of the weekend, my guy. I mean, three huge blunders.

People forget about the earlier drop in the game that he had. But I mean, the first blunder, 24 to 19 ball game, Ravens are trailing, eight minutes left in the fourth quarter. They're driving. They're moving the ball. They moved the ball all second half long. They're getting ready to take the lead. He's wide open in the middle of the field.

Catches the ball to plus 44 to convert a second and 11. Terrell Bernard comes in with a right hook. Bumble, recovered. Unbelievable swing in that game. You go from 24 to 19 getting ready to take the lead to now you're down eight. I mean, awful. And then for all the mistakes that Baltimore made throughout the game, They get the ball at the 12, 88 yards to go to tie the thing up.

Lamar leads them down the field. The fields are raced in eight plays, really in four. It went from second and eight from the 26 to a touchdown four plays later. Like it erased. You got to get a two-point conversion to tie the game. Wide open, Mark Andrews, out leverages Buffalo's defense in the bread basket, and he drops the ball. Come on, man.

And it's sad because Mark Andrews has been a legendary raver. There's no doubt. But for all that Baltimore overcame to be in position to tie that game, and Mark Andrews drops the ball, almost the ball, chump of the week. You must not follow Dan Arlofsky on Twitter. I don't pay attention to a lot of that stuff, man. I just don't. He said that if you blame Mark Andrews to the loss, you're a loser.

I didn't blame him for the loss. I think he's a chump of the week. Yeah, I don't. there's a lot that goes into that loss, but. Yeah, there was a lot. Lamar didn't play. No, he didn't, but they overcame so much. And the guy that at the end, you're talking to the last eight minutes of the game.

Yeah. I have those two plays? Yeah, dude. I mean, the drop for the two point was, that's like, that's like having a free throw in the NBA with time expired. And all you have to do is make one of two free throws to tie it to send it to overtime. And you break both of them. Like that's, that's what that is, basically.

It was a layup. It was a layup. Yeah, dude, I, like, I almost feel like it's harder to make those free throws, and it would be to just make that catch. True. And even notice Mark Andrews catching technique? He's a clapper, bro. This has been an issue for him for a while, actually.

Gabe Davis is a clapper, too. Especially when he's open. He claps at it. If he's, if it's, like, contested and he's got to go do something crazy, it's like all of a sudden he catches the ball normally. It's so weird. I, uh, I can't remember who. pointed this out to me. Now I'm going to notice that for the rest of my life. Terry McLaurin does the same

thing too. He's a clapper. But it's, they're like the only two guys in history that have had great careers being clappers. Um, anyways, should we move on? We should move on, Brett Whitefield. We'll start focusing in on these divisional round losers. And like we did last week, we want to highlight some of the main issues that got them eliminated. The saying goes, your strengths get you to the playoffs, your weaknesses get you eliminated. I hear GMs all the time saying, hey, in an elimination game and the playoffs, you really kind of find out what your issues are. So that's what we want to focus in here, focus in on here when it comes to the Texans

and the Lions and the Rams and the Ravens. I guess we should just go in order the way the games were played. Let's do it. Texans chiefs got things started off Kansas City, 23 to 14 winners. They advanced the AFC championship game for the Air Force. head invitation. All right, seven years in a row, six times they've hosted it.

The Texans had their chances, Brett Whitefield. But when you think about the reason Houston's season is over, what are some of those leading factors for you? It's the combo of poor offensive line play and C.J. Stroud holding the ball way too long, mixes like oil and water.

You can't have both. It just doesn't work. And Stroud played decently in this game, actually minus the holding the ball forever and take he took some unnecessary sacks is what i'm trying to say and then the o line let him down a bunch as well it just you can't have a quarterback playing behind a bad offensive line that wants to hold the ball like that it just doesn't maybe with lamar or josh allen it works because those guys can can cover up a lot of a lot of sin there but shroud's not of that breed you know what i thought that would that stood out to me like what did he take nine sacks in this

game. It felt like it literally felt like every other drop back. I know it wasn't, but it was, it was eight, nine sacks for sure. Yeah, it was eight. And this was against a team that struggled to get after the passer the entire season, Joe. We've talked about it. You know, Christmas wish list. We wanted the chiefs to get a pass rusher or a corner. I mean, this was a big issue. George Carloftus looked like Aidan Hutchinson. And he's been, he's been a massive disappointment for them. So, I mean, it was wild to me. Yeah, it's that combination of like Dalton Schultz on the edge was getting cooked for sacks. And then Blake Fisher at right tackle.

It was an unsurious effort in this game. And they've, it's funny because they move Titus Howard around so much, you know, he winds up playing a lot of left guard. And I get it, dude, like, you need help there too. But I thought it was more important probably for them to get the right tackle spot. So they probably should have kept them there. Yeah. And Shaq Mason's trying to play hurt. Yeah, the offensive line.

was an issue, but like you said, it's the combination of both of those things. You know, it's not just that the offensive line that struggles. It's CJ doesn't navigate it well at all. And I think, I guess I'm happy, I think throughout this season, people are learning a lot about sacks and how they're very much a quarterback stat. It's not just offensive line related. As you watched players like Caleb Williams or CJ Stroud or Jalen Hertz and Sam Darnold, you know, this stuff is pretty obvious.

that it's not just an offensive line thing. And so that's, that's been a good consequence, I think, of this season. I think people are understanding that. I also think you look at Houston and I'm sure Texans fans are very much wondering what this looks like if they do have Stefan Diggs and Tank Dell, right? So part of your ability to play more within rhythm is having your separators available, right? And that's kind of what Diggs and Tank Dell are to go with, you know, Nico Collins and the big play threat and his ability to just be a power forward at times.

That whole complement of weapons was missing and you can absolutely feel it. So it's like all of that baked together led to an offense that down the stretch felt very difficult to watch. It felt like everything was hard for them. And whenever it was good, it kind of felt fluky. So I would like to layer in the wide receiver component. And it's interesting because they tore up that digs deal. He was in gear one of a four-year $96 million deal.

and then they tore it up and it winds up being a one-year deal. They give up a second round pick. I mean, what's going on here? It certainly feels like Diggs' entire effort was to kind of angle and put himself in a position to have options right now. And that's certainly complicated because he's coming off of a torn ACL north of 30. So lots of kind of figure out there. But I would think the receiver component's important as well.

Yeah, that's true. You know another component? And this would have been my chunk of the week had I not. got Ben Johnson's Bobby Sloick. Oh, he's been so bad. The Texans got absolutely Bobby Sloick in that game. I just spent a lot of time blaming the O-Line and Stroud for a lot of the sacks. But how many times did we get Dalton Schultz and in some combo of Mixon and Damien Pierce,

you know, blocking a good edge defender? They had Chris Jones by themselves multiple times. And he kept doing it too, Joe. That was why was that the go-to protection? We couldn't come up with something else to stop that guy. Brett, is it time to have a conversation about the Shanahan offenses? It's bedtime. Where are they?

They're nowhere to be found right now, right? We're in the conference championship. These offenses have infused the NFL. And I think the world's caught up. Well, you got me. Well, McVeigh lost, I guess. Yeah, he lost, but it's all. I would say that McVeigh needs to become more multiple with his personnel groupings.

and figure out his edge blocking as well. I see the same things in Miami. It's like you want to be a wide zone rush offense. You don't have perimeter blockers. Like you've got to win the edge and they don't have a plan to do it. They think that their schemes the end all be like you got to get some players, man. Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah. I think I think the proofs in the pudding that you these offenses are not winning right now. They're not advancing to the degree. I think that phase is over. And I think obviously you're not really seeing a lot of. those guys again in the running for these jobs i mean bobby sloak still getting interviews i don't know yeah but leum call too but again yeah but don't you Liam feels like he's he's a little bit different though you know like he's got his own flavor on this stuff so he was he was only in

la for what two years yeah he's he's he's very he's has as much of a his own legacy to me is you know it's it's kind of like is mike rable part of the uh the patriot tree you know what i I mean like, never goes there. Yeah, that's why I kind of look at Liam Cohen in some ways like that. And it's a shame is defensively, Houston really feels like they've become pretty solid on that side of the football. I think they just need to kind of gel a little bit.

I mean, certainly I think maybe they're a little few personal upgrades defensively. That felt like that had a good enough unit for sure. Yeah, that defense should be a problem going forward. Yeah. But, yeah. Can you get slow to though. You know, we've got to figure that out.

Yeah, you can't. Chiefs are advancing. They're hosting the bills. We'll talk more about that on the Thursday episode. All right. So you get done watching Chiefs and Texans. Do you have any comments here about the officiating? And like even Troy Eggman was pretty fired up.

Yeah. I mean, everyone's talking about it. So I don't want to spend a ton of time. But dude, yeah, it's bad, man. But the thing is I watched four games this weekend. It was bad in all four games. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. Is it, I'm trying to look at

this with without like the bias component, right? Because obviously I'm not rooting for the chiefs. Come on. But is, is there something that exists with like a player of the status of Patrick Mahomes? And then like it is very much like people you, when you have a lot of success, like you do become a villain and people start not liking Mahomes and the chiefs.

Is this simply a matter of that? And like Mahomes is the face of the NFL. So there is like some extra protections that exist with him. Or is there, I mean, he's kind of toying with defenders at times as well. well, it's like he also kind of knows that as well. Like I'm seeing this clearly. Like my,

my bias is not creeping in. It's, it's kind of ridiculous, right? Oh, it's ridiculous. He definitely gets some, some extra protection. He definitely knows how to push the boundaries of the rules.

He knows what looks bad and what doesn't. The, like the slide situation. That one was tough for me. Everyone lost her mind over that, the slide where two Texans go flying over him and hit each other. Yeah. Like Patrick was literally.

printing at the big guy there, the detackle and then decides to slide last second. So even if that tackle makes contact, which he didn't, by the way, but even if he does, I don't know that I love that being a penalty. Yeah, that was the one I took the least exception with. It's the passinger, it's the roughing the passer and it's intentionally slowing down on the sideline to invite a hit and then, you know. They didn't call that one, right? They didn't call it, but you could see the intent of what Pat was trying to do.

He was pretty clear there. Same with the late slides. He does the same thing. Yeah. Like that late slide, bro, he literally cut back against the grain to cut that upfield right at two defenders and then slides late and it gets the flag.

And they didn't even touch him. Now, in real time, that looks bad. Yeah, walloped. Yeah. So I get thrown the flag.

It's almost, you wish maybe they could do the, you know, the live review check or whatever. What do they call that? Replay assist. And nobody understands it, right?

Nobody knows when it, when it, you can use it. Why? It's, it seems. It seems super unfair. It's like, oh, you just save that coach a challenge and then. Right. What about the third quarter when now the other coach has to use a challenge and potentially burn it?

I don't just want the calls to be right, man. That's all anybody wants. That's all we want. Exactly. And I get, you don't want to bog the whole game down with reviews. But come on. Some of these need to be reviewable, I think. Right.

Okay. We got a little bit of an appetizer for the Lions conversation, but we're going to go fully into it here on the other side of it, folks. Be sure to stick with us. All right, Brett, it's time. Washington 45, Detroit 31. This has been a tough loss, obviously, for Detroit. I think nationally we can feel the sadness coming out of the Motor City.

You and I even had a candid conversation on Sunday afternoon. And like, very much, like we tried to, we have a thing, like, don't do the podcast before the podcast. So we kind of fight some of that. But like, I mean, you were even working through some stuff. I think we all kind of feel some type of sadness. And it's offset a little bit if you're not a Lions fan by kind of being excited for Washington and the turnaround there and how easy they've become to root for. But here we sit at a 15 and 15 and two Lions team that overcame all that they did.

They get the one seat. They host Washington. They're nine and a half point home favorites. And they lose by multiple touchdowns. How do we get here? And what are the big concerns that that really have to be addressed? So when I step back now, what, two, three days later, I see this very clearly. I didn't in the moment and I didn't leading up to the game.

But dude, I don't know. I think what happens is you lose an Aden Hutchinson in week five. Then you lose in Aline McNeil. And then by the time you get to week 18, you've started 30 different players on defense. But it never slowed you down. You won 15 games despite that. it created this weird false narrative in your head that well i guess it doesn't matter this team's it's almost like desks that we literally joked that it was destiny right on the show

yeah felt like it actually felt like destiny because they started 30 i don't know if the average person realizes how insane that sounds they started 30 different players on defense this season that has never been done before um and so you start to feel like you you're invincible. And I think going into that game, it was like, man, this is, this, yeah, it's destiny. They should beat the commanders easily. It's their defense is fine because they've overcome all this. And the reality is, no, the defense is not fine. It was being held together by tape and games against San Darnold, you know, and I think they got exposed badly. The play speed, you just look at the play speed on defense in that game. They got RPO to death. I, I,

this is, I'm just throwing random numbers out. but like from watching it, it felt like the 20 of the first 25 plays Washington ran were RPAs. And they just gassed you with them at every single turn. And the play speed was so slow. Other than Ainselone and Campbell, everyone else though, the D-Line was horrific. Morris Norris played in this game, Joe. I don't know who that is. I'm a Lions fan.

I don't know who Morris Norris is. I remember hearing his name in camp. I know that he tagged down to the practice squad for a little while. He's playing 30 plus snaps in this game. who was morris norris dude it was rough the amic robertson injury at the beginning too was just like that was the icing on the cake it was like we can't have nice things every player that's bawling out for the lines has gotten hurt so i i think sitting back and just reviewing it's it was obvious this was going to happen and you know what i'm i'm almost glad it happened this week and it was somewhat a merciful loss because the lines

were still competitive in the game at times you know you have the turnovers too golf did not play a great game, obviously. Bad, bad, bad game for him, probably his worst game of the season by far. Not a good time to do that. But in the end, it doesn't matter, right? Because I think I said this to you on the phone, it wouldn't matter if golfed through four or ten interceptions. The defense got one stop the entire game. One stop. And so I forgot where the end point was where I was going for the end point here. But, oh, I liked it that happened this way. It was a merciful loss. The lines competed. They still had a chance kind of in the fourth quarter late. But like, an outside chance, but a chance.

I think if they accidentally won that game and then go play Philly this week, I think they get exposed even worse. That O line against the Lions D line would have been ugly, Joe. It would have been a bloodbath. And I don't think that would have been a very merciful loss. We're talking 35 to 6, 35 to 7, something like that. I've struggled to reconcile Detroit's defense, and let me explain. I certainly am fully aware of all the injuries.

And so my initial reaction was wondering if Aaron Glenn was just like way too stubborn with who he is. And they love to Blitz. They love to play man coverage. They love to play three linebackers. Those are choices. They're unique choices compared to the rest of the way the NFL plays defense. And I thought to myself, as the injuries piled up, was it smart to continue staying committed to that? And I think you can easily say, no, you have to adjust, but also what do you want to do?

Like you're not, you had to get pressure. You have to get pressure. And you didn't have Aden, which is obviously a huge part of that recipe. You can't just play in your heels and play zone coverage and allow zones to become soft because you don't get any pressure. You still had some dudes there in the back seven there to play. I found it to be an in enviable spot because on one. hand you want to help your players, but you still need to do something to be disruptive. And I, it became hard to reconcile, but also it felt damned if you do, damned if you don't. It really did.

But I still kind of come back to was he just too stubborn and type of defense that they wanted to be and they needed to adjust a little bit. It was very obvious in that game that Jaden knew exactly where to go with the football. It wasn't hard to figure out. Replace the blitz with the ball. Completions short, right? And then you kind of figure out where your matchups are down the field when they play. man, it's not hard to figure out, not taking anything away from Jane Daniels, but I'm very much left palms in the air wondering, like, what was Aaron Glenn supposed to do? But I think big picture wise, I do think they got to find some personnel upgrades,

particularly, I mean, they need Aiden back, but I think giving him a counterpart to rush. Zadarius. And he gets to stick around. So that'll be good. He's aging, right? So hopefully there's a lot more in the tank there, at least for next season. I mean, it's going to be interesting what happens with interior offensive line. I think, you know, Glasgow is very much upgradable,

but Christian Mahogany certainly balled out in that game. You know, is he going to be an answer? Is Zeitler's on a one-year deal? So I think you've got to stabilize whatever your plan is on that interior offensive line. I think we might need another guy for this defensive line. And then probably another receiver, if you can find one. I like the idea of, you know, St. Brown, Jamo, Caley, for Raymond, but is the Tim Patrick role?

Can we, I think Tim Patrick was an admirable player, but I think he's certainly upgradable. So that's kind of stuff that stands out to me. and then I would also just find ways to give the ball to Jamir Gibbs on every single play. I think he's a top 10, I don't, maybe even top. Like in terms of just, like when I think about how I feel going up against certain skill players, Jamir Gibbs is one of those guys that I just, a lot of concern if I have to play against him. He's high on the list of scary offensive skill players.

Yeah, the receiver thing, I don't think the talent receiver ever hurt them this season, not once even. Tim Patrick was fine. Killeef Raymond's a good compliment to Patrick as well and that kind of combo wide receiver three-roll. So I think if they bring Patrick back, I'm totally fine with that. If they want to draft a young player to develop as well, also fine with that.

I just, I think it's a low priority. I think health is a big thing. Joe, I actually went through and I ranked the roster, one through 53. They have 20 of the top 22 guys under contract for the next year or plus, some of them three, four, five years. So I think that's really promising.

The story's not over for this Lions team. Like the windows is as wide open as ever. They have 67 million in Cabspace. They have, they're probably going to get a compensatory draft pick for Aaron Glenn leaving, which is another third rounder, which they don't have a third rounder, so that lines up great. Point being is like, I think they're ready to rock. They just need health. This is one of the craziest fluky seasons I've ever seen from a health standpoint.

even in this game joe amic robertson leaves the second play of the game brian branch your probably your best remaining player leaves um if you melafonwoo goes down in the game yeah there was a point they had morris norris stanley and stanley oliver thomas playing entire series on defense i don't know who either of those two guys are still still thomas he was a draft pick of the carolina panthers a year's a he's been a journeyman corner though practice squad guy. Right. So I feel like what's what I watch when I see the lion.

So yeah, I mean, health obviously is leading, leading, but when I think of where I would look to upgrade, those are the three spots where I feel like investments would be nice. Edge, edge probably for me. I like Zadaris. He's probably the best running mate Aden's ever had, but I'd go get another guy

to start developing, work into the rotation. Also, we've found out pretty harshly that you need depth there. Yeah. Well, it felt like they did, right? and then it goes away quick. Okay, so you go to sleep Saturday night. You know that the commanders and the chiefs are awaiting their opponents.

You get to 3 o'clock Eastern time and you fire up your TV. You watch the Rams and the Eagles in a game that was cold. You got the snow start to really kick in there as the game moved along, fun game visually to watch. The Rams just, dude, they couldn't hold out of the ball, man. couldn't hold on to the ball. It became a major problem for them. They wind up playing valiant effort.

And a lot of respect for the Rams, but not enough here to get past the Eagles. They go home. What is it for the Rams? Why did they get eliminated? Well, turnover is obviously were a big deal, but that's not something you necessarily fix

with an off-season plan, Joe. I think they need some wide receiver talent here. And this is going to be like maybe counterintuitive. He's looking at Pooka Nakua being a stud. They still have, Cooper Cup. Cup looks mostly done to me. He had been horrendous coming into this game. And this game, he played a little bit better. But man, they need some wide receiver talent. DeMarcus Robbins is a nice wide receiver three story as a guy who seems to found a home. I think if he's

your wide receiver four, you feel a lot better about that situation. Yeah, O line and O line and wide receiver probably. The corners we've been critical of, but they played fine in this game. Obviously, the snow probably helped. I thought those guys both trended up as the season went on. So I don't know. What is our plan at corner? Is it, is it a Callow Witherspoon and Kobe Durant? Yeah. You like that? Yeah. It seems like okay to me.

I like their secondary. It's young as a whole. Quentin Lake, Cameron Kitchens, Kobe Durant. Kello's not young, but like I think there's a lot of developmental upside of those. I'd still add bodies to the room. I'm not saying I could do that, but I don't think it's as pressing, you know. Yeah, I kind of agree with you to some degree with the receiver conversation. I mean, it certainly feels like Cup might not be back.

So you would, you would certainly need another player there. And obviously they want to, they're an 11 personnel offense. Tyler Higbee's like always hurt. Like what if they actually had to do to tight end, you know? Like this was if they were able to somehow get like Brock Bowers last year, like this, this feels like that's a piece that could really elevate what this offense wants to be. That'd be something that that I would. be interested in as a volume piece of this offense.

So that comes to mind. They paid Colby Parkinson, but like, I think Colby Parkinson reminded you exactly of why he's a depth player and not a leading player and they probably overpaid to get him. True. And dude, I like Kyron Williams. I think he's a really good player. But he's not the type of player that screams bell cow to me.

It's kind of confusing to me. He's just, he is. He is just like he's a tough runner. he's not explosive. He's a good player. Culture guy. Yeah, but this is not a player that deserves like the exclusive role in the backfield. Like I would try to be a little bit more dynamic at running back. I mean, I mean, I'm old enough to remember Todd Gurley in this offense and what that looked like. I'm not sitting there saying like sell your soul for a running back, but we don't have to

be that committed to Kyron Williams as like acting like he's Sequin Barkley back there with playing every snap. Yeah, it's funny. they drafted Blake Quorum. For what? For what? I know they did, but like, play him. Well, he's hurt. He broke his arm last game. Right, but like even throughout the course of the season, it was like very clear, like, this is Kyron Williams job. Like, okay. That's, dude, that's been McVeigh's thing, though. He's,

he likes just having the one guy. I think in his mind, there's, if you're just playing one running back the whole game, there's not tendencies to worry about. It's like some teams have tells, right? You run a certain guy on the field. that said, oh, well, they're passing. Like when the Ravens put Justice Hill on the field, typically you know what you're going to get. Even when they run, it's like they have a few select plays for him as a runner.

And I can, I don't even matters. I'm just saying, I think that's the thought. Yeah. Sorry. Kyrin gets 316 carries, Blake Corum 58. That's the next highest. Yeah, it's crazy. Brett, that's silly.

Yeah. I'd also, to your point, like to see an explosive dynamic, too. Like, Corum is Kyron Williams, but maybe a little bit of the version of it. Yeah, exactly. go get, you know, imagine if they had like a, I don't say Jemir Gibbs because you have to invest the top 15 pick in that, but go get like a Tajay Spears type guy. So more the little juice, man. Yeah.

That'd be nice. I hear you on, like, I agree, predictive or special skill set specialization increases predictability, right? Like, I get it. I also watch this Bill's offense with Joe Brady. They do a masterful job incorporating three backs every single week. It's beautiful. So don't tell me it can't be done. Everyone's got to stop caring about stats, man.

As soon as you can stop caring about volume stats, better your offense can be. Yes. Okay, so Rams, we like young dynamic front. I still a little bit nervous about their ability to like consistently defend the run. You know, I think they've been a poor run defense all year. So like they're very much built to like shoot gaps and be a penetration up the field type front, which is interesting because they play a lot of odd fronts.

But like, I think we got to figure that out a little bit too. I think to me, the Rams in the story of their season was we're not consistent enough running the ball or stopping the run. Correct. The front is super exciting. You give me like a Kenneth Grant on that D-line. Oh, gosh, yeah. And you've completed probably my dream young D-line to build from.

So I know it's time to move on. I don't want to yet, though. Can we talk Jalen Hertz really quick? Yeah. Bro, it's insane to me that this guy's knocking on the door of going to his second Super Bowl. Alan hadn't been to one. Lamar hadn't been to one. Are we, like, are we kidding right now? Like, what a flawed player.

What a freaking flawed player. The privilege of playing in the NFC, brother. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. Oh, dude. We owe, uh, this is the second time we owe Jaden Daniels an apology. get him out of our top tens. Jalen Hertz.

Yeah. Yeah, get Jalen Hertz out of the top tens. Justin Herbert, you're also gone, at least for me. And I'm putting in Jaden Daniels twice. Okay. This is crazy. Yeah, I mean, it's funny because at the end of the day, he went 15 for 20. But then you look at the seven sacks my man took and you're just like,

some of those were just, bro, what are you doing? Like I would say the Rams had a chance in this game because of Jalen Hertz. 100% is taking wonky freaking sacks, dude. Yeah, he's tough. He's tough to reconcile. He's playing for the conference championship. So, I mean, he's Tyrod Taylor is who he is. That's the best comparison I've ever had in my life.

He is Tyrod Taylor. He can occasionally make a throw down the field that you love. He can occasionally use his feet and do a special play. But there's just not enough, like, precision in the way that he executes the position in terms of reading coverage, read it and rip it. you're going to take some goofy negative plays. He's just, he's a frustrating player to watch. And I have a lot of friends that are Eagles fans and like they feel the same things.

And I get it like, I can under like respect like you just is who he is. He just is who he is. But it's it's hard to reconcile and you feel like he's elevated so much by that offensive line, by that run game, by those receivers, by the tight end. It's like you kind of, you kind of wonder. You kind of wonder if like they're, I don't wonder. They are absolutely limited because he's their quarterback. There's so much more meat on the bone for what this offense can be.

When he was seeing it, what, at the end of, was it 20, 22? Yeah, went on that run and got to supervise. Yeah, like the hope was that that would be his floor. But that was very clearly his ceiling, the way he was plucking through that run. He was on the year. Really returned to there other than a couple moments here. I think he had a moment like week five or six this year. It was like, okay, it looks like he's back.

And then, nope, not, it's not sustainable for him. So it's tough, man. Stuff. Yeah. And then the tradition of his late season injury that, you know, he's not getting reps ahead of the playoffs. Like, oh, they got to get the stuff tightened up. Well, turns out, though,

quarterbacks carrying the ball that much aren't, it's probably not a good thing. So I'm just saying, get the ball, not protect yourself. That matters. Okay. We got to do the Ravens on the other side of it. We're talking coaching stuff as well.

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We'll talk more about that later. But Baltimore eliminated. And it's kind of crazy. Like there's so much conversation about Baltimore is like, kind of like through the same lens of Detroit where it's like, oh my God, I can't believe you lost this game. I don't know. They were playing a higher seed on the road.

They were one-to-half-point favorites. It's not the same. The bills have been perennially a very, very good team. This Ravens playoff exit feels exactly like all the rest of them. Yeah. It's just sloppy, like, mistakes, getting away from your identity as a football team. And, you know, Omar with massive blunders, dude. I mean, the interception was deplorable.

It's man coverage. I like the match. It's Bateman on Russell Douglas on a vertical, like a slot fade. That's a great matchup. Broussel can't run vertical with Rashad Bateman. But you also can't just stare it down and throw a lollipop, right? Like you still got to move that safety and make an accurate pass, Bozo interception, Bozo fumble.

I mean, it snap goes to the left. You gain control of it. You fumble the ball. It's unforced. It's an unforced error. That's too unforced error. And you winds up, the game script was. taken away, right? The bills are leading 21 to 10 at halftime, have a chance to go 28 to 10 before

they touch the ball again in the third quarter because of Lamar's mistakes. And then, of course, Mark Andrews doesn't help. But this, this divisional round was very much the teams that didn't make the mistakes are playing for the conference championships. And the Ravens just made too many crippling mistakes. And it feels just like all of their playoff exits. And I'll say this, they also just have a tendency to get away from what they are. And there's like this big validation to like become a more of a traditional throwing team. Where was the zone read? Where was the quarterback run game with Lamar like it should be?

Why didn't you feed Derek Henry more? The narratives about the bills being too small up front and all that. Like they existed for a reason. Now, congratulations of bills made some adjustments, figure things out. But there were too many situations where Derek Henry should have had the ball. And he didn't. And they get first and goal from the two.

and that winds up being a 26-yard field goal. Dude. And because he got stuffed on the first play and they went away from Derek Henry on the next two. Give it to him four times. 16 carries in this game for Derek Henry. Which weird is they had the drive where it basically was Henry, all Henry. Right. The third quarter, it's like, okay, here it is.

I know I was like, oh, shoot, I was about to text you. Like, that drive was not a good sign for the way this game's going to end. And then it didn't matter. But holy cow, six. 16 carry, even that. When they had Justice Hill in there, they were running the ball fine, too. Justice Hill was the most dynamic ball carrier they had in the game. Yeah, I mean, and you're right.

It's almost like they want to force this traditional drop-back game in big moments. And I don't know that I get it, man, especially when your dogs are gone, like Zay Flowers, not in this game. Right. Andrews is not playing great, obviously. Rashad Bateman left the game at one point with an injury. Nelson Aguilar, did he leave the game also or is he just not a factor? It's not a factor.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, we're relying on Thailand Wallace for significant snap counts and you want to play drop back pass. I definitely didn't understand any of that, Joe. So, you know, is it, this is Todd Monk in Colin plays. Does it not resemble the previous coordinator who's not in L.A. with Jim Arbaugh? I can't remember his name because I'm, it's brain. I'm brain dead.

Greg Roman. Greg Roman. Even the personnel decision. are Greg Romanesque. The run scheme is Greg Romanesque. The inability to call plays in big moments seems very Greg Romanesque. It just seems like the same guy. Yeah, he makes you maybe ask some bigger questions because it wasn't really what got them there at all. The bills had a very aggressive defensive game plan at times. The blitz was crazy. I think they blitz like 60% or 40, 48% got pressure on 60% of their blitz packages. Then they gave like both extremes. They gave you five-man

pressures and really come after him. And when that was the case, I think Lomar was like six of 12 and a pick against the, when, when blitzed, he was 13 to 12, 13 of 12, 12 of 13 for 155 yards and two touchdowns. So like one thing that I learned in kind of studying Lomar this year and two Bill's games against him is like, you can't play against them on your heels. And I think so many teams like are very cautious like, oh, we got a cage rush, keep them contained and you know, you just, I just don't know if you can do that. I don't, you cannot play on your heels.

You have to introduce chaos. You've got to introduce. Yeah, you've got to hit 100%. And that's where things get wonky. And so, um, you've seen that creep up from time to time throughout his career. Um, but I thought that was a big part of the bill's formula because whenever the bills were like, okay, we're going to run odd mirror. We're going to rush three and spy or like, whatever.

Eventually, either your zones break down and someone's wide open or he just, is able to find a crease and run. You got you got to heat them up. You cannot play against Lamar on your heels. Yep. I agree with that. But okay, what do they got? What do they get better at?

That's what we have to get back to here with Baltimore. I think game management, right? Like that's what it feels like is how are you approaching these big games? So I think we had a relevant conversation there because it's not a talent issue. They got nine pro bowlers, man. They're got plenty of good players. I think they have to, they have to play their game when it matters most. yeah i'm not sure if it's a offensive coordinator issue or what but they they need

they need some much better decision making it was it was all year they they battled this with this though joe you know and lamar covers up a lot for them but um i remember talking about on the the matchup point show that we have here at fantasy points just like i'm not sure like do we need that much patrick ricard in some games yeah man they had some plays where they had two utility offensive lineman and Patrick or card it's like you got three extra 300 pounders on the field man yeah it just it's not for me

you want that you want that package in your playbook that's fine we can use it sometimes but you it's just they're dead plays man there's nowhere to go there's no kills out of them I don't like it yeah you got to be able to get into the right play I agree and when you when you don't you're just saying our guys against you like you're

saying let's go to 1950 yep you know let's smash it and see what happens okay obviously I think they had to play a lot of cover two in this game they played a lot of cover three I think they have some issues at corner I think they I mean Brandon Stevens Tridavius White they're playing a lot of snaps I like I like Nate Wiggins and you know what he did as a rookie but I think they can certainly use an upgrade at corner I think they need a running mate for Roquan Smith Malik Harrison is too limited they bench Trenton Simpson you know that didn't work out so I think

they need a running back running mate for Roquan they need a dude pass rusher like a dude yeah i mean give me a guy i know they like the stand-up backers that can line up in the agap and whatever fine just give me another one that can actually play yeah that's not really what they do right they press washers go they just keep replenish them like they just don't pay pass rushers and they get like like van always aubes in always a good player yeah but i mean they don't have like a true i mean in madame bleak they're playing them to be that guy right i mean it's kind of like a system type thing there but i'm there this is a fifth this is a this is a really good football team. There's not like sweeping changes that are necessary. Play your best

football when it matters. Like that, you got to figure out how to do that. Because I mean, Lamar's about to be a three-time MVP that's never been to Super Bowl. That's crazy. So and some of that's on Lamar, but, you know, they also, I think, just as a team, got to kind figure out in these big moments. All right, let's get in some coaching stuff, Brett Whitefield to get out of here today. We've got some things that have happened. Mike Rable, that's the head coach of the Patriots. Ben Johnson, he's the head coach of the Bears. feels like every indication in the world is that Aaron Glenn's about to be the head coach of the Jets. Let's go back.

Let's go to the first one that happened. Mike Vrable, head coach, New England Patriots, kind of felt inevitable. I thought they made a mockery of the hiring process with what they did to Pep Hamilton and Byron left, which guys that hadn't coached in the NFL since 2022 to check their box to satisfy the Rooney rule. So, I mean, we could celebrate a good hire in Mike Brayble, but I think we should absolutely cashed at making a mockery of a system. but they do land on probably getting one of the hottest names,

if not the hot name in this cycle for Mike Vrable to come in and be the head coach with obviously Drake May at quarterback. I know that you're not super enthused there, but I am. And they have caps face and they got draft picks. So this is a pretty good spot here for New England. I've never said I'm not enthused by Drake May. I just said, I don't think he played very well. He didn't exceed expectations for me.

I know he did for you. Maybe my bar is a little higher, Joe. I didn't think anybody could play in that offense. with that offensive line of those skill players. And he had a pulse? He was barely playing. Barely. See?

Okay. So not Enthus feels like exactly the right way to frame that Brett Whitefield. No, he did enough to feel good. You know, give him T. Higgins and he's no Joe Milton. I mean, obviously. No Joe Milton.

Nobody is. He's going to put out this year with Joe. It is. Yeah, there's no doubt. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Vrable felt like what the obvious candidate last year, right? and then it seemed like they had made promises to Gerard Mayo to give him a shot.

And I don't know, it probably works out the way it should have from the start. You like to hire? Yeah. I mean, culture, we talk about all the time. It's a big deal. Vrable is a culture guy. You know, how he builds a staff out, I think is going to be interesting. They're definitely questions with the way he views the game.

You know, the dude. How much of that, though, is because he has Ryan Tannahill and Derek. Henry. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I guess it's because he backs it up with his mouth is the problem. So even in his press conference, talking about, you know,

all the nine best rushing offices in the league made the playoffs this year. And yeah, Mike, that's because teams that win games run the ball more than other teams because they're running the clock out. Well, if you're talking about volume stats, I don't care, but if you want to get into like EPA and success rate,

You're talking about EPA, efficiency, success rate, nothing. It was legitimately just, I could pull some data for you, too. This is kind of fun. While you pull that data, let me say this, because this was the same stuff that was said about Sean McDermott. It's like, yeah, Sean McDermott's a different head coach when Tyrod Taylor and LaShawn McCoy is his quarterback and running back versus Josh Allen, right? It's become a different coach.

So, like, there's a part of me that thinks Mike Vrable could do that. And I love Mike Vrable's ability to, like, understand the margins and be smart situationally and give his team an edge like that. I do wonder like what type of evolution is going to be there. I mean, I think sometimes look at the Dan Quinn situation. There's there's there's times where you guys just learn a lot from that first stop, give them another chance and they can really apply it and be the truly the best version themselves.

Yeah. All right. Data. You ready? Yeah. So there's a 20% gap between run pass splits for teams that are winning by seven for is teams that are losing by seven 20% Joe yeah that is insane the the rush the run rate for the NFL over the last four years when teams are down by seven or more is 30% that's it so yes Mike

teams typically by volume run the ball more when they're winning games because they're winning games that's not what necessarily got them there not saying it isn't for some teams but that's not necessarily what got them there it's how they're trying to end games so anyways um so yeah so coaching with Ryan Tana Hill and Derek Henry a certain way is one thing. But then continually to, I guess, stand on these tropes is weird to me. Because it's like, you don't have to do that. I get you want to talk about an identity and a culture. We're going to be, we're going to be smash mouth and punch you.

That's great, but you don't have to like wax poetically about how we're going to run the ball a hundred times again. That's weird to me. That's weird. As a fan of a rival team in the AFC East, my reaction to Mike Frable being their head coach is file this. under things that are annoying. All right. And I think that that's, that's, well, I think it's a good hire.

Okay. I can't remember. Did you hear that Ben Johnson's the head coach of the Bears? That came through recently. Yeah. All right. So we're going to find out a lot about Ben Johnson really quickly here, right? Not mass, pretty massive O line downgrade.

I would say pretty massive QB downgrade. How quickly can he fix Caleb Williams? if he can fix Caleb Williams. Also, Joe, we have no idea if Ben Johnson's as a head coach kind of guy or not. He's kind of a nerd. He's kind of a, you know, a little more introverted

than your typical head coach. There's some questions there for sure. No, I'm not going to act like he hasn't been awesome for the last four years, but some questions. He's there because he coordinated a really good Lions offense. And I think what's always impressed me about Ben Johnson and I felt like I started talking about Ben Johnson three years ago.

Was, and I know that these are all very good players right now. Okay, so, but at the time, Jared Goff, okay, sent away by his other team. Armand Ross St. Brown is a mid-round pick. Shouldn't have been, but yeah. Shouldn't have been, but he was, right? Like, even before they had Laporte, it's like Brock Wright is the tight end. Like, I always felt like he got the most out of that talent. And that talent really became what it was under his coaching.

for them to have the success that they did. So he's there because of the success that he had coordinating this lion's offense. Applying the football team administration role, the leadership that comes with it, I have no idea. So we're going to find out if he's Sean Payton or if he's Shane Steichen, right? That's, I think that's what we're going to learn. And I don't know the answer to that. But they're paying them $13 million.

I mean, dude, that's like three times what head coaches get to start off. Is that what he got? Yeah, that's a report. 13 million dollars. Like you, most of these, like Dave Canales, I think is getting like four. It's an insane amount of money to give to a coach. That's like Matt Rulstuff. Yeah, dude.

No, good for him, man. That's great. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. Yeah. Why do you think he's there? I mean, yeah. I guess I can.

People say it's about Caleb. I'm sure that's part of it. But like, what? No, Caleb was a detriment. I guarantee you that. People are saying that, though. We can talk about this off the air because I have. things to say. I can't say on the air.

You know how I feel about Caleb Williams? I'm very concerned. And it didn't matter who the coaching hire was, right? It didn't matter who it was. They got to get Caleb Williams to run the offense and play the quarterback position the right way. Yep. Well, there's questions too on how much Ben, like how much he actually did coordinating the Lions offense. Dan Campbell's an offensive guy. His footprint is, fingerprint is all over what they did. And I know he was involved in the play calling too still, despite for whatever reason Ben getting all of those accolades. Again, not saying Ben wasn't worthy of the opportunity. I'm just saying there's a lot of questions here. I didn't realize

13 million though. That makes that makes everything make more sense to me now. I feel better already about life. That's great. That's good for Ben, man. That is that's a lot of money, dude. A ton. It's that is yeah. Woo. Now, I mean, they're in the division. where they're the only team that didn't go to the playoffs, so the only team that didn't win 11 games this past season. So he's got his work cut out for him. And obviously they can't afford to regress on defense, you know? Yeah.

So they'll get it figured out. A lot of reports about Aaron Glenn to the Jets. We don't know if that's done. It feels like there's a lot of momentum there. We still have to get decisions in Dallas, Jacksonville, New Orleans, and Las Vegas. tons of coordinator roles. We got two GM openings to do, but I think the domino

effects starting to happen here, right? You got Yeah. And partly, I think the lion's getting eliminated that helps move this coaching carousel along. So we'll see how it continues to spin. And maybe we'll have some more stuff to cover when we get back on here on Thursday. Are real quick, though, ideal coach for the four unclaimed positions.

Or five, let's assume Aaron Glenn to the Jets is legit. We got five. five spots left. Dallas, Jacksonville, New Orleans. Raiders. That would be four, Joe. That is not in fact, five. I see the sheet, but I wrote Dallas for a job and Cowboys for a job. Yeah, yeah. I glossed over it when I went through it, but then you had to put yourself back in the arena there and you weren't aware of the typo. Ideal ones? I don't know. I kind of, I'm vibing with Liam Cullen and Jacksonville. I like that. If Jacksonville ends up with Liam Cohen, when it's all said and done, that is remarkable, because I think he was probably the best offensive-minded candidate out there,

just seeing what he did in Tampa, and just knowing that it was fully him. There was no, because there's, like I said, there's questions with Ben and how much that was actually. Because we know that's Dan Campbell's system. Ben was running, but Dan even confirmed that yesterday in his press conference. We also know that Liam Cohen is the sole

proprietor of that Tampa Bay offense. So I think that's a big win for Jacksonville. And he's the only guy that ever got good quarterback play out of Will Levis at Kentucky. So we got to talk about that too, right? The Saints, does anybody have a chance? Who is the poor dude that the Texans hired for one year? David Cully.

They need a David Cully, unfortunately. Or a Jim Tom Sulla. Those are the two, yeah, with that one year in San Francisco, like that guy's not a head coach. I don't know. Is this like a Mike McCarthy? Yeah. If Mike Mark, sure, man. Yeah, we're right.

The Raiders? That's easy for me. Who you like? Dion Sanders, baby, let's go. Dion and Shadur, let's do it right now. Okay, that'd be at least interesting. It'd be fun. I think Dion's a good coach, man.

I like Dion. Culture guy. We talk about culture, leader. Dude, I just, so here's the thing that's challenging there. I find hire Dion. How are you getting Shadur? You have the sixth pick. Are you selling your soul for this guy?

Because if I'm, if I'm, what's that? You won't have to. Absolutely, you have to. I dare you to pick my son, Shadur. I dare you. He won't play a single down for you. Go ahead. Go ahead. Pick him. That's so ugly, dude. Like, I hate everything about that. Bro, it's ugly, but this is the world we live in, Joe. Well, then you need, then you have to, you better give whatever Carolina gave up to go get Bryce Young.

I want the same thing. I want the same freaking thing. I want Brock Bowers. I want multiple first round picks. Yeah. Okay. Cool. You can have them. Well, Carolina came from what, nine to one? Eight to one. Okay. And there's no mandate. Yeah, that's tough. Getting Shadour at 6 is tough, obviously. Not sure how it works out. It just feels like that's destiny.

Dude, it's early in the draft cycle. What if Kim Ward ends up being the number one guy? He won't be for me ever. I'm leveraging. I am leveraging the Shadur thing if I'm a team picking one or two or whatever's going to happen there. Okay. Again, I dare you to take him. We just happened.

Philip Rivers and Eli Manning, and that was a robust package to get that done. What was it? Do you remember? Now we got to look it up. We do have to look at it. Talk about who you like for Dallas. I don't know. Dallas is really tough. I mean, I could see what's his name, Dion there too, because the connection obviously, but no chance that should do or if you do that unless you're trading pieces. Maybe you give up a Micah Parsons or something to get that done. I don't know. But you also pay in DAC a ton of money. I only like Dion if he gets to gets to do it with Shador.

So that's kind of how I feel about that. Dallas, man, I really, that's a, that's a tough situation. I'm trying to. They're going to be like Kellynne Moore or something. Yeah, that seems like that's the only player or person they've actually interviewed, right? Despite having the job open for well over a week now. This trade wasn't that much. There's only 20, 24, 3.

No, this is. What are we talking? This is not correct. Why is it hard to find this information? I don't know. Okay, here it is. the Chargers traded Manning. Yep.

In exchange for Philip Rivers, the Giants' third round pick, and their first and fifth round picks the next year. So they got their third round pick that year and their first and fifth the next year. If you're the Raiders, you probably do that, to be quite honest, Joe. That's not selling your soul. That's a good, but that's a nice. But there's a difference. That's from one to three.

True. Yeah, you don't have a Philip Rivers level replacement. Yeah, you got to remember Philip Rivers was part of that. trade. Yeah, that's a good point. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, you're going to have to pay. Crazy part is the Chargers had Drew Breeze on that team, too. It's like, why, why did we do this? That whole situation was nuts, and then he was about to sign in Miami, and then Miami didn't

clear him medically, he goes to the Saints. The domino effects of things that didn't, they almost happened, but didn't, and the NFL changes the course of everything. What if the Broncos picked Josh Allen instead of Bradley Chub? John, John always said it's the biggest mistake he's ever made. Where are both of those franchises? You know what I mean? Like, what if the lines took Joey Porter Jr. And so there's Jemir Gibbs. Who do you like for Dallas?

Who do I like for Dallas? I don't like anybody for Dallas. Okay, so let's think about this, though. You got to maximize Dach Prescott on a $60 million a year contract. That's my number one priority, right? Oh, so Dion and Shadour combo is off the table for you completely for them because of DAC. There's no, there's no opportunity to get out of that deal.

They're always, if you can get out of Russell Wilson and Deshawn Wall. I would be irresponsible in my opinion. I mean, I don't know that I would think about like necessarily people that they're interested in. But I mean, is Callan Moore worth being interesting there? Like I would really enjoy, I mean, to a degree, like what Joe Brady's doing schematically in Buffalo. Oh, for sure. I mean, with Dak, I think that would be good. But I mean, Joe Brady falls into the Ben Johnson conversation.

I don't know. I don't know if he's a football team administrator and leader. I know that he's got a really good scheme. and has really elevated Josh Allen and allowed him to play very mature quarterback. But I don't, I don't know. I have no idea if he can run a football team. Man, that's, I also don't want that for Joe Brady. I think like Ben, he needs to be a little selective here.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, especially because Jerry Jones is your GM. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, that's a problem. Is there any chance Dallas can get Bill Belichick to reneg on his North Carolina situation? Boy, it doesn't feel like that's going to happen. It does not. Well, Michael Lombardi came out and said, look, Bill Belichick is recruiting.

The NFL is not an option. That's pretty, I mean, it's pretty direct. That is very direct. So Kellan Moore or Bustin, I guess. There's things I like about Kellan Moore. He's another one. We don't know culture-wise how he'll be. He's been in that building, though, right?

I mean, that's helpful. Yeah. For sure. Let's not do Jason Garrett or Mike McCarthy again, though. You know what I mean? No. They had three 12 wins seasons in a row with Mike, man. It's crazy.

but you kind of just knew it was fake. You knew the whole time it was fake. It's almost like you should just do that for another year, but I doubt Mike would do a year deal, right? He's still out there. I mean, they could bring back Mike McCarthy, who's gotten the best quarterback play we've ever seen that at that. Is the bridge burned?

Would you, would you rather go be the head coach of the Saints? Probably. I think he probably wants to change, even though the Saints is like purgatory right now. I don't know. Like, they mutually parted. They didn't even negotiate a new deal. That's red flags to me.

I think it's over. I don't know. They're kind of screwed, though, and I kind of like it. Imagine being the Cowboys. Three 12 win seasons in a row. Here's your down year and you look at what's going on in Washington. Washington and Philly are playing for the freaking conference championship. You didn't go to the playoffs.

Boy, it's got to be tough. It's got to be tough. You feel like you just got lapped by the freaking commanders. That's when you put it like that, Joe, that sounds horrible. Yeah. That would create some urgency for me in Dallas. Like, this can't happen. Is it possible that other people see it, though?

And they're like, no, because Jerry Jones is the owner and nothing's ever going to be different. This is exactly the world that they have to live. And they have to strike gold on some quarterback. And Dak is, he's a good player. He's not elevate everything. Yeah. You're not going to be great every year because Dak's your quarterback. Woof.

All right, dude, let's get out of here. We'll be back Thursday. Remember, folks, no matter what develops, who will always. be your first read. Thanks for listening. We are out.