Fantasy Football Daily - Champs and Chumps of the Week + Early 2025 Top-10 NFL Mock Draft | NFL First Read

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down "Champs and Chumps of the Week + Early 2025 Top-10 NFL Mock Draft" Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Check out The Waiver Wire - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/the-waiver-wire-week-5#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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taught the lion some lessons. Some very costly lessons as the lions lose four more starters to I are. I mean, this is lost more than just the game, right? Yeah. It's a very expensive lesson to learn. I do think there's some, some good takeaway of the lines in this game. Obviously, we're going to get to that and more, but let's, I guess let's start with champ and chump, and then we'll give all the bills lines. I think it's probably going to feed into that a little bit anyway, so we'll just go ahead and get right into it. Well, let me start if I may. And, And I want to start with my chump because my chump has nothing to do with Bill's Lions, but my champ kind of does.

And I'm guessing your champ and jump have something to do with Bill's Lions. So we'll kind of transition into all of it. And we got some fun lined up today. We got a mock draft coming, top 10 mock draft. So we talked a lot of a lot about the good teams in the NFL the last few weeks. We're going to turn our attention to the teams that didn't quite meet their goals. So you get a top 10 mock draft here on this episode. my chump of the week, Brent Whitefield,

is Devandre Campbell. Okay. Come on, man. San Francisco 49ers, linebacker refuses to go in the game. The third quarter? This is an unsurious situation. And I think Devondre Campbell

committed career suicide. I think the NFL should blacklist him in a big way. You can't do that. You can't quit on your team. You can't just refuse to go into a football game as a healthy, active player. That's not how this goes. And to me, there's a massive lack of self-awareness with this situation regarding Devandre Campbell,

who is in his age 31 season, who was cut by the Packers two years into a five-year, $50 million deal, signed with the 49ers this off season on a one-year, $5 million deal. We all know exactly why he signed with the 49ers. it's to fill in for Dre Greenlaw who got injured in the Super Bowl. Everyone on planet Earth knew exactly why Devonre Campbell was a member of the 49ers, except for Devondre Campbell.

So for him to play this card to feel like he's been cited or wronged in some way, shape, or form to the point where he's not going to go into a game? This is the NFL, dude. People are counting on each other, like, correct. and everything is on the line. And if you're going to get a jersey on game day and be part of that roster and be healthy and decide that you're not going in, that's silly, dude. That's silly, all-time chump of the week, Devandre Campbell.

Yeah, I don't know why, but I didn't even think of that because that's a great call. Deonti Johnson similarly went through something with the Ravens and then you saw Antonio Brown do this a couple years ago with the bucks. Yeah, this is chump stuff, chump behavior for sure. I think the thing that's like very interesting to me is there are a couple beat writers that are insinuating the 49ers are using him as a scapegoat to kind of cover up the mess that is the 49ers right now. I find that a very interesting perspective from people that are, I should say, a person

that's in the building. I think it's Grant Cohn that is saying that. But it's a very interesting perspective because like, I agree with you. This is chump behavior. But are the 49ers leaning into this a little bit to distract the fan base from what's actually going on, which is a pretty bad season. I'll tell you this, in the year 2024, and as I push 40 years old,

I'm no longer surprised by any opinion that anybody has about anything, you know, like, I've seen it all, brother. I've seen it all. True. Good point. The spin zone can spin. And I think the beat writer that you have referenced is been controversial on a number of fronts throughout the years.

It's very true for sure. Should I go right into my champ? Yeah, let's do your chance. All right, let's get mine out of the way, and then we'll get into yours. My champ of the week, man, there's a lot of options. You can talk about Josh Allen, talk about Ed Oliver, Ty Johnson, James Cook. I'll go to the guy who's responsible for all of it, Mr. Sean McDermott. And with this win, it's now five consecutive 11 win seasons.

Brett Whitefield, that's only been done five times ever in the history of the NFL. Tom Landry. Tony Dungy, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, Sean McDermott. The Lions and the Chiefs, they're 25 and 1 this season against the rest of the league. They're 0 and 2 against the bills. The Lions never led. They trailed by 17 in the fourth quarter. The Chief's biggest lead was one point and they trail for the entire second half.

The bills won by two scores against Kansas City. And I know that Josh Allen gets a lot of credit for the state of the Buffalo Bills and he should. but Sean McDermott in 2017 before Josh Allen played for the bills snapped a 17-year playoff drought in his first season as the head coach in a year where most people thought the bills were tanking. They tanked their way to the playoffs. In 2019, before Josh Allen was Josh Allen, where there were still three interception games and reckless decisions and reckless,

not just decisions, but like with his own body, how he played the game. Bill's got to the playoffs that year and were a 10-win football team. As before Josh Allen was Josh Allen. And in a city like Buffalo, where it's been the butt of a lot of jokes throughout the years as a city in the NFL. And you've heard rumors and rumblings of players in the past that said they didn't want to go there. And was it Tony Gonzalez said that you're sending me to Serbia. If you trade me to the Buffalo Bills, it's about culture. to have a strong foundation in place. Look at the Buffalo Sabres.

Might be the worst organization in professional sports. Their general manager like two weeks ago got in front of everyone and said, we don't have palm trees in Buffalo. It's hard to get players to come here. Not the case with the bills playing the same city, able to get some pretty attractive names to come there. And it's about player development. So yeah, it's about Josh Allen, but the culture that's in place because of Sean McDermott, the player development that's happening, where in a transition year that the bills are in. They can go out and be 11 and 3 right now.

And a step back year, champ of the week, Sean McDermott. And I know the Super Bowl win is missing from his resume, but he's going to go, if he gets a Super Bowl, the conversations about Sean McDermott are going to very, very, very, very drastically shift from, is this the coach that's holding back Josh Allen to, wow, he is in some rare company. He is the only head coach in the NFL, not named Andy Reed,

to have won a playoff game in each of the last four seasons. There's a lot of good going on with Sean McDermott. And if he can get that monkey off his back, we're going to revere Sean McDermott as a really outstanding head coach in the National Football League. It's a great call, Joe. It's one that stings today as, you know, we're talking Bill's lines here.

But, man, I owe Sean an apology. I think it was after the 2020. season. I suggested they fire Sean McDermott. Didn't think without Brian Dable, you guys would get the most out of Josh Allen. Thought he still had some warts to cover up. And sure enough, they kind of cover each other very well. I think Josh obviously can cover multiple of the sins, but so can Sean McDermott, right? So great call. He's a fantastic coach and you guys are lucky to have him. Well, and I think with Sean, like the bills are in every game. I think they've had two losses by more than one score since like 2020, right? They don't, they don't

really lose big, very, very rare. And I think kind of his approach, his ability to game plan, his ability to make in-game adjustments allows them to be competitive. I know that things can get chaotic with Sean McDermott, like end of game, end of half sequences. Like that's for sure. Every strength, every coach has strengths and weaknesses, right? Like, just like players, just like anybody in any walk of life,

whatever you do, you're good at certain things, you're bad at certain things. I don't think we necessarily look at that fairly through the lens when we talk about head coaches in the national football league. We expect them to be great at everything, right? Great culture builder, great leader, great game planner, great adjuster, great in-game manager, right? They all have strengths and weaknesses.

Andy Reid was was booed out of town in Philadelphia for game management blunders, right? And then all of a sudden it's not that way anymore. So, yeah, he's got strengths and weaknesses like any other person. But when your strengths are leadership, culture development, player development, game planning, in-game adjustments, And the one thing you just got to get a little bit better at is some chaotic moments at the end of halves. It's not a bad, not a bad list of strengths and weaknesses. No, it's not.

And that's pretty, you feel like that's improvable, right? Like, you can get better at that stuff. Some of that stuff that he's already good at is your quote unquote, uncouchable stuff. For sure. I think the thing I've always wondered about Sean is because he's, I don't know, his persona is like, how does he lead the team? Like, what's the, like, is he a true leader of men? You would know that better than me. Yeah.

100%. Yeah, that's, that's my favorite thing about Sean McDermott is he is big on the word love. All right. And I know that for a world of football with alphas and all that stuff, that's not a word that people say a lot. But he believes in instilling the culture where everybody loves each other and that you're not playing just for yourself. You're playing because you're tightly connected to everyone in the organization. and they are family-oriented, and it brings out the best in each other

because they're playing for themselves, obviously, but they're playing because they don't want to disappoint anyone in the room, and guys are deeply connected to one another, and he fosters that environment, and it's been really cool to see come together after, you know, a long stretch of futility in Buffalo. Awesome stuff. All right, you ready for my championship jump?

Ready. All right, so I'll start with my champ. It's right in line with your champ. I went Joe Brady. I am. And I think, you know, this was a battle of the coordinators. The Lions get a lot of love for their coordinators and Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn. And I think they got completely out-coached in this game, Joe.

Joe Brady came in with a very distinctive game plan identifying correctly what the Lions' weakness was. They were down to their, obviously they have Jack Campbell, but then after that, they're done to their fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth linebacker. We're trotting out Jamal Adams and Kwan Alexander and Ben Neiman and, you know, Joe Brady came with a game plan that directly attacked those guys on every single snap. And I think I actually went back and watched the game several times now, snap for snap. Other than the Keon Coleman 60 yard play, every single play that the bills had that was a big play was attacking those linebackers. Whether it was the gap scheme in the run game where they're changing the, the,

site picture and the, you know, the run keys at the line of scrimmage. Like those linebackers had no, they've only been here for two weeks. They had no idea how to fit the gaps. They got absolutely annihilated with those gap schemes. Whether it was, you know, anytime Josh got Zeke Turner in a shadow or a spy situation, it was Josh taking advantage of that, whether it was the running backs, Ty Johnson. They came out with a very, what's the word, a very intentional game plan to get Ty

Johnson involved because he knew he was, you know, better than the lion's fifth, six linebacker. It was just a great game plan. And when I juxtapose that to my chump, Ben Johnson, Ben didn't come in with a game plan to take advantage of where Buffalo was hurting. And that was your secondary, your safeties. It wasn't until late in the third quarter. They actually started going at your safeties.

And it was very frustrating to watch. I get the identity of the team is they want to run the football, right? They want to be physical. But when you come out, start the game. with a three and out and then you give up a touchdown just a horrendous painful touchdown a long touchdown drive at some point you have to adjust what you're doing and you have to go at the defense's weakness and the lines and ben jonson just really weren't willing to do that until it was too late in my opinion and i know that the score was what it's like a six point game or something that it

wasn't that close it was it was bad it was it was rough so um yeah so my my champ joe brady for actually coming up with a game plan that exposed where the lines are weak and my chump is Ben Johnson for not doing that and for being too Ben Johnson and too cute even I know we were texting during the game Joe like some some of the ways they were converting first downs

in the first half borderline seemed fluky you mentioned the skipper play I think in our text the you know Jared golf scrambling for 11 yards like they were like legit barely hanging in there and it just was not a very gratifying game plan to Ben Johnson

in my opinion. The Ben Johnson moment for me was the second drive of the game, condensed formation, and you've said this multiple times to me and other people that I discussed the Lions with. There's a predictability with Ben Johnson and shot plays. And on the double corner blitz, where they sent Benford and Elam on a play action, like you knew that it was coming. And so Jared Goff turns his back to the defense, and that picture is real different. Uh, with both corners coming at him. And it was like, yeah, they knew. They, they like, because you're not going to send both corners if you don't have a pretty

good idea of what's coming. It was the play action deep shot. They had three man, three in a route. And the bill sent both corners and Ben forgot them got golf down. And I was like, yeah, they knew. They knew that was coming. And the bills showed a willingness to do some different things on the defensive side of the football. We'll talk about that in a minute, right?

So that's the champs and chumps of the week. We're talking Bill's Lions, week 15 in the books. and then we're getting into the mock draft today here on NFL first read. All right, Brett Whitefield, was getting into a little bit of the bills and the defense. And one of the big talking points that I had all week going into Bill's Lions was both defenses I thought were in trouble with structurally how they choose to play against the opposition. And for the Bill's defense, the issue was, well, they play base nickel, light boxes,

and they don't, you know, if they go different personnel, it's dime, it's not base. And they showed a willingness early in the game to play three linebacker sets against the heavy condensed sets by Detroit. And I thought that helped them fit the run early. And so you go touchdown, touchdown, they go punt, punt. That puts Detroit down 14. And Detroit pretty quickly got one dimensional with their game, right? They, they are down 14 and they, they want to throw in the, it was a 64 dropbacks and 15 rushes or 12 rushes or something like that. Like they were the team that got out of their preferred

style of play. But I think it's because the bills came out understanding, hey, you're going to give us base defense. We're going to attack that with tight ends and running backs all game long. Yep. And we got to, we got to match personnel a little bit and be aggressive to force you into some punts and allow us to be the team that's two-dimensional all game and the bills wind up having 34 runs 34 passes yeah i mean joe for one you know the the lines they live in man coverage right they run man more than anybody it was a pretty distinct game plan to to go after that man coverage i swear to you every single time there's a big play you see who was responsible for it and it was

it was the back of a linebacker's numbers you know it was it was just rough and and and oliver dude what's up with that. Yeah, he got called out all week long. It was, uh, honestly, it was like Bash Ed Oliver week. Media went after him and Ed stood, sit there and took all the questions like to his credit. But there was a calling out of Ed Oliver and that Oliver said, yeah, we're going to go ahead and wreck this. And had a lot of success about success against Glasgow, but also had a lot of success against Frank Ragnow. One of the, the metrics, uh, that I love to pull in the, data suite is, well, you can pull any metric, which is, which makes it amazing is you can look at defensive line stunt, you know, like what the results of passes are when the defensive line stunts.

And part of Ed Oliver Week last week where everyone was clowning the guy, I tried to find anything different about the Bill's defense this year compared to last year that would make him go from, you know, double-digit sacks and all the pressures in the world to like one sack and no pressures and no splash plays. And the stunts were down considerably year over year. Now, obviously, the game script matters. And when you're having a lead and you put a team in a one-dimensional situation, and you're going to be able to be a little bit more aggressive with your rush, right? That helps. But on those 64 dropbacks that Jared Goff had, the bills wound up stunting on 22 of them, which is a pretty significantly higher rate than

they typically stunt their defensive line. On those 22 dropbacks with the defensive line stunt, The bills had a 50% pressure rate and a pressure rate over expectation of 16.54. By comparison on the 42 dropbacks where they didn't stunt, the pressure rate was 33%, so it's 17% dip there. But the pressure rate over expectation was negative 1.64, right? So they were able to take advantage of the game script and put their defensive linemen in situations where they have an advantage. They don't have Chris Jones. They don't have Miles Garrett. You've got to help these guys a little bit.

And I thought that they were able to take advantage of the situation and get into some D-line stunts a little bit more than they have throughout the course of the season previously. Yeah, that's good. The bull rush that Oliver is running straight through Frank Ragnow. I got to know how much Frank's hurting right now. You know he has a torn peck. Yeah. And he's been playing with that all season. I remember what happened earlier in the year.

I'm like, this guy's going to miss time. You're like, oh, it's Frank Ragnow. He literally doesn't miss time. He has a degenerative big toe. it's like he has he has turf toe pretty much always and it can't be fixed he's he's placed through it he's a tough dude but it's i think the injuries are catching up with them a little bit you saw like him and glasgow were just getting just yeah i mean gregg russo had a great game too man like yeah the bills d line came to play for

sure and we were you know the preview show joe we talked about how oh we don't think the bills d line can hang with the lion's o line here and they they were the better unit by far It wasn't even close. It wasn't even close. It felt like they took it personal. And something you said before the game that I really didn't give much consideration to, but I think you were right about is a little bit what happened to the bills the week before against the Rams where it's like kind of an, like just an emotional letdown.

You won seven in a row. You clinch the division, you know, like you're riding high. And you kind of get woke up. And I think for Detroit, I mean, maybe there's a case like extended rest, maybe didn't help them. a third game in a row at home. You finally win on Thanksgiving. You beat the Packers the week before.

I feel like you're in the driver's seat. And it's like, well, here's, here comes somebody that, that is coming off some sting that wants, you know, wants to win the game. Both teams obviously do. But I think there was like, I think there was an emotional and like intensity difference between both teams, which you don't expect out of Detroit. But I think you kind of saw that coming a little bit. Yeah. the 12 wins in a row was a franchise record and that game against Green Bay was a dog fight like they were you know they did it with you know missing so many guys on defense i do think there was an emotional letdown i mean dan dan campbell said in his press conference like hey we we didn't match the intensity buffalo came out way hungry than we did and that's on me like as the coach he takes the one thing i love about dan he'll always take accountability for a loss like that but i'm not sure how much was dan's fault we can get into the outside kick situation but But we really don't have to either because I think it was fine.

But yeah, man, tough, tough game. I think this is, the Lions needed a loss like this, to be honest with you. I think it's a wake-up call. You know, Ben and Aaron Glenn have been so good all year. So to get their asses handed them kind of, I think is good for them. It's like, okay, cool. We're not, we're not perfect. We got to be a little more detail-oriented and, you know, pay more attention to stuff.

And, yeah, I think it would be good in the long run. the injuries however are not good let's go there let's go there because how does this change things and carlton davis alim mcneal david montgomery come on dude this is nuts yeah yeah sounds like carlton davis could be back

for the playoffs at some point so we'll just assume he's TBD alim being gone that's that's not good i mean him and hutch were the two best de linemen they have obviously dj readers a really great player at what he does, but he's not your your pass rusher, right? Like he's not your,

I can provide a lot of interior pressure. Um, a little, I guess silver lining. Maybe I'm, I'm grasping at straws here. Levi Arunzurike is much better as a three technique rusher than he is as an edge guy. With Aleem and DJ being so good, he doesn't get a ton of run on the interior. He has to play a lot of base end and I think him moving into that three tech spot will be very good for him in his development. You saw at the end of last year, he was an absolute monster when he got to play on the interior. And he played an interior, you know, a handful of snaps a game this whole season, but I think him playing there full time will be good for him. So maybe, you know, that's a little silver line. It's not like they're going to nothing. They still have a guy there that can play

and play well. Carlton Davis, though, that's tough. David Montgomery, you know, say what you will about running backs don't matter. I think the running backs this year are trying to make a case that that's not true. Running back's very much do matter. And then when you consider the fact that he's like the, you know, he's one of the glue guys of the team, he's, you know, that's a devastating loss. Does it affect them on offense a ton? Probably not.

I think Jemir Gibbs is probably a better player. And you're just going to lean into him a little bit more. But man, from a, from a culture and, you know, psychology standpoint, that's just got to be just a devastating loss for that locker room. Yeah, no, no question. I will say, though, when Gibbs got the ball, or when Montgomery got the ball and it wasn't Gibbs, I was so happy. God, Gibbs is a problem, dude.

He's electric, and it's like, I know Montgomery brings a different element, but it's like, wow, he's electric. He's just electric. Definitely easier to replicate what David does versus what Jemir does. There's only a few guys in the league that can do what Jemir does, obviously. Right, just winning, like the, okay, everything's wrong here. every gap is fit well it doesn't matter because he can outrun anybody to the perimeter and get an 11-yard gain when you've done everything right you know like that dude's a problem for sure he was close to breaking a couple in that game and just I know you know last guy got him you're just like oh that would have changed the game but oh well we move on we move on three to play uh Steelers couldn't help you out the Eagles win the Vikings take care of their business against the Bears they're going to Dude, the Vikings are out on a mission and it's your fault.

Like, I think this is definitely on you for your continued doubt, your continued criticisms towards Sam Darnold. And, you know, they're here. And they want to remind you that. You think week 18s for the division? Oh, clearly. Well, so both teams have to, you know, hold serve at least. Yeah, Minnesota still got one against the Packers, right?

So that could be a tough. They go to Seattle and host Green Bay. Yeah, and the lines have Chicago who hapless. Yeah, what, they lost eight in a row, seven or they're hapless. Yeah, they usually play up to the lines, though. So I'm not, I'm not calling that a W yet, not with all the injuries, the lines are going through. And I do think one thing about the lines in Dan Campbell's tenure is they respond to losses very well. So I do expect them to come out and crack some skulls.

But I don't think the San Francisco game is super easy. I know they're not great either, but they're not just going to roll over and die for you because you're trying to win your division. You know, like they're going to be. Rock 30 is still playing for that contract. Like, yeah, I don't, you know, so I, yeah, they got to go win those two games and then they get, you know. It's cool. Both teams control their destiny, I guess is the way to look at it. So that week 18 game is going to be a big one.

Should have some good, it should be for the one seed still too, right? because I think technically Detroit is still in first place right now. They have the tiebreaker over the Eagles because of conference schedule or conference conference record. Then are common opponents too, I think they're. Yeah. Philly's got commanders, Cowboys, Giants. So the reality is they could just win all three. Yeah.

And then we'll play them all and see what happens. I think there's a path for all three teams to be the one. Yep. where in the AFC, I think it's how the chiefs have to lose two or three. The bills have to win the last three, right? That's the path for the bills to be the one. But Kansas City now, it's not like they got a cakewalk here. They got a pretty tough slate of games to finish things out with the Texans.

And then at Pittsburgh at Denver. And then they play all of those games from December 21st to January 5th. So it's like three games in 11 days. And oh, by the way, Patrick Mahomes has this. ankle deal. And I don't know. I feel like Patrick Mahomes has had ankle deals throughout his career and then he's just fine, right? Like nothing matters. Right? He just seems to play better. But this has been a challenging year for them where I think they've had more

protection issues than usually. He's taking some more hits than usual. The production hasn't been there. Defense isn't quite as good. They need that buy. I think that's the point. It's like more than ever, they had a week six regular buy, which is obviously not great. You want one later in the season. But between that, their injuries, it feels like Kansas City's got to find a way to get this one seed and any combination of two, right? So either Chiefs wins or Bill's losses,

they get that one seed, and it feels really important for them this year if they're going to three-peed. Yeah, good stuff. Would you say the Vikings have the hardest remaining schedule of the top three NFC teams? They got to play the Packers and the Lions still. 100%. Yeah.

In Seattle, actually. Yeah. Not Seattle's scary with Gina Smith, but or with genet smith well and in i think here's the reality with detroit is like at what point do you have to start looking at them a little bit differently with all the attrition and at what point do they need to make some choices defensively like are put you how do you get your best 11 players on the field to me that's probably a meek robinson robertson in the slot with branches of deep safety and then two linebackers like i'm watching david long like he hadn't been able to

fit the run all year long. Why is he on the field? Yeah, they got to get into some more nickel, early nickel stuff. If they don't like a meek and run support, then they got to put branch in the nickel on early downs. 100%. What Brandon Joseph out there as your deep safety and bring, bring Kirby up in the box with branching the nickel. They got to, they got to make an adjustment like that for sure. That's better than, I mean, these line backers, some of them are unsurious, man.

Like, David Long, Kwan Alexander, Jamal Adams. Turner. These four guys were unemployed two, three weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. They can't be primary players for your defense. And Neiman is here because he's a great special teams player. He's good in coverage.

He's a pretty good coverage player. But yeah, he's not going to come thump and put his face in a fan and stuck with the run. So they need, yeah, they got to make a major adjustment with the personnel for sure. One thing I wanted to say, too, I think I was pretty confident the lines were going to win that game against the bills. I think I was way overvaluing small sample, which is something I hate doing. I'm pretty religious about not overvaluing small sample, but just seeing the Lions performance with the guys they had,

I think I overvalued what they were capable of just because of one game, you know. So probably maybe a little overconfident and what that defense is capable of. I think you saw them get exposed, and so things should change from here on out. Yeah, it's what back-to-back weeks against Green Bay and Buffalo was a 31 against Green Bay.

Yeah, it was the way it ended, right? Green Bay scored on like their final four possessions or something like that. And it's like, yeah, a little bit like the lot, yeah, Lions, they wind up scoring 42, but it's like three touch, three quick touchdown drives in the fourth quarter. Do you realize that the Lions had a 16 play, 70 yard drive that took one 51 off the clock? Yeah, yeah, that's nuts. What? What?

Are you kidding me? 16 plays and it takes less than two minutes? Um, do you buy, so can we talk about the onside kick though? Wow. You mentioned that. No, I'd like to. You have, um, interesting perspectives on a lot of things. And so I, I really enjoy hearing your thoughts.

And like, even if I don't agree with you, your positions are always defendable. And that's, that's all I ever asked for if I talk football with anybody. Like, don't come in here with nonsense. Uh, tell me why. And if it makes sense, even if I disagree, we can, we can live in that world. Was the, was the missing part of that equation for them, like, not. giving up the return and a touchdown. Like if they held them to a field goal, that probably helps their chances.

Like that game might look different at the end. So you're talking about the early onside kick? The first one, yeah. The first one. The reason you go for that there and the reason I was 100% okay with it is because you had given up at the Green Bay game, five of their last six possessions resulted in scores. And then in this game, you had forced one punt the entire game. is there a very small chance you hold them to a field goal sure but they're probably scoring

uh i think you go you do the onside kick if you don't get it the job is still the same hold them to a field goal now obviously mac hollins returning that ball down to the five was not in the that's not right wasn't planned for i think dan said after the game like well in hindsight you know hindsight's a great tool i obviously wouldn't have done it had i known it to get returned down to the five but uh yeah it's completely defensible because the defense was a sieve they i think we were up to 13 score 13 scoring opportunities and 14 drives 15 drives dating back to the end of the green bay game through that buffalo game not great joe yeah that's not great and so you can't really trust your defense um you know also they had a really good crack at it both and yeah both

And yeah, it's set up the second one, right? Because they kind of gave him a look and then gave him a different look. And the second one, it kind of threw Buffalo off. They had a chance at both those balls. The thing I was mad at Dan, he didn't do it on the next time. Right. It won't score a touchdown. Then he didn't onside kick there.

And I thought that was curious. I would have done it again. Right. So. Yeah, they had to do that. A real shot at both. Mac Hollins didn't clean up, field that ball cleanly. If they, if the lions were going to hit Mack Hollins as opposed.

to like going for the ball, it might have been a different situation. And then they probably should have got the second one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think actually they did at one point have the second one. It just got ripped away in the dog pile, which is. It's messy.

It was messy by the bills on both of those situations. All right. Mock draft time, Brett Whitefield? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. All right. Stay with us. We're doing it next.

All right, Brett. We're doing a top 10 mock draft tier using the current NFL draft order. So that'll be fun. And what's fun about the current draft order is the variability of what could happen here is huge. Like, do we have teams? Like, if you mess up and win a game, you can go from picking two to eight, you know, like real quick here. True. So be careful here.

That was a terrible win by the Jets. I mean, honestly. And a great job by the Jaguars screwing that up there at the end and letting Devante Adams go off. So let's do this. You want to clap? Let's do collaborative. Greon on the picks, kind of talk through it. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

All right. The first pick in the draft right now belongs to the Las Vegas Raiders, who obviously have a massive need at quarterback. It sounds like the Sanders family is okay if this is a spot for Shadur. Yeah, you know what I'm going to say here. Shoulder, right? Let's go Shadur. I think when we did a good player team fit show, what was that probably like six,

seven, eight weeks ago now. I think we talked about Shadur with the. Rater specifically for that reason because we thought Dion would be okay with it. Yeah. It doesn't sound like Dion's going to be looking for an NFL head coaching job, but we were thinking potential partnership there as well because Antonio Pierce kind of lame duck, but it is what it is. If he stays up Colorado, that's also fine.

They need to do a lot to help Chodor or whatever quarterback they draft. O-line's not good enough. Weapons aren't good enough. So they got a lot of work to do. And I'm curious what they do coordinator-wise. You know, they're rolling with this Scott and North Turner situation. And I mean, for Sanders, that actually would stylistically be a decent fit. But there's a lot to get right.

I mean, everything, right? They got to get the supporting guests, get the coordinator. They get the quarterback figured out. But if they do have the number one pick and Dion signs off on it, which is a crazy comment to make, this feels logical to me. Yeah, I think so. It almost feels like they have to. I don't know. The quarterback's just that important.

Well, yeah, and especially in this draft, we obviously have a lot of draft conversations in the coming months, but like, it should do her Sanders and Cam Ward, and I'm not sure there's another quarterback that you should pick in the first round. Yeah, I got one who will make a push Jackson Dart.

You keep talking about him. I got to watch him. Yeah, it's, you know, there's some flaws to his game. The system he's coming from isn't, super gratifying to the NFL, but I think we're talking probably like mid to late first round grade from me, vertical passing offense. I mean, you want a guy who can throw a deep ball. That's your man right there.

Very similar skills up to Jane Daniels, actually. Not quite as athletic, obviously, but I want a guy who can push the ball down field, time and rhythm, make stuff happen. Creation-wise, I think Jackson Dart's a good fit for that type of offense. New York Giants own the number two pick. the draft. Obviously a massive need at quarterback. Are you buying that Shane and Dable are back? I don't want to buy it. That sounds crazy to me, but no, they're terrible, man. It's not a foregone conclusion, but boy, it's kind of a kind of real messy here. Yeah.

Do you think, do you think it matters? If the, the giants are picking two, is this, they have to pick a quarterback? My problem, though, is Joe, I just, I'm not. going to have a grade that high. I'm not going to, I'm not going to have a top five grade on Cam Ward. So it's, you know, are you okay losing a little value to try to take a swing at quarterback? Normally, you know me. I'm all like the analytics suggest throw darts at quarterback till you got one, right? So yeah, I just, I don't know, man. That seems, that seems early. So I feel like we're in a dilemma between what would you do and what do you think they will do, you know, and I think that's where sometimes mock drafts can get a little bit messy. Yes.

because I think most people would just slap Cam Ward here and move on with their life, say they need a quarterback. Here's one that gives them a chance. But the valuation piece of this predictively for the NFL is pretty interesting. I think they've told us routinely that quarterbacks like Cam Ward are players that teams are going to pick in the first round, but not necessarily this high, but also I think there's a different layer to organically make. taking this pick versus trading up and giving up a lot of assets to get the quarterback. To me, to me, that's what makes it digestible.

It's like you're going to organically sit here at two and pick this quarterback as opposed to, all you got to go from six to two and give up all kinds of stuff for like a shaky prospect. That's a, that's a good point. That's a very salient point. Did Joe Shane pick Daniel Jones? No, no. Come on. You know, Dave Gettleman did that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they sat, stood pat and took him at what, six, seven, something like that? Yes, I think it was six or seven, yeah. So you're saying Cam Ward here then? I think predictively for the sake of this mock draft, it makes sense to me with the layer to the conversation being, this is not universally the number two pick in the draft. I think this is probably more of a player from a valuation perspective that we should look more at like a Justin Fields or like a Jordan Love, right? Like where you saw those as like, okay, middle of the first round, pushing pick. 20 like that's probably where they should go but also those were very different quarterback years right true

i mean love was with burrow and herbert and tua and fields was with yeah and hurts who went second and fields was with part of i mean it winds up being a terrible class but that was wilson yeah Trevor mac jones uh uh tray lance yeah so for what i know that we look at hindsight is great, right? It's easy to look back at those draft classes now, but I think because you're talking about the third quarterback being Jackson Dart, like with all due respect, Cam Ward, that's going to be a benefit to somebody like Cam Ward. Another great point. Didn't think about it from that lens either. So we're going with quarterbacks one, two, Sanders Ward. Yep. So now things get interesting from this point forward, where the New England Patriots are up next at number three, and the

Patriots have a fascinating offseason ahead of them where I think things could be a little bit different because Drake May has shown some positive flashes. And they had all the spending power in the world last off season. Nobody wanted to go to New England, right? They've had a hard thing. They've had spending power for years now. And it has not been very successful for them to land players. I mean, we all remember the Matthew Judon recruiting tours that have been happening through

the last few years. And he can't get anybody to come there. And so it feels maybe a little bit different right now because there's, some hope, but obviously they're still picking three in the draft. Point being is they need to continue to find some blue chip talent that's going to change the course of their, their operation. And they have their choice of non-quarterbacks right now at this pick. Yeah, unfortunately for them, what they really need isn't really available.

Like, there's not an O-lineman here that I think great about. Now, we'll probably still see a couple go top 10, Joe, because it happens every year, but. Wouldn't be me. Wouldn't be me. Not with these guys. Right. So if we're ruling out O-line, you've got to go probably best player in the draft, is that Travis Hunter? I think so.

And I think where this gets a little bit complicated is you'd like to do something here with this pick that's going to help Drake May. And I don't know what the vision for Travis Hunter is going to be. It could vary from team to team. I don't know what his preferences are. But it's hard for me to not buy in that this is simply just the best player and a rare talent and the player you need to add. That's fair. So, I mean, a guy I love is Ted McMillan. I like Ted McMillan too, but I, if you're going to, I think Travis Hunter is just so much more appealing to me as a wide receiver.

Than Ted? I think Ted's a better wide receiver than Travis. Really? I think Travis is a better corner than. What's he going to play in the league? If I'm an NFL team and it's my choice and not his choice, he's playing a corner. He's a, he's an insane. By the way, the college football awards voting is so.

screwed up. Travis Hunter didn't win the Jim Thorpe Award, best college DB, but he did win the Blitnikoff Award. I don't, that doesn't make any sense to me. Whatever, sorry. I just, I just had to throw that in there. That just kind of blew my mind. Yeah, Travis is a, he's a corner to me. And maybe he moonlights as a wide receiver. I don't think a team is going to do that, though. I've been pretty steadfast in this. Teams monitor snap counts and workloads so much. you're telling me that this guy's going to play 70 snaps on defense and then no i don't i don't think he's going to but if he's going to play corner i don't think the patriots are going to pick him at three okay because they have good corn yeah it's like christian gonzales and yeah i think they got

to help their team in some different ways okay so do we go if you're hell bent on helping drake you got to go tett then or do you just go defensive go like a mason graham that that'd be a very Jared Mayo pick, I feel like. Right. This is a tough pick, bro. You could argue the draft starts here, you know? Not in Mobile. Do you have any convictions here?

I have none. Great. That's really helpful. Let's try to be more predictive here because that's what we did with the Cam Ward selection. And I think that the Patriots are going to be thinking themselves, we have to do something to help Drake May. All right. And I think that probably lands you on Tet McMillan. Okay. As like, hey, we got to get a receiver here.

And the offensive line, respectfully, just no. Especially if you're like, you're going to draft Will Campbell play tackle at three. Well, they need guards too, Joe. Yeah, but you're not picking a guard at three. But Nelson went six. Will Campbell, respectfully, is not quitting Nelson. Do you think everyone's going to agree with us on this? I've talked to some people and I feel like,

I feel like some O-line guys are pretty, they have some guys in this class they really like. I don't three. No, I'm not saying that three. I'm just in general. Yeah, there's going to be starters. There's going to be good players, but like we're talking about blue chip number three pick and a draft. Yeah. If you're in the middle of the first round, go ahead, pick Will Campbell.

Sure, go right ahead. That'd be nice. Enjoy it. But like, not here. All right. Ted McMillan? Yeah, Ted McMillan. All right.

Move on with our lives here. that gets us to the Jacksonville Jaguars at number four Travis Hunter still on the board yeah that's easy to the podium yeah sprint to the podium right especially like I don't know what they're probably not going to have the same coaches back but Ryan Nielsen certainly came into this year wanting to run a bunch of man coverage that gets this that's a good point I don't think he'll be back but yeah uh number five Carolina Panthers on the clock

they're not taking. Who's that? Ashen Gentie. Yeah, they got a lot of investing's running back. Yeah, and they're not going to have Brooks for another year now. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah. For him. Like, yeah, I mean, to, good for him that he's still like a second round pick, but to like pay Chuba and like trade up for Jordan Brooks, for Jordan Brooks to miss another year. That's just, that's very unfortunate. Panthers need help at corner. They need help on the defense. of wine. They need pass rush. I mean, the best player available is Mason Graham right now. Graham and Brown would be nice. Combo. It would be. Dan Morgan, the general manager there.

We'll see what his priorities are. Because to me, to me, it probably comes down to those two players. Is it Mason Graham or is it Will Johnson? Or do you, I mean, do you value an Abdul Carter or Jane Woodlau. you're harder. Put harder in the mix for sure. Give yourself a little bit more pass rush. Clowny's back. Wanam will be healthy. I mean, none of that precludes any of this. I think you'd probably go Mason Graham.

Get the, yeah. I think the selling point for Mason Graham is, is it's, he's, it's not just a good player. Like that feels like a, a culture builder, right? Like, uh, yeah, get to come in and really be part of their core,

uh, A team building type player, which, of course, you want at number five. All right, we got six through 10 to get through here to close out this mock draft. Folks, be sure to stick with us. All right, Tennessee Titans on the clock here at number six. Hmm. Is this the Will Campbell spot with, you know, is it this? We have Bill Callahan.

Let's give him an offensive line because, dude, they're right, they're right tackle situation with Radunes and Nicholas Petit Friar is a joke. I think they have to look at that. They need quarterback. I don't think any quarterback. I think that conversation's over. Defensively, it feels like we need help on defense, but it feels like we got to do something offensively here, whether that's a receiver,

and I don't necessarily love the idea here, or we do trust that Will Campbell can develop under Bill Callahan. There's no receivers here anyways to take. Right. Yeah, receiver conversation's over for the top 10. Um, yeah, I agree they probably got to go offense. I guess Will Campbell. I guess that's predictively.

Again, I mean, we've kind of done that a few times now where not for us, but sure. It feels very tightensy. I mean, pick Skoronsky. That'd be three in a row, though, three first round alignment in a row. Latham Skoronsky, yeah. It's. All right. We doing it then, Will Campbell?

I guess. All right. All right. Will Campbell, it is. Number six of the Titans. Not for me, Titans. Browns at number seven. I don't have a quarterback for you here.

Sorry. What's that? No, go ahead. I was just talking through their needs. Edge certainly makes sense. Will Johnson feels like the best player. Yeah, they need them too. Emerson stinks.

Newsom Ward. Is this just pick the best player? player and Will Johnson to move on with your life? Either that or Ashen Genty. It really depends on Stefansky. Is he going to be there? Because their identity. I think he's going to be there.

Yeah. I think it's going to be. Yeah, I think you go Will Johnson or Ash and Genty here. All right. So let's do the thing. We've leaned in to predictable, like the predictive side of this. Predictively, do you think Andrew Barry wants to assume he's still the general manager? You think it's going to be the running back or is it going to be Will Johns?

I think. I think he'd lean blue chip talent and go Will Johnson. They might both be blue chip talent. So that would be. Yeah, he's a running back though. Yeah, he's a running back. All right, Will Johnson to the Browns at number seven. That gets us to the New York Jets, who again, another team that their needs don't line up with anything that's available.

Mason Graham would be a slam dunk. Yes. For them. I think that's their biggest problem. They need someone to play with Quinn. You could find that guy later, though. You could get like a Kenneth Grant early round, too, potentially. Oh, if you can get Kenneth Grant round two, then that means the bills in and pick them late in the first round, and I will cry.

I love freaking Kenneth Grant, man. Fair enough. There's a chance. Grant's obviously a first round pick. Definitely a chance. Yeah, I honestly, like, as I study this class, the interior defensive lineman, I feel like I like them more than most. Like, I like Walter Nolan. I like Kenneth Grant.

Those feel like obvious first round picks to me. I love this Shamar Stewart out of Texas A&M. Like, those are all dudes that I'd be, I'd be. interested in picking anywhere from right now beyond. But again, the NFL, I don't know what the valuations are going to be. Yep. That's fair. I like the Tennessee kid, too.

Don't remember his name, but. Oh, Omar Norman Lott. Yes. Yeah. Derek Harmon's a name. You got Tyleek Williams out of Ohio State. Like, you got some defense tackles this year, man. Yep.

So I think you can find a running mate for Quinn. And later, I guess is my point. Okay. What about Abdul Carter here? Kind of give them what they thought they were and get with this on Reddick. They have Will McDonald, Germain Johnson comes back next year. None of that should stop you from Abdul Carter, right? Yeah.

I don't know, though. If you're projecting, like, optimal outcomes, you wouldn't need him because Germain Johnson and Will McDonald get it done for you, right? Yeah. Malachi Stark, I think, is a stud. I don't know if you'd want to. pick him at seven or eight. That's definitely,

you think he can live in this combo safety slot role in the NFL or do you think he's a safety? Oh, I think he can play both, yeah, for sure. So if you're telling me he can play some, some nickel and he's got some positional versatility, I like, I like him in the top 10. This one is just go with it? Yeah, pass rusher.

All right, Malachi Starks, you're a jet. Welcome to the team. Two more picks here. Chicago Bears up next at number. number nine. I mean, good Lord. I know that, like I went in on the helping Caleb Williams. Caleb Williams has enough.

I'm sorry. The offensive line's good enough. The weapons are good enough. Your defense is, I, I would not overlook this opportunity to add a pass rusher. Yeah, I agree. Montes sweat needs help desperately. Yeah. Gervyn Dexter has been a nice little revelation this year, but you need another pass rusher. Whether that's Carter, Jalen Walker, James Pierce,

like, which of these do you like here? probably Carter. Schemeter, though, does that work? Yeah, I'll be honest with you. I think even, first of all, we don't know if their coaches can be. But I think, like, you would be wondering, okay, the even front teams have a role for like Abdul Carter? I think that's true.

I think that teams that run even fronts are finding ways to incorporate these types of players. He also has two years starting. off the ball. Yeah, I don't really like him off the ball, but. No, my point of those, like if you are playing, you know, like in base run downs, if you want him on the field still, you can play Sam linebacker for you. You don't have to. Which I, yeah. That's what I love about Jalen Walker. I think he gives you more appeal as a stackbacker and combo rusher than Carter. Yeah, in my mind.

Less track record as a pass rusher, though, right? Less track record is a pass rusher, but I like what I've seen. If it were me and I had to make a choice between Carter and Walker, and I need to watch more of this season's Carter, I would probably pick Walker. But admittedly, I make that statement saying that I need to see more Carter. Okay. I think from pure pastor standpoint, I probably prefer Carter.

But it's tough. We'll make him the pick here. One more pick to go. New Orleans Saints at number 10. So right now, as things currently stand, Ashton Genti is not a top 10 pick. No. I don't know that I love that because I feel like he will be,

but he will be. Yeah. Well, what was easy for mock drafts previously was Dallas, right? They won that game against Carolina. You just throw him to Dallas and move on with your life. But it's like, and you and I as non-runningback enthusiasts are not the right mix of guys to will mock draft collaborating on to find a spot for a running back at the top 10. But so we will admit that. Yeah.

But, like, respectfully, the Saints just paid freaking Alvin Kamara. Yeah, although he is hurt, though, right? How serious is that? Do we know? I don't know. Okay, yeah. So we'll just pretend like we don't know anything. And we, listen, we know Mickey Loomis is back as a general manager.

True. And he picks, he plays linemen, right? Yeah. So what linemen's he going for here? They could use all of it. They could use inside, outside defense offense. So the highest rated offensive linemen at this point, or highest rated lineman, like, I don't know, James Pierce.

I like Shamar Stewart a ton. Yep. Walter Nolan's here. Walter Nolan this high? I love them, yeah. I would do it. And for them, like, Jordan's aging, Chase Young's a expiring contract. Like, edge, they have Bree Z and they have some other guys on the interior.

Like, if we want to make this mostly needs based, I would say the edge rusher over the interior on defense. Okay. So is if we think edge rusher, do you like your best option? Nick Scorton, that's too high for me. I don't know if you like him more. Shemar Stewart, Mikel Williams. I need to watch him more. James Pierce.

Scorton's tape is just so all over the place. Yeah, I don't know what to do is Scorton. Weird body frame. Like, what's funny about Nick Scorton is when I talked about him previously on Lacked on NFL scouting, I said, I think with Nick Scorton, you draft him and hope that he turns into Cam Jordan. Oh, here we are. Yeah, here we are.

Yeah. I wouldn't do it. wouldn't do it. I wouldn't pick him at 10. Who do you really like if the guys available? Stewart or Pierce. Okay. But they're opposite players. Completely opposite players. True.

Stewart's lack of production scares me, man. Yeah, that's been my problem with a lot of these players I've watched. Like, even Walter Nolan. Like, I watch Walter Nolan and Shamar Stewart. I'm like, I love these guys. And then I go back and I look at their stats and I'm like, what? How? Yeah, give me, James Pierce.

James Pierce. 60 plus pressures the last couple years, 20 plus sacks. I feel like that. You okay with that? Yeah, it's in the books. So our mock draft, Raiders won. Quarterback,

Shadoer, Stewart, Scheder, Stewart, Sheduer Sanders out of Colorado, number two, Cam Ward, quarterback Miami to the Giants. Number three, the Patriots, get Ted McNill and the wide receiver out of Arizona. Number four, the Jaguars, Travis Hunter, football player out of Colorado.

Panthers at number five, get Mason Graham. defensive lineman out of Michigan. At number six, the Titans can't stop drafting offensive lineman, Will Campbell out of LSU. Another Michigan Wolverine here at number seven. The Browns get Will Johnson out of Michigan. At number eight, Malachi Stark's safety defensive back out of Georgia to the Jets. At number nine, Abdul Carter, Penn State Edge Rusher to the Bears at number 10, James Pierce, edge rusher, Tennessee to the Saints. Okay, before we get out of here, Is there a pick you don't like that we just made? Yeah, I don't like most of them.

I guess that's what happens when you do a predictive. Yeah. Yeah, like I'm looking at players, I just, I wouldn't pick in these spots, which it's going to be fun because, you know, you and I are very much do your own work. We don't like buy in a group think on prospects. So our draft conversations that are coming will be fun. And I mean, you and I have been talking prospects for a long time. And I think for as much as we know each other,

I think there's also that layer of like, oh, wow, really, I'm surprised you had that opinion. So we'll have some fun draft conversations coming up. And I know that you're chomping at the bit. Dude, my brain's almost fully switched over, unfortunately. Which is not supposed to be the case. We have three weeks left in the regular season. And our teams are vying for number one seats.

I know. Super Bowl aspirations. You've got to reprogram our brains here, you know? I know, I know, I got to get back on track talking NFPA. NFL ball. We'll be back Thursday, right, Joe? Hopefully. Or no, actually, we might not be back Thursday. We just got to figure that out. Shout out to Brett Whitefield. This is his flu game. My guy is not feeling well. He hasn't eaten. He's been sick. It's had to personal circumstances. I'm a difficult, but shout out to you, man, for getting through this show and being here for the people. Well,

thank you, sir. We'll do our best to make something happen for Thursday. If not, we'll see you next week. But as always, thank you so much for listening. And remember, folks, no matter what develops, We will always be your first read. We are out.