Fantasy Football Daily - College Football Playoff Selection, David Carr Loses His Mind, Penalties | Take Talk Podcast

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

Steve O'Rourke (@callmesteveo7) and Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) take on a little bit of everything in this week's Take Talk, including the college football playoff controversy, David Carr insulting Jalen Hurts, a debatable Bruce Irvin penalty call, and the entire AFC South. SIGN UP FOR FANTASY POINTS WITH CODE GURRIFIC25 AT CHECKOUT FOR 25% OFF: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ READ DR. EDWIN PORRAS' INJURY [PRO]NE GUIDE WITH CODE INJURYPRONE25: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://injuryproneguide.myshopify.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Want to join a high-stakes dynasty league -- or any other high-stakes league? All new FFPC users get $25 off their first FFPC league of $35 or more, including dynasty orphans, using our affiliate link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://myffpc.com/cms/public?affid=fantasypoints⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FANTASY POINTS PROJECTIONS ARE LIVE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FOR ALL STANDARD AND PREMIUM SUBSCRIBERS! Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use our code FANTASYPTS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoints.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Welcome in to another episode of the TikTok podcast. I'm your host, Brett Whitefield, and I'm with my host, Stephen O'Rourke. Steve, good morning to you, sir. How are you? Good morning.

I am doing pretty good. We buried my grandma yesterday, which was a weird, you know, it was a weird reality of like happy but sad because she was 93. So it was nice because I got to see a lot of my extended family that I don't get to see it very often. And we all kind of drank and enjoyed it. So it was a nice time. It was nice, but it's good to be back. Good to have everything back on track. Awesome.

Yeah. Sorry for your loss, by the way. And sometimes death does do a good job of bringing people together. So that is the one nice part about that. But all right, well, we got a lot to talk about, Steve. So yes, we do. We want to do an unusual format today. I wanted to kind of do like a football smorgasbord, if you will.

There's a few topics I really wanted to get into. And then at the end, we'll sort of do like a week 13 roundup. I specifically want to talk AFC South. Yeah. The division has turned into a bloodbath. Yeah. like a total war but um anyways let's uh let's start i want to start with the college football playoffs even i know this is an NFL show but the the CFB does relate to the NFL quite a bit because

a lot of these players in the playoff you will see in the NFL on on Sundays so yes gut reaction what did you think of the selection committee's decision i mean being biased and being a person that cheers for texas i was happy with it it. I was fine with it. I didn't even know about you, by the way. Huh? I didn't even know that about you. Yeah, it's not like super heavy fandom because I have no relation to Texas whatsoever. I just was like 10 and like Vince Young and off we went. But I understand both sides. And so I was fine with it. I understand the whole goal of the college football playoff is to get the four best teams. And I understand the argument behind Ohio State and how, like, yes, they, you know, back when they had

Cardale Jones. The only pushback I have on that is that we saw this, I think his name was Matt Glenn, was the third string freshman quarterback for Florida State against Louisville. He did not look good. He did not look good. And I think off of that, there's not really a world where you can say that Florida State is a top four team with him at the helm. And that sounds like that's who would be leading them through the playoffs. And so it's unfortunate and it sucks because, you know, it's been a while since Florida State's been good. And I understand the fans are excited and all that. But the whole goal of this is to get the four best teams. And I think with Matt Glennon, quarterback, Florida State's not one of the four best teams. And it sucks to say it. You hate to have

to be that blunt and have to, you know, break it to those people, the coaches the players because they, you know, they earned it. And I, you know, there is a world where they deserve it. But I get it. And so I'm, fine with it. So you, you, you agree to the decision. Um, I predicted the decision. Like, I laid out who I would pick if I was the committee for my four teams. They nailed it exactly how I had it. Even the slots that had each team in. Yeah. I think the thing that surprised me about all this, Steve is how emotional people were about this. Oh, yeah. It is crazy. Like there is some flared tempers. There are some just pure guttural emotion, people really feeling for Florida State and feeling like they got screwed and I guess I just don't see it.

I'll take this a step further. I think if I were the committee, I would have put Oregon in before Florida State. I agree with you. Yeah. And Georgia too, obviously. I would have put Georgia in. Ohio's in well. No, I think I would.

I mean, I think you might like Florida State that puts them at what? That puts them at eight overall, which I think is right with the current state of their team. And again, it's not their fault. It could have happened to arguably any team that was going through the playoff. It could have happened to anyone. It just, and it sucks that it's an injury that keeps you out. But hey, listen, it's an entertainment thing.

And this is all for entertainment value. And they have a duty to put the four best teams in. I agree. And you empirically have to say that Florida State is not one of the best four teams. with their backup, let alone the third string. I know people keep citing the Ohio State precedents. I hate that. I hate people throw around precedence.

Like we're in some like courtroom or we're passing congressional bills here. Precedents. There's no judicial precedence here because it's a freaking football. It's not it's not lawmaking. It's 13 people in a room picking football team. Right. Let's not get this twisted. Yes.

So anyways, the precedence of Cardell Jones. the difference there was we got cardell for what three games before the committee had to yes and he freaking annihilated everybody so yes he that's a massive difference in her if you asked me did they get him did they get him that long i thought they just got him because he it was at least won the barrett championship game right barrett got her against uh michigan wasn't it yeah you got hurt against michigan so cardale finished the game against michigan they won that and then they went to the big 10 championship either way you had see the proof was there of like like, okay, this offense doesn't really skip a beat with him in there.

Yeah. No, it was three full games. Oh, wow. Okay. Let's see, Wisconsin. He was 12 for 17 for 257 yards and three touchdowns. Alabama. Oh, okay.

I'm sorry. I lied to you. He played three games. He played three games. Yeah, so it was. Two of them were the college football playoff. So it was one game in which he looked fantastic. Yeah.

Anyways, I digress. Let's see then But yeah I mean just to cut I'll just to fill air So we're not just sitting here Yeah true But it just like

Louisville lost to Kentucky the week prior They had lost some ugly games And Florida State not They had to go in and beat Really beat down Louisville To prove the point And they just didn't do that I mean I think I saw

I watched the first half of the game which I think the score was like six to nothing six to six at half which is ugly already against a not amazing Louisville team but the past as I saw Glenn attempt it was like oh no

this isn't like he's a freshman he's a freshman and that's the thing there's nothing against him this is nothing against him this is nothing against his future who he can be as a quarterback but he's a freshman a true freshman start like and he just didn't have it.

And that's okay. And it doesn't mean that he won't have it in two years or they might not be back next year. But it just isn't, this isn't their year. And hey, I mean, the 12 team playoff is coming. I think it starts next year. You know what's crazy, Steve? It's like, well, when they pass the 12 team playoff thing, people were excited that like enjoy college football. But non-colleball fans are kind of like, well, that seems excessive.

We've never had a situation where it was needed. And then finally the last year of the 14 playoff, all held in this. And you can make the argument for for sure eight teams. Yeah. And then there's, you know, the four other solid teams that would round out the top 12.

Yeah. I do think like it's interesting because like Oregon, I already mentioned a two loss organ I'd put in over Florida State with their current QB situation. Like Oregon annihilated basically everybody except for Washington and they had to play them twice. And they, you know, they lost close games of Washington. Exactly.

And in fact, like a lot of people, the general overwhelming consensus was that Oregon was going to beat Washington in that game. They were nine and a half point favorites, which I still to the, which I still to this day. And I don't know,

I don't know if there will be a day that will come in my life, that I won't ever, that I won't not understand that. Yeah. Didn't get it when it came out, didn't understand it while the game was playing. I don't know how, like,

that was one where it was like what, like, I didn't get, I mean, it had people questioning. a lot of things where it's like, what does Vegas know? Because you hear that sometimes, and that was one of them where you're like, what does Vegas know that they're putting Oregon as nine and a half point favorites?

And then you watch the game and you're like, oh, maybe they just didn't know anything. And it was, and Washington's actually legit. I think because every, I think that was the big thing is a lot of people, we're kind of waiting for the wheels to fall off with panics and with Washington in general. Yep. And it just never happened because he's a good player. They're a good team. They're well-rounded on offense.

their offensive versatility is insane because they have it's so good weapons with adunes and McMillan they can hit you from a lot of angles throwing the ball and then they also can grind it out on the run game they remind me of Michigan like offensively Michigan style but they have premium pass catchers where Michigan does not right right so that's that's interesting but all right anyways let's move on I wanted to hit

Zach Wilson discussion Steve so I don't know if you heard but there was rumors like Monday afternoonish, it came out that he wasn't too comfortable with the idea of coming back on the field to start a football game for the Jets. Now that's shot down a hundred times now by the Jets organization and because everyone taking, you know, oh no, Zach, you know, he's 100% committed.

He's in it to win it, yada, yada. And we haven't heard from Zach yet, ironically. But either way, let's just for argument's sake, let's play hypothetical game. Let's say Zach Wilson was indeed uncomfortable with starting another game. In a way, is he vindicated for that sentiment? Not getting into a psychology of it. I'm a firm believer.

And when you're on a team, you do whatever you're asked to do to help win. Yes. That's true. I'm not saying it would be a good thing. I just think in a way, with where the Jets are as an organization, their inability to protect their quarterbacks with an offensive line that can do anything. and the tug and poll for Zach Wilson of your starter, you're not a starter, you're a starter, we're trading for a Hall of Famer.

You're a starter because he's hurt. Now you're not a starter. Now you're a starter. It's like, I mean, can you blame the guy? If he's just like, you know what? No, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not going out there with that offensive line. I'm just not doing it.

You can't blame him at all because I think he's also thinking about his longevity in the NFL and his career in the NFL. And unfortunately, the longer he steps out on the field. And I'm not, I don't think it's today's of the day to get into, you know, is Zach Wilson a starter, future starter in the NFL that it would probably be a quick conversation. But he still has to think about himself a little bit. And that's, it's just not productive for him to put himself out there and play on that

offense behind that offensive line with the weapons that they don't have at receiver. And, you know, continue to put out. tape that he has to justify later when free agency comes around because I'm pretty sure the jets and them or not. I'm pretty sure the ship is sailed and he's going somewhere else. But you're going to have to answer for the film when it comes time to get signed by another team. And I think in his head, it's like the more I put out and have to play behind this garbage

offensive line. And, you know, I don't, who knows what's going on in his head and where he's putting blame and all that. I can't, you know, I can't speak to that. I don't think any of us can't. But he's got to, I get it. He's got a thing for himself. And I think that he is vindicated because they're going to keep trotting out people.

And, you know, it's going to be not even replacement level guys. And they're not going to be good. That's just that we've seen it. The proof is in the pudding. It's we're 13 weeks in now. I think we know what's coming. And so I agree with you on, I agree with you that like, yeah, Zach Wilson.

you know, if it's me, I'm, you know, the way I was raised, the way I think is like, yeah, if you get the opportunity, you go out there and play and you make the most of it and control what you can control. But at the same time, hey, he's got a career to think about. And I don't think he wants to retire at age 23, forcefully retire at age 23. And so he's got to think about himself a little bit. So I get it. If it is true that he said that he was like, no, thanks.

No, thank you, actually. Someone else can do it. I think he's, I think he is vindicated. He has a point to do it. Yeah, so the tape is definitely a huge part of this, right? Like, he's already put out plenty of bad tape. Yeah. So I imagine he understands that as well and knows that that could greatly impact him

and moving forward. Now, I kind of think maybe it doesn't matter as much as people realize because the tape has been so bad. I think he's going to get some type of backup contract come compete in camp kind of contract. Yeah. It's a Trubisky situation where maybe, you know, he was the number two overall picks. So he's going to have a chance. He'll have a chance. He will like the NFL does not let those guys go away gracefully. Right, right. So there's that aspect. But the injury thing is huge to me because the jets are given up like a 41% pressure rate on the year, which is insane. And that is with modest time to throw and time to pressure numbers to or time to sorry time to throw numbers there's like 12

quarterbacks who have a higher time to throw than wilson yeah it's not even like he's holding the ball forever like we're used to him doing he's actually kind of a little bit more diligent about getting that ball out the time to pressure numbers like 2.4 seconds which is lightning fast by the way yeah that's that's insane they're giving up a lot of pressure and they're giving it up fast he just has nowhere to go the football so there's an injury concern there as well and there's just a reality of like you can't do much when you're under pressure that often. It's just really hard to get something going. It'd be really hard for him to put some good tape up.

So, yeah. Anyways, I do think he's a little vindicated if that was his true sentiment. But ultimately, I think he comes out. He plays football for the Jets and it is what it is. So yeah. All right, moving on. Steve, did you happen to see one David Carr, David Carr, former NFL QB brother to current NFL QB.

He kind of mouthed off about one, Jalen Hertz on his show or on whatever show he's a part of. I think it's an ESPN show, if I'm not mistaken. I think it's NFL network. Is it network? Yeah, but that's not important. No, but the general consensus of what he said was that Jalen Hertz should be benched for Marcus Marioata. And I do think he meant that in a temporary order. Yes.

Yes. which in one world there's maybe an argument for that. I think the part that I think was crazy and triggered a lot of people is he said that Hertz can't read defenses. Yeah. And if the 49ers come into Philly again, it doesn't matter, yada,

yada, because they can't score points. I just, it's weird that, you know, he's absolving the Philly defense for giving up six straight touchdown drives. Right. He put him in it all on Jail-Hertz.

Anyways, you saw your thoughts when you saw it? I thought he took off the plane kind of well. Like I could see his like the train of thought that he was going down. But he lost me in the middle of things when he started saying like, oh, Jalen Hertz can't read a defense and oh, Marcus Mariotta gives him a better chance to win and all these things. Because I mean, if you've seen, we've all seen Marcus Marioata tape. we saw him in Atlanta last year.

He's not an upgrade over it. Because the whole basis of the argument is that Jalen Hertz is kind of injured. We've all seen it. You can clearly see the running is hampered. You know, lateral quickness isn't what it is when he's fully healthy. And so, like, his argument is that, oh, well, because of that, he's not, like, he's not as good. Like, he's not as good. Like, Marcus Mariotta.

And he will, I don't know, improve the office. And I just don't agree with any of that. I don't agree. Like I like the basis of his argument of like, well, get Jalen, basically he's saying get Jalen Hurts healthy. I think. I think that's what he, the basis of his argument is. Okay. It's just that I don't think that Marcus Mario does the answer.

And that's the problem. If, if you were to tell me Jalen Hertz is critically injured and we don't think we have a shot to win the Super Bowl in his current state. let's play Mario da for a week or two to get him right. I can sign off on that. Yes. Where I don't like where he took the conversation is the baseline of, I think what he was saying is you can't run the Eagles offense that has been super dynamic to its fullest capacity with hurts being injured.

Right. The problem with that is change what you're doing then. Yeah. Don't keep doing the same things over and over. And I've complained about this to Chris. privately. I've complained about it on this show. I've complained about it on matchup points. My show with John.

I complained about it every Wednesday morning on Guru in the morning show on Sirius XM. The Philadelphia offense puts way too much on Hertz's plate as far as checkdowns when he's hot. There's just not a lot of answers for hot in that offense. There's not a lot of in-breaking routes. The whole offense is Hertz having to create and just be not only a dude, but the dude that just is untouchable and he's not able to do that right now with his with his injury but he's still a very effective quarterback and when yes when you as a quarterback who you know i'm assuming david car knows how to evaluate tape although maybe he doesn't he took a lot of hits in in the league and he didn't play

very well at any point in his career so maybe he doesn't know how to evaluate tape but anyone that knows football can watch jalen hurts and find hundreds of examples of him reading through progressions this is not an issue that he has this is it's so crazy to me that's even being discussed because there are plenty of of quarterbacks in the league that have that issue. Jalen Hertz is not one of them. So I just need a bit of the whole discussion. To imply that like,

oh, he can't read an offense. Get Marriota in there because. Oh, God. Thank you. Because he can better. Right. No,

I don't think so. I actually pretty much know so that that's not the case. Because again, if you're arguing, if you want to make the argument that Mariotta at the current state that he's in compared to Jalen Hertz is a more dynamic runner and can escape the pocket and run the RPO's and you know, the,

and read options and things like that better than Jalen Hertz. Okay, that's fine. If you want to say that he's not even fine, it's not even fine. But like if you want to argue that his athleticism right now at full health compared to Jalen Hertz where we don't think he's healthy, that I'm okay.

Make that argument. But don't take, don't double, triple down and start saying that because of that Mario does then a better passer. a better leader of defenses. Like, no, no. And that's, and again, I agree with you that, I think that this is just pointing out all the flaws in the Philadelphia offense.

Yeah. And pointing out, it's, it's the fact that David Carr can even get to this point is like, okay, we've kind of gone off the rails and how this offense has run. Because, yeah, like, I think Jalen Hertz ran it like two times against the 14. 49ers and the offense did look stunted at times, but don't come, don't come at us and say that Mario does the better option, you know, for overall,

because it's just not true. Jalen Hertz is a bet, like if you want to, if you want to take out the read option stuff, if you want to take out the stuff that gets Jalen Hertz on the move with like actually running the ball, that I think the offense would be fine. I think if you just stunted,

you know, stunted his responsibilities a little bit for now. until he gets fully healthy and you know call some actual passing concepts how about that why is mariotta a bust it's because he was drafted second overall yeah based on athletic traits that we thought could

he could epitomize the modern NFL QB here's the problem none of the athleticism was functional at the NFL level for mariotta in fact his passer rating win out of structure is worse in the league he's not an accurate thrower on the run or out of structure on the move.

He hasn't been decisive running the football either. He's never been great at that, even though he's a supreme athlete. So even all of those athletic traits you would be hoping to capture by bringing Mario out on the field, you're not going to get them because he's never been good at it at the NFL level. So it's completely moot in my opinion. The only argument to bench Jalen Hertz right now is just to get him healthy for the Super Bowl run. Yes. The problem is they're fighting.

They're in a dog fight for the number one seed and they're not going to want to concede that to anybody. So no, and I mean, and now because of the loss to San Francisco and with the game against Dallas looming. Yeah. They have a, there's a potential, like, there's a fight for the division in general. So I don't think you want to lose. You definitely, like, you don't want to lose the one C, but you definitely don't want to lose your division because you, you want to be able to play, you know, every, obviously every team as you can at home. Yeah. It's funny because, uh, as a Detroit.

someone who lives in Detroit, Detroit fans have been rooting against Philly all year because the ones, Philly is now a spot where they're going to be rooting for the Lions pretty heavily. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyways, let's move on. Last smorgasbord discussion here. Bruce Irvin, Lions Edge Rusher recently signed. He's 36 years old.

Yep. Got hit with a roughing the passer penalty the other day. And it was, you know, cited under the bus. body weight rule. Yep. I tweeted on X, sorry, I X'd that I don't know how that was a roughing the passenger penalty. And I was met with quite negative ire.

Yeah. I received some crazy DMs, some of the replies, do you savoury themselves. I was accused of being a lion's homer, and that's why I didn't understand why it was a penalty. And I just want to say to all those people, you're not smart. if you actually objectively watch the play, you can understand why that should not have been a roughing the passenger penalty.

I'll read you the rule, word for word, okay? And this is part of the issue with NFL rulebook, by the way, is it is purposely subjective. Yes. Because they don't want to hold the referees accountable. It is purposely subjective. I'm going to read this rule to you. A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts

as stuffing a passer into the ground or unnecessary. wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball. By the way, this is hilarious. Such intimidating acts. I know. That made me actually that made me laugh. This is freaking football, guys. Okay, cool.

All right. Even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within one step, within the one step limitation provided for an A above, when tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture, a defensive player must not unnecessarily. or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender's weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to fall to the side of the quarterback's body or to brace his fall with his arms to avoid landing on the quarterback with his body weight.

Now, if you watch that play objectively, Steve, what you will find is when Derek Carr, it's funny, both the Carr brothers are subject to conversation this morning. I wonder why. when Derek Carr throws that ball. He's getting hit as he throws by Bruce Irvin. Derek Carr's feet come off of the ground. Yes. And if you understand physics, if you, like, imagine trying to tackle a guy who's not on the ground.

Right. What's going to happen to you? You're going to fall like a freaking brick thrown off the building. Like, Derek Carr is the one who put himself in risk. And this is where like when Tom Brady went off a couple months ago about how soft the league is getting and quarterbacks have all these rules to protect them. But yet they never think for one second they need to protect themselves. This is what he's talking about. This is exactly what he's talking about.

Derek Carr put himself at risk by leaving the ground with his feet. Yeah. While he was throwing the football. And it was just a bang, bang, bang play. Bruce Ervin should not have been flagged for that. And I bet you the NFL comes out and finds Bruce Irvin for that. 100%. A hundred percent.

100%. that all happened. And even the rules analyst came on. It was like, this is textbook. What we're, yeah? What about that play was unnecessarily or violently thrown?

Bruce Irvin hit a player that was not on the ground and physics happened. He's, I mean, yeah, he, it was at that, I mean, honestly,

if you look at the, at like how to form tackle, that was a, that was, what it was was, it was a textbook form tackle. His head was to the side. He drove his shoulder into the midriff of the quarterback, not going high, not going low.

And like you said, Derek Carr was, he didn't leave his feet, never left his feet. Bruce Irvin didn't at least. But like you said, Derek Carr is, he was airborne. He had nothing planted to the ground. So he's six inches. He's dry. He got a shoulder into his midriff. And guess what?

Because he doesn't have anything planted, there's no like pivot point. So it's just the body full. holding into the ground. Right. I mean, and like, yeah, that's like you said, it's just physics. Go outside to your yard. Give it a run. Tackle a bag of leaves when it's stationary and planted on the ground.

See how that falls. And then have a friend throw the bag up in the air and then you do the same motion, same speed, drive and like tackle it. It's going to feel more forceful when it's off the ground because there's just no, there's nothing planted. It's just this free flowing, free flying body or thing of matter. And that's exactly what Derek Carr was. And yeah, he was trying to make a play.

And he, I like sometimes. And that's the thing is I think that like with that, that's the rule has gone a little bit too far. Because I think that three, four years ago, if pressure was in your face like that, a lot of quarterbacks would have done the thing where they just kind of spin and fall of the ground. Yeah. But because they know that, hey, there's about a seven inch box that that defender has to hit. And also he has to somehow slide off to the side and brace himself. I don't have to do anything.

So let's just rip it. And, you know, best case scenario, I get the ball. I get a completion. Worst case scenario. I get a penalty. He just perfectly. For them. You perfectly segue into how I wanted to end this discussion.

The way the rules are right now, it actually. actually is incentivizing. By the way, these rules are designed to protect quarterbacks. Right. The way they're set up, it's actually incentivizing

quarterbacks to take massive shots in the pocket. Yeah. Because they know they can step into a throw, get absolutely walloped, but at worst, it's going to be a 15-yard penalty. Yeah. It's kind of crazy to me.

But anyways, I don't think the application of the rule was correct. This also kind of shines a light on on another issue in the NFL. And if you, even if you don't agree with me on the Bruce servant thing, I think you'll agree with this. And that's,

there needs to be a common sense protocol in the NFL where a penalty is called or a flag is picked up. And New York can just call down to the field and say, hey, like why do you have a rules expert on Fox if you can't even get it right on the field? Like let's, let's, you have rules expert on every single network now.

Every single network. You have Stereator, you have Blandino, you have Francesa, you have, what is it, Joe Testatory, is it? I forget the ESPN guy. Like, you have one on every single network who is live on the feed there to evaluate every single call. So if the networks can do that, why can't you do that and where it doesn't require a coach's flight?

I'm not saying we challenge pass interference or roughing the passer, but just simple where flag was thrown. New York's going to call down and said, yep, that was a violation or nope, that wasn't a violation. Yeah. And then make your decision that way. Right now, it's, it's so subjective. And we live in a technological era. Steve, there's no reason the officiating should be this bad. And that was, by the way, the Lions game was one of the cleaner games of the week.

It was. If you watched football this weekend, you wanted to throw yourself off a freaking bridge for how bad the officiating it was. What was the other one? There was a game that was just a disaster. I don't remember now. Oh, the Chiefs game. Oh yeah Yeah yeah

Dude that that chiefs game was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen And it impacted both teams You know at different moments of the game Down the stretch though the chiefs like The out of bounds play Where they stopped the clock on that Like the chief should have had a rolling clock right there

Do you know what I'm talking about on the left final drive? Yeah yeah yeah They unnecessarily stopped the clock for the chiefs That should be something where New York stops the time. Hey, he, he was not out of bounds. Like he was going backwards when he was tackled. Right.

That should be a rolling clock. The, the review that happened because the fumble or catch, non-catch, that should have invoked the 10-second runoff, Steve. Yep. They forgot about that rule, apparently. They don't forget about that rule in other situations, but they forgot about that one. How does it even happen?

How do you just forget about a rule? I know. It's, I, like, again, I don't know if it's just the scrutinizing is at an all-time high, but like this season in general feels like it's been the most, like, we say this. Bad calls. We do. We do. This season is the worst, but it is getting progressive. But I think it is the worst.

Like, I definitively think it is the worst. Yeah. And I think a big part of it is, holy cow, one, I like, I don't want, I really don't want to get into a rough discussion. But I, like, it's a lot of old. guys, they need to get some youth in there and they need to have some semblance of like, I don't know, training and things. Because like the bad, that's the, I mean, it is. It's the big, I don't know. It's the big thing that it's talked about. They're all, it's a lot of old guys. It's a lot of like they work half the year. They don't work a full time job. They're professionals. Most of these guys are lawyers and doctors. Right. They're, they're, it's a hobby for them. Exactly. And you're all. And they're making the calls on the. biggest stage of sports arguably outside of the world top a full-time officiating crew steve how is this a

thing i don't know you have a you are a multi-billion dollar organization and pay i mean they pay them really well they like those guys make really good money but they also work for half the year and then they go and do everything else the rest of the week the rest of the year i've heard some old heads on talk radio or whatever talk about why the nifl doesn't have full-time staff and the argument is they because it's a shorter it's only an 18 week season they feel like they're being overpaying oh good oh god i don't know what officials make in the nfl the the problem is is is the nfl is a year long endeavor at this point you can send those refs to rookie minicamp you can you know they can like if you ever been to nfl training camp they hire refs to come out yes

and work the seven-on-sevons and the 11-on-levens and even the one-on-ones for past Yeah. Yep. Okay, send your professional rest there. Every team gets a crew in training camp. Every team gets a, you know, Ricky Mini Camp. We're sending a crew out. You can keep these guys busy.

I mean, if that's really the hurdle that it's only an 18-week season, then that's not a hurdle to me. You can, you can figure that out. So anyways. Yeah. I didn't want to get into the rough discussion specifically, but it led there because inevitably, that's always does. Yeah. That's the nature of it. Yeah.

And then also for the people who called me a homer on the Bruce Ervin thing, the Lions defense is one of the worst I've ever seen on third and long. That was a third and long play. There's a chance that, you know, they convert that like nine out of ten times. It happened to be the one they didn't of the day. So whatever. But all right, let's finish that up. We're going to jump into a week 13 roundup, as I mentioned early in the show.

Just real quickly, Steve, I wanted to look at the chaos in the NFL after the week 13. and specifically the AFC South because something crazy has happened that I kind of snuck up on me. Maybe that's my bad. But the Jacksonville Jaguars like a week ago, we were talking about them catching the chiefs

for the number one seed. Yeah. And now you blinked and they're like, wait a second. They got a locked on their division first. Like this is crazy. The Colts are seven and five. The Texans are seven and five.

The Jaguars are eight and four. And with the schedules remaining, dude I don't know I don't know the scales tip in the Jags favor

real quick the Colts have to go to Cincinnati this week without you know Joe Burrow

a winnable game yeah then they host the Steelers then they go to Atlanta that's a winnable game

then they finish the year hosting the Raiders and then the divisional important divisional game against the Texans

at home in Indianapolis the Texans go to the Jets. That's a tough game for the Texans, but winnable. Who knows who their quarterback is? Right.

Go to Tennessee. Then they host to Cleveland, host the Titans, and then on the road to the Colts. Not that tough of a schedule, though, Steve. The Jags... With home games in there,

which is nice. With some home games in there. The Jags, five remaining games, three of them are on the road. The one of the games they host is against Baltimore. That's not an easy game.

They have to go to Cleveland. Cleveland and win and this playing in Cleveland this time of year sucks yeah rain or snow every someday garen freaking teed it's going to be cold there's a yes it's going to hit you hard my defense hits you hard that that wind is disgusting by the way like yeah the lake erie wind in Cleveland is yes we know that um then they got to travel to Tampa which is basically a bus ride for them but um and then and then they host carolina and then they got to go on the road the last game of the season against the Titans by the way the Titans aren't even out of this for what it's worth right i mean right

they're pretty out of it but they're not like completely i don't think we've buried them yet if that's kind of what i'm trying to say yeah what is the record is it six and six five and seven uh five and seven i believe four and eight never mind they are out of where they're okay they're done oh yeah because they lost they lost this week in uh yeah um but man this looked like jacksonville was competing for a once it maybe they still are chiefs could fall right sure but it's like their focus needs a not be on the one seat and moron like hey we just have to win games and win this division you know right well now it's not even about the chiefs it's about baltimore well true true you know but either way yes

what what looked like them walking away with a win against Cincinnati and they'd be perfectly set up to kind of take control of that and be you know and be in control of their own destiny with a game with having to play baltimore and everything but now yeah it's kind of a fight and houston's coming quick and obviously losing. So I'm not a doctor, but I have had the injury that Trevor Lawrence had when I was in high school. I was out a week. And it obviously it's different. I meant to mention that he's hurt now.

Yeah. So he, Trevor Lawrence got hurt. He got rolled up on. He separated the ligament. He kind of sprained the ligament that connects the tibia and the fibula, which first of all, the fact that he didn't tear his ACL or any other. ligaments in there is actually pretty impressive. Like, that's usually the first to go before you get to that ligament that connects those to.

But if you do do it the way Trevor Lawrence did, again, I'm not a professional athlete. I am not an NFL player. But I did have the injury. I was out a week. I was good in an knee brace after that for, after a week off. So there's a world where Trevor Lawrence is only out a week at most, maybe even comes back this week if they're able to, you know, get him rehabbed a little bit. So I don't like this isn't a huge issue long term.

His lateral quickness will be affected a little bit, I think. But you've seen that too with the knee, remember? Right. And so they're in a dog fight though. And it's not, I'm not really that worried about the offense overall. I think they've been moving it well. And what concerns me is that they got picked apart pretty heavily on defense against Cincinnati. By Jake Browning.

Jake Browning looks really good. But. Shockingly. he did. Yes, he did. But that is what's more concerning to me is that their defense has that ability to show up for some games and then just have breakdowns on the back end. It is. It's a lot of back end breakdowns between like linebackers and the secondary. And that's what concerns me the most coming down the stretches. Are they able to clean that stuff up? Or are they going to keep getting shredded for, you know, 25 plus points? Because that's,

puts a lot of strain on your offense. What's crazy is Josh Allen is arguably one of the biggest, well, he was already a good player, but he's taking another step this year. He's been so good this year. Even in that game, Steve, he had like a sack and a half. He had another two hits on the quarterback. He had a couple TFLs in the run game.

He had an interception. A past offended. That was the worst. That was the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. Like, Todd, what are you? thinking Tyler Boyd. But anyway, yeah, he had a great game. Played really well.

Yeah. It is funny, too, that the Bengals started Jake Browning in that game. And there are two worst past plays where Jamar Chase throwing the ball and Tyler Boyd throwing the ball. And you're like, I get though, you put those on the play sheet because you're like, we're going to probably need some extra oomph to move the ball there. Yeah. But now, Jake Brian's like, no, I got this.

Like, why are we doing this crap with Tyler Boyd? Right. Right. That guy on the ball, though, that dude is about to get paid. Yes. If the Jags don't want to afford it, I know a team in the Midwest who desperately needs a pass rusher opposite Aid Hutchinson. Just go get them, man. Especially now that.

Franks truck it. Yeah. But I doubt you let that happen, though. They're going to. No, you can't. I don't think you can let John, you can't let a player of that caliber at that position walk. The versatility is scary. Yes.

You need to think, because you feel confident about him. dropping into coverage and like you know not having a it's it's a he plays similarly to tj watt where you you feel you feel really good about him dropping into space and it's not a complete and total like loss if you do that because that's like you know we have that argument we've had that argument over the years of just different different pass rushers where like teams will drop him in his space and you're like why would you waste him in space just send him at the quarterback every single time. But Josh Allen and T.J. Watt are different animals and they work well. Hutch. They have a hutch in there too. Hutch as well. They are guys that work well in space and

understand spacing of kind of like short route concepts and things like that. So they're able to be effective. The route diagnosing and recognition from those guys is different. A lot of times you drop a I call them fatties. You drop a fatty into space. They don't know like they haven't studied what routes they might get hit with. They don't really know what they're tracking or what concepts. this. Yeah. Especially defensive end is the most brain dead position in the league. Like, I mean, I'm not, I'm not just BSing. Every coach would tell you if there's one position, you could just insert from college to pro and not expect a lot of training. It's a defense event. Like, it's literally C ball get ball. I mean, it's, you know, don't lose your gap. C ball,

get ball. That's basically it. Whatever your technique is, whatever your style is, just go do it. Like, it doesn't really matter. So, yeah, but for those guys, they definitely have an innate understanding. of what offenses are trying to do and that helps them in coverage for sure. Yeah. So one thing about this division, Steve, the AFC South is last year, this was considered widely the worst division in football.

Yes. And now you have three playoff teams, playoff caliber teams. Tennessee, I think their record is probably worse than they've played. They've been competitive and it feels like every game, right? And they've... Yeah, yeah.

Especially at home. They're really good at home. And then on the road, they've had some tough losses. But it's crazy that this division's turned it around that fast. I guess that's what good drafting can do for you, right? Yeah. And then the Colts are doing it without their quarterback. Like, MNshu looks pretty good.

Like, we know he's what he is. He is what he is. We know that. But that run game with Minchu, the RPO's, the stiking offense. Like, that's all working in Indy. I did not expect them to be seven and five, especially without Anthony Richardson. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and Minchu, Sykin knows Minshu, and he knows how to get the most out of Minchu, and they're doing it. It's really every single team in this division outside of Tennessee right now, they're actually kind of the inverse of the other three is who can get a stop when it matters. Right. Because up until this point, it felt like Jacksonville was probably your best bet, but after the way to play against, man. it's it's there's a lot to question i mean Houston secondary starting to come alive a little bit oh i i think his defense is great like i yeah they've really impressed me their um their pass rushes woken up a little bit they're getting to run their secondary is super technically sound like

they're they're playing really well i i kind of i kind of i think they're scary they are and i mean they're going to nip at jacksonville's heels here probably potentially after this especially if Lawrence sits this week, which is a high, I think there's a decent possibility that that happens. Houston could be right up on their heels after this. If Jacksonville were to lose, they'd be at eight and five. And then Houston would be at what? Eight and five, would they be eight and five, too?

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So then boom, all of a sudden, you're in a tie with games against them down the stretch. So this is, I don't know, it gets a little bit scary for Jacksonville because you can't, It's not like the NFC where you can fall back on. Well, like, ah, we'll be all right. We'll get in with the wild card.

Right. Wild card race is just as difficult as the division race. Arguably that your division is a little bit easier in a way than the wild card. Yep. All right. Steve, before we go and we do have to go, but any other final notes on week 13 that you want to get off your chest, I might have one, actually. laid on us

me whatever the green bay packers they're playing good football right now yep Jordan love all year he's really looked good in what I call seven on seven situations when he's playing teams that snuggle the rush passer and the chiefs

for whatever reason are one of those teams he looks really good the lines the week before like he's definitely turned a corner getting through progressions being decisive making stuff happen is time to throw come down. All that stuff is working in his favor.

I would love to see him again against a team that can get pressure on the quarterback because that's when he's falling apart this year. But for my, and that's not going to happen this week because he plays the Giants. But from my eyes, Jordan Love is playing at a very high level right now, and I think he's turned a corner. Those young weapons are starting to mature. They're

learning their roles within each other. I think Jaden Reed is a good volume guy. Watson, now, we're not sure with the hamstring for this week, but Watson, you know, the big play guy, Romeo, The profession guy. They even have some other speedsters like Dantavian Wicks and Samaritore, Tucker Kraft, the yak guy.

Like, they got a lot of really cool parts, really interesting. And it's cool to see a young QB grow with his young weapons. If they keep that crew together, and this was my contention in the preseason, the beginning of the year was like, they kind of have built this the right way. They got an offensive line that can pass protect, surrounded love with young weapons he can grow with. The goal was never to do it this year. But, man, coming down the stretch,

everyone's on notice. I don't think anyone wants to run into Green Bay right now, including the freaking Detroit Lions. Yeah. There's a very likely scenario. They actually host the Packers for a playoff game. So wild stuff here. And that's all working in tandem with their defense starting to gel and figure it out and come together.

Complementary football. If you don't keep in the field for 80 plays a game, they tend to play better. It's weird. Right. I mean, you're seeing that, hey, look what happens when to give Rashon Gary a little bit of rest in between possessions.

He rushes the pastor like a madman. And there's secondary who still is without, still playing without Jaira Alexander, who could be returning later, who probably will return later this year. Yeah. And he was bad when he's played. So, like,

I think with the new, to your point, the new defense, the way they're playing, I think Jair probably gets back on track as well. Yeah, but yeah, it's like Rush and Kenny Clark's coming alive.

And Princeton Smith has figured out how to work in space. It's just everything is kind of coming together for this team. And yeah, they're a, they're a horrifying team to stare down in the playoffs no matter who you are, because they are athletic and they match up well against almost any team in the upper tier of the playoffs right now. Yep. Bingo bingo. All right. Are we happy? I don't think, yeah.

And I don't think they have a hard schedule coming down the stretch either. I don't think it's that difficult. I think you're correct. I think they have two division games left, right? Bears and Vikings. They win both of those probably. Anyways. All right, that's going to do it for us.

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