Fantasy Football Daily - Dawand Jones, Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Charlie Jones | On the Clock! NFL Draft Podcast

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) and Josh Liskiewitz (@PFF_Josh) from @PFF dive into two Ohio State prospects, OT Dawand Jones and WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba, before also discussing Purdue WR Charlie Jones. The guys also talk some more about Oregon CB Christian Gonzalez. Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-fantasy-points --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoint.com. Top-level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room, with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Welcome in to another episode of On the Clock. I am your host, Brett Whitefield, and today we have another special guest. His name is Josh Liskiewicz from PFF. You can find them on Twitter at PFF underscore Josh. He's a good friend of mine.

Josh, how are you? I'm doing awesome. How are you today, Brett? I'm doing good. You know what's interesting, Josh? I always introduce my guests and I say, hey, I have a very special guest today. Somebody actually took the time to DM me the other day and say,

why do you call all of your guests special? And I'm just like, why? I wanted to respond with, why are you a cramogen? Why do you care? All of my guests are special because I, I'm a relationship, man. I develop relationships. You and I are good friends.

We talk about all the freaking time. It's kind of a shame. This is the first time we're getting you on the pod. We should have had you on TikTok a while ago. But anyways, you are special to me, Josh. I just want you to know that. I appreciate that. Did he take the time to tell you which ones were not special?

He didn't. He didn't. Thank God. Maybe you will after this episode, though. Oh, that doesn't vote well for me, but okay. So, Josh, we're just coming off of the combine here. I mean, before we get into the usual format of the show, any combine thoughts you have for me? In general, not that this is a huge surprise, considering how outrageous last year was,

but from a true depth athletic sense, I thought it was far less impressive than last year from a numbers-wise, especially looking at the skill position players. This running back class as a whole is pure football players is better. but it wasn't anywhere near as fast as last year's. Yeah, that's true. Obviously, not even close, even though it's a tiny, tiny class. You would have expected more speed. We didn't really get it.

And a quarterback class, too, I didn't think was near as explosive and special as we've come to kind of expect in recent combines. Yeah, it's weird. Like, we've been told for a while now, and as a guy who's literally dove into hundreds of these players so far, you know, the receiver class is deep, the running back class is deep, the cornerback class is deep, yet a lot of these guys didn't really put those athletic benchmarks that you're looking for out there to be considered, you know, high ceiling prospects. Some of them for sure did, and we'll get into one of those corners later and receiver actually. But, man, it's, it is interesting to see. I know, like, I think last year there were like 12 running backs that ran sub 4-4 or something crazy like that. There was like three yesterday.

Yep. in which the 40-time isn't everything for running back, but your point, your point, is true, though, the athleticism of these guys, it makes you wonder, did they change methods,

or did something happen? Because we've been trending up where each class gets more and more athletic, it seems like, and then this is kind of the first time in a while. I feel like we've taken that step back, but. Well,

to your point on speed and speed not matter, and I agree with that. Isaiah Pacheco ran sub 4-4 last year. 4-3-2. Yeah. But there weren't any of those random guys this year for the most part. No, the ones that did run fast were expected to run fast. But even they didn't run as fast as we expected.

Right. Devin A Kane was not sub 4-0. You know, we were expecting him to go 3-9 and he went 4-3-something. Yeah, yeah. All right, so the usual format on the show, as the listeners know, we discuss a guy that you're higher on than most. We discuss a guy you're lower on the most, and then we have you pound the table for a team player fit. Let's start with the guy that you're higher on the most.

This is Ohio State offensive tackle, DeWan Jones. Now, this must be hard for you, Josh, being a UFM alum here. You're going to, you know, tout an Ohio State player. I can't imagine what's going through your head right now, but hit me with it, man. Well, first off, right off the bat. I mean, it's been how many years? They haven't beaten us this decade, so. Not as hard as you might think.

Data back to Parcells, this guy is just planet theory. He's 6 to 8. Apparently he lost wingspan, which is unfortunate because he measured, what, 89 at Senior Bowl and he was 87 something yesterday. So hopefully he doesn't continue that trend. And by the beginning of the season, he's in the 70-something. That would be bad. But he's just so impossibly tough to get around.

you look at how he did in terms of his pass blocking, zero sacks allowed, zero hits allowed, just nine hurries. I mean, that's outstanding. You can't, you can't ask for much more than that. But when you're that big and you move as he does, he's not a super elite athlete, obviously. You're not inspecting that at 6-8, 380 pounds. But it just makes it so difficult for anyone to get around. I think he's just a plug-and-play starter. If I'm a team like Tennessee that has a lot of needs, and everyone's earmarked them for tackle, and maybe they'll sit there at 11 and take Dewan's teammate Paris Johnson,

that's fine. He's a good player. They need a lot of things, and they need it over a lot of years. I'm trading down as far as I can, trying to accumulate future picks, and I'm trying to grab a guy like DeWan Jones instead and the later first. That's the kind of approach I'm taking if I'm someone like that. Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

And Tennessee needs both tackle spots filled. So, I mean, this is a guy who obviously started two years at right tackle. You know what, though? Paris Johnson might not even make it to them anyway. So that might not even be. That's very true. You know, looking at Las Vegas, Carolina, Atlanta. All those teams are in the mix.

If Chicago pulls off a tradeback, They could be in the mix for a tackle. Honestly, what if Chicago can't pull off a tradeback? Sure. They could go with Skorowski or the hometown kid Skoronsky or Parrish Johnson, which then Tennessee is going to be picking from DeWan Jones or Broderick Jones. I agree. I really like that fit, actually.

The thing that impresses me about DeWan is for the size, the movement skills actually are pretty exceptional. It's kind of mesmerizing in a way because it's scary with his length, when he times that punch well and pass protection man I don't see anybody getting around him it's just so easy too right it looks like he's not even trying because he's just so naturally stronger than everybody but yeah I think

the natural comp is going to be like a Phil Lodholt out of Oklahoma obviously like a decade ago but I think he's I think he moves much better and Phil Lodholt had a nice career when he was healthy so I again I think this this kid's just a plug and play starting the right tackle. Yeah, I've seen some other,

I've seen Trent Brown as a comp for him, and Trent Brown's had a pretty successful career. You know, I think recently teams have been skittish on guys like this, but the size, it's almost like too big, is you hear that a lot. But with the recent success of Trent Brown plus Orlando Brown, I mean, there's some good evidence that this works. And I think DeWan has more movement skills than Orlando Brown did.

Well, And Landrybund was just big and strong, didn't really have the elite level movement skills that I think DeWan does for his size. So I think this is a very good player. I think this tackle class in general, Josh, is a little sneaky. I know it wasn't what last year's was with potentially three. Was it three tackles in the first six picks that went or whatever? Yes, yeah. I don't think it's necessarily that good. But I think all of these guys are pretty solid with limited deficiencies, whether that's Skoranski.

I know I'm probably a little higher on Paris than you are, but DeWan and then Broderick Jones, like there are four really good tackles at the top of this draft that can definitely help some teams. Yep, absolutely. Yep. All right, let's get into the guy your lower run. I really want to hear this too because I think, you know, we're both Lions fans in some ways. And I think this is a guy that a lot of Lions fans would like to see in Detroit. But before we get to that, I got to talk to you about our sponsor. which is Underdog Fantasy Football.

The 2022 NFL season is over, but the fantasy football season never stops an underdog fantasy. The easiest place to play fantasy football. Right now, you can draft an underdog's the Big Board tournament with $1 million in total prizes in 200K given to first place. If you think you know which incoming rookies will burst onto the scene in 2023,

now is your chance to draft them out of value, or maybe not because the Combine just ruined that for everyone. All you have to do is join the Big Board draft and draft your fantasy team, and that's it. And best ball, as you know, there are no waivers, there's no trades, and you get the best scores you're starting line up each week of the season. Whoever has the highest scores at the end of the season wins. Simple as that.

Just head to underdog fantasy.com, the app store or Google Play Store, sign up with the promo code, Fantasy Points, and that is Fantasy PTS, and you will get your first deposit doubled up to $100. If you sign up using our code, a Fantasy PTSD PTSD Underdog, you'll also get a Fantasy Point standard subscription for, just five bucks. That is underdog fantasy. Promocode fantasy PTS. And remember, new underdog users who sign up with our code fantasy points. We'll get a fantasy point subscription for just five bucks. All right. Bills are paid. Let's move on. So you are lower on Oregon Corner Christian Gonzalez

than most. I've had another guy on here who is higher on him than most. So I'm interested, which I don't know how that's possible. Most people have him as a top 10 guy. But, um, Hit me with it. What do you see with Christian Gonzalez that causes you a little pause? Yeah, it's the man coverage stuff, in particular press. That stuff really, really concerns me. He's one of those guys that clearly has the athleticism. It shows up on film. It showed up this past weekend at the combine. But when he's in position, he's not necessarily getting a job done. Way too many completions, in my opinion, completed into his coverage in general. but certainly when he's in man.

You look at his stats throughout the season. 66 targets against 40 receptions allowed. Like none of those other top guys are giving up 50% into their coverage. Just nine four-sing completions. That's a lot less than a guy like Witherspoon out of Illinois. And 504 yards allowed into his coverage too. So he's giving up some big plays as well. And, you know, that's something to me,

that just does not translate well in the NFL. We see time and time again, these guys come out to have just loads of athleticism, mid-four-threes, great agility, and when the ball's in the air, they're just not able to go get it. And speaking particular to Detroit, I think the most natural comp to him is possibly Jeffrey Akuta. And I don't think you necessarily want to double up on that guy. I don't think that guy just lives up to number three overall. Those are great points. When I watch Gonzalez, the first thing that sticks out to me is, for one,

he didn't get a, he's not a well-seasoned corner in Man. Oregon plays a lot of quarters. They play a lot of cover three. I think he fits better on his own team, Josh. And we know the Lions and other teams, you know, that are running those Blitz-heavy packages, they're going to leave their corners on an island a lot. And I just don't see him holding up.

The lack of ball production is actually scam. carry to me. When you look at all the other corners at the top of this draft, they have good, like, legitimately good ball production, and he just does not, for whatever reason. He had half the force in completions as Witherspoon and Porter and Deontay Banks and those guys. It just, that is concerning the production he allowed that you mentioned too. I didn't know that staff, but that's actually concerning because at the college level, there's literally no reason to target the alpha corner when you can just target the other guy. So why is he being targeted so much.

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, that is a concern to me. I didn't realize he had given up that much production. Well, and for anyone listening that wants to say, oh, he played in the Pact 12. They pass a lot. You know, you've got USC and all that. 103 yards allowed against Colorado. Ooh.

That's not great. I can't even tell you their quarterback off the top of my head, Josh. I don't have a clue. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I get why people are in on Gonzalez. The physical traits are there. It's, you know, man, it's tough because he does have the length and the speed and the recovery speed that you're looking for. But at the same time, you know, there's more polished players in this draft.

So why is he like seemingly the consensus CB1 when there's other guys that are, you know, more productive on the. ball. They've allowed less damage to their team in coverage. And they are almost equally as gifted. It's not like Witherspins a bad athlete. It's not like Porter's a bad athlete. Banks tested as an elite athlete, which we kind of figured what happened.

Shoot, even like end of the first round guys, Emmanuel Forbes, I know he's a string bean, but these guys are testing as elite athletes as well. So it's like, are you really getting that much of a bump from Gonzalez's athleticism versus the other guys to make it worth the jump in position there.

Yeah, considering where he's being talked, I just don't see how you think the value is there. I look at a guy like Porter who obviously tests a little bit slower, we kind of expected it. But with his length, you talk about recovery, that shows up on film, man. You can't throw over him because he's so long and he'll break it up. So he's getting those forced incompletions, even if he's, you know, playing trail or maybe slightly behind and having to catch back up. you're seeing that out of him, not out of Gonzalez.

And if he's, if he, excuse me, if he takes a misstep, I, I don't think there's a lot of positive film on him getting back in. I agree. The other thing, too, with Porter Jr., that I really like, I haven't had a chance to talk about him much on this pod yet, but he was, I mean, his dad played in the NFL, this guy was pretty much bred to play the NFL. I mean, from the,

day he was born his dad's been getting him ready for this for this spot and we've seen very similar success stories recently with with these guys coming in that have you know especially at position yeah especially that position there was that one draft where there was like six of them that had dads in the NFL that played the same position so yeah uh very very interesting stuff there on gonzalez um all right you have a player team fit you want to pound the table for this one was exciting to me i I don't think one of these, you actually have two players. You want to pound the table for it to this team.

I don't think one of these guys is going to make it. But that doesn't mean that the team in question can't go get them. And that is the Buffalo Bills going after either Ohio State wide receiver, Jeff, Jackson Smith, and Jigba, or Purdue wide receiver, Charlie Jones. Everyone listened and heard you say Buffalo. Immediately thought, oh, he's going to say Bijon. Big surprise. No, first off.

Those elite teams, Kansas City, Buffalo, obviously we're talking about. Cincinnati already has all the arms. It's a constant arms race. Get your quarterback the weapons he needs. And I think Buffalo really fell off down the stretch because they had digs, and that was kind of it. They don't have that consistent second target. They don't have that consistent chains mover. And, boy, I don't think you're going to find a better one than Jackson Smith and Jigba.

Just a fantastic route runner. Is he a super elite athlete? No, but I don't think he needs to be. I think you need that separator. That's, you know, everyone talks about that. That's what today's NFL is. And not every throw you on Josh Allen making into contested areas. That doesn't always end well.

So let's give him the blankie, so to speak, and Jackson Smith and Jigba. or assuming he doesn't make it, because off of his big combine, which I think is probably going to be the case, I love Charlie Jones out of Purdue, man. Maybe it's a little personal bias because I saw him go absolutely wild on a fantastic secondary against Michigan

in the Big Ten championship game. But when you see the way he runs routes, the way he catches every single ball, can take hits and. traffic can run to daylight. He's done really, really well on deep throws, contrary to popular belief. And then you see the speed he has, which I think probably is a little bit shocking. I don't know what his official was, but running in a low four-fours for a guy that does all he

does, if I'm Buffalo, I just take him in the second round. I don't worry about whatever projected value is. I think second round's fine because I think he's going to perform for that. Yeah, I agree. I mean, so going back to Jackson Smith and Jigba, I mean, he is the missing piece in that offense. Obviously, if they can somehow get him picking, what do they pick, 29th, Josh, is it? Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, if they can get him at 29, that's insane value.

I mean, they're even probably, if they like him, I would assume they're a candidate to go get him as well, because I don't know how, I don't think they'd have to get too far. But, yeah, Jackson Smith and Jigba offers them basically everything they didn't have last year. I mean, Diggs kind of was that guy for a while, but as he's getting older, I think he needs a volume reduction because he does get in these real cold moments where either he's getting bracketed or you can just see he's getting tired. And then Gabe Davis just hasn't developed into a more sophisticated receiver yet. He's still pretty much a deep threat only kind of guy at this point. Isaiah McKenzie is a gadget player Khalil Shakir is more of a vertical

slot weapon I wouldn't say he's he handles the short and intermediate stuff like JSN does JSN is basically an automatic I mean he's open all the time especially if you're going to have to play zone and too high against Josh because of the arm I mean you're just giving JSN a bunch of free windows to work into free releases off the line of scrimmage which is

where he's going to thrive and then he gives you some run after catchability So I love that call. Charlie Jones is definitely one of the most underrated receivers in this class. You mentioned, like, don't worry about perceived value and just take them in the second round. I couldn't agree more. Receiver, as we know, is a highly valuable position. In my scoring model that I scored my prospects with, receivers get a positional value bump.

Jones is one of them. I have a firm day two grade on him as well. Yeah, I love it. I think he gives them that vertical element from the slot that Shakir does. if they want to use him that way, but he's also a phenomenal route runner. You know, he's got exceptional ball skills as well, which, you know, could help with Josh because he does go through those stretches where he's, you know, lacking in the accuracy a little bit.

And then he has the run-after catch-up side. We saw that in the Big Ten. I mean, Jones had what? It was a record-setting season in the Big Ten this year, wasn't it? 110 receptions? Yeah, it's not like Purdue had a ton of other weapons, despite being this high-hard passing option or offense. It was him.

Yeah, and I think back to two years ago, you specifically were extremely high on Amman Rae St. Brown, who ended up going in the top of the fourth, but had a high second round grade on. And we kind of talked about that then with him. Like, these kind of receivers pretty high a hit rate when you can see the skill set. Like, does anyone now think Amman Raus St. Brown's not worth a second? Nope. Yeah. If you redraft that class, he goes in the first every time.

Of course he does. Of course he does. And apparently Charlie Jones is faster. So that's good to me. Sign me up. A little more vertical juice there. I definitely like it. So the one concern with him is he's a little bit of an older prospect.

I believe he's a sixth year senior. Not really a deal breaker for me at all. I loved Christian Watson last year. He was the same. Yeah. Yeah, right. Buffalo's in a wind now window. You're in a wind now window.

Yep. It's not like Houston's taking him, right? And if you look at the way Buffalo's landscape is playing out right now, whether this is JSN or Charlie Jones are talking about, they're in a bit of a cap situation. They have a lot of resources unnecessarily invested into the middle of the defense and positions that don't matter so much safety and linebacker specifically. They're going to have to make some hard decisions about personnel.

Are they going to be able to even resign Gabe Davis? So I mean, like they have to add weapons here regardless if, you know, it's just for this year or for years beyond. Because I don't see them paying Gabe David. I don't even think they can. I don't think there's a math equation that allows them. I'm sure they can they could maybe subtract from the rest of the roster and free up some cap space for them. But is that really what they want to do for kind of a one-trick pony at this point? I think they should really.

So, Josh, I've talked about this at nauseam on this podcast and my other one. But the way the bills maximize Josh's deficiencies and turn those into strengths was exceptional. And they did that by adding separators, guys who, you know, Cole Beasley in his prime, John Brown, Stefan Diggs. They need to get back to that. They need to get back to giving him these guys that can separate and make those throws easy for him. I think the more they do that, the less you'll see these cold streaks from him where he's just kind of all over the place. Well, they tried to add Cole Beasley in the middle of the season. season. It's definitely not prime Cole Beasley anymore. So that tells you how how desperate they are

for that kind of production. And this other point I want to make, too, you make a good point about the roster construction now and how they have issues under the cap. And, you know, they're going to have to let some guys go and figure out where to play others. Well, so some of that, especially when you're in a window window like they are, is finding ways to get production early out of your draft class, out of your young players. And I think you're going to get that from wide receivers, specifically that type of wide receiver. You can find your guards, which they need there.

You're going to get some production out of them. Running backs, which I'm not as gung-ho on them going to get a running back, but fine, go ahead and do it. I know obviously Singletary is one of their free agents. They're probably going to let walk. But, you know, that's the kind of way you got to develop now is, hey, we can't be just spending money on these positions. We know we can get rookie production out of.

Yeah, that's actually a fantastic point. Since this is a draft podcast, too, that makes perfect sense to talk about. Because, I mean, especially with the quarterback market right now, and Alan's in his second deal, I mean, what is he? He's making, what, 17.5% of the team's cap this year, and I think it goes up to over 20% in the following years. they absolutely need rookies and young players that can contribute on that rookie deal to make this thing work. The chiefs have been pretty successful doing that.

The bills have to replicate what the chiefs are doing. And receiver, there's not a position where players are coming into the league more ready to rock than wide receiver right now. The college game is just spitting these guys out. That's why every year you're seeing five, six, seven receivers go in the first round, then there'll be another 10 on day two taken. And these guys are ready to roll. I mean, it's pretty rare where you have a highly-totted receiver struggle as a rookie. He usually hits the ground running.

And usually when he does, it's because of injury, like in the case of James and Williams or even Christian Watson, who really took like about eight games to get going. It was because of that hamstring. For the most part, though, these guys are coming in and they are ready to perform. So that's a great point. I think the bills should really be targeting those positions. You know, guard was another good example of one you mentioned. But guard corner and receiver seems to be.

the easy ways to get better in the draft these days. Yeah, well, and specifically, too, when you're talking to wide receiver, what banner has Ohio State been able to hang the last couple of years? They're a wide receiver you. They hung that banner. Way to go. Good job, Buckeyes. Who get a wide receiver from Ohio State?

Yes. They are knocking on the door of Alabama right now saying, we want this title. We don't care about Natty's. We just want wide receiver you. And they got five more five stars lined up. count. Yep. They'll have two more in the draft next year, Josh. They'll have the guy next year.

The guy and then another guy who will contend for first round status as well. Absolutely. He should. Yep. All right. Well, Josh, I think that's going to do it. I was hoping DJ would drop his post-combine mock so we could talk about it, but he did not. Alas, I will let you leave on this note. Thanks for joining us, though. It was a pleasure. We got to get you on here more often. I'll probably hit you up like early April to get you back before the draft. Sounds good.

Yeah. And for those listening, you can find Josh on Twitter at PFF underscore Josh. He's been at PFF for what a decade now? Or darn close to it. Not quite. Not quite. But I think this is year eight. Your eight, cool.

A little bit about your background too. You're a O-line, D-Line reviewer mostly, right? That's kind of your specialty. Run game for sure. Yep. Run game. Cool. Yep.

In fact, I'm maybe doing a little bit of XFL after we talk. Oh, nice. Good times. Well, yeah, good times. We'll have fun with that. Thanks so much for listening, guys. I will be back tomorrow with a very special guest who may or may not also be from PFF. And with that, I am out.

Definitely special. Definitely special. Extra, extra special. Oh, come on. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform. And come join the roster at FantasyPoints.com.