Fantasy Football Daily - Dynasty Pre-Season News That MATTERS From Week 2

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

The Fantasy Points dynasty team dives deep into the news that matters from the second week of the NFL pre-season. So you don't have to, Rashee Rice or Xavier Worthy? What is Jaleel Mcghluaghin's role? What if the Vikings Don't air it out but run their backs into the ground instead? We will have ALL of the answers. Where To Find Us http://twitter.com/ElNostraThomas http://twitter.com/RyanJ_Heath Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ 2024 Dynasty Video Playlist - https://youtu.be/KthPmbCI0PA?si=wzNG-dm6vfPojE68 Age Curves Article By Ryan Heath - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/age-curves-when-nfl-players-break-out#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Thinking About Thinking Substack - https://jakobsanderson.substack.com/p/lets-think-about-thinking FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What? What? Why are you shaking your head? You're welcome. Oh, yes, Tuesday night. We're back. I'm back after just a couple of weeks of pure insanity in my life. The trip back from the Expo, which was great.

I'm very happy to have met so many wonderful people at the Fantasy Football Expo. If you've never been, it is a must go to a very, if you are a fantasy football fan or if you work in the space, uh, it's, it's a great time. However, let me tell you,

19 hours it took me to get home. All right. It's a two and a half hour flight from Toronto to Winnipeg. I still don't have any voice. And then it is a like half hour flight from Toronto to Cleveland. It took me 19 hours to get home. That part less worth it. But obvious,

like, Ryan and Jacob and Lucas covered for my fried behind last week. And then of course with the slow pitch finals for my men's team this weekend, I am as burnt out as it can get. And I am happy to be sitting here again to just talk football. And football, that matters. Yes, just like the title. This is week two preseason information.

That actually matters. There's a lot of smoke out there, but Ryan and I, we are going to hit on the stuff that matters. As is in the thumbnail, relax. Okay, there's a lot of information out there. There's a lot of big, bold takes, and it's time that we just relax. If you have not already, if you're watching over on X.com, on the live stream there, head over to YouTube.com backslash fantasy points.

Hit that subscribe button because we need our 10 bits like Dean Lindroth has mentioned. Bet you miss those 10 bits, Tommy Tips. Yes, I miss them dearly. Donut holes just don't hit the same. It's just not quite the same. Of course, I am your host

with the most time on his hands. I am Thomas. You can find me at L. Nostra Thomas. And my fun fact is I too now can chime in on the Duncan Donuts debate as my second trip ever into the U.S. took me to Dunkin' Donuts for a much-needed iced coffee, and I can tell you it was divine.

It was divine. Also tried Waterburger. It was okay. It was okay. I can say as a Canadian, not impressed. Wasn't impressed. We don't really have Waterburger up in the North. Northeast. So I wish I could chime in on this one, but absolutely can't. But yeah, I guess we found out

once and for all that Canadians just drink shitty coffee because they come over here south of the border and suddenly it, yeah, Dunkin' Donuts is like the most amazing coffee you've ever tasted. Yeah, I don't, I just, I feel bad for you guys. Like, what else are you missing out on that we privileged Americans just take for granted? I would love to hear. Well, uh, Rex says you weren't missing anything on Duncan and Waterberger. I was missing out on the camaraderie of the conversation. So I felt like that my, my,

like nine Canadian dollars, uh, were hard spent on a six, uh, US dollar ice coffee. And I felt like, uh, it was,

it was worth it for sure. But again, like I said, Ken Ohio, much love and appreciate you, uh, for, for hosting everything.

It was truly, truly, truly a really great time. Of course, joining me to, day seeing as how Jacob is off lawyering and Lucas is in Hawaii. I don't know. If you ask me,

my priority would be this podcast not being in beautiful Hawaii. So we're going to have to talk to we're going to have to talk to Lucas here for skipping out. But it's myself. It's Ryan Heath at Ryan J. Ander underscore Heath. Ryan, there's so much that there can almost be too much to digest. So I think I have it. figured out for today on how we're going to do this. I think we are going to run through some bullet

point information and then boil it down to our bigger topics. If you have questions, see one question from Domo Iverson, who is in the chat early. So shout out to you, we're definitely going to get to that. We have a question from the Discord chat as well. If you guys have questions, let us know, and we'll get to those as best we can. Peter says we all know Jacob's laptop is dead. I mean, could be. Could be. Star Lord's dad. Shout out to you.

You know, cosmic entity. That is correct. Ryan, Timiho coffee is bad. It is bad. When I was a kid going on like field trips to Canada and stuff, that was like the thing. Like, oh, it's going to be so cool.

We're going to get to try Tim Hortons. But it's just funny years later learning that actually every Canadian hates Tim Hortons. It's been bad. that are good. Tim Horton's got bought by the same company that owns Burger King. So technically now McDonald's actually has the coffee that was being used at Tim Horton's back in the day. So now Tim Horton's coffee is basically just at McDonald's.

So that's... Wait, is that why McDonald's coffee is actually not terrible? Yeah. Yeah, bro. That's actually... I didn't know this was... I did not know this was the next layer of this debate. I was close to saying it a couple weeks ago.

Like, honestly, if you're going to go get... get a coffee from whatever fast food place, McDonald's is like not going to be significantly worse than anywhere else. It's got it's going to be about the same or better. Right. That's why. That's right. It was like a big deal, big deal here in Canada that they were messing with the coffee recipes. Huge deal. Obviously, before we dive into everything, if you're not subscribed, you should be and you can use promo code score more to get 10% off of all of your subscriptions. We obviously have. links down below promo code to the website to all of our podcasts to the article featured and the

video playlist featured here in the description brian forts at a-o dog walk time come with we're going to be right there with you as always sean says i say the next five questions the loser has to buy jacob the accessories to keep his damn laptop charged that could be good that could be good you missed my five for five win last week too oh yeah you would have yeah you didn't mention that there were so many things that you missed out on i did i noticed that that was the one thing you didn't say anything about what i am i am proud of you for that i was i was watching i was watching for the victory i am proud of you but it is not it's no mystery at all that the one time i'm gone the game ends three to two but you guys need help

so three is easily my high score so i i was that and above my average i I think you need to take that up with Mr. Lucas out there in Hawaii. I'm going to call that one his fault. I was in top form. Yeah, it was rough. It was a rough watch, to be honest with you. But hey, no five to five this week, but Jago will be back with that next week.

Next week, by the way, not going to want to miss Chris Wecht, Fantasy Points projection connoisseur. We are going to have Chris in to break down the projections that matter for us in Dynasty and the Proctsie. players that we are looking at. I'm ready to dive in. If you're ready to dive in, Ryan, quick break.

When we come back, it is go time on the information that matters. Sit tight. Snap up ancestry DNA's lowest price ever in our incredible cyber sale. With 50% off ancestry DNA kits, it's the perfect time to help a loved one unwrap the past. And with our latest update, they'll discover their family origins like never before. with even more precise regions and new and exclusive features. Their best gift, our lowest price. 50% off Ancestry DNA only until December 2nd.

Visit Ancestry.ca for more details. Terms apply. Okay, I want to point out early that I've noticed in these kickoffs, it is running backs. On these kick returns, it seems to be running backs getting the route, which gives opportunity for some backs to make a roster that might not be able. able to and you might ask Tom, why do you bring this up? Cody Schrader not only played with Brock Purdy and every, I don't know why Brock Purdy was playing to begin with, but he was the starting back in that game. He was also returning kicks. He was one of my favorite post-rooky draft waiver wire ads just in case he did get on the field. Look, Jordan Mason is a guy that got

steamed up was healthy all last year. They just didn't want to give him the ball. I don't feel like they're very high on him as it is. Eli Mitchell's already doing Eli Mitchell things and missing time and stubbing his toe and being out suspiciously for four weeks. And Garendo also battling injury. Shrader

to me still has a shot. But I just wanted to point out so far, I have noticed that has been running back. So if you have these deep shot running backs and they're getting on the field, that could definitely be why. That also why I do want to mention guys like we're going to talk about

Linner with Sione Vacchi in Detroit. I can't say his name for shit. He's also out there returning kicks. So these are guys that you can stash in your lineups, or in your lineups, in your taxi squads. And they can end up mattering at the end. Sean Jefferson said, Garando cleared to practice again, yeah, but for how long?

Like, we want these guys, right? I was excited about Garando also. But guys like Schrader getting the opportunity to be on a roster because they're choosing running backs for these returns, to me is more notable. It used to be receivers, right? You would hope get to stay on the roster because they could do some returning

and things like that on the kick. Now it kind of feels like it's running back. So we'll see if that's a trend. And any other weird trends you've noticed in week two, that was my big weird, very weird trend. No other trends, but kind of on that one, I did want to say a little bit, a little piece and maybe issue a slight retraction.

or an apology, one might even say. Oh, I like these. So to anybody who read my Scott Fishbowl strategy piece, kind of everything that I was doing in there and recommending people do was, hey, draft a lot of wide receivers. They're the ones who have mostly been the ones on kick returns over the past few years. They're the ones that have had all the kick return production. Just cast your net wide and draft a bunch of wide receivers in Scott Fishbowl. And that was kind of what I built. my entire thesis off of. And I'm going to be completely honest. I posted that article.

A day later, Brett Whitefield gets in my DMs and he's like, hey, just so you know, I'm pretty sure it's going to be mostly running backs this year. Like all of these kickoff plays are run plays, essentially, right? That's just kind of how they line up and how it looks. And I'm like, okay, thanks. Well, thanks, Brett. I am never going to publish an article that makes any claim about football without you looking at first now.

So shout out Brett Whitefield. And yeah, I apologize to everyone read that that I did not correct that on time. I mean, it's hard to know, right? Like, I mean, this could change two weeks from now. We don't actually have any idea. But I just found I just found it interesting could be more need for these backs being on rosters. So we definitely like that. Got a couple more quick ones.

Daniel Jones definitely sucks confirmed. He's so bad. He's so brutally bad. But Neighbors is still going to see a gazillion targets. Like I just think he's going to be, I'm starting to get a feeling that neighbors might be a little underwhelming, right? He had 30 snaps, 17 routes run.

He still got six targets and one carry. I did watch the quarterback school. JTO Sullivan wasn't as pleased with some of the neighbors stuff. But, I mean, he is a rookie. And he's just winning on talent alone right now, beating Stingley, just immediately off the line and getting a piss.

poor throw. That's kind of what's going to be expected. So with neighbors, let's say he's just one insane target hog, but kind of ends up like Devante Adams last year, who was an insane target hog, but there was just a ton wanting, like leaving us wanting more. Low end wide receiver one numbers, I feel like for this team is still big for neighbors. Like even if they switch to a Drew Locke and he's getting eight to 10 targets a game, you're not disappointed by why receiver 13 neighbors yeah i you're not disappointed in dynasty certainly that's that is not cratering his value if that's the rookie year performance i i think your worst case with malik neighbors is kind of the rookie season that zay flowers just had where yeah he's definitely going to be getting the volume i

would project a much higher target share than even zay flowers had last year but yeah it's going to be on all the easy motion micky mouse stuff he's going to rack up a bunch of p p p p p peter are fantasy points. And Daniel Jones, yeah, he's terrible. I agree. But his entire play style under Brian Dayball has been the low average depth of target stuff. He's right in bottom three in that stat, both years he's been under Dayball. And that plays exactly into what we know neighbors can do to score fantasy points this year, which is catch a bunch of short throws and get frack up a bunch a yards after the catch. So yeah, I mean, it's stuff you want to see, expect to see. He's still one of the biggest values in redraft. And yeah, I'm not like scared of having him in Dynasty

or anything like that. Right. Sean Jefferson's lock will be QB by week six. Not sure if that's better or worse, but yeah, I don't even know that moves the needle much. Yeah. I mean, lock is more of the free thrower in my opinion down the field. So I mean, maybe that could be good for it as well. The other thing, the other couple of quick notes on Giants wide receivers that I wanted to note, Wando Robinson had 20 snaps ran 15 routes, but only one target, whereas Darius Slaten got three targets on his eight routes run. So not totally sure how the rest of the Giants wide receivers are going to shake out. Still not completely convinced that it's going to matter. Thought Theo Johnson was was actually pretty fine.

A couple other quick notes here. Vidal was left for dead last week And now Vidal is reportedly above Spiller Which not surprising at all Spiller is kind of awful So we are kind of a little bit on the way back with Vidal Knicks looked improved though again Kind of against some backups

And No matter who the quarterback is in Pittsburgh It's going to be bad Justin Fields looks terrible He tried to get picked off twice in one play and it just didn't happen. Missed a wide open receiver that looked like he jumped at an Olympic level to try to catch this ball and he just airmailed it.

Russ also looks terrible. I don't know if you're Iuk, how you look at that and you're like, yeah, baby, that's the one. That's the spot. So I think they're pretty terrible. No matter what, Minchu named the starter.

I'd love to talk about that here in a little bit. And then my last quick note before I pass it off to Ryan is, A. Chan lined up as a wide receiver on four of his 13 snaps. That to me, in the preseason, we hear a lot of running backs going to line up outside. We want to use them more like a wide receiver. We might actually get it. So that's just even more excitement for dolphins. You can be their wide receiver three with this Odell on the Will Fuller mystery injury

retirement plan because no one has seen them. So those are my quick notes from preseason two. We have some long notes that we're going to get to after. But you have quick notes from the preseason stuff that kind of stuck out to you after you've done some diving here. I want to talk about that I need to circle back into the A chance stuff. Yes, let's do it. Let's go.

That's why I set it up. Yeah, more than just a quick note on. So look, yeah, as you kind of said that we hear every season, oh, we're like, we've probably overdrafted a running. Any team that overdrafted a running back in April, you can book it that for the next five months, you're going to hear out of their camp, out of all the beats, oh yeah, they're going to split him out wide a bunch. They're going to use him in the passing game, like all over the field. It'll be totally, he's a weapon.

It'll be totally good. We heard this about Jemir Gibbs, and he honestly underperformed in terms of what you might have expected for Target share last year, right? This has happened with a long, long line of running backs. Yeah. But if it were ever to be real, it would be, number one, with the most efficient rookie running back of all time in Devon A-chan. Seems like decent enough reason to get him involved literally any way you can. A-chan, I should have sent you the tweet before this, but recent fantasy points data tweet, A-chan led all running backs, I believe, in slot rate last year, which kind of went underreported.

makes some sort of sense, right? There's not, has not been a whole lot behind Hill and Waddle in Miami, continues to be the case today. So I think there's a possibility that, yeah, HN gets actual meaningful snaps either from the slot or out wide at different points in the season. That is another path to him getting touches. And then I was saying this to Scott Barrett,

literally as he was questioning me and interrogating me, and interrogating me, I might say, about why Rahim Moster was the only one playing with the starters during the Dolphins first drive. And I said to him, I say, look, every time McDaniel is asked about A. Chan and Mostert, he won't really tell you like what the packing order is or what the worker that's going to be. But every time when he gets to Achan, he says stuff like, yeah, we really want to get him touches, get him involved in other areas as many areas as we can. We want to expand his role however we can.

And that to me is coded McDaniel speak of, yeah, we are going to use him on splitting him out wide. Yeah. All the trick plays near the goal line. So, yeah, I am, I'm bullish on A-Chane after this week. I know for about five minutes there, it was looking Jover based on the first drive snap counts but yeah i just have felt even more vindicated on a chan after this well star lord's dad the cosmic entity himself wants to know if there's any worry with wright cutting into the

snap shares with hn and mostard i think that there could be towards the end of the year if somebody gets nicked up or i should say when somebody gets nicked up it's the NFL and maybe they'll start doing the same thing they even started to do with jeff wilson at the end of the year where they were up and they used Jeff Wilson to hammer out the clock at the end of the game didn't even want to give Achan those touches so maybe with him but you can't be worried

about the rookie siphoning that many snaps I feel like if you're drafting Achan because you are already under the impression he's look we know it's a committee like you're just banking on the explosive outrageous ability of Achan here it's just the matter of oh my god what if one day he maybe gets a bunch of snaps so if if moster goes down

Wright's gonna see the field probably a little bit more but I think until then I think it's the two of them kind of running the the offense I'm not that always this always gets brought up and I don't think I've ever gotten like a satisfactory answer to me to what what is jalen Wright do that A Chan doesn't just kind of do better like in every way like What is the skill that Wright brings to the table that gets him on the field over Devon A Chan at any point? Like, yeah, I understand. He's a scheme fit, but yeah, that doesn't matter until some. Guess who else is a scheme fit?

Devon A. Chan and Rahim Mostert. Right. The smart teams, draft players that fit their scheme. That doesn't mean that he's going to leapfrog guys on the depth chart. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's going to take, I think it's going to take an injury for sure for him to to be good. I think he's going to have to stand out in an A-chan like way for him to be really relevant this year. Now next year, all bets are off. All bets are off for next year.

Because A. Chan and right if right. Yeah, totally fine. Dynasty asset to have like totally fine. That's all that. I have no issues with any of that stuff. Yeah, it's just just the idea that he should be the reason that you should be scared of A. Chan or most served or whatever. Yeah, it just has never made sense to me. We have another comment from the chat before we diving in, which by the way, stay active all night because this show is completely for all of you, as it is every single week. But MTM revolts is I'm firmly in my seat to see if the Tennessee top three offense with Smith was working off Henry.

Well, I can tell you, like, you don't have to be in your seat for this. It was, uh, absolutely. When you have one of the best running backs in the game, a well above average quarterback, like Ryan Tannehill right now should be starting for at least three teams in this league and he's not signed. And then of course you have one of the best wide receivers in the NFL and AJ Brown

at your disposal. You better be able to put up play. And we're talking about Derek Henry in his prime. He is prime. So yes. I can confidently tell you that their top three offense with Arthur Smith. A lot to do.

A lot to do with Derek Henry and AJ Brown. I'm just flashing back to the EPA debates over Derek Henry versus Ryan Dan Hill those years. Oh my God. That that was peak like RV doesn't matter versus like R.B. Derek Henry is the best player ever debate on the internet. That was amazing.

He was always the exception of the rule to the rule to me. Like, Arby's don't matter. That one does. That one does without him. And then again, AJ Brown, the play action offense that they had. Brian Tannenhill's strength, by the way. Like, it was a perfect, it was a perfect storm. 100%, 100%.

Imagine what that Falcons offense could have been last year. Sean Ever said, Ray Davis, I believe, is better than James Cook. Now, I was very pro Ray Davis on this podcast during the draft, a little bit more so than my co-hosts. I think he's very good. I don't think he's good enough to overtake James Cook. but I think he's annoying enough to irritate us with James Cook. So definitely worth a stash.

Good enough to do what Latavius Marie did last year and just like box him out of the red zone entirely along with Josh Allen. That kind of has been my expectation for Ray Davis. Probably this is a Scott Barrett, take him stealing, I think, but probably an underrated best ball pick. Maybe a little overrated in Dynasty where just it's hard to imagine the three down Belcal upside. but yeah I see him having a role for sure yeah and we ought to remember this is the death the death of the three like the three down bel cow era like it's it truly is dying in every way let's get to I want to talk about one big point before we get a break and then really dive into these we've been answering questions here for the last little bit I want to talk about

Minch you, what's that? I said getting distracted by the chat. I know, but hey, the chat, we are for the people. There's only two of us here tonight. I feel like we have a little bit more time to talk to chat. And if you're listening to this on the podcast and you're thinking, man, I'd really like to get in on this chat. You can do that by being here on YouTube live with us. We answer that.

We also want to get you into the Discord chat where we post before the shows. to get comments and questions if you don't have time to make it in on time. You can also reach out to us with your questions individually and we will also try to get those on the show. Remember, no fans, no show. We do it for you.

I want to go about Minchu and AOC because I was team AOC leading the way the Raiders have chosen Minchu and we were in the Dynasty Points chat today going back and forth with some of the guys in there. And I said that Minchu and AOC were basically trying to play football like the South Park kids were in the Little League World Series episode where none of them wanted to play anymore.

So they just tried to play bad enough to lose. That's how I felt this quarterback battle went. It was so bad. they weren't playing so equally terribly that it wouldn't surprise me if both of them played eight games and then one of them just gets the nod for the extra they play the third guy. This is this is going to be rough for that offense

and Zemir White's ADP is moving up and I got to tell you I wasn't a fan of seeing the rotation of the running backs with Vegas. So if this team is bad and has that kind of weird deployment of running backs, which I don't think any of us were expecting. When you sit, just to be clear, when you say weird deployment of running backs, you mean Zemir White is losing work to Alexander Madison.

Yeah. I just want to underscore that. And that's where we're at right now. Yeah. And Lobby was getting work in. It just playing them in the, Zemir in the second half was not something that I saw coming either. So that is something that we could tolerate when Zemir White was still a sleeper, right?

11th, 12th round, Zemir White, that we could tolerate. Round 9. Zemir White, round 8, current prices, we can't have that. We can't have that at all. So this is bad.

To me, bad. If the offense is slow and bad, I'm not willing to cool off on Devante Adams being like a good wide receiver four in Dynasty this year. I'm not willing to back off of that yet. Very happy. happy with Bauer's red zone usage though with this team. So that's kind of my,

my Vegas takeaway. I think Bauer still has some sign of life, but everything else starting to look more and more bleak with just how confidently the Raiders made their quarterback decision after how horrendously bad both quarterbacks have been. Thoughts on the Raiders. On Adams, I would still just say, like, his ceiling this year is Michael Pittman, essentially. And like Michael Pittman, like in scare quotes, derogatory. Like, but that's fine. I think he can have like a usable wide receiver two level fantasy season. But I just don't see.

Like if you're trying to get like a mercenary receiver that's kind of older and cheaper in dynasty, why would you not go for the one that has legitimate top six, top 12 upside? I just don't see how Adams gets there at all this year. I get it with Cooper Cup. I get it even with an Amari Cooper, who's a little more. Calvin Ridley. I can squint a little bit with Calvin Ridley or DeAndre Hopkins. But yeah, I don't, I just can't get there with Devante Adams with what we think this

offense is going to look like. We saw what it looked like with AOC last year. It was kind of a ho-hum, wide receiver two and fantasy type of season for Adams. Michael Pittman had the same exact type of ho-hum season with Gardner Minshu. There is more target competition because of Bowers, essentially, than on either of those teams last year. Yeah, I just don't see where any of the Adams' enthusiasm comes from. I can't talk myself into it at all.

And I know there are sharp people like yourself, Tom, and like other people at fantasy points that are in on Adams, just from, I think, a projection standpoint, but yeah, I just can't get there. Maybe that's like style for me, where I'm not as much of like, I'm going to see exactly how this guy projects and then have my opinion on him.

I'm much more of, I think Jacob calls this like archetype-based drafting or whatever. That's kind of more what I subscribe to. And yet Adams is just not an archetype I like ever. Yeah, he is a floor play, it feels like, at this stage with what they have and maybe that's a little sad. That's why I said, Neighbors is going to have the Adams-like volume

with maybe a little bit more upside as a more explosive type player. And apparently Jacoby Myers playing out of his mind best he's ever played in a camp at all. So there is still that as well. Also thought it was interesting, Trey Tucker, right ran eight routes, got two targets.

I thought that was kind of interesting as well. but white is not like white and madison both got targets neither of them recorded a target Madison played three snaps Samir white played seven Madison ran a route on every snap he was in on neither of them saw a target so a weird weird like I said very strange running back rotation Zemar white did get the red zone the two red zone snaps so out of him and Madison so far it looks like he is the he's the red zone guy but i hate to say it but bowers might be like the only upside play on the raiders

this year i don't know um not looking not looking great so far but nothing to panic over yet at the same time however we will take our second break now and when we come back we have a little bit more of a deep dive than a casual conversation on worthy and rice the patriots wide receivers because Jacob isn't here to go off on a 45-minute-long tangent of hope and a couple other topics you're going to want to sit tight for. We'll be right back. We got to talk about the Chiefs Wide Receivers, Ryan, because Twitter, you guys, look,

I think we just have to jump right into it. I don't know how to do it any other way than to just jump right into. to it. Worthy was, there was a false start. Okay. We can be impressed with the worthy throw where we see the image that worthy beat three wide receivers or DBSs down the field and track this ball and he

caught it. It was great. He was wide open. Can we just play with a little bit of context? I just want to read off a couple of things here that I have about these cheese wide receivers because it got to me this week. GTA Rice Rishi Rice was the number one on the field for the chiefs right he had the first read target on third and eight got the first down he had the first read on design target on the whip route to the outside after the third and eight then he immediately went back to him on a Travis Kelsey like like 12 yard hitch option route so it looks like the answer to if Kelsey is. you know, getting breaks.

Rice is now in that role. Worthy has some work to do, man. I don't know if this is the next Tyree Kill like people are expecting, but to me, he looks like he is playing in the McCall-Hardman role, which I said would kind of be what it looked like. Three for 65 and one, okay, six targets. Let's talk about all those targets.

He rerouted himself on a drag route in zone coverage and took himself out of the play for Mahomes on the drag route. He had this design swing screen, which was okay, didn't really break through the contact. We can talk about him taking himself out of the play on the end zone target from Mahones where he stayed to the sideline, pinned himself, and the DB completely cut him off. if he has to learn how to at least come back to the ball from the DB. He just gave up on that play. Whether Mahomes was throwing it away or not is debatable, but it looked like he was still trying to hit him. We had the other deep play down the left side where Worthy did not stack up the DB

and give Mahomes anywhere to go with that ball. And then we had the reverse. And Ryan, what was one of the things I talked about Worthy struggling to do is playing through contact. He got that reverse. And this is to me what separates him even from James and Williams. When James and Williams gets the reverse, you're not touching him. And when he gets hit, he's not putting the ball on the ground. Right now, worthy so far, one carry, one incidence of this man being tackled and that ball was not secured whatsoever. Running through contact, problem for worthy.

We're seeing it in some of his redirection routes. We saw it. And we did see it on the carry. Now, Talk about the play, right? This is the play that bothered me. We have it. We see a clear false start. Lions DB's pointing, stopping, giving him a free half second. They gave worthy a three step release free off the line. Now, if you're watching, listen to this on the podcast,

I'm showing this clip over and over. It's such a clear false start where he's taking a step and a half. forward. Then the D-Lyman goes over because they see worthy move. Then the Chiefs get a free play on encroachment. All of the Lions DPs are pointing at worthy.

And they give him that free of a... Yeah, no wonder. No shit. He beats defensive backs clean like that. There was just some context in those wide open plays. Then we can talk about the Carson Wentz. Touchdown pass. Looked awesome. Yeah, it was a rubrout. With no over the

top safety help within, I think they were inside the, the 25, maybe they were closer to the 30, kind of expect those types of plays, some backups in there on the back end, you get a little rub, bro. That's the type of play we expect. But we're not getting 17 of those. You know what I mean? So the stat line of three for 65 and one feels about, it feels about right, even without Hollywood here right now.

When Hollywood is in, this offense is still going to look different. to me, this is so far and away, Rice, who was consistently targeted, played the wide receiver one role. I don't think it's going to end up being close. And out of wide receivers, Rice with no suspension and everyone healthy, leads this wide receiver group and targets by 2030 at this point is really what I see. I feel like Worthy is going to have a role and that role will slowly expand as we know Andy Reid does with rookies. Is anything I just said, Ryan, out of pocket? No, I don't think so. Yeah, there's a few directions we can go here.

We'll start with the worthy play. I just want to say before I saw the play and I was like listening to you go on about it, I'm like, ah, it was probably like some cheap motion or something that Thomas is getting all worked up about. But no, when I saw that, you are absolutely right. That is hilarious. That is the play that went viral that is making everybody freak out about. Xavier Worthy.

Maybe like just side note here, I look, I'll speak from the perspective of somebody that it, in terms of like X's and O's and just hardcore like football knowledge, I am, I am nowhere close to the smartest guy on this show on Twitter anywhere, right, at this company, any of that, right? I'm a numbers guy, of course, right? Right. I would say if you are not incredibly adept at watching a play and breaking it down and understanding exactly what's going on. And I don't mean like you played football in high school.

I mean like you have done this consistently as a serious hobby or for a living in some way, then I think the worst pre-season type of takeaway you can have is watching the highlight on Twitter that goes viral. and writing that wave, right? Right. Because you, I don't know. I just, I get like the same vibe as when somebody, like,

can't tell the difference, but this is a horrible example. Can't tell the difference between like a mean and a median, right? Yeah. And then go on to give like their detailed statistical take, right? That's kind of what this is. And it's hard to tell that you're doing it, right? Like we trust ourselves and our.

brains and what we see and what we think most of the time. But it's very easy to fall into these pitfalls if you're at all under-informed on the thing you're looking at. So, right. Yeah, I would, yeah, props to you there, Thomas, for right, for educating all of us. Well, I know sometimes Ryan doesn't believe me when my rants really get going because he thinks I'm just straw manning arguing with myself because I spend too much time in my own head at home as I do this, but I mean, I just think we have to understand expectations.

Ryan Ford says Rice will lead in targets, but we will want worthy. And I'm fairly confident that I don't see 16 points per game in this rule. I mean, I don't either, but do we need 16 points per game to be okay with having worthy on a No, no, no, no. But in terms of worthy is going to be the one that we want. Worthy is now being drafted over Rice. And I think if that 16 point per game role exists, I think it is Rice's role. We've seen it.

We've seen him in that role. And we talked in the DMs beforehand. I swear my voice is going to correct itself eventually. So excuse all the early pubescent squeaks here into the microphone. I'm doing my best. You should talk with a fake deep voice. It'll go away. But we talked beforehand when we said the ADOT stuff with Rice,

him being a screen merchant, is kind of, like, it's not right. It's not a real narrative. When he became a full-time player, his role completely changed. Yeah, absolutely. I had a pretty detailed rebuttal to this kind of narrative in my age curve's piece. But, yeah, essentially, yes, Rashi Rice had a lot of low A-DOT stuff last year, especially early in the season.

But even after he became a full-time player, he was the one seeing all of those close to the line of scrimmage targets. But, I mean, a few things to consider here, right? It's not that he could only do those, right? Like, he was still top 15 in all our efficiency stats. If you're removing screens, if you're filtering for out wide, he was still the most efficient receiver on the chiefs on plays of 10 or more yards downfield. There's no reason to either in the data or in like watch the game nerd to believe that

Ricky Wrights can't get downfield and do normal. wide receiver stuff, right? I have just never accepted this argument. He's still athletic as well, right? It's not like he tested like he's a slow, can't separate Keon Coleman like wide receiver, which by the way, Keon Coleman's separating is painful to watch him try right now.

I just don't know if he doesn't get it or he's just got like that big learning curve, but his separation is not. The only question is, is it going to matter if he's going to play every Yeah. And I would lean in Dynasty especially. I would lean toward,

yeah, it's going to matter. I want, I want good players. I don't care as much about the role. But if we're throwing shots in redraft where he's in the double digit rounds or whatever, that's fine.

Yeah. I can get behind that sort of. I agree. I agree. I just wanted to get that in there. Keon Coleman, not separating. Who would have thought?

That was kind of, you know, these big body wide receivers in the NFL are just, um, just not sought after like, used to be. Don't forget the bills moved back with Casey and let them take worthy. Yeah, again,

but again, this worthy stuff for me, he's fun, he's very explosive, he's exciting, uh, he's, I don't think he's my type of wide receiver.

So we'll see. I don't, I want to pose this to you, though, uh, because, uh, someone,

Sean brought it up in the chat. Uh, what, because this was at a point of contention on the Twitter machine this week. Are you taking Xavier worthy or lad McConkey? Because that I, had been glad for most of the offseason.

And from like a redraft perspective, I'm changing my mind a little bit just as we see the preseason usage. But I mean, again, is this me falling into the Kamani by doll trap, right? Where just because a player is not like on my screen, on my Twitter feed, making insane plays right now, am I letting that affect my analysis

or my prior take on them when maybe it shouldn't, when there, maybe there isn't additional information. That's a good question. Let me answer your question with a question. Worthy's role and production is going to be that of, let's say, a quote-unquote part-time player. Let's, like, he's not going to be the lead receiver in his routes, targets, et cetera.

Ladd McConkey's going to be a part-time player in that, I don't think this dude can stay healthy at any level. And also that team might not throw the ball more than 225 times. So if both players are going to be considered part-time due to production, which do you want? Do you want the PPR machine or do you want the big play guy at the end of your lineup? I think that's to me where that question comes to between the two of them because I'm not expecting full workloads and full seasons from start to finish. from either of them and I was Ladd overworthy the entire time. I think I'll go worthy over Ladd at this point because I think if I want that long shot

part time route participation type player and target share type player that could be more than his current role. I think I want worthy. I think Ladd stuck in his role. I think that's just his role for now because it's it's hard to say because we haven't seen it but I can tell you that I think we know what we're going to see out of the Chargers overall and I don't know if Lad's going to have enough I think I want if it's like my sixth to seventh wide receiver I think I want the big play so I from like a redraft perspective I agree with

you but I think in Dynasty I'm all especially because yeah the this is in Dynasty, even if you're going to start with the premise, okay, they're both going to be part-time players for the first half of the season, then I don't care about what their production is in the first half of the season, right? Ultimately, I want the guy whose profile I believe in more. Okay. Because that that's going to be the guy at the end of the season, who is gaining value, who I can move forward with all my team, right? So I'm still, I would still lean Ladd in Dynasty. I don't think that's going to be a popular take at this point in time.

But I mean, look, guys, we've had this exact debate a lot on this program. I just prefer that just going back to the college profile that Lad could, I can point to one thing in his profile, which is incredible per out production, right? Yes. So obviously, you can say, okay, Ryan, like you're, you're begging the question here a little that you're just automatically winning the argument because you're making it pro-rout when that's the entire issue with Ladd-McConkie. But I would rather take the guy, I think, can be efficient on a per-row basis and make

the bet that as his rookie season goes on, especially in a receiving core that I don't think has above replacement level talent outside of Josh Palmer, who it is, I think Josh Palmer is a good receiver. I don't think he is stopping any great receiver in, in, anyway, right? So I'm still going lad in Dynasty. I think it's very easy to over, especially this time of year again, very easy to over fixate on what are the roles going to look like in week one. And that's a question worth asking, right, even from a redraft perspective, maybe more so, what are the role is going to look like in week one? And preseason can be helpful and predictive

in figuring that out. But if week one through week four is not really a part of the value that is baked into a player in Dynasty, which I would argue is kind of currently the case with worthy because of what people think will happen with Marquis Brown being injured, but is not at all the case with your average rookie wide receiver that didn't go like high round one, then, yeah, I just don't care that much. I don't want to hear bad things about him during the preseason, but if it's kind of a shrug of the shoulders,

like he's not on the field, whatever. Yeah, I don't think it should affect you that much. So I think that there is something to be genuinely concerned about with McConkey in terms of his role expanding. I was the, I think the biggest on Brandon Rice is a favorite on this show in the draft process for late round guys. We kept talking about a late round guys. it was Rice and it was McCaffrey from which, by the way,

Luke McCaffrey, insane catch this last weekend. Looks better than guys like Dotson right now. That other wide receiver spot, this is pour one out for Johan Dotson. If you're still believing, I want to know, reach out to me at El Nostra Thomas and let me know what it is you're engaging in recreationally that leads you still in on Dotson.

I'd like some and I'd like to experience that. But with, Ladd McConkey, he is not playing in 12 personnel at all, but Josh Palmer and Rice played outside. And Darius Davis had started, according to Nathan Yonke in that. But he has played one, Ladd McConkey has played 100% of the snaps in 11 personnel.

We expected that. No snaps, not one in 12th. That to me is a problem. That to me is a problem. Brandon Rice starting and playing in 12 personnel and not McConkey at all on this run insane run first, second, third, fourth, and fifth first team. That to me is where I draw my concern. I think Worthy can play in 12 and 11 and get those snaps in there, especially does the big play design ones like with Carson Wentz with the rub route. I don't think we're getting that with with McConkey, which is why to me the upside is better.

I think we're already seeing very specifically that they drafted McConkey for this is your job. This is what you're playing. McConkey is banged up all the time. But yes, he has 100% of the routes in 11 personnel this week. So to me, very clear.

I would just, I'd push back a little bit more. Yeah, everything you just said, yes, that's why I like Xavier Worthy over Ladd-McConkey in redraft, where the early season production in their rookie season matters more because that's like half of the value proposition in redraft, right?

But if you don't think that Ladd McConkey can ever develop and beat out DJ Chark on the outside, then you never should have had him anywhere within sniffing distance at all of Xavier Worthy as a prospect, right? So, like, has your take on him as a player changed from two months ago? or it just challenge you to think, okay, if that, if that's the case, then fair. If you're just seeing different parts of his profile and different lights now. I expected, I expected him to get the opportunity this early because their receivers are so bad to be able to put himself in the position to jump some of these guys already. Late round wide receiver Brandon Rice was not the guy I expected to leapfrog fellow rookie to not get a single snap.

in that situation that we might need him to. So to me, my stance on the player has changed, not because I think his profile has changed or anything else has changed, but specifically just that he hasn't been able to do what I was expecting him to be able to do to a fellow rookie. Yeah, I know.

There's something, I know, Mike. That's what I'm laughing at. Thomas, don't look back, Thomas. You have a ghost moving up. ball by her head. I know. That's my cat. He's doing her thing. She's the start of the show. Let me ask you this, because we're actually often

polar opposites on safety to high end. If Ladd-McConkie stat line read something like, you know, 95 targets, 67 receptions, 8303 yards and 6 touchdowns, we'd consider that a pretty big win. In my opinion.

That's just Jacoby Myers. So to me, that doesn't excite me. Jacoby Myers doesn't excite me. That profile doesn't excite me. I don't. It just does not. To me, that's, that's kind of what I see happening for him

with the offense, the way that it's built out. I think I would, I think I would just rather the, and that's without, I don't see a ton of explosion weeks out of him unless it's a game where Herbert throws him two plus touchdowns. I think he,

worthy can, can do this production any week on this KC team. So for me, that to me is kind of the final straw for me. I can tell you right now that if Ladd goes out and puts up like 800 yards, six touchdowns or so, like maybe half the year, he's exclusively an 11 personnel, not that many total routes. And that's the production he has. I promise you,

I will be banging the drum for him next off season. Okay. Like, yeah, I understand archetype-wise maybe that doesn't excite us a ton. But that would be very, very solid production for a rookie wide receiver. I understand, like, in fantasy, we kind of, like, we don't like the slot guys for whatever reason. That is, like, icky to us.

But, yeah, I don't know. If he is playing outside at any point this year and produces, I will consider that a major win. Because you would say the same thing about Rishi Rice with that logic, right? it's oh well he was kind of only playing he wasn't a full-time player he wasn't playing in 12 personnel like he was coming in and getting targeted heavily on like the short like all the run stuff like it yeah that's i don't know you you just described her she writes but it would take but it would take a 16 point per game back half for lad to change the rhetoric the conversation

about himself the way that's what it took for Rice. And yet Rice is still been distressed, but granted it's because he wanted to play Real Life Grand Theft Auto and less about his actual production on the field, but still questions about Rice's ability at this point, even though he had the Alman Ross St. Brown-Minie-esque back half of the season last year.

So Lad would need that. So for me, I just think it's a matter of floor versus upside. And maybe Brian Ford ends up right and Worthy's the guy we end up wanting in Kansas City anyway in a year or two. So I think upside to me is going to win this. And I'm sorry, but you can't convince me there's an upside argument of the Greg Roman in the building. No, I agree. There's not an upside argument with Greg Roman in the building this year.

Yes. Again, I prefer worthy in redraft. I agree. I know. I know. Upside in year one is better for worthy. But literally all this takes is this Chargers offense being a disaster for the count them up, folks the third fourth year in a row or whatever for this team be a total disaster and for roman

and arbaugh to be out of the building next year and suddenly a past first head coach comes in and we can make all the same arguments about how lad's role projects incredibly well into a higher volume environment right so i yeah i don't know i think we i yeah as i've been repeating this whole show i think especially in the preseason before week one from a dynasty lens i think we get way too focused on here and now. Okay. Understood. We're going to revisit this. I think that's going to be a good one to revisit.

We'll bookmark it. I see both sides. I see both sides. But I think this is, again, this is just an upside thing. I think that we're saying, and we're talking about a guy, a couple of spots, different. I'm glad this conversation has actually reached this kind of like path that we're on.

We have one more break. We're going to do one. one more. This Kansas City one went a little bit farther than I was expecting, but that's okay. We're allowed side tangents, even though Jacob isn't here. Yeah, someone had to make the argument go for 30 minutes when Jacob was here. Okay, I have big shoes to fill. You did a more than just admirable. Oh, my God. I can't speak right now. It's been a long couple weeks here, folks. Last break, when we come back, we're going to hit these last points and get out of here. You dominate

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points, P, O, I, N, T, S, you get $25 into your FFPC account if you have never signed up. That's free money. Use it. Let them know we sent you. Let them know we said hello. At my F, my FPC.com. All right, I got a couple more notes from a couple more players. Let's talk about it before we get to scuba Steve's question. I don't know if who the backup running back for the Giants is actually ever going to matter.

Devin Singletary went bananas this last week. And it's the second preseason game. He might get 80% of the snaps until something bad happens or the wheels fall right off. 29 snaps. He only had one less snap than neighbors this week. Because he had 30. Gray had four snaps. Now on those routes, he had three routes and was targeted on all three of those routes.

So it felt like when Singletary did come out of the game, there was like a plan. There was like a reason. He just may not come off the field. Now Tyrone Tracy was back today practicing, no boot or anything like that, which is amazing. but I don't I don't it may not matter it just may it just may be single Terry until the wheels absolutely fall off bell cow usage in the preseason didn't see coming but here he comes here comes single Terry so I don't know if the hot debate for what backup giants running back is going to matter until he gets hurt that to me is just a lock in bell cow at this point

we're talking about probably locked in 12 to 13 point per game bel cow type running back with maybe a couple weeks where he scores a few more touchdowns than normal on this terrible offense. Excited for that. I'm excited maybe with like a qualifier. I was I was tweeting about this before the show. Sorry, Thomas, doing a redraft take. At least it's not best ball, right? So redraft.

I'm dealing with it. Redraft take. By the way, we did not say the word best ball on the show a single time last week when you weren't here. I thought. Jacob and I both specifically. specifically avoided it like multiple times, I think, the format that shall not be named. Right.

All out the window today. Yes, obviously. So, yes, in a sense, I'm excited for Singletary because I think in redraft where if you followed any of my content or any of my takes, Jonathan Brooks is one of the single most appealing values, upside picks in all redraft sites right now, right anywhere you're drafting jonathan brooks is probably going too late and redraft at the moment right obviously the problem with that is you need a bridge to brooks you need to bridge that production until he's up to speed whenever it ends up being week five week six week eight you need a running back that has safely projectable volume in the early part of the season and i think devon singletary

fits that better than almost anyone else we've seen him be deployed as a belcow by multiple teams in the recent past. The Texans did it with them in the second half of the year once they were finally done with Damien Pierce. We've seen the bills do it when they got sick and tired of Zach Moss, including during the playoffs for multiple years. So, yeah, I think we can have like a six to eight game total Belkow stretch out of Devin Singletary this year. Is it that exciting outside of like the very specifically I'm making a team build where I need cheap early running back production?

No, not really on this offense. but yeah, he's going to be at the top of all my expected fantasy points per game percentage charts probably all year and not be a needle mover in fantasy. Yeah, he's a Joe Mixen of it. Even that would be optimistic, I guess. But yeah, or maybe the Alexander Madison of this season. Right. The, the Mike Davis, if you would, projected volume back that traps everyone every year.

There's always one. He's better than all those guys, by the way. He is. I don't want to be. I think Singletar is better than those guys we just named. Yeah, we are just poking fun at the projected volume running backs. Because, again, they get us every year. But, I mean, I call him the cockroach for a reason.

He just sticks around. He's just productive enough. I think he can have a decent enough run like he did last year that really helped people. He's a zero R.B darling, darling. Not going to win you leagues. Not going to lose you them, in my opinion. Star Lord's dad said Singletary equals Hubbard. Yeah, I think that's a pretty.

And it's a pretty good one. Sean said what happened to Vidal is he no longer a thing. We touched on that briefly to kick it off. If you miss that, you can rewind it. I can do a brief rundown. Last week he was dead. This week he's ahead of spiller and likely to make the 53. So he's gone from he's going to get cut to he's at the back end of the 53.

If he's on the 53, he matters. Put him on your taxi, especially for a team that again runs the ball eight gazillion, eight gajillion times. That's what they're going to do. Let's talk about what else did I have on here. I'm going to butcher this name for the second time tonight. Cioni Vaki, someone and some like spell.

I couldn't tell you. The pronunciation for that in the chat. I guess we've not watched any tape. But I don't know. Right. I've not watched the game itself to get the audio for that name yet. I've just been looking through the data. Uh, South Harmon representing what's up.

Much love to those guys, man. If you're not, if you're not subbed over at South Harmon, what are you doing? Uh, they posted a beautiful video of the Expo and all the people that went, uh, to the shit house,

which is where I was staying for the weekend. And when I tell you, it is nonstop. We were up talking football and movie theme songs and you name it. Three, four in the morning is just a phenomenal time. Um, not just go to the expo, make sure you're saying hello

Kevin in South Han. The shit house sounds like something out of an Arifasan article. Like, that's where my brain went, okay? I don't know if anyone in the chat knows what I. Ask me about my wieners.

The only thing I can think about when it comes to the shit school. Let's talk about Patriots wide receivers because this is probably the last one I really think we need to get into and I think we actually do need to get into it because

I think they looked like shit I know that the whole argument for you guys in the off season was well CJ Strau did with Houston and no one knew these wide receivers were any good I am going to go

and put my career on a limb and say this is not going to be a repeat of the Houston situation you were saying that it would be like Noah Brown being, I think Noah Brown, if he's on the Patriots, would be the best wide receiver on the Patriots. Okay, no, right now.

That is wild. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. Now, Pop Douglas didn't play. So when Drake May came in, Pop Douglas was already out. I just think that just supplants like he is what it is. But right now it looks like Baker is legitimately fighting to be Tyquan Thornton's backup,

which is really rough. And, uh, sorry, and Polk is fighting with what Osborne. in Pop Douglas? So report out of Foxborough today is that Polk has won his starting role, essentially, right? What is his starting role? As in he's going to start. He's going to play over KJ. Osborne.

I don't know if I'm breaking news here. That is breaking news to me. I mean, this probably should have been expected. Like, I don't know. If you can't beat Osborne, then you really have no hope. I just don't see I don't think that changes my stance that much so I have a couple notes

from this game we didn't even talk about Vaki I wanted to but now we moved on to the pages where to see your second distracted by the chat yeah I think Drake May thinks Javon Baker is a lot better than he should Javon Baker was running some

truly god awful routes he looked slow to me beyond slow he again was having trouble stacking backup defensive back running himself through the sidelines just really bad is the catch that he made he jumped into it for no reason

on a completely dotted pass into his chest where he just felt like needing to jump it and catch it with his chest looked really weird to me the post route was was fine to me like even the throw didn't impress me that much because like we expect that for May like stepping up and throwing a deep ball

to an open post route like shenai twain style didn't didn't impress me that much you know what i mean i have watched lamar jackson have those throws and and whiff on them for like years so these guys with big arms that take shots down field you expect it i was i got i'm sorry i got stop you what what does shenaya twain style mean maybe i'm too young that don't impress me much oh oh okay sorry come on i said that that was perfect i was not that set up was perfect right young tell me that okay I'm not out of my mind

I'm not out of mind chat's gonna be with me here but it was the other deep routes to me that concerned me the straight out yeah see South Harmon said fail Ryan that was a fail

it was the outside right routes to me he took himself out of the play he gave me nowhere to go with the ball and May's throw to me was

predetermined. He missed the Austin Hooper over route. If he would have just waited another couple half seconds would have seen it wide open. To me, it was no, Baker's running a deep route here. I've got the look that I want. I'm just going to throw it there anyway. To me, that's not great.

I just thought he looked slow, ran the wrong routes, got absolutely mortified when he saw, I think he was number 17, come near him when May I think was expecting the slant route. And Baker kind of stopped, because I think he thought he was running a little hitched there, hit him in the hands, turned in and looked, immediately made a business decision.

Tough catch, should have caught it. So if he's going to be soft on contact, take himself out of the play and run poor routes while not being like standout explosive against backups, I don't see it. Maybe Polk still has the hope and he's still it. but he looked a little shifting but I didn't see anything remotely like wowie so far in the preseason so I don't

I think May looks fine like his arm looks alive 10% scramble rate is probably something they don't actually want him to do but he has to that offensive line is god awful and then even on the QB keeper that you tweeted Jacob saying let's talk about that one I wish I had that play up let's talk about that

even his QB keeper down at the goal line shouldn't have happened there were two like massive holds and there's holds on every play. There's not close line pulling the guy in a circle, bad hold. Plus, when he kept it, number 24 crashed inside, didn't even give a second look at any,

didn't even move either. He didn't get engaged in the play. He just stood there. And then the end just stood there staring in line towards the center, not even at the running back. So my favorite quarterback scouting is done by JTO Sullivan over at the quarterback school. And he made a comment that I thought was really important.

He said, I don't even know what the read is here. That it just felt like May wanted to play some hero ball. A starting defense doesn't let that happen. Like they're not just staring aimlessly into the backfield. Well, also not engaging in the play. So yeah, he can do it. I don't even know if that was the right read. So to me, just shaky, that offense shaky.

and it's getting to a point where it might be like Ramandre is a flex option and like maybe Polk becomes a flex option but overall I don't see it I don't see it right now not right now with with the Pat's offense to have the CJ Stroud hope that was just pushing these guys to favorites thinking that we would get like the second incarnation of of the Texans offense I don't see it. Tell me why you're wrong. So I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and tell you like, yeah, I totally. Actually, you know what? No, first before I get into this, I need to defend myself because the chat has been roasting me for the last three minutes while you've been talking.

I am on, I'm on about nine and a half hours of sleep over the last two days, guys. Come on. I'm sorry, I miss the Shania Twain reference. I'll never do that again because I will just be brutally accosted. and accused of not knowing country music. So yeah. Anyways. Christian,

Christian Heath says, I'm convinced Ryan knows nothing outside of fantasy football stats. Star Lord's dad says, come on, Ryan. South Harmon said that was a softball pitch. Yeah. I mean,

someone said that I don't think you have enough space in your brain for country music references with all the data. Like, it's getting, it's getting it's getting nasty in here so no I whatever we're going to have to get a video of you we're going to have to get a video of

you like singing Shaniah Twain in your house just to beat these allegations and just a post on Twitter you know what I don't know if I post that on Twitter but maybe maybe in the discord that could be something we talk about right exclusive discord content Ryan karaokeing Shania Twain

to beat allegations make sure you get in the Discord, guys. Right. Please. Anyways, back to the Patriots. No, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that what we have seen really just in that preseason game because there was not much to evaluate with any of these guys in the first

one. No, I'm not looking at that and saying, oh, my God, like this is obviously the next CJ Stroud. But that is, it was the thesis in that, like, we're pattern matching to, okay, these are players just cost-wise who are being treated like the Texans were last year, that doesn't mean it's going to be exactly like the Texans, or even that it needs to be for them, for it to be a good take that they are kind of priced at rock bottom, right? And I would say, look, yeah, look, Javon Baker definitely nowhere close to what we would want to see, nowhere close to perfect. But

I will say what I saw from Drake May specifically, just his ability to assess. escape the pocket. Even honestly, if he was maybe a little too eager to do it at times where he was just running the hell out of there, I acknowledge all of that. But look, for this offense to work, that's what he's going to have to do. This is going to be the worst offensive line in the league leading up to the game. It was going very viral on Patriots Twitter about how Brissette and May in the midweek scrimmages had been sacked like nine times each or something ridiculous. like that. So yeah, no, I am expecting this offensive line to be terrible. And kind of the only way that there's production here is for me to play hero ball. I think he is capable of doing that at

least at points. So I'm totally fine still when all the Patriots guys at their ADPs. Like, you just absolutely brutalized Javon Baker and that's fine. But ultimately, I don't, I don't think this Patriots offense rests on the shoulders of Javon Baker. at all, right? So if it rests on anyone's shoulders, it rests on Mays. And I thought everything I saw out of May was, it was decent to great. So no real other notes there. Yeah, to me, a lot of it was just some unsettling foot stuff. I think there was some really bad spacing. Again, if you haven't watched the QB school on this, you should. JT. Ollivan does the best work in my opinion. We're talking about some of the spacing. Oh, the like off platform.

stuff is not good. No, I agree. Yeah. And some of the spacing, some spacings and the predetermining of the deep balls to me. I'm not sure if they just said like, look, go out there and throw this and get the rep in. But some of the predetermined stuff wasn't great. May did make a comment early in Camp saying Douglas looked uncoverable, especially with Quickouts and underneath. I've been saying all along that I think Douglas is the best receiver on the team. And I think that will be true for fantasy as well. I think he's going to be the guy.

I just don't know how good that's going to be. this offensive line is truly god awful. So what we're going to see, I just, I do not see it. I think Knicks looked okay, but I think Knicks looked, um,

kind of like how you expect from like a Sean Payton quarterback. Like this dude's getting 16 points per game. Like it's just going to be what it ends up happening. He's going to like run enough and throw enough touchdowns in the Sean Payton offense. Let's let's talk about, um, Jalil actually real quick, if you don't mind. Oh my God, goodness.

Yeah, this is another good point. Van Pell outside zone with Mondrey, top 10 RB money is what I like. That was another thing. I said we don't know what the offensive play calling is actually going to be like and how good it's going to be. If the spacing and stuff like that is a trend that's going to continue, not great. We talked about a guy that hadn't really called plays in a very long time, long, I think 2008.

I think it was the last time he called a play in the game. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I think that's what my research led me to. We're not sure. We don't know. We don't know how that offense is going to continue to look. It's got to get. It's got to continue to get better. But I do like Mondre in this.

To me, the Ramandre stuff's also not going to matter if the team is really bad. It is constantly, right? That would be my only. Mondre was that good with Mack Jones and that team was God-awful and down bad. Last time Mondray was healthy. Let's not forget that. That team, when Montre had his breakout year, was not like, this wasn't a stellar offense.

That was the year the pets went like nine and eight or whatever, right? Like that, it wasn't like an amazing offense, but it was someone calm-ed- Hard carried in 2022. Yeah. There's 69 receptions. That's happening again with Belichick out of the building. It's the receiving work. I don't think RB7 is in the future for Andre this year, but I still think he's going to be a very

good upper-tier RB2 in this office. offense because let's face it. Gibson is so terrible. They're running him. They're running an inside. He was dog shit. He was so bad. Like get,

um, get Harrison there. Like get anyone else. No. Don't get Kevin Harris in there, please. He looked better than Gibson. He was Gibson so bad.

He looks so bad. Let's talk about Jalil real quick. When you look at the snaps in that offense for that game, I had the tweet bookmarked for this conversation because I'm hashtag prepared. First quarter snap counts for running backs out of 16 plays per Nathan Yonke. Javante Williams 9, Jaliel 7. In the projections chat that we have, you made a couple comments about the Darren Sproul's type role on this team.

To me, that's enough to make Javante annoying and also Jaliel leaving more to be desired. so I'm kind of putting the pause on my hype for Jaliel. I don't know what this offense is going to be with him. I'm not worried about Pyrine at this point. I think he's cooked. But rotational, rotational part-time somewhat pass catcher back plus needing insane efficiency,

I think I'm selling. I think I'm selling the high upside range of outcomes for Jalil if I can. Thoughts? So look, I wrote a thread that when was that this morning? It's been a blur today, guys. I had a thread out this morning talking about basically the depth of the satellite running back. So for those of you that have been playing fantasy for a few years, you might remember back in the days of like 2017 through 2019 or so.

And honestly, even before then, 2015, 2016, you could, especially in PPR formats, you could get what I lovingly refer to as a PPR scam type of RB2, where this is a running back who pretty much exclusively plays on third downs and in the passing game gets maybe a couple carries a game, but really this is the James White role, right? And that was a role where at least a few guys every season were productive enough in fantasy football to matter, right? We had our Tariq Cohen that one year. We had Chris Thompson being like the RB 14 randomly that year, right?

This is something that used to happen in the NFL. It really hasn't over the last few years. The only running backs who have averaged more than 40 receiving yards per game in any single season since 2019 are Alvin Camara, Austin Eckler, and Christian McCaffrey, right? And that kind of goes to what's happening too, right? Because that 2017 running back class was so incredible and now they are aging out. Yes, target chairs at the running back position are just down across the league. And also teams aren't trying to copy what Alvin Camara and what Christian McCaffrey and even like what James White and Danny Woodhead were doing back in the day, right? because that that's no longer like the in vogue sexy offense thing right yeah that like the NFL kind of goes

through these cycles of the really you i guess you can give a lot of the credit here to sean and to tom Brady right basically for originally popularizing this you get all of the incredible receiving backs in that 2017 draft class yeah suddenly you've got teams feeding chris thompson seven or eight targets a game right but we don't see it anymore. But with all of that said, I think if anyone does it this year, if anyone is like the PPR scam type of RB2, I think it's DeWille McLaughlin in this Sean Payton. Okay.

He would be the one to still do it, right? I mean, Sean Payton's, it's kind of crazy. Right. Like, if you're looking at any sort of like running back receiving efficiency, it's like, oh, why is Samajai P. Ryan at the top of the running back? back yards per outrun or any stat, right? Why does he have, why does Samajai P. Ryan have the, like, the most targets in the two-minute drill of any running back, right?

It's Sean Payton. He's still doing what he did back when he had Drew Brees, right? And Alvin Camara and Darren's roles and that whole line of guys. Do I think he would love Joliel McLaughlin to be in that role? Yeah, I do think he, that's his intention. I think that's what the Broncos want to do. that's what their reputable beat writers are saying is that McLaughlin is going to be in that type of role. Now, is it fair to say, well, Julelea McLaughlin has not really ever been productive as a receiver,

either during his rookie year or in college? That's also fair. Like, I hear you there. But explosive player guy you can get 40 late. Like in redraft, he goes after all the handcuffs, right? This is at least a guy who you're going to see. his week one roll and figure out pretty immediately whether it's worth anything or whether you can cut him for a waiver wire ad, right? You're not going to be like, oh, well, maybe I should keep

Zach Charbonnet on the end of my bench in redraft in week one instead of adding whoever the best the top waiver ad is, right? That's not like a dilemma you're going to be in if you're taking McLaughlin in like a redraft context. In a dynasty context, yeah, sure, fair. Like there are more linear pads to getting cheap RB2 production. Ezekiel Elliott is sitting right there. I did exactly that in a startup earlier today. I took Ezekiel Elliott over Julele McLaughlin for that exact reason because I needed a cheap RB2 and it was seen pretty clear to me that Elliott was just a better bet for that this year.

So yeah, I think it's specific scenarios. I think Julian McLaughlin is a great pick. I love him as like your final round end of bench running. back in a redraft league. But yeah, maybe the dynasty upside has been a little bit overstated. I don't know that it's been that overstated, though. I think we all kind of understand we're just playing whackamol with the Sean Payton running back.

Yeah, just trying to pick up whichever ones we think could fall into the role. And ultimately, maybe none of them actually matter. Yeah, I agree. Someone said, I've been hearing estimate could take over this back field at the end of the season, Broncos are out of playoff contention. I think estimate looked bad. uh his past pro looked shaky at best he did fumble absolutely they did give him the ball right back so it's not like they were like you fumbled and put him in the dog house they actually did

the opposite where he fumbled and they gave him the ball uh immediately thereafter when when they could so i i think he just looks fine i think he's i think estimate is shot for shot javante's backup right I don't think he has some sneaky roll. I don't think he's a rotational drive type guy. I think he is just legitimately his backup. So maybe that that's still probably worth holding on to, but I haven't, I haven't seen it.

I haven't seen anything special out of him. Christian Heath wants to know no love for doubtle. He's just another guy who's fine. I can talk about this. Now, if I, if I'm going to guess, if I'm going to guess there's a running back in Dallas that I

wanted Zeke at the goal line and everything outside of that. Not to mention, Zique was even still capable of New England last year of catching passes and and doing well enough in the past game where I still think at Zique. And I think there's a bigger threat to a veteran getting cut and signing in Dallas than Dowdell is a threat to Zieg Elliott right now from everything that I know. But go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say,

and you kind of laid out a couple of the important points. But yeah, I have had this argument with Scott Barrett. I prefer Zeke just because in Dallas, I do not expect this to be an effective running game, right? I don't think we're under any illusions that this is how the offense is going to succeed is the other run game, just based on the personnel, right? So I know a while ago it was going around the, maybe from the athletic that Rico Dowdall is expected to lead the team in rushing yards. I don't actually care at all who leads the Cowboys in rushing yards this year. That's not the role I want. I want the guy that is going to be in at the goal line.

Because look, that is very clearly going to be Ezekiel Elliott. I'm pretty confident in saying that they played Tony Pollard at the goal line over Rico Dada last year. And Tony Pollard was by almost every metric, the worst goal line running back in the league last year, right? So I think it's very clearly going to be Zeke in those high-libered situations. Yeah, he was averaging like five and a half targets per game. something down the stretch with remandre out in new england last year think he can still take on that role too when the cowboys are playing catch up and it's it's like a four minute drill and

dac is playing hero ball and it has no one open because cd's triple covered and needs to check down to zeke he's getting all of those so yeah i am clearly preferring ezekiel elliot uh in yeah i agree i agree uh yeah that to me that that's right i I don't care who leads the cowboys and rushing yards. Why would I care? Why do I care who has 600 rushing yards versus 400? What does that do for me in fantasy football? Why do I care?

400, 400 rushing yards, but like eight touchdowns and 45 receptions. Now we're talking. Yeah, we take that. Yeah. We take those. Yeah. Now, now we're absolutely talking. Respect Ray in the chat.

Hey, shout out, respect Ray, man. Many leagues with Ray. good fantasy player right there shout out to you man over on X you get yourself over to that YouTube hit that hit that subscribe button Ray we got you baby I think that's gonna do it

where we still made it to an hour and a half and did not expect an hour and a half Ryan but it's not going to be two hours damn it Dynasty man so much fun right now there is so much to talk about I'm glad you and I got to mix it up we don't always get to mix it up oh my God I'm lying to you we have to have to do the question.

We have to do scuba C's question. I almost forgot. Starless Dad, you guys are great. I'm glad to sign it for NFL premium. Look forward to the knowledge during the NFL season. Need to show the wife that time spent gathering NFL info will benefit her end a year. Ooh,

I like how that sounds. I do like how that sounds. Let's get to that question. I did promise we were going to get to it. I was almost a truly dreadful host and lying to our Discord subscribers. I can't believe. I almost did that. So from Scuba Steve,

serious question, who do we think ADP gold is right now due to injury causing their stock to drop? Chubb, Hollywood, Lloyd, Pierce, Salt, Leggett, and McCarthy, etc. To me, easy answer, it's McCarthy. We're already buying. I'm already trying to ship out Tua's

for McCarthy pluses everywhere that I can. Purdy's for McCarthy pluses everywhere that I can. To me, it's just exploitable. So go out and do that and move, move two quarterbacks, move to a, and a, and a, Geno, if you have that quarterback depth to just slap McCarthy on your IR and get your pluses. Anyone else for you, run? I, looking at this list, no one, like Marathon Lloyd, sure, I would, like, I'm buying the dip on March on Lloyd, I suppose. I still believe in the talent and the profile. I think maybe

the best answer to this question outside of JJ McCarthy, though, is J.K. Dobbins, right? So, yeah, he's currently priced as if his career is just over. And that's definitely possible. Like I'm, I'm, I'm by no means going to give you a coffin and take that J.K. Dobbins is still an NFL level running back. But I mean, we're going to find out this year, right? If, if Dobbins, and look, I'll, I'll say this too. A lot of the whispers are that they want to feed J.K. Dobbins. That's what I've been kind of hearing. So I really like Dobbins in a dynasty context where you massively benefit from a potential value increase, right? If he goes out at any point this season and looks still like an NFL running back,

he's still only 25 years old. This is a player that's going to have dynasty value if he can recover this year, right? So I like that leverage in dynasty. And in redraft, kind of, again, this is another one of those players where if week one rolls around and JK Dobbins is out snapping Gus Edwards, then it's wheels up, right? And if, and if it's, he has two snaps and looks absolutely slow and horrible, okay, then you're Jaliel McLaughlin, Jaliel McLaughlin in him and cutting him for a waiver guy, right? I like the guys where we're going to get a lot of information in week one from a redraft perspective, because that is when you want to be working the waiver wire. And even in dynasty, not, not that roster space is as much of a concern there, but

Yeah, very important to be paying attention to the waiver wire early in the season. Yeah. Revolta says beware the trade's offering JK after good games. So does that ever work in Dynasty? Does it do you, like honestly, we get it. Player has a good game. You throw them up on the up on the. We know you want to get rid of him, brother.

We know. Okay. You're not doing it after the first game, right? Okay. Just to be clear, like he's getting through a month or so. They do it all the time. We see it. Okay.

We see it. And we know. and we know that it's coming. There are, look, I know it's fun to, like, post a, like, yesterday's price isn't today's price. I hate to tell you that 98% of the time, yesterday's price is, in fact, today's price, or you're not getting a deal done. But we get it. Sam Darnold went on the block in every fucking league, uh, when McCarthy went down.

And I can tell you that in all of my leagues, I saw one deal get done. One. And it was today. So we get it. Sometimes yesterday's price is, in fact, still yesterday's goddamn price. It's just a victory lap. That's all it is. It's never like a serious, I want to trade this guy.

You're logging into Twitter.com and you're victory laughing an injury, except you're doing it in your sleeper chat. That's what that means. And I do it. I'm not going to lie. And just to expose the thought process there. I think that's kind of what that is. It's look how smart I am, guys. I think it's more patronizing when they're like, did I do that right?

It's like, you know what you did. You know what you did. All right. Now you're just, that's like double humble bragging, you know, strutting your stuff when you add a little jab in there with it. Ryan, I think that's it. I think we covered everything that we thought mattered as of now. I mean, obviously Jane Daniels, he's the starter. Kind of assumed he was going to be the starter.

there's some other kind of like bigger stuff, but you're going to have eight gazillion outlets and a ton of content coming from us this week, kind of highlight some of the more intricate stuff to us. This was the kind of the more important stuff for Dynasty for what we saw from week two. So there it is, Ryan Heath.

Find him at Ryan J. underscore Heath. I, myself, and Thomas Tibble. You can find me at El Nostra Thomas. We love every single one of you guys. Hit that subscribe if you have. And if you're listening on the podcast, you want to interact with us, feel free to reach out via DM,

feel free to hop on the YouTube stream and get your chat in there live. Again, we couldn't do the show without each and every one of you. Next week, Chris Wecht, and the other boys will be back. Cannot wait, going to be a great time. One last time, this was a fucking penalty.

Can't believe that wasn't called. Until next week, remember that clear eyes and full hearts can never lose your best days. They're always spent tilting. good night everybody what what why you're shaking your head

you're welcome