Fantasy Football Daily - Early Free Agency Reaction | Take Talk Podcast

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Steve O'Rourke (@callmesteveo7) is back from vacation, and he's ready to discuss the early wave of free agency with Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) on Take Talk 47! Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoint.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Hello everyone and welcome into the Take Talk podcast. I'm Stephen O'Rourke and as always I'm with my co-host, Brett Whitefield. And Brett, it's good to be back. Good to have you back, sir. Yes, it was a lovely vacation that I went on.

I cannot recommend Portugal enough to have. So it was Portugal? Huh? So it was Portugal you were in? Yes. We debated internally if it was Iceland or Portugal. Yes, it was Portugal. And we kind of, we popped around a little bit.

We went northern part and then we went to an archipelago, a little island group that's off the coast. And then we went to Lisbon, did about three days in each spot. And it was amazing. I loved every second of it. The people there are awesome. The food there is even better. And it just like, I love cities that are walkable. And that's just all that it is there.

It's just wake up and just go wander. And you'll find something cool wherever you go. And I love that part of it. But it's good. Oh, sorry. I was just to say, but it's good. I'm feeling refreshed and ready to go. It was like the perfect, I went like pretty much like full dark mode.

I didn't. I think I used my phone a little bit when we were at the hotels to just kind of like keep updated on some stuff. But like I basically told everyone like I went dark. I went off the grid, wanted to just like focus on vacation, focus on like hanging out with my wife. Because I feel like I rarely do that. Like I've always got my head in seven different spaces thinking about a. a million different things. And so it was good.

It was nice to just like completely ignore. Well, I mean, I warned everyone, but basically they completely ignore the world for a little bit and just like focus on that because I like feel like you never like when do you ever really get to do that. Very true. What was the weather like there this time of year? 65.

It was pretty much just 65 and either sunny or cloudy every day. So no ocean. dipping for you. No, I didn't. I thought about it when we were on the island because I looked up the water temp and it was like 63, 64 degrees. And I just had forgotten my swimsuit because I was like I had not planned to like take a dip at any point. And they don't have like at least where like where we were on the island on the island. That was where like the water temp was pretty decent because it's basically in line with like Northern Africa. So it's a little bit a little bit of a little bit further south.

There's like no beaches, really. It's all rocks, rocks everywhere. Cabo de Sao Vicente. We did not make it there. It's probably not the time of year to go there. We did not make it there. I had wanted to. We thought about it, but we didn't have a car.

And when we were on mainland, mainland Portugal, we didn't have a car. We did when we were on the island, and that was bananas driving. It's all mountains. I was in a stick shift, Fiat five, and just like trekking up 65% inclines. Like the feeling where like I'm looking up, I'm going like 20 miles, 20 kilometers an hour,

because that's like as fast as I can get it to go anyway. And it's that, and like part of me is feeling like if there's a glitch in the matrix at any point right now where friction gives out, this car is just going to start rolling backwards. And we're just, it's just good. Because the fiat's already shaped like a semi-circle anyway.

So it's just going to go and it's going to roll. And it was like a very weird feeling. And the people who drive there drive there every day and they drive like maniacs. They are like, I'll be going up the hill. And it's like the road is maybe, you know, maybe you've got two feet a foot on each side of your mirror of road on each side. of road on each side and there'll be it's a two-way street anyway and like a car will come ripping down at you and they'll just they'll just yank it into someone's driveway like it's nothing they don't even think about it meanwhile i'm like panicking as i'm watching this car hurdle toward

me thinking i'm just thinking we're just going to get smoked but it was it was an exciting experience all around and i can't like i said i can't recommend it enough it was pretty affordable as far as like when we got there pricing and all that like eating eating and all that was very reasonable I didn't ever feel like we got hosed or anything like that europe is pretty affordable in general that's why yeah in Europe is nice it's just the expense to get over there is a little much right right it's actually pretty pretty easy to have a fun time on the on the cheap so yeah exactly uh well sweet steve should should we do you think we should get into this?

I think we should get into it. I feel like this was a pretty big week for the NFL so far. I don't know. I'm not a big dates guy, but it seemed like there was a lot going on. Yeah, something. This thing called Free Agency, I guess. I don't know. I don't know.

Teams trying to figure out what the heck they're going to do for the next year and going forward. Some really good moves, some questionable moves. I mean, I think. What are your favorite moves? I mean, the trade by the Bears just to start, I think that that, like, universally is being sought as, like, a home run trade. They got to trade down. They got their, they got two first round draft picks, and they basically got a third because DJ Moore has the potential.

Now, I don't know how high his ceiling is in Chicago right now with, you know, Justin Fields and their offense kind of being the way it is. They still need to address the offensive line. But it's a start. It's a start and it's like it gives them the capital. It gives them the opportunity to start juicing up this lineup and start injecting some talent, some young talent onto that team that desperately needs it. So I love that one. And then the Gino Smith re-signing, I think, was an absolute home run for Seattle. Yes.

Steve, neither of the things you just mentioned were free agency though. I'm getting there. Those are the two that I really like. But then probably the best one as far as like fit and what they bring to the team is probably Jvonne Hargrave to San Fran. Yeah, I mean, Hargrave is obviously a hell of a player. You like that one? I like it in the sense that it just makes that front four insane. I mean, with the pass rushing chops that he has,

which like San Fran has had some decent talent in the interior, but a lot of it has been more of just like controlling the line of scrimmage guys. Like Armstead isn't a super insane pass rusher. And then they've kind of had a rotating cast of guys in there as well. I think Hargrave immediately brings like that much more juice to their pass rushing chops. Just down in and down out. Now, he's still kind of a liability in the run game. but that's an understanding

but yeah but that's but that's not a huge that's not a huge concern for San Fran I feel like they have a their linebackers are solid and they have enough around him that you can kind of shield him a little bit

in the run in front defense yeah if you look at it from what they're going to need to do to beat the other good teams in the NFC I don't think Hargrave actually really helps them. I think if you play the same game they just played and Hargraves on the team, I think the Eagles still run the ball for 200-something yards. Which that's, yeah, that's true.

Beyond that, Steve, I don't, I think Hargraves a great player. He's obviously going to make them better. But how much better, I think it's, it could be incremental because what they're going to now do is they're going to have to play Eric Armstead on the edge. full time, especially on pass down specifically. I don't love that for him. He's a much better pass rusher from the interior. Yeah, that's true.

Javan Hargrave is obviously a better three technique than he is a nose tackle, which we've seen repeatedly. So now it's an interesting situation where you're, yeah, you are getting better at three technique technically, but you're, it's probably incremental. I don't know. They're also losing a couple other good players in the D-line.

So it was an expensive way of fixing that. And now you kind of have like an embarrassment of riches at one spot. No, granted, those three, I mean, they're going to get pressure on the quarterback. Like, Armstead can still win outside. It's just not his strength. So I think that Armstead, yeah, he doesn't really bring you a ton on the F. you move him outside. I just like what Hargrave brings as far as just bringing that,

continuing to bring tenacity to that defense, to that defensive line. I think that it's a defensive line. You can't really have too much talent. And if there was a spot that I'm going to bolster and I'm going to overinvest in, that's the spot I wanted. That's the area I want to do it in. Yeah, I agree.

I mean, the other thing that's probably, I'm probably overreacting to, but it's like Chris Curisector, their D-line coach is probably, the best in the business. True. I guess he had some say in this and probably liked the fit. So if he likes to fit, then I guess I'm forced to like to fit.

But it is interesting because maybe and maybe this is just recency bias or I'm, you know, thinking fondly of previous classes. But as far as free agency classes as a whole, this one didn't have a ton of like juice. Yeah, that's probably true. There's a lot of like there were a lot of functional signings and there are a lot of functional players who definitely who obviously can make a team better. But we'd, it wasn't the top shelf well-known people that I feel like we have every, we have every once in a while.

Yeah, I mean the market may be bearing that out actually, Steve, because you're not seeing any, any market resetting contracts. right right Orlando Brown Jr. signed four year 64 million that's probably under what I think he thought he would get Joanne Taylor did get the four year 80 million dollar deal which is big for sure but there's not like every year

it seems like there's somebody that resets the market for the position right really hasn't happened I mean interior lines kind of this it's actually probably a step down from where it was a year ago edge you know Marcus Davenport the best ed available edge defender signed a one year $13 million deal. Yeah.

There's that. The corners, all the corners got less money than I thought they would, to be fair. The corners, even the running backs, I thought would go, would it get a little bit more than what they got? Like every running back contract that's been signed outside of like franchise tax has been like reasonable. I don't like, I'm not looking at it like, oh my gosh, that's an gross overpay. Like, why would they be investing that much money there?

Like I feel like like you said, a lot of teams. teams are becoming a little bit more frugal, a little bit more, you know, forward thinking with their contracts a little bit more than they had in previous years, which, you know, you and I and Chris were kind of talking about that yesterday. Just that it's their teams are being forced to think more consciously of this as like you said the, you'd said in the chat, like quarterback contracts are going way up and the guarantees in quarterback contracts are going up. tackle contracts are going up, cornerback contracts are going up, wide receiver contracts are going up, not necessarily the ones in free agency, but those top tier guys, the resigns, the re-signs are going up. And so there's like these premier positions are getting so much more money and are being like GMs are being forced to allocate a higher percentage of their cap to these positions, especially if you have someone in-house,

that they're being forced to not immediately be like, okay, I like this free agent, he's the top free agent. Like, let's just get him in the building. And like you said, reset the market. Let's give them the big contract that you think that's, you think is going to happen. Yep. I think there's a few things at play.

Your first point was that the free agency class might not be that good, which I think is there's truth to that for sure. So teams are being smart with what they're giving these guys. You talked about the cap inflation. That's a big deal. And the quarterback market is outpacing the cap market, if that makes sense. Yes. The amount quarterbacks are getting paid is going up faster than the cap is rising.

So everyone's been using the cap as an excuse to give quarterbacks all this crazy money when the reality is we're actually past the point where it makes sense. So I do think that's a thing. Also, Steve, a low-key thing that's happening. And I think we touched on it a little bit in our chat yesterday, but the voided year syndrome that's striking the league right now. The voided year stuff on contracts is kind of new in the way that it's being deployed right now. It's kind of like you think back to the use of the executive order for a president.

Yes. Super rare. And then all of a sudden, George W. Bush gets the second term. He starts using it like, you know, he's, I don't know, an emperor. He's like, it's like Oprah giving away things to the audience, except he's like, executive order, executive order. Right.

And then Barack Obama governed the same way. And then Trump governed the same way. And now you're seeing the same thing from Biden. It's like, oh, they discovered this, you know, loophole in the legislative system. So they're using, well, that's what teams have done with the voided contracts. Like the voided years on contracts. They're adding these voided years. And at some point, the chicken will come home to roost.

And I think you're seeing teams really struggle. like the Eagles have been kicking down the can down the road for a while. Right. They've done a miraculous job, even keeping the guys they've kept, which is crazy. But they also had to lose some guys. The Saints, obviously, every year, it seems like they're having to go through gymnastics to get under the cap. Kansas City as well is another one that like always you see they're like, it's like they have $33,000 in cap space. But real quick, explain just for the listeners and for those.

who aren't informed, like explain what a voided year is, just real quick. Because even I had to ask yesterday, I would like, you know, you hear the term get thrown around and like, it doesn't always get explained. So just real quick, explain to the listeners, like what, what you mean by voided years? So the voided year can be done in two different ways. One, when you sign a free agent to a contract, you can sign them to a three-year deal. And in that, he'll have specific numbers in that contract, you know, you'll have a base salary, a signing bonus, a workout bonus, blah, blah, blah, blah.

A voided year is a way to spread that signing bonus out for your cap hit. Signing bonus gets paid all at once, but that signing bonus can get spread out as the way it affects your cap. And you do that with avoided year. So a guy will sign a three-year deal, but you'll have, you'll tag on a voided year at signing. So there's actually a fourth voided year. He's not under contract for that year, but say his signing bonus was, was $12 million. Yep.

Now you're spreading the cap hit of that out for four years. So it would be $3 million per year. Gotcha. That's your cap. So what you're seeing, though, in at nauseam right now is teams using restructures to add voided years. So that's when you say, when you see,

this is a big misconception, by the way. Like Twitter, Ian Rappap Report will tweet, so-and-so restructured their contract to you know, save X amount of dollars on the cap. Yes. And a lot of people think that means the player agreed to take less money. It's actually the literal opposite of that.

It means the player to take more money right now in exchange for hitting the cap later. And so when teams restructure a player, they are now adding, you know, there's different parameters. I'm not a salary cap expert. So there's a limit to how many voided years you can add, etc., etc., contract size. So when you see a restructure, though, what that means is a team added at least of one voided year onto their contract. and are spreading the remaining signing bonus out or they're converting base salary to signing bonus.

And that's the most common one. So a player, here's a good way looking at. So let's say you are under contract with the Philadelphia Eagles and this coming year you have a $10 million base salary. And then so say your base salary with your bonuses combined, you have a $18 million cap hit. Right. Well, I can then convert your base salary to signing bonus at a voided year.

And now I can spread that $10 million out for the amount of time remaining on your contract plus the voided year. So say you had three years left plus I added a voided year. Now I can save basically $7.5 million on the cap this year. Right. But I have to pay that in future years. Right. So it's a can kicking down the road process. and I think when you looked at the state of the salary cap availability for each team heading into free agency, there weren't very many high numbers.

Of course, you had like Chicago who had like, you know, a literal war chest. Right. They were in the position where like they literally had to spend money. They actually had to or else they were going to get fired. Houston was in the same boat, right? Yes, they were up there as well. We've been to Chicago. I think Carolina may have had some money. Long story short, there was really like eight. eight teams that were actually of functionally above the cap at at the time of free agency at the

time of legal tampering so like eight teams actually had discernible cash to spend on free agents where there was this big group of player big group of teams that had only enough money to cover their draft class or a couple operating expenses then there was a bunch of teams that were over the cap but really there was like at the time of legal tampering there was like eight teams actually had money to spend so I think that's driven the market down a little bit now obviously a lot of those teams end up clearing space, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's not the point. The point is, is not a lot of teams had a ton of cash to play with.

And you're even seeing this with, like, the Lions. Right. Who were, like, in good cap situation. They didn't have a ton, but they weren't cash poor either. Even they are adding, they're doing some voided years on some of these guys. Yeah, yeah. Cam Sutton's year one cap hit is like $3 million or something. Yeah, and they just like they, like they just restructured Charles Harris was another one.

on that. That actually was a renegotiation. That wasn't a restructure. Oh, okay. So he, Charles Harris actually willingly took less money to stay. Which, you don't see that too often. That speaks to the culture going on in Detroit. Kaminsky, same thing. He was more money to play elsewhere. He stayed in Detroit. He took a two year, eight and a half million dollar deal. But what's crazy is he is like one million in guarantees next year and he's only getting paid two million dollars this year. So it's literally a bet on himself contract where he thinks, hey, if I play well this year, I get a really nice raise next year. I respect that. And so that actually kind of segues into what I kind of wanted to talk about today is everybody's kind of grading free agencies and all like all the moves and all that.

What I kind of wanted to do was just take a look at some of the teams that made some more splashy moves. Obviously there's teams that make, you know, tiki tack moves here and there. But you can kind of start to glean what a front off it, like where it's what direction a team is going. How competitive do they think they are? What do they kind of forecast their season to be? And so I kind of wanted to just run, like talk about free agency and the scope of what we think we learned from what we think we learned from these signings or from these moves, whether it's signing or even letting guys walk and go from there. Yeah. And so like the first team that came to, really that came to my mind because, and I'm, because it just kind of surprised me was,

Because with Chicago, and obviously we talked about how they had to spend money. But I didn't, I'm questioning the Tremaine Edmonds signing for them. Because everything else about what they're doing makes sense. I think the T.J. Edwards signing was a, I think that was a home run. I really like. I was probably one of the better bargains of free agency. I loved that signing to get him basically at like the same value that the Lions got Anzolone at. I think that was a home run.

But then they went and they signed Edmonds to, well, it was like, I think four years, $18 million. And that's stupid. It didn't make sense to me, especially after they had just let Roquan Smith walk. Now, obviously, Edmonds and Roquan Smith are completely different players. But what do you see their vision as to like why? why bring both Edmonds and Edwards in at a position that, you know, arguably, you and I are talking about it pretty frequently, but like arguably is one of the least impactful overall on a defense as far as the difference between like a mid-tier guy and an upper level guy? Yeah, some of it is probably just comes down to they had to spend some money. Right.

I don't know. The Edmonds deal is really confusing, but I do think they had to spend money. I was looking at their freedom. I was like, oh, wow, this T.J. Edwards deal, that's a really savvy deal. Super savvy. The minute, like, it was like one of the first to break. And, like, right away, it was like, holy cow, how did they get him for that cheap? Because.

Did they get a two back for Roquan Smith? Yes. Yes, they did. So I was thinking like, oh, wow, they trade to Roquan, get a second round pick, and then they replace him with a good player, but someone who's not going to cost them $100 million. Right. Like Roca costs the Ravens.

So I was like, what an absolute gem of a decision-making process there. And then they went and signed Edmonds and kind of threw all that away. I really did not like the admin signing. It just didn't, I don't know. I don't know what I learned from that other than that they had to spend money. They basically of everything, Steve, so far. I mean, it's

it's actually crazy. They've signed a quarterback. They've signed a running back. They've actually even signed a fullback. They've signed an interior offensive lineman. They've signed a defensive lineman. They've signed two linebackers. They signed a defensive back.

It's like, holy crap. You traded for DJ Moore. They're resetting the roster. That 100% like I know we know like they're resetting, revamping that roster because that roster was old and it was lacking talent. And so they're definitely trying to get younger.

I thought they would take, like, if they were going to make a swing, I thought they were going to take more swings as far on like offensive line guys, especially in a draft that has, that has talent on the offensive line, but isn't super like offensive line talent heavy. I thought that they would take it. I thought they would take a run at like a McGlinchie and some of those like, mid, like the upper tier offensive line free agents. And I was kind of surprised that they didn't.

But it is like that's what Chicago is doing is they're like I said, resetting, revamping. And I get that. I just think that, you know, you're competitive, what you get to be competitive as a head coach, as a front office, you get three to four years. And I just don't, my only qualm with it is that like, I just don't see how Edmonds raises the ceiling of this team over the course of the four years to a level that, like, I think you could have used that money maybe differently and thrown it at different guys. Still, I think that Chicago is doing the right things and taking the right steps to become a competitive team and give Justin Fields a chance.

Yep. Which may, this may have been about that too. It's like, hey, we got to, we have to raise the competitive level of the team to actually properly event. evaluate fields. Right. That could have been part of the math, too. You mentioned offensive line. They did sign Nate Davis to a three-year, $30 million deal to play, presumably right

guard for them. Yes. They were also tied to McGlinchy. They lost the bidding war there to the Broncos. But when you look at what the Broncos paid, like, okay, cool. I'm probably happy they lost the bidding war. Yeah. That's a lot of money.

Yeah, other than that, though, I think that it. That is definitely what it is. Like, we got to, Chicago's thinking they got to raise the competitive bar. Right. And they've, you know, they've been very active players in it. So far. Probably will be going forward as well. Yeah, exactly.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to try and wheel and deal through during the draft and things like that. I think they have a lot, they have a lot of ability to be mobile in the draft and kind of position themselves how they want to. It's a, it's similar to, you know, how the lions were previously, where you felt really good about their ability. to maneuver and go and get the guys they want and things like that. And I think Chicago has that same type of maneuverability with, you know, obviously their cap room and their draft capital that they have. Juxtaposing the two situations, I do think there's some similarities for sure. But the one thing the lines said exceptionally well is they didn't make any long-term commitments

to anybody in those years of the rebuilt, which is good. They drafted well. They allowed those guys to step up and play. And then you really get to evaluate your draft classes that way. And now this was the first year they really, actually it's the first year they signed any free agent to a multi-year deal. Which that was the next team that I kind of wanted to jump to, a team that again was pretty active and has been tied to a lot of different names.

They signed two cornerbacks. They signed a running back. They've been active. You've seen the name floating around a lot. You know, they were rumored to be a part of the Jalen Ramsey trade, things like that. But overall, they've been active. And like you said, more active than they've been since Brad Holmes has come to Detroit. And I think that what we, Detroit is continuing to send the message of how they're building this team.

And it's they are building it through guys that they specifically believe in, that bring a certain culture to their team, which I think, like, Cam Sutton fit that. David Montgomery fit that as well. I mean, there was a quote from polls that had said, yeah, I think it's polls, right, that had said that, like, Montgomery was a huge facet in, like, keeping the locker room intact during their season this year, a season that was wrought with, like, you know, it was pretty bad.

And so, like, he was a big reason for that. And so, like, Detroit is continuing to go after high character guys that have talent. And then they also are continuing to do the thing where they want to take a chance on an upper tier talent that may have lost their way because of injuries or things like that in the way they signed Emmanuel Mosley. Because I, this contract and what they're doing, it reminds me so much of exactly what they did with the DJ chart. signing last year. It's a guy that has shown he can compete at the highest level. He's shown he can be an upper level cornerback, like second cornerback, even low tier first cornerback. It's just he actually been pretty darn good the last couple years. And he was on pace to have his best season by far last year when he got hurt. Right. And he's been, you know, he's been affected by injuries a little bit. And they're

taking a flyer on a guy that, you know, I think a lot of guys are seeing. the culture that's being built in Detroit. And it is. He's taking a bet on himself of like, after the, I think I'm going to overperform this year what I've shown. And I'm going to get a better contract next year. And that seems to be what Detroit likes to do is they like those one year prove it deals on guys that have shown to be like have shown to be solid NFL players.

And they've also shown that they're not going to overspend or they're not going to overspend or they're not going to chase a guy just for the sake of chasing a guy. Yep. So that Detroit's, Detroit is just continuing to show what, what we've believed them to be. And it's, it's impressive because I, like, I feel like this is a free agency period where everybody wanted them to really go in all-end heavy. And they haven't totally done that. They've obviously dipped their toes and gone after a couple guys with Kamsat and Mosley,

Montgomery. But those of, I've, we, while you kind of walk. away feeling those are pretty sensible signings and pretty good. Oh, man. I mean, I'm trying to remove my bias, but like, I don't think a team has had a more impressive offseason. We talk about needs, by the way, like they aggressively attacked their biggest need, which was cornerback.

Yeah. I think what that tells you is this, this team, this regime, they feel like they are ready to win, which everyone would agree with. The window for them to win something has opened. and they couldn't as much as we all would love for them to also draft a cornerback at 6 or 18 or whatever the reality is in a season you're hoping to exceed expectations you're not going to go into that season

hinging everything on a rookie cornerback no you're just not going to do it no double dip they they hit it out of the park with the Sutton deal and then i think mosley is the best signing of free agency so far for the risk reward potential is absolutely massive and it cost them six million bucks right it's it's the chart signing 100% true the only difference is i would say moseley's best football was at this stage was better than charks best football yeah that's mostly has definitely been a number one corner fantastic player when he's healthy so and everything you hear too is that he's recovered well

from the ACL. I think the last formal update we had gotten about Mosley's injury was around playoff time. Yep. His trainer, the 49er staff and a doctor all said that he would for sure be ready by training camp and he might even be able to participate in

OTAs, which like, just massive, massive dub. So I think Detroit is really another good example of this too of them telling you that they're ready to win is the Jamal Williams swap for David Montgomery. could they have easily brought Williams back

at a $3 or $12 million deal? They could have. What they said is, we kind of want to upgrade the position. Like, Jamal, we love you, but we actually want to upgrade the position. And Montgomery, like, it's really hard to measure the intangibles as Jamal Williams brings. It's like it's impossible, especially for guys like you and I. We're not in the lot.

We don't know. So there's value there for sure. But on the field, from an on the field standpoint and player performance standpoint, you cannot deny that David Montgomery is a match. massive upgrade over Jamal Williams. And he's three years younger. So I'd much rather have a 25-year-old on a three-year-old than a three-year deal than a 28-year-old on a three-year deal. Yes.

Jeremy Reisman actually put out a tweet this morning, just kind of his final thoughts. Hold on. I have to correct you. Friend of the show. Friend of the show. And former guests, probably a guest that we'll see at some point later. he actually made a great point of I he said I don't know if Jamal Williams ever reaches what he did this year and I feel more I feel confident that David Montgomery's best season is still ahead of him and I thought that was a I thought that was a perfect way of putting it of the Lions got the ceiling like the ceiling performance out of Jamal Williams last year and that was huge and he was a huge a huge huge catalysts in what the culture is and what the team is going to be.

But now you're taking a bet on a guy who has a higher ceiling and can go above and beyond. And I thought that that was a great way of putting it. Yep. And Jamal, like, I've had a lot of people in my mentions or DMs even ask me, well, do you really think David Montgomery is going to score 17 touchdowns this year? It's like, no. And I don't think Jamal Williams is going to either. That's why it was a franchise record.

Yeah. because it's rare. And it's not like, I don't want to take anything away from Jamal. So I don't want to play this devil's advocate game. But the reality is he led the NFL and goal line touches. When that happens, you're going to score touchdowns. Especially behind that offensive line. Jamal obviously has a skill to get in the end zone.

That is a skill. Being a good goal line back, understanding how to find creases and keep your legs moving. Yes, that is a skill. But he didn't score 17 touchdowns because of that skill. alone. He scored 17 touchdowns because he led the league and goal line touches. So, um, I, yeah, I don't think Montgomery's going to score 17 touchdowns, but I think he's going to produce very well in every other area. The fact that he's a three down back, Steve, is, is interesting because obviously we know they've been frustrated with Swift. Jamal was not

a three down guy and to the point where he wasn't great in pass pro either. Montgomery is probably the best past protecting running back in the league. He's got good hands. Um, and for a guy who gets knocked for his lack of explosiveness. When I was watching the tape, Steve, I was very surprised at the amount of passes he caught downfield, like not talking checkdowns, not talking little, you know, H-5s over the middle of the field. Right. He actually like plenty of wheel routes, all kinds of scramble drill stuff.

Like he caught a lot of passes downfield. I was very surprised with that. Really, really nice soft hands, had good enough explosiveness to beat linebackers on those routes. So, but I, and having a guy like that changes, changes how you deploy your offense too, because now you have two guys that are versatile in both the running game and the passing game. Swift.

You don't have controls anymore. Yeah, exactly. And that, that's what he provides. Jamal Williams, it was. It was kind of a tell of like, well, if we take a guess on a run, we're probably going to be right more than we're going to be wrong. and that's a fine bat on a defense's part. Yep.

And even if it is a pass, we don't really have to account for them. Exactly. Moving on to the next one, I want to talk about what in the world is the Raiders plan. What do the Raiders want to be? What are they trying to do? Because absolutely none of the moves that they made seem to even correlate with the others. It felt like a, it honestly feels like watching an 11-year-old play Madden and sign free agents that he likes because of, because they play for his favorite team in real life. That's what it kind of felt like, like why they go and sign Jacoby Myers when you have Hunter Renfro in the building.

You let Derek Car go, but then you sign Jimmy Garoppolo. And then you trade Darren Waller for a third-round pick, which that, I think is kind of a I don't know I don't hate it for both sides I don't love it but again just like altogether

I cannot figure out what direction the Raiders are trying to go in and I don't know how much runway Josh McDaniel's going to have because it's so nonsensical I'm surprised this is surprising to you

this is this is what patriots dudes do man they go they're a a wrecking ball i know it's it's a it's a covert operation by bill bellichick to destroy other franchises and keep the competition level low i mean the patriots are kind of right there with them i have no idea what the patriots are trying to do either like i honestly i was going to pair them together just because it's funny that like jacobi went from the patriots to the raiders but then the patriots just went and signed juju smith schuster which again it's like there's just two teams that made splashes in free agency but they didn't make a i like they don't make a ton of sense to me well for the raiders this you know what they're doing is they're getting they're just getting

josh's guys this is what they all do matt patricia when he came to detroit he didn't sign anybody from new england guys it's yeah it's literally what they do so he brings in jimmy he brings in jacobby meyers he even brings in philip dorset yeah he had he'd sign him for year. Yeah. So, like, he's bringing in his guys. He's going to run his offense. You know, we're going to trade Darren Waller because we can't run a team without making

false enemies, you know, because we're insuffable people that I'm just, I've had it with these guys. Like, when are they going to stop? When is the league going to stop hiring New England? This has to be the last straw. Like, it has to be. It really does. Because this is, I mean.

What's the arena? are going to go win the Super Bowl? Yeah, right. I'll eat my hat live in front of everyone. I will eat a hat live on camera for everyone to watch if the Raiders win the Super Bowl this year. And that, I will hold myself to that because, like, it is. I mean, Matt, do you think of Matt Patricia in Detroit? And just, like, some of these Charlie Weiss back in the day, like, some of these guys,

it's just like they're, they just make. Yeah, it's just like I want to try and create the team that I had that I just left. Four is in Miami. Joe Judge in New York. The list is honestly endless. It just, it's always happens. This is what happens. Yeah.

And so, like, just to go over it, Jacoby Myers getting signed three years, $33 million, I think $22 million guaranteed. At face value in a vacuum, a solid signing. Jacoby Myers is a solid player who brings like a good slot receiver to the team. So in a vacuum, as far as like contract numbers go, like, that's a good signing. I liked it. But I don't like it for the Raiders because you already have a slot-specific guy who operates, you know, in the 5 to 10-yard range, who's a good route runner who can, you know, get you those hard yards in Hunter Enfro. And so now they just doubled up.

And I don't even know if there's a plan to move from Renfro or what happened. I know he obviously dealt with some injuries last year. But it just said like it doesn't make sense to bring in a Jacoby Myers. Yeah. Well, and not only that, like Darren Waller was like not really an inline tight end. He also played in the slot. So they were collecting slot assets. Obviously they've now traded Darren Waller.

Yep. Cool, whatever. They don't, which they don't even have a tight end in the room right now. Well, yeah, that's true. What are they going to do with Hunter Renfro now? What are they going to, Devante Adams plays in the slot some too. What, what's happening? Like, 12 personnel?

Well, what tight ends are they going to use? I mean, it's, it is really hard to see what's happening. Yeah, and like, of all the receivers, go get like I think a Darius Slayton or a DJ Chark that would have made sense to me yeah to replace to replace Hollins yeah yeah it's like it would be an upgrade and a guy who can you know who's who's younger who has shown that they can they can um make plays especially with like some not great quarterback play like Slayton's been he has some hands issues but he's been solid playing in new york with Daniel Jones, who up until this year and even then, has never played that great.

And DJ Chark was in Jacksonville before Trevor Lawrence came along. And he had a couple blow-up years. And even last year, he looked good in Detroit when he was healthy. It's just, it's a team that they're, like the guys that I felt fit for them and for their needs, they just didn't go get. Yeah. Have they done anything on defense yet? I don't think they have, have they?

Nothing that I've, nothing that was splashy enough to. Jerry Tilleri. Yes, that was it, the Tilleri. Yeah. But other than that, not a lot of defensive signings, which was like, abhorrently their weak spot last year, has been their weak spot for the last five years.

And, yeah, their big splash signing was going and signing Jerry Tilleri, who was like slowly leaking out of the NFL as he gets his last, last, last, last, last, chances with a couple of teams here and there. We'll talk about one more team, and then we'll get you out of here because you have a million things to do. including releasing a draft guide tomorrow, which is going to be insane. But the last one that I, that like caught my eye is a team that upgraded a position. And we're kind of staying in the NFC North here, but the Vikings, I liked what they did at cornerback, a team that, again, like they had a very defined weak spot last year on their team.

And the cornerback position was bad. their past defense overall struggled. They were the worst. I mean, they were one of the worst. And at times they had a stretch where they were genuinely like one of the worst in NFL history. And they went and they let Patrick Peterson walk. They go and they get Byron Murphy.

And then they also bring in Isaiah Oliver or Josh Oliver, sorry. Tight on Josh Oliver. So Isaiah Oliver is the quarterback, right? He went to the 49ers. believe. Unless I'm mistaken. Where is he? Now I'm...

Isaiah Oliver is, yeah, the corner from Atlanta, the big slot corner, he went to San Francisco. Oh, that's... I made a mistake. I was reading it wrong. But either way, I liked the Byron Murphy signing was more so what I was trying to get at. Yeah. Where was that?

The Murphy signing is interesting because the Vikings need a lot of help in the secondary. They obviously release Canaan. Dancler they let Patrick Peterson walk it's tough I don't know how much Murphy's going to help them they need a lot of help there Steve would I almost feel like I'd rather have Peterson back for two years 14 million no or do you like the the versatility Murphy gives you I like the versatility in the youth that Murphy brings yeah it's a two year deal though you're not youth isn't as important but no but I think I Patrick Peterson I don't think he has a up like he's obviously his way down, Murphy's, I think, can still ascend a little bit.

Yeah. I think he has the ability to take another step. Yeah. To add to a team that, like, they play a ton of cover three in their, in their defense. And I just think that he offers the ability to just bolster a secondary that needed something. It needed anything. And that's where that's where I kind of feel that I like, I like Murphy over Peterson, is that Peterson was there last year. And I don't think that he added too much to it.

I think at least Murphy is a shakeup who can bring, again, more athleticism. I think Peterson, you started to see him lose a step. He's technically still very sound, but his overall athleticism is starting to slip. And I think that's where Murphy offers a step up in the athleticism and the step up. and like a little bit more playmaking ability for the Vikings. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I mean, Pete, the cover three they run really helps Peterson kind of get back to a sustainable level of cornerback play. But he was a liability on vertical concepts for sure.

Murphy will give them some flexibility too. So even if they go draft an outside corner, maybe they like Murphy in the slot. Or if they draft the slot corner, they can keep Murphy on the outside. I do like that component of it. The other moves they've made, though, have been weird. I think the Josh Oliver move was the weirdest one of the entire offseason so far. Three years, $21 million for your backup tight end. You're going to have to pay Hawkinson probably market sending money next year.

Yeah. Or is that this? Yeah, next year. Hockerton's going into year five, right? Yes. Yes. So that extension might even get done this off season. I don't know what they're thinking.

They gave up a second and a third for Hawkinson. it kind of seems like they probably shouldn't value tight into that much. No, especially after like the Irv Smith experiment failed. It just didn't work out. And again, like that's you brought in you brought in Hawkinson to not have to do this exact thing. And so like the offensive move, yeah, that I don't like that one. But I like taking a flyer on Marcus Davenport and I like bringing in Byron Murphy. fee. I think that

that offer, again, it was a defense that needed something. The offense will see, they re-signed Madison as well. But they're not, it doesn't look like they're bringing back Delvin Cook. We don't know yet. They have to trade him and they have to find a partner to trade him.

True. Which that's, I mean, that's another section for another pod. Everybody asking for teams to go and trade a running back, like, it's not that easy. Like I've like like like for example I've seen it with the lions everybody I've seen a bunch of fantasy people who are like Now trade d'Andre swift

It's if it were that easy I don't think he would be in Detroit anymore already See yes he's not going to spend an extra minute here than he needs to Yeah so like I love I've seen a lot of fantasy people Tweeting free dandre swift and I'm like Free him from what His weak mentality His inability to play through injury

injuries to his inability to sack up and play through injuries that way you want to free him from is if so we're waiting yeah and if you like he's never going to be a bell cow and stop right stop imagining he's going to be a bell cow he's not he can he can hardly be a half cow get it oh my goodness um I love like go up like you so free agency does bring out a lot of good takes and because this is take talk talk about this I think my favorite thing I saw this week was and it was just I saw it a couple times on Twitter from like not anybody reputable, but just like fans throughout Twitter. A couple times I saw people who are jumping on being like, can't believe my team

signed a guy that's 65 overall and a guy that's 67 overall. And I love that there are people out there that grade their free agency signings based on Madden rankings. That is my favorite piece of information that I saw this week. I almost, I've never, I haven't seen this personally, Steve. That's a hilarious. Hilarious. And it gives me an idea. I almost want to start a burner account where I just troll everyone on Twitter with

under the context of Madden ratings. Oh, it'd be so much fun. Trying to argue with people and win arguments based on Madden ratings. Oh, it'd be so much fun. I mean, like. So it would be a great bit. Someone has to do that if it's not going to be mean. Yeah, who knows if these people were trolling, but I saw a couple.

And I was like, this is so, I love this. Like that to just like, if you unironically are sitting there and saying like, I'm pissed in my team because we went and signed, you know, guy X. And I caught him on Madden because he's a 69 overall. Like, why are we bringing that guy in the building? I love that mentality. And I think it's hilarious. And I wish I could live that. just free and loose with my opinions.

That is hilarious. All right, let's tie a bow on the Vikings and then get out of here. But real quick, do you know what the Vikings are going to be next year? Do you know? They're going to be underdogs. Speaking of underdog, have you seen Underdog Fantasy football yet? 2022 NFL season is over,

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thought we were putting an end of that but they're still getting away with that you went on and it stopped it stopped the protest so minor plug though i know that our guys at fantasy points do do a live are going to do a live show on or a live show live stream on wednesdays doing best ball drafts uh i advise It was last night. Yeah, but they're going to be doing it. What day of the week is it? It's Thursday. I thought it was Friday.

Yeah, so Wednesday night, 7.30. Yep, tune in. Chris Wack, Scott Barrett, and Grand Barre, I'm sure Grand Barthiela hop on a couple. Like Thomas T, like the producer of the show, he jumps in there as well. Yeah. It's good content. Chris and Thomas really know their stuff. I'm not so sure about that Scott guy, though.

we're still trying to figure him out a little bit I'm trying to figure Scott out but well I'm sure I'm thinking Steve I want to say one thing about the Vikings yes their signings have shown me

is I don't think they think they're ready to win I think they know last year was a little bit of an anomaly one year deal with Davenport two year deal with Murphy these are like bandaid type moves not let's push the cart forward type moves. So I don't know. That's my take.

You wanted to know what I thought we were learning from these moves? That's what I think we're learning from these moves. Yeah. And I think I agree. And I think that's incredible self-awareness, if that is their view. Because not a lot of teams can do that. Not a lot of GMs can look in.

We're not a lot of coaches can do that. Knowing the backlash, the potential backlash that will coach. with, you know, regression. Yep. Like, they know they're going to, they know they're going to hear from the fans because not everybody's reasonable

and can understand that their one score record was absolutely absurd last year. And what they did is so hard to repeat that to even make a bet on it would be pretty insane. Agreed. And so good. I mean, that's why, like, I wanted to highlight them because I think that it is that is like their self-awareness of what they what it seems

like they think going into this year is pretty impeccable and something that you don't often see a lot of times you do see that where it's like it's like shit we just won this many games we have to go all in we're there we're right there not potentially understanding that hey you got a little fluky here and there yep yeah and i think you know their their gym is supposed to be you know very analytically driven he probably understands that the real way to build the team is through the draft and he's not going to get carried away with with frequency. So I think that is probably a positive. But anyways, that's, I feel good about what we talked about.

Steve. Why don't you get us out of here? Yes. I think that we have so much more to talk about going forward as the offseason continues. Everybody look out tomorrow for Brett's draft guide to drop. It's going to be massive. It's going to be informative. It's going to be awesome.

You can poke fun at him, whether you completely disagree. You can shout from the mountaintops how insanely correct he's going to be and how he knows everything. And also, to supplement that, don't forget to listen to Brett with his on the clock podcast, which is every day up until the draft. And he, this week, dude, you had just five. knockout punches in a row for guests. Just an insane lineup. And so I like cannot stress enough to our listeners that if you're thinking you don't get

enough of Brett to voice in your life, especially now that he's upgraded his sound and he has that ASMR voice going, it's even more pleasing to listen to. Like go listen to the on the clock podcast because he's got, like I said, he's got some insane guests. He had Thorneyes, Jermon, he had PFF, Steve, Chris Wex. appeared in the beginning of the week. Like just... Danny Kelly tomorrow.

Danny Kelly tomorrow. He had Ian Cummings on. Like just an insane list of guys. And so like please read the draft guide tomorrow, listen to his podcast, continue to listen to our podcast. Brett's also tweeting more at BG Whitefield. Go check him out. He's tweeting, you know, stats from our fantasy points data that's going to be coming out soon.

And it's in a lot of like scouting videos. It's very good. And then, you know, I'm starting to try. I'm trying to up my tweet game now as well. So please give me a follow at Call Me, Steve O7. And, yeah, we're just getting started this year. The offseason is just getting started, get excited. It's going to be a lot of fun.

And we will see you all next week. And we are out. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points Podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform. and come join the roster at fantasy points.com.