Fantasy Football Daily - Future NFL Stars Identified + UPDATED 2025 Dynasty Rookie Rankings & Flag Plants with Thor Nystrom

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Fantasy Points continues the march to the 2025 NFL Draft with Theo Gremminger bringing in Thor Nystrom of Fantasy Life to bring you an updated 2025 Rookie Dynasty Rankings and Flants. Where to find us: http://twitter.com/thorku http://twitter.com/TheOGFantasy Join The Discord Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/discord#/ Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When planning for life's most important moments, sometimes the hardest part is simply knowing where to start. That's why we're here to help. When you pre-plan and prepay a celebration of life with us, every detail will be handled with simplicity and professionalism, giving you the peace of mind that you've done all you can today to remove any burden from your loved ones tomorrow. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. The Dignity Memorial brand name is used to identify a network of licensed funeral cremation and cemetery providers owned and operated by affiliates of Service Corporation International. Identifying future fantasy football stars out of the 2025 NFL draft class. I'm Theo Greminger. Welcome to Fantasy Points, Fantasy Football Daily. We've been going to the mattresses with our 2025 rookie coverage all week long.

Brett Whitefield and I have dove into a number of subjects. We had JJ Zacharyson on last week on School of Scott. Derek Brown joined us right here on Fantasy Football Daily. And next week we have our first fantasy points rookie draft where we're going to be doing a six-headed rookie draft, Joe Dolan, Tom Tipple, Ryan Heath, Brett Whitefield, myself, and Graham Barfield. We're going to be doing a hopefully three rounds, though. With that group, I think we've got to be able to get through three.

But you've been crushing it. You're over at Fantasy Life right now. You've been sort of synonymous not only with fantasy football coverage, but also NFL draft coverage in general. You're mocking all seven rounds. You have the most absurdly long player list. deeper you going in terms of your overall NFL draft rankings as of mid-March? Well, you know, we'll do the 500 player big board with the 500 comps, as always.

But the position rankings, I always get deeper than that. So it would probably be between total if you include the position rankings, but probably be like 650. It's like something like that. 650's wild. So like you really enjoy UDFA signings and all that stuff when we get down to it. That gets your juices boiling? It really does. I call it the dessert draft. And I think it's, I think it's one of the, I think it's, well, how do I put it? The last money ball frontier of NFL transactions. It's, it's the one place where you can money ball out value for very close to free if you're better than your competition at, you know, at scouting. And then the free for all aspect, you know, those phone calls start happening late day three. So, you know, you need to get in there with your competitive offers. But, you know,

I just love the UDFA thing. And I rank so many players because I want to have UDFA class rankings after, you know, after those classes are assigned that are not me eyeballing it, right? Like, I want to have quantifiable metrics, at least how I rank those guys out in advance of the draft. Yeah, this could be a really fun year for UDFA is because of the depth and quality of the running back class. And last year we saw, of course, Jalen Coker, year before Sean Tucker, some of these guys do slip through the cracks, whether it's injuries, whether it's just they get boxed out because of the quality of the class or the needs of NFL teams. Really, really fun one to look into.

So Brett Whitefield has talked extensively about his process. Curious your process, analytics, film, how much film are you like when you're watching a prospect? How far back do you go? I mean, you go pretty deep. I know it's done previous podcasts with you. and you'll talk about what a guy did three years ago and context of the team. And I like how you talk about teammate context,

quarterback context with some of these receivers. So where does it start for you when you start, like laying it out with these prospects? Like when they get into college, you know, because in the falls, I cover card football. I watch more college football live than any human being showed. You know, upstairs, I got the three wide screens and then I'll have the laptop going.

So, you know, we watch Max, Jan. We watch the conference. USA now they have the Tuesday and Wednesday games and before Maction starts in October. So, you know, starting then, you know, you can watch every single day and then four games per time slide, you know. And so like that's, that's my baseline for all the guys following them through their college careers. And then you get into the spring and then each individual guy, I have a little research process on them, you know, going back and reading. That's where I pick up some of the stuff, you know, from their backgrounds, they're, you know, and their recruiting process.

Recruiting is the one thing I don't really follow. like in the moment and then watching the cutups and then getting into their analytics and comparing them to the other guys in the class and then you know and then also going down to senior bowl going down to the combine and then all the folks you talk to there and all the other folks you talk to on the phone throughout the spring and at the end of it you know you you want to just get as clear a picture on each of the prospects as you can to rank them accurately and then yeah you lay out your position rankings and then what my funest day of the year is when I get to sit down and do the 500 board. I've cleared everything on the schedule that day.

You know, and then I just go down and, you know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, but like, you already have the position ranking. So then you just sort of, you know, rainbow it down. It's, it's a gratifying day, you know, when that thing comes out. But yeah, that's how I do it. No, for, for sure. And question for you, when, when you're looking at the specific positions, are there stats that you like drawing from in terms of college production? And of course, not everything is equal. There's obviously quality of competition, certain teammates, teammate scores and all that sort of thing fall into play. But is there a few stats that sort of resonate with you that you circle heavily when looking at college production?

I mean, like, you know, for instance, like running backs, I like the yards after contact, you know, and the broken tag, that elusive rating. But, you know, I mean, it's everything, right? Like, because that, you know, that speaks to their, some of the rushing ability that receiving stats, of course, are important for them to. You know, every single position, I could toss you seven or eight, you know, and just in the name of completing that sort of holistic picture that you have of those, it's not a one size fit up fits all. And some of the guys, it's different depending on their circumstance, what, you know, analytical, you know, that you're looking at in, you know, as far as that goes. but yeah, it's a bunch. No, for sure. And when you're looking at specifically the four big positions for the,

for us in fantasy football, quarterback, running back, tight end, wide receiver, where do you feel most comfortable evaluating and sort of least comfortable? I think running backs are the easiest one because it's so straightforward. You know, and yeah, just straightforward. and then, you know, with the testing metrics, everything like that. Tight end is tricky. Quarterback is easily the hardest, you know, just like because it becomes so difficult to unspool them from the system they're into teammates that they're playing with, all the circumstantial stuff. So, yeah, you have to have a bit more conviction on that.

With quarterbacks, you absolutely have to watch all of their snaps. There just isn't another way around it. like I talked, you know, DeWain and then JJ as well as far as neither of those guys have models for quarterbacks, you know, projection models, because it's really difficult to point at the stats that matter for that in terms of the projection because it just gets too muddy. There isn't like, you know, five or six or seven that you can point to and you're like, if they're elevated numbers at these, then we can pretend them to have success. Like the bill part sells seven criteria.

I mean, like, that's what he came up with back in the day. But like we don't have something like that analytically for the quarterbacks. Speaking of the quarterbacks, one thing we saw last year was Jaden Daniels and Bo Nix, both with immense success out the gate. Both of those guys were extremely experienced in terms of college starts, in terms of a huge sample size that NFL teams and we as, you know, people trying to sort it out fantasy wise, had to, evaluate. On the flip side, a couple of very noticeable guys who have either failed to deliver

or looked at his bust at this point had a very limited sample size. Trey Lance, of course, hardly played as a collegiate. Then we had Anthony Richardson, who was the ultimate like, went nuts, had a very, very strong season at Florida, backed it up with an incredible performance at the NFL Combine, but has really failed to deliver what we wanted in terms of of fantasy football and was benched at one point last year. Do you think the NFL is going to start putting more of a premium on drafting these experienced older signal callers where they're able to sort it out a little bit easier and maybe be a little more skeptical and a little apprehensive with these kind of tools guys

at the quarterback spot? I think so I think it's twofold. Yeah, you have to bake it in to your evaluations. It becomes a, those become data point. in the analytics, right? I mean, so like, you know, it's already being imbued there. And certainly that's, you know, just in terms of your mind, it's, you know, sort of the cautionary tales that are going to, you know, point you at similar guys.

And maybe we should, we should think harder about this. But I think the other end of it is, and this goes into NIL, you've seen quarterbacks the last couple years that prior to, prior to NIL, they absolutely would have been in the draft before then. Bonix is a great example. If it wasn't for NIL, Bonix would have come out the year before. He would have been a fourth, fifth,

maybe even sixth round pick, right? But then he goes back to Oregon because they were going to pay him more than you get paid as a fifth round pick as a rookie. And he had the year that he had. And all of a sudden, he's a first rounder. You know, again,

that's going to become more of that norm going forward because of the NIO. And that's only going to help both sports, college football, obviously, you have better players staying longer now. And then the NFL, and particularly at that position to your point, you're going to get more developed prospects coming in. Regarding the NFL draft combine, which I know you attend live and you basically cover the entire thing for work, what's your favorite aspect of it in terms of the evaluation for the players?

Because the on-field testing stuff you could watch on TV, a lot of it, when you're there live, what are some of the things that really help you the most and your biggest takeaways and sort of maybe your favorite things about it? The information that you get, you know, and I suppose testing data, you know, becomes information too, but like that. I'm talking about, like, you know, outside of that, you get information at the podium session, certainly. And when, you know, you get to ask the prospects questions that, you know, the questions that you want to ask, but then also, you know, everyone else around town, all the people that you bump into and all the conversations that you have and you end up finding out fascinating things that you would not have

learned if if you weren't there in person. So some of them I can share. Some of them, you know, you can't. But, you know, you just learn really interesting things. And it's, it's just another, you know, a thing in deference of getting as full of a picture on all these guys as you possibly can, just get as much information as you possibly can. Then you can cross-check some of the things that you hear if it's for the first time and, you know, and try, yeah, try to track that stuff down. Yeah, I love that. We're hanging out at the senior bowl was sort of the same thing where you get to kind of talk to people. You maybe pick up some nuggets on some players, getting to have that access to the guys, getting to hear them, you know, share their process,

maybe learn a couple of things that are new and different. It's fantastic the access you get to these guys and being able to sort of unravel it. Speaking of the combine, and who's your biggest combine riser, maybe in your ranks or maybe just in general, a guy whose combined performance put into context with how you already viewed him is starting to creep up in terms of where you're at on this prospect. A lot of people talk about the guy called King Tutin after the combine. So I won't toss him out because he was a winner on a lot of things. I'll go with a different running back.

DJ Giddens. DJ Giddins from Kansas State. man did he test well at six foot and change and then 212 989 rass right and the 4 43440 very very impressive for his size he's he's such a smooth mover on film but i didn't know that he was quite as athletic as he is sometimes he makes it easy when he's running and so some of those guys that you know like sometimes you think a guy's faster when there's just all the movement and they're chugging you know and stuff like that when when you're watching them on film. But Giddens is just so dang smooth, you know, and he's a long strider. So in the instances where he got in the open field, some of those long strider guys,

Randy Moss is the all-time example of this, but like, you know, sometimes it's like they don't, they're moving way faster than it might appear to the naked eye, right? And so Giddens was a big riser with that athletic testing profile that he turned him. Yeah, and he's one that Brett Whitefield and I discussed a number of times on this pod. because of that it was just exceptional when put into context to the production that he had at Kansas State. He's the ability to absorb volume. This is the guy that J.J. Zacharyason was high on.

I know Scott Barrett likes him a lot. I've moved him up in my running back rankings. I think he's also with this combine and with the NFL sort of valuing athleticism and big playability more so than maybe in previous seasons. I think Giddens is headed to a comfortable round two. selection. Would you agree, it's not round two, day two selection. Would you agree that he's sort of projected and you would view him as a day two selection at this point? I would. Yeah. I would. I think he's going in round three is where I think he's going. I would be very surprised if he fell out of round three that with the production profile that he has and then that testing profile that

he turned in, I don't, I don't know how a guy like, even in this stacked running back class. And And I'm also fascinated to see because it's so deep, will that depress the price points just a little bit of the non-genty running backs? But even so, I don't even think a market factor can push out a guy with that production profile and that athletic profile at that size. I've taken sort of a flip side approach with that where we've seen it in years past where we have maybe an exceptional wide receiver room. Some years we've seen it with like the cornerback position. where if there's a really, really strong group, sometimes there's a gravitational pull that actually pulls guys up higher

and not necessarily playing chicken to, I'll let them fall and maybe I'll get them next round. It's a let me go get my guy. I just saw three running backs go off the board in the first 10 picks of round two. Let's push another guy here and not really risk it on round three. So I think for us as fantasy managers,

round two is going to be so, so much fun. We're going to take a quick break. And we come back. we're going to get Thor's running back rankings. We're going to talk to him about Ashton Genty and find out who his running back to is in this class. When you're flying Emirates business class, sampling our range of vintage wines

from the largest selection in the skies, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates, fly better. Welcome back, Theo Griminger, Fantasy Football Daily, right here on Fantasy Points. check out Brett Whitefield's prospect guide. It's coming to fantasy points on the website, and it's free.

All you need to do is have a login, register on the site, and you have access to an unbelievable resource to help you win your dynasty leagues, help you crush your redraft leagues this year. Brett has extensive data like Thor. This guy is an athlete maniac in terms of watching every single game of every single prospect, and you have access to it again, right at fantasy points.com. Let's keep this thing going.

Theo, if that wasn't for free, I was about to say, can you send me one of those? Brett's the man. Yeah, Brett is an absolute savage. Yeah, so Brett, Brett is absolutely the man and his process is extensive. Anybody who listen to this pod has heard Brett

sort of just absolutely crush it with these prospects. And you guys are in lockstep on a number of players, Thor, but there's a couple of players you guys disagree with. So we'll get to hear definitely a fresh set of perspective. on some of these high-end guys. Let's talk about this running back class in context. It's an exceptional group. Yeah.

2017 is constantly the bar fantasy football managers are trying to cross when looking at a collective group of running backs. Do you think we're there? Is this the challenger to 2017, where we could see multiple backs giving us RB1 production and even more a bunch of backs who are usable RB2 types for us in fantasy? And specifically, some guys that will have, longevity because of their draft capital and ability to translate to scoring fantasy points

and helping NFL teams win. A thousand percent. Yeah, I mean, this is this is a worthy contender to step in the ring against that class. You know, and we'll see at the end of the day, of course, but like in, in terms of heading in, it's just such a dumb running back class. And it's just stupid, right? And it's funny because last year it was the trashiest running back class ever, right? And then, you know, all this stuff is cyclical, right?

We had last year we had the incredible quarterback class. Now, not so much, right? We had a couple awesome wide receiver classes in a row. This year, not so much. But running back, you know, again, it's all just cyclical. But yeah, this is for dynasty owners, this is the year to get in. And what I, you know, I've advocated this for NFL teams is like, if you can create the roster space where you're able to take two running backs in this classes, the Packers did

this with Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams, right? Like, but that, if I was an NFL general manager, that's what I would do in this class, right? You need a running back. I'll take one round three. I'll take another one round six or seven. I'm going to sign another UDFA one too.

That's how many there are, right? And we'll just see if we on earth a gem there later for free. But yeah, this is the year for dynasty owners going and get all your running back this year. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. And this is, I think that's the strategy. And I'll take a step further. This is a year where your third round.

Picks, whether it's Superflex, whether it's single QB, third round picks have a lot more value than in other years because, yeah, you're going to see a bunch of these guys slip through the cracks and become real values. There's more running backs with a chance to have a Bucky Irving to Tyrone Tracy-like impact coming out of day three than maybe we usually see in previous classes. I think that's another aspect for us as dynasty managers. And I'd like your idea here of NFL teams just double-tapping it, taking their chances, maybe sorting out running back two and running back three with just two guys from this class, which might create headaches for us in terms of fantasy football, but is really smart for these NFL teams.

For sure. Yeah. And, you know, just speaking to this and a recent NFL transaction that I believe speaks to it on what day was it when, was it Sunday when the Vikings traded for Jordan Mason? Jordan Mason, yep. Was that sign? I think it was. That was, yeah, this past weekend.

Yeah. So when they did that, my initial knee-jerk reaction, especially when I hadn't seen the trade terms like right when it had Twitter, I was like, ah, crap. Because I want at that point, the Viking, they had re-signed Aaron Jones. And then the only other running back on the roster is Ty Chandler, who stinks and is going to be released. So they had two open spots. I was banging the table. Quasi, take two running backs. Now, the Vikings only have four picks currently in this coming draft, but one of them is the 24th

you know, my thought process was trade down, you know, and get extra picks. And you'll eventually have an extra six or seven. So you can double tap that position. So I was like, oh, crap. But then you see the trade compensation that the Vikings gave up, it was the selection they had acquired two days before that for Ed Ingram, who's speaking of trash and he would have been released had they not gotten that trade. So the main component of the trade was a guy that you were going to release.

And then they moved down like 20. spots late in day three in this this coming class and it was like isn't that interesting that's a young running back who is really really good and a perfect fit for that that zone scheme of course as what he run with the 49ers and you're thinking why did why did jordan mason and they don't have to pay him much either why why did he only go for that it's a market factor thing right i mean why were teams not offering more in draft equity for jordan mason they're all they're all they're all and dead red on those running backs in April. Everybody is licking their chop.

So, you know, Quasi was able to swoop in there with a low ball offer that got there. But again, I just think it speaks to this environment. We're in this spring where everyone at the poker table, all 32 players, they're aware that there is about to be a buffet served of running backs. Yeah, and I think this is something Scott Barrett's talked about a number of times, sort of the impact this class is going to have is not just these guys are good, but it could torpedo and ruin the value of some backs that we view as somewhat safe for our dynasty roster, somewhat safe basketball picks.

It's a wild one. And I think that this is also, this is a year where there might be guys who are starting running backs who are going to immediately have a challenger behind them. You bring up a guy like a get-ins, a guy like a Bachel Tootin. These guys can play. And these guys are going to be right there giving competition to a back that we think might be solidified. they only stay solidified for so long in this league until the guy behind him is better and ready to play. So that's a fun one.

Let's start out with Ashton Genty. The number one player in this class, no matter what the format is, you've been huge in terms of your praise for him. Where does he stack for you historically? Now, compare it to other running backs who you've evaluated at this point in the process in recent time. Since the Sequin draft, I would go. So Sequin and then just a bit, a little bit behind him would be Genty and then a little bit behind him, Bijon. I, you know, it's Bejan, I think Genty is better than Bejan. They obviously different kind of a prospect than Seekon.

Sequin is just like the thoroughbred athlete guy, you know, just insane with that. But Gentie's the hardest dude to tackle that I've seen in the 10 years that I've been doing this. just absolutely ridiculous contact balance he gets moving he has that element of power is an awesome stiff arm uh you just need you need waves of guys to tackle him he'll i mean there was the play against penn state where he he snapped like six tackles on one attempt uh that and then you have the multi multi versatile skill set right a guy who played wide receiver uh his junior year in high school slot receiver took over for Marvin Mims there at Friscoe High in Texas. And then as a, as a sophomore at Boise State, they did all kinds of cool stuff with him as a receiver and would

line him up in the slot. They'd line him up all wide. The Routty ran out at the backfield. This past year, he didn't do as much of that stuff because they funneled all of his usage into carries. You know, they were trying to get him to the Heisman ceremony and break Barry Sanders' Sanders' record. And he came up number two in both of those things, but it was still a very successful season for Gentie. And yeah, just an amazing running back press. I got, I'm not the guy who's like, you know, banging the, like first round running backs, generally I'm not there with you. But Gentie, I'm not going to argue with him, almost wherever he goes, you know. I mean, like, you know, whether, you know, that be Las Vegas or Chicago or Dallas or whatever, no, no problem.

That guy is going to be such an enormous value add to an offense and not just as a runner. he's very much going to improve their passing game as well. So I'm seeing in some very high stakes dynasty leagues the power to trade the 101 for the 102 and next year's first. Is that something you'd be comfortable doing or is Genty just so impactful that you'd have a little trouble with that sort of thing? And again, there's different context to this. Next year's first could be a lot better looking depending on your opponent's record. but I've seen this trade go down several times over. A few of these high stakes FFPC managers are either doing that deal to get that extra first.

And some of them are like, okay, if that's what it takes, I'm getting myself some gentie. Where would you fall on that trajectory? So you're saying it's the rookie draft and the one guy's got the very first pick and then the other dude's got the second. 102 and a random first next year. That trade's been going down a few times. No, no, not for me. I just think there's too much of a drop off. you know, McMillan's fine with a receiver class, but, you know, and Hunter, if he was just a peer receiver,

but obviously the snaps are going to go down. You start, or Hampton, right? Like, to me, it's just too big of a drop off. And especially at the running back position where, you know, as you know, modern times, you know, it's like back in the day when we were, when we were kids, you know, when we were kids playing fantasy football, it was like, you know, the, you had the Belkow running backs. right and it was like we started off every drive is belcar running back back back but now there's there's so much of the split usage in the committee backfields gentie is a thrillback he he he he's

going to be the belcow he is going to get all the touches he's going to assume this enormous amount of usage both as the the runner and the receiver i i i just i can't i can't turn that one down you would have to you would have to give me i mean anyone has a price but you're going to have to give me more than one two and and your first rounder next year to complete that trade special, special talent. And you mentioned you don't care where he ends up. I mean, I'm sort of there with you. Is there a dream spot for you when it comes to Gentie?

And Brett and I did an entire show on this one, dream landing spots for these 2025 rookies. You can listen to that anywhere you get your feed, anywhere you get your pods right here on Fantasy Football Daily. That was a lot of fun. How about you on this one with Genty? Where's that dream spot where he lands in that spot? You're like wheels up. Let's take him early in the first round. of our redraft league.

You know, you think maybe Detroit or not Detroit, Chicago, because, you know, Johnson. But then you think he likes the committee backfields, you know, and so I, and they have Swift, they have Rocheon. And then the offensive line, we're hoping, but we don't quite know yet. And are they going to add some, well, obviously, if they took Gen C, they wouldn't be able to add a Campbell or an MBO.Bow. So I'm going to say either Vegas, just because of the. the golf there and the opportunity, you know, where he would become the,

the Trayvion and Judkins push into one for Chip Kelly in that offense and get the usage of both of them, or else Dallas, you know, they have the history of taking the running back high and turning them into the immediate belcow. I would point at those two. How about your running back two in this class? This is one where there's, it's gravitoring towards Omari and Hampton. for a lot of fantasy analysts, but there's still some people that want to flag plant their guy, maybe push up a Trayvion Henderson.

I know in the past you've talked about Caleb Johnson, some people on Quinchon Judkins there. Where are you at for the RB2 overall in this class? Yeah, so like, for me it's like Gentie and then, you know, you have the drop. And then this, this tier for me would be three guys. And it's Hampton, Caleb Johnson and Trayvion. and I right I it's one of those where like you know I swap them around all the time so like you know I put out a ranking but then you know next day I was swapping them around so I'm right now I have Hampton two Caleb three Trebeon four but yeah I mean like final answers aren't locked in until I turn in that 500 board but for me Hampton and Caleb Johnson is way closer way way closer than the public you know or the consensus boards or that sort of a thing. Hampton, you know, and there's elements of their game that are similar. Obviously, they're bigger backs, and they both have the high end speed.

Hampton has better acceleration, you know, which is why his 40 times was better, but the max speed is very close between those guys. As a receiver is extremely similar. They both just do the checkdowns, screens, and swings, but they're both very effective because they're berserkers when you get them the ball in space. So that, you know, that's what they do with that. but Caleb Johnson is the pure zone runner. That's the guy that I wanted on the Vikings.

I think probably the Jordan Mason trade nixes that out. I'm starting to hear some whispers about the 49ers. Maybe you took that low ball off. Maybe you're sniffing around. Mr. Caleb Johnson will end up seeing on that. He would be a perfect fit there. But yeah, just a really, really, really good zone back. And a guy who mitigates that lack of acceleration by manipulating the second level

defenders on the stretch zone concepts. You know, the thing of you're picking the gap before me. You know, that was, that was what Levianne was so good at. Foster was so, Aaron Foster was so good at, guys who overcame a lack of speed with that or a lack of acceleration, right? Because then you get your runaway when you've got your free gap, right? And now, all of a sudden, you're at full speed. And Caleb Johnson's max speed is a tick over 22 miles per hour.

That is flying, especially for that size back, but he had the seven percentile 10 yards split. But yeah, both those two guys. And then Trayvion right now, at least today, I just, you know, right behind them dudes. But then I'd have another drop after those three. Well, why don't you finish out your top 10? Keep it going for your rankings. Yeah, five. I have, I have Judkins. I know her friend, D. Bro is a little bit lower on Junkins. Some people are higher on Junkins. I have him at five. I feel like the way I see Junkins, he's just so natural as a pure runner. I don't want him on the field. I'm passing downs, though. Like, and it's not because I, like, I categorically don't think he could receive.

I don't think he's a great pass blocker. I don't want him out there for that for sure. But, like, you know, some people are like, oh, you could work with him as, just don't. Like, you're going to give him all the touches as the runner. Do what Ohio State did. And you have the Trevion mix and match guy with him. But I, I love Quintan as the peer runner. All the coaches that have coached him, they all fawn over the vision. The vision and feel is, it's just really, really good with that guy. and he proved that he had the athletic profile as well at a good size, better athlete than we thought the acceleration is the athletic quality that we would

always point to. So between the vision and then the clean feet and then that acceleration, and then he can snap the arm tackles. I mean, that's why he's just, you know, so good in there as the peer runner. Six, I have Devon Neal. I don't want to, I don't want to sound like Rex Ryan here, but I fetishize great feet in a big package. and Devin Neal being 220 pounds with just incredible feet.

And he's going to be a really good receiver at the next level as well. So that's, I like his game, the aforementioned DJ Giddens, who played one hour down the road from Mr. Neal in college is number seven. I have RJ Harvey at eight, big fan of his game. Damien Martinez and nine sensing a theme, another big back with great feet. And then number 10, another berserker with good feet in Cam Scataboo. Yeah, and I'll say for me, it's, it's Genty at one, O'Marion Hampton at two. Three, four, for me, flip a coin with the Ohio State guys.

I'm a little bit higher on Judkins than you, a little bit more thinking he could have three-down ability. And I got to give a call to Debrough if he's a little bit further down on him. But I'll say Judkins and Henderson, three, four, Caleb Johnson at five, he's becoming the value. We've done a lot of these rookie mock drafts. I'm able to get Caleb Johnson lower than I did before the combine because a couple of guys tested well. Johnson's a guy where I think I'll have a lot of dynasty exposure to. RJ Harvey at six, basal tutin at seven, DJ Giddens at eight, Damian Martinez at nine, and Ollie Gordon at 10. Give us a sleeper running back.

Give us a running back. And I know I love what you do this in context where, you know, you're able to say sleeper day two, day three. Take it any way you want on this one. Yeah, with day two, Devin Neal, I think, because he's going to go in probably the, you know, if you were to project right now, it's probably the latter half of round three. And I think you're getting a long-term starter there. I, you know, so that's, I would probably toss out him. Tutin as well, you know, depending on the kind of back you're looking for, but that, that just incredible athlete, the no gas or all gas, no brakes, kind of an athlete. but the day three sleepers taj brooks i'm a big fan of of taj brooks and he's going to get

washed out by by just the amount of bodies and he's going to go later than he showed if taj brooks have been in last year's class probably looking at a round three pick in this class he's going to be five or six right like and yeah one of these guys where we're like they're there in no way he followed the seven there's going to be one or two guys like that i don't think it'll be but it could be i mean it could be there's these guys that we talk about ubiquitously, someone is going to get pushed through the end of this thing, just because there's so many bodies to go around. But Todd Brooks, I really like his game. And I also think he is underrated for dynasty and fantasy, not because I think he's going to be like every down

guy, but because I think he'll be a 1A, 1B, sort of a committee guy. I think that's what he eventually settles into. And he is going to be on the field for passing downs for his team. because he's an incredible pass blocker, and he's also an extremely reliable receiver. He's going to get what is there for him. He ain't going to drop the ball. He's going to be exactly where he says he's going to be, right? Like, you know, whether that's the checkdown concept or whether it's just the timing concept on them swings and screens.

So you have that. And then I like, you know, the agility and the power at that size. You know, again, going back to the, you know, my favorite trade are the running backs, but he's really good between the tackle because of that. And so I think it's a guy who's going to. catch a lot of balls in the NFL. And I think it's a guy who's going to score touchdowns in the NFL because I think you're going to be the goal I'm back. I'm a big fan of Marcus Yarns from Delaware as a receiving back. And now he's he's Marcus Yarns is very small, right? He's,

he's, he's, yeah, shade under 511. He's 193. But that's a guy who potentially could play receiver. He, he lined up there all the time for Delaware. They, they love shifting them out, you know, to the slot into the boundary and he is really difficult to stay. It's a matchup thing, right? Deployed out of the backfield, the routes as well. You get him isolated on an outside lineback or you get him isolated on slow footed, strong safety. It's not fair.

And we saw him just singeing people in Mobile at the senior ball in those one-on-ones is, like I said, just unfair. He's not going to do any running between the tackles for you. But this is a modern NFL kind of a guy. The guy I couldn't help myself. I convented to Trunk candidate, a guy who from back in the day where if Trunk candidate come out these days, I think he has a better NFL career. You know, we're getting away from the slobber knockers and that, you know,

more the size. And, you know, the game just keeps moving more to speed. And so that's Marcus Yarns, a guy that I think fits really well with that. So that would be another guy to toss up as far as that goes. Yeah, it's really fun to Galaxy Brain, these former NFL guys in today's, context. You do it in the NBA as well with all the maybe the big men who lack the physicality to really be successful in the 1990s. Could they be successful now? It's the same thing with some of these really, really fast guys, these guys you can get out in space. I made a C.J. Spiller,

Bachel Tootin comparison the other day. And I was like, C.J. Spiller in today's NFL, that 16 point per game season could have happened like three, four times. So that's a really, really fun one. Let's take a quick break. We come back. We're talking. about the wide receivers. Welcome back, Theo Graminger with Fantasy Points or Fantasy Football Daily, joined today by Thorneistern of Fantasy Life. Thor, we've seen a rookie wide receiver, at least one of them, this past year we had too, finished as a top six PPR scorer in four out of the last five seasons. It's been a continual trend now where we're seeing this rookie wide receiver production that helps us in redraft, certainly helps us in Dynasty. And the only year that we didn't have,

one, Garrett Wilson was still offensive rookie of the year. If there is a rookie wide receiver in this class to finish top six in PPR scoring, finish as a strong wide receiver one, which player is it, and on which NFL landing spot? I'm going to say no. But if there was, you know, it might be, it might be Ted McMillan with the Raiders. The Raiders badly need the boundary receiver. They need to compliment to Bowers. And if they don't go with Genty, and of course, now they have,

they have a good quarterback play, right? I mean, which is the issue in the past. But, Gino, he's gonna, if you turn McMillan into his D.K. Metcalfe or whatever, like, I mean, it's just what they need. And because Bowers has established himself as a, you know,

as what he is, you have to roll coverage resources to him, which downfield would help a guy. like McMillan. So that, you know, in terms of best landing spots, you know, probably I would toss that up. But yeah, I don't see the, you know, again, we, the receiving class just being down. And it's just the other end of the cyclical thing. We get to have fun with the running backs this year.

But the receiver is not so much. McMillan would be the one guy where possible if it's, if it's the perfect landing spot, perfect situation. But, yeah, yeah, that's what I'd say. is is tet macbillan a really really good wide receiver two or is he a NFL wide receiver one in your eyes like in a perfect world you're an NFL GM are you going to battle with him as the one or are you more comfortable with him in like a t higgins type role and a marie marie cooper uh at points in his career type role where are you at with with tet in terms of just your comfort level of him as a prospect i think higgins is is the one to evoke there right like in and higgins like, you know, that, you know, very similar, you know, when he would coming out of Clemson as far as the evaluation and things that he got nitpicked on. And, and playing across from a guy like Jamar Chase, you don't have to have the fully flesh out game, you know. And some of those, the nitpicks were probably unfair.

But he, T. Higgins got to do T. Higgins things. And I think you're, you're stretching Ted McMillan if it's, if you don't have other good option with him. you probably aren't going to be a legitimate contender at that point. You know, the Raiders are an example where, you know, you know, like he would have to be a wide receiver one right away and you're going to get pounded with targets or whatever. But like ideally for McMillan's game, you're going to put him into more of the advantageous spots that, you know,

to do McMillan things if he is your wide receiver two, if you have a guy on the other boundary that's doing everything for you. So my current wide receiver three in this class, Matthew Golden, had a unbelievable combine, ran the 42940. I know there's been a lot of talk about that. Not a guy that we thought would run a 429, but it was a profile that we liked heading in. Brett Whitefield also high on Matthew Golden. Your thoughts on Matthew Golden, is this sort of the cheat code player that could exceed expectations and deliver for us in fantasy football? your thoughts on him and his potential NFL impact.

I'm a fan of Matthew Golden. Matthew Golden, he's one of the only guys in this class where we can say definitively, because he's proven it, he can win at all three levels of the field deployed out of either the slot or the boundary. Right. And how many guys can you say that about it? McMillan would be one, I suppose, because McMillan, he played a quarter of his snaps in the slot in college. But there's not a ton. But Mr. Golden is one of them.

And he gets nitpick because, you know, the box score scouts, you know, it's always stats. And he was in the G5 for two years. So, but there's context there. And of course, the box score scouts, they always, they always miss the context. And the context with his target share over his career was that, you know, it was a three-year career. He went to Houston. He was a four-star recruit. He had decommitted from TCU prior to that.

And there was, you know, a bunch of powerful schools were going after him. But he go to Houston. And as a freshman, he took out. was their number one receiver and he got pounded with targets. And then the next season, as a sophomore, Golden, he got injured in the middle of the season and it wrecked the rest of his season. They had bad quarterback play as well. They're the offensive coordinator of Shannon Dawson. He had left from Miami as well. So you had these various factors going against him. And then he transfers to Texas in the off season. But they had made IJ. Abahn their priority. And at the

beginning of the season, IJ. Abon was the primary receiver. You also had a quarterback there that was struggling to throw deep last year in Quinn Ewers. And again, Golden, he went downfield. So he was not the first option initially in the season and they weren't doing some of the Matthew Golden things to leverage what he was best at. But yeah, as the season went along, it became clear that he was the best receiver on the team. He easily led the team in catches and receiving yards for the wide receivers. Quinn Ewers was checked down Charlie most of the year. That's why the two running backs there had a million catches and why, Gunner Helm had a million catches, but Golden, you know, was the one receiver that they could super duper rely on.

So that's it for me, you know, like the, I don't, this stuff people say about his size, don't care. Same way I didn't care about Zay Flowers his size because he beat people off the line and then all three levels, including deep at Boston College. I seen it over and over again, seen him do it against NFL corners, seen the same thing with Golden. And then like I said, the analytics folks that, uh, the stuff with the target share in this sort of a thing. There's context for that. This is a really good athlete. It can switch interchangeably between the boundary and the slot.

That can help you with your matchups if you have a really smart offensive coordinator. And he's reliable. And we now know that he is very fast as well. Yeah. And we get a little, it's easier to be excited about a 195 pound player when he runs a 4299, isn't it, Thor? It's so like, yeah, it's a little chef's kiss too on this. We're not elevating him because of the speed.

It's a guy we liked before. he ran the 42940. So Brett's on him. Thor likes him. I like him. We're team Matthew Golden. Scott Barrett. I don't know. We got to get Scott's opinion on on Matthew Golden. I'm sure that that's a player that Brett and Scott are going to cover in film versus analytics. Make sure you listen to those. You can get those on the School of Scott podcast feed. I also recorded an episode with Mike Schope on the school of Scott. And Scott and I are going to be back next week. Make sure you subscribe to that feed as well. Luther Burden. This is a player where he's polar.

He's all over the community right now. I like him more than Brett does, and I think that doesn't take a whole lot. I like him more than Debrough does. That doesn't take a whole lot. Burden's polarizing, and the guy goes out and he measures it at six feet. He runs a 4-440 at the combine.

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See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Not with him, but it's contextual, which is, if I'm drafting Luther Burton, he ain't going further than eight yards downfield on most plays, right? He's Percy Harvin. It's the manufactured touch around the line of scrimmage, but he's incredible with the ball on his hands. But yeah, as far as a route runner, and I went back, I watched all the, you know, I watched a kid live, you know, he's a five star. He went to Missouri or whatever, and he was playing right away. So we've seen him the last three years. But I went back into the cut-ups just trying to understand,

especially what happened last year. And what happened the first and the last year, his first and third year was the passing offense stunk. That's pretty much it. Both those years, Missouri threw for less than 3,000 yards as a team, total. It was the middle season, the sophomore season, when the offense was really, really good. And that's where Burden's numbers were elevated.

But, like, for what Burden's good at, he's upper, upper tier. again like a Percy Harvin type I you know that the manufacturer touch dudes uh last process I was uh I was the most anti Malachi Corley guy out there uh you know like generally I don't love these I didn't like Paris Campbell um Curtis Samuel turned out a little bit better than I thought but I was against him too but I uh you know Harvin and Burton they're just so special with the ball in their hands and you find the right situation for burden he's going to be good. The situation, like, what he's not, it's a wide receiver one, right? I mean, like last year on that Missouri team, they didn't have other stuff. And so you end up getting ganged up on. They have poor quarterback play to it once they had the injuries, stuff like that. But that's he is miscast, is that where he would be awesome in the NFL is if he finds

a situation where the team has two good boundary receivers, right? Because you are, especially can win down the field. because we will naturally have created the spacing for Luther Burden that he is going to destroy people in one-on-one coverage in. He's good against zone. Like every time, you know, it's funny on his film, every time a team did a drop zone every time. Luther Burden is running a four to five-yard hitch, turn around sitting down. Every time. It's like that quarterback looked right out.

You'd see that, you know, the lineback, they'd start to go back. And you said it right, all right, Luther knew right what to do. He turned around and there. And now we get the free opportunity to start running. but that on all the Missouri was just so creative with how they used him and then got him the ball because they knew how especially it was with the ball on the sand so they shift them all over the place that's that they loved to do and then they when uh the concepts where he would go further down the field it was always the thing where the thought had been put into to the design in advance to make sure he

was in one-on-one coverage on with basically on one side of the field to himself so they would do this against single high safety and they'd have the boundary receiver run a clear out the other way. And then you'd have Luther going down the sideline. You're going to yank the safety over that away. But, you know, you'd sort of delay it. So you'd have the dude running the clear out first and, you know, catch the eye candy for the safety. You yank them that way. They love to do the bunches as well with the diamonds, you know.

And so it'd be like the two guys in front and then Luther would be behind them. You know, they'd run or sometimes three. And then sometimes they'd spray those three guys down the field. and Luther would just sort of be trotting out and he'd do his little, then he'd turn his, do his little hitch, get it to be five yards down field and it's the same thing, you know, or sometimes they just have the envoy, it'd be the quick screen. But they also like to do the four wide receivers,

and then Luther would be the running back. You'd be the fifth wide receiver, you know, and they do that stuff too. But you do stuff like that for him. He doesn't have bad hands, you know, his drop rate, I believe it was 5% or so over his career. But again, on the low A dot, that's why I don't care as much. but down the field, his routes for whatever reason,

it's strange to watch him, but Missouri, they didn't trust him with it. And he's just not as snappy with it. He doesn't have a great understanding of it. That movement that he has with, you know, when he has the ball in his hands, you don't see as much of the cool stuff. When, you know, he's sort of rushing through the routes.

He doesn't toggle his tempo. I think what I wrote in my scouting report, I just kept wanting to see salesmanship. It's like, bro, tell the guy a story. you know what I mean like when you're out running the routes or whatever and there was one play that he did it against Boston College and I was like yes where you know it was another concept they got him one on one on one side of the field but it was a dude that was playing down on him and Luther pretended he was going to do a speed out because he had done that before and boy did

the guy fall hook line and sinker and bit down on Luther's like bye bye you know it was just a free lollipop you know is the easiest you know 40 or touchdown pass you'll ever see or But yeah, that's, again, you're only sending him downfield on that stuff. You're not getting any nuance from him. That was, you know, one of the few examples that I even saw legitimate salesmanship out of him on a route. But again, with the ball in his hands, he's so special. So he gets in the situation I was thinking about before was this isn't going to happen

anymore because this team just signed Rondale Moore. The team plays a mile from me. But if they hadn't signed Rondale more, Rondale more would now become superfluous if you had burdens, the same skill side. Burden's just better. but in that scenario you have Jefferson on the one side which is the greatest situation that a guy like burden could be in or rondo more sure his agent was like bro sign with sign with them there's there you're gonna you have oceans of space every single every single time you line up next to Jefferson but you know Addison as well and then Hawkinson right and so the the amount of spacing that that that opens up for you Luther going to break a tackle right like the acceleration and then the speed and then you know the other thing that would it reminds me of Percy is when he hits that Noss button, when he got the ball, you all of a sudden, it's not like a, you wouldn't think of him as like strong,

like weight room or, you know, like traditionally strong. But when he hits that thing and he's going forward, all of a sudden, off angle attempts from defensive backs or arm tagging, he's just going to bounce off and keep running, right? Like, I mean, you're going to have to get him flush and it has to be a good tackle attempt. Are you going to break it? Right.

And that's why Missouri so often try to get him into these scenarios where it's Luther and one dude on one side of the field. Whether I mentioned the down the field stuff before, but the other concepts get like that one where he's in the behind the diamond and you're spraying people at the other side because they can only keep one dude on that side of the field. So it's like if Luther breaks that one, we'll get him the ball five year downfield,

clear out that entire side of the field. You got one guy, you got one tackle to break. We might get an explosive play here. That's what you do with him. But a team like that, the Cardinals would be another good example of this. Yeah, Cardinals would be a great landing spot for him. that would be a really, really fun one. He's one that will continue to look into.

Thor, we got to wrap this up soon. Let's go lightning round. Give us a wide receiver that you are flag planting that could be a sleeper for a day two guy, a day three guy, whatever way you want to take it. With that I'll go, I don't know. Not a sleeper for this audience, but a guy that maybe people are not necessarily as high on that you have confidence in. Jaden Higgins, the guy who's going to go on day two that's going to be underdrafted.

I think Jaden Higgins should be talked about and, you know, amongst the top five receivers in the class. I'm very, very high on Jaden Higgins, and he's going to go in round two. So, you know, I'll shout him out. But a couple of other ones that I'm probably higher on than consensus, two G5 guys. I really, really like Jalen Royals. And I also really like Tori Horton. Tori Horton seems like he's falling down or, you know, maybe people forget about him, but you get pushed down a little bit. but I'm a big fan of both of those guys.

I think they're going to provide value. Royals has a shot at round two, I would think. You're going to go in round three if not. And then Horton, Horton shouldn't get out of day two, but we'll have to see. But yeah, those are two guys that I think are going to provide value in this coming out of this poor receiving class. Assuming your top two tight ends are Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland,

who is the tight end three for you in this class? that has the highest fantasy football upside? Man, in terms of fantasy, I'm going to defer off my draft rankings because this guy, I have at five in my tight-end rankings, but if it was fantasy, I'd probably have him three is Arroyo because Arroyo is such a good receiver. And he beats you down the field and he beats you in the red zone. And so I think that's a guy who is going to pile up the touchdowns. There was some inconsistencies at Miami.

he had the injuries earlier in his career and then the targets Ward loved throwing to Restrepo and I think he missed the Royo some I think he could have used the Royalo more last year. I also think if you didn't have Restrepo, he would have cleared out the slot for Arroyo to be doing Arroyo things all the time. And that's what in the NFL, he ought to be a big slot. I wouldn't be messing around with him in line. He's a receiver, right? He's a big receiver, big slot.

So I would say probably him for fantasy. My tight end three is Mason Taylor. And then I have Ferguson four like on my draft rankings. But I love Taylor in the intermediate. He's really, really good with that stuff. He's just so reliable. His outbreaking, the cuts at the route break, you know, the timing with it and then the efficiency of the forward.

But I think Arroyo is going to pile up more stats than him. Arroyo is my tight end three. Brett's all over him as well. Big time fantasy football potential. but I think all three of those guys you mentioned are all going to be round two guys. It's a class that the NFL is going to value. We'll end the show on this one. Your Shadur Sanders NFL comparison is and should fantasy managers be getting excited about him?

Drew Breeze and I love Shadir Sanders. He might be one in the class. You know, with that comp, he better be. He better be. Yeah, like I just, the accuracy in the placement is just, just, just about as good as it gets there. And to me, he gets, you know, I see some of these other things people say about him. I don't, I don't get it. Like, you know, the thing of the lack of pocket presence, it's like, do you know the offensive line he was playing behind the last two years?

And do you realize that he did not have a running game with him? You know, it's like, yeah, I know he got to play Travis Hunter and, you know, I mean, Shepard is fine and Horn is fine and weaver the year before. But the defense is that, they could just pin their ears back with the pass rush and come after him. So like he had to not only did he have to be poised with immediate pressure, which he is, he also has the functional mobility in the pocket to make people miss an extend place. He's really, really good at that.

So I just, I really, really like his game. And I think for the modern NFL, it's a guy who's just a continued chain mover. He takes care of the ball and he can put the ball wherever he wants to. So it's just a dichotomy that I love. you can trust him. It's like even Stephen, right? Yeah, he's going to put your playmakers in really good positions. The reason, and it's not like I have a huge golf between him and Cam Ward.

At the end of the day, on my big board, they might be a spot apart or two spots apart. But Cam Ward, it's more you get the explosive plays, the peaks, but then you get the valleys of the turnovers and where I'm different than other folks is, I do not believe that he can cut down the turnover. rate without an accompanying drop in the explosive play rate. I believe in my viewing and my understanding of Cam Ward, one goes with the other, right? So it's Brett Farv.

Brett Farv, you got all the explosive plays. But if you were like Brett, you can't, we don't want you doing that gunsling or stuff. We want you to try to take care of the ball more. Sure, he would have thrown less interceptions. The explosive plays go down in conjunction with it. So with Cam Ward, you're going to have to live with both. and some people, they would prefer that.

He said my flavor would be with Shadir. But, but yeah, that's how I see Camor. My QB2 in the class, Shadurr Sanders. This has certainly not been a show where Brett and I have shared a lot of these other people's opinions of really fading him. It's kind of jump the shark here. Shruder's going to end up becoming a value for us in fantasy football if this continues. Thor, we could do this all day long. You were awesome today.

Let everybody know where they could find your work. You can find me on Twitter. at Thor KU, and you can find all my NFL draft stuff at Matthew Barry's fantasy life. We just dropped my top 25 receivers today. So there's scouting reports on those guys. I comp every single one of them. I got to get my 500 comps ready. So we're working every day on that.

But my top 25 receivers, you can check out those come. 26, actually, technically, because we also dropped the Travis Hunter's scouting report in there. And I don't like rank them with them. But, you know, because he just a unicorn off on his own. But yeah, that stuff. And then obviously working up to drop. in that big board. We got a mock draft coming next week. Tight-end rankings coming next week.

So check us out of Fantasy Life. And Theo, always great talking to you. Thanks for having me on, brother. You as well. Make sure everybody, remember Brett Whitefield's prospect guide dropping on fantasy points. Check out my most recent episode of School of Scott with my guest, Mike Shope of WGR and ADP chasing. We talked about early ADP values, sort of trying to identify those for our redraft listeners

out there. We cover a lot of topics. And then Scott Barrett's going to be back on School of Scott. We're going to be joined by Abib Agbatoba next week. Scott and I just drafted a $350 FFPC contest. Hopefully we took down a million bucks store. And if we did, drinks are in us next time we see you. Stick with you.

I'm going to hold you to that. Hey, listen, as many as you want if we hit that million. And stick with us here at fantasy points all throughout the NFL draft and post-NFL draft. We're going to give you everything you need to crush your fantasy leagues, your dynasty leagues, your best ball leagues. Any format you play, fantasy points is your spot to win. We'll see you soon.