Fantasy Football Daily - Jonathan Mingo, Zach Evans, Keeanu Benton with Ian Cummings | On the Clock! NFL Draft Podcast

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) and Ian Cummings (@IC_Draft) of Pro Football Network discuss Tennessee WR Cedric Tillman, Wisconsin DL Keeanu Benton, and two Ole Miss offensive players, WR Jonathan Mingo and RB Zach Evans. Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoint.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. We are back with another episode of On the Clock. I am your host, Brett Whitefield. And today we are joined by Ian Cummings of Pro Football Network. Ian, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Brett.

It's good. I remember we met at the Senior Bowl a couple years ago. It feels like it forever ago. But it's always good to connect and talk draft, man. It's a fun draft class to talk about. Heck yeah, man. I'm very happy to have you. For those that don't know who Ian is,

I would say, Ian, don't be mad at me for saying this. But I would say you're probably one of the, you're like the bright, shining young star in the draft. community. How can people find you on Twitter, actually? Let's do that now.

Yeah, yeah. So you give me too much credit, man. It's just I see underscore draft on Twitter. It was Ian underscore Cummings underscore 9, but I was like, that's a little too much. I can barely remember that. So, you know, I got to streamline a little bit. So it's a I see underscore draft on Twitter. I see underscore draft on Twitter.

You will not regret following him. His content is awesome. Pretty much all your work is free, right? Yeah. I mean, that's even better. So you honestly, you're probably not going to find better free content than what Ian's putting out over there for the draft. I mean, it's honestly incredible. So good stuff, man.

Very happy to have you. Yeah, when we met in Mobile last year, was it last year or two years ago? I don't remember. It might have been too, man. Every trip blends together. You know, that's kind of interesting. going back down there but it was one or two years ago i do know that yeah i don't remember who introduced us but i remember just chopping it up with you for a minute and you like within five minutes

you kind of blew me away and was like wow that's that's a dude to know for sure going forward so yeah thank you so much for joining the show so typical format here ian is we do a a player you're higher on the most player you're lower on than most and then a team player fit that you kind of want to pound the table for so without further ado Let's get into this. Cedric Tillman, wide receiver Tennessee volunteers. You're telling me you're higher on this guy the most,

and I like it. So hit me with it. Yeah, he's a top three receiver for me. I mean, he's up there. He's up there, I'm a big fan of this dude.

I like him better than Jalen Hyatt. And like, you know, whenever I say something like that, like I never want to use one prospect to, you know, belittle another, right?

Like they all have talent. They all got rules, so they're going to fulfill it the next row. at level, you know, they all got that. But I think looking at Tillman, you know, if you're projecting, you know, what you're looking for a wide receiver, a complete skill set, I always like to put them through what I call the three level framework, you know, before the catch, can you separate at the catch point? Can you maximize those opportunities? And then after the catch, can you create, you know, can you kind of extend plays from there? And I think Cedric Tillman fulfills that

pretty well, you know, I think better than he gets credit for, you know, around 6'4-2-15, so he's got the size for sure he's got a good length but then you look at him athletically whenever you're looking at a size guy like that at athleticism and then ease of separation those are going to be things that you want to confirm on tape and i think tillman you know he's actually he gets i think he deserves more credit there i think um you know he ran a four five four the combine i think he had around a 37 38 inch vertical over 10 foot broad so it checks out you know in the testing numbers but then on tape too you can see he's very good at you know exploding out of breaks You know, he can stack guys with that long speed.

You know, his speed is more 60 yards speed than 40 yards speed. But once he gets by, you know, he can threaten vertically. And then one thing that really sold me is that he's an alpha at the catch point. He's physical. He's very authoritative. He's really natural contorting and extending to the ball. But then at the same time, he's a very nuanced route runner. You know, and I think that's one thing that you don't always get with a big guy like him.

You know, usually they win on their size sometimes. But with Cedric Tillman, you know, when he's running routes and Tennessee offense doesn't really provide a ton of great opportunities to do that in a vacuum, right? Jalen Hyatt's a good example. You know, a lot of stack releases, a lot of times where he's really just kind of being aided off the snap by the alignment and using his speed to get through. But with Cedric Tillman, you can see he's throttling up in his stems. He's chopping his feet. He can really retract his stride suddenly. He can use throttle control and he can sing his hips and he can, you know, kind of deceive defensive backs with the,

throttle manipulations and you know just stuff like that uh some reps against clay wringo georgia corner who's probably going to be a first round pick we're very eye-opening with tillman where he's you know using throttle manipulation to you know kind of create separation and sustain separation through breaks uh using physical using physicality and targeted swipes to compound separation and stems you know really the full package right so injuries could be a concern you know he struggled to stay healthy in 2022. He had a bit of a late breakout. So I know, you know, analytic profiles won't be as kind to him. And that's something that you need to take into account. But for me personally, you know, I, I hesitate to knock a guy completely for that because every developmental track is different. You know,

as much as you want, you know, analytical numbers and they do matter. You know, you got to look at the tape and see if it checks out. And for me, I'm willing to bank on Cedric Tillman in spite of that because he's got, he's really, he checks most, if not all the boxes that I'm looking for. Yeah, man, one thing I really like about Tim and 2 is you talked about that Vertical Rout running ability and the in the late separation and stuff like that But he's got the ball skills to finish those plays, man, that's Yeah, that's you know huge for me. I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of there's a few throws hand and hooker on tape would overthrow him You know time and time again, you know, and he's like he's not a super inaccurate quarterback, but there are times where he will loft it high a little bit because he's got that concave release and that

push it up sometimes. And you'll see, you know, Tillman, right when he comes out of his break, he can adjust very quickly. You know, you see it's not just the ease of making the play, like you said, but the response time too. Like, he can so quickly get his hands up there and the coordination is on point. He's very good at converting there. Yeah, for sure. Another thing that's really interesting to me about Tillman, man, is you were seeing this with Free Agency right now, and even in this draft class specifically, like there is a legit scarcity of X receivers available. and it's actually startling. We've talked about a lot on this pod in general,

and I hate to keep bringing up the same point, but it needs to be hammered home with guys like Tillman who I think, you know, I'm not willing to go to three on my board, but I do think he's going to go higher than people realize because not every team in the NFL is in the market for a 5, 970 pound slot receiver. It's just facts, man.

So like I think Tillman is going to kind of be naturally elevated because of that as well. So I do like that about him. I mean, shoot, if you need an X receiver, like if I don't even know where you get one right now. I mean, like, yeah, DJ Chark is probably your only option for agency. And then you're looking at Quinton Johnson, who's probably not even best served as his X right away. Yeah, as much as I love the upside of Johnson, like he is very much a projection, right? Like you're not sure what you're going to get from him. I think with with Tillman, my thought process was he, well, he's got the size. Now, does he have other stuff to go with it and he does right you know some guys they just win on that but he's got the separation

ability he's got the contested catch ability he's got some juice after the catch too where he's he can turn through tackles so you know so i want to ask you about that actually because from a number standpoint i think out of my top 25 receivers that i've scored tillman has the lowest yards after catch average but not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater here i do think a lot of that is the nature of his vertical tree that he runs. He's catching, you know, balls downfield on the boundary, like, quite a bit. So there's not necessarily an opportunity for yak, but you do think the yak skills are there despite the low production on after the catch.

Yeah, I do. And I think, like, I'm not going to say he's the best yak receiver in the draft, right? But, like, I think, you know, four, six, three, two, 15 pound guy, you know, he does provide it, right? You know, usually, usually when you're looking at yak guy, you know, they're a little denser, right? It's maybe like six foot over 200, right? Like a little small or a little bit more compact. You know, those six, three, two, 15, like they can do it.

They're not usually specializing in it. So it's one of those things where you kind of, you know, you take a case by case. I don't think he's dominant at it. I think he was a little better in 2021, 2021. He was dealing with the ankle injury for most of the year. He was rarely 100%. And I think that hurt him at times. But when he's, you know, when he does have chances in open field, like you said,

kind of stylistically, he doesn't always get it because a lot of times it's either a route breaking back to the ball and he's making the catch and getting hit pretty quickly afterward, right? Or, you know, he's just converting at the catch point, you know, over the top. So I think, you know, stylistically, it wasn't something that really came to him a ton, but when he did, he showed flashes. I love it, man. Good stuff. So real quick, before we move on to the guy your lower run, do you have anyone else you're higher on that you'd like to throw at me? Anyone else that I'm higher on? Let me pull up my big board here. Yeah, than most. You know, because I do, I like highlighting these players a lot, because there's such a

this one thing that's cool about the draft community it's one of the lesser I don't know vacuums I guess like some spaces on Twitter especially in NFL circles like everyone kind of has like this

consistent thought process on just about everybody there's no you know there's no difference of opinions in a lot of regards so draft is a cool aspect for people to discuss some differences they have so I definitely like to highlight guys you're higher on than most

Yeah, I'll stick with wide receiver because that's always a fun position to go through. But Jonathan Mingo from Ole Miss is another one. Another potential ex-receiver at the NFL level. Yep, for sure. Around 6-1, 226, I think. I mean, that's size that you don't see off. And that's size that you look at you. Like, that's an Ole Miss receiver, right?

Because, you know, they had AJ Brown. You know, they've had some other guys. Ontario Drummond. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, you look at that mold and it's like that's what we've come to expect. And I think he's one of the better guys to come out from that school in recent years. I think that, you know, he's, when I watch this tape, man, I was like, like, you know, obviously you look at the, the contested catch ability.

You know, it's there with him too. He's very instinctive when it comes to positioning himself, making adjustments. But he's explosive. I mean, more explosive than your average receiver. I mean, it shows up when he's, you know, expanding after the catch. Like, he accelerates incredibly quickly in open field. It's effortless for him. And I think that showed up in the combine testing.

I think he had a 39 and a half inch vertical, I want to say. say, you know, which at that size, man, that's not something you shrug at. So he's, he's got that burst. He's got effortless burst, which you can use to displace an open field. He's got great speed downfield. And then, of course, the frame really translates to yak, you know, ability, you know, the ability to churn through tackles and kind of bounce off guys. He's got some of the best contact balance in this class at wide receiver, which is something I really love, you know, because if you want to get guys opportunities in the open field, right, that's something that can really help you out. He's got the

contact balance to break tackles, and he is explosive once he has open field. He can just get downfield just like that. So huge fan of Mingo. He's one of my favorites. Josh Downs from North Carolina is another one. You mentioned the player molds, you know, a lot of 510, 170 guys in his class. That's him, right? But I think stylistically for what he is, he's one of the best at it. You know, I like him a little more than Zay Flowers and Jordan Addison because I think Downs is a little bit more efficient as a route runner. I think he's the most efficient route runner, the most methodical when it comes that you know using throttle control you know and kind of using variances with his strides to to get guys offset but i also think he's the most consistent converting beyond his frame i mean you know

as a catcher yeah yeah for sure i mean like looking at this guy you know you wouldn't expect a 510 170 pound receiver to convert like he does i mean he's very natural when it comes to extending you know using his hands to secure passes away from his frame the timing the coordination uh it's really impressive so i'm a big fan of him too nice one quick note on Mingo, his rack is unbelievable. It is crazy. And I hate using the term poor man's this because it sounds disrespectful to the player you're talking about.

But he truly does remind me of like a lesser version of A.J. Brown. I see I wrote it up. And it's stupid because it's the same school comp. But I mean, I see a lot of similarities there. And then as far as Downs goes, man, that's, you mentioned the size. Like he doesn't play that small. I actually posted on Twitter probably a month ago. I cut up a video of just ridiculous Josh Downs catches.

And all of them are, he just completely sells out for the football the matter what the scenario is. Like if he knows he's going to take a beating, he doesn't matter. If he's got to fully extend while sprinting and dive like Superman across the field, like he's totally cool with that too. He will lay it all on the line to catch the football. I think there was a catch in 2021 where he was doing that exactly.

thing sprinting full speed in the corner of the end zone and he had to lay out for something and he did it you know he's like you'd expect a guy with his size which i mean on you know on the highlight really he does have those those passes where he'll take it underneath and create you know but he's just as good at really extending beyond his frame working beyond his frame and and converting when he needs to so agreed all right let's get to a guy you are lower on than most we're going to go with Zach Evans Ole Miss running back I agree with this

so I'm very curious to see if your thoughts match mine yeah you're sticking with Ole Miss here and I want to preface with this you know right I think as an evaluator it's really important to stay outcome independent right so I'll never I'll never pick a guy

and say like oh I'm I'm dying on this hill this guy's gonna be a bus like no you don't do that like you know because every every prospect is different every outcome is different right you know you never will want to act like, you know, you know what's going to happen because we don't. I think Zach Evans, there's a very realistic possibility where he goes to the NFL and he's a great player, right?

You know, I just, I just think, especially in this running back class, I think that's the key. I mean, this is a very strong RB class. So the margin for error is small. And I was ranking my guys top 10 and I'm like, man, I like all these guys in the top 10. And I like a couple guys outside of it, too. It's just like, it's the tough part of it. When there's a deep class like this, you can't always, you know, get room for everybody.

But Zach Evans, you know, I think I'll start with the pros because I do think there are some pros in his game for sure. Very talented athlete, special athlete. I mean, he's explosive. That shows up. I think one thing that really stood out to me as a special trait for him is that once he gets to the second level, you know, he's explosive, right? So he gears up quickly. But he can he can adjust his attack angles with that, you know, that ankle flexion, that flexibility while keeping his speed. And that's really impressive.

if he can bend around guys and make defenders, you know, make their attack path wrong, you know, make them wrong as they're in pursuit and use that explosiveness to get upfield and kind of pressure different angles. That lower body flexibility with that explosiveness is something that I really like about his game. And I think that, you know, especially in a wide zone, you know, get him space to work with, he can make something happen with that. I think that's a really good opportunity for him.

Unfortunately, I think the profile isn't quite as complete as other running. backs and I think, you know, at the NFL combine, we saw a little bit of that to keep weight in at like 511, 201, so a hot lighter than expected, which is still pretty compact, right? But it's not like, you know, you want more mass, you know, if you're billing this guy as someone who can, you know, break tackles consistently, which I think you did show that a little bit on tape, but not a guy at like 215 who's going to do it consistently at the NFL level. And I think that combined with, you know, not a super complete receiving profile either. You know, there's flashes of him being able to convert after the catch, you know, create as a receiver,

you know, work out of the backfield, but he's not nearly as consistent or versatile or multifaceted as other guys in the class. And I don't think he's a great pass blocker either right now. So I think, you know, when you're projecting to the NFL, you know, a lot of what gets guys opportunity is not just the running ability, but being able to convert and contribute on passing downs to. And Zach Evans, as a runner, the vision is another potential area of concern for me. I don't think he's terrible there.

I don't think he's a liability. But there are instances where he'll have a cutback lane that's open and he'll defer to congestion. Right. So I think, you know, it's one thing where, you know, if you're not a super complete runner, I need you to have great vision to counteract that. You know, and I do think he's explosive, right? But does he use it efficiently right now? Not always.

I think, you know, we saw a little bit of it with Quinn Sean Judkins. taking the starting role pretty early from Evans. We thought that transferring the Ole Miss would get him the guy role, right? And he didn't quite get that. That was more a byproduct. But you look at the tape and, you know, he's explosive. He's a great athlete. But the profile just isn't quite as complete as I'd want for a guy in day two.

You know, I would take him really day three. And I know there's been whispers of potential character concerns, right? I don't deal with that because I don't know the guy, right? You know, I would never want delve into the territory that, you know, I just don't know about, right? but on the tape, not quite as complete as I would like for a day two guy. I think there's definitely a role for him, but in this Army class,

there's other guys I prefer. Yeah, Ian, it was almost like you were like reading my write-up on him, which isn't even most yet, so I know you weren't. But yeah, I mean,

you were basically sympathico on this. The biggest concern for me was the vision, because it's like, you know, he played in a predominantly inside zone scheme there. and he just deferred to the easy cut almost every single time, didn't hit a lot of cutback lanes. And what's crazy is he has the lateral quickness to do so.

That's what was so frustrating. It's like he could easily bend runs back and he just chose not to so many times. And then for a guy whose his whole game is burst and acceleration at that size, I need you to be able to do more in the past game and he just doesn't have it. So like you said,

I think there is a role for him that the burst is a very attractive trait, his ability to accelerate. Like you said, bend in kind of, I think I wrote up that he destroys attack angles was an exact line that I used in my scouting report. That's a great way to put it because he'll enter space and there's a safety coming at him at a totally linear angle and he'll make you wrong. He'll make you have to flatten and by the time you do flatten, it's too late. He's past you.

So definitely in a role where you can get space for him, you know. But yeah, like you said, I mean, he's got the lateral agility to do it. it's frustrating sometimes because he'll show it, but it just doesn't quite act on that information quickly enough. I mean, you could watch him and be John Robinson back to back, and the difference would be, you know, unmistakable. Yes. All right, cool.

So we're going to get into some team player fits really quick. But before we do, we have a word from our sponsor, underdog fantasy football. The 2022 NFL season is over, but the fantasy football season never stops at underdog fantasy. The easiest place to play fantasy football. Right now, you can draft an underdog. the Big Board tournament with $1 million in total prizes

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If you sign up using code, fantasy PTS at underdog, you get a fantasy point standard subscription for just five bucks. That's underdog fantasy promo code, fantasy PTS. And remember, new underdog users who sign up with our code get a fantasy point subscription for just five bucks. All right. Sorry about that. Ian, I had to pay the bill real quick, you know. you're good you good i did it all right so cool so let's do this uh i kind of i'll leave it up to you give me a team player fit you want to pound the table four it's tough man because there's

there's quite a few that are on my mind man but um i'll stick with the quarterbacks i'll give i'll give two quick ones um but the first one is cj stroud i think to the panthers right now that's kind of the easy one right i mean number one overall pick come on take something off the radar right you know trying to be unique here but it's just i I just really like the fit, man. I mean, doing research on Frank Reich's offense. I mean, every offense is very versatile dynamic. I mean, you're never going to find, you know, one-to-one for anything.

But I think Frank Reich in particular, you know, employs a lot of triangle reads, which, you know, work in the middle of the field, using eye manipulation, anticipation, you know, right? There's reps from 2021, where he'll have his shoulders in one spot, his feet, and another, because he already knows where he's going. He's just trying to get you to go to one spot, right? So I think having that foresight to manipulate the field, right, it's one thing to, you know, see the right thing, but act on what you're seeing in real time and kind of anticipate, you know, can keep things in control. CJ Stroud is one quarterback that's very good at that.

And then on top of that, the accuracy, the ball placement, some of the strongest traits. I think he fits the right mold, you know, around 6-3, over 2-10. So I think, you know, looking at his size and just his play style, you know, I think especially with Carolina, they've got an offensive line that's really, you know, kind of coming into its own. You know, Ike McQuanu, Taylor Matan, they've got Austin Corbett, who they got Frasen together. They just brought back Bradley Bozeman too. So, you know, C.J. Stroud, one of the biggest knocks on him is that he's not super natural as a creator right now. I do think he has the athleticism to grow within that role. But I think if you're going to, you know, if you want him to start right away, you want him to be adequately supported.

That goes for any rookie quarterback, but especially for Stroud. And he's got the offensive line. You've got to get more weapons after trading DJ Moore. But I really like the offensive system and how it fits Stroud. I think that's a great fit for him. Anthony Richardson of the Colts is another early one that I like. You know, I think Shane Steichen proved with Jalen Hertz that he knows how to mold an offense around a player's raw strengths.

And if anyone has, you know, the raw talent in this class, it's Richardson. So that's another fun one for me. personally I don't know how the top of the draft is going to play out with the QBs and where the fits are but you know I would love Stroud to go to Carolina I think that would be a great fit for him and seeing Stuyche and work with Richardson that would be fun those are a couple to come to mind for me yeah I like I like what you said in both instances the Richardson to Colts fit makes in a perfect sense honestly I've been saying kind of on my other pod recently that I think Carolina should probably take Richardson because I personally think I like the high floor you're going to get with a guy like Richardson with his running ability.

Yeah. But Stroud probably makes the most sense for Frank Reich. Even just recent history suggests, you know, with what Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz, and Matt Ryan, like Stroud is a souped up version of those three guys. So, you know, as far as his arm goes. So yeah, I really do like that fit. Anything on the defensive side of the ball you'd like to pile the table for? Yeah, I think, well, the Eagles just lost Javonne Hargrave.

He signed with the 49ers. One guy that I would really like for the Eagles is Keanu Benton, I think, looking at his style. He played nose a lot at Wisconsin. I think he can play one tech in the NFL. Maybe better is a disruptive three tech, two I, maybe four I, you know, maybe four I, you know, moving around within that range. But he's a fun one. He's over 6'3, I think around 310. He's a violent rusher.

I mean, this one thing that stands out on film is that he's got. really a violent disposition. He's got a great arm over move. He's very quick with his hands and forceful. And he's got good, you know, linear explosiveness and power capacity. And, you know, I just love that disruptive element. I think that the Eagles especially, they're going to need to recoup value on the defensive line at edge and defensive tackle. And looking at the style of defensive linemen that they like, right? These are guys that, you know, are compact. They got pretty good proportional length. But you got power. You got torque. You got strength. You've got, you know, multiple down utility with run defense. Keanu Benton is one of the

best stack and shed guys in this class in the CT class. I mean, he's so good at, you know, fully extending, locking me out, getting off his man and clogging the lane. And then as a pass rusher, he's got a working arsenal. He can still be a little more consistent with that, but he's got the tools to do it. So I think as that multi, that multi-phase disruptor, you know, with that who's dense, you know, well-leveraged, you know, I think violent, you know, Keanu Benton checks a lot of the boxes for me for the Eagles. Love that. I've actually seen a couple people comparing Benton to Fletcher Cox actually. So that is interesting indeed. Where do you have Benton on your board, if you don't mind me asking? Yeah, so he's, let me check here. I think he's around day two

range. Like I said, I think I think he can still be a little more refined with his hand usage. And I also think laterally he's not super free as an athlete. He's got some lateral ability, but he can be a little stiff in the hip sometimes. So that just kind of weighed him down a little bit for me. But he's up there. He's in that day two range. There's a few defensive tackles that I'm a little higher on. So, you know, he won't be in my top five, right?

I really, really like a couple guys. Zach Pickens from South Carolina and Morrow Adjomo from Texas. Those are both, those are two of my guys who are, you know, in my top 75. Those are really fun players for me. But Benton isn't quite at their level, but he is in the day two range. I would consider taking him in round three. And if he took him in round two, I wouldn't complain because ultimately he's got enough tools. He's got enough athleticism, and he's very willing to dish out physicality on the field.

So it's a fun DT class, man. There's a lot of different player molds, a lot of different types. And I think guys are going to be disruptive. But he's day two for me. Yeah, I have a day two grade on him as well. He's currently sitting at like 81 on my board. but I don't know if you feel the same way as I do, but this class is like,

I feel like once you get out of the first round grades, it's the next group of guys is like 50 players deep. It's kind of crazy. I don't think there's a ton of tears, but it's a very deep draft without a lot of blue chip talent. It's kind of hard to explain, but I mean, I think there's still a lot to be had on day two,

pretty much all the way through day two. I think you're going to get a good player. Yeah, for sure. That's where the money's going to be made in this year. Yep. All right. Dude, thank you so much for joining. We're going to cut it here.

But very awesome. Have you? We got to have you back. Maybe have you on my other podcast as well. For those listening, Ian Cummings, Pro Football Network. You can find them at Twitter at IC underscore draft. Ian, thank you so much for joining us. Yes, sir.

Thanks for us. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points Podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform. And come join the roster at FantasyPoints.com.