Fantasy Football Daily - Kendre Miller, Roschon Johnson, Josh Downs, Darnell Washington with Ray Garvin | On the Clock! NFL Draft Podcast

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

It's a new week of On the Clock!, and Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) kicks it off with a killer guest. Ray Garvin (@RayGQue) of @DestinationDevy and @TheDraftNetwork is here to talk four skill-position players: TCU RB Kendre Miller, Texas RB Roschon Johnson, UNC WR Josh Downs, and Georgia TE Darnell Washington. BRETT WHITEFIELD'S 2023 NFL DRAFT PROSPECT GUIDE IS FREE TO READ WITH A NO-CHARGE LOGIN AT FANTASY POINTS. Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoint.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Welcome in to another episode of On the Clock. I'm your host, Brett Whitefield. And today we are joined by Ray GQ of Destination Devi and the Draft Network. Ray, welcome to the show.

Brett, my man, appreciate you for getting me on. It's been a scheduling conflict, but we made it happen, and I'm excited to talk to you about some players in this class, man. Heck yeah, man. Very excited to have you. You and I always seem to have fantastic conversations about prospects. I love chopping it up with you, and we haven't really talked much since the Senior Bowl week.

We got to hang out a little bit down there. But yeah, so cool to have. Two years in a row, man. We got to spend two senior bowl in 2022. and then this well for the 2022 class in this year. So as you said, man, you're such a sharp NFL draft mind. And I know the amount of work that you put into scouting these prospects. So anytime I get an opportunity to talk with you, I really appreciate it, man.

I enjoy it. So it should be a good one. Heck yeah, man. Feeling is mutual. All right. So as you know the format of the show, we're going to talk a guy you're higher on than most, a guy you're lower on than most. And then we're going to have you pound the table for a team player fit.

let's start it off with TCU running back Kendra Miller. Ray, you're telling me you're higher on this guy than consensus. I like it and I'm interested to hear what you have to say, man. Hit me. Yeah, Kendra is a player, man. I truly believe that if you're just talking talent, skill set, the whole body in which a running back is viewed, I think he's a top seven talent in this class.

And I can even, if I really want to get aggressive, I could say I believe he's a top five talent at the position in this class. At 5 foot 11, 215 pounds, you know, he got the backfield to himself this fall. And he split carries last year with Zach Evans. And there have been some reports and some talk that Kendrae Miller is a big reason why Zach Evans decided to take his talents to Ole Miss because it was not going to be the Zach Evans show in 2022. But when you're talking about this running back in particular, he's one of the

youngest running backs in this class. He's not even 21 years old. He'll take his first NFL snap right around, right at 21 years old. I think it would be like 21.2 during his first NFL game. And as the primary ball carrier for TCU this year, what I really appreciate about Kenrae is to be, you know, 215 pounds. He's a powerful black. He sort of does everything. He's, he plays with physicality. I think he's got some of the best feet in this class. And to be about 215 pounds, TCU had him listed at 220. He has break. away speed. He can run. If he gets in the open field, they're very rarely, have I seen Kendra Miller caught or

broken down by defensive backs taking an angle on pursuit with him? We didn't get to see a lot of his past catching ability, but you've got to understand. We didn't get to see a ton from Quentin Johnston either because the quarterback, if first or second read wasn't there, and it's just different. The college game, unless that's a part of the offense, quarterbacks aren't really checking down to the running back in that facet. But when I look at his size, his ability to be, in today's NFL, there's no really such thing as a true three-down back. I mean, a lot of teams are deploying committees. And I actually think that's smart the way the NFL is trending. But this is

a type of cat that can be on the field on first and second down. And if he needed to be on the field in third down situations, whether that's as a protector for the quarterback and pass pro or a receiver dump-offs, some simple routes. I wouldn't categorize him, Brett, as a pass-catching weapon. I always talk about the differences. There's a difference between a running back that can catch passes and be deployed as a pass-catching weapon. I don't think that's Kendrae, but I do believe he can catch passes.

He is competent in that game. I like his physicality, and he showed that with a full workload, he could be a dynamic running back. So for me, he's one of the players that I do not see mocked inside of round two or round three at all. And a big part of that is he hasn't done anything this offseason. He hurt his knee in the Michigan game in the college football playoff. He tried to get back on the field for the Natty.

Wasn't going to happen for him. And quite frankly, I'm pretty happy that he didn't try to do anything at the combine or pro day that could hurt his stock. But this is the type of cat that if any NFL team drafts him on day three, early day three is where I've got him projected. I think you've got you a nice little sleeper running back stash for whatever NFL franchise he lands on. Yeah, for sure.

What you said about the past game stuff. I mean, Ray, there's probably what, five, six power five programs that actually throw to the running backs. So you go through the list of every guy in this class. And if you're listing strengths and weaknesses, lack of past game production is there for most of them, to be quite frank. So I'm not really going to hold that against Kendra too much. I wish we got more reps of him in pass pro.

We just didn't. But what you see in both regards is a guy who's willing. He is willing to throw a hit. He's got good size. like he'll come up and bite you if you're a linebacker coming on a blitz. I mean, he's not scared of that. You see natural hands catching the ball. Like you said, I think he's a guy who can be part of the checkdown game, part of the screen game.

Probably not what you would call a weapon. Fully agree with you there. But for Kendrae, man, what I love about him is when I'm scouting players, I have basically nine traits I scout for running back. Three of them I call premium traits. And it's vision, burst, and ability to create beyond your blockers. And Kendrae does all of those three things. So I'm naturally going to like him because of that.

The past game stuff is really the only concern. What do you think about playing in TCU? He had this crazy yards per carry. When you put on the tape, you don't see him against stacked boxes a lot. You know, never see seven, eight man boxes because the way TCU spreads you out. Do you see that as a negative or are people way overreacting to that? Because I've seen that held against him all the time. Yeah, I think that's overreacting.

I mean, ultimately, I'm with you. when I scout and grade these guys. Vision burst, those are two of the qualities that I look for more than anything. If you can see hole and you've got the explosiveness to hit hole, you've got a chance in the NFL, right? Now, what separates the truly elite, great running backs from just the replaceable guys are some of the other things. Can you make people miss in the open field? How good are you in the receiving game? But ultimately, like bottom line threshold, you must see hole and you have to have the ability to

hit the hole and burst through and attack the second level and you look at his advanced metrics across the board, they're green, they're good. And you hit on a, you hit on a very important point with Kendrae and know the technique isn't there for pass pro, but there's a willingness. And there's some running backs that you see that have no interest in attacking a downhill linebacker. And those are the ones you have to worry about, right? Those, the Khalil Herbert's of the world that have no desire to get in there and get dirty, Kendra does. And if you have the willingness,

an NFL team and a running backs coach will be able to work with you because here's the thing. Brett, I worked in college's collegiate athletics for over five years, man. They spend little to no time on pass pro in college because you've got limited hours, NCAA rules.

They are not spending a ton of time on that. That's five minutes of individual period at the end of practice or at the beginning of practice. They're not focusing on. that he's got to want to. Yeah, that's a great point and something that probably needs to be shouted from the rooftops, right?

Because a lot of these guys are coming in very raw as past protectors. And depending on the quarterback you're playing with, there's like, you know, Brady was notorious for this. If you couldn't pass protect for him, you weren't getting on the field. I mean, that's why Rashad White didn't really break out until the end of the year last year. He just couldn't protect Brady the way Brady would want him to. Some QBs care less about that, but, Kendra is not coming in any more raw than other running backs in that regard.

So I don't think this is a big issue at all. So you mentioned early day three, our team's getting a value if they get him there. How early are you willing to draft him if you were calling the shots? The problem is, if I'm being realistic, as much as I like him, this running back class is so deep, Brett, that I think we're going to see names that we like. and guys that we think can play, go in round five of the NFL draft, where if they were in last year's class,

they may have been early, fourth, late day two picks in the third round. So I would feel comfortable with, and I'll just throw it out there, like my Dallas Cowboys, who need another running back, I'd be fine with them using a fourth round pick on a player like Kendra Miller.

Awesome. Cool. Let's pivot to a guy you're lower on than most, and we're going to talk about Texas running back not be jean Roshan I always give this this little disclaimer

before we do this segment right because inevitably what happens is you say you're lower on a guy and people get mad oh you hate this player you want to see him fail no none of that listen we're just giving you

the honest evaluation of what we think we don't have any ill will against any player so just wanted to throw that disclaimer out there for people it's sometimes they get sensitive when you talk about guys

you're lower on their most or critique them so anyways take it away Rochon Johnson, what are you seeing here that's giving you a little pause? And let me preface this by saying, I have him graded on film, just film grade, nothing else but the tape. I have him as RB 9, just based on the tape. And a lot of things that I like about Rochon's game are things that most fans don't, they're not really thinking about, right? When I look at Rochon Johnson, I don't see this dynamic, get to the NFL, change life at the position type running back forward.

a franchise. What I do see is the type of player that I believe all 32 teams in the NFL would like because I call Rochon Johnson and this is this is a term of endearment even though it sounds bad. He's like the garbage man. He does everything that all the other running backs have no interest doing. Go turn on the game this past year versus Iowa State and it's teach tape in how to pass protect for a running back. Roshan Johnson's going to be, he's a capable running back. He is competent in passing situations. He's in phenomenal, phenomenal third down back as far as past protection is concerned.

And he also offers special teams versatility. So when I look at all these dirty things, right, special teams, pass pro, kick returner, all these other things that you don't, when we're talking about Bejohn Robinson, and nobody cares a lick if he's on kick return or special teams or pass pro. Turn around, get Bejohn the ball by any means necessary. I think Rochon Johnson is a quality back that all teams would love to have, but the upside at the position, I just, I'm having a very difficult time seeing him become a, you know, one of these running backs we look at and say that's a premium player

at the position, at least as far as toting the rock and carry him, the ball. But I do think he is just, he's a fantastic football player and everything that I've heard about him is he's kind of got that Jamal Williams leadership quality as well. He's a former quarterback. So that doesn't shock me at all to be a natural leader. He's got great size, good, peripheral metrics. I'm just not seeing a dynamic running back. I'm seeing a good quality back, but I'm seeing some people have him as high as RB3 in the class. Just not for me. Can't do it. Right on. I think you made a ton of good point. Roycein strikes me as a guy who in the right fit, you know, if he landed with maybe like an Atlanta or a Tennessee, I think he could hit a higher ceiling.

But for most teams, he's going to be part of a committee. What do you think about a couple? I'm going to throw a couple names at you that he reminds me of just stylistically, not ceiling floor. You already mentioned Jamal Williams. How about the guy that the lines replaced Jamal Williams with David Montgomery? Do you see that at all? I think Monty was a little better running back, like a runner of the football, than Roshan Johnson.

Yeah, that's fair. He is probably a little bit better in the open field, too, making guys miss. But the lack of top end juice is similar. They don't shy away from contact at all. And Monty's a phenomenal pass protector as well. Yeah. So those qualities stand out to me. And then I also was thinking, like, he reminds me of where I kind of viewed Brian

Robinson last year. Ryan Robinson. Yeah. He's this year's B-Rob where he's kind of just a do-it-all guy. You probably don't want him to be your one, or at least if he's a one, he's probably like a 1-A and a 1-B situation, you know?

But yeah, I think he has a lot of qualities to his game that are attractive, but I do agree that he's pretty limited. I feel it's, and I know you follow the Detroit very closely, he feels like a Jamal Williams. I watched Jamal Williams, and he's a good running back,

but I don't see special when I see Jamal, but Jamal does a lot of little things that maybe a D'Andre Swift wouldn't do, right? Maybe that some other running back that may have more talent in their body won't do. I feel that's Roshan. And watching him at the senior ball, just how he carried himself, you can tell this young man is a professional. You can tell he's mature. And you can tell, quite frankly, he was a former quarterback.

Like he really carries himself with this business-like mentality, which I think all, again, all 32 teams would probably want to have a player like Rochon Johnson, but I don't think Rochon Johnson holds off a better talent from that team drafting another running back the next year. That's a great way of stating it. Yeah, I like that. All right, let's move on to another guy. You're a little bit lower on than most. And it is pretty marginal.

But we haven't talked about this guy on my pot at all yet, so I really wanted to bring him up. and that's North Carolina wide receiver Josh Downs. I am definitely lower on him than consensus. So when you said that you kind of were too, I thought this was very interesting. And let's discuss him. Yeah, Josh Downs. Let's start with the positives.

I do think he's a crafty route runner. I love the way he works and stems and leverages defensive backs. I think he's quick. I think he's got good hands. I think he's a quality receiver. I think Josh Downs is a good receiver. I'm seeing some people say first round, late first, go to the Vikings, maybe Dallas drafts. I would not want to do that.

I do think unlike, and it has nothing to do with height, but for me, when I watch him and Zay Flowers play football, I look at the way that Zay Flowers was deployed at Boston College, and you can watch it, I believe 65% of his routes were non-slot routes for Zay Flowers last year. I mean, they're lining them up all over the place. It's never gimmicky. I think Josh Downs is, I like him, Brett, but I'm not in love with him. I'm not seeing a first round wide receiver. I am seeing, and I know this is, this term is taboo today and people shun it, but I think he's

a slot only guy. I think he's a slot-dependent receiver. and that's not a bad thing depending on the situation you land in. But when I'm grading these receivers, I don't want to say I like him if he lands in one of three spots. I want to be like, this dude, I don't care if he lands in Seattle, Cincinnati, Dallas, or Chicago. He's got an opportunity to be a guy. And I'm just, I think situation and landing spot is going to be paramount for him. And I can also see a world where, you know, a lot of people are excited about him.

And he's relegated to special teams for a majority of his rookie year, of like Skymore. There was a lot of hype and enthusiasm around Skymore last year. And it just, you know, he didn't get on the field. He couldn't get integrated in that offense. And a lot of people thought he was more talented than Juju or MVS. I just, I like Downs. I'm not seeing first round. I would not spend a top 32 pick on them. And for fantasy purposes, you know, there are quite a few other receivers that I'd prefer over Josh Downs. Yeah. The slot stuff is, you don't want to say it's concerning because he does the slot stuff well. But when you're projecting, like his production profile is a little bit fraudulent, Ray, especially a lot of these deep catches he had.

Because what ends up happening at the college game? So many defenses play quarters or too high in general. And so you get a guy like Downs in the slot. He's going to blow past the second level linebacker or slot corner who's just carrying him up a little bit. And then inevitably what happens is he gets one-on-one with that safety, who's tracking number two. And you get Josh Downs on a two-way go post or corner, and he is going to destroy that safety every single time. We've seen this cheat code multiple times.

The last couple, 2-2 Atwell did this. Wondell Robinson made a living off of it. I see Downs following the same footsteps. It's very hard to project that production to the next level because the reality is he's not going to be getting those one-on-one looks against safeties often. It's just facts. And even still, the safeties in the NFL are so much better.

that it's not going to have the same effect that he had in college. So that's my biggest concern with him as well. It's like, you know, is he a legit deep threat from the slot in the NFL? I just don't know. I think he's probably more of a, you know, run after catch type threat, you know, win the short and intermediate parts of the field kind of guy. I do love his ability to sell out his body to make plays, though, right? He's got a litany of just ridiculous catches where he is completely laying out for the ball

or knowingly taking hits. Well, and Brett, that's as much as I love it, you watch the tape and it feels like every game he's limping off at some point with something, right? You're just like, where'd he go? Then he comes back in and then just nagging just issues, right? Little, and I'm not calling him injuries, but he gets hurt every game. Comes back in, but it gets hurt. And that's been kind of the Josh Down story. And you have to wonder, Brett, does playing with that type of reckless abandonment for your body is that a detriment?

While I love those catches, why I love the way that he's fearless on punt returns, literally every game, it sure is the sunrises, Josh Downs is going to limp to the sideline for some period of time, right? I'm not saying he's out for the game, but it's just a little concerning. Death taxes and Josh Downs limping off the field. Those are the consistent things in life. Yeah, I agree. Where do you see him or where are you comfortable with a team taking him in the draft? I kind of have like a late second on him right now.

Yeah, I still think he's a top 64 pick, top, you know, top 75 player, no doubt. I think early, if you really need that element in your offense, maybe middle of the second round, but you better have a plan for him. And I would hope that, like, I wouldn't want him in Minnesota operating as the two to Justin Jefferson. I think he needs to go somewhere. let's just let's just let's just do this for the sake of of illustration Cincinnati with chas and higgins on the outside and you put josh downs in the slot there that'd probably be pretty nasty you've got an you've got an accurate efficient quarterback

in joe burrow you're not asking him to be the one or even the two and let him be isolated in single coverage versus a nickel or sometimes a bigger safety i think he would thrive in that type of role yeah i love that fit all right let's pivot to you're going to pound the table for a team player fit. You have Georgia tight end Darnell Washington to Cincinnati. We're back on Cincinnati, right? Hit me with this. Obviously, they need a tight end.

That's not a secret. Why Darnell Washington versus some of the other guys? And what do you see in Washington's game that you love? Well, I think it's the versatility that he brings that offense in particular. Joe Burroughs, he's not the type of quarterback that's going to live through the side end, right? We know, like with Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes, everything runs through Kelsey, Baltimore, everything runs through Mark Andrews. There were points in time for even the Dallas Cowboys, Dalton Shultz, looked like he was Dak Prescott's number one target. I don't think that would

ever be the case for any tight end in Cincinnati. And why I think Washington over a musgrave, who I view as much more of a receiving weapon, is because of what darnow Washington brings to the table as a run blocker and as a pass blocker. I mean, he is truly a sixth offensive lineman out there that has freakish size and athleticism that can just be a dominant red zone weapon for a team. I'm not, when I view Darnow Washington, I don't ever think he's going to be the type of tight end

that commands 120 targets. That's just not his game. I don't think he's going to get 100 targets, Brett. But could this be a tight end that winds up with 10 plus touchdown? seasons? Absolutely. Just because he's so big, he's such a big figure and a big target security blanket for an offense. And when you have weapons like Higgins and Chase consistently drawing top coverage to them, he would be isolated single coverage versus a safety. He's going to be bigger

than most. He's fast enough to get on top of safeties really quickly. And I think when you listen to interviews from players at the combine talk about them, they all talked about how much faster he was in person and how quickly he got on top of the toes of defensive backs. What's he going to do? What's an outside linebacker going to do with Washington? It probably, you just put it up. I mean, is wingspan one of the longest ever in NFL history for the tight-in position? You put him in on offense like that where he does not need to be the focal point, and I'm going to ask you to protect our quarterback. You're going to run your however many snaps per game and you're going to be a red zone monster. I think that would be a

prime fit in Cincinnati, whose number one priority needs to be keeping Joe Burrow upright because they're a team that I believe they're trending down the Kansas City Chiefs, the way that they build their team, where they just need a running back to keep defensive on, defense is honest. Joe Burrow wants to throw the ball. They want to light it up. I think he would be a fantastic addition to that team. Love that. The bit about getting on safeties quickly, it's, it's evident in tape.

when you put on the tape, I mean, he didn't have a ton of catches, but he works the seam so well. And he almost catches safeties by surprise, but they're like, whoa, whoa, what is that? How did he get here so fast? And I think it's just his long strides. I mean, he's six, seven with long legs. I think he just, he's a long strider.

You know, he's not the best lateral quickness guy. He's not going to turn and run routes for you. But that's not really what you need them for, as you pointed out. So the run stuff, too, the outside zone scheme, they like to run there in Cincinnati, he would be so good as a playside blocker there. Yes. Just unbelievable value in that regard. And honestly, were they picking 29, I don't think that's too early for Washington.

Do you? No, I don't think so because he does provide you some offensive weaponry as well, right? He's not, listen, Brett, he's not going to be the top target, not going to be a private. And there may be some games where Washington's stat line is, you know, 2 for 11. That's what he's got. the impact that he had on that team and for that offense, it will be things that can't be accounted for in the stat line. And you kind of saw that a lot at Georgia. And even with Brock Bowers, who's going to be the top tight-in prospect next year for most, at least going into it, he still found,

they still found ways to integrate him into the offense, give him some opportunities. And I'll be honest with you, Brett, I was a little shocked by how well he performed at the combine. I was very skeptical because I watched him and he felt kind of lumbering to me. And maybe that's because he's such a long strider and it doesn't look like he's accelerating quickly. But just looking at his body frame and his composition, I mean, he's built more like a receiver than he is a lineman. I know somebody, oh, he can play O'Line. I'm like, I don't know if he's got the girth to do that. But man, he looks like a receiver. And then he goes out there and he posts the type of short shuttle that did? I'm like, how, where

did this come from, right? And much like we talked about passing to running backs in college, Brett, how many college offenses actually funnel their offense through a tight end? Very few. They have another excellent tight end as well. So

he was never going to be the primary target there. About the testing stuff, Ray, I have pretty good sources in at Georgia who have told me he played closer to 280. And then he combined at 264. So I do wonder, if coming in a little lighter helped him on that short shuttle. If he's going to play

at 264 though, if he can keep that weight there, he's going to be a much better receiving threat than I think people think he is. Well, let me tell you something about that too. And it's something that you can never quantify, but you know it and I know it. If he was playing at 280 and then he dropped 16 pounds

for the combine, he worked his ass off to do that. And if you understand, because there are some people, Kishon Bouté, cough, cough, is the biggest job interview of your life and you don't show up ready to go you show up for the biggest job interview of your life and you have not put in the work it tells if he was 280 and he comes in at 264 and he tests like that that shows me that that young man wants to be good and i can work with that i can work with that heck yeah i dig it all right ray that is going to do it let's tell the people

where they can find you at twitter you are ray gq and the cue is spelled out it's not just cue right Not, man, it's not just Q. It's QUE, QUE, Ray GQ on Twitter. You can find me on YouTube, Destination Devi. Got the wake-up morning show Monday and Wednesdays 8 a.m. Eastern Standard Time and just doing a bunch of stuff all over the place, man. Just having a good time out here. Heck yeah. Thank you so much for joining the show, Ray. All right. Thank you for having me. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform.

and come join the roster at fantasy points.com.