Fantasy Football Daily - MVP Talk, Wild Injuries, and MORE! | NFL First Read

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down the MVP talk, injuries and MORE. Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Check out The Waiver Wire - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/the-waiver-wire-week-5#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First read. We are your first read the film and analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of lockdown and myself Brett Whitefield the CEO of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the fantasy points data suite. Let's get after it. Marino. We're heading into week eight. We just finished week seven. I just want to say one thing. Jared Goff is the league MVP. Oh, Oh, Jared Goff is the league MVP. He's in the midst, Joe of, and sorry that I skip the pleasantries here. I just wanted to get right into this because it's passionate about this. Bros had 140 plus pass rating in three straight games.

He's the only player in NFL history to complete 80% of his passes and post the passer rating of 140 plus in each of his last four games. He's posted at least two TD passes, a 72% completion rating. rating and 110 passer rating. He's on one of the most historic stretches of freaking quarterback play we've ever seen. And I think the tape is even better than the numbers, man. Because I think the statistics on volume aren't great necessarily, right? Like he's got a couple like 18 completion games in there. But when you watch the tape and you see what he's navigating, see how he always gets the team into the right play.

and he's just so reliable from a decision-making standpoint. It's kind of remarkable, dude. He's fifth an EPA per drop-by. I'm not an EPA guy, but I know a lot of the listeners are. I'm an EPA guy. Why don't you like EPA? It's a team stat. I hate when we extrapolate an EPA to a singular player.

I think it's ridiculous, especially for quarterbacks. Okay, so I will agree with you there. I pretty much never use EPA for individual players. I use them to measure rush offense, rush defense, past, you know, actual functions of a team. I never use them for individual players. So I would agree with you there. So all of the sweaty pocket protector nerd bros use it as an individual stat, and it drives me insane.

Yeah, I'd agree with you. It's a good team stat, but it's a bad individual stats. Yes, exactly. So the lions have the fifth EPA per dropback when Jared Goff's throwing the ball. That's the way I like to frame that. But yeah, it's been remarkable, Joe. What say you about Jared Goff? I think Jared Goff's 1 million percent in the MVP conversation.

And I think there's a strong case to be made that he is the leader in the clubhouse. And I think right now, and again, it's going into week eight, we just finished week seven. There's a lot of football left to be played. And we've seen players in this conversation at this point in time fizzle out, right? There's a lot that needs to play out. So I think Jared Goff 100 percent, arguably the leader in the clubhouse, I think Mr. Lamar, Jackson would like to have a word, and I think Josh Allen would like to have a word. I don't know that you can make a compelling case for any other player.

I think it's a three-horse race right now between golf, Jackson, and Allen. I'd probably say that golf and Jackson are ahead of Allen, but I think that's your mix as of right now. Yeah, man, I agree with you. And to be honest, I was way more confident with the way I was going to start the show until I watched Monday night last night. Every criticism I've had of Baltimore's offense is kind of slowly. Each week they've chipped away at it a little bit, a little bit more downfield passing, a little bit more intermediate middle type throws for Lamar, stuff we just hadn't seen him do the first three, four weeks, right? And so he's starting to do that stuff now.

And statistically, I think you brought this up on the phone to me yesterday. He's having his best season ever, which is crazy because he's already a two-time MVP award winner. So I agree with you. I think Lamar actually probably is the front runner right now. now. And then Josh and Jared are definitely knocking on the door. But it full, full agree. It is those three guys to me. I don't, I don't, I don't think Sam Donald's in the mix. Maybe if Jordan Love can clean the turnovers up, he finds himself in the mix down the stretch because the Packers are balling right now too. But that, that's probably it for me.

I don't have a stat on this, but I would guess that if you were to extrapolate as a percentage of throws, which ones, like what percentage of throw? are either touchdown passes or interceptions, Jordan Love's got to be the leader in the clubhouse there in terms of the highest percentage. It dudes like 17 of 22, three touchdowns, two interceptions. It's like, man, like you had 22 passing attempts and five of them were either a touchdown or an interception.

So it's a lot of things riding on on those results, not a lot of in between there with Jordan Love. If you go into the Fantasy Points Data Suite, Joe, go to the advanced passing table. You do have the option to download the CSV. there you could easily work those numbers out listeners you can go find out who leads the league and touchdowns plus interceptions rate so um yeah i would do that at his point data suite is the best for that that kind of stuff finding your own unique statistics i think that's cool

do you know what i found in the data suite like literally because you know i live in this thing uh all week long and i know that because i ask you like 40 questions a day um there's there's run there's run in pass rates. Yeah. Unlike every, every dot. I didn't know it was in there. I'm like, okay, what, like, what's the first down pass rates for teams? And then like, how is that influenced by game script and first have, I'm like, wow, this is in here too. Like, what isn't in there? I don't, I don't think, I don't think that answer exists. I keep finding things every day and I'm, I'm in it all the time. So Joe, I'm the one who, you know, design pretty much most of stuff

in there is from a, at least a idea perspective. And I still am surprised, by things we'd have. Wait, when did we throw this in here? That's sweet, you know? It's incredible. One last note on the golf led Lions offense. The last four weeks, they have 18 touchdowns and just 16 incompletions.

That's crazy. That is crazy. You know what prop I missed on last week? I had a great week of betting. The one that I missed on was the over for Jameson Williams. The guy has negative four. I thought for sure he was going to be a big part. of like we're going to take some shots down the field and soften up this Vikings defense with

the blitz and really make them pay and I'm like yeah I'm going to eat on this over and I had eaten on a few overs with Jameson earlier I was like brother you kid me negative four yards like you couldn't even make this interesting that's tough they the Amonrah touchdown if you go watch the all 22 of that Jamo also crushed his guy probably an actually an easier throw for golf than the Ammanra one but Ammanra was at the first read and he was out of open. So just like this podcast, if you're on the first week, you're getting the ball, you know. Incredible. Absolutely incredible, bright white field. Okay. We have been all over the place here to start the conversation. So we're going to kind of like bring it all together here as we

focus in on a lot of the nuggets that we've introduced here to start. And I think we should start with the Detroit Lions. And obviously, Jared Goff building this MVP resume as they now sit atop the NFC North, getting a big win over the Minnesota Vikings. They are both five and one, the lions and the Vikings, but of course the head to head to Detroit. I know that you have a million things to say about this game. my prevailing thought is it shouldn't have been this close, where you had the David Montgomery fumble, so the Vikings get a defensive touchdown. That was the big one.

You have the failed fake punt, right? I think these are contributing factors. This is a game that I felt like Detroit was in control of it. It winds up being close and certainly they get their game winning field goal. And I wonder if you think that they should have been a little bit more deliberate about getting the ball a little closer for the F. field goal. Just run some regular run plays. No harm, right? They win the game. Yeah. But I think, I think Detroit is, is absolutely the favorites in the NFC.

And this feels like a statement win on the road, but also I think that you correctly forecasted the Vikings as frauds about two and a half weeks ago. Um, man, there's, words in your mouth there. I mean, I wouldn't call them frauds necessarily, but I definitely think they were out producing their, you know,

their talent level. It's startled especially. Then the, the, the floor is defense, the thing about it is if you have answers for blitz, you win. And a lot of teams just don't have answers for blitz, right?

But the lines do. They happen to have the best offensive line in football. They have, um, you know, Sam LaPorte on Amonraa St. Brown and Jemir Gibbs and my guys who are good blitz beaters. Like,

it's just, it's just what, how they're built. So I kind of expected this. And then you look at the historical data with Goff versus Flores. It's insane. Like he's absolutely annihilated him every time he's played him. And now we're in like a 20 game sample too where not only is Jared Goff the best quarterback in the league against the Blitz right now.

He's also the best quarterback in the league under pressure. And I bet you never once considered that because that's always been kind of his going back to L.A. That was the thing that messed him up. you get him under pressure and all of a sudden the wheels come off that his last year. That's basically what divorced him and Sean McVeigh, right? McVeigh couldn't trust him when that offensive line. And that was a bad offensive line when they were playing bad. Gough fell apart.

That's not been true the last 20 games or so. He has been absolutely unbelievable under pressure. Now, he obviously has a couple funny plays here and there where he gets sacked and looks like a baby deer going down. But like, you know, for the most part, he's spreaded pressure. So it's a great. That's a great picture you painted there. What do you is it just a matter of scheme and O line? Is that is that what you contribute the growth to? Because I mean, Sean McVeigh, known as a great offensive mind, had success with Jared Gough, made a calculated choice to move on. And golf has certainly been everything Detroit could have wanted him to be. What are you like what are you pointing to as the reasons for? kind of the glow up, even though it feels weird because he was good in L.A.

Yeah, I think, I mean, scheme and O-line are obviously a huge part. He had good skill plans in L.A., though, too. So let's not get ourselves there. It's probably somewhat on him, too, development a little bit, just like a coaching staff that trusts him.

He's in complete command, man. When I say things like, he gets him in the right play every snap, he's making the right read. Like, I'm not exaggerating, bro. It's ridiculous how surgical he is. It's and I know Terry Bradshaw was doing it at the end of the game. He was, he was comparing him to Tom Brady.

And I'm not not going that far, Joe, but you see that like from a play style standpoint, it's every bit like Tom Brady. Now, Tom Brady, you know, times a million as far as talent goes. But I mean, it's, it's unreal. Like, that's how he plays. Like, you couldn't beat Brady with blitz or with pressure.

Like, that's right. Yeah, I know all about it. It's happening. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I think a lot of that's on him. Like, I think he took the, separation in LA personally and he worked on his craft and got better.

You have a note here on our show sheet. Lions got conservative. Please, please expand on that because those are, that's not really three words that you would put together when you talk about Dan Campbell. Yeah, let's not escape this conversation before I want,

I want your thoughts on the fake point, but for the Lions got conservative thing, you mentioned it already. When they, that final drive, they go roaring down the field, there was still what a minute left or a little bit more than that they wanted to burn Minnesota's timeout so they took three knees to then kick like a 40 plus yard field goal

with Jake Bates now I'm not going to deny the fact that it's very possible Dan Campbell was playing 3D chess there and wanted to get wanted to break you know Jake Bates's uh proverbial cherry there pop that cherry with the high pressure kick he had never had one in the NFL I mean, shoot, the kids only kicked nine field goals in the NFL up until that point. So I think there's a chance Dan wanted to put him in that situation on purpose. But that was the first time I ever remember saying, wow, like that is a very conservative play to take three knees. Because get it closer. Just run the ball regular.

And also don't leave any, like go score a touchdown. End the game. That's always been their philosophy. End the game on offense, right? And so they kind of did. They got it down to 15 seconds. He makes the kick. If he misses that kick, though, man, that's, we're talking about something completely different today.

Oh, dude. Yeah. No, that's, that's, there's no question. Yeah, everything's in question that they didn't do more to get the ball closer and Dan Campbell is under scrutiny in a big way. But. And they were running the ball effectively too. That's the thing. Like, I'm not saying you got to throw three bombs at the end zone, but do give it to Jemir Gibbs three times.

See what happens. Right. He just needs a crease, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. my break one, then he's taking a knee on the one yard line instead of, you know, and then you're kicking a five-yard field call. Right. My thoughts on the fake punt, I don't like hindsight

analysis, right, because it's easy to say, well, it didn't work so it was the wrong decision. I sort of like the timing of it. First drive of the game, you're in a third and 26, you get to fourth and seven, you're at the 33. It seems like the right time to do it. It just may be felt unnecessary. Like I don't think that you needed to do anything like that to beat Minnesota. Like typically when you see fake punts or weird trick plays, it's because you're a lesser team and you need something to introduce some variance and like gain an edge.

Detroit didn't need to do that, right? So giving the risk of giving Minnesota a short field when I think that you were already the better team, don't give them any life. And so I think, I think in high. In hindsight, in hindsight, I obviously didn't work. And you two plays later, the Vikings score a touchdown. And so you're like, yeah, it was the wrong decision. I think the timing was okay.

But when you look at the bigger picture, I just didn't think it was a necessary part of what Detroit needed to have in their bag against Minnesota in this game. So that's probably the most salient point I've heard against it so far, is that you probably didn't need to do that to beat the Vikings, which obviously was sure they won, despite failing on that. right um yeah that's interesting i remember you so they did it against the chiefs in the season opener last year and that's more of what you're talking about it's like you're the underdog on the road in kansas

city championship night yeah you might need to steal a possession there so we're going to go ahead and fake that pun they got it and they won the game so yeah that that makes sense i here's the thing i'm never going to criticize them for being aggressive just like i just complained about them being conservative at the end of the game i know it's not apples to apples but i love the default aggressive mindset of Campbell. They have certain looks where it's automatic. They don't even have to check in with Dan. It's just like, hey, we put this is the, they basically have a punt, a fake punt install every week. And they have a huge playbook for these, by the way. They haven't run the same punt fake point yet. And they've got up, I think they've won like 11 of them and Dan Campbell's

career, which is insane. Um, but they have the install. And if the look is there, they just do it, man. And so like I don't, I don't have a problem with it. If you actually like watch the tape on that play, they were inches from hitting that thing. Like if germ has like a tenth of a second longer to pitch that ball and it was a speed option. Yeah. It's almost might be a touchdown dude. Like it was it was right there.

So they had the look they wanted. They just didn't execute. And then lastly, um, I when you look at the circumstances of the game that that first possession, they couldn't even snap the ball correctly. I think they had two false start penalties because the crowd was so. loud. That's the first away game they've played in a long time that was adversarial like that.

The Lions fans have been traveling very well and crowds have not been all up in their business. I think Dan was trying to get a hold of the crowd, take the crowd out of it. It's like you get that fake punt. Now all of a sudden we can go run an offensive set and not have to go to a silent count. They ended up having to go to a silent count anyways because they failed the punt and the crowd was insane the entire game. But I do get it from that standpoint. He wanted to break that crowd noise up. margins are slim, right, between a play being heroic and everyone questioning the decision.

All right, we are going to move on from the Lions and get into the other leading MVP candidate, the Ravens, Lamar Jackson here on the other side of it. Folks, be sure to stick with us. All right, Brett Whitefield, we had a Monday night football game, and it was the Bucks and the Ravens in Tampa Bay. and I think there's a lot to get into on both sides of this equation. The Bucks lose the game and they lose a lot more than just a game with the injury to Chris Godwin. And of course, we'll wait and see what's going on with Mike Evans. But let's start with the victorious side of this.

And that's the Baltimore Ravens, who, I mean, what was the final score? 41 to 31 probably wasn't that close. The quick 10 point deficit that they faced early. And then they just poured it on, man. They poured it on with downfield passing, big runs from Derek Henry. intercepting Baker Mayfield. This is my question for you with Baltimore. What do you make of this team?

Are they just an absolute wagon that's continuing to get better every single week and you think of them as the favorites in the AFC? Are you thinking it's week seven, probably not great that you're peaking right now. I'm concerned about how teams continue to adjust to you and what this looks like later in the season into the playoffs. or is this, hey, we've seen this story before. The Ravens get everyone's excitement going during the regular season, but we know that they're a shell of themselves in the postseason. Is all of that true?

Like, where do you find yourself on this Ravens team? Oh, man, it's eerily similar to last season, Joe. I think it was actually week seven, man, where they just absolutely beat the breaks off the Detroit Lions. And they were subsequently crowned as the eventual Super Bowl champions. and then, you know, to what you just said, they kind of peaked early. I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm just saying it's eerily similar.

I think they have some things working for them right now that they didn't have working at all last year. The passing game looks a lot better. It looks robust. I already mentioned the improvements they've made since like week two, week three. Defensively, though, Joe, this is where they've really made some improvement. So to start the year, their first round pick and Nate Wiggins wasn't playing. he was on the bench Marlon Humphrey was playing on the outside a majority of the game they were getting absolutely demolished in the middle of the field over I think going into last week they had given up

3 20 plus yard pass plays from the slot in every game of the season which is insane that's like that's really really bad they now have in the last two games marlin humphrey or maybe three games actually humphrey has kicked into the slot again and Nate wiggins is out on the field And that's been a difference maker for them. And no, they're still not awesome in coverage, but they're limiting those big plays because Humphrey obviously is a phenomenal player. So I think you're taking Isaiah Simmons out of a role he wasn't very good in. And you're allowing him to be more of that box safety kind of.

Brodian slip there. You said Isaiah Simmons. You met Kyle Hamilton. Oh, my gosh. Did I say Isaiah? You did. You did. Well, that tells you what you need to know about how I feel about Kyle Hamilton.

No, Kyle Hamilton. He was stuck playing in a role. He wasn't Graydon as a slot corner, nickel guy. Box safety, you know, chaos creator, someone you can get unique matchups with and roll some, you know, interesting coverages with. He's awesome in that role. And so that's kind of more what he's been back to doing. They've locked down that middle of the field a little bit better. Like I thought Chris Godwin was going to have the game of the century last night because how soft they've been in that defense.

But there just was no room to be had. So I think that's the big leap they've made. that's been pressed me to be honest. It's tough to run on too, man. Oh, yeah. Travis Jones is an absolute monster in the middle. Michael Pierce. Broderick Washington's a nice piece for that front.

Kyle Van Nuoy just works for this defense. They got speed off the edge in Najabo and, you know, Odafei. Of course, Roquan in the middle. I mean, it's a lot, man. There's a lot going here for this football team. And they've corrected. things already. You mentioned some of the coverage stuff and then also, you know, watching them early in the season, you're very concerned about the offensive line and do they have a right

side with the mix of Falay-Lay and Rosen Garden and if Macari is going to be part of that mix. And so they've been able to stabilize all of it. And like you mentioned, it started off as like very much quick passing yards after catch. And now it's, there's a vertical element to it. And so it feels like they just, they're evolving a lot already in seven weeks. It's just a matter of exactly what you said, that they were killing teams last year, hanging 50 burgers on teams, and then it sort of normalizes. And so I think that's maybe the fan of another AFC contender and me hoping that they're peaking too early. But they look really strong. And obviously, the questions will exist about postseason success until they don't. But you certainly wouldn't

choose to not be playing well, you know, so it's, uh, it's a, it's a good looking team here. And obviously, I think to me, they look like the best team in the AFC. And they're, they're going to keep rolling, dude. They got the Browns next, the Broncos, the Bengals, the Steelers, the Chargers, Eagles, giants, Steelers, Texans, Browns. Like, where are the losses coming here? You know, like, this, this schedule is, is pretty favorable. I don't, I don't think they'll lose more than one or two games at the most. the rest of the way, just based on the way that this stacks up. They've already beaten the pills. They've already beaten the bucks.

They've already played their game against Kansas City that I think if it was played again today, might be a different ballgame. So Baltimore's humming, man. They're humming. It's crazy to say they were staring down the barrel of O and 3, bro. Right. They narrowly escaped Dallas. Yeah, like barely.

They were down in that game. And then at halftime, they completely switched their run scheme. and that just opened up Henry. Like the exact nightmare matchup for Dallas, right? Right, right. Win by three. And then that bills, everything changed. That Sunday night against the bills.

Boy, yeah, they look good. On the other side of this, we have a Tampa Bay Buccaneers team that loses the football game. And it's an interesting NFC South situation. obviously Falcons, it's a two horse race. Goodbye Panthers, goodbye Saints. I mean, boy, they might not, neither team might find another win this season. But both teams are four and three. They face each other this week, if I'm not mistaken.

Falcons obviously licking their wounds after getting smoked by Seattle in Atlanta. We'll talk about Seattle later on. But Tampa Bay at four and three, you felt like all the momentum was there, dude. And they lose this game. Then they lose Chris Godwin, fractured ankle, in, you know, end-of-game situation, they're down 10. They can't do another on-side kick. Like, you have to remember that.

You can only do two on-side kicks. There's no, you're calling a timeout. What do you got? Calling time out. That actually, Peter Schrager screwed us with that. That's not. Oh, really? You can only kick two onsides per game in non-game-deciding situations.

So in fourth quarter, if you are losing, you can kick as many on-side kicks as you want. I fell for it, too. I sent a hasty tweet to T. laying after I saw Shreger's tweet. I even Googled it, Joe. And when you initially Google it, it says, yes, you can only kick two onside kicks per game. That's in neutral game script situation. So, like, in the first quarter, you couldn't decide I'm an onside kick every time I'm kicking off.

You can do it twice, just can't do it more than that. So we got screwed by that. And thanks to Peter Schroeder. Yeah, thanks for that, Peter Shregor. Okay, anyways, Chris Godwin's going to be out for the season with that injury. We're worried about Mike Evans. are you worried about Tampa or is this just a matter of hey let's go trade for a wide receiver and get going well yeah I'm worried about Tampa I mean they like against competitive like

against a really competitive team they were getting shellacked for most of that game now I give them credit for battling back and I you can you know the score maybe wasn't as close as it looked whatever dude they already got one on side kick they get another one you never know what could happen you know you get three points there get another onside kick you're you got a the ball with a chance to tie the game up like there's yeah man i i give him credit for battling back but no mike evans probably for at least a couple weeks right right when the hammy looked bad they ruled them out immediately too which is never a good sign it was like wasn't like you went to the locker room came back you saw him running on the sideline now i was like

he was gone and then it was like he's out for the game and then you know no godwin godwin was playing out of his mind this year, Joe. Like, there's Yeah. That's, I don't know. The second time he's gotten injured in a contract here, if I'm not mistaken. His first contractor, didn't he Terry C.L? I think you're right. Yeah, I mean, they'll just talk about no good luck for him.

Man, that's, thankfully he'll come back faster from this, but. What's interesting is we're talking about Evans and Godwin, and we should, right? This defense stinks. Dude. This might be the worst defense in the NFL. Like, they're a total defense 31st, scoring defense, 28.

they're giving up they're giving up everything to everyone yeah the blitz rate like 55% blitz rate and they just don't get home they don't have any pass rushers dude dude it's i'm kind of sick of Todd bulls too he's so freaking conservative there was a moment yeah come on it's just i got to find the exact moment there was a moment in that game though joe where he it's like fourth and one from the 20 and he kicks a field goal and like the game was starting to slip away, I think, if I remember correctly. I got to, I got to find the exact moment. But I was just, I was texting John Costco, my buddy, PFF buddy, and was like, dude,

what, what is Bulls doing right now? Like, this is, this is ridiculous. So they don't have a single meaningful pass rusher on their team. They just don't. Yeah, yeah, Diabi's your best pass rusher. Troyan Shianke ain't going to be a thing. You can't go to war with Anthony, Anthony Nelson. Like, this is, this is an un-serie.

Colisea Cancy is, well, he only played in one game so far this year, right? Is that it? He made a, I think he was available last night, if I'm not mistaken, but this would, that would have been just his second game of the season. They, they don't have any rush, man. Yeah, he played a lot. He wound up playing last night because remember he, uh, he had that, that earhole shot on Lamar Jackson on the, on the run.

But they, they don't have enough edge rush, man. They just don't. Um, and it's a problem for this team. So like for as much as we're concerned about the offense and the loss of the receivers, big questions on the defensive side of the football. All right. I found the moment. This is the moment that lost in the game, in my opinion. So you remember, they started 10, they were up 10 zero.

And then similar to the Lions Vikings game, the Ravens flipped it on its head right away. They get up 20 to 10. It's middle of the third quarter. Bucks get the ball, drive all the way down the field. they get to the Baltimore 37 fourth and four Bulls decides to kick a 55 yard field goal and he misses and that's that's a go for it moment every time

when the tides have been turned like that you've given up 20 straight points and like three drives in a row or four drives in a row 20 straight points um you got it you got to go for that man you got to stop the bleeding 55 55 year field goal is not enough man So I think that's just that's microcosm of Todd Bowles' coaching career, just ultra-conservative, that that cost of the team the game arguably. Well, tough loss for Tampa. I think obviously there's a lot of season left. It's a two-horse race in that division.

You're four and three. You've already, you lost to Atlanta already. You need to beat him this week. But here's the problem, dude. Their upcoming schedule is Atlanta? at Kansas City, San Francisco. You cannot let this get away from you.

And that's tough. That's your that's your next three games with your bumbling defense and you got questions now on offense. That was like your thing that you had was that passing game. And your running game was starting to wake up a little bit. They got to be careful to not let this get away from them over the next three weeks.

And then they have their buy week and things do soften up out of the buy. But important stretch of game here. Atlanta game looks like a must win game for them. In division, they got to go get it done. Yeah, they need to force a non-head-to-head tiebreaker. They can't, they can't have, not have the tiebreaker against Atlanta because the wild card conversation could be dicey for them. They need to win this division. They need to win this division, especially, you're a Florida team and you want to bring teams to you. You don't want to be going to. That's, you know, Green Bay or something like, yeah, I mean, that's the thing is a lot of the,

the Detroit and Minnesota playing in domes is goofy. to me. You kind of ruin your opportunity to use that to your advantage late in the season. But yeah, they got to take care of their business here over the next couple of weeks. All right here. In just a moment, we are going to focus our conversation back on the AFC side of things. Big injury in Cleveland. Deshawn Watson goes down. What should Cleveland do from here? We'll give you our reaction to all of that in just a moment. So be sure to stick with us. All right, bright, Whitefield. We cannot escape talking about Deshawn Watson. And the latest reason why is because he ruptured his Achilles tendon,

ugly look and injury. And this Browns team is one and six. And I think there's a lot to get into, whether it's their path forward with other quarterbacks, the outlook for Deshaun Watson. I mean, it might be a situation where he's not even available next year. We'll see. I don't know. And then for a talented roster, do they start to really become sellers right now to recoup a bunch of capital to kind of reset their nucleus? And so let's start with the Sean Watson. Obviously, arguably the worst quarterback in the league this year. I think Will Levis might have had a strong case, but it's one of those two. So we started talking about MVP candidates and now we're talking about LVP candidates.

But Watson's played objectively terrible this year. And he ruptures that Achilles. And obviously there's the contract piece of this conversation. It's the seemingly unwavering commitment from whoever's making decisions in Cleveland to continue playing him. And now they can't play him because he's injured. And so they have DTR. They have James Winston. But they also have an opportunity here to without having to worry about, well, you gave up all this to get Watson.

and you're paying all this to have Watson, you can, you have the freedom now to do something different at quarterback. Not that I don't think they always did, because I think the worst thing you can do is cling to a mistake. Yeah. But is there a case to be made that maybe this, I'm not rooting for anyone to get injured. I know there's a lot as that relates to to Sean Watson.

Is this maybe one of the better things that could have happened for the Cleveland Browns that they now have this open door to do something different at quarterback? Yeah. I don't want to say something that's going to get me in trouble. Right. It's hard. It's hard. For one, I'll never pray on somebody's downfall. I'll just say that. I think every human life is worth redeeming. So I don't like that the fans cheered.

That said, his play on the field has been very bad. His choices off the field have also been very bad, allegedly. So I think, yeah, this is probably a good situation for Cleveland now, or at least it's the situation's improved, it might have been the best thing that could have happened. It's the easiest way to, I guess, set up a divorce between team and player without having to get muddy and go through a benching. So yeah, from that standpoint, I think I think the Browns have an opportunity, a real opportunity now to see what their team is without Deshaunette quarterback. So how do you how do you best do that? You've already traded away Amari Cooper.

Is this a situation now where like who's next to be traded? A lot of headlines that are probably more fan and media driven about Miles Garrett. Yeah. And, you know, like to me, he's part of the answer. Like, how quick are you to getting the answer? Do you truly assess this operation without Deshaun at one and six? How do you attack this from a team building perspective? Yeah, you probably sell off pieces.

Like, you're obviously going to go through some type of rebuild situation now. You don't really have a quarterback. You know, you're going to probably be picking high in the draft. So you probably don't sell Miles Garrett though, Joe. I think I think you're right. That's media driven. But a guy like Zadaria Smith, yeah. He's got to go.

You just take what you get and move on. It's, you know, get rid of, I think he's got like a, what, a $9, $10 million cap hit next year. You know, you rid yourself of that. Plus you get draft compensation. It might not going to be much. Fourth, fifth round pick, something like that. But yeah, you go trade guys like that. I'm not sure if they have another.

They do have a relatively young nucleus, am I not mistaken? like Jeremiah Awuso, how you pronounce it? Like you're not trading him. He's a young stud. Denzel Ward is, he's still relatively young. Newsom, still young. Emerson.

Emerson stinks, but I don't think I don't want him. What about like a guy like Joel Bintoneo? Do you go try to flip him? Sure. He's old. Yeah, I would. I would try. Because here's the thing with Cleveland is in terms of spending, they've spent the most of anybody, like over the last three years. I think

it's time to recoup a little bit here. And I think they had a really talented team, but they didn't have the most important thing figured out. And that's a quarterback. And so, yeah, I'm trying to offload some of this. I think they made a good choice in trading Amari Cooper and getting a three back for him. I mean, I look at, I mean, Dalvin Tomlinson, Agbo Acheronquo. These, I don't know, Juan Thornhill is an interesting player. And safety market's always kind of weird, but Wyatt Teller. I'd be looking at all of this as opportunities to unload,

reset, and obviously you get a look here at either DTR or James Winston. I don't know if either one of them's long term, but this season was going nowhere for the Browns anyways. And so, I mean, they're going to be one in six, whether Deshaun Watson finish that game or not. For sure. It's over. So I think they should be coming

They should become sellers. The D-Lyman you mentioned, I think those are easy guys to sell. Most Super Bowl caliber teams are always looking to add a D-Lyman to the room as a season wears on, injuries pile up. O-Linman never get traded. I mean, you know, smaller pieces do. But, you know, I think like the drop-off that occurs on O-Line with age is way, way less steep than D-Line. You know, you don't see a lot of D-Lyman playing mid-30s anymore. There are obviously some like Callais Campbell.

it does happen. But for the most part, the O line drop off is a little more gradual. So like, I think you could still project Bantonio and tell her to be good players the next couple of years. And so for your new quarterback, maybe you want to preserve those pieces for whatever quarterbacks playing back there or the run game even because that's a team built on the run traditionally. So, yeah. All right. Cleveland Brown's in trouble. Be sellers. Don't trade Miles Garrett. I mean, come on. I think he's the top five defensive player in the league. Trade him to the lions, actually.

Don't hold on to him. Well, what's interesting about if they were to trade him, the new team only takes on $806,000 in salary this year, 19.8 non-guaranteed next year, 25 non-guaranteed in 2026. This is an unbelievably attractive contract to trade for. Now, the Browns would have 19 million in dead cap this year and 36 million in dead cap next year. So that's a huge layer to the contract. conversation, but this is a super absorbable contract for anybody.

You don't care about the dead hits when you're rebuilding, though, as much. No, but so what, what's interesting, dude, is I feel like trade value for players has really changed in the NFL as after we saw like the Kalil Mack trade, the Jamal Adams trade, the first Jalen Ramsey trade, where like those guys are going for multiple ones. and if you want to apply that to Miles Garrett, that's the cost. But I'm not sure that's really been the case lately with some of the deals that we've seen gone through where it doesn't feel like teams are prying first round picks or multiple first round picks. I think a lot of that is like think about like the Brian Burns deal.

It's like you're because you're trading for the right to then pay the guy a Brinks truck. Like so he got a second round pick. He's worth more than that. Right. Legerius Sneed or whatever. Obviously, he's terrible this year, but. Yeah, so with a guy like my, that contract's already done and settled. I think that actually increases his value because you know what you're looking at.

There's not going to be a negotiation window for a couple of years. And it's a reasonable cap hit for what you're going to get in return. I think, you know, that probably makes him worth a couple first. Now, we're completely speculating right now. We have no idea that the Browns would even. If they would. If they would, do you think two first? Do you think it takes two first round picks?

Yeah, I think it's- And if you want in some change, a one, a four, and a three or something? Yeah, maybe, yeah. That's different than two ones. It is, but I would say a one and a two, a first round pick and a day two pick minimum. But I think a team, if he was available,

I think they'd easily cough up two first for him. I would. Yeah, I would. I'm not a trade draft picks guy. Like I'm very, push back on that. If I'm the bills, if I'm the Lions, if I'm doing a lot of teams, who wouldn't, I mean, yeah, it's Miles Garrett we're talking about. It's not, it's not Troy Hendrickson, you know, he's a good player. Like, we're talking about Miles Garrett. He's

probably the best defensive player in the league. Atlanta, if you're Atlanta. Absolutely, you do it. The thing that's tough with the Lions is Brad Holmes hasn't missed yet. Drafting. Yeah. So it's hard, like it's easy to say, well, look at his track record. We want to keep those picks in Brad's hands, cost effective, yada, yada. But I think they're in a window where they go for. I think the lines are. It's Miles Garrett, though. It's Miles Garrett, exactly.

Is the case with, how old is Miles Garrett? I think we need to look into that. Miles Garrett is 2080 turns 29 in December. If we're talking about the Brown team as a rebuilding operation that is potentially in search of a quarterback, are they going to be able to maximize? the remaining prime of Miles Garrett. If they could get two first round picks for him. I mean, that's a great point.

Yeah, because by the time you're good, he's going to be coming out of his prime. Maybe 32. Yeah, NFL can, things can happen quick, 31, 32. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good argument to trade him right there, Joe. Especially if you get two first round picks, you're contributing that to the rebuild.

you're incurring some dead cap hit, but you're inevitably freeing some money up as well. That's a... What if they like Pennix? Penix in a one? Galaxy brain here on first. That's a great call. I don't know that we landed on anything in terms of what anybody should do. This is where we've landed.

Teams should be interested in trading for Miles Garrett. Yeah. The Brown should think about it. And the Brown should think about it. I think that's where we're at with this entire conversation. All right. Let's shift gears here. Let's go to the NFC West, Brett Whitefield.

I think there's a fascinating couple of teams here. The 49ers, they take an L to Kansas City. I don't remember. Did you and I talk about this? I was in on two road money lines this week. I was in on the Lions and I was in on the chiefs going into San Francisco and winning this game. circumstances obviously were not great for

San Francisco as they lose Brandon Ayuk. Debo can't finish the game. He has an ammonia. Trent Williams gets kicked out of the game. Purdy's throwing picks all over the place. And they lose to Kansas City, who continues to play bad, but they're 6 and 0. So, but let's keep this about the NFC West. And I want to get to Seattle, but let's, let's laser in on the 49ers.

Are they cooked? Are they cooked? They feel cooked. Can't stop the run. Offense has fallen apart with all of the injuries continuing them out. They just lost their best man-beater in Brandon Ayuk for the season. That's not great. Debo always has health issues.

Always. Never doesn't. Probably something to do with playing at 245 pounds as a wide receiver. But I digress. Well, you got a first round pick and parasol. I don't know. I don't think Ronnie Bell and Jacob Cowling and Chris Conley really moved the needle for most people. But you still look at this collection of talent. I mean, they do have B-boat. They do have George Kittle. Parasol is a first-round pick. And there are receivers that you can trade for.

Like the one thing that I know about the NFL is that wide receivers get traded. And in my life of following the NFL, that's what happens. Wide receivers get traded. And we've already seen Devante Adams and Amari Cooper get traded. I still think there's five out there that are reasonable options, and this would apply to Tampa Bay and San Francisco. I think Deontay Johnson and Carolina is absolutely a player that should be traded. I think DeAndre Hopkins in Tennessee, they didn't even play him at the end of the game.

It felt like maybe they were making sure he didn't get hurt. Mike Williams, I don't know if he's good or not, but a player, a player, right? He doesn't fit the minor scheme at all. No, he doesn't, but I mean, maybe for Tampa, maybe not. I don't know, Christian Kirk. Things like, I feel like it's kind of falling apart there. Brian Thomas looks good. They paid Gabe Davis.

They have Evan Ingram. Ingram's redundant to Kirk for sure. Right. So you have Christian Kirk. And then even Darius Slayton with the Giants. That's a huge one because he's the most underrated receiver in the league. So those are, those are off the top of my head five receivers that can be traded for. And so whether you're, and the 49ers have like $50 million in cap space.

So if you're Tampa or if you're the 49ers, you don't have to sit around and lick your wounds over losing a receiver. Go trade for one of these guys. Yeah. What is it going to call? Does any one of them going to cost you more? More than, I mean, none of those players are better than Cooper and Adams who went for threes. Yeah, you didn't mention Cooper Cup.

I think there's rumors. Oh, Cooper Cup. Good Lord. Yeah. Let me add them to the list. I doubt 49ers can swing. that since it's an indivision thing but you want to talk about a Chris Godwin replacement. I know there's a vertical element that's really there with Godwin, but slot replace.

Well, hold on. Liam Cohen's the play caller. Hello. Spent five years with Cooper. Hello. Yeah. Maybe we just broke news, Joe. What are we doing here?

Get it done. And if you're the 49ers, go get Deontay Johnson. What's that guy doing in Carolina? He's wasting his life. And you know who his play style resembles is that of Brandon. Knight. Yeah. Separator against man coverage.

Yeah. No, I think you're on to something, man. I think both those teams got to go make it happen. But pertaining to the NFC West and the 49ers, like, yeah, I think they need to do something. They need D-Line help too, Joe. The pressure is good. They're getting pressure on the quarterback. They can't stop the run, though.

And I've been saying this for, I swear to God, 18 months. It's their Achilles steel. I've heard you talk about him pretty sure every episode. Yeah. I've heard about this, Brett Whitefield. Yeah, I mean, but what's funny about that is like, obviously losing Hargrave hurts a ton, but what are they, like Kevin Givens and Malik Collins are just, they've been always terrible run defenders. And I mean, even losing Javan Kinlaw, that probably made the run defense better because he stinks. But yeah, man, they got to find some dudes there.

Jordan Elliott, not an answer. Like anybody that watched him in college or with the Browns, not an answer. So they need to find, find some, some beef. Go get Delvin Tomlinson. Go call for that guy. But is it a lost cause? Are they just, dude, this stat bothers me so bad. I know I'm all over the place right now.

This Kyle Shanahan is 0 for 40 when having an eight point deficit in the fourth quarter. Oh for 40. Not two for 38. you know not three for 37 0 for 40 never got it done you're saying not once but but not 10 times

not 0 for 10 not oh for 40 how much of that has to do with the lack of QB talent he's had which is his fault by the way I'm not absolving him of this I think it's partly that but I think it's partly that scheme that scheme is not built for drop back passing right yeah everything's got tags to it

and yeah play action everything looks the same everything's mirrored yeah so when it's the same thing in miami like when these teams have to just go drop back passing and read read it out and read a progression and rip the ball they can't do it you know all for 40 you're seen in houston too right they can't play from behind this is what jare go jerig golf needed to get out of that scheme yeah oh good call so like there's a there's that like the shanahan rage like cool it looks pretty, man. Everybody loves scheming guys open and yards after catch, man. Everybody loves it until you can't play with the lead and you got to play from behind and your quarterback just has to do normal stuff. Wow.

Oh, for 40. I mean, sometimes there's just stats that just completely blow my mind. And I've been chewing on that for like two days now. That is, that is quite the stat. The nice thing for the 49ers, though, is the NFC West in general is kind of just blah. Who are the Seahawks? I really want to get into this with you because this is where I'm at with Seattle. I think you could tell me that Seattle beats any team in the NFL, and I would not be surprised. You could tell me that they could lose to any team in the NFL, and I would not be surprised. I think they're very talented.

I think they're extremely talented. But who are they, dude? Are they the team that can go to Atlanta and blow the brakes off them? Or are they the team that is going to lose to the Giants in Seattle? and play, you know, close with Denver and close with New England. And I know that those early season games with a brand new coaching staff, that is very, you know, not a super experienced group. Maybe that kind of leads to some stuff.

But, dude, I have no idea who the Seahawks are. A talented collection of players, some interesting coaches, but are they actually good? They're four and three, though. I texted the guys at Fantasy Points data the other day. During the Seahawks game, I said, explain to me like I still eat food out of a jar and wear diapers. Who, like the Seattle Seahawks, explain them to me. I don't understand them. Good.

They are so all over the place. Week to week, you literally have no idea what you're going to get. Well, let me tell you how excited I am for the bills to play them in Seattle on Sunday. I think I have a clue what to expect. How hurt is D.K. though. He's got an MCO. He's going to do everything he can to try to play. He just sit it out.

Sit it out, D.K. I mean, honestly, it probably should. Right, right. I know I'm being tongue in cheek, but yeah, he should sit it out. I mean, like, I know that this is very Bill's fan in me. Like, it's an AFC game, dude. This isn't, you don't put it all on the line for this week. Come back, you got the ramp, your next three Rams, 49ers, Cardinals.

Be ready for that. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. The Seattle's second. Jerry's been all over the place, started the season hot, hit like a four-game stretch of just abject awful. And now they- Well, I mean, they played Bo Nixon's debut, the Patriots, and then the Skylar Thompson Dolphins. I mean, come on, you and I have a chance playing in secondary against them.

That's true. That's a great point. Congratulations. You look good against them. And this just shows you the overreactive nature of the NFL, right? Like there's a lot of these situations where probably, like we've praised Tennessee's defense also. They've played Anthony Richardson and Caleb Williams and his, you know, debut. And there's, there's a lot of, I guess, layups there for that defense.

Oh, Tennessee? Yeah. Until Josh Allen this week, they played three consecutive backups. Caleb Williams in his NFL debut. And Anthony Richardson. No, they didn't. They got, oh, the first time they got Anthony Richard. Did they play him twice already?

Did I thought, I thought they played. No, they got Flacco. got flacco the other the other quarterback was i think you're off on this why do i remember richardson and levis going toe to toe with who could throw the worst pick i think it was i think it was richardson and caleb williams or it was levis and caleb williams in week one yeah you're right my bad my bad dang it yeah so they got they got californs in his debut aaron rogers in week two he stinks and then three consecutive backups and then josh allen and Josh Allen threw for 325 yards on.

There you go. So Seahawks, similar thing here where they started the season against bad QBs and their defense looked awesome. And then against good QBs, they looked bad. This week, they obviously looked better against Kurt Cousins and the Falcons. But I have no idea what to do with this team, man. Offensively, they're such a slog. It's actually go look at the passing splits between like Gino Smith and like Jared

Gough. Gino has like 300 yards more passing than golf and he's dropped back like 160 more times. It's the number one yards team in the NFL in terms of, and most of passing attempts in the NFL. It's just volume. It's just volume. It's all it is. Surprise.

They're 31st in rushing attempts. We never would have saw that coming. The crazy thing is the run game looks good. Kenneth Walker's a monster. He's such a big play back. Yeah, I think it's got to come. Their talent is good. I mean, obviously, maybe some questions on the interior offensive line, but, like, it's not a deficient roster in any way.

They have, like, plus athletes all over the place. So we'll find out who Seattle is. All right, we got a little bit more to get to here today. I want to talk some Sequin Barkley. Packers get a big one over the Texans, right? That was a big one? And maybe a little was Mike Tomlin right about starting Russell Wilson? We'll get to that more here on the other side of it.

Folks, be sure to stick with us. All right, Brett Whitefield. The Packers fans out there are saying, wow, Brett Whitefield made us wait 50 minutes to hear about our big win over the Houston Texans. They're throwing eggs at you, man. They get a big win. They beat Houston. And, I mean, just an absolute dreadful day for the Houston passing game.

Texas fans want Bobby Sloick to be fired after season. JJ Strago is 10 of 21 for 86 yards. Obviously, Joe Mixing, productive running the football. The game was pretty tight. But the Packers escaped. They're 5 and 2 and get a big win over Houston. Yeah, Jordan Love with some more untimely turnovers. It really why this game was close.

Honestly, like, it shouldn't, Packers should have blown them out with the way the Texans were playing in this game. So they allowed them to keep their run game involved. But when it came down to it, Packers get the dub. I got to hit my hat. to the defensive play caller there in Green Bay. His name is halfway. Yeah,

Halfley. He's basically doing what Todd or Todd Bulls, God, not Todd Bowles. He's basically doing a Brian Flores is doing in Minnesota, very similar scheme and style, similar coverage rotations as well. And he's not really getting the credit Flores is. It's kind of incredible. This was a great, they just had CJ Stroud's brain in a blender this entire game. So he's got that back end playing so well right now.

Xavier McKinney is he is he the best safety in the league right now Joe yeah I think so he's insane bro that guy is freaking insane I mean he actually reminds me a little bit of Brian Branch in Detroit and I've obviously watched Branch a lot closer than I have McKinney but just the last four games I've watching McKinney the dude is like you can't they can play anywhere he's taking snaps at outside corner in a pinch or with a weird rotation he's coming down on the nickel he's playing deep He's playing in the box. He's rushing the passer, playing linebacker. This guy is all over the place.

And they do some really unique coverage looks with him, some disguises, some rock and roll in the safeties and getting him in optimal positions to make plays on the ball. And he's got burst and acceleration and ball skills for days, bro. He's so fun to watch. But yeah, Jeff Hathley has his defense just ball in right now. And Jordan Love isn't really back to what he was at the end of last year yet. He's, listen, the jaw dropping throws are still there. Joe, like he looks good until he doesn't.

It's one of those like, man, this guy's ball and then he just throws a pick. You're like, oh, but why'd you do that? So he's not even quite back, but they're still winning games. They still look really, really good. So, yeah, Jeff Halfley, you're the man. Houston, I think they're going to be just fine. There are two losses against the Vikings and the Packers. Well, I think they're going to be fine relative to their path to winning that division.

Do I think that they're going to beat Baltimore or Buffalo or Kansas City in the playoffs? I don't. Have you, by chance, peaked C.J. Stroud splits with Nico Collins on and off the field? He matters. He matters. There might not be a more sizable difference in quarterback play when C.J. Stroud is missing Nico Collins. Yeah. It's great. Last year, man. It's crazy. It's a big deal. So we'll see when he can get back. The Texans next have the Colts. Colts, Jets, Lions, Cowboys. boys next stretch of games for Houston. Let's talk a little bit about Saquan Barkley. Big revenge game going to MetLife.

They beat the Giants handily. Saquan has a ton of rushing yards. It was a personal situation. Giants fans are burning his jersey. Feels like that's some misguided anger. Did the Giants make a mistake here? And Bill Belichick certainly feels like they did. He was with Manning, with the Manning brothers and said, look, for a few million bucks more,

they could have had their best player in Saquan Barclay. Instead, they got some guard. Their offensive line is still bad. Do you feel like this was bad business? Did the Giants need to keep him? Is there another layer to this that says, not only did we not keep him, he goes to Philly, a division rival? This NFC East doesn't really look that good with Washington kind of being the best team in it.

Did they make a mistake here? you're putting me in a situation where I got to say the phrase that running doesn't matter I did this on purpose yeah here's the thing Sequin Barclay this season is averaging like 3.1 adjusted yards before contact per carry he had another

60 yarder in this game Joe where he wasn't tackled or he wasn't touched until the moment he was tackled 60 yards downfield that's like the third this year so like the O line is jamming the scheme the fact that they tag Reed option on freaking damn near every rush attempt is giving

Saquan Barclay the most favorable looks he's ever seen this is you're also seeing this with Derek Henry and Baltimore there's a reason Derek Henry's averaging 6.5 yards of carrier this year when the last three years combined it's been four two four three right right it's like much more favorable situation good offensive line good play calling good play design so would Saquan Barkley be doing this in New York no I have no problem with the making that business decision and moving on. They weren't. They're not a run-heavy team, or at least they weren't. Their offensive line is in shambles.

They needed to save the money. I'm completely fine with it. Completely fine with it. Tracy, who looks awesome? I mean, no. Forget about it. Is it different when you look at it through the lens of the Giants, year three of shape of Shane and Dayball?

They don't have a lot to show for their roster construction efforts. And did this give them an identity piece to give them a chance? chance or it's like is this all just part of they're getting fired at the end of the year what could it have been different if sayquan was there would they be would they not be two and five no he doesn't change he doesn't move the needle at all for them he's not necessarily moving the needle much for philly either so you think a lot of this is misguided you're saying bill bellichick you're wrong about i'm saying bill bellichick you're wrong about this one point five adjusted yard before contact per carry for berkeley last year he's getting more than double that this year

so the production is completely I shouldn't say he is doing things also you know he's playing well but the production the up thing in production is largely in part because of the situation he's in not because of him so the Giants are getting similar similar results from Singletary and Tracy

that they were getting for Barclay I think I agree with you I think I agree with you other than don't be surprised when Shane and Dayball are fired at the end of the season and you will wonder, could it have been different? And you're saying no, it wouldn't have been different. No. And then they would have had an expensive running back on the roster. Right. Long term, not great for the tenure of Shable, of Shabel, Dane and, Jesus,

Dayball and Shane, not great for those guys. Um, but long term for the Giants. I, I am inclined to think that you're correct about that, that he wasn't. the piece that could have been maximized with the makeup of that roster. How about this one, Brett Whitefield? I had a lot of criticism for Mike Tomlin for making the choice of starting Russell Wilson, didn't see the upside. Obviously, he looks like a genius for one game, at least. And Mike Tomlin had a great quote in his press conference.

He said, you know, this is why I'm highly compensated to bench my quarterback at four and two to go into Russell Wilson. Now, look, I mean, he threw some yolo balls to George Pickens. And I don't know how sustainable it is, you know, some really kind of, fortunate bounces of the ball. I thought his best play was actually the, I don't know if it was play action or not, but it was a quick pass to Pat Friermuth,

where he had a free runner in his face was able to stop and did just his arm angle and get it to him. I thought the game broke open right then and there. Yeah, man. So where are you at, man? Did Mike Tomlin pull the right string at the right time, or is kind of that an unsustainable situation? Yeah, go pull the tape from Thursday's show.

first read guys if you didn't listen to it. I made the case that I agree to Tomlin and benching fields and putting Russell Wilson out there. I think from on the field perspective, it made sense to me. Now, I worried about the locker room, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. I haven't heard anybody complaining. So Tomlin obviously knows the locker room better than I do. Right. So it looked, yeah, you mentioned the Yolo ball stuff.

Joe, that was part of the problem of fields, though. You get one-on-one coverage with your best player down the field. every quarterback in the league takes those shots. Does it always look pretty? No, he under threw George Pickens by about five yards on one of them and Pickens made a ridiculous play. But that's okay. Like you want those opportunities.

You want your quarterback to go out there and give your wide receiver a chance. And Russ did it. That's what you asked for. I pickin's ability to, I mean, this was him going back to Georgia. His ball skills and ability to contort his body midair is insane. And Russ just, He throws such a catchable deep ball.

Not necessarily that it's accurate. It's that he puts so much air on it and it is in play. And a guy like Pickens can go get the ball, right? There was a moment in that game where it was like a wide receiver screen and Russ threw it like four yards behind the receiver. And I was like, oh, no, this is bad. This is going to be really bad. From that moment on, Russ played a really clean game.

I think it was sloppy to start. Yeah, sloppy to start. And then he tightened it up. They get the win. The run games come alive, too. I don't know if you've noticed this. Yeah. Jets are not hard to run against, but nausea looks good.

Jalen Warren looks good, healthy. And they have offensive line injuries as well in Pittsburgh. So never doubt Mike Tomlin. Say what you want about them. They're five and two. They got the Giants next. And then they're biweek. Playing great defense.

Nobody's running on them. Disruptive front. Inevitable. inevitable is the word I just keep coming back to with this football team. And it feels like the only quarterback he couldn't win with is Kenny Pickett. It's like put Mason Rudolph in there. We'll get special teams touchdowns and run the ball. And or Mitch Trubisky, right?

Those are the two players. Late stage Ben Rathusberger, they can get some wins. Rookie season, Kenny Pickett, they can get some wins. Put Russ in there. Put Justin Fields in there. So that just kind of works for him. Yep. All right.

Anything else you want to get to here, sir? I think I'm good. Are we going to talk? We'll talk to a Thursday, right? Talk to on Thursday. We'll get a little college quarterback discussion on Thursday. Get ready for week eight in the NFL. It's going to be a good show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good show coming Thursday. Remember, we need your support on the feeds. So you're listening to this. If you're on the Fantasy Points Now feed and you're listening to this, I need you to go over to the first read feed. Just first read or NFL first read. However you want to search it, it comes up on Spotify,

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