Fantasy Football Daily - NFL Draft HOT TAEKS!!1!1! | Take Talk Podcast

Episode Date: April 8, 2023

On the 50th Episode of Take Talk, Steve O'Rourke (@callmesteveo7) and Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) put the TAEKS in Take Talk and drop some of their wildest predictions and opinions on this month's NFL Draft. Additionally, listen in for a chance to win a Fantasy Points subscription! Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoint.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Hello, everyone, and welcome into the Take Talk podcast. I'm Stephen O'Rourke, and as always, I'm with my co-host, Brett Whitefield. And Brett, it is episode 50. Oh, that's a pretty big. milestone I think it a massive milestone Steve we're celebrating I'm popping

champagne right now I know I'm hammering coffee it's a good it's a great time of year I'll probably maybe even throw some Bailey's in it get the day going yes Steve speaking to episode 50 we put out a challenge for people for a giveaway in episode 50 giveaway yes we are getting away fantasy points premium subscription this is like the Mac Daddy subscription. The amount of crap you get with it is insane. But we're not going to do it right now on the pod. Steve,

if you want to know why. Why? Because just like my 7-year-old and my 6-year-old, people can't follow directions. I don't know how many entries I got of people not fulfilling the full criteria. I need the review. And I need screenshot proof of the review. Not one or the other. You also can't just DM me and say,

hey, I did a review. Can I be entered into the, no, you don't do the whole thing. I need screenshot proof. So far, I think out of, we've had over 20 entries for the giveaway. Nice. Only three people actually follow directions. Now, I'm just going to throw it out there right now. We will do a giveaway for just those three people next week for following directions.

So they will be in their own little mini pool. So they have a 33% chance of winning the premiums up. For the other bit of slackers, I'm going to reward you still with a giveaway, but you're going to be in the bigger pool with everybody else. So we're actually going to give away two now. So that's what you did. You guys didn't follow directions, and now I'm forced to give away two subscription. Look what you made us do.

Look what you made us do. But I had to come on here and talk about that because that's, that's, you guys are what? Like, I think everyone that applied is at least 18 years old. You can't follow basic directions. Five star rating, screenshot proof. That's all it takes. You guys couldn't do that? Come on.

Listen, I mean, pre-pod, we were talking about, like, customer service and stuff. And if there's anything that I think anybody has learned in customer service, and I love all of our listeners. But the one thing you learn is that you just have to assume that nobody knows what they're doing ever at any point, at any time. That, like, every customer, you're going to have to sometimes just take them by the hand. and like your seven and six year old be like okay first we're going to start by doing this and then when you're done with that we're going to go over and do this and then the job is done so the the keywords in my house or how i get my kids on track are and this is a business tactic as well prioritize and execute i'll say alia that's my seven-year-old what do you need to do right now

she'll list off this giant list and she's all frazzled because this list is big of things she has to do. I said, all right. Of course. What do we do then to accomplish the list? Prioritize and execute, daddy. Prioritize and execute. And then boom, sure enough, my seven-year-olds can figure that out. So I need everyone listening that wants to be part of the giveaway to prioritize and execute.

Get your rating in. Get your screenshot. DM it to me. Takes like max two and a half minutes. That's max. Max. That's if you do that. finger in the review, you know?

That's if your computer stalls in the middle and you're like, it's lagging and the Twitter page won't load. Yeah, exactly. Screenshots are taking a little bit of time. Then that's where you hit the two and a half minutes. Otherwise, like 38 seconds. Yes. You can do it. We believe in you all.

I know you guys can do it. I know it. I know you can for sure. Well, cool. So let's, before we get into football stuff, Steve, I did have a little sidebar conversation. I messaged you and Chris yesterday about the the born trilogy. Yes. The original born trilogy,

not anything that's been created afterwards because it's trashy. But that original born trilogy, Steve, because we've talked to TV and movies on this podcast, so I figured it was a good time to come back and do it. Yeah. That original born trilogy is fantastic. I love it. 50 times, but I recently got a notification on Netflix.

Like, you have 20 more days to watch the born identity. And I'm like, what? Why are you suggesting this? But anyway, so I went through, I watched all three movies in like a 36-hour span. I love that. It still stands up today as one of the better, I would say, like, action genre trilogies. It's phenomenal. It is so good.

I love Matt Damon. I love the whole premise of the movies and everything. I think they're really well done. I feel like that I feel like the. The Born Identity was like one of the first action movies I ever saw. Yeah. Of like real action. Because I remember my parents were super into the Born movies.

And I like I remember watching it. And then I feel like the Born trilogy is like in my stable of movies that I try and watch at least once a year. Yes. I've got like the Born trilogy, Dark Knight is always in there. one at least two of like quentin tarantino movies and then dumb and dumber in the hangover those are like the movies that once a year i make sure to watch because i love them all so much those movies where like if you happen to be scrolling like tv like i'm i rarely have regular tv on but if i do i'm like scrolling and then one of them it just i just inevitably land there and then i end up watching the whole thing because There is something about like, yeah, like obviously you can watch a lot of these movies on demand whenever you want, but there's something about stumbling on the movie on cable and the end just like, it's just a, I don't know, it's just different.

And I like, I completely agree where like I'll be scrolling through like YouTube TV and I'll see it. I'm like, all right, I got to throw it on. Yeah, exactly. The big point I wanted to make with the porn identity, though, is how many other shows and movies. have followed the model of that. Like, they owe everything to that director and writer. Like, it's crazy. There's been, I mean, hundreds of spy shows where they all follow the same generic, you know, rogue.

I mean, even shoot, what's the newest one? Jack, was it Jack Ryan? Yeah, the Jack Ryan shows have such a boring feel to them. Yeah. It's a mysterious spy. You don't know a lot about him. He's always in trouble in foreign countries, dodging, you know, Interpool, dodging CIA, dodging FBI.

It's crazy. I mean, it's, but like they, they owe everything to this, this Born trilogy because they really set the standard for how to make these productions. And none of them, by the way, have been nearly as good as the Born trilogy. No. It's, yeah, it's just such a hard, like, I feel like it's so hard to execute it in a way that's, like, believable. Yeah. Because they're just like, I mean, everybody loves a good government incompetence type, you know, type situation. And I feel like that's like what a lot of those movies and movies.

and movies and shows are like based out of it. Someone like stepping up and taking over for the incompetence or getting around the incompetence. And it's just so hard to make it in a way that's like overall believable. And I feel like the Born trilogy did that so well. And Matt Damon is just, I mean, Matt Damon is an exceptional actor. I've always been a big fan of him. And I think so much of like his demeanor is what helps pull that off is that the writing combined with his ability to, you know, have that demeanor that is needed for the character,

I feel like it's just perfect. Yeah. And after going to the trilogy again, one thing I've realized too, Steve, is I think that format, that style of content is better done over movie than TV. Because you got to think about the level of intensity that each one of those movies maintains. Yes. You can't. It's hard to keep that up for 10 to 12 episodes.

Yes. You get so, like, he used the word desensitized because, but it's true, you get so desensitized to all these traumatic moments he's going through. Right. You're just like, or the main character is going through. You're just like, but like there's crazy stuff happening. It doesn't even affect you in any way. Bourne's not like that. Like every critical moment is like edgy your seat.

Like you're just gripped in. Right. You know, waiting to see what happened. So I think the two hour format is actually better. It's a better medium to get that story told. Yeah, it's a believable time for they put it in like a believable time frame when it's 10 episodes and something big happens every episode like you said you become like numb to it almost where it's like all right. How can this all be going? How can this happen right after that happened last week?

Like you're telling me that all of this is happening like just consecutively. Right. Exactly. All right. Speaking of things we're getting numb to. How about the NFL draft? Steve. I feel like it's finally ramping.

Like the, there, that's that period between like, end of the Super Bowl to like, end of March. It's that like phasing out of football being, being here, but still staying engaged with free agency.

And like, the draft just gets so hammered home. I mean, which obviously is great and we all love it. But like it just, like you said, you get numb to it at times where this player's falling this player's rising this player's doing great this player tested terribly this

player tested great it's just like this like it just all sounds it just all blends together yep 100% and there's so many opinions out there oh my gosh i mean i pulled up a website today just because i like i'm just kind of keeping a running tally keeping eyes on who had like what mock drafts have people going where and I found a website where I think it's pretty just I think it's just like NFL mock draft database.com. I'm in that now by the way. You are. I saw that.

You were like number 10 on the list, which I thought was huge representation for fantasy points. We love that. But it's just like, I mean, there were hundreds, I think. Yeah. It's insane. And like it's just, it can be such an echo chamber where all of them. start especially at this time when they're like when the the visits get kind of finalized all the pro

days and the combine numbers are the same like all of them start to look the same yes well it's so echo chambery by the way if you're using the mock draft database and please just for your own sake don't use my mocks as a curation i my mocks aren't predictive the mock draft 4.0 will be a predictive mock Steve, but the first three, these are like what I would do if I was the GM. Right. And by no means trying to tell you what I think is going to happen. So when you, when I put four quarterbacks going one through four, I don't think that's going to happen.

But I just, you know, I wouldn't use my mock draft for that purpose. So I'm flattered to be on the database. Use it to judge your GM. Brett knows more than them. Oh. All right. Well, that, that way, Steve, because I wanted to get into hot takes. Your top hot takes and not we're not talking other people's hot takes is yours

Things that you have kind of feeling in your heart or your brain that you think is hot takey. I've got a couple Want to get those out there and what are your top hot takes of this draft cycle? So without further ado, let's just jump right into those. Do you want to start it or you want me to start it? I will start it. I'm debating which one I like the most. But I think the one, my hot take that I like the most is that I think there will be four plus trades in the first round and none of them will include Aaron Rogers or Lamar Jackson.

I don't think either of them are getting traded before draft day and I don't think either of them are getting traded on draft day. But I think there's going to be a lot of movement in the draft. So not including the trades that have already happened. Correct. Like four draft day trades. Yes, four or more draft day trades. I'll buy that. I'll buy that because what you got probably Tennessee looking to move up. I've heard Las Vegas. now is talking about moving up? Yeah, that's popping up in a lot of mocks lately. As I was scrolling through a lot of the recent ones from like this week,

I'm seeing a lot of movement up from Vegas. Yeah, Detroit, I don't think they're going to move up from six, but I do think there's a really good chance they move up from 18. Like Brad Holmes is a super aggressive general manager. He goes after the guy he wants. He's traded up in both of his first two drafts at some point. So I think if the right player is sitting there, you know in the late you know I don't know 10ish area yeah you think I think you could see him

move up similar to how we did with James and for Jameson Williams last year but so there's three potential trade partners right there the Eagles we know that they kind of want to move down probably with from yeah there's lots yeah they're both candidates the Texans we've heard are possibly looking to move back from 12 to get some more capital yep and you know if you look at Lance zero lines recent mock he actually had them trading up from 12 so they passed on the quarterback at two, and then they came up from 12 to get the quarterback, fascinating pathway that no one has really talked about except for Lance. Yeah.

The more I dove into that, the way, I'm like, wow, that really makes sense, especially if they have two quarterbacks they love. If they've got a Bryce Young and say Will Levis with a similar grade. Yep. But you love, you know, Anderson or Carter or whoever, and you want both guys. You want a quarterback and your building block on defense. There's no reason they shouldn't try that. Absolutely. For a team that's so at the beginning of their rebuild, of building up this team again, like, yes, bringing in a quarterback should probably be a priority. But at the same time, I mean, you've seen other teams go about it in different ways where quarterback wasn't a priority and it works out fine too. And so why not go, like why not on a team that is desperate for talent? Why not go for the

best player available who can impact your team at a, you know, a premier position that isn't quarterback, like an edge or even like an interior defensive line or even a corner, things like that. Like, why not go and get talent in other areas when you're so desperate for it? You're not going to compete this year. I think everybody can kind of agree with that. You probably, you might not even compete to like for a playoff spot next year. But all, like right now, it should just be about accumulating talent as much and as fast as possible. Yep. I agree with that.

So, I mean, right off the bat there, we just identified like four fairly obvious potential trades. And there's always some that surprise you, too. And like, especially with so many GMs and people in decision-making positions, they prioritize analytics. And I feel like a lot of analytics kind of pushed. toward looking at trading accumulating draft capital things like that and with more guys in that position i think we're seeing you're going to see and we've seen more more trades in the draft more movement in the draft because of that because there are guys that prioritize the picks over

you know the premier draft you know the premier draft spot they'd rather have five swings at it than three 100 percent All right, before we move on, any other obvious trade scenarios, you could see. Oh, yeah, I got one. Baltimore. Yeah. Baltimore, you know, as we get to the draft, and if things are still unclear about Lamar Jackson, well, actually, I don't even think we need clarity there.

I think the one thing that is clear is he don't want to play in Baltimore. No, there was that awkward press conference the other day with Harbaugh, where people started wanting to ask about Lamar because, obviously and they just were like we're not we're not going to answer questions about him today like it's it's reaching the point where everybody's sick of it the organization and Lamar and you know I mean we've even reached a point where I think people have kind of stopped talking about it overall everybody just wants something to happen the problem is is the Ravens are the ones that have to like help make something happen yeah

and they're not doing it. Right. Yeah, they're going to take their ball and go home. Yeah, but I think they're, so they're an obvious trade-up candidate because they're going to need a quarterback at some point. Yeah. Obviously, they could stand at 23 and look at a guy like hooker,

which honestly is not a terrible fit. But, yeah, I think maybe they'd get in the mix there. I also think Minnesota as a team that could show up as, like, they haven't been talked about trading much, but I feel like they're in a weird, weird spot overall with their team. Kurt Cousins is nearing potentially the end. They're, you know, they've got some young guys, some older. I could see them trading down, accumulating more draft capital and trying to fill out that roster a little bit more.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, that is quite Quesey being an analytics guy, that's what he's going to want to do. Yeah, that's what I, that's, I mean, he did it last year, and I think that, again, he's a guy that wants a lot of swings at it. Trust his process wants more swings at it, wants to, like, build out this team. And I think that he's, like I said, he's a guy that I could see making a move, making a move down. I don't really see them going up, but I think they want to, they're going to want to accumulate more draft picks as, or as many as they can. For sure.

All right, I'm going to throw one out there. This is a big one for me. So I'm through most of my defensive evaluations at this point. Yep. There's two cornerbacks that are kind of like in their tier at the top. Yep. Evan Witherspoon and Christian Gonzalez. Yep.

Witherspoon played primarily press man in college. He has the most press man reps of any corner in this draft. That's what he did. and he did at a very high level. Christian Gonzalez was the opposite. He didn't do a lot of press man. He's got some reps of it. I'm not saying he didn't ever do it.

But for most of his snaps, he was playing zone. And not only that, some type of off zone. Yep. Where he's reading a lot of what's happening in front of him. And what's crazy is the more I really kind of section out their skill sets and skill summaries, the more I think their best fit in the NFL is to literally flip their roles. I think there's been coming in and playing. No, I'm not saying he can't play man.

Certainly not saying that. But I do think his best skill is his instincts, his ability to play through the hands of a receiver, his ball hawking nature, his physicality. So coming up and laying the wood, you don't get opportunities to do that when you play man, because you're usually in chase or you're in phase, You're playing some type of trail.

You're chasing a guy all over the field. Right. When you're in zone, you get to really maximize that physicality. I think Witherspoon's best pathway to success in the NFL is playing on a team that's going to prioritize zone a little bit more than man. Again, I'm not saying he can't play man, but you're going to want him playing some type of off coverage. I'm not even sure he wouldn't be best fit in the slot because I think that's where he could make the biggest impact as a run defender. And then Gonzalez, on the other hand, I don't ever want that guy playing zone. Poor instincts.

This is my biggest issue why I have Witherspoon actually ahead of him. I think Gonzalez really shows poor instincts. Explain this to me, Steve. You got a guy in Witherspoon who's, or sorry, Gonzalez, who's almost 6'2, got 34-inch arms, ridiculous explosiveness and burst and athleticism. Yet he had half the ball production of Devin Witherspoon, despite, playing in zone 60% more of the time. Yeah.

What does that speak to? It speaks to a lack of instincts, generally speaking. He's very slow to process route concepts in front of him. He doesn't have this clicking close that Devin Witherspoon has. He's really, I don't know if it's a lack of urgency or just a lack of seeing it, but he does not break on breaks underneath of him when he's in zone coverage.

So from a physical standpoint, he has all the traits in the world to be a pressman corner. So I think getting Gonzalez, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, by the way. I think everyone agrees Gonzalez is a press man guy. He just didn't have a lot of reps of it in college. So the best pathway to success for him is for him to be a press man guy and Witherspoon being his own guy. So I kind of see their roles reversing in the NFL. Yeah.

I don't know. What do you think of that hot take? The way you laid out makes a lot of sense. I think that like you said, so much of what Witherspoon's calling card is. is coming up and laying lumber. That is being involved in the play. And that, like you said, man-to-man corners don't get that as much. You're running with a guy you're being runoff and run game.

You're prioritized on that guy. But being able to put him, like you said, in the slot and more of a zone coverage, allowing him to have eyes in the back field, allowing him to have eyes on the quarterback, it'll allow him to, like you said, process the play, process things a lot faster and come up and make an impact in the run game, in the screen. against the screen game like have him you know get in get into the mud get in the nitty gritty like that's what he showed he can do why not let him go run around and you know make plays you put him in man you're taking like you're not taking it away but he just becomes less impactful in that

yeah and physically speaking like like i said i think witherspoon can play in man i think he's a good athlete i don't think he's anywhere near the fluid athlete that gonzalez is though Gonzalez's hips, man. Like, did you see my tweet yesterday about the Sindarian elf? The Sindarian elf. That's Christian Gonzalez. He looks like Legolas when he's running around. Like he's like not even touching the surface of the ground.

He's just right on top of it. He just floats. He just lends. Yeah. It just looks like he's gliding. He's made for man coverage. Witherspoon, like I said, he's not a bad athlete. He can play in man, but like to really maximize him,

I want to activate that brain. those ball skills. Like his ability to understand angles and get his hands through the hands of receivers is unbelievable. Yeah. It's a skill you can't really teach. Something Gonzalez really struggles with too, even in man, like he's not great at body positioning and getting himself in position to make plays on the ball.

So you'll see a lot of reps in man, even, Steve, where he's got tight, really tight coverage. But the pass is completed. You know, with just an average throw because Gonzalez isn't in position to make a play on the ball. We've seen this. This is Jerry Jacobs and Jeff Akuta to a T, right? Right. Both these guys, they're tight coverage on every play, but they give up a lot downfield because they're not making plays on the ball.

They can't get their head around. So I think Gonzalez is a little bit more raw, too, than people are making it out to me. But I love both guys. They're both top 10 players for me. Gonzalez, I think they both can be functional in the other scheme. So I think Willersman can be functional, man. I think Gonzalez can be functional in zone, but I think they'll both be best doing the opposite of what they did in college. Yeah, and putting Gonzalez in man-to-man, it takes it a little bit.

It takes away the, you know, the mental processing of it. You just have to focus, like, in past plays, you just have to focus on your guy. Yep. And so, like, if you're able to maybe take away that decision-making and just say, you know, ball goes to your guy, make a play, like maybe taking away. some of the, you know, all the mental processing, having to figure out your zone, things like that. Yeah. It could help him, like you said, to become a more successful right away. There's not to say that it's not to say that like he won't develop those skills.

Oh, sure. Later. But immediate NFL impact, like take away some of that, take away some of that decision making some of that mental processing that he has to go through and just let him guard a guy. Yes. two other players I felt really strongly about this with recently Clemson athlete Isaiah Simmons I contended when he came out that this guy is a cornerback have him cut a little weight and play cornerback

do not try him at safety he doesn't have the mental processing for that do not put him on the edge because when you're on the line of scrimmage Steve everything happens faster yep when you're in the box, specifically as a box safety or a linebacker or whatever hybrid role he was going to play. So if you have bad processing, that's just only going to get worse the closer to the line of scrimmage you get. Well, guess what happened? Sure enough, they finally moved the guy to corner this year and he has his best year by far. A little bit of a breakout campaign.

It looks like we finally found the role for Isaiah Simmons. I called it before the guy was drafted. Will Harris, another one, Lions now slot corner. Yep. my biggest issue when he was coming out was same thing the closer he got to the line of scrimmage the worst he got his reps at boston college where he was playing like deep safety were a little bit better as he moved in closer played in the box or played even played some linebacker it got really murky it's not a physicality issue it's a processing issue right

so the day the lines drafted him i said this guy has the athletic makeup in physicality to be a cornerback. Like, let him go see ball, chase ball, see car, chase car. Yeah. And put him in man coverage. That's what he did this year for the lines. He played the first half of the year on the outside was probably their best corner over that stretch, then moved to the slot and played his best football in the NFL through

four years in the slot. So I have a good track record of calling this thing. So I think Gonzalez should definitely be more of a man corner. but anyways. Yeah, I like it. Ramp over. Next one for you. I think there will be more tight ends

taken in the first round than wide receivers. Whoa! Yeah. I'm not that sold on this receiver class as first round talent. I'm right there with you. One of mine that I was going to bring up next

was I think there might be three or four receivers drafted in the first round and no more. I think there might be three tight ends taken. I think that's a very real possibility or more. I think like there's a potential that a fourth could sneak in there. There's definitely four probably worth taking. It's just such a hard. That's hard.

If you wanted to sell me on not going to be a lot of receivers drafted, I'll fully get on board. The problem with the tight end thing is like, so who's dropping out of the first round? As far as receivers? Are positions go? Because to get four tight ends, yeah, you can trade one or two with receivers, but like there's other positions that are loaded as well. Like offensive tackle, for example. Like DeWan Jones, is he a first round pick to you? Yes, I think he is.

But my thing is that when it comes down to it, I think that the back, once you get past like 10 to 12, there isn't a lot of bona fide. like first round picks. I think that's been kind of echoed a little bit here, a little bit throughout the process. And it's more so that I think that there are difference makers at tight ends or at least guys that they think will be difference makers. And I think that could push them up over some of the corners that might go later in the draft or like later in the first round is, you know,

if you're making a decision, if you want a playmaker at tight end over a, you know, another corner. I think that's like, that's a position that could go interchangeable. I think that there's a lot of defensive backs and a lot of like pretty good defensive backs. And I think that they might, there might be a,

like there might be a prioritization of these athletic, you know, ball catching tight ends over potentially like another defensive back. It's possible. It is possible. I, I think drafts tend to, when you have like a really deep position group like corner or off actually I shouldn't say

offense I don't think offensive tackle is very deep corner or what was the other example I was going to give edge players yeah edge let's just stick with corners though you will see teams start to pass on those guys because the depth of the class yeah but tight end is also extremely deep so and it's not available position so that's my only concern and then you have other positions like tackle or a tiered defensive line where if you don't get a guy early you're not getting a guy like mazzi smith for example is a great example de-tackle from michigan you can't find guys that move like him his size they don't grow on trees i don't see a pathway where he's not a first-round pick so now you're talking about how many interior defensive line guys are going to go

you've got carter can'ty brise smith so that's four that's more than a normal draft probably. Yep. If you don't get one of those four guys, you're not getting a needle mover. Like Keanu Benton can play, but I don't think he's at those guys level. Yeah, exactly. Well, he's a very one-dimensional player. So I do think you can push the pocket a little bit as a pass rusher, but he's not giving

you a ton of upside there. So point being is like, I think teams will start to prioritize these positions. Like in my recent mock, Steve, I left out Anton Harrison, don't want. Jones and Darnell Wright. Darnell Wright was full disclosure an accident. He should have been in the first round. I just forgot. Right.

The other two, though, I wasn't going to put him in there. But the more I look at it, I'm like, I don't know how those guys aren't first round picks because after those guys, who are you drafting to play tackle in this draft class? It gets really sketch. You're not. In tight end, yeah. So maybe we pass on Michael Mayer in the first round because we can get Sam LaPorteur at pick 60. Which is fair.

Yeah. I just think that like if and that I mean obviously totally fair point. I it's such a weird. I feel like this is such a weird draft this year compared to like the past few in that there's so much. It's just all murky. Like I said, after like the top top 10, top 12 where I think a lot of teams are going to have a lot of guys graded very differently. And I just like I think I could see tight end being a position that gets

prioritized toward like the back end of the draft for some teams. Yeah. And listen, my opinion on on the receiver class and the tight end class is very similar to yours. I love this receiver class from a depth standpoint. I think you can find very good players like deep into the fourth round. Right. But there's not a lot of dogs in this class.

There might be two guys. I honestly think they have a clear pathway to being a wide receiver one in the NFL. And I mean, Jackson Smith and Jigbo and Quentin Johnston. Yeah. Everybody else is a crapshoot. Like, I don't think Zay is going to ever be that. I don't think Hyatt's ever going to be that. I don't think Josh, Josh Downs is never going to sniff wide receiver one status for a team.

Then you're getting into guys like Cedric Tillman, AT, Pair. Marvin Mims, maybe they can do it. Mims probably not, but those other two bigger guys, but the maybe is so large. You just don't like, I don't know. So I would say the framework is there for you to be correct because I don't think there's a lot of difference makers at receivers this year.

Right. And that combined. A lot of difference makers at tight ends. That combined with the continual raise in depth in the draft at receiver. Yes. I think a lot of teams are realized. that the college game is getting more advanced when it comes to receivers. Like guys are coming in a lot more ready.

And this year's a down year. And if you have a need at wide receiver, hey, maybe you can get by with what you have right now. And you can push that need off until next year and, you know, fill it with a stop gap right now. Whereas I feel like tight end, it's so hit and miss every year. and this feels like one of the more robust tight-end classes in a few years. That's one either for evaluated. And there's not even a guarantee. And that's definitely not a guarantee with the development of the tight-end position in college,

becoming a lot with college being more spread out, a lot of tight ends becoming less in-line guys, more athletes that you can use out of the slot, things like that. With a class of this deep, I feel like there might be a chance to say, okay, we can, we don't see this depth and this type of talent in the tight end class that often like let's take a run at it this year and then we'll you know push off a different need to a later round or we'll push off a different need until next year yeah yeah i can see it like i said i can see the framework for it to happen i probably wouldn't put my money on it but i could if if it happened i wouldn't be like shocked by any means so yeah um all right well let's stick on that train of thought my next my next hot take thing was Jackson Smith and Jigba is every bit as equipped to play on the outside

as he is in the slot yeah we started talking we started talking about this a little bit yeah because I was getting crazy feedback on my mock draft about the lines taking JSN because Amon Ra St. Brown is already there and I really do think I've said this probably now I've said this on the clock four times. I said it on John's radio show this morning on Sirius XM.

Stop with the J.S.N. stuff as a slot-only guy. Just please stop. Everyone is falling into this Justin Jefferson trap where Jefferson played next to some studs. Yes. And Teres Marshall being a six-four-guer. Like he was never going to be a slot guy for them. At least not more than a 50% snapshot. Right.

Choir Chase was a freaking maniac. on the outside. Right. Jefferson had to play somewhere. He played in the slot. And from what I've heard, he did it voluntarily as well to help the team. Yeah.

And by the way, he had a whole year of playing on the outside before that, and he was fine out there on the outside. People are following this Jefferson trap, though. They did the same thing with Justin Jefferson. People were projecting him as a late first, early second round pick.

Yep. Because he was a slot only guy. Yep. I didn't see it. He was a top 10 player for me in that draft class. Jackson Smith and Jigba is the same thing. thing for me. Like, somebody please tell me one reason he can't play on the outside.

Give me one. And if you cite 40 time, I'm going to smack you in the face. Because he ran a 4-4-6 to 4-48-40. Every good receiver in the NFL minus Tyree Hill that plays in the outside ran pretty much that exact 40. Stefan Diggs, A.J. Brown, Devante Adams, A.J. Green. Like, all, dude, the best receivers over the last five years. five to ten years of all ran 40s in that range.

So I don't want to hear it. That combined with other than like Tyree Kill and a couple others, how many straight up burners do we even see that are like highly successful in the NFL? Scott Barrett has actually done incredible research on this, Steve. 40 time actually negatively correlates with wide receiver's success. It's not the receiver's fault, by the way. No. But it's the NFL over-drafting speed.

Yes. Seeing guys like, I hate to use the Darius Hayward Bay example. That was the one that I was thinking of. That was the first one that came to my mind. Tyquan Thornton last year had no business being a top 60 player. Right. But he ran in the four-toos, so he gets drafted in the top 60. So 40-time actually negatively correlates with the NFL success at the receiver position, which is so freaking funny.

It's hilarious. We have so many combine Bible thumpers on Twitter. And it like, you shouldn't penalize someone like JSN or like we did with Justin Jefferson just because he played with really good teammates. Yes. Like just because he's playing with Marvin Harrison Jr. and Agri Buka and all those like all the guys that have gone. Garrett Wilson. Garrett Wilson. Chris Alavitt like all these guys that have gone through.

Yeah. he played two top 12 picks two top 12 picks that voluntarily said that that jSN is better than them that's true that could be a little bit of bro romancing but on purpose it could but i've heard you've heard it i feel like you've heard it echoed

over the last two years from everyone in that building though heart line has said it over and over that jay It just got the best to see where he's ever coached. Yeah, he just went on a podcast the other day and said that JSN was like number two out of the, I think number two or number three of all the receivers that he's coached at Ohio State, which is a murderers row of contributors in the NFL. Yes. Yeah, I mean, you're right, though.

You can't penalize a guy for playing in the slot when he played next to. Garrett Wilson and Chris Olavé. They both were drafted top 11. Yeah. And boy, JSN's freshman season, he had Jameson Williams on that team.

So he didn't get on the field much, but like, so he played with three guys that were all drafted in the top 12 because Jameson was a 12th pick last year. Yep. And then guess what? Marvin Harrison Jr. is going to be the number one receiver drafted next year,

probably in the top 10. Yeah. And the wide receiver coach at that program is telling you that JSN's, the best of the bunch. So I don't know. There's no reason the guy can't thrive on the outside. I would go so far to say,

I think he's not only the, he's the safest prospect in this class, like, of any position. And he probably, I think Quentin Johnson is a slightly higher ceiling just because he is just an athletic, you know,

I don't know, he's like a Marvel character. Yeah. He's made out of a lab. Yeah, he's made out of a lab. But, oh, I'm about to go on another rant there too. I've seen people complaining that Quentin Johnson is slow because he ran 448 or something. They've literally called him slow.

One scout had him at 451, I think. I'm telling you guys, 451 is not slow, especially not for his archetype of player. And we have Zebra technologies have come out repeatedly and said, you know, he was ran on 21.5, 21.7 miles an hour. last year in a TC uniform with pads on. There was only four ball carriers in the NFL this year who ran faster than Quentin Johnson did last year on the football field. So let's just... You also have to factor in size.

A 4-5 for a guy that's 6-3 is much different than a 4-5 for a guy that's 5-11. I mean, the speed still is the same, but yeah, I get what you're saying. Like, it's more impressive because he's bigger. Right. Yeah, I don't know. I think both both these two receivers at the top of the draft are getting miss misread. So the funny thing is is a lot of the guys that are throwing the shade on JSN, Steve, you know who they got you know who they love is Zay Flowers.

Who is even more of a slot only guy than JSN? I know. I know. It blows my mind. I love Zayflower, so don't get me wrong. I think Jay is great. I think Zay can probably play on the outside a little bit too. but I don't think he's going to play out there a ton,

but he's got reps on tape where he's winning out there. So no reason why you can't do that. But man, like how can you juxtapose those two things? You don't like JSN because he's slot only yet you love Zay Flowers. I don't. It just blow my seven-year-old weighs more than Zayflowers, man. Like, come on. I've weighed more than Zayflower since I was a sophomore in high school.

Yeah. Dude, my freshman year in high school football, I played at like 205. so holy cow i was a running back too nice that's impressive i love that yeah and a landbacker but imagine tackling a 205 pound running back as a freshman in high school oh i mean it's just an immediate advantage immediate advantage there all right my jsn slash q jrant is over so why don't you why don't you t us up for a one final take hot take make one one final hot take one one final hot take I think that Will McDonald makes us way into the first round. Okay.

Sell me. Let's go. I think that people are going to get, I think he tested really well. And I think that people are going to get enamored by that. I feel like Edge more than anything, the minute those testing numbers come out and you see a guy that's up in the like with the RAS, if they're like nine and a half and above, I feel like they immediately shoot up the board. And like Will McDonald, I feel like he's been kind of teetering. He's been moving up. and I feel like he might make a push because of his athleticism into the first round over a guy like Miles Murphy.

I think he could, I think Miles Murphy could drop and Will McDonald could go up. Shut your mouth right now. I don't like it. I don't agree with it, but I think that- Miles Murphy like that on my podcast. I think it could happen. I don't agree with it, but I just, I think that he might make a move up because of his elite athleticism. Wait, isn't Murphy like a 9-9-Raz or something?

Yeah, but I like, there's something about a guy that has that much like I feel like I don't know I just I just see will McDonnell making a push up I feel like I've heard his name more I feel like he's getting talked about more I think that he can make a push into the first round yeah I mean I do think NFL teams are probably more friendly to speed rushers that can win the edge um you know hit just rip rip rip a speed rush or a long arm and then dip and bend so I maybe I wouldn't say over Miles Murphy, but I think getting into the first round is possible. My biggest issue with McDonald is, I don't

think he's a guy who's going to win a ton of one-on-one reps right now. Like his pass rush win rate from my vantage point was not great. Yeah. You didn't have great competition either. So I don't know. That's the one thing that concerns me. I probably tend to agree with you, though.

I think he sneaks into the – I didn't mock him in the first round recently, but I think he probably does sneak into the first. But there's – to your point, about the super athletic guys, there is a bunch in that, I would say in that range, fringe first round guys.

Like, let's just go through a couple. Will McDonald, Felix and Aduke Azuma. Do you think he's a first round pick? I honestly have not done enough research on him to make a call on that. B.J. Ojilari. He's like this very similar player to McDonald.

Yeah. Eddie Tomiwa, Edobawaray, the Northwestern edge. Yep. That dude is a freak of nature. So, like, not all these guys obviously can go on the first. Right. And again, that's another, I think, like, edge rusher, going back to the point earlier, edge rusher is another position that could get pushed, potentially get pushed down for,

because it has, like, a good mid-tier depth. A bunch of dudes, yeah. A bunch of depth in the middle. or like, you know, late first, early second type of area, that that could elevate different positions. You know who actually Will McDonald reminds me a little bit? Who? Hassan Reddick. It's a pretty good.

It's a pretty good archetype. In the way they win somewhere, like, if you put McDonald on a team that's willing to scheme up pressure for him, like, Reddick's breakout this year, as good as it was, a lot of it was schemed up. You know, they very creative with them. Line them up in the B gap, line them up in the A gap here and there, get them on some twists, some stunts, some delays, get them, you know, elephant fronts to overload one side and get him isolated. If you're willing to do that with McDonald,

I think you can get similar production. My other big concern of the McDonald's real quick, developmental runway, he's already 24 years old or close to it. I think he's going to be 24 at the draft. Yeah. Where does it go from? He's pretty raw still. He really lacks play strength.

It's tough. Developmental upside might cap his ability to get drafted in the first round. I don't know, though. When I see, I mean, DJ's been mocking him in the first forever now. Lance has done it. So, I mean, when the top guys are doing it, you got to sit back and be objective about it and say, what am I? There's something I'm not seeing on tape that these guys are, but, yeah. If someone thinks they can get Hassan Redick production out of him, though, he will go in the first round.

So I'll grant you that. Like a Buffalo Bills could go that way. Bills wouldn't be a bad spot. And they have the, you know, they like to do big end, small end thing. They have the big end covered already. So Rousseau and who's the other? They drafted two. Eponessa, right?

They drafted three then. They have another one. Same draft as Rousseau. Epinza was the year before. Then they drafted Rousseau and somebody else. What? I got to look this up. I'm sorry, guys.

Buffalo depth chart He didn't play a lot last year said player Oh they still have Von Miller too by the way Yeah Boogie Basham It's Bush it was a first round pick Buggy Basham was the round later

Then they still have Epinessa from the draft before They got Vaughn Miller So McDonald would be great in the Devon Miller role I can develop him there Yeah I like that call I like it. I can see the Chiefs doing that too, by the way. Yep, that was another team that I looked at that, you know, back into the, like back into the draft guys, teams that are just looking to elevate a position that could be, you know, hey, let's get, let's get Von Miller's potential replacement in there, have him learn under Von Miller.

And then boom, once he's done, he takes over and we're off, we're back. We, you know, don't lose anything. Yeah, and the Chiefs too, I mean, had a similar player. and Frank Clark. So I think maybe they see the one-to-one replacement there potentially. Before we go, I have one question just because you've done so much research and you're in this, you're in the meat of it all. Every year there's a guy that inexplicably falls.

Yes. A top draft prospect for whatever reason. Who do you think that might be this year? Oh. I'm putting you on. on the spot here. But I've been, I've been thinking, I've been like thinking about that lately of like, all right, there's always that one guy, the one or two guys that like everybody has mocked in the top 15, but they inexplicably fall out. Who do you think that could be? I already got it.

Lucas Van Ness. Okay. Edd from Iowa. He's getting mocked in the top 15 in just about every mock right now. He has skyrocketed in the last like two weeks. Even my recent mock, I put him at 15, even though I don't really like him as a prospect. I like Miles Murphy, who's a similar archetype, way more, like exponentially more. But I think savvy teams are going to look at the Van Ness situation and think, well, he's not as good of an athlete as he tested. That's clear on tape. He didn't start a single game at Iowa.

think about that for one second. We're talking about a potential top 15 pick and he didn't start a single game. He was a role player at Iowa. Yeah, college football coaches do stupid things all the time. Shoot, NFL football coaches do. That's not the point. The fact that Iowa just never valued him

as more than a rotational, you know, role-specific player is alarming, especially because he's a big, man, he's 275 pounds. He's a powerful player. It's just weird to me, Steve. I can't get over that fact. I don't love his tape either.

Pass rush rent rate was not ideal for a guy you're projecting to be a top edge rusher. Do I think he can set the edge and be good against the run? Yeah, in the right scheme, I think he'd be very good at that stuff. I just don't see first round player. He doesn't, he didn't score as a first round player for me. So we're just so we're clear. Yeah. He just, he scored as a second round player.

I think there might be some developmental upside there. But if I had to pick a guy to fall compared to what his consensus rating is, it would be him for sure. I like it. I like it. I feel like wrapping up here, I think we're going to be more surprised by this draft overall. I think we're going to see a lot more surprises than we do in recent drafts. I feel like there's so much in the air. there's so many guys that one team could value way higher and another team could have like a two round

difference on them. I think there's a lot of guys that, you know, I think teams might jump up for because they see it. They see more of a scheme fit because there isn't that like overall insane player that it's like, just plug them and play them anywhere. There's like a lot more guys where it's like, okay, does he fit your scheme? Does he fit your team? Okay, we value him here. And then another team that, you know, looks at it and is like, well, we don't really do, we're not going to change what we do for them.

So like we have them, you know, much more much further down. I just think that overall, I'm excited. I'm really excited for this draft because I feel like it could go so many, it could go in so many different directions from the quarterback standpoint, from a, you know, receiver, tight end standpoint, from the cornerback standpoint. There's a lot of positions where there's a lot of guys that could really jockey around based on what. teams are where and what teams like a guy over another. Yeah, to tie a bow on that, Steve, I have 22 first round grades in this class. And that is higher from the guys I've talked to in the league, that's higher than everybody. And it's because I put positional value boosts in my scores.

I get a lot of extra, I get like one extra corner and one extra receiver every year. Yes. I have Hendon Hooker in there too. So I've talked. to team people, Steve, who have 14 to 16 first round grades? And that's what I've seen that floating around too.

Some teams 16 to 18. And then here's the crazy thing though. So what that means is the back half of the first round is going to be an absolute free for all. Because after your first round grades, it's not like every team's working off of a consensus board post on ESPN.

Everyone's board is going to look dramatically different. Right. to see things you never thought was going to happen because teams will inevitably draft for need and the number one player at a position of need might be the six best available guy on your board because you're not you're not you're not creating a vertical board based on team specific ideas yeah so names i've heard that are going to go in the first round that i've never mocked in the first round Anton Harrison um jimier gibbs i've heard is going to go in the first round so yeah you start to be extra guys in there. Well, somebody has to make it, you know, someone's getting bumped out. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's going to be a lot of craziness in the back. I'm actually really excited. We're doing that the fantasy points live stream. It's going to be me, Scott, and I believe Joe Dolan. I'm not sure yet. But I feel like I'm just going to be like this the whole time. Yeah. But you know the Joe Rogan meme? Like yeah. And that's why that's why I really think about like that trade thing is that like that back.

half could you could see people shooting and dropping up and down the board left and right because you know it's we prioritize this player we want him and we don't have any all of our like and then there's like going to be teams that are going to say all of our guys are gone yeah what did dan campbell say i don't know why he says things like this in the media they have six players in the entire draft they like he said something to that effect yeah dan why are you saying man he said six six players that are truly fits on the team is what he said truly yeah plug him in right away did you keep but a lot of teams are going to feel that way um and savvy team steve like to your point are they're going to try to move out of the first round because if they view the draft like

i do where yeah you might only have 16 18 first round picks but that next tier is freaking 40 to 50 deep yep so why would we take a why would we take a player at 17 for example the we probably can get similar quality at 39, 40, 45. So I think you will see a lot of savvy teams trying to move out and then more desperate teams or more win now teams might try to sneak up back in the first to get guys they specifically really like. So yeah, anyways, that is going to do it for episode 50 of the TikTok podcast. Please follow us on Twitter.

I am at BG Whitefield. This is at call me Stivo 7. After 50 episodes, I get that without having to ask you. Yeah, nailed it. Call me, Steve-O-7. All right, that's going to do it for us. Thank you so much for listening. Next week, we will be doing the giveaway for episode 50.

Appreciate you guys. We are. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform. And come join the roster at FantasyPoint.com.