Fantasy Football Daily - NFL First Read | Defensive All-Rookie Picks + AFC West Breakdown

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino to dive into the Defensive All-Rookie Picks and get into their full AFC West breakdown. Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First read. We are your first read. The film and analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of Lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the CEO of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. Let's get after it. Joe, my man, you are dealing with some heat down south. Oh, it's, brother, it is cooking. It's not raining. It's hot. It's humid. But, you know, the air conditioning inside is just right. Dude, I got to run something by you. We haven't talked about this at all. I cannot get enough of this off-season hard knocks with the Giants. Have you been watching this at all?

No, and I feel bad about this. I need to catch up and dive in. I've had some other stuff going on at night that's prevented me from doing so, but we'll get locked in and watch it. Brett, there's not anything in my life that is appointment TV outside of live football games. I cannot wait for this. I mean, it's such rare content, but just to see the way that they need. navigate free agency, the draft, the conversations.

Like we are getting unbelievable access. Now, I'm sure that it won't ever happen again. So I can enjoy this season. Yeah. But man, offseason hard knocks is the cat's pajamas. So I've seen some of the clips that have obviously gone viral. It's, am I wrong in thinking there's a level of transparency and behind the curtain that hasn't really happened in Hard Knocks before?

I would, in a long time, right? I think that's the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Training Camp Hard Knocks still has a lot of glamour to it, but I think it's lost its sizzle a bit because you could tell things are starting to get a little bit more muted, right? You're not getting the same level of access and really, really unique behind the scene stuff. I felt like the gloves are off for this, man.

I can't believe the conversations we're getting. I mean, I honestly haven't watched regular Hard Knocks in a long time. This is gripping. And maybe it's because I love team building, roster construction, and all that type of stuff, and you're getting, like, such a unique look at all of that, but boy,

oh boy, am I having fun. I'm some, some of the clips I've seen, Joe, I'm, like, legit surprise that they made it to final cut. Like,

it kind of makes the Giants look not awesome. I'd agree with that. I wouldn't say it's like, just paints them as dysfunctional or anything, but it's kind of like, whoa, they're kind of all over the place, but.

Yeah, I don't want to get, like, we could talk all day about their decisions, what they were dealing with, but buying a little time. I know that, as a father of four, you know, it's tough to find a few extra minutes.

But if you, if you get them, you get them, watch, watch that hard night. It's a Sunday night affair, right? Tuesday nights. Tuesday nights. So, episode, we've, we're three episodes into this thing. So you could, you can binge three and then, you know, get caught up. I don't know how many episodes it'll be, maybe just one or two more, but. Okay.

It's good. Well, sweet. Yeah, I'll check that out for sure. But today, Joe, we are, we're doing the, we're finishing the rookie, uh, what are we calling it the all rookie team preview doing the defensive side today we did offense last week make sure you go to the youtube channel fantasy points youtube subscribe notification bell do all that good stuff but check out last week's episode it was great excited for this one man i think there's going to be some good variance between our two perspective teams i think so too i can i can already

hear you telling me to say nice things about certain people or about certain teams if we're as we get into debates. I can hear this. I've heard your, the whole time I was making my list, I can hear your voice in the background. All right, say three nice things. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I might, I might make you do that. That might be a thing here. It might be. How do you want to start? You want to start D-line? Yeah, let's do like that. Let's do edge rushers, into your defensive line, line, linebackers, corners and safeties. That's exactly how I wrote my list. Yeah, exactly how I wrote it. So would you like to have my, you want me to go with my edge rushers? Oh, sure, yeah. Or go, go one, do one first. Jared verse.

Jared verse was the, like, I had to get him on there. Rams, opportunities right there to play a ton of snaps. I just think there's an NFL readiness from Jared verse in terms of like, he wins with power and, like, run defense, being able to shave the edges with, with his ability to, like, compress the width of the pocket. I think his skill set is very, very translatable. And I really like how good of a job that Rams. have done. I know there's a different coaching staff on the defensive side of the football in some

places, but they've done a good job of getting production out of young players. We haven't seen them make a first round pick in a decade, I'm pretty sure. Jared Verse, you know, is going to be a lot ride in there, and I think he's going to get an early opportunity and produce. I agree. They have literally no one else. I mean, you know, Michael Hoyt, Brennan Jackson. I mean, these are guys he's going to play over, obviously. I think another thing that's interesting, too, Joe, is, I think you and I've had this discussion before, but a few years ago, I went back, and I I evaluated all of the edge rushers of the NFL, what was successful, where people were having success.

And then furthermore, what rookies tend to make a bigger impact, what playstiles? And it's Jared versus playstyle, those super heavy hands. He's got ridiculous punch. He can power rush. He's got a good long arm technique and some counters off of that. I think that style of pass rusher usually hits the NFL, you know, running, where sometimes the speed more finesse rushers,

it does take some time. They have to kind of get their timing down and figure out how to beat better offensive tackles where I think verse steps in right away and he's he's impactful. So I love this. He was also my top edge defender. All right. So we both agree on Leitou Latu. We'll see if we have. No, that was Jerry Tars. Well, there's the spoiler. My pick is Leitu Lott. You know what I mean? I was thinking about saying my next guy. So there it is. Leitu Latu is my other pick. Come on, we've all done this before, right? Yeah, it was a nice job by me there.

Laytu Latu. Colts, a little concerned with the rotation because I'm sure Samson Ebukom and Quitty Pay are going to get plenty of run there. And Deo Adeni Yagbo kind of took a step forward. They got Tycho on Lewis as well. A lot of players, but you just get the sense with a guy like Leitu and you know, you saw a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff from their YouTube channel with the excitement that they had for bringing him in. But I think there's a lot of NFL ready to lay two. I think just the different ways that he can. can beat blocks. He's going to get on the field. And I think he's going to make a lot of splash plays behind the line of scrimmage. So I think there's other contenders here, but I had to go late

too. Yeah, I fully agree with what lay two. I mean, he can win in pretty much any way. And I think I tweeted this during the draft process, but I don't remember an edge rusher in the last, you know, nine classes, which is what I've evaluated that was as developed as a pass rusher as layout to, lay two, late two. So very excited to see what he does. I know they, they do they are returning quitty pay and same to ecuobam as you mentioned but they were one of the you know not great pass rush units in the league last year 31.9% pressure rate and that's uh they had a bad pressure rate over expectation as well so i think even though those those guys are solid players and it's not all on them why that pressure rate was bad there's perfectly there's a perfect reason why

you'd want to upgrade and get lot to on the field i thought he was the best player in the draft actually oh wow you know who i i don't know that it's a one for one comparison but like you kind of talked about the polish i had some aiden hutchinson vibes when i watched him just because of like the motor and the continuous throwing counters like never like never content being blocked yeah i would say lot who's even bendier than hutch you know hutch is cool little stiff so yeah we not a lot of debate here going on no no no i think maybe it gets interesting after this though those were the two clear guys for me as far as opportunity goes and opportunity is a big part of the equation.

So yes. I'll throw my first interior guy. I'm going back to the Ramswell and Braden Fisk. It's a huge Braden Fiske guy. I said on every podcast leading up to the draft that if you wanted a poor man's Aaron Donald in this draft, it's Brayden Fisk. If you wanted to find that quick hitting, you know, speed rusher from three technique, get Braden Fisk.

He's lightning fast. His get off is ridiculous. And sure enough, the Rams go ahead and draft him to actually replace. Aaron Donald. So I think that's kind of funny. So Britain Fisk, my guy here. I'm nervous about him. I recognize the athleticism. He's explosive. I love the urgency that he plays with. He just doesn't have any length, right? Like 31 inch arms, 75 and 3 quarter inch wingspan. That's the fifth and third percentile for wingspan and arm length among defensive tackles in the league. And I thought it showed up on tape at Florida State. I thought he was a guy that really had to

work overtime to clear contact. And I get nervous about how that translates to the NFL, especially because defensive tackles tend to be a little bit slow developing. And I think there's going to be a lot of learning that he's going to have to embrace because the way that he was able to make plays at Florida State are going to be a little bit different than what's going to happen with the Rams. So like, I get the pick, but nervous is the word that I have for Fiske, especially early on in his career. When you mentioned length, the thing that jumps out to me is, I didn't see it a ton as a pass rusher, to be honest with you. I thought he won with that quick first step.

He had a lot of good moves off of that, too, a couple, like a club rip and a hump move that I thought were really effective. But in the run game, he definitely got washed out at times bad. Like, yeah, being able to stack and get off those blocks was an issue with the length. When I'm thinking of defensive linemen, my head automatically goes to I value pass rush more than run defense. That's probably the analytics in me, the data-driven stuff. So I think I have him on the list just because I think he's a guy who could, you know, show up and get eight, nine sacks as a rookie defensive tackle. And what's crazy is obviously Aaron Donald's a big outlier,

but we've seen this archetype become more prevalent in the NFL and more effective. Colaja can't see an example last year, I believe he actually had the same exact length that she's as well, like fifth percentile, you know, length and wingspan there. So I think there's enough recent success with these guys that makes me feel pretty good about his situation. Oh, Kobe Turner's another one, who he's going to be playing next to. A lot of young players on that Rams defense. All right, the defensive, interior defensive line that I had to have was Byron Murphy with the Seattle Seahawks, partly because I love Byron Murphy, and I think he checks every box, and I think he's an ascending player, like, you know, not a ton of

production beyond this past season at Texas, if I'm not mistaken, but like super translatable skill set. But then I love the idea of him in Seattle under Mike McDonnell. They bring over the Cowboys Defensive Line Coach. I think he's going to make a ton of plays, man. And I think he's an answer to what they need. And he's playing alongside some good players. He's going to play next to Leonard Williams. They've got some other size players there with like a Geron Reed and John Hankins. I think he's going to fit right in and be an impact playmaker. And I just think the blend of talent, opportunity scheme and coaching is going to unlock a ton for Byron Murphy as a rookie. I love Byron Murphy. He did not make my list, though, strictly because everything you said was correct, but strictly because it is crowded.

Like they have a very good defensive line. They're deep. He's going to be in a very thick rotation with Leonard Williams, Geron Reade. Dremont Jones is going to play some three tech for them. Jonathan Hankins is a really solid backup nose. So I don't see Byron Murphy getting any reps that nose. And then he's got to deal with Leonard Williams and Draymont Jones at three technique to get on the field for passing downs. I just think that maybe as a rookie, it's not quite time for him yet. Maybe later in the season he comes on and passes some guys up, but I think they're just too solid. Who's your other guy? I already know you're not going to like this.

So Mike Hull Jr., Cleveland Browns. Oh, no, I love it. He was on my shortlist. I didn't pick him, but he was on my short list. I just think if we're looking at opportunity, he's going to be playing next to Miles Garrett, Dalvin Tomlinson, and Zarius Smith. Zedarius Smith.

Sorry, thank you. He's going to have favorable matchups when he's on the field. there's not really anyone in his way to, you know, his path to winning that three tech job either. Shelby Harris. Shelby Harris was okay last year, but he's, he's at the age where he's on a really limited snap count. He was healthy the entire season and only played like 400 snaps. So I think, you know, you put my call on the field for the other 600 snaps, and that's definitely enough opportunity for him to get an all rookie list here.

So especially with his, the way he wins, his passers ability, I just feel like that it just goes so well with what the Browns do. and they're attacking defensive front. So big, big fan of this. Yeah, he was my first guy that I didn't include. So I love part of it, I just like Mike Hall as a player, man. I thought he was super underrated with his tape at Ohio State. And he's going to make a ton of place for the Brown. So great pick, not the pick I went with.

I did keep it in the AFC North. I went with Chris Jenkins, Jr. out of Michigan. I had a ton of love for his tape. And I think he goes to this Bengals defensive line where, I mean, you would talk about opportunity. I think it's right there for him. Obviously, B.J. Hill and Sheldon Rankins are your assumed starters. But I think they've wanted to get more from this defensive tackle depth in recent years,

whether it's been like Zach Carter as a third round pick, who I think is not very good. Or they've had other young players that they've tried to like work into this mix and the reserve capacity. And they just really haven't panned out. I think Chris Jenkins can play the one. He can play the three. He'll get on the field. And I just love that.

I loved how much better Jenkins got throughout the course of his career at Michigan. I thought he peaked with that playoff run. And I think that'll translate right over to Cincinnati, and he'll be a force for that unit up front. Yeah, what's interesting about Jenkins is I felt like he actually disappointed a lot of Michigan fans last year. He actually kind of found himself as the third man and a three-man rotation at times. But then, like you said, during that playoff run, he did come back on and kind of reassert himself.

He was on the fast track, though, to be in like a top 20 pick. I think going into that year and then just didn't really take that next step, at least from the eyes of the fans. So I think obviously the NFL felt the same way. I love the situation. He was almost my pick. The only thing that kept me off of him was Sheldon Rankins. They paid him a little bit of money, $8 million, I think, $9 million.

And he's been like a $700 snap guy for the last three or four years. So, you know, does that mean that he's going to be a 700 snap guy for Cincinnati? Not necessarily. I think Jenkins comes in and competes. He's obviously a good player. So not really sure. It is interesting. They double-taps detackle, right?

Then they go detackle in the third round as well. Yeah, with McKinley Jackson. Yeah. They've been trying to get this figured out. Yeah. And they've been throwing some resources at it. And obviously didn't have the money to, well, they did have the money to pay DJ the reader.

They just don't pay people. So. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great pick, though. I like it. I'd be very surprised if that linebacker, we didn't have the same two players. Really? Yeah.

Okay. I'm just going to be totally transparent. The first guy was easy for me. Really, really easy. Junior Colson? Junior Colson. Right. It was easy. Going to start with the defensive coordinator is the same one he had at Michigan. Yep. He's a horrible boy.

Yeah, like what a benefit that is to Junior Colson to be able to step in and everything from a terminology perspective is right there. Plus, I mean, just a very obvious opportunity to start. My concern is what's in front of him at D tackle for the Chargers. We're going to talk AFC West today on this episode later on, but I think I think he's going to step right in. Joe, if we're talking all rookie teams, though, that could help him, because his tackle numbers could be 150 at least. Yeah.

He's such a natural born leader, though. I knew Harbaugh was going to go with either Mikey Sandrusill or Junior Colson at some point in the draft because he needed that vocal leader to take over that defense. I will say they brought in Puna Ford from Buffalo. I mean, how did he play for Buffalo last year? He didn't. He didn't. He didn't play, right?

Like he was healthy all year. He's inactive most weeks. And they lost Dayquan Jones for a good, healthy part of the season whenever he tore his peck. They wound up like signing Linval Joseph off the street and he out snapped Puna. And I thought Puna when he played it, particularly against Chargers, well, which makes sense for him to be on the Chargers. Like that's the, that's the redeeming player there.

But I just thought it was extremely strange that he couldn't get snaps over like Jordan Phillips or Tim Settle or Linvald Joseph last year on a rotation front. You know, the bills rotate a ton. So yeah, that is strange. Well, that's definitely a fair concern, but I do think it helps boost his tackle numbers up a little. Right. The second, so finding the second linebacker was insanely hard for me. Correct.

And I think the guy you picked is probably someone I really don't. Right, you don't like the player I picked. I know that already. Yeah, okay. So he was on my short list just because I do think he's got opportunity, but I went with a totally, this was hard for me, though. I, like, labored over this pick. So I guess I'll just throw mine out.

I end up going Tommy Eckenberg with the Raiders. Eichenberg, sorry, Eckenberg. How's he getting on the field? They like Diablo, right? Diablo's fine. I think he probably has to play the will there. They're going to play three backer. Like Spillane was a dude for them. He's more of a culture guy than a player, though, right?

I mean. I think they love him. Really? Yeah. I mean, I like the unique pick. I just don't know. I mean, if he plays 100 snaps on defense, I think I'd be surprised. Yeah, like Diablo is so athletic.

I think you could see him playing, you know, play he i gets you could see him playing over the tight end and then ikenberg playing the other spot i just like when i watch spleen tape i see a culture guy he obviously is a leader on that defense he's hype all the time but he's he left a lot of plays in the field though i mean i i don't think he's a very good player so reminds me a little bit of alex an zolone like when the detroit brought him in like we need that culture guy they love him but like jack campbell's probably going to be a better player when you know when he develops so yeah the other one i considered was was uh maris la lay afu in Dallas.

I think he might start over Demone Clark by the time the year's over. All right. So I had a player I picked in a player I thought about. The player I wound up picking his Edgrian Cooper with the Packers, which we all know, Brett Whitefield thinks he stinks. But obviously he's going to probably step right in and be the starter next to Quay Walker. I think what is Isaiah McDuffie is the only competition. And that's not nothing, right?

McDuffie was with Jeff Halfley with Boston College. So there's something there to be mindful of it. I kind of like McDuffie, but I think they wanted to shore up the middle of that field in terms of coverage. And I know that maybe you don't think favorably of Cooper in that capacity, but athletically, that's what you would think he'd be able to do. So I think he's part of this effort between signing Xavier McKinney and bringing in Edge Cooper to give them more speed, versatility range in the spine of that defense.

So I went with him because I think the opportunity is clear. The guy that I probably in my heart really wanted to pick was Peyton Wilson with the Steelers. I mean, they signed Patrick Queen, but is, is he Landon Roberts really going to play over a, over, over a healthy Peyton Wilson? That'd be tough for me to accept. Maybe Steelers see that differently and certainly Cole Holcomb's still in the mix there. But I feel like Peyton Wilson is clearly their second best option outside of Patrick Queen. It's just a matter if he's going to get that opportunity. Agree with you on Wilson, I had the same exact thought process.

Let me talk Cooper for a second because I don't want, I don't want people to think I think Cooper stinks. I don't think he stinks. I just think he's a developmental guy. What I, like, I'm just reading my notes on him when I wrote him up for my prospect guide, which you can find on FantasyPoint.com. Athleticism and length make up for deep coverage toolbox. And that's really the selling point for me on Cooper is I think he could develop into a cover specialist linebacker or a pass-down specialist.

He's an excellent blitzer as well. When you talk about fitting the run and just handling basic coverage assignments, there's MAs all over the place. Quay Walker might have the most MAs in the Patrick Queen's probably first, actually. Patrick Queen, Devin White, Quay Walker, they're all cut from the same cloth. So I look at this Green Bay Packers linebacking unit,

and I'm like, oh my gosh, so much potential, huge athleticism across the board, you know, click and close potential if they can get the click down, excellent blitzers, move pieces. But these guys, I mean, they don't do basic things that linebackers are asked to do, snap in and snap out.

That could be a rough start for those guys in the middle of that defense. So I do like Cooper's potential down the road. I just, I wouldn't have drafted him to start him day one, if that makes sense. I would much rather roll with with McDuffie for this season as Cooper and then use Cooper in spots, you know, as as a third down player, blitzer, extra linebacker on the field and other situations. But I just don't think this is the year for him personally. All right, time to get to the back seven here. Yes. The secondary, excuse me, not the back seven.

I kind of blew through these. I like, I thought they were slam dunks on all. five so oh me too so it'll be interesting to see if we have carryover all right do we want to go outside corner first or no okay yeah yeah i went uh tearing arnold detroit opportunities obviously huge he's going to be a starter from day one i don't think there's even going to be a competition really and he's good and he's freaking good yeah right i think that matters a ton fits their scheme in what they're trying to do fits the culture the mentality i mean we've broken down this pick when we when we covered the Lions. It's just a great fit all the way around. Ball skills, too. He's got great ball skills. I think his playmaker index or his forcing completion rate was like 27% or something last year,

which is nuts. So I think, I think he fits in well with the Lions. Yeah, he's, he's my pick, one of my picks for Outside Corner as well. And like you said, talent, opportunity, fit. It's all very good. I think Detroit's probably a little surprised they could get him, right? They had like a very modest trade up to go get him. But like the way that the offensive players went off the board, I think that was such a benefit to a team like Detroit that was able to make a modest jump up and get a guy that you feel like, I mean, certainly if not the best, the second best corner in the class. I think Brad Holmes is on record saying that Arnold was their second highest graded defensive player in the draft. And the first was a defensive lineman. He hasn't said what defensive

lineman. But so best, you know, to him, best corner in the class. you know top 10 type of talent so the other corner i went with quinion mitchell philadelphia and i this kind of feels cheating because they're the two highest drafted corners in the draft but they both just landed in slam dunk spots quinion mitchell for me obviously he's great as well a little untested coming from toledledo did go to the senior bowl and absolutely bawled out all week there but what i really love about this fit he's going to a team with a really good defensive line and a really good pass rush that could really protect him that's desperate for an alpha type corner who's going to go out there, you know, perfect for their zone style defense too, the way they play,

they like to play off coverage and that match mirror technique versus more press man type stuff. I think Mitchell could do press man, but he's really good in that off zone type stuff. So it's just a really good scheme fit. Plus he's got the D line in front of him. I think, you know, high interception total could easily land him on this list alone, let alone, you know, great coverage numbers across the board. Yeah, Quinion Mitchell's my other pick. I thought about Kamari Lasseter, though, with Houston.

Dude, who's starting opposite of Sting? We're going to really go into like C.J. Henderson or Jeff Akuta? No, it's going to be. No, it's got to be Kamari Lasseter. So again, structurally pretty good defense, a defense that's corner friendly. So you could see it with Kamari Lasseter. But I thought, you know, Quinion Mitchell was a top 10 player in the class for me. And he goes to Philly.

It's, I had to pick him. For the record, too, Mitchell was my CB1. one in the class. Arnold was my CB2. Yeah, same here. I loved both players, though. Slot? Oh, sorry. No, it was Nickel Corner, Slot Corner. I went with the only obvious choice to me, Mikey Sandhurstil, Washington. So wait, what do I know? What's with the pronunciation here? Is he Mikey? Is that just like, if you know him as a buddy, you call him that? Is that how you pronounce his name? He was, when he was at Michigan, he was called Mikey. Mikey Sanders. But he's going, I mean, it's Mike Sanders still. I just want to make sure I was part of the cool club. I wanted to, to

begin on that so yeah i we already invoked his name too once in the harbaugh discussion but this this guy's a freaking dog there isn't anything he can't do he could play outside corner even too if they wanted him to um he's just so versatile and so good in the slot as a you know run defender as a blitzer uh he can play man he can play zone he can you know they can rock and roll safeties he can drop back into a deep half like he is just impressive across the board he's only been playing defensive back for two years joe oh yeah that's the other thing it's just he's a baller man I have Sammer still as my slot corner as well. What's interesting about Washington is are we are we flushing our 20,

23 draft down the, down the drain already with, with Juan Martin and Emmanuel Forbes? Like, is there a path for either player under Dan Quinn and Adam Peters? Like, oh, that's tough pill to swallow. If I'm, if I'm a team looking to get some DB talent, I might call them up and see if they'll pawn them off. But yeah, Mike Samer still is going to be a thing for that,

commanders right away. Yep. Safety. I'll give, I'll give you my, my safeties. I have, well, you think we have the same ones? I think so. Javon Bullard, Packers? Javon Bullard is on my list. Oh, wow. Congrats. You did, you put a packer on there. I was nervous that we, that we would get here. Get a chance to play alongside Xavier McKinney. Yeah. In John Nixon. Yeah, yeah. So that'll be helpful. I really enjoyed watching him at Georgia. I think there's some versatility. He's physical. I can play the ball. And the opportunities right there as they've kind of remade their safety room with Jeff Halfley moving forward.

So I think Javon Bullard was an obvious choice. It sounds like he was yours as well. Yeah, yeah, super obvious. I mentioned Nixon for the, just the angle of they now have three guys, nickel and two safeties that are kind of all move pieces that can all play deep safety, slot, box, whatever. And I think that when you see defenses that are good at doing that, it protects the players because it keeps the offense on their toes.

to keep some guessing. You don't know what the coverages are going to be. You know, you can move those guys around post-knap pretty easily. And so, and Bullard did a lot of that at Georgia. Obviously, McKinney's, you know, played in the most exotic defense in the league and coming from the Giants. So I think this is just a great fit all the way around. You know, the Packers are really bad at the middle of the field last year. I think Bullard and McKinney obviously should help with that quite a bit. The other safety, Tyler Nubin from the Giants?

I didn't go Nubin. Sorry. Oh, well, let me discuss Tyler Nubin from the Giants. of Minnesota gopher. The reason I picked him is obviously I think he's going to start. I mean, in some ways, I think you look at the giant secondary and it's kind of an unserious situation. And maybe that's why you didn't pick Tyler Nubin is like, you're kind of concerned about what's around him.

But what gives me confidence is, number one, who I think Tyler Nubin is as a player, but also Shane Bowen taking over as a defensive coordinator. And I thought at Tennessee, they did such a good job with developing safeties and like even playing like three safeties at a time and getting production out of them. And I think he'll be able to step right in and compliment what they've built with the pass rush. You know, they've certainly traded for Brian Burns.

Dexter Lawrence is a stud. Kvon, Dibodeau. And I think hopefully those guys can be disruptive and get some, get some sloppy throws in the air because I think a guy like Tyler Nubin is going to feast on that. So I'm high on Tyler Nubin. The opportunity is clear. and I like him with Shane Bowen. Yeah, I like that fit.

I definitely thought about him, but ultimately I kept getting stuck on the fact that in that defense, he's going to be asked to play some man coverage against tight ends, athletic tight ends, potentially play over the slot a little bit, obviously not in the full-time capacity, but he will be asked to do it a little bit. He's just a little stiff in the hips.

I just think coverage-wise, you want him off the ball a little bit more than I think he's going to be deployed. That's my only concern. Now, the other thing, though, is their other safety, Jason Pinock is not very good. And so maybe Noobin is just kind of the overall move piece where they just, you know, play him in favorable situations all day because he can do some of that stuff.

I also get stuck on the combine too. Combine was really bad. It was rough. Yeah. It was disappointing. Yeah. My other guy. I think, I think like people are going to think you're paying me.

You're going to pick Cole Bishop, aren't you? I can Cole Bishop. People are going to think you're paying me because I'm the one touting all the bills guys last week. Is he going to play? Who's playing over him? Taylor Rap and Mike Edwards. I have him starting.

It's totally possible. It's an absolute wild card. If he does start, lock him in. I don't know if he's going to start. I kind of view the, so if you think about in terms of box safety and deep safety, I feel like Mike Edwards and Taylor Rap are very similar. Taylor Rap's even more like dime linebackery to me where I feel like Cole Bishop is the only guy they have that can truly play deep safety.

Now, I know they play a lot of split coverages, so they're, you know, they are playing too high safeties quite a bit. So both safeties on the field will have to play that role. But I just, Cole Bishop is so much more talented than both those guys. I just can't. Well, yeah. I just can't see how he doesn't get on the field. So I have him starting.

I feel like that'd be a massive disappointment if he didn't start. I get he's got to go earn it still. But the talent there, though, just speaks for itself in my opinion. And I just, the way Sean McDermott plays his defenses, the coverage schemes, it's been a safety heavy defense for what, going on seven years, which you can do when you have Jordan Porter and Micahide, right? Exactly. And I feel like they drafted Colbishop to carry the torch of the strong safety play.

They funnel everything back to those guys, let them make plays, be ballers. And that's what Cole Bishop does. So I'm, I, dude, I agree with what you're saying here. But like, I think of Cole Bishop as a player whose best moments came as a lower safety, not being an enforcer, filling from some depth, but also just aligning in the box and closer of the line of scrimmage. And I think my concern here with all this is, I feel like that's what Taylor Rap does as well. And Sean McDermas come out and said that the safety room is, it's Taylor Rap's room. And they signed them to a three-year extension. Like, that's the guy

that's going to start. And so does he compliment Taylor Rap better than Mike Edwards? I think pretty highly of Mike Edwards. But, you know, he's kind of been a third safety for his career. And this is the second round pick. It's a pretty sizable investment for a McDermott, who's, whether it's been like Mike Mitchell or, uh, Quentin Michael or Micah Hyden, Jordan Poir, like he's always been able to kind of get big time production out of lower investments. So I, this is a big deal for him to pick a safety in the second round. It's kind of his position. But I just wonder. I just wonder if, if he's, if he's a complimentary, a number of enough player to Taylor Rap for him to really make that type of impact.

So everything you just said is true for both Jordan Poyer and Micahide, though. Their best play is closer to line of scrimmage. You would say that my thing, Mikeahide's a deep ball defender, right? He started his career as a slot corner in green. He did, but I thought his best ball came when he was defending deeper zones. I think he's-poir was the enforcer type player. Those guys were very interchangeable. That's what I'm getting at.

I think they're both good at all of it. Obviously, Poyer might be better at near the line of scrimmage than hide. vice versa. I just think Bishop slides right into that archetype. It's like, yeah, I don't necessarily disagree that his best ball is up near the line of scrimmage, fit in the run, covering tight ends, but I also think he's really good as a deep safety. I feel like he has really good instincts, and that usually bodes well for a deep safety. So, and we've already established the way they deploy those defenses, they're going to be asked to do at all. So it doesn't really matter. But if he starts, I think he's a lock. I'd agree with you. If he starts, he's a lock. If he doesn't, what's the role,

right? Is it meaningful enough to stiff arm some of the other options that are out there? When you're flying Emirates business class, relaxing in an exclusive airport lounge, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates, fly better. This Giving Tuesday, Cam H is counting on your support. Together, we can forge a better path for mental health by creating a future where Canadian can get the help they need when they need it, no matter who or where they are. From November 25th to December 2nd, your donation will be doubled.

That means every dollar goes twice as far to help build a future where no one's seeking help is left behind. Donate today at camh.ca slash giving Tuesday. All right, Brett Whitefield, it's time for our final divisional preview, the AFC West. and I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there's a team in this division that has won three of the last five Super Bowls, including the last two,

and it's the Kansas City Chiefs. And such a fascinating team in so many different ways where once again, they send off a premier player, but the outlook's the same, right? Legerius Smeat's need a big-time corner no longer in the mix, but I still think that this team,

probably the best in football when you factor in coaching, when you factor in talent. I mean, I'll come out and say it. I think it's, I think it's everybody else trying to prevent Kansas City from winning a third straight Super Bowl. Yeah. Got no issues with that. And I think their additions in the offseason are probably more significant than their losses, as much as I love legurious need.

So I think the biggest thing that they did this offseason was they got speed at wide receiver. And I'm sure that you can pull some data here about Patrick Mohomes and the deep ball last year, right? His deep, the results of his throws 20 yards or more down the field were very, very poor. I think, like, towards the very bottom of the NFL. And adding speed merchants in Xavier Worthy and Hollywood Brown is going to affect their spacing a ton. So not only they can be able to work the ball down the field, but I mean, Xavier Worthy, is really dynamic with the ball in his hands and was a volume player for Texas.

And so you think about that combined with what Kelsey gives them. And we'll see what happens with the rest of their wide receivers. I think there's plenty of question marks. But you can see how they want to evolve things here. And it's bringing back the deep ball for Patrick Mahomes. I agree. Patrick Mahomes led the NFL in yards after catch, like reliance. 63% of his yards came after the catch last year.

and his deep ball throw rate was like 10.7%, which was 23rd in the league among 39 qualifying quarterback. So like not what you'd expect from Patrick Mahomes. It was all short passing. I mean, the whole passing offense was short passing. I mean, you mentioned speed. They had, so what's crazy is they had fast guys last year

in Martez-Veldes Scantling, and then they have Justin Watson, who's also a burner. But those guys aren't good football players. They're just fast. now they have fast guys that are good and Xavier Worthy and Hollywood Brown and I just think it opens the door for Mahomes

on a lot of levels. They couldn't beat man coverage last year, not that anyone really plays a ton of man against Patrick Mahomes, but it just gives them options. They have guys that can legit win in the route phase and not just after the catch and I think that's very important. I guess if there's something to be concerned about with this

offense, it's probably the tackles where I think Joanne Taylor has been a flop of a contract and then Juanier Morris versus Kingsley Suamayatia, a draft pick out of BYU, that's kind of your mix at left tackle. Now, the Chiefs do a phenomenal job of incorporating multiple tight ends to help with the underwhelming tackle play. And it's not prohibitive, right?

He just won the Super Bowl with basically these tackles, of course, I know Donovan Smith part of the mix, but he's certainly not a great player. I think they're in a position right now where if you were going to be concerned, about something on offense it's tackle but again how how concerned can you possibly be yeah and the the kingsley sua amatia pick i thought was perfect for the situation it's like yeah one they believe in juan morris to an extent but it was like but we also need to have a really significant plan p just in case it doesn't go well so i love it let those two battle out um i actually i think i had a first round grade on sumud no i didn't early second round grade on him but um like the player i also loved the the hunter norzard pick uh i thought

He had a smaller. They got him in the fifth. It feels like somehow they always just get interior guys way later than they should that are that are really solid players. 100%. Yeah. Humphrey and Trey Smith are examples of that. And I think I think in Norzod and Suamayatia, I think you might have succession plans in place, right? Like, Joanne Taylor, I'm sure they're going to love to get out of that deal with the first opportunity that they can. Maybe there's a world where at some point in the future, Morris and Sueh Amiatia are your starting tackles. You know, how much can, and you have extensions. coming up for Humphrey and Smith, right? That's, those are, I mean, dude, Quinn Miner's just got $20 million a year. Okay. That's what, that's what every bit of what Smith and Humphrey are going to demand. And so whether it's, you can't bring them both back, whether it's okay, it's time to move on from Tooney, having a guy like Norzod in the pipeline is going to position them well, long term with this offensive line. Absolutely. Their depth on the O line is definitely better than the other side of the ball, Joe. So defense. Dude, can we just start by giving

Spags his flowers, the defensive coordinator? Yes. Man, it doesn't matter it just doesn't matter what defensive backs they have. They have just been cycling through these guys for the last five, six years, whether it's Fuller, whether it's Rashad Fenton, whether it's Cheverius Ward,

Legerius Sneed, your most recent example. It just, it doesn't matter. Even with some of their safeties, whether it's Juan Thornhill or Tyron Matthew, they just put guys in and Spags gets it out of them. And so, despite losing Legerius Sneed and I'm certainly the, and he's a premier player in the league.

I think the long term with his knee is the concern there. And obviously the Chiefs being mindful of their roster distribution and cap space and all that. Like you understand why they did it. Trent McDuffie is just going to become the next Legerius Sneed. And then between Jalen Watson and Josh Williams, we're going to have our outside corners. Chamari Conner has become like a very nice, versatile hybrid slot safety type player. They're going to be just fine despite, you know, moving on from one of the premier corners in the league in terms of DBs. Spaggs should be considered a kingmaker with his defense because he he puts out, and it's not like these corners have been bad elsewhere. Well, Rashad Fenton, maybe. Right, right.

So various words been good. Stud. Yeah. And Kendall Fuller's been great. Yeah. So, but point being is like this defense really sets them up for success. They've had, so they've, they've been top 10 in the league the last four years in average time to throw for opposing quarterbacks. So like his exotic pressure looks really keeps, you know, offenses on their toes. And I think that's such a huge thing for these corners because he is effectively putting them on the island. I think one of the things that stands out is they blitz about on average between 36 and 40 percent every year, year over year, but their pressure rate on blitzes hovers around 47 percent success. Wow. Wow. They're getting

home a lot. When they send it, it's effective. It's getting pressure. I think that really helps those corners. And I love Legerius Need. I think he's a really good player. But you do have to wonder how much was he helped by the Spag's Kingmaker system, you know? Probably so. But what do you think about this front? I mean, Chris Jones stud. Carl Loptus in year two, man, I thought he took a major step. Mike Dana, we both like him. But now Charles Omanahue, when he tore his ACL late. So you kind of wonder about what he's going to give you this season. I think you're counting on Felix and Duket-Uzoma, your 2023 first round pick to really help you out when it comes to this pass rush. Of course, no Willie Gay, who cares, right?

You have Bolton, Drew Tranquil, and Leo Chanel. So you're going to be just fine there. I think I'm looking for EZoma to kind of be the guy that steps up here on this defense of front. Yeah, he's going to have to be. It reminds me of Carl Offtis going into last year. It's like, whoa, they have no de-line depth, right? Like that was the word on the street. And then Carloptus, after having a pretty unsubes,

savory rookie season really stepped up his second year i think they're they're banking on the same thing from from felix here so um i do like that they brought back mike dana as well he was rumored to have signed you know a million other places there's teams knocked on his door so took a while for that to get done too i felt like it was a matter of time but like he's a important player for that front for sure and you know he he's going to give you a five six hundred snaps if he needs to um ideally someone steps up though he doesn't have to but he's he's still a good player so other than sneed they returned this entire defense essentially. I mean, it's, you know, I just think depth is really the only concern there. Like, detackle, you know, Mike Pennell is he? Mike Pennell was like the Super Bowl MVP in

some ways. I mean, that guy, the 49ers had no answer for him. I'm like, what is going on? It's practice squad defensive tackle. His best game of the season by far. What is going on here? Beating up on these guys. Yeah, I guess that that would be your concern. Nottie Pennell to Sean Wharton to go with Chris Jones, you think are the key players when it. comes to the interior defensive line. So it's the chief's world. We're all living in it. And we'll see if somebody can prevent them from a third straight. But like what's, Mahomes has been in the AFC championship game every season as a starter, right? Like it's, it's not can anybody keep them out of that game, you know, like the bills are the only hope.

Bills and a healthy Joe Burrow, right? I think that's. Yeah. Well, and I guess the Texans are supposed to be the greatest team ever. So we'll see what happens there. All right. I'm not sure you heard about this. but there's another Harbaugh that's a head coach in the NFL taking over the Los Angeles Chargers. I've heard all about imagining Justin Herbert with a run game. I'm really excited for this conversation because you and I have had some teaser talks about the Chargers. And I feel like maybe there's some components of this roster that you see differently than I do, particularly the wide receiver's position. So like, let's get into it.

I'm excited for Harbaugh with this team. I'm optimistic for it. I just wonder if we're going to be this type of team that's going to be predicated on running the football. And our best running backs are the offensive line's great. The offensive line's great. Make no mistake about it. But like J.K. Dobbins, Gus Edwards, that doesn't move the needle from me. And then we're going to have Justin Herbert, who's this do everything quarterback.

And our receivers are Josh Palmer, Quentin Johnson, and Ladd McConkey. This kind of feels unsurious to me. Oh, Joe. I don't, how many times do I have to tell you this, though? Run backs do not matter. They don't matter. Gus Edwards was awesome last year. Are you kidding me?

He was perfectly fine in that. He's three yards in a cloud of dust. Just give him a track and he just goes. More like 4.2 yards in a cloud of dust, but. Because he falls for boring. It's it's just offensive line driven. That's all you need. You know,

look how bad Blake quorum was last year for most of the season coming back from that knee injury. And Michigan still ran over every single team they played. It doesn't matter. Gus Edwards is perfectly fine. They drafted this kid, Kimani Vidal, who I really like. I think he's got some upside here.

I just think the floor, when you step into a situation like the charges, and I know there was a pretty big exodus and talent with Mike Williams and Keenan Allen and yada, yada, yada. But when you step into a team that has really good offensive line play and really good defensive line play, well, I should say edge rushers, I think the floor is pretty high for you.

So I'm kind of excited about that. from from that perspective i think that the floor is automatically pretty high and then you have Justin herbert to boot and i know i've been a big Justin Herbert hater but it's like you should have quarterback figured out and offensive line defensive line pretty easy to kind of piece together the rest in my opinion so is anybody afraid about covering quentin johnson and josh palmer i you're like you're in on josh palmer in ways that i'm uncomfortable with he he's been awesome i don't know what what else you want me to say he's what as the third guy behind williams and all and now he's like their number one receiver.

Williams and Allen are always hurt, Joe. That's the thing. When they're gone, Josh Palmer steps in and just does the same thing Keenan Allen does. All right. I'm looking at it right now. In total, for wide receivers, in total win rate among wide receivers last year, he ranks 23rd in the NFL. What does win rate mean? Tell me about this.

So separation. Okay. I'm out. Wide receiver separation. His win rate ranks 23rd. So he's beating his guy. That's like, that's, firmly wide receiver one type numbers there.

So you're, I mean, you're thinking very highly of Josh Palmer and being a 130 target guy and producing for this offense. I think very, he's the wrong term. I think he's a lot better than you think he is, though. He's produced any, every time he's been given the opportunity, he's produced at a pretty high level. And then to boot, you have two, well, basically two first round picks playing with him. McConkey was early, early second with a first round grade from me.

And Quinton Johnson's a first round pick who, By the way, Quentin Johnson was never supposed to be good last year. Let's just wipe the slate clean with him. I know, especially the fantasy community, you guys are obnoxious when it comes to Quentin Johnson. He was never supposed to be good last year. He was a raw developmental wide receiver with freaky athletic traits. They drafted to develop.

The one concern is he's not Harbaugh's guy. I will clap back, though, and say, if anyone knows how good Quentin Johnson, it is Jim Harbaugh, because he roasted him. in the TEPA playoffs. So I think the collection of parts, too, with Palmer, McConkey, and Quentin Johnson is a really nice trio. I do think it's a nice trio. Dude, that's funny. I just realized they have Max Dugan and Quentin Johnson. That just hit me. That just hit you? Yeah. It just hit me. Yeah. That's fascinating.

Okay, so we see this offense differently. I like the offensive line. I like the quarterback. I don't know. I mean, we're going to find out of skill players matter because I think this is Yeah. Well, what more do you need, offensive line and quarterback? Playmakers. Well, I mean, you got, sometimes the quarterback has to elevate the guys around him. Yeah, so you're, I already see it. You already got the built in thing. Justin Herbert's going to, it's on him, right?

I'm not, he's a paid quarterback. You called him a coach killer. I stand by that. I'm not doing this for an angle, though. I promise you. I'm just saying this is the time now. If Justin Herbert is that dude, he's got to step up. And I don't even think his situation is that bad.

He's going to have a good offensive line. And I think he's got a nice trio of receivers. It's not the best. It's not even top 10. But it's definitely not bottom half of the league like pretty much everyone in their mother has wrote up. You don't think this is a bottom half of the league receiver core? No. I think this is a bottom two.

I think it's them in Pittsburgh. Joe. What? The Chargers and Steelers and the Cardinals. Those are the three worst receiver cores in the league. Marvin Harrison Jr. Come on. Brett Whitefield.

Come on, brother. I'm confused. They just invested two first round picks. So you got to wait and see first. You picked Ladd McConkey. to be your all rookie wide receiver. Right, because I think this receiver course stinks. And I think he's the only guy that is going to be able to be a consistent, like,

I want to throw this guy to football. Wow. All right. So the chargers are going to be a thing all year for us on this podcast. What's crazy is I don't even like Justin Herbert. You like Justin Herbert more than me. And I like, I know. And they're ruined to my guy.

And I think that's, I think that's what this comes from. I like Herbert. You don't like Herbert. So you are making like, yeah, he's got what he needs. And I'm like, I don't think he's got what he needs. Let's, let's properly hold, well, it's properly. reframe that. I like Herbert just fine. I think he is massively underwhelmed and the narrative on him is incorrect at large. That's my thing with Herbert. But I like him just fine. I think he's a really nice

skill set. Seems like a great guy. We'll see if he's a great leader and if he can elevate his team. All right. So what's, is it Jesse Minters, the defensive coordinator here. He comes over from Michigan. He's in this like Ravens to Michigan to NFL defensive coordinator. that suddenly exists in the NFL. It's because of the Harbaugh brothers. My Harbaugh, yeah, that that whole city. He would call his brother. Hey, send me your youngest, brightest guy that you want to, you know, develop a little bit.

Kind of cool, but now that's no longer a thing. The player I'm most excited about for this defense is Tully Tui Poloto. I thought he had such a good rookie season, man. I know that they have Bosa and Mac and they signed Bud DePribe, but like, I think Tui Polotu needs to be like a feature part of this defense. I loved him as a rookie. They use them together, too. And certain passing situations, they'd bring him in with Bosa and back on the field.

I would too, yeah. I love it. I'd just get after it. Bosa can rush from three technique just fine. You can also, you know, Mentor loves those stand-up linebackers that can blitz and drop in coverage. And so I think getting all three of those guys in the field is going to be attractive for him. And shoot, Bud DePri to some extent does that at a lesser level, right? But, yeah, I like this group for sure.

we kind of tease the interior defensive line. I do it. I loved Puna Ford with Seahawks. I was so excited the bills got him. I don't know what the heck happened, man. I don't know why he didn't play. And I think this is a great spot for him because it's a very clear opportunity to be a starter. I'm nervous, though. Like if that's your best defensive tackle, that's not great.

Like, Otito, Ogbanya, not a needle mover for me. Morgan Fox is a fine depth player. I mean, they got the rookie, a Boygby. We'll see. I like him. I like a Boigby. I felt like fourth round was a good value for him. Right.

But I mean, we're talking. I mean, they need him to be a thing right away. I just, this interior D line's not good. Correct. Oh, granted you that for sure. Do you ever wonder? So like, not to sidetrack too much. How do you pronounce his name?

Sorry. Ed Boy. Coming from Alabama, he's another one of these guys that kind of played a weird position there, where it's like he's basically playing five technique or two technique a lot, not really in favorable past rushing situations. It seems like we see. see these guys at the at the college level do much better in the NFL than they did in college.

I feel like he's just going to be another one. And I'm not trying to say that that makes the group strong. I'm just curious on his, what your thoughts were on him pre-diff. Because I liked him better than like the guy the Jacksonville Jaguar took in the second round. I like him both the guys the Falcons took. Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. I agree. I agree.

He's more dynamic than them. And I think it's a great, I think it's a good spot for him to showcase himself, to be honest with you. And if he could be a thing, I think that would matter a ton for this front. I think there's some people that are worried about Joey Bosa, right? He's had some injuries. You kind of wonder how effective he's been. I don't think anything of Bud Dupree. I like Khalil Mack.

So, like, I think we're going to find out some things about this front. It's going to be important. Who do you think Junior Colson's running mate is? Denzel Perryman? Is that a good complimentary pair? Do you think they kind of would like Diane Henley to factor in as a second year player? Yeah, probably, I mean, from a skill set standpoint, Colson pairs with Henley very well.

Right. I agree. He's more the freak athlete, you know, run and cover kind of linebacker. Paramond, though, is what, he's been in L.A. for how long? 10 years? So we'll see. For sure. They will presumably play some base, though, because that it, that mentor does that a lot. So and by base, I mean, three linebackers. Three linebackers. And I mean, their, their slot situation is kind of interesting as well. Like, just here Taylor, they drafted Tarheeb still. So we'll see how that shakes out.

I like Loloie Gilman a lot as a, like, I thought his tape was really good last season. A tackler showed some ball skills as well. We'll see what Derwin can be, Durwin James. Asante Samuel, a good player. Kind of an underrated piece of this defense to me, underrated signing in general is Christian Fulton. Agreed. I really like Fulton. I only didn't have his best season last year.

I think it would be tough for anybody to have their best season last year with what was going on with Tennessee. And I think he could come in. I think he will start. And I think he's put up better tape than he did last season. I think he'll be a good starter for this team. Yep, I agree with that. Also, he's better in man coverage. Minter's going to play a lot of man.

Him and Samuel, that'll be, that'll work out well. That'll work out well. So. Agreed with you there. I feel like the range of outcomes for the Chargers this year are all over the place. I think there's probably a baseline of, okay, we have Harbaugh and certain level of trench play. I don't think they're going to be a bad team. But if you told me they won seven games,

I wouldn't be surprised. If you told me they won 10 games, I wouldn't be surprised. So we view them similarly then, to be honest. I think when I say high floor, I'm talking, I think seven, seven eight wins is high floor. So I'm right there with you.

Yeah, I don't think it'll be terrible. Somewhere between seven and 10 wins. Yeah. Denver Broncos, Sean Payton, year two, Bo Nicks, the first round pick at quarterback, Russell Wilson, Adios,

we're paying everyone on the offensive line. Is this a breakthrough year for Denver? What's your vibe check on what's going on here? Vibe check is they had the offseason move of the year

and I was very excited about it. The offseason move of the year. Any team made this off season. And you're going to say trading away Russell Wilson. Correct. That's the guy. I'm going to say, yes.

From a pure culture standpoint, the Sean Payton, Russ Wilson relationship was just not working. I'm sure Sean Payton doesn't have clean hands through that whole process himself, but you can't have a team when there's that much of dysfunction between quarterback head coach. It just doesn't work. So getting rid of that, resetting the culture is huge for me. I just think it's, and we know Sean Payton's a good X's and O's coach, you know,

how great as a leader of men he is. I'm not really sure, but I just think getting rid of Russell Wilson and getting, you know, new blood in there and Bow Nicks and. Zach Wilson. I know people laugh at the Zach Wilson thing, but it's a dart at a high-upside quarterback, and they drafted the opposite safe guy in Bo Nick. So I just like overall how they were able to navigate that. I know they lost a lot of talent elsewhere, but to me, this should be a step forward for Denver for sure. Yeah, I think that Sean Payton's going to enjoy having a quarterback that's going to run the offense. That's the deal with Russell Wilson. It was

throw a bomb or hold the ball and throw a checkdown, we're not running the offense. And so I think it's kind of remarkable that the team, they finished like eight and nine, right? They were wound up being a pretty decent way. They had some quality wins. They beat the Packers. They beat the Chiefs. They beat the bills. They've had some big wins along the way.

And that was with a quarterback that didn't run the offense. And so we'll see what Bo Nix is. I'm a little bit higher on him than I think maybe some people are. I enjoyed him at Oregon. And I thought for a scheme that had a lot of, you know, short throws, get the ball out of his hands very quickly. I thought his second reaction stuff really popped. And so if he can win in structure and then kind of sprinkle in some of that other stuff,

I think he'd be a good player. Obviously, they're paying now that Quinn Miners is a $20 million year guard, they're paying bowls, they're paying powers, they're paying miners, they're paying McGlinchie pretty handsomely for their five starters. But the question does come at the center position where I guess Luke Wattenberger is your leading candidate to start, Alex Forsyth, probably in some competition. I'm interested to see how that shakes out.

I think that's your biggest question on offense is who's going to be the center? And then I guess maybe you look at the tight end position and can Greg Dulcich get the hamstring figured out? Because he's such a bright player at UCLA. I love them as a rookie. But these hamstring deal seems pretty significant and, you know, I don't know really what to expect. Sean Payton also has to get over his Adam Troutman addiction as well. Yeah, he's got.

That's real. A lot of people don't know this, but when they drafted Troutman, I think they took him in the fourth round, right? Yeah, something like that, yeah. Like five draft picks left in that draft. They traded all of them to get Troutman. And since that moment, Sean Payton's like forced him onto the field. And I don't think Trouman's a bad player,

but he's definitely not like a needle moving tight end that you really need to like throw your support behind. Like he's a tyrant king or something. You like this receiver core? No. No, I don't. Sorry. I the Jerry Judy trade is one that bothers me.

You know, I did praise them for some good off season moves. I just like, like, and I know the production didn't seem like it was there, but when you watch the tape, Judy was always open. In fact, like in the separation data that's coming to the fantasy points data suite here in probably late August, Jerry Judy on in breaking routes or horizontally breaking routes led the NFL in separation in win rate. Wow. Dude was always open, but we know Russell Wilson doesn't throw out of the middle of the field, right? So it's like he just wasn't going to get him the ball.

And he kind of produced decent despite that. I think he had three straight years over 700 yards. So he hasn't been a complete bust. So I didn't like trading him for a bag of balls when the depth behind him wasn't good. Now, if they were loaded at receiver and you're like, ah, we can get another, we get some draft capital for this guy. We don't want to pay. That makes sense.

But they didn't. They gave Josh Reynolds a bag of balls. They've got Tim Patrick coming back from his ninth ACL tear. Troy Flan. It's a weird blend too. Like Sutton's like a typical. Alpha X type receiver and Josh Reynolds is the same mold, basically. They run a very similar route tree.

They win the same way. So now you're forcing Marvin Mims to the slot where I like him in the slot sometimes, but I also like that speed on the outside. I like his ability to stack defensive backs and win vertically. Not really going to have that opportunity in the slot as much. So I'm just a little confused of what the game plan was there for them. Well, I am excited for Marvin Mims. I think he's the piece of this receiver core that gets me the most excited,

made some big plays when he got some chances last year. He just didn't get a ton of chances. I think that will increase this year. Certainly they want to run the ball. You know, Javante Williams now further removed from the ACL tear year two, right? So you'll hope there's a little bit more juice there. Of course, Somaget, P. Rine, Adrick, Estime, Brett Whitefield's going to tell me that running backs don't matter.

I tend to agree with you. But I think the emphasis, the emphasis that they will have on running the football with a rookie quarterback and maybe some questions at wide receiver makes a lot of sense. Defensively, this was a journey for them. I'm not sure if you remember or not, but they gave up 70 points to the Miami Dolphins because they couldn't defend crack toss. And it's interesting, they bring in John Franklin Myers, who's what is he? He's like an edge setter.

Yeah, I think that's going to help them a ton in that capacity. But Vance Joseph returns here as the defensive coordinator. We got some transition here. We got transition at safety. we got transition at CB2. We have transition at linebacker. What's your thoughts on this Broncos defense? It was a mess last year.

But after that Dolphins game, they kind of bounced back. They were the laughing stock for a while, but the defense tightened up a little bit. So they have one of the best corners in the league, Pat Surtain. He is awesome. And I, Joe, John Franklin Myers edition seems like a lot of people just, oh, it's nice six round pick for Myers, whatever.

It's impactful to me. they now have three guys on that front that should be able to stop the run and then they have the collection of edge rushers i actually really like i do too john cooper jona ellis baron brown baron browning's tape and he's healthy is freaking unbelievable yeah nick benito like just a real good collection of athletic just speed rushers movers and i think that's where they struggled against the run a little bit last year those guys aren't your your stack and shed type guys you know. But man, on passing downs, they should be significantly better this year. They brought in Levi Wallace, too, from Pittsburgh via Buffalo. He's not a great corner, but he's a solid corner. He's

better than what they're playing opposite Certain last year. Yeah, well, last year was they started off with Damari Mathis, who was a disaster. Disaster. And their defense got better when Fabian Moreau became the guy opposite of him. I would, I'm guessing they're hoping Riley Moss can emerge for them is maybe the guy opposite of Pat Certainne with a high floor, like, player and Levi Wallace as I think ideally a depth player. The ceiling's going to come from Riley Moss. And Jaquam McMillan, I mean, that guy made a ton of place from the slot last season. So it's kind of cool to see him emerge for that defense. The safety group's really different, right? We go on from Kareem Jackson and Justin Simmons. We have PJ Locke and Brandon Jones. They gave

Brandon Jones a pretty decent deal to come over from Miami. I don't think we're better at linebacker in safety. I mean, candidly, no, I mean, Alex Singleton and Cody Barton, you say goodbye to Josie Jewel. I don't like where we're headed there. True Sanders, you thought was going to be part of the mix. Didn't he already tear his Achilles or something like that? So he won't be part of the mix.

I think that they regressed that linebacker and safety, but I mean. Explain the Brandon Jones for Justin Simmons swap to me. I can't tell you anything, by the way. but I need someone to explain this to me. I can't. Brandon Jones, like an enforcer type player, he's got some like straight line speed and he's physical, but like a mess and zone coverage, a lot of friendly fire with with the way he plays the game. I thought that was one of the big overspends of any team for a contract this off season was what Denver gave Brandon Jones. Seven and a half million bucks a year. Yeah, it's not.

Right now. Gun to your head. Justin Simmons signs for more or less than that. You get a sign for less than that. He is, isn't he? Yeah. So that to me, that's a joke. If you, it was Simmons bad in the locker room or something? No, it's the Sean Payton thing, right? Like, Sean Payton is, I've heard so many stories about him and like his attitude towards certain players and like he probably wanted to build the defense a certain way and didn't like Justin Seed or Simmons leadership and had to kind of get him out of the way

to advance things. Like, I think it's Sean Payton stiff arm, to be honest with you. Okay. And that's, I don't have any scoops there. That's just me speculate. Well, he definitely has a temperament for that. that and we've seen it happen time in time again so that would shock me it's just weird though to spend that kind of money on it's not that jones is a bad player like i said it's just Simmons is a great

player so i don't i don't know i don't know the whole thing is weird i will say uh chris abram drains is one of my favorite corners in this class he was awesome in 2022 at missouri he played through an injury all last year and in kind of regress but still was really good his ball production unmatched in this class like forcing completion rate over 30 percent the last two years years ungodly went to the senior bowl absolutely dominated everybody there i think i know a lot of people thought quinyon was the best corner at the senior ball i thought chris abram drain was actually he i don't even remember a single rep he got beat on and those those drills are designed for corners to lose he was phenomenal and then somehow he felt at the fifth round i think he's a little light in the pants 170 pounds or

whatever but dude dude's a good player so if he could i know he looks like he's going to contend for that nickel job i also think he can play on the outside in the NFL i think he's He's that good. So that's Denver. Rookie quarterback. Do we have enough answers in certain spots on defense? We have enough at receiver. It's going to be a fascinating team year two under Sean Payton.

Gets us to the Las Vegas Raiders. Antonio Pierce, now your full-time head coach, Tom Thalesco, the general manager. Gardner Minshu, your new starting quarterback, you would assume, you know, Aiden O'Connell's in the mix here. year one for Pierce as the full-time head coach. As we look at this offense, man, I feel like this is the team that should have went and got Kirk Cossons. Right? Right.

I mean, do you think Gardner Minshu raises the floor at all? Or is he just Aiden O'Connell, but older? They're very similar players. It's kind of creepy, actually. Yeah, I think maybe, I mean, the concern with Minchew is, can be erratic, right? Like, I think Aiden O'Connell, maybe if there's an argument that he can keep it between the lines, a little better. Maybe not as dynamic. I think there's some trade-off there, but I think where I'm kind of getting at with the Raiders, and we'll talk, we'll flesh it out. But I feel like the Raiders

are a team that as I studied them in advance of this conversation, I found myself with a pretty favorable outlook on their roster more so than I thought I would. But then it's like, well, what do we have a quarterback? You know, kind of puts a wet blanket on what I think could be a decent football. I think that's a really, really good point. I had the same kind of feeling. I don't know that I'd be like, I was going through their offensive line. I'm like, dude, dirt. And I was looking at some metrics too while I was looking at.

I'm like, they're good. And they're deep. Like they got depth. They brought in Andrews Pete. They invested multiple draft picks into the offensive line. That was already pretty good. JPJ. Now going to be their left guard.

DJ Glaze. I wasn't a huge DJ Glaze guy, but as far as culture fit and the way, you know, Antonio Pierce is, he's perfect for what they do. So I mean, they tone, kind of a tone setting draft for them with Brock Bowers and JPJ and DJ Glaze. They really invested into that offense to seemingly raise the floor of it. But then you're right. Then you just look at quarterback. You're like, well, that sucks.

That's not going to get anything done. And I really worry about Minshu in his, if he becomes a starter to get the ball downfield. Devante Adams is still the freaking man. Like he still ranks, you know, top dog in just about every stat or top five, I should say. And then Trey Tucker's got wheels for days. And they don't have a quarterback to get these guys the ball down field. So it's a little concerning. And Guyton's got wheels as well as a death receiver for them.

Yeah, I'm concerned about that. I mean, you didn't even mention Cody Whitehair, who's a debt piece for this offensive line. And, you know, well, Jermenur has been a good player for them, so they have to replace him. But I think Dayer Munford's had enough good flashes that you feel okay about him at right tackle. You know, it's just like, we're missing a quarterback offensively. Now, we'll see Luke Getzzi, right, the offensive coordinator.

There's plenty of questions there. But this team, I mean, I think Antonio Pierce is going to want to run the football. Obviously, Josh Jacobs is no longer part of the Knicks. But Zemir White stepping in, young, fresh legs, we'll see how that goes. But there's some potency here with this group. I just, I worry that we don't have the quarterback and even the offensive coaching to maximize it all. Defensively, they gave Christian Wilkins the bag, top five highest paid defensive player in the NFL.

And I think that's a good lesson about free agency. And you see, I mean, whether it's Robert Hunt or Christian Wilkins, guys getting a lot more per season than you anticipated. I'm not saying Christian Wilkins isn't a good player. But the point is they gave him a ton of money. And that gets me excited for Max Crosby, who has not had a player like this next to him yet. And I think Max Crosby, one of the premier defensive playmakers in the league,

him I love what I saw from Alken Coontz last season those three guys to me up front is where I find optimism for what this defense can be yeah man and John Jenkins doesn't suck either I mean he's not he's not a bad player so the D-line

the starters at least are in good shape here so Max Crosby is probably the most underrated defensive linemen in the league seemingly never gets tossed out with you know the Bosa's and Miles Garrett and Watt but he's every bit of as good. And the dude, you know, he just, he can literally win anyway. He's got power.

He's got speed. He's got moves after moves, counters after counters. And he never stops. One of the funest players in the league to watch, actually. If you just watch Max Crosby down in and down out, you will have fun watching football, I promise. Yeah, I agree with that. We kind of already talked a little bit about Divine Diablo and how that transition from safety at Virginia Tech to second level defender for the Raiders is working out. Robert Spillane, I'm higher on him, I think than you. I thought he had a good season with the Raiders. To me, the big question here with the secondary is,

I like Jack Jones, I like Nate Hobbs, I like Marcus Epps, I like Trayvon Merrick. Who's going to be our other starting corner? Are we counting on Jacorian Bennett in his second season? To take a step, I thought he was rough as a rookie. They drafted to Cameron Richardson, who's got a lot of tools.

Brandon Fasins kind of bounced around a bunch in the league. You know, who's our other corner opposite of Jack Jones? Yeah, Jacarian Bennett was, he had some rough moments last year. I think he give up like 60% completion rate, which isn't, it's not terrible, but the problem is it was mostly downfield.

So he got beat up a little bit. And, you know, he wasn't a full-time starter, right? Then he only play like 300 snaps. But man, he, the thing is when he was coming out,

that you had him and Deontay Banks in the same class from the same school. I thought the gap between Bennett and Banks was tighter than pretty much draft Twitter or even the NFL thought. It looks like I was probably wrong on that. because Bennett didn't have a good moments last year. But they don't have many options, Joe. I mean, that's the problem there.

They don't have many options. So he's going to have to actually, this defense needs their recent draft picks to really take a step. Like Tyree Wilson, we didn't mention him in the D-Lyline's talk. He's got to take a step. I know you liked what Malcolm Coots put on tape last year, but ultimately Wilson is the guy they've invested a ton into

and they need him to, whether that's playing a little more three technique or whatever, they have to get more out of him for sure. So what's tough. about the entire AFC West conversation is that the Kansas City Chiefs exist. So it's not surprising to me that as we enter this season, you have two teams in this division that are entering year one of a new coach and new GM. And then there's Denver who's entering year two with Sean Payton and a rookie quarterback. And as a fan of the Buffalo Bills and living through the Tom Brady, New England Patriots run in the AFC East, I know

what this is like where that's the problem in your division. And because of that, because they're the standard, they're the team that you specifically within the division are trying to get past, it's this never-ending cycle of changing coaches, changing GMs. I saw it for years. I saw it happen to the bills. I saw it happen to the jets. Saw it happen to the dolphins because the Patriots are the problem. And I just wonder if just the timing really sucks for these other teams that I don't think are bad football teams. But are they ever going to be able to stake committed enough to a certain direction to ever get close to being competitive with Kansas City in this division. That's such a great point. I saw this as a Lions fan the whole life with

how good the Packers have been for the last 20 plus years. Obviously, they had a couple of years here and there where they weren't great, but they were, they always dominated in it. Minnesota, Detroit, Chicago, just constantly cycling coaches, GMs, just trying to catch the Packers. And yeah, that division's in it right now. And, you know, revisiting what you said about the Raiders, It's like seems like Kirk Cousins, they were the team for Kirk Cousins. Well, maybe they weren't because of what you just said. And maybe they need to build that roster up before they go all in on a QB and really get that roster to a point where we are a QB away from potentially catching Kansas City.

Because I don't think you can say that about them right now. I don't think Kirk got them over the Kansas City hump. Chargers are in the same boat. And obviously Denver is as well. So that's a great point, though. I don't see another playoff team of this division this year. Probably not. AFC has too many good teams.

Kansas City might have this division locked up early December, early. It seemed maybe. Kansas City's kind of been messing around a little bit in the regular season, though, have they not? It's kind of like the Patriots, though, where like there's always a couple games where you're just like, they've coast through, you know, just trying to get to the postseason. It's definitely a thing. But I think what's so helpful for Kansas City is they're either going to get the buy or they're going to manufacture their own buy going into the playoffs because they're going to have it locked up. and they're not going to have to play their starters like this past season, right? It was they, the Ravens were the one seed.

But that week 17 game, they rested everybody and they were able to hit that, you know, the hardest path ever to the Super Bowl and they did it. Well, let's not forget that they manufactured their own biweek, which I think is an inevitable part of the chief schedule moving forward until one of these other teams can put them on notice. And I don't think anyone's close to putting them on notice. Great points as usual, Joe. pick the pick this you got kansas city one how you how you see in the rest of the division go it's

competitive yeah i think it is competitive i'll go chiefs chargers raiders broncos that's how i have it but i mean i i think the chiefs could win the division by five games correct yes yep so it's chiefs long pause yeah sargers raiders broncos yeah i'm with you and those last three could be within a game of each other you know yeah clop scratching or scratching and clon i must said cratchin and sclon yeah but then you did say it so but then i did say it yeah dude we just did it we just finished the last division preview which means we have to put our thinking caps on for the next few episodes before the season starts but awesome man i i feel good about that we if you haven't listened to the whole series every week for the last eight weeks we've been going through

knocking out divisions one by one so we've broken down everyone given our thoughts rosser introduction, 2024 season. Please go check it out. You good? You feel good about this? Good. All right.

Let's get out of here. Remember folks, no matter what develops, we will always be your first read. Thank you for listening. We are out.