Fantasy Football Daily - NFL First Read | Early NFL Awards Picks + Division Breakdown

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino for early The NFL Award picks and divisional breakdowns. Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Check out The Waiver Wire - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/the-waiver-wire-week-5#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Joe Marino of Lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the C.O of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. Let's get after it. All right, Joe, all I got to say right now is, woo. Is that the Lions dub victory chant? Woo! I, I'm I thought that was Rick Flair, man. The nature boy, baby. Lions, I hear you. Get it? Yeah.

So, Joe, just to recap where we're at in life, two weeks in a row now, we get to kick off the Tuesday pod with celebration because either your team or my team has laid a smackdown on Monday night football. Lions not quite as clean as the Bills game last week, but I'll take it. 14 point victories don't come easily, usually. So here we are. I'm very excited. lines are three and one at the quarter. Oh, man, it feels good. It feels good.

Brett, you said not as clean. I mean, does it get any more clean than 18 of 18 for 292 yards and two touchdowns? That feels pretty clean to me. That's a speaking of that, Joe, I wanted to start the show by reading a tweet from an esteemed individual in the data analytics space. One PFF underscore moo. He says, if Jared Goff had a perfect game, how do we call the better QB? performance in the same game. Now listen, I don't, Joe, we've talked about the lack of respect Jared Goff gets on this pod before, but how can a guy go 18 for 18 and play flawless football the entire game? And when I mean flawless, I'm not kidding.

Like, it was the perfect blend. It's what you and I've been talking about we need to see from Jared Goff, this perfect blend of I'm going to take what the defense gives me. But then when push comes a shove and I need to rip a ball down the seam 20 yards, I'm doing it. And I can complete that pass. There's no, no danger there. I'm throwing with anticipation.

I'm reading the defense. He was awesome. Like, there's no way around it. He was amazing. And then on the other side, you do have Gino Smith, who at times looked very good. But let's not forget. He threw the ball to Detroit three times. Two of them were dropped.

Carlton Davis had one right in his breadbasket. Alex Anzolone had one hit him in the face, basically. And then obviously the game ending interception to Kirby Joseph. Again, by the way, that's three this year for Kirby. that literally ended the game. Man, I don't know. That kind of tweet just bothers me so bad. It's like even when Jared Goff goes 18 for 18 and plays like that,

he's still taking shots from the crew. I don't get it, man. I don't get it. Make it make sense. I can't, man. It feels like Jared Goff is just in so many ways a punching bag for some people in the social media football community. And I don't really understand it.

Does he have as frustrating moments? Yeah, what quarterback doesn't? What quarterback does? Are we watching the rest of the league or are you specializing your analysis based on your priors regarding one particular player? Right? I feel like, and you'd expect more. I'd expect more for anybody who does follow the league closely to have that type of perspective and not apply, specialize in, you know, analysis towards players that they have, whatever bias towards.

My only regret, Brett Whitefield is that this didn't come from PFF, George, who also said a few years ago in something I will never forget about a Bill Steelers game that was about to be played, saying, quote, Duck Hodges is the better quarterback playing at home in a must win game for a team is getting back their best offensive player and Juju Smith Schuster. So I don't know, man, the same the same folks that told us Duck Hodges is better than Josh Allen has that type of takes. You know what I mean? Kind of just leave it and where it is and understand that maybe you should. shouldn't care that much about what they say.

And that right there is the key. And this is why I try to avoid Twitter. I'll go on like a three week no tweet hiatus just randomly. Yeah. It's healthy to do that. It is. But all the social media experts that we have here at fans points tell me like, dude, you're you're nuking your own account.

Like the algorithm now hates you. I know. Like when you come back, your tweets don't hit as big. I once took a nine month Twitter hiatus. Literally took it off the phone, logged out on my desktop and just, but these are these are the reasons why you know sometimes you just have to renew your mind refresh a little bit get the nonsense out of your brain it's almost better to like just not read anyone else's tweets say what you need to say like i get to that point a lot of times with my career in podcasting where

it's like i see this discourse and my my philosophy back to myself is jo just say what you need to say into the microphone and move on with your life you can lose so much time you can lose so much time sitting there trying to have ridiculous conversations with people to have ridiculous takes on the Twitter machine. You know what I mean? It's like, man, I got limited resource. I got two kids. I got a wife. I'll say what I need to say in the microphone and move on with my life. That's so good, man, because I, you know, I've been in this business for 10, 11 years, and I've basically been behind the scenes for nine of them. And so me being on a podcast and doing a lot written content that's new for me so i need that constant reminder just to say what you need to say

and step away but the chips where they may hey you're not like you're you're going to there's a consequence to that right like there's truth to that yeah you're not going to be in the algorithms and stuff like that i get it but i don't know man you got to you got to know you got to know who butters your biscuit you know what i mean that's what you got to know that's what you got to know and invest your time there. Bright Whitefield, Lions, three and one. That's not bad, right? On pace for a 12 win season, that feels pretty good. And speaking of pace, we want to spend a lot of time here moving forward on today's episode talking about where teams are at, where players are at. We're going to reflect on the big awards and give our picks for where things stand through

a quarter of the season and then get into some big picture conversation about the landscape in each conference. Now, it's a long season, right? It's a long season. You're going to play them all. And I keep going back to this last year in the NFC. We had two, three and six teams and a four and seven team. Get to the postseason, right? So nobody's funeral is scheduled quite yet. But there's some teams that might be on life support a little bit already. So we're going to get into all of that here today on this episode of NFL first read.

Let's get into some award stuff, Brett Whitefield. Let's talk MVP, offensive player of the year, defensive player of the rear, rookies of the year, coach of the year. Where do you want to start? You want to start with the big one with MVP? I think we should. I think there's a lot here that needs to be discussed, to be honest. So we're going to obviously give our picks. I will say that some of these awards were very easy for me to say, yeah, that's the right guy. Some of them, I think there's a number of acceptable answers. And I think MVP is one of those positions where, yeah, you could probably give me three names, maybe. And I'd say, yeah, I get it.

So you want to go first here, your pick, your pick for NFL MVP through four games? Yeah, sure. Why not? Why not? I don't typically like starting these conversations first because I don't know. I'm a little gun shy. But hey, oh, this one, I don't know if this is a hot take or not. I really don't know because I haven't paid attention to the discourse on this one. So I'm going with a rookie. I'm doing it. Washington commanders quarterback, Jaden Daniels, right now is my MVP. It was between him and Josh Allen for me. Cool. Okay. I got the taste of Josh Allen from Sunday night football in my mind. right so yeah had we foot the order of the games played i probably would have went with josh but i'm going jaden daniels right now i think he's getting better still the tape is awesome like in what cliff has done with him is just incredible i know there's not a lot of flash with him like you know he's got the 80% completion rate or whatever and a lot of it's easy throws and but man when he's asked to make a big play he has not failed them he has been on the money 16 straight scoring possessions at one point in the

season. Right. For a rookie quarterback, that is, that's ridiculous. For any quarterback, that's ridiculous. For a rookie, that is truly ridiculous. So I think he is, he's my MVP right now. And I feel pretty good about that. Overcoming a bad Washington defense as well, right? I think that's worthwhile in that conversation.

And O'Line. Yeah, I'll end O'Line. That's another great point. Let me, let me ask you this, because you know how this goes. Every crop of quarterbacks that enters the NFL as part of a draft class, they're always compared to one another, right? It's, it never ends. It never ends. It's part of the deal. You're going to talk about Borough, Tuwa, Herbert, love for the rest of your life. You're going to talk about Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Mayfield for the rest of your life. That's just how it

goes. So this crop of quarterbacks, that includes Jaden Daniels and Bo Nix and Caleb Williams. Like, they're always going to be measured against each other. And here's the commentary that I'm getting from a lot of Bears fans, right? That obviously feels some type of way because objectively, Jane Daniels has been the best rookie quarterback and it's not particularly close. It's not. But Bears fans would tell you that, you know, Caleb Williams is asked to do way harder things than Jaden Daniels.

And Jaden Daniels is in a gimmicky offense. And, you know, when this stabilizes itself out, you know, you're going to see Caleb Williams really be the guy. I disagree with that, but I'd like to hear from you as to your response on that as somebody who's watched every snap of these players at least 17 times. Yeah, I mean, not to just hang to my priors, but I never thought the Bears should have drafted Caleb Williams in the first place. Whether like my guy was JJ, obviously, but whether it was JJ or Jay, the same conversation we had with Carolina where it's like you traded the first overall, you need to take a bigger swing. My take with Caleb was you just got rid of a version of Caleb Williams and Justin Fields.

It didn't work. So try something else. Try a different kind of quarterback. Try someone who plays a little bit more in rhythm within structure. Jaden Daniels does those things at a high level. I would have taken Jada.J., I would have taken Jaden Daniels there. So I'm just sticking to what I've already said since freaking February.

You know, here's the deal. Anytime we're saying, oh, the Washington offense gimmicky, that's, to me, Bears fans are saying that to excuse poor coaching in Chicago. Yeah. Shane Waldron's been a mess. And like I'll admit, Caleb's tape is bad right now. I will say though the other day, and I wanted to give him some flowers today too, because when for the first time when a play needed to happen,

when he needed to make a throw, he made the throw. And he won that game down the stretch. And he was the reason why. You know, he made the plays necessary. So we'll give Caleb some flowers there. First time I actually felt good about something he's done this year. But man, Shane Walden's been a mess. This offense has been a mess.

And the tape has not been good. I don't know moving forward. My big concern too with Caleb Williams, Joe, is that they would get in the situation where Iber Fluse is going to be on the hot seat. Waldron wasn't going to be good. And either he's going to have a new OC next year or a new head coach situation.

And then if things don't get better quickly, maybe GM Ryan Pace is on the outs. These are the things I was worried about with Caleb Williams. And I would not have let another Eber Fluse regime make this pick. I would have brought in a new coach before. I let him add the new quarterback. Just so we're not doing the quarterback or the coaching carousel with a young quarterback again, they did this to Mr.

Trisky, they did this to Justin Fields. It's like, come on, guys, we got to, you know, we got to like change, I guess, our process here and get a little cleaner. So, but man, I can't say enough about Jane and Daniels, though. The best thing I can say about a quarterback is they execute the offense. They run the offense. And Jaden Daniels. runs the offense and runs it at a high level already.

And for Caleb Williams, I still think there's a lot of work needed for him to just run the offense. Just run the offense, man. Just play the position. Just play the position. All right, my pick for NFL MVP is not your pick. I think you have worthy candidate in Jaden Daniels. And I think Josh Allen's a worthy candidate. I do think that there is something to be said for the order of games.

and yeah, the stench of Sunday night, it looms large. And I don't, when I think about the reasons the bills had such a bad performance against Baltimore, Josh Allen's pretty low on that list of things that I would get to. My pick is Sam Darnel, quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings. He's come in and, I mean, he leads the NFL in touchdown passes with 11, convincing fashion. Baker Mayfield's number two with eight. And he's thrown multiple touchdowns in every game.

And this string of wins against the 49ers, Texas. and Packers, including a road win in Green Bay. I mean, that's impressive. I mean, so he's producing their 4-0, they're beating good football teams, beating a good football team on the road. I think the resume for Sam Darnold to this point is unmatched. And maybe there's a little bit of me giving him more credit

just because of where expectations were, right? And I think you're always going to measure that in some type of way and how you perceive things. But the quarterback that I think I'm the most impressed with right now is Sam Darnold, all things considered. And look, Hockinson's not around. Addison's been banged up. It's a new running back situation.

It's a new situation for Sam and for him to step in and give them the spark and the juice. And look, you can talk about the defense. The defense has been great for Minnesota. But Sam Darnold's engineered offense that's scoring at a very consistent rate. And I think he's outlawful. in some ways the people around him. Yeah. I'm not going to deny that the Sam Darnold isn't going to be a league-wide choice for MVP right now.

I think a lot of people are on that, right? And we can't deny that what he's done is amazing. It's bucked a lot of same Darnold trends. But here's my thing, Joe, the wheel started coming off on Sunday. Old Sam Darnold came back. And I left that game terrified of what's coming for the Vikings, to be honest with you. Well, let let's let it, man. Let's let that happen.

Let's let that happen before it does, right? like I am looking exclusively at a four game sample size. Yeah. You know, the Packers almost came back and won that game in large part because of Sam Darnold. I, it's tough for me. Like I said, I'm not going to deny he's not a candidate right now,

but I'm kind of just like I had that bad taste of Josh Allen from Sunday night, and I know the Vikings still won this game, but I have that bad taste with Darnold. You know, coming into the season, he is the, he's the all-time leader in turnover per dropback. And I just, I worry that,

we're staring down the barrel. You're holding that against him. You're holding that against him in this game. He's also a reason they got up to 28 to nothing with those early touchdowns that he threw. Yeah. Yeah. I get. No, I get it. You sound like a Lions fans that wants to toss a wet blanket over the four and O Vikings. That's what this feels like to me, Brett Whitefield. Oh, you can't do that to me. I've given, we spent 20 minutes talking Kevin O'Connell last week. Like I, I love what the Vikings are doing. I, they have, they drafted my guy, JJ. That's, probably if there's a bias here, it's more of that. There it is. I knew I had something to pull out of you there.

It's just, it's objective. And like I, there were a lot of moments in that game that scared the crap out of me for Donald. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, stuff that we've seen in Carolina and New York and just, I don't know, man. That, that's my only hesitation. And I, I'm not, I'm not trying to poo your pick. Like I said, everyone's going to agree with you. So it's fine. Yeah, I think, but I get, I get the moving forward, right? Sustainability. We've seen a lot of Sam Darnold in the NFL. I get all of that.

I just want to give him as flowers for these four games. You know who the Vikings next game is? Is it Detroit? Now it's the Jets. Sam Darnold against the Jets in London. Games in London. You hate that, but. Yeah.

Be cool. Be cool if the, if the hot start continued. I know maybe you disagree with that, but I'd love to see the, I'd love to see the, the Jets get slaughtered in London by Sam Darnold. That feels like a poetic moment.

All right, let's move on. MVP picks are in. I think we both had Josh Allen as the runner up, and you had Jaden Daniels as the leader, and I had Sam Darnold as the leader. Let's get to Offensive Player of the Year. I'll take honors on this one. My offensive player of the year is Nico Collins, wide receiver for the Houston Texans. He has 100 more receiving yards than anyone else than the NFL.

And, I mean, his quiet game was 4 for 86. I mean, he's been over 100 and 100 yards in three or four games. and I mean his ability to just get loose all the time is it's crazy to me man this guy's this guy's ability he's open down the field all the time I'm not I'm not comparing him to Justin Jefferson but I think the same type of lens that you that you apply to like you're watching the Vikings you're like how how is 18 like why is nobody near him down the field that happens a lot with Nico Collins too but also he's a route winner he's a leverage winner he makes big time catches. I think that Nico Collins is the, is been the best non-quarterback offensive

player in the NFL so far this season. Yeah, Joe, I'm, I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't even think it's close. He's been that good. Look at every metric there is. The guys just dominates, you know, yards per route run is a big one. That's a big indicator of future success. Nico's an ass man. He was a top five ass man last year, and he's, he's separating at a high level again this year. I think what I love most about Nico Collins is he is the total package. Big body long alpha type receiver with elite body control and the dude can run legitimate routes. You know, he's got somewhat Mike Evans in him in that regard, maybe not quite as fast as Mike Evans, but just a total package wide receiver who can literally do anything. And he's literally taken over

three of the four Texans games this year where he's just said, I mean, like it's just my game. I remember the Bears game was that a was that a Sunday night or a Monday night game but that was uh they stopped throwing at him in the second half and I have no idea why he was literally dominating the Bears defense who have a pretty good secondary actually so yeah love Nico he uh one of my favorite stats about him 27 first downs or touchdowns through four weeks which is pretty absurd um one man wrecking crew that leads the NFL by a fairly wide margin so um Nico Collins is also my offensive player of the year I gave consideration to Derek Henry running back for the Baltimore Ravens, two monster games back to back against Buffalo and Dallas. It wasn't hard for me to settle on Nico Collins. Let me tell you why I didn't pick Derek Henry, who, I mean, he leads the NFL with 480 rushing yards, leads the NFL with five rushing touchdowns.

I, again, this is going to sound like I'm diminishing Derek Henry, and I'm not. I'm really not meaning to do that. I'm picking him number two, right? That's a lot of respect for Derek Henry. His yards before contact is insane. If you go to the fantasy points data suite, his adjusted yards before contact is 3.3-1 before he's touched on average.

And one of my biggest complaints about the bill's performance against Baltimore was they gave Baltimore light boxes on 41% of their rushing attempts. They only gave him heavy boxes on 8.8% of their rushing attempts. They didn't make Derek Henry be special, right? Like there's a lot of running backs. There's a hundred different running backs that would have had very comparable production to what Derek Henry had against Buffalo. And so he is producing, he's in this conversation.

Hall of Fame career. Like I am not trying to take anything away from Derek Henry. But you want to talk about a lot of clear air production. I think that's probably true for Derek Henry, at least through a couple of these games. Yeah. So not to rub salt in the wound here, Joe. But again, my number two pick. Like before people lose.

their minds my number two pick yeah 87 of those yards before contact came on one play against the bills and he that's not the only time that's happened either he's had i think he'd a 29 yarder against the raiders where he was literally untouched um yeah Ravens old lines kind of picked it up a little bit and i think that's good right they they start run blocking at least yeah yeah they struggled against the chiefs though and then even you know first half of the raiders game they were just getting bullied and then all of a sudden, you know, they went to a more zone-heavy approach and it's a little more man-duro and oh, all of a sudden getting some more double teams on that front. Things happen a little bit, you know? So, um, felt, feel pretty good about where they're at. But yeah,

Henry's having a great season. But, uh, for the reason you listed is exactly why I also did not go Derek Henry because the offensive lines getting it done. Plus the threat of Lamar. But think about this, Joe, you mentioned the bills in their light box approach. So to make that even crazy. Some of those light boxes were even dime looks against the Ravens 12 personnel, which is a weird decision. And then on top of that, when you're attacking

Reed option to virtually every run, you're getting a man advantage in a lot of ways because somebody has to keep their eyes on Lamar. So you're getting a light box, plus an extra little bit of boost with the light box because you know, defenses have to respect Lamar's running ability. So it is, and I

kind of predicted Henry would have a season like this because of that. Like, this is the most favorable situation he's ever had in his career. Yeah, no doubt. Two closing thoughts on Derek Henry. First of all, I think Derek Henry and his skill set and his profile as a player is part of the reason he goes untouched. There's business decisions made along the way, right?

So he gets credit for that, right? Like, that's part of it. It's not just that people are moved out of the way for him to run. People don't want to get in his way. So that he gets credit for that. The other thing is Patrick Ricard boy. that dude that dude's blowing people up man you want to talk about a weapon as a as a lead blocker man they got him going on some lamb blocks and getting him out in space boy he kills people

he i don't i don't love a lot of fullbacks but that guy that guy's different that guy is absolutely different yeah that talk about business decisions if i'm a if i'm a safety coming to fill my gap i don't think i want to meet patrick or brother your choices are tackled derrick henry or take on Patrick or card. You sometimes people say I choose death. Well, death is the only option here. Yeah, the three-way split of death. Not great.

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All right. Let's move on to defensive player of the year, Brett Whitefield. I've got two players down, prepared to make sure that we have different options. But it is your turn to go first. So I have a clear winner here, but I also have a runner up. Clear winner. Please, you didn't have a clear winner also. So we probably prepare.

paired the same to you guys. My winner is Aidan Hutchinson. The man I predicted to win this award actually in our preview show. Listen, I mean, leads the NFL in sacks. I have, I have him with the past rush win rate of 36% Joe. That'd be the highest mark in several years since Aaron Donald's peak actually. So that's, that's impressive, dude. He is getting after it. You can see the way teams are handling him too. And that's why I really, really love what I'm seeing is he's learned to defeat the pressure or he's learned to defeat the the brigade that they throw out to stop him he's getting tight end chips and running back chips shoot seattle was chipping him with dkate mccath last night they they line up metcalf in the slot in this reduced look and then you know metcalf probably

a little stronger than even some of their tight ends and he was popping aiden just to try to slow him down disrupt them and he was still winning still getting home um man i just so impressed with what aiden's done he's he's really turned into a complete pass rusher as well. People are going to say this in response. And I think you already answered the question. They're going to say, well, Rams without Alaric Jackson, bucks without Luca Deky and Justin Skull's playing right tackle. Arizona was a Kelvin Beecham on the right tackle.

And then Seattle, what are they down to the third guy at right tackle? That's going to be the detractor in the Aiden Hutchinson conversation. But I think to your point, that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of challenges for Aiden Hutchinson with the attention he draws from Chippers. and having to beat multiple players. So just because he's not beating Penae Sewell on every snap, well, that would be hard because they play in the same team. You know, it's people, people, people,

and people's success. And that's what you hear about Aiden right now. It's also the NFL, dude. Like, injuries are, like, both the Seahawks and Lions came into that game last night, just beat the hell. Like, their lions need their by week. Like, they have so many injuries. It's just the NFL.

It's the way it is. Like, and also, we haven't seen a precipitous jump for Aiden. And he was this good last year. He just wasn't finishing sacks at the highest rate. Now he's finished some more sacks this year. I think that's probably why more people are noticing him. But he led the NFL pressures last year. So, I mean, it's, it is what it is.

Buy a week for the Detroit Lions coming up. And then at Dallas, at Minnesota, Titans, at Peckers, at Texans, four to five coming out of the buy, six of, wow, five of seven out of the buy on the road. And then they have a bunch of home games. So, yep. big opportunity to reset, focus for the road, and then you close out this year at home, man. That's crazy.

Yeah, that's my pick. Aidan Hutchinson's my pick. The runner up to me is Xavier McKinney, four picks in four games. And he's not giving up much in coverage at all. But I think the answer is Aiden Hutchinson. I'm comfortable with that. My runner up was Miles Garrett, just so we're.

Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. If you actually look at like their metrics side by side, they're very close. Hutch has just finished. you know, a few more sacks. And I think generally had a, he's, he's, I don't want to say he means more to the lines

defense than Garrett means to the Browns defense. Because I think that would, that would sound off some alarms. But the lines have less talent on their defense than I would say the Browns do. So I think maybe that is actually true. Yeah. And I think probably game scripts don't help Miles Garrett very often, right? Like you're not getting good complimentary football at all. Like that often stinks.

So that, that's going to make it a little bit more difficult, uh, to really. get those chances to really rush. Okay, let's do the rookies now. We have offensive rookie of the year, defensive rookie of the year. Offensive rookie of the year is cut and dry. It's Jaden Daniels. You picked him for NFL MVP. He's the offensive rookie of the year, right?

Well, just for the sake of discussion, I picked another player here. Okay, go ahead. I've went Malik neighbors. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's obvious. Yeah. Second in the league in receiving right now. They don't have another good player on that

offense. He's at the point now already where people know the ball is going to Malik neighbors and he still produces. And he gets open. He's a dog. He wins after the catch. He wins and leverage battles down the field. Like he's very quickly telling us that he's going to be a really high impact playmaker in the league for a long time. Yeah. And a lot of it's, it is volume.

They're just just trying to somebody. He is the most targeted player in the league too. Yeah, that's worth pointing out. Yeah. So he's producing a little bit because of volume, but he is getting open. I think he's, you know, relative, he's got a respectable ass for sure, you know. And then you see the other stuff too, body control. You know, he's got some run after catchability. So yeah, I like him. So it's Daniels and then to be interesting, you bring up Malik neighbors. And I think that's really it. I mean, I'm not sure that there's been a whole lot of impressive things happening for any other rookie receiver at this, or rookie player at this point. Marv, after a week one flop, Marvin Harrison Jr. is really four touchdowns. Yeah.

Four to the pounds of three weeks. He looks pretty good. One dark horse here, and I think maybe as we extrapolate the season on, could really start tearing it up as Brian Thomas Jr. in Jacksonville. Every time I watch a Jacksonville game where I'm like just paying attention to what's happening, he's the only guy making place, right? Legitimately the only guy making place. So I think if that coaching staff wants to save their, save themselves,

they got to start dialing more stuff up for BTJ here. He looks really, really good. That lad, my conkey touchdown catch against Kansas City was pretty awesome, too. That was nasty as well. He's had some good moments. Yep. Okay, as much more interesting conversation exists with defensive rookie of the year, and I guess it's my turn to go first.

Thank God. Yeah, this one, NFL rookies on defense, folks, it's wide open. If you start making some plays, you're probably going to win the award because we need that to happen. I do have two options, but I feel stronger about one, and this is going to come with a lot of pushback from one Brett Whitefield. My pick is Camarie Lasseter. corner Texans. He has been targeted 17 times.

He's given up seven catches. He has an interception, a passer rating against his coverage of 42, and he's one of just five defensive rookies that have logged over 200 snaps so far this season. So has he given up a couple of plays down the field? Yes. But at the end of the day, he's had production, he's limited production, and he's played a lot. In a race that to me is wide open. I don't like that you did that to me.

Right. No, I came ready. I came ready for the fight because I knew you weren't going to like to pick, but I gave hard data that makes it hard to say, you know what? He's not deserving. And it's not like you have this Rolodex of options right now that are going to really knock him off the hill. I don't know that we've ever disagreed more on something.

Wow. From what I've seen from Kamar Lasseter is I don't think he's shown he's an NFL corner. I think maybe a, you know, a safety or a nickel. I'm not sure. They have Jalen Petrie, so he's not playing nickel anytime soon. Although, you know what? All three of those guys have really disappointed me, Stingley. Petrie and Lasseter.

But listen, I know you cited the catch is allowed. It's what seven. I think I have him for nine, but that's, that's interesting. Here's the deal. The, the plays he hasn't allowed were not because of him. He has a,

he has not a single force in completion. He's been beat deep five or six times where the, a bad ball saved him from giving up a 60, a 70, an 80 yard touchdown. Obviously, you were afraid of his ball skills and had to throw it further. than they wanted to. Yeah, balls. Clearly that's what it can.

Zero forcing completions on the season. There's an interception. So I would count that as potentially one. It was, no, it was, it was a tip drill interception. Yeah. Who's your pick? Who's your pick? Tell me somebody that's been better. Well, and that's the hard. Well, I can tell you a lot of people have been better. But, um, I'm, I'm struggling here, Joe. I'm going to go, I'm going to go Jared verse. That was my number two. Those are your number two? Okay. I think, um, you know, for, for as much as a lot of people liked this defensive line class.

They just really haven't played good or haven't played. That's another thing, right? So Jared Verse, he looks like a legit pass rusher. The speed to power looks like it's translating to the NFL. I think he's got what, three and a half sacks or three sacks, two and a half, something like that. Decent win rate, I think his win rates, you know. His win rate's extremely high. Yeah.

Yeah. He's played a lot of snaps. He's played 179 snaps, which very comfortably the most for a deep. defensive lineman. Like it's a hundred and twenty three from Tavondre sweat is the next highest outside of Brayden Fisk on his own team. Otherwise you look at defensive snap counts. It's all corners, safeties, you know, that play every snap. Yeah. I do have a runner up, but it's just so not sexy. Who's that? Tavondry sweat. Ah, he's worth talking about. He's worth. His run defense is insane. He is a brick

freaking wall. You know, and I thought the Titans would have the worst run defense in the league. Boy, they're tough. Yeah. Yeah. Him and Simmons just. Good luck. Good freaking luck. You got to beat them on the edge if you're going to win. And those edge defenders are playing pretty good in run defense right now too. But Devondry's sweat just looks. I mean, it translated right away, run stopping nose at Texas and just plug and play guy

here in the NFL. And it's hard because it's like you're not going to win a ton of accolades as a runstopper, right? But he's a beast, man. And just that's how scarce the rookie production has been, though, for defense, right? I think its impact is obvious, though. I mean, you want to talk about trying to fit the run. with too high, a guy like this matters, right?

And he's a record, dude. Like, he blows people up left and right. I think he's been very, very impressive. I think it's a great callout. I think we got to a good mix of players to talk about for that conversation. Good. Last one is coach of the year. My turn to throw, isn't it?

Your turn to throw. All right. I'm going to go Kevin O'Connell. Most of the reasons you picked Sam Donald for MVP, I actually attribute that success to Kevin O'Connell, what he's done with Sam Darnold, the growth he's pulled out of Sam Darnold. It's awesome.

It's nothing sort of amazing. Vikings sit at 4 and O. No one projected that. Everyone thought this was a, hey, develop the roster, be competitive, but no pressure kind of season. And no, they're like, hey, we want this. We want this right now. We're not waiting until JJ's healthy. We're just going after and getting it.

And I think that team marches to the beat of KOC's drum. I think Brian Flores is a great coordinator as well. that higher. I also give KOC credit for that. I know that wasn't this year. That was last year. But yeah, just all the way around, I think the culture change, everything you're seeing from the Vikings, it starts with him. And, uh, undisputed pick right now for me is Kevin O'Connell. He's my pick as well. But I think, I think that there is a someone else that's knocking on the door that I think deserves credit. So I'll bring him up. And it's, um, it's Dan Quinn, Dan Quinn with the Washington commanders. I think there's so many parallels Brett Whitefield between,

Dan Quinn and Washington and Jaden Daniels to Houston, Demico Ryan, C.J. Strapped. Very, very similar. Like defensive coach, number two pick, get the quarterback that probably should have went number one, massive turnover with the roster. You know what I mean? Like Washington changed a million starters this off season,

literally a million. I mean, how many are returning? Not many. It can't be many at all. And so a lot of new pieces with the rookie quarterback. that you're clearly maximizing your three and one. We talked about all the success that Jaden's having. And I think Dan Quinn is the head coach deserves a lot of credit for the process

in which they've embraced to put Jaden in these positions to be successful, which includes, I mean, like trading away the perceived number two receiver in Jahan Dotson, right? Like they've made it work, man. I'm really impressed. Obviously things, you know, it's a long season, but through four weeks, the three and one Washington commanders. And like, look, I think a lot of coach of the year is tied to who's exceeding your expectations. I didn't expect anything from Washington. I thought they might

win five games. They've got three already. And I think that's for for Minnesota as well. Like, you, you have JJ goes down. You're, you feel like they've transitioned a lot of that roster as well. Like I think the Vikings deserve a lot of credit for, you know, they had their year one success with KOC, but then they stay committed to like this roster transition and purge. and they've been saying goodbye to players. And like, yeah, I think it's outstanding. But my expectations weren't high. The bills have the Vikings second round pick this year.

And I think into myself, wow, that's probably top 40 pick, top 45 pick. That's not looking that way right now. So yeah, you talk about exceeding expectations. I think Kevin O'Connell and Dan Quinn have both shattered them through four games. I said in my, my COC talk, it was undisputed for me. You just disputed it very adequately. And I think you're right. I think Quinn deserves every bit as much credit as KOC.

It's funny because I have a group text message with my hometown dudes, my best friends that live here near me. And we're always talking ball in there. And one of the things I just texted them. So some backstory. I'm a psychopath. I watch every snap four times at least. And then I also watch every coach's press conference.

Or I don't watch. I listen to it while I'm working. And then I also, I'll go watch broadcast tape in, I try to read body language because I'm trying to pick up on vibes. And the vibes in Washington are so good. So I texted these guys and just said, hey, I'm, I'm really viving with Dan Quinn and this whole culture change in Washington.

It's really kind of beautiful. And you compared it to Domechia Ryans. I kind of felt like Dan's a little bit more of a Dan Campbell kind of character where he's loud and boisterous and he's a players coach. And guys will literally die for him on the field. And then Cliff Kingsbury, He was ridiculed for signing him as the OC. Cliff is clearly matured.

He's not making a lot of the same mistakes he made in Arizona. And we could devote a whole podcast breaking down Arizona tape and talking about what they're doing a little differently and why it's working so well. But man, you can't say enough about Dan Quinn. It's really been awesome to see. And Washington's been hungry for a good football team for so long. And maybe it doesn't last the whole season.

But man, it sure gives you hope for the future. You know, Brett Whitefield, as somebody who watches most of the games one time, every bill snap a billion times, watches a fair amount of head coaching press conferences. You know how intimidating that is to have to share the mic with you twice a week, knowing that you've seen so much, my guy, you are an absolute machine. All right, let's close out this podcast today by reflecting on the current status of these conferences. AFC, NFC, NFC. Last week we did our power rankings.

We've got some more information. Again, we'll play them all. We'll see what happens. But through the first quarter, let's start with the NFC. I feel like all the conversations always start with the AFC. Let's start with the NFC. What's your prevailing thought when you consider the landscape of the NFC, excuse me, that has one four and O team, the Vikings, no winless teams.

Everyone's won at least one games. What's like your prevailing thought on how this conference is shaping up at this point a year. I think when we did our preseason show, I think we were close on the NFC. I think the only the outlier there's the Vikings and then obviously the commanders, but everyone else is about who I thought they were. I'm not like, I don't know if that's a boring take, but I mean, I thought the 49ers would struggle at times because of the way that roster's built. The lines being, I think the lines are who we thought they were. You know, I think they're a really, really good team that has a flaw or two that can be exposed and if they don't get healthy, that could be a

big problem for them. Bucks, I thought, would be good. So that doesn't shock me. Falcons and Saints battling it out. That doesn't shock me. I don't know, man. There's not a lot in the NFC that's shocking me other than probably the commanders in the Vikings. Yeah, I think that's obvious. The commanders of Vikings, I think, are the two surprises to this point. Which one do you feel better about sustaining their success through the first quarter? Like, which team, when we do this in four weeks are we going to still be feeling better about it's tough because the vikings are playing so good right now but they do play in a division with the lines and the packers who are both awesome so you know things could change in a hurry let's just say for argument's sake the vikings lose all four of those

games in division i mean that's that puts a damper on your season real quick where i look at the washington commanders and i am not scared of the dallas cowboys and i am certainly not scared of the philadelphia eagles those teams are are very flawed um and they're the flaws we thought they'd have have been true and it's probably even worse than we we put it on in the preseason here it's it's bad so i'm i don't want to say the vikings or i don't want to say the commanders because that sounds like i'm the lion's homer again but it just feels like in a division that's wide open you'd rather be in the commander situation than the viking i tend to agree and i think the packers and lions are both going to play better football like i don't that that's to the to i guess to

did the discredit of the Vikings, like maybe they've peaked as a team already. You know what I mean? Like, and there's a lot more football left to be played and where I think the Packers and Lions have the most ground to make up there. I do think that commanders are at a huge advantage playing in the NFC East where I literally don't have much respect for any team in that division. And even with the commanders, like, I am nervous about their defense. And if they can not be a stumbling block, I mean, they give up 102 points.

And it's not like they've been playing world beaters. So I, their secondary metrics are all bad and I don't really find myself optimistic for how it's going to get dramatically better this season. So I have concerns about both teams sustaining where they're at, but I think I might feel a little bit better about Washington due to the divisional landscape comparing the two. Is there anybody at the bottom of this conference? You got we got four, one and three teams. do you feel like anyone's positioned well to like get out of a hole or are the Cardinals, Rams, Panthers and Giants at one and three just too deep right now? You know, the team to pick would probably be the Rams, but they're so injured.

Man, they needed that one against the Bears. Like if they were two and two, it would be so much different. For sure. And then you potentially get Cooper Cup back at a certain point, Pooka back at a certain point. But as it stands right now, man, they're just, they're so beat up. It's hard to see them winning close football games when they don't they don't have their dudes, you know. Last one in this last one on the NFC. What NFC South team do you feel the best about right now?

Tampa Bay. I'm steadfast in that. I think they were the top of my power rankings a week ago from that division. So yeah, Tampa Bay. Minus the blemish, was it Denver that beat the breaks off them? Denver's defense might not be that bad. Right. Yeah, they've come alive.

You actually saw this last year where they were terrible for the first two, three games of the season, and then they evened out. And then the last five, six weeks, they were actually good. Right. So anyways, I think Tampa, I think Baker's playing really good football. Not to say Derek Carr isn't, but Baker, he's really, really impressed me. The weapons they have, the defense, Zion McCollum looks like a legit cornerback. We know Dane is a good player.

He's never really elevated himself to CB1 status. So getting Zion McCollum there is great. Christian Ision looks like a dude. Antoine Woodfield's coming back. There's a lot going right for Tampa. I kind of feel pretty good about where they're at right now. I feel like Atlanta is the team, though. No, I agree with Tampa Bay is the team I feel best about in the south.

I think Atlanta is a team that can wreck the party. I believe I feel better about them than I do in Orleans or Carolina. Okay. Let's talk. Did you have something else on FC? Yeah. When I look at Atlanta's roster top to bottom, the two and two doesn't necessarily make.

sense to me. Like they probably should be three and one. So I think they have a good roster. Yeah, I think they should be three and one and I think they had a bad draw on week one against Pittsburgh. So yeah, I'm pretty comfortable with where Atlanta's at, especially how they're playing.

Shifting gears to the AFC. We have one four and O team. It's the Kansas City Chiefs. And like they're not playing good ball. There's no question. And they have their top two receivers for She Rice and Hollywood Brown are both injured. But still 4-0. And if there's anything I've learned from watching the Patriots and now the Chiefs is don't fall for it. Like don't talk yourself into them having a down year. Like they're

playing bad ball with injuries and they're 4-0. Should they, could they be any, like, if they played four games, any record within that would make sense based on watching the games, but they're 4-0. Brother, I, I joked with my team, my data team in our, or company chat and I said, hey guys, for the 30 in a row, I'm about to go on a podcast and talk about how bad Patrick Mahomes is playing. Because this is the 30 year in a row, man. Like I watched the tape.

I'm like, what is he doing? I don't, I mean, the turnovers are starting to get a bit much. He's not making those big time. He had the big bomb to Xavier Worthy. But other than that, not really making the big time plays. We're used to. But I'm not falling for it, Joe. I'm not doing it.

I did it two years in a row, not doing it this year. I just think they don't care. they don't care about the regular season we've talked about this at nauseam at this point i just think they coasts man late stage new england patriots vibes where it's just we know who we are we got business to take care of and we'll win 11 12 games getting the playoffs and and then go for it so it's it's annoying it's really annoying and and you know you said this your third year in a row what happened the last two brett whitefield yeah who's who won the last two super bowls i'm looking at the uh fantasy Data Suite for Patrick Mahomes metrics.

His catchable ball percentage, 78.5%, 13th in the NFL. So very much middle of the pack. Wow, you know who leads in that? Jaden Daniels, 87.7. That's pretty impressive. Let's see. You said hero throws. Where's Patrick Mahomes?

Wow, 18th, 2.5% hero throws. What's a hero throw? It's an attempt or a quarterback makes an extraordinary throw that maximizes the result of the play. Number one here, Josh Allen, 10.9%. I think that's fun to say. But Patrick Mahomes, like you said, like the crazy good, wow, that's a unicorn place.

Not quite as often. Only 2.5%. Man, he's down here. He's down here with Kirk Cousins and Deshawn Watson. You know what I mean? This is not good company. I mean, Bo Nix is at 2.2%. Man, Lamar Jackson, 1.9%.

Yeah, we're, that's a conversation right there. What's going on with the Ravens pass game, bro? They don't need it. They don't need it. They don't need it. Dude, are we going to do this again where they're going to go on a run, get to the playoffs, and then they can't pass the ball so they just get blown out in the playoffs? Yeah, but if the game script goes the way they wanted, it might not matter, right?

Is it ever? I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. It's a concern. It's a concern. But here we are. Explain Mark Andrews to me. I can't.

I mean, even he was wide-ass open in that game, he dropped the ball. Yeah, that. That was sad look. I told you, I'm like going. I study vibes. I literally went back and watched the broadcast copy of that game. And I'm just watching Mark Andrews on every snap. I'm watching him before the snap, after the snap.

When he's on the sideline, Joe, I'm just staring at him trying to get a, because he only, he's getting out snaps now by Isaiah likely. Charlie Kohler's playing six, or running six routes. And Mark Andrews is only running 11. Like, but you go look at our metrics. He's, he was the tight end leader and ass coming into the. the week. He's separating. They have no vertical passing attack at all, dude. No, I think one of eight. Lamar's one of eight on 20 plus this year, I'm pretty sure.

And he's just not even trying him. It's no. And I guess the one thing you thought was true about Lamar Jackson was his chemistry with Mark Andrews. Like that's been the tried and true thing throughout his career. It's not, not right now for sure. And he's like, but this is two weapons now between Rashad Baton and Mark Andrews. All I ever hear about is how open they are. And all I ever see is that they don't have any production. I have an untweeted thread on my phone. Maybe I'll tweet one day of just Rashad Bateman just destroying his corner all in one game. And Lamar literally looking right at him and not throwing him the ball. Did you see the dagger concept that they ran? I don't remember who it was targeted. And for some reason, he like double clutches the ball and then he

eventually throws it. I think it was Nelson Aguilar. I had to make a crazy good player. It's like, boy, you were staring right at it. That uncovered so quickly. You could have, you could have taken three extra hitches and, and had a wide open target, but like you took way more than that. You climbed the pocket. You threw an inaccurate ball and like all of a sudden it went from the easiest completion of your life to an overthrow and you're lucky it wasn't picked. Yeah, he, he, he fundamentally isn't the same right now. It's like he's not seeing it. I mean, he's always not seen it super clear, a little slow of a trigger for sure. But man, it's, it's probably the worst I can remember it in the NFL. So not great. But I was going to say about Andrews, he's not showing any

signs of, of a player who's downtrodden. Like, like, Devonta Adams has given off. I want out vibes everywhere, right? I'm not getting Mark Andrews. He's on the sidelines pumping up his teammates. He's talking to coach. He's, you know, even after who scored the touchdown in that game. Which one? Brett Whitefield. Reception in the back right corner of the end zone. It was, uh, Justice Hill. Justice Hill on the wheel route. Andrew's the first guy over there and he ran all sprinted across the field, picks him up,

celebrating with them. So I'm not getting vibes of a player who's in the doghouse at all. Getting vibes of a leader who's still who's still the leader. He's just not involved in the script. I don't know. Super weird, man. Let's get a little further into the AFC landscape. I want to give you some teams here.

You tell me if they're cooked or if there's a path forward. And these are all potential. I mean like teams that you would predict to go to the playoffs. Browns, Dolphins, Bengals, Jaguars. Jaguars 0 and 4, the other three at one in three. I'm not uncommon to see those teams picked to go to the playoffs.

In some ways, it feels like the season's over for some of those teams. That was Browns, Dolphins, Bengals, Jaguars? Yeah, all one and three are worse. Okay, Jaguars are done. That's obvious. Cooked. Doug Peterson's vibes are bad. Speaking of listening to coaches, that's

did you hear his recent press conference? I can't with this. Brother, I'm someone who lives my life. with the mantra of extreme ownership, if you and I get into a disagreement or we're actually upset with each other, that's never happened, by the way. But if that did happen,

even if I thought you were in the wrong, you were 97% at fault for our disagreement, I would still come to you and own the 3% and say, Joe, dude, I'm sorry, I said that. I'm sorry, I did that. There is none of that happening with Doug Peterson right now. He is. Bad leadership.

It's terrible. And the way it comes across is so, pompous and arrogant. I don't know how a player would play for that. Like, it's, it's, it's bad. We've been saying it, though, vibes are bad there. So they're done. The Bengals, they have so much talent on offense. It's hard to see. I can't say they're done, right? Like, when Jamar Chase and Tehiggins are playing, Joe Burroughs is a different player. It's weird. I got to call a pause. Okay. Because of the bang. Like this, you and I had a conversation pre-show about about getting the ball first and managing games and how that impact.

your decisions in the second quarter. The Bengals beat the Panthers because of this. The Panthers got the ball first. They go down to the goal line and stall out. They get zero points, right? So now they're down a position to start. Bengals double dip, right? They're middle eight.

They go plus 14 with a touchdown to close the second half and a touchdown to start the third quarter. I think they won the game because of it, Brett Whitefield. I agree. Point being, that's the Bengals one win. They're one and three because of that to beat the Panthers. Yeah, I don't disagree with you. They, from a situational football standpoint, they executed that whole game, right?

Even when you thought Carolina is going to come back, defense step. But here's the thing, though, because of what you're saying, because they were able to control the scoreboard, the onus was on the Panthers to then go make a play. And that's a much better situation to be in than I have to go make a play. So much, yeah, I agree. Can you say that, do you agree that Burrough is a different player with those guys? Like weeks three and four, and I know they didn't win week three, but still weeks with three and four, he looks like an entirely different quarterback than he did weeks one and two. I'd expect that to be the case, right? Like, for sure. When you spend so much resources drafting secondary pass catchers, whether it's, you know, Yoshavos or the kid from Purdue or, and I know not every draft pick works out, or, or Jemaine Burton this year and Eric All and you signed Chase or draft Chase Brown last year, you bring in Mike Gisicki.

You can't just throw your entire offense out because you're missing one guy. I hate when this has always been Zach Taylor's thing, too. They did this last year when either Higgins or Chase was missing. The offense completely shifted. Went to the stupid low A-DOT, you know, low efficiency offense. It's terrible. I hate it. But anyways, they're all back, so I feel good about them.

They beat and ball. They're going to be, we're losing to Baltimore next week. They're going to one and four, right? Where's the game being played? In Cincinnati. Doesn't Cincinnati kind of have Lamar's number? I don't know, man. I think the Ravens are hot right now.

They are hot. I think the Ravens are hot. Can the Bengals stop that rushing attack? No, they can't. No, they can't. The Bengals, the Bengals rush defense has not been good this year. They've given up 120. They've given up 220 last week to the Panthers and 248 to the commanders a week before.

They're getting steam rolled, baby. It's going to be ugly. It's going to be ugly. Yeah. So, I don't know. I don't feel good about Cincinnati. Cleveland's one and three. Remember this team was, this team was 12 and five last year.

They're almost all. They're almost all the way to their loss total from last year. Can they overcome bad quarterback play again? No. If they make a change of James Winston, I'll change my tune. But I think Watson's, although Watson probably had his best game of the season this past week. But also a terrible moment at the end. You can't eat the ball in that situation.

You didn't give your team a chance. Didn't give your team a chance. Pittsburgh Steelers at 3 and 1. Are we good here? Is this going to be the inevitable Pittsburgh Steelers that's going to find a way to win 10 games to go to the postseason? or not. I think that's probably where they're at. I think if I had to bet right now,

I'd say the Ravens eventually overtake them for the division lead, but I do think what you said is spot on, get the 10 wins, make the postseason, squeak. Justin Fields had a fantastic game, though, this past week. If he can do more of that, then they should be late. It's the first game where he really had to, like, make a bunch of plays. I think the worst thing for Pittsburgh was Anthony Richardson getting hurt.

offense is better with Joe Flacco because he runs it. Miami's cooked one and three. Two, I mean, problems. You want to talk about bad vibes, by the. That's what's happening in Miami. I mean, they're cooked. I don't think they have a path to the postseason. Do you think the Jets can challenge the bills in the east or we overreacting to

Aaron Rogers having one good game against the Patriots on a short week? So Rogers looks good to me. So, like, I think that could turn around to any point because Rogers does look good to me, but the lack of consistency with that offense is so weird. Like, like this week, for example, they just couldn't run the football. What's up with that? Like, Breeze Hall, what do you average? One yard of carry in this game?

Yeah. Was that what it was? I mean, I don't think the rushing offense has been that good at all this year. Well, no, but at least from a volume standpoint, they've been good enough to like, hey, we'll generate an explosive here, generate an explosive there. And that, you know, getting third and manageable at least. They weren't doing that in this game. I mean, Breeze 10 carries for four yards.

Yikes. And I don't know. They don't have the dogs at pass catcher either. Mike Williams doesn't look the same. Lazzard's never really been a guy I'm too excited about. Wilson's awesome, but he's getting shadow treatment and or rolled coverages everywhere. They're going to have to figure something out there. I just, I don't know.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think the Jets can push the bills at all. So you think it's the, so you're feeling like we have, The Bills and Chiefs are pretty comfortable in their division. Houston's probably comfortable in the South, right? Like, even though I don't think Houston's played great ball, I don't think it's going to matter. I don't think there's any competition. Yeah, the quarterback thing with Richardson is just disappointing. He's just not running the offense, as you said.

Well, so we don't know the diagnosis yet on Richardson, but like, is a Joe Flacco Indianapolis team, one that can make some noise? Or, like, defensively, are they just cooked? Like, it might be the worst defense in the league. Prohibitive to winning, in my opinion. Fletco. Fletco will help that defense. Dude, they're at Jacksonville, Tennessee, Miami as their next three.

Jeez. Well, two of those three are on the road, but like, come on. Come on. Five and two, though. You feel pretty good about where you're at. Five and two, but then you go into this stretch at Houston, at Minnesota, Buffalo, the Jets, at Detroit. So good luck.

Good luck there. You better get to five and two. That's indie schedule? Yeah. Their next three, Jaguars, Titans, Dolphins. Okay, great. We got a chance to get to five and two. At Houston, at Minnesota, Buffalo, at the Jets, Detroit. Oh my gosh. That's a, yeah, that's crazy. Before finishing with Patriots, Broncos, Titans, Giants, and Jaguars. Wow. Right. That's crazy. So they had a chance. They could be a team legitimately at like

5 and 5 or 5 and 6 that ends up making a late run. because that and there week 14 by week week week into broncos titans giants jaguars don't sleep on the colds they're going to roller coaster season i'm just saying it right right right right they'll be all overplace with them all year we'll see if they're i mean defense though is is just a real problem um but i i don't know i'm not sleeping on them but i still think houston's probably got to be feeling pretty comfortable about their chances in the south and then the north and the north i mean it sort of feels open. I feel like the Ravens are in the driver's seat, but the Steelers are currently leading the division at 3 and 1. You know, the Bengals can certainly get hot and then

Cleveland. Let's talk a wild card in this conference, Joe. Okay. I mean, look at the AFC West. You got three, two, and two teams. You take any of these teams seriously here? I'm taking them seriously because of the overall status of the conference, right? Like, I think it definitely looks different than you thought going into the season where you're, I mean, you're sort of writing off Miami, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Cleveland. Like, those teams are not in the mix. Did you really think Tennessee was ever in the mix? No, but I'm just saying we're writing off five or six teams in this conference already. Oh, and the Patriots. Yeah. So if we're writing off, yeah, we're writing off a lot of teams. Seven, make it.

Seven, go to the postseason. You're right now, and there's 16 in the conference. We're writing off five already. Six, I think, right? Six. One, two, three, four, five, six. Yeah, we're writing off. So there's 10 teams for seven spots. Yeah, buddy, you're in it. You are in it. Yeah, that's what I was saying with NFC. It's like the NFC is a little bit more what we thought it would be. AFC is kind of a totally mixed bag right now.

100%. Oh, man. If you had to pick one, one AFC West team to make a wild card, who would it be? Or maybe even two. Maybe you like two teams, but pick who do you like there? If anyone's going to make a run, who's it going to be? It's not Denver. So it gives me.

Bow next. No, okay. I'm going with the team with the best quarterback and. Yeah. You know, in probably the best coach, for sure the best coach, Chargers. Yeah. My number five coach in the NFL that was made fun of for saying. At the end of the day, they have wins over the Panthers and Raiders, the Bryce Young Panthers.

And they scored 10 points against Pittsburgh and Kansas City each. Herbert kind of looked back this week, though. Did you, did you watch him? I watched a good amount of that game. Yeah, I mean. He's dimes, bro. He's got some of those in his bag. Yeah, I guess the Chargers is the, is the,

team that I feel best about is a playoff contender. That was another game, by the way, where the Chiefs were just begging the Chargers to win the entire game. How many times, how many, I think in the fourth quarter, the Chargers got the ball back four times with a 10-10 game and couldn't go down and get points. You can't do that, especially when you have Justin Herbert as your quarterback. Yeah, the second half was, bro, second half for the Chargers, missed field goal, turnover on downs after 14 plays, a three and out, and a punt with, and they punt it with

249 left in the game. Where did they punt from? Was that a coward? They punted from, no, they put, yeah, I mean, no, not really. It's fourth and 15. They punt, it was 17 to 10, fourth and 15 from the Chargers 41. So from their own 41 on fourth and 15, they punted with 326 left in the game. I'm not sure you have much of a choice there.

No. But then you're, you have to do the thing where you stop Patrick Mahomes at the, end of the game and they couldn't wow all right they got them to a third and six as well and then mohams hit worthy for 15 yards and that was the game so they got him in this they had this they had in their best chance but at the end but like you you can't come away with i mean brett holy smokes there's more to say here this this brother so so wow okay is the charger start off touchdown field goal. They have 10 points on their first two possessions. Punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt,

miss field goal, turnover on downs, punt, punt. That's, you had every chance. You had every chance. Some of these punts, too, four plays, eight yards, three plays, nine yards, three plays one yard, three plays negative eight yards. Like, they just couldn't get anything going. J.K. Dobbins, I, I mean, that was a tough situation running the football. That's where an over commitment to the run, too, also scares me a little bit with them. 24 rushing attempts for an average of 2.3 yards of carry. Herbert was kind of hobbled up the whole game, though.

Like it felt like they were trying to manage around his. I agree. His best throw, though, was on the run to his left that dime down the sideline. Like, what the heck? That was a wizard throw. I don't know. I mean, plenty of to learn. I think they're in a decent spot.

They're in a decent spot right now. They have a lot to learn and build off of. but yeah i think they're going to be looking at this past one as a lot of missed opportunity and a fun fun game here at denver this coming week so like low-key fun game sweet um how you feeling we you think we're good here we're good we're good all right remember folks no matter what develops we will always be your first read thank you for listening we are out