Fantasy Football Daily - NFL First Read | Training Camp Battles

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino to dive into the training camp battles you want to be locked in on. Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First read. We are your first read, the film and analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of Lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the C.O of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. Let's get after it. Joe, how are you, sir? Brett Whitefield, every single NFL team has training camp underway. How am I? It couldn't be better, my guy. Football is here. heck yeah and we started off the dan campbell did his introductory press conference this morning like saying hey what's up everybody we're back in camp he had a banger of a quote and dan's known for some bangers of quotes but he had one that i thought was really good and he said we don't live off reputation we live off work there's a price to be paid and we got to go pay it again that got me juiced up this morning i was like goosebumps galore you know i dig it uh first of all

the whole podium situation with Campbell. I mean, that thing, that thing was the, I mean, just the largest podium in the history of the world. So you saw it. Well, I saw the pictures of it. And the only thing I could think about was imagine Bryce Young behind that podium. You know, would you even be able to see him? You know, so, okay, there's a little Bryce Young slander. But how cool is it that the head coach of the Detroit Lions is talking about reputation and how it doesn't matter.

Like, I know. The glow up is real in Detroit, man. I'm looking forward to that Bill's Lion Super Bowl here in February. Yeah, still plus 5,000 to go bet that Super Bowl right now on draft Kings. They're not a sponsor, but I just promote them. It's for that specific matchup or for Detroit to go there? For Detroit versus Buffalo Super Bowl, it's plus 5,000. Man, it's, as I've said before, it's the Super Bowl that America needs.

It deserves. Yes. We need it. All right. Yeah. I'm super fired up and that is an amazing quote from our coach, Dan Campbell. Yeah, you're a Dan Campbell guy too. Yeah, of course.

I mean, here's the thing about me and the Lions. I like the Lions. I like them. So I'm rooting for their success. Speaking of rooting for success, we've got a lot of guys that are rooting for their own success when you survey the NFL and you're mindful of all of the position battles that are wide open across the league, right?

That's what training camp is for, sorting all of this out, getting reps, getting exposures, seeing what you do with those opportunities. And you and I have spent the last week really going through the depth charts across the league and identifying the position battles that we find to be the most interesting. And we have so many. Like this is the entire focus of today's episode, working through these. And so we'll get to as many as we possibly can. And I want to try to get to some of the most interesting ones early on in this conversation.

And the one I want to start with, Brett, is the Las Vegas Raiders quarterback situation where I think we got a legit, like a legit quarterback battle. There's other quarterback battles. We'll talk about some of them. I think some of them are more of a formality where it's a veteran bridge quarterback versus a first round pick that we just know how this eventually ends. But in the case of Vegas, we have Aidan O'Connell, a fourth round pick from last year that started 11 games. Vegas goes five and six. tough circumstances. I think five and six is a good mark, but the key thing is they win three of their last four. They beat three divisional opponents, right? The other three divisional opponents over that

stretch. And O'Connell, what? He has eight touchdowns, zero interceptions, playing like pretty good football under tough circumstances. And then they bring in Gardner Minshu, two years, $25 million. He's the highest paid veteran quarterback in the NFL that's not like guaranteed to be a starter. Everyone else that's paid more than him APY is an unquestioned starting quarterback. But now you have Garner Minshu. And I think we kind of know what Garner Minchu is. He's like the modern day Ryan Fitzpatrick, a lot of variants, a lot of fun. But for a team in Vegas that you feel like their formula is we're going to run the football,

we're going to play good defense, and we're going to ask our quarterback to keep it between the lines. Maybe O'M, you know, maybe O'Connell's really the right answer for this role. also when you think about solidifying this for the long term, let's find out what we have in Aden O'Connell. I think we have a pretty good idea of who Gardner Minchew is. Maybe O'Connell's going to be that guy long term. I'd want to spend this year sorting that out. But that's obviously a huge setup for me to say, what are your thoughts on this Vegas quarterback battle? Well, I'll say this. Who do you think has the most say other than head coach on who's starting quarterback is?

The owner, Mark Davis. Okay, besides besides staff. Like if there's a player in the locker room. Oh, it's Devante Adams. We learned that through the Receivers Netflix series. That's what I'm going to ask you. Yeah. And if you've watched it, you know,

Devante loves himself, so Maiden O'Connell. Those two headed off pretty well. I would say much better than Adams and Jimmy Carapolo, right? So I think the way the season ended, the, there's this mojo going on in Vegas right now where it's like, hey, we got our head coach.

We got our quarterback. These are blue collar hardworking dudes. I think he's got to be the starter. And what's interesting is with if you tell me he's the starter, bringing in Gardner Minshue actually makes a lot of sense, even considering what they paid him, because you have a low pedigree quarterback in Aiden O'Connell. You're not quite sure if it's, if it's all there or not.

So you want to bring in arguably the best backup in the league, who is probably QB 33, right? And, you know, if it doesn't work out, then you turn to a guy who's pretty good. and your seasons is not completely lost. So it makes complete sense for O'Connell to be the starter. And I think the Minshu signing, he makes even more. Because I just feel like we're in a, like, there's no way in 2024,

we're signing Gardner Minshu to be the starting quarterback. Right? Like doesn't, that seems weird to me. So that, I don't know, that's my take. I think O'Connell's got to be the guy. Minschew makes sense there as the highest paid backup in the league. Yeah, I like it a lot and figure it out. See what you have and then plan on your long-term step being next off-season.

So it feels wide open, but it also feels like it should be O'Connell's job to lose. All right, let's keep it in the AFC West, where the Denver Broncos have a bit of a starting quarterback battle. Bo Nix versus Jared Stidham. I guess Zach Wilson exists in this conversation. But Stidham's the guy that has a year of experience in the Sean Payton offense last year, started two games. Bo Nix is the first round pick that played in 61 games in college.

I said all the stuff to lead the Vegas conversation. Where are you at here in Denver with these quarterbacks? Ironically, Bo Nix and Jared Sidham are both former Auburn Tigers there. You know what? I don't even, I don't even, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. So they both didn't they both transfer at some point? No, I think Stidham.

Didn't he finish at Auburn? Yeah, he was drafted out of Auburn, I think. Why do I feel like this might not be true? That'd be funny, but Bo Nix. So it's like Stidim is getting lauded as the guy with the experience, but Bo, he started at Bay. He started at Baylor and then went to Aubrey. I knew he was somewhere else at some point.

Okay. Gotcha. Stidim's kind of crowned as the guy with the experience, but when you consider their college resumes, Bo Nix has a lot more experience. I mean, that dude, I don't know the total number of dropbacks he had, but it was a lot.

I think it was top five or top 10 all time for sure. So I think Nix has plenty of experience. My guess is, Knicks is the first quarterback that Sean Payton's got to really pick to play for him. I know they signed Stidim as a backup or whatever, but I'm just going to guess he's the guy. That's who wins this job. Really?

I think so. You don't think so? No, I think it's going to be Po Nix. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So I don't think it's as much of a competition as they're leading it on. There's like a, to me, there's a formality element here where it's like, oh, he's got to earn it. You know, but you've heard the way that Sean Baiton's talked about Bo Nix.

He's a guy that's going to be his quarterback. And I think one of my favorite things about Bo from watching him at Oregon, was a mastery of the offense. Like he was in full command. And I talk a lot about the second reaction plays that he showcased in an offense that really, you know, a lot of things are put on a plate for him. And it's binary throws, a lot of manufactured throws that are at or behind the line of scrimmage.

But it's the second reaction stuff. It was the instances where he had to read it and rip it that gives me some confidence. And I keep going back to this talking point, but it's important to me. I think that Sean Payton's going to be thrilled to have a quarterback that's going to run his offense. And Russell Wilson just didn't do that. It was yolo ball down the field or hold onto the ball and find a checkdown out with. That's how we played the quarterback position.

And you know that Sean, Sean Paynevibing with that. You know, so much so that they're like, okay, get out of here. We'll take the big dad cap hit. We can't function with you. And so Bo Nix is your upside play. And Jared Stidham's just completely uninspiring. I mean, he was with the Patriots and the Raiders before he gets to Denver. Yeah.

Two teams that are like massively have need answers at quarterbacks. And they said, yeah, you can get out of here, right? I think that says something. Let's roll with Nix. That's probably your most salient point there. I do think Nix is a big departure from Russell Wilson as far as like he's going to keep him on schedule. He's going to throw in rhythm and timing.

He does have the second reaction stuff, but he doesn't have to play that way. The one thing that gives me a little concern with Bo Nix in that offense is he's allergic to throwing the ball over the middle into tight windows. Just won't do it. In fact, I went through every single throw he made at Oregon. I think I found two where he threw a ball, the ball between the,

the hashes into what I would consider a tight window, two times. Now, that also means he's not going to turn the ball over, right? Like, he's going to protect the football,

but Sean Payton's West Coast style of offense dictates, there's a lot of slant routes you're throwing between the, the hashes or between the numbers in the NFL. There's a lot of dig routes downfield. They run dagger a lot. That's like one of Peyton's favorite concepts is dagger.

So Bo's going to have to probably get comfortable. You know, NFL Open and college open are different, right? So he's going to have to get comfortable throwing the ball over the middle of the field a little bit more. Now, he made plenty of throws over the middle of the field, just generally speaking, it was to a wide open wide receiver. All right, Brett Whitefield. We have so many more position battles to get to.

We'll take a break from quarterbacks here on the other side of it. Be sure to stick with us. All right, Brett, we've had two quarterback conversations to get this started today. I want to shift gears to wide receiver. Let's go to the Carolina Panthers, who brought in Deontay Johnson, Adam Thielen was the go-to guy last year, but they also invested and traded back into the first round

to secure Xavier Leggett, who feels like he's in big competition with Jonathan Mingo, a fairly high pick from last year. Now, it wasn't Dan Morgan that made the pick, but he was certainly part of that regime, right? Scott Fitterer ultimately made that selection. what's your what's your vibe check here on Xavier Leggett and as a dynasty owner of Xavier Leggett

I need to hear from you and tell me that he's going to be okay in Carolina I mean I love Xavier look at the prospect I love him in the Dave Canales offense I think it's you know what they do with the receivers is pretty simple you know you're I think Canales even said it in one of his press conference is like he knows how to run the go ball and he's awesome after the catch that's basically all we ask our guys to do so like makes perfect sense that he'd fit there, right?

I think the concern, though, is he's a little banged up coming into camp, right? And he has a, he's got a disadvantage for the standpoint of Mingo's got a year in the offense. Or I'm sorry, a year with the team, year with Bryce Young. Obviously, the offense is new. Interestingly enough, Joe, did you see like overlap in skill sets here between Mingo and Legat? Now, whatever your valuations were of those guys, I felt like they were similar players in the way that they were used in their respective college roles. I just feel so much better about Xavier Leggett as a route runner.

That was the big Trump card there. They're both big, explosive dudes that are linear athletes. But I thought there was so much more nuance to Leggett and how he got open and how he created leverage and how he made himself available. Plus, I think he's superior player after the catch. I'm all in on Xavier Legget over Jonathan Mingo, but you can't ignore. These are both recent high draft picks for an offense that's looking for young wide receiver talent to emerge. To add to your point there, John Mingo last year as a rookie ranked 106th in win rate over expectation with his route running. That's a fantasy points data suite stat that will be coming to you in the data suite end of August.

But I think that's pretty eye-opening, right? Especially when guys like Deontay Johnson rank in the top 10, Adam Thielen was still top 30, even though he looks like a corpse at times. You know, so like Mingo being that bad was, it showed on the field. DJ Chark also was really bad. So they really didn't get anything out of Mingo that I think they wanted to. Let's keep it with the Carolina Panthers here because the running back situation is interesting. Obviously, Jonathan Brooks, a second round pick, drafted to kind of be the guy.

Well, he's got a torn ACL. We don't know when we're going to see him. And from at least a fantasy perspective, kind of sorting through this Chuba Hubbard versus Miles Sanders conversation is interesting. Miles Sanders feels like a Frank Reich special, right, familiarity with their time together with Philly, gave him a pretty decent contract to. come on over. But he kind of stinks. And Chuba Hubbard has been serviceable throughout the last couple of years with Carolina. And I don't love Chuba. I don't think he's great in terms of contact balance. And he does have an explosive gear to him. I think he's a fine depth player.

Who do you think is the guy in this backfield until Jonathan Brooks ultimately takes it over? It feels like it's got to be Chuba's backfield to me. Like you said, Sanders felt like a Rike edition. Reich is no longer there. And then when you actually look at the work on the field last year, I think Chuba's tape was much better. Now, some of the advanced data points are actually hilarious because they're almost identical. They have the same exact force-miss tackle rate,

almost the same exact yards after contact per carry. But one of Miles Sanders knocks on him since his days at Penn State were bad vision, right? Can't read out a concept, doesn't find the right, a little impatient, bounces a lot of runs. Well, his stuff rate last year was 57% where Chuba Hubbard was just 45%. So that's a 12% difference. That's a massive swing.

And the whole job of the running back is to keep the offense ahead of the chains, right? You want a run game that can keep you ahead of the chains. I feel like Chuba is the safer bet right now. Plus he does have a little bit of explosive ability there. Actually, they both kind of do. They're both pretty, got some get up and go with them. Yeah, I just have a little bit more trust in Chuba to see it, get the yards that he's supposed to get. Maybe there's not a lot of yards after contact, but the vision just feels so much better.

And I've been pretty impressed with him. I mean, pretty productive player last year and really what I would call an impossible situation where your quarterback, nobody respects him. You have no guards, right? You're like eight different left guards, eight different right guards. Guy was pretty productive on a bad, bad offense. I mean, I think he's earned that opportunity for it to be his job until John Brooks is ready to go.

How about the Buffalo Bills, your favorite football team up there in Western New York, getting a chance to sort out the wide receivers that's been the big conversation. station, over 300 of Josh Allen's targets from last year vacated. And to me, the real competition is the ex-receiver, where it's Keon Coleman as the 33rd pick in the draft. The bill's top pick in this year's class. They brought in Marquez Valde Scantling. And there's other guys.

I mean, Mac Hollins is around. Chase Claypool is around. I know the hype is with Kean Coleman. And the personality is very vibrant. He has a lot of fans. I get that. And I think we might see this one a little bit differently. But here's my expectation as to this point in time.

And this is not going to be anything that fantasy owners are going to want to hear. But I think that the bill's ex-receiver position is not going to be claimed by one guy playing 80% of the snaps. That was kind of what Gabe Davis did for this team. I think it's going to be different. Now, surely the long-term vision is for Keon Coleman to be that guy. In this season, I don't know. I think the bills are wanting to be a very game plan-specific match-up-specific type team.

And so I think there's probably going to be games where they want to lean into the vertical elements. And so maybe that'll be an MVS game. I think there's going to be games where they're going to want to get the RPO game going, glance routes, some yards after catch, have that kind of power slot dynamic, win some 50-50 balls. That's a key on Coleman game. I think there's going to be games where they want to attack the edges and run perimeter screens and wide zone. That could be a Matt Collins game.

The point that I'm making here is I don't know that anybody wins this battle. I think it's going to be more game plan specific. And I think they want to be able to utilize all these different players to their strengths. And so I see some of the projections out there. Some people are seeing 780, 90 targets for Keon Coleman this year. I'm not so sure. I think he comes in under that due to how they're going to approach that position in general this year. So we see this more similarly than I think you thought we would.

When I really sat down and evaluated this camp battle in my pre-draft valuation on Coleman, evaluation I should say, there is a unique raw. honest to Coleman's game, right? He is this big bodied, real good athlete, really good natural mover for his size. But he wasn't the most nuanced route runner in the world. You see that like he has the physical ability to be a great route runner. He has the ability to sink his hips and explode out of breaks. It just wasn't consistent. And when you have a quarterback, a veteran like Josh, like you, like he wants to know you're going to be in the right spot at the right time. Right. Like there's there's an element to that where I think MVS coming from Patrick Mahomes. there you know he's already dealt with that high level offense that high level demand from a qb i do think mvs probably at least early in the season is the guy um and you would know this more intimately than me for sure but just logically speaking i think coleman will have to earn it

over time and maybe maybe the last six games of the year coleman's playing 80% of the snaps but i don't think it's that way early on for sure right and they might ride the hot hand if you know maybe he does get early run and it you see the connection stuff start taking off between him and Josh Allen, well, then the conversation is different. But as I see it right now, that's my speculation. I don't have any, I mean, I haven't watched. They're practicing literally right now while we're recording this podcast. We don't know anything yet.

But it'll be fluid and interesting. Let's get a little offensive line talk in here. The Kansas City Chiefs have a left tackle battle. Of course, last year it was Donovan Smith, gets hurt Juan Ye Morris as a mid-round draft pick that has some appealing physical upside that I really like him. Got a chance to get some run late in the season. And then they come into this year and no longer have Donovan Smith, Wanye Morris is kind of the incumbent, but they also invest a day two pick and

BYU tackle Kingsley, Sue Amaya. And so I think you look at this season with Juan Taylor as your right tackle, but it feels like there's a wide open battle between Morris and Suehemiya Tia at left tackle. Where do you see this going? To be honest, Joe, I don't know. I mean, I think it's like the beats in Kansas City seem to think Juania Morris is the incumbent starter. He's going to get first crack at it. There were, you know, there was some rawness to Sue Matia's game for sure.

Like, I don't think he's the most polished, especially in the run game. You know, he gets a little bit wonky with his leverage at times. I think that could be an issue. I think this all, I mean, obviously this team's ready to win. They've won the last two super pulls, right? So I think with the stakes being as high as they are, I think. think they probably air with the guy that's been there both the you know they're not first round picks or anything so they don't have a competition from that angle. I don't think the draft capital

really matters is against what I'm trying to say. I think ultimately you know it's going to be Morris first crack and then and then Kingsley will get probably swing tackle duties I would guess. And maybe maybe they actually end up viewing this as the he's the right tackle of the future where you know, Geron Taylor has really played that well. So yeah, I think there's a world where Morris and Suehemiya are your starters. Maybe not this year. I think you want to kind of see it out what you want to Taylor. But I think the long-term outlook with the Chiefs offensive line is pretty interesting when you do consider, I'm sure they're going to want to get out of that Taylor deal as quickly as possible. But you have Creed Humphrey and Tray Smith as upcoming guys that are going to get

extensions. And dude, those are $20 million a year plus offensive linemen. That's expensive. And then you have Joe Tooney at left guard, who's awesome, getting a little bit older. So you have to make some choices here. And so I'm sure they would love to be able to get two starters at tackle on rookie deals and then kind of sort out the rest from there. So I think it's going to be Morris this year, but the vision here is probably the bigger conversation as it relates to the chiefs and their offensive line. All right, let's take a break here. When we come back, let's get back on to the quarterback conversations. Folks, be sure to stick with us. All right, Brett Whitefield. let's talk about the Minnesota Vikings where you have Sam Darnold, you have J.J. McCarthy as a first-round draft pick.

All of the messaging from Kevin O'Connell sounds like they want to give Sam Darnold a real opportunity here to run the offense. He talked in a recent radio interview with Adam Shine about Sam Darnold's journey to this point and how everyone's journey is a little bit different. And they're mindful of that and they're curious to see what he looks like with the supporting cast that they have. have in Minnesota, which is very appealing when you look at the pillars that they have at offensive tackle. You have good skill players in Addison and Jefferson and Hawkinson and Aaron Jones not running back. It's a good situation. Meanwhile, J.J. McCarthy is 21 years old. And the pedigree is exciting. He played with Harbaugh at Michigan, ran a pro-style offense. All that's very good, but he's young. And I think that kind of takes the pressure off of him from

having to play right away because you do have somewhat of an interesting player, Am San Darnold, and on a Minnesota team that I really like how they've stuck to their plan. They could have gotten crazy after that 13 win season in year one with O'Connell, where anybody with a brain watched the Vikings and you realize that it went their way, nothing was sustainable about their process of winning football games, and that they needed to really reset this roster. And even after that 13 win season, they didn't panic right they they stayed true to what they needed to do as a football team to get like

the big vision in place that they have with this regime i think they need to kind of stick with their instincts here let san darnal play for a little bit now it's obviously j j j mccarthy's job eventually but i am interested in seeing a little sam darnald with this infrastructure around him and i can tell that you are not no i don't i don't like the way that was all framed not going to lie that's hey that's fine If we agree on everything, that's boring. True. Listen, I like everything you said about they were smart. They did self-scout after that playoff run, where it was a joke of a playoff run.

They properly identified needs on the team where they were actually at and they committed to still building the long-term vision. I agree with all that. That was great. I do like Kevin McConnell as a coach. I think he's steering the ship there pretty well. So with that said, if they're still committed to the vision, the vision was clearly, who's clearly J.J. McCarthy, who you drafted in the first round to be your future quarterback. Sam Darnold stinks, Joe. He stinks. He stunk everywhere he's gone. He averages a turnover

every 15 dropbacks. I don't need to see Sam Darnold. Is that really true? Is that a real stat? It's something ridiculous. It's like 15 or 20, something like that. It's ridiculous. Sorry, a turnover worthy play. Oh, dude, I was going to say that's absolutely insane. Yeah, it is absolutely. And it was that way at USC too. That was my big issue with him coming out. It was like the dude cannot protect the football. He had what, like 12 lost fumbles his last year at U.S. It was ridiculous. So yeah, if they're committed to that vision, then go with JJ. You can't, we do this with Trey Lance too. If you're drafting a quarterback that has limited

experience, how do you get them more experience if they're sitting on the bench? The best time to get JJ the reps is when the stakes aren't high, right? Like you're assuming he's comfortable in the system. If J.J. McCarthy is the better quarterback and you know it right away with Sam Darnold, then play him. But in a world where that might not be true, I'm fine with letting Sam Darnold play for a little bit. What's a little bit? I think more important than what it looks like with Sam Darnold running your offense is knowing that J.J. McCarthy is at a point where he can function at a reasonable level. I'm all about failing forward and all that and getting game reps. I get it. But I think that there is a fine line to walk between getting that

and putting your quarterback in a situation where his confidence is gone right away. Okay, so you want to protect JJ. So you're saying Darnold should play to protect JJ. Is that, man, that's such a, that's such a mean way to put it. You're too nice, though. You think, like, Donald's not good. Do you think?

I know that. I know that. But do you not think that this is his best opportunity to showcase himself? Like, didn't he have a little bit of a pulse when he came back from injury in Carolina in that second season? No. The turnovers are still there. He was still taking unnecessary sacks.

Invites chaos into his life. No, I didn't think it was any good. Predictively. Who starts week one for the Minnesota Vikings? Predictively. I'll say Sam Darnold, but I don't like it. All right. That's fine. Listen, we'll see. We both like McCarthy. Like, he was my QB, too. I like him a lot.

Yeah. But I'm not in a rush. I can think that's my point there. By the way, my take would be the exact same, whether it was J.J. Drake, May, Caleb Williams, Jaden, Dan. It doesn't matter. My take would be the exact same is what I do. You want to play these guys.

In their situation, it makes sense. They have a good infrastructure. JJ's coming from the pro style offense. He knows the nomenclature. Kevin O'Connell's already said one of the things we loved about JJ is he speaks the same language we do already. So from that standpoint, it seems like he should be ready. He needs to get on-field experience. That's the only feather he didn't have in his cap is just limited dropbacks.

Get him the dropbacks while the stakes are relatively low. Like they're in a pretty tough division now with the Packers and the lines loaded up to go for it. I would get him those reps now. unless like you're saying unless you think there's a chance you ruin the confidence but if we're assuming he's ready from a mental standpoint I think he's got to get out there to get those reps that's all I'm saying but and you know who knows maybe darned plays well see this is the problem they're going to run into though Joe everyone's saying well if darnald plays well then he's a trade chip well if darnell plays well then you're probably starting him continually right yeah I think probably to an extent but

there's a there's a point in time where you have It has to be JJ's opportunity. And it doesn't sound like you have a lot of confidence that Sam Darnold's going to play at a level that's going to make that questionable. I don't. I don't. One of the position battles that we have down that you got a little giddy about when we were talking about it in the pre-show.

It's the Washington commanders and their offensive line situation. I'm sure a lot of this is rooted in your love for Jaden Daniels. So you have come out and said it's going to be a thousand-yard rusher this year. So talk to me about this offensive line. Well, I just think from a fantasy standpoint in a large, contingent of our audience, Joe, our fantasy guys. This is important because you have a rookie quarterback with a left tackle situation that arguably you would be a better fit than Cornelius Lucas in year 13 or whatever.

That's a nicest thing anyone's ever said about. Thank you. This could be horrible for Jane Daniels. I mean, should be horrible, actually. I don't see a pathway here where we're feeling very good about this left tackle. tackle situation, but at least getting the, gosh, I mean, this is really important. Brandon Coleman, if he can win that job, that gives me some hope that they could grow together. Because there's upside, right?

It's an upside, right? Because we don't know, you know, what that looks like at. Cornelius Lucas has been around for a long time and, you know, he's definitely best served as a backup tackle. Why do we cut Charles Leno? Like, I know that he's not the world's answer at left tackle, but come on, man, he's at least a serviceable starter at that position. And you freed up some cap space that you didn't need.

you had the most cap space in the world. You did all this because you wanted to get Corn Lucas and, and, well, I mean, you didn't draft Brandon Coleman at the time, but like, I, I, I want to see this. I, I just don't think this offensive line is good enough in Washington. It disappoints me. How much should they save by cutting one? That's why they cut him, right? Between seven and eight million dollars. It doesn't matter. Right. He's your best tackle. He's your best left tackle and you're going to pick a quarterback number two overall. And Jane Daniels is a quarterback that likes to run, right? He's, very talented runner of the football. And I was thinking about him,

and I was thinking about Anthony Richardson, and I've been thinking about Josh Allen. Both guys as rookies, Josh Allen and Anthony Richardson, that took some bad hits and got hurt during the rookie seasons. Those guys are 50 pounds heavier than Jaden Daniels. Yes, sir. Like, the exposure here makes me a little bit nervous.

I also don't like the idea of developing bad habits, Joe. like Daniel's already got criticized enough in the pre-jave process about, you know, having a run-first mentality where when he scrambles, he's not even looking to throw the ball down the field. It's like, I'm going. So if he's got a left tackle, that's a sieve,

a turnstile, that could be, that could be hindering to his development for sure. I will say this. Charles Leno is still a free agent. So is Donovan Smith going back to the KC talk. Any chance they end up bringing those guys back, maybe,

you know, if they see what they got in camp, they might go, whoa yeah i think i think you go to training camp and if you realize that you don't have an answer you you got to make some phone calls yeah presumably those guys are purposely sitting out part of right like that's why they're they're waiting to see what their best opportunity is so right i think there's another interesting conversation that we can really combine we'll go to the new england patriots where there's a quarterback conversation with drake may and jacobi resett there's

also a left tackle conversation right so let's I think it's a good, good one to go to next. Drake May versus Jacoby Percette. I'm kind of a Jacoby Percette fan. I don't think we've really gotten into this, but I really like him in context. As a guy that is really tough, extends plays, will stare down the barrel and throw the ball. You won't convince me that he's not one of the 32 best quarterbacks in the world, right? I'm not going to say he's like top 20, but he's a reasonable answer.

And when I look at the Patriots infrastructure, which includes the question market left tackle, which includes a question mark at left guard with Cole Strange, which includes a young wide receiver cord that has some talent and upside, but I don't think you have a go-to guy there. I feel like that combined with Drake May coming out of North Carolina that I don't think put him in the best position to be pro-ready based on the two offenses that he ran there. I would want to see this through what Jacoby were set,

because I do think that there's an exposure concern that I have with Drake May. I don't know if you share it with that based on the conversations we've had at this point, but to me, I am in no rush to play Drake May when I do have Jacoby Brissette in the fray. Go back on Spotify, first read. We hit AFC East discussion. We did talk about this a little bit. I called Jacobi Brissette the perennial meat shield, right?

That's his job. And we spoke earlier on the podcast. I called Gardner Minshu QB 33, implying he's the best non-starter in the league. I'm actually wrong. Jacobi Brissette is better than Gardner Minshu, for sure. All of the data points from the last time he got significant playing time in 2022 are very good, super high catchable ball rate, high accurate ball rate,

pretty much every metric you want to see, you know, yards per attempt. All that stuff is really good for Berset. I also love the fact, Joe, that he's played in this Rams-ish offense and the Alex Van Pelt's going to be running this year. Obviously, Berset spent time in Cleveland, learning from Stafansky and the Staphansky offense. he's also ran the Mike McDaniel offense in Miami. So like this dude has worn a lot of caps. He's ran a lot of different offenses and he's done it at a pretty high level everywhere he's been.

So I think with the left tackle situation combining the two discussions, they got to just keep percent in as long as humanly possible. And really protect May. It's so opposite of the J.J. McCarthy situation. McCarthy's in a good situation. He's got great tackles, good pass catchers. there's so much danger to me in forcing Drake May on the field right now for New England that I just would avoid it at all costs. And you feel like the long term has to be at the forefront for the New England Patriots.

Like you're the fourth best team in that division. Nobody's asking any questions about that. Like you're year one of Gerard Mayo and Elliott Wolf and what I guess sort of like you had the offseason. But I think they need to be really mindful of what the long term vision is there or else they're going to have resets while they're still trying to get out of the cellar. Play it's like to play it's smart here. The left tackle conversation is interesting because it feels like

Tuquoma Okorafor is probably going to be the leading candidates to start at left tackle. He's never played left tackle. They drafted Caden Wallace in the third round. Calvin Anderson's here, Redarian Lowe's here. That doesn't sound very exciting to me combined with whatever's going on with Cole Strange. Like the left side of that offensive line is concerning. Do you have any thoughts on how you'd like to see this left tackle situation play itself out? This might be the only situation worse than Washington's.

They're right there next to each other. Like it's two teams that had all the money in the world in free agency. I don't know that I have a preference here. I mean, I feel like we know what Chucks is right now. But Cade Wallace, you know, he projects to me as a right tackle more than a left tackle. But I don't know. Chooks was in Pittsburgh. they just drafted offensive tackles in back-to-back years in the first round after extending

a core for right we'll see man what do you want to see let's i mean i never thought chukes was like a slug at right tackle i thought he was reasonable i'd want to see what that transition looks like and give him every opportunity to win that job because i i just don't like the other options yeah so it would be his job to lose like if he just couldn't get it down that we got to figure something else out. But this might be another team that should be making phone calls, right? Like, yeah. See, maybe this is a Donovan Smith team. Maybe this is the team that should try David Bactiari. Like you have all the cap space in the world. Like, what's the risk? I mean, Bakhtiari might not want you, but I'd be trying. Sure. This is exactly why team building is important, though. I, it's why every

mock draft I had, I didn't have the Patriots taking the quarterback because it's just like, the roster is so far away. They need to invest in the infrastructure for the future quarterback. They should have drafted Joe Walt at three, if we're being honest. Or traded back and taking a different tackle. But man, this is a rough situation. And, you know, the thing is, you know, the Giants wanted to get to three from six. Like, go ahead and, like, you're going to get a lot to go from three to six. Yes, sir.

And then from there, get a weapon, get Malik neighbors, get a different tackle. Like, there's, there was other things you could have done. but at the same time, if you identify a quarterback that you believe is going to be the guy, then all right, do it. But now you start the clock, right? Now you got to make it work around this guy. But it's not, I didn't start the clock, so I don't personally care. But, I mean, that's what I'd be thinking if I was that general manager.

Yep. The first major decision you make a quarterback is when the clock starts as a regime. And Mayo and Elliott Wolf decided that that was this year, apparently. So Brett Whitefield, the Indianapolis Colts like tall receivers. They have Michael Pittman. They have Alec Pierce. They have A.D. Mitchell. And both, I mean, those are all what second round picks.

They've been doing this in the second round. Josh Downs, too. So the Colts take a receiver in the second round every year. That's what we just uncovered. A little bit of a battle here between Alec Pierce and A.D. Mitchell. I think the upsides with Mitchell. Kind of curious how you see this playing out. Yeah, for, I mean, the battle to find out who the runoff nine guy is in the offense.

Like, who's clearing out, who's clearing out for Pittman to run his dig underneath on a serious note pierce has been a pretty big disappointment you know honestly it's funny him in in ad mitchell kind of have a similar archetype in the way they play the way they win i think ad mitchell's potentials sky high compared to alec pierce but very similar players in college with the way they were used so i'm i'm very curious to see obviously they probably agree with that right that's the one spot really up for grabs they draft ad mitchell but man pierce has been so unproductive like one of the lowest yards for route run in the NFL the last two seasons. It seems early to give up on a guy like that. But I feel like A.D. Mitchell's potential here. He's already pretty developed as a route runner.

There's some consistency issues, but he has to have the advantage. It just feels he has to have the advantage to me. Yeah, I think he's more dynamic. I like his change of direction more. And Alec Pierce, I think he's got really good hands and good vertical speed. And like, the appeal is that he can get on top of corners, create vertical leverage, make them play through him and create those windows down the field. But like there's not a lot of efficiency that's ever going to come with that type of a role. And that role is going to be a lot more for the love of the game than it is going to be getting real opportunities to make plays. So I'd want Alec Pierce doing that and allow my more dynamic route runners in A.D. Mitchell and Michael Pittman to be the guys that are beneficiaries of all that.

Plus you kind of sprinkle in Josh Downs and the, I think the complimentary skills that he brings to the table. So the Colts, man, I'm excited to see what Shane Steichen does in. year two and what Anthony Richardson can be. Like they're one of my, like my sleeper teams this year are the Colts and the Seahawks. Like I just kind of have a little thing for both teams. But certainly I think the presence of Pierce and Mitchell gives them some new dimensions that I think probably helps everything come together for what they want to be offensively. All right, Brett.

Go ahead. I was just saying we know Stuyken likes to throw deep. Like that was a big part of what they did in, in Philly was just a ton of deep balls, just constant. Like it felt like a shot every third play. when Stuyken was there. Pitman, they do like to use them in the slot a little bit, too. That's the only thing I was going to say.

I think he ran like 125 routes from the slot last year. So there's a chance you could see all three of those guys together in certain packages. 11 personnel with those three in Delany Woods. Terror. Yeah. And then Jonathan Taylor running the ball behind that. Like you could force some matchups there, dude. I mean, like, you will be, you will not be big enough on defense to handle that.

Like, you just won't be. That's true. That's fun. Fun layer if you're the Indianapolis Colts. All right, we got more to get into. I want to talk running backs in Chicago, some more quarterbacks, maybe some defensive chatter coming up on the other side of it. Be sure to stick with us.

All right, Brett Whitefield. DeAndre Swift signed with Chicago Bears. Nice contract to be, they're starting running back. But if there's something that I've actually been very successful with in recent years of fantasy football, is I find the right backup running backs that kind of become things. Like I was a beneficiary of Jerome Ford. I stashed Zemir Wight.

That's looking like a great moment for me. I had Alexander Madison the year that he kind of had some good starts later in the season filling in for Dalvin Cook. The bears are definitely a situation where I'd have my eye on this because that offensive line run blockers, right? Like you know they can run the ball. They have potency in the passing game that they haven't had in a very long time. And D'Andre Swift has been a pretty banged up guy. Who's that next guy for them? You've heard a lot of hype about Rishon Johnson, like ever since he was the backup to Bijon Robinson in Texas.

But then you also have Khalil Herbert who's had some nice production in the NFL. So like who is your backup running back back stash for the Chicago Bears that you think is worthy to have on a roster? I'm buying into the Roshan Johnson hype. Love them as a prospect. The staff is constantly saying nice things about him. He's excellent in the past game. I thought he was the best protecting, best pass protecting running back of his draft class.

Great hands. Good route runner. Dynamic with the ball on his hands. I mean, shoot, he was a quarterback recruiter. crew actually. Oddly enough, he ran a, he ran a bunch of wildcat type sets for Texas. But man, I'm buying him to this hype. He's big physical guy, real shifty. I think he's a total package, man. I, like, I have three premium traits when I scout running backs. Vision, burst and ability to create beyond your blockers. Those are the three things I value the most.

He does all three of them very, very well. So with Swift's injury history, I'm making sure I'm gobbling up, Rochon Johnson, and most of my leagues. I think that the bears are, are, in a bit of a unique position with the running back the depth that they have. Because I think it extends to even Travis Homer as your fourth running back. It was a nice little player. Like special teams and he's got some athleticism. He runs angry. There's things to like about him.

The available free agent market right now for running backs is literally a pile of nothing. Like Josh Kelly might be the most interesting back. Or if you want the ghost of Melvin Gordon, Kareem Hunt or Dalvin Cook, you trust me. You don't want that. What about players might go? Playoff Lenny. Playoff Lenny. out there too got one snap for the bills they said go take like this might be a team that should

trade one of these running backs you know like you you have you have three pretty reasonable options here four in my opinion but uh man calil herbert certainly certainly is no slug i mean i definitely appeal i see the appeal with rochon johnson johnson but herbert like contact balance receiving skill set has a little bit a little bit of juice to him you know i don't think it's i understand everything you're saying about rochon johnson but i don't easily stiff arm calil herbert and say you're not in line for an opportunity here as well. I think there's a lot to play out here. Herbert had some really good tape in 2022. The lone caveat, I'll throw in that is the way they were splitting him and David Montgomery's snaps, Herbert was getting in favorable box counts a lot more

than Montgomery was. Montgomery routinely was seeing seven, eight, nine man boxes, just the personnel groupings. Then Herbert was like six or five. Herbert had an unusual amount of third and long carries, which kind of boosted his numbers a little bit. That explosive run rate was really high. The yards per carry in general, I think was up near six in 2020. So a lot of that, though, was very situation dependent on him. I don't think he's a bad running back, though. And I think a team like the New York Giants, to your point, should be calling.

They have no talent at running back, Devin Singletary, and a complete project in Tyrone Tracy. Oh, sorry, is Singletary one of your guys? I really, I have an appreciation for Devin Singletary. I think, I mean, just continuously a lead ball carrier for productive NFL offenses. He's available. He runs hard. He gets tough yards.

He's shifting in tight spaces. Like, I don't think that he's an amazing running back. But in the way that you and I view the running back position, I think Devin Singletary is like such an ideal player. Not a game changer. Yes. You're such an ideal guy. As a day three pick that I'm paying pennies on the dollar to, yes. but New York went and paid him a little bit of money.

Did they not? Is he making a little bit? Like five or six million per? Yeah. I don't think he's a running back that warrants that. I think that takes, that's because you don't think any running back does. Well, that's not true.

Come on. I'm not that harsh with it. But I do think that, like, you can replace that of a singleitarian in the draft relatively easy as all. I know some people do like Tyrone Tracy's a converted, like receiver. Yeah, huge. I like the upside swing. We have no idea if he can play running back at a high level.

Yeah. Right. Right. Absolutely. Hey, let's talk Detroit Lions here a little bit. Uh, there's a lot to consider here with this wide receiver situation. Of course, Amon Ross St. Brown, Jameson Williams, like this is a big year for him. There's another spot here. I know that you like to bring up K. Leaf Raymond, but what about this like Donovan People's Jones role, Antoine Green? Like, how we sorting out these receivers in Detroit? So they like Caleb Raymond as a, you know, flanker. He's been more of the James and Williams backup than anything. But they do use them in some three receiver sets with Amman Ra with Jamo.

But there is this traditional X role in that offense where they need a guy that's going to run tough routes over the middle, your slants, your digs, play on the boundary a little bit when, you know, contested catch balls down on the boundary. We saw Josh Reynolds occupy that role for basically the last two years. So I do think DPJ and Antoine Green are in a battle for that role. It is fantasy relevant too. The lines haven't really sustained a third receiver because they have Sam Laporte on Amunra who are both so good and they throw their running backs a lot.

But if one of these guys really stands out and takes hold of that role, we're looking at an entirely different situation than before. I think Josh Reynolds is pretty capped on what he does. So I think like from a fantasy standpoint, there was really never upside with him. DPJ, I think he's a little bit more juice than Josh Reynolds. Antoine Green is a lot more juice than Josh Reynolds. So there's some big play upside with both those guys. I don't think you were getting with Josh Reynolds.

Does that, you know, I don't know how much that tilts the scales in fantasy, but I think it should. I think whoever wins that job, you should value more than you value Josh Reynolds the last couple years. Really? You think that they, whoever, you think that either DPJ or Antoine Green will be more productive than Josh. Reynolds was last year if there's a clear winner yeah for sure yeah if they're they will combine you think they will combine for more production i yeah i think they will yeah i'm interested i'm super i'm super interested in this because i i love jameson williams like i was so high on him coming out of alabama and of course he's had some some issues of course an injury and

this the potential is so good like i would love to see him be a volume piece for them so like if lapporte is of course going to be a volume piece amman ra of course is going to be a volume piece they're going to run the ball. They get both those backs involved. James and Williams has a role. Like how much is there for this guy? And that doesn't even mention Kaleave Raymond in the mix here. Oh, wait. I thought Caleb Raymond was part of the, sorry.

Yeah, I think the three of them will be more productive than Reynolds. Not. Okay, the three of them. All right. Yeah, okay. Totally on board with that. Okay. Yeah, Caleb Raymond had 490 receiving yards last year as their fourth or fifth option.

I mean, yeah, I think if one of those guys wins the job outright, I think they will be super fantasy relevant, but I do think the three of them together will way out produce what Josh Reynolds did last year. And that's with Jamo taking a step forward. It is now time for the Los Angeles Chargers segment on today's podcast, where we put the wide receiver position under the microscope. I think, if I'm not mistaken, it came out this week that their preferred 11 personnel

receiver trio at this point in time is Josh Palmer, Ladd McConkey, and DJ Chark, which puts Quentin Johnson on the outside looking in. Is this fluid, or do you think, do you think that we see an established pecking order within that at some point this season? Oh, man, I think, I think it's fluid. You know what? I'm, I'm going to hijack the show for a second. Oh, good.

He says, oh, good. I'm going to tell you, I'm going to read you a list of teams. And I want you to tell me what they all have in common. Are you ready? Okay. The New England Patriots, the Denver Broncos. the Atlanta Falcons, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Arizona Cardinals, the New York Giants, the Baltimore Ravens, the Carolina Panthers, the New York Jets, and the Buffalo Bills, Joe.

What do they have in common? I mean, you couldn't have named a more random assembly of teams. They're all part of the national football. I'll tell you what they have in common. The Los Angeles Chargers have a better receiving room than those 10 teams I just named. All right, take it from the top. Now that I know where you're going with that, I'll tell you if I agree with that or not. What's the first name?

New England Patriots. I'm not sure. What? I mean, I like Jowlin Polk and Javon Baker and Pop Douglas looks okay to me. Kendrick Bourne. Pop Douglas looks okay to me. And, wow. Jay Osborne.

I mean, I'm not so sure. Like, Osborne stinks. I'm just not so sure. I think it's a little bit more of a push. Who did you like better, Ladd McConkey or Jalen Polk? Those are really different players. Who'd you like that?

I wanted a slot receiver. I'd want McConkey. I probably had McConkey graded higher. Okay. And then Josh. Palmer is by far better than anything else New England has, and it's not close. The way that you see Josh Palmer is just the difference that we have. I think he'd be a fine third receiver for some team. And he would be the number one for New England.

Yeah, but it's the sum of the parts. It's not just the one player. I'm telling you, I think one to one, every player the Chargers have is better than you. You'd rather have Pop Douglas or DJ Chark. Clinton Johnson. Your brother, Clinton Johnson. All right. What was the other? Who's the other teams? The Denver Broncos. No way. Why? Mims, Sutton. What has Mims done?

Made explosive plays when you have the opportunity. 11 balls last year? It's not my fault that Russ Wilson can't run the offense. Cardinals, I'm with you, yeah, except for Marvin Harrison's the best thing that either team has at wide receiver. Pittsburgh Steelers. They have Roman Wilson and George Pickens and Van Jefferson. That's crappy, man. That's crappy.

Yeah. The New York Giants. Malik neighbors, Wondale Robinson. Darius Slate. Arias Slayton, that's better. That's better than, no way. That's better. I disagree. Baltimore Ravens. Come on, dude. Are you kidding me? Is it Zay Flowers, Rashad Bateman? Nelson Aguilar.

Zayflowers is the best thing about any of those teams. I'd say that. Yeah, but he had an eight out of like 7.2 last year. He cannot function beyond the short part of the field. That's why I make some explosive plays in the playoffs on the field. He stumbled it on the goal line. He's also wide open, right? Okay. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to fight too hard there. Carolina Panthers. Thielen Johnson Leggett.

I'd probably rather have the Panthers. It's close, though. Do you agree it's close? No. This was been the easiest. This is the easiest yes for me yet so far. The New York Jets? Garrett Wilson.

Yeah, but they have trash after that. I know, I know. They don't have anything else, but he's got to count for something big there, right? He does. This one's going to sting. The Buffalo Bills.

I'd rather have the Bills receivers. I'm not saying I wouldn't rather have the Bills receivers, but I think it's close. Oh, it's a tier of, yeah, we're concerned about this, but I think he has 49 career catches. No,

it feels like he has, it feels like he has like 500 though, honestly. Bill's colored glasses right there. I'll tell you, I watched it last season. I watched him produce, I'll produce Stefan Diggs over the last 12 games on 60 last target.

So, so that's the first layer to this. And then I have the Washington commanders, Jacksonville, Jaguars, Green Bay Packers. Are you nuts? New Orleans Saints.

Are you nuts? The Packers, you're invoking the Packers in this? I think about this objectively. In what planet? Okay, can we just agree that the charges have a bottom five wide receiver core? No, I just named teams. Don't do. Here's the thing is like you're trying to make it like I'm crazy for thinking this.

You're the one that's crazy for thinking this. Anybody that stacks up wide receiver cores in the NFL views Los Angeles charges as a bottom five team. Like you're on the island here. I'm saying they are wrong. I'm saying they're wrong. I think they're probably right on that bottom third fringe, maybe in the second third, but, you know, right on that. bottom third turn that's where i think they are i just named you 15 teams i think sorry 14 teams that i think are all right there i wanted to do this today because i because we got

i got some some hate for the last episode when we broke down the charters receiving court i got some hate i wanted to talk about this because i i had to get this off my chest i'm convicted in this patriots broncos falcons dealers cardinals giants ravens panthers jets i won't throw the bills in there but that's nine teams, I think, have a worse receiving core than the Los Angeles Chargers. And then the Bills, commanders, Jaguars, Colts, Packers, Saints, sorry, not Colts. I don't know why I said Colts.

Bills, commanders, Jaguars, Packers, Saints are right there with them. Where I think it's debatable and we'll find out more as the season progresses. But I, the Packers get lauded as having this amazing receiving core. Who do they have? They have tons of young talent.

That's intriguing. Donatavian Wicks. Jaden Reed, Christian Watson. Romeo Dobbs. They haven't really done anything. Watson had a good six-game stretch. His hamstrings are perennially hurt.

Jaden Reed was pretty good last year, but he can't separate. So that's a big issue. Don Tavian Wicks has less than 40 career receptions. Do you see, like, if we're going to put that on the chargers of being in experience with Quinton Johns, they have every bit as much of a young, talented receiving corps as the Green Bay Packers. Quentin Johnson, Ladd-McConkey, first round picks. Josh Palmer is 25 years old.

Darius Davis, a fourth round pick, can absolutely fly. Like, they have a good young stable receivers as well, or potentially good, I should say, not good, potentially good young receiver. So why do we give the Packers a free pass? The Jacksonville Jaguars, they have Gabe Davis on their, they roster Gabe Davis, Joe. That's crazy. And they're paying them $13 million a season. That's a good way to bring me back into your good graces there.

They also have Christian Kirk and Brian Thomas. I don't know, man. I wish there was a way for us to quantify the, I mean, I'm sure you do. I'm sure you have data points that we can point to at the end of the season. But I don't know. You're charting these charges receivers. I don't know what you're going to be putting down there, man. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know, dude. For Chargers fans, I'm sure they're very excited to hear your analysis on the wide receivers. But I think you're very much alone. Like I love that you say it with your chest. I just disagree with you. All right. That's fair.

Like in the line of good enough or not, like it's below the line. I can agree with that. But I think every team needs that. But you want to bring in all these other teams and say, well, If we're talking about the chargers like this, all these other teams deserve the same treatment. Correct. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Especially some of these teams with younger quarterbacks, New England and Denver and I guess the Giants to an extent. The Panthers. Why? Why have you dropped the ball so bad on wide receiver? Anyways. I think it's because I think everyone has a different

approach to it. Some teams say, yeah, we want to load up on all these receivers like the Shanahan tree. Like they all want all the receivers they can get. Other teams are very much like, hey, let's share the ball. let's get tight ends going. Let's, let's have a backfield. Let's have complimentary skills that's at wide receiver and trust that our quarterback can figure it out, right? Like you're seeing contrasting ways of building that position group. And I think that puts us in a position to have these types of conversations where it's like it's sorting itself out across the league. The chief's just won the Super Bowl. And they're like a hard team to invoke because there's so many different layers to that team with the defense with Mahomes. Andy Reed, Travis Kelsey,

exists, the interior offensive line, but like, they trade away Tyree Kill. I have nothing at wide receiver win two Super Bowls. They've also drafted one like every year in the second round. And they stink. Right. And they stink. Well, Rushie didn't stink. But yeah. But we talked about Rashid's like, okay, congratulations on just like running drag routes

through zones and Patrick Mahones through the ball. Like did you win a route all year long that should get anyone excited? And plus you're weird. Like you got problems off the field? I'm sorry. It's weird, man. If you can't just hunker down and enjoy being the number one receiver for the Kans City Chiefs with Patrick Holmes is your quarterback during your rookie season.

The whole world's in front of you. Everything you could ever want and you can't let's like behave. Like, come on, you're weird. Rashi Rice ranked 55th out of all receivers last year and win rate over expectation, which would rank dead last among a team's wide receiver ones. Wow. Ford that's worth. So good call there.

All right, let's tie a bow on the Chargers wide receiver. I do think this will be fluid. I think, I think Quentin Johnson obviously being raw. I've already gave you my spiel last week. I gave you my spiel on John. And so I think he's got work to do to get better. Hopefully we see that progression. Otherwise, I'm going to be very wrong about the sweater receiver group.

So how about the running back situation here? They signed J.K. Dobbins. They signed Gus Edwards, who obviously familiar with Greg Roman and the style of offense he wants to run. They draft Kamani Vidal. I guess like I totally understand running backs don't matter. But there's there's a fantasy conversation to have here about which one you want to have. Obviously, Dobbins is healthy.

Like he's the most dynamic player, but he's, He's never healthy. Gus Edwards gets touchdown production, but he's kind of old and boring. And then Vidal, I really liked coming out, but he's a late round pick. From a culture standpoint, I feel like Gus, Gus is the guy you want, at least short term. So if you're in redraft or best ball, I think Gus is probably the guy. He should see a bulk of the work, right? You can't count on JK to stay healthy.

We don't even know what he is either. We don't know if he has that same explosiveness or even bend. That's the thing about Dobbins. That was always so freaky. his ankles, bro, that dude could run legitimately parallel to the ground. Like it was so weird to watch. I don't know that he still has that. But if you're in dynasty and playing long term,

I love Kimani Vidal as a dart throw. And I think there's a chance. Not even to mention what he does as a runner, but what he does in the past game, I think he's the best pass protecting back in this class. Really solid hands. And then he runs angry. You know, he kind of fits that Greg Roman style.

He's really, he has a lot of experience with power encounter, you know, setting up polling blockers. And I think that's a big part of what they're going to be doing in LA. So I think long term, I like Kamani Vidal, but I think for the short part, early part of the season, it's going to be bulk Gus Edwards, obviously going to be some type of committee, though. Yeah, I see it very similarly. Vidal is the one I'd want to have for the long term.

I don't know why there's a conversation to be had about the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterbacks, but there is. Well, because they're, they're, I mean, all signs point to Russell Wilson. Okay. And I don't know. Fields or? Yeah, I think it should be Fields. I don't love, I mean, I liked Fields as a prospect.

I don't love what I've seen in the NFL, but I, I mean, the last two years of Russ were impossible for me to enjoy. And I have Justin Fields at 25 years old that's on an expiring contract. I'd sort of want to see what that looks like, as opposed to just, all right, Russell Wilson and, you know, championing his resume to this point, which I think is completely irrelevant because I think Seattle knew exactly how to manage Russ and they had that defense and they ran the ball. Everybody was like, well, what if we just let Russ cook and throw the ball more? Well, you saw that. It stinks. I would want Justin Fields to have an opportunity here. Maybe

that's the point. That's where we'll get at some point. But it feels like Russ is the guy here in Pittsburgh. Yeah. Let me ask you this, Joe. What do you think Russ's biggest deficiency was as a quarterback the last couple seasons? Can I sum that up by saying he's a fundamentally flawed quarterback? what's the thing that makes him fun? Decision making. Right. Would you say slow trigger? Yeah, dude.

I know you're going to say all the same problems exist with Justin Fields, but he's 25. Well, I'm going to spend this positively, though. All right. The one thing, though, between the, yes, they have all the same issues, but the differentiating fact for me is Justin Fields has the ace and the hole, which is I could also run for 80 yards in any given play. Right. One of the most dynamic quarterback runners I've ever seen.

the fact that Chicago routinely came into games with game plans to not allow him to run or no QB designed runs is insane to me and I don't think Justin Fields is a great quarterback I think his the road for him to be successful is a as a long one I definitely think there is a road I the Steelers are have no business starting Russell Wilson though in my opinion they're going to I know I know he's like a darling there the way the players and coaches are talking about him I think you've met someone in life where it's like they made a really good first impression on you. And then the more you got to know them,

you're more you're like, man, I just really don't like that guy. Are you talking about me right now? Yeah, of course I have. I think he's, he has that youth pastory vibe. Hey, what's going on, brother?

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. That youth pastor vibe. So I think he, he does a really good job with first impressions, makes people feel wanted and loved and desire. But like, at the end of the day, I think that act wears off,

quickly. So it does not shock me that the Steelers like him right now. I feel like we heard all the same things in Denver, though. You remember what Calisthenics in the aisle of the airplane? Like right. And I think not being a victim of the moment, but being mindful of last season for Pittsburgh, where it was Pickett and Trubisky and Mason Rudolph, right? You're like, oh, yeah, this guy started a lot of games, has won the Super Bowl, has been in the Pro Bowl. That sounds good. and then I think the live bullets are going to start to fly, and they're going to realize that Russ doesn't run the offense,

and everyone's going to get pissed off. All right, let's talk Dallas Cowboys offensive line. Yeah. Let's do that. Dude, it's tough for me to reconcile so much of the business side of the Dallas Cowboys right now with. I think Dallas is a team for me that, like, makes some of the moves that I love the most in the NFL, combined with some of the moves I hate the most in the NFL,

in the NFL. And this is a team that it feels like there's a lot riding on this season, and they're objectively not better. And part of where they took a lot of hits is the offensive line, where Tyrant Smith is gone, Tyler Biatis is gone. We're hoping that Terrence Steele can revive his career after having a crappy, crappy season. We've drafted Tyler Guyton.

Tyler Smith, I guess, is going to be the left guard. Like Brock Huffman's our center, Cooper Beebebe, obviously, how are we going to sort out this offensive line to make, it feel like Dak Prescott has his best opportunity and a contract year to go make it all work. I think you just laid it out indirectly. Steel has to be, you know, come back to somewhat close to what he was. Guyton has to slide in and be functional at left tackle. And then you need Brock Hoffman to play starter. Like he's never started before. So there's a lot. A lot has to go right. That's questionable, right? Yeah. The three most important spots in your offensive line.

like congrats on having Zach Martin and Tyler Smith that's a great guard pair but your tackle spots and your center spots are very very questionable when they drafted Tyler Guyton I was under the impression like my immediate reaction was like oh he's the right tackle Tyler Smith is going to play left tackle I would it's a lot of moving parts Joe but I would have felt better about that because like okay at least we have a lot invested into the tackles now there's upside there we might have bookend tackles for the next decade and they're They just didn't, they're like, no, we're just going to play Smith at guard with an aging

Zach Martin. I don't know. It's a lot, man. And the identity of what the Cowboys have been for so long has been O-Line driven, too. Right. And you figured there had to be some resets along the way. Yeah. Both, I mean, it's a lot.

It's a lot to consider in a critical year for the Dallas Cowboys. How about the Baltimore Ravens that's keeping on the offensive line? This is a team that, this is a three starters are gone from last year's unit, Kevin Zeitler, John Simpson, and the right tackle, right? Morgan Moses. They've transitioned away from those three players. And now you're looking at a very interesting cast of characters to step in. Andrew Voorhe's potentially your left guard after being a seventh round pick that was injured during, was the last year at USC and he's been tons of injuries. I mean, is he really going to be your left guard? Ben Cleveland, like we've been down this road,

and he's back to being your penciled in player at right guard. You draft Roger Rosengarten in the second round, is he ready to be your right tackle or is Daniel Folle Leigh, ready to make some noise there? Meanwhile, Patrick McCarrey's been like the super sub and we're not exactly sure if he's going to start. Like to me, that's where the conversation starts for me. If I'm trying to put my best five offensive linemen on the field and I'm the Baltimore Ravens, there is a spot for Patrick McCarrey. And right now, like on paper, it doesn't look like there is. McCarrey should be their starter at right guard and then he should be the guy who kicks out the

tackle if one of the tackles goes down. He's played both tackle spots very well. Right. Yeah, he's a good player. He's played a ton of snaps. Yep. And you know, what's crazy is Ronnie Stanley didn't play great last year either. We're talking about Terrence Steel taking a step back.

Stanley was actually, he hasn't been very great since his injury, to be honest with. So, yeah, the question marks here, you know, we always, I'm going to bring this topic up a lot because I really enjoy it. The draft and develop approach to teams. The Baltimore is a team that does this everywhere, like at every spot. And so I'm almost willing to trust it because it's Baltimore where they do this on the D line. They do this in the secondary. They've done it on the offensive line for years. And they definitely have years where the O line takes a step back for a year as guys gel and they bring back continuity.

But I kind of just trust it because it's them. The only thing that just gives me red flags is Ben Cleveland was a starter, then wasn't a starter, now was a starter again. That's weird to me. I'm not sure how he would have developed and grown to earn that starting job. back. But at the end of the day, I think I got to trust what they're doing here. I think Rosengarten's your right tackle for sure. I don't think you're wrong with that. How about some defensive stuff going across the NFL? I think there's a few really interesting

ones. To me, the most fascinating is Houston with their CB2 spot opposite of Derek Stingley, who when he's healthy, he looks like he's going to be a stud. They drafted Camari Lasseter in the second round, but they've also got the, yeah, Jeff Akuta and C.J. Henderson, like the two recent top 10 disappointments at corner. Man, I don't, I don't see how C.J. Henderson is a serious candidate here. He doesn't tackle? You know, like, isn't that an important part of playing defense in that scheme? And Jeff Akuta, like, you know, like is, I think if you're counting on him to, to be what he was drafted to be, that's unlikely. I think they're going to have to roll with

Lasseter if they're not a team that's going to call us Stefan Gilmore or, you know, one of these other veterans that are, that are on the market. There's a Dori Jackson's out there. a Keller Witherspoon, who I think would be a pretty good scheme fit that knows D'emico Ryan's, like, it's got to be Camarie Lasseter to me. It feels that way. A lot of teams, you know, they shape their roster a little bit contingent on the division they're playing. When you look at who the Houston Texans have to play, it's a wide receiver heavy division with the Colts and their quad of receivers, the Jaguars loaded up at receiver this year, even though they let Calvin Ridley walk out the door,

or I should say Calvin did chose to walk out the door to the Tennessee Titans who are also in division. all three of these teams got significantly better at wide receiver over the last couple years. So the Texans really do need to be careful here with Corner. Like they need to prioritize figuring that spot out. It seems like Camarie Lasseter's got to be the guy. I just don't know how he has a camp where he can't outplay Jeff Acuta. I'm with you on that. How about the Vikings Edge situation where they, you know,

certainly swapped out Danielle Hunter for Jonathan Grenard. But then they sign Andrew Van Ginkle to a decent contract, who knows Brian Flores, so I think it's a great scheme fit. But then they also traded quite a bit to get Dallas Turner as a first rounder out of Alabama. I'm sure there's going to be snaps for all these guys. And Van Ginkle certainly has his limitations as a run defender. But do you think that somebody here between Van Ginkle and Dallas Turner, like winds up being the runaway player in terms of snap volume?

I feel like with the investment in Turner, they got to get him on the field. I will say this, though, the style of defense they play. It's all about creating pressure. It's this multiple front. There's a world where you see Grenard, Van Ginkle, and Dallas Turner on the field together. They interchange really well, actually.

Minnesota blitzed on 52% of snaps last year. That is absolutely insane. Like, that's actually crazy. So, I mean, what's, furthermore, the reward they got from that actually wasn't very good. I think their pressure rate on blitz snaps is only like 37%, which is actually close to league average on non-blitz plays. So, like, they weren't getting a heavy reward.

I mean, the ball was coming out quicker, so they weren't getting beat super deep or anything. But I feel like you add Van Ginkle and Turner to that hybrid blitz package. That starts to feel really nice. And I think you should see snaps with all three of those guys on the field. But at the end of the day, I think Turner has to out snap Van Ginkle by a couple hundred snaps for sure. Who's edge two in Detroit opposite of Aidan Hutchinson? So coming into this today, I was thinking it was, is Marcus Davenport.

I doubt he's going to win that job. They obviously brought him in, paid him a little bit of money to be that guy. But then you're hearing all these rumors that they're in on Matthew Judah. And I'm like, that's interesting because I don't know, because they do like Josh Pashall. This is another draft and developed team. Pashall's entering, or Pascal, how we say his name, Pascoe is entering year three. That's usually their timeline for defensive players is year three. We saw it last year with Derek Barnes and Ifie Mela Fon.

Now Pascal's hitting year three this year. So I think there's a an expectation. Oh, James Houston too, right? There's an expectation that these guys flourish and really step into their role. So I'd be really shocked if they made a move for like a Matthew Judon because I do think they like what they have there where like the rest of the universe does not. They're like Davenport's always hurt. Pascal's done nothing.

James Houston missed all of last season. But I don't think it's that simple for them. I think they like all three of those guys and all three of them will play snaps. But gun to my head, I would say Marcus Davenport. assuming he's healthy is the every down player there. Maybe he'll come together. It's certainly a good spot for him to realize a lot of his potential. And if he's healthy, I think he's had good moments. But there's always going to be that piece of Marcus Davenport that we say,

you know what? The Saints traded two first round picks to move up to get this guy, which was insane at the time. And he's never going to live up to that. And that's just part of his narrative. But he's so far removed from that, we got to look at him a little bit differently. if he's healthy, I think he can help this defense. And I like the environment for him to be the best version of himself. Yeah. I know you were at the senior bowl of the year he was coming out.

Yep. Do you get to meet him? I did. So there is something too. When you see that guy, you're like, whoa, this dude is built Diffy. That is for sure. Very tall, long muscles coming out of his ears. I mean, just very, very well put together human being there.

So there's an intimidation factor with him for sure. First off the bus. Him and Penae Sewell. Let's go. Frank Ragnos a monster. They got a lot of monsters there in Detroit. They do. All right, Joe, let's wrap it there, man.

You good? Yeah, we're good. Let's do it. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, yeah. So that is your training camp camp battle discussion. If you feel like we missed any, please, when the YouTube video comes out, go in the

YouTube video, comment who you'd like us to talk about. Next week, we'll do it. All right. Next week, we'll wrap about it. And you know what I just decided right now, Joe, I'm so heavily vested. it into this Chargers wide receiver discussion. I think next week we should rank past catching units. One through.

Wow. Come prepared. One through. We'll break it down. We can have it out one more time. And then we'll put it to bed until the end of the season. Then we can revisit. I'm sure there will be pokes and jokes along the way. But does that sound like a plan? Sounds like that's the plan. I'll get started right away, stacking these up. And I'll get, I'll be intellectually honest. I promise you that always. I know that I have biases.

But I will put them where in my heart, I feel they belong. Awesome. All right. Remember, folks, no matter what develops, we will always be your first read. Thank you for listening. We are out.