Fantasy Football Daily - Senior Bowl Champs and Chumps + NFL Transfer Portal (Myles Garrett, Cooper Kupp) | NFL First Read

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down "Senior Bowl Champs and Chumps + NFL Transfer Portal (Myles Garrett, Cooper Kupp)." Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Intro - 00:00 Joe’s Champs and Chumps - 05:51 Joe’s Champ: Chip Kelly - 06:00 Joe’s Chump: Cam Newton - 09:56 Brett’s Chump: Bubba Ventrone - 13:44 Brett’s Champ: Jack Bech - 16:51 Jaxson Dart Deep Dive - 18:31 Jalen Milroe - 37:35 Elijah Arroyo - 38:58 Harold Fannin Jr. - 40:42 Jackson Hawes - 42:05 Jack Bech - 42:55 Tez Johnson - 44:33 Senior Bowl RBs - 47:25 Myles Garrett - 51:18 Cooper Kupp - 58:08 FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Try them now and have a smooth night. First read, we are your first read, the Film and Analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the C-O-O-O-of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. let's get after it. And Joe Marino, speaking of the fantasy points data suite, if you haven't checked it out yet, and I know you have, data.com, please go check it out.

We have an early bird special going on fantasy points right now where you can get that data suite, probably about 20% cheaper than you normally can. So I would strongly suggest you take advantage of that, go check it out. It is the best consumer-facing data product on the market, bar none. So anyways, Joe, how are you, man? I'm glad to be back from Sunny Mobile, Alabama. You know, Brett, I needed you last week. I know, man.

I let you down. Where the heck were you? You know, I got to deal with another heartbreaking loss, the Kansas City Chiefs and the playoffs. And I'm ready for my Brett Whitefield therapy session. And you're nowhere to be found, you know, out there gallivanting in the deep south, you know, watching football players. And I'm over here trying to figure out how to beat the.

Kansas City Chiefs. You know what, Joe? It's probably good I wasn't here because I had a, I was going to call you out. Really? Yeah. For what? Because after the loss, I had texted you something consoling.

And your reply to me was not what I was expecting from Joe Marina. I don't even know what, I don't even remember this now. You have me going through my phone. I said, sorry, bro. The NFL sucks. And then you responded, it's just football, man. No, dude, I can appreciate that because a lot of people like, and it's very kind of people to be like concerned for like my physical being or whatever

my emotional state is. And it's like it's a foot like I just, I'm not going to be mean to my wife in cancer. You know what I mean? Because I didn't get the result of a football game. Like my wife even came up to me after I peel. her off the ground from crying so much. She winds up later on company, she's like, Joe, I know it wasn't what we wanted. And I'm like, I can't do this right now. It's a football game that I have no control over. Yes, I wanted the result to be a certain way. And I love the bills with every ounce of my being.

But I'm not going to sit there and just be all sulky over the results of something I have no control over. No, I wouldn't expect you to be sulky. But the response, it's just football, man. shocked me to my core because I was like, no, I know how I felt after the Lions game the week prior or whatever. And I was just thinking like, there's no way. This is the man that was nervous on a Wednesday. Yeah. Leading up to a Sunday game.

There's no way you can come back with. It's just football. It's more than that to us, Joe. And I get, I get what you're saying. I am very, I'm a compartmentalized guy. You know what I mean? Like in terms of my football fandom and this comes through living through a 17 year playoff drought and like,

you know, a lot of heartbreak. You learn to, or at least I have learned to cling to the best parts of being a fan and all the joy that comes with it. And then for the stuff that is not so good, just toss that to the side. Like, I mean, that's not, I don't have to own that. I'm not responsible for it. I don't play for the team, you know, so I'm able to compartmentalize it very, very easily. And, you know, the content component helps, you know, you kind of have to get back. You got to get your mind right to try to say something of substance and thoughts for the people that rely on you. But, yeah, I mean, definitely sad about it, but I think you're the timing there of like all these other people are just like checking in on me like checking in on me. Because of a football game. I am, I assure you I'm a lot more mentally strong than allowing that to like be the, the defeating factor in my life.

So there you go. Yep. If in, I know we're wired very similarly. If for me when I was in my little, you know, the game kind of bothered me state. it just pushes me towards the thing that matters most, which is family. I don't let it get me down. You know, it's just whatever. I'm just, cool. I get to go spend more time with my wife and kids now.

This is great. You know, so. Well, right on, we got a fun show today. We're going to do some champs and jumps, senior bowl recap. And then we were going to talk about the NFL transfer portal. That's an interesting way to put it. Yeah. All of a sudden.

The NBA was, the NFL was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, NBA. I know that we only have one game. left, but this is not going to be about you. No, dude. Here's your Monday morning news dump. Cool to sneak that Luca trade in. What is it like middle of the night or something like that? I woke up and used the bathroom and I checked my phone.

I'm like, oh, that feels like a weird trade. And then the NFL said, bet is what happened there. Dude, I almost never check my phone in the middle of the night because I'm sleeping, you know? I put my phone up. I've taken Joe Marino advice and I do the DNA. D thing. However, I've been very, very sick since returning from Mobile. And so, you know, sometimes when you like sleep all day, it's like hard to sleep at night when you're sick. So that was happening. I was like waking up every hour on the hour. And so I was like, oh,

screw it. Like I couldn't fall asleep. So I just pop my phone on, look at Twitter. I'm like, what just what? That's insane. So I kind of, I almost caught it in real time. I think I saw it like 2.30 in the morning on Saturday night. But yeah, wild, wild trade. All right. Champs and jumps. Yeah, let's do it. I'll start with my champ of the week. And obviously, there's no games to reflect on. So I got to think outside the box a little bit. My champ of the week is Chip Kelly. Chip Kelly is now the offensive coordinator for the Las Vegas Raiders. And the last time we saw Chip Kelly in the NFL, he coached the number 27 scoring offense in the NFL. And they were 31st in yards, that amazing 2016 year is the 49ers head coach after things kind of fell apart with the Eagles.

And he goes to UCLA and is perfectly average head coach for UCLA. And of course, this past season with Ohio State, really good, right? Offense was really good. But he comes back to the NFL. And here's the part where I call him the champion. He's getting six million a season, man, to be an offensive coordinator in the NFL. Is that right? That's the numbers that I've seen.

That's the numbers that I've seen, Brett. Do you know what that means for coaches? Dave Canales, the head coach of the Panthers, does not get paid $6 million a year. This is a monumental moment for coordinators. Now, we've obviously seen the head coaching numbers really, really push up and up and up. And, you know, you look at a guy like Matt Rule and him getting that 10 million per deal. And then, of course, Ben Johnson gets 13. And I'll say that Chip Kelly is the champ for whatever.

Like he's going to be the OC of the Raiders. We'll see. But I think what he did for coordinators in the NFL by getting this deal is a big deal because there's no salary cap for coaching. And you haven't really seen something like this push that market. And I think Chip Kelly has done something very good for coordinators in the NFL. And whether it's warranted or not, I don't. I think that's, we'll see. But that's a pretty big moment for coordinators and what their pace is going to be moving

forward. Dude, that is, that is an astronomical figure. Like Ben Johnson was the highest paid OC last year at like three million the year. So Chip more than doubled or roughly doubled that up. That's crazy. It's like arguably not even that good. Yeah. It's what I say. I don't know what he's done to deserve this. You know what I mean? I don't know. But is the leverage that that gives so many coordinators especially, you know, as they're becoming more selective. You see more and more these guys pulling out of head coaching gigs and all that to say, you know what? Yeah, I'll stick around, but it's going to be seven million a season. You know what I mean? Like, this is unprecedented

money for coordinators. Do you know if they gave them like an assistant head coaching title or something? I don't know. Albert Brewer is the one that came through with the six million. I just, is this, is this partially because Pete Carroll's like, I'm too old for this crap. Like, I need someone to help run the total show, not just. just the offense. Patrick Graham is their defensive coordinator, Chip Kelly. I think he's got a, he's going to be able to be CEO Pete Carroll, right? That's, that'll be good for him. Yeah. At 73 years old taking this job, really looking to establish culture. And then I think they're positioned well, you know, it's a three year deal for Pete Carroll, which is not normal, right?

The head coach is typically a five year deal to start things off. Yeah. So I think there's a pretty clear path here. And look, maybe if things go well, and Chip Kelly or Patrick Graham eventually become the head coach, but I don't know. I think this is a big champ move for for assistant coaches in the NFL. Yeah, that's nuts. That's nuts. Obviously, the Pete Carroll thing is like,

hey, let's do this for three years and you can, you know, really work on shifting this culture. And then we'll probably move on. And I think it seems mutual that that will happen. But all right, give us your, give us your chump. My chump of the week, Brett Whitefield. Cam Newton.

Oh? I miss something. Yeah, you certainly miss something. You know what he said this week? You're out down there in South Alabama. You missed this one. Cam Newton came out and said that he would not give back his NFL MVP for a Super Bowl win. He said it's more important to him that he has an NFL MVP than a Super Bowl win.

And he went on this rant about how respectfully, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Nick Foles are Super Bowl winning quarterbacks. Yeah. But he talked about how the NFL MVP is something that speaks to him doing his job. And that's what football is. It's 11 guys doing their job and that he was able to do it at the highest level. And he talked about impact. He said that was more important than being able to say he's a Super Bowl winning quarterback.

And I'll tell you what. You know who else is an NFL MVP? Matt Ryan. do we care? Do we care? No, we don't. He was. Yeah, you forgot that, didn't you? Yeah. There's your Brad Johnson NFL MVP. It happens both ways. Your legacy, Cam Newton, would be greater if you won that Super Bowl. And when you didn't fall on that fumble, oh, I was just going to say it. Yeah, dude, that's what we remember. Nobody remembers that and we won't remember in 10 more years that you were the NFL MVP in 2015. What we're going to

remember is that your team went 15 and 1 and you didn't go on a loose ball. your legacy would be better. If Cam Newton, if Cam Newton brought a Super Bowl to Charlotte, his legacy would be way more significant than the fact that he was a 2015 NFL MVP. There would be statues of the man everywhere. And he's not even loved. You've lived in this town. People don't love Cam Newton here.

Nope, not anymore. That's great. So, yeah, I guess I'm not shocked. The guy who failed to fall on a loose ball and sacrifice himself for one play cares more about box score statistics than winning Super Bowls. I guess that shouldn't surprise me. Right, especially with the fickle nature of what decides the NFL MVP. Yeah, right.

Come on, dude. You had a great year, dude. You had a great year. But you know what I remember about Cam Newton? Is that you never had back-to-back winning seasons as a starting quarterback of the Carolina Panthers. Oof. I'm not going to lie, Joe. I didn't, I don't even remember, I don't, like, vividly remember him being MVP that year.

Like obviously you saying it now. I'm like, oh, yeah, Kim's an MVP. But I just shows you how like how meaningless it kind of is. Yeah, it's back to back years. Back, it was Matt Ryan and it was Cam Newton, the most forget NFL MVP's and NFL history. You know what people don't forget?

Super Bowl wins. Yeah. And they kind of both had tragic Super Bowl losses too, if you think about it. Cam with the fumble, then Matt Ryan blowing the, well, that, and that Super Bowl against Denver really unraveled from that point forward.

Yeah. It was early in the game. And then, of course, Matt Ryan, we all know what happened there, 28 to 3. But yeah, dude, I mean, all time chump moment saying that. I think he's, I think he's dead wrong. I think he's dead wrong about that. Oh, 100%. The only thing that matters is winning.

You know what's funny is if I'm not mistaken, when he had this rant with Stephen A. Smith, he's wearing a hat with like feathers out of it. It's like, yeah, there you go. That MVP is another feather in the hat. But boy, boy, I tell you what, man. I think it's undeniable that the legacy would be so much greater if he was a Super Bowl winning quarterback then. Oh, yeah, that was really cool in 2015. Great job losing to the Broncos. But Peyton Manning couldn't even throw a football anymore.

100%. All right. So there's my champs and jumps of the week. Coming up next, we'll get to Brett's champs and chumps of the week. And of course, start reflecting on the senior bowl and all the things that Brett Whitefield learned down in Mobile, Alabama. Folks, be sure. to stick with us. All right, Brett. All right. Yeah. I wanted to go second because mine, you know,

kind of play right into our second topic here today. So we're going to go chump first. So I don't want to spend a ton of time talking the chump. But I do want to spend a little bit of time talking the champ. So the chump is Cleveland Brown's special teams coach, Bubba Ventron. For those that aren't aware, he was the coach of the, is the American team, right, Joe?

Shoot. One of the teams down there? Yeah, the American team. He was the coach of the American team at the senior bowl, running the practices. And this is my eighth senior ball I've been to, I think, eighth or ninth. And I have never once seen less competitive practices ever at a senior ball. I've never once seen a practice so low on energy. They didn't even have music playing.

Just dead quiet. It was so weird. I've never once seen a. senior bowl practice start with 35 minutes of special teams work. This is a two hour practice, Joe. It's not like they have, it's not like an NFL practice where they can work for three plus hours. It's a two hour practice.

Sometimes they cut those short even. And they started one of the days of practice with 35 minutes of special teams. And then they stretched. What are we doing, Bubba? And I know I love Jim Nagy. I won't say a bad word about Jim Nagy. He's the man. Absolute dude.

And he does a great. job of the senior bowl. But part of the issue with the scattershot approach to the coaches, as opposed to what they used to do, is you get stuff like this. And there's been some wonky scenarios the last couple years, but this one takes the cake, man. I can't, I just really can't believe what I saw. I thought I was on an island and then slowly you start hearing murmurs from everybody. Everybody talked to you, what's up with these practices? These practices are terrible. Dude, no competition. It was so weird, Joe. And I know you've been to a lot of senior bowls. And here's the thing.

I even went back and watched the all 22 of the one-on-one reps, the seven-on-seven team period. You can feel it through the tape. The juice just isn't there. It's so weird, unlike anything I've ever seen. So he's my joke. Well, that's disappointing. The whole entire point of it is to compete and showcase these players.

And you've got to give them a chance to do that. And I've been there some years where you get those types of dull practices and they're tough. You feel bad if you feel bad for the players. But I was going to say the scatter shot thing. Isn't it now every year they rotate between the shrine and senior bowl, like one gets full coaching staffs and then the other one gets the scatter shot group of coaches. But bottom line is there's got to be a standard, right? There's got to be some type of a standard.

And that's disappointing. Yeah. And I love the idea of using it as an opportunity to develop future coaches too. that doesn't bother me. Maybe don't put a special teams guy in charge of running practice. I don't know. But all right. My champ, though, is TCU wide receiver Jack Bash. For those that aren't familiar with Jack's story, one fantastic prospect, came in with a lot to prove because he was used a very particular way at TCU, answered the bell on the field.

But more importantly, when you hear the guy's story, you know, rewind about a month to the New Orleans terrorist attacks. His brother, Tiger, was a hero that night and had rescued, saved multiple people from the terrorist attack, saved their lives, and in exchange for his own life. And so Jack came into this week with obviously a heavy weight on him. Every player at the senior bowl had a decal of Tiger Bech's number on their helmet to honor him. It was a huge topic of conversation. I think I'm the only guy that interviewed Jack that didn't ask him about his brother, which was intentional. I didn't want to, you know, didn't want to be that guy.

And then the way he ends the week after a phenomenal week of practice in the game, goes out, scores the game winning touchdown as times expiring. It's the senior ball. It's like, does the win and loss really matter? Not really. But the fact that he was there competing till the end for his brother, he gets the game winning score. Both benches cleared, American and national team.

They surrounded him. It was just a really freaking cool moment. And so Jack is my champ of the week for having to carry all that and perform and rise to the cream of the crop of the Senior Bowl. Yeah, that's special, man. That's special. That's probably our best champ story yet, man. That's good. That's good.

All right. Well, I am excited to pick your brain here. And, you know, I wasn't down there. I'm loosely familiar. I've seen a little bit of the practice stuff. I've had some conversations. But I want to kind of pick your brain on. your top observations.

And I think I'd like to start this conversation with quarterbacks. And I have recently taken the time to study Mr. Jackson Dart out of Ole Miss. And so I come in prepared to discuss him a little bit. But I know that you've been a bit of a fan of Jackson Dart. And not this recent like surge of Jackson Dart fans. You've been talking about Jackson Dart all season long. Like during the year early. the season, you were like, you kept on bringing his name up, bringing his name up.

And so now that I'm versed, now that you've seen him at the senior ball, want to kind of hear from you based on what you've learned about him and how, and I want to steal a phrase that you used in your one of the videos that came out from fantasy points about how it's about adding to your story. I think that's such a good way to talk about what not just a senior bowl is, but the entire draft process is, because you do have a tape resume that is the most important thing, but how do you add to the story? How did Jackson Dart add to his story? Oh, man. So there's things on the field, for sure, and there's things off the field. I'll start with on the field. So, you know, sometimes scouting college players and projecting them to the NFL is tricky

because they don't always come from systems that directly align with what the NFL does one to one. Jackson Dart definitely falls in that category. And I think most of the critics of Jackson Dart are going to come back and say, well, the playbook was weird, offense he ran was weird, similar to like a Hendon Hooker situation, or even a Jane Daniels last year.

And so for him to go into the Senior Bowl, basically primarily running out of shotgun his entire college career, very few under-center reps, especially in the run game. I thought this was a great statement that was made because out of the seven quarterbacks that were there, Jackson Dart was the only one that they put under center consistently

and allowed him to do, you know, run scheme of power, counter. There's a lot of misdirection stuff where the footwork involved, the ball handling. We talk about this with Miami Dolphins and Tua. There's all this intricate ball handling that goes on. Well, Dart was doing all of that stuff, never having put that on tape at the college level. And that's not just something you learn overnight. You know, like I think he is a quick,

learner. But that shows, that speaks to a level of preparation that I think extends beyond what you would expect for senior bowl week. Well, let me pause right there. I would, I'd like to add something to this because Matt Correll is a player that he didn't have his entire career with Lane Kiffin, but the last couple of seasons he was with Lane. And he wound up falling in the draft a little bit, the Panthers trade up for him. And I went to a training camp practice. And Matt Correll was one of quarterbacks. It was actually Baker Mayfield, Mac Corral, and somebody else was the other quarterback. And Ben McAdoe was the offensive coordinator. And it wasn't day one of training camp. It was several days

in a training camp. And when I tell you, Matt Corral literally could not execute a hand, like, Brett, he was falling over himself. Like literally couldn't fall, like literally couldn't get the forward down. And then like just getting to the different points where he's supposed to be to hand the ball, falling. trying to hand the ball off. It was, I couldn't believe what I was watching. So that's not, it's not nothing to be able, yeah. I mean, it's a big, literally not day one. This was training camp. He had had OTAs with all these opportunities and he could not not fall over himself to hand off the ball in basic just install session. Yeah. And this is why I'm emphasizing.

It sounds silly like, oh, it's just run game. Who cares? No, that stuff is important because what he basically put on tape is he can walk into any system now in the NFL and run it from day one. there's not going to be this giant learning curve. And when I say that the footwork is tricky, it's intricate. I'm not kidding. Like there's a lot of reps that go into this. And we're only a month removed from his season ending. So it's like either he's been working throughout his whole career or he spent the last

month getting ready. Either way, it's impressive. Right. So that's one thing. And then like, you know, the one-on-ones and seven-on-sevens, like he threw the ball fine. He didn't, he didn't blow it away. You know, I think back to like Justin Herbert's year, right? Like he dominated the senior bowl.

It was awesome. Like, he, Dart didn't do that. Okay. I won't lie to you. But he looked, he looked fine. He didn't do anything wrong either.

Um, but the all the non playing stuff is what really impressed me. Because I saw a guy who's a leader. I saw a guy who was, uh, constantly teaching. So, you know,

getting the huddle, players unsure what the play call is, what we're doing, darts out there showing receivers how to line up, showing the release he wants off the line of scrimmage. Like the attention to detail is awesome. I mean, when you see a guy, like, Darts started 46 games in college. Like, that's one of the new, the NFL has kind of come full circle where for a while

it was like, well, we want the inexperienced raw, untaped potential guy. Well, now we've realized actually starts in college matter. The more experience you bring to the NFL, the more likely you are to have success right away. Jaden Daniels, Brock Purdy, Bo Nix. The list, recent list is insane. He brings 46 starts at table. So that really shouldn't surprise us. but I don't think watching broadcast copy of Ole Miss tape,

you see that leadership trait. But being down on the field, man, just a vocal lead. The other thing is too, you compare it to the other quarterbacks. You didn't see that from the other quarterbacks. I didn't see Jalen Milro lining guys up and barking out play calls and teaching release packages on the side. Like that was Jackson Dart. Jackson Dart was in the mix.

He was the vocal leader of his team. He was getting everybody ready to play. And they could rely on him to be that source of knowledge and inspiration. And to me, like for quarterback play, it's just like being a head coach, man. That leadership trait is so valuable. And it's the one thing that you and I can't measure. I can't put that into a spreadsheet. I can't work out watching tape how, you know, how that trickles through.

It's really hard to do. So to see it up close and personal just made me even more confident in my evaluation of Jackson Dart. So this is where I landed after watching Jackson Dart over the weekend. And I knew we were going to talk about him. And this is all very helpful to try to paint the whole picture because in studying the film, it's not hard to recognize that he's got good size, sufficient arm, talent, maybe even slightly above average. He's got some nice mobility as well. I think there were times where, you know, not just catching an unsuspecting defense,

but making legitimate plays with his legs that are exciting. But then you obviously foil that against the complicating layers of the evaluation where he's going to be playing a different game in the NFL. You know, that's not going to be isolated, you know, scheme matchups where, you know, just kind of put it on them. And his guys made plays. And, you know, that's a lot of the benefit of that offense. He's setting protections, not really part of anything he'll ever, he ever did in college. Tight window throws not a ton of having to do that or read a progression and rip a ball or, you know, all those types of things that he'll be asked to do in the NFL.

So there is going to be an adjustment. So I think where this senior bull helped Jackson Dart was to start to answer and give you some clues about his ability to acclimate and do those things. And so I often look at scouting players based on the information I get in the media, which is pretty much tape and you can do research. But I'm never going to be able to sit down with Jackson Dart and get to know him and, you know, really find out, you know, how what makes him take or what he knows. You know, I have to take the information that I do get.

And then it's about risk assessment, right? Putting the evaluation together and what does that tell me about the most likely outcome based on historical norms? And because you just don't get a super clean transition, right, from what he's been asked to do what to what he will. And I, again, I know that there's other players that are in similar schemes that go to the NFL and and they do well, right? It's not, it's not a disqualifier by any means, but it does make the conversation more complicated and there is an adjustment ahead for him. So I say all that to say that the senior bowl felt like really that first opportunity to get a glimpse at how he can acclimate. And it sounds like he passed the test in a big way. Absolutely. That's a great way of framing it too,

Joe. Love that. So you're in. You're more in, basically. I'm more in. Yeah. You know, like I I'll be finalizing my, my QB scores this week. And I'm curious to see where he stacks up to Shudur Sanders. I've been a Shadur guy the whole way too, right? So I'm really curious to see how they end up. You know, I'm fairly confident Shardur will still be my top guy. But I think Dart has definitely closed the distance a little bit here. Don't you now listen, can disassociate yourself with anything that you think about

Jackson, Dart because I think that your evaluation has been pure. All right. I can all of a sudden, though, come on now. out of nowhere. There's a lot of hype. All right. We know how this goes. Media, like agents drive. They give things. Like, I understand how this goes. I've been in the game. I was offered money to say things about quarterbacks back in 2017 and I didn't do any of that stuff. How do you reconcile this? You know what I mean? For for all of a sudden, for there to be this

glow up in what appears to be like hype or valuation for Jackson Dart. Like, where do you find the truth and all that? Well, first of all, I don't, I don't want to make the I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn here but I will say 2023 I had I mocked Anthony Richardson in the top five before anyone thought he was a first round pick because I watched that I was watching the tape the whole season 24 I had J.J. McCarthy and Bo Nix and Michael Pennix all going top 15 in my first mock draft Joe that came out actually a year ago today I had J.J. McCarthy going top five and go read the replies on X.

It was, you have three quarterbacks in the first round that aren't going in the first round. Well, guess what? They all went top 12, every one of them. This year, same thing. I've had Dart. I did a show in, gosh, it was a year ago to the date. I did Ross Tucker's draft podcast, subbing for Emery. And he told me, well, hey, we know about these QBs.

Let's talk about next year's QBs. I had Jackson Dart as a first round pick a year ago. I've just been watching the tape, Joe. I don't know how else to explain it. I think guys come around full circle. There is a bit of an echo chamber in the draft community too. So all it takes is one big domino, right? Oh, Daniel Jeremiah put Jackson Dart in his top 40 or whatever.

Oh, I guess he might be pretty good then. So now we're going to adjust accordingly. By the way, PFF going into senior bull week, I don't, you know, I want to put them on blast. They had Jackson Dart as the 188th best player in the draft. I just want to put that out there. That's pretty funny to me. How do you reconcile?

And I'll be very direct. there's a lot of commentary that, of course, the fantasy community. And I, you know, your, your, your involvement in the fantasy community is very interesting because you're data driven, right? It's, it's unique. But like, there has been a lot of emphasis from the fantasy community to, like push up Jackson Darden. Like statistically, he's obviously very good. I think he's in a lot of ways appealing for that sector of this space. Like, how do you respond to that type of commentary that exists out there?

Yeah, that's tough. You know, there's definitely a, I mean, they're doing the same thing to Milro. Milro is a great runner. So they're like, well, man, if this guy, if we can get draft capital, that's the biggest correlator to success for fantasy purposes, draft capital. So if they can get Milro in the first round, they feel really good about that from a dynasty standpoint because he's going to give you three to four years of really good production with those legs. So it's tough.

I will say this, though, like evaluating prospects is not a for sure thing. and people have the habit of talking about it like it is. And what we've learned, and there's been multiple very qualified data scientists that have figured this out, if you just go off of like a consensus board every year, if the NFL drafted off of media consensus board, they'd be more accurate than the NFL.

Yeah. Scouts. So like, it's not that we're really good at doing this, it's that I think the, I think some of its common sense, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And I think,

Jackson darts, pretty common sense. Coming full circle to that. You do it. Your NFL general manager, you draft them in the first round? Absolutely. Yeah. He said it with his chest.

Yeah, he'd be a, he's a top 12 player for me. And considering it's QB and you're, you know, if you're a QB needy team at, you know, two, three, five, six, seven. Yeah. Go for it.

Let it ride. Fit matters. Fit matters. Yeah, for any quarterback, right? And so when you think about fits and schemes and styles, what do you like for Jackson Dart out there? And you don't, you can detach yourself from need.

I don't need you to say, say, Mary need with this. It's just literally, what type of environment would you think is best for Jackson Dart? So the closest offense I can remember translating right away was what Jaden Daniels did at LSU. Very similar to what Dart did at Ole Miss this year. A lot of vertical passing, deep outside the numbers, taking big shot posts. A lot of RPO's built into. So he was either like a design throw or ripping something downfield, right? That's what Jaden did in his last year, LSU.

So something like that. Maybe Chip Kelly and with the Raiders, obviously they need a QB2. So that almost seems like it works. Chip's going to do a lot of that, right? A lot of not necessarily RPO heavy, but he's going to do a lot of quick game, a lot of screens, get the ball out quick and on time. And then when the time is right, we're going to take our big play action shots downfield. I feel like that would that would serve him well.

I also love the idea of like I don't think darts a finished product. Like I think you can clean up some of the quarterback nuancy stuff, especially as he gets into more progression and coverage-based reads. So pairing him with a Tom Brady influence, I think would be huge in that regard. So I think that would be a great fit. I don't mind what Callahan does in Tennessee. You know, he's not going to go first overall, Joe. I'm not saying that.

You told me to not marry myself to that idea. But gosh, I love what Callahan could potentially do with DART. Darts is a guy who's not going to hold the ball too long. He's not going to take unnecessary sacks, which is kind of the opposite of Will Levis, the opposite of Cam Ward, even if you're looking at that. Darts going to try to get the ball out on time, run the plays as they're designed. And, you know, there's the vertical element that Callahan loves there, too. So I think that'd be another good spot.

Yeah, whenever I set the table for that question, I was thinking about the Raiders. Yeah. And maybe there is enough arrows pointing at it that's like, okay, Chip Kelly, the need. They probably don't want to trade up, right? I wouldn't want to. They probably get them at, is it six, wherever they're picking something like that? You can see the path just being there. So maybe that's what they do.

But it's fascinating. And I think I hope all of this is true, because. I think this class needs, you know, needs to have another guy. Because even for whatever you think about Cam Ward and Shadur Sanders, those aren't like consensus should be top three quarterbacks, you know. So I really have become a fan of this draft class in a lot of ways. It just doesn't necessarily satisfy with your quarterbacks, with your receivers, with your offensive tackles.

you know, those are like the, typically what drives that top 10 and it doesn't have those things, but it does have D-line as corners, right? There's a lot of good in this class, but, you know, it'd be nice to feel like there is, it's not just two quarterbacks that there is a third one in this mix. And I'm excited to go on this journey with, with you on Jackson Dart. I won't be as high on him as you are. And that's mostly because I think I'm a little bit more of a doubles guy. with my draft work.

And I don't even know that he's boom or bust. I don't think that's a fair way to put Jackson Dart. I think there's just going to be enough questions about the transitions that I'm going to be like, I don't know. You know, that's where that's where I'm going to probably land on that. So it'll be fun navigating the next several weeks on this podcast with you. I know, I know Cam Ward wasn't at the senior ball, but gut like gut right now, you like Dart or Cam better.

Cam. Really? Yeah. Okay. because I like the tools. I'm going to like the tools more. You just said you're a double sky. He's that, that's the ultimate boomer. Yeah, but with, I think he's got top tool. Like, he's got special physical upside. That's so that's different for me with a quarterback at least. And I, and I, and I, I don't know that.

Dude, if I was the general manager of the Tennessee Titans, I'm probably not sitting there really excited about drafting camp ward at number one. So there's two different questions. Who do I like more ward or dart versus, okay, would I actually be the team that is willing to marry myself to that quarterback. And you don't like Shador? I like Shador for certain situations. I'd like Shador for Tennessee. I think he's kind of exactly that type of quarterback that would make sense for them. I wouldn't ideally pick him at one, but I don't think you have a choice. If you like Shador and you're willing to pick him at trade back and pick him at five, well, then you just need to pick him at one. That's a thing about this class. And I know we're talking senior bowl, but so in my scoring

system, Joe, I get there's premium position bumps. So quarterbacks get a little bit of a bump in their score. So like if I'm just, you know, being candid, last year I had four QBs in my top 12, I think, overall. This year, I'm going to like my first quarter, Shadoor is my top quarterback probably. He's going to come in around player five or six for me, which is wild because he's getting a premium position bump and still only get in the five or six. So that's a, yeah, interesting point you just made. All right. plenty of more senior bowl discussion to come.

We'll be right back and do exactly that. Okay, Brett, we spent a lot of time on Jackson Dart. I figured we would. I figured we would. But there's other things that happened at the senior bowl that I'd like to hear from you. And first of all, is there any other quarterback conversation worth having? I know that it's like Jackson Dart and then everyone else did. Was there anything else that stood out to you?

I'll just, yeah, like real quick. So like it wasn't a great group, you know, and I know it's tough. when you're not getting a Shadour Sanders and a Cam Ward to show up. So Jalen Milrow was probably the second best guy and he had a rough week, Joe. Like his first day of practice, he started 0 for 11. That's including one-on-one drills. And you know how hard that is to go 0-for-11. Like that's rough, right?

He did clean it up a little bit. Got a little bit better as the week went on, which I think was promising. I also got really good video that sounds funny of him just throwing the football on the sideline and like and I could I can break down his full throwing motion he has some issues in his throwing motion and I only want to bring this up because I look at you know he's a very inaccurate thrower but I've there's a clear gap in the way he throws the football compared to a guy like Anthony Richardson who has literal textbook throwing mechanics like every QB coach in the world would teach him to throw football the way he does and is still inaccurate so that's

concerning because it's like well I don't know where we go from here you're already doing it the way we're teaching you what's wrong. It's got to be a lower half base issue. With with Milro, I actually kind of like that he's got an issue with the throwing mechanism. It's like, cool. We have something we can work on from day one. We know if we fix this, it gets better kind of thing. So I like that. I just want to throw that out there. I like that. Okay. Let's get to these tight ends. I feel like that that was a big theme coming out of Mobile is that there's a really good group of tight ends. and obviously not even all of them are a part of this. Who was your big standout or winner amongst a tight end group?

Yeah, Elijah Arroyo arguably had the best week across all positions. I've heard that for more than one person. Yeah, and he, it's rare for a tight end to dominate the way. I think like Trey McBride had a really good year. Yeah. Other than that, I don't remember a tight end literally just putting everyone on blast. I mean, they tried everything and they brought corners over. They brought safeties line, but they tried everything.

like tried everything. Nobody could stop him. And when you look at the build, the frames, oh, you know, almost 6, 5, 250 pounds. He's that modern day, just freak athlete tight end that can run routes, insane body control, insane hands. You know, I talked about this was the, no, that was not on the show, never mind. It's criminal that the dude had one year production at Miami. And unfortunately, the analytics community is going to hate him as a prospect because he's a one-hit wonder.

but the tape and not only actually not only that he did it on 34 grabs this year 35 grabs so like 600 700 yards on 35 grabs is kind of crazy for a tight end so like the production just wasn't there in college but man he looks every bit of a not only a starting NFL tight end but like a legit stud in the NFL and then him in the run game is awesome too Joe like he he is a more than a willing blocker he's physical he's aggressive stick his face in a fan kind of mentality he'll come up and just whack you. So everything about what he did this week just stood out like every green flag imaginable. How about this Harold Fandon from Bowling Green?

I know you're excited to see him. What do he what do you show you? Yeah, real quiet day one. I felt like he, the moment was getting to him a little bit, did not look like himself. Even route running, he was real stiff looking. And then as the week went on, he kind of loosened up. Kind of reminded me of Xavier Leggett last year. Legate had a terrible day one and then slowly worked into a good week.

Fainan was kind of that. The problem is he was getting overshadowed by Arroyo the whole week because they were on the same team. I will say the body control and hands translated for sure. Some of the route running was like I don't think maybe he has the top end speed I was hoping for. And that's that's always the tough. He's coming from Bowling Green University. So like or Bowling Green State, I forget which one. Level competition is not great. So when when Harold Fanon is stretching the seam against those guys, it looks different than stretching the seam against NFL safeties. It just does. Now, the nice thing for Fandon is his best tape was against Power 5 schools.

Penn State. He annihilated Penn State this year. They were, you know, almost won the daddy. So that's good for him. But I don't think maybe he has the top end speed we were hoping for. And I think for his archetype, that's really important. So I'm curious to see what he's going around at the combine. Because he's only 230 pounds, Joe. And so like you're you're already in risk territory of being a part-time player when you're that size. So it's like he has to be really when he's on the field for that to work. Let me ask you about one more tight end, and that's Jackson Hawes out of Georgia Tech.

I know everybody raves about the blocking profile, which matters. I think you know, you see these teams want to run wide zone and you got to be able to win the edges, man. I think it's important. I think the best teams that run the football have tight ends like Jackson Hawes.

Did he show you enough as a receiver to really bump up the valuation, or is this just a blocking tight end? Maybe in a normal tight end class, but this is, he's going to get buried, man. You know, there's just so many good tight ends that do it all, too. I will say as a receiver, it was really quiet.

Red zone day, though, he started to show out. Big frame, big hands, had a couple really nice grabs in the end zone on red zone day. So, you know, I think maybe he is your throwback in line blocking tight end that can give you a little something in the red zone. Who's the wide receiver? You're, you know, you love receivers. You watched them. Okay, go ahead. Let's hear about it.

Well, I already mentioned Jack Besh as my champ. Okay. I'll just say from an evaluation standpoint, coming to the week, he was basically a power slot at TCU. He was a tight end transfer from LSU to TCU. They move him to slot. He loses like 20 pounds or whatever. He's about 6 to 215-ish. Coming from that system at TCU where he was a power slot, you don't see a lot of reps

him winning on the outside. You don't see him get the chance to go route a guy up. A lot of what he does is finding soft spots in zone, you know, working angles and then stretching the seam. You know, he caught some seam balls, some go balls down the middle of the field, but it's different because they're usually contested situations. Him, they basically played him at X receiver all week, Joe. I mean, in two receiver sets, he was in the slot, but, you know, when it was three receiver sets, he was at X. And I thought that was a huge thing for him. He had to go prove he could do it.

Similar to Ladd McConkey last year, who also had a really good. slot resume, but not a lot on the outside. I mean, he came and stacked up DBs, one of the blind spot. One of the consistent teams all week, too, is these receivers had no idea how to get off press. There was a lot of dancing, chopping feet, six second releases. Best was not one of those guys. He quickly went out there and dismembered press coverage, you know, and then the separation was there, but then when he wasn't separating, he was winning at the catch point. Easily the best body control, I think, of anyone there. And that speaks volumes. what about this is it tez johnson yeah tez small right like 150 pounds something like that he wasn't

one of the guys i was going to talk about but i wanted at least ask about him because i mean yeah these guys like this i mean i in a senior bowl showcase opportunity it's oftentimes you see these players show up and it's like guys trying to cover these players are like trying to chase a rabbit like is is the profile enough for him like you see two to out won the second round. You know, you've seen a wide range of, you know, Xavier Worthy goes first round. Tank Dell falls a little bit, but he looks really good.

Like, where does he fall on this lexicon of tiny receivers? Yeah, this week is designed for guys like Tess to just cross everyone. So, yeah, I'm a skept. I'm always skeptical. One-on-ones are not like, you can't take everything from him. Sure. I'm looking for you to add things I didn't see on tape. I already knew Tess is a good route runner.

I think the one thing that was fun is press coverage. Like, they, they intentionally brought over the biggest corners they had, the Western Michigan kid, Coney, they were bringing him over to get him on Taz. He's like 6 to 200 plus. And they literally couldn't get hands on him, Joe,

off the line of scrimmage. Like he was beating press without getting touched, which was fun. Easy wins. The weight 156 is crazy small. That is like, but he moves like a Sindara elf. I mean,

literally, What did you say? I said a Sindarin elf. You think there's any chance I know what the heck that means? What is this in Daryan elf? Are you familiar with the Lord of the Rings series? No, no chance. No chance.

Really? No, dude, those movies are three hours long in their fantasy. That's the first of all. You said movies. There's books also, Joe, and the books are better than the movies. Come on. Not a chance. Not for me.

I'm glad you liked them, but that's not for me. So there's a main character in the Fellowship of the Ring called Legolas. Orlando Bloom's character in the movie, the blonde hair. he's a Sundaran elf. And Sindarin elves, when they run in combat, they don't really touch the ground. They kind of like float. It's kind of cool. I'll be looking this up.

So Tess is a Sindarin. Christian Gonzalez, former duck as well, was also a Sundarin elf to me. Yeah, these guys just float when they run. It's insane. It's insane to watch. And Ted's is like that. He just doesn't touch the ground when he runs. Change of directions, ridiculous.

I think he's a better prospect than Tutu by a Mile. Probably right there with Xavier Worthy for me should be. a second round pick like where they should have been. Anyways, yes, Ted's fine. I just, I don't think he stood out. I don't think he really added a whole lot to the story. I'm getting nitpicky, but one thing that bothers me is when he's getting pressed, his first step is backwards.

Can't do that. It doesn't work in the NFL. That's an inviting surface area. Yeah, you're going to get crunched. Yeah. Okay. Let me ask you about running backs here and then we'll go to break and get into some Miles Garrett Cooper Cup conversation.

but running back for me has always been a difficult position to really assess at the senior bowl. What I do enjoy is you get to see some good pass pro reps. That's fun, at least in terms of, you know, blocking technique. You're not really scanning protections and getting an idea for the mental side, but physically how they can do it. But obviously there's not a lot of live tackling and certainly contact balance and things like that matter a ton for running back. So with that in mind, what were you able to learn about this group of running backs

and what really stood out to you. So I like to see how the guys look in person. It sounds funny, but I actually like the physical. Body types. Yeah, body types. So like one of the most impressive specimens I've ever seen at the senior bowl was Brian Robinson Jr. And going into that week, I had some exposure to his tape,

but didn't think he was awesome. But the moment I met him, Joe, I was like, that's a day two pick. I mean, for sure. NFL's not passing on that guy. Absolute unit. Ollie Gordon was that dude for me this week. And I like to, when I say I like to see them in person, I walk right up to him and talk to him,

stand next to him. Like I just, I got to get a vibe for the size. The, Ollie Gordon is a menacing dude. Oh my God. That's a big man. 233 pounds. And he, he looks like a UFC fighter Joe, like just yoked, like ready to rock. So a huge win for me.

And then Devin Neal, same thing. Like, you know, the way he plays is more of like a Taj Spear style game. So you're a little concerned about the site. He weighed 220. Like that dude can move like that at 220. That's crazy. So I piece those two things together. Like what I see on tape plus the fact he's doing that at 220, that that bodes well.

A lot of people are throwing that Alvin Camara comp on Neal. It's like, well, Elvin Camara is doing that at 220. Well, guess what? So is Devin Neal. So that's a box check for me. And then the other thing I look for, I really want to know how these guys translate into three-down skill sets. You mentioned the past bro. You get a really good look at that for sure, but also the route running.

So a guy like Ali Gordon who has excellent contact balance, typically that translate into being able to be an effective pass down player because you have the body control to set up for pass. And then you also have that balance to be able to run routes as a big, big running back. And I think he actually displayed that. He didn't have a bunch of, like he's not going to be a pass game weapon or anything like that. But he put enough out there this week that I was like, okay, this guy, it can be legit in the past game from a past pro standpoint and from a route running standpoint. So huge wins across the board there. Prashard Smith, another guy, SMU. He was a converted wide receiver from Miami.

Transters the SMU, they've moved to running back. We've seen similar success stories. Tyrone Tracy. There's another one I'm missing. I'm forgetting anyways. Guys who go from receiver to running back for their last year of college and show out. Bershard was one of them. He went from like 19 career carries going into this year to 235 this year.

and handled the load as running back. Obviously he's going to be great in the past game because he's a converted wide receiver. But he, you know, he looked at the part, you know, only 202 pounds, but he carries it well. He's rocked up. He's not super tall, so he's not like overly long or anything. Really liked what I saw from all week,

a willingness in pass row to stick his face in there and absorb contact. Footwork and all that hand-a-placement can be cleaned up. You know, these guys work on pass for like three minutes a week in college. So it's not like, you know, it's a refined skill set I'm looking for. I just want to see a willingness. And he had that willingness.

And then he was just great everywhere else. So those three guys probably stood out the most. All right. Plenty of great takeaways from Brett Whitefield from his time at the senior ball. Coming up next, a little bit of trade chatter in the National Football League, Miles Garrett, Garrett, Cooper Cup. We'll get into that here in just a moment. Folks, be sure to stick with us.

All right, Brett, Miles Garrett, future Buffalo bill. Let's talk about it. man, get out of here. Well, you've already got Zadaria Smith and Aidan Hutchinson. That'll be enough for you. Dude, this is big, man. And obviously the Browns have said they don't want to trade them and they're not going to trade them and all that. But Miles Garrett coming out in his statement saying the goal has never been to go from Cleveland to Canton.

His goal is to compete for and win a Super Bowl. Pretty straightforward. And that was pretty much throwing Andrew Barry's words right back in his face about his prospect. And look, the Browns are in trouble, man. They goofed on the Deshawn Watson trade. They goofed on the Deshawn Watson contract. It's crippled their organization. And that's not going to change anytime soon.

And with Miles Garrett 29, he turns 30 next December, they're not in any position to maximize whatever Miles Garrett has left to give. And they can try to hold him hostage. And, of course, ultimately they have the ability to do that. But if the Browns are going to have a good next chapter in Cleveland Browns football, the best thing they could probably do is stockpile assets. And if they're not going to be able to maximize Miles Garrett, free them up, let him go. Yeah.

And so I'm sure this will be complicated, but I do think that the Browns should trade Miles Garrett. And I think they will. I think Andrew Barry, to a certain extent, has to play hardball to create more value in the offer, right? Unlike what the Dallas Mavericks just did with Luca Donchich. They have to talk to multiple teams. Yeah. I have to have to play a little bit hard to get, which I get. But I think ultimately Garrett has all the leverage here. And there's just the overwhelming reality that, yeah, this is the right move for us. Like,

Garrett's an all-world player. He's 29 and, you know, your team stinks. So like, you have to move on. You have to get what you can for him. What I'm curious on, Joe, is what you think the compensation required to get him is going to be. And I listen to Diana Rusini, who is, you know, up, up close and personal with the Cleveland Browns. She's saying a first and some change. That seems low, Joe. I feel like you get 31 offers if that was true. Yeah, that's what's interesting. And I've been in this space long enough. You've been in this space long enough that when you start to like really ponder what trade packages will be, you're going to get a lot of resistance and a lot of people saying that's too much. That's not enough. whatever. That's what Rucini said. Spotwreck said a one, three and a six.

Yeah, look at, I mean, of course, the Kalil Mack trade gives us a great case study. It's Mac and a two and some change for two first round picks and they got a two back. People forget that. They got a two back in that trade when the Bears and Raiders did that deal back in 2018. And obviously, Miles is two years older than Kilalomac was at the time. but it certainly feels like to me that it's a first round pick, a day two pick, and maybe some change. If I'm a, if I'm a team like the bills, I offer my first round pick this year and next year and be done with it.

100% dude. Yeah. Like you're right there. You're giving a pick 30 lines, what, 28 or something like that, I'm sure. 29. And then whatever your first round, who freaking cares? Like you're going to invest your first round pick in a player anyways. So the net is basically a first round pick.

to get Miles Garrett. Well, I think Miles Garrett's the best defensive player in the league. Agreed. Well, for the lines, they might have the one you could argue with in Hutchinson. You know? And look, I mean, obviously our teams are part of this conversation. You have to think the commanders are a big team, you know, that should be in on this. But I think the thing with Miles Garrett is he does have that no trade clause. And so a lot of it's going to be contingent on who he views as the contenders. certainly I would think Detroit and Buffalo are absolutely on that. Does he think, you know, I think Washington in a lot of ways caught lightning in a bottle.

But to me, he would be very much, I think the job he'd have to do for Washington is bigger than the job he'd have to do for Detroit or Buffalo. Agreed. The betting favorites right now are to Philly, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, and there's a fifth one that's up there. I don't remember. So it depends on where you look. this one from bet online they have cowboys commanders chiefs raiders 49ers eagles bills packers lions oh wow i haven't i've heard it's dude it's i've seen so many different iterations of it okay interesting dallas is 100% not doing this like that's just not going to happen

boy that's going to be a bad sound clip if it ends up happening well what if what if they just swapped parsons for garrett i could see jerry doing that respectfully i don't think miles Garrett should look at Dallas as a contending team. No, he shouldn't. Yeah, so I think he would say kick rocks to Dallas. He should. I know he, dude, I was at the star a few years ago for Oline masterminds and Miles Garrett came walking through. So like he's, he played college ball in Texas. Like I'm sure that there's that piece. Houston, I mean, Houston doesn't need an edge rusher, right? Not that you don't ever not need Miles Garrett, but you have Danielle Hunter and Will Anderson.

You're probably looking to improve your team in other ways. maybe you throw Garrett at three tech then in that situation. Sure. Yeah, we'll figure it out. But yeah, man, I feel like this is going to happen and it should happen. And obviously that comes to the new deal. I'm sure. Bosa's at 34 million APY. The second highest paid edges is Josh Hines Allen at 28 and a quarter. So you're going to pay him, you know, 35 million plus per and you shouldn't really worry about that. But I'm excited to see what happens here. I mean, I'm certainly hopeful. I'm hoping for the bills. I hope that they get one of him,

Max Crosby or Trey Hendrickson. That's my fantasy for this offseason. You and I are in the same boat. Yeah. What? I got a question for you. So the way that contract he's on was structured, he's got all this insane void money.

Well, that's because they've re, they've restructured the deal pretty much every season. So it's not a good trade for Cleveland. So that's going to be in trouble. Right. they're going to eat 36 million in dead cap with trading it. Yeah, okay. That's kind of what I was.

There's hurdles, man. There's, there's complicating factors in this trade idea, for sure. So that's something to think about. I would rather eat the cap and still get the two first room picks than just ride it out with Miles and waste his career. Right. That's what they should do.

What about Cooper Cup? This came through, felt like pretty suddenly, where the team informed Cooper Cup that he was, they're trying to trade him immediately. And he's like, okay, let me just make an announcement here to the world. Nowhere near the compensation, right, for Cooper Cup, who's aging, injury issues, but certainly a player that I think will have some interest out there and just a matter of like what landing spots.

I think this is going to happen. Cooper Cup's played his last game for the Rams. That's true. What teams he play is next step? four. I'll throw Houston out there as his landing spot. Makes sense. Yeah, it probably costs what a fourth or fifth round pick too, especially with the contract they're taking on. Something like that, yeah. Yeah, nothing crazy. I, yeah, Houston just, for one, they just, the OC they just hired, it's coming from the Rams. So there's some basic dot connecting there. But also,

think Dell might not play this year at all. Stefan Diggs is a free agent. He's going to go to Dallas and play with his brother. Yeah, they need a guy. And in fact, when you look at the deficiencies of C.J. Strauss game, they could really use a guy like Cooper Cup that would keep him on schedule. Yeah. And give him, though, you know, some short part of the field separation. Like, hey, let's continue to work towards getting the ball out quickly and stop taking freaking unnecessary sacks. So I think Cup would be a big win.

Now, how much juices cup have left in the tank? I don't really know. He died down the stretch, dude. Right. Right. Literally. Washington stands out to me, New England stands out to me. See, I don't see Washington because they drafted Luke McCaffrey,

very similar player, not just because he's white. And I think like he looked good. I thought his tape was good this year. So like I don't know. And I'm not sure Cup can win on the outside anymore. So I think you kind of have to find that slot home for him. See, I think I'm less willing to say Luke McCaffrey prevent. me from Cooper Cup if I really believe in it. I'm concerned about Cooper Cup for other reasons,

but I really, so gun to my head, I'd probably take Luke McCaffrey right now. Well, you can have both. You have both players. You could, I guess. Um, who else? Tampa. Yeah, because Godwin's a free agent, right? Yeah, be, that'd be nice. Evans, McMillan and in Cup. I mean, what about Jacksonville? yeah i mean with colin i think you can understand it but i mean what do you think the outlook for christian kirk is there you know that's kind of an interesting layer yeah i for whatever reason was assuming he's a free agent but i guess that might not be true no he's bet he's got another year left at least does he yeah well that's probably not a thing then um oh what about chicago they need a slot yeah yeah yeah yeah

it all depends on the thing about Cooper Cup is it's just we know he can ball it's just there's like injury stuff that's very concerning there's you know it felt like he really kind of fell off last year and the Rams couldn't be more eager to get rid of them and then that all says a lot you know yeah I mean did it it felt like this was coming though right it did but then they decided to not do it during the season when there was like the momentum for it to happen He thought, okay, well, maybe this is going to, we're going to rally here. And this does put the Rams in a spot too. They're suddenly going to very much need a receiver.

Yeah. Do you think they draft one or do they bring one in? They're in an interesting spot because Puka hasn't been the bastion of good health either. Going back to college, I mean, that was the biggest gap in his tape, Joe, is that he missed like five games every season he played. And the way he plays, I mean, you can kind of understand it. Like, he's a dog, dude. They're on fire, crazy.

ball to the wall every play. Yeah, I agree. So, like, I don't know that I feel great about not having a legit number two on my team with Pookas, my number one. So, yeah, they're going to need to figure that out. Yeah, maybe a low key T. Higgins spot. Ooh. Ooh. Well, because that there's the other piece of the Puka conversation is this. They, they, they have to pay them. Yeah, they have two more years of cost control anyways. Right. But like, for you're going to be hesitant about giving that guy 30 something million a year based on the injuries. You probably play out that rookie deal. You franchise him and move on, right? Like, I mean, if he goes back to back like 16, 17 games seasons without a, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's got to do that. Yeah. I think that's in your mind. That's what you're thinking. Play out the rookie deal. Was this year three or year two? This is the second season.

This is a, yeah. Cheese. He's a stud. When he's out of the field, he's a stud. Like there's no doubt. It's, man, that's tough. And I don't feel like enough teams consider that, though, Joe. Because it has, it's not like he's dealing with like all this long term stuff. It's just like, oh, I play too hard and, you know, bummed up my shoulder. They ask him to, though, he's blocks. I mean, a lot of like manufactured throws and go get the ball out of, you know, he takes, goes over the middle.

Like, he's a dude. But yeah, true. And there, yeah, that's going to be a different looking Rams receiver core. I've appreciated, though, that about McVeigh, like, changes every year. You know, it's never just like, this is what we are. There's so much evolution. And I, I've, I've learned to really appreciate McVeigh and how he evolves.

And like, they're probably the organization right now that's the best at player development, replacing coaches. Like, they get gutted every year with, with their coaching staff. And then they just, you look at the, I find myself every year looking at the roster. I'm like, I don't know, I don't know if they got the stuff, you know. start slow and then the next thing you know they win the division and they're a competitive team in the playoffs and sometimes I win the Super Bowl. We champ less need a couple weeks ago. So, I mean, yeah.

He's a dude. Real quick, would you take Cooper Cup on the bills? Amari Cooper is a free agent, right? No, the bills don't. The bills need a vertical field stretcher on the outside, not a, they don't need another power slot. You have Mac Hollins, bro. Right. I love Mac Hollins.

And I hope he's back for a one year, $3 million deal. but the bills need somebody that can win down the field. Their vertical passing offense is bad. Mack Holland is like the run our test of the NFL. I love Mac, man. I love Mac, but you just hate it. He can't be your best vertical receiver and be a serious offense, you know? My point is you just hate playing against the guy, but if he's on your team, you love him.

What's so bad about playing against him because he's chippy and all that stuff? He's so chippy. He gets in your head, psychological, I mean, he's just waging psychological warfare every step. he's usually right too that's the thing like he's talking crap and then he will make you look bad at some point he's nuts dude he's nuts for sure in in a million different ways he's nuts he doesn't he walk around barefoot all year barefoot doesn't use utensils you should check out his instagram account i've learned so much i learned how to use a can opener i've learned how to fold a fitted sheet he's brought value to my life outside of just being a fun player to root for that's just awesome

yeah he's awesome dude all right let's get out of here man we'll be back uh thursday with super bowl preview we're gonna go deep on some stuff That this week? Who's in it? No, I know. I don't know. It's supposed to be the bills and the lions, Brett. We got Rob. The year of Destiny was Rob. Must be next year, actually.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, but we're going to deep dive. We'll go X's and O's, of course, but we're also going to get heavy into some prop bets, do some fun stuff centered around the Super Bowl. All right, folks, remember no matter what develops, we will always be your first read. Thank you for listening. We are out.