Fantasy Football Daily - Super Bowl Champs and Chumps + Early AFC and NFC Contenders | NFL First Read

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down "Super Bowl Champs And Chumps + Early AFC and NFC Contenders." Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Intro - 00:00 Brett and Joe’s Super Bowl Stories - 01:06 Joe’s Champ: Howie Roseman - 04:39 Brett’s Champ: Jalen Hurts - 10:09 Joe’s Chump: DeAndre Hopkins - 11:47 Brett’s Chump: Brett Veach - 13:43 What’s next for the Eagles? - 19:20 What’s next for the Chiefs? - 28:00 Super Bowl LX Contender Predictions - 36:35 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The film and analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of Locked on and myself, Brett Whitefield, the CEO of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. Let's get after it. Okay, Super Bowl 59 in the books. The Philadelphia Eagles are champions. They've done it, Joe. They've slayed the dragon.

The dragon has been. been slayed. And I think this Super Bowl is a little different than the last one the Chiefs lost, where I think, and we'll get into this, obviously, but I think maybe there's a little less hope for a quick bounce back for me for the Chiefs. And so I think that's why I'm saying the Dragon has been slayed. But we'll see, we'll see. I'm curious on your thoughts on that. And I want to get into all the fun stuff. We're going to do champs and chumps. We're going to do where do the Eagles and Chiefs go from here. We're going to do an early look at the 26 contenders. But before all of that, Joe, I would really love to hear about your Super Bowl experience from yesterday.

Oh, well, Brett, good to be with you. Congratulations, Philadelphia Eagles. I think they're a great champion. And hopefully throughout this conversation, that'll become clear to everyone. My Super Bowl experience is great, man. I smoked some chicken wings. I watched the game with a commanders fan.

So Buddy from the gym came over. We watched it because everyone else that I knew was not watching the game. but I had a good time watching it, man. And I went into it very much like, I wouldn't say rooting for Kansas City, but I was at terms with them winning because I thought it would be a good coping mechanism for the bill's failures to get past them.

Yeah. Like, whatever. They won three Super Bowls in a row. Like, nobody got past them. Well, then I watch a game. and little did I know that was therapeutic, that was healing. It was beautiful. It was not just to see them lose, you know, like, not just like, oh, man, it was Seattle,

New England. What the heck is that guy's name, Malcolm something? What's his name? The guy that picked off the pass. Why can I remember this? Malcolm Butler picking off the pass and it's like, boom, on a dime. The result's different. It's like, no, dude, you saw it's early in the game and then just drive after drive.

You're like, I don't think they can move the ball. I don't think they have a chance. Get to 24 to nothing at halftime. I had a loser mentality watching this game. I'm like, okay, all right. That worst, let's make it, let's make it 17 to nothing going into halftime. And it's like, nope, they get to stop. They get another score.

Like, and it kept pouring on. Like, this was like, basically a 40 to six game. They got some garbage points there at the end. but like I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Chiefs get their butts with. Absolutely enjoyed it. Yeah, that was fun. I ended up going to my dad's Joe. So fun story.

I told you I normally have my dad to my house. Well, my dad just decided not to include me in on his plans and just throw a little party at his house. And I said I don't do parties. Yeah. But I found out my stepbrother Jason was cooking most of the food and he's a chef. Oh. And so I would gladly go partake. And I had some of the best wings I've ever had in my life.

There were some, you know, fun fingered style foods, ribs, casos and quacks. And, dude, it was great. But, you know, it's fun. It wasn't too big of a party, but I watched the first half there. And then I have kids, so they had to go home and get into bed. So took them home, got him in bed, and then watched the second half from my couch. But it was, it was very enjoyable to watch the chiefs get their teeth kicked in, man.

I'm not going to lie. Really felt good about it. So I was a big, you know, the last time they played each other, I was a huge Eagles guy. Routing hard for the Eagles. I loved J.Len Hertz, loved A.J. Brown, Darius Slay, like a lot of the guys on the team. Shane Stike and I liked at the time as well, excuse me. But yeah, this time I was a little more like you, a little unsure until, you know, right up a few days before.

I was like, you know what, I'm going hard Eagles on this. Yeah, it's, well, I guess we got in a roundabout way, our desired result for the game. Hopefully we're watching different teams next year. But, yeah, man, and I think, obviously we're going to talk, we're going to talk about like where these teams go from here. We might talk a little bit about, you know, what this 2026 Super Bowl picture looks like. But I just, I come away really, really impressed with Philadelphia. And obviously they, they boom out in the Super Bowl. But when you start to really unpack it and realize all, you're all of the correct things that have happened in building this roster and building this coaching

staff and like the pivots that they've been able to make along the way and getting things right is just remarkable. It's, I mean, they're, they're a very, very, very deserving Super Bowl champion. And so I guess as we get into champs and chumps, let's start with, I think the obvious champ is Howie Roseman. All of the above approach to went to creating this roster. big time trades, right, AJ Brown, trading, doing draft trades that stockpile future assets that position them to get players, they have no business being able to get, being able to

draft Queenie on Mitchell and Cooper DeGine and Jalen Carter and Devontas Smith and Landon Dickerson and Milton Williams and Josh Wedd and Jalen Hertz in the second round and, you know, Jordan Myelotta in the seventh round, just hit after hit after hit after hit. and then the redemption stories, the Zach Bonds, the Landon Dickerson's. It's like just positive after positive after positive, not just like you got a single or a double. We're talking triples and home runs stacking them to be able to get to this point, man. I'm just so impressed with what Rahui Roseman is able to build and how it showed up and how it led to this moment. Yeah, Harvey Roseman obviously deserves a ton of credit.

Best GM in football, not close. It's not close. How about Mackay Beckton, too, Joe? Reclamation project there comes. I know he left the game early last night, but he was a big part of their story this year. Yeah. Stud at right guard was a stud for them all year.

The average size of the O line was, they list on the broad. I kid, this can't be true. Six, seven, three, 38. Yeah. it's like 100 pounds more than the first Super Bowl's offensive line. It's like 238 pounds. Like these guys are linebackers now. The offensive linemen in 1970 or whatever.

Here it was. Those guys are playing off ball backer now. It's wild. Here's a, I got another crazy one to throw at you that just shows you how he worked Rosen's brilliance. 63.6 million dollars going to dead cap. Yeah. He still put that roster on the field.

Guys, an absolute savant. some of that dead cap is obviously very strategic. They, they kicked the can down the road quite a bit with voided contract or void years and contracts. And it might catch up to him eventually. I kind of at the point where I just think how he will figure it out. Right. But also who cares if it does. Right.

Right. You've already got a Super Bowl to show for it. Like, 101. Yeah. Nothing matters now. Yeah. Go ahead.

Yeah. In 2029, when all the void years hit on Jalen Hertz, is anybody going to care? Right. But I think you've seen a lot of teams that are. are like very high in dead cap. Accumulation, have very good seasons. Denver's up there, Buffalo's up there, Tampa's up there, Green Bay's up there.

Denver's up on one player, right? Sure, but it's still dead cap, right? And I remember having conversations with people, uh, and that are like high ranking people in, in organizations right now. And they, they always say, it's not about the player, the contracts that you give out. It's a dead cap, right? You can't, you can't just have dead cap.

Boy, it's, it's, it's not really working out to be true. And I think what it comes down to as the salary cap continues to go up, it's about knowing that a dollar today is is worth way less than a dollar later. So get yourself out of these bad deals as quickly as possible because this cap keeps going up and your money's going to be able to go further down the line. Go ahead and bite the bullet now. I think you said that backwards. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

Well, because the cap keeps going up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, you look at a dead cap table and it's a mixed bag. I'm not going to say that's the formula necessarily. No, it's not the form. Look at the bottom three teams, the Colts, Falcons, and Bengals. Congratulations on having no dead cap and finishing eight and nine.

Casey was the fourth from the bottom. But, you know, Casey, Baltimore, San Francisco, Pittsburgh. Those are all good teams too at the top. Rams, Detroit, you know, those are all, those are your top 12 teams right there and no dead cap. But it's not the end all be all. That's a point. And if you get a good GM who's. smart. Honestly, it probably comes down to how well you draft. If you can draft and have

a volume of players on rookie contracts, that cat probably doesn't matter at all. And you look at, oh, well, what do the Philadelphia Eagles do better than anyone? Draft. They also pay. They're paying a quarterback. They're playing three offensive linemen, two receivers, a tight end, a running back. Yeah. Josh Wett's not a cheap player. I mean, they, their defense is certainly cheaper, but they have some huge ticket players. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, that's a good call. So what about, you're ready to move on from Howie? Well, I think he's the rightful person to invoke here.

For sure. There's another one, though. All right. Your lead champ is? Jalen Hertz. He's forever will be called the Kingslayer to me. I don't know what it is with this dude in Super Bowls, man. But plays his best football in the Super Bowl. Right. Which is an important thing. So I can't say enough. I know we've been very up and down and critical of Jalen.

You know, I think we both view him as a top 10 quarterback, but it's like, you know, we've made some harsh statements about him. But man, when it mattered, he got it done, dude. And, you know, he balled out. Wasn't quite as good as the first Super Bowl against the Chiefs, but it was still pretty good, you know, other than that one interception, which is kind of an arm punt, you know, he played near flawless ball, man. He was awesome.

Yeah, there's no, I mean, he deserves a ton of credit for this. And I don't, I don't think anything that we've said about him in the past is not true. Like it was true. He showed up on this stage and absolutely delivered. And I mean, that's two big time performances in the postseason against Kansas City. And, yeah, he deserves a lot of credit. And I mean, even just how this entire offense was able to get through that 20, 23 season. like it's hard to reconcile just how that team fell apart.

And then you lose big time leaders like a Kelsey, like a Fletcher Cox. And it's like, oh, well, you guys can pick it up and go, right? I think I think I'm really impressed with Jalen Hertz impact on all of that. Yeah. To be able to be the leader of this football team and get them to this moment. And Super Bowl champion, Jalen Hertz, man. You love to see it.

Trump's. I got a couple here. maybe three, but let's just try to focus in on one. You got one? Chumps? Yeah, I'll start with DeAndre Hopkins. I thought that was a game-changing drop. Dude, is wide open.

And I'm not sure that there would have been like a ton of, dude, the offense, the offense wasn't going to move, right? It wasn't going to move. But that felt like that drop was like, oh, boy, that was like your moment to get a big conversion there, potentially a chunk gain, see what happens. and I thought that was like the moment to me where the wind just completely fell out of the sail. Talking end of the first half, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Probably would have went for 50 yards. 50 plus. Yeah, a huge drop for sure. Might not have mattered in the end still, but you're right. Like, if they had a shot, that was it, right? That was the shot to get back in.

So, yeah, I didn't have Hopkins down. I think there's a discussion. he had about Brett Veach. Boy. I'd, Howard Roseman. Boy, yeah. I can't wait to go in on that.

Yeah, well, let's do it. I mean, it's weird when guys like you and, I mean, we know ball, right, Joe? I'm not going to say we don't know ball, but like, starting in June of last year, working all the way through preseason, all the way to the early part of the year, to our Thanksgiving wish list or our gratitude list, to our Christmas wish list.

We knew exactly what the chiefs were good at and what they weren't. Somehow the chiefs didn't know that. And Brett Veach didn't know that. And it's just crazy to me that there was never a significant effort to cover up some of these deficiencies. Yeah, Brett, let's go to a quick break. On the other side of it, I want to go in on Brett Beach. Stick with us. Brett, I'm glad you brought this up.

Because Brett Veach is a good general manager. But there are some massive flaws on this roster that contributed to them getting smoked last night. And I'll start by saying this. Didn't it kind of feel like a little bit like you were watching at Tampa Super Bowl? Oh, yeah. Where the offensive tackles were just completely exposed. This has been going on for years, man. Years. Miss calculations. Juan Ye Morris, Kingsley, Sue, my, Tia. Not getting it done after it cost you that Super Bowl. And John Taylor, like, you got a bad contract there. You're kind of stuck. Your steps to improve the tackle situation have been very poor. And I'll say that extends to putting Joe Tuny out there.

Now, no team was able to really expose it. But if you watched the tape, you knew that Tooney was shaking. And you got worse at two spots to stay bad at one. Putting Caliando in their left guard. Like great story, miscalculation, in my opinion, in terms of how they manage that. But it goes to pass rush and it goes to corner. Offensive tackle pass rush corner. Those are critical positions in football.

and those miscalculations by Brett Veach got exposed last night. How about wide receiver too, Joe? We can't get Mahomes dudes. I mean, you're going to do the band-aid approach in Hollywood Brown. You draft worthy in the first round, but like, Worthy was overdrafted. They may have been Amy Reid's call, by the way. I don't know because he tends to be the guy who overdrafts wide receivers.

It was missed all over. Let's don't let's like, I don't want to gloss over the Joanne Taylor contract. That thing is a monstrosity. That's a crime against humanity. And they are stuck, Joe. There is nothing they can do. I don't even think they can restructure it and get a lot of relief because of the way that things already structured. 27 million dollar cap hit next year. Dude, dirt. I mean, this is kind of what I was saying where I felt like the last time they lost to Super Bowl, there was hope that they'd get it right. They had some cap space. They were immediately able to make some moves. This time, it just doesn't feel like that. I mean, they have Mahomes, obviously,

but it doesn't feel like that that real clear, not a lot of resources to go going on. They have contracts that can't get out from under. It's a tough situation, man. And Brett Veach is the guy behind it. Yeah. Andy Reid and Pat Mahomes and Chris Jones are always going to be a great, you know, set of pillars, Steve Spagnola. But they have. They have to pull a lot of weight, man, because they, they respectfully just haven't quite had the same level of hits. I mean, Big Duffy's a nice player. Obviously, Carl Laptis is a nice player, but there hasn't been the same level of what Holly Roseman's been able to do. And this is, I mean, there's other GMs that this applies to.

I'd apply a lot of this criticism to Brandon Bean. You know, like, yeah, you, you, you have not truly capitalize on your opportunities. once you got to this top tier of team, that's dead what Philly did and they're the Super Bowl champion. So, I mean, obviously this is a Chief Seagull's conversation, but yeah, I mean, I think those, that next set of moves to really

affirm what this team is historically and like, really have that staying power at the top. I mean, there's been a lot of missteps along the way. Yeah, and before this gets too far off the rails, I am aware that, you know, the chiefs have won three Super Bowls and right you know the last six years yeah in the last six years they just played them what their fourth in a row no they're third in a row sorry sorry third in row yeah whoa no five in the last six years though so fun all right uh any more chum i mean we could chump mohomes he did not play

good he was seeing ghosts the turnovers were obviously bad the bad variety of turnovers too not just bad luck. But most of the problems started and ended with that offensive line. Right. And you know what? He didn't have dudes either. There's no dudes on that offense anymore. Hopkins is not like he's fine.

He's fine if he's your two or three. But dude, we're, I mean, there's no dudes. Yeah, Kelsey's not. There's no, yeah, there's no guys winning routes out there. Like it's Hollywood Brown's not it. We know what worthy is. Gadget player.

I mean, he caught two deep balls at the end in garbage time, but that's not, he hasn't done that all season, Joe. Well, does that change when Rashi Rice is back? I mean, is Rashi Rice Xavier Worthy, Kelsey slash Noah Gray and whatever they do at running back? I mean, this is good. We're happy with this. I really like Rashi and what he does,

but he's still just, he's similar to Worthing that he's a short part of the field player. He's going to beat zone. You're going to, you know, scheme him up for yak opportunities. And that's where he's going to thrive. They don't have, like, you're going to see man or match coverage. They don't have a guy who can just go win. They need that guy. They don't have a way to get that guy, though, is the problem.

And they're potentially even bigger questions with Tray Smith being a free agent, still needing tackle help, still need an upgrades, a division that saw two other teams go to the postseason. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe, just maybe. Yeah. Okay, so we definitely want to, I mean, champs, chumps.

I think we got to a lot of good stuff there, but we want to start to focus in on like what's next for these teams. And where do you want to start? You want to start with the Eagles or the Chiefs? Let's, let's do Eagles. Yeah, I see a team that is probably good. They got it done when they did. I'm not saying they'll be bad.

That roster is still stacked, but they have some huge decisions to make. I think they only have 22 million in caps base. They need about seven or eight for their draft class. So we're looking at before restructures and cuts, 15 million in cap space. And you've got to make a decision on Zach Bonn, who's going to get paid. Milton Williams, who's going to get paid? Mackay Beckton, who might not get paid, but he's going to make more than what,

1.5 million or whatever he was making this year. He'll probably get 10 plus. Josh Sweat's a free agent. Brandon Graham's a free agent. Now he's probably retiring. I think that's the word on the street there. But, I mean, they have some hard decisions to make here. I just don't know that they can retain all of or even a couple of those guys.

Right. And I mean, even like a Darius slay, is he, is he going to retire? You know, he's, is he like 34? Yeah, there was a rumor circulating early in the week that this would be it for him. But we'll see. It'd be a heck of a way to go out, you know. So not only you have some player retention stuff, but, you know, potentially replacing a guy like that who retires. I mean, Bryce Huff was a healthy and out.

active for the game, right? So is Josh, what do you say well? We have Nolan Smith. We have Bryce Huff. Can you pay Josh Wett again? I mean, I think they have to. If you look at like maximum retention, like Josh Sweat cost them $16 million next year, no matter what, because of the dead cap, the way the void years hit. Might as well keep pushing that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the only way to, I mean, you're going to pay him 16 anyways, no matter what happens. So if you at least you you resign them slash extend them or whatever. You can, I think, I'm pretty sure you're allowed to then start moving that money around again. So, you know, that's an option.

You know, maybe that helps you get two of the four of that list. But what about like they, they obviously have got a bunch of players that they've drafted. You know, I think that there's, there's going to be continuing ascending young players, right? Like Juergens, this is his first year as a starter. I anticipate he would take. a step next year. You know, what about Nicobie Dean, if he comes back and healthy, he's still an ascending young player.

Mitchell and Cooper, Dejean, the two young DBs, like, they're rookies. They're certainly not at their ceiling. I think a lot of their continued staying power comes from those guys, you know, continuing to develop. Yeah, O line will be intact. But about going back to Cam, though, he just finished his third year of a four-year deal, Joe. do you think he's coming back to camp without a new contract? He feels like he deserves it.

Yeah. Heck yeah, he feels like he deserves it. I know he's only been a starter for one year, but, well, kind of too, right? Did he start at Guard Kelsey's last year? Yeah. Yeah. Goddard's got up pending a contract situation. There's questions all over the place, but you're right.

I mean, they've draft guys well, obviously. Where's Tyler Steen fit in the mix? He's very, very upgraded. to me. I think you'd like to have him as your depth, as your swing interior guy. Yeah. If you got to save money, though, you can't say you can't bring back back, then what do you just do you draft another guard? Yeah, I, you know, I think that's a position where they can probably figure it out. When coach Southlands unbelievable, they're going to be playing between Jurgens and, Lane or Jurgens and Milata, you know, I, I think that's a where if you want to make a salary concession,

it's probably at guard. Yeah. Where I think, I mean, even this draft class, I think it's got some really appealing players in that 30 to 90 range. You're not lying. Which is going to be exactly where the Eagles are picking 32, 64, 96.

I think they'll be able to, they could probably draft the starting guard. They got an extra one in there too somewhere. 32, 64, 96, 129. They have the Lions. They have the Lions fourth round pick, but they probably, they probably traded their own fourth round pick. Yeah.

At some point. So that just replenishes. Yeah. Interesting stuff, man. Their off season will be fascinating to watch. We just saw him pull it off with 63 million in dead cap. So I got faith how he can figure this out. But I mean, I think he's gotten three different teams to the Super Bowl. Yeah. Like his ability to transition and pivot is is just exceptional.

And the fact that you have this on your resume, like, if the Eagles state, I don't think they will, but if they take a step back next year and go nine and eight, like, who cares? Right. Well, I'm sure the players will care. Right. But I mean, in the grand scheme of things, like, you'll be chewing on the Super Bowl win for a while.

Yeah, give you time. It certainly makes, makes the decisions coming out of it a lot easier, right? Like, absolutely. It takes a lot of that pressure off. And I'm sure a lot of these players, would love to return, you know? I think that's one of the things that I really enjoy about Philly is I think

whatever you think about Nick Siriani in terms of just embracing the community and the identity of that fan base, it's like an organizational, it's like perfect in some ways. And I think that this is a place where it seems like a close-knit group. It seems like they love each other. It feels like guys are going to want to stick around.

agree so that's probably helpful in this you know helpful air of this entire conversation like if you're zach ball and you don't want to go anywhere else right clearly i mean you obviously play your best foot that you were he's a good player coming out of wisconsin yeah and then he goes to the saints and his saints defensive coaching's been good but they really couldn't figure out what to do with them so now he go either they've done that to a guy like that position specifically right yeah right with the kid they went to Atlanta right right right, Cade Nellis. Yeah, Cade Nellis, Pete Warner even, to an extent, you know.

Well, maybe, maybe Callumor and Company will get that figured out. But yeah, it's a great example. Zach Bond finished pretty high in the defensive player of the year voting. Third, right? This is, yeah, it's a big time impact defensive player. Where are you going to go, man? It's hit what, where his contract lands is fascinating. one hit wonder, but that one hit was insane.

And Philly's pretty reluctant to paybackers, right? True. True. So it could, yeah, I mean, go go get the bag or it's probably, there's probably a take it or leave a deal that Philly will offer them. Yeah. Like this is here for you. You can come and continue to do the things you've done here. Or you can, you know, maybe even double what we're going to offer you APY,

but you got to go hope that Team X can figure out how. to play you. So he's already 28 years old, too. Yeah. It's complicated. He was a little bit older coming in as a prospect. Yeah, that's so complicated. Super complicated. He just, he just won it. I would say go get the bag, bro. Whoever, whoever makes the best offer, just go take it. Well, then, then you, you know how that goes. You know how that goes. Next thing you know, you're a Jacksonville Jaguar, you know, you're a Tennessee Titan, you know. These are, these are Exactly that, right? Germain Emmons, there it is, 18 million per.

Have you enjoyed your time in Chicago? Has it been great? Don't think so. I don't think so. They signed the last Eagles linebacker that hit for agency, too. T.J. Edwards, right? Yeah. How's it going?

You enjoying that? Not great. Right. So that's the reality of exactly what we're talking about. Woo. All right. Fun times. We should talk about where the chiefs go from here.

we'll do that here on the other side of it. Folks, be sure to stick with us. How about those Chiefs? Man, they're good. I, I, listen, I, I don't have room to talk smack, man. This is the team that bounce my team multiple years in a row. So I'm having my moment, but like, understand it's all hollow in my heart. If you're a Chiefs fan listening to this, I'm jealous of what you have. All right. That's what it comes down to for sure. But I am going to be, we've been critical.

And again, there's that layer of. three Super Bowls in the last six years or whatever it's been. Like that's, that's a huge layer to invoke when talking about Kansas City. But they got stuff to figure out too, man. Oh, dude. So financial rundown, 11 mil in cap space before cuts, restructures. Five mil probably needed for their draft class.

So they don't have a lot of functional cap space here, show. Right. Especially when you consider teams like to carry four to five million. into the off-season program for, you know, to handle injuries, move salaries around, whatever they got to do. They're in a really tight spot. And they have pending free agency with Hopkins, Hollywood Brown, Justin Reed, Nick Bolton, Charles A Menahue,

Wharton, Derek Nottie, basically three key players. Trace Smith. Sorry, I buried the lead on that one. I think my brain shut it off because we already mentioned that. So yeah, he's their top free agent available. Obviously, they're going to lose a lot of players. Probably Bolton and Smith both leave. I don't know.

I went through the roster. I don't know where they even find restructures and cuts, Joe. To like, they can make some room for sure to be operational football team. I don't know where they find cuts and restructures to get Bolton and Trace Smith under contract and retain Justin Reed or Charles. Like, it's going to be tough. It's a tough off. I mean, when you've won three of the last six, doesn't really matter. or like it's all gravy, baby.

We're just, you know, we're doing our thing. But man, it's going to be a tough off season for them. I mean, they certainly have restructure potential, right? That there's a choice that comes with that. What are you seeing that I'm not? So if you go to over the cap and you go to their simple restructure possibility, they can get to $82 million or $83 million in cap space. But that's if you pulled every lever.

And you don't want to pull every lever. That's not what you want to do. So they're going to have it. they can do something. But like we just mentioned all those expiring contracts that are key starters. Not to mention like we didn't have, we weren't good enough at left tackle. We weren't good enough at pass rush.

We weren't good enough at corner. So there's a lot of, there's a lot to figure out. Now, again, Spags, Reed, Mahomes, Chris Jones, those guys will be around. But filling in the gaps feels is uphill of a battle as it's felt like in a while. in Kansas City. Meanwhile, you did have two other playoff teams in that division. Yeah. Dude,

this is like you can't, like I'm looking at Juan Taylor's deal. They can restructure and save seven million, but then you're kicking the can down an already bad contract. I don't know, man. This is tough. Joe Duni, as much as we love him, 33 years old, making 27 million bucks. It's a cut candidate. He's a cut candidate. Yeah, that's crazy to say, right? I mean, that's, you got to make these hard decisions, right? Like, that's, that's the reality of where they're at.

They save 17 mil if they cut him. You kind of have to do it, right? Or maybe a reworked deal, right? Because if SUNY was on the open market right now, how much would he make, do you think? What did Zitler get? It'd be the same deal. 12, uh, 8 million plus incentives. Something like that. Yeah. Okay. So they very much probably looking at a rework deal then. Well, you'd hate to replace Tuny and Smith in the same season when you still don't have a left tackle. Absolutely. They've already obviously paid Creed, which nobody's going to blink an eye at that. Yeah. His deal doesn't really even kick in for another year, right?

He's like 10 million next year, which is dirt cheap for. Yeah. Well, I mean, the good news for Kansas City is like a lot of their core nucleus is going to be in place. And they have done a good job, I think, at times in making succession plans. But, you know, like we've seen them also get ahead of stuff. They trade away T. Tyree Kill. they trade away,

um, legurious need. We've seen them without hesitation move on from a Chavarius ward. Like they've never been overly concerned about transitions, but it feels, it just feels limited. And that's not even through my bills glasses. I think that's objectively true.

Yeah. Something else that stood out about this specifically to, to yesterday the Super Bowl is I think this, this kind of paints a good picture where that roster's at. we've like the chiefs objectively weren't awesome this season the entire year but they had like that boogie man feel where it's like oh well the playoffs will come they'll turn it on and boom but they didn't hit that point yesterday they never were able to turn it on and in fact they didn't really turn it on at all in the playoffs they barely squeaked went out against buffalo um i thought really what we saw

from them the playoffs is more of the same from what we saw all regular season just barely squeaking by teams. And so, but I think that's a good, I mean, it shows you where this roster is at. Like, Mahomes can cover a multitude of sin. But dude, like, it gets the best of the best. I think that that's tough, man. So I, I think it was good for me to see them not have the boogeyman feel where it's like, hey, they are, they are killable. This is crazy. So. Yeah. And don't you, so this is probably a credit to you and, and you being willing to cling to this throughout the course of the season, but like, I do believe that in elimination games, your biggest issues get exposed. And I think that happened last night.

But this is in a lot of ways exactly who Kansas City's been offensively all year long. They just have not been good enough. They're middle of the pack in terms of scoring. And they had their annual look like a world beater again against the bills in the playoffs. But they weren't good against Houston on offense. They're like 12 yards, man. Like this was not a good enough offense this year. and I thought it was emblematic of exactly the issues that showed up throughout the course of the season.

And maybe there isn't this magical moment for the Chiefs that, you know, they just get to the postseason and then they play their real football. Like I think this was, this is obviously an example of how that caught up to them. They never figured it out. They weren't holding anything. They just weren't good enough on offense. Yeah. So what do you think their outlook is, Joe?

do you think they're back here next year? No, I don't think they are. I think there's too many, there's too many things that they got to figure out. And I don't, there's a law of averages. There's no way they're going to continue that same level of like one score game success. Yeah, it'll balance out a little. I don't think there'll be a bad football team. But they might be an 11 win football team as opposed to a 14 or 15 win football team.

That's kind of where I'm at. We're going to talk 26 contenders, but. you know, are the chiefs of contender next year? Yes or no. Oh, of course they are. I think so. Okay. I'm going to say no.

Woo. Okay. That's a nice tease on the other side of it. Shall we talk? Super Bowl 2026 outlook? Is that Super Bowl 60, right? Super Bowl 60 outlook on the other side of it. Folks, be sure to stick with us.

Brad, I need to know. Are you good at Roman numerals? Like, do you know them? I have to really think hard. Like, I can figure it out. I have to really think, though. Okay, yeah. I never, I never have a clue about the Roman.

I wish that we would just move to just put the number. Like, I don't need the Roman numeral. What's crazy is I didn't realize it was Super Bowl 59. I feels like yesterday I was watching Super Bowl 40. I guess that was 18 years ago or whatever. Or 19 years ago. That's crazy to me. So Super Bowl 60, it's going to be played in San Francisco.

go Levi Stadium. Obviously, the bills and the lions are going to be playing against each other. But other than that, let's talk contenders here. You said to close the last segment that you didn't think that the Kansas City Chiefs were a contender. Is it everything we just talked about and your lack of confidence that they can figure it out or like? I wasn't, dude, I wasn't confident in them at all this year.

And that's what that's what I mean when I say the dragon got slayed. this is what I'm talking about. That, that to me, that is, and I'm not doing this off of a one game sample. I've been observing this team closely for a long time. I saw signs at the end of 24. They still got it done and then it got worse this year. They don't have a pathway to getting better, Joe.

And they weren't a good football team this year, good in the context of winning a Super Bowl. They weren't a good football team this year. And they have no pathway to get better. Who on their, like, they don't have a developmental guy. Like you look at the Eagles, you're like, yeah, they've drafted dudes. J. Link's Hunt might be a good player next year.

You know, Quinnion's going to get even better. Cooper does you, you look at the Chiefs roster and you're like, no, all their guys are old. Okay. So I'll, I'll bite. I'll have that conversation with you. Okay. So we need a left tackle. Okay.

Kingsley, Sue, Amelia Tia, for whatever you think about him, he was a high draft pick. Second round pick. Okay. Like, they invested. that in hopes that he'd be a starter, right? Like, same with what's not. Right. It's not a guarantee, but like that is a player that exists.

We're concerned about pass rush. Again, I'm not high on Felix and Duket Eusoma, but he was their 20, 23 first round pick. Like he needs to be a thing. Wasn't a thing at all this year. I'm concerned about it. George Carl off this, not a thing. He's a good effort pass rusher for that scheme, right?

Like, we, no, no, no, no. don't win with good effort. That's what you, like your third or fourth guy can be a good effort pass rusher. Bro, that's their guy. Mike Dana. We're still doing Mike Dana? He's a nice piece. Yeah, but he's not a leading, I get it. He's not a leading player. These are, these are, these are Robbins. They need Batman's. I get it. Yeah. They're not even Robbins. They're like, well, what's the next thing. I didn't have who's bad, who's Robbins buddy. I don't know who that is, you know, commissioner, they're like commissioner Gordon's, you know, we need a. We need some robins and some badmats.

But they're still going to try to get better, right? I can try. What is the pathway to them getting better? I see a pathway to them getting worse. And that's like they'll have the one score regression thing happen. So they'll get worse just by default of that kicking in. But the roster will not be as good as it was this year. All right.

So you're, when you say they're not a contender, like you don't, this is not a playoff team. Like they're not winning the West. I don't know that they'll win the West. They'll get in the playoffs. How do you define a Super Bowl contender? I think that's where we have to go back to. A guy, a team that I feel strongly has a chance to win a Super Bowl.

Like there's a 4 or 5, maybe six of these teams every year. Okay. And for me, it's like I would define a Super Bowl contender as a team that if they won the Super Bowl, it wouldn't surprise me. Yeah. So after the Chiefs have won three of the last six Super Bowls, it wouldn't surprise you if they won it next year. it would surprise that'd be a surprise to you that would be surprising to me yeah okay we i am totally fine disagreeing with you on this okay who else who else in the afc the ravens ravens for sure in the bills i'm gonna throw some other teams out there just like just houston not a super bowl contender

to you i would be very surprised if they won zero defense is looking good get another receiver cj stroud takes a step figure out the offensive line nope They think their frauds are in a bad division and they're going to get balanced whenever they face. They're frauds. Admittedly, I don't like the where C.J. Strata's at as a player right now, I don't think has the stuff to get it done. Now he now again, going back to the development thing, he obviously has a chance to develop. I guess I can make that call early next year. I also admittedly haven't done a deep dive into where their roster's at.

I'm not familiar with their, you know, pending contracts or their cap space scenario, yada, yada, yada. I think there's a metric out there that says that a team with a first year coordinator has never won a Super Bowl. And that would not be good for Houston because they got a first year offense coordinator. They have $2 million in Katzbys. Okay. Two million. So not, no. So I'm sitting with.

Yeah, it's a strong thing anyways, regardless of Katzbrace. I'm sticking with no. Cincinnati. Ooh. Because the Browns still own that team, I'll say that would be surprising if they won't. Well, they hadn't been in the playoffs in two years in a row. Correct. I mean, I think the world of Burrow, but I, yeah, I don't know if they're going to be able to fill in the gaps around him.

But Burroughs good. The Chargers, no, we're not there. Don't think so. Denver? I don't think we're there yet. Denver probably has the best pathway to build around a good foundational. year. Agreed. But they got a lot, they got a lot to figure out. They needed to. If they bring it like a T. Higgins and then, you know, we're cooking with gas

with Bo Nix. Then maybe I'll change my tune. I've got to wait and see though. Figure out the run game. They got to have to. Oh, for sure. Omari and Hampton, first round, baby. Let's go. Both sides of that. They're going to have to figure out to stop the run, too. Sure. Right. I think they were just opportunistic. Okay. So you, Buffalo. Yes. and Buffalo just needs The Buffalo is not really facing what I would describe as a daunting offseason

their expiring contracts are like Rasul Douglas and Amari Cooper that's not, you let those guys walk they're north of 30 and regressed and they got a little bit of cap space like I think they're in position to do some stuff as a team that was right there obviously barely lost the championship game

they're not facing what Kansas City is facing this offseason or even close to it Correct. They did the reset last year, this year, the one that just happened. Yep. And now they're in a, they're in a build, they're back to building mode. Exactly. Where I think Kansas City has a bit of a reset that's going to have to happen.

Maybe they can rally. So you think that only the Bills and Ravens are contenders in the AFC. That's it. I'm inclined to say that, yeah. As of today, it's February. It's early. It's early look. I haven't seen any offseason anything early look because it hasn't happened.

I mean, okay. So that's, that's it, huh? I think that's it. I'm looking here. Chargers do have a crap ton of Cap's face. But Justin Herbert. Yeah. Coach Kill. But we don't apply that to Lamar.

We don't apply that. Lamar's objectively bad in his elimination games. We're there for sure. Herbert's objectively bad in all sorts of games that matter, though, not just elimination games. So Baltimore's in a top spot too, dude. Dang. They're, yeah, but they, they, um, I feel like Baltimore's just always got guys waiting in the wings.

And their, their core is going to be back. What, what big free agents are they looking at? I don't even, I don't think they have any. I'm looking at it right now. Ronnie Stanley, Brandon Stevens, they're probably happy about that. Patrick McCarrey. That's it.

Yeah, yeah, they're fine. There's nothing else of consequence. Adarius Washington's a restricted free agent. Marcus Williams, they've already benched him. Deonti Johnson, well, whatever situation that is. Patrick Ricards, their next biggest one. They're running it back. Yeah.

You didn't bring up the Steelers. We out because of QV situation. Oh, God. Yeah. They're going to get Aaron Rogers. Does that change something for you? change a little bit. I'd like, I prefer Rogers over Russ for sure.

Of course, but. Yeah. You think Aaron, you think Aaron, okay, I'll ask you. Aaron Rogers to the Steelers makes them a contender for you. It's really close. Really close. That roster's good, Joe. They need, they need a dude at receiver too.

You solve those two things. I feel pretty good about it. I'm not there. I think, I think Rogers is too limited. Do you? Yeah. Okay. Too limited. Well, he's better than Mr. Unlimited, so.

Right. I agree. I agree. And that's, I agree. Okay, so I have it as Bill's Ravens Chiefs. You have it as Bill's Ravens. Yeah, that's, I guess it's fine. Now I'm, I'm feeling bad about the Chiefs being off my list just because I'm looking at it, the AFC going, maybe the AFC's not as good as we thought it was. They're supposed to be the scary conference, but, well, they still have those big time quarterbacks. do. That that's absolutely true. But I think you've, you've seen, I mean, since he's always going to be disappointing around Burrow because of how they run their, their operation. Yeah, I'll stick with it. I'll stay, I'll stay with Buffalo, the Ravens, and, uh, my dark horse will be Denver. All right. Doing dark

horses. But if a team were to surprise me, it would be Denver. What about the Jets? We got to talk about the hype train. all right the national football conference reigning Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles we've already talked all about them they're here right we're good they're sticking yep okay they have they have tough decisions to make for sure but they should be back in the in the mix talk to me about Detroit and this redone how many coaches they lose 400 does anybody left and see a gamble it only ended up being like three or four at the end of the day and they brought in some some really nice

compliments, I think, to replace those guys. So concerned about Aaron Glenn leaving, of course. I've stated that multiple times, more concerned about that than Ben. But they, you know, Calvin Shepherd was always the plan to replace Aaron Glenn. So that's cool. They brought in some, you know, Casey Rogers from the Tampa Bay box. He's going to be a big help to them. So, you know, all in all, I think Campbell knows what he's looking for in coaches.

and I think, you know, he'll have them, he'll have that staff, ready to go. They have a lot of caps, nice, Joe, 50 million plus before cuts and restructures. So we're adding to this thing. Yeah, we're adding. They'll be conservative still just because they do have

a lot of big contracts kicking in after that. They do have extensions with Kirby Joseph and Jemir pending and a missing one. Aiden? Aiden. I'm missing the one. Yeah. So they'll still be relatively,

I don't think you're not going to see them, you know, go sign up. You got T. Higgins or something. You know, they're not going to do something like that. But I think they'll bring it a nice player or two, probably on shorter term deals.

Maybe they get, I think they get in the mix of the Miles Garrett stuff or Max Crosby stuff. You know, are they going to be overly aggressive with that? Probably not, but they should. But yeah, yeah, roster's good. The core is by far, they're not losing anyone this year. No one that's of consequence.

And they have money to add. You know, they still have their top two picks intact. They'll get a third round pick from the Aaron Glenn thing. So yeah, they're good. And they're getting health. They're going to be healthy. Yeah, and healthy. Yeah. And healthy.

Yep. Okay, so I'm with you on those two teams. Tampa? I don't see it. I don't see them being a contender. It would like going back to your criteria, it would surprise me if they won the Super Bowl a lot, very much surprised me. They got they got a lot of defensive questions. Like at every level, they need a lot.

Yep. And the Godwin situation. I mean, obviously Mike Evans is aging, but like can you roll with McMillan Evans and somebody else as your top three? Offensive line looks good. I like Baker transition with the offensive coordinator. I think they're going to be a good team. I don't know if there'll be a great team. Tampa's lost almost more coaches than anyone. Yeah.

They've gotten plucked. Yeah, I agree with you. I think they'll be a good team still. They don't have a lot of salary cap movability here. Not a lot of liquidity in their assets. So that's not great. Rams? I'm tempted to say, yeah, they're a contender.

I think so. Yeah, I think they are. because like, yeah, I don't think that would surprise me if the Rams won next year. No, they're going to get more experienced. They'll be able to probably add a receiver, maybe at a corner. They need a left tackle. They'll be fine. Left side, a wide receiver too.

And they're going to cook. They're fine. Yeah, I think the Rams are going to be really, really good. Where is my standings? Vikings? Yeah, they're going to upgrade at quarterback and J.J. McCart. you. It's kind of a big deal. They'll be healthy too. Christian Darrasaw coming back. I think will be huge for them. They need some upgrade at guards or their two guard spots can be upgraded. Defenses, like they have talent at edge, man.

They got their three deep. Dallas Turner kind of came on a little bit down the stretch. They got Andrew Vankinkle and Jonathan Gernard. They need some cornerback help. Yeah, corners have to redo it a little bit. They get Flores back, though. Yeah, they retain Flores. they need some interior D-Line help too. They don't really have a dude right now. That's a good call. Yeah. But they're in the contender bucket? I think so.

I think so. This is the one I don't feel the best about so far. I think Lions, Eagles, Rams were easy yeses. Yeah. The Vikings are like a little bit. I mean, you're still talking about J.J. McCarthy in his first games, right? Yeah.

He can be Jaden Daniels. What a great situation to step into. Yeah, yeah. So I'm mostly there. That's what I'd say about this. Commanders got to be a yes, right? They just played the NSC championship game. Got smoked, but there still could be a lot of transition in Washington

because they had a lot of one-year players. A lot of one-year players, a lot of, I don't want to diminish what they did, but it was overachieving to an extent. I agree. I agree. We were amazed at what they were doing despite the roster all season. And so, I mean, maybe that catches up.

You know, they'll play a second play schedule next year. Maybe that affects them a little bit more. I don't know. I'm going to say that. No, but close. They're close. I'm inclined to agree with you. Because I do think that there's a talent issue here.

And I do think that they caught lightning at a bottle. Yeah. Green Bay. Daniels is a stud. So he's, he's done. Green Bay. Dude, the NFC is better than the AFC, isn't it? Well, yeah, but I also think the top teams aren't as dominant, maybe.

That's probably fair. So it opens the door for other teams. Green Bay, I'm going to say no, for the same reason we said no to the Chargers. Jordan Love, I don't think is good, good quarterback, not great quarterback, not good in big games. I think they're like a 10 or 11 win team. It's kind of who they are. Second or if the North is still cooking next year, maybe third place in the North, but they'll still win 10, 11 games. What about Atlanta?

No. Just too much to figure out on defense. Too much to figure out on defense. Offensively, like, they benched Cousins for Pennix. Penix was doing, making pretty much the same mistakes, you know, Cousins was. Ball location is this big issue for him. You know, I think he can be, he can develop. Sure, maybe this offseason is great for him. Maybe he works on that a little bit and gets better. I just, I'm not seeing it though. Seattle, San Francisco, Dallas. Seattle, no, Dallas, no, San Francisco, yes. So San Fran's back in the mix. I think so.

Right, the idea of big questions. Trent Williams, is he coming back? If not, they still need O-line help regardless of what he decides. I think the line help too. This is a, this team needs help in the trenches. Yeah. Trench help for sure. Now, they're playing for more.

This season was kind of a transitional year for them, too. I think they have a boatload of cap space this coming year. They have to make a decision up Purdy so that could eat up some of that. But I guess they actually don't have to make a decision this year, although I don't think Purdy plays under his current contract next year. Well, I think that's a good thing. Teams like the commanders, the Vikings, the 49ers, they're all going to be sitting at 50 million plus in cap space.

I mean, that's a good spot to be. You mentioned the Lions are looking pretty good. The Packers got 42 million. Yeah. The Rams got 38 million. I don't think it's a great free agency class, which hurts a little bit. Correct. It means guys like Milton Williams, if they do hit the market, are going to get paid.

Yeah, they're getting it. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Oh, so where do we, where do we land on the NFC? Contenders, Lions, Eagles, Rams, Vikings, Niners? Niners. I'm talking myself out of the Niners now. though, just because the Trent Williams piece,

they need so much help in the trenches. It's scary. Christian McCaffrey obviously also may be done. Like, I think he comes back and plays. I just don't know that he's the same guy ever again. So you said it should be like four to six teams, and I think that's kind of what we got to. Yeah.

All right. Guess we'll have to just play the 2026 season and see what happens. I guess so. Also, a lot of frequency and draft stuff to happen, trades, you know, there's going to be a lot of moving parts and we'll give you some more firm, you know, concepts here in the off season. So, all right, Joe, let's get out of here. We'll be back Thursday. And are we going to get into draft stuff finally? I dropped my first mark of the season. Oh, okay. Let's have some fun. Let's talk about the draft, man. All right. Sounds good.

See you guys Thursday. Remember folks, no matter what develops, we will always be your first read. Thanks for listening. We are out. Thank you.