Fantasy Football Daily - The Jets Need Help, Davante Adams is On the Way + Week 6 Review | NFL First Read

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down the Jets and the future of Davante Adams. Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Check out The Waiver Wire - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/the-waiver-wire-week-5#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Nothing else is Rees. First read. We are your first read, the film and analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the C.O of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. Let's get after it. Joe, we're heading into another week, another review, another week in which the Buffalo Bills played on Monday night football. So how are you feeling this morning, Joe. I'm feeling like I'm not sure if we're going to be able to start this podcast without there being a penalty flag.

And I'm nervous about everything because I'm not sure if it's going to count or not. I don't know if I actually stopped you or if I'm going to be gifted a penalty that's going to allow my drive to continue. So I'm uneasy, Brett Whitefield. Because that was hard to watch at times. But yes, the bills do win. their fourth primetime game in the first six weeks of the season. So I'm happy to not see another one of those until December.

And that's only the last one of the season. But yeah, it's, you know, it goes. We've been fortunate to do this podcast a few times after our respective teams play on, on prime time. So I'm coming in here, minimal sleep, but happy to be celebrating a victory Tuesday. Victory Tuesday. And I know, I know, you know, victories, wins are hard to come by in the NFL. It's a competitive league.

So anytime you get a win, it feels nice. But that game last night was ugly. If you're a fan of either team, right? I mean, that was not the most pleasurable. Sorry, viewing experience for sure. Well, it's good to win the game. And I think from the bill side of things, I thought you saw a lot of good offensively after two games

where they were just really bumbling. The efficiency in the passing game, wasn't there. They still ran the ball pretty well over the previous two games. The two, they lost the Texans and the Ravens, but the efficiency in the passing game felt like it was back, which is a good sign. And the Jets for whatever you think of them, defensively, metrically, they're very good. And they were able to get some production in the passing game. Josh Allen did the Josh Allen things and got outside of structure and made some plays. And then obviously being able to unleash Ray Davis, which I'm sure you're very excited to talk about.

Yeah. Was it 150 yards from scrimmage on 23 touches, something like that? I mean, a super productive game. And I thought this would be a good place for us to really start this conversation from the bills last night. James Cook's a good player. James Cook's not a physical player. And if you look at his metrics, and this has been going on,

you and I had an offseason conversation about this and you actually gave me a bunch of data and I think the data still supports this as well. James Cook just gets a lot of yards before contact and almost zero yards after contact like embarrassingly low amounts after contact. And it's like, I feel like this is a physical bill's offense with a finesse style running back. And I believe there's absolutely a place for James Cook to have a high volume of touches in this offense and be a meaningful piece. But the physicality that Ray Davis brought to this rushing offense in that game, I thought was significant. And I'm excited to see, did Ray Davis earn the trust to have a more significant role,

moving forward, complimenting James Cook? Ray Davis looked awesome. And I think my favorite thing about last night was he obviously has burst. He's got a little wiggle. But beyond that, he was talking with his pads, bro. Like, there were plenty of plays. like the Buffalo offensive line, especially in the early part of the game, was dominating the Jets defensive line. I think I texted you.

There's like four snaps in a row. Quinn and Williams got just absolutely destroyed. And so Ray Davis doesn't have to do a ton of work to get into the second level, but he was finishing runs, man. And that's what you want to see out of a running back. It's like, hey, when the O line's going to make it easy on you, go get those extra yards, make guys miss, drag them, you know, talk with your pads. And I love that about Ray. Then you saw the receiving chops too, Joe. like I love that he caught a bomb on scramble drill that just made me so happy.

I'm just like that. Yeah. And I thought he had, Josh had him earlier on the rail, but he had to bail to his right. So they get into scramble mode and he just launches it out there. And Ray missed time to jump. Right. Go get the ball. And but hey, he caught the ball down the field.

Just a big, a big game for him in terms of, I think, in solidifying his opportunities moving forward. And I really hope to see more of him with. moving forward. But like it's interesting because the bills have very much become a bell cow back team, which is very surprising to me. Last year, I mean, James Cook was one of the most heavily involved backs in the NFL in terms of total touches. And even in this game, when Ty Johnson's kind of been the number two, he has four touches in this game. Ray Davis is 23. You know what I mean? Like the bills are a team that feels like they want to let one guy get in there and lather up and

and kind of be the guy, but I, I hope that's not the case because I want to see a good mix of Davis and Cook moving forward. You'd hope what the performance Davis put out there in just a difference in style between him and Cook. You know, Ty Johnson's one thing. Like, he's the change of pace guy and he kind of had the same role last night even. Yeah. But man, letting, letting Davis and Cook split the work up would probably be good for for Cook in the long run too, right? Keep him healthy. Keep him fresh. Keep him explosive. Yeah, because he did wear down at the end of last season, kind of last couple of regular season games into the playoffs after kind of a breakout stretch, a big game against Dallas last year, things kind of tapered off.

And so, yeah, I think that's how you maximize Cook down the stretch as well. For a guy that's even going back to his time at Georgia was never a high volume ball carrier, always kind of a player that got his opportunities but wasn't like this heavily featured. I thought that wore him down a bit. So I think it's good all the way around if the bills can lean on on Ray Davis and needed that, needed that physicality last night in a big way. All right. I got a couple questions I want to ask you about the bills specifically because I do think they're one of the better teams in the league.

And no one knows the bill is better than you. You talked about the offensive efficiency coming back last night. And the thing that stuck out to me is there were no turnovers. They ran the ball well. they had the big chunk plays in the past game. Why did it only equate the 20 points? That's a good question. The bills only turned over the ball twice on offense this year.

It was two lost fumbles as well. Yeah, this is 1 million percent a game where I thought the bills would score a lot more points as the game moved on. And they took that 20 to 10 lead late into the second quarter. They got the ball first coming out of the third quarter. I thought the bills were going to run away with this ball game. then the hell Mary, I thought, changed the momentum of the game. But I thought it was three to three.

The second half of the game was three to three. Both teams scored three points. That was it in the second half. And for the bills, I think they had, I mean, obviously had a misfuel goal in that stretch. And I think the penalties just put them in some put them behind the sticks. I mean, legal procedures, false starts, holding, offensive pass interference. Like, they, anytime they did something good, they were put right behind the stick. So I thought they started to beat themselves more than anything in that second half.

So yes, I do think more points should have been scored by the bills. I think you look at how they kind of beat themselves in the second half. But overall, I think four of eight on third down, three for three scoring red zone touchdowns compared to one for four for the Jets. Like that's where your margins were made up. And I thought the, I thought the Jets got a lot of momentum from the Hail Mary. There's no question about it. For sure. I do want to talk about that hellmary in a second, but one more question, bills related. You know, we kind of always try to identify a fatal flaw for a team. Every team has a flaw, or at least they have issues that could potentially lead to their downfall. For the bills, I see a team who cannot stop the run, Joe. Is this a fatal

flaw for them? Could this cost them in the playoffs, for example? I think if game scripts get away from them, yes, the bills have been giving up rushing yards for years. It's very much part of their defensive identity. They want to take away explosive plays in the passing game. They don't give anybody heavy boxes. They didn't give the Ravens heavy boxes this year. They gave them, I think it was 40 something percent light boxes. So they're going to play static personnel, a lot of base nickel. And if they change personnel, it's dime, right? So they added extra defensive back on the field. And they invite rushing arts. They think that they can tighten the screws in the red zone. Exactly a lot in a lot of ways the game that you saw.

is we'll tighten the screws in the red zone. And our defense is based on eliminating big plays down the field. And we got to get you into some negative plays. We think we can have us up the field penetration style front. That's eventually going to get you into a behind the stick situation. We're going to pounce and tighten the screws right there. So they've been doing this for years, man, under McDermott. They'll give you all the rushing yards you want to get because, as you know,

running the ball is often just a math problem. Box players versus blockers. And the bills are never. I mean, if they're neutral box count, that's as good of a look as you're going to get from the bills defensively to help them stop the run. They just don't put bodies in the box. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, game script is going to matter for them come playoff time for sure.

If they can keep games tight, I don't think it matters as much. If you get behind, like, and you saw it against the Ravens, like, you know, giving up an 87-yarder on the first play of the game. Yeah, yeah. You're all of a sudden behind and now the Ravens can just, you know, push the ball down your throat. The bills, the bills run defenses, their offense's ability to score. Fair. That's fair. That's really what it comes down to.

And that's what happened against Baltimore. The missing part of the equation was they didn't score points on offense. And when you can, I mean, man, you know ball. If you can just sit there and run your regular offense and it never has to become a drop back passing game for a team. It's difficult to play defense with a neutral game script or, negative game script for large portions of a game. All right, I want to talk to you about the hell, Mary. But before we do, we got to take a quick break.

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slash giving Tuesday. All right, Joe, there's no secret. Aaron Rogers is the best Hail Mary thrower ever. And I had a lot of guys on my charting team ask kind of like, why is he the best? You know, I had a couple people message me last night. Like, what does Aaron Rogers do that just gets him? Like, it can't be luck at this point, right?

Like it's got to be something. I think I have a theory of why, but I'm curious to hear why you think he's good at it. All right. So this is Aaron Rogers' hell merry success in a vacuum. This is not necessarily my thoughts on how the bills dealt with that last night. I think Aaron Rogers, Aaron Rogers is one of the best arms the NFL's ever seen. So whatever you want to say about Aaron Rogers, amazing armed talent. And before he got real weird, man, I loved watching Aaron Rogers play football.

man, I thought he was the best thing in the NFL. I thought he was just super fun. I'm talking like, you know, mid-2010s. I thought he was really special. He is. He's first-bound all-famber. He's an unbelievable player. So that arm talent plus mobility, right?

Mobility is a big deal. Like your ability to find a throwing platform and be patient and throw that ball that's catchable and put a lot of air on the ball. I think that's one of the things that I see is it's in a catchable situation with lot of air on the ball that that puts his guys in favorable opportunities. And so yeah, he's the greatest hell marry thrower of all time. But I think it's a combination of movement skills, arm talent, and then just that amount of air that he's able to put on it that gives his guys a legitimate chance to come down

with the football. Yeah, verbatim almost what I was going to say. The, the arm tail, you know what it reminds me of? It's like you ever played the game 500 as a kid? Yeah, like, whole. Okay, so idea of 500 is there's one guy throwing the ball. ball got like a whole herd of dudes and like you know down the field somewhere and you're just you throw up a ball and you call out a number 100 and then if the guy if anyone catches it they get 100

points the first got of 500 points is the new quarterback's that makes sense no that's i want to play that game currently as an adult i've never heard of this man you got you got some better street games than i did we were playing roller hockey in western new york oh okay all right so that's how errin rogers There's Hail Mary's remind me that because he is so patient. You watch him. He's always looking around and making sure he's not about to get from the side. Waits till he, all of his guys are in the end zone. And then because he has the arm tail,

it. So a lot of quarterbacks, think like a Dak Prescott. They don't have the arm strength to get that ball on a, with good trajectory into the end zone. They have to drive it, which makes it less catchable, right? Because it's coming in like a missile rather than a nice loft where Rogers gets the thing to come up and, like, straight down like he's playing 500 in the street with his boys.

And I think it just helps. You know, you get receivers are typically bigger than the corners. They have typically they have better ball skills and you're just giving your guys a chance to go high point it. Obviously, you could, you mentioned, you know, you didn't want to address the way the bills handled it. But that's how every team, like everyone that's been successful, you could probably complain about the way the defense handled the situation, right? Right. Well, the bill's got a little history here of not handling Hail Mary's very well. And here's my thoughts on this, Brett.

And it goes back to the play prior, 14-yard completion to Garrett Wilson, that Bill's rushed to and drop nine. They didn't even really rush to. Like, let's be honest. Like, it was that Dayquan Jones, another defense tackle. They were pointless. They might as well just drop 11,

to be completely honest with you. And the thought that I had on that 14-yard completion was, if you're dropping nine, there shouldn't be any space to catch a football. Like, you can't even give up that 14-yard completion. And then you run. rush two again on the Hail Mary. And that to me, that's the biggest thing is in order for a Halmerie to work, there needs to be time. There has to be time for the receivers to get

down there and for the quarterback to be able to set his feet. Like, don't let them do that. Don't put it on a platter for them to say, yeah, we know what you need to achieve. You got to get your guys down there. Your quarterback has to have time to throw the ball. Don't put it on a platter for him. Make it make it hard for them to do those things. And the way that you do that is you at least rush for, like at least rush for. Yeah. I don't, I mean, I don't, there's diminishing returns to me on having that many people back in coverage. Am I wrong about this, Brett? Like, shouldn't you try to heat up these hellmeries a little bit?

They're trying to get time to set their feet to get the routes to get down the field. Like, don't let them do that. Yeah, I know, like, you know, not that the Lions defense has been special by any means the last few years, but I know Aaron Glenn blitzes hail Marys. I would. You just said, screw it. I'm not, I'm not giving you all day to set up. and throw the ball to the end zone. I'm going to come after you

and make sure that ball comes out quicker than you want it to. Right. They need time and space. Don't give it to them. Exactly. God, that was maddening. Maddening situation. So there's, I think there's a lot to get in from the jet side of things. Anything bills related, I thought three touchdowns from Josh Allen, Ray Davis, welcome back, Taryn Johnson, efficiency, winning in the red zone, both sides of the ball. I thought those were the big storylines.

And look, the stakes were big. And I think this is a good way to transition into the Jets. If the bills won that game, which they did, they now sit two and a half games up in the division at four and two. Yep, with head-to-head wins over the dolphins and the Jets, 2 and 0 in the division. If they lost, they'd have lost three in a row. They'd be in second place in three and three. Like what was that stake in a week six game was pretty significant as both offenses were looking to get on track. And I think in some ways, the Jets should be pretty satisfied with a lot of how their offense looked. But Brett, this is now like three or four weeks in a row where Aaron Rogers has had the ball late in the game with an opportunity to go win the

damn thing. And he didn't. And he even said it in his press conference after the game. I'm here to, I'm here to win this game. And you can change play callers and you can change coaches. But it doesn't change the fact that this offense, whether Aaron Rogers or anyone else, cannot make the big plays latent games that's going to give them a chance. Like, it just, they keep failing it. Yeah, that's a great observation. I think something that stands out to me is the Garrett Wilson stuff. Like, he's getting peppered with targets in the end zone, especially.

He is not catching any of them, dude. I mean, he's catching some of them. But I think three weeks in a row, he's got at least three targets in the end zone, where the ball's hitting his hands and he's not coming down with it. Now they're not drops. They don't get chartered just drops, obviously. But they're contested ball situations

where you're, like Aaron Rogers is fully expecting Garrett Wilson to come down with those. There were two in last night's game. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like this is, they're stalling out in the red zone a little bit. And I think late in games,

it's a problem because when space isn't there, like you need guys to come down with contested balls. Wilson's a, it's a phenomenal player, but I don't think him and Rogers are on the same page yet. No, and I mean, it feels like Aaron Rogers' entire process is, I'm getting the ball out lightning fast,

like under one and a half seconds, out. Or I'm going to hold it and buy a little space and I'm going to kind of just work the matchup that I like the most. And a lot of times that is Garrett Wilson, but it's not necessarily like pure execution of the offense. And I think that's, I mean, look, I just talked, I thought Josh Allen's best. stuff last night was probably when he was able to work outside of structure and create.

Like I think that's part of being a good quarterback and the NFL is the ability to do that. But I think what's hard is that all of the newness of the Jets, this is only, this is like sixth game with these players with the end now his first game with the new play caller. It's, I think for a chemistry type quarterback, it's kind of a tough situation for him, especially at this, at this point in this career. And, you know, this is, this might be a weird story. but I think this might be applicable to this Jets team. I was at church and Steve Smith was actually the guest speaker at a pretty small church.

Like I was very surprised that he was there. Like it was very surprised in the whole situation. So he took questions afterwards. And this was during, I think this might have been Cam Newton's rookie season or second season, like very young player in the NFL. And Steve Smith was asked. What's your relationship with like with Cam Newton? And he's like,

it's like, man, we're, we're at really different points in our life, man. He's like, I'm married, I've got kids. I go home, I deal with my family. Cam's got different stuff going on. Like we don't, we're, we just, we don't really have much of a connection. You know, he's the quarterback on the receiver.

And I was like, man, that's kind of weird, right? Think about this through the lens of Aaron Rogers at 40 years old. You know what I mean? What's the vibe? You know what I mean? I'm not sitting there saying that there's any, problems, right? But as a chemistry type quarterback, Aaron's a quirky old guy, right? Like, he just is. What's it like for him establishing chemistry off the field, which I think

matters with how you can come together and execute in clutch situations. Again, I don't know anything specific that I'm trying to tell you other than all of these layers together in this conversation kind of you kind of pieces together and think, yeah, well, maybe it's, that's where the lack of of clutch ability with this team is showing up efficiency high leverage moments i don't know man i think it's i think it's kind of a weird situation i mean it doesn't take long to observe that rogers is a weird guy right a strange guy and not only that he he kind of has this like mafia don persona where like he just whacked your head coach like i mean is it not hard to build relationships with the guy like that.

Like, uh, I don't know. Did you hear him talking about Mike Williams, the interception at the end of the game? No, I didn't. Oh my. In the, in the press conference, he just threw them right under the bus. He's like, you know, to take us through the interception, what's going on. He's like, well, uh, the call is, uh, two vertical shots.

Uh, Garrett down the sideline, uh, Mike down the red line. And he, he ran an in breaker. And he's like, they're like, so he's like, he's like, he's like, so when I went to go. He's like, I'm throwing a spot throw. My eyes are on Garrett.

There's two, three guys on him. He's like, I'm throwing a spot throw. And as I'm trying to throw it, I'm realizing that he's not running the right route. And so I have to adjust my arm as I'm throwing the ball. Just throwing the guy under the bus. This is, they paid this receiver to come over there. Any quarterback in the world should say, you know what? That's on me.

We got to be on the same page late in the game. And we're going to work on that this week in practice and get that cleaned up. Right. That's all you say. he like tripled down in the in answering the question that like hey i want you to know mike williams ran the wrong route there and that's why i threw that interception boy that's crappy brett whitefield so so that's setting up for now i'm going to have devante on one side wilson in the slot and lizard on the other side you're damn right that's what that's set up yeah yeah yeah threw him right

i mean just and then mike drops the pass over the middle on the big third down as well like i mean right in his right in it right in his gut man catch the damn ball if you're that guy. The expectations for Mike Williams to perform at a high level this soon off of his knee is kind of crazy. It takes guys a while, man. And they were rely. I mean, Lazard's been a revelation for them. Like he was nothing last year. Obviously him and Rod is still dropping a million passes. But yeah, he's certainly been a lot better this year.

But Brett, he's sent a one year $10 million deal with four void years tacked on to the end. You don't have time. Like, you know what I'm saying? I hear you that there's expectations are difficult to come to this early. But. You don't sign a 30-year-old receiver to that deal and then say, yeah, you know what, it'll probably be better next year. There is no next year. That's true. That is true. Wow.

I didn't realize his contract was that for void years? Yeah. They got a $5.8 million cap hit next year in void years on this deal. There was no guarantee he was going to be ready for this point of the season in general. It's bad business, Brett. I wonder if that was just a Joe Douglas thing or if Rogers was all in on that. Like we need guys or get them all out of here. Yeah.

I mean, I hope they don't. But yeah. Yeah, dude. Joe Douglas. I mean, how many Joe Douglas multiple opportunities to pick a quarterback? He's going to have like multiple opportunities to be influential in a head coachings. Like, I don't know, man. I don't know.

But so do you think there's a, well, kind of, we'll talk more jets later on because we're going to get into teams with like crazy losing streaks, but a lot of, a lot of shakeup. And I think they played a competitive game, obviously. And, but they got Breece Hall going. I think that's probably something they're excited about. But I don't know, man, I think you saw I've been talking about this Jets defensive line, ain't what it's been, man.

Yeah. And I thought you saw it got mowed over a bit last night. And I don't know, like that. I don't think their pressure was very consistent. They had like just a couple hits on the quarterback. Like the two sex they had, Josh was really just trying to. to scramble. I don't know, man. Yeah, no, I think they can get pushed around. I mean, Quinn and what is up with him, dude? He's not been good in general this year. And then just,

I was, I was focused in on him most of that game and he was just getting mulled. And, of course, a lot of it was double teams, guys. I'm not saying he was getting isoed and downblocked into oblivion, but he was, he typically holds up better against double teams. He was getting pushed four, five yards off the ball. He was getting pancaked. I saw him on the ground a bunch. I don't like, and if he's not going to be their dude, they've got nobody, man. Yeah, I think that's a problem is that you don't have anybody. And I, you know, I think we, we probably don't talk enough about defensive line pairings in chemistry and how, like, working off of each other, especially if you're going

to stunt and then, you know, being able to squeeze gaps and kind of help. Like, there's, there is a corresponding relationship between a pair of defensive tackles. And brother, his running mates Javon Kinloh. What do you do with that? You know what I mean? I've just caused him the game in general last night. bro, that was three penalties and like a five place stretch. It was insane.

Like that, but he's, he's been an underwhelming player for his entire career. Yeah. And I mean, I. What did, what did they pay that guy? I mean, was it, hopefully it was a nothing burger. I got to know right now. What that was a solid. Oh, I'm sure it was.

Okay. One year seven and a quarter million with four void years tacked on to the end. Brett Whitefield, they're own. They paying them four point four million next year. That is, that is insane. So you put it all in this, man. You put it all in this team. They have to go get Devante Adams.

They're two and four. Their pot committed to this season, though. They have to make a move. And obviously, that's the one Rogers will want. All right. I got one more thought on the Jets that I want to get to. And then we got to get to the lions and the Cowboys and a whole lot more. Folks, be sure to stick with us.

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All right, Brett Whitefield, we've been kind of clowning the Jets, which I'm always happy to do. The reality of their situation, though, I always think about this, I always think about that Tampa team with Tom Brady. I think about them being 7 and 5, and you're just kind of wondering, and then it just clicks.

is there a world they get Devante Adams you know I think all things consider this is a team coming off of a London game with a new coach with a new offensive play caller we saw three and six teams

all over the NFC last year make a run and get to the playoffs I don't think the AFC is that loaded this year I think you've got like the Chiefs Ravens Texans maybe the bills in a tier there a bunch of teams that are out of it, and then this huge cluster of like two and four,

three and three type teams that I think's got to settle itself out. And I still think from the Jets, like, you could still be part of that mix. You do have another head to head game against Buffalo late in the season. You do have a pretty soft schedule here moving forward. Like it feels bad, but it ain't over for the Jets. No, no, it's not over. they uh this is crazy too i've actually liked what i've seen from rogers for most of most games there's just a few moments here and there where they're not where they're not winning you mentioned

the end of game stuff like that's been true in three games in a row so i actually think he's playing pretty well uh you still see the arm talent his his uncanny ability to create something out of nothing is awesome too i still think he's got that in him they can't run the ball to save their life obviously they ran the ball pretty well last night but if that's a turning point for that run game, then that that's a good sign. So I, to answer, yeah, they got a lot going right, even though they're two and four, maybe if they hit a trade like a Devante Adams thing that just gives Rogers more confidence, gives the offense more confidence.

I don't know, but that, you know, I think the one thing that could come out of that, we can make jokes about it all day, but like there is a Garrett Wilson getting doubled and tripled problem. They're rolling coverages. He's getting bracketed in every play. Like, you put Devante Adams in the mix, Joe, that frees some stuff up. I think offensively, I'm not too concerned. especially if they make a deal like the, you know, the Devante Adams one.

It's the defense, I guess. It's just slipped up enough a little bit where if they don't, if they don't get better on offense, if they don't approve on offense, I don't think their defense can carry them anymore. I think it will be good. It will be a good unit. But it's not like last year that defense dominated and they carried them to seven wins,

basically. So that's kind of where I'm at. It's not over for them, though, by any means. All right. We're going to talk about the Detroit Lions that mopped the first. floor with the Dallas Cowboys. And can we start here? I think the most important question that I have for you about the Detroit Lions is what

was Dan Skippers ass score? Oh, we had to create new scores for him. Incredible. Do you know who Shane Gillis is the comedian? Yeah. So he's kind of got like this awkward big frame and he always does these weird little gyrations when he's when he's on stage. Dan Skipper running that route looked like how Shane Gillis would run a route if he's in an NFL game.

What a weird parallel to bring together. The first thing I thought of when I saw it, man. But yeah, great ass on Dan Skipper for sure. What's your big thought, man? You said it. You said this was going to be a bloodbath. The Lions, this is a big meaningful game. And they come in and they have him report as eligible.

the first play. Like this felt this was personal for Detroit, man. This was personal. Oh, dude, it was it was personal. They try, I mean, how many plays did they run to try to get an offensive lineman touchdown? A bunch. Decker's getting into targets. Penet Sewell getting the hook and ladder. Dan Skipper splitting out wide when you're up 40 points, Joe. They had a 38 point lead and they're splitting Dan Skipper out wide. Like this was beyond personal. Detroit wanted to leave an imprint. They wanted to make sure the Cowboys knew where they stood. It was great to watch. Most complete football game I've ever seen the Detroit Lions play in my lifetime.

I'm 37 years old, Joe. I've been around since 1987. The lines were good in the early 90s, and I still don't know of a game that was more complete than this, all three phases. Now, the thing that is kind of clouding this awesome win is, it came at a very high cost with Aidan Hutchinson. I was legitimately busted up for him, man.

It was tough. Not even thinking about the team and what it means for the team, just thinking about Aiden and how hard he works, man. It, it sucked, man. That's terrible. I think non-Lions fans feel the same way. I think, first of all, everybody that's not a fan of a team in the NFC North likes the lions.

Like, you just do. Like, if you like ball, you like the lions. They do it the right way. They have a head coach that is as an authentic of a human being as you could possibly get, and I think real recognizes real. Like, if you don't like the Lions, you just don't like good things. Or you're a fan of a team in the

NFC North. But Hutch has, embodies so much of that, right? Like, does everything the right way, works hard, like a big, good personality, like, a good human being in the community, like, great family. And he's having a defensive player of the year type

season. Like, it was, it was everything you were excited about Hutch being this year. And, like, you knew immediately that he broke his leg, man. It wasn't hard. I mean, you don't have to be a doctor to figure that out. So it's like an absolute gut punch to, of course, Lions fans, but to anybody that really

just likes football, sucked. It sucked. Yeah. Yeah, if the season would have ended this week, he would have been the defensive player of the year, in my opinion, pretty easily. Leading the NFL in sacks, pressures, pass rush, win rate,

any metric you have for a defensive of lineman he was at the top of the list so it's a huge loss for the lines that can't be understated um i think i the conversation probably needs to go to what do they do from here like where do they go um one thing i'll say joe is i do think oh this is going to sound hot taking it's not it's not actually hot taking but this defense this year i think is better without hutch than last year's defense was with hutch that's not to me how no i think that speaks to the upgrades that they have in the second and development from players levi iranzerike is a legitimate three tech and he's their third interior player and you know what i mean like yeah he's a stud he can actually play on the edge

a little bit too so they get a little bit out of them out of him there j paskel is playing out of his mind right now he's come along as another edge player for them dj reader is a huge upgrade and then the secondary upgrades across the board amic robertson brian branch kirby joseph terrian arnold played his best game this week um carlton davis is a legit stabilizing force at outside corner they haven't had in gosh since darius sleigh probably so i mean this was this was a huge they made huge upgrades all the way around and that defense last year they tightened up down the stretch i don't know if you remember like the last five games of the season they were giving up like 200 yards to the wide receiver one in every game i think it was like seriously like four years

games in a row was like Jefferson CD Lamb Pooka Nakuwa Mike Evans they all went for like over 200 but nobody else got anything and so but now you've seen they have the cornerback play to kind of stop that from happening I mean Dak Dak in this game was horrendous even after Hutch left like he was he was back and a lot of that is just tight coverage across the board they're playing a lot of man they're getting after it huge loss I mean this is devastating right because this is a team with Super Bowl aspirations they're going to have to to probably do something make a move but I just wanted to state that I do think that this defense is better without Hutch this year than they were last year with Hutch. Yeah, I think there's, I think there's a lot of truth to that. But

they're still at their best right now with this defense with Hutch. And that's just been stripped away from us. So before we talk replacement for Hutch, I want to ask you one more Lions thing. And then obviously, I think there's a Dallas conversation to have here. Dave Montgomery, contract extension. Yeah. What's your, what's your knee jerk? What's your knee jerk that? Well, you know, you know where this is a, this kind of splits my, this is a splitting conversation for me. All right. I do this would be uncomfortable. That's why I wanted to ask you.

Yeah. I'm obviously a running backs don't matter guy, or at least have been. The NFL is cyclical, though. We've seen even this year that running the ball does matter. The lines are one of the few teams in the, in the NFL with a positive EPA per run. They are obviously a phenomenal running team. This is, you know, the third year in a row, really, that's been their identity. So from that standpoint, I don't necessarily hate the investment in the running backs.

Also, I love the player David Montgomery. I think he's phenomenal. I think he, you talk about culture. Hutch is kind of like mini Dan Campbell in a lot of ways. Well, Montgomery also embodies a lot of who Dan is as a player. And then there's the whole bit of like what David really brings to the table. you can't even measure it's locker room stuff it's leadership it's hard to measure that stuff joe i don't know how to do it you know it's we can be we can be contract skeptics all day long and i

nine million bucks a year for a running back is a lot of money that is a lot of money so i i'm skeptical of that but man what he brings at the table what he means to that team is so much more than touchdowns and yards it's hard to it's really hard to quantify it's hard everything's going right right right so you like it right are we going to like that contract in three years from now Yeah, I think with running back contracts, it comes down to two things, opportunity cost and availability. Right. So you're always going to wonder about the production he does give and if it could be easily found by somebody else in a limited resource environment, which is the NFL that you can only pay so much amount of money to your players, is it good to pay it to a running back? Right. And I think that you've done well to point out a lot of the other. things that matter for David Montgomery, which I think are important in the equation.

But then I think we're really where these running back deals become hard to digest is not only does it feel like the production's easy to find, these guys just get hurt, right? Like, they just do. And so hopefully for David Montgomery, I think the production will be fine and the impact will be fine. Just be available. Like, don't have that.

I mean, any, whatever running back contract has happened, I can tell you a terrible story about durability and replaceability. So two points on that. One, I mean, this is the, his third contract actually, right? Like he's, so he was already getting paid. I think he was like what the 11th highest paid running back in the NFL already. Two, availability has definitely been a good part of his. That's definitely why they extended him. like this dude is tough as nails when i talk about culture for that's what i'm like this dude will

play through anything now he's been he hasn't been hurt this year and he wasn't hurt for most of last year early in the year last year uh early in the season last year though he did play through ankle and quad injuries and he's always even going back to chicago he's always been a guy that's willing to play when he's hurt and i think gosh i think he's uh there was a high ankle sprain moment in chicago where that sets guys down for two three four weeks and he played the next week with the high ankle sprain so like he's definitely tough available is a good thing for him availability is a i'm sorry a good trait for him um but to answer your question about the production too he right now he's playing at an unbelievable level so like can you replace that with somebody

else yeah you probably can replace a lot of it but he is giving them a little something extra right now like the the force miss tackles the big moments too in which he's doing it you know like Like taking a screen pass on third and seven that, you know, is about to go for minus two, bouncing off three guys to grab 40 yards in the past game. Like that's, I mean, unbelievable type stuff. So he's playing his best ball right now. Is that going to last for the duration of the contract, though? I'm inclined to say probably not, but they're in a window right now where they want to win.

They're also, it's who they want to take care of their guys. It's who they are as a team. They see Montgomery as one of the stalwarts of the offense, It's one of the foundational pieces. So they're going to reward him with a contract. And I don't hate that part of it. I think that builds a good culture. Players will want to come here and be a part of what you're doing because of that.

Yeah. That's good to point out some of those secondary benefits of it. And he's, he turned 27 in June. So it's not like he's 100 years old. But it's kind of at that teetering point where you start to wonder. I'm sure you know this, but six touchdowns for David Montgomery this season. He scored in every game. has any other player that's a non-quarterback been able to say that that they've scored in every game this year?

Yeah, he scored, no, he scored in nine regular season games straight. Wow. And he also scored in all three of their playoff games last year. So this, this dude's score. So five plus three, that's he's scored in a lot of, I mean, this is unbelievable. Yeah. No, it is kind of part. Like, remember Jamal Williams had what, the 18 touchdown season before he left for New Orleans.

Yeah, this is what the Lions do. This is what they do. When they get in the red zone, they are pounding you in the face. Jamal Williams not been that good for the Saints. I'm just saying. I'm just saying it's predictable. Yeah, you know. All right.

I want to talk about Dallas. We got to get to that and a whole lot more folks. Be sure to stick with us. So for all the joy in Detroit, got the revenge, smoked the Cowboys. The Cowboys sit licking their wounds after a 47. to nine loss at their home stadium. Remember when the narrative with the Cowboys was, man, they're good at Jerry World.

Not lately. My prevailing thought with Dallas is that I feel bad for Mike McCarthy. I don't think much of Mike McCarthy, Brett. I don't think he's a great head coach. But what is he supposed to do, man? What is he supposed to do with this roster that people above, He's going to have pressure from people above him that made bad decisions with the roster management that put Mike McCarthy in a situation where he just doesn't have the talent to go toe for to Detroit. The story of the last few head coaches there, is it not?

100%. It's not a very attractive job, in my opinion. No, Jerry's too involved. Jerry's too involved. His department is way too involved, whether that's his son or some of their other scouting personnel. but man they this has been an ongoing issue since jason garrett was there where it's just like he doesn't have enough control over who he gets to put on the field and that's i think that's an issue no and i like i'm with you i don't think mccarthy some you know shining example of a top

tier head coach by any means i think he's a fine coach but he's not he's not really a difference maker he's a get by with him kind of guy but yeah i i mean it's it's constant personnel issues for them so and just deficiencies on the roster. But everyone's waiting for Mike McCarthy to get fired. What are you going to do? Make Mike Zimmer your head coach? What are we doing here? I just, I feel like he's in a tough spot.

And their roster management's goofy. And I don't think this is a very attractive job in the landscape of the NFL. Like, I think Jerry's probably went out and tried to get some big names. And, you know, settles on a Mike McCarthy who I don't. think was ever going to get another head coaching job if Dallas didn't give this to him. So Dallas is just a soft football team, man. They just are. And now DAC is the highest paid quarterback in the NFL, right?

Yeah. Good luck. Good luck. Do I like that? I mean, no, I don't like that. Yeah. Dude, look at it doesn't get better. They're at San Francisco, at Atlanta.

Billy Houston Act the commanders Woo! Boy, are we looking at like a 4 and 17 here pretty soon? So they basically, six weeks in a row, they have to play all of the NFC playoff teams. And it's actually

Vikings. Sorry, not NFC, but six playoff teams. Cool. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. Boy, it's going to get ugly. I just, I don't like, I don't like, Parsons is. her. I don't know, man.

Yeah, DeMarcus Lawrence on IR as well. Their D-Line is a mess in general right now. I mean, lions exposed that early in the game. They were just having their way with them. We talked last week about the 49ers schedule coming up and noting how tough it was. Well, Dallas

was one of the teams you were thinking was maybe tough. Maybe not. Maybe the 49ers just continue the bloodbath here. Yeah, I think the 49ers getting that win on Thursday night was big for them. And, I think Brock Purdy's playing really well this year. I mean, we didn't really plan to get too much into the Niners today.

But they're going to be tested, obviously, Chiefs, Dallas, Bucks, Seattle, Green Bay, Buffalo, their next stretch of games. Like, we'll find out about the 49ers. But I think they should have confidence in how Brock Purdy is playing. He's still getting a little loosey-goosey with the football, but yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what he does, man. I made a choice about midway through last year.

I'm like, I guess this is just who he is and he's just going to get away with it. Yeah. It's like, I don't know how it's like a little bit like Doug Flutie back in the day where you're just like, I don't know, man. It's like somehow they figure it out. And I don't think the process is very good. I think there's limited physical ability, but somehow it just keeps working. So until it doesn't, I'm going to stop sounding silly and doubting Brock Bird. Yeah.

So same. That touchdown throw he had the Debo Samuel on Thursday night. That was funny. Like that, that's a pick six a lot of the time. not for Brock Purdy. 70-yard touchdown or whatever, 80-yard touchdown, whatever it was. Yeah, not for Brock Purdy.

That's a teddy. Drake May? Yes. NFL debut. Let's do it. Go ahead. Me? Okay. Here's the thing with,

it was about what I expected. And then, is to start at least. And then I thought Drake settled in and started making some stuff happen. And I was impressed with some of the stuff he did. but let's not mince words here the start of this for him was was rough um some of man here's a pet peeve i have in just developing quarterbacks in general we saw it with Caleb early in the

year when you got guys like Caleb Williams and drake may who what they do is playoff script and win with their legs and win with a creative decision-making process that what you kind of constantly see is a play caller say, you know what? We want to make sure this quarterback's comfortable. So we're going to give them like the Patriots started with like quick game only in this game. These really weird like spacing and in, you know, double lion and I don't know, like just a bunch of different quick game concepts.

So the question I want to ask is how does forcing a quarterback to do something they don't like to do themselves? How does that make them comfortable? And the answer is I don't think it does, Joe. And I think Caleb getting off to a slow start and now he's playing, he's gotten better every week. And he played insanely good this week. And Drake May wasn't until really the second half here where he settled in because he just said, screw it.

I'm making some stuff happen. But early in this game, it was like, you're forcing him into, you're forcing a square peg into a round hole. This is not what Drake May does. You can't force him to play within rhythm and timing. I don't know why we keep seeing this across the league and I know that New England doesn't have a great foundation for Drake Mae as it is but man, early in the game it was a lot of happy feet in the pocket, a lot of just really messy footwork.

And even like I know the pressure is an issue, but it wasn't early in this game. He wasn't getting pressured that much. Third downs were an issue. The play calling was an issue. But then all of a sudden you see the armed talent. He had to throw to Kashan Boutet, which was awesome. ripping a backside dig a couple drives later.

That was awesome. Making stuff happen with his legs. I think he extended the chains on third down a couple times at the legs. Or set up, I should say. I think he had a second and, what a second 15. He scrambled for about nine yards and then got them into a manageable third down situation. Point being is like we got a making a quarterback comfortable isn't simply just giving him easy throws. You should actually make him comfortable.

Go let him do what he does best. And I felt like it wasn't until that decision happened, Drake May started to play good. Yeah, I've heard Josh Allen talk about this. He's like, the worst thing that an offensive coordinator can do for me is try to get me in rhythm to start a game. He's like, I don't want to. He's like, I'm amped up. I'm excited. The worst, the last, the ball feels weird in my hands.

He's like, I don't want to have quick completions because the ball is going to come out weird. I'm just, I either want to take a hit, like, let me run the ball or let me just launch one down the field, right? Just like, get it going, you know? And then you kind of get a bucket when you need. to get a bucket. So I'm with you on that. It's, and it's like a every, even in the broadcast, even veteran quarterbacks, you hear the commentators, well, we've got to get this guy in rhythm. Like, really? I don't know, man. How about you just try to run good plays and try to move the ball? I will say this about Drake May, man. What a tough situation to start your NFL career.

This Texans defense is pretty good, man. I think, I think their coverage rotations are about as clean as any team that I watch in the NFL with how they space the field and how synchronized they are with their with their spacing and then I mean who dude like who are these tackles. Zach Thomas and Demontre Jacobs are the tackles for the Patriots in this game going up against DeNeil Hunter and Will Anderson and then like Ben Brown was on the team for like three days at center. I can't believe the situation that Drake May was in. And I think that makes it all the more impressive that he came in and was able to put on tape what he put on tape.

And yeah, it wasn't all perfect. I don't think I ever expected it to be. But I think this was probably some of the most dynamic quarterback. that I've seen from a Patriots quarterback in a very, very long time under very, very difficult circumstances. And so for as much as I kind of went into the decision concerned about what it could mean for Drake May and a tough assignment, and you know, you've said multiple times Jacoby Presets here to be a meat shield, be the meat shield. We didn't get better. Like we're not, we're not in a better situation now. Like, and the messaging has been goofy. All through that, I think

Drake May came out of this thinking, all right, yeah, I think you'll let the, let the kid play and and get reps and experience and let's build or let's find out what he's like and build around in this offseason and see where this can go. So I, I think the process was bad to get to this point. But I think Drake May earned a lot of my respect for, for the high points of what he was able to show against Houston. Yes. I want to, I want to take another stab about articulating what I mean here. Sorry. Okay. I feel like, I feel like, I feel like. it just clicked. Why setting a quarterback up to play in rhythm and timing when that's not their thing? So here's the thing with Drake May. He doesn't really trust his eyes. He's a see it throw it kind of guy.

Asking him to sit back, hit that back foot and rip a ball with timing and anticipation on quick game or even shorter past concepts. It's just something he doesn't do. So it's the these are competing thoughts. We're going to put Drake May in Quick game to protect him to make the ball's out quick to make sure he doesn't get hit. The problem is, is the ball still doesn't come out because this isn't what he does. This isn't his game. He's not going to hit that back foot and let it rip with timing anticipation. So now he's holding the ball longer than the play's designed to go, which means he's going to what, Joe? He's going to take hits. And that's what we saw in this game. They were calling quick stuff for him and he was still getting hit because the ball's not coming out when it's supposed to because that's not how Drake May plays football. Ergo, they need to just let him

be creative let him loose a little bit um third down play early in the game right tackle just gets absolutely demolished and it's like and you could see drake's confidence kind of go down a little bit after that it's like he hits his back foot he doesn't he kind of turns down the open receiver looks to make a play to his right and just gets absolutely demolished so i do think there are some things drake may can do better the footwork was so messy joe he's got to learn to reset the line of scrimmage right at north carolina what would he do if he got pressure just run. Yeah, well, they also don't preach footwork at North Carolina.

True, true. Like legitimately, openly don't. Yeah. Just not a thing. Just not a thing. So, yeah, he can reset that offensive line better. He can slide, move in the pocket and stay in the pocket where it's not just, you don't like what you see.

You get out of there. It's harder in the NFL, man. If you're not an S-tier athlete, you're not necessarily going to get out of the pocket cleanly like you think you're going to. So, all right, anyways, Drake May rant over. All right. We got some teams that are on some big losing streaks. We've got one, two.

There's six teams in the NFL right now that have lost three or more games in a row. Now, we've kind of touched on a couple of these teams. But let's go on a journey here and consider these situations and consider if there's a path out or if these teams are just cooked. Because it feels like for a lot of these teams, it's getting away from that Brett Whitefield. Let's start with the biggest losing streak in the NFL, the team we just talked about the New England Patriots who have now dropped five in a row.

They beat the Bengals in week one. They run the ball with Ramandre Stevenson. And now we have a different quarterback. Ramandre Stevenson has fallen out of favor with the coaching staff and the Patriots have lost five in a row. Where are we headed? What's the direction of the 2024 New England Patriots? Well, Ramondry was hurt in this game, just so we're clear.

I mean, even the week before, they're talking about ball security and Gibson getting involved. Yeah. They benched him for like a drive, right? And then he, I think he was still the main guy. It paid this running back, Brett Whitefield. I know. Is Reminders Stevenson one of your best 11 offensive players? Yes.

Keep him on the field. I get that he's fumbling. Let's work on ball security and practice then, you know? But to your point, this, this off. This roster in general, Joe, is in a really tough spot. in the trenches specifically they are thin at best and it's i felt like with the defensive line in years past with bellichick like he had a very certain type he liked and he could get by with a lot we're not seeing these guys produce for um for jared mayo the way they they did for um for bill

belliotech here but i mean without uh who's their main dog in the middle um barmo or more he's oh marrpor he's not available. Yeah, he's hurt. So with him gone, I think it's kind of exposed the whole interior. They're not playing very well right now. Keon White's developed pretty nicely, but after that, it's rough, man. And then on the offensive side of the ball, dude, it's just, it's, talking about personnel decisions, personnel issues, man. This is, this team is rough, rough shape across the board. They've lost three of their last four games by three or more scores. The one game that they didn't lose by multiple scores was the dolphins with Tyler Luntley.

in in foxborough so the question was like okay where's this team heading they're headed to the number one pick yeah you know like that's that's a type of path that they're on and um obviously that'll create some fun conversations about not a quarterback going number one and what they do unless you left tackle no that guy's not that that will campbell you think that guy's the number one overall type player i first of all i think he's a guard i haven't scouted him. I have no idea. I can tell. I can tell. You haven't scouted him because if you have, you wouldn't be saying that type of stuff. I just know there's a lot of hype on him and he's no. He's a good. Is there a better tackle in this class? Brett Whitefield, I'm 25 players into this

class. I'm supposed to be have watched like the better 25 prospects. We're missing some stuff in this draft class, which obviously will, we'll get into those conversations. But I'm like, these are the best players. This is what we have. Maybe the, maybe the draft has a lot of depth, but there is top end talent that is just not, not here for me. Um, It's all on the opposite side of the ball, I think, again, skill players, receivers and running backs, right? I mean, that's sort of, man. I think there might be just a few guys that are like really like, wow, prospects to me. So it's definitely kind of strange.

Okay, so that's the Patriots. They've lost five in a row. We've got a couple of teams that have lost four in a row, one of the AFC, one in the NFC. Let's go to the NFC team. The New Orleans Saints have lost four consecutive games. They won their first two. killed the Cowboys. They killed the Panthers. And then they've proceeded to drop four in a row and Spencer Rattler in that quarterback defense gets Mollywop by the bucks. 51 points for the

bucks in that game. Uh, the Saints, where are they headed? Bro, this is talk about a fall. Everyone was hyping up this team after a couple weeks, Joe. The Saints are back. Then a salon has these. I'm not going to, I don't want to do this. I don't want to toot our own horn, but did we not call this you said oh and six and then they took that personal but then they came what they're supposed to be well and so i adjusted expectations quite heavily i think i put them in my top 10 power rankings at the quarter mark right was maybe not the quartermark but before that i had said i was buying in you though stayed hesitant and you said i'm not changing my stance because this roster still stays right and i think you're right

dude the roster basically saw no upgrades this off season and you're seeing that catch up with them man this it's just not a very good football team they have good players for sure but man they have a lot of holes dude a lot of holes i think rachit jahid's an awesome player and he needs to be getting wide receiver one kind of volume because i think chriselave is good too but i think sheid might be better joe i know that's a side a total sidetracked sidebar but that that wasn't the top of my mind But yeah, the Saints roster just isn't very good. And I think you're seeing that now. They started hot and they've lost four in a row.

I kind of feel like they might be dead. Dead dead. And they're not the type of team that can withstand the injuries that they've had as well. You know, they're kind of your thin team that's had injuries. I mean, Caesar Ruiz, Pete Werner, Derek Carr, Ryan Ramchek. Like, you got to have your guys, man. You got to have those players. Yeah.

And then, but I think that's what's disappointing. this is now, this is now, like, statistically one of the worst defenses in the NFL. And that was supposed to be the thing that you can cling to. And, I mean, they're giving up, I mean, they're giving up points and yards to everybody. And I think that this NFC South is really shaping up to just be a Falcons, Falcons and Bucks conversation. And the Bucks obviously had the big win. So the Falcons, they took the head-to-head last week on Thursday night. So, yeah, I think the Saints, I think we can kind of push them down.

Speaking of pushing down, how about the other team that's lost four in a row, that's the Cleveland Browns. Another team that doesn't, I mean, they're just punchless on offense with the Sean Watson. They can't, you can't go to war with that guy. He just can't. I mean, it's like, what, what, I know wins above replacement is not really a thing. in the NFL, but like it's hard to reconcile what this team was with Flacco and just the, it's like historically bad offense. They think they don't have a prayer, man.

They don't have a prayer to move the ball. Everything's bad. Everything's hard. And every Deshawn Watson dropback looks the same. It's gross. He cannot play. Somebody, one of these data nerds the other day tweeted something where it's like, in the last 10 or 15 years or something, there's been, you know,

566 quarterbacks that have played at least 12 games in the season or something like, not different quarterbacks, but 12 game plus seasons. Right now, of them, Deshaun Watson ranks like 558th in every discernible metric, every efficiency metric, yards per attempt, third down conversion, like literally everything, he's historically one of the worst quarterbacks ever to play. And I still see Cleveland Brown's beatwriters tweeting out, Deshawn's contract saying this is why he'll never get benched. What does it matter though, Joe?

You owe the guy the money whether he plays or not. Yeah, you're killing it. Why are you purposely killing your own team? Yeah. It's not it's not defensible. It's not, it's not defensible. We've had this conversation. You went out and you got James Winston and you have DTR and you had Tyler Huntley, like you were deliberate about quarterback depth.

Guys, you cannot look at the other 52 players on that roster and say that we're doing the right things to put this team in the best positions to win football games at the most important position. So like, I think there's a lot of good grace that Andrew Berry and Kevin Sofonsky have built. I think they just signed extensions. Like there's there's some good there. But like, to me, it's all evaporating right before our eyes. And I, and I feel bad if this is a decision that's higher than Soponsky that he's put in this spot. But anybody with two eyes, maybe even, I mean, I don't even think two eyes is a qualifier. this guy cannot play.

And it's not even like you're hopeful that it could change. It's just a bad situation. So the Browns for like a minute, you weren't the laughing stock of the league and you're right back there. And it's because of what your organization is doing with the Sean Watson. Not because you're not spending, not because you don't have other talent. That's what's disappointing. This is a good football team in terms of talent. You just cannot go to war with that quarterback.

Can't do it. It's gotten so bad. that national pundits like Dan Patrick goes on his podcast area and says, the Detroit line should call Cleveland Browns about Miles Garrett. Joe, like, he's the best defensive player in the league, probably. You're not trading him, yet national pundants are starting to do that, that routine, right? That's embarrassing, dude. You have one of the best defensive players in the league year over year,

and now there's people suggesting you trade that player. Now, obviously, that's just speculate. I'm not saying that's actually what will happen. It's just crazy that people are even going there, dude. Because that's a foundational piece. That's a guy you build your team around or have built your team around. And I don't know. I think Baker Mayfield got a raw deal in Cleveland.

Absolutely. He was hurt. The tackles were hurt. Like, what are we doing? They still won a playoff game with a torn labrum in his shoulder. Other teams that are slumping. We've got three teams that have lost. three in a row. Welcome to the party.

The New York Jets dropped three in a row with their most recent loss to the bills. Their three game skid comes against the bills, Vikings, the 10 to 9 loss to the Broncos. We talked a lot about the Jets. I do have a level of optimism for this team more than the other ones

that we've discussed that there's a path forward that you could get this back on track a little bit. it's got to happen but I'm more optimistic about the Jets than anything we've talked about to this point agreed I mean for one their schedule lightens up as you already noted but two

the deciding factor here with all these teams is they actually have a good quarterback and I value quarterback played a lot if you can get Rogers just a little bit better I think that means a lot for this team and he's he still got it in my opinion and quarterbacks drive the NFL yeah

And you know, it's funny. It's like for all the conversations about like trading for Devante Adams, I think they'd be so much better served the trade for a defensive lineman. I mean, after they lose Jermaine Johnson, they don't have another good defensive tackle that's not named Quinn and Williams. The Hassan Redick situation. Like maybe that's, maybe Hassan Reddick comes back to town. You trade Devante Adams.

And it's like, all right, we feel better about this. And like Mosley's kept been hurt basically for most of the year. You know, I think there's, there's, um, he's been hurt for most of his contracts there, hasn't he? Well, he had a couple of good years, kind of sandwiched in, but yeah, he's been banged up and try to go last night. I don't think he was able to finish the game. So we have some level of optimism for the Jets.

And then the other team is the Seahawks who have now dropped three games in a row. They're a really interesting team to me. Always a bit of an experiment with a lot of things coming together. They win their first three, beat the Broncos, Patriots, Dolphins. Then they fall to the lions. Giants and 49ers, all three of their losses by more than one possession. And I know that maybe you look at the Giants game, there's a field goal block at the end, right? You could talk about that maybe with an asterisk.

But is this getting away for them? You think they can get this back on track? The next game is at Atlanta. Then they host the Bills, host the Rams into their by week. They're another team that's dealt with some pretty serious injury issues, especially on the D line, right? Like shoot against Detroit. They didn't have a single starting defensive line.

that game. So you would assume they get some of those guys because none of those are long term, right? They should be back here and there. Right. You know, get a guy back this week, next week. You know, that maybe helps them out quite a bit. They just traded for, um, Roy Robertson Harris. Yeah, right. A decent player. Yeah, he's a decent player. That could help them a lot in the short term for sure. I guess it comes back to quarterback play. What Gino are we going to get? Looked awesome the first three weeks. Yeah. Then all of a sudden things slowly started slipping, man.

The lions, giants, and then this past week with the 49ers, just not, turnover is a big problem for him right now. Just not seeing the field the way he should, not keep, you know, taking care of the football. And that sounds cliche, but man, when you're turning the ball, when you're losing the turnover battle, you're going to lose a lot of games. Yeah, they've, they've turned a ball over multiple times in four of their first six games. And they only have a takeaway in two games.

So that's, that's supposed to. be what they're good at that that with that secondary you know right and i'm optimistic that it can i i think that's the story is like okay byron murphy and leonard williams and uchenna and wosu and uh leon i don't know so winter waves or not i mean reek woland missed the last game like there's yeah dude man like i think it's only a matter of time before that defense becomes really good it's just do you have a complimentary run game i think is my biggest question and is your interior offensive line going to be good enough to stabilize and give yourself a chance. So this secondary though was supposed to be awesome.

And they have just been getting the door. Dude, they got destroyed by the giants wide receivers without Malik neighbors. Wondell Robinson and Dary Slayton were out there just honestly having their way with them. You think it's strictly D line related? Do you think? Is there a bigger question to have about Mike McDonald and coverage? Because I feel like this was a much like a conversation with Baltimore. where it's like, okay, we like we just have coverage problems despite having like pretty good

talent. Well, so he, he definitely plays a unique style of football where it's every, literally every snap has some type of sim pressure. So you're not necessarily, you don't necessarily have guys in the right spot where they're going to be covering. They have to roll to that spot, right? So that you need a lot of good communication on the back end if you're going to get away with that.

He did this at Michigan too. There were games when he was the Michigan's defensive coordinator where it was like very frustrating to watch. Teams finding a lot of busts in the coverage. I think you're seeing that. But I mean, on paper, their secondary is supposed to be ridiculous, man. So I agree with you, but like, metrically, these past defenses, Baltimore and last year in Baltimore, 31st in EPA per dropback against the past, 22, with Baltimore. Let's see what that EPA was. I don't even know what it is. We're going to find out right now. Where are you? this year, I think. Right, but it carries over to Seattle. So the middle of the pack the year before,

it's just like, I don't know, man. There's something we're doing here. Coverage watch that we need to shore up and ask ourselves some questions because it feels like the talent and results, discrepancy isn't what it's supposed to be for these Mike McDonald past defenses. This is something I've been wanting to ask you, actually, and it pertains to the Seahawks quite a bit. So rolling safeties, you know, changing the, the middle of the field look, pre-snap to post-snap has been kind of like a cheat code in the NFL last. years especially if you've got a D-line that's not necessarily getting home you start rolling your safeties a little bit post-snap you make that quarterback hold the ball for a half second longer because

he's got to now process the new coverage he's seeing versus his pre-snap look um that's been a cheat code but at the you know deployed at like a 20 to 25 percent rate but then you have teams now doing it like the chiefs are doing it near 50 percent of the time the Seahawks are way up there the ravens are way up there. Do you think it's almost too predictable now? And quarterbacks are just, they're anticipating the middle of the field look to change post-nap. And that's maybe why, like, do you think the NFL's caught up to the whole rock and roll and safety thing? I think I've seen in studying tape more often than in the past this year, teams getting in trouble with those rotations. Yeah. Because that, well, yeah, because now these players are so focused on getting to a landmark. And a lot of times

are getting to a landmark to cover grass, right? And so I feel like I've seen that happen more and more. So I think that's a great point. I'm not sure anybody's brought that up. I certainly haven't thought of it until you just said it, where, yeah, of course, I think the cyclical nature of the NFL is, there is an anticipatory element. So like, hey, I want to get a pre-snap read,

but at some point, you got to realize that these are false reads. And you can't just continue to take that information and get yourself in trouble. So I think the anticipation of the rotation and understanding, hey, what I'm getting here, probably not what I'm going to have. And so it certainly probably does impact progressions. And like I said, I've seen those guys getting to landmarks. And it's like, well, all right, you're not covering anybody. And now there's not when now we have a void and you're getting a completion.

So yeah, I think that's true. I think that's true. I'm a great observation. Now I'm going to be looking for that. Now I'm going to be, that's going to be a big on my mind as I'm watching tape. You're moving forward. Good. Good.

Yeah, dude, I feel like every time I see a busted coverage specifically, I'm like, it was right after a safety rotation post snap. I could probably verify that with my own data, and I probably should seek to do that. You know, you're that guy. You watched every play 47 times, so maybe just 40. Just, just, yeah, 41. 414. Split the diff there.

All right. Should we get out of here? Been hours 10 in, you know, early in the morning. Want to go eat breakfast? Yeah, you know, I hadn't have coffee yet either. I was drinking mine as we started the show. I saw that. I saw that and I was jealous.

I'm not. going to lie. I woke up early to make that coffee. Yeah, I slept in and slept in and ruined my opportunity to make coffee, which is obviously the business decision you make coming out of a prime time game

into an early morning recording. So I think if on the video side here, which I don't, not everybody doesn't, the whole show is go to YouTube or whatever, but I think you've seen the sunrise here in my office. I was literally just to say that. It's nice to see that where you are. Michigan's still dark. So,

So it's like pitch black in my room, even though my curtains are open on my door wall. So all right, that's going to do it, folks. Remember, no matter what develops, we will always be your first read. Even if the safeties are rotating, thank you for listening. We are out.