Fantasy Football Daily - The NFL's Top Wide Receiver Units | Take Talk Podcast

Episode Date: May 13, 2023

In Take Talk 54, Steve O'Rourke (@callmesteveo7) and Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) select and debate their top-10 wide receiver corps in the NFL. It's one of the most important positions in the league, and it's a spirited discussion! Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoints.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the TikTok podcast. My name is Steve O'Rourke, and as always, I'm with my co-host, Brett Whitefield. Brett, how you doing today? Oh, I am doing just terrific. the weather is getting nice here in Michigan, and it is schedule release Thursday.

So I'm just peachy. I'm peachy. Yeah, I love schedule release day. I'm excited. I think that with social media and everything, like teams are really ramping up how they do the schedule release and they're really putting a ton of like production value into what they're doing. And so it's going to be fun to see, you know, all the teams and what they do. Like last year, I really love the Los Angeles Chargers.

I think I watched that one like 20, 30 different times because they did like an anime based thing. I thought it was really well done and really unique. And so I'm excited to see like what teams bring to the table this year. Heck yeah. The NFL has, you know, they've put themselves in a position where they never sleep and everyone's paying attention to what they're doing even in the middle of the dead off season. It seems like they find a way to capture everyone's attention at all times.

So I'm excited. We do have some news though. Steve, some official breaking news as of this morning, it's been confirmed by the Sunday night football crew. The Detroit Lions will head to Arrowhead Stadium to take on the Kansas City Chiefs for the opener of the NFL season. Wow. This is a big time.

The Lions had zero primetime games last year for the, well, they ended up getting a flex Sunday night football game the last week of the season. Right. But when the schedule came out, they had zero primetime games on the schedule. And this is maybe an early indication that they have many. Yeah. They have to play the defending Super Bowl champs in their stadium the night they hang the banner. Yeah.

Woo! Talk about it like a way to potentially either crater or announce your rival as a team. Like this is a good, it's going to be like a huge measuring bar. And, you know, like if they. get toasted. I mean, the fan base is going to fall apart. But if they play well, they win or even keep it close, it's like, I mean, you could see the optimism rise even more.

Like even if they lose by three, I think you could see a fever dream amongst Lions fans and like the optimism of the season. For sure. It's, oh, dude, if they win, the expectations are actually going to be out of control. You and I were going to have to combat that. We're going to have to be fighting. They're not winning the Super Bowl guys.

Well, maybe not. It's certainly not. Even if they win, it's not like the announcement of, all right, start buying your tickets. Start buying your tickets for the Super Bowl type thing. Yeah. It is quite the invitation to the table. It's like the NFL's way of saying, hey, you guys, you guys earn this. Welcome to the conversation.

Lyons. Now, please don't lose by 30. Yeah. for the love of God, keep it close. I went back and looked at like the last 15 opening night games. Yeah. And it seems like what the NFL tries to do is find a either like an up and coming interesting team or like a pretty good team but not like a serious threat to beat the defending champs. Right.

They don't want the chiefs to lose that game. They're hanging a banner that night. Right. And so typically that's what they do. They never give them layups because they need it. They need it to be a good game. It is the opener of the season. but they usually give them a challenging opponent yet someone they should be.

And I think that's probably exactly what the Lions are for the Chiefs. Yeah, and it's a team. Obviously, the Chiefs, they are what they are in offense. And this is going to be like that big test of what does the remade deback room look like. What does this defense that, you know, at many times last year looked like they couldn't stop a Pop Warner offense? And so it'll be a great, like that'll be the great measuring bar for them to just kind of see where that defense is at. Is it what we think it is? Is it, you know, capable of holding or even, you know, competing with the Chiefs?

I think it's going to be, it's a fun, it's a fun opening game. I mean, it's, it's fun to, you know, see the Lions even being in a position like that. Bro, this game could be Houston versus Titans. and I would still think it was fun. It's opening night. We hadn't had football in a while. Yeah. But the fact that the Lions Chiefs just makes it so much better.

I do think to your point about the Lions' defense, if they were to catch the Chiefs in a good opportunity, it would probably be week one, especially based on the way the Chiefs have started the last few seasons, kind of slow. Yes. Yes. Lions are going to have a completely revamped defense. There's not going to be any tape really about what they're doing

or how these guys fit. Yep. If the Lions have a chance to beat the Chiefs, It probably is week one. Yeah. Yeah. Because like you said, I mean, it always kind of seems like Patrick Mahomes is, he's like, he revs up the car. And, you know, weeks, the first four, three, four weeks, he always seems to kind of like, it's not to the degree that it like is with or is, was with Tom Brady, you know, where if they flounder the first four weeks, it was like, well, trains off the rails.

Everything's falling apart. Tom Brady's terrible. But even last year, it was, you know, Mahomes was making mistakes in the beginning of the year. He was, you know, had some errant throws, making some decisions that you, like, kind of question was bailing out of, like, good pockets and getting himself into trouble. And, you know, same type of thing. It was like, well, I don't know. Patrick Mahomes plays like this. Where are the chiefs going to be?

And so, like you said, if Detroit's going to make a play as a team, like this is an opportunity. because you probably do get a Patrick Mahomes where he's always trying to do something different, always trying to kind of, he always kind of figures things out midseason a little bit more. And, yeah, could be, like you said, could be a chance for them to announce their arrival as a potentially impactful defense. Exactly. All right. So for right now, we're going to be doing a new series where we're looking at, the best position groups in the NFL.

Today we're going to be focusing on wide receivers. We're going to go through our top 10. Next week, though, we probably will take a minor break from that to micro-analyze the schedule because we're going to be nerdy about it and make stupidly bold predictions for no reason. Of course. Yeah, so we'll do that. We'll play to all the cliches. But for now, we're going to do wide receivers.

And then after next week, we'll come back with some more position groups. But let's kick it off, Steve. The way I did mine, I did do a one through 10. I gave everybody like a firm rank. But the more I got into this, the more I felt like there's actually tiers to discuss. Yeah. So I put together three tiers basically within the top 10. And I'm not necessarily super concerned with the order within the tier, if that makes sense.

You can make an argument for or against the team sliding to the top or bottom of the tier. Yeah. But I thought the tiers were important. So I don't know if you agree with that approach or not. Let's just get into it. Who's your number one team? I'm pretty firm on this. I will say that.

My number one, I had Seattle. Really? Yeah. So you are going to value, I can tell right now, you're going to value rookies higher than I am going to. I wouldn't even say rookies in general, but JSN, yes. Gotcha. Okay.

Like I'd there were probably two rookies that I valued high and JSN was one just because of what it what I think he brings at the table. I know like you were very heavy on it on what he can be as a receiver. And that like you know a lot of a lot of analysts, a lot of guys around the NFL kind of valued JSN as a slot only guy. But you and I kind of side with you on that that that he can be an outside and a slot guy. and I think that if he hits what I think he can be, that top three of Metcalf, Lockett, and Enjigma is, I mean, that's like with the way Seattle plays, that looks to me like a potential like almost three,

1,000-yard receivers. Yeah, so this is where some nuance comes into, because like, are we grading this just in a vacuum or are we looking at context of how a team deploys their players? Seattle doesn't use 11 personnel that much. They used 12 personnel a ton. Pete Carroll's talked about 12 personnel being their base set, which obviously the numbers say that's not true.

But to his point, though, they do play a crap ton of 12 personnel. Right. Does that, so I didn't knock them because of that. I'm just pointing that out that as good as I think JSN is in a huge addition. I don't know that they're even going to get the most out of him this year. I think when you listen to Pete Carol talk about JSN specifically in the press conference. It wasn't, he actually said specifically, we didn't draft him to play more 11 personnel.

When we do play 11 personnel, those plays have better results, which I found really interesting. And we know Pete Carroll is like the most stubborn coach in the NFL. He does not waver off of his plan or what he does. Yeah. He drafted another running back in the second round. So I do think 12 personnel running the ball is going. going to be their identity, but does that change the way I rank them? No, it doesn't. I, I ranked Seattle at number five and in my second tier. So I do view them very highly, just not quite

as highly as you, mostly because J.S.N's a rookie, and he saw us to prove it on the field. He hasn't played in the year. True. Tell them like it's getting a little old, and D.K. Metcalf, even though I think he is a very good receiver, I do think he's very limited also, and he has to be used a certain way. And there's game scripts where he just disappears because they can't use him the way they want to. And that's where my hope for them is that JSN comes in and kind of opens that up a little bit for them and kind of, because that was, like you said, that was what kind of hamstrung them at times last year was that they didn't have a third guy that could take some pressure off

of Metcalf and give them more one-on-one situations. Teams were able to, you know, kind of say like, all right, let Tyler Locker do what Tyler Lockett will do. And if we hold down Metcalf, then, okay, we've kind of, we've turned it into a one and a half dimensional team in a way where, like, they can run the ball and then they have a receiver and their tight ends weren't that, weren't that great. I mean, Fant didn't do all that much. And so, like, I'm hoping that JSN opens that up a little bit and frees up Metcalf to be

more of what he can be and more of. of a threat game in, game out. And, you know, like you said, I think tiers overall, I agree with that where, you know, I think while I say, while I put Seattle number one, I also think that that could, I think they, and for me, I think they stay at tier one. But, you know, it's, it could be mobile. But I do stand by that I think Seattle is, I like, I really like those top three. and I really like what Seattle could be with, you know,

the way they did kind of air the ball out last year a little bit more. And I hope that Pete Carroll kind of can see that a little bit. Yeah, I hear you. My number one, I went Miami. Tyree Kill is still the undisputed champ, the best receiver in the NFL to me, and I don't particularly think it's close. Yeah.

I think Jalen Waddle is also probably, the best number two in the league. And I don't think that's close. I think you can make an argument for Devante Smith and T. Higgins as other really good number twos. Yeah. I think those two combined provide the league the best one-two punch in the NFL.

And then when you look at the rest of their depth chart, Steve, they don't have any bad players. Braxton Barrios is a very solid slot option that can win in the short parts of the field. Good zone beater, good man-beater in certain looks. Cedric Wilson Guys, this was a dude who got like a three-year, $8 million a year contract a year ago. He just didn't get any targets this year because he's playing behind Tyree Kill and Jail Lotto, but he's a good player.

Really good gadget player can do a lot of different things with run-after catchability. Then Eric Azuncoma was a player they drafted last year that I'm very high on. This is a Debo Samuel type player. He's got a little Jawan Jennings to his game as well, the big slot from San Francisco. obviously Mike McDaniel having that background. I think at some point we'll maybe look to get him involved in the past game. And then Chosen Anderson is like they're five or six. And I know everyone thinks Robbie Anderson's cooked.

And I would say that that is true from the standpoint of like, you're not going to rely on this guy to play 700 snaps for you anymore. Right. But he definitely still gives you a legit deep threat option. And he's their fifth or six receiver. So who cares really? The depth here is insane. plus they have the top the one-two punch in the NFL in my opinion.

So for that reason, I put Miami number one. I had Miami number two. And again, I think I just valued where Seattle's third threat was compared to Miami. I thought that their third guy in J-S-N is quite a bit of step above of what Miami has. potentially as a third guy. And so I think that that was where the differential came in for me. And as you said it with Chosen Anderson, I honestly forgot that he changed his name.

I saw that name and it took me a minute to figure out who that was again. But it would be, I mean, it'll be interesting. Like think about throwing out a Tyree kill, Jalen Waddle, Chosen Anderson, 11 personnel and then just running four verts, what do you do as a defense? Prey? You run and hide. Yeah, do you, I mean, you just,

you play your safety's 35 yards deep. That's what I like about their depth. They don't have studs at, you know, at 3, 4, 5, 6 necessarily, but they have guys that all do something really well. Braxen Bears is a legit slot weapon. Chosen Anderson's a legit deep target. Wilson and Edzumama are legit rack players.

So it's like, you know, if for whatever reason Hill or Waddle were hurt, it's like they, they know they can at least manufacture production or roles from those guys based on their skill sets, which I really like. These aren't just guys that, you know, they're just average and kind of do a little bit of everything. Yeah. So, all right. So they were your two. So let's talk about my two then. My two was the Cincinnati Bengals. Yeah.

I think Chase. It's like if you made a tier list of the top. receivers in football, I think it's probably four deep. Tyreek, Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, and Devante Adams. So Chase is in there. I've already mentioned Higgins is probably the other really, really good number two in the NFL where it's like, he's probably a one on most teams. He just happens to play on a team where he's not.

Yeah. And then he's really good. Tyler Boyd has obviously tried and true. I do think he's not as good as he once was, but he's, you know, he's still a pretty good player a really good number three and they drafted charlie jones who is the guy that i absolutely love if he replaces tyler boyd this year that offense gets better to me because he's got a lot more juice than uh than tyler boy does yeah yeah since he was number three for me nice and again so like right in that that first tier of group of wide receiver rooms sweet yeah i agree Tyler boy he

He's a, Tyler Boyd's a useful player. He is getting older. He's moving, he is he? He's not over 30 yet, is he? I think he is. So, like, yeah, I mean, I think with most, with a lot of NFL players outside of quarterback 30 kind of is where a kind of a cliff can happen or a plat, or not necessarily plateau, but just like, you start to see it falling off.

And so that's what I think you could start, you'll start to see. And you did start to see with Tyler Boyd. He lost a little bit of his effect. in the middle of the field last year. He was a little bit more banged up last year. And so that... He's only 28, actually. Oh, wow.

Okay. But still, like, again, I think you saw it start, you saw him start to move on the other side of the ascension. You know, it's, it's coming down on the downhill for him. Theoretically, that could change. But like you said, I mean, Jamar Chase and T. Higgins are, especially with Joe Burrow and how that offense knows what they have in chasing Higgins and how like how they can they put the ball in their put them in jump ball situations and they know what they can be I mean that's they easily like they easily could be argued as a know as the number one team they easily could be argued as

you know number two for me it's it's you're arguing minor differences between these groups a little bit yeah yeah and that's my top tier my top tier my top was, oh, sorry, we only did. Yeah, we need your number three. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I'm confusing myself. So since he was your three, so my three was the Philadelphia Eagles. A.J. Brown, Devante Smith, obviously provide a one, two point.

Oh, I meant to put Brown in that top tier of receivers, by the way. Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Yeah, Brown is probably my two or three. you can argue Jemar chase ahead of him, but I like Tyreek. And then I think AJ Brown is just so many different things as well that he's, you know, he's pretty scheme proof. He's pretty foolproof. There's not really a defensive scheme to take him away, take him out of the game.

So, yeah. I love Brown. I do think the Eagles lack depth, though, so I struggled with that a little bit. Yeah. Once you get past Devante, it's pretty tough. But I think Brown and Devante might be the. you know, they're probably the third best duo in the NFL. So,

Quas Watkins has some speed. I've been told by some insiders that they are really, really high on Zakias. And they think he brings them a legit, you know, element from the slot and maybe even a vertical element from the slot too. So I think Zichias ends up starting for them. I think he's their wide receiver three this year. But he's a decent player for sure.

But the depth is definitely concerning. If A.J. Brown or Smith go down. I mean, we saw A.J. Brown was banged up at times last year, and they ended up having to run the ball a lot. Yeah. And kind of what you said was Seattle, you know, them not having as potent of a third guy in the room, it's okay because they're not, they run a little bit more heavy personnel. They're okay running a little bit more of like two tight end, things like that.

I think that they, like you said, AJ Brown and Devonsa Smith are going to be the guys that are going to be on the field all the time. And I do like Zakias. I watching through Atlanta film, he pops as a route runner every once in a while and he can work the middle of the field and he can work as a deep threat.

So he's a guy that could potentially be more noticeable as he gets a little bit more room to operate with, you know, in Atlanta, there wasn't in his time that he was there. it wasn't conducive to him being, you know, popping off as a potential third threat because they barely had their one and two threat go off at all. So like he's into a completely different situation that could allow him to show a little bit more of his chops as a route runner in the slot and things like that. Where did you have Philly ranked?

I had Philly at five. Okay. So, yeah, my top tier was Miami Sinty and Philly and Philly. really. And then my next tier of teams is five deep. So who's your number four? My number four is the Los Angeles Chargers. Okay.

This is, unfortunately, it's looking at it on paper, assuming they stay healthy, which is a big thing for them because Keenan Allen has been hurt, Mike Williams has been hurt. but this was the other, Quentin Johnson was the other rookie that I kind of valued because of the situation,

because of the room that he's in, I think that he elevates this receiving group and this offense to something even better than what it has been. I think that it allows for the offense to open up even more. And it allows, you know, with Kellyn Moore coming in, I think they're going to run more unique route concepts. I think they're going to run a little.

a more or just a better passing offense than, you know, running stick concept on what seemed like 50% of their passing plays. I think that like Josh Palmer being pushed to the like the fourth guy or even, you know, fighting with Guy in as like the fourth, fourth fifth guy. He's more useful there because I think he is a useful player. But he, he was not a number three.

He's not a guy that you want out there out of 11 personnel all the time. And I think that being able to push him back and replace him with, like, Quentin Johnson and having three, you know, really big guys that all can win at the catch point. I think I like Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Quentin Johnson and what they can be. And like I said, I think Josh Palmer offers something as a fourth and Guyton offers like, you know, he was their, he was their deep threat guy last year and being able to utilize. him or have him less focused on and in as a deep guy you know potentially just i think their offense opens up more with the addition of quentin johnson so i i liked them at that i like them

at the fourth spot right on i have the chargers in this tier i have them at sixth um you know enough can't be said about keenan allen and his consistency the guy is year and year out one of the best separators in the league he's going to win routes consistently whether it's zone or man He's a security blanket for Justin Herbert. He is pretty limited dynamically, though. So is Mike Williams. Mike Williams isn't much of a playmaker. If he is making plays,

it's in really walkie, contested catch situation. He doesn't necessarily want to force the ball into, like they have to add to. He's been their only deep threat. This is why I love the Quentin Johnson selection so much because they desperately needed playmaking. Yes. They get a receiver who's phenomenal after the catch.

They needed that rack element. in their game. Yes. Strictly relied on Austin Echler to give them that. And it's tough when you're throwing them the ball behind the line of scrimmage. So Quentin Johnson gives them a legit rack element and a legit downfield speed element. That playmaking ability really elevates this entire unit. And then you're kicking Josh Palmer down a spot which helps.

Palmer should be the Keenan Allen contingency plan. If Allen goes down, I think Palmer can play that role decently, but he doesn't do anything else well. So, you know, you want Palmer as a result. reserve there and as more of an insurance policy than a, you know, a big-time contributor that's playing 500 plus snaps a year. And then Jalen Guyton again, you know, more speed on the bench. So adding Quentin Johnson kind of really helps the whole unit as a whole. And I do, I do like what they've done. And, you know, like I said, these tiers, they're kind of, you can change the teams in and out. You know, you could definitely make the argument to put them at four for me as well.

But I like them. My number four team is. go ahead. I was just to say you made a great point of moving, now you move Echler targets to the fourth option instead of the third option. Running back targets are traditionally not, you know, not as valuable. Eckler, you know, Echler takes it a step above. I think, you know, he's unique in that. But, you know, being able to shift that down a level and have an actual guy that you can get valuable targets in as a third guy like that is a, that's going to be, I think that's going to be a huge element to their offense. Agreed. My fourth team was the Minnesota Vikings. Again, this comes down to, you know, the way they use their personnel, Jefferson being so freaking good. I mean, dude, they had basically nothing at receiver last year. Like Adam Thielen's a corpse.

KJ. Osborne is not a two. He's a three. Yep. And Jefferson was getting doubled a ton. They were rolling coverage as his direction, and he still produced at an insanely high level. They get Jordan Addison, and this is actually more of a needle mover for me than Quentin Johnson and Jackson Smith and Jigba, because no receiver in this draft class is better and more effective at beating single coverage with route running and separation than Jordan Addison is. Yeah. And he will never see a double his entire career playing across from Justin Jefferson.

Nope. And so you're just asking him to go do what he's done at the college level, which is shred single-class. coverage, whether that's zone, whether it's off zone, he has the chops to beat it, whether it's press man, he can beat it. I absolutely love this draft pick, and I don't typically rate rookies this high, but in this scenario specifically, they needed to get a guy opposite Jefferson that can win, and this is just going to elevate the rest of the team. This elevates KJ. Osborne, because Osborne was having to do things he's not good at last year,

because Thielen was pretty much dead. I really, really like the Jordan Addison fit here. And this ultimately comes down to that plus Justin Jefferson just being so damn good. If, you know, the depth here is still an issue like it was for Philly. Like if one of those two guys goes down, they're back to not having a good unit. But, you know, in a vacuum, I'll take what they have over a lot of teams. And for that reason, they're my number four. Yeah.

Did you have the Vikings in your top 10? I did. I did because I mean, I think you'd be, you'd be lying if even without anything. Just Justin Jefferson himself has to put them in a top 10. I had them at number eight. Number eight. All right. I can live with it.

Just because I. KJ. Osborne is a little bit. I don't know, like, I don't, I'm not that bought into him. if we were talking past catching groups instead of just receivers it might be it would probably be a little bit different but i just all over the mix yeah yeah kj osborne you know like you said hopefully it opens up a little bit like you said adam thielan was running track meets out there every single game he was just there as whatever he was and that's you know that was fine and it didn't really it didn't move the

needle at all. But yeah, I think I couldn't in good faith not put Minnesota in the top 10 because Justin Jefferson is a monster of his own. Agreed. All right. So you had Philly as your fifth team. Yep. Talked about in length. I had Seattle as my fifth team. Yep. I had the Chargers as my sixth team, which we've already talked about. So lay out your sixth team for the people, Steve. My sixth team is The Washington Commanders. All right. I will say now, we've unveiled at least six on both sides,

that you've unveiled seven teams. And yet we, so far, no discrepancies here as far as not having one of these teams in the top ten. Because I have the Washington commanders at seven. So we are pretty close there. Break it down for me. Yeah. Well, I mean, McLaurin, he's, I think he's, you know, we were kind of listing the tier one of just like number one receivers.

McLoran's right there at the top of tier two, almost tier one. And I think he's a great route runner. He wins at the catch point. He can completely change defense's game plan. He's perennially just very good. He's bloody good at everything, bro. So good.

I mean, and it's, it always stinks that he's been stuck in Washington with the quarterback situations that they've had And he hasn't had just the opportunity to really, you know, announce himself. I mean, if you're as a cat for, I should say for casual NFL fans, casual NFL fans, they know the name. But like, he's not a guy that you're going to go out of your way and watch. You're not going to go out of your way and watch the Washington commanders at any point, really.

But McCorn is so good. And I really like John Dodson. I think that if he's completely healthy this year and stays healthy, like he's another guy that really. was he proved himself as a route runner. He really was able to work in a lot of different areas of the field and showed himself to be a pretty versatile receiver. And then Curtis Samuel is, he's a useful player. And he's a guy that he has speed.

He's, you know, he was used as a lot as a gadget guy. And again, he's another guy that health has kind of come in from time to time. But if he stays healthy, like that's like those three McLaurin, Dodson, Samuel, and then even into their fourth with Diamy Brown, like, that's just a lot of, a lot of speed and a lot of good route runners that can put teams in a lot of, like, defenses and a lot of disadvantage, disadvantageous positions. Like the mat, like, they're a match of nightmare. They don't have a lot of height that's, you know, but it's all a lot of guys that are like good route runners and can win in space. And that's, I think even like bringing in. Jacobi Bressett or if they go with Sam Howell, whoever they end up going with, I think, is a step up from what they had last year. And like, it's just guys that you can get the ball at any point, at any area of the field because of how they, like, they can win in one-on-one situations. You're not really going to be in a spot where you can double or really key in on anyone because all of these guys are able to make plays, especially in the intermediate of the field in the middle of the field.

like Terry McClorne's arguably one of the best receivers in the middle of the field, in my opinion. Like the way he runs dig routes, the way he runs crossing routes, the way he is able to set defenders up to win in the middle of the field. I think that I really like the receiving room. Yeah, agreed. So McCorrin, the casual fan has no idea how good he is because he's been just saddled with awful quarterback play his entire career. I don't unfortunately think it's going to get much better this year. I think Brissette is definitely an upgrade. I think Howell could be an upgrade as well. It's still not what you want for an elite level receiver. No. Even a Kurt Cousins level quarterback would make this dude explode.

Like, his number would get crazy if he had if he just had a Kirk Cousins level quarterback or Jared Goff even. That's like the one thing of like him as a number one receiver. Like, he, by his own team, he doesn't get treated like the number one receiver he should be. It should be minimum 10 targets a game, every game, without a doubt. But, like, it's not his fault. He wins constantly on Phil. Like, constantly he is winning matchups on film. It's just that he hasn't had quarterbacks that consistently look his way for whatever reason.

Yeah. He's a filthy route runner, filthy release game. He's really, really, really. freaking good at the catch point too for a small he's not small but he's not big either yeah for an average size receiver he is disgusting at the catch point um also one thing i love about terry mcclorn is he is the only receiver in the NFL that is good that claps the football he doesn't deal with drops and i don't know how because he literally looks like an alligator trying to catch the ball yeah it is so weird his catch technique is so weird it's so unorthodox but it works for him i guess

He must have the best hand-eye coordination of all time. Right. He will literally clap a fastball coming right at his face without any hitches. He won't bobble it. He won't miss time it. Nothing. It's insane. And you know what I think really helps him on contested catches?

And this is going to, I'm like, the scouting community is going to be just so pissed that I'm saying this. So good defensive backs, they don't watch the ball necessarily in the air. So sometimes you just can't get your head around if you're in phase. Yeah. They watch the receiver's hands. Yep. Because McLaurin doesn't have a normal catch technique, they have no idea when the ball's arriving because he's not, he doesn't greet the ball like a normal receiver does.

He claps it. So it's like a snap. It's like an instant thing where he just boom, claps the ball out of the air. It's so weird. And I'm telling you right now, I do think that helps him in contested situations because he's smaller. Like he doesn't have a lot of body mass, not the most play strength in the world either. but I think that catch technique really stops DBs from getting into his hands

and in timing when the ball gets there for their strike. I think it's a fascinating thing I want to go through every receiver now and chart their catch technique and see how it affects them at the catch point. Yeah. And then jumping off of that, I think that John Dodson absolutely has a chance to kind of announce himself as a legitimate number two threat in the NFL. I think that we started to see it at times last year. Like he had quite a few games where he kind of blew up.

but I like Routrunner. Yeah. And that's and that's what Washington's built off of is they just have all of these guys who are like all the same height, but they are just so good at setting up their at setting up defenders and winning at the top of their routes. Not to spend like an hour on Washington,

but a sneaky thing here too, by the way. Sam Howell wins that job is Dianney Brown. Howell and Brown connection in college was unbelievable chemistry, dude. Like, I mean, anytime Howell needed a big play, he found Diami Brown and Diami Brown was out there making plays. So if Brown's ever going to break out, it would not surprise me if it happened to be with Sam Howell at quarterback. Yeah, and he seemed to be kind of stuck in purgatory with that team. Like he never really, like it came along at times last year. You saw it pop at times.

He had a couple games here and there where he kind of made an appearance. And like you said, I think that he could. He's really raw. He was really raw coming out. That North Carolina offense sucks for developing receivers, to be honest. He was basically vertical threat only when he came out, and I still think Washington's kind of treating him that way. Hopefully, though, he can learn from McLaurin Dodds. Even Curtis Samuel has some wiggle to his route running.

Brown can take anything from those guys that could really elevate his game. But, all right, let's move on. Let's go. So my seven was Washington. Your six was Washington. So throw out your seven. My number seven is the Dallas Cowboys. All right.

We're still in the same tier. All right. We agree way more than I thought we would. They are my number eight. Number eight. Okay. So I'm like, well, I'm just like leading the pack a little bit on some things. But yeah, I think that bringing Brandon Cooks in to this room elevates it to another level.

Like it gives them a legitimate outside receiver where now I think you can't like you can actually put cooks and gallows. and Gallup on the outside and have CD Lamb operate pretty specifically from the slot. Yeah, I agree. And I even like, cooks can play in the slot too. So like they have looks where they like CD on the outside. They're not going to lose much when they do that because cooks can also function from the slot. So those two guys having such versatility. Like last year, Noah Brown was slot only.

Yeah. And that full CD to play on the outside way more than he should have. Yes. With Thook, it's like they have a lot more alignment versatility. So I do, I love that aspect. Yeah. Like people expected him to be good last year coming off of a late season ACL tear. I don't know why people keep doing this.

We did this with DJ Chark last year too. DJ Chark did not look like the same player post week 11. But honestly, he looked like a totally different guy. And I think you're going to see a similar spike from Gallup this year. Now, he's where he should be as the team's number three. receiver now. Yes. But I do think his game is going to get back to where he was really good, which is he's a

ball winner, contest a catch, body control on the sideline, deep threat, a guy you can, you know, take shot plays with. So I think that I think that with like Gallup, it's in it. It's actually you see with a lot of receivers, it's and or even guys coming back from injury, we're getting more exposure to that. Like where you see them coming back early and now you expect them to immediately be back at their peak. And that's not the case.

For receivers, too, that really rely on leaping and cutting and body control, I just, I think it's really tough for them because they're, they need to use their, those knees to explode, you know? Yeah. It's not like other positions where it's not, you know, your game's not as explosive. So. And then, I had one more point about Dallas. What was it?

Oh, you know, they got like Jalen Tolbert. He was a third round pick last year. Now, he's shown us nothing and everything we've, heard is that he's just not not a guy yeah but i'm not running a guy off based on one year of tape yeah he develops a little bit and he can give them some depth there especially for gallop because gallop's the injury risk of the group if you can give you know a nice backup role to gallop i think that could really help that offense too a little bit of insurance but also keep reps off of gallop's body um you know maybe maybe he gets down to like the 450 to 500 snap range and you're letting

Tolbert play 250 to 300. I think that could be a big win for them keeping that unit functioning at high level all year. One more quick point, because I'll probably put this, I'll probably post this on Twitter, but I was going through watching just receiver film. And it was the Cowboys against the Bears, C.D. Lamb, he's so savvy on crossing routes. He's so much fun to watch run that route specifically. where a lot throughout the game they were having him do crossing sit routes where you know you have him fake across like run to start running a crossing around

and kind of sit in the middle of the field and set yourself up there. And he'd run it a couple times in a row. And then he was one-on-one man-to-man with a guy. And he hesitated. He did this great hesitation move in the middle of the field. And it absolutely froze the defender to where he created, I mean, he created, like eight yards of separation. It was crazy.

And it was in the red zone. It was like they were inside the probably 20 yard line. It was either 20, 25 yard line. And just the way he created separation, it was so cool to watch because it was such a smart move. It was the smallest little hitch in his step. But it completely froze the guy to where he got flat footed and it allowed him to create like eight yards of separation.

It was a really fun route to watch. And like that's just what he offers is, you know, know him operating in the middle of the field, him operating out of the slot is where he's supposed to be in it. You know, his targets out of the slot were much more valuable than his targets on the outside. Yeah, we call that a sit and shake. It's a great route. Kyle Shanahan's offense uses that route quite a bit as well. All right, moving on.

So your eight was the Vikings. My eight was the Cowboys. I'm going to throw out my number nine team. And this is a new tier for me. So the Cowboys at 8 were the end of that middle tier. Now I think you're getting close to the honorable mention range where there's probably realistically five to six teams here that could compete for the nine and ten spots.

But I went with my gut here. Number nine, and I'm guessing you don't have this team in your top ten. This is where I think I said pre-call, I'm going to be a little different. All right. You'll be pleasantly surprised. I don't know. I went with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Okay, yeah, they did not make it into my top ten.

I think top to bottom, this team has a lot of talent. Deonti Johnson, like Terry McLaurin, is one of the most underrated receivers in the NFL. He can do literally just about anything. You can manufacture touches to him in the short parts of the field and get him in the open space for some yak. He can just straight up beat man coverage on the outside as an ISO receiver. He can win downfield. He can play in the slot, although they never, literally never use him that way. Never.

Literally pin him to the boundary, even though he's 5-10, but whatever. It works for him. He's freaking phenomenal, though. Really, really good receiver. George Pickens going into year two. I expect him to take a step forward, but he's a legit, deep threat. I think this receiving core in general was hamstrung by Kenny Pickett last year. As Kenney-Kinckon started to heat up towards the end of the year, these guys started producing a little bit more.

They bring in Alan Robinson, and Alan Robinson, the notorious Steve hot take of all, offensive player of the year candidate last year, which did not man, but that's okay. I still think he can play a little bit, and as a three, I think he's going to give Kenny Pickett, that short to intermediate big body possession receiver

he's going to need to take the next step. And then just depth. They got Calvin Austin and Gunner Ozelowski. Calvin Austin is, he's every bit of Tank Dell, as Tank Dell was this year. I think Calvin Austin was a better, prospect. I still believe in him a ton. He can win all three levels of the field, but mostly at his

size, you're going to use him in the short parts of the field as a slot receiver. He's got elite speed, elite run after catchability. I think he's going to bring a lot to that offense this year. And then Gunner, you know, these, anytime you need to fill like a fifth, sixth receiver slot, Steve, just find yourself a slot guy who can run routes that can play special teams. And that's what they've done with Gunner. Is he, is he sexy? Does he move the needle a ton? No, but he'll be productive if he's on the field. Those guys just are. Yeah, Pittsburgh didn't make my top 10, like I said, but I think they have value in the room. I am just low on them, and it's not even the receiver's fault. I just don't like how

Matt Canada deploys them. I just like Deontay Johnson should have such more of a versatile route tree than he gets. They just, like you said, they just underutilize him so much. And it, like, at times it's just, like, they just, they don't give him enough opportunities or enough chances to win in routes because, like, half the game, it feels like he's running the same three routes. And so I think that was where a little bit of my pessimism set in with them. I think, like, like you said, as just like players themselves, I think that they do have

a very versatile room and they have the ability to elevate Kenny Pickett to help him develop. So I can see where I see the path to how they got into your top 10. Yeah. And that's an overly nerd out here, but there could be some really interesting camp battles as well. Because for whatever reason, the Steelers have decided they're going to collect everyone's projects over the year at receiver. They've got like three former third round picks that didn't work out on other teams. They got Anthony Miller.

they got Miles Boykin They got Oh my God, who's the other one? There's another one though I got to look I got to look it up because it's going to drive me crazy If I don't get it out of my mind Does Fitzpatrick

So these receivers that were over drafted They've kind of collected them all And they're just going to let these guys compete for a roster spot And I like that approach though Steve We're talking back end the roster guys. Why not? These guys all came with high expectations and high pedigrees. See if one of them can break out in your system.

So anyways, that's an unnecessary deep view there. Because chances of those guys making a difference are slim than none. I just still think it's kind of a cool approach to roster construction on the back end. Yeah, and I think Anthony Miller still has some stands out there. There was a point there where it looked like. like he could be a legitimate receipt like a legitimate threat as a receiver and then it just kind of fell apart in Chicago but I bet he still has a decent amount of fans out there that believe in him all right who's your number nine number nine for me was Jacksonville oh my okay I didn't consider

them but let's hear it I mean I consider them as in I did like I looked at their team I just didn't put them in and I think I I can see why though yeah I I think that Zay, like, starting with the guys that were there last year, Zay Jones, Christian Kirk were their, you know, their mainstays last year, the guys that contributed. I really, really like what Christian Kirk was able to do out of the slot last year. I think that Arizona and Cliff Kingsbury should be put in jail for the way they utilized him in Arizona because he completely showed himself as a threat out of the slot in Jacksonville.

He's, again, he's another guy that is a very good route runner, very good in the middle of the field. and offers a threat. And Zay Jones, he kind of came alive at the end of the year. And I think that he built up some chemistry with Trevor Lawrence and showed that he can be a threat. He still has that deep threatability to him. He's a very useful receiver. And I think that him now being the number three

and then bringing in Kelvin Ridley, who obviously had a year off last year. And then the year before that, he was hurt for half the year. He basically quit football. Right. And so hopefully. Games on left the team.

Yeah, that was it. And so hopefully he comes in with a renewed passion for the game or renewed, you know, just a revival of him, an ability to kind of, you know, be upset about what happened last year, even though, you know, gambling, that's your own fault. But still, you know, create the chip where you can. And I think he's a good, like, he's a very valuable receiver. Like, when he was on the field, in Atlanta, he was a legitimate threat. And he really showed himself as like starting to ascend

to like a bottom of the second tier, mid second tier receiver. And I'm really hoping that in a room that like, like I said, I like Christian Kirk. I like Zay Jones. I think Calvin Ridley can can announce himself as again, a number one receiver in the NFL and give him give that team a chance. And I like Jamal Agnew as just a gadget guy, deep threat, kind of get him the ball and let him go. I think he has a little bit of value there. And they unleashed him a little bit. And then Parker Washington has a chance to be a late round guy that can contribute on that offense. And so he sucks.

I think there's a chance with him. I like him. I like a little bit of his game. And I think that he could. provide some depth there. Even if he is, he's the fifth, like even if he is there at the fifth receiver, you know, I think he has a chance to at least, you know, maybe even give you like a couple hundred snaps, like 200 snaps.

But, and that might even be way above. And this year probably isn't his year. But again, I just like what Jacksonville could be there. I like Calvin Ridley. I really, really like Christian Kirk. And I think that he came along really well last year. And we could, I think we could see him as one of the. the more premier slot threats in the NFL this year.

Like I think he started to show that ability last year. And I think that he could really come along this year as he's built up that chemistry with Christian Kirk, or with Trevor Lawrence. And, you know, like I said, Calvin Ridley opening up that field a little bit and taking some of the focus off of Christian Kirk in the slot.

I like what they can, I like what they can be. And I like the potential that that is there in the room. Yeah, all fair points. The only reason I didn't consider Jacksonville for this is just, We haven't seen Calvin Reddy play in basically two years. While I'm rooting for the kid, I hope he, you know,

I hope he bounces back in the big way. I just wasn't willing to plant my flag on him being the same guy at this point. Yeah, and that's totally fair. It could completely fall apart from underneath me. And, you know, I'm totally willing and willing to accept that outcome. But as like, again, looking at it on paper in May, if I think if I

if I think Calvin Ridley can be what he can be I think that this can be this is a top 10 receiving room awesome 10 I'll go I'll go first

Las Vegas Raiders who my 10 I just couldn't leave Devante Adams off of a top 10 list he's just too good even if the supporting cast isn't great you know you're looking at Jacobi Myers, Hunter Renfro, those aren't bad players.

They're just sort of limited in what they do, but they're not bad players at all. So I think Adams, he is as true of a number one as you're going to get. He's in that top five, top tier of best receivers in the NFL. So him alone elevates this to a top 10 team, in my opinion. Jacobi Myers, Hunter Renfro can both play in the slot. I think they're going to rely on Jacobi Myers to play a little bit more outside the New England did, which is going to be interesting because I don't really think he, gives them a lot of vertical juice, but he will win in the short parts of the field.

So, yeah. I do, I do like this group, though. I'm just curious to see how they, how it all works together. Yeah, and that was what kept them out of the top 10. I mean, it, like you said, it kind of pained me to keep Adams out of the top 10 because Adams is, he's, you know, he is who he is. He's one of the best receivers in the game. But for, yeah, for me, it came down to who's,

their number two like Myers and renfro are kind of this like not the same player but they operate in the from the same spot and so it just i like i didn't the upside wasn't totally there for me and that was what kind of concerned me with them they were i mean if i had to put them they're probably they're probably right there at like 12 13 even maybe even 11 like they're right there but sure it just came down to who's who's the other out who's the who are you going to put on the outside at number two and rely on so um who is your 10 10 i actually as we as we've been talking and we talked about it pre-show i threw them in there and it was the denver broncos okay and we kind of talk yeah we kind of talked about a pre-show

of that's like there i don't know if there's a group that's deeper than them to their fifth receiver Yeah, you just look on paper from one to five. I don't think any team has more receiver talent, like spread out across five players than Denver does. Right. And so like, I got any of it to work yet. And then it's pretty, you know,

you're projecting and hoping that bringing in Sean Payton, having a little bit of a different offensive system, hoping that Russell Wilson is not, not the absolute shell of a man that he showed that he was last year, that the team, like, the room has legitimate juice, Judy, Sutton, Tim Patrick, Marvin Mims, KJ. Hamler. Like, KJ. Hamler being at number five, he's a legitimate deep threat and a legitimate, you know, a legitimate weapon that you can utilize in that offense. And so I just, I would be remiss not to mention them because I do think that they have so much talent. Well, they may

not have like their bona fide number one guy who's you know winning every down in down out that you can rely on i think that you know as a whole they have an opportunity to be a really really legitimate room and a team that like like i said i if russell wilson if assuming and hoping for their sake that last year was an anomaly brought on by just kind of just a bad situation with the coaching and overall a bad offensive system and injuries popping up here and there like i just it's it's a good room of like you got you've got three number twos and if marvin minns announces himself and really shows out to be what a lot of analysts and like a lot of people think he could potentially be

potentially have like four number two receivers on the team yep a lot of varied skill sets as well. They've got some possession type receivers. They got some route runners, some speedsters. So I definitely like the compilation of parts there. They just got to get production out of this unit now. Obviously, the trade rumors of Judy and Sutton are, you know, concerning as well. But it is what it is.

For right now, they're on the Denver Broncos, and I still think they can both play. I think Judy's best football is definitely ahead of him. Yes. I've got a rough go of it so far. lot of that's QB play. I didn't pay attention a whole lot late in the season this year, but I know his first two years in the league, when I went back and watched the tape,

I could not believe how often this guy was open and just not throwing the football, which is he was doing the same things he was doing at Alabama, very well for Denver, just wasn't getting the football. So I don't know how to rectify that. I don't know how they get it right, but they need to because they got a lot of talent.

Yeah, and I mean, Jerry, Judy, he pops up for like meet you and Chris and I like Chris has mentioned it a couple times and so is Scott Barrett but like when we look at the splits between yards per route run against zone coverage and yards per route run against man coverage. Judy was an absolute monster against man coverage. Like he was like breaking the chart to the point where like he just like it was absurd. He in you know like you said he gets open often. and it's just that apparently nobody can ever find him. Yeah. Yep.

Well, hopefully the Sean Payton offense will do him a lot of favors. So, all right, Steve, let's get out of here. We've spent an hour talking receivers. We'll be back next week with a nerdy schedule show, probably. If we have time, maybe we'll throw in some position talk as well. I don't know for some of these other positions that our listeners probably I don't care as much about, like edge and detackle. Maybe we don't need to go 10 deep.

We can go 5 deep. Yeah. So with that said, maybe we squeeze a position group in next week. Maybe not, though. You'll have to listen to find out. I don't know. Schedule release could go a while. That's going to be so much fun to talk about.

Yeah, well, and I'm more excited just to see all the ridiculous hot takes that get thrown out there. Oh, yeah. I mean, my favorite, I think, like, schedule release, I love the time of year because it also leads to all the fans writing out the schedule on paper and how no team is getting less than 10 wins. Yep. I love it. Or it's, they don't always predict 10 wins, but they'll say, you know, a legitimate pathway here

for 10 wins. Yeah. Floors at like six, but I see a pathway to 12. Oh, and our arrival just happens to have in my. opinion a very difficult schedule compared to us so that favors us as well the mental gymnastics we'll go through to try to feel good sometimes you just have to embrace the suck if your team's not good it's a suck year it's okay yeah it's better it's in you know some of the blue blood obviously some of the blue blood teams it's hard to swallow a little bit more

than it is for some of the teams that are used to being near the bottom but it's a great time a year. The NFL does it so well with like two weeks of draft talk, then boom, schedule release. And then you're going to get two weeks of that, and then boom, you're getting into mini camps. And then you get time out of that. Like, it's so perfectly spaced out. I love it. Yep. For sure.

All right. We're out of here. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform. And come join the roster at FantasyPoint.com.

We're going to