Fantasy Football Daily - Wild Card Recap + Where Do the Losers Go From Here? | NFL First Read

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Welcome to First Read, your go-to podcast for the latest in NFL analysis and insights. Join hosts Brett Whitefield and Joe Marino as they break down "Wild Card Recap + Where Do the Losers Go From Here?." Whether you're a fantasy football enthusiast, a die-hard fan, or just looking to stay informed on all things NFL, "First Read" has you covered. Tune in for expert opinions, detailed breakdowns, and engaging discussions every week. Don't miss out on the ultimate NFL podcast experience! Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheJoeMarino Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off of your subscriptions Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Check out The Waiver Wire - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/the-waiver-wire-week-5#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When planning for life's most important moments, sometimes the hardest part is simply knowing where to start. That's why we're here to help. When you pre-plan and prepay a celebration of life with us, every detail will be handled with simplicity and professionalism, giving you the peace of mind that you've done all you can today to remove any burden from your loved ones tomorrow. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. The Dignity Memorial brand name is used to identify a network of licensed funeral cremation and cemetery providers owned and operated by affiliates of Service Corporation International. First read. We are your first read, the film and analytics podcast featuring Joe Marino of Lockdown and myself, Brett Whitefield, the C.O of Fantasy Points. This podcast is powered by the Fantasy Points Data Suite. Let's get after it. Wild card weekend in the books, Joe. We saw some playoff football this week. How are you, sir? I'm good, man. And then there were eight, right? This is like my favorite week is the divisional round. It's the best week.

We weed through, you know, you weed through some of these teams. Like, thanks for Clemmon. Appreciate it. Thanks for checking that box that you made it to the postseason. But you weren't ready for the big dogs. You know, I think we saw that across the board with a lot of teams. And now we get to the division around.

It's the best weekend and football, in my opinion. And I'm excited, man. I'm excited to get into this with you. I got some fun choices for champs and chumps. I know that you do as well. and we get to focus in on like really good teams. I feel like throughout the course of season later on, it's like, all right, who's eliminated?

Where are they picking in the draft? We got meaningful football left to go, you know? And so I decided to break it down with you, my guy. Yeah, today we're going to be, it's basically preview centric or sorry, review centric. Champs and jumps will be review oriented, obviously. Then we're going to get into the games and why the teams that lost, lost basically.

What is there, what is that one thing that they need to improve on this? to make sure this doesn't happen to him again. And then if we have some time, Joe, we'll get into coaching staff. But let's start with champs and chumps. Who wants to tee off first? This is always a... Let's start on a high note. All right.

I feel like we got a lot of downer conversations to be had today. But I want to offer my champ of the week. And I think this is kind of really the biggest story of Wild Card weekend, in my opinion. And that's the Washington commanders of my champ in particular being Dan Quinn. 12 and 5, Brett, and a playoff win already on this resume for 2024, doing it with a rookie quarterback and respectfully a bottom 10 roster. They have nowhere to go but up when it comes to building this football team around Jaden Daniels. And they were 7 and 2.

They fell to 7 and 5. They dropped 3 in a row. Had a bad loss to Dallas, a Dallas team that looked lifeless at the time. And I remember having conversations with you. and saying, look, whatever happens the rest of the way for Washington, this has been a successful year, right? I said that. Well, you know what they said?

Put it on the bulletin board, Joe. Thank you. We're going to respond. We're going to win five in a row. We're going to get a playoff win against the bucks. And look, the bucks are the Ben there done that team. They won that division four years in a row. They're the playoff tested team.

We saw every other team that was playoff tested against a team that wasn't, Smoke them. Yep. Not Washington. My hat tip to Mr. Dan Quinn and what's being built in Washington. Talk about a glow-up. Talk about a turnaround from the dump to, oh, my goodness, do we have a young contending team here that's going to be in the mix for the foreseeable future? My champ of the week, Dan Quinn.

I loved what Chris Collins were said watching this game. Now, it wasn't, you know, whether it's 100% true or not, I don't know, but I think the general point is true. That when Dan put this roster together in some aspects, he sacrificed talent for culture. 100%. It's got to get the culture right first, and then we'll start building the team. And I think that's spot on, man. And that's what the turnaround was. And, you know, for whatever reason, I don't think I respected Dan Quinn enough as a coach in his previous stops.

I think the playoff loss to, or the Super Bowl loss rather to the Patriots. left a bad taste in my mouth and I kind of just felt like yeah it's just it's just dan quinn he was an afterthought in the coaching cycle last right last time and he that was not their first choice I wonder in hindsight if they're glad ben Johnson turned his nose up and said no thank you yeah dude I mean it goes back to the fundamental team building philosophy that's rooted in culture and fostering an environment for people to come in and be the best version of themselves look at a guy like Bobby Wagner, dude. I thought he was cooked. I thought he was cooked. Looking like Bobby Wagner out there for these guys.

Dude, making all pros. Deserved it. Yeah. Well, I had Dan Quinn written down as well, because I write down multiple guys every week, usually. But the guy I'm going to go with Joe, if you're ready to move on. Yeah. Less need is my champ of the week. Just watching that game last night, I don't think what less need is done is being talked about enough. he managed to basically completely shoot his shot on a Super Bowl run where he traded

all discernible draft capital for older players, for veterans, for Hall of Fame caliber players, and they got it done. And then just a few years later now, Joe, he has completely reloaded this roster with very limited draft capital. And he's come away with guys like Jared Verse, Braden Fist, Cam Kitchens, Bo Limmer, Steve Avila, Byron Young, Kobe Turner, Pooka, Kua. David Allen. Only one of those guys is the first round pick. Blake quorum, I like too. I know he didn't play a lot.

Jordan Whittington looks like another find in the later rounds at wide receiver. Picking DeMarcus Robinson up off the street who couldn't find a home anywhere. And now he's a player finding a meaningful role for 22. Well, that's more of a coaching staff thing. But man, it's so hard to reload a roster when you don't have premium draft capital. And he's done it, man. This defensive line is going to be scary for you. We've been saying it all season, Joe, but it last night was like the coming out party.

And I know Sam Donald's a bit of a pumpkin, right? But that was just, it's fun to watch. And that team is young. I know Stafford is not young, but everyone else around him is young. And it's just, it's really cool to watch. I think Les has proven he can be both types of jams. He can be the, you know, build, grow and develop, draft and develop style guy. Or he can be the, you know, cards all in and just go for a guy.

And it's working out, man. They look great. Yeah, dude, the player development in Los Angeles is really, really outstanding. And I think that's a great call out, man, to retool this as quickly as they have with kind of a shotgun approach to stockpying a lot of compensatory picks and hitting on a bunch of middle round picks and then putting them in positions to be successful. You know, that that's what's been really amazing here. And it seems like find after find after find. And, you know, filling in the blanks a little bit in free agency, right back in this thing. and look, who knows how much longer Stafford is going to go,

but this feels like a great situation for whatever the next guy or whoever the next guy is and whenever they get them to be able to step in. And hey, we have a commitment to a philosophy, what we do. Let's go. It's ready for you. And the Rams are one of the best run organizations in the league. It certainly feels like. Yeah, that's true.

And it feels like the retirement talk should die down with Stafford. I don't know. I think some of that was frustration, right? Maybe so. I mean, I don't know if he's not not frustrated anymore. It feels like there's always something kind of lingering there, but it seems like he's just a right quarterback for this team, though, man. When he's confident and throwing the football and playing in rhythm, dude, it's, yeah, if Stafford's on a heater, dude, good luck.

Yeah, good luck. Good luck. And he looks spry to me, Joe. I feel like the pocket movement. That's the best it's been with him. It's weird. I don't understand. it man yeah his his play speed his tempo is is really really good he's got such command of what they're trying to do offensively yes sir all right chump chump of the week for me brett whitefield oh let's hear it and i want i want to rephrase this i want to rename this right now this is the chumpkin oh oh let's go mr sam darnall i mean talk about the ultimate collapse over the last two weeks an unfortunate reminder to everyone of who he really is as a quarterback.

18 of 41 against Detroit took nine sacks last night against the Rams. Every concern that you had about Sam Darnold that you forgot about for 17 weeks you have been reminded of. And I was watching that game last night. You know it was in my ear the whole time? Brett Whitefield. Sam Darnold never knows when he's hot. Sam Darnold never knows when he's hot. Yep.

Brett was right because, boy, that was a masterclass in how you should not navigate a pocket under pressure. And it's unfortunate for Sam, dude, because it was such a great story. How much money did this dude cost himself the last two weeks? I mean, the perfect combination of what you don't want to happen with Tennessee getting the number one pick, because I thought that was the San Donald spot in free agency where they could bring him in,

West Coast offense, you know, timing based, seems like the right place for him. A little bit of money there in Tennessee that they could use. You know, not everyone's going to have the resources to pay a Sam Donald, especially what you thought he was going to make. Now it's like they're not picking one, probably not interested in this path. And it becomes very complicated to figure out what team's going to want him and, also pay for what he did do this year. It's a very complicated situation,

and the last two weeks have really, really tanked his market and free agency in my opinion. It's a great call. Man, I, Joe, the last two games, I've never been more vindicated on a take in my life so quickly. And I've been struggling because I've been saying all year and certain times in the season,

I looked bad for saying it. But finally, the last two games, and let me be clear, I was not rooting against Sam Darnold. I did someone in my mentions last night telling me that. No, I think Sam Darnold's a great kid. I wish him success. I just was just evaluating what I saw on tape. And so of those nine sacks show, I'm pretty sure eight of the nine were charting is his fault. Wow.

The best part, too, the funniest part is he was literally sprinting backwards on some of them. Like total deer in headlights freeze mode. He had one where Justin Jefferson's literally standing in the flat without a got, like there wasn't a player within 15 yards of Jefferson and Darnold sprints backwards. It takes a second set of thrown to his checkdown. And he had three more turnover worthy plays. It's just, it's an ugly brand of football. And I have a, I have a hot take. I want to throw at you.

Okay. I actually, I think we should talk about where Donald lands a little bit here. But has he played himself into the Minnesota Vikings keeping him? is this is this not maybe the best thing that's happened for them what i like about this from minnesota's perspective is that it gives them clarity on not being the team that pays him and then trades j jay mccarthy right i think this gives you the clarity that you need to understand that this is the likely outcome at the end of the season if sam darnold's your guy and you got too good of a remainder of team to go to war with that as your quarterback.

It's too prohibitive to winning. So I think it gives them clarity to say, thanks for everything. Go sign somewhere else. We're moving forward with J.J. McCarthy. And I think this is twice now where Minnesota has been up against deviating from their plan, year one, they win all those games, fluky, you knew it wasn't sustainable. And they stayed committed to a vision that they had and turned over that roster. And look where they are.

Now, here they are again. you could see how you could just put band-aids over these things and pick it up because you did have a good year. And now you have that clarity once again to be like, you know what, this is not a sustainable path forward that's going to get us to where we want to go. Let's stay the plan, which the plan is J.J. McCarthy, who they picked high in the draft last year. So I think you let him walk. Let Daniel Jones stick around. I think that's your plan. Stick around.

He can be your backup quarterback. You have some upside there, but roll with J.J. McCarthy. Yeah, getting the clarity obviously is a big deal. I'm tempted to say that Kevin O'Connell's always new, though. That's why, I mean, it broke. Schefter reported like five, six weeks ago that despite Donald's play, they're planning on JJB and the guy and they weren't going to spend big money. I guess I'm making the point now.

Like, what do you think the cost is for Sam Donald? If it's, you know, two years at 20 million now because it's backup money, is that not worth keeping around to be the backup? He obviously- No, no, no, no, no. I don't know. That's the whole appeal to J.J. McCarthy is that you move forward with the stacked roster while not committing a bunch of money caps based to quarterbacks. You're still rolling with a Nick Mullins possibly. Oh, yeah, without question. Beginning the pastur-not, whatever, Daniel Jones. Sure, there's no chance that I'm giving that to Sam Darnel. Some other team should, but not Minnesota. They got to move on. So who's the other team real quick? Like, I'm looking at, you know, gosh, I'm looking at the draft order. I don't see a clear.

you're maybe the giants, but they're going to be in QB range. So it's like maybe you bring him in as a bridge. I don't know. I don't know where he fits. There's two destinations that I think make a lick a sense, Vegas and Pittsburgh. Now, I wouldn't be actively rooting for that. If I was a Raiders fan or a Steelers fan,

I would not actively be rooting for that. When you think about the combination of need and has a little bit of money to give to a quarterback, those feel like the logical teams. and they're sort of outside that strike range to get shooter Sanders or Cam Ward. The Giants can't sign up for this, right? It's too big. It's too big.

Cleveland, maybe, but I mean, Cleveland's got way too much tied up in quarterbacks again. You could see him being a decent fit with Stefanski, but I guess for me it's what is the cost going to be, dollars and cents wise? I would guess this is kind of an uncharted territory for quarterbacks. Because I don't think he's worth. the of the Gino deal.

Certainly not the Baker deal. Well, what was Baker's initial deal to go to Tampa, though? And Pete for the start. Yeah, that was one year four million or something like that. Yeah, so maybe Stan's got to be something like that. But Daniel, I mean, let's be honest, Daniel Jones off of a lesser season, got 40 per. Everyone knew that was a mistake, though, at the time. It doesn't.

When has mistakes precluded future mistakes in the history of the NFL? That's fair. They don't learn anything. That's fair. And on the Vegas note, if they end up with Ben Johnson at Keeb, I can't see Ben signing up for a stand. That's just not the type of quarterback here. Right. You're going to do that to any time that you think about any person saying, I don't think they're going to sign up for that.

Someone's going to do it. Yeah, that's true. All right, we got to get to your chump of the week still. I got to clear my throat. Stick with us, folks. When you're flying Emirates business class, sampling our range of vintage wines from the largest selection in the sky. Guys, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates, fly better.

All right, Brett, your jump of the week, sir. Yeah, my jump of the week is Justin Herbert. Joe, I'm just going to say it right now. I am done with Justin Herbert forever. In the offseason, Joe, I called him a coach killer. I said he never shows up in big moments. When the rubber meets the road, when it's third and ten,

he's not going to make the throw. When it's first and ten, he's going to throw a stupid pick. When it's second and ten, he's taking a dumb sack to knock you out of field goal range. I'm not a Justin Herbert guy. I finally came around this year. Finally, because of the Jim Harbaugh effect,

I thought Herbert was playing more constrained football. He was throwing the ball better, making better decisions, not taking dumb sacks, not checking it down. on every freaking drop back that mattered. And then he goes and does that in a playoff game, Joe, four turnover worthy plays.

Every sack he took in that game. Listen, I'm not going to say his O line didn't get whooped at times. Like Joe Alt, Roshan Slater probably had their, you know, probably their worst performance of the season. I can't verify that yet. I haven't looked at the data, but it didn't look pretty on tape when I watched it. But some of those sacks he took were just a great. I can't with Justin Herbert. I'm done with them forever, Joe. It's going to take a lot for me to come back around. My chunk of the week, Justin Herbert, just laying an absolute. This is the same guy, Joe, who blew a, what, a 27 point lead against Trevor Lawrence, who threw four interceptions in the first half a couple years ago in the playoff game. Trevor Lawrence has been a robot ever since that moment. And you lost to that guy in the playoffs after spotting getting spotted 20 something points. And he goes.

and does it again against the Texans. I can't. Oh, my gosh. I can't, dude. It's horrible. Horrible. I'm swapping. Who we putting in? Jaden Daniels, you get Justin Herbert's spot in my top 10. Screw it.

Ooh. I'm kicking Herbert out. Wow. All right. He's off the team. I don't want to respond in the moment because I want to transition into our conversation on kind of breaking down these games and focusing in on what. the leading cause of the elimination is, right? You hear coaches say all the time.

Your strengths get you to the playoffs. Your weakness is get you eliminated. So we want to focus in on those things that each team needs to improve. And I think we should start. This was the first playoff game, right? Chargers, Texans. And this gives me an opportunity to maybe add, I know that you have the context,

but add my thoughts on this Herbert situation because it should be the leading conversation in, you know, this Chargers team, not. Not being able to handle their business, right? They were road favorites. Rex Ryan said it was a buy week for the Chargers against Houston. We both. What's that? We both picked the Chargers as well.

Right. Since we're the worst team in the playoffs, I believe we said that. All right. Justin Herbert didn't play well enough to win. It was also a pretty uncharacteristic performance based on the rest of the season. He threw four interceptions and that's not great. I felt like for as big of an issue as, Herbert was, so was his wide receiver talent.

On at least two of those interceptions, those receivers could have made a better play on that ball. He led, of all the wild card round quarterbacks this week, he led all of them in drop yards, 39 drop yards according to the fantasy points date of suite. They had a 12.5% drop rate. Second highest only to Bo Nix.

His receiver talent also let him down in this game. And I thought that when they came out of those first two drives with only six points where they got into the red zone, settle for a short field goal. Houston fumbles on their first snap. I think they get the ball at the plus 37. They come away with six points. That's nightmare fuel. And for as concerned as people should be about Houston, good team on defense. Those edge rushers, Hunter and Anderson are studs. Lasseter and Stingley, good pair of young corners. This is a hard matchup for the Chargers. and we probably didn't give enough credit to Houston.

And look, their concerns offensively are still absolutely there. But I think Herbert was prohibitive. But when I look at this man's career, when have they ever gotten it right around him? You know, like he's in year five. He's never had the coaching staff. He's never had the right supporting cast. And I get it. You got to elevate and all that.

But you're still talking about a young player in the first five seasons of his career where there's been no stability whatsoever. So I think you can recognize the warts, but I still feel like there's untapped potential and ceiling for Justin Herbert to develop into as things become more stable around him. I get it. It wasn't a good performance. Certainly wasn't good enough.

But I think there's so many other factors in play here outside of just Justin Herbert. Those are good points, Joe. Now that I've calmed down, I will say, okay, I won't be out on Herbert forever, but he's got to earn my trust back. And you know what though? You're right about the receivers. They stunk. Quentin Johnston, brother, I don't.

Can't go to war with them. Yeah. Work on those hands for the love of God. Oh my gosh. I've never seen a receiver. In the NFL, I trust less to catch the football. Even like peak Amari Cooper yips in when he played for the Raiders. You remember that?

He had like a season where it seemed like he dropped everything. I trust Quentin Johnson. than that dude and then just the body control not there there's a reason he was like horrendous on contested catches in college bad hands no body control I don't I don't know what we're doing with him when they drafted him I didn't think they were gonna make him a deep threat kind of guy like they are and by the way I'm not letting them off the hook I'm not let let him grow Greg Roman off the hook either some of these play concepts the first Herbert pick the there's like a flag route to Quentin Johnson

that's not an NFL play. You cannot run that in the NFL. I know you think Herbert has a bazooker for an arm. Dude, the hard play action rollout right to throw a 50-yard flag to the left side of the field, the backside, to a guy with no body control is a terrible. It's a terrible play call. You got to get it out of the playbook.

And yeah, Herbert misses the throw, but it's like you're asking the guy to throw the ball over 60 yards in the air running the opposite direction. I can't. Oh, yeah. The whole game had me all feeling sorts of certain types of ways. I was, I was, you know. I don't think they have a worthy receiver besides Ladd McConkey.

Yeah, and he didn't, like he had the great play, but he had, what, two drops himself, didn't he? I mean, he had the one interception went right through his hands. Right through it. Yeah. I said nine for one, 97 a touchdown on 14 targets. It's hard to be. Yeah. But, I mean, nobody else on the team.

I mean, dude, this is crazy. The rest of the receiving production, 16 yards from Disley, 15 from Tucker Fisk, 10 from Chark and four from Darius Davis, and 197 from Ladd. Would would QJ end up with? Zero catches on five targets. Oh, that's brutal. I mean, they didn't have an offensive player that was not named Ladd-McConkie to get more than 26 yards from scrimmage.

Yeah, that's insane. So like Jim Harbaugh's got to quit Greg Roman, right? We can't do this. The thing is, fundamentally I like a lot of what Greg does. I love the the personnel mixups, especially on a team that doesn't have great wide receiver talent. Yeah, let's see some more 21 and 12 personnel. I don't need to see QJ Palmer and Darius. Davis on every freaking snap.

We can get away from that, right? We can play a little more. So, yeah, I like what Roman does fundamentally. It does seem like even going back to his tenure in Baltimore, some of Lamar's playoff limitations were tied to Greg Roman. So it's like from a play calling standpoint, I don't know that I love it, but I kind of like the offensive philosophy. So I don't know how you remedy that.

How do you maintain that philosophy with getting a new play caller in there? Because especially that you want to tap into Herbert's athleticism and that big arm. You want that heavy play action stuff. You like the counter power run scheme in front of them. Like I like all of those things. I like all those elements. It just doesn't work in big moments for whatever reason. They needed Brian Daibald to get fired from the giants and hire him to be their

offensive coordinator. Yeah, that's true. It's a good call. Well, there's some good coordinators out there, I think, that you could go pull. So let's, I don't think that they will. I mean, I remember watching YouTube videos from the Chargers account. and it's preseason and it's Roman and Harbaugh in their RVs camping while they're building the facility.

It's having a good old time. Those guys are boys, man. Yeah, they are boys. It's a, it's, you know, Roman's basically part of the family now at this point. Right. John for so long and now with Jim, it's just, yeah. What else on the Chargers?

I mean, run defense continues to be an issue. I mean, not that, I mean, Houston, 168 yards rushing, but I think everyone, if you watched Houston this year, you knew when it was clicking for them. They were able to run the football. And they didn't have the horses up front. I mean, it's been an issue for the charges in my opinion, in terms of their defense to tackle, their interior D-line play for a number of years. They really didn't address it. And on their biggest games, they couldn't stop the run.

And then in their biggest games, they also couldn't run the football like they wanted to. I think maybe did they miss, did they miss Pipkins is, I mean, Dobbins didn't show up in a big way. I didn't think their commitment to running the football was very good. This game was 32 to 12, but it was like 10 to 6 going into the second half. And I felt like both play callers were playing this game like they were trailing by 14. I didn't feel like either team had a great feel for the flow of the game, to be honest with it. Dude, Houston was completely DOA in this game. Right.

Till the Stroud fumbled snap that turned into a, was it a touchdown or a big play? Complete goofy play. Yeah, it was a stupid. Yeah, why not be a big. For whatever reason, that was the play that woke up Texans office. right well i mean woke up i mean kind of you know they didn't right yeah they yeah they had a good day but yeah i don't and that was like late in the second quarter that happened first i mean that was like to end the first half and then i i don't know man yeah chargers they need they need some interior

o line help for sure i think because they can't run the ball against good defenses that's been true all year yeah they'll go pound the rock against a bad run d but against good defenses they haven't really been able to run the ball all year or sustain it anyways and then run defense man they're i think that's what it comes down to they'd get beaten the trenches when it matters early downs just losing in the trenches and i think parraman going down early in that game didn't help um yeah but it's hard what's hard about a team like the charges just like oh it's year one under harbaugh 11 and 6 they go to the playoffs good start and then it's like well they also have a paid quarterback that's supposed to be really good like reconciling that is is kind of difficult i still think it's

It's a good season for the Chargers. I think they over, they exceeded expectations for sure. I think they smashed their projected wind totals. But it just feels like you're perpetually in this place with these Herbert teams and just wanting more. And while he's responsible, it just feels like you can still point your fingers in too many other directions. Like I want to isolate that variable of Justin Herbert. I don't think we have. I think that's fair.

All right. Let's move on. The next playoff game, what's just going to order? Yeah, let's do it. Baltimore and Pittsburgh. All right, let's skip that one. I was going to. I don't know why, how the score was 2814.

That game felt like just an absolute Molly Whippling. Well, the Ravens just wanted to get out of that thing in the second half. You know, it's just, if they wanted to score 75 points, they could have. Pittsburgh had no answers for how they wanted to run the football. sold out to stop Henry on the zone read and Lamar got all these plays and they're just toyed with him on offense. And then, I mean, Russell Wilson, I mean, talk about a quarterback that you can't go to war with.

It's Russell Wilson, man. Like his regression to a pumpkin was just as significant as Sam Darnold's. And you go back to that first game. The first game, Russell went in there and gave a spark and everyone's like, oh, man, I think this can work. it was underthrowing balls and they made unsustainable plays on the ball, man. This guy has no feel whatsoever. Yeah, and what's crazy is he still like completed 70% of his passes.

Right, because that's 9.3 yards in attempt or whatever, ridiculous. Passer rating has always been the most important staff for Russell Wilson. I've watched him for 100 years. He's doing the same stuff, same stuff to not throw incompletions and like, he'll like run out of bounds instead of throw it away so he doesn't take the incomplete pass. The dude has no feel. The only, it's literally, when you watch Russell Wilson play quarterback, it really feels like the only thing he cares about is passery.

It's prohibitive to winning. How bad was Pittsburgh's contain in this game? It's like they came into this game acting like they had never seen the read option before. I haven't seen anything like it in the last five years of football. They played this team more than any other team. I know. That's what's crazy. Lamar ran right by TJ Watt.

How many times? Well, they had him. down on the run on the zone read i don't you can't that's not a coaching decision you can just make though like it felt like it was because they kept on doing it like how do you reconcile that oh man i don't know that was wildberg's not competitive they've been getting to the postseason they're not competitive like i'm starting to feel the frustrations of pittsburgh fans that want mike tom went out of there yeah it kind of it i mean we i know you and i both love mike but man at some point you got to ask yourself, what's the deal? And I know he doesn't have the ideal QB situation to be

competitive in the playoffs. But if your team identity is going to be defense and running the football, that's still on you, Mike. And the quarterback thing's on him too, dude. I get it. They don't have Ben. And maybe they underachieved with Ben Rathosperger. He's had chances to get quarterbacks. He liked Kenny Pickett. He liked Mitch Chubisky. You know, he liked Russell Wilson. Dude, this is just as much on him for not having a quarterback as it is on whatever front office personnel you want to point to. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I think the GM and him work in consort on just about everything. So for sure. So where did they go from here? I mean, I don't think firing Mike Tomlin's in the card. So, you want to talk about the hardest team to figure out what

the heck they're going to do at quarterback. It's this team. I mean, no man's land picking like around 20 in the draft. You want to do the Quinn Newellers, Jalen Miller thing. Like, God bless you. They can't. Like, oh, Lord. Well, seriously, what are they going to do? Is Sam Donald better than Russell Wilson? Yeah, but I think it's probably It's still a path to nowhere, especially

Like, this team doesn't have that much around them. Yeah, I think they need a dog at Whiteout too, still. Yeah, I mean, honestly, and Pickens, like, is obviously talented, but he's a problem, too. Yeah. You said it on, I think, our last show. It's like the second they don't have to rely on Pickens to be their guys, they need to execute that decision quickly. I mean, they got a lot of work to do here in Pittsburgh.

Yeah, man. You love the floor with Tomlin. You love it, right? Nine wins, dude. You're winning nine wins and something goes your way. You get to 10 and you go to the postseason. They've been doing it for years. Is that not, it's almost worse than being bad, though.

100%. Constantly getting there, but never even. having a like i was listening to some pittsburgh fans yesterday saying we don't like they don't even think they can win a playoff game joe with the current state of things this is a team that everything has always been fine right we're three coaches in the history of their team they've had different iterations like for like 50 years just everything was always fine okay we need a quarterback we'll take the third or fourth one in rothosperger he's going to be awesome you know we We need a quarterback. Come on Tommy Maddox or whatever, Neil O'Donnell.

It just kind of always was okay, right? It's like a family run situation here, you know, not a big money situation that stepped into this. It's always been fine. They've never really been in this position where they have to look at their operation and make hard choices. They've never had to do it. And the last few years post-Ben has kind of put them in a situation where they're like everybody else and they don't know what to do. That's a great call. So they got issues, man.

Like even defensively for them to have this familiarity with this team and give up 300 rushing yards, to give up every completion of Lamar wanted it was there for him. They don't have Zay flowers. Like we got stuff to figure out all over this roster and in the most important position at quarterback. And there's not any real clear answers on how to do it. And we got, I mean, offensive line, certainly they wanted to have their guys healthy. an issue going back to Danmore at left tackle Broderick Jones hasn't developed. I mean, Siam Ali was nice, McCormick's nice. They've had some good things happen, but not enough good thing.

Fraser looks good, yeah. The tackles, right, still haven't figured that out. Yeah. I think Troy Fontano will be fine long term. Am I saying that right? Is that how you say his name? Brother, you don't ask me about pronunciation. I screw that up all the time. But they do need to figure out the Broderick Jones thing because that doesn't look pretty at the moment. No, not at all. You can't keep going back to Dan Moore either. No, no. All right, let's get to Bill's. Who'd they play the Broncos here on the other side of it, folks?

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our Black Friday offers won't last. Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca slash Black Friday. IKEA, bring home to life. All right, Brett. The disrespect. You don't even remember who the bills played. Well, I'm thinking about the Ravens, my guy. We're on the Baltimore.

Dude, Denver, not ready for the big dogs yet, right? That game started nicely for them, too. I was nervous. They converted third and eight, hit a bomb to try. Franklin. I'm like, oh my God, this defense can't play. And then the next drive, Taryn goes down, Taryn Johnson for a brief. It looked way worse. Yeah, yeah. Than it did. He came back quickly. But I texted you, for the listeners, I texted Joe, a picture of high blood pressure medication. Hopefully we don't need this today.

Listen, we still did log 27 zone minutes just watching the game because that's just how good things go. But, yeah, focusing on Denver, dude, I think they got a lot to figure out. out here. Defensively, that defenses let them down a ton late in the season. All right. They were amazing all season long. Late in the year, they were in trouble. And

you know, I think obviously, I mean, they're going up against a bill's offense that's multi-dimensional, really dynamic run scheme, great quarterback. And I thought the bills were able to really get after them with the rushing offense. And they're a defense.

that's very good at rushing the passer. But they, it's, it's, they didn't necessarily have the ability on the edges to set firm edges and take care of what the way the bills want to run the ball. And you, you, I think that's creeped up on them multiple times over the last couple of years. And I don't think they were way too cautious. I think defensively, they still blitzed a lot, but they were so concerned with contained rush. And I think you kind of have to be, but that took away from the explosive nature of those rushers. to really get around edges and attack Josh Allen. They couldn't get there.

But I thought the biggest thing is they couldn't run the ball. And the bills are not necessarily a great run defense, but 11 carries for 35 yards with your running backs. And their run scheme is so vanilla, man. It's so vanilla. They don't do anything dynamic to help their run scheme. And everything was very predictable. They're Marvin Mims, dumpoffs.

The bills were ready. Like they knew exactly when those plays were coming. I felt like the Broncos are overcoached and overmatched on the field. Good, good season. Good season for Denver, but they haven't arrived quite yet. Yeah, great, great season for for rookie QB, Bo Nix. I think you, you feel like you have a real building block there at quarterback, which is nice. You nailed it with the pass rush, Joe.

This pass rush has fallen off a cliff. Weeks one through 10, weeks one through 11, pressure rate a near 35%. Since that moment, they're down like 23%. It's like first half of the season, that past, Pass rush was robust, getting after it. They led the NFL in sacks. And then the second half of the season, it's literally falling off a cliff. They can't pressure anybody.

One of the worst units by percentage in the NFL. Even blitzing when they dial up the blitz, they're not getting home either. Their pressure rate on blitzes is only 19%. They actually get worse when they blitz, which is weird. It's a very weird thing. So to me, that defense, you nailed it there, they've completely flipped a script and it wasn't that scary defense it was earlier in the year. And I think the, you know, what do you do at Edge for them?

Because they, they just paid Nick Benito, right? Didn't they give him an extension? Yeah. And he's completely fallen off. Cooper they just paid. Cooper. They have your guy, Alan in the middle. Zach Allen.

It's a good player. Good player, but his play certainly also fell off the table. Run defense isn't there for him? No, he just doesn't play the run at all. At that size, that's kind of concerning. Yeah. I mean, there's looks where they're going to put Malcolm Roach and Zach Allen as their two interior guys without DJ Jones on the field. And those guys are getting washed all over the place, man.

The bills were just bowlinging them around. Yeah. And I mean, Sternard and Barton are good cleanup tacklers. They're not downhill hammers. No, Sternard's not getting off. He's not stacking and shedding anybody. He's just a pressure player and a cleanup tackler, right? Like, that's what he is.

Yep. For sure. By the way, we have not seen a Nick, but we have not seen a Nick. But we have not seen a Nick Bonito extension. So for the Broncos fans yelling at it's, yeah, not yet. It feels like it's happened, but it hasn't happened yet. Okay. To your point, too, I felt like the bills were going right at those linebackers and coverage, too,

for a good portion of that game. Yeah, dude. So that's, and this is kind of a structural flaw with a team like Denver, where Certains's amazing, right? He's the best corner in the league. But the bills in the way that they're designed with their outside receivers of Hollins, Coleman and Cooper. Those guys basically did nothing in this game, and I didn't expect them to do anything in the game. But what those guys help you do is it helps you get one high, middle of the field, closed coverages.

And that opens up a lot, I think, for your backs, your tight ends and your slot players. And that's where the bills ate, right? They're big throws down the field of tight ends. Shakir doing this thing. Curtis Samuel on some overrouts. You know, a couple of good moving the sticks, third down conversions him, getting the backs involved. And so, yeah, you're not getting separation and winning with your outside receivers. But that opens up so much for what the bills want to do by forcing those coverage looks and then being able to go to their backs, their tight ends, and their slot players. Yeah, that's a great call.

So you mitigate a guy like Patrick Sertane in a game like that. I got to ask you, what's up with Matt Collins? He's a dog, man. Bro, that guy has some attitude all the time. All the time. Always getting in little scrums, always boosting it up. He's the kind of guy you hate to play against, but you love him if he's on your team. You're like, that's my dude.

And he's like a total weirdo. He doesn't wear shoes. He doesn't use utensils. He eats with his hands. That's kind of what I'm saying. He gives those vibes off. Yeah, 100%. You should check out his Instagram account.

You'll learn things every day. I learn how to fold a fitted sheet. I learn how to correctly use a can opener. All in his Instagram? Dude, he's unbelievable, man. Unbelievable guy. It's not until a lifetime contract. Please.

He's been like one of the most like, like underrated. I mean, he's a good player and he just bounces around for team to team. It seems like, yeah. But he's like a good, if he's your fourth wide receiver, you're probably in a good spot. So plays teams. He blocks like he plays in line tight end for the bills all the time now. Yeah.

They started taking Dalton Gincade out of those blocking moments. And now Hollins is playing in line and attach to the formation, play side outside. You blocker, man. He does all the stuff, man. He, he, he blocks like through the whistle. He like, there's been like multiple times this year where he acted like he was catching the ball. And he wasn't even. being being thrown to him and it draws coverage and now somebody else gets open he's dude he's he's

he's an he's an absolute joy except for if you're going up against him yeah all right so that's that's denver they got the young up-and-coming team good good good year one under bow nix man i thought i thought i thought nix played really well i thought a supporting cast let him down they had four big drops yeah courtlin sutton franklin had a couple vaid no valet had a couple and frankly they got to get more players on that offense around him dude that's a tight end they need they need they need more That's what I was going to ask you because I think the story of Sutton, you know, being the old vet who's performed very well all year. And then the emergence of Franklin Mims and Velae is nice. They're all, they all seem like they have a role, but would you still go at a guy?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you think she feels super upgradable to me? Super. And little Jordan Humphrey's getting a lot of snaps. You know, he's like they're, I think he, they want him to be their Mack Hollins player. They have nothing at tight end.

Nothing. Nothing. I mean, Adam Troutman's obviously like BFFs with Peyton, but that can't be your number one tight end. Lucas Crowell, that's not a roster. Like, that's a replacement level third tight end. Sean Payton traded five draft picks for the right to draft Adam Troutman. It's insane. It's insane.

So they, yeah, they need to get better at some of these spots to give Bill Nix's best chance. They had like five picks left in that draft and they traded all of them to move up like 20 spots for Troutman when he was with the Saints. It's hilarious move. I think it's a fun receiving prospect at like a small school. Like you saw the upside. But okay, how many times have we seen upside at tight end? It turns into a nothing burger in the middle rounds, right? And he couldn't block.

Yeah, and still still can't really. They don't have those guys on the edges to block, dude. The run scheme is so vanilla. Yeah, they got stuff to figure out. Yeah. All right. We'll get to the NFC side of things here on the other side of it. Folks, be sure to stick with us.

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Almost feels intentional. How about those Green Bay Packers, man? How about those Green Bay Packers? LaFleur, Jordan Love, Packers fans told me all off-season long. This is the best coaching quarterback in the league. What happened? I've already victory-lapped a few things today, so I'm not doing it again with Jordan.

Oh, man. Why not? This is the one I was excited about. Dude, that was a brutal performance. He could have been easily chump of the week. week too. I don't I don't know what's up with the Packers. They've not played good football since week 13, week 13. I'd have to look, but man, it's been, like a lot of my Lions fans, friends and family thought the Packers had a shot to beat the Eagles and I've been telling them all week.

Absolutely not. Like that is not a thing that's going to happen. And that that bared bore true. Yeah, it was that. So, the downfall was week 13 against Miami. They won that game 30 to 17, but I felt like the Packers looked awful in that game. And then since then, I haven't really been super convinced that they were a good team other than the Saints game.

You see Jordan Love splits without play action. It's got negative EPA per dropback without play action. That's hard to do in the NFL, Joe. Negative EPA as a quarterback or a passing offense is very hard to do in the NFL. Yeah, he's hanging out with Flacco and Russell Wilson and Aidan O'Connell and, Aaron Rogers and Mack Jones and Bryce Young.

Like that's his, those are his peers without play action when it comes to EPA for dropback. I would say, you're $50 million year quarterback, man. Is that an indictment on him or Matt LaFleurre, though? Both. Or the GM. Like, we got to talk about the receiving talent on this team. It wasn't a problem last year.

It's the same guys. What happened? You got better at tight end with Tucker Kraft. You got better at running back with Josh Jacobs. What happens? The same freaking receivers, except for they have experience now. They didn't lose anything. Everyone was so excited.

Oh, there's no number one receiver here. John Love can just throw the ball to the open guy. Yeah, well, you found out quick that you need a number one receiver. Doesn't matter how good you think your guys are. You need a number one receiver. They all kind of fell off, dude. They certainly missed Christian Watson. Every player got injured.

It's seen one after the other in this game. Sucks to see what happened with Josh Myers. I'm not sure if we saw the diagnosis there. But to have a garbage injury like that might cost you 20, 25. But league Heath, brother, you got to get you. feet down what are we doing what are we doing not expecting to play in that game so what he was just catch the ball and put your feet down what do you get all the space in the world i expect you to make that play if you're an NFL receiver i that's what i'm saying though like like jaden reeds regressed

this year big time awesome as a rookie he he looks lost in the sauce like they missed watson but like watson has it had like a world beating season by any means right d'ontavian wicks can only catch if it's a contested situation. It's weird, right? I don't understand that. If he's wide open, he will drop it. If he has two guys drape all over him, he'll come down with it. I don't, I don't get it.

It's like Justin Hunter. Remember that guy? He would like initiate contact to feel secure at the catch point. He needs some bodies around me to catch his pole. Must have like older brothers or something. Right. That's a good call out. That's a good call out.

And look, I mean, the Eagles, Jalen Hertz looks really rusty. And obviously you missed some time with the concussion, but this wasn't an Eagles team that showed up and was unbeatable. No. And it's not even like Sequin dominated. His stats were a little bit overinflated on that last play

where he went down. This was an Eagles team that you could beat. But you can't turn over the ball. They had the opening drive fumble, three interceptions from Jordan Love. Yeah. They had Sequin. under four yards of carry until like the last play of the game yeah yeah um hurts looked for sure rusty

they couldn't find ways to get the ball to a j brown despite the green bay secondary or corners i should say being super banged up yeah i agree with you and the eagles let them hang around forever too where it was like at any given moment if if jordan love just plays some some better football here where we have a football game i mean shoot it was what 1610 at one point in the fourth quarter yeah it's not this game was the goder play was the game changing point play, right? Yep. That was, yeah, change the game. Change the game. But I, we call him Goetert. I don't know why people get mad at me. How do you say it? It's Goddard.

Goddard, okay. I always say goather. People yell at me. I'm saying, I don't know how else to say it, man. Yeah, unless he's Amish and I'm unfamiliar with it, but the Amish would pronounce that goadert for sure, but I think it's Goddard. I'm fascinated that you took that to the angle of if he's Amish. What don't I know here? It's a common pronunciation in the Amish community. Yoder is a very popular last name in the Amish community, for example. You know way more than I do. I'm going to see myself out of this conversation because I don't have any dad.

I probably should too in case I say something. I'm not 100% on. So what is for Green Bay? I mean, is it as simple as Jordan Love has to play better? Certainly be helpful if you is healthy all season. They need more. They need actual wide receiver talent. I mean, I thought they overcame a lot defensively.

They may maybe need some more pass rush. It doesn't feel like a laundry list, but like you got to play better in your biggest games. Yeah, we mentioned the receiver thing. I do think they need a dude. And it's nice to draft some of these middle, like you hit on a Robio dubs later. Jaden Reed is a second round pick. Wix is a late round pick. I like that you're building your core out like that, but then I would still like to see a dude.

I think that would help Jordan a lot. But listen, Jordan's struggling with the same thing that every other one of these young quarterbacks is. Doesn't like to play on schedule, doesn't like to throw within timing and rhythm, takes way too many unnecessary sacks, and then puts the ball in harm's way all the time. So he regress back into his scouting report. Yeah, absolutely did. Funny how that some seems to happen. Yeah.

He plays a business paid quarterback, dude. Eight games last year. He was elite for eight games last year. 11 of them. They couldn't wait to pay him. They couldn't wait to pay him. Fair. Maybe he's going to be awesome.

I don't feel like the book's written, but. Oh, for sure. For sure. You kind of going back to some warts and big moments. He's got a, I mean, I thought he could be the NFL MVP this year, dude, based on how he finished that season last year. He's not, that's not even a conversation. Yeah.

And LaFleur, like, falling in love with Josh Jacobs in the run game when it's just, I guess my issues, you don't get a lot of explosives with Josh. Like, he's a good, grinded out. Like, he's like a David Montgomery style running back where it's like, Like we want to be a tough physical football team. He's a good player to have there. They need an explosive element to the run game. I know they drafted what Marshawn.

What I can't remember the guy's name. Marcia Lloyd. Yeah. Marshaun Lloyd to be that guy and he hasn't been available all season. But I think that's a big deal too because there's moments like high leverage moments where you just feel like Lafour is just battering a brick wall with Jacob. It's like, what are we doing? Now you got Jordan in third and eight again.

And that's just not where Jordan's good. You know? So, yeah, I did. defensively, Joe, I'd like to see some corners here. I don't know. The team feels good on paper. That's the thing that's weird. They feel like they have a good roster. They've got youth in the right places. They've got vets in the right places. Underperformed by a long, long stretch.

Yeah. I mean, it's when expectations are there, those are earned. And it's hard, right? Sometimes it's hard to maintain that. We've seen that happen with other teams, right? Jacksonville and their big run that they had. Packers had a good season, right? But it's when you look at what Minnesota did, and obviously Minnesota had the same result. They bounce in the wildcard round. But you feel like you're, we're in that conversation to be the best team in the north.

And now it's like, well, are you the third best team in the north? We had to say, did the Packers actually have a good season? The third place finish, bounce in the first round. If you're a Packers fan, I don't think you feel like you had a good season. No, I don't think you do. But like relative to the league, I thought they had a reasonably good season, 11 and 6. Your quarterback was injured. First year with a defensive play caller, you know,

He certainly didn't build on last year. I think that's probably where the disappointment comes in. Yep. All right, let's get to commanders. Commanders, Bucks. We've already kind of given a lot of flowers to Washington. Hat tip, Jaden Daniels. Everything's awesome.

Tampa Bay. Come on, man. The issues are obvious here. Todd Bowles, you don't have pass rush. You don't have enough corners. I mean, obviously, had a lot of injuries on defense, which matters quite a ton, but. Like, game management.

continues to be like the leading factor for me with with Tampa but then also like you you took a calculated risk that you could figure things out on defense and you didn't you didn't have edge talent you didn't have corner talent and you need a running mate for Levanti David and you might even need a replacement for Levanti David now Joe am I crazy for thinking that when Todd Bowles you know he's super aggressive likes to blitz likes a stunt twist game whatever they did it on Daniel's left side the entire game. And there was no contain on his dominant side. I mean, how many plays was he just being chased from behind and Daniels just kind of

casually strolls out of the pocket to the right? That's usually not how people game plan. They usually want to attack the quarterback's dominant arm to force him against the grain. You didn't see any of that. Dato's was always going right. It was a weird game plan from Bowles, which I guess solidifies your take. I think it's time to move on from him, man. I think that's their most limiting factor right now.

Because listen, this Bucks team was scary. Baker Mayfield, you know, when he gets hot, he's kind of Staffordesk and Stafford-esque in that way. When he gets hot, it's like, look out, Baker's going to be on one. He went 15 for 18 in this game and lost. Like three incompletions and they lost the football game. Baker, Baker wills them, right? I feel like Baker overcomes sometimes Todd Bowles. Yeah.

But he can't, he can't always do it. No. They go for that field goal to tie the game. they didn't get the ball back, man. They didn't get the ball back. Baker's Fumble was obviously a big deal. That's, I mean, that's worth talking about. Hold up.

They, they kicked the field goal to tie the game. They didn't get the ball back? Yeah. 2020. Washington took possession of the ball with 441 and kicked the top, uh, field goal from the 19 with time expired. Wow.

They had a fourth, they had a third and one. They had a third. They had second and one. Baker Mayfield ran the ball for no gain. Third and one. Bucky Irving ran the ball. Minus two, fourth and three. 32-yard field goal to tie it.

Never got the ball back. Man, I'd love to hear what my analytics brethren have to say about that field goal. Where that ranks on the cowardly. I guess the playoffs, you feel like you don't convert there? You lose the game potentially, right? Yeah, but do you? Well, so you're down three. If you give up a touchdown on the next drive,

you lose the game for sure, I guess. Yeah, but you got to like, you got at some point, you still need to stop at a score, right? To win the game, you still need to stop and score. It's a good point. Yeah. So what's your best chance to do that? Yeah.

Go for it anyways. And then take the lead and things are certainly different. We're so obsessed with tying games when the point is to win them. Yeah, it's true. I promise you, Dan Campbell goes for it there. Oh, dude, no, no freaking question. He goes for it.

No question. Now, I know it's kind of hard when you had second and one and that turns into fourth and three. You probably don't feel great. And then the previous possession, you fumbled the ball away, gave him a short field. Yeah. Like, I get it. It's weird how Washington win some of these games, by the way. Keep doing it, though.

Keep doing it. It's like at some point it's not a fluke, right? Like, just they hang in there, hang in there, hang in there, hang in there. And then, oh, gotcha. It's like that Bears team with Dick Geron, like 13 and 3 is the coach of the year. Yeah. And eventually it catches up, but like,

yeah. Sometimes it's, you need a lot of good fortune in the NFL to, to win a lot. So it's at the year, like they were generating fumbles at the craziest rate ever. It's like, 100% of,

yeah, and like, yeah, just forcing fumbles left, right and center. All right, well. So I think, the solution for Tampa's no Todd Bowles. Would you just go Liam Cohen?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a logical path. And I like what Liam Cohen's gotten out of Baker Mayfield. And going back to Will Levis, I know it's a weird name to invoke, but Liam, Liam Cohen's the only quarter coach that's gotten good play out of Will Levis either, going back to Kentucky. True. I'd want to continue with that guy. I wouldn't want him to go away.

I don't think they're going to seem to won the division four years in a row. That's true. It's like, how do you? They're not, this isn't going to happen, but this is certainly worth talking about what we will look at it the way that we do. They need the Aryan step down. Like, they were good when Aryan stepped down. We've talked about this, but they need bowls to do the same thing. Yeah, I don't know if you will.

No, I don't think you will. But they're going to lose Liam Cohen, though, at some point, right? Yeah. Yeah, dude, how many openings exist in the NFL right now? Feels like you get a new one every day. Yeah, true. Dallas is open. Raiders is open.

Yeah, there's a couple teams that shouldn't have kept their coach that did where I'm like, maybe any day now they'll just decide to pivot. Like, how do the giants not pivot off of Dayball and Shane? They had a million coaches that they gave two years to in a row. So we got to give these guys a real chance, I guess. Maybe they surveyed the options and said, yeah, we'll go with Dayball over filling the blanks guy, you know? Yeah. All right, last game.

The Vikings. We already talked about it, kind of. Oh, man. Yeah, we hit this pretty good, but where do you think the Vikings go from here? Obviously, QB was the most limiting factor on this team. They exceeded expectations by seven and a half wins, Joe. Yeah, yeah. And you still have a weird taste in your mouth after the way that ended.

Dude, to go, what, 14 and 4, including the playoffs? and just feel like you just got your heart ripped out two weeks in a row. That's got to be such a weird feeling as a fan. Like to be that good all year and then just feel like the last two games were just like a horror movie. It's just, it's, I've never seen anything like it, I don't think. I mean, it's kind of crazy. By the, the Honolulu flew in full effect. Second time, by the way.

Rams, the Vikings twice, both times the week after the line. beat the Vikings. Well, I think you look at this defense. I think down the stretch, it was a little less effective. I felt like maybe some of the league caught up to what Flores was doing. But more than anything, I mean, you can't average 3.7 yards per play. You can't take nine sacks. Sam Darnel has too many tendencies that are prohibitive to winning, where I feel like if they had a different quarterback, maybe the results would have been different. They had a great season, but the leading cause here, the leading concern is, is that. Plus, I mean, they didn't run the ball very effectively this year with consistency.

I think they missed Christian Dara saw. They're interior offensive line still can improve. So I, I could be focusing on interior offensive line and quarterback. Yeah. But they already have J.J. McCarthy. So we got one of those things figured out. True. The guard situation, though, has been bad for a couple of years.

They kind of bandated it with Dalton Rizner a little bit. I don't think Riz is a fantastic player, but he's probably an upgrade. To your point about not running the football consistently, I don't think Aaron Jones is the lead back anymore, Joe. I think he's he just, he's at that stage where he's banged up. He played through injury the entire season. He missed a few games.

It's like, I get the explosiveness as attractive. He's great in the past game, but he probably needs a running mate, you know, where he's just a 1B kind of option with a good, you know, every down kind of player next to him. So obviously he was on a one-year deal anyways. I'm guessing they move on from him and address running back a different way next year. But yeah, they have some issues for sure.

Here's an interesting one. The bottom three teams in EPA per rush among playoff teams this year, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Houston. Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Houston. That all makes sense to me. especially because none of those teams have running quarterbacks. Yeah. I think JJ can change that for Minnesota. Absolutely.

So I don't think there's sweeping changes necessary here. Get JJ McCarthy, you ready to go. Find a couple of guards and let's go, let's go play. Yeah, maybe a corner. How do you feel about that? They don't need to. I mean, especially if the florist defense is going to continue, puts a lot of stress on your corners.

Like, you got to have talent there. Yeah. Where are we at on Dallas Turner, in your opinion? We got more to learn. I mean, I liked him as a prospect. I don't think we've learned enough about him. He hasn't played great. I feel like he did come on a little bit down the stretch,

started making some plays. What did he finish with probably like 350 snaps total? Yeah, it took him a while to even see the field. It is tough. They have Van Ginkle and Grenard, who's playing his tail off. Guys are awesome, yeah. Byron Murphy had a great year. Yeah.

He's fine. I thought Gilmore was way up and down. Mattelis, there's another thing. I don't know about this guy. I like Josh Mattelis. I think they need to find a position for him, though, and keep him there. There's definitely value to having these multiple hybrid players.

The dude gets murdered or he's in the slot, though, Joe. Like, make him a safety. He's to come up playing the box or he's going to be your deep safety. I like how they rotate the safeties and you never know what you're going to get, but I can't have Josh Mateles man in the slot for me. next year. It just can't happen. What? I mean, that's been, that's been Flores his entire career, though, versatility in the slot, so.

Interchangeable there. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else here? I don't know if I could say another word. Yeah, I don't know if you guys can tell Joe struggling today. Voice is gone, so we got to get him out of here so he can record us other 17 podcasts this week. We'll try. We'll try. try we'll be sucking on lemons yeah uh Starbucks I know we're not Starbucks guys you got to

Starbucks and get the I told you what it was you remember did you write it down coat the throat coat though you can get that at like CVS oh the medicine medicine medicine ball it's called yeah it's like a tea combo honey it coats the throat really good and you'll feel nice afterwards so I'm on my way All right. We'll be back Thursday and we'll be hitting our all rookie teams on Thursday with obviously a divisional round preview. That's going to be pretty juicy. Remember, folks, no matter what develops, we will always be your first read. Thank you for listening. We are out.