Fantasy Football Daily - Worst Picks In Dynasty Startups (At Cost) in 2025 So Far! | Dynasty Points Podcast

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

Dynasty fantasy football never sleeps, so you shouldn't either. Here are some of the worst picks to make at cost right now! With Dynasty Points. Dynasty Trade Video Here! - https://youtu.be/nkLsM3MJ6bU Sign up here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans Where to find us: http://twitter.com/DynastyPts http://twitter.com/ElNostraThomas http://twitter.com/RyanJ_Heath http://twitter.com/Andy_Buckler FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It is Dynasty Points and it starts now. That's right. It is another episode of Dynasty Points. If you haven't already, you're going to want to click like and subscribe. It helps us in ways you cannot even imagine. are thinking, I could go for some trades right now, then you should check out the video in the description when this show is over. Today we have a fun episode. We are talking about picks that may not necessarily be the worst, but you need to not click them. Do not, just don't,

is the theme of the day. The value is just not right. And we are going to breakdown why that's the case joining me tonight of course is Ryan Heath Andy Buckler is back not sent back down to the miners like he thought he would be he could in fact move his car what we have done is we have looked at the draft board and we've all put our heads together as we look at the draft board here and we decided to point out some of the worst values I don't know if you guys realize this Ryan and Buck we all picked players in the second round for this. We every single one of us looked at it went this second round is dangerous.

So that's interesting. I found that out. We are going to have some bonus picks as well. Ryan, let's kick it over to you first. Your value pick or sorry, not so value pick. Yeah,

my anti-value pick, I do want to make clear before I get into this that Thomas did not force me to choose this player. I came to this. idea completely on my own. Yeah, there was no coercion whatsoever from the host of the show in making me give this take. But yeah, why is C.J. Stroud in the second round, guys? What are we doing? We just watched C.J. Stroud play like he did. And we're taking him in the second round of Dynasty startups now, apparently. I, like, I know that we very quickly move from in-season mode to

off-season mode when we suddenly only care about like a player's age and like his draft capital. C.J. Stroud is pretty good on both of those fronts, but not really in the scoring fantasy points front. And I mean, just to get into that a little bit. So in 2024, C.J. Stroud's fantasy points for dropback, just 0.38. That ranks 34th at the position. He is outside of the top 32 quarterbacks with a minimum of like 200 dropbacks yeah not not very good fantasy points per drop back for those who don't know very predictive stat for future fantasy performance at the quarterback position i wrote an article about it last year maybe all updated this year you can go check that on check that out on fantasy points.com but yeah really rough metrics for strad this year and

when we're talking about fantasy points for dropback when we're talking about fantasy points for dropback when we're about efficiency, how you can efficiently score fantasy points at the quarterback position. There are two ways in the modern NFL to do that. You can either be a hyper-mobile quarterback, get points off of scrambles, off of rushing. That will always juice up your fantasy points for dropback. Or you can have a massive schematic advantage over the rest of the NFL by being in one of these Mick Shanahan offenses. I guess Stroud technically was this past year. We have made fun of PFF Bobby a lot for being like for being like a fake McVeigh, a fake sharp guy. Obviously just got fired earlier this week, which sorry to PFF Bobby.

But it is very apparent when you look at just the top 12 QBs and fantasy points for drawback. It's all the hypermobile guys. It's five McShanahan pocket passers, Baker Mayfield, Jordan Love, Brock Purdy, Derek Carr, who was with Clint Kubiak, Kubiak now going to the Seahawks, and Sam Darnold. And then it was Jared Goff with Ben Johnson and Joe Burrow, because he's just a superhuman. And Joe Burroughs are amazing. And the Bengals had the worst defense in the league, which let him drop back a guillian time. So those are pretty much your only pads to being a top 12 quarterback. If I'm drafting you in the second round of a dynasty startup, I want you to have a better path than that.

I want you to have a better path than Tua Tua, or Brock Purdy, or J.J. Goddam McCarthy, all of whom you can get multiple rounds later, we know that they are in these desirable McShanahan systems. And some of them have outscored Stroud over their entire careers. This year, Tua, three and a half more fantasy points per game than C.J. Stroud, Purdy, almost five more fantasy points per game than C.J. Stroud. And again, we are drafting them later than Stroud, multiple rounds later than Stroud, because Twitter thinks that Stroud's a better real-life quarterback, I guess. That's kind of the justification.

I don't care. I play fantasy football. I don't care if Purdy is not the most technically sound quarterback that makes the Twitter film grinders cream their pants. I like the guys that score fantasy points. All of those guys on Twitter can draft all the CJ Stroud in the second round. Yeah, they can be my guest. Just to keep up with the Brock Purdy comparison,

this was Purdy's worst year for his environment. All of his weapons got hurt, right? Iyuk went down for the season pretty early. Debo Samuel was fat and washed and missed a decent amount of time. Kiddle missed some games. Even Juan Jennings, who was the new alpha, missed some game. Pierceall was shot. Yeah, Pierceall got shot.

Trent Williams missed a handful of games. It was just like bad vibes for the 49ers, right? Like, wow, this is so terrible. Pretty average 18.8 fantasy points per game this year, despite all of that. Some of it was from a little bit of additional scrambling. A couple of rushing touchdowns in there, that's obviously nice. That obviously helps. But that 18.8 fantasy.

points per game, that's what CJ Stroud scored in his rookie year when we were all losing our minds and creaming our pants and drafting him at the 104. And Purdy is still in a much better situation, still in a much better system, just has all of the indicators for, we would expect this quarterback to continue scoring fantasy points over C.J. Stroud. And again, he goes multiple rounds later in the dynasty startups. I guess the final point on Stroud is I think there's a decent chance that he was a Tank Dell merchant. And not to say like that Tank Dell had an amazing season this year, obviously was probably playing hurt, wasn't totally right for a lot of it.

But guess what? Tankdell's hurt again, guys, and he's missing the entirety of the 2025 season. Stefan Diggs, unrestricted free agent. Yes, they can sign someone, they can draft someone. But we're kind of looking with just Nico Collins and kind of nobody else. In that situation, in eight games over Stroud's career that Tank Dell has missed, he's averaged 14.4 fancy points for game guys. Weapons really matter for these pylon quarterbacks.

They are much more affected by the loss of a receiving weapon than the mobile guys. Makes sense because more of their points are scored through the air, right? Stroud is on the receiving end of that. He's on the bad end of that. And again, we're just putting our heads in the sand and drafting him in the second round for some reason. So, yeah, I am not going to have any round two C.J. Stroud. Anyone that's in leagues with me where I have C.J. Stroud from past seasons

and he's still on my roster, like make an offer if you think round two C.J. Stroud is like at all a reasonable valuation. Happy to sell at that market price right now. yeah, that's pretty much it. So take it away, Thomas. Do your victory lap on somebody else on this podcast. Coming down hard on C.J. Stroud. It's not you for once.

That's right. My mentions will be safer, I guess. No, I'm with you in that. I think he's kind of fine in real life. Look, I think scouting quarterback is impossible. I think next year Stroud could come out and do what he did in his rookie year, certainly. I think that if we've had in the chat,

somebody saying Stroud's height was unreal in his rookie year, I agree, he was a big cell rookie year, and then especially when we hit ADP, because like Jacob had mentioned on the show pre, we were expecting like a massive jump, and I think we expect that too much. Do I think that he's probably in the realm of a 16 to 17 point per game player throughout his career?

Probably, right? System, players, maybe they, you know, not as run heavy as mixing it, whatever the case may be. But the upper tier elites, we know what it takes. So he has to be insanely efficient, an insane touchdown rate per attempt, the turnover thing. In his rookie year, I remember one thing Brett Whitefield talked about all the time is that he was just getting away with murder when he was throwing that ball. And then in his second year, he just didn't.

He can be slow to process and he holds on to it too long. Yeah, the offensive line is terrible, but he doesn't move enough to kind of counter that. Now, in the playoffs, in our Discord people were mentioning, well, he ran more in the playoffs. That must have made him better. No, he was worse than the playoffs. He was 0.36 fantasy points per opportunity. You talked about this on another podcast, and he was 0.37 in the regular season. That's just not going to cut it.

That's Tanner McKee level of point production. Like you said, is 14.4, I believe, points per game. I mean, that's with AJ Brown and Devont de Smith so talk about the players around you mattering. So maybe that gets addressed this year. I mean, you mentioned Stefan Diggs. Well, they could bring it.

He tore, it was a non-contact knee injury halfway through the year. I think he's cooked pretty much no matter what for this season, even at 30, 31. So obviously you want personnel and now we get to a new OC. Well, I don't hate to tell you guys this,

but it's not always better. with offensive coordinator. What if Waldron walks through that door tomorrow? Like what, like, no way. Why would you say that? But like,

no, even I didn't want to go that hard calm. Really? We're talking about Shane Waldron. I agree. A mecca, Emeka would be nice, but they need an offensive line,

brother. Like, that's the problem. We can draft them receivers all day, but they need an offensive line or they're going to give up eight sacks. They're going to get him killed back there. And that's,

that's no good for anybody, especially with his deficiencies in holding the ball. But realistically, just because PFF Bobby got fired does not mean the next offense coordinator is coming through and is putting up 35 points per game. It can always be worse. There is always worse. So I'm with you.

We've had some people say it's third round in my draft. He went in the third round in my 303 in my draft. Still too high for me when you talk about this kind of, again, anytime you can get two in the sixth or lower, I'm just going to do that. Guys, if you want real-life quarterback that shows a lot of amazing intangibles that all the football guy scouts really love, just draft Trevor Freakin'Lorence at this point. What are we doing? We got Liam Cohn, QV Whisperer.

Look what Baker Mayfield just did. That is now a McShanahan offense. Give me Trevor Lawrence over C.J. Stroud. If that's like you. Yeah, that was rough. You did that with way more enthusiasm than he did, actually. but I'm not going to try to repeat it. I feel like he'd better pick.

I just feel like Leon Cohen just didn't commit. I think he had it. It's one of those things. He said that in the mirror like, this is going to sound so sick. And then he went to do it and got nervous. And then he like half committed to saying it, which is why he did the weird head tilt thing.

I think that's just a national signal of non-committal to what you're saying. That video made me like Liam Cohn a lot more, because it felt very relatable to me. As a guy that is in front of a camera, trying not to be awkward a lot of the time. Yeah, I'm feeling like I'm failing in real time. I felt Liam Cohn in that moment.

So I'm rooting for that guy. Yeah, Bindles, I did. You have a, you have a, I walked you through how to do that in your DMs on Twitter right now. Big Daz says this isn't the draft to fix your line, brough. I don't think NFL teams care about that. I think they're going to find the best offense alignment to fit a problem. The NFL teams,

don't necessarily care about that kind of stuff. They're like, this is our immediate issue. Let's find the best player to fix that issue. We've seen that in multiple draft classes. The offensive line weren't that great. And some of them went number one and number two overall. Yeah, I think they're going to probably panic fix that offensive line. But also has no better combo, T-Law and Brian Thomas Jr.

Or Stroud and Nico, whoever I can get at the cheapest prices, and that's Brian Thomas Jr., and, Trevor Lawrence at this point. Brian Thomas and Nico are pretty close and Trevor Lawrence and Stroud are not. So that'll probably change, but I think that's a good point. Just not a good value pick overall.

Buck, I know you don't want me to let you talk about CJ Stroud, so I'm not even gonna, I won't go there. I'll save it for you unless you really want to get into something. I know you're tired of talking about him, but I'm good on the Coleridge Bernard discourse. I'll pass.

I'll pass. Okay. Okay. I like that. I like that you. That's how you know what side of the fence Andy Buckler stands on as he uses birth, is his full name. Let's get to your pick here.

You have a value pick like your worst value pick in startups right now in 2025. It's probably going to upset some people. It's somebody that we talked about on this show last year and it came back to bite us. I want to just kick this off by saying you're not saying he's a bad player, right? That's what the most people might see this and they might go a little crazy. You're not saying the player is bad and that if you do have them, you're going to be ass. So let's let's dive in. Who is your worst value pick right now in startups in 2025?

Mine is Saquan Barkley going off the board as the RB3, pick 22 overall. He turns 28 years old on Super Bowl Sunday, which just adds to this voodoo magic Eagles, second on Berkeley season. Of course, his birthday is Super Bowl, same as Cooper DeGine as well. He did average 22.2 points per game, who's RB1 overall. But he only had 33 receptions on 44 targets, which this year was a little different with the top 12 12 running backs. James Cook had 36. Kairn had 35. Pretty much everyone else is in the 50s. but he had eight games, eight games with two or fewer, two or fewer targets, and he never had more than four catches in the game.

I mean, that's not going to change. That was the whole concern going into the Saquoan Barkley season is the tush push was one concern, which he didn't necessarily overcome, but he can score from all over the field, so he still hit double-digit touchdowns, which I think will, you know, probably stand. The tush-push is definitely not going away. We saw Josh Allen try to do it five times and not, you know, not do it. So it'll be back next year. And he, so it just lowers his ceiling.

That was like the whole concern. Only four catches in the game, like I said, it's the fewest catches for an RB1 overall since Derek Henry did it in 2021. Obviously, I think Derek Henry here is probably the best comp for Sequin Barclay because they're very similar in how they score their fantasy points. They're elite rushers that, you know, thrive scoring touchdowns don't catch the ball. And Derek Henry's 30. So that's the other thing where it's like, oh, people will see maybe think age isn't

a concern because of Derek Henry. I think Derek Henry's just kind of built, you know, a little different. and things are a little different with that. But it's just really scary to, he probably had his best season of all time. That's probably what it comes down to. And now you have to pick him in the second round of startups, which I actually, like I figured he'd be in the second round. We talked about a couple weeks ago we said him in the second round.

The players he's going over are like pretty ridiculous to me, right? So I don't mean to jump around a little bit. But guys that directly behind him that I'd rather have that I just, it kind of goes to picking him, right? As soon as you pick him, it's like when you drive a car off a lot, you automatically lose 50% of value. This happened with Christian McCaffrey a couple years back when he was coming off his historic seasons, and he was a second round startup pick. First of all, you commit to a win now. And second of all, you just have an asset that's worth 50% less than what you just, the guys you picked him over.

And I hate doing that. Like right behind him, like he's going ahead of Drake May, Marvin Harrison Jr., Drake London, Garrett Wilson, Jordan Love, Bowen, Nicks, Loud McConkey, and Kyler. all of those guys. I mean, John H.N. as well. Yeah, there's even more. I didn't want to write. Like, it's almost everybody. I don't think you can get. Not Breeze Hall. Say that. Yeah, besides Breeze. But those like guys I mentioned,

I don't think you can trade Barclay for any of those players. So I just, that's why I think it's a losing game. That's why I think, yeah, if you drafts take on Barclay, he's probably going to be really good next season. Probably be good the year after. But he's just not going to hold any type of dynasty value, and that becomes the acquisition cost. His acquisition cost is always going to be cheaper than a startup cost.

You can buy him, I'm sure, for like a first plus, a first in a player, rather than drafting him. And he's also an asset that people get nervous over when they have, right? So if you're mid-season, the team that has him is bad, you're going to get him. He's a player that people are going to panic sell because of his age and because of the position he plays, that he's just automatically going to be more easier to acquire than a Garrett Wilson.

If a team has, like, he's going ahead of Garrett Wilson. The team has Garrett Wilson, they suck. They're just going to hold Garrett Wilson. He's 25. You might, like, so I think, I think when it comes to drafting Sequin, this is an automatic loss, honestly. And we also do the thing where things change really fast in NFL and drafting Barkley.

It's not a guarantee that he's going to be, you know, this league winner again next year, and you're automatically going to win. You put yourself into a corner in a draft. when you're spending a second round pick on probably, I would say probably the most win now piece in the first two rounds, I would say. And you have, so I think he's a really bad value.

Like I said, doesn't mean I think he's a bad value, a bad player or he's not going to score him more fantasy points. But I think now is the highest his value will ever be as far as selling him in Dynasty League. I think this is your last out if you want max value and you can buy him later. I totally agree with you in the build stance. now this isn't like a zero or B you can never draft it in fact

buck is the type of person that made fun of me for drafting up for passing up running backs like Ken Walker and Josh Jacobs in like the seventh round because you obviously need running backs you're just playing the build game for me with this which is where I completely agree have guys like lad and JSN even AJ Brown Kyler murray I would say drafting Sequin in the second or Jonathan Taylor say in the fourth and I'm not even the big JT guy

but like Chuba Hubbard in the seventh sure he wasn't putting up 23 points per game but there is a point in time we're calling him like you know Christian McCaffrey Light for what he was doing on the Panthers for a time like there's just other bets to make with running backs and to me this boxes you in to a specific build not saying you shouldn't build to win. It's okay to win. I think that's something that doesn't

get talked about enough in terms of startups. It is okay to build a team to win. You should want to be able to do that. I just think you shouldn't lock yourself in that room. You make that pick. You have to win. You have to win for it to pay out. You're absolutely right. Now in terms of cost, like I straight up, I talked about this on the market report, straight up made a guy quit a league once because we were going to the semifinals in a no trade deadline league and I traded for Barclay. It cost me, I think,

two and a half first value. And the guy quit because he was furious that Barclay was traded for that price. And I was like, all right, it was interesting. So he's definitely the type of player. He's available on specific rosters, not every roster. But you're right,

it is a peak type player. Now, I also think to what TD said in the chat that he's going to score, score buckets. That dude is going to score points for the next couple years because, you know, the system that he's in is a great player, clearly has the juice, et cetera. Banking on this level of season, I don't know. That I really don't know. I think the best bet if you want to, like, tear down with a massive plus and you want to stay at the running back position, I think the best bet's Josh Jacobs, right? Almost 18 points per game. Similar system, really good system catches

the ball more has i would say a higher floor he doesn't i don't think he has the ceiling but he has an rb you know top three rb ceiling we've seen it so i think josh jacobs and like right now like with saycuan barclay playing dick josh jacobs in two first jose jacob's in a first plus probably something you can get right now i think that's a good i think that's a good uh tear down if you want to do that and then if you look at where they're getting drafted as i pop them up on the board now the people listening to this obviously can't see on the board so i'll do my best to to to talk through But I mean, Josh Jacobs isn't exactly getting much of a discount here at RB9. Right now, that could be an entirely different conversation.

But again, passing up Barkley, your roster with a wide receiver or Drake May is going to look a lot better. If you add Jacobson the fourth with, say, a couple of receivers, then it probably would with Barclay and then a couple of receivers. It's just strategically wise doesn't make a lot of sense to, again, box yourself in. to one build. You want to have a pathway. Buck, you and I did this. We drafted a team.

We weren't sure if we were going to end up competing or not. And then the seventh, eighth round came around and well, Josh Jacobs was there and all of a sudden

we had a running back and then around later, oh my God, we got another one and we ended up winning it. It's one of those things where you want to be able to build your team

and then take advantage of those surprising values that pop up. That is ideal team building and yes i i've seen a ton of the the ton of the builds where especially this year seven straight running backs six six running backs out of out of you know eight picks those are future orphan teams that's what those are that's what we call them right because you're you're now have you know a bunch of the most high risk assets in fantasy and in the chat uh simon i love this point

from Simon. He says, Barclay is almost exactly Christian McCaffrey one year later at 28 new team. Runaway RB1 and scoring likely redraft 101, vaulted denies the RB3 after Bijon and Gibbs. However, if he loses a year to injury, we know what happens. We immediately know

what happens to that type of player Bruce says rage quit. Yeah, that's not exactly. You're just left. Not saying he can't be super efficient again. Not saying he can't score you 20 points per game or that he's like a league winning type player.

It's just really hard to get this again. And for everything to go right. Like tons of players on the Eagles got hurt this year. Just not Barclay. And we had a great year for running backs in general. We also ended a phenomenal year for running back health. Not fake running back health. Like at the end of the year when guys like Hubbard were getting benched for an injury

no one knew about and all of a sudden he's on IR. So we had a great, I'm not rolling that. dice again either so if you like with the age with the with the with the injury thing barcly is a guy that i think gets the injury prone tag i think he probably deserved it in the beginning his career last three seasons been really healthy played 16 to the last three games uh two the last three seasons obviously this year they sat him in a week 17 so the giants were dead two years ago and then he missed two games last year so 16 games in last two of his last three seasons obviously now he's going into the back back end of the 20s so if history repeats itself

we'd expect him, you know, to not say as healthy as he's been. Yeah, and we, we'll go ahead. I just have three quick points I need to get out on Darkly. Okay. So just, just humor me for a second. So on like the reception stuff, the efficiency stuff, Sequin, like as an archetype of a fantasy score, I've stopped caring about does this guy catch passes if the appropriate infrastructure is

around him, right? We know guys can average 22 fantasy points per game, even if they don't catch a lot of passes, even if they're getting vultured at the goal line sometimes by the touch push. We know that guys can do it if they have one of the best defenses in the league behind them and one of the best offensive lines in the league in front of them. Defensive performance from year to year, not generally very sticky, offensive line performance, a little bit more sticky if all the guys are staying together. I think it's, I would even say likely that Sequin Barclay scores 20 plus fantasy points per game again next year.

Again, I don't care about the archetype stuff outside of if you want to make the argument, well, the Eagles defense is going to collapse next year, right? That was kind of my anti-Saquan case from the preseason is I don't trust this Eagles defense after what it looked like in the second half of 2023. that I didn't see the pieces there in front of me. They were there in front of them. I was wrong. I had a headache on my face, right?

So that's one thing. Second thing, yes, it's always better to draft next years like nuke running backs for lack of hyperproductive running backs. It's always better to draft next years in the startups because they're always cheaper, right? Saquan just did it this last year. Yeah, it's more likely that he does it than necessarily any other running back next year. But you're getting massive discounts on a lot of these other really good profiles. And the obvious, obvious example to me going like eight or so picks later is just Devon H.N.

I am just going to continually tell this guy, I guess. In games with Tuotunga Vailoa, Achan outscored Seekwon Barkley this year. He was the RB1 in games that two have started. But he does catch the passes if you're that concerned about the archetype stuff. I don't think his odds of totally nuking next year are significantly lower than Saquan Barclays. So your easy pivot is an H-N. Yeah, I don't mind some of those other pivots to like even a Ken Walker or a Josh Jacobs

further down the board guys that have shown at least a skill set that can average like high-end RB1 numbers. Yeah, that's kind of it. So, yeah, just to recap, don't care about the archetype, but you're always better off just taking advantage of the market in a given year. When you're trying to win, just be ahead of the curve. Pick the shots on the guys that didn't just show it last year necessarily, but have high odds to do it this year.

That's because you're always getting a discount. Yeah. It's not about the archetype of the player. It's more about the archetype of the build. And the build matters when you're trying to take value picks. in startups. We did a quick break. When we come back,

I'm going to hit you with my least valuable pick in startups right now because dude's just getting a ton of grace right now. So quick break, when we come back, we're going to keep diving right in to picks before we get into bonus picks. Not going to want to miss it.

My worst value pick on the board right now is probably if I looked at all the picks that we're making, the most likely to blow up in my face. just because of pedigree and where they were drafted, et cetera, but we are not punishing Marvin Harrison Jr. at all for finishing with the same points per game as Quinn Johnston did this year at 11.6 points per game.

There is almost no discount for a player who in Superflex 101 rookie drafts and was going at the 201 turn last year in, not even that long ago, guys. From May through August, the prime draft season, in my opinion, post-NFL draft, so that everyone's getting in there.

He was the 201, 201, 202, and then now he's just going at the, what, the 210, 211, the 23rd pick. He was bad. And there's a lot. of reasons why he was bad was it the system was it the role was he just two inches too tall and he got tight cast there's been a whole lot of reason now keep in mind touchdowns are not the stickiest stat right we know this you've done great work on this it's not high in your list of

stats that are sticky and it boosted his points per game to where it is it would be Even worse, which is the scary thing. Now, he has a top 12 quarterback. Kyler Murray has been a top 12 quarterback every year that he's played. And not just top 12. This is like the first year he's finished outside of the top 10 in points per game whenever he's been healthy and whenever he's played in a season. This is it.

It was the first time. So it could get better. I agree. Absolutely. But what you're doing, in such a failed rookie we have multiple wide receivers in this class that outperformed him

and he's still, Ladd McConkey going after Marvin Harrison Jr. It's still so odd to me given we know what his role is, how damn good he has been. I think if Marvin and Ladd's seasons were reversed, I would understand

this draft position of McConkey wide receiver 12 and Marv wide receiver 9. In fact, Marv being ahead of Jackson Smith and Jigba, A.J. Brown, T. Higgins, Rishi Rice, Devontas Smith, I have questions there. Because you are...

If Marv had Ladd's season, he would be going at like the 106, to be clear. Agreed. Agreed. Without a doubt, Ryan. And that is one of the things that is bothering me so much. We are doing this based off projections of a sophomore improvement at a level that would be,

what would he actually have to do? right 17 and a half points per game to justify this if you look at the top 12 wide receivers that's about where he'd have to be and keep in mind this was a quote down year for wide receivers so now he's going to have to do this and what a bounce back year for wide receivers hopefully but quarterback i saw your post a quarterback point differential was up wide receivers were down it was a bad year for injuries you got to assume if this trajectory stands for quarterback production wide receiver production should jump across the board and now he even has to beat out a new wave of rookies. I saw Daniel Jeremiah's mock draft, Ted McMillan going to Carolina. If Bryce Young plays the way Bryce Young did at the end of the year, and Ted is Drake London, Marv could have a hard time beating out.

Just relax. Hear me out here. If he is, because that's the comp, right? That's just a fat-ass receiver. We can't toss or we can't toss Drake London comes out. I'll willy-nilly like that. That's just that's what. his comp is. We comp any contested catch guy to Drake London. That's how this works. Well, this is

what Brett Whitefield said himself, so I'm taking it straight from Brett when he was on our show, right? What I'm saying is basically, there's a world where Tet finishes at 12, 13 points per game, maybe more. We don't know. So now he even has to compete with rookies that are coming in. Now, that's just a whatever, maybe if scenario. But imagine a year where Marv doesn't beat the incoming rookies, let alone guys that are on the board now. Drake London and Garrett Wilson, we have been begging for them to score points, and they did. They absolutely smashed this year. Garrett Wilson was a couple, I will say deliberate Aaron Rogers mist throws away, because how does he

miss him that wide open ever when he's never done it in his career? He was probably just establishing dominance, but I digress. You have lad who outperformed him in his rookie year. J.S.N. broke out. AJ Brown, we know is good. That was kind of a weird year. Rishie Rice, phenomenal in his games.

T. Higgins. I mean, you don't got to twist Bucks on very hard to talk about recent birthday boy T. Higgins. Rome with the potential in the new offense. Zay Flowers in his second year was better than

Marv. Devontas Smith had another great year. All-time Eagles playoff receiver. Worthy. More, Addison, all of these guys. Wide receiver is so nice this year. When you're clicking on Marvin Harrison, Jr., doing it strictly based off of draft capital at this point and pure projection.

But to me, there's nothing there that indicates we should be projecting him at this evaluation for a year two. To me, Marvin Harrison Jr. Wide Receiver 9 is built on hope. And look, I understand, like they say in Star Wars, right? Rebellion was built on hope. Well, I'm not rebelling for Marvin Harrison's price. I'm swatting it down.

I'm not clicking the button. I said last year on this podcast, Ryan, and I'm not sure if you quite remember this, I said that when you're drafting Marvin Harrison to 201, you are drafting him at his ceiling. you were drafting him at his projected ceiling and it didn't work and it not only didn't work but he was like the 11th best rookie

from the players this year maybe 10th right you had the quarterback so we don't know about McCarthy didn't really get to play so that one's kind of cheap maybe 9th I don't know here's the thing though here's the thing though you say that and you're you're absolutely correct you did draft him at his ceiling at the 201

did you really get that punished for it? Like you got made fun of on Twitter all year. Like Sam Sherman tweeted a lot of mean things about you if you drafted Marv there. But he's at a 210, 211 value in startups today. Did you really lose out that much? And that's kind of the same argument I'm going to make in favor of him right now. If Mark, I think it's very likely that Marv has a better season in year two. I've talked about the year two wide receiver leap, done all this research on it, blah, blah, blah.

I think it's likely he's better next year. Regardless, even if he isn't or even if he's still fairly mediocre, we've seen this with so many players where they just have this intrinsic dynasty value based on people's takes on them as a prospect is really what it comes down to. Not that that's always misguided either. It definitely has worked out for guys in the long run to hold dynasty value and they finally start scoring fantasy points. But yeah, I think you can be on almost like to say it in a mean way, the Kyle Pitts trajectory with Marvin Harrison, where even if he isn't producing that well, he's probably still going to hold dynasty value to some extent at the very least. the third, fourth round or whatever. If he has like a mediocre 12, 13 fantasy point per game season next year, that's exactly what I would expect.

Or to say it in a nice way, he can be on the Drake London or the Garrett Wilson track where it's like, okay, we both or we all kind of as a community recognize that these guys are really good because we see the peripheral stats that can somewhat control for quarterback player offensive environment. We watch the tape. We see the guys on the field. they look good to our eyes. And both London and Wilson held dynasty value until this year,

until they actually started scoring fantasy points somewhat. But that's kind of the problem is, yeah, as you say, the alternatives are just too good for me to draft Harrison at the end of the second round. Yeah, I can get the Ladd-McConkey top five in yards per outrun as a rookie, which is insane. I can get just the Drake London or the Garrett Wilson, the guys that have the same intrinsic dynasty value that are now scoring fantasy points. Yeah, we've been waiting years for this to happen, guys, and we're drafting them at the exact same spot now that they're scoring fantasy points. Yeah, I don't get it.

Why is Harrison going over them? So yeah, I don't think Harrison is to wrap this up, I guess. I don't think he's anywhere close to the worst dynasty value pick you can make because I think he has a relatively high value for even if things don't go well next year. But in terms of, is he ever someone I'm clicking? No, probably not because I like to score fantasy points and I like to gain dynasty value if I can. That's why he's the worst pick. That's why he's the worst pick. You just said it for me, right?

He might not be the worst for value, but Chris Olivae held a bunch of values. value and his peripherals were great. And now he's losing value because he never hit it. The guys like London and Wilson had great peripherals. Marv doesn't. There's almost nothing in his rookie profile that makes me excited at all in terms of peripherals, which is why I'm saying you're betting on just a projection. And I don't like to do that.

This league is too insane. I saw in the chat, people in Arizona think it's Kyler and not Marv. I think those people. in Arizona have blinders. It's easier to blame the quarterback, not the rookie wide receiver. 100% it's easier to do that. All Kyla Murray has done has been

good for fantasy, period. And again, maybe he's not the best real world quarterback. I don't know. But there's worse. There's way worse. You can go back to having Dobbs.

Like, that's your outcome. Right? There's way worse in terms of quarterback play. So now what does Marv need? Trevor Lawrence is deemed awful by most people at this point. And BTJ didn't just ball out, nuked the near historic levels. I mean,

BTJ nuked with Mack Jones, mostly. That's what I'm saying. It can be worse. So that is part of the, again, I feel like I'm defending Marvin Harrison. Why are you doing this to me, Tom?

I didn't want to do this tonight. But that is, to be fair in terms of like, it's Kyler's fault people. they're right in the sense that Kyler is not a fantasy friendly quarterback for his receiving weapons, right? The scrambles, the rush attempts, anytime you know that, they're taking rush attempts, or excuse me, pass attempts out of the offense. That's never good. Cardinals were, I think, a bottom seven or bottom eight team bypass rate over expectation this year.

You made like a funny comparison to Quentin Johnson's rookie season at the top of that. I think really, yes, that's funny, obviously, like, meme it up. But Quentin Johnson did that with Justin Herbert on an offense that ranked top three and pass rate with Justin Herbert, I think leading the league in dropbacks that year, with Keenan Allen absolutely nuking right next to him. So that was a perfect fantasy scoring environment. Arizona Cardinals, like whatever we think about Kyler as a fantasy quarterback as a fantasy asset, not a good environment for wide receiver scoring.

Now, I obviously will laugh at the irony of that, that we were supposed to prefer Harrison over neighbors because Kyler's better than Daniel Jones or whatever. I understand that that was kind of the debate last summer. I never really thought those situations were all that different. But, I mean, that would be kind of the devil's advocate, the steel man of it's Kyler's fault people. And Kyler just is not an accurate quarterback.

And Drew Petzig seems happy to design an offense around checkdowns to Tray McBride, which, I mean, good for Tray McBride fantasy owners. We're eating well off of that. But yeah, not necessarily like the explosive, pass-heavy offense you want to see. But again, back to your point, why would that change? Nothing is changing in Arizona, organizationally wise. So that's why are we expecting different? Marky's brown at 13 points per game his first year in Arizona before Kyler got hurt.

Okay, Kyler played significantly better pre what was that 22 he tore his ACL? He played significantly better before that. Kyler's pretty much played well every single time he's had a Writers for a 1, an illegitimate Writers for 1. So I think he could support it and he has supported it. I say like I agree with both. I think he should be pushed back closer to like the end of the. the third. But he's not necessarily someone I want to like completely fade because still I still

think he's a good prospect. Still, I believe in a year two bump. And while the profiles aren't great, they're not the worst. I mean, 21% target share. 141, that means like we would like him to assume run some more shallow stuff. 22% targets for outrun and 1.7, 4 yards for outrun under or two, but I would argue that he did more to hold more value than Rome. Like, Rome was way worse of a rookie season. He held a ton of value too. So I would say he held his value more. I think he should, if anything, Rome should be pushed way more down than Marv was.

But I think another thing with Marv is I think he has like Ben Simmons, Jill Okafor Syndrome a little where he's born like 30 years too early because he's, he is, you know, an ex-rece receiver, like a 90s ex-receiver that doesn't move around. That's why it's like, oh, why don't they get him targets on screens and bubbles and do the neighbors? Well, they don't do the neighbor stuff on him because he means not like neighbors. He really can't do it. That's not his archetype. He's never going to do it.

Similar to T. Higgins. Like we talked about, O T. Higgins had no manufacturer touches. Well, he's an ex. Like, he's a deep down the field, no contested catcher-s-s-sever. He's not going to, and now T. T. Higgins is a lot better than Marvin Harrison as a player. a lot better he does the that stuff better than marv so marb has to you know get there but he is a rookie like he is a rookie i think we're spoiled with rookies because the receiver classes since like 20 20

have been just ridiculous we've been saying these rookie seasons from wide receivers just just you know 20 points per game 18 points per game that we expected to be the norm especially with someone with such high prospect pedigree as marv and that doesn't mean i think he should get drafted the 211 like i said i think he should be probably a whole round later and that's why i'll be happy with him but yeah i think if we expect some of them, like, you know, to run him on different type of routes and shorter stuff and, you know, get him the ball like they do with neighbors. If you expect that and you draft him off of that, I think that's a massive mistake because I don't think he'll ever be that. I think he's a shitty version of DeAndre Hopkins, early DeAndre Hopkins right now. Right.

So I do believe a little. I love that you made that comparison. And I do want to just quickly expand on that because, yes, it's true that recently we've been spoiled with all these amazing rookie seasons. But kind of to your point, a lot of them have been off of a lot of the designed and easy touches. I feel like I've been tweeting for two years about how all the rookies are at the top of like the design target rate stats for the last two or three seasons, like your Zayflowers, your JSNs, all of those guys. even back to like kind of the original rookie wide receiver breakout phenom odel beckham junior he had that season just literally just running slants like the entire time that was what obj did his rookie year when he absolutely nuked and and we've seen that shift kind of happen

at the same time that we've seen the NFL shift away from those prototypical ex-boundary receivers to like the faster guys that you're going to scheme up touches for, maybe throw into the slot a bit, that can kind of do it all. And you're right that Marv is very much in that kind of much older receiver mold. And a lot of those older X-type receivers were the ones that had the slower rookie seasons that took a little bit longer to develop. The Andre Hawkins himself being a very good example. Michael Pittman even, I think, had like his biggest leap in year two.

He's just the quickest, easiest guy in the league right now that I can think to compare to that. But yeah, that's what I would keep in mind in terms of its never development is never linear for any receivers. But I do think it's possible. And maybe I should look into this in a research project that Marv's specific archetype is going to be more prone to a slower start in the league. because that's again that's what we always used to see like pre-2014 very rare that any rookie receiver did anything because again a lot of the highly drafted guys were much more in that outside x type of mold i don't hate any of that it's just what does he have to do at that price 14 if you draft marv at the the the 211 are you happy with 14 points are you happy with george

pickens 14 points a game no you're not happy but you're not taking a massive value loss I'm not saying I'm doing it. I think we're on. I'm not. I'm not looking at life. But yeah, it's just, it is what it is. Right. I'm catching up on some of the chats here.

I think the Nico thing is going to be a lot of people as well. Year 3, Nico, Big X, et cetera. Nico's just a really great wide receiver and can do everything. Again, Marv just can't right now, at least not from what we've seen. So these are worst value pick. And look, part of that does come down to, yes, he didn't lose a ton of value, but he never should have been drafted at the 201 anyway. I said that last year.

And now he drafted at the 209, and he has to do a lot to keep that. Like imagine London continues to smash, Wilson continues to smash, Tet smashes. What if Travis Hunter does play wide receiver and Moonlight's as a cornerback? And he goes number two overall.

What's that going to do for his ADP? Like, he is my worst value bet simply because you do still want to win too. And if you draft Marv and you're doing it off projections and it doesn't happen, that's really hard to recover from. You might as well just draft Sequin Barclay. Right? I do want to say, and because you made that comparison that this works perfectly,

I do think just looking at that draft board, if I had to pick out whose ADP here is going to be the most fake when I actually get into the lobbies, especially with people that are kind of in the bubble, like in the Twitter dynasty community, I do think it's going to be Marv, like falling to the, the third round more often than not. I just don't know

like where his boosters are. So yeah, I guess I'm, there's a decent amount of startups in this sample here that you have on screen. But yeah, I really would not be surprised if he's

kind of one of the fastest fallers as we go through January and February and the takes kind of crystallize around these guys a little bit more. Yeah. I agree. I think that's pretty much everything we need to hit with Marv, you kind of got body bag there a little bit. I'm expecting you to have 19 points

per game now, so shout out to him. I'm now going to leave the rest of the Marv bodybagging to High-Low on cashing points next year like he did. No, this year, I'll leave it up to him and let the comments do their thing. We're going to take a quick break.

We come back, we're going to do bonus picks and we're getting out of here in an hour, ish. Sit tight. We'll be right back. So because the goal today was to not have an hour and a half long podcast. You'll be proud, Ryan, last week, Andy and I got out of there and under an hour for the Dynasty Points Market Report, planning to do the same. We're going to

take some bonus picks on the board and talk about why we don't like those picks either. Ryan, we'll start with you. Who is your bonus pick on the board right now? Yeah, so again, just to be clear we're still talking about worst values. So my opponent's pick for worst value is going to be James Cook. So I think James Cook is an above average NFL running back. I think I'll even say he's a good NFL running back. He's explosive. I like what I see from James Cook.

Not saying he sucks. None of that stuff. But him being nestled here in round five, just right next to Christian McCaffrey, ahead of Chase Brown, both guys that I would expect to, out produce him next year. You can argue Cook's value is more stable in terms of his situation. But I disagree based on what we saw this past season. So he averaged only 12.6 expected fantasy points per game. That is like low, low end RB2 stuff. It didn't matter if you were, if you were a James Cook owner, you were happy with this production because he averaged over four fantasy

points over expectation. So just comparing his real fantasy points to his expected fantasy points over four more per game than his expectation based on his volume. That was the fourth highest differential behind only Jamir Gibbs, Seqwan Barclay and Derek Henry. Again, as I said at the beginning, I think Cook's a good player. I don't think he's on the level talent-wise or even like scheme-wise of those fits of Jamir Gibbs, Sequin Barkley, Derek Henry.

So there's going to be a lot of that. I would just chalk up to touchdown variants, right? And to go even further into that, to get a little nerdyer, Cook converted a full 25% of his red zone carries. Anything inside the 20-yard line, one in four chance that he scored a touchdown this past season. That was the highest rate of any running back in the league with 15 or more red zone carries.

Again, like above all of the best undisputed goal line backs in the league, like your Derek Henry's, like your David Montgomery's, your Bejan Robinsons, all the guys we think are the best goal line RBs were outperformed in red zone conversion rate by James Cook this year. And then you just zoom out and look at his overall role. And it's relatively scary, like it to the point where I wouldn't be that shocked if it's just a full-blown committee. when we're entering the season because it kind of already was. He was just the RV 37 by SnapShare over the full season, 48% snap share. His target share from his rookie season, or excuse me, from last season to this season goes from 9.3% down to 7.7%.

That's despite the team losing digs, despite there being less target competition overall, it's Ty Johnson coming on and stealing routes from him, like complete total jag nobody that is, on the practice squad, essentially that level of talent on any team in the league can come in and steal routes and targets from James Cook. I'm not liking that at all. And finally, the biggest thing is you can just draft Ken Walker around later, who has relatively similar draft capital pedigree, like security as far as his role on the team in the near future.

we have seen Ken Walker take on a Belcow role now at this point in his career. He did it for a good 10 or 12 weeks before he went down to injury. Obviously, Walker was kind of on the opposite end of like the efficiency wheel of depth because he was well below his expectation in terms of his volume, very unlucky in terms of scoring touchdowns, obviously a lot of issues with Seattle's offensive line. But as a talent, I would rate Ken Walker just in a vacuum over a James Cook. I can get him around later.

We've, again, seen him have a real bell cow roll. So, yeah, pretty much just no interest at all in James Cook. And yeah, if you're just going for max, if you're production maxing, you're clicking McCaffrey or Chase Brown there every time too. So I just see no reason why Cook goes in the fifth. I love it. Bill's Mafia won't, but I love it. He's just always a player. I'm hesitant to click on.

He's definitely more available in established leagues. Buck, your bonus pick? My bonus pick is Jordan Love. He's the quarterback 11 at Pick 27. He was the quarterback 14 and points per game. 19.7, which I thought was a little down because the 23 quarterback 14, average 21 points per game, almost 22, was Russ. The main thing with Jordan Love is the rushing.

It's non-existently. He had one game over 18 rushing yards. It could be an injury-related thing because last season, season, his first season starting. He had six games over 20. So he did have the ankle in week one. He missed a couple weeks, came back. But he only gave you two top 10 weekly finishes. They weren't both in the top five, but six quarterback one weeks throughout the whole season. But the finishes in those weeks were 11, 2, 3, 11, 11, and 12. So just barely making it. Like, he was, if this was redraft, that's like pretty much streamer right there.

He only had one 300-yard passing game throughout the whole season. And then it really dropped. off when they decided to go to really just really go to the Josh Jacobs offense from week 11 to 17 he never top 30 passing attempts it was 30 that was mostly through and then the playoff game he trailed he threw three picks and only through 33 times so I'm not sure if this is going to be you know the scheme change for them and they're going to go run heavy for the you know next year the weapons are bad like we it was the whole day have three wide receiver ones right that was like the whole thing on twitter like packers twitter we have three wide receiver ones we have all the young guys like like they all kind of suck.

Let's just like, to be honest, they need a guy. And if they do end up getting a guy, I don't know where they pick in the draft. I was in the playoffs, so they're in the 20s somewhere. Probably won't be in the draft. They also have kind of been like frugal to spend money, especially at that position ever since Savante Adams.

Maybe it is Samantha Adams that they get come back. But if they add a legit wide receiver through trade or, like I said, I don't know what I think of a draft through a trade, maybe you'll see his value tick up. But my main thing, my main takeaway of Jordan Love, was, you know, pick 27. I'd rather just pick Baker and Purdy.

The quarterback 14 and 15 picks 41 and 42. So you could get a whole different player and then just punt another round. I just don't think Jordan Love should be, you know, what's that, like 15 picks ahead of them. I don't see a reason for that. And he's not, you know, he's 27 years old. So it's not like he's super young. I know he's only going to do his third season. But really just, it's really hard to draft a guy who doesn't run like that high.

Nope. I agree. I love that. I have no arguments here. Ryan was doing the like smiling but crying behind meme. Every time you talk about the Packers wide receiver stuck. I saw the look on his face change when you said it. And Ryan was like,

I did have to bite my tongue to not defend Christian Watson's honor there for a second. It looked like you did the Chicago Bulls like. Yeah. There were a lot of, uh, there were a lot of stats and tweets like just rolling through my brain as I was. Watson misses next season. We don't have to pick that fight. That's fun.

I get a year off from arguing. I caught it. It was small, but I caught the facial expression there. I saw it. I kind of want like this would be a good prop for the show. If I could just have that mask like the like say less. I'll get it.

You're like, yeah, you're like smiling but like crying behind it. I will find someone with 3D printed. Yeah, I love it. that. I kind of need that like on my desk to deploy it on the tune moments I feel like.

I love it. My bonus pick I'm going back to the quarterbacks. People wanted me to expand on the late round quarterback scenario this year because it's kind of stinky this year with how the picks are kind of working themselves out

but I look at this draft board and I'm thinking usually I've spent four straight picks on a wide receiver. I want to have an anchor for my quarterback one if I passed on like Kyler Murray or Baker because like a wide receiver like T. Higgins is just calling my name. And then I look on the board. I see Michael Penix, the first pick of the fifth round.

Now look, guys, I was on Twitter making the arguments that you should have drafted Pennix. no-brainer. He never should have got past the 204. Even the 202, he was a great bet because he was going to do what? Gain value. Oh, boy, is he gained value. He has gained value at an astronomical rate for somebody that had a cup of coffee in the league. He was the quarterback 27 last year in the ninth round. End of the ninth round. And now he's the first pick in the fifth round. Quarterback's going after him right now. Trevor Lawrence, Dack, Bryce Young, who showed out at the end of the year to the tune of multiple rushing touchdowns, hit 300 rushing yards, if I'm not mistaken,

or just under it, which is to me the benchmark, the near Ryan Fitzpatrick benchmark that you need to hit for me. Penix is not going to be that guy. J.J. McCarthy is still sitting there quarterback 21. We know how much I like J.J. McCarthy would much rather have him. But then you even get Tua in the sixth round. Like if I'm going to saw a lefty with that archetype, I'll just take Tua. And I don't even want to do that. He's just an insane pick to me there.

He would have to be your anchor at that point. If you're taking him as your QB2 in the fifth round, you are planting a flag for no reason. Now I understand that when you get into the late round quarterbacks, there is not that many. I have been pro draft quarterbacks in the late round. I take one quarterback early. Buck makes fun of me because he calls them my shit quarterback teams.

And we're out here starting Tyler Huntley at the end of the year because sometimes that's how it works. Now there have been years. You got Jordan Love in the 19th round. You can get Brock Purdy in the 14th round, even after he started games. You could get him in that 14th round. You could even get them towards the night. Danny Dimes had given you a couple of years.

You could have drafted the Sam Havis. Owls. You could have drafted the Gino Smiths, the Matthew Staffords, the Aaron Rogers. And they would have worked out this year, that list very small. Maybe Russell Wilson gets to play. Maybe Kurt Cousins gets to play. But they were awful. Derek Carr talks to him being traded, possibly, maybe. I don't know. Definitely going to play, though, given his contract. I assume he's playing in New Orleans. He is a good pick there with 14. But the late, late guys, Who's there? Will Levis? I don't think so. That giant starter.

Yeah. You mean Mack Jones? So there's there's one. Mac Jones. Go back four-old. Deshawn Watson. He was one, but he tore his Achilles the second time. There's no way I'm touching him at quarterback 38. James Winston is just bad. He's probably not going to get to play. Like, who's it going to be? Joe. There is not. Well, Milton's one. They're not trading in, though.

So it's like he's quarterback 35. Rattler, I don't know. Like the late round quarterback strategy is not as fruitful this time of year. Right now it's Justin Fields. He's the one guy that I want every draft in terms of the late round. But there is no viable in my opinion. Sure. If you draft Stafford, he could call it.

I don't think he will, but he talked about it last year. So now you're on a year to year. There's no way. So then if you're looking at Michael Pennix in the, in the start of the fifth round, he's going to be your anchor for your late quarterback strategy. You're rolling the dice unnecessarily.

You don't have to do that. There's just other quarterbacks that are a little bit better bets. Yes, he absolutely went off in the last game. And what else do I talk about on this podcast all the time? The last image you have of that player

is going to set the tone for his value for the rest of the off season. That last couple of games for Pennix looked phenomenal. But he also looked bad. Like, we talked about it before. If London had actually gotten to catch all the passes he was wide open for and thrown at, he would be in the middle of the second ride.

That dude would have 14 catches for 220 yards and three in that last game alone. So, Pennix, yes, rookie year came in late, didn't look great. His deficiencies as a prospect showed its, showed their ugly head. But going ahead of Trevor Lawrence, who, yes, I've made fun of for years when he was a second round pick, but I said when we did the mock draft buck that he should be going in that mid-second is the offensive coach is coming. Cohen is coming. Someone was coming. Ben Johnson at the time when we did that mock draft. Now, I don't know if he's ever going to get up to there. It looks like Herbert took that spot. But Trevor Lawrence definitely the better bet.

Dak, the better bet. I would argue Bryce Young's the better bet. J.J. McCarthy, the better bet. AR to me I'm still I'm not I don't want to touch I don't want to touch AR in the sixth round I don't but if you're asking me would I rather take one of

like Devontas Smith Zay Flowers or J.J.M. McCarthy and then gun to my head have to take AR or just draft penics I will play Russian roulette with the bullet because I at least they both could have eight points

they could both be not starters in a year or two, and they could both put up, what, 24? Maybe Richardson has an even higher ceiling if he completes four of his 21 passes and scores on one of them and then gets two rushing touchdowns? I don't know.

But I'm off the rails now. But Pennix, the first pick of the fifth round, I can't do it. He was not good enough in a small sample size and add the fact that it was a small sample size, small sample size for a quarterback that doesn't run. Two is there at quarterback 23. DAC is there at QB19.

And like I said, McCarthy and even Bryce Young, who I ragged on a lot last year. Looked good with only Adam Thielen. So take that for what you will. I don't know. But the first pick of the fifth round, that is a significant piece. I can't do it at the 5-1.

to me that's terrible. That is a terrible, terrible, terrible pick. That's going to do it. Anything to add? Anyone want to add anything before we get out of here? No, I agree on the Pennix stuff. I think I'm not pretending to be a film guy or anything like that, but I thought he looked really bad.

Like you mentioned, I thought he looked really bad. I think the team did him a big disservice, not starting him way earlier, you know, before the buy. I agree. Yeah. That's neither here nor there. I think since we didn't expect him to play as early as he did, and he was super pushed back in Dynasty and rookie drafts and everything,

it seems like that he did play. I feel like we're like ignoring all the how bad he was as a prospect and how he doesn't run. It seems like we threw all that out the window already and just threw this dude up to the early fifth round. Because he doesn't have like much upside realistically. He's just a new like a new name. So it's like we rather just draft. you know, draft the new name. So I agree with you.

I think he's a definite fade there. But, you know, if you got him, you know, before that, definitely a good value on that. But, yeah, I just, I thought like that one throw you see all over Twitter. It's like, oh, you know, only three players in the league can make this thrown. It's him throwing the ball to the dude on the sidelines, the shitty wide receiver that wears the. Right. Yeah, yeah, I really think he was still that ball to cap of piss.

Yeah, I agree. Brett talked about that on first read. They weren't totally sure either. because that the DB had like almost couldn't believe that he threw it like it was so late that he was like did he actually so I remember that too that's a that's a great but I agree we're just throwing stuff out the door because yeah you're right he's a new name and he's 24 he's going to be 25 at the start of the year you're not even getting an age j j micriths turning 22 i'll have to check with my birthday consultant andy buckler on when that is but i know it's

going to be you know i don't know i don't need the knee stuff too like this dude had two 20s yeah in in college that was the main that was main reason i couldn't people can even believe he was going to first round pick let alone you know top eight pick so it's right a lot of revision history on that i do agree meme and everything and i agree with usually when you're like of a player as a meme on twitter i want to buy but i'm not buying now it's already too late it was too late the minute he gained back to first round rookie pick value. It was too late. So I like him and I want him, but not at these prices is insane. Let's answer TD's question before we get out of here. Last thing we're going to do today for TD, astronomical

rebuild. Big time rebuild. How do we feel about my Jordan love for their Bryce Young in a 27-1? I'll take this. Me too. Me too. I'll accept it. I'm a lot lower on Bryce Young. I'm glad he looked legitimately really good to the second half after my goat, Radarious Wave, revived his entire career. So I will take it, especially in, you said astronomical rebuild. I think it's a really good trade if you can pull it off. They're, you know, they're not even that far apart. So they get a whole first. And, you know, a first word upside tier is out.

I really like it. They're not that far off. Yeah. Quarterback 14 to 26, six positional spots for a first. I think that's a smash. I think it's fine on a rebuild. I think I'd prefer to keep love in a vacuum. But if you want to play like the Bryce Young game,

that's not like the worst I think it's more about that 271 for a rebuilder in my opinion yeah but I mean like we talk about this all the time you're never mad when the first conveys you're never like oh man I really overpaid for that first I don't think it's that likely you're like oh man I'm really I'm really happy I have a random 27 first over Jordan Love two years from now but that's that might just be me I think it's to fund value into the future though.

Yeah, I think you can also just use, like, Bryce Young's going to be like a decent player with the off season. They're going to add to the offense, so you could flip him again. Yeah, that's agreed. Yep. Agreed. I love that. That's going to do it for the show today. Remember to like, subscribe when this episode is over.

As soon as we hit that end button on YouTube, leave a comment. Let us know if you agreed, disagreed. Let us know what we can do and provide for you guys in terms of content. Obviously, the market report this weekend, we're talking about ranks. Theo is in Mobile.

He will not join the three of us. The three of us will have our first ranks podcast for Dynasty Points Market Report. That'll be out Saturday morning. I'm excited for that. I've been excited for this show. Keep your eye out for more. Dynasty Trade videos,

players to avoid strategy type videos. I think we're going to do early, draft position strategies drafting from the one, two, three, et cetera, down to 12. That's something I want to start getting into as well. Can't wait for that. Last thing I'm going to say, mock drafts. If you guys want us to start doing rookie mock drafts or startup mock drafts, we don't want to just sit here and click the buttons.

We want it to be engaging. If you are interested in doing a live mock draft for this podcast, in the coming weeks, hit the Discord and let us know so we can assemble a team, get a time put together, and we will do the mock drafts with you guys.

So it's not just us drafting against each other, gets you guys more involved, gets everybody a little bit more into it, and everyone has a little bit of fun with it. But that being said, for Andy Buckler at Andy underscore Buckler, for Ryan Heath, Ryan J. underscore Heath,

for myself, Tom Tipple, at El Nostra Thomas. I want to thank everyone for listening. We almost did it in an hour. Hour and 15 still pretty damn good. Somebody did say, though, we are at our best when we're at two hours. I don't know if we're at our best,

but we're definitely at our most delusional. And where there's delusion, there's hope. Remember to check in on your loved ones, even if you're not sure if they need it. Remember that clear arts, full hearts can never lose in your best days. God damn.

They're always spent tilting. Good night, everybody.