Fantasy Football Today - Beyond the Box Score: Buy Low Players and Struggling RBs (11/07 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

Starting the show with a recap of Titans-Chiefs (2:55) and some Mecole Hardman talk. Are we buying Hardman? Can you drop every Chiefs running back? Then we'll give you the big news (8:40) on Aaron Jones, the Colts offense and more ... A look at the advanced stats that caught our eye in Week 9 (12:50). We've got stats on Jeff Wilson, Josh Jacobs, Amon-Ra St. Brown, David Montgomery and Rondale Moore among others ... Four Big Topics! Justin Fields or Justin Herbert rest of season (34:05)? Is Leonard Fournette washed up (41:00)? Will some of the prominent struggling RBs like D'Andre Swift and Jonathan Taylor get back to their old selves (46:15)? What do we think about T.J. Hockenson right now (51:45)? ... Email us at [e-mail] Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. It is time for everyone's favorite Monday football tradition, Beyond the Box score, of course. Welcome to the show, everybody, here on this Monday afternoon. Adam Azer, Dan Schneier, and Jacob Gibbs. Simple stats, or no, advanced stats from simple people. Can't even get the tagline right. This is Beyond the Box score.

We'll tell you about the advanced stuff under the hood from week nine, things you need to know about. Of course, snap shares, but target per route run and all these things that you never even heard of that you're going to find very interesting here. Plus our four big topics today, Justin Fields versus Justin Herbert, James Conner, Leonard Fournette, David Montgomery, TJ Hawkinson. They're all part of four big topics.

So we welcome you and hope you had an awesome football Sunday and are ready for a little Monday Night Football tonight. It could be a good game. All right, Jacob, welcome back to the show. You are always in a new location, always looking different on video. But that's okay. We're glad to have you here. How are you doing?

I'm doing good, man. We got to see 78 Patrick Mahomes dropbacks this week. So I cannot complain. Chiefs not got to win. Pretty wild week. Pretty fun week. 68 pass attempts, career high. 43 completions, career high.

63 rushing yards, career high. Third most passing yards of his career, 446 for Patrick Mahomes en route to another 30-plus fantasy point game. Oh, Dan Schneier. Yes. Xavier McKinney. You shouldn't go on an ATV during this season. 30 plus fantasy point game. Oh, Dan Schneier. Xavier McKinney. You shouldn't be.

You shouldn't go on an ATV during this season. This feels like a very old manny take from you. Adam, I'm going to be honest with you. Look, he's on vacation. He's on his bye week. It was a guided ATV tour. What do you want these guys to do? Nothing. Just sit there and hang out at home during the bye week.

Take a walking tour. Take a walking tour. Go on a tour bus don't atv i don't know i don't know man atv is a little well i will say this one thing interesting about that xavier mckinney has been the iron man for the giants hasn't missed a snap since week three of last season and in his contract there is a clause about not riding atvs specifically atvs so and that i think it's in a lot of athletes' contracts, actually, because there's been issues with it. So maybe that will come back to haunt him. I hope not.

I like him. He made a mistake. He's a young kid. Yeah, it's okay. It's a mistake. We're disappointing. We're disappointed. He's a great football player.

He's a big loss for the Giants. Anyway, we'll tell you about the other injuries. We'll update you on Aaron Jones. We'll update you on Romeo Dobbs. He's out four to six weeks. Just updated you on that. Another big injury for the on Romeo Dobbs. He's out four to six weeks. Just updated you on that. Another big injury for the Packers, actually. David Njoku update.

And a lot more. Okay, let's talk about last night's game. Kansas City dominated time of possession. They had the ball for 41 minutes and 28 seconds. Tennessee for 26 minutes and 23 seconds. Chiefs win in overtime, 20 to 17. A little splash of Kadarius Toney, but a lot of Juju and Kelsey and Jacob. Give me. Chiefs win in overtime 20 to 17. A little splash of Kadarius, Tony, but a lot of Juju and Kelsey and Jacob, give me your Chiefs takeaways.

We saw one target for Marquez Valdez-Scanling on 56 routes run, which is really, really impressive. I'm just ready to be done with MVS personally, as someone who watches the chiefs um and also for fantasy is so boring like i i want to get cadareous tony out there more i want to get skim more out there um the run game is so ineffective right now jerek mckinnon like completely dominated the snap rate um in the red zone and elsewhere um i don't know. Like, is there anyone on the chiefs that we feel good about other than Kelsey and Juju? That's pretty much it right now, right?

My homes. But I, I think, I think Hardman is like, yeah, drop MVS, maybe a stash Tony and see what happens. If he gains more playing time,

you couldn't have expected him to be good in week one. The running backs are, you know, you hope for a CEH touchdown or something, but what do you guys think about Mecole Hardman? This was nine targets was a season high. But of course, we had a career high 68 pass attempts for Mahomes. But I don't know.

I mean, he had a very good game. Six catches, 79 yards and a touchdown on nine targets. And now that's 12, 13.2, 28 PPR fantasy points in the three games before this. And if I do some quick math, this is 19.9 PPR fantasy points. So Hardman is 56% rostered. Anybody eager to pick him up?

I'm definitely going to be eager to pick up Hardman. For me, it comes down to one thing and one thing only. In the red zone, the Chiefs were kind of the creators of this. And now a lot of teams have tried to mimic them some more successful than others but we remember like those long drawn out plays where mahomes is running around and then make some crazy play in red zone but the reality is most of what the chiefs are trying to do and what they do do is quick game in the red zone and to utilize quick game to its fullest extent you need a speed type athletic

twitch type player like a tyree kill and now like a McCall Hardman, I feel like they're starting to really realize and utilize what he can be in the red zone for them as just a speed weapon. You use all this pre-snap motion, some post-snap motion, misdirection, misdirection, hit McCall Hardman right in the flat, get it out of my home's hand and let him do the work with the speed. And so I really like what I've seen from him in the red zone lately. And that to me can carry him to some kind of floor for fantasy moving forward. Cause it's a team that from him in the red zone lately, and that, to me, can carry him to some kind of floor for fantasy moving forward because it's a team that's always in the red zone.

So I actually like Hardman a decent amount moving forward. Okay. I mean, certainly I'm dropping MVS for him. Would you guys rather have Darnell Mooney or Mikko Hardman? I'd rather have Mooney. It's close. Yeah, Chicago's offenses look pretty good lately, and Mooney's per-out rates have been solid all year. I would just say on Dan's note on Hardman, It's close. Yeah, Chicago's offenses look pretty good lately. And Mooney's per-route rates have been solid all year. I would just say on Dan's note on Hardman,

he's third on the team in targets just behind Juju in the red zone. He's been targeted on 26% of his routes in the red zone, which is the highest on the team. And his average depth of target is only two yards because so much of it is just the little touch passes and just finding quick ways, screens to get the ball in his hands. And they've kind of always liked him in that role when Tyreek was there. That's kind of how they used him.

They'd bring him in for those types of plays specifically. So it could stick, the touchdowns. Okay. All right, and I think the Titans are about the easiest team you can analyze. They're a one-man band. I'll say, obviously, I didn't tell anyone to sit Derrick Henry, but I said I would have ranked him closer to 10th this week instead of, you know, top five,

because I thought they'd get blown out, honestly, with Malik Willis. And he had a pretty underwhelming track record in games that the Titans got blown out in. But pleasant surprise that this game was so competitive. Titans defense played really well, and Henry had 17 carries, 115 yards, and two touchdowns. He did not have a catch, but hopefully Tannehill

can change that if Tannehill comes back next week against the Broncos. All right. It is news and notes, then stats, then our four big topics. We usually have five big topics. I'm going to shorten it to four big topics. Shorten the length of the episode a little bit here, but I want to tell you about Sportsline.

Jacob works for Sportsline. Sportsline's part of our company. And there he's got a Sportsline shirt on. Go to sportsline.com. It's very affordable. There's a monthly fee, but it's basically not. It's very, very low. And you get great advice.

You get fantasy advice, but you get a lot of gambling advice. So if you love gambling, there's really no better way to get an edge. We have just tremendous experts with so much experience that are doing really well and can help you do really well. So go to Sportsline.com. Also, go to our merchandise store. You can just Google search CBSSports.com, Fantasy Football Today, CBS Sports Store.

If you Google that, or as Dan, you Bing that, ask Jeeves, whatever it is. What are you trying to say? You're the one who brought up Bing, you know, ask Jeeves, whatever it is. Don't you? What are you trying to say? You're the one who brought up Bing, Adam. You use Jeeves. Don't you? No one in their right mind uses anything but Google.

But also, why would Bing ever be the second reference? Has anyone ever used Bing before? I've used Bing. Yourself included? I've used it. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to see.

What kind of desperate state of mind did you have to be in? When it first came out, I wanted to see, you know, how did the search results compare? Did you? Really? You were curious? I was curious, very curious. Anyway, whatever search engine you use, just type in Fantasy Football Today CBS Sports Store and use our code FANTASYFOOTBALL20. Buy some merchandise, get some FFT gear,

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The Colts fired Frank Reich, and they named their former center Jeff Saturday, who's an ESPN analyst, as their interim head coach. They have the Raiders next week. And, yeah, do you think this will have any fantasy impact, Dan, the Colts replacing Frank Reich with Jeff Saturday? In the immediate, I actually do, Adam. Do you want to know why?

No. I just want to keep it open-ended.'t we just they're going to go into this game all right all right you know what relax over there all right you're very on the edge of your seat today very antsy give me a break let me set let me settle in a little bit okay deliver my point my point is being this for this game coming up this sunday the colts will not have a single person on that staff who has ever called offensive plays in game. That to me is wild to begin with. So we're getting a purely first time play call. They have to get the calls in.

They have to work through the sheet. They have to make the calls in a basically of no time. You just have to reel off, spit off calls. I'm sure some of these guys might have had some experience with similar type things, but as far as calling the offensive plays, they don't have anyone.

So bang all those Colts unders for this week, sit all your Colts players for this week. And I think it's going to be an Epic disaster on offense for the Colts for this first game. I wonder if they go back to Matt Ryan and that would have a fantasy impact because then you'd have, you think that Ursae would be willing to do that given the fact that, and I don't want to say this because I don't want to put, you know, I don't want to make an accusation, but it does feel very tanky with what's been going on here. You know, you hire Jeff Saturday, you don't want to say this because I don't want to put, you know, I don't want to make an accusation, but it does feel very tanky with what's been going on here. You know, you hire Jeff Saturday.

You don't have anyone who's called offensive plays for a game. You bench Matt Ryan for Sam Ellinger, who's clearly not a NFL quarterback. So I just feel like in a lost season, they're almost going to maybe lean into the Ellinger. I have no, I'm just saying that if they go back to Matt Ryan, it would have a fantasy impact. It would be good for fantasy. This is not an offense that we want right now. This Sam Ellinger offense. It's no. Okay. Be good for Pittman.

Sean. Yeah. It'd be good for the running backs too. In PPR. Sean McVay said things need to change on offense and we'll see if they, maybe they sign Odell Beckham. Maybe they start throwing into Tyler Higbee again, who's once again, not running routes 15 to 20 routes in three straight games. Seeing things need to change. Let's hope they can make those changes. Aaron Jones has the ankle injury,

but he has a good chance to play this upcoming week. He may not miss any time. That'd be great. Romeo Dobbs is out four to six weeks with a high ankle sprain. Christian Watson, once again, being evaluated for a concussion. Packers cornerback Eric Stokes left in the second quarter with ankle and knee injuries.

And Rashawn Gary, their linebacker, tore his ACL. He is out for the season. And they've got a couple of offensive line issues. They're a very beat-up team going into this Dallas game. P.J. Walker is going to start. Sam Darnold activated. Baker Mayfield played the second half. But P.J. Walker is going to start. Sam Darnold activated. Baker Mayfield played the second half, but P.J. Walker is going to start this Thursday against Atlanta.

Set your DVRs if you cannot watch the game. Falcons and the Panthers. Who would ever want to miss this game? Deion Jackson left. We don't know about his status. He came back very briefly. David Njoku is hoping to play this week at the Dolphins. Evan Ingram, we'll see.

We'll call him day-to-day with a back injury. Talked about Xavier McKinney for the Giants. He's out several weeks with a hand injury. Their next two games are Houston and Detroit, and then they're at Dallas on Thanksgiving. The Bills got a little bit more banged up. Kier Elam, they're starting, well, I don't know if he's a, I think he's a starting cornerback.

He's a contributor at the very least. He left in the third quarter. And then Gregory Russo, second year edge rusher, he left in the first half. He's going to be week to week. Those are the big ones. Sheldon Rankins for the Jets, defensive tackle. He's out week to week with an elbow injury.

Chargers can't afford any more injuries on the offensive line. Trey Pipkins, their left tackle, he left in the fourth quarter. He played most of the game. I don't know what his status is. Atlanta right guard Chris Lindstrom left in the third quarter. Rayshon Jenkins for the Jaguars, a safety.

He's in the concussion protocol. Tennessee lost Bud Dupree in the third quarter. They could have used him down the stretch for sure. Linebacker Bud Dupree. And Arizona already has the worst run-blocking team

in football according to PFF. Right guard Will Hernandez left in the first quarter. They have had a bunch of injuries on the offensive line. All right, Dan, you can go first. Give me some stats to know from week nine. Yeah.

I don't want to take too many of the ones that Jacob was at. Gave me a heads up ahead of time that he wanted to nail. So I'll going to go into a kind of a deeper waiver wire one to start this off. And it's a player that we talked about a lot on Sunday show, Adam, as somebody we thought we should, you should maybe start, um, if you're desperate receiver and that's Terrace Marshall, the wide receiver at the Panthers. I know a lot of the production came in garbage time, but PJ Walker will start again. And I think that's a good thing for the offense in general. What really stands out to me is that he's starting to get some third and fourth down

targets. I believe he was up to 30% total combined third and fourth down targets. And 60% of the end zone targets this week for the Panthers went to Terrace Marshall. And that's something we saw go up. You know, that's in it. The air yards have kind of been there for him, but we're now starting to see those key money downs, the third downs and the red zone. And that's what we want to see moving forward. So I kind of like him as a fringe flex play someone you should definitely stash on your bench. So I'll start with Terrace Marshall, kind of a more highly known player, obviously somebody you're looking to buy high on instead of this, he won't be on

your waiver wire. But Damian Pierce for the Texans. Obviously, anyone could watch that game against the Eagles on Thursday and talk about the talent. He kind of looks like some people say like a young Marshawn Lynch out there. I don't really see that. But I do see a running back who has arguably the best contact balance that's entered the NFL this season over Kenneth Walker, over Brees Hall. They have other things, but contact balance is a trait that goes to Walker. But what stands out to me is the Texas, right? I'm sorry. That goes to Pierce contact balance. Yeah. I'm giving it to Pierce. Yeah. You said Walker, but just wanted to, Oh, sorry. Yep. I'm going to give it to Pierce. And what stands out to me from a fantasy standpoint, though, is they finally made the commitment to Texans to use him in their two minute no huddle offense.

And that's so important moving forward for fantasy because it's going to give him so many more opportunities to get those 27 touch type games. And I know Lovey Smith talked about how he was so excited to get him that amount of volume in this game. But it was a game where he didn't even score. And yet he still put up a good floor because he's now playing in these two minute drills. He played in a hundred percent of the two minute, no huddle snaps for the Texans. So that was really what stood out to me in this game. He's somebody now, if he's going to be on the field for that level of snaps, we're talking in the Barkley tier.

We're talking in the, you know, the rare McCaffrey, maybe the tier of just running backs who don't come off the field. That's very few these days, few and far in between. So if he can reach that tier, I think it puts him into the locked in RB one range. the tier of just running backs who don't come off the field. That's very few these days, few and far in between. So if he can reach that tier, I think it puts him into the locked-in RB1 range, and he's somebody I'd like to trade for right now. And that's why we do this, because just on paper,

he had no targets against the Eagles. Yep. And I didn't realize that he had played that role. So that's a great stat on Damian Pierce. All right, Jacob, what do you got? Yeah, that's really good stuff on Pierce, and I think maybe it goes a little bit overlooked because it was on Thursday. Um, so I'll start with Rhonda Moore, who I brought up quite a bit on the podcast, but he's just, when he's in the slot role, he's really going to be productive for fantasy, any type of PPR league. Um, so we've seen

him play primarily in the slot and four of six games. And in those games, he has a 24% target share. He has at least eight targets and as double digit PPR points every single game, 70 receiving yards per game. And he's averaging almost 16 PPR points. And that's with just one touchdown. This week, he was targeted on 56% of Arizona's first downs, which is another thing that I bring up quite a bit. So first downs are worth 20%.

First down targets are worth 20% more PPR points than targets come on any other down. And just as an indication, the team is you know trying to be intentional about getting the ball into a player's hands so that's pretty exciting because we've seen deandre hopkins pretty much dominating those looks since he came back but um i think everything we've seen from rondo's is positive and um even if marquise brown is back i think they've run enough uh through receiver sets that he's still going to be pretty, pretty productive for fantasy from the slot there.

They're always trailing and they're always in these three receiver sets. I also, I want to talk about Amonra St. Brown. I think Amonra St. Brown might be one of the better buy lows for, for fantasy. If you're trying to make trades heading into the playoffs or just for DFS purposes, I think he's somebody to continue to target.

Over the past calendar year, he has the highest target per run rate in the NFL above Tyree Kill, Devonta Adams, Cooper Cup, A.J. Brown. It's at 31% over the past calendar year, and it's at 32% this year. And since he's been back, he hasn't put up any big totals yet, which is why I think he might be a good by low candidate. But the volume is absolutely there. He had a 38% target share and an 84% area ordered share this week. 50% of Detroit's first down targets went to a Monterrey this week. And, you know, we've got TG Hawkins out of the equation now and in 233

career routes with TG Hawkinson off of the field, Amonra has a 35% target share and a 41% area audit share. So I think these are really elite rates. And Detroit, their defense is so bad that they're going to be passing a lot in these games. I think he's a potential top five, top eight fantasy receiver. And where do you think his perceived value is right now? It's not that high, right? No, it's really not.

I would say more like 15th. Yeah. Something like that. You know, you could try to trade a DK Metcalf for him. I would do that. We had an interesting discussion,

Alan Lazard versus Christian Kirk. And I think we talked about St. Brown in that same breath on last night's show. But, you know, I'm very enthused about both Lazard and Christian Kirk.

Kirk has amazing matchups coming up. We're calling him a buy high right now. He's just been a matchup dependent guy. He's had some really tough ones and he's struggled. But coming up, he's got four straight games, Christian Kirk against teams that rank 25th or worse against wide receivers. Three of those four games against teams that are bottom 10 or top, I guess they've allowed the 10th most yards to slot wide receivers. They're in the top 10 in that category. So that's looking great for Kirk.

Lazard is completely dominating for the Packers. He is the clear-cut number one. Now Dobbs is out four to six weeks. But Amonra St. Brown, I don't know. Would you take him over those two guys? Let's try to rank those three. Lazard, Kirk, and Amonra St. Brown. I guess I will go first, and I will go Lazard, St. Brown, Kirk.

Dan. St. Brown for sure, the wide receiver one. He was a player I was going to bring up, but I saw Jacob wanted to hit him. I'm all in on this by high. I'm following the volume. I'll go Kirk too. So Lazard three. I like Kirk's volume as well.

Lazard to me, I'm still not sold on this art for whatever reason. I don't know why. No, because it's get on board. I should, I would order them the same way as Dan. Um, I think what we've seen from Lazard has been really encouraging,

but I just, I think the ceiling is pretty limited by the offensive environment. Yeah. Even when green base offenses like operating as they want to, they're still going to play really slow. Um, and just be a pretty low volume offense. Um, so I would clearly take the other two over him and yeah i'm on our like i i really think he could be top eight receiver the rest of the season that wouldn't

surprise me at all um and so he's definitely one of the top buys um the other two guys i have are running back so you ready to move on to them yeah sure so jeff wilson um i think everybody knows like at this point that he played more than Raheem Mostert, and that was really exciting. He out-targeted Raheem Mostert. What I wanted to bring up was that he completely dominated the work in the red zone. He saw 73% of the red zone snaps, 80% of the snaps from inside the 10.

In his first game of the team, in an explosive offense, even if the split doesn't widen and he doesn't continue to take away more work outside of the red zone, if he has this role in this offense, he's going to be viable for fantasy. And there's the potential for much more if he's able to overtake Mostert and earn more of the type of role that Mostert was playing before Wilson got there. What do you guys think about Wilson? He could legitimately be a top 20 fantasy running back from this point on.

Well, I love that take, especially because we haven't even considered the factor of potential Raheem Mostert injury at some point, then that really skyrockets him into the conversation. And I think a lot of this, the reason I like this take by you is because I'm really high on the Dolphins offense. We can talk about that now if we want to, or get to that eventually. But when you're on this kind of offense, that's high as, like you said, as high scoring as it has been, and I think it will continue to be, that gives you so many more of those opportunities. And like you said,

especially when you're getting the red zone touches and you're getting design plays in the red zone as a receiver, like we saw this week, that's a high valuable role, even if he's going to seed some carries to Mostert. And if Mostert gets hurt, then who knows? Yeah, I don't know who I like rest of season. I mean, I guess I'd prefer Mostert. And if Mostert gets hurt, then who knows? Yeah, I don't know who I like rest of season. I mean, I guess I'd prefer Mostert in the short term.

It's really confusing. His first game with the Dolphins, he basically has the same amount of touch, very similar amount of touches, and he has one more snap played than Raheem Mostert. So you said he played more snaps, played one more snap. But that's a pretty big deal for his first game with the team. Mostert played more on third down, but as Jacob just outlined,

Wilson played more in the red zone. The problem was with one game sizes, sample sizes, that could flip next week and it wouldn't shock me. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of a toss-up. I think they're both flexes right now. I do think that Wilson has a chance to overtake Mostert. And yeah, Mostert always has a chance to get hurt. So if you have a chance to get Jeff Wilson in a 10-team league

or something like that, it's a no-brainer. And yeah, the offense is ridiculously good. They have what score? They've scored 20, 42, 21, 16, 31, and 35 points in the six healthy games with Tua. But right now they're just, they're humming. Okay. Sorry.

They're in shootouts. They're in shootouts all the time too. They're great for fantasy. Great for fantasy. Yeah, exactly. A lot of man in their defense. They're so aggressive, yeah. Jacob, another running back?

Yeah, last one is Josh Jacobs. It's the last two weeks the usage has been down for sure. And I think that's important to point out. Um, I saw in your notes that like, he's losing the passing down role that he had when he was just absolutely going nuts the weeks before that. Um, and so like for, you know, the rest of the season, like that is discouraging. He moves out of like a high-end rb1 to maybe low-end rb1 territory um but like i just want to point out how good he's been 66 of 67 yards this week came after contact he avoided 12 tackles on 17 rushing attempts um and on the year among 21 running backs with at least 100 attempts jacobs ranks tops top three and basically everything um and he's first or second in almost

everything the only one that he's first or second in almost everything. The only one that he's not is rushing EPA per snap, but every other advanced rushing metric that I look at, he's first or second. And just like from a dynasty perspective, I put out dynasty rankings update on sports on last week. And Jacobs was somebody I focused on. He looks the best he's ever looked. And he's always been one of the most potent rushers in the NFL,

but like this has been his best year. And his per route rates as a receiver are really pretty solid. They were that way at Alabama and they haven't as a pro. He just like has never had the usage. I think like it's possible that like if he finds himself in the right landing spot after this year, if he doesn't stay in Vegas, he could be like a top three, top five fantasy running back. Like I think the archetype is there for jacobs and like no one talks about him that way people are so negative about jacobs especially in dynasty um and so yeah i just wanted to bring him up because like the raiders have been disgusting

lately and he's been disappointing lately but like josh jacobs as a player has been insanely good this year and he's still young from a dynasty yeah he's super young they didn't pick up his option so he's probably going somewhere else right yeah it's just a. They didn't pick up his option, so he's probably going somewhere else. Right. Yeah, it's just a shame he didn't play a third down snap in week nine. You talked about the usage, and I don't think they're so bad. I mean, obviously they're not a good team, but I don't think they're a terrible team.

They're better than their record. They should be able to stay competitive and be able to use him plenty. Should be able to get plenty of work, but I'd like to see him get some catches. That was a big part of what he was doing in that three-game stretch where he had more than 30 PPR

fantasy points. Josh Jacobs, the last two weeks has been a combined 19.1 PPR fantasy points at the Saints and at Jacksonville. He's probably a buy low, but even without the third down snaps, he still had three catches last week. He still had four targets the week before in a game

they got blown out and they sat their starters for most of the fourth quarter. He doesn't need the third down snaps to get the catches, but we would love to see those come back, of course. Some snap count things to know about. DeAndre Swift played only 10 snaps. Dan Campbell just said he didn't have a setback and they're hoping

to get him a little bit more involved. I was kind of high on Kalief Raymond. He played 95% of the snaps. He had a terrible game, but he could still be a guy that shows up in a pinch as a number four receiver. James Conner played 71% of the snaps in his first

game back. We'll talk about him a little bit later. David Montgomery crushed Khalil Herbert in snaps 52-21. David Montgomery has played 70% or more of the snaps in four of his last five games. He has 14 to 15 carries in four straight games. He is averaging 3.7 yards per carry on a team that has, according to PFF, they are the second best run blocking team in football. He has a mobile quarterback, which usually helps a running back. David Montgomery has now averaged

3.8 yards per carry or less in three of his four NFL seasons. I am sick and tired of David Montgomery, but apparently the Bears are not. Ramondre Stevenson played 16 snaps on third down. He ran 13 routes. The newcomers, Chase Claypool, 35% of the snaps. Naeem Hines played four snaps. TJ Hawkinson played 91% of the snaps. Bradley Chubb for the Dolphins played 73%.

Kadarius Toney played only nine snaps. Dan talked about Terrace Marshall. I thought it was interesting that he had two end zone targets this week after three last weeks. That's five in the last two games for Terrace Marshall end zone targets. Speaking of end zone targets,

here are a few players who are dominating for their teams. Stefan Diggs has 10. Alan Lazard has 7. Travis Kelsey has 7 end zone targets. None of their teammates have more than 2. So when the Bills, Packers, and Chiefs throw to the end zone,

it almost always goes to Stefan Diggs, Alan Lazard, and Travis Kelsey. One caveat is I do believe Gabe Davis has drawn 2 penalties on end zone targets. So he might be more at like four if those plays counted but whatever um and that's pretty much all i got for that all right those are some advanced stats for you when we come back we'll talk about a very uh provocative youtube poll gonna get people all fired up. Uh-oh.

And Dan's review of the mixtape that I made him. And four big topics. We'll be right back on Fantasy Football today. Did you know 66% of utility damage is caused by not requesting a locate? Don't let your project become part of this statistic. A quick locate request can save you from unexpected downtime, financial penalties, and keep you safe. Don't let avoidable damage cost you time and money.

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Alright, we are back and we'll spend a little bit of time on non-football stuff and then we'll get right back to the football stuff. You know that's how we will roll here on Beyond the Box score. Alright, first our YouTube poll. Which TV

series is the most overrated? Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, or The Sopranos? Most overrated. Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, or The Sopranos. I know. Why does he do this to us? We have to select one. Why would you put this in, Don?

I mean, Tom, first of all, usually you put a fourth option in. So the fact that you only put three options just to make it harder for us, that's not appreciated. Now, having said that i think it has to go to game of thrones right because only the plebs will say that the i don't even know if that's the right word we'll say that soprano's ending was bad it was actually a very strong ending to a show and if you think about it more you understand it and if you listen to some of the interviews from david chase you'll understand the creator of the show breaking bad

obviously that show ended great but But Game of Thrones, man, what a pathetic ending to an unbelievable show. It was tracking to be my second favorite show of all time. Nothing will ever beat the wire. That's a clear one, one. But it was tracking to be my second favorite show of all time through six seasons and season seven and eight when they have to go off book. It's just a total epic collapse. And then we find out later HBO wanted them to do another season, but the show creators wanted it to be done, so they kind of sped it up and rushed it.

And so, for me, it's Game of Thrones for sure. Jacob, how many of these shows have you seen? I've seen all of them. Oh, wow. Adam, don't. No, I was just asking. I haven't seen Sopranos. So, I voted for Game of Thrones.

I have a lot of issues with Game of Thrones. I thought it was overrated even before season seven and eight. Still very good. Well, here's my issue with Game of Thrones. I felt like they spent a really long time on some of the storylines and then sped it up so much. It could have been two seasons shorter. They just wasted a lot of time.

Every single time they were in Meereen, I just wanted to get up get a glass of water go to the bathroom just do anything other than watch the boring ass marine scenes uh and i just didn't love all the storylines i only liked maybe like half the storylines i just i could have used just just the hound would have been great i didn't want to waste time with some of the other stories. That's an exaggeration. And then I felt like Game of Thrones would sort of resort to gore and nudity. I'm not opposed to anything like that, but just if you're judging a show, it's like, I think

things are a little boring right now. Yeah, let's throw in some nudity and some violence and just entertain the plebs, as Dan would call us. I'm not calling us or most people that. If we're just putting a show under the microscope like that, I felt those were some flaws in Game of Thrones.

So I voted for Game of Thrones. And then of course yeah, like the episode where they go north of the wall and they get trapped amongst the White Walkers and they somehow send a raven in light speed. all that stuff was crazy

that they rescued it with the dragon it was just it was an epic collapse post season six but i will say before season six it had an insane run from and i don't know if we're supposed to do spoilers but you just kind of did something right i think you could spoil game at this point you can i mean the stretch where they had the purple wedding the red wedding joffreyffrey's wedding, the ready, obviously the Starks wedding. Like that was just an epic stretch of TV. That was as good as gets. So surprising. If you didn't read the books, no one could kind of see any of that coming.

Right. Like, well, my brother, my brother ruined the red wedding for me. I'll never. I haven't told him this, but I'll never forgive him for it. I wouldn't forgive him either for that, because that was one of the most surprising, shocking moments. Not for me. Yeah. But not for it. I wouldn't forgive him either for that because that was one of the most surprising, shocking moments in TV history. Not for me. But not for you, unfortunately. I didn't even know you had a brother until this point,

but I'm very curious to learn a lot more about him moving forward. This is not a good start for him, though. I'll say that. Can I ask you a question? How old are you, Dan? 33. When you were in middle school, did you watch Spongebob? Of course, yeah. Did you watch Slime Time

Live, like the interstitials to Spongebob? No. It was on during Spongebob. They used to slime people. It was a live studio show. I clearly didn't watch enough Spongebob then, no. Okay, my brother hosted that show. What? Yeah. Oh my god. Is he still on TV now? No, not anymore. Okay.

Okay. I'm very curious to learn more about your brother. Older or younger? He's nine and a half years older than I am. Oh, that's a huge, wow, massive age gap. We have a sister in between. Yeah. Okay. Still a massive age gap.

All right, Jacob, any thoughts on TV here? I don't want to get talking about my family. We got to talk about Adam being the youngest, but this is for another episode. I'm sorry for being the youngest. Jacob's the youngest. I'm the oldest. He's taking a shot there.

Jacob's clearly not a youngest kind of guy. I think it says a lot that we finally learned adam's the youngest of the family um anything to add jacob game of thrones is clearly the worst of that trio um i don't know like overrated because i feel like the other two have to have a higher reputation than game of thrones right people were after the ending yeah so yeah um i don't know overrated. I still would probably choose Game of Thrones, but I might. I'll just throw out a hot take. I personally like Better Call Saul

more than I like Breaking Bad. Ooh, I like that hot take. I quit on it. I regret it. I got to get back into it. The problem with Better Call Saul is a lot of people say it's boring until they wrap up the brother.

Well, where'd you quit? Because I don't want to spoil this for you. Well, yeah, no spoilers? Cause I don't want to spoil this. Well, I, yeah, no, no, no spoilers there. I saw that, but, uh, that's, that was basically the last episode I saw.

I didn't quit. I didn't quit because I was bored. I just didn't, I didn't have a lot of time and I just, you know, it just, it wasn't a priority for me, but I look strong.

It's a good take. Yeah. Let's get back on track. I'm sorry, guys. Um, we'll do, we'll do Dan's music review of the Aerosmith playlist that I made him at the end of the show the end of the show the last thing

we talk about let's get to our four big topics conrad from the evergreen state i do not know what the evergreen state is evergreen state that's here let's see i have horrible guesses every time washington i was gonna say washington i don't know why i might have said i'm not gonna say you weren't gonna say that i have fields and herbert who is better justin fields or justin herbert rest of season and what would be acceptable if i were to trade one one away i am thin at receiver after trading for jamar chase i'm six and three. Who should I try to sell?

Jacob, if you had both Justins, Justin Fields and Justin Herbert, what would you do? That's tough. Without knowing the rest of the roster, if there's any correlation or anything in terms of his receivers, tight ends, I think that it is totally reasonable that Justin Fields could outscore Herbert from this point on.

They both have some favorable matchups coming up, and the rushing we've seen from Fields is unprecedented, and they're starting to get him some more design runs as well, not just scrambles. I would say if you're going to trade Fields, if that's who you end up landing on, I would maybe wait until the next couple weeks weeks. Cause like he's got Detroit and Atlanta up next and it really doesn't get much better than that. Um, but after that he's got the jets, the Packers,

the Eagles and the bills before getting the lions, um, and like the fantasy championship. So that's kind of a buy and a buy. And Herbert doesn't have, I think we should talk about whether or not matchups matter for Justin Fields though. That's interesting, yeah.

Because he just shredded the Cowboys two weeks ago. He scored the most points of any quarterback against the Cowboys. I think the second most of any quarterback against the Patriots three weeks ago. Basically tied with Lamar Jackson for the most points against the Dolphins this past week. It's really weird. He's thrown for 151 and 123 yards in his last two games, and he's been, you know, he's the top quarterback in fantasy over the last five weeks, but I'm sure over the last two weeks

he's also number one. Maybe Burrow, whatever. Yeah, do matchups matter for him when he's going to rush? It looks like his floor is going to be 50 to 60 yards, and his ceiling is over 100 yards, you know. So that's a big question. You have to ask an answer here because after the next two games, the matchups are on paper awful for Justin Fields. Specifically, those teams play a ton of zone, the Eagles,

the Packers and the bills. And that typically means less rushing, um, for quarterbacks and the matchups that he's had recently have all been very man, heavy defenses, um, which, you know, just, it,

it's kind of intuitive that, you know, they're, the defense is not facing you. They're facing away from you more often, and it's a little bit easier to scramble. Um, so that could be something for him in terms of being matchup proof.

Okay. That being said, I'm just looking at this right now. The Bills allowed 73 rushing yards to Lamar Jackson. The Eagles allowed only 42 rushing yards to Kyler Murray. But that's actually kind of a lot for Kyler. I guess maybe it's kind of normal for Kyler. What was the other team we talked about?

Eagles. I got the Eagles, the Bills, the Packers. The Packers have already faced Fields. That was in week two. He had only 20 yards and a rushing touchdown. Daniel Jones had 37 yards. Josh Allen, 49 rushing yards. It's really hard to know.

I would rather have Fields than Herbert rest of season. I don't know when Keenan Allen is coming back. I don't know when Mike Williams is coming back. I watched both of these quarterbacks, um, all their throws from this week. I watched the last two games for Justin Fields.

They are designing play. They are much different. Now his air yards per completion, way down a ton of wide receiver screens, a lot of really easy completions. They're trying to get him some yak. I don't really know if it's working because he's throwing for 140 yards over the last two games per game,

but, but Herbert looked great. I mean, the interception wasn't his fault. He's still incredibly talented, but he's just lacking playmakers. So I'll just say, I'd rather have fields.

His rushing floor is insane. Quarterback sucks this year. And I would not trade Justin Fields. I think you could be trading a league winner. If you trade him, it needs to be for an absolute star. I would trade Justin Herbert before I traded Justin Fields. Dan, what do you think? Yeah, I'm on, I'm on the same camp as Adam as this one. I would be trading Herbert. I would keep keeping fields. The pairs, this is a stat according to rich rebar is just so astounding. I wanted to bring it up. The bears have scored on 53.1% of their drives over the last three weeks. That is an insane number.

It's the highest rate in the league by far. Obviously usually punt have to punt. You have a bunch of punts mixed in, but a big factor in that is what you said. These runs by field, some design, some not. Will some of that come down maybe as they face more zone heavy teams? Maybe, but at the same time, we've seen such a big shift in the philosophy on offense. This is what I wanted to touch on why I like field so much. The bears started last game with their first seven plays using pre-snap motion.

And then a vast majority of plays, they use pre-snap motion, sometimes multiple players in motion, a lot of shotgun motion. They're doing different things to kind of give what we like to call eye candy to the defense, get the defense's eyes moving in one direction, then have the quarterback fields go in another and have kind of an easy completion for him on the left, a little dump down. Like Adam was kind of saying the average depth, the target has come down as well. But I think there's also an opportunity for him to explore more big plays moving forward in his fantasy profile, because they came really close to hitting a big one with Chase Claypool this past week, if not for the pass interference on the defense on a really well layered ball by him, great ball placement. That's probably a big

play to Claypool. So for me fields right now with the way this offense is cooking with the schematic changes they've made to incorporate more of the design rollout game, get the quarterback on the move, give him an option to throw or run. It just makes him such a dynamic weapon for fantasy. And also one final thing to note on the touchdown run he had this week, the long touchdown run, I think he topped that 22.1 miles per hour. Fastest speed of any quarterback. And he now owns the two fastest speeds of any quarterback. I feel like when he came out, based on how they used him in Ohio State, because it was kind of like the same way we've seen from all those Ryan Day offenses, the systems at Ohio State.

It's mostly a passing system. It's mostly drop, shotgun, get the ball out. But I think people kind of didn't really give his athletic profile enough credit. And now we're starting to see that with those two runs, obviously topping out the most speed of any quarterback and what everyone can see with their own eyes when he gets out on the move. The last thing I'll say about this is don't feel obligated to trade either of those guys. You've got two quarterbacks that the league wants. You don't have to strengthen another team's quarterback situation. You could keep them, especially with the possibility that field struggles down the stretch and the possibility that Herbert gets hot down the stretch of his receivers come back. So I know it might,

I mean, especially if you're six and three, as was the question here, maybe you're going to be seven and three. I'm not rushing to make a trade. You know, it's okay to have two great quarterbacks and kind of hoard them a little bit rather than strengthening a potential playoff opponent.

All right. McGuire wants to know, quarterbacks and kind of hoard them a little bit rather than strengthening a potential playoff opponent. All right. McGuire wants to know, I don't know if he's asking about bathing habits, but he just wrote Fournette washed. Is Leonard Fournette washed up? Jacob, if you don't know, Adam has this weird thing

where he thinks you're supposed to say washed up. I have no idea. I'm going to ridicule anyone who says wash. It's not the, it's not the phrase. We don't need to just drop words like that. Uh, Leonard for that.

Yeah, go ahead, Jacob. Did we want to throw out any, uh, wider super trade targets for that guy? Oh, I mean,

sure. Uh, I would say a monorail for sure. And then I think, um, Gabe Davis is interesting. He's got some explosive type of schematic matchups coming up. And obviously, he's coming off a rough week.

And then I think Amari Cooper is somebody who's really interesting as well. With Deshaun coming back, just the underlying data for him has been really strong all year. And if the passing volume increases, he could be like a top 10 receiver down the stretch. And you can get him for cheaper than that. And if you want to take a chance on the Tampa Bay guys and go for it, the volume is there. I have no idea if it's going to turn around. I'm not doing it for Godwin.

I'd do it for Evans, but I need to see something from Godwin first. Instead of these passes at the line of scrimmage, the freaking running back, which might be one of the reasons why Leonard Fournette hasn't gotten a lot of targets in the last few games. So is Leonard Fournette washed up is the question here. Dan, what do you think? I'll start by saying I wasn't too enthused by some of the advanced metrics

and just some of the eye tests, you know, watching him independent of his, you know, supporting cast last season when he was such a fantasy dynamo. I think a lot of his fantasy success came from being on the field, almost every snap, getting almost every red zone touch, getting a ton of checkdowns from Tom Brady, being on an offense that has a healthy and really effective offensive line and being an offense that scores points.

This year, we've lost almost all of that. He's coming off the field for Rashad White. He's not an auto guy around the red zone. He's not an auto guy on passing downs. The offensive line is injured and not performing well. The offense isn't scoring a lot of points. You lost everything there. So I just felt like he was a situation-based play to begin with. Now he's lost his situation. And all we have left is this 235 pound plotter who can't really with no lateral zero lateral

agility. I mean, he still has power. He still has a little bit of upfield burst when he gets vertical, but it's without an offensive line creating holes for him. That's not the profile at running back you want. So I just, that's my take on him. The situation is not what it was. He's not going to be a fantasy Dynamo anymore. He is 22nd per game and non PPR for net is 11th per game in PPR. But the last three games have been particularly worrisome. Eight to nine carries in each game. Three catches, or three targets, three targets. They'd have seven targets in week nine.

That was good. Two, three, and five catches. A bit of an increased role for Rashad White. I don't think it's a fantasy-relevant one, but a bit of it. He took a little bit of third-down share from Fournette. That's getting not even, but it's not completely dominated by Fournette.

I do sort of feel like he's a buy low. People think he sucks. He might, but he still has a very valuable role. It is role-based, but he's much more likely to get a goal line touchdown than Rashad White. He's still going to catch some passes. I would be looking to buy low on him. But I wouldn't, you know, he was a second-round pick.

He's not going to be that good. But if people are so negative on Leonard Fournette, I still think there are some good games ahead. But that's just me. We need more than like 12 touches. That'd be nice. Jacob, where do you stand on Leonard Fournette? Yeah, I think Dan hit it perfectly.

Like Leonard for net is he washed? I was asking myself that like three or four years ago, I feel like. Um, and like, he's never been efficient. That's, that's the thing is like,

you just kind of, we got accustomed to the fact that it didn't matter if he was washed or if he was good. Um, because for fantasy, he got everything he needed to be good for fantasy. And like, he he has kind of lost that like his target per run is a career low he's actually his efficiency as a receiver is like the best it's been in quite some time um and then if you just look at his efficiency metrics compared to rashad white uh he's averaged more yards before

and after contact than rashad white he's avoided tackles at a higher rate he has a higher explosive rush rate than rash're shot wide. All that really surprised me. I think mostly what the problem is, is the offensive line and the team environment as a whole. I think all of those things are really weighing him down. So again, if you think Tampa Bay is going to bounce back, then yeah, definitely these guys, Fournette, the receivers are for sure by lows.

They are awful in the red zone, awful on third down. Tampa Bay is 30th in red zone percentage. The only two teams have converted fewer of their red zone trips into touchdowns, the Broncos and the Colts. So I can tell you that, but I can't tell you that it's going to get a lot better. That's the thing. Is it going to get better? I don't know. It's the

key, I guess, to their offense. All right. I think we all agree on what he is. The question is, can he still give you some good fantasy games enough to matter? I'd say yes. Obviously, less conviction than

I had a month ago. This is from Aldwin Parchment. What are the likelihood that the no questions asked players return to their status? No questions asked. Some of these guys, it doesn't matter what we call them, but I wouldn't say Connor was a no questions asked or Montgomery was, but he says James Connor, Jonathan Taylor, DeAndre Swift, Leonard Fournette,

Aaron Jones, David Montgomery. Dan, what do you think the odds are that this group of six running backs or how many of them can get back to their status? I'm going to guess their draft status. Okay, let's take this one by one here, right? So let me start with Connor. Connor, I'm going to give a chance of him getting back to his draft status at 35%. Jonathan Taylor, I'm going to give a chance of his getting back to his draft status at 15%.

Thornette actually has a little bit more of a chance. I guess if they, if they, if they phase out white from the offense and they start to score more, so I'll go 45%. Is that Aaron Jones? Aaron Jones. Aaron Jones.

I'm going to go like 80%. Um, because I really felt like they were starting to funnel the offense through him in the last two weeks before this one, where he got injured. And now we're learning that he's healthy enough that he might even play this week. He's supposed to play this week. So Aaron Jones, I'll give 80%.

David Montgomery, he was kind of a middle round, fourth, fifth round pick. And Adam, you made a decent, I think you made a pretty strong case for him, especially if that Bears offense continues to be as strong as we think. So I'm going to go 70% on him just because he didn't have the same kind of uh you know draft status as the rest of these guys yeah you just ignored swift yeah but just ignored deandre swift just like he was dan campbell yeah i did ignore him like i was dan campbell um swift i mean he was expected he was in that giovante williams range saquon barkley range uh of drafts before this is past so i'll go with him 15 i just don't see any way they phased jamal williams out of this offense and and more importantly i don't see any way they take williams out of the red zone that's

what's really killing swift oh yeah the goal line specifically yeah um okay monk up by the way you said i made a case for montgomery i railed about how bad he is and how I'm so sick and tired of David Montgomery, but apparently the Bears aren't. And that is a decent case for him. No, but your case, exactly. That was what I was talking about. Your case was mostly the touches and the snap share versus Herbert. So frustrating.

And if you're on a great offense and you're getting that kind of volume, I kind of like Montgomery. You'd think. Any disagreement there with what he said, Jacob? No, I think he did a good job there. And yeah, it kind of is a case for Montgomery for fantasy. It's crazy. It seemed like Herbert was really starting to eat into the split there.

It was a 52-48 split between the two in favor of Montgomery in terms of running back rushes the two previous weeks. This week it was up to 67% for Montgomery. And so Herbert had been dominating and had been starting to take carries in a way that we hadn't really ever seen before and i thought maybe that it was just going to be a more even split going forward but like things definitely swung back in montgomery's favor this week 69 snap rate 80 of the red zone snaps went to montgomery um they love him i don't know he's he's the guy there i think aaron jones is exciting like if you can buy low on them at this point, I would,

he's got a really, he's got a lot of potential shootouts remaining, especially like the fantasy playoffs. The Rams is not a great matchup, but after that, it gets the dolphins and the Vikings. And those are, you know,

games where he could explode. Um, James Connor, I mean, 72% snap rate, 66% round involvement. I thought he looked pretty good this week. Um,

he was somebody who we saw really get like 80, 90% of the snaps early in the season. And I thought with how well, you know, Benjamin played that it might be more of an even split, but like right away, Connor came back and assumed pretty much, you know,

almost every down roll. And it's possible that that could expand what we saw earlier in the season as he continues to show that he's healthy. I'm always going to be low on Connor. I think that they have just a terrible run game. Yeah. I think he's like a poor man's version of Leonard Fournette, basically. And they are rated 32nd by PFF in run blocking.

So PFF thinks they're the worst run blocking team in football. The only thing I wanted to see, and I don't know if you know this, I actually have it right now. Third down split between the two of them, Benjamin and Connor. team in football. The only thing I wanted to see, and I don't know if you know this, I actually have it right now, third down split between the two of them, Benjamin and Connor. Connor, wow, 12 snaps to two. He's the third down. I mean, that

is a great roll, but the team bothers me. They are a train wreck and awful at running the football. 70% of the snaps and the third down roll and the red zone work is huge for Connor. So I can't completely shut that down.

And even with all that, what are we like borderline top 20? Like Jeff Wilson-ish type of guy? And I'd have to take him ahead of Wilson. Yeah.

I think there's a lot more upside with Wilson, honestly. Without a Fournette injury? I mean, sorry, without a Mostert injury? Yeah. I think it's possible that he could, I don't know if they honestly without a four net injury I mean sorry without a mostard injury yeah I think it's possible that he could I don't

know if they necessarily wanted most of to play the role that he's playing I think chase Edmonds is just like really really bad and then they got a guy who

is familiar with the system and I think it's possible that he could push into the role that most was playing and most of kind of takes the role that Edmonds

was playing and like if that happened I think Wilson would definitely be more valuable than Connor. Our last question is from Ballpark Fantasy, our last topic. TJ Hawkinson is the topic.

Hawkinson had nine targets. He caught all of them. 70 yards at Washington. Washington, by the way, allowed the fewest fantasy points to tight ends going into the game. They even shut down TJ Hawkinson earlier in the year. He had three catches for 26 yards with the Lions, much better in his second game against the Commanders.

But he is the first tight end to have more than 40 yards against Washington this year. That includes Evan Ingram, Hawkinson himself, Dallas Goddard, who left with an injury, Robert Tunyon. Anyway, great start for him. Interesting involvement. They ran at least two wide receivers or tight end screens to him,

but he also was just abusing people getting wide open over the middle of the field. It was a great debut for TJ Hawkinson. Um, he does have Buffalo and Dallas and new England next, and then the jets. Uh, but like I said, Washington was number one against tight ends. So, uh, Jacob, what do you think of TJ Hawkinsonon going forward i think he's really interesting i think he definitely gets a boost from what we saw in detroit this is i mean playing alongside justin jefferson is a real like tangible boost that he gets like has he ever played with someone who can stretch the field like this and open up the short intermediate area for him no yeah um great point he and he had a 91% snap rate 86% route involvement rate like those are

really elite for the tight end position he came in and got that right away um 23% target share 17% for Adam Thielen I would expect them to both kind of have around 20% um so yeah I I wouldn't necessarily overreact I don't know if he's going to join the elite tier yet his average if the target was still only 5.6 yards so it's going to join the elite tier yet. His average depth of target was still only 5.6 yards, so it's going to be tougher for him to be super efficient playing that type of a role. But I think there should be lots of space for him over the middle in this offense. And so I think it's definitely an upgrade from what we saw in Detroit.

Dalton Schultz or TJ Hawkinson rest of season? Hawkinson. I'll take Schultz. Schultz for you guys both? Schultz for me, but I do like Hawkinson a lot too. I really the fact that the the main set you brought in there jacob which was the route participation 86 in his first game what does that tell me it tells me that this offense was looking for him they view him as the missing cog they're going to get

involved right away somebody who can help move the chains and have them be an offense that can you know attack all three levels not just the intermediate and the deep half where you see jefferson thrive but with that said jacob part of the reason why I kind of argue Schultz or just not get too high myself on Hawkinson is the same reason why, you know, two August ago, not this past one, but two August ago, when everyone was moving Hawkinson into that third, fourth, fifth round ringer, but more like fourth, fifth round pre-draft range, people loved him. I argued against him because I felt like the talent wasn't there. I don't really see much burst post catch. I don't really see anything really at the catch point, body control, any kind of acceleration,

any really traits that make me think that he can be like a superstar in fantasy or somebody can be a difference maker. Can he be a huge PPR guy like a Dalton Schultz type? Sure. But then I kind of trust Schultz a little more in that offense, especially without really anything, any, any Jefferson type to hog more of the volume. I guess that's where I'm at. I don't love the talent as much.

If the Cowboys get Odell Beckham, maybe that changes things. It's a lot to ask about Odell Beckham, too. That's it for the topics. Last topic here, the fifth big topic. I made an Aerosmith playlist for Dan Schneier

because he doesn't think they're good. I think he's wrong. I know he loves classic rock, so people think that Aerosmith is just, you know, like a, I don't know, 90s rock band with a bunch of those ballads that you heard in middle school, but they're not. So he listened to it twice, which I really appreciate,

and I have no idea how he felt about it, so please don't break my heart. What did you think of the playlist? listened to it twice, which I really appreciate. And I have no idea how he felt about it. So please don't break my heart. What did you think of the, of the playlist? So I'll start by saying, I like that you refer to it as a playlist. Jamie famously now infamously now referred to it as a mixtape, just showing his age. He didn't call it a mixtape. He called it a mixtape because he couldn't even pronounce it right. Either way. No one's talking mixtapes these days. Spotify playlist. I'll say that some things I like, some things I didn't. I'll start with the things I didn't like because that's how I do things on this show, especially when I'm talking to Adam.

What I didn't like is Adam put like four of the most famous songs ever on there. Like I thought I was getting a deep cut, a type of playlist. There was only like 12 songs, I think, on the playlist. It was either 12 or 14 to begin with. And either four or five were like Dream On and like all the ones that I've already heard and that we've all heard so i'll start by saying that as far as i'm going to rule those out the songs i hadn't heard so that's the the next 10 of them i'll give it to adam he's right they are up my alley there's good guitar they're good classic rock there's bluesy elements to them which is what i really like i love blues guitar so i'll say this overall it was a definite win from adam i'm still

surprised he put like the dream ons of the world onto there like I just don't understand that like I thought the whole idea was I've never heard of Aerosmith like did he really my question in my head as I was listening through for a second time was did Adam really think I've never heard dream on before and it wasn't just dream on it was like every one of the most popular songs so I'm still a little surprised by that I was taken aback by it but as far as the non-Dreamon type songs, Adam nailed it. All right. That is great. I was just trying to give you a more enjoyable playlist. I was putting some of their smash hits on there. Honestly, the way you were talking about Aerosmith saying that My Morning Jacket is a better band, it made me think maybe he's never

heard Dreamon before. Maybe he's never heard the riff on Walk This Way. I don't know. Well, look, Walk This Way is a great song. I'd heard it a million times, but it's still an amazing song and still one of their best ones, and that's right up my alley, so you nailed that part of it. But some of the more obscure ones that I hadn't heard, and I don't even know if they're considered obscure. And another thing I'll say that I like about your playlist, Adam,

you did give a lot of variety. It wasn't just one album. It wasn't like, oh, back then they had this one album that was like good rock it was like okay there's like different songs from different albums there's good variety too so yeah you know i think we i got every decade in there too yeah a couple of the newer ones which are which are not bad jacob are you a r smith fan or do you listen to rock i listen to a ton of rock growing up i've kind of fallen out of it a little bit um but i'm curious about this playlist. Oh, I'll send it your way. It's just called Arrows. The only one who doesn't get it is Jamie,

just based on how he talked about it. No, Jamie would hate it. Jamie, I cannot figure out Jamie's music. He strikes me as someone who doesn't listen to music. Yeah, I don't really know what music means to Jamie. Like, it's very, music's huge for me. I don't think Jamie really likes music that much. I don't think it means anything to him.

All right, well, that's our Beyond the Box score. Thanks for watching and listening, everybody. Always fun. We'll talk to you with the waiver wire tomorrow on Fantasy Football.