Fantasy Football Today - DO NOT DRAFT LIST and Training Camp Risers! (07/29 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: July 29, 2024

Want to be in our next mock draft and have a shot at being on air? Check out our St. Jude Draft-a-Thon Store here: https://tiltify.com/@fftfundraising/fantasy-football-today-draftathon-2024 If you sup...port the show, please nominate Fantasy Football Today for The People's Choice Podcast Awards in the "Sports" Category: https://www.podcastawards.com/app/signup/ Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts We've had an eventful weekend of training camp with big news that has affected our rankings, but before we get to that, our guys give you one player on their DO NOT DRAFT lists (3:30)! This is about current average draft position, but we'll tell you why Aaron Jones, Zay Flowers and Jordan Love could be going too early in drafts. What makes Love different than Brock Purdy and Tua Tagovailoa? ... Who have the guys moved up or down in the rankings (15:00)? We talk a lot about the Bengals backfield. Dave has moved Jalen Hurts to QB1. Jamey is pumped for Malik Nabers (24:55), and there are plenty more to talk about including the rest of the news and notes (31:00) ... Finishing up the DO NOT DRAFT lists for Heath (43:30), Jamey (51:15) and Dave (55:40). We debate Mike Evans, Brock Bowers, DeVonta Smith and more ... Email us at fantasyfootball@cbsi.com Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dynasty/id1696679179 SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aHlmMJw1m8FareKybdNfG?si=8487e2f9611b4438&nd=1 Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Kick off an exciting football season with BetMGM, an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. Yard after yard, down after down, the sportsbook born in Vegas gives you the chance to take action to the end zone and celebrate every highlight reel play. And as an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, BetMGM is the best place to fuel your football fandom on every game day. With a variety of exciting features, BetMGM offers you plenty of seamless ways to jump straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action. Ready for another season of gridiron glory? What are you waiting for?
Starting point is 00:00:38 Get off the bench, into the huddle, and head for the end zone all season long. Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem? For free assistance, call the Connex Ontario helpline at 1-866-531-2600.
Starting point is 00:00:59 BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no.
Starting point is 00:01:18 But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.
Starting point is 00:01:33 This is Fantasy Football Today from CBS Sports. What a play! Can you believe this? I had no idea. It's time to dominate your fantasy league. Off to the races, and he stays on his feet. He's just going to go the distance. Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath.
Starting point is 00:01:54 And happy Monday, everybody. We've got preseason football coming up. We've got position previews, quarterback preview coming up this week. We've got, really, fantasy football season in full swing. It's almost August. It is Monday, July 29th, and i'm adam azar with dave richard and heath cummings jamie eisenberg will be joining us shortly what's up guys happy monday heath how you feeling you feeling better yo i'm i'm i'm best shape my life uh no i'm i'm i'm getting better like Newsflash, COVID does still exist, and it can still completely put you on your butt for three days. Maybe I just needed a long nap.
Starting point is 00:02:33 Well, at least it was July when you got it right, and not October or something. Dave, how are you? I'm doing all right. This is the time of year where everybody's excited about preseason football. And in about 14 to 20 days, we all will say we can't wait for it to end. Get it out of here. It sucks. So a few days away from the preseason starting, I think I'm going to watch the entirety of the Hall of Fame game. So I am a football guy.
Starting point is 00:03:07 I like football a lot, and I have enjoyed the training camp reports. I'm enjoying watching the clips. I'm not sure I can get on board with your sentiment, Dave, that we are excited about preseason football. Everybody's excited to see their teams back on the field game.
Starting point is 00:03:26 You're going to watch the whole dude. You have my permission. You will not lose any credibility. Do not watch the entire hall of fame. There are so many great things. You can do it. Hold on. I'm definitely going to do it for every preseason game after the hall of
Starting point is 00:03:40 fame fair. I mean, I don't think you should, but that is fair. I will, you know, but that's remember I'm also the guy that doesn't watch a bunch of shows on Netflix or spends time with their family or goes out anywhere. So allow me to have my my my private time with the National Football League and games that completely do not matter.
Starting point is 00:03:59 All right. Jamie's here as well. So last year, this is our Do Not Draft List episode, but it's also a ranking show because we've gotten enough training camp reports that maybe we can make some adjustments in our rankings.
Starting point is 00:04:12 I think the Bengals running back situation is obviously one we have to talk about with probably Chase Brown and Zach Moss at least getting closer to each other in the rankings.
Starting point is 00:04:19 I'll ask you guys about that. But last year, we did this show and Dave was not on it, but the Do Not Draft List, I asked Jamie and Heath to kick off the show with 30 seconds on a player that they're just basically not drafting this year at their current
Starting point is 00:04:32 cost. And Jamie started with Mahomes and Heath started with Burrow and you guys crushed it. You also talked about DK Metcalf. That was a mutual one for you guys. Metcalf was like we were very consistent on this show last year. He was going in the third round and we just didn't see it.
Starting point is 00:04:50 That was a great call. So you guys have to live up to last year's success. So I'm going to ask you for 30 seconds on one player. I have nine total, three from each of them. 30 to 60 seconds. Be a little more generous this year. Jamie, you could start. 30 to 60 seconds on one player on your Do Not Draft list.
Starting point is 00:05:06 Aaron Jones. I will not be having many shares of Aaron Jones. I do not like the outlook for him. I think it's going to be a struggle for him at his age, turning 30 this year. And we've seen this Minnesota backfield under Kevin O'Connell not necessarily be successful. I don't think it's going to change with Aaron Jones being there.
Starting point is 00:05:23 And so Ty Chandler is somebody I'm much more interested in based on his costs. So I will be avoiding Aaron Jones almost entirely this season. And he is going as RB 19 on CBS and looking at draft sharks ADP, which combines different sources. He's RB 18. That's Aaron Jones. You have to use a mid sixth round pick. It looks like on, on Aaron Jones, 66th, 68th overall. Jamie, he's going ahead of James Conner, who's also on your Do Not Draft list. David Montgomery, Najee Harris. Are you taking Montgomery and Harris over Aaron Jones?
Starting point is 00:05:55 Yes. Dave and Heath, are you taking Montgomery and Najee Harris over Aaron Jones? I'm taking Conner and Montgomery over Aaron Jones, not Najee. I'm taking Najee and Connor. I almost had Montgomery on my do not draft list, so I think I'm a little lower on him. But if Jamie didn't have Aaron Jones on his do not draft list,
Starting point is 00:06:18 I probably would as well. I am not excited about drafting Aaron Jones. I would take Connor over Aaron Jones as well, but I would prefer not to take either one. All right, Dave, give me someone 30 to 60 seconds on your do not draft list. This is a stab in my heart because I love the talent, but Zay Flowers last year, his best five game stretch came when Mark Andrews didn't play in the eight games when a Ravens running back last year had 13 or more PPR fantasy points. Flowers exceeded 14 PPR points just two times. Now Derek Henry's there.
Starting point is 00:06:47 Don't see him being a factor in the red zone. Really think that there's going to be sort of a target crunch there as long as Mark Andrews is healthy. I love the talent. I just don't like the situation. I think people are overgrafting
Starting point is 00:06:58 Zay Flowers. Yeah, because he's borderline top 24 at the position. You have him 69th overall, not at wide receiver, and he's going about 57th on CBS ADP. On draft sharks, he's going about 50th overall, so you'd like to see him closer to 70. Amari Cooper over Zay Flowers?
Starting point is 00:07:21 Yes. How about George Pickens? Of course. Yes. Yes. How about George Pickens? Of course. Yeah. Okay. He's just behind him on draft sharks. Why don't you ask me Tyreek Hill or Zay Flowers? These guys are going after him.
Starting point is 00:07:36 Oh, that's why. Okay. Immediately after him. T. Higgins, Tank Dell are the next two. I'm taking them. All right. He 30 to 60 seconds on one player on your do not draft list. Jordan love at CBS ADP is currently QB nine at the beginning of round seven.
Starting point is 00:07:56 You can draft Kyler Murray a full round later. And I would rather draft Kyler Murray than Jordan love. And maybe more importantly like you can find Jaden Daniels to Brock Purdy Jared Goff Trevor Lawrence five six rounds later than Jordan Love and I just don't think Jordan Love's going to become a top five fantasy quarterback if the good quarterbacks are as good as we expect him to be. I think he's a good low-end starter, but good low-end starters are available in the double-digit rounds of fantasy football drafts. Love is not going to be a high-volume passer. We've seen that in Green Bay. They're going to run the ball a fair share. He ran for four touchdowns last year. He's not going to
Starting point is 00:08:42 be a high rusher on a year-to-year basis. He might get into that Patrick Mahomes range. And that type of guy just has a hard time being an elite fantasy quarterback. Don't draft the first guy in that low-end QB1 tier. Yeah, Love. I mean, people are probably super excited about him because his last nine games, he was the number two quarterback in fantasy, number five per game game but he's not the only quarterback that's done that i was doing some jared golf research last night and i forgot how strong golf finished at the end of 2022 he was he had he didn't
Starting point is 00:09:17 throw an interception he had i think he set the record golf for like most past attempts in a row without an interception to end 2022. Or he came close. And you said the last nine games? For Love, yeah. For Love. Wasn't Tua pretty close to the QB2 the first nine games? Probably. Quite possibly.
Starting point is 00:09:35 I've got Tua with 23.7 in his first eight. And I've got Jordan Love with 25 in his final nine. That's six points for passing. I kind of disagree on Love. I don't like him going, what was the ADP you said, Heath, on CBS? 75th overall. Too soon. I agree with you on that 100%.
Starting point is 00:09:53 You'd much rather wait and fall into a different quarterback. But I think he's got potential to maybe be QB5. I think he's good. And I loved how he put up numbers last year. Watson in or out. Wicks in or out. Like we've talked about it all off season. And I think he can run for four touchdowns again. I think he's, I think he's a righteous dude. All right. So what, you know, we can have a conversation about him. Cause I thought if I were going to do this list, he was probably on my list too. I just mostly because I love Kyler. I mean, it's basically everything he's said.
Starting point is 00:10:27 But what is it that you think makes the fantasy managers, Jamie, view Jordan Love differently than Brock Purdy, Tuatunga Bailoa, Caleb Williams, the other low-end QB ones? Why have they elevated Jordan Love? I think the funny one to me is CJ Stroud, because I don't see much difference, to be honest with you, you know, and even Joe Burrow, because you're talking about guys with loaded receiving cores that played at a very high level last year to a certain extent in terms of Love. Stroud obviously did as well. And we know what
Starting point is 00:10:59 Burrow is capable of. But the rushing is where I think, you know, you sort of look at these guys and say they're not going to run for a lot of yards. You know, I don't think he's going to run for four touchdowns. I think that's just unrealistic to expect that. But the, the upside is there for him to be a 25, 26 point per game type of guy. The difference is I think if those running guys, Kyler included, you know, hit, they're going to be 27, 28, 29 points per game, you know, unless there's just an unbelievably magical season for him, Love or Stroud or burrow throwing the ball and so uh i think love is appropriately ranked i don't think you want to draft him that high but again you know i uh he's number what quarterback coming off the board nine nine see that's not a huge issue for me you know i mean i haven't ranked 10th you know so
Starting point is 00:11:40 i don't have a problem if that's where you're starting to look for your quarterback so that's why i always throw out quarterback ADP because where we draft versus where everybody that is just playing fantasy football for fun drafts, it's just a totally different animal. So I always look at the ranking of where the quarterbacks come off the board, and I have no problem with that. I'd rather have Kyler 100%, but to say he's QB 8, 9, 10, 11, that's the range I think for him. And Heath is right. You want to take Jared Goff or Tua Purdy, do so. You want to wait a little bit, that's fine. I think that looking at the QB ranking makes sense,
Starting point is 00:12:14 but I think we should also pay attention if there's a 30-spot gap. Yeah, they're all going higher, but there's a 30-spot gap between two guys we think are pretty similar, then that does matter. Yeah, that does matter. And obviously, I'm sure you guys would agree with this the name of the game when drafting a qb in a one qb league is look for value that seems to be just how it is this year that seems to be how it is every year but this year especially it's a deep position you've got to feel like you're getting a really good value at quarterback when you draft them that's how you know it's a
Starting point is 00:12:43 good pick yeah no i, I don't really know why he's 30 spots ahead of Purdy and Tua. He doesn't have better weapons than them. He's going to run for more yards than Tua for sure. I think he was pretty close to Purdy last year, but he'll probably run for more yards, but he's not going to win because of his legs. So it is just weird.
Starting point is 00:13:02 I don't know if it's weird. I mean, I think it's because he finished so strong, right? And in the playoffs, too, he kind of lit it up, torched the Cowboys, and then I don't remember how many points he scored against the Niners. He had that bad interception to end the game. But I get it. I mean, there's exciting stuff here,
Starting point is 00:13:16 but it is weird that he's going almost three rounds ahead of Tuatunga-Vailoa. Okay, that's Jordan Love. We got some things to promote. Draft-a-thon! We're working on the FFT Open. We should have an announcement about that pretty soon, but that's your chance to be in leagues with us.
Starting point is 00:13:33 You know, I'll explain it more, if you don't remember, when we finalize it, but this is a really cool thing. It's sort of like our version of the Scott Fish Bowl, and last year we raised $22,000 just for this in like a few hours, basically, for St. Jude. And this year we hope to raise even more. So if you go to tinyurl.com slash draftathon2024, you'll see some items that are up for bid, basically, or really for purchase.
Starting point is 00:13:59 And everything goes to St. Jude. So that's tinyurl.com. We have a draft Thursday again at 11 a.m. Yes. And tomorrow night we have a live stream. And that's at 8 p.m. Eastern. So join us. It's only on YouTube. YouTube.com slash fantasyfootballtoday.
Starting point is 00:14:14 We already had 11 people purchase spots to be in this draft. We're going to be doing a ton of those. And this one is – I'm running this draft. So Jamie will have some. Dave will have some. Heath will have some. Schneier will have some. And you can be in those. And it's not expensive and it all goes to St. Jude.
Starting point is 00:14:30 But tomorrow night, join us for our live stream, 8 p.m. Eastern. We're doing a half PPR draft. And it's gonna be one quarterback, two running backs, two receivers, tight end, flex, and I think DST as well. No kickers in this one. But we do a lot of three-receiver talk on this show, but let's do a two-receiver, one-flex league,
Starting point is 00:14:49 a little bit more old school, but still a very popular format. It's the most popular format. And that changes things for me a little bit at tight end, but we'll talk about that tomorrow night. And we only have a couple of days left for you to please nominate us at podcastawards.com. Podcastawards.com. Nominate Fantasy Football today in the sports and the people's choice categories.
Starting point is 00:15:09 It takes 30 seconds. Just go to podcastawards.com. Get us to the next round, and we're going to win it. When we come back, Dave, Jamie, and Heath will tell you who they're moving up and down in their rankings based on some early training camp reports. And then we'll talk about our Do Not Draft list. We'll be right back. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you our Do Not Draft list. We'll be right back.
Starting point is 00:15:28 It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.
Starting point is 00:15:48 Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Mama, look at me. Vroom, vroom. I'm going really fast.
Starting point is 00:15:58 I just got my license. Can I borrow the car, please, Mom? Kids go from 0 to 18 in no time. You'll be relieved they have 24-7 roadside assistance with Intact Insurance. Mom, can we go to Nana's house tomorrow? I want to go to Jack's place today. I'll just take the car. Don't wait up, okay?
Starting point is 00:16:15 Kids go from 0 to 18 in no time, don't they? At Intact Insurance, we insure your car so you can enjoy the ride. Visit Intact.ca or talk to your broker. Conditions apply. Really a lot of news to catch up on. I have a whole bunch and I probably missed some, so these guys will keep me honest. But let's just talk about training camp risers or fallers. Dave, you want to start? Who are some players that you moved in your rankings? The first one that I moved was Jalen Hurts, and I made him my QB one. I just, I like that he seems to be meshing with
Starting point is 00:16:45 Kellen Moore and that he seems to be doing very well in practice. It's a new offense that should be better for him. And he's still going to run the football. Yeah. I know he's going to lose touchdowns to Saquon Barkley. Maybe he makes up for that with a couple more passing touchdowns and still has a chance to be the QB one. So I put them ahead of my homes, very close between those two. The other guy that I'm, I put them up probably sooner than I wanted to move them up, but it's Jamison Williams. Just the fact that there continues to be a strong drum beat out of Detroit that he's, he's playing much more confidently doing a lot more than just being a deep threat guy. And that's, that's the
Starting point is 00:17:20 type of receiver that I like taking chances on before the midpoint of my draft. And so if I can get him in that round eight range, happy to take a chance on him for now. And hopefully if the beat keeps going, then he's going to move up and then I might not be as interested. But for now, I'm definitely interested getting him in that 80 to 90 range overall. Did you move Jamison Williams ahead of – well, i don't know if you had i've got one yeah because i moved him down i did a twitter poll what this morning um jordan addison okay
Starting point is 00:17:52 he's on your do not draft list heath so jameson no i still have addison higher okay okay thank you i i was i was leaning there i was gonna say him and jsn would you rather have i've got jameson over JSN. To me, they're the same type of wide receiver. You're getting at what feels like it's not a pick that's going to make or break your team. And the upside is huge. And the downside, if they stink, all right. So you'll waste a round eight or round nine pick.
Starting point is 00:18:18 All right, Heath. How about you? I moved Zach Moss and Chase Brown closer together. very very close together like back to back and i gave the uh the falcons pass catchers and kirk cousins a little bit of boost it's good to see that kirk cousins does not look to have any limitations so like there's talked about like two or three concerns that atl situation, and one of those I'm not as concerned about. So is Drake London in your top 200 now? He has always been in my top 200, and he is still. Where did you move him up to?
Starting point is 00:18:55 I think he's late round three. He moved up a round. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, so good reports on Kirk Cousins. All right, so for Dave, it was moving Jalen Hurts to QB1 and Jamison Williams up. For Heath, it was moving Jalen Hurts to QB1 and Jamison Williams up. For Heath, it was moving Zach Moss and Chase Brown back to back. How many spots separated them before? Do you remember? They were basically, I think, three. I think I had
Starting point is 00:19:16 seven, eight turn for Moss and I had nine, 10 turn for Brown. And now they're both eight, nine turn. Is Kyle Pitts, did he move ahead of anyone? Not at tight end, but he and Dalton Kincaid just, I think, he's a round higher than he was. Okay. Jamie, who'd you move? Oh, well, are you going to talk about the Bengals too? Because we
Starting point is 00:19:37 probably should spend a decent amount of time on that. Did you move them, Moss and Brown? I did, yes. They're two spots apart. Does anybody have Brown ahead of Moss yet? Not yet not yet no we're all kind of afraid to make that move but well it go ahead the the the passing downs work it still feels like it's going to go to moss which is what i think we thought was going to be the other way around um you know from what they're saying pass protection is still very much in favor of zach moss right now. That's the concern, at least from all the, uh,
Starting point is 00:20:06 the beat writers that are covering the team. So sounds like Brown will be the rushing downs guy and Moss might be the passing downs guy, which is just crazy. Who's better in past protection, right? Moss. Is he?
Starting point is 00:20:19 Yes, but Brown, well, that he has the reputation anyway, but Brown, I mean, I, so I watched every touch he had last season, last night.
Starting point is 00:20:28 44 carries, like caught almost every target. He threw a lot of screen passes to him. And one of them he took to the house, like 60-ish yards. I think that's his best skill is getting out in space. You've made this point a lot about Joe Mixon, Adam, that he came off the field on third downs, but still caught a bunch of passes because they threw their running back on earlier down.
Starting point is 00:20:50 So I think Brown could come off the field for those pass protection plays, but still catch some passes. Oh, yeah, for sure. And we don't really... Oh, he's not going to... Yeah, of course he's still going to be involved in passing. We don't want to split here. This team has been 31st in running back carries two straight seasons. So we're going to
Starting point is 00:21:06 get a split, but we don't want them splitting the carries all that much. But one thing I noticed, guys, I don't know, is this a Mixon thing? Is this a Zach Taylor thing? This team runs the ball up the middle a lot. I looked at where they ranked in running back carries last five years with Zach Taylor and compared it to where they rank in running back carries up the middle. And in four of the five seasons, like much higher in running back carries up the middle than an overall running back carries. And I remember that about mixing.
Starting point is 00:21:33 I was like, God, all they do is run him up the middle. I do not like I just watching chase Brown. He does not look like a guy who is suited to bang the ball up the middle. He's a little small. He is. Yeah. And, and a lot of his runs to bang the ball up the middle he's a little small he is yeah and and a lot of his runs were to the outside and like just by looking at them moss seems more suited
Starting point is 00:21:52 for the running downs and brown for the for catching the ball and getting out in space but not pass protection okay so maybe the early days of training camp are trying to see if the other guy can do what the first guy does, meaning they're, they want to see what Chase Brown can do in the running role. And what can Zach Moss do in the passing downs role? And you'd think that they'd have a pretty good beat on that to begin with, but that's what the early days of training camp are for, for coaches to tinker with the team and see who can do what so that they know what the players can and can't handle by the time week one comes around.
Starting point is 00:22:25 That's been one of the reasons why I don't want to rush Chase Brown way ahead of Zach Moss. And I still have Zach Moss ahead of Chase Brown, just like the fellas do. But a couple more weeks from now, if Chase Brown is still dominating snaps with the ones and having that rundowns role, of course there's no choice,
Starting point is 00:22:40 but to give Chase Brown the nod over Zach Moss. Devin Singletary over Zach Moss? No way. No chance. I'm queasy about the Giants other than Neighbors. Neighbors is another guy that moved up for me. You can play the Adam, you were right songbite. Not yet.
Starting point is 00:23:01 You can play it. No, but the reason why— You called it on draft night, sir. That what? That we would all move up Neighbors. No, but the reason why— You called it on draft night, sir. That what? That we would all move up neighbors. Oh, yeah, that is going to happen. But the thing is, ADP has been so high on neighbors. I don't think he's moving up in ADP because he's been a top 24.
Starting point is 00:23:15 Oh, he's going to be a round two pick by the time we get to him. No way. No way. People are going to be able to justify it because there isn't— He's been a round two best ball pick for a long time. Yeah. able to justify it because there isn't he's been around to best ball pick for a long time yeah people are going to justify it because there there is no consensus once you get past nakua slash marvin like who's that next receiver there's no consensus there whatsoever if i could just go back to the bangles i think the reason why i'm so fascinated and fixated on this like
Starting point is 00:23:40 how good could devin singletary be on the giants i i just don't see it you know but the bangles like what an opportunity here and um yeah at what point do you start what what did you say heath eight nine turn for moss and brown yeah and where do you guys would you guys go earlier because i was like round seven zach moss was a staple of my drafts. Maybe even round eight. I felt like he was falling. Now I'm noticing it. Brown for me for a long time. For Brown?
Starting point is 00:24:10 In what round? Round eight. I feel like you were getting him even later than that. Well, if I get him later, I would take him later, but that's where I would start to look for him. Correct. And I'm wondering if we're at a point now where once one Bengals running back goes off the board,
Starting point is 00:24:24 the other one will be off like eight picks later. So if you're picking early in round eight and late in round nine, you're probably not going to get both. There's three. There's three backfields like that that we're going to see at least again. It's the Titans. It's the Bengals. It's the Steelers. You know, you're going to get those running backs almost back to back in the same round um and the the fascinating
Starting point is 00:24:47 ones for me are when warren goes ahead of naji when spears goes ahead of pollard and what we might now start to see is brown going ahead of moss because that's just not something we've seen yet i think maybe the commanders a little bit later let's go into it like that too i'm just wondering if does that ever work like does that ever pay off when you have... Well, I think if you want a piece of those backfields, probably the Cowboys too, we might start to see them go back-to-back too. I think what you're looking for,
Starting point is 00:25:14 if you not necessarily have a strong feeling on that backfield, because like Adam, I know why you like the Bengals backfields, because traditionally it's been one guy and there's going to be a lot of points in this offense, and so there's a lot to like about the situation. And so if you want a piece of it, and you say, okay, Moss just went. If Brown's going to go, I probably should take him now in the spot that you're picking. Like that's the approach.
Starting point is 00:25:33 I think we've seen it with the Titans. You know, it's almost been Pollard Spears back-to-back throughout almost every draft we've done. And you see it again in best ball, same thing. The Steelers won typically depending on the type of format you're in. Warren goes first, which is, you know, I think atypical for us outside of Heath. I think he's been the one that's consistent about taking Warren over Najee. I put all those guys basically back-to-back just because when I see one go, I want the next one. I wonder if the Vikings should be that.
Starting point is 00:25:59 The Vikings are one that could be interesting. And I would not be surprised if Benson does something in the preseason that we see Benson and Conner start to creep closer together too. I got one more. What about Cleveland trying to lock up Chubb and Jerome Ford? Yeah, I think Chubb. Once we get closer and we find out that Chubb is officially going to be on the pop list to start the season, because that's kind of what you've heard for a long time,
Starting point is 00:26:19 is he may just start to plummet. All right, let's go to Malik Neighbors here. Jamie, that was one of the guys that you moved up. Where did you move Malik Neighbors to? Probably a little bit too aggressive, but into the top 20. Okay. Top 20 overall? At wide receiver, right?
Starting point is 00:26:35 Top 20 wide receiver. Okay. But it's hard not to see what he's doing. And talking to some people that have been at Giants camp, you see it he's doing. And, you know, talking to some people that have been at giants camp, um, you know, you see it with the highlights, uh, you're hearing Odell Beckham, you know, and just, you know, they haven't seen anything like this since Beckham. And so, uh, my, my reply to somebody who said this to me was Beckham had Eli Manning.
Starting point is 00:26:57 It feels like, uh, neighbors has Cooper Manning. Um, but you know, you hope Daniel Jones can just be competent enough and you you see it in in in the plays you know it's like Daniel Jones will make three horrible throws and then he'll just put the ball out there where neighbors can go make a play any mixed play and I think we're gonna get a lot of that you know so um I'm excited you know and and I feel like you know being behind about on this a little bit because we are probably as as a group behind on that and it's it's okay you know like we we dipped our toe in the water a little bit and you know continue to to watch this um and we might get burned by it you know i might get burned i don't
Starting point is 00:27:34 speak for most i might get burned by it but um looking at uh harrison and how aggressive we've been consistently ranking harrison and yes his quarterback situation is better a talent perspective, there are a lot of people that thought Nabors was the better talent and better prospect. And in his situation, while crappy, may end up just getting force-fed the ball enough and making enough splash plays that it overcomes the crappy situation, whether that's Daniel Jones or Drew Locke. So it feels like I just don't want to miss out on the meteor
Starting point is 00:28:04 that might be rising here faster than we expect. Can you think of a receiver who was like this in the past? In what regard? In the regard that hot receiver talent, we think he's outstanding. He's got a crappy quarterback, but he still ends up being awesome for fantasy.
Starting point is 00:28:21 I mean, Adam brought up a good one. And I don't know if it'll end up being the same way, but Jalen Waddell in his rookie season when it was the mixture of Tua and Fitzpatrick. But, you know. No, go ahead. I mean, look, Daniel Jones,
Starting point is 00:28:33 I brought up like five instances of rookie wide receivers having great seasons with what we thought were bad quarterback situations, and Heath's going to say all those quarterbacks are better than Daniel Jones. He's probably right, but I would say that those wide receivers made those quarterbacks look better than what we thought. I don't think we ever thought that A.J. Brown could be as good as he was with Ryan Tannehill.
Starting point is 00:28:54 Tannehill kind of played out of his mind. But Tannehill was better than Daniel Jones. I'm not saying that. I think you look at what the Panthers had in Kelvin Benjamin's rookie season. I don't even think it was Cam Newton. I think it was Newton and someone. Eli Manning, the year before Odell Beckham, threw for 3,800 yards, 18 touchdowns, and 27 interceptions.
Starting point is 00:29:14 The next year, he threw for 4,400 yards, 30 touchdowns, and 14 interceptions. He wasn't so bad before. He just had a horrible 2013 year. Maybe he looked done. 2014, he bounced back. It was... I mean, Mike Evans. Tampa Bay with Mike Evans. That was the other one. But go ahead. Small sample size,
Starting point is 00:29:32 but how excited are we about George Pickens based on a couple games he played without Deontay Johnson last year? But that was pretty miserable quarterback play, too. So these guys that are talented like that can overcome some crappy situations. But I get it. If you're not sold on this guy and this situation, you're going to avoid him.
Starting point is 00:29:48 Who did you move him ahead of? I moved him ahead of the T. Higgins, Devontae Smith. So I had moved him to 27 toward the end of last week. And then I moved him up over the weekend ahead of Devontae Smith, T. Higgins, and, uh, DJ more. Okay.
Starting point is 00:30:09 And Michael, go ahead, Heath. I'm like, I just want to be very, very clear. So this is like on, can we mark the tape Thomas?
Starting point is 00:30:16 And so if Malik neighbors hits, you can play it. I am not, I have no doubts about Malik neighbors. He is a top nine dynasty wide receiver for me. I think he's supremely talented in a uniquely terrible situation. And I appreciate the giants beat riders balancing the Malik neighbors highlights with the Daniel Jones ducks. Like we just get one
Starting point is 00:30:38 back and forth and back and forth. And it seems like the market's going to react to the highlights and that's pretty much it, and that's fine. Malik Nabors is awesome. Last year, it was Darren Waller. Darren Waller was having an amazing training camp. The Giants were terrible at covering tight ends. I think the Giants are going to be one of the worst pass defenses, at least their secondary.
Starting point is 00:31:01 I mean, their pass rush might end up being good. Their secondary stinks, so keep that in mind. It's going to be really difficult for the pass rush once somebody starts blocking them. Well, yeah, but they should have a good pass rush. They've got some really good pass rushes. They do. That's the other thing about the Daniel Jones ducks, in fairness to him, is a lot of them probably would have been sacks
Starting point is 00:31:19 before he threw the ball. Okay, so, yeah, no, their offensive line. No, there's people in his face. He's also what two weeks into you know practicing in quotes uh from an acl tear you know so he's only gonna get hopefully stronger and the bottom line is that neighbors is gonna get good volume you've got to think at least eight targets per game and that's something that's different from what giants receivers have done under dable but i don't know if they've really got a choice.
Starting point is 00:31:45 Well, Dable didn't have a guy like this. Yeah, exactly. He'll get his targets. And when, when neighbors was drafted, Darren Waller was still on the team.
Starting point is 00:31:52 Like he could have made the case. I made the case that they're, they're going to spread targets around too much. That's probably not going to happen now. All right. Last thing is, uh, this is a,
Starting point is 00:32:01 one of those where I feel like his ADP has been too high. We've been saying that, I guess maybe, maybe we we don't some of us don't feel that way anymore but if you want neighbors and even if you think his adp is gonna be too high but you're like man he's so exciting he could have such a huge impact i play in five leagues or whatever you're gonna have to reach for him you know it's just and i wouldn't even argue against. I might do that in one of our drafts just to make sure that I have Malik neighbors on one team. Right, right. But, yeah. Okay.
Starting point is 00:32:30 All right. Let me run through some other news items here. Taysom Hill is going to do a lot of stuff this season. According to Saints head coach Dennis Allen, he's been playing a lot of different positions. Great. Yeah. You can probably expect him near the goal line
Starting point is 00:32:45 where he's been very good. He converted. He only had four opportunities, but Taysom Hill converted all four of his third-and-one and fourth-and-one opportunities. By the way, you know who didn't have a single carry on third or fourth-and-one last year? Chase Brown.
Starting point is 00:32:57 You know who had, like, 16 or 15, I think? Zach Moss. So who's getting those carries? I mean, to be fair, how many opportunities does Jace Brown have? Period, by comparison. Right, but I'm just saying, doesn't that just seem like you've got a one-yard gain or you're at the two-yard line on first and goal? Who's coming in?
Starting point is 00:33:16 Okay, let me ask you the next question. How many running backs not named Joe Mixon had those opportunities? Nobody. It was Mixon's role. So why would they take Mixon out those opportunities? Nobody. It was Mixon's role. So why would they take Mixon out of that role? Well, who's Mixon? Well, he's not on the team anymore. That's Moss, I'm saying.
Starting point is 00:33:33 We don't know. We don't know, but you can assume that Moss is big. Yeah, I don't know. I've seen a lot of people this summer pushing back on Zamir White and saying, LOL, Alexander Madison. Zach Moss could just as easily, I think, be Alexander Madison as Zamir White. I wouldn't just assume that Zach Moss is Joe Mixon.
Starting point is 00:33:57 I said this from the signing. Every time he got an opportunity, he either struggled or got hurt. He had some good moments in Buffalo, and then when he started to look like, okay, he's going to run away from Devin Singletary. He didn't. Nope. Yeah. That was good moments in Indy.
Starting point is 00:34:11 You can't beat Devin Singletary though. Like Devin, no, nobody beats out Devin Singletary. He's led his team in rushing all five, all five seasons. All right. Let's see. Christian Barmore for the Patriots. Very good young defensive tackle. He's out indefinitely with blood clots.
Starting point is 00:34:26 Hope he's better soon. Miami says they want to be less reliant on big plays this year. They were 21st in plays last year. They want to be a little bit less reliant on the home run. Jets wide receiver and kick returner. That's why he's important. Xavier Gibson, very good kick returner. He's going to miss one to two weeks with a lower extremity injury.
Starting point is 00:34:45 Also, rookie receiver Malachi Corley, head coach Robert Salas, said his route running is getting there, but he has a long way to go. We had Tua and Jordan Love sign huge contracts that maybe we'll talk about how terrible they are in a couple years. We'll see. Russell Wilson's still out with a calf injury. Oh, that's a dumb beat. That's beating. Yeah, I think he even said,
Starting point is 00:35:06 if we were playing this week, I'd play. But we've seen calf injuries linger, Joe Burrow. What do you think about this one, Jamie? I think the fact that Fields is getting a lot of positive momentum is not good for Russell Wilson. You know, so if Wilson... I'd be very surprised if Wilson...
Starting point is 00:35:23 Unless he's out for, you know, several weeks with this. But if Wilson, I'd be very surprised if Wilson, unless he's out for several weeks with this, but if Wilson's back soon and he gets the opportunity to be the starter, which is what I would expect, the minute that something goes very, very poorly for him, we could see Justin Fields in there. So whether that's in game or following a bad game, I don't think there's going to be a long leash for Russell Wilson. I think once he starts to struggle, Justin Fields is coming in. I didn't say him because he doesn't matter to anybody else, but Russell Wilson was somebody who I moved down a few spots this weekend. So can I just get some clarity on something? Cause I was under the impression that Justin Fields was not having a good camp and that he was still struggling with inconsistency and accuracy.
Starting point is 00:36:02 And that's, so, you know, I, I was looking at some stuff last night and it, it's the same thing like with Daniel. Yep. So, you know, I was looking at some stuff last night, and it's the same thing like with Daniel Jones. It's, you know, he makes one amazing highlight play, Fields does, and you get positive reviews, and then he's struggling with his consistency.
Starting point is 00:36:16 The thing with these quarterbacks in new situations, whether it's new coach or new team or anything like that, the thing that you want to keep an eye on, and for the people that track it it is what's their completion percentage um how accurate are they because interceptions should not matter they're trying things they're trying plays they're trying to be aggressive in certain situations see what their quarterbacks can do don't look at those things if they're just completely missing like that's the thing that you should start to get a little bit concerned about not necessarily panic by any stretch but if they're if they're consistently seven for 20 you know eight for eight for 21 you know like those are things you want to be a little bit more worried
Starting point is 00:36:51 about but you know how are they looking you know in the highlights that you see in terms of avoiding pressure like he was talking about you know daniel jones taking sacks you know like are they standing in the pocket too long and just because the defense isn't touching them they're they're not getting quote unquote hit. But Fields is just different. I mean, like when he does something, Russell Wilson can't do that at this point in his career,
Starting point is 00:37:11 you know, and so if he's able to do some things that the Steelers like, he may end up winning the job. All right. I'm going to try to fire through the rest of these here. Isaiah Likely said the Ravens
Starting point is 00:37:21 want him to play everywhere. Wide receiver out of the backfield. Isaiah Likely probably won't have value, but interesting everywhere. Wide receiver, out of the backfield, Isaiah Likely. Probably won't have value, but interesting there. Hopefully he doesn't take away from others. Dallas edge rusher Sam Williams is out for the season with a torn ACL. That's a big blow for them. Yeah, that hurts their depth a lot.
Starting point is 00:37:41 Marvin Mims, according to ESPN, is going to be used in a variety of ways, including on the outside as a big play guy and possibly on kickoffs. That's Marvin Mims for the Broncos. Deshaun Watson's making progress. Hopefully he'll be kind of full go throwing every day pretty soon. This was back on Friday. I don't even know. Are Rashawn Slater and J.K. Dobbins back?
Starting point is 00:37:57 They left Friday's practice early. I don't think it was anything. Harbaugh's been pretty quiet on injuries like He wouldn't talk about Gus Edwards and his surgery. He didn't address Slater and Dobbins. Poor Dobbins. After he has that story that Schefter retweeted and everybody I think got excited about it. I know I had the, I will not draft Dobbins.
Starting point is 00:38:19 I will not draft Dobbins. I'm going to draft Dobbins. And I got a lot of responses now. It just felt bad for the kid, man. I spoke to a former teammate of his this weekend and he told me, he's like, if he could ever stay healthy, he's just so explosive, but clearly that's the issue. And so you just want to see him, you know,
Starting point is 00:38:35 go out there and do what he's capable of doing. But at this point, it's just like, you got to see it for a consistent stretch. So hopefully it's nothing, you know, and just, you know, like Drake London had the heat situation, you know, where he left practice that sort of made some people panic. I would imagine that if if there is something significant with Slater, with Dobbins, even with Edwards, you know, we'll we'll hear it from somebody other than Harbaugh. Dobbins was doing individual drills on Saturday. Slater was out.
Starting point is 00:39:00 OK. Rams cornerback Darius Williams has a hamstring strain. Rams are a team that's had some injuries in their secondary. Detroit kicker Michael Badgley out for the season. Torn hamstring for Badgley. Jake Bates is the frontrunner to be Detroit's kicker. UFL legend Jake Bates. Of course.
Starting point is 00:39:18 You probably watched all of his games start to finish, Mr. Football. I had nothing else going on. 49ers reporter Nick Wagoner said, Debo Samuel continues to look like a guy with something to prove. Given the shape he's in and how motivated he seems, a big year for Debo Samuel, if
Starting point is 00:39:35 healthy, seems very possible. Jacksonville reporter, yeah, go ahead, Heath. Did you say something? I said good. Jacksonville reporter John Shipley thinks that Brian Thomas is their number four wide receiver option right now. Did he say wide receiver option or number four option? Number four option.
Starting point is 00:39:53 Number four option. Oh, okay. He included Ingram in there. Oh, did he include ETN? I don't believe so. I think it was Kirk Ingram and Gabe Davis ahead of Thomas. I would guess the target pecking order probably. Gotcha.
Starting point is 00:40:09 Jalen Warren is in great shape apparently. His conditioning, he worked on his conditioning. He's having a good camp. Mark Carman of NBC Sports Chicago said that Keenan Allen is a quarterback's best friend, constantly open. And Patrick Mahomes likes Marquise Brown's versatility. He said he's not just a deep ball guy. He can do this, he can do that.
Starting point is 00:40:29 And this, I put a segment of players having a good camp. I put Malik Neighbors on there. Roman Wilson for Pittsburgh, rookie wide receiver. Been working with the ones, yes. As a slot guy. Carolina wide receiver Jonathan Mingo is having a good camp. That's good to see. Jets wide receiver Alan Lazard.
Starting point is 00:40:47 You know, it's very possible that Mike Williams isn't ready for week one. Maybe Alan Lazard, who obviously has chemistry with Aaron Rodgers. Maybe he is something. Streamworthy or something. I don't know. They play the Niners in week one. I'm not saying you're starting in week one, but you don't have to do anything with this.
Starting point is 00:41:02 These are just names to know right now. Greg Dulcich for the Broncos having a good camp tight end and jalen hurts having a really good camp i thought lucas kroll was having a good camp i thought he shut that down right okay i thought so who's he sean payton yeah sean payton yeah i thought so but yeah broncos need as many guys who as possible to have a good camp. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Alright, quarterback updates. Denver, it's a three-way race right now for Denver.
Starting point is 00:41:31 Minnesota, we're expecting Sam Darnold to start week one, right? Yes. Not unless J.J. McCarthy can put it all together really quickly. Are you expecting Jaden Daniels to start week one, or is it still too early to say for Washington? Oh, God, if they start Marcus Mariota.
Starting point is 00:41:47 If they start Mariota, something has gone very wrong with Jaden Daniels. New England, we're expecting Jacoby Brissett, probably, but Drake May is competing. May have a good weekend, though. Raiders, it has not been a great battle there between O'Connell and Minshew.
Starting point is 00:42:06 Who are they trading for? Yeah. But everything seems to indicate like it's going to be really hard for Minshew to take the job from O'Connell before week one, right? He's got to turn it up. It sounds like it's there for the taking, but he's got to get going, man.
Starting point is 00:42:20 Heath, you got to call him up and give him a pep talk. I'm expecting O'Connell week one and Minshew by like week three. I'm expecting to take a break and come back and talk about our do not draft list. We've talked so far about Aaron Jones, Zay Flowers, and Jordan Love. Who else makes the do not draft list for Jamie, Dave, and Heath? We'll tell you right after this on FFT. Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference. Securian Canada gives you that coverage. right after this on FFT. focus on what truly matters. Find their products through banks, credit unions, and associations,
Starting point is 00:43:10 or visit SecurianCanada.ca. Securian Canada, insurance designed for life. Miller Lite. The light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Lite set out to brew a light beer, they had to choose great taste or 90 calories per can. They chose both because they knew the best part of beer is the beer. Your game time tastes like Miller time. Learn more at MillerLite.ca. Must be legal drinking age. All right, welcome back, folks.
Starting point is 00:43:44 Remember, live stream tomorrow night, Tuesday night. Join us, 8 p.m. Eastern. I know a lot of you listen to the show the day after, drinking age. yeah hit like people that's good or go even further and subscribe oh okay like everybody hitting like i mean that that just means that we're just like you know who we are we know who you are but when you subscribe that means we're like we're we're we're buds we're tight that's cool but if you've already subscribed then liking every single video is super important. So please do that. That enhances the kinship that we've made with each other. Thank you. Yeah, last thing. This one I don't really care about because apparently I'm not good enough to be on it today. But a few of the guys will be on CBS Sports Network this afternoon at 1 p.m. Eastern.
Starting point is 00:44:41 If you want to watch that lame show without me. Well, we just wanted it to be good. Yeah, I got fired from that. Now, we're going to be rotating on CBS Sports Network. We're going to be on there a lot, 1 p.m. this afternoon, Monday, and you should be able to see that on demand on YouTube as well. All right, you know what, Heath? I'm going to let you start here with your Do Not Draft list.
Starting point is 00:45:01 You gave us Jordan Love. Let's talk about Jordan Addison, who's going 88th overall on CBS as wide receiver 38. 103rd overall as wide receiver 46 on Draft Sharks. And Brock Bowers is another guy on your do not draft list.
Starting point is 00:45:15 He's going around 100th overall. He's tight end 11 on both CBS and our PPR ADP. If you go to CBS ADP, make sure you toggle to PPR. It's a lot more reliable than the non at this point. And yeah, tight end 11 for Bowers on both CBS and DraftSharks.
Starting point is 00:45:28 But we'll start with Addison on your do not draft list. Yeah, and I like I'm going to start with we did a bust show not too long ago. You mentioned like what's the difference between a do not draft and a bust. I tried to choose some lower end guys for the do not draft list. I was not looking at DraftSharks ADP. Wide receiver 46 is about four spots higher than where I have Jordan Hedison, but I hate the vibes coming out about Jordan Hedison in this situation with Minnesota. It sounds like Sam Darnold and Justin Jefferson
Starting point is 00:45:56 have made a great connection. Jefferson's obviously going to see 10 to 12 targets per game. I'm not sure it's going to be a prolific passing attack in Minnesota outside of those targets though. And once Hawkinson comes back, I'm not sure Addison's going to matter hardly at all. So I am not, I put a poll on Twitter today. How many NFC North wide receivers would you draft before Jordan Addison? I mentioned earlier that I have Jamison Williams ahead of Jordan Addison, just one spot now. And he is my eighth. There are eight wide receivers in the NFC North that I would draft for Jordan Addison.
Starting point is 00:46:30 Ooh. All right, let's go. Let's name them. St. Brown, Williams, Jefferson,
Starting point is 00:46:36 Jalen Naylor, uh, uh, the two guys on the Packers, loving Watson and three bears. Oh, Roma doomsay. Yep. Three Bears. And three Bears. Roma Dunze? Yep. Three Little Bears?
Starting point is 00:46:48 Three Little Bears. I was thinking about Addison versus JSN. Where are you guys on that? He had 71 more fantasy points than JSN last year. How do you have those two guys ranked? JSN higher. JSN higher. I still have Addison.
Starting point is 00:47:07 Are you worried heath that you're maybe like just looking at the negatives and forgetting about how successful of a rookie season he had and also isn't he just like isn't he just a more dynamic option than tj hockinson coming off a torn acl shouldn't it be hockinson that suffers and not addison. It might be. I think that like how successful a season Jordan Addison had does come back a little bit to my feelings about when a guy, such a high percentage of his success was based on touchdowns. 900 yards though. 900 yards. 900,
Starting point is 00:47:38 911 yards in 17 games on a team that threw the ball 17,000 times with a quarterback. That was much better than the quarterback they're going to have this year and three games without justin jefferson only for half the year though with cousins to be fair right yeah all right all right um brock bowers tight end 11 i don't think this is going to be a very successful passing attack in Las Vegas this year. It's kind of the Malik neighbor's argument, except Devontae Adams is there. And even if Devontae Adams takes a step back, I'm pretty certain Devontae Adams, like Justin Jefferson, is going to see 10 to 11 targets per game. I don't think Michael Mayer is not going to play.
Starting point is 00:48:21 Antonio Pierce is saying we've got to make sure he can block before anything else um I I don't think I I don't want to doubt Brock Bowers he's a top five dynasty tight end but I think this is a really bad environment and you can draft Pat Fryermuth 50 picks later and I'd rather start Pat Firemuth. It's kind of an interesting comparison to neighbors too. I really like that call. We don't doubt the talent for Bowers. But yeah, go ahead, Dave, what were you saying? I think I have a blind spot here. And I love the talent too much for Bowers.
Starting point is 00:48:58 And I think about these quarterbacks and how they might be reluctant to challenge downfield on a regular basis. I think about how Minshew made Michael Pittman such a stud, and Bauer's probably better to catch a bunch of throws that are inside of 15 yards than Devontae. They both will. And I think his versatility just brings something different to that offense.
Starting point is 00:49:21 And I can draft Bowers and Fryermuth, and and I can start Friar Muth week one, but by week five or six Bowers could be a big time player. So I'm, I'm kind of still in on Brock Bowers. I think the talent could win out there. I think for, for Bowers, for me,
Starting point is 00:49:35 it's, you know, I think I said this last week, like Dalton Kincaid had a very good rookie season for a tight end. Like he wasn't fantastic. He wasn't Sam Laporta. He was good. You know, in some points he was a starter i feel like bowers is gonna have that type of year you know like i i think we look at bowers and your mind says well if laporta can do that why
Starting point is 00:49:54 can't he same thing with cj shot you look at these rookie quarterbacks you say well one could do it the previous year why can't the next guy do it um he he's in a great situation because he could easily be number two on the team and targets but But if Devontae Adams is still going to be 180, 175 plus target guy, and they want to run the ball as much as they are, where is the leftovers going? Is the leftovers going to Jacoby Myers and Bowers? Thankfully, you said Jacoby Myers. We haven't said Jacoby Myers' name yet. Do you think he gets more targets than Bowers. I'm thankful you said Jacoby Myers. We haven't said Jacoby Myers' name yet. Do you think he gets more targets than Bowers?
Starting point is 00:50:30 Do I think Myers gets more targets than Bowers? I think total, yes. I think it's one of those early for Myers, later for Bowers. So we see early in the season, it's still Myers being the second target getter by the end of the season as Bowers. Look, he's going to have some very good games. But it's just like you brought up Neighbors, and Neighbors is walking into a bad situation,
Starting point is 00:50:49 but he's going to be the focal point. Bowers is walking into a mediocre situation, probably a little bit better than Neighbors, just because I think there's probably on par quarterback play. But he doesn't have the pressure of having to carry that passing game. Like Neighbors has that pressure of having to carry the passing game. Like neighbors has that pressure of having to carry the passing. Um, Bowers can easily be the number two guy there,
Starting point is 00:51:07 but it's, it just feels like there's not enough volume for him to be drafted as a starter. And Dave's right. You know, if you want to draft hours, you can easily back them up with not just Ferguson, but you can still go get,
Starting point is 00:51:18 um, you know, uh, Hunter Henry or, or Conklin or Schultz, or, you know, even Dallas Goddard's a good guy.
Starting point is 00:51:25 You could pair with them, you know, if you want to go on the higher end of the, of the spectrum. So there there's, there's number two tight ends, but it just feels like, you know,
Starting point is 00:51:31 do you want to commit yourself to two tight ends in that range? For me, I'd rather just take Ferguson and forget about it. And I'm okay with the two tight end idea. If I can draft two of them in round 11, 12, 13, I don't want to draft a tight end in round 8 and then draft another. I have to draft
Starting point is 00:51:46 another tight end too. Give me the ADP on Bowers again. Around 100th. 90th, 8th? Yeah, 100th. I'm okay with it. In PPR, I'd be okay with that. Yeah, I just thought that the whole Nick Saban thing
Starting point is 00:52:02 on Hard Knocks last week, I almost feel like people might be forgetting, by the way, I'm not, this is not a disagreement with, with what Heath was saying. Might be forgetting just how good of a, of a tight end prospect Brock Bowers is.
Starting point is 00:52:14 I feel like I was a little bit, I know it, but I almost felt like I was maybe a little bit too negative on him. Dave, I know you love him as a player. We all love him as a player. All right. So I'm gonna keep in mind.
Starting point is 00:52:27 All right, so 100th is good for Dave. Tight end 11, maybe a little bit too rich or just not worth it for Heath. Just wait for Friar Muth. Jamie, you said Aaron Jones. Let me talk about James Conner because he's basically back-to-back in ADP with Aaron Jones. We're talking about RBs 19 and 20. Yeah, 30-year-old running back.
Starting point is 00:52:43 I love the offense. I think it's going to be very successful, but I think Trey Benson's the toughest competition that he's had since 20. Yeah. 30 year old running back. You know, I love the offense. I think it's going to be very successful, but I think Trey Benson's the toughest competitions that he's had since coming to Arizona, uh, last year, first thousand yard season, uh,
Starting point is 00:52:52 first time five yards per carry. Is he going to have the opportunity to back that up and do it again, uh, with his quarterback back and how much he does as a runner. Um, I'm just a little nervous, you know, and so,
Starting point is 00:53:02 you know, these, these older players, I mean, the list I gave you was basically the, the, the kind of theme for me is, you know, avoiding older players that I don't really love the setup for, and he's one of them. So as a backend RB two, it's hard to argue with what he can be if he's healthy, but he's missed three plus games in four of the last five seasons. And again, how much is Benson going to play a role? I'm, I'm just
Starting point is 00:53:21 nervous that Connor is going to disappoint based on how productive he's been. And look, he's been very underrated, and I think he might still be underrated if he plays the majority of the season. But I just don't expect that to happen for a guy who's got an injury track record like his, entering his age 30 season, and again, the competition behind him. So he's not somebody that I'll be drafting very much on. For the record, he's going to be 29 this year. And he doesn't even have 30 this year he does not not till may of 2025 i'm sorry so 29 but i mean honestly it's not that big of a deal uh just under 1400 career touches so there is something left in the tank theoretically i agree with you he's going to miss games so if you draft con, you have to be prepared for that.
Starting point is 00:54:05 But when he does play, he's pretty good. I don't want to leave that on the table, especially in an offense. I agree with you, man. I think Arizona's offense could take another step forward this year. And I think having Marvin Harrison there is a huge reason why. Okay. And then Mike Evans, 33rd overall for Jamie. He's wide receiver 14.
Starting point is 00:54:24 No, sorry. Mike Evans is on Jamie's do not draft list. He's going 33rd overall for Jamie. He's wide receiver 14. No, sorry. Mike Evans is on Jamie's do not draft list. He's going 33rd overall. The way I said it was a little confusing there. On CBS, 33rd overall, wide receiver 14. On DraftSharks, Mike Evans is 39th overall, wide receiver 16. So what if I gave you that later ADP, 39th overall? All right, now we're into round four.
Starting point is 00:54:44 Would you draft Mike Evans there? Yeah, no, I, I, I, I'd certainly consider, I just, as I framed it to you, you know, these are guys that I'm just typically taking other players that are going around him. And so for me at his age, you know, wide receivers, 31 or older, eight of the last 63 going back to 2014, uh, only eight have been top 11 guys. Um, most of them have been in the teens. And I think that's kind of where Evans will fall to if he's healthy and stays to the same level of production that he's been.
Starting point is 00:55:13 There was another positive report this morning on Jalen McMillan and just how he's developing a strong rapport with Baker Mayfield. And so that's another guy that could take away from Evans. Mostly it's going to be, in my opinion, Chris Godwin, you know, going back to his more natural spot and, and, you know, usurping targets again. And so it's banking on Evans at his age, it's banking on Godwin being better. It's banking on another guy, you know, taking another step forward in this offense that, you know, maybe they're hoping Trey Parker would have done last year. Um, and Baker taking a little bit of a step back. So I'm just concerned about Evans and, um, you know, the, the price you have to pay for him,
Starting point is 00:55:45 which is again, I'm not far off on what the ADP is, but just not somebody that I tend to draft very much of. Yeah. I feel the same way. And you know, I don't think I'm going to have a lot of Mike Evans cause there are so many receivers. Just like you said, it's just that big group of receivers. I just feel like every time I'm on the clock and Evans is there, there's someone else I like better. So who are some of the guys for you? Waddle. Uh, Waddle,
Starting point is 00:56:10 Nico are two guys that I would take over him. Um, I'm sure by comparison to Heath, I would take Drake London over him. I don't think that's an ADP thing though. Um, both 49ers guys for now, you know,
Starting point is 00:56:20 just based on, uh, hopefully Brandon and I being in, in camp, but I probably haven't just because I, him just because I push up the receivers. I probably have him ahead of what the ADP is even. Okay. Anyone want to comment on Evans or shall we move on?
Starting point is 00:56:35 I feel like we could do like the Spider-Man meme thing with Jamie and I having the conversation about Mike Evans and Derrick Henry. And I'm just like, I'm not doubting Mike Evans anymore. It's just kind of the same. It's the same type of conversation. Right. But it's... We're on opposite sides.
Starting point is 00:56:52 Opposite sides. I'm the same as the two of you guys. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And how about we go to Dave's? So you gave us Zay Flowers earlier. Devante Smith and Kyle Pitts are the other two guys that are on your Do Not Draft list. So also, disclaimer, gave us a flowers earlier, Devante Smith and Kyle pits are the other two guys that you are there on
Starting point is 00:57:06 your do not draft list. So also disclaimer, there's really no such thing as a do not draft list. Right. Smith. I'm taking these guys. If they fall, I'm just not taking them at what the ADP says.
Starting point is 00:57:16 All right. So talk about Devante Smith. I just don't like that. Every time he's played beyond expectations is when somebody else is hurt in Philadelphia. And so now that they've added Saquon, I just, I wonder even if Dallas got her Mrs. Time, is it really going to be a huge jump for Devante Smith where we can expect him to be north of 15 PPR points per game? Last year, he was at 14.2. That's not bad year before 15,
Starting point is 00:57:40 but he's had long stretches in each of those years where he's been right around 12. He'll be terrible for a few weeks and then he pops for a big game and then he's back to being terrible. I don't think he's very consistent. I don't think he's worth that round three or four pick when, when there isn't going to be the type of production from him compared to others, assuming everything in Philadelphia stays as it is like Mike Evans to me is someone I'm taking ahead of Devante Smith, not saying that Devante Smith is a bad player by any stretch. He's a ton of fun, but I just don't think that the opportunity will be there for him. Like it will be for other receivers in the league who might even be worse
Starting point is 00:58:16 than him. The talent wise. Yeah. So I, I agree with most of what you're saying. The only thing that I'm curious about, and we don't know the answer to this and we've, we've discussed it a little bit,
Starting point is 00:58:26 is what role will he play in Kellen Moore's offense? You know, and we, you know, I think Adam, I don't remember who we've gone back and forth with on this, but I know you brought it up, of will he be the guy that sort of benefits the most? Will he be the one that moves around more than AJ Brown? I don't know if it was me, honestly. I think it was Schneier.
Starting point is 00:58:41 I didn't say it was you. I know you brought it up. No, Schneier is the one who brought it up first. Maybe it was Dan, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, that he was, you honestly. I think it was Schneier. I didn't say it was you. I know you brought it up. Schneier is the one who brought it up first. Maybe it was Dan, yeah. That he was seeing that it was potentially him. And it could be both. They're both so talented. They both have the opportunity to do a variety of things.
Starting point is 00:58:54 And so if he is the one that's getting more opportunities inside, and if he's the one that's going to get a lot more of the benefit with the pre-snap motion and all those things that come with Kellen Moore's offense, that it could be that we're just way behind. And again, I'm with you, Dave, I don't want to reach for him at this cost. I do think that, you know, and I know this is something Heath has mentioned about Jalen Waddle. When there is the opening, because Dallas Goddard has missed time, then you are getting a borderline top 10, if not top five caliber player. And so what we've seen for the last two years, it's been a three or four game absence for
Starting point is 00:59:28 Dallas Goddard. What if that's more, what if that's more for Goddard? What if that's potentially more for AJ Brown? Then you're talking about league winning type of guy. And you shouldn't be drafting based on potential injuries because, you know, bank on that. But there is still that scenario that we have seen for him where Jalen hurts lean on. So you're still getting the floor of what Devante Smith has been. The ceiling is again,
Starting point is 00:59:50 potentially top five guy, but certainly top 10 guy, if there is an absence. And so I don't, I don't mind him as, as a second receiver. I have him for where I would draft. Cause he's,
Starting point is 01:00:00 you know, in that 20 to 25 range, I'm typically taking three of those guys. So he's usually a number three receiver for me but most people will be drafting him as number two and i think that's still okay so i i don't disagree with what you said but um so if if you go early running backs quarterback tight end and in your first four rounds and he's you know some of you're getting around five or six receiver i think that's okay i'm fine with round five as well but the contingency upside for injury argument
Starting point is 01:00:25 can be applied to literally everybody in the league. No. But you've seen it with him. No, no. What do you mean no? No, there are wide receivers who are going to be drafted as number ones of their own team who are going to be drafted in the same range as Devontae Smith
Starting point is 01:00:39 who do not have the same upside if the guy getting 160 targets on their team disappears because there's nobody else on their team getting 160 targets. The contingent upside is not, I want to say, what Jamie said, the way he said it is right. You should not draft based on potential injuries, but you should be able to look at two guys who have a similar ADP and a similar projection and think about how could this guy turn into a league winner versus how could this guy turn into a league winner and if the answer for one of them is yeah I really can't see it like I don't think Christian Kirk really has contingent upside right um I don't think there's a way that Christian Kirk's going to
Starting point is 01:01:22 turn into a top eight wide receiver if something something happens to A.J. Brown, that's absolutely possible for Devontae Smith. It's not just A.J. Brown, though, because we saw it with Dalton. Right. Sure. Okay. I think that's fair. Yeah. I mean, I was going to make the argument that we saw a contingency upside for Mike Evans last year because Godwin was not himself and Mike Evans had a monster season.
Starting point is 01:01:44 But I think his argument is the flip side of that. Sure. No, no, no. You're right. Godwin was not himself and Mike Evans had a monster season. But I think his argument is the flip side of that. Sure. No, no, no. You're right. Godwin was an absolute stud. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:01:50 Right. And another thing I would say is. But I mean, still for the outside of those types of players, we can always say, well, this guy gets hurt. That benefits that guy.
Starting point is 01:02:01 Right. But the, the argument would be if you're, if you're comparing Devante Smith Smith to Devontae Adams. Right. Okay, fair. So if Brock Bowers were to get hurt or totally stink, that's really not going to change the outlook for Devontae Adams. Correct. Okay, I get it. But we're also drafting Devontae Adams before Devontae Smith. And then I think the other thing is Devontae Smith's ADP, it's a pretty big range, it seems like.
Starting point is 01:02:23 Yes. I've got him at 51st. I think that's where Dave said he had him. Yeah, that's right, about where I am. He's 47th in CBS or on DraftSharks, one of the two, and 30-something on the other one. So if he's available at the four or five turn, I'm a lot more interested than I am earlier than that.
Starting point is 01:02:39 Okay, looking at DraftSharks ADP, Devante Smith is going as wide receiver 23. He is going in between DJ Moore and Malik Neighbors. Rather have the other guys. I have it both guys over. I'm sorry, I have Neighbors, Smith, Moore. I think I have Moore, Smith, Neighbors. Well, I know Neighbors is last.
Starting point is 01:03:01 Moore, Neighbors, Smith. We could all use Moore, Smith, Neighb last. More neighbors, Smith. We could all use more Smith neighbors. They're good people. Okay, and Kyle Pitts is the last guy. I don't really know what that means. Just think about a family whose last name is Smith. They're very nice. Dave, Kyle's Pitts is, even if he's going about 70th overall,
Starting point is 01:03:20 that's still too early for you on Kyle Pitts. I just don't plan on being in on Kyle Pitts. I know that there were some recent positive reports. I think Drake London missed some snaps when Kyle Pitts was starting to get targeted from Kirk cousins and Heath's right to move up a lot of Falcons players because Kirk cousins is back and he seems fine, but I just, I don't want to fall for Kyle Pitts four years in a row. I just want to see him look explosive and look good. I think I'll get a chance to, he practices against the dolphins for a couple of days and a couple in like a
Starting point is 01:03:54 week or so. Hopefully I'm there. Hopefully I see him. Hopefully he looks great and I changed my tune, but for now, I think he's being overdrafted. Yeah. But next year is the year. I got a feeling if he can't get it done this year, he might not even be on the Falcons next year. Kyle Pitts is tight end seven in between Kittle and Ingram. I'm taking Kittle and Ingram ahead of him.
Starting point is 01:04:20 Okay. Kittle for sure. I like Pitts over Ingram. i like both over kittle and we only had nine names we had uh addison bowers and love for heath evans jones aaron jones and connor for jamie davante smith zay flowers and kyle pitts for dave let's make it an even 10 here's a do not draft for adam i'm not going to be drafting a lot of DeAndre Swift. I just have absolutely no idea what kind of role he's going to have. I know we always say if Khalil Herbert gets traded,
Starting point is 01:04:53 that's really something that we are trying to will into existence. So as of right now, I'm just going to say Khalil Herbert's not going to get traded. I love DeAndre Swift. I always have loved him as a player. Jacob brought up on last week's show that he's one of the worst short yardage running backs in the NFL. I don't think I was quite aware of that. So I just don't know how that's playing out,
Starting point is 01:05:15 and there are just too many damn mouths to feed. And a quarterback who rushed for 21 touchdowns over his last two seasons at USC, it's not because I think Swift stinks because I think he's not going to be that good or reliable for fantasy. So do the thing you make us do. Connor, Aaron Jones, DeAndre Swift.
Starting point is 01:05:31 Connor Swift Jones. Connor Jones Swift. Connor Jones Swift. You got it. I just took Zach Moss over Swift like a week ago in the Scott Fish Bowl. I'll take Swift over Jones. But now I think I might have to put Swift ahead of Moss.
Starting point is 01:05:47 Yeah, I probably have to put Swift ahead of Moss. What about you guys? Swift or Moss? I would put Swift ahead of Moss, yes. And I had that all along. Did you? Because I thought you supported me taking Moss over Swift last time. No, I supported you because you liked
Starting point is 01:06:03 Moss. They were back-to-back. I did have Swift 23, Moss 24. Now it's Swift 23, Moss 29. All right, that's 10. There you go. 10 players on the Do Not Draft list, plus a lot of rankings movers over the weekend.
Starting point is 01:06:17 And that's your Monday episode. We'll talk to you tomorrow on Fantasy Football Today. This is a fun week. Our live stream start and our position preview start. And we're looking forward to it. Have a good day, everybody. First game. First game. This is a fun week. Our live streams start and our position previews start and we're looking forward to it. Have a good day, everybody.
Starting point is 01:06:27 Great game. First game. Man, whatever. Hall of Fame game doesn't really count, does it? But yes, I'll be watching. And Dave, please don't watch
Starting point is 01:06:35 the fourth quarter. All right, we'll talk to you tomorrow on Fantasy Football. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.