Fantasy Football Today - Early DO NOT DRAFT List! (02/16 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and wherever else you listen to podcasts.  You know those players you just can't get excited about drafting? We've got an early list of our DO NOT DRAFT players after we start with some news and notes (4:10). Do the Buccaneers feel like an "avoid" team for Fantasy purposes? ... Jamey, Dan and Adam reveal the players they do not want to draft at their current cost. For Dan, that includes Jonathan Taylor (11:40)! Meanwhile, Jamey is avoiding Josh Jacobs with a Top 20 pick (17:05) and Dan just doesn't really like Travis Etienne that much (19:30) ... Making the cases against DeAndre Hopkins (26:15) and Chris Godwin (28:40) and then Adam tells you all four of his players who are on the DO NOT DRAFT list (32:50) including Isiah Pacheco. Finally, Dan dishes on George Pickens (49:10) and why he won't be drafting Pickens at his current value ... Your emails at [e-mail] Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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No, I can? It's time to dominate your fantasy league. Off to the races! And he stays on his feet! It's just going to go the distance! Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. Happy Thursday, everyone. We don't do Friday shows anymore, so I don't get to say happy Friday.

So, happy Thursday, and get ready for an awesome weekend. Nobody's working Fridays these days, right? Everybody's three-day weekends or whatever. Why don't you just say because some people might listen on Friday. True. I also like how Adam applies our fantasy football. The football season's over, so we're obviously less busy on Fridays. That doesn't mean everyone else

is now not working on Fridays. Well, no one's working on Monday, at least. We are going into a holiday weekend, so everybody have an awesome holiday weekend. Today, we're talking about the Do Not Draftless, an early version of our Do Not Draftless. Players, we're just skipping them. Not really

feeling it. For one of us on this show, I'm not going to say who. Jonathan Taylor is on his Do Not Draftless. Travis Jonathan Taylor is on his do not draft list. Travis ETN is on his do not draft list. I mean, why the hell would you just, the whole point of the show is to tease, not to give away the goods within the first minute of the show. I didn't say who it was.

I just said, you could have said like too high running back, but now you're just down all those big. Okay, great. All of all two of them. Yeah. You know, one of your your i don't think this happened on the air but this is dan schneier by the way that's dan schneier jamie's here i'm adam uh one of your worst moments was when i told you last week i said hey on tuesday

chris frank and i are going to lunch in the city. And you said, Oh, thanks for the invite. And that's what was happening at the time. I was inviting you. You say, thanks for the invite after the event already happened. Right. You said it a week before. I thought I misinterpreted.

I thought the event had already happened. Then it did happen, but it came at like the exact time I had a meeting with RJ and George and something else that day. Of course, somehow my schedule was all filled, but it almost made it felt like you kind of knew that day was a bad day for me.

So I couldn't come in. I still want to meet Frank. I haven't met Frank yet. He's a good guy. Seems like a great guy. Jamie, are you over this? So Dan and Adam thing right here?

No, I love the Dan and Adam stick. Yeah. You know why he loves it, Adam, right? Why? Because Jamie,

Oh, it's 10 57. We have an 11 AM show. I show up to stream yard and who's here adam oh hey what's going on adam who's not here oh that's right it's jamie oh it's the guy who always says dan you're gonna show up at 1205 to our 12 o'clock mock dan you're late for the second time ever but we're gonna say it's like the hundredth. And now here's Jamie at 1105 showing up. So, you know,

that's why he wants to deflect a little bit today. I understand. I wanted to give you a taste of your own medicine. Um, and let's, let's be clear. The third event that happened was I sent an email for the mock draft that we did last week.

And now I'm going through, I'm like, wow, I'm surprised Dan didn't reply. So I texted Dan and said, Dan also forgot to reply to the email. And Dan's like, what email? I can't imagine that I missed an email. What?

That's impossible. Oh, look, there's the email. That's pretty bad, Dan. That was one of those moments that you always want back where you're like, oh, what? Like when you ask a question, it can remind you about being in school. When you ask a question that you kind of already know the answer to, but you didn't know you already knew the answer to. But you did, and you ask it, and then within like a second, you're like, oh, no, no, I know the answer to that question. So you feel really dumb after that, and that's how I felt.

How's that man was in the mock draft? Because it showed me how not to draft. And he got great value with Kelsey at number two. All right, let's move on here. We have a few news to notice. Is Kelsey not a top three pick for you guys? He's number one for me. You know that. So we've got a few news and notes here. Then we'll get to our Do Not Draft

list. We have one email. It's a good time to send some emails, by the way. You'll probably have it read on the show. FantasyFootball at CBSi.com. That's the letter I. FantasyFootball at CBSi.com. Also, please leave us an Apple Podcast review, a five star Apple Podcast review. And if you leave us a nice comment there you can ask a question as well so jason lock and fora tweeted yesterday i think it was yesterday maybe two days ago more than one nfl general

manager came away from the senior bowl fairly convinced that justin fields will be dealt from week seven on justin fields was the number five quarterback in fantasy, number three per game. He averaged nearly 100 rushing yards per game. He was doing things that we've never seen before. I mean, Lamar Jackson, 1,300 for Lamar Jackson was right around there was his record. Justin Fields was going to blow that away if he had kept that pace up. But anyway, Jamie, your thoughts on potentially Justin Fields' trade as the Bears do have the first pick in the draft?

Well, he would have broken Lamar Jackson's record if he had stayed healthy and played in Week 18. So, I mean, I'm pretty convinced of that. I mean, look, I think his style for fantasy would probably still fit with any team, unless someone's just going to say, no, don't do that. But I think just given the opportunity to try to acquire Justin Fields, there should be some teams clearly looking to do so if the Bears are obviously going to move him. So you look at all the teams that we've been talking about, you know, that are looking at the veteran guys, they probably would love to get, you know, Justin Fields on his rookie deal

and hoping that they could, you know, make him into the franchise quarterback that he will probably become wherever he plays. So I think, you know, as we've kind of talked about, you know, Heath was the first one to bring it up. You like continuity, so you'd like to see him probably stay and, you know, develop in the place that he's at. But I think if he goes to a team, let's say Tampa, you know, where to get in the mix, let's say the Jets were to get in the mix. Let's say any of these teams that have, you know, a weapon or a couple of weapons, or you can see, you know, the ability to be successful in certain spots, he could probably still thrive there. So, um, you know, he may move up or down a spot in my rankings, depending on where he goes, but, you know, he'll hover around, you know, the fifth overall um, you know, he may move up or down a spot in my rankings, depending on where he goes, but you know, he'll, he'll hover around, you know, the fifth overall quarterback, you know,

probably won't fall farther than eight or nine, certainly in the top 10, um, no matter where he's playing. And just to clarify the numbers here, Lamar Jackson's record was a little over 1200, 1,206 rushing yards. He did that in 15 games in 2019, Justin Fields also played 15 games in 2022, and he had 1,143 rushing yards, so he would have needed 64 rushing yards in his last game of the year to break Lamar Jackson's record. Some more news items here. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are hiring

Seattle quarterback coach Dave Canales as their offensive coordinator. So not a household name by any means. And, you know, today we're talking do not draft list. And I have Mike Evans on mine. You guys both had Chris Godwin. And then I made... I would have had Evans on mine too, just for the record.

All right. So, I mean, do the Bucs feel like that team... Do the Bucs feel like a stay away team? Stay away from in fantasy? Dan? Yes. But again, so much of this is so undetermined for me until the end of free agency and the end of the draft but I think if we can get through free agency and they don't and they haven't added a good quarterback or someone who we can rely on then I'll continue to be a do not draft team because they're not going to get

that player at quarterback in this draft with where they're picking in my opinion. So yes, they're an avoid team. I don't like drafting teams with bad quarterbacks. So, and I feel like the other thing with that Bucks team is that offensive line has a few great pieces, but then has some holes and I'm not so sure where they're going to fix that either. They're not in a good salary cap situation. You feel the same way, Jamie? Is that why Chris Godwin made your list we're just not really feeling the bucks now uh it's I mean the three guys that I gave you you know with with him being one of them are it's a lot of is the uncertainty right now you know so I think if they end up you know with somewhere between a Derek Carr and and and an Aaron Rodgers quarterback you know then I'd feel a lot better about it.

But I think, you know, we saw Chris Godwin great in a very pass-heavy situation with Jameis Winston. We saw him great in a very pass-heavy situation as a slot receiver for – an outside receiver for Jameis Winston, as a slot receiver for Tom Brady. So I think he can thrive in, in almost every role that he, he plays in, but you're talking about a Bruce Arian system and then an Arian system that, you know, transitioned into a Tom Brady slash Byron left, which system. I don't love that set up right now with what the quarterback options are probably available to him as Dan alluded to, if they,

if they don't hit somebody hit on somebody in free agency. So, um, I think to be drafting him in the third round in PPR with the idea of 100 receptions again is probably asking a lot right now. Okay, next news item here. We'll move over to our Do Not Draft list in a moment. Rex Ryan could become the Denver defensive coordinator according to the NFL Network.

And Philadelphia quarterback coach Brian Johnson could get promoted to offensive coordinator, according to Adam Schefter. And that's that. Denver is going to be fun. Agreed. Rex Ryan, that's... I like Rex Ryan a lot as a defensive coordinator.

Yeah, why would you not be excited about that? When was the last time he was a coach? How long has it been? I think it was that Bill stint. It's a long time. He's really never had... I think if I... I got to look, double-check this,

but I'm pretty sure he's never had a defense below the top 15. Oh, it's a tremendous resume. And he would get Patrick Sertan, which is perfect for his system because he'll leave him on an island and he'll just... It's going to be blitz heavy it's going to be aggressive it's going to be awesome yeah it's just

a guy who's been out of football for a long time kind of interesting and a guy and a head coach who's out of football for a year but all right okay well we have a new podcast it's called with a big for mill guy when he left football didn't come back to have any success Yeah I mean I'm trying to think if there's a

Another example of this But I don't know how long Dick Vermeule was out of football I don't remember that But yeah he came back He coached the Rams Did great I don't know

Sure I just Would have thought you know Go with Russell Russell's the big issue for me there I I'm, I'm liking the coaching changes. I'm just Russell. I was watching some film breakdown today and Russell's missing guys in the scene that are wide open. It's just,

I just don't know if he has anything left. Yeah. I, I go back to what I said when, when Sean Payton took a job, I don't think Payton is taking that job without some idea of I can make Russ work. Yeah, that's fair. That's the first couple of years of this tenure. Whenever it gets flipped, it's going to get flipped. But I think you've got to assume two years of Russell Wilson. I don't think Sean Payton is necessarily saying,

okay, five years from now, we're going to be great. Right? Yeah, he's not looking at it. I don't think he's walking into a situation saying, I can't make this guy work to some degree. That's fair. Okay, now I'm going make this guy work to some degree. It's fair. Okay, now I'm going to tell you about the With the First Pick podcast. Ready for some NFL draft prep?

It is the season, all right? We got mock drafts, prospect profiles, a lot more. Former GM Rick Spielman is on the show with Ryan Wilson and other guests as well. Listen to the With the First Pick podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts. It is outstanding and is the best way to get ready for the NFL draft. Time for our Do Not Draft list. And we're going to go

in order that they were picked in Monday's mock draft. So the first player on someone's Do Not Draft list is Jonathan Taylor, who went eighth overall in this draft. And it is Dan Schneier

who is putting Jonathan Taylor taylor on his do not draft list and why are you doing that dan and so the good news at least for this podcast i don't have any of my wisconsin gear back here but uh it's all giants but i am a wisconsin badger graduate but the reason i'm putting taylor on this list has little to do with his skill set as a runner i still believe in that fully i think he was just injured this year playing through injury. And has everything to do with the situation here. I took a look at what went down with this Colts offensive line this season. And started to dig a little deeper.

Because this was an offensive line that before this season, we all knew it as one of the best in the NFL. And it was one of the big reasons why Taylor originally broke out. And as I looked into it, Quinton Nelson had his worst year as a pro. Maybe he was injured. I don't know. When I watched the tape against the giants late in the season, I know that team kind of had quit by that point with Jeff Saturday, but he looked nothing like himself and he was supposed to be the all pro best guard in the NFL.

Braden Smith didn't have a great year for what he was. And those are their two best players. They have a massive hole at right guard. Will Fries was one of the lowest graded right guards in the NFL. No real solution at left tackle, in my opinion. So you're going into this next off season with probably a meat middling offensive line is where we can say they're at right now. You're also looking at a situation where Taylor's role did not grow the way we hoped it might in the passing game, right?

So now you have a guy who's not really involved all that much in the passing game. He doesn't have that great of an offensive line quarterback. Well, I think they're going the draft route this time. I can't imagine that great of an offensive line quarterback. Well, I think they're going the draft route this time. I can't imagine they go back to the veteran quarterback. Well, I don't think that is a great, you know, harbinger of things to come for fantasy success for that offense. So I'm looking at what could be one of the worst offense in the NFL middling offensive line running back, not that involved in the passing game. And I just can't get behind that

regardless of how talented he is with a top 10 draft pick in fantasy. When I know I can get Stefan Diggs in a great offense after him, when I know I can get just taking a look real quick at this mock or at this mock, we did at the player selected after Jonathan Taylor, Tyreek Hill, Devante Adams, AJ Brown, CD lamb, Ken Walker for me. I mean, there are players even at his position that I'd rather have after him. So the talent's there. It's great. I understand why he's going that high. He's done it before, but we have to project moving forward too. And I don't think that he has the situation around him to be a guaranteed top 10 pick. Jamie. It's a strong argument. I think, you know, for me, it's the fact that he's never really had good quarterback play. You know, I don't know how much that factors into it, but he's never had, you know, the, the, the dynamic player at that position,

that's going to necessarily open things up for this offense. You know, we hope Matt Ryan would sort of be a little bit better solution, whether that wasn't the case or, you know, how much that was a factor of the offense. I do think the fact that those, those two offensive linemen are still there. I think that's enough to build around and hopefully the, the coaching

staff, you know, we see this a lot and Adam mentioned this yesterday, you know, the two Eagles guys who are free agents, uh, players follow coaches if they, if, if they get the right deals, you know, so maybe one of the two Eagles guys, I don't think Kelsey's going, but, um, you know, they may be able to, you know, poach from that offensive line and that fits the system. I'm going to buy into the system, you know, uh, Shane Steichen going to fits the system. I'm going to buy into the system. Shane Steichen's going to run the ball. I'm pretty confident in that, especially with a young quarterback. So I like that opportunity for him. And I do think that there's an opportunity.

He certainly showed that he could be a 35-catch guy. I don't know if he'll ever be a 50-plus-catch guy, but I think you're telling me 35 catches for Jonathan Taylor and the opportunity to be a 20 carry guy as long as he's healthy I think he's got a chance for 1500 total yards if not more he was a 2000 total yard guy when he was an MVP candidate the division stinks

you know it's basically Jacksonville and teams falling apart around them you know we'll see if Tennessee's run defense can still hold up I would say it's probably a good bet for next year but we just don't know so I just like the fact that he's going to be a workhorse. He's still in that age, you know, you know, sub 26, um, the resume of what you look for system, I think will benefit him.

If, if the quarterback offensive line play, which are obviously some, some ifs hold up, then I think he's still worth taking in the first round. Um, maybe not top five overall, but certainly still a first-round pick. And I think you can certainly argue from Kelsey and the receivers to take over him. There's probably easier debate for those guys than there is for Taylor. But I think when you start to put him up against the running backs, not knowing where Barkley's playing, still unproven to a certain degree

for Ken Walker and maybe Brees Hall if he's healthy, I would probably still take Taylor over those guys. One devil's advocate I would play to that is if I had to pick one team to have the Nathaniel Hackett year, which is coach who's a little bit overwhelmed, not as good as we thought he would be, it would be this team. Shane Steichen, I believe he's a young, bright offensive mind.

Everyone who's hired is. They do well in the interviews. But it's a lot different watching what he did this year versus what somebody like, for example, Ben Johnson did in Detroit or even Mike Kafka in New York. Every week, they had a different game plan. Every week, they were doing different things. The Eagles pretty much ran their system all year, and it was very reliant on the talent, in my opinion, from watching that offense go. i just have very i have actual concerns with shane steik and i'm not so sure that's going to work out if i had to pick one person to be the nathaniel hackett of next year to me he's the guy all right josh jacobs is also on someone's do not draft list he went 12th overall in monday's mock

draft and jamie says josh jacobs and this based on, this is all based on either where they went in this draft or kind of what we perceive their ADP is right now. Who's currently on the do not draft list based on draft value. Jamie is saying Josh Jacobs is that guy for him. I think he's an excellent running back. We've talked a lot about his abilities and what he's capable of doing. And I think he maximized that the season. I'm just concerned about anytime you get that in a contract year is it replicable and so I think if you just take his career as a whole he's an

excellent fantasy option he's shown the ability that when featured in the passing game to whatever degree only being thrown to on first and second down you know relying on injuries when Waller and Renfro missed time, when Waller missed time this past year, when Kenny Drake missed time, you know, going back to the last couple of seasons, he's excelled in those roles. So I think if he switches teams, he's still going to be a very good fantasy option.

If he stays as a Raider, he's still going to be a very good fantasy option. Is he going to lead the NFL in rushing again? It's probably stretch. You know, is he going to be, you know, a complete featured guy to the level that we saw this past season and play through any injuries when injuries have been a problem for him the last couple of years i'm concerned about that so i think he's a good second round pick toward the back end of it i think he's definitely a good third round pick depending on where he's going

to go i'm not taking josh jacob in the first round you But you said late round two, you take them. Yes. And I think, you know, stays in, in, in, in Las Vegas in the right quarterback, I could buy into middle of round two, but you know, that's where, you know, going back to what Dan was saying about the receivers, you know, in PPR, I'm taking Amara St. Brown over him. I'm taking AJ Brown over him, you know? And for me at this point, you know, I probably would lean toward a healthy breeze hall and, and Ken Walker over him too.

You know, so, um, he's getting to that point. Would you take CD lamb over him? Oh yeah. Would you take CD lamb over him? Yeah.

Oh, that lambs at lambs. Yeah. I had to answer that one for Jamie. That's lambs ahead of AJ Brown for you. Right. And yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Um, he went second round two in this draft. Yeah. That's why if the quarterback situation, Las Vegas is good. I would take CD lamb over to Lamb over Devontae Adams. So I think Josh Jacobs is great,

but I just don't buy into him being a... I don't buy into him repeating what he did last year, even though he was good in Josh McDaniel's offense. But I also don't buy into him producing at that same level. So I would not invest a first round pick. Well, let's go a little bit later now. Six more picks into the draft we did on Monday. Travis Etienne was selected.

And if you heard Dan, it was like a Saquon Barkley to the Jaguars thing last week or whatever. Dan does not like Travis Etienne. Travis Etienne is on Dan's Do Not Draft list. If I got Travis Etienne with the sixth pick of round two, I would do

well, I can't do a cartwheel. I would do a somersault. I think I could do that. But sixth pick of round two for Etienne, who's been really good. Dan doesn't like him. Dan's weird. So why is he on your do not draft list? Well, I'll let you at some point get a devil's advocate in.

That's a little bit more nuanced than Dan doesn't like him. Dan's weird. But we'll start with my case against travis etn so travis etn according to adam has been really good quote unquote he has been okay according to that yeah i mean fantasy wise he did have a good year where there was nothing around him and they got rid of james robinson for sure but we're projecting forward nothing we're doing nothing around you mean nothing at running back around at running back yeah correct no mean nothing at running back around? At running back around, correct. No competition at running back.

They traded, why am I blanking on his name, Robinson. James Robinson. James Robinson. And then from there, they didn't really have anybody. They tried like James Michael Hastie. They tried a few other players who didn't work out. But as far as ETN, I've watched a lot of Jacksville in this year. It's one of the teams I've watched most tape on besides the Giants. It is the team I watch the most tape on.

And there are just too many examples when you watch Travis Etienne of him not processing the right hole and then picking the wrong hole and him taking what should have been a 10, 12 yard gain and turning it into two or three by bouncing it outside. This was an issue for him at Clemson. It was a reason why a lot of us didn't have a first round grade on him. Didn't have him as a top one running back in that class. And I think watching that and watching Doug Peterson's tenure, both dating back to his time with the Eagles and just looking at how the Jags run this offense and their fervor for wanting to have some kind of consistent running game that can produce yards and move,

get vertical and take what's there so they can set up deep play action shots. It, he doesn't profile as the type of back that to me fits what Peterson wants to do. We are now looking at what Daniel Jeremiah, who I think is the best draft analyst described as the deepest running class he can remember in a long time. And I completely agree with him from my early research into this class, this running class, running back class, we were going to have so many running backs. We love in August, depending on where they go. I can't wait to see

it. There are guys select that are going to be selected in rounds two, three, and four that can be starters that are better than the level where Damian Pierce was at last year. And he was a fourth round pick as well. Jags are a team I think will go that route. I don't know who they'll draft, but I'll be drafting that running back in my fantasy leagues. Another thing on ETN I don't like, he wasn't really as evolved as the passing game as we all thought he would be, right? Like that never got going this year at any point. And that was supposed to be a big part of his game so now you have a running back who i think doesn't process well isn't a fit for what they want to do in my opinion isn't that evolved in the passing game and i think will be usurped by whoever they draft and i think they will draft

a player i don't see it right now as a top 18 pick i probably wouldn't even take him at any point in round two until jacksonville actually goes out and shows me that they don't like Travis CTN, I'm just going to ignore the negatives and focus on the positives. For a player who can't process it, who makes so many mistakes, he averaged 5.1 yards per carry on 220 carries. He had eight carries that were longer than 20 yards or 20 yards or longer, I should say. He is one of the most explosive running backs in football, I think. That is one thing he did very well in Clemson. And he wasn't involved in the passing game after they traded James Robinson.

When he wasn't running the ball as much, he was very involved in the passing game. So I think there's a chance that even if he does lose carries, he will get more targets. I just think that you're judging him very harshly based on his first year in the league. Maybe if you're saying it's carrying over from his times at Clemson, okay, maybe that's going to be a problem. But I don't know. You have the same critique of DeAndre Swift.

I have to take your word for it because I'm not watching Jaguars film. I don't want to put group Swift with ETN. I just want to make that clear because I think Swift is a better run in ETN. Okay, but they're both really productive when they step on the field. I want to attach myself to the Jaguars offense as much as I can. That's fair. As long as he could be in a situation where they're one of the most high-scoring, they could be one of the best offenses in football next year if Calvin Ridley comes back.

If he's getting most of the rushing touchdowns, then that's an awesome situation for him. So with all the negatives that you mentioned, the guy was still a very productive running back. I know he can be better than this in the passing game. I am not relegating him to three targets per game. I think that could easily change. Also, on a per target basis, he's going to be one of the best running backs, I think. So I'm still very excited about Travis Etienne and could obviously readjust if they invest significantly at the running back position. But as of now, I'm all about him 18th, 19th overall.

Is that more nuanced than Dan's weird? Yes. Yeah, that is much better. And just remember one final thing with Etienne, though. This is not the current regime that's in right now did not draft or bring in Travis Etienne. That's true. Yep. All right. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we will talk about some.

They also are the ones that traded away his backfield. True. Mate. That was great. That was a great value for them, right? No, it was. It was a smart move, but it's not like they had an in-house replacement to be a complimentary option to.

They didn't give that. What do they get? Like a sixth round pick or something? No, I think it was supposed to. The Jets kind of gamed it. If he had played more for the Jets, it was going to be a fourth round pick. It was competentory, but I think it ends up being just a sixth round pick. Yeah, sixth round pick.

Okay, we're going to take a break. We got some more players to talk about. DeAndre Hopkins. Dave picked him on Monday with the 10th pick of round three. One of us says, no, too early. Do not draft DeAndre Hopkins there. We'll be right back on Fantasy Football today. What does possible sound like for your business?

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to talk about here. We'll see if we can get through them all. We'll try. Jamie, you say DeAndre Hopkins, if he's going with the 10th pick of round three, would be on your do not draft list. Dave was very excited about that pick. Hopkins was obviously brilliant when he played.

So why are you putting Hopkins on this early do not draft list at late round three? Because of where he may or may not be playing. I mean, you know, we we've seen him thrive with different quarterbacks, you know, the situation,

Houston pre and post to Sean Watson. We, we see him in Arizona and what he was able to do with Kyler Murray. He is also now getting up in age. He is also now coming off back-to-back seasons, whether it was because the Cardinals stunk last year, but you know, two years in a row where he's not able to finish the season. And we're hoping he's going to go to a situation where there's going to be

in a pass heavy offense. What if he goes to Baltimore and he's not going to be in that style of, of system that's going to enhance his play? What if he goes to a crowd of receiving core? What if he goes to a team that's just looking to, you know, brighten a young quarterback's situation and it's a frustrating experience? So this is more of a TBD situation for me as opposed to I'm necessarily completely out on him.

But I want to see where he ends up first before I'm like all in on DeAndre Hopkins for the season. So just a little bit concerned about his potential destination. I hope he goes to a spot that is going to help him flourish. And the two places that he's been have been great. But the third stop may not be great. So if he doesn't end up in an ideal spot, then round three is definitely not for me for DeAndre Hopkins.

And Hopkins will be 31 years old in June. So that is a pretty significant age. I think we were a little surprised by how productive he was this year. He averaged almost 80 yards per game. And that was with a really slow ending to the season. The last game DeAndre Hopkins played, Trace McSorley was the quarterback

and Hopkins had one catch for four yards on 10 targets. Crazy. When he was with Kyler Murray, obviously he was even better. Alright, so let me tell you the wide receivers who went after Hopkins and tell me if you take them ahead of him. Chris Godwin. In kind of the same situation.

For me. Marquise Brown. No. No. Chris Olave. Yes. DK Metcalf. No, no. Chris Olave. Yes. DK Metcalf. I don't know who's going to play quarterback there. Yes. For Metcalf,

for sure. For me. Debo Samuel. Yes. TBD. All right. All right. Next up, we have Chris Godwin,

who was 312 in this. Hopkins was picked 10 of round three. Godwin was pick 12. And Jamie, this is our guy. I mean, everybody was going to put Chris Godwin on their list. Jamie claimed him. But he's on your do not draft list. And we have seen him be very productive with multiple quarterbacks,

but it's always been a productive passing game for the Bucs. So Godwin's not old. He's in his prime. He's talented, you know, had a really good career. Why are we all shying away from him if it means, you know, the 36th pick in the draft?

It's not super early for a guy who's finished as high as wide receiver two in his career. Jamie, go ahead. Well, I mean, we talked about this already. So I think, you know, again, until we see who the quarterback is there, it's hard to say he's going to be in this system with this quarterback because that's been his benefit. You know, Bruce Arians to Tom Brady, Byron Lefkowitz, you know, that whole, you know, crew, whether it was Jameis or Brady. But, you know, the system has kind of been the same. Very pass heavy, very, you know, relying on him, know soaking up targets and and and being a dominant

force and i think you know it's credit to him like you said his age is his ability to do it with different quarterbacks his ability to come back as quickly as he did and be as productive as he did from the acl terror is fantastic so you know you're removed from that he should physically be as good as he can be still in his prime like you said but if it's uh god forbid kyle trask or or something close to that um it's hard to it's hard to say round three is a good spot for dan uh two let me talk about two players here amonra saint brown was wide receiver seven this year okay amari cooper was wide receiver 10 let me see where they were on per game basis here uh saint. Brown was wide receiver 11, but he was actually better than that because he had some Azerstat stuff there.

What does that mean? Well, he had some games where he left early with an injury. He had one game where he was a total decoy. When he was healthy, when he was truly himself, Amari St. Brown was better than wide receiver 11. And Amari Cooper was only wide receiver 19. Chris Godwin, by the way, was wide receiver 17 per game, tied with Tyler Lockett.

But could he be Amonra St. Brown? No. Beat Amonra St. Brown? Could he be that player? Oh, no. No chance. Even two years ago, even Amonra St. Brown,

the last six or seven games of his rookie season, it wasn't even golf every game. Right where he exploded. Yeah. My answer would be most likely no to that. A big reason for the Amon Ross St. Brown breakout in his rookie season wasn't really golf related. It was Ben Johnson related, their offensive coordinator who is probably the

brightest young mind in the NFL and that system is designed to get him those easy looks and we don't know if Godwin's going to be, you know, if the Bucs are going to bring in a system that's designed early to get Godwin looks around the line of scrimmage, make it easy for him, feature him in the passing game.

It's basically what Jamie said. We can't really predict the target volume. And if I was going to guess right now, the volume won't be there for him. I'm feeling four wins right now for the Bucs. Yeah, that's... That is so bad, but six? Well...

But someone has to win that division, though, right? There's going to be gross wins between that division. The Bucs could beat any of those three other teams, right? I mean, maybe. If they get Derek Carr, though, Adam, you'll be in love with the Bucs. Right, that's true. Derek Carr goes to any team

that's a Super Bowl contender for any team. They'd probably be around 500 with Derek Carr. So you went from four wins to not eight or nine. They were not good last year. I don't know. Todd Bowles, you got to convince me. Somebody convince me that he's not a bad coach. He's a terrible coach.

I don't know if he's a terrible coach. I can't sit here and say that. I know he has a terrible resume. He's a terrible coach. I don't know if he's a terrible coach. I can't sit here and say that. I know he has a terrible resume. That's all I know. And, you know... If he's not a terrible coach, then Byron Lefkowitz is a terrible offensive coordinator. One of those two things is true.

Yeah, they just... I don't know. Their window is closed. Okay, next up, in case you haven't noticed, we've talked about five players, and none of them have been on my Do Not Draft list. I'm going in order of how they were picked. The next four belong to me.

This starts with the ninth pick of round four. I saved the best for last. Look at me. And goes to the fourth pick of round six. So Michael Pittman, Brandon Ayuk, Isaiah Pacheco, and Mike Evans are on my early Do Not Draft list. Pittman was the ninth pick of round four. Ayuk, Isaiah Pacheco, and Mike Evans are on my early do not draft list. Pittman was the ninth pick of round four. Ayuk went around later. Isaiah Pacheco, second pick of round six,

and then two picks later, Mike Evans. I'm going to go through all four of them real quick. Here we go. I think Michael Pittman is a good player. Maybe he could be very good. I don't think he's an alpha. I don't think he's a stud or anything like that. I think he's just been a victim of terrible quarterback play.

It might actually get worse this year. I do believe you're going to see a rookie quarterback there based on what Jim Irsay said. So I think that there's going to be a lot of growing pains. I also don't think Pittman is the kind of player that can survive a lot of target competition. So if they bring in anyone else to take away some targets from him, I think that's going to be bad for Pittman. I don't see a ton of upside with Pittman, so I will not be drafting him in the fourth round. Brandon Ayuk, in his last four games, I'm not even going to count the conference championship game when they barely threw the ball, but in his last four games, he had five or fewer targets. The last four games, he played with Debo Samuel, Christian McCaffrey, and George Kittle. I think what we saw from Ayuk last year

was very good. He was a top 20 wide receiver. It's probably his ceiling, in my opinion. So I don't see a ton of upside for Iuke. And I see a lot of downside if Trey Lance is the quarterback, for example. But McCaffrey, Kittle, Debo, and Iuke are all healthy. Let's say there are 10 of those games next year. I don't think you're going to be able to rely on Brandon Iuke. Pacheco is probably the most controversial one here i'll skip him come back to him evans is the third wide receiver on my list that i'm avoiding it's the obvious reasons but he's even older i actually think he would have been a good bounce back candidate if brady had come back because he did a lot of really good things he drew a lot of penalties he lost chris has laid

this out nicely he lost a ton of production on past interference calls. But, you know, I think he's kind of a deep threat at this point. He had a great rapport with Brady in the end zone. New quarterback. I just, yeah, I'm not feeling Mike Evans. I think a lot of people probably will feel that way. Round six is actually pretty interesting, though. Round seven, for sure, I'd be in on him. All right, let's talk about Pacheco.

It's just, how many times are we going to get fooled by the Chiefs running back who finishes the season strong? It happened with Damian Williams in 2018. What happened in 2019? He was sharing with Le'Veon Bell for the first two games of the season, and then he got hurt. And then he finished 2019 strong, by the way. He skipped the 2020 season due to COVID.

Remember, his mother was sick. Clyde Edwards-Elair had his moments and just never took off. We have not had in the last four seasons, we have not had a Chiefs running back finish in the top 20 per game. So it's a bad offense for running backs. Pacheco will probably have fewer than 20, maybe 20 to 25 catches, maybe. I don't see him scoring a lot of touchdowns. We haven't had a running back score

more than seven rushing touchdowns for the Chiefs in the last five years. That's in the Holmes era. So now to be fair, Kareem Hunt scored seven in 11 games in 2017. But since then, or that 2018, sorry, whatever. Since then, it's just not a, it's not a good offense for running backs.

That's all it is. And yes, he did finish strong, but this is Patrick Mahomes' offense. They get really goofy in the red zone. They don't just line it up and give it to the running back. I don't want to be fooled by Pacheco again. He's a trap back, doesn't catch the ball, won't score a lot of touchdowns. He'll be very good on a per carry basis. He'll be overdrafted, and he'll split with Clyde.

All right, guys, those are my four. Mike Evans, or sorry, in order, Michael Pittman, Brandon Ayuk, Isaiah Pacheco, Mike Evans. I have pushback on a couple, but Jamie, do you want to jump in first? No, go ahead. Okay. I'll give my pushback on the first of two players. The first will be Isaiah Pacheco. My thoughts on Pacheco would be,

is Pacheco the most talented back the Chiefs have had in the Mahomes era besides Kareem Hunt, who actually, like you said, was productive in the Mahomes era? And I think the answer would be yes. Clyde Edwards-Lair was supposed to be. He was a first-round pick, but his speed never translated to the NFL, and I think it's obvious when you watch him. But even if you look at the early CEH days, the Chiefs made a concerted effort to get him the football. And it's funny because before the Mahomes era, I shouldn't even say before, before Hunt left the team, Andy Reed and Scott Barrett did some great stats on this. Um, Andrew was actually the biggest lean on your workhorse guy in the NFL. And then he kind of either maybe switched or maybe it was just, he didn't feel

like he had the back to kind of lean on one player. He tried it with Clyde Edwards, Blair Edwards, Blair was inefficient. I think Pacheco is much more talented player than Edwards. His burst is obvious. He's not really, doesn't have much wiggle to his game, but I'm not so sure that matters in an offense that's blocking pretty well and has a really good offensive line. So Pacheco for me is the most talented back. And one final thing I like about him is they kind of told us early that they liked him. Remember in training camp, he was already getting first team reps really early and they were designing passes for him that never kind of translated to the, to the actual season. The same thing was true of Clyde Edwards layer. There was always this talk of, Oh, look, he's running a wheel route in training camp. They're going to get him involved

in the passing game. So I'm with you, Adam. I don't really think the passing game takes too much of a jump, but I think that run game could go through Pacheco for sure this season. And so I'm in there. Um, it already did. It already did in the second half of the season. And when, and he was not even a top 20 running back in that stretch from week 10 through week 18. And he had 16, 15, 22, 14, 13, 15, 14, 9, and 8 carries. How many scores did he have in that range? He had four touchdowns.

I think those were nine games. And he scored, you know, he had double-digit fantasy points in seven or six, I think six or... No, I think seven of the nine games. But he never scored more than 16.2. He just never had huge games because he barely caught the ball. But we're talking about... So I agree with that.

Those are all great stats, by the way, Adam. And those are all a great case for why you shouldn't be taking Isaiah Pacheco if he was going in like round three or four and you're hoping for a breakout. We're talking about way deeper in this draft. We're talking about... What did he go? Round seven? Six. Round six. I feel like that's pretty good production for a breakout. We're talking about way deeper in this draft. We're talking about, what did he go, round seven? Round six.

Round six. I feel like that's pretty good production for a round six back right there. Yeah, but it wasn't a top 20 running back in PPR. Okay. It looks good on paper, but the lack of catches really hurt him. Okay.

So it was, yeah. It was a good counter. No, look, I like Pacheco, and I do think he's better than Clyde. Clyde is going to be a bust. I mean, it just seems that way. But I just think that this offense has been pretty bad for running backs. So that's it.

I think part of it, though, is they really just haven't had a guy. Like Dan sort of alluded to what they tried to do with Clyde in the early part of his tenure. It's like, you know, I'm sure part of it is trying to feel it out. You know, do we have something here? You know, is this somebody that can be a workhorse for us? You know, I think we got too excited about Clyde because, oh, pass-catching guy, 55% at LSU.

He's coming to this offense. Finally a first-round pick in the Andy Reid tenure, you know, ever. You know, and I know it's kind of a minimal situation. You pointed this out, Adam, as we were proving the Superbowl, the four catches that he had Pacheco had in, in the AFC championship game. You know, none of them were third down receptions. They were all early in, in first and second down situations. Um, that might not be replicable, but it's obviously something that he can grow into

as he has an, you know, another off season. And I'll reference this again you know rookie offseasons versus second year offseasons are tremendous in just terms of growth for what these guys do on the field and hopefully that's what translates you know clearly it's going to be who's there because we know clyde will still be there but who's going to be the third guy they're bringing back mckinnon as a free agent are they going to add somebody similar to that as a pass catcher because if it's those two guys and we we know Clyde has a hard time staying healthy, maybe his role in the passing game does grow.

He had zero targets in the Super Bowl. I'm not disagreeing with you. Maybe that's just the outlier. I think so. It is something that, look, they figured out the Eagles defense, you know, pretty quickly, especially in the second half, you know, and they really didn't have the ball in the first half. So I just think that it's also, you know, not to go too far down the Super Bowl rabbit hole, but when you're only rushing with four guys, you don't really need to throw to your backs as much because you're not, you know, if you're,

if you got a block, you're, you're, you're pretty good to look downfield for a guy like him. Um, but I do think that, you know, 25 catches is probably realistic,

but if he's North of that with what he can do as a runner, then it could be a pretty good bargain. So I, I think round five, as we've sort of alluded to, to me as a good value. Anybody pushing back on Pittman, Iuke or Evans?

Yeah, I'll push a little bit back on Iuke. Iuke is a player who I love. I think he's one of the best kept secrets in the NFL at the wide receiver position. That doesn't mean he's going to be great for fantasy. Adam outlined an amazing case as to why he might not be great for fantasy, right? There doesn't appear to be much of a ceiling

for him based on how much talent is around him. But one thing I would give pushback on was Adam saying that Trey Lance would be bad for Brandon Ayuk. I think it would be the complete opposite. If you think back to last August, everything out of training camp was Lance is relying on Ayuk. Lance keeps going to Ayuk.

Or should we worry about Debo Samuel? Lance keeps looking at Ayuk. So to me, and Lance has the arm talent to stretch the field in ways that I can, that all these other receivers can't the deep crossers over the middle, which is Iuke's best route so far, the deep posts, the go routes, things of that nature. So to me, Trey Lance could actually be great for Iuke's value versus the opposite of that, which Adam was kind of saying. So I, and we'll see what happens with Purdy versus Lance.

I still don't really know what's going on there, uh, there based on what George Kittle has said and things of that nature. But I still feel like Lance will get the best shot, will get the first shot to take that job. So I think that could be good for Ayuk. I agree with that also. And I do think that his numbers were much better losses versus wins. When you look at what Ayuk is, by nature, they're probably throwing the ball more.

And so if they do take some semblance of a step back versus wins. When you look at what Ayuk is, you know, by nature, they're probably throwing the ball more. Yeah. And so if they do take some semblance of a step back from just a win-loss standpoint in more competitive games, now that could be because Lance is struggling. It could be because Purdy's not healthy and they're forcing him in there. Who knows?

Whatever. No, D'Amico Ryans is going to hurt them. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, it hurt them to not have Robert Sala. Good call. Well, D'Amico Ryans is an amazing defensive coordinator who was the best. Yeah, they might have the. Good call. Well, D'Amico Ryan's an amazing defensive coordinator

who was the best. They might have the next best one. Oh, yeah. They're just going to keep having the next best defensive coordinator every year. They have great players. Give their, you know, John Lynch and front office staff, their scouting staff, you know, some credit for that. But look, I mean, they have the best defensive player in the league, you know,

in Nick Bosa. So I don't want to say they're going from a four loss team to a 10 loss team. That's not realistic. But, you know, they have the best defensive player in the league, you know, in Nick Bosa. So I don't want to say they're going from a four loss team to a to a 10 loss team. That's not realistic. But, you know, one or two more losses or more competitive games. Listen, if it's because Trey Lance is struggling like you just suggested, that's not going to be good for you. Probably not in the grand scheme of things. But I think as Dan sort of laid it out. If it's just more back and forth games, you know, where they're not, you know, just, okay, we can just run, run and run some more,

then maybe that just leads to a couple more targets. And he had some games where, you know, even where he wasn't getting heavily targeted, they were just better in losses. You know, he just was getting more of those opportunities. But I do think what Dan said is on the ball there. A lot of people look at IU and say, he's just kind of buried in this, in this offense because of these guys and the situation. I do think if there is somebody who can unlock that, it is a quarterback that will challenge down the field. Jimmy Grapple wasn't that guy. Rock party doesn't look to be that guy.

He's clearly benefited from a lot of the injuries. So when guys have missed time, he's certainly benefited from it. But I think that, you know, entering, um, you know, year three, it's going to be a chance for him to sort of shine a little bit. And one more thing on that. What do we know about quarterbacks who have a lot of experience versus those who don't? And Trey Lance hasn't played a lot of football that everyone knows the stat, but he hasn't played a lot of football in a long time due to, you know, COVID injuries, everything of that nature. Well, Brock Purdy in that Iowa state offense, and then a translator right over the 49ers is an experienced quarterback

who spread the football around and got around to a lot of weapons. Sometimes with the younger quarterbacks with less experience, they rely on one target, and they lean really heavily on that one target. You better hope it's him. You better hope it's him. You better hope it's him, and don't forget, Christian McCaffrey wasn't on the team in training camp last year.

I know. There are so many mouths to feed on a team that if Trey Lance is the quarterback, I don't think they're throwing more than 25 or 26 times per game. It is really hard to have a high ceiling if you're on a team with Debo Samuel, George Kittle, Christian McCaffrey, and you're throwing 26 times per game. Because they're usually probably around like 31.

Can I ask you about that, though, Adam? Because I know you've said this a lot in the past. But why would they have drafted Trey Lance if they don't think he can be a passer? But they just think they're going to have this run-first offense, right? No, because he's going to scramble. He's not going to be a drop-back passer. He's going to run more.

Okay, he's running more. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's all. What round did he go here? Six? 5.8, eighth pick of round five. Yeah, round five is not ideal for him. But I think round six or later,

when you're talking about three receiver leagues where analyst drafts, they get pushed up a little bit more. That's not a bad... I don't know if you counted it out, but what receiver number is he? I didn't really like any of the receivers that went after him, to be honest.

So this is Brandon Ayuk we're talking about. He went just after Christian Watson and Jerry Judy. And then after that, Tyler Lockett, who, you know, I do like him better, but he's 30 or 31 next year. Mike Evans, Drake London, Mike Williams. I probably would have taken Mike. I would have taken Mike Williams ahead of Brandon Ayuk. Christian Kirk, I would have taken over Brandon Ayuk.

But then after that, who took Ayuk? Jacob. And then after that, you know Ayuk? Jacob. Yeah. And then after that, you know, you got Gabe Davis, George Pickens, Deontay Johnson,

right? I mean, it's not... I mean, it's the right range for him. Yeah. Yeah. Look,

I could have said the same thing for Kittle. It's just, it's just a philosophy of, it's hard. How many times have we just seen it where these guys aren't that good unless someone's hurt?

And then Debo's somewhat of an exception because he'll run the ball four or five times a game. But he might not with McAfee there. He did at the end of the year. So that's just what I'm basing that on. But I, and I'm,

I'm still going to reserve judgment on, on Pittman too. You know, I think when you look at who the quarterback is, that will clearly be a big determining factor, you know? So if it's somebody that comes in that seemingly ready to play, and I think if they're going to get, you know, a Bryce Young or a CJ Stroud, I feel like that guy's going to be ready to play. Um, I'm

going to still like Pittman unless they add somebody. And I don't know if that's the route they're going to go. I mean, you know, they, they drafted Alec Pierce last season, you know, the free agent market isn't exactly the most robust, you know, so if they bring in somebody via trade or, you know, it's a Jacoby Myers type of guy, then, then obviously there's reason to, you know, run away from Pittman. But I think just based on how his target opportunities should be, yes, he's not the ideal alpha. I agree with you on that, but I still think if he is the alpha in this offense, I don't think there's anybody overtaking him. I don't think Jelani Woods is going to automatically take that step. I don't think that out Pierce is going to take that step.

I think that he's still going to be, you know, 130 target plus guy. And that should lead to some pretty good production. Cause we saw last year when he was featured with better than non Matt Ryan quarterbacks, you know, when Matt Ryan was there,

he was, he was still productive. It wasn't the ideal production that I was hoping for, but it was still productive. His first two games, weeks one and three, were very good. After that, Michael Pittman really didn't do anything. After week three, he scored more than 13.5 fantasy points in only four more games out of...

PPR? Out of 14 games. Yeah. Wow. That's tough. After the first two games of the year, he had more than 61 yards in only of 14 games. Yeah. Wow. That's tough. After the first two games of the year, he had more than 61 yards and only two more games. Michael Pittman had more than 61 yards four times in 16

games. That's really bad. But he was playing a stupid... Yeah, he was playing a dumb role. His ADOT was in the sixes. He was basically just a short area. That's what their offense was. It was just really short passes. It was terrible.

All right. I'll do one more here, Dan. You want to do George Pickens or Tyler Algier? Let's do George Pickens. He was the 10th pick of round six. George Pickens went just before Gabe Davis and Deontay Johnson. And why is George Pickens on your do not draft list? George Pickens is a player who will never go too much lower than this because he makes spectacular catches.

Everyone's looking to get the next breakout. And talent-wise, I think it is all there for Pickens. But the situation to me couldn't possibly get worse. This was an offense I completely avoided across the board this past year, and I won on that. The only reason to believe that that would not work again would be if Kenny Pickett takes a step forward. Everything I've seen from Kenny Pickett does not impress me as a thrower of the football. And they brought back Matt Canada as their offensive coordinator, which I think is a horrific decision. I don't personally believe in the continuity argument.

This was the argument made two years ago for the Giants bringing back Jason Garrett. Oh, Daniel Jones has had three new coordinators every year. You got to give him a chance to get the same guy. That's not right. They got rid of him. They brought in Brian Dable and Mike Kafka, and he had his best season ever. Continuity at the coordinator thing at the coordinator position is the most overrated thing in sports. I believe in continuity and rapport with the quarterback and a receiver, but don't just

bring back a coach so that quarterback can be in the same system. Get the right coach in. I think Canada is one of the worst play callers in the nfl to go along with a quarterback i have no confidence in passing football and on top of all of that dionte johnson was re-signed last offseason and there's so much dead cap that he's stuck on that roster so now you might not even get an incredible amount of target volume there and the targets are going to be bad targets so i just don't see it at all with pickens i would like to go to something else instead of responding to that.

Okay. I want to go back to Michael Pittman. We have a comment in our chat from Ethan. He said, Pittman's had Carson Wentz and Matt Ryan the last few years. If the Colts draft Stroud or Young, I think he will benefit greatly.

And I want to get your overall thoughts on that because I actually don't think that in their rookie years, Stroud or Young would necessarily be better than Wentz or Ryan. As bad as they were, that's sort of a philosophy of mine. I never trust rookie quarterbacks. I just don't. We went through this with Pittsburgh.

Oh, he can't be any worse than Ben Roethlisberger. Well, actually, you see the benefits of having a veteran quarterback just kind of knowing what to do. And it might not be obvious until that guy's gone. How much worse was Sam Ellinger? And how about Trevor Lawrence? Even Trevor Lawrence didn't get a passing game going at all. And he has generational talent at that position. We can blame Urban Meyer maybe, but you're right.

You're absolutely right. So I don't think the rookie quarterback would do that much for Michael Pittman personally. And I wanted to, what do you guys think if it's Stroud or young or even Levis, if they fall in love with him? Again, I think it comes down to value for Michael Pittman, you know, so the, the overhyping and obviously I was as guilty of that as anybody of,

of Pittman last year was because he was going to get this target volume from a veteran quarterback, and everything coming out of Indianapolis was just how glowing the rapport was between Matt Ryan and Michael Pittman. Now, granted, who else was he going to throw to at that point? With such a young and inexperienced receiving core, we didn't know Paris Campbell was going to stay healthy, and he played well at times last season. But I do think that

if you're talking about he went in the fifth round of this draft. Pittman, late fourth. Late fourth. Late fourth, early fifth. Again, analyst league, three receivers.

Receivers get pushed up. I think round five is not a bad opportunity to take a guy who if that's your third receiver, if you draft the right way, still be really good. Yeah, no, I agree. Look, and he could catch a lot of passes and just kind of ppr his way to good production but i'm a general question is are stroud or young or levis going

to be upgrades in any significant way over what he's had the last two years see i would say yes just because the guy that you referenced in, in Roethlisberger, and, you know, we've seen this with, you know, older experienced, successful quarterbacks and not that Matt Ryan wasn't successful, but he was changing systems and really never got to, you know, getting a flow behind a terrible offensive line. And then the coaching change happened and then he was starting and he wasn't starting and back and forth and Wentz was there for a year, you know, so I, and Pittman was also, you know, still in year two with with Wentz. So I think, you know, now he's a more established player.

I do think that if it's the right fit coach quarterback and, and it, it, it's not going to happen probably early, but it probably could happen as the year goes on that he could still be good and would benefit from the change in quarterback. Roethlisberger was winning with his ability to understand defenses and use his mind. And I think those things sort of mattered for a guy like Deontay Johnson

versus a Kenny Pickett coming in. And also, let's not forget, Mitch Trubisky also was part of that as well. Yeah. All right. I got an email to read at fantasyfootballat cbsi.com. I almost forgot, though, Dan had a horrible dream the other night. A nightmare, I'd say. I don't know why

I dreamt this, but I dreamt that the Giants released Wandale Robinson. They just got him. They would never get rid of a younger senior. Why would they do that? I know. It must have been after watching Tony in the Super Bowl. Get a little pot shot in here.

I'm fine. I'm anti-Tony. I'm staying by that. What did he play? One play in the Super Bowl. We play six offenses. Yeah, I know. It's just so funny.

Yeah, he was terrible in the Super Bowl. Just don't worry. Flush that anti-Tony stuff. Don't worry. The comp and story third round pick the Giants got back, which is going to be like the last pick in round three, will definitely be better than Tony.

All right. So here's our email from Richard in California, in La Crescenta, California. Getting ready for a dynasty draft, is Deshaun Watson a QB1 in a 14-team league? And does he have top five quarterback potential in 2023 in a four point per passing touchdown league great question uh yes to the first part no to the second part i don't think

he's got top five upside in this offense um i do think that despite the way that they tried to feature him at the end of last season i think that was more about getting him going and maybe getting away from some of the stuff that they do running the ball. I still think it's a run first offense for Kevin Stefanski while Nick Chubb is still Nick Chubb. So four points for passing touchdowns. I don't think he's going to run to the level of some guys that have top five upside, but number one quarterback in a 14 team league. Absolutely. I'm going to go the opposite route. I'm going to go yes and yes.

Just to put my tinfoil hat on for a second and it adds up a little bit everything i've seen now the tinfoil hat is that there is some discussion that the general manager in cleveland has given some kind of ultimatum or is given a you know a little hard push toward kevin scavanzi that we want to pass first offense and we believe the best way to win football is by passing the ball a lot and i think everything they've done from a general manager standpoint, from a roster manager standpoint, kind of leads to this. Their defense has not a single linebacker who can play the run. They don't have interior defensive line depth.

They set that up to defend the pass every play. We saw that this year, Cleveland was incredibly bad against the run. And then we saw this year more pass first offense at times than we probably expected. I think moving forward that will, they will continue to move in that direction. Even with Stefanski as the head coach, if he does remain the head coach, which I'm not sure will be that case for that long.

So I actually think there will be upside. They're going to throw the ball a lot. And Deshaun Watson has that talent. And even just look at the move they made to get Watson, right? Atlanta was closing in on getting Watson. Then Cleveland said, all right,

all right, all right. We'll give you the most guaranteed contract ever. We'll give you an insane quarterback contract that resets the market and probably ruins the future for every other contract. Any other team wants to sign. And they did it. So I, I, I like Watson a lot for this year. It feels gross to say it, but he'll be a player that unfortunately I'll be targeting a lot of. Yeah. And so here's where he finished per game with Houston, four seasons with Houston.

As a rookie, he made only six starts. He played seven games. He was the number one quarterback per game. After that, in four-point-per-passing touchdown leagues, he was number four, number four, and number six per game. And in six-point-per-passing touchdown leagues, Watson was number seven, number six, and number six per game. So does he have top five upside?

Yeah, I mean, maybe technically it's like number six in six point, but he's shown that's what he's been. He's been a top five, six guy per game in every year of his career with Houston, which was a fairly run-heavy team, by the way, under Bill O'Brien. They ranked 12th, 4th, 12th, and then 31st in rush attempts per game in Deshaun Watson's four seasons there.

And he didn't exactly have the best receivers around him either. I mean, he had Hopkins for a little, and then they traded him. He had Hopkins, but then his best year was, other than his rookie year when it was a partial year, was the 4,900-yard year was with Will Fuller and Brandon Cooks. He had pretty good receivers. I mean, Hopkins was elite. Hopkins, Full with Will Fuller and Brandon cooks. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty good receivers. I mean, Hopkins was, you know,

elite Hopkins, Fuller, Fuller cooks, whatever Fuller's out of the NFL, but yeah, I guess he was full of that year though, was on steroids and had an amazing year. So that is true.

No, but yeah, I, I think he does have top five upside. Well, again, but just, just think about this.

If my homes, Alan and hurt, stay stay healthy is he better than those three no no is he a better in four point for passing touchdown leagues than lamar jackson if they're healthy yeah he could be i think would you take him over him would you consider of course not that that's not the question obviously that's the question would you consider him a better quarterback if both are healthy then noar Jackson. No, but his upside is, I think he has shown that he has as much upside. Not as much upside because

Jackson had that one year. I would take Jackson ahead, but I think he's got similar upside. In this scoring system, would you take Justin Fields or Deshaun Watson? I would take I would take Justin Fields, I guess. Yeah, we would take I would take Fields. Would you take Justin Herbert or Deshaun Watson? I'd take Fields. I would take Fields. You'd take Justin Herbert or Deshaun Watson?

I'd take Herbert. I would take Herbert. So, again, I don't think he's better than... No, this is a different question, though. There are more than five... No, that's a different question. No, there are more than five quarterbacks who have top five upside.

It doesn't mean I'm ranking him in the top five. It's like last year, Jamie. Me and you both agreed we were big on him and it didn't work out, but we both agreed Trey Lance had top five upside. We weren't taking him in the top five, though. No, no, no, no, no. But I think to answer the question, if everybody's healthy,

I don't think Deshaun Watson finishes in the top five. No, I don't either, but I could easily see him outperforming Justin Herbert or Lamar Jackson. The only three guys that really shock me if he outperformed them are the top three that you mentioned. Burrow in four-point passing touchdown. I could see him outperforming Burrow. We just have to remember that Sean Watson was elite.

Was absolutely elite. Watson could have an absolutely outstanding season. I just don't see him finishing in the top five. Yeah. Well, I think you're wrong about this, Jamie. I think if you think about the way we're phrasing it, I think we're right and you're wrong. Maybe. But you're a Giants fan. I don't know why he's you think about the way we're phrasing it, I think we're right and you're wrong. Maybe.

I don't know why he's grouping me into the we here. This is more of an Adam versus Jamie. It's a more philosophical thing. While I don't think he's going to finish in the top five, I do think he has top five upside. It's a totally separate thing. I don't think Daniel Jones has top five upside.

I don't think Kirk Cousins has top five upside. Agreed. I do think Deshaun Watson does. Yes, I would put Watson in that group. Now, where is Thomas Schaefer? Is that the Shining hallway? Schaefer's been messing with his background throughout the... Oh.

Is that the Shining or something? Yeah, it's the Shining. Oh, okay. I saw you were at the... It's trash, though. You were at the Seinfeld restaurant earlier, I saw. That was good. Oh, I like that.

And by the way... I got a lot of stuff going on behind me. By the way, what are a lot of stuff going on behind me? Can you give us a little insight into what that means? Don't worry about it. Oh, no. Whoa. Are you at home or at the office? No, I'm really intrigued.

No, I'm at home. If you thought that was going to make me less interested in what's going on behind you, that went the opposite way. Schaefer made a good point earlier. Is Rex Ryan the next Joe Gibbs coming out of retirement? That was a name. Actually, Joe Gibbs was decent with Washington, but they finished third or fourth in the division every year. But they actually did have a couple of decent years. Despite that.

Um, all right. Thanks for watching everybody. Have a great weekend. Nobody's working Friday anymore. So enjoy your four day weekend. Uh, we'll talk to you on Tuesday with another edition of fantasy football today.

See you later.