Fantasy Football Today - Fantasy Football YESTERDAY: The Best Fantasy Performances Since 1997 (05/11 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

Welcome to Fantasy Football YESTERDAY! All this week we are looking back at the best and the worst of Fantasy Football since 1997. Today, we review a draft of the best individual seasons. The best of Marshall Faulk, LaDanian Tomlinson, Marvin Harrison, Peyton Manning and more. First, we wonder if the NFL is about to go back in time by becoming a run-first league (2:55). Is this actually happening? We debate and discuss ... Getting into the "Best Seasons Ever" draft (15:40), Tomlinson was NOT the #1 pick. Why not? Why did two TEs go in the first round? Why does Randy Moss' 2007 season have a case as the best ever? ... As we go through the picks, we marvel at Harrison's greatness, how the RB landscape has changed and some names you may have forgotten about all while debating which criteria to use when evaluating these Fantasy seasons ... Your emails at [e-mail] and tweet us with #AskFFT 'Fantasy Football Today' is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Castbox, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Follow the new FFT Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/FFToday Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @YardsPerGretch, @BenSchragg Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCviK78rIWXhZdFzJ1Woi7Fg/videos Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Fantasy Football Yesterday from the Sports Division of Columbia Broadcasting System. Bonus at Klondike 5-1-2-1-2. It's time to dominate your fantasy league, if you have a time machine. Now, here's some swell combination of mr hazer mr richard mr eisenberg mr cummings and mr grouch and we are coming at you live on fantasy football yesterday i am mr hazer mr richard thank you for your beautiful voiceover work on our intro. You're welcome. I love it, Dave. Thank you so much. We're going back in time.

We actually recorded three different cuts, so you went with the one that sounds like the Monopoly man. Yes, it was the best one, obviously. Hopefully everybody enjoys it. A fun week of fantasy football today. It's fantasy football yesterday. We're looking at basically since the late 90s, the best, the worst, the biggest busts, the biggest surprises, the Peyton Hillises of the world, the things we remember most about fantasy football in what's been a really fun era. outstanding seasons and running back seasons that you basically just don't see anymore. Unless, of course, you saw it last year with Christian McCaffrey. But today, we're going through a draft that we did last week of the best seasons, the best individual seasons. Where did Christian McCaffrey's 2019 stack up?

What about that LaDainian Tomlinson 2006 season? Was that the number one pick? It wasn't! Spoiler alert, we'll tell you why. Also, I want to bring up all this week, in addition to the fantasy football yesterday topics like Mount Rushmore's, like I mentioned, the biggest bus.

Also, we're going to take a look ahead on Friday to, we're going to predict the all half-decade team from this year to 2025. And that should be pretty interesting. Like, is Trevor Lawrence going to make the list? But we're going to have a big topic at the

beginning of each show. We said hi to Dave. Mr. Eisenberg, good morning to you. Good morning. Happy belated Mother's Day to all the mothers who listen to us and all of you who celebrate. Absolutely. And Heath, how are you? Mr. Cummings, how are you? Yeah, what's the deal? Everybody else gets

a Mr. and all this respect. Heath! Heath, I just want you to know, Mr. Cummings, that you missed a very fun Zoom call last night. The family feud. Family Zoom. Sorry you couldn't be on it. Oh, boy, am I ever. We had fun. Hey, if you want to pass the time, do some zooming. All right, so let me start with this. I have barely any news,

and then we'll get to the best individual seasons. But since this is kind of a throwback week, here's our big topic for today. Is the NFL throwing back? Is the NFL going back to being more of a running league? Do you think we're seeing a trend of more handoffs, fewer throws? Are we moving in that direction? What do you guys think?

No. No. Also, no. Is there some sort of evidence that you might have that might suggest that we are? Because I think the league median was like 575 pass attempts last year. That's a lot compared to league history. Yeah. It basically feels like it peaked maybe like five, six years ago and has sort of plateaued.

Rush attempts were up a little bit last year, but pass attempts were also up a little bit last year. Plays were up from 62.9 in 2018 to 63.5 in 2019. One thing I did notice is there was one trend that stood out, is that each of the last two years, the top 10 teams in rush attempts, eight of them made the playoffs. Huh. And if you look at the last five years, how many of the top 10 rush attempt teams made the playoffs?

Six, three, six, eight, eight. There's also a little bit of a correlation to defense. Those are, in many cases, the best defensive teams or seven or eight of the best defensive teams. So it's hard to really draw a big conclusion. In fact, I sent the email with the notes to everybody and Ben Gretsch didn't seem to like it very much. Well, I mean, you got the big factor in all of that

is probably time of possession, too. You have the ball more, your defense is off the field more, your offense is on the field more. You're going to run more plays. You're going to run more rushing attempts. Yeah, so Ben said that running thing is correlation, not causation. Teams run more when they have good defenses and are winning games. Please don't suggest that running equals reason for winning.

Obviously. Yeah. We all know that. Well, but I do think that successful teams now... Okay, first of all, you have more quarterbacks running. So I thought that might kind of tip the scales to this becoming more of a running league. More quarterbacks are running in terms of what? Their rush attempts for the position?

Yeah, that's what I would guess anyway. I would guess quarterback rush attempts are up. You're guessing. You don't know. Correct. Okay. I don't know. It feels like successful teams, and the Packers are really what they seem to be wanting to do.

Successful teams might be willing to be more of a ground-and-pound team built on defense than what we've seen in recent years. Just an observation. Thoughts? Well, Tyron Matthew said about a month ago, you're going to see the NFL go back to being more run and defense oriented. Which is a surprise given the team that he's on.

Yeah, if that happens, then Patrick Mahomes is just going to win all the Super Bowls. He might. The thing that I think you see and this game is very cyclical. The Patriots, even when Tom Brady was throwing the ball more and having more success, were always good running the ball and playing defense.

Baltimore is a run-dominant team. They had the best record in the NFL last year. San Francisco is a run-dominant team. They had the best record in the NFC last year. The Packers were 13-3. Was it on the strength of Aaron Rodgers, or was it just their team was more balanced and they ran the ball very well? It was definitely running and defense.

Right. And now they're doubling down on it, it seems. Well, and again, I think that's what you see. You know, Mahomes is a generational talent. Right. Not everybody's going to have that. So how do you counter that? You keep him off the field as much as you can.

You have a good defense and you run the ball. And I also would say that Tom Brady's obviously passed his prime. Aaron Rodgers hasn't been as good. Peyton Manning's gone. Maybe the quarterback, we were in a great golden era of quarterback play. Maybe we just don't have that anymore unless, of course, you have Patrick Mahomes. Is there anything to this, Dave? Do you think that this has a fantasy impact? Because I think

when you look at what we're going to be talking about today, the best seasons for running backs, what LaDania Tomlinson and Priest Holmes and Stephen Jackson and Marshall Falk did, you really just don't see it. I mean, McCaffrey did it, but so much of it was his 115 catches.

That's another way the game has changed. But are we going to start seeing more monstrous running back seasons like we did 20 years ago or 15 years ago? If you mean monstrous running back seasons like the type of years that Adrian Peterson had where he's just running the ball over and over and over again, I'm going to say no. I think versatility is the new name of the game in the NFL. And the more ways that you can beat a defense, the more ways you can help your offense, the more likely you are to play. And just think about guys like Christian McCaffrey, like Lamar Jackson, they come to the field with so many different ways to beat you. And I think teams are just going to try and take advantage of that. And it's almost, I don't want to make this sound more simple than it is because football isn't

really that simple of a game, but when, when defenses try and defend the past, they're putting more defensive backs on the field. Those are smaller defensive players. Offenses might then use a physical running back. Like, I don't, Derrick Henry to go and pound on those defenses when they're, you know, quote unquote smaller. And then if a defense adjusts to it by getting bigger and putting a linebacker on the field or, you know, three defensive tackles to go with a pass rush or something like that, then the team will play chess and start throwing because there are slower people on the field. So I think it's going to be that Jamie said it was cyclical. I think that that's a good way to put it. There's a, you know, a chess match in every game and it's probably chess match season to season as well. And teams are certainly seeing how Christian McCaffrey is just an amazing offensive weapon. And Alomar Jackson is an offensive weapon. And there are, there are players that were in this draft that Clyde Edwards, he could be an offensive weapon because he's just such a good pass catcher out of the backfield. And we know that he can run the ball. So there's any way that versatility can help your team, the better off you are.

And I think that offensive play calling, just to further the point of versatility, is also huge because teams want to spread the ball around. They don't want to be predictable. They want to spread the ball around. They don't want to be predictable. They want to be balanced. Some teams would prefer to just throw a little bit more than run, and maybe their version of balanced is not exactly 50-50, but just keep people guessing. And if you can use personnel to do that as well, then you're going to win. But I do think it's important.

You mentioned Christian McCaffrey and teams are noticing what he did, and Clyde Edwards, Eli, we were all a little bit surprised that he was the first choice. The reason those running backs are so impactful is because of what they do in the passing game. Yeah. No, go ahead. I was going to say, kind of in line with what

both of you guys were saying, we had McCaffrey on our set during Radio Row at Super Bowl 54 in Miami. I mean, he was kind of, it was a funny conversation between Pete Pisco and Brian McFadden. McFadden's a two-time Super Bowl champion with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And he said, McCaffrey said, Pete doesn't like you because you play running back. And Pete goes, no, no, no, no, no, no. I like him because he does the things I like what a running back does. And McCaffrey heading into what was going to be a contract situation, as we know, he got paid. He said, I caught, I had a thousand yards receiving. How many receivers have a thousand yards receiving? And he, he brought the fact, you know, Dave used the terminology. He said, I'm, I'm, I don't want to clarify, classify myself as a running back. I want to classify myself as an offensive weapon.

I'm sure that was a little bit of posturing for his money. But I think that that's the type of player you would love to have. Now, the difference is McCaffrey can run between the tackles, as we've seen. And he's been very successful at the position. But are we going to find guys like that? I think that's what every team is searching for. You know, you hope the guys that were drafted in the second round of this year's NFL draft. I don't think Jonathan Taylor profiles that way, but probably, you know, if things go well and you get DeAndre Swift and Cam Akers and

J.K. Dobbins, those guys can be those type of weapons, not to that ceiling. At least that's what you would project. But, you know, that would be the hope. And then you have another guy like Antonio Gibson, who the Redskins are already trying to call the next Christian McAffrey. Okay. Well, have we concluded our thoughts on this topic? No. We have not concluded? It's good that you made a guess on how much quarterbacks are running.

You don't agree with me? I think you probably would find that their attempts year over year are within range. I think that since Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson have come into the league, it's probably, I don't know, I feel like it's a lot higher. Yeah, but those guys are running. Yeah, those guys are leading the way right now. I mean, we didn't have Cam Newton last year, but still, I mean, I just think that, and when you look at fantasy success and what we saw last year with almost every quarterback in the top 10 having 250

or more rushing yards, big difference. And to be fair, the year before, it was mostly pocket passers in the top 10. It was Matt Ryan and Ben Roethlisberger and guys like that, but I don't know. I would be shocked if running back, if quarterback rush attempts weren't up. I don't know um i i would i would be shocked if running back if quarterback rush attempts weren't up i don't know in terms of rush attempts but since 2000 i believe it is um

there's been 24 quarterbacks to have at least 500 yards rushing and so you know i i think if i remember looking at the story i wrote for lamar Jackson, there was 2014 might have been a good year with Cam and Russell Wilson and what they did. Okay. But Kyler Murray, who were the top three in rushing yards last year? It was probably Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, and Josh Allen. They were the only three guys over 500 yards. And they're all one to two years into the league.

So, I don't know. It's got to count. It's got to count. It's got to count for something. But the rushing comes down, as we've seen from Russell Wilson, for example. His second year, I think it was, he had 849 yards rushing, and he hasn't come close to that since. I think just we've brought more rushing quarterbacks in. It's a bigger part of the game.

That, I think, is another NFL trend. Agreed. I just don't know if they're running more. Well, they're running for more yards. Is it design runs or is it plays breaking down? It doesn't matter. It's fewer passes. Well, I mean, if it's a passing set,

it's fewer passes. It's not a design run. I don't care about what they're lining up in. I care about how many times they throw. Okay. That's what I'm saying. But the league median was higher last year than it was the year before in terms of pass attempts. Yeah.

We also ran more plays. I think the percentage is probably... It was pretty similar. But yeah, you're right. I don't know. I wonder how many teams are going to try to duplicate the model of the Ravens and the 49ers because it's harder to duplicate the model of the Chiefs because you don't have Patrick Mahomes. It's hard to duplicate the model of the Ravens.

Well, the Ravens, yeah. But not the Niners. Not the Niners. We've seen time and time again. No, the Ravens have Lamar Jackson. But the Niners would be a better example. Who are the top 10? The top 10 in rushing attempts last year were Baltimore, San Francisco, Seattle, Minnesota, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Philadelphia, Dallas,

New England, Tennessee. Eight of them made the playoffs. Let's move on. All right, it's time for fantasy football. Yesterday, all week long on CBS Sports HQ as well, noon Eastern. Tomorrow, we're unveiling the positional Mount Rushmore, and that's going to coincide with what we do here on Sports HQ as well, noon Eastern. Tomorrow, we're unveiling the positional Mount Rushmore, and that's going to coincide with what we do here on the podcast as well. But the Mount Rushmore is going to be great.

Really fun debates there. That's Tuesday on the podcast and on HQ at noon Eastern. Big debates around the running backs and the wide receivers. And get ready for another stream on the FFT Twitch channel, Tuesday, May 12th, 7 p.m. Eastern. We'll be broadcasting live from our Twitch channel. Follow along as we reminisce on the biggest one-year wonders, the biggest breakouts, the worst busts of all time.

Go to twitch.com slash FFToday or search FFToday on Twitch to follow us ahead of time. We're also going to put that Twitch link in the description of the episode. There's really not a lot of news and notes. The Saints released right guard Larry Warford. They're going to replace him with either a first-year player, their first-round pick, Cesar Ruiz, or second-year offensive lineman Eric McCoy.

And Jarek McKinnon has not begun to cut yet, so he's still making some progress from the knee injury, but he has not been cutting yet. So here we go. We did the draft. There were, I think, six of us. Is that right? Six of us? There were eight of us. Nine of us. Eight were i think six of us is that right six of us oh there were

uh eight of us nine of us eight of us eight of us okay well just the eight of us all right i didn't yeah my team sucked and so did ben schrager so we don't have to look at ours uh but there were eight of us dave jamie heath chris towers george maselli ben gretch ben schrager and adam azer in that order and dave you had the first pick and what we had to do was since it was like 1997, I believe, when Sportsline Fantasy Game began, we had to pick the best individual seasons. And when you picked that season, every other season from that player was no longer eligible to be picked.

So a player was only represented once. We needed to have two running backs, three receivers, quarterback, tight end, and two flexes. And Dave, you went with Marshall Falk in 2000 over the Damian Tomlinson in 2006. Why? This was not an easy decision. And if I wanted to just take the simple route,

Tomlinson scored more fantasy points in 06 than Falk did in 2000. And maybe that's what I should have done. And maybe that's all this should be is just a pick by pick in order of, you know, the number of fantasy points everybody got. But when I look at what Falk did in 2000, I was really impressed. First of all, he averaged more than two fantasy points per game than Tomlinson. And just in context, Tomlinson's year in 2006, 31 touchdowns, well over 2,000 yards. He was amazing. Falk still averaged more fantasy points per game. He had more catches.

The scoring for this was PPR. He had more yards per carry. He had more yards per catch. He had two games with over 100 yards receiving. Tomlinson had none. He had seven games with over 150 total yards. LT had six. He had 10 games with five plus catches. LT had five. He didn't fumble the whole year. He scored the third most fantasy points since 1997, and he did it in only 14 games. I thought that made for a better season than LaDania Tomlinson's

record-breaking year. I know it sounds crazy because Tomlinson scored all those touchdowns. He had all those yards. If this were non-PPR, I'm pretty sure I couldn't make the same argument, but Marshall Falk was outstanding. He actually set the table for guys like Tomlinson and Christian McCaffrey and all these pass-catching backs. He was doing it at a ridiculous pace. I just thought that that was the best season all time for any running back i didn't want to take a quarterback because i knew i could get a good value on one a little later on marshall falk was my first pick i i thought a good tiebreaker between those two was their performance in what was the fantasy playoffs then weeks 14 through 16, Marshall Falk outscored Tomlinson by more than nine points per game.

He scored eight touchdowns from weeks 14 through 16. They both had like 450 yards. It was just absurd. That's awesome. That's a good tiebreaker there. And this was subjective. You could do this any way you wanted, total points. I think what was interesting to me was really, I guess I had just forgotten about how great that season was for Falk

because to me, the best fantasy season was Tomlinson in 2006, and that's what Jamie took with the second pick. But actually, in terms of PPR points per game, it was third in this era behind Marshall Falk and Priest Holmes in 2003. But Jamie, you were happy, I think, to take LaDainian Tomlinson. Yeah, and you mentioned that

we really didn't have a parameter for how we were going to be judged. And I wrote the story about the draft, and just going back and looking at all the teams. Dave is really the only one who took the approach of points per game more so than the total points. Just because in adding it all up, Dave was last of all of our teams in total points,

but he was first in points per game. I was first in total points and third in points per game. Heath was second in both. And you guys had the top three picks, by the way. It was a big advantage. Well, and we'll certainly talk about this, but I took Travis Kelsey in round two. Adam, you took Jimmy Graham in round one.

And Chris Towers took Rob Gronkowski in round one. And if you just were to take, Dave sort of hinted at this, if you just were to take the total points, taking a tight end to get one of the best ones may have helped your team i was the only one where it benefited of the the guys who took a top tier tight end early um but if you just load it up on running backs they were so far better than yeah than every other position so like in the story if you see it on our site i asked asked everybody in the draft, you know, favorite pick, pick your regret

and play you missed out on. Like if I had taken Todd Gurley, who Dave took with his with his second pick, the last pick in round two, instead of taking Travis Kelsey, my team would have been that much better. Right. Yeah. And so I wasn't just... You didn't take a running back in the first two rounds. No, I didn't. I took Jimmy Graham and Antonio Brown. Graham in 2013, Brown in 2014. We'll get to my picks and I'll explain my reasoning, but I wasn't just looking for the most points.

There was another criteria that I was using that I don't think anybody else was using that I don't really get to explain till now, but it was the reason why I did it. All right, so Falk won Tomlinson 2, and then Heath, you took McCaffrey 2019, McCaffrey 3. Yeah, and I just thought there was a little bit of a drop-off in terms of total points after that, and I wanted to have an elite running back.

Yeah, and I don't know why Chris went with Gronkowski over Priest-Holmes. Because Priest-Holmes' 2003 season was just ridiculous. 320 carries for 1,400 yards, 27 touchdowns, plus another 690 receiving yards. It's amazing to catch a touchdown that year. But that wasn't even—oh, I didn't realize that wasn't his best points per game. 2002 was actually his best points per game in PPR. That was interesting. Yeah, he didn't catch a touchdown. He had 690 receiving yards, no touchdowns.

That's weird. Gronk went before Priest Holmes and then after that it was Steven Jackson 2006. Guys, Jackson, his 2006 season, 1,500 rushing yards, 806 receiving yards, 13 rushing touchdowns.

Believe it or not, his only season with double-digit rushing touchdowns. Whereas Priest Holmes had two straight seasons with more than 20 rushing touchdowns. When we first started this exercise, where was Steven Jackson in your mind? In this range. Yeah.

I don't think I would have immediately thought of that season. I think probably because there was only 13 touchdowns. It's easier to remember a big touchdown season than a big total yard season to me. One thing that I found interesting was I went back and looked at the players that we drafted. We drafted 72 guys. The Rams had three running backs in this era

that were just amazing. With Falk, Gurley, and Jackson. The Chiefs had the most players that we drafted with seven. And they had the most tight ends with two. And the Packers had the most wide receivers drafted was seven. And they had the most tight ends with two. And the Packers had the most wide receivers drafted with three.

Really? Yeah, we ended up drafting a lot of players. I think Rod Smith got drafted. There were definitely some Oh, yeah! Can you name the three teams that did not have a player represented? Jacksonville. No, Jacksonville did.

Jimmy Smith, 1999. There's no way I'm going to get this. Dave, are you also thinking? I think I know the answer. I sent you guys the answer. Right, right, right. I don't want to say.

Raiders. The Raiders. Are they the third team say. Raiders. The Raiders, are they the third team? Let me check. The Dolphins. No, the Dolphins. I drafted Ricky Williams in 2002. Ricky Williams.

He was awesome that year. Yeah, yeah. Again, like, oh yeah. Obviously, like you say Ricky Williams 2002. I don't remember what Ricky Williams stats were in 2002. Let's take a look.

I covered that team. The Raiders had Charlie Garner drafted in 2002. 1853 yards and 16 touchdowns on the ground for Ricky Williams, plus another 363 yards receiving. 383 carries. And how about these 400 carry seasons? Larry Johnson, 416 carries. I think Adrian Peterson had a year like that.

I don't know how many 400s, but you had some 380s. That was another thing that jumped out to me. Man, those guys are at work. The three teams were the Bills, the Bucks, and the third B, the Bengals. Interesting. All right, let the third B, the Bengals. Interesting. All right, let's go back to the draft. So Falk in 2000, Tomlinson in 2006, McCaffrey 2019, Gronk in 2011. How good was that Gronk 2011 season?

He averaged 20.7 PPR points per game, 20.7. Jimmy Graham in 2013 was next at just about 19 ppr points per game so in terms of points per game this was the best year and he played 16 games it was it was 1300 yards and 17 touchdowns unbelievable for a tight end uh so he went before as i mentioned priest holmes and then Steven Jackson 2006 Randy Moss 2007 was the one I really wanted and uh that was Ben Schrager that was the seventh overall pick and that was just an amazing year it was the best points per game uh it was the best total points in both non and PPR I'm almost positive it was the best it was just the best it,500 yards and 23 touchdowns. Slightly better, slightly better than Marvin Harrison in 2002,

who had 1,700 yards and only 11 touchdowns, but he had 143 catches compared to just 98 for Moss in 2007. So when you look at PPR, they were close. But here's what I loved about that season, guys, and this is what I was talking about, the criteria that I used. I wasn't able to track down his ADP, but Moss was coming off a bad year. So I imagine he was a little bit discounted in 2007. And he scored 70 more fantasy points than wide receiver two that year in PPR.

And that was one of the highest. So that was another criteria that I was looking at. How much better were you than number two? And what was your ADP? So that's why I thought Moss was a great pick at seven. And that's why I took Jimmy Graham at eight because Jimmy Graham was 88 points better than any other tight end in 2013. And I had data going back to 2001. That was the biggest margin by far between tight end one and tight end two. Second best was Tony Gonzalez, 62 points better than tight end two in 2008. So that's why I took Jimmy Graham because I was looking for not just total points but outlier seasons, dominating seasons, seasons that really set players apart.

Obviously, all of those fit that bill, but Graham for me. I think that's good, though, that you at least have an explanation for why you have the worst team. The lowest scoring team, I guess. I don't know if it was. Was it the lowest scoring? Jamie, did I come in last in points? No, Dave was last in points? No,

Dave, there was a little bit last in total points, but again, he, he sacrificed games played for better seasons. Um, we won't go through this whole thing that Jamie published the article, but the second round was Antonio Brown in 2014,

which was, uh, just, just incredible. Uh, what was that? 1700 yards and 13 touchdowns, 129 catches. And once you take Antonio Brown,

nobody else can take any other Antonio Brown seasons. So he had the third best season, the fourth best season among all these wide receivers. So that's why I took him there. And then we had Arian Foster in 2010,id johnson 2016 the first quarterback was mahomes in 2018 and then peyton manning in 2013 should peyton manning is peyton manning 2013 really the best season shouldn't that have gone first yep um is the guy that's asking this question the guy that took antonio brown over marvin harrison i am and there's got to be a reason why i did that so let Is the guy that's asking this question the guy that took Antonio Brown over Marvin Harrison?

I am. And there's got to be a reason why I did that. So let me investigate. Wait. First, you probably guessed. I took him because he was wide receiver eight in ADP that season. And he finished as wide receiver one and he was 39 points better than everyone else. I should have calculated that when I was adding up the team. Whatever you want to do.

I just thought that the fact that Brown went from wide receiver eight to finishing number one was a big deal. Whereas I would guess Marvin Harrison in 2002 was the number one wide receiver taken because he also finished number one in 2001. So I just thought the value was better. The fantasy points were almost identical. So what's a better season? Being number one as the guy who was drafted number one or being number one as the guy who was drafted number eight? You're welcome. Thank you. I'm the

best. Now it makes sense. Yeah, but I don't know how big of a factor draft day value should be in this equation. because everybody that we're drafting was pretty much a you know not a 10th round pick or whatever in the year that they were drafted but that i don't see that as being a huge part of the equation that is actually the case for rob ronkowski in 2000 oh i remember that that. Because that was his second year. He had a, you know, whatever, rookie year.

He was like the 12th tight end off the board or something like that in ADP. So if that's the criteria you want to use, you could argue that was the best season that we've seen. Comes out of nowhere and puts up the greatest season in tight end history. He was the 12th tight end drafted, finished number one, and that's the best tight end season in NFL history. I'm just trying to decide which of... Do I enjoy the

is the NFL becoming a running league take more or the value in the best seasons of all time draft? Those are both very interesting takes. I don't know. I guess I just had to mix it up. We had to do something a little bit different.

Mahomes, Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Travis Kelsey in 2018. Adam was going to take the best punter in this era, but we weren't allowed to. And Todd Gurley in 2017. All right. So let's just, I guess, talk about some big takeaways from here. Heath, what stood out to you? Overall. I understood why there was the big run on running backs,

but I thought that there were some spectacular wide receiver values in the later rounds. Such as? Well, I was very, very happy to get Terrell Owens where I did in the fifth round I think he was like top seven or eight on a per game basis maybe even a little bit better in that year mm and then I thought Josh Gordon which I just kind of forgot about was a really good selection in the sixth round by Jamie I have a getting Adams, obviously, just before that as well.

But I did think that maybe the running back thing went just a little bit too far later in the draft. And I think the reason why it did is because of the lineup criteria that we had. We had two running backs that we could start plus two flex spots. And I think that if we only had one flex spot, we wouldn't have been so running back crazy, but we've already talked about how running backs scored more points than, than receivers. Then that's just not, you know,

old time fantasy results. That's just the way that it is in fantasy football. They touch the ball more than receivers do, but it, I think that's why we saw so many running. That's why I took four running backs with my first six picks. And I had a hard time. I was hoping T.O. would make it back to me.

What round was that, round five? Heath, you took him two spots in front of me. I think I took him right after you picked him. No, you took Bell first because I struggled with Drew Brees versus T.O. Did I? Yeah. So maybe I just couldn't resist Bell in early round five. And then that's what it is, is that I was hoping Gordon would make it to me in round six,

and Jamie took him one spot in front of me. But those were two receivers that I was looking at. And when Gordon was gone and there was a big receiver run in round five, I just said, forget it. I'm going to take another running back to fill my flex. And Portis, 2003. I think if you want to look at just the trends, the running back seasons,

let me just make sure I got this stat right. So the top 10 running back seasons in terms of total fantasy points, only two of them were after 2006. Tomlinson, then McCaffrey in 2019 was two, Marshall Falk, Priest Holmes, Adanian Tomlinson, Priest Holmes, Marshall Falk, Steven Jackson. Number nine was David Johnson from 2016, and number 10 was Marshall Falk. Number 11 was Edgar and James in 2000. Pretty amazing, you know, the early 2000s up to 2006. You have some of the great all-time seasons from running

backs and you just don't really get that anymore, which makes Christian McCaffrey's 2019 season even more remarkable. Where was Adrian Peterson drafted? I feel like I took Adrian Peterson. It was his 2012 season in round eight. Yeah, I took him. And I loved was his 2012 season in round 8 Yeah I took him

And I loved that season I wonder if he had gone sooner if this were a non-PPR Exercise I'm sure he would have It's funny, this is a great example Again of 2100 yards rushing Look how impactful catches are

In PPR There are a lot of people that deem that as unfair. They don't think it's right that catches are worth a full point, you know, the equivalent of 10 yards in fantasy football. And maybe this is another example, a historical example of why that's the case. Oh, Charlie Barner. Because Adrian Peterson, he was one of the greatest running backs in the whole era that we're looking at here. And he didn't go until round eight because he didn't catch the ball that much. He's on the Mount Rushmore, right? Yes. He made the Mount Rushmore.

I don't know. I don't think Peterson made my Mount Rushmore, though. He didn't make mine either, but he made the consensus Mount Rushmore. How is he one of the top four running backs of this time? How is he one of the top four running backs of this time? Because he was outstanding for a long period of time he's got to be number four because tomlinson yes and holmes are like they were consensus top three right right i don't know how far you want to look ahead on this no you're right i don't i'm gonna talk about it later in the week but spoiler alert so okay i

asked you guys earlier should payton manning have gone ahead of Patrick Mahomes? But what if I told you that Peyton Manning's ADP was QB3 and Patrick Mahomes' ADP was QB15, and their fantasy point totals were very, very similar? Shouldn't that tip the scales to Mahomes, who also was 16 points better, 15 points better than Manning was compared to QB2? Like, Mahomes scored 74 more

points than QB2 and Manning scored 59 more points. So it was a bigger gap and Mahomes was the 15th quarterback off the board. Heath, talk about that criteria. This criteria, baby. It's the word of the day. It's why I really won this draft.

I think if you had done it in a slightly, like forget about where they were drafted thing. That's dumb. And you should not talk about it anymore because it ruins the rest of your point. What, the ADP? But if you had done their production

relative to the current league environment, like not necessarily number two, but relative to like the league average, then I think you could make, like, that they had a higher war. Their OPS plus was better. Like, a baseball-type argument, that could have been done. Why should ADP not factor in here? Because how bad we were at projecting how good they were going to be doesn't factor into how good they were. The way I interpret it was the best fantasy seasons.

So that to me factors in average draft position, not just total points, but the impact it had on your team. You get a guy who did it in the eighth round compared to a guy that you drafted in the first round. That guy had a better season when he took in the eighth round. And I would ask this, how many years of average draft position were you able to locate? Ten. So, and this exercise covered 23 years? Yeah.

So, less than 40% of the seasons you were able to apply this criteria to. But in this case, in the Peyton Manning versus Patrick Mahomes case, I can compare the two. I would only use data that I had for the entire era. I can guarantee you that Marvin Harrison was probably, I guarantee he was probably the number one wide receiver drafted in 2002 since he

was number one in 2001. Seems like a good guess. Yes, and Antonio Brown was wide receiver eight in 2014. Look, not everybody can be as clever as I can be. Anything else, guys? Anything else? How about some steals?

Some, some, whoa, what a great pick. I thought Dave's pick of Odell Beckham in 2014 in round four was, was pretty good, just given the fact that points per game wise, he was the best wide receiver ever.

Yeah. Yeah. I was surprised. That's amazing. That I got him then. Heath mentioned Josh Gordon. I was happy to get him. I thought Charlie Garner. I was about to say that PPR, he had 90 catches that season

and 900 receiving yards. He had 1,800 total yards that year. Did not rush for 1,000 yards, but he was just amazing catching the ball. I think you look at some of the the running back values that went uh he's getting uh alvin kamara in in 2018 in round seven it was impressive um uh ben trager's pick of barry sanders in 1997 you know it's funny like to think that he made this era um 98 was his last year 97 he had i think it was like five straight years of over 300 carries it was pretty impressive to see looking back on his numbers because you know you see the

highlights you remember barry sanders and obviously you know that he was great statistically but to go back and actually study his you know his career stats is just this is fun that i think was the best part about this is just getting a chance to look at some of these just amazing amazing players and what they did like well what was fascinating to me was um how some of the receivers didn't match up with the quarterback's best years so like my homes for example the best years for tyree kill and travis kelsey was all 2018 uh i would have i would have thought if you asked me before this west walker's best year was 2007 but statistically his best year was 2011 so it didn't match brady um demarius thomas his best year was 2011, so it didn't match Brady. Demaryius Thomas' best year was 2014, didn't match Peyton Manning's best year of 2013.

So those things stood out to me. And if you were to ask me just a trivia question, when was Steve Smith's best season, I would have said definitely during Cam Newton, but it was Steve Berling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one jumped out at me too. Hey, fun stuff, guys.

Brandon Marshall's best year coming with the Jets. Wow. Yeah. Wow. He had 109 catches. I think I had somewhat forgotten about the greatness of Marvin Harrison. Obviously, I know he's one of the all-time greats, but even knowing he's one of the all-time greats and seeing his numbers just...

Year after year after year, so good. I wrote the piece for our wide receiver, Mount Rushmore, and there was a number that came. I don't know how many receivers in NFL history have ever had one season like this. He had a stretch from 1999 through 2006 where he averaged more than 100 catches more than 1400 yards and more than 12 touchdowns from 99 to 2006 you know what i wish he's what I wish his ADP had been a little bit lower. Yeah, I understand that.

That's probably why I think you may have been the only person. No, you were the only person to not have Randy Moss in your top two. Really? Yeah. Who in my top two, Brown and Harrison? I think so, yeah. Well, like Antonio Brown. Okay, Marvin Harrison, 2002.

That was his best year. 23.89 fantasy points per game. Antonio Brown, 2014. 23.81. And then Antonio Brown had the next best season, right? So it was Moss, 2007. Harrison, 2002. Brown, Brown 2014, Brown 2015. I got no problem with that.

You know what? I'm not going to spoil Mount Rushmore. I'm not going to spoil it. All right, guys. So thank you. That was awesome. It was really fun. And tomorrow, Mount Rushmore. I think that's going to be the best one.

I'm looking forward to those debates. And it's all going to be on HQ this week as well. You can see the results of this draft on CBSSports.com slash fantasy. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll read some emails to finish the show. Kick off an exciting football season with BetMGM, an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. Yard after yard, down after down,

the sportsbook born in Vegas gives you the chance to take action to the end zone and celebrate every highlight reel play. And as an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, BetMGM is the best place to fuel your football fandom on every game day. With a variety of exciting features, BetMGM offers you plenty of seamless ways to jump straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action. Ready for another season of gridiron glory? What are you waiting for? Get off the bench, into the huddle, and head for the end zone all season long. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem? For free assistance, call the Connex Ontario helpline at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario.

Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference. Securian Canada gives you that coverage. For more than 65 years, Securian Canada has been helping Canadians build secure tomorrows. Your email is at fantasyfootball at cbsi.ca. Securian Canada. Insurance designed for life. Your email is at fantasyfootballatcbsi.com. This is from Pete Z. Dave, I haven't asked you this in a while, but where is Pete Z from? He is from Syosset, New York. I'm at a 12.

Oh, he says, Dear Doc, Hubie, Derek, and Rod. NBA color analyst? Who is it? Doc Rivers did it for a while. Hubie Brown's been doing it since the 1880s. It also feels like Knicks to me. Say the names again. I'm sorry. Ready? Doc, Hubie, Derek,

and Rod. Those are absolutely Knicks. Rod Strickland. Yeah. Derek Harper. Derek Harper, Doc Rivers. Hubie Brown was their coach. But I'm wondering if he was thinking of Hubert Davis. Thinking of Hubert. Hubert, not Hubie.

12-team PPR League. Hubie Brown did coach the Knicks at one time. Yeah, I know. But these all feel like guards to me. I agree. So I think it should be Hubert. 12-team PPR League. We can keep two players drafted after the But these all feel like guards to me. I agree. So I think it should be Hubert. 12-team PPR league. We can keep two players drafted after the second round for up to three years. Choose two.

Austin Eckler in the sixth. In the sixth. A.J. Green in the seventh. Devin Singletary in the ninth. Darren Waller in the fourteenth. All right. Pick two of them. Eckler in the sixth. A.J. Green in the ninth. Darren Waller in the fourteenth. Alright, pick two of them. Eckler in the sixth. AJ Green in the seventh. Devin Singletary

in the ninth. Darren Waller in the fourteenth. The first one and the last one. Yeah, it's pretty easy for me. Eckler and Waller. This is from No Name, Dave, Naaman City. Bart from Springfield.

Springfield. Who in this rookie draft could be a fantasy superstar? What the hell is wrong with me? Within the next two to three years, and how realistic is that to happen? I mean, all the guys we've said at the top, I think. Edwards, Allaire, Taylor, Dobbins, Swift, Akers,

Lamb, Judy, maybe Rager, maybe Jefferson. Maybe Vaughn. Maybe Vaughn. Maybe Chennault. Maybe Rooks. Yeah, I think that's it. And Burrow, obviously. And Tua. Yeah, Tua's healthy. Any rookie

draft list that you see, the first 12 picks all have a shot. Then there'll be the surprises like we saw last year with McLaurin and A.J. Brown, guys that made it to round two, in some cases round three. There'll be surprises, but those guys were drafted high in the NFL draft for a reason, and that's the reason we've been talking about a lot of these guys. Again, I think you look at if there's an injury,.j dylan could be a star right away he could be a star next year um antonio gibson could be the hype that he's starting to get out of washington

could could live up to it um zach moss darrington evans you know those guys can end up with good roles based on injuries that could be fantastic so this is my favorite trivia question who's older ronald jones or kishan vaughn vaughn yeah weird right no he played four years in college yeah not not a lot of good running backs do that yep but uh nick chubb was pretty old too. So he came into the league kind of old. Alright, this is from Nolan in the bicycle capital of the Northwest.

No guesses? Portland. Okay, Portland. Vancouver. Hey, Ray, Luke, Kylo, and Sheev. Those are Nick's. What do you think? He's on Hoth. He's on Hoth?

What does that mean? It's a Star Wars reference. Nerd. What do you think about trading... Jeez. What do you think about trading 1.10 and 1.11 to get 1.1 in a 12-team, 1QB Dynasty League? I also have 1.2 and 1.6. So he has the second and

sixth picks of round one. He also has 10 and 11. He can trade 10 and 11 to get the first pick. Would you do it? Do it as quickly as possible. Yeah. Of course. Get on your bike and ride as fast as you can. Who would trade down from one to get 10 and 11? Somebody needs to rebuild and get two good players.

Would you do that, though? Yeah, maybe they're loaded at running back. That's too risky. I would probably want a player thrown in two. But I would... I mean, if he has four picks in the first round, I'd probably say give me six and one of the two back-end ones.

Right. Well, okay, he's got... He's got, what did I say? Two and six and 10 and 11. Right. Would you give up six 10 and, and eleven to get one? No. I wouldn't give up all three.

I'd give up six and ten. Sure. I wouldn't give up all three. Okay. By the way, Redmond, Washington, bicycle capital of the Northwest. Thank you, Google. Jed from a city with a AAA baseball affiliate. Nashville.

Do they? Pretty affiliate. Nashville. Do they? Pretty sure. Okay. Dear group of guys whose last names don't rhyme with catch. I like that. 12-team, non-PPR, six-point-per-passing touchdown league. It initially seems a no-brainer to keep Lamar Jackson with my ninth-round pick, but how much consideration should I give to Miles Sanders

in the fifth round? Non-PPR, six point per pass in touchdown league, would you rather have Lamar Jackson in the ninth or Miles Sanders in the fifth? Well, it's fun that you bring that up because there's a rumor circulating that the Eagles may be looking at adding a running back in Carlos Hyde. So if they add a running back, that's going to

devalue Sanders just a little bit. I mean, Jackson's going to be it's hard to say it's a running quarterback in Carlos Hyde. So if they add a running back, that's going to devalue Sanders just a little bit. I mean, Jackson's going to be, it's hard to say it's for a running quarterback, but safer just because positions. But I think as much as I would lean towards Sanders most times, I'd probably keep Jackson at that value. Can you keep him long-term at that value? Or is it really like a one-year only type of thing?

When you ask me that, do you think I know the answer? I'm saying that because that's the context that we need. I'm not asking for you to give that answer. It's more rhetorical. Most of these keeper questions, for years, are only one year. That's how I interpret it, yeah.

They usually specify when they can keep them for more than one year. I guess specify anyway. But what's everybody's answer? Jackson in the ninth or Sanders in the fifth? Jackson. I'm taking Lamar. And Carlos Hyde joining Miles Sanders is like telling your kid,

we're going to Disney World, but we've got to bring your smelly Uncle Cliff with you. And he's got to hold your hand the whole time. Smelly Uncle Cliff. All right. Hey, Brian, BJ, Brett, and Jordan, this is from Tom in a Canadian city of Dave's choosing. Let's go with, oh, what's that city? Toronto.

What is Brian, BJ, Brett, and Jordan? This one I don't know. How does the 2QB format affect the top of rookie dynasty drafts? Does Joe Burrow automatically become the top priority? I have the second overall pick, and I could use help at quarterback and running back. I would personally still take Clyde and Jonathan Taylor over Burrow, but Burrow will probably go first or second in most rookie super flex leagues.

There it is. I still don't know what these players are. Brian, BJ, Brett, and Jordan. Maybe they have a last name in common. Smith. This is something to do with... No, I was thinking Packers. So was Google, but I think Google was wrong.

All right. I think it's Packers. Brett Favre, Jordan Favre. Jordan Favre. Jordan Love. Yeah, Jordan Love. How is Brian spelled? B-R-I-A-N.

Okay, so it's not Balaga. He's no longer there. Hmm. Let's talk more about criteria. On tomorrow's show, Mount Rushmore. Fantasy Football Yesterday continues all week long. Hope you enjoyed the first edition. What's happening today?

What's that? Is there something else today that's happening? What? You should promote. I already did. I promoted HQ like six times. Eh. No, I promoted HQ.

I feel very good about my HQ promotion. I will be defending the honor of Terrell Owens on tomorrow's show. And you're Mount Rushmore. Yes. Okay. One of us was really, really low on Tony Gonzalez apparently. So that has to be discussed as well. We need to end the show.

I've been rambling for about 45 minutes now. See ya.