Fantasy Football Today - Four Rankings Debates! ARSB vs. Nico, AJ Brown vs. Drake London and More (03/24 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

We've got some spicy rankings debates for you on today's show, but first let's talk about Jameis Winston to the Giants (4:40)! What does this mean for Malik Nabers? How many games will Winston actually play? ... Debating Amon-Ra St. Brown vs. Nico Collins (14:30). Who has more upside? Is Nico just as safe as St. Brown? Then we move on to Drake London vs. A.J. Brown (22:15) which is a tough call in full PPR. Did we already see the best of London, or is there room for more? ... DeVonta Smith vs. Chris Olave (32:00). What kind of ceiling does Olave have? Why were his 2024 numbers so disappointing? And we finish with Jameson Williams vs. Marvin Harrison Jr. (41:00). Do we even know who the more talented wide receiver is in this debate? ... Email us at [e-mail] Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever else you listen to podcasts Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Shop our store: shop.cbssports.com/fantasy  SUBSCRIBE to FFT Express on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-express/id1528634304 Follow FFT Express on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6qyGWfETSBFaciPrtvoWCC?si=6529cbee20634da8 SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dynasty/id1696679179 FOLLOW FFT Dynasty on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aHlmMJw1m8FareKybdNfG?si=8487e2f9611b4438&nd=1 SUBSCRIBE to FFT DFS on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dfs/id1579415837 FOLLOW FFT DFS on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5zU7pBvGK3KPhfb69Q1hNr?si=1c5030a3b1a64be2 Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." Visit the betting arena on CBSSports.com for all the latest sportsbook reviews and sportsbook To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is fantasy football today from CBS Sports It's time to dominate your fantasy league Here's some combination of Adam Dave Jamie and he It's time for a rankings fight for Four rankings disputes. I looked at Dave's rankings. I said, no, don't agree with you there, my friend. Except I didn't call him a friend. I just said the nasty things that were going to get me. You said some really terrible things and I for one am very offended. Yeah. So we got four rankings disputes. Then Jamie's going to weigh in, see what side he's

on. Nico Collins versus Amon Ross St. Brown, Chris Olave versus Devante Smith, AJ Brown versus Drake London, Marvin Harrison Jr. versus Jameson Williams. I did not intend for these to be for wide receiver rankings disputes, but that's how it worked out. Hey, how those brackets looking guys? Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha. Pfft. It's a great tournament so far. Love it. You know, I thought that I had jinxed Florida when I, when I said before the tournament that they were like the only team that I knew anything about and I didn't mean to jinx them. I really am impressed by them. And then when they got off to the slow start in their second game, I was like, Oh no, the jinx is real. But alas, they came

through and they are still my pick to win the whole thing. Florida. Oh, that's great, Dave. I was really, I picked Yukon to beat them, but that was a pure hate pick. It almost worked out. You guys know Will Lutz, right? Kicker personally. Oh no. Well, he is actually in first place in the fantasy football today bracket challenge. Oh, no kidding. Wow. Well, it's a guy named Willie Lutz. It's probably not. He's kicking the competitions.

Yeah, it's not him, but it's somebody named Willie Lutz who is in first place with 56 points. He's gotten 42 picks right. That is amazing. Congratulations. Is it with one L or two in his first name? Two L's and an IE at the end. And Lutz is L-U-T-Z.

Yeah. It might be Will Lutz. It could be. You never know. He picked Duke. So- I was at a restaurant over the weekend with Mitch Trubisky and Kenny Pickett. You never know. You were? Like you were eating with them?

I wasn't eating with them. I mean, I saw them at another table. You recognized them? They were eating together. You recognize them? Yeah. I mean, picket I imagine at a backwards hat on with long hair. I did have long hair, but no hat. I'd say in any time anybody got near Trubisky, he kind of like went like this and like the Howard in the fetal position.

No, they were there. I might recognize Trubisky. I don't think there's a chance I'd recognize Kenny Pickett. Good for you, Jamie. Okay, Jamie, let's get a picture of three random quarterbacks and see if Azer can tell which one is Kenny Pickett. A picture of water or a picture on the mound? Shut up. All right, listen, speaking of quarterbacks, the Giants signed Jamis Winston. So we're going to talk about that in just a moment. Yeah, anyway, we'll talk about that in a moment here. I want to remind everybody.

The most fun team in the world. So they're going to be great for like four games. I don't know who tweeted it, but someone had a really funny tweet about the Giants drafting Travis Hunter because he can catch all of Jamis' good passes and all of his bad passes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It could tackle on all of his interceptions. Matt Harmon had the tweet of the year though. He, he, he, I can't remember when he sent it out. I think it was during last season. It was after they beat the Colts. Yeah. Right. Like this, this win over the Colts is going to help them not get one of the top quarterbacks and they're going to get Jamis and Malik neighbors is going to get 2000 yards. Yeah. And if they do not get another quarterback, I believe it, but I think they're going to get another quarter 2000 yards. Yeah, and if they do not get another quarterback, I believe it

But I think they're gonna get another quarter 2000 yards. I'll take the under but I know what you're saying Watch CBS Sports HQ is the best way to stay up to date on everything going on right now March madness NBA playoff race NHL playoff race, etc golf big time, you know for golf right now So watch CBS Sports HQ on the CBS Sports app. All right, let's get to those news and notes. And then we'll do the rankings dispute. So the Giants, apparently they still could sign Russell Wilson. Obviously, they got the third pick in the draft, they could draft the quarterback, but they did sign Jamis Winston to a two year, $8 million deal. All right, so Dave, what's your take here on the Giants quarterback situation? The take is, I'm assuming that Jamis is going to be like an

in season bridge quarterback for them and that they will take a rookie quarterback in the draft. I don't know if it'll be in round one or round two. But we will get Jamis maybe for four games, five games. If the quarterback they get stinks, then maybe we'll get them for more. But obviously, we've got this long track record of Jamis Winston finding the receiver that he loves, throwing to him a ton, not caring about turnovers, just going ham. And the end result is that the receiver does exceptionally well. Last year's example, there were two, it was Jerry

Judy, and then David Njoku. When Njoku was healthy, he had some good games with Jamis as well. So I am very optimistic that for the games Jamis starts, Malik neighbors will deliver, maybe even over-deliver to our expectations. But whoever the rookie quarterback is, I think we'll end up playing more. And that'll be the quarterback that we'll want to adjust our rankings to when it comes to neighbors and you know, all those other great wide receivers for the Giants, Darius Slayton, Theo Johnson at tight end. Who else do they have? Wondale. We always forget about Wondale.

He'll stink with Jameis because he doesn't run rots too far downfield. Neighbor's wide receiver for me right now. Same. doesn't run rots too far downfield. Avery's his wide receiver four for me right now. Same. Yeah, so the Giants the last three years, they've thrown for between 3,350 and 3,520 yards. So let's just say like 33,450 yards on average the last three years.

Jamis Winston, his 17 game pace, I got him at seven seasons with six or more starts. 17 game pace, I'll just round up or down. 4,300, 4,350, 5,200, 5,000, 5,400, 3,100 one year with the Saints, he made six starts, he threw 25 times a game. And then last year with the Browns, I think it was seven starts, 49-50.

Like this guy routinely throws for around 5,000 yards per 17 games. It's insane. If he is the week one starter, like guaranteed by the time we're doing fancy drafts, he will be a late round pick for almost everybody in one quarterback. Yeah, because he's been about a low,

like, you know, top 15 kind of quarterback. One year he was top five overall. I think it was like a race for a game. Yeah. He can lose your weeks too though. Yeah, he can. He can have a 300 yard, one touchdown, three pick week. I'm not saying you want to go into your season

with him as your starter, but if he's your backup, that's the type of guy that you can get some value for if you don't have a guaranteed bona fide starter that you like. But just to the point of your stat, Adam, I would be shocked if he's the only quarterback for the Giants this year, because if that's what happens, then Joe Shane and Brian Dable can call U-Haul right now. I think there's a very realistic- And get their move on. That they're not gonna be there next year.

Look, I think, look, if they get Cam Ward, then I don't know that Winston's gonna play at all. But if they don't, and it doesn't seem like, right now it seems like the Titans are gonna stay put and take him, right? I think so, yes. It's kind of what it's looking like. I don't think there's another quarterback in this draft

that necessarily should play ahead of Jameis Winston. I mean, maybe Sanders, but you know how I feel about him. And then Dart, I don't know. So it's not as unrealistic as it looks. And DeVito doesn't throw interceptions, but he doesn't throw anything. So he doesn't do anything. So it's not as unrealistic right now as it might seem.

Two years, $8 million, that's obviously backup money, but he might be their best bet. Unfortunately, it's just that's worse than back of it. Let him start. Yeah, let him start. But if he if he's playing every week, then something very bad has happened to the rookie that they draft. And I would say his best format, Jamis Winston's best format, if you happen to play in this format would probably be a four point per passing touchdown league with negative one for interceptions. Or zero. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm talking about like a realistic format here. But because it's usually either six points and minus two

or four points and minus one or four points and minus two. In four point per passing touchdown minus one for the interception, he was QB 10 per game during his starts last year. In four point per passing touchdown minus one for the interception, he was QB 10 per game during his starts last year. In six point per passing touchdown, Lees with two points down for an interception, he was QB 14 per game. It's a huge difference.

So just something to keep in mind. Pittsburgh seems like they have a good chance to sign Aaron Rodgers. That seems like his most likely destination at this point. I'm gonna wait till something happens before we react to that. The Browns signed former Bears guard Tevin Jenkins. The Chargers signed Tyler Conklin

to a one year, $3 million deal. By the way, Jenkins could be a good player. He's been very injured, but he could be a pretty good player when he's healthy. But does anybody care about Tyler Conklin to the Chargers or Brandon Cooks to the Saints or Michael Gallup to the Commanders? Conklin's interesting. I mean, look at what Will Disley did last year with this

team, you know, so Conklin's had some good moments, um, with the jets and even with the Vikings. And so we could see him as a streamer, you know, depending on how the rest of the off season goes for Los Angeles. But this is an offense that likes to use its tight ends. Quarterback likes to use his tight end, you know, can, you know, go back to just again what Will Disley did last year. And he was somebody that was a low end starter for those weeks when he was, you know, involved and even, what was his name? Stone Smart.

Stone Smart. Yeah. I knew it was something interesting. Stone Smart. You know, so we can look at this. Not somebody you want to draft, but someone to keep an eye on. Brandon Cooks is interesting too. It's almost the same thing as Conklin.

I don't think anybody is going to draft Brandon Cooks, maybe in deeper three receiver leagues, you'll take him to ride your bench. He'll have some boomer bus weeks, but we're going to talk about the Saints offense today. I'm not sure that I'm crazy in love with their passing game. Like some of us might've been before. This hurts Rashid Shaheed. Yeah. I mean, you may be a minute. It'll hurt a lava a little bit. It'll hurt their tight ends a

little bit. I mean, it's going to hurt. I think all, you know, everybody, but it's still, you know, look, he's following his offense coordinator, you know, know so our guy a guy that he has had some time with I think it could be completely irrelevant this guy had 54 targets 26 catches in 10 games he's 30 he'll be 32 years old in September he just might not matter at all Brandon cooks he hasn't been a good receiver for a long time at this point three straight years less than 700 years I mean okay we get yards we'll get yards per game. 53.8, 41.1, 25.9. I don't know. It's certainly possible that he's just at the end of his career and not going to lose that. He's definitely at the end of his career, but you know, it's, this is fantasy versus reality. You know, he's going to just be a pain in the butt for,

you know, the other guys that are there. I hope not. Cause then it's going to make my alive argument. Not so great. The Texans signed offensive tackle, Cam Robinson to a one year deal. Could be worth up to 14 and a half million dollars. They also signed offensive tackle, Trent Brown to a one year deal. That could be worth up to $3 million. So we know the Texans need some help.

Maybe Cam Robinson is the replacement for the army Tuncil. Seems like that's probably a pretty big downgrade. I think that's what they're going to go for. And I don't think it's a great replacement, but it's passable. All right, let's take a quick break and come back. We'll do our rankings disputes. Nico Collins versus Amanra St. Brown in full PPR after this.

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Amanra St. Brown was wide receiver seven per game in full PPR last year. Nico Collins was number nine in full PPR last year. That does include a couple of partial games. He played only 18% of the snaps in week 18. He played like 13% of the snaps in week five. He played like 13% of the snaps in week five, Nico Collins. You take away those two games,

he was actually on pace for 156 targets. And if he gets that, it could be wide receiver one, in my opinion. So I'm going Nico Collins. Dave has Amon Rasayn Brown ahead of Nico Collins. I like Nico. It's gonna be a pretty similar argument to what you're about to hear

when we do AJ Brown versus Drake London. If the targets are even close, I think it's going to be Nico. He is on paper looking at statistics. It might sound crazy. He's arguably the best wide receiver in football in terms of yards per out run, those types of things. The metrics are absolutely eye popping. He is unbelievable.

And he's not on this low pass volume team. The Texans, they have a new offensive coordinator, so take that for what it's worth. But two years under- It'll be the same scheme, just different guy calling the plays. Two years under to make O'Rions, they've been 12th with CJ Stroud,

12th in pass attempts, I think both years. Whereas the Lions have been ninth and 16th. So maybe the pass attempts will be similar. There's just no target competition. And another thing I'd say about Nico Collins is maybe I'm making an excuse for him, but his numbers before the hamstring injury in week five were absolutely unbelievable. He came back, he just wasn't as good. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't nearly as good.

And I just think, you know, no Tankdell, no Stefan Diggs or maybe a little bit of Tankdell. You tell me, you're getting 150 or more targets from Nico Collins and I am all over it. Whereas, Jameson Williams emerging a little bit, Sam Laporte is a factor. They at times last year were extremely run heavy, Detroit. So that's why I'm going Nico over St. Brown.

And even though all those things did happen in Detroit, Amun Ras St. Brown averaged 1.1 more PPR points per game than Nico Collins. And then you're gonna throw back at me, well, Nico left a couple of games and that's why it happened. Maybe so, but we still started him for those games. I think they should count against Nico. I can't stand it.

They should, they absolutely should. They do count in the standings, Dave, but they don't count in terms of what does this guy do when he's healthy? That's what the whole point of it is. Okay, fine. I'm still going to take the risk, and this isn't me sliding Nico.

It's not like I'm calling Nico a bust. They're two spots apart. Nor is this me sliding St. Brown. No, yes it is. You hate him on St. Brown. Everybody knows it. I can't wait to tell them. But St. Brown, consistency is going to be something that I'm going to lean on in off season rankings. 18.7 PPR points per game in 2024, 20.7 in 2023, 16.7 in 2022 with 18.2 in his last nine. This is a wide receiver that you can use Inc for 18 plus PPR points per game with.

Nico will be close to that and I agree that Nico is the only show in town. Christian Kirk is not going to be a major threat to him. At least certainly not as anywhere near or more major, I should say, than what Stefan Diggs would have been if Diggs were healthy. Remember, Diggs is a little bit older now. But I think Amonra St. Brown is just a little bit safer. I still think he's going to be the top target gainer in Detroit. And I still view him as an elite fantasy receiver that, I view both these guys as elite fantasy receivers. They both had over 8 targets per game last year. But St. Brown to me just has the consistency factor on his side.

All right, Jamie, what do you think? I think this comes down to how you want to draft because they're both most likely going to be awesome. They're both most likely going to be if they stay healthy first round picks. But I do think that if Nico, I think you said, you both said it the way that I feel about both these guys. I think if they both have the same amount of targets, Nico Collins will be better. But I also think that Dave said it best,

like there's the safety and consistency factor of Amara St. Brown. So if you are looking for, I think, the higher ceiling, you're gonna probably lean toward Nico. If you're looking for just as high a ceiling, but maybe not the same heights, you know, if that makes sense, then Amara St. Brown is as steady-eddy as you come. I remember writing this last year

when I did the magazine story of the seven best wide receivers, the eight best wide receivers that we were looking at. The safest one by far was Amara St. Brown. And it's probably the same thing right now. Once you get past Chase and Jefferson, you can make arguments against CDLAM. Even Jefferson, you can make arguments against because of JJ McCarthy,

but you make arguments against CD Lamb, Pukka Nakua, Nico Collins. You know, I mean, there's arguments against all these guys. There's very little arguments against Amama or St. Brown. Yes, Jameson Williams may have a bigger role. Yes, there's an office coordinator change. Yes, Sam Laporte is there. So he did all this last year aside from office coordinator change. Yes, Sam Laporta is there. So he did all this last year, aside from the coordinator change. He was a part of the Jameson Williams explosion, if you want to

call it that, you know, a breakout. It was part of Sam Laporta's second half, you know, consistency. He said it was the run game at times. I mean, these are all things that he's dealt with the last two years. So for me right now, I still lean on Amara St. Brown. They are back to back. So for me right now, I still lean Amon Ra St. Brown. They are back to back. Depending on what the rest of the Texans off season looks like, I may go Nico Collins because that's just the way I tend to draft is I'm looking for a little bit more upside.

So I think again, if Nico and Amon Ra St. Brown have the same amount of opportunities, Nico will be a little bit better. Yeah, oh, I don't even think it'll be close. It won't be close in terms of yards. I mean, that's the thing. Two of the last three years, Amanra St. Brown's been like a 1250 yard kind of guy

per 17 games. 2022, he really busted out. How many yards did he have that season, Dave? He had like 1500 yards or something, right? I'd have to look it up. 2023, sorry. You know, he was on pace for 1600 yards. So if he can be that kind of player, then it's close. If he's more like the 1300 yard guy per 17 games or last year,

he was 1263. That's where I see the edge for Nico Collins is in yards. And even though Amon Arasui Brown is very safe, I also think Nico Collins is extremely safe. I don't really see a downside argument for Nico to you. No, but it's again, there's a track record here of what Amara St. Brown has done. You could say, Nico had just has the same resume. Oh, I think it's incredible that Nico had 17.6 PPR points per game last year, given all the issues in Houston, the offensive line being bad CJ shroud, not taking a step forward in a second year. They didn't play many games for both Tanktel and Stephanie's were healthy, but there were a majority where one of the two were on the field.

tell Anne-Sophie Ndiggs were healthy, but there were a majority where one of the two were on the field. And he still came through for pretty good numbers. If you're going to nitpick with Nico and say, Well, the offensive line might still be a problem and Stroud might not be better. Well, OK, what does that mean? Does that mean he's going to be at like 16.5? Is that going to be what his floor is going to be? I don't think, I think people would be a little disappointed if they took Nico in round 1. And that's what he ended up doing. And I think Amon Ross St. Brown could certainly best that number, but that's still pretty good for a fantasy contributor. So I don't think I don't think there's a legitimate downside case for either of these wide receivers. All right, let's go to our next one. Is AJ Brown versus Drake London. They are back to back in Dave's rankings. This was one where I kind of I may have changed my mind while I was doing the research because it's I think it's actually easier to make a case for Drake

London than AJ Brown in full PPR. However, I'll go ahead and play devil's advocate. I will take AJ. I don't even start really at Devil's advocate, but I'll take AJ Brown over Drake London and here's why. I just think he's so much better than Drake London, which again is not a slight to Drake London, but AJ Brown is another guy. If he were in a, if AJ Brown were on the Vikings, he'd be unstoppable. I could see him going for like 1800 yards and 13 touchdowns.

He's that good of a player. The only thing that holds him back is low pass volume. We're not seeing that from Drake London. What we're seeing from Drake London is like a nice solid player. He doesn't make a lot of big plays. I talked about his Yak so much last year. It was a little bit better, but still pretty bad last year.

He just doesn't do a lot after catching the ball. So I think he'll get more targets than A.J. Brown. I think he's gonna need probably 20 more targets than A.J. Brown to be better than A.J. Brown. And I expect the Eagles to pass a lot more. Fun fact, not more than the Falcons, but more than they did last year. Fun fact, these two teams, believe it or not,

even though the Falcons threw the ball a decent amount, these two teams were last in the NFL in green zone pass rate last year. The Falcons, oddly enough, they just became super run heavy when they got inside the 10 yard line. Drake London led the NFL with an unbelievable rate of percentage of his team's targets in the green zone. He had over 50%. He had like 54% of his team's targets in the green zone. That was number one in the NFL. AJ Brown has also led the NFL in that stat. He did it in 2022. But anyway, if the Falcons throw the ball more, they become a better passing touchdown team,

then we've got huge upside for London. So I did find it kind of easy to make the case for London, but I'm gonna stick with AJ Brown, Dave, just because I think he is a superior player, he is a truly elite alpha wide receiver, and even last year, which wasn't a great year for him, he still averaged more fantasy points per game, just barely, than Drake London in PPR. 16.7 to 16.5, you're right.

And that's with Drake London having nearly two targets per game more than AJ Brown. But if I multiply two targets per game by 17 games, Adam, you said it, that if, if Drake London is getting 20 more targets over the course of a season than AJ Brown, he's going to be better in full PPR. And this is absolutely format dependent. Half PPR, non-PPR, I'm making a beeline to AJB. But Drake London, with, with Penix throwing to him, I think it's going to end up being a very good thing for him. I think he's going to be the trusted No. 1 guy. And I think he's going to continue to see high target volume. You are not drafting Drake London for his athleticism. You are drafting him for the passing volume. You are drafting him for the Green Zone target share, like you talked about. Certainly that can lead to some good touchdown production. But if it's a league where

catches don't count as much and big plays count more, then A.J. Brown's your guy. Completely format dependent between these two, but in full PPR. I will lean toward London because I think I'll get more targets. And you mentioned that there is a little bit more upside, I would say, with London based on the target volume. And if the quarterback is better than what the Falcons had for most of last year, then London can certainly outperform AJB. I actually, I don't know that I agree with the upside take. I still think Brown has more upside because if the Eagles can get back to passing for over 4,000 yards last year they passed for about 3,500 yards. The two years before that is like 4,300 yards forward 4,000 yards. Then I think AJ Brown has has more upside than London but

but he probably has more downside too just because of the offense, but okay, Jamie, what do you think, uh, Brown or London? Uh, they're back to back. So like both these guys a lot, but I lean Brown more sort more than, uh, London based on the upside, I do think that if Brown does what he's capable of doing, then he's, he's top five upside. I don't think Drake London has that. I think what we saw from last, what we saw last season from Drake London is kind of his ceiling and you know I'm a big Drake London guy from from last year, but I don't know how much better he can be just based on

Everything that's going on with this team everything that's going on with him We still don't know what the rest is receiving core is gonna look like because I think they had somebody in the draft but in terms of The downside if panic, like this could be bad for Drake London. You know, there's a lower floor, I think, for what he can be. Like last year was kind of the floor, I think, for AJ Brown. And I think we all kind of share the same sentiment. Like we expect the Eagles to be a little bit more pass happy simply because the run game I don't think will be as successful for what Saquon Barkley

is coming off of. You know, all the work, the, the, the history of 2000 yard rushers, you know, there will be a step back here. So especially if Barkley misses any time, then it's more on Jalen hurts more on the passing game. And I think that favors AJ Brown's ceiling. Um, I just think there's, there's a lot another year that he can get to or Jake London can't. So I think that that's an important direction that we could send this conversation to. If do we really believe how much do we really believe that Saquon takes a big step back next year? Because if we're

really buying into Saquon, not being as efficient, maybe missing some time, you know, 28 year old running back coming off of 482 touches over the season and the postseason. Yeah. Like if we really believe that, then I think that it's a no-brainer that the Eagles will throw more. And that would obviously help A.J. Brown. And now here I am playing Devil's Advocate the other way. I just quickly did this. Maybe I wish I had done this before I did my rankings. Remember how in week 18, Penix started for Atlanta, meaningless game, Mooney didn't play, Drake London had 40.7 PPR points. If we if we Azer stat that game out, he averaged 15 PPR points per game flat. So I think if you do buy into London, I think you have to buy into PENX as well. And what if PENX pulls a Stroud? You know, we'll learn about PENX during the preseason and the lead-up and what the reports are like coming out of Atlanta. But if we believe two things, one, PENX isn't a lock to get better, and two, Saquon

Barkley is going to get worse and the Eagles are gonna have to change their philosophy a little bit. Then this is a U-turn. We should go with AJ Brown before Drake London in all formats. This is where Brown's finished per game in three seasons with Philadelphia. Seventh per game in 2022 in both non and full PPR.

2023, he actually had 158 targets in 17 games. He was wide receiver 12 per game in non PPR, wide receiver seven per game in full PPR. 2023, he actually had 158 targets in 17 games. He was wide receiver 12 per game and non PPR, wide receiver seven per game and full PPR, only caught seven touchdowns. In 2024, he was 10th per game and non and 13th per game and full PPR. Whereas London last year was, I think, wide receiver 14 per game and full PPR.

And that was the question, you know, Jamie, you said maybe he hit his ceiling last year. That was kind of the question I had about London. Can he be better? I mean, I think he obviously can if Pennix has a really good season. But also that stat about them being so run heavy, the lowest pass rate in the green zone, so weird. And the second fewest green zone pass attempts, which was, which it was just, I don't really get that imbalance, but I mean, obviously get the ball to Bijan.

I get that, but it was just, I don't know. I just thought maybe there was a chance for more touchdown opportunities for him. But that being said, he did catch nine touchdowns last year. It's not like he'd had a bad touchdown year. Do we know how many of them were like longer than 20 yards? No, but probably not that many. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm starting to really, I'm

changing my mind as we sit here. Yeah. You know, I don't like doing that. I'm sorry that I'm doing that. But it's kind of how I'm feeling. I think the thing with with London is it's just a wildcard. If Panicics is awesome Then London will benefit in a huge way and probably be better than AJ Brown But it's it's again. It's a wild card. I think what you saw from London last year is probably I

Don't say easy to replicate but it's Some something I think that can be done again like AJ Brown's just been so solid and still in his prime and again you know depends on how you view what the Eagles offense will look like next year. All right let's get to our next one here. Real quick London's longest touchdown last year was from 30 yards out it was a deep ball from Cousins against the Raiders in week 15. All of his other, a touchdown from 21 yards out from 20 yards out Everything else was in the red zone. I'm sorry, Jim cousins played in week 15. He did that was his last game He got benched that game

I think or I don't he threw like 17 passes that game and four touchdowns inside the 10 for Drake London last year So the the two stats that again, I wish I'd seen this before I came on the show, but it's the offseason It's okay. Only four green zone touchdowns for Drake London. That's not good. 15 PPR points per game. If you take out his biggest game in a meaningless game without his number two wide receiver, I think the better picture, Jamie, to paint on Drake London is he's probably more of a

15 to 16 PPR point per game guy. And if I'm going gonna play the consistency card, like I did earlier with the Monroe St. Brown, I've got to do it with AJ Brown too. 16.7 PPR points per game or more each of the last three years, it's Brown. All right, all right. That's the thing was we're gonna keep seeing things

that we didn't know about. There's a lot of stats out there, a lot of information. That's why I really like digging into these players. All right, Chris Olave versus Devontae Smith. I don't think they were particularly close in your rankings. If you have them in front of you, I think they were four or five spots apart. They were, I like Olave better than Devontae Smith. I've gone first each of the first two times. So tell me why you have Devontae Smith ahead of Chris Olave. Well, let's start with the theme that I've been using quite a bit today, and that's consistency. Devontae Smith's been 14 to 15 PPR points per game each of the last three years. There's been an inconsistency factor with how he's delivered those numbers. But it's still something that he's done. There's obviously a target crunch there that that has slowed

Devontae Smith down. But he's gotten the job done. We're talking about 2 players that you'll draft as No. 3 wide receivers. And we can make the argument that on paper Chris Olave should be, he's got the upside to be better than a No. 3 receiver. But he, he's really only shown that in bits and pieces over the past 2 years, or past 3 years. He's been in the NFL 3 years. This is a talent who I liked a lot, but I can't ignore what I've seen from Olavi over the last 3 seasons. His best season was 14.5 PPR points per game. We've seen, we've seen Devontae Smith, he had 14.2, 2 seasons ago. Last year, Chris Olavi, OK, it's, it's, it's a new offense. Derek Carr's there. This should be the year where Olavi of a gets a lot of work becomes the number one guy. He had seven plus targets in two games last year. Um,

he didn't play a full season, obviously because of the concussions, he averaged five and a half targets per game and didn't even average 10 PPR points per game. I can't unsee that. You got to get in. He had two games where he played like 12% or less of the snaps. I know, but you can't ignore what happened in those games and say that it's fluky. It could happen again. No, but if you're going to tell me how many targets he has per game, that's the whole point. So go ahead. So if you take those out, what's the number? 44 divided by six, it's like

seven and a half, seven targets. All right. And so the one thing that I did not 44, 42, exactly six, seven per game, seven per game. If you could guarantee me that a lobby is going to be north of seven targets per game, I'd feel a lot better about it. But this is still an offense that I've got questions about from the offensive line to the quarterback who who's backing up the quarterback? Does Derek Carr play a full season? I don't have questions anymore about the play caller. Kellen Moore, I'm good with it. But I just, I don't want to buy into Chris Olave for a fourth straight season, when I know that Devonte Smith has given me some consistency. And going back to what we talked about 7 minutes ago with Philadelphia's offense, if they're not going to run as much in 2025, that means they're going to throw more. Maybe Dal Scottard isn't even as big of a factor in the offense. He

might not even be on the team. That would kick down the door for Devante Smith to have a huge year. And so I'm just, I'm taking the No. 3 receiver that's gotten the job done for 3 straight years in a, in a better offense. done for three straight years in a better offense? I like Olavi better because I think he'll lead his team in targets and I don't think we've seen the best of him. And yes, only seven targets per game. I mean, that's not even good. Like seven targets per game in his six healthy games. But I would say we have to remember that Derek Carr, like Derek Carr played in five of those games, Derek Carr through 27.2

passes per game. And there were two blowouts, two blowout wins. There was one game where they had the ball for 20 minutes. So they will throw more. But I won't go on my big long spiel. I'm going to send it over to Jamie. Now you tell me Chris Olavi or Devontae Smith. Well first off, if Dave's scenario plays out in Dallas, Goddard, it's not there. Nobody's taking Chris Olavi over Devontae Smith. So I do question- Unless they add somebody else along the way. I gotta say, I don't know. It's very weird because obviously we know the deal with Devontae Smith. He's not that good when everyone's healthy and he's amazing. He's not that productive when everyone's healthy.

Yeah, he's not that productive. He's amazing when someone's out. But like Dallas Goddard has such a small role. It's not like Goddard is a huge sign he's kiddle and this is a you know, there is that track record that The other guy steps up I don't think Dallas Goddard is leaving the team so I this is kind of a okay, okay I I do think that again This is probably gonna come down to how you draft if you're looking for more upside if Chris Olavi hits in his offense versus Devontae Smith being what he's been in the same offense based on what has happened to him a lot of a ceiling is higher but to Dave's point we just haven't seen it

from a lot of it yet so if you're gonna take the more safe that you're gonna take the safer route than Devontae Smith is a safer route because there'll be some games where AJ Brown or Dallas Goddard or as we saw last year both of them miss then Devontae Smith has top five upside when those guys are there he's more of like a top 25 to 30 receiver which is why we're drafting him as a number three receiver. Crystal Lave has the opportunity and the ability to be a top 15 caliber wide receiver but it just has been small sample sizes of that. So, you know, if I hit two home runs with my first two receivers in the three receiver

league, I'm probably going to take Chris Olave to try and see if I hit three home runs. You know, if I don't have the best two picks at wide receiver because, oh, I just missed out on a guy or went running back, running back, and now I don't have the receivers that I like, well, Chris, then it depends again how you draft. You know, does Olave make more sense because you're trying to hit the home run, or you want to get a little bit more of a safety factor. So I like a lot of a slightly better but they're back to back again, it's very interesting that these are the receivers that we've taken. But it's like 20 wide receiver, 26, 27, or 25 and 26, you know, not ranked as starters. I just think that if a lot of a finally

can get everything together, he's got a chance to be pretty special. Yeah, I don't know if I still feel like he has a chance to be pretty special, but I do feel like he has a chance to be top 15 wide receiver. And it feels like Devontae Smith, unless AJ Brown gets hurt, can't crack the top 15 because he never has per game. I think I think 15th per game was his best season. We just, let's just take a look at their best seasons. Both of them. It was their second season in the league, 2022, Devontae Smith, 95 catches, 1200 yards, seven touchdowns on 136 targets.

Chris Olavi said he had 18.1 in his final eight games with Goddard Outer barely playing that year. So that's an example of Goddard being limited slash out what Devontae Smith could do. Yeah. No, I know it's been the case, but Goddard had been a bigger fan. That's why I was optimistic about Smith going into the last year. It's like, I didn't really think Goddard's getting old. He's not that productive anymore. He's not what he used to be. So I really thought Smith was gonna take that step. He didn't. Do you know what Smith was in 2023 without Goddard?

He was terrific, right? 21.4 PPR points per game, nine targets per game. It's three weeks sample size, but three weeks without Goddard. And what did he do in two weeks without AJ Brown? He had two games, like seven catches, weeks two and three. You can look it up.

He was great. I mean, I've got it right here. 17.3 PPR points per game in 10 games where either Brown or Goddard did not play. Yeah. And, but in six games where they were all healthy or seven games where they were all healthy, he had two games with double digit PPR fantasy points.

So yeah, I don't know. We kind of know what he is. Olave has not had a better season than Smith yet. That's the biggest argument against Olave is like he hasn't even done what Devontae Smith did because he doesn't score any freaking touchdowns. It's so frustrating. Smith gets you seven touchdowns a year.

Olave would love that, but things can change. You know, things change with McLaurin. That was my comp for Olave. I thought he was basically a younger version of McLaurin. We just get to eight, seven, eight touchdowns. He's gonna out-produce Devontae Smith. I feel confident. I don't know that it'll happen,

but if he does get there, he'll be better than Smith. I'm just gonna take the guy who I think is gonna be number one on his team in Targets. And even though Hertz is a better quarterback than Derek Carr, raw passing numbers, just because of volume, might favor the Saints. All right, let's take a break. We'll come back. We got one more. We got Marvin Harrison Jr. versus Jameson Williams after this. Breaking news coming in from bet 365 where every nail biting overtime win, breakaway, pick six, three

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What do you know about the happy face killer? He's my father. about gambling visit connects Ontario.ca You don't see how the birds sing to you. Anna Lee Ashford and Dennis Quaid star. I am not responsible for what my dad did. The score and how you hoped. Happy Face, new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. Marvin Harrison Jr. or Jameson Williams, how about Jamie? You want to start? Who do you like better here? Marvin Harrison Jr., but it's close. You know, again, I think you're looking at the guy who could hopefully be the alpha on his team, and that's saying a lot because Trey McBride is pretty good.

Whereas Williams could easily be third on his team, you know, based on how Laporta scores touchdowns and Amara St. Brown and what he does. Run game obviously going to favor Detroit as well. I'm just more hopeful that Marvin Harrison lives up to the, you know, prospect that he was coming into the league. I was encouraged to hear what Mike Renner said when we had him on last week about Marvin Harrison and just the ability for him to hopefully have a year or two bounce back season. I certainly don't think he'll be as bad as he was in the rookie season. Whereas Jameson can disappear at times.

I just like the upside of what Marvin Harrison will hopefully be. You know, again, it's more about who's got a chance to be the alpha in his offense. And I don't think Jamison Williams can do that with the guys that are in front of him. Yeah, Dave, this is kind of the same argument as a lobby versus the day. So very, I'm also taking Marvin Harrison Jr. And it really seems like this off season, Marvin Harrison Jr.'s production is a huge priority for the Cardinals.

Like, you know, Kyler Murray has basically said, like, we have to get better, the two of us, we're gonna work on it, we're gonna work on our chemistry, this and that. So I'm hopeful for a bounce back. And it's not even St. Brown. Like he is, you know, obviously he was, it's the Porta's presence too, that gets me with Jameson Williams, it's not even St. Brown. Like he is, you know, obviously he was, it's the Porta's presence too.

That gets me with Jameson Williams, especially in the red zone. Jameson Williams is not much of a factor there. So that's why I'm going Harrison over Williams. I think Williams ceiling is a little bit capped by the target competition. Uh, it's, this is very much in pencil. We know that if Marvin Harrison comes to training camp and he's a little bit more refined, I honestly, I don't even know if refined is the right word. He's gotta be faster.

He's gotta play faster. If he can do those things and earn more than the 6.8 targets per game that he had last season, then this is a slam dunk for Harrison. He's just gotta do it. We've gotta learn about it. We've gotta see it. And that's the story. Like if he can end up being the top target getter amongst everybody in Arizona, and then be a factor on, you know, longer

plays like Jameson Williams, it's a piece of cake. If it's not happening, if he's not separating with speed, if he's not going to get that huge target volume, If there's talk about another wide receiver in Arizona, if there's talk of the run game being a bigger factor for the Cardinals, it's going to be a little bit harder to trust Marvin Harrison in the second year. Because if he, his floor, I mean, look, both these guys could have a low floor, but I would rather have the receiver with the smash game potential of Jameson Williams, where he can have 4 targets, 2 catches, 150 yards and a touchdown, and then come back the next week and still get good volume the next week, and give me a 6 for 88, something like that. We saw that from him a bunch of times toward the end of the year, which was when Sam Laporte started to get more involved in that offense. And I think there's another step that Jameson Williams can take as far as being more efficient on the target volume that he has. I don't

have to worry about Jameau's speed either. And we saw enough from Jameson Williams to know that he improved as a route runner. He improved his technique on the field. He's somebody who I think can come back. And I don't know if he can have a better year necessarily. He was at 14.2 over the course of the season, but maybe a little bit more consistent. And if Marvin Harrison just doesn't take that second year leap, then Jameson Williams will be the guy. You know what's interesting about this conversation is that I'm not really convinced that Marvin Harrison Jr.

is a better player than Jameson Williams. It's like, I've got conviction that AJ Brown is a better wide receiver than Drake London, which again, not a slight on London. I just, Brown's amazing. Right. I feel confident that Nico is better than St. Brown, even though St. Brown is great. I mean, I feel, I just love Nico. I don't know. Jameson might be better. Jameson's really, really good. That's true. I've been playing fantasy for many years. I've been doing analysis for many years. The one thing I will say is that opportunity trumps talent when it comes to fantasy football and who you'd want to start. And so that goes back to, yeah, Marvin Harrison might not, he's, he's never, Marvin Harrison is never going to be faster than Jameson Williams. He will never be as agile or explosive. But if he's going to see two more

targets per game, and he's going to work on his craft and, again, take that second year jump, then he'll, he'll be the better receiver for fantasy. OK. jump, then he'll be the better receiver for fantasy. Okay. I just don't know if I'm not ready to call that yet, which is why Jameson's ranked ahead of Marv. All right, Marv. Marv. What's the matter, Marv? Are you afraid? Okay. Home alone. It's home alone. So we have 1300 people in the bracket challenge.

1300 brackets. I am in 173rd place. This is gonna be great. Go ahead. Jamie is in 1300 in first place because he forgot to hit submit. That's not good. Dave, what about you? I think I'm in like 700th place with two of my final four teams gone.

Let's see where I rank it. But I didn't make any of my picks. Yeah. Who did make your picks? AI. AI. I don't think AI is perfected yet, At least not when it comes to the NCAA tournament AI had Marquette and Yukon in my final four.

So I figured I couldn't do any worse than last year. And I'm, I was a year to, uh, a year too late, early, a year too early on saying that the ACC wasn't any good. This bracket. Oh, this guy didn't even finish his bracket. The guy in last. SEC got what? Eight of the sweet 16?

Something like that. They're great. Did they really? The big 10, I feel like has had the, the big 10 went eight and oh, I think in the first round. Or they had the most wins without a loss in tournament history. It's actually been great. It's

been a great tournament. We have Dan Schneier coming on on Wednesday. I'm gonna tell him about Saturday night. I went to a sports bar and watched the game, the Wisconsin game, with a Wisconsin grad named Dan. It wasn't him. We'll talk about that awesome story. Dan was probably there. He just left you and you. Left you alone. Yeah. He left me with his brother who had no interest in talking to me. Okay, we will talk to you on who had no interest in talking to me. Okay, we will talk to you on Wednesday on Fantasy Football Today. Thanks everybody. See you later.