Fantasy Football Today - Rankings Disputes! Plus a lot of NFL News (07/27 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

Nominate us on PodcastAwards for the Sports category https://www.podcastawards.com/app/signup/ We start with the latest NFL news! Ronald Jones is expected to be the TB starting RB, so should you draft him ahead of Devin Singletary, Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson and the rest of that group (2:48)? We also give you the latest COVID news (8:00) and more ... Beginning our rankings disputes with Kenyan Drake vs. Travis Kelce (14:55). Do you go with the safety of Kelce or the upside or Drake? Then we debate Mike Evans vs. Allen Robinson (21:21) and Ben Roethlisberger vs. Jared Goff (24:55). Are we too high on Roethlisberger considering we don't know how he'll do without Antonio Brown? ... Two more debates including Chris Carson vs. the elite QBs (32:30) and Tarik Cohen vs. David Montgomery in PPR (37:50). And we conclude our show with some finality on our "sitting your DST on Monday night" debate from Friday (44:40). Find out what our listeners think ... Email us at [e-mail] 'Fantasy Football Today' is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Castbox, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Follow the new FFT Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/FFToday Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @YardsPerGretch, @BenSchragg Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCviK78rIWXhZdFzJ1Woi7Fg/videos Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This is Fantasy Football Today from CBS Sports. On his way to the end zone. I'll tell you what, that was a spectacular play. It's time to dominate your fantasy league. What a play. Off to the races.

Touchdown. Oh, he's done it again. Now here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, Heath, and Ben. Would you rather have Kenyon Drake or Travis Kelsey, David Montgomery or Tariq Cohen in PPR? How about Mike Evans or Allen Robinson? How about salty Keenan Allen or unsalted Keenan Allen? Apparently he's fired up about something on Twitter.

Welcome to the show. Hope you had a great weekend. It is Monday, and we are here on Fantasy Football today with some ranking disputes before training camp. Everybody have a good weekend? Dave, Jamie, Heath? Yes. We are ready. Bring on training camp. Bring on

two weeks of players jogging. Adam, the start of FFT on CBS Sports HQ is Monday afternoon. Yeah, it's a big day. Want to tell us more about it? Well, every day from now until eternity, we will be on CBS Sports HQ at 12 o'clock Eastern, which is our usual time slot. We're going for 30 minutes to start. My guess is by Tuesday, we'll be going for an hour, but we're going for 30 minutes to start and should be a lot of fun.

This is going to be a Dave, Heath and Jamie week of five guys we're targeting and five guys we're avoiding. That will be starting on Tuesday. So it should be a lot of fun to see which guys that we're all going to be going after in drafts. And since I'm not going to be on the show, I must be one of the five that they are avoiding. Heath, it took Heath eight minutes to talk on our latest episode that he was on.

Maybe dive in. Heath, how is everything good over there? Are you feeling good? Yeah, I got refreshed, went camping for the weekend, did some swimming in a fresh spring, and I'm fully ready for the eternity. Okay. So what's Keenan Allen mad about?

He is mad that he was, I guess, lower on the top 100 NFL list that started rolling out on sunday so he uh he tagged a few wide receivers uh tyree kill chris godwin and mike evans and he said they may be faster than me but they're not better receivers uh and something about his separation being better so um then he said he's the best wide receiver in the AFC West. Okay. Well, we like the chip on the shoulder.

I like the confidence and a lot of news and notes to get to today. Then those rankings disputes and your emails, fantasy football at cbsi.com. Plus we will finally, we'll settle. We will put to bed this debate that I just can't believe is so lopsided right now about being able to sit your DST. We'll just kind of rehash what we talked about on Friday. Can you sit your DST if you're nursing a lead on Monday Night Football?

Really sit anybody. But first news and notes, Ronald Jones expected to be the starting running back for Tampa Bay. So if I took Ronald Jones ahead of Le'Veon Bell and David Johnson and Devin Singletary, would you make fun of me? No. Probably. Make fun of you? No.

I think that's a little too soon, just given the uncertainty of what that backfield could be. It's also in the same report that Dario Gumbuale is going to be the third down back. So if he's going to be playing on passing downs, then you know Ronald Jones could be limited in that regard. And there's still Keyshawn Vaughn looming. Now there are 170 touches that are vacant from what Peyton Barber had a year ago. I'm very excited about Ronald Jones. I think, you know, again, given the circumstances of what the

off season has been for what these rookies are going to be dealing with, I think he's clearly the best Tampa Bay running back, but to take him ahead of those other guys, just knowing what their track record has been, the offenses that they play in as well, and some of the competition that those guys are dealing with, I think Jones could be better than him. I would not be surprised, but I still think it's safer to take those other guys first. I'm taking him in non-PPR ahead of those guys.

I'm doing it now. After talking to his trainer, learning what his regimen has been this offseason, the fact that he's been more focused on football and learning what went wrong in his past, and the whole story is up on CBS sports.com. I'm buying in. I think he's got potential to finish as a top 12 running back.

I don't have to draft him that way, but I'll take him as a number two to begin the year. Knowing that he's got potential to be a number one. That's a non PPR. PPR is a little bit lower. I would take the past catching back. So we're talking about now, Dave, obviously you spoke to his trainer. It's a great story. Everybody should read it on, on CBS sports.com. Thank you. Le'Veon Bell's trainer has been talking him up and everything he's been doing

this off season. I would imagine David Johnson has been working out and getting ready to go. You know, it's one of those things where, and I get where you're coming from. Look, you know, you have the, the, the conversation that you had and, and, and that's, that's going to, I think, weigh on your decision-making process because we all go through that. But I would,

I would imagine that all these other guys are in the best shape of their lives, doing things that they're going to be doing to be in, in the best possible condition going into the season. And so, you know, I, I, I don't want people to be swayed by, you know, just, just the thought of he's the only one working out. I guess that's the point I'd like to make. Sure. But I would just say that the trainer was able to explain what Ronald Jones was doing wrong and that what Ronald Jones has fixed, not just this offseason, but last offseason.

And there's been a lot of talk about the weight gain. And we've talked about weight gain before on the podcast. And usually it's not good. But he actually convinced me that a lot of the bad weight gain has to do with food and what you're actually feeding yourself. And it seems to me, look, the trainer is also his chef and he's feeding Ronald Jones healthy stuff. Jones isn't cheating off the diet. And there's evidence of Ronald Jones putting on weight and doing better already. It happened last year.

So I think he's got a great, he added less weight this off season. They did last off season and he's running just fine. Now he's his football IQ has improved like his past protection. They've worked on it every day in the film room and on the field. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in training camp and in inner squad scrimmages, whatever we hear about in Tampa Bay. I think he's got a great shot to be 1,300 total yards this year. Heath, hi.

Hey, what's going on? Heath, so you want players, you want running backs on great offenses. Tampa Bay finished third in scoring last year. But oddly enough, here are the top five offenses last year. Baltimore, San Francisco, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, and Kansas City. In non-PPR, only one of those teams had a top 15 running back, and that was Baltimore with Mark Ingram.

Now, San Francisco, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, they just didn't have a guy that got enough work. And then Camara was ninth in non-PPR, but 17th in PPR. It was just a weird year where the highest scoring teams did not, they kind of went running back by committee in a lot of cases. But at the same time, Bucs were third in scoring last year. They should be a high-scoring offense. I mean, that's got to be exciting if you're drafting Ronald Jones, right?

I mean, how much of that is a factor for you? Yeah, I mean, that definitely helps. I was going to say, like, I made big adjustments or lots of adjustments, mostly small adjustments on Thursday and Friday just kind of with the new information we have about training camp in the preseason. And Jones is now for me ahead of Cam Akers ahead of DeAndre Swift he's ahead of all the rookies besides Clyde and

Jonathan Taylor he's right there with Jonathan Taylor like I I think he's going to be in a committee I don't think there's much of a chance Dave's optimism that he could be a top 12 running back I don't get the indication that Tampa Bay is going to have one guy that gets the 300 touches. And I'm not sure he'll be efficient enough to be a top 12 running back without the 300 touches. Like with the Darae news, with the Vaughn draft pick, he's probably going to share. But I do think he could still be a value if you were able to get him in the sixth round as your flex. And then he turns out to be a number two running back. All right.

Next news item. Todd Gurley did not rule out missing the season. Without making this too much about Todd Gurley, we're going to find out soon who's opting out. Already we have one player, which is, well, that's our next item, I guess. Kansas City guard, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif. He's not going to play this season. Chiefs signed Kelechi Osemeli.

They actually played two games without Duvernay-Tardif in 2019. One game was with Matt Moore. I won't count it. The one game with Patrick Mahomes, they scored 32 points and 530 total yards. So that was good. But I think this is now two starting guards from last year, both starting guards that they won't have.

Correct me if I'm wrong there. They also, they did bring in Mike Remmers, who played tackle last year, but he can move back to guard. They signed Osemeli. Anyway, Heath, Chiefs guy, do you but he can move back to guard. They signed O'Sembly. Anyway, Heath, Chiefs guy, do you think this is a big deal for the Chiefs? I don't. I think we should give him a little bit of props. He's a doctor for anyone that doesn't know,

and he's sitting out because he thinks it's more important if he's going to expose himself to be helping people. So shout out to him for being a good human. And not a lot of money, too. yeah, the Chiefs will probably be OK. Now, this makes them more susceptible, I think, to like if they have a covid outbreak for a couple of weeks on the offensive line or if they have a cut one or two injuries, they don't have near as much depth, probably So yeah, that's a concern. Osemele was a great guard in his heyday with the Raiders. So if they can muster that up, then they won't miss a beat at all. I'll stick with the COVID news, I guess. Six players were put on the reserve COVID-19 list.

That could be for testing positive or for being exposed to someone who had the virus. They were not big name players um but we're seeing what's happening with the marlins right now i mean the news just broke right before we went on i think nine players or staff have the virus there they canceled their game for monday we'll see what happens. Uh, it's been three days of baseball basically. And we've got one team with an outbreak and the reds had like four players. So, you know, it's a little scary and you know,

it's hopefully they can contain this and we can learn how to deal with these little outbreaks as they pop up. The Seahawks acquired Jamal Adams and a fourth round pick from the jets for safety. Bradley McDougald, two first round picks and a third-round pick. Jamie, you know, we want, I think for Russell Wilson, we want the Seahawks to have a bad defense.

They were 22nd in scoring defense, 26th in total yards last year. This probably means, almost certainly means no Clowney, but they do get Jamal Adams. Does this have any fantasy impact? I don't think so too much. I mean, you mentioned Clowney. Their pass rush could be absolutely abysmal. So, you know, their secondary looks great on paper right now,

but they're going to be in coverage for probably an extra four or five seconds given how this pass rush could be. So I wouldn't necessarily, you know, alter my view of the Seahawks, but I would put this on the back burner of your mind in case they do decide to be aggressive in bringing another wide receiver um Josh Gordon probably makes the most sense just given what the parties are you know sort of dealing with right now Gordon's still in Seattle Seattle seemingly still wanting another wide receiver but uh Antonio Brown going back on his retirement,

no shock there. You know, that's still a possibility because they're clearly going all in, you know, knowing what they've just given up there. They're trying to win now. And Russell Wilson got congratulations to you on your birth. Your child naming it. When is,

is, is fun. So I think, you know, the Adams trade, giving up the draft picks there, they're going for it. And that means they're going to allow Russell to play a little bit more open free

leaning on your best player quickly Adam. I also think this helps their defense in terms of covering tight ends. They allowed the second most fantasy points per game to tight ends last year. A lot of it was yardage. It wasn't touchdowns. Adams can start to try and take away

Kittle Higby, Dan Arnold slash Max Williams, and everybody else that they play. Okay, Heath, I'm going to give you the rest of the news items. Give me a quick reaction. Here we go. The Dolphins traded for Adam Shaheen. Too bad Ben's not on.

I make a Mike Kosicki joke. Tua Tagovailoa is ready to play. That's exciting. Yeah. Alex Smith has been cleared to play. That's exciting. Yeah. Alex Smith has been cleared to play. By the way, though, on Tua, it makes me nervous about the Dolphins receivers because I don't think he's going to be good for them

like Fitzpatrick will be good for them. Alex Smith has been cleared to play. I'd love to see him back. And Heath Dalvin, Cook's agent, said that Cook did not say he was going to report for camp. Mike Zimmer said that he spoke to Cook. Apparently it was through the running backs coach and he was going to report to camp.

But now his agent's like, nope, not true. What do you think? I think like if he's not there at camp, we have to take this seriously. I've speculated before and I think it's been reported by others that actually know things that this new CBA makes it much more difficult for players to hold out and to skip time. But we've seen running backs do things that were not necessarily in their best financial interest or their best career interest. And so if he's not there at the start of camp, we have to take this seriously. We are going to have an auction that we're going to air.

It's going to be next Tuesday night or Tuesday afternoon, and it will be on Twitch. So we're going to have the visuals for you. We're going to do it on Twitch. And then if you miss that, you can hear that as an episode on this podcast that'll air on Wednesday. But that's next week. So there's no Twitch this week, but next Tuesday, CBS experts, industry guests like Yahoo's Liz Loza. That's going to be next week, August 4th at 3 p.m. on Twitch. We'll keep promoting it,

but follow along as we'll do an auction. It's going to be awesome. And we're back on HQ, as Jamie mentioned, noon to 1230 p.m. Eastern every day, going forward forever. CBS Sports HQ app. Download that, the CBS Sports HQ app, or go to cbssportshq.com. We've got a special Sports HQ app or go to CBSSportsHQ.com.

We've got a special guest coming on Friday's episode. We have Ross Tucker coming on. We're looking forward to that. I also emailed DeMarco Murray because I wanted to find out since he was part of that 2011 rookie class and they're the ones that didn't have an off season because

of the lockout. I tried to reach out to him, see if he'd come on the show, or just respond to my email. So far, I haven't heard back from DeMarco Murray. But we're working on it. I just love that you have DeMarco Murray's email address. No, I'm pretty sure he's the running back's coach for Oklahoma. Oklahoma.

So it's like public. I went on Twitter to find him, and then there's a link to his website, and there's his email there. So I'm trying to get DeMarco Murray to talk about that, what it was like not to have an offseason. I'm working on it, people. I'm working on it. I was going to do the Twitter poll now,

but let's get to the rankings disputes, the crux of the show. Here we go. First ranking dispute, Kenyon Drake versus Travis Kelsey. I used your PPR rankings here. Let's see. So Heath has Kelsey higher. Dave and Jamie

have Drake higher. And I've always mentioned that Travis Kelsey, three years in a row, he's performed like a top 12 wide receiver. But in PPR, he's been a top 12 running back three years in a row as well. Non-PPR, he hasn't been. But in PPR, Kelsey's been a top 12 running back and wide receiver three years in a row. That's amazing. So, Heath, since you are the highest on Kelsey, above Kenyon Drake in your rankings, PPR, why don't you kick it off? A couple of things.

One, I think if you look at what Kelsey's done over the last three or four years, having him compared to the league's average tight end is basically like having an extra half a flex. He outscores the average player at the position by about five or six points per game. He's done it for four years in a row. And this kind of, for me, goes back to the you can't win your league in the first round, but you can go a long ways towards losing it. I feel much more secure in what I'm going to get from Travis Kelsey and that he is going to justify a late first, early second round cost that I do with Kenyon Drake, despite the fact that I do agree that Kenyon Drake has top five running back upside this year.

Go for it, fellas. I understand Heath's perspective completely, and I think if you're trying to play it safe in round one, Kelsey works. But I know that running backs are the thinnest position in fantasy and tight end isn't quite as thin as it's been in the past. And I'm not going to get another Travis Kelsey. At least I don't think I'm going to get another Travis Kelsey in rounds two through 17. He's a unicorn. He's one of a kind. And I still have to veer

toward the running back. I have to start two of them. I know that by the time I get to round six, I'm going to puke when I look at the names of running backs that are available in my draft. And Drake in his eight games with Arizona scored more fantasy PPR points per game than Kelsey did last year. And it wasn't even close. He was in the 19 point per game range and Kelsey was in the 15 point per game range. So I'm, I'm going to take a chance on a running back who should be the every downs guy for Arizona.

It's an offense. It's taking a step forward. He's going to catch a decent amount of passes. He'll get a lot of big plays. He'll have a lot of smash weeks, just like he did last year. And Drake's going to be my pick. I want to cover that running back position.

And I'm not stressing over tight end like I might have last year. What's the ADP for both, Adam? I'm sorry. Okay. Kenyon Drake is going 10th. And Travis Kelsey, 21st. But in our drafts, he goes closer to 10th. Uh,

I'm almost certainly, uh, the way that I'm drafting this year is if I'm picking toward the backend of the first round, pretty much eight on, I'm almost certainly trying to go running back, running back. There's going to be a lot of different circumstances,

three receivers, PPR, um, you know, especially depending on the receivers that fall early in round two, you know, which could be Tyree killer, Julio Jones, where I will consider taking one of those guys because they're awesome. And Kelsey falls into that category. But I think if you're picking in the 21 range, which is where I think we're gonna end up seeing is that if you get one of those top four or five running backs, hopefully Dalvin cook is fine. Then I think you're going to end up seeing is that if you get one of those top four or five running backs hopefully Dalvin Cook is fine then I think you're stretching to take a second running back there because of the guys that are going to fall to you because I think the Drake, Eckler, Chubb, Henry group that we're going to see you know Sanders for everybody but us Jacobs for

probably most most people as well are going to fall somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 through 18. I think that's kind of where they'll live. But I think that's the range that I'm looking for. Kelsey is probably 15 on. Whereas, like, I think Heath and Dave hit on this as well. Kelsey is the floor play, which also has a good ceiling. Drake is the ceiling play, which also has a good floor. Like, I think, you know, clearly the safety factor is with Kelsey. His upside is great.

But if Drake hits at his position, you're going to feel a lot better about that. Okay. I just want to follow up with something Dave said, you know, that you're going to puke when you get to the round six or later running backs. That's where Ronald Jones is. Well, yeah, that's right now where Ronald Jones is. I'm ready to take him in round five now. Um,

okay. So Damian Williams, JK Dobbins, James White, Darius Geis, Keyshawn Vaughn, Tariq Cohen, Marlon Mack,

dolphins, guys, Tevin Coleman, carry on Johnson, Philip Lindsay. Really? I mean, compared to guys like Ken and Drake and everybody else that you'll take in round one and two.

I'm not comparing them to round one. I'm just like, because you could get Travis Kelsey. Yes, you can find a running back in round six. You can find a running back in round 15. It doesn't mean that they're going to be good or as productive as the running backs. I just named some starting running backs, though. The tight ends that you can find in round six

are still going to be good for your fantasy squad. All right. I guess the question becomes, do you want Kelsey and Philip Lindsay, or do you want Kenny Drake and Darren Waller? Right. I would much rather have Drake and Waller. No, no, no, not Lindsay.

I think Kelsey means you have to wait until round six to take a starting running back. That's true, too. Yeah, but if you're just looking at the draft picks that you're spending on each of those positions. Lindsay's way back. Lindsey's like round 10. It would be like Marlon Mack.

Maybe Damian Williams, but Marlon Mack or Tariq Cohen. Tariq Cohen, Kareem Hunt. Travis Kelsey and Ronald Jones or Kenyon Drake and Darren Waller. I'm taking Drake and Waller. Of course, I'm going to probably end up getting Drake and Darren Waller? I'm taking Drake and Waller. Of course, I'm going to probably end up getting Drake and then Jones and then Waller if I go that route. Okay, everybody.

I think Jones is worth a pick before round six. Go ahead, Jamie. So what would you do? Would you do Drake and Waller or Kelsey and Jones? Again, I would take Drake and Waller. All right, Heath? I think I'd take Kelsey and Jones. I was trying to pull up and see if I had a bigger difference

between who I had to beat. I've got a 75-point difference between Kelsey and Waller. It's almost exactly the same between Drake and Jones. Perfect. I love the way that works out. All right, next debate. Mike Evans versus Alan Robinson. Robinson got 154 targets last season.

He was the 11th wide receiver in non-PPR, 8th best in PPR. Evans, on a per-game basis, was top five in both formats, but he missed three games, and he barely played in another one, but I'm still counting that one. Mike Evans or Alan Robinson, dave is higher on evans jamie and heath are higher on alan robinson and they are

back to back in adp right now since july 1st 29th 30th overall wide receivers eight and nine uh jamie i'll give you the first word you have i think yeah you have robinson higher than mike evans again ppr i think robinson's got a chance to lead the nfl in receptions if things go right First word you have, I think, yeah, you have Robinson higher than Mike Evans. Again, PPR. I think Robinson's got a chance to lead the NFL in receptions if things go right for him with better quarterback play. And I'm hoping that, sorry Heath, but I'm hoping Nick Foles is better than Mitchell Trubisky. You know, the receiving core didn't necessarily enhance itself to the degree that I think it's going to be that much better. Whereas the Bucs did. I mean, they bring in Rob Gronkowski. So I look at this opportunity for Robinson

when he's been healthy, he's been good. He's never really had good, great quarterback play. And I don't think Nick Foles changes that. But I just think that the touchdowns could come down for Mike Evans enough that it's close and the reception should be decidedly in Robinson's favor. The yards will be the thing that sways it. But again,

I think if Evans doesn't necessarily have the, the 1400 type of season that he could, and they're both in the 1200 yard range, which I think is possible, then Robinson should be better than him in PPR. So I'll take my chances on the catches in that regard. I think that it's a fantasy points per game play. Last year, Evans had more than two fantasy points per game per week.

Then Allen Robinson, the year before that, it was closer to six per game. And now Tom Brady's the quarterback. And I'm not expecting Tom Brady to turn Mike Evans into Randy Moss. But I think Mike Evans is still going to get his fair share of numbers. And he's not going to catch as many passes as Robinson. And we can talk all day long about how great Robinson is considering the quarterbacks that he's catching passes from, but he doesn't get a ton of touchdowns.

I think Evans will outscore him there. And I think Evans will get a little bit more yardage wise. And there's, there's more downside. I think, I think Robinson's a fine floor play, but even his floor is lower than Mike Evans floor. And I think my Gavin ceiling is higher than Al Robinson ceiling.

So I'm going to take the guy who seems a little bit safer and has more upside versus a wide receiver who is good. I'd love to have Allen Robinson on my team, but I'm going to take Evans ahead of him, man. This is one of those weird things where people that don't play fantasy football, look at us crazy because we say Jameis Winston being replaced by Tom Brady

is worse for his wide receiver, Mike Evans, because I don't think they're going to throw the ball as much, maybe not even near as much as they did last year. They won't have the pick sixes to come back from. They're going to be ahead in more games. They're still going to throw it more than league average. Bruce Arians is still in charge, but they won't throw it as much as they did last year.

The targets are going to come down on a per game basis for Evans. And I anticipate that Brady is going to lean on those little passes through the tight end to the running back. And then he'll take some shots, more shots than he did in new England, but not near as many as Jameis Winston did. So I'm worried about Evans total targets and whether it's Nick Foles being better than Mitchell Trubisky or Mitchell Trubisky being better than he was

last year, the quarterback play will be better this year than it was last year for Robinson. So all that being said, I like Robinson better in PPR and non PPR. I would still take Mike Evans. I agree. Same.

Okay. Let's go to our next debate. Ben Roethlisberger versus Jared Goff. And I guess I have to debate this because you all have Roethlisberger ahead of golf. I'm just going to make the case. I think it you all have Roethlisberger ahead of Goff. I'm just going to make the case. I think it's really against Roethlisberger. I can make a good case for Jared Goff as well.

But the case against Roethlisberger is that I don't think he's really had one very good game without Antonio Brown since Antonio Brown busted out. And he's barely missed time, Antonio Brown. But I was specifically looking at 2017 and 18, and it was three games. Roethlisberger scored 22, 21, and 15 points. And then week one of 2019, he didn't throw a touchdown. So it's an extremely small sample, and I acknowledge that, but it's not good

without Antonio Brown. Actually, I was most surprised that Dave, since you're so low on Juju, I was mostly surprised that you had Roethlisberger ahead of Goff, but I mentioned Goff's touchdown rate super low last year at 3.5. If you gave him a 5.7

touchdown rate, which he had the year before, and it was 5.9 the year before that, 5.7 touchdown rate, you're talking 35 or 36 touchdowns based on his past attempts, which will come down. You're talking about a top five quarterback. He was the number two quarterback, I'm pretty sure, before Cooper Cupps' injury two seasons ago. So I was surprised that you guys had Roethlisberger ahead of Goff. Dave, you in particular. So I see Roethlisberger as a great high upside play. These are both late round types of quarterbacks.

I think I like Roethlisberger's schedule a little bit more than Goff's too. I know week one, they've got the Giants. That's going to be a good matchup for Roethlisberger to show that he's back, especially in prime time. And there have been photos that have been surfacing of him. And he looks svelte. He looks good. He doesn't look like a chubby lumberjack anymore.

He looks like a guy who's actually ready to play some football. And it seems like his arm is back to normal. Hopefully we get a lot more information about that in the days and weeks ahead. And I would just rather spend the pick on Roethlisberger knowing that his receiving core is, I think, I know it's not as established as Jared Goff's receiving core,

but I think it's deep. I think he's got a lot of interesting weapons there. It's one of the reasons why I can't go crazy about Juju. Deontay Johnson's a guy I like. We all can't stand Eric Ebron. He's going to have a couple of big weeks during the year. I think Chase Claypool might only learn four routes, but he could make an impact on those routes.

James Washington is still there and guys can catch passes out of the backfield. And here's a key. The offensive line in Pittsburgh is way better than the offensive line in LA. And when Jared Goff is under some serious pressure, he turns into a baby. He cries.

He gets down in the fetal position and he's done. He was, but he was under pressure and he's some serious pressure. He turns into a baby. He cries. He gets down in the fetal position. And he's done. He was, but he was under pressure and he's bad under pressure every time. It's a crazy, crazy. It is a weird stat. May I take this one? Because you're going to enjoy what I'm about to ask Adam. Yep. So this is a great Azar stat that Ben Roethlisberger

has never performed well without Antonio Brown. How well has Jared Goff performed without Brandon Cooks and Todd Gurley? I think not having Todd Gurley is a good thing. Okay, how well has he performed without Brandon Cooks on the field? I don't know. You don't have that information.

Oh, so you're going to take away one... Wait, wait, wait. I can get that information. And not take away the other guys. I've got that information. Do we really? But he still has Robert Woods and Cooper Cup. Oh, so Roethlisberger doesn't have anybody.

He has Juju. I thought Dave just listed a whole slew of wide receivers that are pretty good. Look, Roethlisberger's old, man. Look, Eli Manning, he went like that. He's old. Phillip Rivers had a horrible season last year. Roethlisberger's that same draft class.

For me, the big thing is, these are guys outside of our top 12 quarterbacks. that same draft class. For me, the big thing is like, these are guys outside of our top 12 quarterbacks in a, if we had two quarterback league rankings, I might rank golf higher. But the last time we saw Ben Roethlisberger play a full season, he was QB three. I don't really think Jared golf has QB three upside.

And it was QB six that same season. And he was, and it all fell apart at the end of the year. I will say this, that last year, if you take away, and again, this is an Adam stat thing.

Good. If you take away the four games where golf combined for 12 fantasy points, it was against three of the best defenses and I'll throw in Chicago. Cause they were obviously still very good. So four of the best defenses in the NFL, Baltimore was one. San Francisco is one. Pittsburgh was one. He was miserable the best defenses in the NFL, Baltimore was one, San Francisco was one, Pittsburgh was one.

He was miserable, clearly, in those four games. The rest of the season, he averaged 23 fantasy points per game in his other 12 matchups, including having 23 against the 49ers in the rematch. So there is a very good opportunity for Jared Goff to bounce back. And to your point, Adam,

without having Todd Gurley on the field, maybe he throws more in the red zone. Maybe he gets some of those rushing touchdowns. They don't go to Akers or Henderson or Brown. It does go to one of the wide receivers. And as we saw, Higby broke out last year. Kup and Woods are awesome. So this could just be a personal preference. As Heath said, these are guys that are not ranked as top 12 guys. If you feel safer with Jared Goff like in our magazine I believe it is next edition of our magazine Chris Towers I think this was the draft he took Cam Newton and Jared Goff and I asked him about that in the questionnaire that

I post to everybody and I said you feel comfortable with these two quarterbacks and I think this is the perfect scenario that you want to do if you're going to swing for the fences on a quarterback like Cam who could have a top five bounce back season if things go right is you take a guy with a good floor and golf probably has a safer floor than roethlisberger because of his age because coming off of an elbow injury in an off season that he does not have probably the same rehab they look fine like dave said and the video looks great and his physical appearance looks great but may not have the same rehab with the team because he wasn't allowed in the facility, all those things. So he may be safer golf over Roethlisberger,

but like he said, I don't know if golf has the same ceiling. So we'll see. And Steelers defense much better than it was last time. That's another thing. So much better factors in Rams defense may be worse because no Wade Phillips there and some changeover. So if you want to go golf over Roethlisberger, I'm totally fine with that. They're almost back to back for me in my rankings. But I do think that Roethlisberger ceiling is a little bit higher. That's why I would take it.

Well, I can tell you late round picks. So you shouldn't care about your floor here when you're in round 13 plus. I can tell you that I do know how well Jared Goff did in two games without Brandon Cooks, Jamie. Combined seven fantasy points. There you go. There's also the game before that where Cooks had a zero and Goff had 26.

Yeah, it's all matchups. It was all matchups all year for him. Yeah, it's more matchup than anything else. Well, so it was Roethlisberger's. It was like a Patriots defense, a Ravens defense. It was the same thing. Oh, without Antonio Brown.

Yeah. Um, all right. Let's take, I mean, his track record without AB is not great. I didn't hear it. Okay.

We're going to take a, take a break here. Um, and when we come back, Chris Carson versus the elite quarterbacks and which bears running back is better in PPR. We'll be right back. Take back your free time with PC Express

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Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals, be careful along our tracks, and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. Well, for us, when we draft, you get to the third round and those two top quarterbacks are sitting there. For many others, you're talking more like 20th overall.

But Chris Carson might be the best running back on the board. So Chris Carson or Patrick Mahomes, Dave and Heath have Carson ahead of the quarterbacks. Jamie, you would take Mahomes and Lamar before Chris Carson. Carson is sort of at the bridge for me with the running back position of where it starts to get a little bit murky. And I certainly understand if he hits and he's right,

he's going to be good. But I think I'm going to start to be out on a lot of these guys coming back from lower leg injuries or leg injuries, excuse me, with Carson coming back from the hip injury, kind of similar to what I said about Roethlisberger previously. Like I'm just concerned in certain cases and it's very case specific, like Jarvis Landry, for example, same situation coming off of a hip injury. I'm just a little bit worried about what the long term impact could be, especially for Carson. He didn't have surgery. So hopefully his his bone is healed.

But this is now two of three seasons where he hasn't been able to finish the year. I know the Carlos Hyde signing is more about Rashad Penny than it is about about Carson, but I would not be surprised if they do give Hyde enough work that it just impacts Carson in some negative way. So he's still a very good number two running back, but the way that I'm going to draft is I'm going to most likely take, like I said, two running backs with my first two picks in the range where I would take a quarterback. So I'm probably going to be out on Carson. And if I'm sitting there staring at my homes or Lamar Jackson in round three, that's an easy choice for me, just given what the upside of those two players will be and also what their

floor is. So it's, it's more about how I'm drafting and where Carson, I think is going to end up going. So I'm probably most likely out on Carson a lot. It could be a big mistake because I hope he's going to be great, but I just think that the offense is trending in a different direction and there are some capable mouths to feed there that could impact Carson in a

negative way. Heath. At Ryan, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Matthew Stafford,

and Cam Newton. Oh, Jared golf too. Those, none of those quarterbacks are in my top eight. Every draft, multiple quarterbacks from that group are going to be available in the double digit rounds. And so I'm just probably not going to get either of the elite quarterbacks because

I'm probably going to take a couple of those guys later in the draft. And it sounds so stupid. I'm going to take Chris Carson ahead of Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. I mean, you know, for a fact that even if Mahomes isn't at a hundred percent, even if Jackson doesn't do what he does last year, they're both going to average more fantasy points per game than Chris Carson. You know this is going to be true. Oh, they're going to double him up. Heath laid it out perfectly.

It's a supply and demand thing. And listen, it's different if I'm in a 10-team PPR league and maybe it's six points for passing touchdown, and I know that running backs are going to be available later and later then. Yeah, I think I can probably splurge on a quarterback in that type of a format,

but I, I want to get those running back positions filled. Carson has given me 1400 total yards and nine touchdowns each of the past two seasons. All they did was add Carlos Hyde. If I want to handcuff Carlos Hyde as an insurance policy to Chris Carson, I can do it with a late pick because nobody's looking for Carlos Hyde on draft day.

It's the only reason. It's the only good reason for taking Carson ahead of one of these elite quarterbacks. Okay. I'm not sure it's a great reason, though, because he's got I'm talking PPR here. Sure. He almost averaged 15 PPR points per game last year. Well, it's just that we keep, we always talk about how

Russell Wilson might throw the ball more, and he's got Metcalf and Locke. He's got his best tandem wide receivers. They brought in Philip Dorsett. They might sign Josh Gordon. Their defenseman, Greg Olson, they brought in. It doesn't seem like we ever knock Chris Carson for this.

And if they do start throwing the ball more, that's going to be really bad for Carson. Who's their best pass-catching running back on the roster? He doesn't throw to his running backs. It's Chris Carson. It's Chris Carson. He's not going to catch 50. And Carson might end up seeing a career high in catches this year because of it.

Well, he just had a career high in catches, and he missed some time. And so it's certainly a fair point. 37 catches is a career high. So I think Chris Carson's a very good back. Just for me it's like again it's the way i'm gonna most likely draft i'm not gonna probably go three running backs in a row when i've taken two that i'm very happy with and then one of those two quarterbacks are staring me in the face plus those other receivers that are going to be there in round three so again i have no problem if somebody wants to take Carson in third round,

I think again, he's, he's one of the better number two running backs. And, you know, I don't want to lump him in with the older guys, you know, quote unquote,

older guys of Melvin Gordon and Todd Gurley, or they're not even old, you know, just the retread guys. Cause he's on the same offense. But I, again, I'm concerned a little bit about what the health could be.

Because really haven't heard anything aside from Mr. Optimism saying that he's expected to be fine. And Pete Carroll is going to say that for the most part about everybody. haven't heard anything aside from Mr. Optimism saying that he's expected to be fine. And Pete Carroll is going to say that for the most part about everybody that's not named Rashad Penny. So, you know, the Carlos Hyde signing is a little bit of a red flag, small one, but it's a little bit of one. And we'll see how that goes because it's not like they're just throwing a young running back in there. They're taking the guy coming off a thousand yard season. That's a capable veteran. It's the Le'Veon Bell Frank Gore scenario to a certain extent outside of Gore played with Adam Gase. And so there's a relationship there. Carlos Hyde doesn't do things wrong. He's just not an elite level

talent. So Carson fumbles or Carson misses a block or Carson does something incorrect. You know, there's a guy that's capable of doing something right sitting there on the bench. And just to go back to what Adam said about Seattle throwing more, I do think if that happens, Chris Carson, and Chris Carson plays 16 games, he probably joins the 50 catch group. All right. That's a great answer. Top 12 running backs. Fair

point. Tariq Cohen versus David Montgomery in PPR. Heath has Cohen higher one spot ahead of Montgomery. I brought this one up, though, even though they're back to back. Dave and Jamie have Montgomery well ahead, at least six spots ahead of Montgomery. I brought this one up, though, even though they're back-to-back. Dave and Jamie have Montgomery well ahead, at least six spots ahead of Tariq Cohen. So, Heath, you at least think it's a debate. Again, you have Cohen one spot ahead of David Montgomery.

I just, well, I can give this stat a little bit later. I just thought it was kind of a fun stat. But go ahead. Why don't you kick off the debate of Cohen versus Montgomery specifically in PPR? It's not a, it's not a, and I'm assuming Heath in half PPR, it's easily Montgomery for you too?

It is. And this is one of the problems when we do these rankings. I've got them separated by a point and a half in full PPR projections for an entire season. So I do think I'm pretty optimistic about Montgomery being better than he was last year. But most of the reasons that I'm optimistic about that are also good for Tariq Cohen. His efficiency was even worse than Montgomery's,

and with Cohen, we actually have a track record of two years before that that shows that he's actually a very good running back, and he's much more likely to regress in a positive manner than what we saw from Montgomery last year just because we have the track record from Cohen. I think Taylor Gabriel leaving while it's going to help. Anthony Miller will also help Tariq Cohen, who lines up in the slot a lot and will run a lot of those bubble screen type plays, maybe get him a few more big plays down the field.

And so I like both these guys. I really wouldn't be too upset if I started with wide receivers and Travis Kelsey early in the draft to have these two guys as my starting running backs, I think they're both going to be borderline starters in PPR. I've got Montgomery ranked higher, but I'd rather get Cohen at his ADP, which is going to be a little bit later in PPR than Montgomery at his,

because if Montgomery can't get going, and look, he barely had more PPR fantasy points per game than Cohen last year and Cohen played half the snaps last year but if he can't get going the Bears are going to have to make a move at running back and I think just the smartest thing for them to do is to say all right we're just going to throw the ball a lot and Cohen we're going to get him the ball in space but I'm not sure that that's going to happen what if Montgomery Montgomery does bounce back? And Montgomery seems to be a real sure bet for short yardage and goal line compared to Cohen. So I'm going to take the second year running back who doesn't catch nearly as

many passes, but could get 35 catches and did better in PPR on a per game basis last year than Cohen did. I think if you are rooting for Tariq Cohen, you want Nick Foles to be the starter because he won't run as much as Trubisky will. So that'll help with some of those dump off passes. This is, this is almost for me,

floor versus ceiling and a depending on how you build your roster type of move. Because I think if, like he said, if you need, I think a little bit more of a guarantee, you want to take Tariq Cohen. If you want to swing for the fences play, I think if like he said if you need I think a little bit more of a guarantee you want to take three call if you want to swing for the fences play I think it's more Montgomery which is why I have him ranked higher than in in that format and certainly higher in non-PPR I think if both guys stay healthy the touches will favor Montgomery I think Dave is right the touchdown should favor Montgomery um receptions is not going to be close because three Cohen should definitely as he said help fill the Taylor Gabriel role, help play,

uh, a variety of roles can play in tandem with Montgomery as well. So, uh, again, I think if you, if you need a safer play to sort of solidify starting lineup, whether it's,

you know, one of your top running backs or flex, it's, it's probably better to go Cohen and PPR, but if Montgomery hits, you're going to be thrilled about where you're getting him in that round six range you know so i think that's the play that i would make well that's that's the last thing i wanted to say there's no doubt based on current nfc adp who the better value is here there is no way there's currently david

montgomery is a round four pick uh 47.9 i think over the last two weeks, over the last month. Tariq Cohen at the end of round eight. This is where people are just pushing up these 250-touch running back type of guys. Again, if he hits, he's going to be great, but there shouldn't be that much difference between the two of them. I tried to do some math. Tell me if this makes sense. Let's give Tariq Cohen 75 catches, which is right in between what he did in 2018 and 2019. Let's give Montgomery 23. Jordan Howard has had 23, then 20, and then Montgomery had 25. So that's a 52 catch. What? I've got Cohen at 76 and Montgomery at 24. Okay. So we got about a 50 point difference in PPR there. I gave Cohen 1,000 total yards. He had closer to 1,200 in 2018,

but not even 700 last year. But I gave him 1,000 total yards. Based on what Jordan Howard and David Montgomery have done in the last three years, I gave Howard 80 more total yards than Cohen. And that still gives Cohen like a 40 to 44-point lead in PPR before we get to touchdowns. So that means Montgomery would have to score

eight more touchdowns than Tariq Cohen, assuming that the total yards and the catches are right here, to outscore him. And since Cohen has had eight and three touchdowns, even if we just give him three touchdowns, do you think David Montgomery is getting 11 touchdowns? So Montgomery would have to just do a lot better, I guess, than Howard and he and Montgomery did last year.

He just had to be a really good running back, I guess, which is possible, and that's the upside. But the 50-catch difference is just enormous in this format, and the value is great for Tariq Cohen if that happens. But I did want to mention that two years ago, Tariq Cohen had four catches of 35 or more yards. And I didn't really know how to put that. It seemed like a lot.

He had a 70-yard touchdown catch. Christian McCaffrey has never even had a 40-yard catch. He's had two catches in his career of 35 or more yards. They were, I think, 37 and 38 yards. Cohen did that four times and three times was like 45 more yards in 2018. I'm not

chasing 2018. I think that was Cohen's best season. It will be. Just kind of crazy how good he was that year, but he did some fluky stuff. Even crazier is that the Bears won't unleash him. He's played 49 career games in Chicago.

He's had 22 games with 10 or more touches. So not even in half of his games has he had 10 touches. It's my size, Dave. They don't want to use them. Would you unleash me? Yes. Oh, thanks. Thanks for nothing.

All right. I had a lot of emails here. I'm going to save them till tomorrow. I just want to read this Twitter poll. I want Dave and Heath to weigh in on this because they did not on Friday. We debated this on Friday's show. Now let's do a Twitter poll. A team is winning a fantasy matchup going into Monday night football and only has a DST left. The opponent is done for the week. Should the team be allowed to sit the DST to avoid negative points? And there were four of us on Friday's show and I was the only one that said no. So 75% said yes, 25% said no. And the

Twitter poll, 76.5% said yes, you should be allowed to sit a DST and 23.5% said no. I am really shocked at where the public opinion is on this. Jamie, how do you feel about this? Should you be allowed to? No. Yeah, right. Hell yeah. But if your league allows you to

and it guarantees you the win, then yes, you do it. Yeah, well, if you're, but yeah, that's the premise. Should your league allow it, I guess. No, I mean, you know, you set your lineup for a reason. That's why you have limits on your starting lineup. That should's the premise. Should your league allow it, I guess. No, I mean, you set your lineup for a reason. That's why you have limits on your starting lineup.

That should be the case. Heath? I think we had this happen in a fantasy baseball league this week. Someone did not have a catcher on their roster. Waivers went through, and they didn't have a catcher, and the season was starting, and they were just taking a zero for the week because they didn't have a catcher. My league? One leagues no not one of your leagues and then the commissioner went in and

gave them a catcher that's not in the league any longer just so that they would score points at their other positions like it's obviously totally dependent on what your league setup is i personally think you should be able to take a zero out of position if you want to. But that's not fair. I don't know. It's the last four words that Heath said. If you want to. If you want to, you have to set a legal lineup. It is

legal. You have to put a DST in your lineup. You have to play a DST there. Right. The way that he your lineup. Yeah, you have to play a DST there. Right. So like in Heath's the way that he described it, like if you have a tight end that you

know is not playing Monday night and that's the guy that's on your roster, but you're winning and you're afraid he's going to fumble, the other guy might fumble, you have to put a tight end in. Yeah, put a tight end in that's not going to play and going to score zero, but you can't just sit the tight end and not have a tight line.

It's your team. If you do it, if you want to, this comes back to CB. Our standard setup is that if you don't have a position filled in your lineup, then you, you've got an illegal lineup.

Yes. Where most other people are playing outside of CBS. That is not a thing. If you have an open lineup, that spot just scores zero and the rest of the team's points accrue. So if you're in one of those leagues, there's no reason you can't do this. I don't think you should be in one of those leagues. I think that is silly. I think every league should require you to start- I understand, but as you are seeing on the podcast and on the Twitter results, three quarters of the world is against you.

It's wrong. Yeah, right. So I'm trying to influence them and make their lives better. Heath, that's what I'm here for, to make people happy. I don't think that's making their lives better. You're taking away an option and a choice. And this is America. And this is fantasy football. And I can't think of anything that's more patriotic

and definitive of freedom than fantasy football and the ability to set your lineup the dumb thing is that why would you give defense negative points that's just stupid well no it's just your defense like you've got i know you give them a certain amount of your quarterback right i mean sometimes those quarterbacks have those four interception games they end up like negative five adam running back fumbles on the first but the part of that though is like you know if if your quarterback throws a pick six and it counts against your defense like they're scoring that's just stupid yeah that is dumb go ahead heath to clarify if if you were in this situation and it was first come first serve waivers on Sunday and Monday because of COVID.

And there was a defense on a buy. You'd be fine with picking them up and playing the defense on the buy to get zero points. Correct. I would, but I think then that's just a, no, because you know what, why don't you make,

no, make the, because you have to force the, the fantasy manager to make that roster move before the week starts, I guess, and for those lineups lock. Well, I don't know. We're going to have first come first serve waivers, or at least I am.

Nobody locks until their game starts. If you're on a buy, your game never starts. So that's an interesting because a lot of times this is brought on by an email about a championship matchup and there were no teams on by. So,

this was Monday Night Football and you couldn't pick up a team that was on a by. So, that is a bit of a gray area. I'll have to think about that, Heath. But I really think that you need

to start a legal lineup. That's how I would do it. I just, you know. Well, no, but everywhere else, that is a legal lineup.

The only way you could have an illegal lineup is by playing too many players. You can't have an illegal, like, there's no penalty if you go out on the field with 10 players on defense. You just only have 10 players.

But it's a penalty if you do it on offense. It's a... I'm not sure. Is it? I think it probably is. I don't think so. Well, it should be. We're talking about defense anyway.

You could run zero defenders out there in an NFL play and there would be no flag thrown. Is it a penalty? I don't know if I've ever seen an offense. No, because there's never a not enough men on the field penalty. No, no, no, no, no. Can an offense snap the ball at 10? I guess they probably can.

I believe they can. I believe it's happened. I think we just won the debate. I don't think so. I don't think so at all. This is preposterous. I got to go. We're out of think we just won the debate. I don't think so. I don't think so at all. This is preposterous. I got to go. We're out of here.

There was no debate. What are you talking about? All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. More training camp stuff tomorrow. We're going to talk about training camp battles. Who's going to rise in ADP? We've got a fun points per game episode coming up this week.

We've got Ross Tucker on Friday. We've got a good week of fantasy football podcasting. Vote for us. Nominate us on podcast awards. Tell your friends about our show, and we'll talk to Tucker on Friday. We've got a good week of fantasy football podcasting. Vote for us to nominate us on podcast awards. Tell your friends about our show, and we'll talk to you on Tuesday. For a limited time, switch to Shopify point of sale, and you could save up to 20% and improve your bottom line. We're so serious about savings, we've made this ad 20% shorter.

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