Fantasy Football Today - Rookie Gems: Beyond the Box Score (05/09 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts If you're looking for an underhyped rookie to keep an eye on this season or especially in dynasty leagues, this is the episode for you. We talk about talented players who were drafted too late in the NFL Draft and have a chance to contribute this season and have a solid career. We start with quick news items (2:15) and then talk about Tyrone Tracy (5:10) and Kimani Vidal (13:35). Which running back has a better chance to help you win a Fantasy league in 2024 and beyond? ... Spotlighting Dolphins wide receiver Malik Washington (21:10) and discussing if he'll affect any of the other Dolphins stars on offense. Then we finish with three more WRs (26:00): Luke McCaffrey, Javon Baker and Jermaine Burton ... After a brief discussion about some TV shows to watch, we finish with five rookie tight ends (42:00) that you need to know about. Giants TE Theo Johnson is a tremendous athlete and the Bengals drafted two players who have us intrigued ... Email us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dynasty/id1696679179 SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aHlmMJw1m8FareKybdNfG?si=8487e2f9611b4438&nd=1 Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is Fantasy Football Today from CBS Sports. What a play! Can you believe this? No, I can't. It's time to dominate your fantasy league. Now here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. We are going beyond the box score on this Thursday morning, May 9th here on fantasy football today. These are advanced stats from simple people.

Adam Azer, Jacob Gibbs at JAGibbs underscore 23, and Dan Schneier at DanSchneierNFL. He's got his giant shirt on. We're talking about two giants today. The first guy we're talking about, the first rookie gem. Oh, I didn't even think about Allen Robinson. That's a third giant we're talking about today. But rookie gem Tyrone

Tracy is first up on the list. So guys, Jacob, first question to you. Are these players, talking about rookie gems here, are these players that are going to help us for fantasy in 2024? Or are we thinking more long-term? We're thinking more long-term. They're players to know the names of for your dynasty leagues, potentially to be players you pick up for this year as well, depending on injuries and stuff like that. But we've actually had, with that being the case, we've had some really good hits that have helped people in season-long fantasy right away come from this episode over the past couple of summers. So I think some of these guys do have a chance to be relevant as rookies. Um, but mostly it's just guys with intriguing skill sets that are going a bit overlooked. The way I look at it is this, the last two years on the show, we, we had Puka Nakua last

year and we had Christian Watson a year before both Puka was essentially undrafted in most leagues last year. And Christian Watson at the time was the last round pick. I remember getting him in every last round of our mocks and things of that nature. They're guys that probably won't impact this year, but then you never know if an injury happens and a depth chart changes. They are guys with the talent to make an impact

if they get the opportunity. The opportunity is less guaranteed, but you're going for the talent. I love it. I love it. All right, so Tyrone Tracy is the first guy we'll talk about. Just a few quick news items here. The Giants signed Allen Robinson.

I don't think that's going to move the needle. Yeah, or anything. And then Detroit rookie cornerback Terry and Arnold, first-round pick, said that the Raiders were on the clock, and they were thinking about either drafting him, Terry and Arnold, or drafting Brock Bowers. And they told him that they flipped a coin. Oh, no way.

It landed on Brock Bowers. What a disappointment that was for fantasy managers worldwide at that point. Like, wouldn't you rather Brock Bowers have gotten anywhere but the Raiders? No, not really. Why? I just, I mean, it's bad for Michael Mayer, but I believe in Brock Bowers. If he's good enough,

I don't know if it'd be good this year, but I'm okay. Pierce wants to run the ball 36 times a game. I think it's about as bad of a landing spot as he could have gotten. Yeah. I'm with Jacob. Why? Because he wants the right quarterback play,

uh, overall receiving volume, potentially route, like involvement rate concerns. If with the two tight ends. There's no upside really there for the passing game. I don't know. And Devontae Adams

is a legit target competition, at least for this year. Right, right. I think for this year, it's not great. I'm just going to say this. I don't think the Antonio Pierce hiring was a great hire. Well, it might not be, but he still wants to run the football. Yeah.

I hope he does well, but I will say, Zay Jones is going to meet with the Chiefs this week. So that's really all I got for news and notes. What do we got on Sportsline these days, fellas? Jacob? All the draft coverage stuff. Just trying to turn over any stone that you maybe don't know about any of these rookies there's so much context um that's important

with all these guys coming from different types of coaching schemes and everything and just trying to understand now that we have the landing spots how they might transition to the nfl so just uh yesterday published the running back version of that and i'm going to be updating the receivers as well so if you want to learn more about these guys that's what I'm working on right now. Excellent. And of course gambling content all the time on Sportsline, NHL playoffs, they call the Stanley Cup playoffs,

the Larry O'Brien playoffs. Can you imagine if people called the NBA playoffs that? Isn't that what the I think it's the Larry O'Brien trophy. Is this the happiest you've ever been Adam with the Knicks? No, because they're dropping like flies. I know.

They're all hurt. Bad stuff. The Pacers may have just won the series last night. It really sucks. And an OB is going to be out. Brunson's got a foot injury. It's crazy. But, yeah, it's been pretty fun.

It's been pretty amazing. It's crazy. You play your guys the whole game, every game, all season long, and they get hurt. It's crazy. It's almost like it just happened before. That's the hot takeiest route. Mitchell Robinson was not a minutes thing. Bogdan Bogdanovich, not a minutes thing. Julius Randle, that had nothing to do with minutes. Maybe Ananobi, but Ananobi gets hurt all the time. Thank you, Jacob. More gambling content on

Sportsline. Go there. Rookie gems, rookie gems, Tyrone Tracy, Giants fifth round pick 5'11", 209 pounds, ran up 4'4", 840, 40 inch vertical. Really good athlete. He's a converted wide receiver. Like everyone in this class, he's going to be getting his AARP card in his third year. Basically, he's going to be 25 years old in November. This is a very old class because of the COVID year and all that. Not a lot of carry. So my first question, I know you guys both like Tyrone Tracy here, is should I even look at Antonio Gibson?

Because that is obviously the guy that I think of, and he just wasn't experienced enough as a running back. He did almost nothing as a running back. They made him a running back in washington it never really worked um so how can a guy he had hit 113 carries last year that was most of his career carries which is more than gibson but jacob you know that's what i'm concerned about right off the bat with tyrone tracy but i do know a lot of people that i work with including the two of you on the show today do like this guy a lot yeah so only 33 rushing 33 rushing attempts for Antonio Gibson in his year as a running back. He really didn't transition to running back toe, the pros. So it's a little bit different with Tracy who we

saw full season of him playing running back and doing it really effectively. He had three games. Tracy did where they gave him 15 or more rushing attempts in those games. He had 122, 160 and 112 rushing yards. All of his avoided tackle rates, all that stuff, the efficiency metrics held up over the games where he had the larger workload, which I think is encouraging. I'm really, really excited for him. I get the Antonio Gibson comparison and admittedly, like he was somebody I was really excited for Gibson early in his career

because of the skillset and it never really translated i i'm curious to hear dan who i think has more have you you watched a decent amount of tracy at this point yeah okay how's that comparison hold up to you i think he's a much more dynamic runner and like much much better contact balance than antonio gibson like much harder to tackle total totally agree with that i don't really see the gibson comp as much so tracy let me just be clear to start was a player who was on my my guys list uh show that we did which is like your favorite values players in the in the class three days before the draft so he was on that list as one of you know 10 players before the giants drafted him so i just want to make that clear it's somebody who i came to the conclusion prior to, you know, the Giants selecting him. Obviously I have a Giants podcast, but part

of the reason is I do think there are different aspects to his game that Antonio Gibson doesn't have. Just 1.8 yards for Tracy where he had before contact, 71% of his yards in his final season at Purdue were created after contact on his own or either after contact, I'm sorry, either after contact or with force mistackles. He had the 97 percentile force mistackle rate and a 23.1 percent explosive run rate. His ability to change directions and get skinny in and out of holes is really what makes him a different special athlete. The same thing with the contact balance. It's really a different level than Gibson.

To me, he reminds me more of David Johnson and what David Johnson was coming out of Northern Iowa. People think of David Johnson, the product in the, uh, with his breakout with the Cardinals. But what people forget is David Johnson's first year with the Cardinals, he was a very inexperienced runner and he was making mistakes as a runner and he was not processing well. And they were able to kind of find a different level to what he was able to accomplish as a runner, basically with him learning the position. Now, he's not the same breakaway speed as David Johnson, but I think he has better contact balance. And I think he's a stronger runner at 209 pounds.

Very, very, he looks slender, but he's not. And the reason why I'm so excited about him, though, is just when you have a player like this, who's converted wide receiver to running back. There are so many, if you have the right coaching staff that can utilize this type of player, and if you're on the team that needs explosive plays, and the Giants have been dead last in explosive plays over the last two years. It's a big reason I think they prioritized a back like Tracy. There will be coaches, if you believe in that coaching staff, that can find ways to get them on the field in non-traditional ways.

We saw last year Wandel Robinson taking a lot of end-arounds and even lining up in the backfield and taking straight shotgun handoffs. That's what they did to get creative with a wide receiver. What are they going to do to get creative with a running back who converted from wide receiver? And I love this status. I want to throw this one out there as I saw it in my notes. As a sophomore, as a wide receiver at Iowa, Tyrone Tracy had a 2.26 yards per outrun. We talk about yardsrone Tracy had a 2.26 yards per outrun. We talk about yards per outrun a lot. That yards per outrun was better than any yards per outrun that A.D. Mitchell or Keon Coleman had in their entire career at the college football level. So there is a receiving upside as well.

The average 6.34 yards per carry as a runner. And I think you could see it when he's running. He has the ability to get in and out of breaks, create force missed tackles and just change directions really well. All right. This is Tyrone Tracy. And you look, the bad side of Antonio Gibson was that he was never able to be a good rusher, but the great, the good side of Gibson, he's always somewhat fantasy relevant because he's averaged 43 catches per year. So you might have that, uh, as a, like kind of a PPR boost for Tyrone Tracy who, you know, look, Eric Gray is a second year running back for the Giants. So he'd probably have to beat out Eric Gray. Devin Singletary is going to start as the running back.

Devin Singletary is a good player. He's not a great player. So Tracy is someone that could come into play maybe later in the year. By the way, I'm looking at the tweet now from Schneier. He's like, here are my guys for the NFL draft. He published this tweet the Monday after the draft. He said, sorry, I forgot to send this out on Thursday. He said, Malik neighbors, Tyler Newbin, Andrew Phillips. That's the entire Giants draft class. My, guys. Two days after the draft was concluded. I like it. Very good. All right.

We got to take a break here. We'll come back. We'll talk about Chargers rookie running back Kamani Vidal drafted in the sixth round. Miami receiver Malik Washington does the Odell Beckham signing. Just destroy any hopes for Malik Washington this year. We'll talk about that and a few more guys after this break on Fantasy Football today. Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference. Securian Canada gives you that coverage.

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whether your skincare routine is working because you look the same or is doing nothing because you look the same and whatever the heck red light therapy is. It's definitely not that. Don't overthink how you hydrate. Life's full of choices. Smart water is a simple one. You guys saw that? You're in that Knuckles movie? You know who does the voice of Knuckles? No idea.

It's that guy. I don't know. He's Charles from The Office. Charles, you wanted me? Yeah. Big Parks and Rec is a considerably better show than the office kind of guy i would try to pronounce this guy's name i have no idris elba i was gonna say

yeah yeah yeah oh my god this is the worst thing you ever first of all i i didn't watch enough office especially the late seasons to know that even idris elba was on the show but the fact that you go to the office as Idris Elba's calling card instead of Stringer Bell from The Wire is one of the most expensive things I've heard on this show since I started podcasting with you, Adam.

You know I don't watch The Wire. You know Idris Elba, he was in the office on a late season as like a... What? First of all, he was in The Office in its prime. He was in The Office... Who cares? He was Stringer Bell.

...during the Michael Scott paper company. He was also Luther, which is a really good show. Yeah, he was Luther. Another great show. But not Stringer Bell. That's his best character of all time. Okay, The Wire sucks.

You know it sucks. It's a super boring show. All right. Kamani Vidal. Chargers running back. All right, Jacob, what do we like about him? I think he is somebody who could potentially play like all three downs if needed.

I think he has a chance to get on the field for passing downs right away if they don't add any other running backs. I think among him, Gus Edwards, and Dobbins, it's possible that he's their best option on passing downs. And the GM of the Chargers has mentioned that as well when talking about a skill set that he really likes him as a blocker um and he played a ton on passing downs at troy and he's a good runner as well he's he's just a tough tackle he's 5 8 2 15 um and runs really hard. Had a pretty good avoided tackle rate as well. He's really

getting pushed up draft boards. To me, I clearly prefer Tracy of these two. I'm curious what you guys think. I wanted to ask on Tracy real quick, do you think he could get on the field if it's not a completely lost season? Do you think he could get on the field, or do you think Singletary is always going to be in his way in terms of like getting a real workload and not just being like a guy that they have a few things scripted for? Like if we're looking to find, and it's hard to predict this, but if we're looking to find last year, we had, we had on Puka the year before Christian Watson of guys who play more than we thought. thought he could be that guy because there are aspects of his profile that are really interesting, including the fact that in the last six games of his college career at Purdue, he increased his pass protection grade in each of those games. And you could watch it on tape. You see noticeable difference and improvement there. And he's a converted receiver. It's going

to take him a long time to become a good pass protector at the, especially at the NFL level, at the running back position, that'll be a key Jacob. But I just think ultimately he's in a unique situation versus the rest of these rookies because he's on a team that's lacking explosive plays, and they're going to find ways to get him on the football field so they can have him in motion

and also in the backfield as well, but also lined up in the slot. There are opportunities. To me, not enough. Not enough for him to get consistent touches. This Tyrone Tracy we're talking about again here for the Giants.

Yeah, I mean, I think Singletary would have to kind of struggle. I think it would have to be like Damian Pierce, the way he struggled last year, and then they were like, okay, it's Singletary. Or Miles Sanders, the way he struggled, and they went with Hubbard. And then maybe you can get Tyrone Tracy getting double-digit touches per game. Yes, could he get on the field because they need explosive plays? Yeah, but in maybe a Jalen Hyatt sense,

where it's never going to be consistent enough. That may be true, but at the same time, Singletary's never been a workhorse back, so I don't think we should assume that will happen with the Giants. And is it really difficult to imagine a path where Tyrone Tracy beats out Eric Gray or Gary Brightwell for the RB2 job? That, to me, is where it comes into play.

If he's the rb2 he's getting on the field a good amount in this all because singletary is not not going to be more than a 66 65 snap share kind of guy he never really has been no and it's also not that unrealistic that tracy is a third down back i mean he could he could have could he have i look i don't think this is going to happen but of all the running backs that were drafted on day three, who has the best chance of catching of 40 catches this year? And I think he'd have to be in that conversation. Yeah.

No, all the running backs who were drafted around in on day three, around four or later, but. Again, we are probably the two that are top of that conversation. Yeah. Okay. And I don't know. Dylan Lobby.

But okay. Sorry. Let me take a look here. Day three running backs. Jalen Wright. Bucky Irving maybe. I don't know. I don't think so.

Will Shipley. I doubt it. Ray Davis. Isaac Arendo. Shipley has been targeted 40 plus times in the past two seasons. But he's got Barkley on his team, and they don't throw to their running backs there. Braylon Allen, Audrick Estime, Rasheen Ali, Tyrone Tracy,

Keelan Robinson for the Jaguars. Yeah, he'd be at the top of the list, Tracy. He would be, I think. Dylan Lobby went to the Raiders as the last running back taken in the draft. He's a big catch guy. Okay, sorry. Back to Vidal. You know, I don't know who's going to lead that team in rushing.

I mean, when Dobbins and Edwards were both healthy in Baltimore, Dobbins played ahead of him. Edwards, I think, is really at the end of his career, coming off his worst season. I think it's good. I mean, I'm kind of thinking it could be dobbins if obviously health dependent he says he's back but these are not necessarily big obstacles for videl if he's good to get past it's not going to be week one but you could certainly see a scenario where edwards is

not great dobbins is coming back from an achilles injury. He's not great. And they decide, all right, come on, Evidel, let's give him a shot here. On a team that wants to run the ball on a team that added a six foot eight, 330 pound run blocker to the mix. And we'll run a lot of different, what you got to love about Harbaugh. If you just watch him through years, there's going to be so many different personnel groupings and formations that are designed to get the ball in the running backs and whoever that may be to get the ball in the running back sand, whoever that may be in space and in with, you know, lead blockers with pullers. There's so many different versions of power gap they run that are so fun to watch. So you can bet on this

offense in my mind from a blocking scheme standpoint and bet on their ability to create yards in the run game. It's a matter of who's going to get those yards. I think Vidal is an interesting runner for the reason Jacob said. My favorite part about his game when I watch him is his low pad level that he runs with. And I just think that style is really good. We've seen that work with Dobbins in that system. We've seen that work with Gus Edwards in that system. It works for power gap. It's just a matter of, will he get on the field in year one? And I think part of the reason he could is because he had that workhorse role in college. And that plays a factor here, getting on the field for those third downs,

those passing downs, earning the trust of your coaching staff and your quarterback from a past protection standpoint. So doing all those little things. So I think there is a path. And I think that's why he's had so much helium in his draft stock. It's definitely getting to a point for me, Jacob,

though, where I'm not going to be in on by now, most likely because of just this insane rise in his draft stock, at least not for dynasty talking about redraft. Yeah, yeah. For redraft is a little bit different. For redraft. He's still fine as one of these late round guys that were tossing picks on like a Puka Naku or Christian Watson that at least has the upside if he gets the playing time. Jacob, have you studied yards per carry in college and how it translates to the NFL because Kimani Vidal has a career 5.1 yards per carry, which is bad, I'd say for an NFL running back. I will say that

Kyron Williams also had a career 5.1 yards per carry, which made his 2023 season pretty shocking. 5.6 yards per carry last year, though, for Vidal, which is great. But I don't know if there's any correlation there. I just know that his career numbers is not very good. I haven't studied that. I don't give much significance to yards per carry. I would guess that there's not much correlation. Um, what I like to do when it comes to collegiate running backs is compare them relative to their teammates just because I like that. Yeah. Like, like i mentioned earlier with just the different systems um it can be really a crapshoot trying to translate this stuff from college to the pros um and he was better than his teammates and most most advanced rushing metrics across the board

which is to be expected but it's not always the case some of these running backs like jaylen right um was not better than his teammates in a lot of different metrics. And so that's noteworthy to me that he was, especially because he handled such a massive workload. All right. Vidal. Vidal. Yeah.

Well, that's because you heard Dan butcher it. Even though I sent an email, I was like, it's pronounced Vidal. I put it phonetically. Schneier just can't do it Schneider just can't do it. He just can't do it. Malik Washington, Miami's round six wide receiver. He averaged 118.8 yards per game last year, second most in the nation. Behind Malik Neighbors, he's a missed tackle guy.

He forced a lot of missed tackles, and he had an extremely low ADOT, eight yards, which was 8.1, which is not that low in the NFL. It's not, it's low, but it's super low in college. Uh, anyway, Malik Washington, uh, what do you like about him, Jacob? And do you think, do you think the Beckham signing basically crushes any hopes for him this year? I don't necessarily think it does. We haven't seen Beckham be a full-time player in quite some time last year, his Last year, his route participation rate was regularly around 30%, meaning that there could be still a lot of routes for another third receiver, I think, in Miami.

And it could be Malik Washington. When they drafted him, Mike McDade... What's up, Dan? Jacob froze, right? Oh, that's Jacob who froze. thought that for a second that was my computer i was like what happened there jacob all right uh i'm gonna until he gets back i can jump in on on on some malik washington malik washington definitely a really exciting player in the system he you you discussed it a little bit earlier adam he had the most forced missed tackles of any wide

receiver last year with 35 the most slot yards of any wide receiver and the second most slot receptions in college football, 93 playing on a team that wasn't known prior to his arrival as being a pass first type of team or a team that can really get anything out of their past game. He's not a deep threat. He's not going to be, but when I watched him, that ability to just stop and start and short area burst getting in and out of his breaks, it's exactly what is made for this Mike McDaniel system. When I told you last year, Adam, and you laughed at me that I wanted to talk about Devin A-chan, Devon A-chan, however you're supposed to say it, as the best you get said before the draft last year, give me your favorite fits for any running back.

I said, how about Devon A-chan to the Dolphins? And I get a text back immediately and I have proof we've shown it on the show before. He's just going to be a punt returner at the NFL level. We can't talk about somebody deep cut like this. Well, that was the deep cut fit that worked the best of anyone in the class last year. And I'm not sitting here to say Malik Washington is the same type of fit.

It's a little bit different for a running back versus receiver, but this is the type of athlete and talent you want in this Mike McDaniel system. It's the, it's as perfect as a fit for you can get. Now to answer your question, I'm a little more skeptical than Jacob on year one impact based on this Beckham signing.

I agree that Beckham hasn't been as effective statistically, but I don't think he signed this contract to sit on the bench. I wonder who this hurts because, you know, this has been a team that has basically thrown to two guys for each of the last two years. No one else has done anything of significance i'm actually wondering if it might hurt devon achan um yeah which would be another knock to devon achan i think he's probably going a little bit too late in our drafts now into the fourth round he was a second round pick before the draft and they draft jaylen right and all of a sudden people think A-Chan's going to sit.

I don't really get that. But, yeah, I don't know where they... Maybe, does it hurt Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddell? Do you have any thoughts on that, Jacob? What are you asking? If Odell Beckham's signing? No, if Malik Washington... Or Malik Washington just does nothing this year,

which is very possible. He's a round six pick, after all. I've never downgraded a good player because of a round six pick. So a good NFL player is... I think he has no impact on Tyreek or Waddle or HN. It's possible he gets on the field. I just wanted to highlight Malik Washington

because he was really, really good last year. He was the wide receiver two in PFF receiving grade behind only Malik neighbors. Yard sprout run was insane i did want to mention that the way he accumulated his yards um is potentially suspect in terms of translating to the nfl so he's one of only four receivers dating back to 2016 that was selected in the draft to have a yard per run rate above three with an average depth of target below nine yards the The other guys are Paris Campbell, Kiki UT, Devin Duvernay, and Josh downs.

So that's the kind of player I think we can think of him as, uh, Matt Harmon actually did a little late on that, but it was needed. Matt Harmon did like his downfield route running thinks that he can make some, um, plays down the field as well,

but really mostly a short area weapon. Um, for what it's worth, though, Matt, who Matt watches all the routes and grades them in terms of their ability to beat man coverage, all this different stuff, he thinks that Washington is a better short area weapon than Wanda Robinson and Rondell Moore, who are both second round picks. So I think that's really interesting for a guy who ended up going into the sixth round. Just from a pure talent standpoint, that's how Matt evaluated him. All right, let's talk about three guys

who were drafted in round three or four. So before any of the guys we've talked about so far, Tyrone Tracy, Kamani Vidal, and Malik Washington. Washington wide receiver, Luke McCaffrey. He was a round three pick. He went before Troy Franklin, who we're somewhat excited about, before Javon Baker.

Then we'll talk about Javon Baker to the Patriots, the second receiver they took. They took Jalen Polk in round two. They took Baker out of UCF in round four and Jermaine Burton in round three. And Burton to the Bengals. Burton and Baker were very high ADOT guys. Baker was 17.1 yards.

Burton had the third highest ADOT in the country at 20.2 yards. It was 16.5 in 2022. Yeah, we should probably talk about that just from a profile standpoint here. It's very high. But, Jacob, you can kick it off with McCaffrey, Baker, Burton. Where do you want to steer this one? McCaffrey is another guy who's transitioning. He's not played wide receiver for very long.

And I just wanted to point out that he like he improved across the board he had a 90 percent route participation rate which is one of the highest in the country 120 targets last year 15th in the country so that's all impressive to me for a player who's new to the wide receiver position that he's immediately like staying on the field in all situations and hogging targets um i mentioned matt harman he didn't like mcafree's work as a downfield runner he was impressed like staying on the field in all situations and hogging targets. I mentioned Matt Harmon. He didn't like McCaffrey's work as a downfield runner. He was impressed. Go ahead, Dan.

We lost you again. Well, the good news is Luke McCaffrey was one of my, my guys. I had a few on the show. I have three guys that are my guys that made this show. So it worked out well. Obviously, you know, the bloodline with brother, Christian McCaffrey, son of Ed McCaffrey. He, what I love about him most is he's a zone beater. obviously you know the bloodline with brother Christian McCaffrey son of Ed McCaffrey he what

I love about him most is he's a zone beater he had the second best wide receiver grade against zone according to pro football focus against every wide receiver in all of college football what does that mean to me it means NFL's changing most teams are playing zone fewer teams are playing man there are very few of these Wink Martindale defenses left to beat zone is everything I talked to somebody who works in the NFL, and he told me what they're evaluating for. This is for one team. What they were evaluating for the Giants was the quarterback's success rate

against zone because they're going to see so much more zone. Same goes for the receivers. He's a former quarterback who understands how to beat zone. He also had a 62% contested catch rate. His hands are there. He also, in my mind, had the ability to really accelerate post-catch and show some ability as a separator, as a route runner, and that's early. He's fearless at the catch point.

I felt like I understand what Jacob was saying about Matt Harmon's suspect. That's not the right word. About being a little concerned about him as a downfield route runner at the NFL level from an ability. Can he separate? But when he's running that vertical plane, if you throw the ball near him, it's a lot like Romo dunes that he can make those contested catches, you know, change his body frame away from his frame, pluck away from his frame, body control in the air. All those things are interesting.

They're like, you know, new Hopkins ask, but not at that level. Also much better athlete than people realize at the combine. He had a nine four, four RAS score, which was 192 out of 300,402 wide receivers ever since 1987 at the combine really showed out in the 40 yard dash and clearly the short shuttle and the three cone. Those are the big ones. The short shuttle of four Oh two and it's three cone of six, seven are both elite grades. They show change of direction and stop and start ability. One stat that Jacob had that I'm sure he wanted to say before he got cut off here, but I'll just say it for him. Oh, you're back. Uh, that I, that I found the, the, the touchdown percentage one.

I thought that was a cool one. It's Luke McCaffrey. Just so we know Washington. You have that one Jacob or Dan puts him on the spot for something he doesn't have. That's very professional. It may not be in his notes, but I found this from Jacob when I was doing some research. Luke McCaffrey is in the mix with the career percentage of team receiving touchdowns when on the field.

Number one, Keon Coleman, 48%, number two, Marvin Harrison, Jr. Number three, Roman Wilson,

number four, Luke McCaffrey at 44.2%. So it was really a dominator in a lot of ways, but I just love the natural skills from a film's perspective. Like for the guys you watch on tape, he's one of those ones that stands out to me. Um, yeah. So McCaffrey, would you guys rather have McCaffrey or Jahan Dotson in a dynasty league? I would take McCaffrey. I'd still go with Dotson. Okay. All right. Uh, two other receivers here and I'm going to ask you, Jacob, are they basically just downfield guys? I have a bigger concern about Jermaine Burton. I tried to research this a little bit, looking at some of the highest ADOTs in the country over the last four years or so, and if any of those wide receivers had been any good um i don't know if i really saw someone like burton who

showed up there twice in a row but marvin medcash marvin mims uh i didn't go i don't know if i noticed him i was looking at guys that were like 17 yards or higher in college so marvin mims had 17.6 and 17 yard a dot in 2022 and it was 15.1 last year in the nfl and he did nothing so i think he needs to probably lower that ADOT or he's just going to be kind of like a, you know, Gabe Davis, Darius Slayton kind of guy, not too dependable. Dayami Brown, you know, was a high ADOT guy consistently. I found a lot of guys who had a year of high ADOT

and then it, like Puka Nakua, and then it dropped in his breakout season. Quentin John johnston same thing um xavier this was weird xavier worthy and ricky pearsall had adots around 17 yards in 2022 but then in 2023 it was below 11 yards for both of them so i didn't really find that many examples but burton is a guy who showed up 16.5 yard ad dot in 2022 20 yards last year third highest in the country baker 17.1 yard a dot last year but only 13.4 in 2022 which is which is fine and it was a good year for him but when i watch baker that is my concern i don't know that anyone shares that

concern but i just feel like everything he does was just like straight downfield i don't know that that he's going to, I am sorry to make this comparison because they went to the same college, but he does give me some Gabe Davis vibes. Jacob, what do you think? Do we have better, more well-rounded receivers that I'm giving them credit for in Baker and Burton? Honestly, I share that concern with Baker as well. Um, and with Burton, I think especially as the NFL continues to transition to more and more too-high-safety-zone coverage schemes, it's tough for these types of players to draw target shares that are going to make them fantasy relevant. You have to be a truly elite player to do that,

like a Mike Evans kind of guy. And I'm not sure if either of these will ever come close to that. I'm excited for these two because they're going to get on the field, I think. And that alone is enough for me to have interest in them in like the third round of dynasty drafts. And they both have decent draft capital attached to them as well. Burden, similar to McCaffrey, I think the reason he'll get on the field is his team uses three wide receiver sets at one of the highest rates in the league. And then obviously if T. Higgins leaves, then there's a clear path to playing time for him there too. But yeah, in year one, at least I think the targets are going to be very,

very low for Jermaine Burton. Um, obviously target competition, but then also like you mentioned, he's a pure field stretcher. Um, we saw that the collegiate level, but I think he's just a super talented dude. He was drafted in around three, even with character concerns. And as a true sophomore, Georgia, Jerm burton finished second on the team in receiving while sharing the field with brock bowers darnell washington drafted by the steelers lad mcconkey ad mitchell george pickens played for four games james cook and zamir white were on that team so like just insane amount of nfl talent all in one offense and still 19 year old jermaine burton was an important part of that team and what they did on offense and i think that's really interesting he He then goes to Alabama, leads the team in receiving for

two straight years to close out his career. So super, super talented guy, um, in a good offense, the targets might not be there, but maybe he scores touchdowns. You know, he, he maybe finds ways to be fantasy relevant at least week to week. So I think he's a guy for dynasty drafters and for potentially best ball drafters to pay attention to. I don't think he's going to be somebody you're going to be able to trust this year for fantasy, like if you're just setting lineups for season-long leagues. Yeah, Javon Baker to me is somebody who fits really well with what Drake May does, a power thrower, somebody who can go downfield.

But like Adam said, I have my concerns about how that relates to fantasy and if that's ever consistent. I have a very different take on Jermaine Burton. Maybe the ADOT was high at the college level and that's fine. But when you watch his tape, you can clearly see that after that elite tier of wide receivers, Malik Nabors, Romo Dunze, and Marvin Harrison Jr., I think you can make the case that Burton can be put in that second tier purely based on what you see on tape because he has different level traits than Javon Baker, his ability to get in and out of his breaks at the top of his route stem. And that is something that look, yes, you have two high safeties proliferating in the NFL. You have all these cover three cover six looks, but the area of the field that's still going to be

open and is always open in the NFL, especially against zone is that intermediate middle. If you have the quarterback who can anticipate where those windows are going to be and drive the football into those windows, Joe Burrow, the best anticipatory thrower in the NFL kind of looks like you a little bit, by the way, Jacob, I just noticed that doesn't Jacob kind of look like Joe Burrow right now with the hair like that sort of does. Yeah. We got another, we got another comp for Jacob. I know another Bob burgers kind of looks like it,

but what I see on tape with Burns' ability to break down in that intermediate middle and get open, I actually think he is by far and away the highest upside of anyone we're talking on the show from just a pure upside standpoint. I'm very high on this fit with Joe Burrow. I'm going to bring up an image here. See if we

think this looks like... I like that. I like that point of working the intermediate deep area of the field, the middle. Yep, that's the area where Burrow dominates. Let me give you guys two names in Dynasty. I feel like in Dynasty, if a rookie wide receiver does very little in his rookie year, some people just give up on him. Marvin Mims, Jalen Hyatt.

I think similar players to what we're talking about here, field stretchers. Marvin Mims, Jalen Hyatt, Javon Baker, and Jermaine Burton. Who's your favorite in that group? I mean, Burton by far. I wouldn't put Burton in the mix with those players. I think Burton's the best player. I don't think Burton is the same kind of player as those players, personally.

That's interesting. Okay. Oh, wait. What do you think about Burton versus A.D. Mitchell? I think you have a similar rookie setup. Similar setup, similar players. I was higher on. A.D. Mitchell is my wide receiver four in this class.

I agree with what Ballard said about A.D. Mitchell. There are very few guys who can, at that size and that speed, get in and out of their breaks. I think Burton does a good job of it, a very good job of it. I think A.D. Mitchell maybe does a special job of it, especially when you watch him in the red zone. Some of the routes he just won just was consistently with his footwork and his release package off the line of scrimmage.

And it was a much more diverse release package as well for A.D. Mitchell. It's just a matter of quarterback getting the ball there, and Quinn Ewers did a poor job of that. All right, it just hit me. Jacob looks like Jimmy Jr. from Bob's Burgers. That's what Victor said. I don't watch enough Bob. I don't know. I've never seen Bob's Burgers. I watch Bob Burgers. I've been compared to two

characters. It's him and then his girlfriend, Tina, who you can see in the top left. People say I talk like Tina. You do kind of talk like her, though. I will give that. That is classic. The look of Jimmy and the voice like Tina. Yeah, you have the look of... You do kind of talk like her, though. I will give that. I will give that. That is classic.

The look of Jimmy and the voice of Tina. Wonderful. You do kind of talk like that. All right, let's take a break here on Fantasy Football today. We're going to talk about some gems at tight end. Maybe a couple of TV shows, too. I want to see what Schneier thinks about them, but we'll be right back on FFT.

Metrolinks and Crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful. But we'll be right, and stay safe. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey, no, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations conversations you can now make the first move or not with opening moves you simply choose a

question to be automatically sent to your matches then sit back and let your matches start the chat download bumble and try it for yourself all right welcome back you watched baby reindeer dan no i've heard that is interesting. That is the best way to describe it. I can't even say if it was good. It was obviously good, but it wasn't enjoyable so much. I've heard it's unique. Perfect.

And I usually like shows that are different, so I might give it a shot because of that. I like shows that do something different and aren't the same. I'm phenomenal acting. You haven't seen it, Jacob, I assume. No, I haven't seen it. Baby Reindeer, yeah. It's about a stalker,

but it's also about a guy who, he wants to be a comedian, so you got a little bit of stand-up comedy in there. It's dark a lot of times. Kind of funny. I don't know if I want, do I recommend it? You gotta not be in the mood to laugh or like smile.

You get, but it's only five or six episodes. Uh, so baby reindeer. And then this is an old one that I just finished. Oh, Ted Lasso. Oh,

okay. Yeah. Ted Lasso. I've seen it all. I personally feel like it's fallen off a good amount, but I've seen it all. It did, but I loved it.

I loved it. I loved it at the beginning. I would say I just kind of liked it at the end. No, season one of it. I loved it. I loved it at the beginning. I would say I just kind of liked it at the end. No, season one of Ted Lasso was legendary. And then after that, you need to watch Shogun. That's what you need to watch.

It doesn't sound like something I'd like. It was a nine, five, nine, five out of a 10. Really? What happened to the word? What happened to the word point there?

Who says nine, five? It's clearly you say 9.5. No, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't do 9.5. You do 9.5 there. Everybody knows that. And here's how I'll describe it to you. One quick sell. It's Game of Thrones-esque when it comes to the politics. Yeah.

Okay. But to Game of Thrones without dragons and all the magic and stuff. Okay. By the way, when is that coming back? Oh, next month. That's coming back next month. Yeah. What are you,

uh, what are you watching Jacob? Anything? Um, invincible. I know Dan likes that. Yeah. It's a, it's an eight,

six. No, invincible is probably like a nine, four. It is. It's probably the best version of superhero i've ever seen because it's dark anytime you this is how you hook me for superhero stuff it needs to be dark and humorous have you seen the boys yes another one i like a lot nine three no that one's more of like an eight

nine for me okay all right let's talk about five late round tight ends three that dan likes and uh three two that Jacob likes. I can do my math here. One of them is actually Ben Sinnott, who wasn't a late round. When we said late round, do we mean in fantasy drafts? Yeah, I didn't know we were allowed to count Ben Sinnott because I would have put him in there too. Are you sure it's Sinnott?

You keep calling him Sinnott. Are we sure it's not Sinnott? Why do you think it's Sinnott? Why do you think for one second that you're right about this and i'm wrong true history would say that you are definitely correct but you had some pronunciations the other day on the show when we're doing our drafts and i was like i don't know about that no they're all right you had a couple that were definitely probably not right what was the one give me one remember you hit a cup what was the one there was a definite miss that you kept saying over and over and maybe maybe it's Dylan Laub.

I think you're calling him Lauby or something. It's Lauby. It's Lauby or Lauby. I watched like a hundred clips of it. Are you kidding? I'm only kidding. Just so the listeners know, Adam's most likely right, and I'm just jarring. At first I thought it was Lauby.

Then I went back and listened. I think it might be Lauby. Okay. Anyway. It's not Lauby. It's definitely not luby all right dan theo johnson for the giants around four pick jared wiley of the chiefs also in round four i think there were seven tight ends drafted around four six or seven yeah and tanner mclaughlin

of the bangles and actually jacob likes eric all of the bangals. McLaughlin drafted in round six, all in round four. But Dan, your guys are Theo Johnson, Jared Wiley, and Tanner McLaughlin. Yeah, we'll start with a quick one on Theo Johnson, who was the most athletic tight end in this draft class, the ninth most athletic tight end in the history of the Combine. His athletic profile, when you put him up back-to-back, is almost identical to Jimmy Graham's coming out of college, which is an insane thing. He lined up in the slot 38% of the time in line, 47% out wide, 9.8%.

They used him in some ways like the old Bill Belichick, Gronk Hernandez offense, where you'd have Gronk lined up as a boundary receiver running those in breaking routes. I'm really excited about that. His usage, his athleticism, how it translates to the next level. His seven touchdowns were the second most among FBS state ends. Watch his tape and you probably will see that he should have had 11 to 13 touchdowns. That's how bad Drew Aller was last year from a ball placement standpoint, from a processing standpoint.

There's so much meat on the bone, just like any of these Penn State, Michigan type wide receivers like Nico Collins from years ago, because the system was bad and the quarterback play was so bad. And because the athleticism we've seen over time that what you want to make the bets you want to make at the tight end position from college the NFL is basically all athleticism that's really the guys who break out are the guys with the athletic traits to break out so I'm making a bet on the most athletic tight end in a long time who I think does a really good job on film catching away from his frame being a a hands catcher, showing the ability to get in and out of his breaks for a guy his size. And just there's, there's an opportunity in my mind when you're six foot six to 60

to be in every down tight end, somebody who just doesn't come off the field because you can block as well. So I just see potential there for 90, you know, 80, 90%, 85%, 90% snap share early in his career. So do you think Theo Johnson has a better season than Daniel Bellinger from a past? Okay, if Waller retires. If Waller retires, correct. Jared Wiley, round four pick of the Chiefs. Yeah, quick one on Jared Wiley, who made my list as well.

Just a fun mover. When you watch him, you're reminded in a lot of ways. It's easy. I mean, I'm not going to say this name because it's crazy and he's not this name, but watching his movement skills at his size, it's very easy in my mind to see why the Chiefs, the team with Andy Reid and Travis Kelsey, who found Travis Kelsey late in the draft out of Cincinnati, would like him. His relative athletic scores are, yes, he's the 85th most athletic tight end out of 1,200 in the history of the combine. That's a skill set I can bet on. You put that type of mover, you know, 6'5", lengthy guy, really moves in a lot of ways like a Travis Kelsey,

with Patrick Mahomes, with Andy Reid. I'm basically making the bet based on that. His movement skills, his athleticism, and where he joined. Jared Wiley of the Chiefs. And last one, Tanner McLaughlin of the Bengals. And then we can transition right to Eric Hall. What's that? Very deep cut because they did draft Eric Hall before him in the same class, another tight end. But I just can't not put McLaughlin in after watching so much Arizona film. I really like their quarterback coming out next year, Noah Fafita. He's 5'10", but he is such an electric prospect. And when you watch him,

you see a lot of McLaughlin. And what I'm reminded of, he's 6'5", 241, 461 speed. So he's not your traditional wide tight end. He's the move tight end. And I'm just in my head when I watch him. And then I found the landing spot with Joe Burrow on the Bengals. I just was thinking about last year, what do teams give the Bengals? They give up the seam. These move tight ends are just always open up the seam. And Burrow ends are just always open up the seam, and Burrow is so good at just getting the ball out with anticipation there. Tanner Hudson had a little sun run with him last year, despite playing 13 snaps a game.

And Tanner Hudson is a worse version of what McLaughlin can bring from an athleticism speed standpoint. So you put an anticipatory thrower, the best in the NFL, and Joe Burrow with a tight end who's going to have the seam open all the time. And I just think there's potential here for a lot. He was a sleeper for a lot of people. I know Ryan Wilson was a huge fan of him, who does our draft coverage over at CBS, does a great job at that.

So you can see it when you watch him. He gets open, and he has the size and the length to really fit into those windows and zone coverage. Yeah, so would you rather, if you were on the clock in the third round of your draft or something, you take a McLaughlin or his teammate Eric All? I'm taking Eric All, probably, based on draft capital. McLaughlin's not someone you have to draft in your dynasty leagues.

He's someone you can pick up at the end of the rookie drafts and add it for your dead roster spots. All right, Jacob, you have Eric All and Ben Sinet as your rookie gems. And I'll throw out Jaheim bell to the Patriots to get a third and to get a true late round guy. Yeah. Not, not cheat with Ben Sinet.

Um, insane yardage after the catch guy. Uh, he didn't, we fell all the way to the seventh round. So I just assume he won't ever matter for fantasy, but, uh,

Jaheim bell, if you are looking for somebody in new England who might might um break out at some point he's interesting so ben sinet uh we mentioned the ras score for jared wiley which i'm psyched about as a chiefs fan ben sinet was even better 33rd out of 1200 just insane athletically he also had the highest average depth of target of the titans in class, 10 yards, which is exciting. I think he can stretch the field, but he also has some juice after the catch. My model, I use like true media to find some player comparisons for him in terms of the way that he was used and also the size and athleticism comparisons. We had TJ Hawkinson, Greg Dulcich, and Dawson Knox.

So you attach round two draft capital to that profile. And I'm really really really excited for senate here should be on the field right away um the last thing i want to mention with him is he had by far the highest off target rate in college so i was really impressed that he's able to be productive even with such poor quarterback play it was 18 off target rate for ben senate the next highest was theo johnson to dan's point 11 um definitely some meat on the bone left for those two guys in terms of how their production could translate

with better quarterback play. Eric All for Cincinnati also wasn't even picked in our drafts that we did last week, the rookie draft. So those were three rounds. In a four-round draft, he might get selected, but he really is somebody you're going to be able to get pretty cheap. So he was at Michigan for four years,

only one of which resulted in like a significant route running sample. Um, in 2021, Eric all was second on the team and receiving yardage. He outproduced Luke schoonmaker. Um, I never actually learned how to pronounce that. He was the second roundround pick for Dallas, and he got outproduced by a younger tight end in Eric All on the same team. All missed basically all of 22 with a herniated disc, and then in 2023 he was at Iowa, and he was extremely productive when he was on the field.

But then he did miss a lot of that season with injury. But when on the field, All accounted for 51% of Iowa's receiving yards, which is by far the highest of any of the tight ends that have been drafted recently. So the highest is Trey McBride at 42%. Then he got like Sam Laporte at 39%, 51% for Eric Hall last year at Iowa. So I think he has a chance to be a productive pro and then a good landing spot. I'm curious how you think he fits into um the type of role you were describing for mclachlan in cincinnati don't you think he could be used in the same way he could potentially be used in the same way he's not the same level athlete in my mind as mclachlan that's how you pronounce it i'm not even positive myself okay mclachlan mclachlan i'm he's not the same type of athlete as him, in my mind.

But he's maybe the more complete tight end, and so he can get on the field sooner. And he can work from the slot. He can, yeah. Eric Hall's career in line tight end target, or just route rate, was 60%. So that was the third lowest behind only Brock Bowers and Jaheim Bell, who I mentioned are like clear yardage after the catch guys that teams are really using in a lot of different ways.

All was similar to those guys and how he was used. He was only in line at tight end for just over half of his snaps. McLaughlin it is. And I don't know, I guess you didn't hear my amazing team name on a recent podcast. Dan. No, I'm behind on some pods.

Sin it to win it. Okay. If his name is actually pronounced in it, that's good. I still think it might be Sinat. It's Sinat pronounced that way. that's how you can remember it what was your what was your manoa one because i just picked them up in a fantasy league and i want to turn my name back to that i'm just taking your name yeah i know you created it it was too good i want it is he back by the way is he good again he's back he's pitching again he pitched him what was the manoa name it was alec menorah alec menorah

okay yeah i'm doing that yeah um good job malcolm anoa is a thing again look at this guy one of the strangest stories i mean he was like an ace and then he was horrible and then he was kind of like actually i have a better version of that name light the manoa that's great yep it's better than than alexora, actually. Well, I didn't say Alex because his name is Alec. You know, six of one, half does the other. So that's Dan and Jacob. Thank you, guys.

Great stuff here on Beyond the Box Score and Beyond the TV Show. One final thing for those tallying at home. This was the second time in recent weeks that Adam told me before the show that he will, quote-unquote, kick my butt in tennis. This remains to be seen, but what I will say is with all this trash talk, it's happening, and I will not be taking it easy on him. I'm playing a lot. Like I said, five times in the last ten days. I'm going to rack it for the first time this summer when I play you,

and I'll still beat you. And I'm thinking it's probably going to be, based on some scouting report you gave me of yourself, I'm thinking it's going to be 6-1 or 6-2. I loved you guys sizing each other up before we get on the air. Like, you got topspin? You got topspin? Oh, no?

Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I don't hit it with topspin. I don't know how to do that. Dan does. That's going to be a problem for me. But by the time I play you, I'm going to be a lot better. And I truly think I'm going to beat you. Are we going to record this? Are me. By the time I play you, I'm going to be a lot better. I truly think I'm going to beat you. Are we going to record

this? Are we going to make some content out of this? It's going to be so bad. Why is it going to be bad? Who's going to want to watch me? I don't even want to watch Djokovic and Nadal play tennis. We'll talk about this off air. I disagree with this take entirely, but we'll talk about why.

Nobody's going to watch me and you play Dennis. People will watch. Okay. All right. Jacob and Dan, thank you very much. Thanks to Debo for producing today. Schaefer will be back next week.

Have a great weekend, everybody. We'll talk to you on Monday on Fantasy Football Today.