Fantasy Football Today - Six Player Debates: FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! (03/27 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts Are you ready for some rankings disputes? Let's start with Garrett Wilson vs. Puka Nacua (1:25) and Keenan Allen vs. Cooper Kupp (8:00). How much of a boost will Aaron Rodgers provide to Wilson? How much do the old guys have left in the tank? ... Some news and notes (16:00) including our thoughts on the new kickoff rules and the trade deadline. Maybe we shouldn't have a trade deadline at all! Then the guys debate Saquon Barkley vs. Travis Etienne (26:40) and Rachaad White vs. Derrick Henry (32:10) ... We finish up with Tee Higgins vs. Michael Pittman (40:00) and Brock Purdy vs. Jordan Love (50:45). Which of those wide receivers has more upside? Should we just forget about everything that happened with the Bengals in 2023? ... Email us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dynasty/id1696679179 SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aHlmMJw1m8FareKybdNfG?si=8487e2f9611b4438&nd=1 Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is Fantasy Football Today from CBS Sports. What a play! Can you believe this? No, I can't. It's time to dominate your fantasy league. This is going to go the distance. Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. People love it when we fight.

I get that feedback all the time. So we're going to do it today with some rankings disputes. Player debates, courtesy of the folks on Twix on Twitter. Garrett Wilson versus Puka Nakua, Saquon Barkley versus Travis Etienne, Brock Purdy versus Jordan Love, and more. You guys ready? Ready? Dave Richard?

I'm ready. Bring it on. Heath, ready? You good? Oh, yeah, very much. Heath with the comment of the year before the show rankings debates in march i yeah i didn't even look at the rankings sometimes i go rankings debates and i actually look to see which what are different i just so so there's some of these that we might

not even disagree on yeah it's we're just gonna we're just gonna play it out we're just gonna play it out no i don't think anybody has garrett wilson ahead of puka nikua but we're gonna make the case we're to make the case. We're going to make the case. This is what people wanted to hear. They wanted to hear these debates. So without any further ado, in the green corner, Garrett Wilson was, let's see,

not even top 30 wide receiver per game in either of his first two seasons. Puka Nakua was number six per game in full PPR, number 10 per game in non-PPR as a rookie in 2023, set the rookie record for receptions and receiving yards. But Garrett Wilson was the 10th pick of the draft. Puka Nakua was the 177th pick in the NFL draft, different years. See a little pedigree difference there.

So let's debate it. Garrett Wilson versus Puka Nakua. Does everybody have Puka higher? Yes. Yep. No. Oh. I thought it was going to be a first-round knockout.

All right, Dave, put up those dukes. What do you got? So I actually looked at this before I came on the show today, and I did have Puka higher as of yesterday. I got to thinking a little bit, and I love what the Rams have done this offseason. I love what Puka higher as of yesterday, I got to thinking a little bit, and I love what the Rams have done this offseason. I love what Puka did, and I know what Garrett Wilson's first two years in the league look like.

But if Wilson is going to continue to see the lion's share of targets, he'll see more targets per game than Puka will. I think the quarterback upgrade isn't just Aaron Rodgers. It's Terod Taylor, too. If Rodgers misses time, Terod Taylor might be the second-best quarterback, as pathetic as that sounds, that Garrett Wilson will catch passes from. We heard from the Jets already during the owners' meetings that Mike Williams might not be ready to start the season. Even if he is, he'll be brought along slowly, just like Brees Hall did.

And I still love this talent. I still think that he's an outstanding wide receiver, and I just think that with Puka, he'll be good, no question about it. Will he be the best Rams wide receiver? Probably, but I think Garrett Wilson has a chance to be top five, and I don't know if I can say the same thing about Puka, so I will take the upside in a very close call between Puka and Garrett Wilson. Wasn't Puka already top five?

Did he finish top five last year? No, not per game. Sixth in PPR. Oh, yeah. No chance he could be top five. Okay. Can he do it again with a healthy Cooper Cup if Cup stays healthy for the whole year? Listen, it's really close.

I'm not going to hate on any. I don't think anybody is a, Oh my God, I can't believe this guy over that guy with these two players, they're both going to be ranked relatively close, drafted relatively close and hopefully perform relatively close, which would be, you know, the best case. I mean, look, obviously there, there's a lot to love about both of these players.

And you could say, you know, in somewhat similar setups with the one difference being and dave sort of alluded to this is that garrett wilson's competition for targets is probably not as tough as puka's competition for targets you know when you look at who the second receiver is because obviously cooper cup's track record suggests that he's better than anything that the jets have right now um even when mike williams is healthy i just think that there's better than anything that the Jets have right now, even when Mike Williams is healthy. I just think that there's a situation of a better offense right now for the Rams and better system for Puka Nakua.

And so that's why I give him a slight edge. I also have a little bit more faith in Matthew Stafford than I do in Aaron Rodgers, so that's part of it. But both these guys got offensive line upgrades. The thing that's going to be, I think, interesting is, you know, who has the better run game slash running back taking away touches. And they're both obviously very good based on what we saw last year with Breesaw and Kyron Williams.

I have a feeling the Jets are going to be a little bit more run heavy. And so that also gives, you know, for me, Puka a little bit of an edge. Heath, do any of the stats matter for Garrett Wilson in the first two seasons? Yes, they do. We fully expect there's going to be a major quarterback upgrade this year, and Aaron Rodgers will save Garrett Wilson and make him the guy that he was drafted to be and the guy that we keep saying that he is. But Aaron Rodgers is also extremely old

and coming off of a major injury and did not even play football last year. And so we, we have to at least consider what Garrett Wilson has produced in the NFL. And I will say this probably with a lot of the debates we just showed on the screen, there was a five fantasy point per game difference between these two last year.

That's an enormous, like I'm not sure Aaron Rogers makes that much of a difference. Okay. I'm, I want to butt in here and say that part of the reason why Puka averaged almost 18 PPR points per game was because he had nearly 24 PPR points per game in his first four without Cooper cup from weeks five through 17, all with Cup 15.7 PPR points per game. Still an edge over Garrett Wilson, but it's not five points. It's a big edge. That's 3.4 points.

I could still, it's still a pretty big edge. There's no question about it, but it's not as big. And he did it on fewer targets than what Garrett Wilson had over the course of the year. Two, two quick points here. One, the Jets have thrown 26 touchdown passes combined in their last two seasons so you could see rogers doing that just by himself this season garrett wilson has seven touchdowns in those two years garrett wilson caught three touchdowns right i mean the jets just been horrible um yeah yeah last thing sorry i do like i don't really know exactly what

to make of it but i do like this open metric that ESPN has. Garrett Wilson was 15th as a rookie and 5th last year. Puka Nakua was not even close. That doesn't mean I don't think Puka's great, but Puka was actually pretty low in that metric. But Garrett Wilson gets open. It might sound like I'm taking Wilson. I'm not, but I definitely see it.

And there are two significant injury risks in this situation, Aaron Rodgers and Cooper Cup. It might sound like I'm taking Wilson. I'm not, but I definitely see it. I mean, I definitely see it. And there are two significant injury risks in this situation, Aaron Rodgers and Cooper Cupp, and both of those injury risks favor Puka over Wilson. Well, what about Matthew Stafford as an injury risk? Well, I mean, but to your point, though, Dave, if they believe in Jimmy Garoppolo, I would say Garoppolo and Tyra Taylor are not necessarily big drop-offs from each other. Agreed. Yeah,

that's fair. That's, you know, the, the, the quarterbacks, the, the receivers there. Um,

I think just in terms of Garrett Wilson, you know, if you're looking for it, it's the numbers he put up in his rookie season without Zach Wilson, like 17.3. Yeah. 17.3 PPR points. Yeah.

I mean, look, they should be very close. They should be very close in production. That's the hope. Good stuff. All right, so somebody asked in the chat, Matt Weber asked, who was number one in that open metric?

And it was actually by a mile, by a landslide, Keenan Allen was number one last year. CeeDee Lamb, Khalif Raymond was third. Tyreek Hill, and then Garrett Wilson. But that brings us to our next debate. By the way, we have some news and notes to get to in a bit. We'll do that. But it's Keenan Allen versus Cooper Cup.

In the – what color are the bears? Like orangey? Whatever the cheapest color in the world is. In that corner, Keenan Allen. He has been top 13 per game in PPR in seven straight seasons. And he's going up against Cooper Cup. Cooper Cup has been,

was the number one wide receiver per game two straight seasons. Last year, though, he dropped down to 24th. He did have a partial game in there. He had a game without Matthew Stafford. He had a game where Stafford left early. But he also had it in.

He had a couple injuries that he dealt with here and he got whooped by Puka Nakua. But Heath first. Oh, actually, no. Does any does anybody have who has Keenan Allen ahead of Cooper Cup? I do. Who has Keenan Allen ahead of Cooper Cup? Heath does.

That's it. I do. OK, Heath, you can start Keenan Allen. Yeah, I think they're both I'm projecting both to be the wide receiver twos on their team. They both have significant injury concerns. But I think Cupps... I'm a little bit more worried about Cupps' health than I am Keenan Allen's health.

Cupps seems a little bit more like a recurring issue that they're concerned about managing. And we actually saw a drop-off in Cooper Cupps' level of play last year. When Keenan Allen was healthy, he was absolutely awesome. managing and we actually saw a drop off in cooper cup's level of play last year when keenan allen was healthy he was absolutely awesome and the one i'll lean on in every single one of these debates keenan allen was better last year okay dave jamie jamie why don't you go ahead why do you have cup ahead of allen i still think there's the chance and this is you know kind of probably a little

hypocritical after what we just talked about with with pinacua, but there's a chance where Cup could still be the number one receiver for the Rams in terms of production. I'm a little worried with Keenan Allen being older, DJ Moore being more productive than him, and a rookie quarterback coming in, whereas I trust, you know, a veteran quarterback helping his receiving core a little bit more than a rookie. So they're close. I wouldn't be surprised if Allen's better. You know, again, I think that's why we're talking about these players. I did find it funny that Caleb Williams rocked right past Keelan Allen at the Bears workout. Or his pro day, excuse me.

When the whole Bears contingent was there. Like, you didn't know him. Like, how is that beard not recognizable? And he's wearing Bears gear. But in any event, that's not relevant to this. But, yeah, I could see Allen being better. I just have a little bit more faith in Cooper Cup right now. Which beard do you like better between Keenan Allen's and Cooper Cup's?

Yeah, look at that. They are pretty similar. Yeah. Sexy. Look, I like that Cooper Cup had almost the same type of target per game as Pukunukuwa had last year when they were both healthy. And if you take out the one, this is a Naser stat all the way, week 11, Cooper Cup didn't even play 30% of the snaps. Take out that game from all the games he played,

he averaged almost 15 PPR points per game, had 8.6 targets per game. That's over 11 games. He also finished the season strong, 16.2 PPR points per game in his last three. Actually it's 18.6 in his last four on nine targets per game. I agree with Jamie. I think that there's a chance that Cooper cup, um, not necessarily dominates targets in LA, but if he's right, he, he, he should be fine. He should be right back to getting a lot of targets in that offense. Defenses are definitely going to have to pay back to getting a lot of targets in that offense. Defenses are definitely going to have to pay attention to Puka Nakua more in his second season, and that'll make things a little bit lighter on Cooper Cup. Whereas we're either going to get a major role change for Keenan Allen,

a major role change for DJ Moore, or a major role change for both Keenan Allen and DJ Moore. And this is a Chicago offense that wants to run the football a little bit. I know that they're going to draft their rookie quarterback. I don't think it means that they're suddenly going to become crazy pass heavy. They'll probably be right around 56, 57%. I'm very nervous about Keenan Allen seeing nine targets per game. And I'm also real nervous about what he's going to do touchdown-wise.

It is kind of funny, though, because there's no question Keenan Allen, even recently, has been a much better wide receiver than DJ Moore. I know DJ Moore is the future on that team, and Allen is older, but Cup's a lot older than Puka. The age difference there is even bigger. Sure. Are we quantifying that? I am also ranking DJ Moore ahead of Keenan Allen, but I don't think the odds of Cup being the number one over Puka is higher than the odds of Keenan Allen being the number one over DJ Moore. No, no, no.

I think you're right on that. It's also, though, it's a system change. It's a quarterback change. It's an environment change. I mean, he's going from playing in arguably one of the best situations indoors with Justin Herbert to going outdoors in that cold with a rookie quarterback. You know, and I just when when guys this age change teams, I'm almost always out. So I don't think it's going to be the same Keenan Allen.

We'll go to break in a minute here, but some, some Acer stat numbers that Dave mentioned, I actually didn't take away that, that. So this here's a sample size, right? And I didn't take away that game, that week 11 game, that cup left early.

I probably should have, but I had been Acer statting so much that I just got a little sick of it. So I was like, okay, let's take a look at 11 games last year. That Stafford cup and Akua all played together, not including the game Stafford left early with an injury, that Dallasord, Cup, and Nakua all played together, not including the game Stafford left early with an injury, that Dallas game.

We look at the other 11 games. If you should come away with anything here, it might be that Stafford was actually really good. Just the 17-game paces here. Stafford was on pace for 4,545 yards, 34 touchdowns, and 8 interceptions. Puka was on pace for 100 catches. Kup for 90 catches.

Puka, though, 1,623 yards. Kup, 1,074 yards. Not even close. Both were on pace for eight touchdowns. Kup had a lot more red zone targets and green zone targets. And Puka was on pace for 17 more targets overall but cup was kind of like the near the goal line guy cup had a very low catch rate last year curious if that goes back up if we see some better numbers because you know like like his pay his yards were

just not good enough and he had some terrible games all right right. His ADP in our draft so far has been just after round three. He went 55th in our most recent PPR mock. I'm taking him at 55th overall every single time. Okay. Beyond the Arc is a brand new show featuring daily NBA discussions with hosts John Gonzalez, Bill Ryder, and Ashley Nicole Moss, as well as regular appearances from nba champion avery johnson so this great hoops talk here download and follow beyond the arc wherever

you find this podcast we're going to take a break come back with some more notes and more player debates barkley versus etn rashad white versus derrick henry and more after this. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick?

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Busy NFL day yesterday. New rules. We talked about this actually on Monday's show but the hip drop tackle which apparently was causing a very high injury rate but the players didn't want to see it out and not all of them, most of them it seems did not, it's been banned so that has been banned, the hip drop tackle

there's a new kickoff rule where did Heath go? We lost Heath. Should Heath be the kicker? I was going to give everybody a position. Heath should be the kicker. Should he be on coverage? Should he be blocking or should he be returning?

Blocking. Okay, he's blocking. All right, I'm going to kick. I have to line up at the 35-yard line, which is where it was last year. Okay. Dave, you're on my team. You're going to be in coverage. You will line up at Jamie's 40-yard line.

Heath is blocking. He will be between the 30 and 35-yard line. And Jamie will be returning. He will be inside the 20, between the goal line and the 20-yard line. A touchback goes to the 30-yard line. That is wild to me.

No fair catches. No surprise onside kicks. You can do an onside kick, but you have to tell everyone we're doing an onside kick. And then you get to line up for more. Well, nobody does surprise onside kicks. I think you can't do an onside kick until the fourth quarter either. Is that right?

Did I read that right or am I making that up? I didn't see that. Liar. I'm a liar! How do you feel about the new kickoff rules? Love it. Unless all the league agrees that it's just not worth it to bother with the play

and they just do touchbacks every time. The 30 is a tough place to start, though. I agree, but it's, what, five yards more than the 25? Every coach that I heard asked about this at both media sessions was all in favor of it. Good. And then the Steelers did something brilliant, and they signed Cordero Patterson, which was smart.

I mean, listen, I think the special teams coaches are going to come up withero Patterson. It was smart. I mean, listen, I think the special teams coaches are going to come up with some fun ways. It's going to become a fun play. But once teams start to get burned too often, they're just going to kick it out of the end zone and it's going to be a touch bag. And the NFL is also moving.

Oh, Heath's back, by the way. Heath was blocking. The NFL is moving the trade deadline back one week, so now it will be at the beginning of week 10, just after week 9 ends. And then, you know, some people ask this about fantasy football. I'll ask it about regular football. Why even have a trade deadline?

So that teams aren't trading right before the playoffs? So what? Let them trade right before the playoffs. Why? Why not? Why not? Let them trade right before the playoffs. Why? Why not? Why not? I mean, yeah, why not? I mean, they took a step toward that by moving the trade deadline back a week. I know there'll never be a day where there's no trade deadline.

I don't think there will be. Like, imagine, like... Why not? What, the week before the Super Bowl, the Chiefs are going to trade for all the players that are going to be free agents at receiver. Playoffs, you can't trade once the playoffs start. But why not be able to make a trade in week 17 or 18? Just because? Just because it's never been done before?

There's probably a sensible answer for that. I mean, imagine the Giants this year. They're right in the hunt for a playoff berth and the Eagles go and trade for a linebacker that they need or a corner that they need. Now imagine the Giants did that. I mean, obviously go both ways.

But they would do that right before week 10. Do it right before week 17. I think it's to avoid tanking. I think that that's certainly one big reason. If you get to week 16 and you know your team's going nowhere, then you're absolutely going to tank for draft. We've literally seen two teams in the same division the last two years bench their starting quarterback just for the purposes of contract reasons.

They obviously aren't that concerned with tanking. But they did that at what point in the season? Derek Carr was the last two weeks of the season. Yeah, and Russ was the last two weeks. I don't know if that's what you were thinking of. Yeah, that's what he was thinking of. Right, but that's the last two weeks of the season. The trade deadline is at week 10,

so you've got eight weeks. I'm confused. Let's go to our next news item we get two wednesday games next year too theoretically theoretically no one's tanking at week 10 you know other than a team like the panthers were when what was the when was it the jacksonville decided they weren't going to start gardner minchu anymore that was like week 15 wasn't it always comes back to gardner minchu. The replay assist can now look at roughing the passer, late hit out of bounds, and intentional grounding. The in-season version of Hard Knocks

is going to follow all four teams of a division instead of just one team, maybe to take away any disadvantage that one team would have. Which division do you want to see? Truly the NFC East, I think. Of course. You do.

I don't even watch Hard Knocks, but there's a lot of intrigue there. I mean, Sirianni is like a cartoon. Hopefully it's a division where there's four competitive teams. Right. We don't want the NFC South. That could be a really tight race, though.

All right. There's going to be two Christmas Day games on Wednesday. That's interesting. Well, the caveat to it is that the two teams playing Wednesday will also play Saturday. So they'll have the same distance days or time between days as if you're playing Sunday, Thursday. That would be fun for us.

Really prioritize that player safety. That'll be fun for us. I don't think that will be fun. That will be fun for us. Really prioritize that player safety. That'll be fun for us. I don't think that will be fun. That will be fun for you guys, for you and JB. I celebrate Christmas. Heath celebrates Christmas. I don't love to work on Christmas. Why would you have to work? Just take the day off.

No, I mean, well, no, I'll do the show in the morning. I would love to be able to kick back and not have to... You can. I mean, that's your right. No, it's okay, man. Yeah. We already have three Thanksgiving games. I don't know. How do you feel about it, Heath? No comment. I shouldn't have said it.

Okay. Well, it'll probably be the Chiefs as one of the games. Probably. Tennessee head coach Brian Callahan said that... Dave, this is exactly what you were saying, right? That Calvin Ridley's role will be very similar to Jamar Chase's in the new Tennessee offense. Chase is a guy who lined up out wide 75% or more of his snaps every year. He has had a much lower ADOT and route depth throughout his career.

Get him in motion, line him up a yard off the line of scrimmage so he can't get pressed yeah he said that he's looking forward to seeing some uh mismatches not just for for ridley but also for hopkins yeah and and zach taylor also talked about maybe moving chase a little bit more inside this year uh with tyler boyd being on can't wait to see ridley and hopkins getting open and having passes go three feet over their head or two feet in front of them into the ground. It's going to be awesome. I'm a little bit excited about Will Lewis. Me too.

I hope he proves me wrong because then that will be an offense that we'll be very excited to have pieces of. The commanders have not decided on who to pick at number two yet. That's what they're saying, and I believe them. They also signed another offensive lineman, Michael Dieter. Anthony Richardson expected to be ready for the upcoming spring practices. Which quarterback will Cliff Kingsbury ruin now? What do you mean?

That's just what I'm thinking. You think he ruined Kyler Murray? I don't know if he ruined Kyler, but I bet we see better numbers from Kyler this coming year. I don't think Kyler really ever hit like his ceiling with Kingsbury. He had some good years, but not like amazing. All right.

Then he got hurt along the way. He got hurt. Matt LaFleur talked about using Josh Jacobs in the passing game. Tis the season for coaches to talk about using their running backs in the passing game. But we have definitely seen that from Josh Jacobs. We were, we were kind of joking, like,

the amount of coaches that said they can't wait to get their hands on X player that they signed. Right. Can't wait to see them on the field. Looking forward to seeing what they can do. Well, you just paid these people billions and millions of dollars.

You have an idea of what they're going to do. Probably. The Steelers did sign Cordaro Patterson. He's a return specialist. Do you guys think, Heath, do you think Cordaro Patterson takes away from Najee and Warren? I would never doubt Arthur Smith's ability to run a fantasy football option.

But I don't really want to talk about that. I want to talk about Matt's comment that J.J. McCarthy's odds to go second are now at plus three 50. They were at plus 2,500 two days ago. And I think everyone should throw that in the garbage. I said almost the exact same thing 11 months ago about will Levis. At one point,

will Levis was like minus 4,000 to go to the Colts during the draft, and then they took Anthony Richardson. These odds are not indicative of what's going to happen. No, never are. It's totally based on what's getting out into the media. Are you saying that then you're not going to rank J.J. McCarthy second? No, J.J. McCarthy is going to be around ninth in a super flex draft until he's drafted higher than I think he's going to be. Sure. Okay, let's see.

Future New York Giant, J.J. McCarthy? Yeah, it's very good. That would be the absolute best thing that could happen. I would love it. Okay, I don't know what that means. He signed for the new kick return rule. What's that, who? Cordero.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I said. He's going there primarily for that. Yes, he's going to ruin Najee and everybody by taking work away. Thank you, Arthur. But I think you're going to see a lot of those 1B type of running backs working on that kick return game until the league realizes that they're just going to have touchbacks.

All right, let me finish up here on the news and notes. The Rams are signing Buffalo cornerback Tredavious White to a one-year deal that could be worth up to $10 million. He's a guy who's torn his ACL and last year he tore his Achilles, but was once an elite corner Tredavious White to the Rams. Damian Harris is retiring. Good career for Damian Harris. And congratulations on retirement. And yeah, good luck to you.

J.K. Dobbins has been cleared for football activity. He tore his Achilles in week one. So we'll see where he ends up. And the Steelers signed a deep threat receiver, Quez Watkins, formerly of the Eagles. All right, let's get back to the player debates. In this quarter, wearing ugly green after beautiful blue for six seasons, Saquon Barkley versus Travis Etienne.

Etienne did average slightly more fantasy points than Barkley in 2023. In 2022, it was not close. Barkley was much better, even if you removed the James Robinson games for the Jaguars. Okay, does anybody like EtN better than Barkley? I do. Anyone else? Okay, Heath, take it away.

ETN's younger. I think he's going to catch more passes. I think Saquon's situation, while it's an improvement in terms of the run blocking, could actually be a downgrade in terms of the pass catching. And the touchdowns will probably be about the same. I'd guess he scores around 10. And I think ETN's situation improved just a little bit.

Gabe Davis is one of the best run blocking wide receivers in the league. Mitch Morse was much better at run blocking as a center than the guy that they had in that position last year. So both guys saw a slight upgrade to their position. This could change depending on what teams do in the draft. the guy that they had in that position last year. So both guys saw a slight upgrade to their position. This could change depending on what teams do in the draft. But right now, I also think we see more overall touches for Travis Etienne and Saquon Barkley. Okay. Dave, your rebuttal. You have Barkley ahead of Travis Etienne.

By a notch. I can't wait for Nick Sirianni to get his hands on Saquon Barkley. I actually, I'm looking forward to seeing how Kellen Moore morphs the Philadelphia offense a little bit to include Saquon. And I don't think you sign Saquon Barkley without trying to utilize him for all of his strengths. And one of his absolute best strengths is catching the ball out of the backfield. And so, yes, I'm worried about just how many touchdowns he'll get, but I also think that he will see a decent amount of targets and catches and maybe even flirt with that 50 catch

mark in Philadelphia. Yes, I think it's possible, but on top of that, I think he's the best running back that the Eagles have had in the last couple of years. That's not saying much. Working behind that offensive line, his efficiency should go up. And when you hear about Doug Peterson saying that Travis Etienne, they need to manage his workload, they want to use another running back, I don't know who that running back is. For now, there isn't anybody that really scares me. But just the comment on it and the fact that it came so early in the offseason makes me kind of buy it and that they don't want to overwork Travis Etienne.

And so if I'm drafting Etienne, I'm kind of banking on him for those big plays. Whereas with Saquon, I think I'm banking on workload, some short yardage goal line work, and an uptick in targets compared to other running backs in Philadelphia previously. I'm just waiting for Jamie to jump in. I guess he was waiting for me to throw it. I don't know if you want to go back to which guy you want to talk about.

No, you have Barkley. I think for, for Barkley, you know, Dave said 50 catches. Deandre Swift was what? 39.

So I'm missing a game. I think Barkley should get 50 catches based on being a better part of the passing. And I don't know if he's a better pass catcher per se. I would, I would say he is, but not that Swift can't do that. So I think 50 catches is definitely possible. You go back to when they had a better offense coordinator and a running back I think that they trusted maybe a little bit more

than Miles Sanders had 11 touchdowns two years ago. So Barkley should be able to run for hopefully close to 10 touchdowns and maybe get 12 to 15 total touchdowns depending on how things go for his potential role in the passing game. We've talked about this a lot. How many times Swift fell down at the one that led to, you know, additional touch, push touches that may or may not still be the same because of the retirement of Jason Kelsey. So we'll see if that is still a significant element of their offense. I don't think it's going away by any stretch, but will it be the same based on the center change?

So I think Barkley's just in a little bit of a better situation. I love ETN, and Heath alluded to this. Their offensive line upgrades should be better in Jacksonville. As Dave said, I don't think there's necessarily, between Dearness Johnson and Tank Bigsby, anybody that should scare you about ETN coming off the field significantly. I'm a little bit concerned, and you can make the case for the Eagles too. If things go bad quickly in Jacksonville, could there be a coaching change?

Because it was bad last year. And they talked a lot this week about the injuries, how much that played a part. Trevor probably shouldn't have played when he had the knee and the ankle injuries. And playing through that, Peterson sort of addressed that, saying that we needed him to be there, not just in the games, but in practice. And that was just a big part of why they struggled in some game situations because he was missing practice reps. But Kirk was banged up.

Offensive line was a mess. They had the left tackle suspension for Cam Robinson. So there was a lot of things going on there offensively that hopefully will help ETN in a better spot. But I think if they struggle again, given what the expectations are could peterson find his way out the door wouldn't surprise me again you say the same thing about sirianni based on how things were unfolding last year but i just feel a bit better about barkley than i do about etn just in terms of what the high-end potential can be yeah peterson by the way is not committed to taking over play

calling duties he gave it to press taylor year. They split it the year before. There could be some changes in that regard. And man, the offensive line is, it's almost like comparing the giants to the Eagles. That's how bad the Jaguars were last year. And hopefully, I mean,

we talked about why they should be better. Mitch Morris, you know, re-signing Ezra Cleveland, who they acquired mid-season. Hopefully, no suspension or injuries at left tackle. But it's a big gap. And they went two spots.

These two guys went two spots apart in our latest draft. Barkley went with the fourth pick of round two, maybe the fifth pick of round two, and Etienne went two picks later. All right, next up. It's in the pewter corner. Is that their color, right? The Buccaneers?

Yes. Rashad White, RB10 per game in full PPR. He averaged 16 PPR points per game. Derrick Henry will be facing Rashad White. I should have mentioned he's coming in the ring now. And Derrick Henry averaged 16 PPR points per game. Derrick Henry will be facing Rashad White. I should have mentioned he's coming in the ring now. And Derrick Henry averaged 14. Rashad. Yeah.

Derrick Henry averaged 14 PPR points per game. However, Henry averaged 19 or more points per game in four straight seasons before 2023. And again, White averaged only 16 PPR points per game last year. However, White averaged 18 PPR points per game from week seven on. So he did show he was capable of a lot more than that. All right, so it's Rashad White versus Derrick Henry. I do think that this is going to be a full PPR discussion here, and I think that's going to matter.

Is the bell still loud? People are saying it's loud. I already lowered it. Yes. How's that? A little lower. Lower still? Yeah yeah it's just a little lower better that's just a little lower okay how about perfect perfect nailed it who's got rashad white over derrick henry i do i do oh everybody i'm gonna go ahead'm going to go ahead.

I'm going to go ahead and make a Derek Henry case. Ready? Okay, good. Yeah. Rashad White is not good in terms of per carry. This has got to be the worst. One of the worst running backs in football,

two straight years, pretty good in the passing game. I will give what? Yeah. YPC for life. YPC for life. I'll give him credit. He's been very good in the passing game,

but he's got no top end speed. Can't break away from anyone. They simply cannot just give him the ball 280 times on the ground. He got 272 carries last year. His longest play was 38 yards. He had three carries longer than 16 yards all season. So if you're looking for a running back

who is going to lose his job unexpectedly and is drafted in the first three rounds, Rashad White is the leading contender. That's not going to happen with Derrick Henry. And that is why. Do I believe this, by the way? I don't know, but it's definitely on my mind when I evaluate Rashad White.

That's not going to happen with Derrick Henry. That's why you should take Henry ahead of Rashad White. Boom! Okay, who's going? Jamie, jump in there. Yeah, I don't necessarily think he's the worst running back in football. I don't think that he doesn't have the ability to break long runs. You talked about this a lot last year

in terms of what the matchups were for Rashad White and the defenses that he was facing. Um, I do think the role in the passing game is huge here. You know what he should be able to continue to accomplish by comparison to Derrick Henry. And so if, and if you're looking at the screen on YouTube, if the total touchdowns are within five, I'll say, uh, the reception total could be within 40, based on what Rashad White's capable of. He already has a 50-catch season on his resume. So in PPR, that's going to be significant. The total yards may actually be equal in what they're able to do.

And so age should matter here too. If you're looking at Derrick Henry, I know he's been superhuman, but father time we know is undefeated. And so if something happens to Henry and he doesn't, you know, able to sustain himself and you can say the same thing I was about Rashad White, but I'll, I'll take my chances with the younger guy, the guy more involved in the passing game and still the featured back on Tampa Bay.

I don't think Sean Tucker or chase Edmonds or the guys that they have there are necessarily taking them off the field for significant stretches. Sure. But obviously if they draft somebody and especially somebody that has some explosiveness to them, it'll change the equation. So this is all in pencil as of this moment, but I love how white finished last year, 17.9 PPR points per game. I believe that's the same average that Derek Henry had in his 13 games when he

had at least 14 touches. So I think that that's good. I agree. Rashad White is not explosive, but he also doesn't have a lot of negative runs. He also kind of does. I'll take that one back. He does have a lot of negative runs. He was successful inside the five, the work in the passing game, 4.4 targets per game in his last 12, nine of those last 12 games over 15 PPR points. If he's got that opportunity, I don't think we can ignore it. And I don't think the Bucks offense is going to go backward in its second year with Baker Mayfield. They're actually like that. They changed offensive coordinators. I don't know. And then

I think, I think why it's okay. Now, if you're a big Derrick Henry Stan and you don't care about his age, you're going to take Henry ahead of Rashad white. And I totally get that. And I wouldn't even be surprised if his ADP Henry's ADP is better or high. Oh, it will. 100%.

Yeah. Wouldn't surprise me in the least, but that just makes white a better bargain. I'm, I'm going with white as of now. Yeah. And he thought I'm actually quite concerned. They were only 20thth in scoring last year so it's not like they had a great season but i am quite concerned about baker mayfield and the inconsistencies of his career and this

offense taking a step back i'm much more concerned about that as it will affect mike evans and or chris godwin than i am the running backs Baker Mayfield's consistently had a very high check down rate. Rashad White's caught like 90% of his targets over the last two seasons. If it's a PPR discussion, I don't think this is close. Rashad White's going to catch two or three more passes per game. And I think he has more yards per game. And if we're going to talk about risks with Rashad White,'re talking about a 30 year old running back changing teams how often has that been a positive it doesn't really happen that often so yeah maybe raheem mostert i guess yeah no you're

right uh okay i gotta get to a break here i agree by the way i take rashad white and ppr i enjoyed making the case for derrick henry. So how about half PPR, guys? Who are you taking, White or Henry? White. White. Dave? White. Negative three PPR.

Oh, a non-PPR. It's Henry. Neither one, because who would play in such a stupid league? Adam Azer. Never played a negative three PPR league. Anybody interested, let me know. All right alright we'll be back after this quick break we got Higgins vs. Pittman and a quarterback debate after this

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Don't overthink how you hydrate life's full of choices smart water is a simple one okay let's see how this works here could barely hear the thing come on now all right in this corner as we continue our player debates it's t higgins higgins was wide receiver 13 or i'll stop with that wide receiver 13 or 14 per game in 21 and 22 last year he wasn't even close in 2023 pitman has never finished higher than 18th per game. That was in full PPR last year. So Higgins has been better.

But who are you guys taking? Not last year, but overall Higgins has been better. Who are you taking, T. Higgins or Michael Pittman? Is anybody taking Higgins here? No. Silence. I think I am legitimately taking T. Higgins here. i don't even have to fake it i think as an azerstatter that would make sense because t higgins over in his career because i was thinking about

like t higgins injury problems and then you look at the games played and it's like oh he played 16 and 14 and it's not that bad but he has six games i think in the last three years where he's played less than half the snaps and several of those was like one snap or two snaps. And I just worry about a guy who's not happy, has requested a trade, and may have to just play on the franchise tag or may end up in a much worse situation if they go ahead and acknowledge that trade. Is he going to play through a bunch of injuries? Josh Jacobs didn't last year. All right, so let me – would this conversation change for you if he signs a long-term deal?

Because we have seen guys be unhappy about their contracts, request trades, whatever, and then whatever, they get a contract or they just deal with it. But if they sign him to a long-term deal and everything is hunky-dory in Cincinnati, would you then take Higgins over Pittman? No. It'd be closer, but probably not still.

So here's just a quick argument for T. Higgins. I'm basically throwing out last year. Because even when Joe Burrow got, you know, even when Joe Burrow... T. Higgins has never scored as many fantasy points in a season as Michael Pittman did last year. Just hang on, hang on. Here's the quick argument. Even when Joe Burrow rounded into form last year, which let's say it was week five, when he faced Arizona and he torched them and he was very good for the next five games,

Higgins only played one game in that stretch with his normal snap share. He missed two of the games. He was limited in two of the games. He only played one game in that stretch. He missed two of the games. He was limited in two of the games. He only played one game in that stretch. He had a hundred yards. I'm basically throwing out last year. I am looking at what T Higgins did in the two previous seasons. He was wide receiver 13 per game, wide receiver 14 per game. I feel comfortable with him doing that again. Pittman might have more upside. I think he definitely has more downside than that. I don't think his upside is that much higher than wide receiver 13 per game.

So I'm just going to take T Higgins. I think he can replicate what he did in 21 and 22, which wasn't as good as what Pittman did last year. Yes, it was Pittman because he only scored like three or four touchdowns. He was wide receiver 18 per game with Gardner Minshew. I, I,

but he didn't score as many fantasy points as Pittman did. Oh, full season, but per game? Oh, you mean Pittman scored more per game than Higgins did? Pittman averaged 15.6 PPR points per game last year. Forget about who his quarterback was. That was his average for the year. That's higher than anything T. Higgins has done in three years. That's interesting because Higgins finished higher.

But what did Higgins average in 21 and 22? Got to be pretty close to 15.2 in 2021. So very close 13.8 in 2022. So if you're telling me that he's going to be right in between those numbers, let's just call it 14.5. Yeah. I think there's a chance. The 13.8 just doesn't work for me, honestly,

because he barely played in three games. Yeah, we got a throwout last year. We got a throwout. We got an Atherstatt the year before. You have to look at his healthy games with a healthy Joe Burrow. What about Michael Pittman's games with Jonathan Taylor versus Zach Moss? How much does that impact things? I don't really look at – I don't even know what to make of him.

We're not going to Atherstatt him, Jamie. We're not trying to make an argument for him. No, no, no. I think I don't even know what to make of Pittman because... What about the games where Shane Steichen had a cold? He played with a different quarterback. Who can forget the Shane Steichen cold game? In all seriousness here, you have to

evaluate T. Higgins based on when he's been healthy and when Joe Burrow's been healthy and when Jamar Chase has been on the field because Higgins is better when Chase is off the field. I don't think Higgins has wide receiver one upside. I think he has high-end wide receiver two upside, but I think he's pretty safe there. I think we could do an hour-long show

based on which games of T. Higgins should we count. No, I already told you what it is. I summed it up. And I think that should tell us something. He's been good. He's been really good. In a relatively small percentage of his games.

Not really. I mean, are you trying to say he's just injury prone? I'm just saying, like, we've got to take the game when Jomar Chase is playing, and Joe Burrow is playing, and T. Higgins didn't get hurt, and that just isn't a very large sample size. No, it is. It's a pretty large

sample size, because with Pittman, you don't even know what sample size to use. The guys had six different quarterbacks or something like that in four years. And he's not, you know, we're just using last year for Pittman. Why were we only using last year for Pittman? I mean, Higgins was so much better than Pittman each of the previous two seasons and Pittman's getting another quarterback. So there's some uncertainty there. I think there's actually do think there is predictability with Higgins. And I like what we've seen from him. I think he bounces back to what he was in 21 and 22. And I'll take that over Pittman.

There is predictability if all of the things that you are saying, like we're taking a guy that we can only count half of his games from the last three years and saying he's predictable. I think, I just think that last year was a lost season. Okay. He got hurt. Burrow played hurt. Burrow left. Burrow got hurt. And then Jake Browning took over Jamar chase. If you look at how we evaluated T Higgins going into last year, I think we pretty much knew what he was. He's a guy who's solid, you know, plays second fiddle to Jamar chase, has some big splash plays.

Usually, usually doesn't like, usually doesn't win you a week, but he's consistent. You know, I don't think, I don't see why anything has changed. Last year was a weird,

for me, throwaway year for the Bengals. You don't have to agree with that, but that's how I'm looking at it. And Pittman, I think, is hard to evaluate. He really hasn't had that great of a career. Last year he did, but he's got a new quarterback this year. Okay. And I'm guessing you're going to say that Anthony Richardson is going to be more injury-prone than Joe Burrow?

No. I mean, yes, I would assume that Anthony Richardson is going to be more injury prone than Joe Burrow? No. I mean, yes, I would assume that. Okay. So just to compare the two, Burrow tore his ACL his rookie season, right? This is not part of my argument, by the way. So you can go down this road. I'm just trying to figure out why you like Higgins' situation better where he's the second guy compared to Lee DePittman being the first guy. Because I have seen Tee Higgins as the second

guy with Joe Burrow, and he's a top 15 wide receiver. Two years in a row. And you've seen basically two full games of Michael Pittman with Anthony Richardson, right? Yes. One was great, one was terrible. So I make nothing of that.

The thing I have the problem with is you leaning on the top 15 wide receiver thing when we just talked about how his and michael pitman not being a top 15 wide receiver when we just talked about how michael pitman was actually better last year than higgins was the year one year out of four so i've got two years in a row and i feel very good about what higgins can do you're talking about his finish, though. You're not talking about his performance. No, okay. Okay, I feel, let's take 15 points per game.

I feel confident that T. Higgins gets there in a seven. He's done that once in his four years. Just like Pittman. Okay, and this is where you can make fun of me for it. He did do that in his second year if you take away the three games that he basically had like 80 yards or something combined in those three games they killed his averages i wonder if we take away michael pittman's three worst games every season what his game would be games that he barely played

it's not these are bad i didn't take away week one week one t higgins had no catches on eight targets i don't just take that away willy-nilly i take you are taking that away because you're throwing last year out completely. So we button this up a little bit. I think what you said is apropos. You feel more comfortable with Higgins because you've seen it before, and that's something I think that people can look at and say, okay, the consistency factor of Higgins doing it, whether it's 14.5 to 15.2, that's kind of a range where you think he'll be.

And like you said about Pittman, there's probably more upside because if Richardson is potentially as good as advertised, the ceiling for Michael Pittman could be much higher than what it is for T. Higgins. I'll just say higher. I wouldn't say, to me, maybe that's where I disagree. I don't think the ceiling is much higher.

Could he be a 17-point-per-game guy if Richardson is as legit as potentially could be? No. I don't think so. That seems a little high. 17? I don't think he's a

21 point guy, but I think 17 is realistic. With Minshew, he averaged 16.5 last year, but that's also talking about a low touchdown season. Yeah, for sure. It's,

it's all about volume for Pittman. And I think that's going to continue. And I think that's something that's a headwind for T Higgins. Higgins can make up for that with touchdowns. I think there's more that can go wrong for Higgins as the second receiver in Cincinnati than there is for Pittman who had eight targets per game in those two full games with Richardson. And I think that he's got potential to see, he's got potential to be top five in the NFL and targets. So that

means a lot of catches. He's decent at yak, his team paid him. So I think he's decent at yak his team paid him so i think he's pretty much locked into being their number one wide receiver this year richardson already has taken steps to be a better passer and i think he'll be even better in that regard this season i'm taking pitman because he's the number one guy in indy with eye volume okay that's fair i don't think it's a bad thing i don't i don't think you're crazy or i don't think you're crazy, or I don't think you're wrong, necessarily. I see the... I'm the optimist on Higgins.

I am willing to forgive some of the... what looks bad on paper, I guess. Also, sorry, last thing. If there is a Jamar Chase injury... I was just going to say, same thing, yeah. ...then he has more upside than Pittman slam dunk. All right. Ding, ding, ding. Last last one we got a quarterback debate it's jordan love versus brock purdy and they basically score the

exact same amount of fantasy points per game in both four point and six point for passing touchdown leagues and they were more or less qb six seven per per game, not counting Carson Wentz and Joe Flacco. So, uh, that would be Jordan love versus Brock Purdy. Does anybody have Purdy higher? Just to throw in Flacco. That's also a plus for Pittman.

Should it, should the quarterback injury occur for either, either guy? Okay. Jordan love versus Brock Purdy. So does anybody have a Purdy? No, no, no. Does anybody want to make the case Brock Purdy. So does anybody have Purdy? No. No.

Nope. Does anybody want to make the case for Purdy? Okay. No. Overlove? I mean, look, his... He's awesome. His weapons are fantastic

and a little bit more high-end than the Packers. His system is probably similar, but he's just not going to throw as much. The Purdy? Yeah, he's not going to throw as much, but he's going to probably lead the league in yards per target, yards per attempt. He probably will, but it probably won't be 9.6 like it was last year.

I don't think anybody's been ever over 9 two years in a row. So he has regression coming. And like you said, they were basically the same last year. Jordan Love did that with like 17 different wide receivers. I do think Purdy's got more risk if he misses one of his big guys

for a significant period of time and definitely more risk if he loses two of them. I guess the argument for Purdy would be he has better weapons. He had better weapons last year, though, and scored the same number of points as Love, almost. And he's done it for longer than Love. Five more games? No, he did it for a full season.

Love basically had a good half a season, right? Well, he got off to a good start, too. I don't think we should ignore that. We're looking at their full season statistics, and it was the same last year. We sort of asked last month, I think, what's the difference between Jordan Love this year and Trevor Lawrence last year?

Love, yes. Was he scoring fantasy points at the beach? What's that better coach? Maybe we weren't probably weren't saying that a year ago. Was he scoring fantasy points at the beginning of the year? Yes, he was. Was he playing?

Well, not really. He was pretty inaccurate. He was just kind of getting a lot of touchdowns. He started playing great. The second half of the season became a different quarterback. I'd say, I'm not sure.

Well, it's also, I mean, you had two rookie receivers, a second-year receiver who barely played, a rookie tight end, two rookie tight ends, one that got injured. I mean, you know, Aaron Jones was in and out of the lineup. Like, there was a lot of moving parts for the Packers. And so it's a big credit to Jordan Love

to have accomplished what he accomplished. And the way that he looked at the end of the season, going into the playoffs, that Dallas game was unbelievable. I mean, he's got the goods. Again, if you're in the NFC North and you saw 20 years of Brett Favre, 20 years of Aaron Rodgers, and now you've got another 20 years of Jordan Love, maybe, or 15 years, whatever it is, of those three guys, that's insane. Okay, I'm not going to argue here.

I think we're good. And that's it. Now, if you want the better value for similar production, you just wait a round or two and you get Purdy. Now, we haven't seen that in our drafts, but I think we'll see that in real drafts. Jordan Love went in round 10 to Jamie, and Brock Purdy went in round 8 to Zach Brooke.

I think the fun thing about all these debates is that no matter what we say, I mean, they're going to be pretty split amongst the fantasy population. I don't know that they're going to be split. I think except for the last one. Love versus Purdy? Yeah. All right, let's do a Twitter poll and get like 100 responses before we have to sign off.

Because I think Zach, if you recall, remember he said he was scrambling in the draft room and our draft room wasn't set up, so was kind of a free-for-all our draft room wasn't set up our draft room is not showing our rankings uh yes it was for this one no it was not well anyway zach the thing about zach zach is a little bit of a cyber bully. He's a little bit of a chat room bully in these drafts. So don't let him off the hook. I'm not letting him off the hook. I said he was scrambling and he picked Purdy.

Didn't he say he was looking for somebody else? I don't know. I was using my phone. I was shopping. I was shopping, Jamie, as you know. Good house. Yeah. All right.

Anything else, guys? Anything you'd like to discuss? Because I'm just waiting for poll results to come in. That's all. So we're killing time until you get enough results for you to feel good about. What's for lunch today? How do you feel about it? Would you rather have chicken salad or tuna?

Tuna salad, let's say. Depends on where it's from same bagel place you can actually order it this time you're gonna call it in just pick it up meekly in sunglasses i've already ordered it i already have it in the house tuna heath what do you think? Chicken salad or tuna salad? Yeah, probably tuna. I don't order salads for lunch and go pick them up very often. I usually just make something at home.

Okay. I have a regular salad. The broiler, the slow cooker, the smoker, all the above. Goes on his farm, butchers a cow. Okay, well, that's it. I've got nine votes in, and that's enough for me. Oh, good. I'm glad we wasted all this time. Seven of them were for Jordan Love.

So combine that with our four votes, that's 11 to 3, Jordan Love over Brock Purdy. Have a wonderful – Oh, 48 votes. Bad, bad math. 11-2. You said you had... 11-2. We've got...

48 votes. Jordan Love has 73% of them over Purdy. Alright, have a great day, everybody. We'll talk to you tomorrow on Fantasy Football. Good day.