Fantasy Football Today - TE Tiers! Are Jake Ferguson and Dalton Kincaid Draft Day Steals? (07/18 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

If you support the show, please nominate Fantasy Football Today for The People's Choice Podcast Awards in the "Sports" Category: https://www.podcastawards.com/app/signup/ Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts We'll kick it off with some trivia and some reason for optimism at the top of the tight end position (1:50), but as the show progresses we're not sure if you're going to love the late-round options. We'll give you the news and notes (7:35) and then get into Tier 1 (9:30). Should this consist of just Sam LaPorta and Travis Kelce, or do Trey McBride and Mark Andrews belong here as well? ... Tier 2 (21:30) has only one player for Jamey but three players for Dave. When is the right time to draft Dalton Kincaid? And then we get to Tier 3 (27:30) with Evan Engram, Kyle Pitts and George Kittle. Why do they go later than Kincaid when two of these three players are more accomplished? Also, is Tier 4 (36:30) your last chance to get a reliable TE? ... Tier 5 (43:10) would be the end of the Top 12 in the rankings, but are these guys Fantasy starters or are they glorified streamers? And then we get to Tier 6 (47:30) and beyond and talk about guys like Cole Kmet, T.J. Hockenson, Jonnu Smith, Taysom Hill, Mike Gesicki and many more ... Email us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dynasty/id1696679179 SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aHlmMJw1m8FareKybdNfG?si=8487e2f9611b4438&nd=1 Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Your game time tastes like miller time learn more at millerlight.ca must be legal drinking age this is fantasy football today from cbs sports what a play can you believe this no i can't it's time to dominate your fantasy league. This is going to go the distance. Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. Welcome to Fantasy Football today on Thursday, July 18th. And welcome back to a man who I am currently mad at, Dave Richard. Hello, Dave. Suck it, Adam.

Do you know why I'm mad at you? Nope, doesn't matter. Because you were whistling Head Over Heels by Tears For Fears, and now it's going to be stuck in my head for days. And I don't even like that song. I wasn't whistling that song. Yes, you were. No.

Yes, you were. What did you think you heard? I don't know. That's what you were whistling. I was not whistling. What did you think you heard? I don't know. That's what you were whistling. I was not whistling. What were you whistling? Just randomly whistling. I don't know.

No, it was Tears for Fears. Okay. Dave is here. Jamie is here. We got our tight end tears. And first, a trivia question. Can you guys name the tight end who has had the same exact amount of targets three straight seasons? 87 targets three straight seasons. 87.

Exact number on the dot. 87 targets three straight seasons. 87 targets three straight seasons. I was going to guess Ferguson, but there's no way his target number is that low. Well, he wouldn't have done it three years ago. He would have done it two years ago. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I had to look it up like five times. 87 targets three years in a row. It feels fake to me, but it's actually happened. 87 targets. 87 targets three years in a row. Can I guess Tyler Conklin? Oh my gosh. Yes, you can guess Tyler Conklin and you are correct. Tyler Conklin checks in in tier seven for Jamie. All right. So I want to give you guys a little bit of optimism for tight ends. So I was looking over my Travis Kelsey notes this morning, and let's go back to the six seasons before 2023

where he was easily the best tight end for the most part. Andrews had a year in there, but Kelsey actually was tied, basically, for number one per game last year. But there's those six amazing seasons. He had, within those six, three super elite seasons, around 18 or more PPR fantasy points, I think something like that. Really, really good. And three just really good seasons.

Well, it does pretty much coincide with better passing numbers from Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. Every time he's had, Kelsey's had one of those mega seasons where he's been worth a first round pick instead of maybe like a second round pick. It's been a 40 plus touchdown season, whatever. So he would benefit from a better passing game, which they should have. I think the Cardinals will have a better passing game. I think the Lions could have a better passing game because of all the schedule stuff we've talked about.

I think the Jaguars could have a better passing game. They threw 21, well, Lawrence threw 21 touchdown passes. The Falcons should have a better passing game. I was just thinking about that this morning, Dave. I was like, you know what? Not all of the elite tight ends or top eight tight ends or whatever, but a lot of them will have better passing games than they had in 2023. That's pretty cool.

So I think that makes a lot of sense. You, and this is with every position you want to collect players that are going to be on strong offenses, but the it's the names that you didn't say that make me raise a brow. I didn't hear you mention the Ravens. I don't know if that means you don't think they're going to have a better passing offense. I think it could be kind of the same. And we know we kind of know what to expect with Mark Andrews anyway, but you didn't say his name. You didn't mention Dalton Kincaid. I don't know if anybody has a clear view of what that Bill's passing offense is going to be. And you didn't mention the 49ers. I don't believe George Kittle is someone who's always polarizing.

I know you talked a lot about him on the wide receiver tears podcast. So I don't know how much we're going to get into him a lot, but every year he finds a way to, to matter and fantasy. And the past couple of years, we've kind of poo poo George Kittle and we're doing it again this year. He might end up being a value, even though he's,

he's not an offense that necessarily is going to be better throwing the football, but it's already one of the most efficient passing offenses in the league. It's, it's kind of making Kittle emerge as a decent value on draft day. Before Jamie gets in there, I just want to say, I didn't mention Baltimore and San Francisco,

but I will mention this about them. We could certainly see a better passing season from Lamar Jackson. This might be the year that he, I don't want to, kind of breaks out as a passer, which is weird because he had a 35 touchdown season in 2019 or 18, whatever that was.

But they had the second fewest pass attempts in the NFL and the 49ers had the fewest pass attempts for the NFL. So it could just be if they're 24th, 25th in pass attempts or something like that, that could really benefit them. I think for the Ravens, though, pretty much every year they're close

to the bottom. But Jamie, any thoughts on that? Just quarterback or passing game upgrades, including at the very, very top for Kelsey and Laporta? No, I got your point. It was the teams that are going to improve. I understand where Dave's coming from, but you were talking about teams that have a chance to be different. It's interesting you started with Conklin because I think he's one of those guys

also just because of a better passing game that's coming to the Jets and the thoughts that they have for him. So, yeah, it makes total sense that these teams that are getting quarterback upgrades, system upgrades. It's why I'm hopeful Jawan Johnson, for example, will be healthy because I think he could be a good playmaker for the Saints. It's trying to figure out who's going to be the guy for the, for the Rams. You know, I mean, Colby Parkinson looks like the most likely candidate, but who's going to be the guy there, you know? So there there's lots of scenarios where you can say, okay, if this quarterback, if this system, if this guy steps into this role, yeah, there's, there's, there's a lot of fun options out there, but I think it's telling. It's understandable, I should say, that when the quarterback is good,

almost all the parts are good, especially when there's a playmaking tight end. All right, guys. Everybody, get your wallets out or get ready to get them out because Draftathon is coming up. We're going to start having a lot of opportunities for you to donate to St. Jude, an amazing cause, obviously. So this is helping children with cancer and their families. So they don't have to pay for anything when they are being treated by St. Jude. We don't have anything live just yet, but that is coming

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Let's do some news and notes. Tight end news. Tucker Kraft, Packers tight end. He's on the pup list. He scored nine and a half or more PPR fantasy points in five of six games without Luke Musgrave. They were never all that great, but Kraft was actually,

I think better than Musgrave when Musgrave wasn't there, but you know, I don't know if he was sharing with anybody Musgrave with to agree to a degree with sharing with Kraft. Also, Jordan Love said Dontavian Wicks is going to have a monster season. Wow. It's almost anybody that has the ability to sit in front of a microphone saying Dontavian Wicks is going to have a big season. Wow. It's almost anybody that has the ability to sit in front of a microphone

saying Dontevian Wicks is going to have a big season. Yeah, is he getting that Rashad Bateman buzz? It's a lot of industry people, fantasy and non, that are excited about Dontevian Wicks. It's just, you know,

I think if you keep it in perspective, you know, will he have a monster season when everybody's healthy or will it take an injury? Most likely to, you know, who for him to have that monster season. So I don't think you can say Jaden Reed is going to do this and Christian Watson is going to do that. And Dontavion Wicks is going to still have a breakout season. I don't think he's going to support all three of those guys and we know it's hard to get three guys in the top 24, but when you look at where Dante

Wicks has been drafted, that's clearly going to rise as the process goes on especially if he does anything significant in training camp and preseason. He's going to be one of the biggest risers. There's no doubt about it. Okay. Some more Devante Adams news. He says he's no doubt about it. Okay. Some more

Devontae Adams news. He says he's locked in with the Raiders. We'll see. Xavier Worthy, Chiefs wide receiver. He's going to avoid the Pup List, according to NFL.com, but guard Joe Tooney, coming off a major injury last year, is on the Pup List for the Chiefs. Pup List,

again, it's okay right now. It's mid-July. They can come off of the Pup List whenever they want during the Chiefs. Pup lists, again, it's okay right now. It's mid-July. They can come off of the pup list whenever they want during the preseason. Deshaun Watson said his shoulder is good. And let's go to tier one of tight end. Yeah, whatever. Tier one is four players.

Sam Laporta, Travis Kelsey, Mark Andrews, and Trey McBride. And that's for Jamie. So I think in order it's Laporta, Kelsey, McBride, Andrews, but they're all in tier one. Again, these are Jamie's tiers. Dave, how do you feel about that? Is it a four person tier for you or would you have separated it? I've got it separated. I have Laporta and Kelsey in their own tier. I think they're the two that have the biggest upside. And I'm thinking of like 14 or more PPR points per game for the entire season. Like that's what you're hoping for when you're taking Laporta or Kelsey and the position's different this year. It's not Kelsey on his own. And then Mark Andrews on his own. And then a bunch of guys beneath them. It's a lot closer together at the top. And I think that that's really good for fancy.

I kind of think it salvages the tight end position in a way that it hasn't been viewed in several years, but I just think that there is a distinct difference between Laporta and Kelsey, the likelihood that they can score a lot of fantasy points on a per game basis and, uh, and come through for fancy managers and be more desirable than Andrews, McBride, and Kincaid. It's by a round. It's not by a huge margin. But to me, the top tier is two names only. All right.

You know what? I was going to have Jamie follow up, but we're going to do that after a break. So it's Laporta and Kelsey in tier one for Dave. It's Laporta, Kelsey, McBride, and Andrews in tier one for Jamie. Probably a subtle difference there. We'll see what Jamie has to say about it when we come back on Fantasy Football today. Take back your free time with PC Express Online grocery delivery and pickup. Score in-store promos, PC Optimum points, and more free time.

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or visit SecurianCanada.ca. Securian Canada, insurance designed for life. All right, Jamie Eisberg, so why is Tier 1 a four-person tier for you instead of just two players? Dave said it. 14-point-per-game average or more. McBride was at 14.6 in the games that, once they got rid of Ertz,

over that stretch to close the season. And I think he's going to be in that range again. And Andrews was 13.5 for the time that he was healthy. And I think he was going to continue to get better. So I think all four of those guys have that potential. And that's why I like them as the, in the same tier, you know, uh, uh, the one that concerns me the most obviously is Kelsey, uh, just because, you know, you're, you're hearing limited snap count, uh, more so than last

year and the potential of trying to save him for the, for the post season with the additional weapons. Now, clearly the thing that could save him from that is getting back to being a double digit touchdown score. So that's why I'm not, you know, pushing him down lower and running away from him. But I think it's also why people need to understand, you know, even if you're a Kelsey truther, that he's not going to run away from the field unless he gets to maybe, you know, 12 to 15 touchdowns. And I don't know if that's going to necessarily happen unless Mahomes has one of those, you know, 45 to 50 touchdown seasons which is certainly possible so um you should still be considering Kelsey back into round two early round three I like Laporta situation better just because I think you know

again not only just the schedule but uh there's there's a different receiving core just because Josh Reynolds is gone and we'll see who fills that role I hope it's Jamison Williams and that's where the targets go as opposed to just more going to laporta and st brown because they can still be amazing in the targets that they had but typically again what we see is second year tight ends break out and after what he did in his rookie campaign that just tells you that there's still meat on the bone for him to get better uh for mcbride i again i'm not worried about marvin harrison coming there i think we see a better kyler murray just better offense across the board and this is a very tight and friendly system so mcbride gets better from from last year and andrews you think we'll see a better Kyler Murray, just a better offense across the board. And this is a very tight and friendly system. So McBride gets better from, from last year

and Andrews, you know, we'll see how Zay Flowers impacts him. We didn't really see those two guys producing at the same time, but I still think that Andrews is the go-to guy for Lamar Jackson, again, in a very friendly, tight and often. So love all four of those guys with Kincaid, not far behind. That's why he's in a tier by himself. And I guess I'm just a little bit worried about the upside for both Andrews and McBride. And it's definitely a format specific type thing. I've got McBride lower in half and non PPR. I think the targets will still be there for him, but I, I cannot look at what he did last year when he broke out.

And you mentioned it, Jamie, almost 15 PPR points per game in his last 10. I think Marvin Harrison is going to be a total target hog. It's the track record of Kyler Murray leaning on that top receiver, that top option. I think Harrison's going to come in right away and be that option. I don't love that McBride didn't have a slew of touchdowns. Maybe that changes. Maybe he gets six or seven touchdowns this year,

but I think his target volume is going to go down just enough to make him one of those. Yeah. You said it with Andrews. He averaged like 13 and a half PPR points per game. That's where I think McBride ends up in PPR is right in that same range. And it's not going to be as high as, as Laporta or as Kelsey, but I think that's still going to be pretty good. I don't like seeing McBride go in round three. I think that's too soon. I think he's around four or five type pig. If he falls around five,

my goodness, that's an absolute steal. But late round four is where I would target McBride in full PPR. And I would take Andrews ahead of him because as you mentioned, and this has been like one of the safest things to say is that Mark Andrews has been the go-to guy for Lamar Jackson. As long as he's healthy, I expect his target volume to be a minimum six targets per game. That's where it was last year. Might even go up to seven. Yeah, you know, I hope so. But he had a bit of a target problem last year. Mark Andrews had his lowest target per outrun rate since his rookie season.

It was still good, but it wasn't as good. And out of nine healthy games, he had four to six targets in six of nine healthy games. Was on pace for 111 targets in his nine healthy games. So I'll take that. It just wasn't really consistent. But Andrews, you know, if you just take out week 11, when he played 11% of the snaps,

Andrews actually averaged about 14.5 points per game. So he was having one of his best seasons. I think his second best season. He was absolutely outstanding. Second best season, yep. Okay, so there's a lot we could say here. So if you look at average draft position, it's like I'm looking at both CBS

and I'm looking at draft sharks. And there is definitely a tier, just an ADP. Laporta and Kelsey are more or less going at the 2-3 turn, if not mid-round three, maybe around 30th overall. On our site, they're 30th overall. Yeah, I shouldn't say 2-3 turn. I'm going to say they're about 30th overall for Kelsey and Leporta. McBride, Andrews, and Kincaid on draft sharks

are all pretty close together around the 4-5 turn. In CBS, Mark Andrews is going 41st, and McBride is going 54th, just ahead of Kincaid, who's 56th. So it looks like, based on, right now, two websites, you can get McBride 4-5 turn, maybe a little bit later. So if you're at the 2-3 turn, or picking early in round three, as opposed to late round four or early turn, maybe a little bit later. So if you're at the two, three turn or picking, you know, early in round three, as opposed to late round four, early in round five, would you rather have Laporta and Kelsey,

you know, around. McBride by a mile. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause I'm going to say, I'm going to make the case, at least for Kelsey. He's Kelsey and he caught five touchdowns last year. And he was still the best tight end per game in fantasy football.

And he hurt his knee. What was the number? What was the number? 14.8 points per game. That's it. Okay. But that was with an early season knee injury. And basically the worst Mahomes season that we've seen when he's been healthy.

So he gets back. Mahomes gets back on track. The last time Kelsey caught five touchdowns in a season, he caught 11 the next season. You know, I just, for him to be the number one tight end in fantasy with a five touchdown season and a knee injury, and look what he did in the playoffs. And it does sort of remind me of 2021 when he was like, okay, 16.6 points per game.

Wasn't great late, but had a huge postseason. He averaged like 100 yards per game in the playoffs. He came back 1,300 yards, 12 touchdowns, like incredible. So I think, yeah, I mean, it depends. I think there's a case to be made for Kelsey and Laporta about a round and a half or two rounds ahead of Brown. There's a case to be made for all four of these guys. And again, if you want to put Kincaid, you know, with the speculation that he's going to take that leap,

which I do think he will for all of them to challenge, to be tight in one. I mean, look, Laporta, if he can have another double digit touchdown season and see an increase in his catches in his yards, he'll be right there again, if not better than Kelsey scoring 11 touchdowns. You know, Dave mentioned the touchdowns from McBride. If now the field is open a little bit more, and this is something that Kyler Murray leans on him because, you know, to Dave's point, yes, Kyler has never supported two guys. I think that's what you're getting at with what you said

before. He's also never played in this offense with multiple targets at this level before, because last year he didn't have that. You know, so seeing what he does in this offense with multiple targets at this level before because last year he didn't have that. You know, so seeing what he does in the system with multiple options will hopefully help him at this level. And then Andrews, you know, again, we'll see if Lamar Jackson leans more towards Zay Flowers and, you know, the hype train of Rashad Bateman as opposed to Andrews as he always does. But there's clearly the opportunity there for Andrews to be that type of player as well, because we've seen it in the past and even last year in the system. So I think all four of these guys have those opportunities.

And so unless you're really sold on one of them being that much better than the field, which I don't know if you ask 50 people that you get or four people, you get four different answers potentially. But I think for for value you know you take the one that's going the latest because they all have that type of upside okay it's almost like with the quarterbacks we we've kind of said something similar when it comes to the top four quarterbacks you could do the same thing with tight ends let me just do let's

do a quick little exercise here oh no no no exercise please you have the uh you have the second pick in the draft mcafree's off the board who are you taking lamb sedarian lamb okay you take lamb in the second round you can take give me a wide receiver or running back waddle uh who would make it that far back in round two i should be able to say somebody better than josh jacobs i don't know why jacobs popped into my mind i'll get jacobs in round three i will take no not not in this scenario you won't you'll get kelsey in round three does derrick henry make it back to me in round two? You know what? This is kind of

a boring exercise. So I'm going to... So is all exercise. Yeah. I'm going to just stop there. Basically, I'll just give you a wide receiver

or tight end combo. Would you rather have Travis Kelsey in round three and Stefan Diggs or Tank Dell? Or would you rather have...

The other one. Who's going? Or would you rather have... The other one. Who's going there? Would you rather have Devante Adams and Trey McBride? Adams and McBride. Or whoever's there. I can get Waddle there, so I'll take Waddle and McBride. Waddle and McBride. Okay, great.

Let's go to tier two. So, as mentioned, both on CBS and on DraftSharks, there's not much separating Dalton Kincaid and Trey McBride. Kincaid is going two picks later than McBride and CBS, both in round five. And on DraftSharks, Kincaid is going right in the same range within six picks of both McBride and Andrews. So, Jamie, he's the only player in tier two for you,

Dalton Kincaid, tight end five. What separates, how much should separate Kincaid from McBride and Andrews? Not much. You know, again, I think he's right there. You know, he's got the, again, that upside to be in the 14 plus point range. I'm going to be the, the, I think the go-to guy for Josh. I'm hoping he's going to be the go-to guy for Josh. And there's no guarantee clearly, but you know, when you look at this, uh, receiving core, you know, there's one guy who's caught passes from him. It's Khalil Shakir. And, you know, it, it took injuries for him to be involved in the offense, you know, so is Curtis Samuel with his knowledge of Joe Brady going to be the lead option is Keon Coleman. Who's the high profile rookie that they drafted going to be the go-to guy that they drafted, going to be the go-to guy? Is Chase Claypool going to be the go-to guy?

Kincaid clearly has got that type of upside. He's got the profile, got the pedigree. Stepped up last year when there were guys missing, more so Dawson Knox, but did do so in the end of the year in the playoffs when there was no Gabe Davis. And so with 200-plus targets vacated and just this playmaking type of guy, you know, Sean McDermott said at the owner's meetings, you know, when asked about his receiving core and he said, you know, I'm just going to lump the tight ends in the room.

And that's going to be, you know, a big part of what they do is just, you know, incorporating Dalton Kincaid and using him as more of a receiving threat than necessarily a traditional tight end. So again, the path is clear for him to be one of the best players at his position. And again, if you want to say, okay, there's five guys as opposed to four guys, you wait and you take him as well, which is what I do a lot. I have a lot of shares of Dalton Kincaid in drafts that we're playing out and I'm thrilled about that. If you guys had a pick in the middle of the draft, six pick, seven pick, whatever,

and you get to round four and you don't have a tight end, we're talking about a 12 team league here. Uh, let's say only two tight ends are off the board by the time we get to your pick, which is going to be, let's say 42nd overall, but you've still got Mark Andrews,

Trey McBride, and Dalton Kincaid on the board. Do you go ahead and take Andrews or McBride there in round four? Or do you hope that Kincaid is available to you in round five? And part of that is like, well, if they're all gone by my next pick and 12 picks or whatever, I'm fine with the next year. But what's your urgency?

You're picking in the middle of round four. Two tight ends are off the board. You still have McBride, Andrews, and Kincaid. What's your urgency to grab a tight end there? What do you think you're doing there, Jamie? If there's no other player that I like, and it's not going to be a quarterback. So if there's no other running back wide receiver, running back, running back or wide receiver that I like, then I would pull the trigger on McBride. Uh, most likely though, I would probably gamble and see if one of them

came back to me. Now that's clearly going to be risky. And again, I think it comes down to knowing who you're drafting with, but if that's the case, you know, I've hit that point where, okay, don't love these most likely receivers. Don't really want to take a chance on one of these tier four, tier five running backs that are going to be on the board, at least based on my tiers, then yes, I would take the tight end. I've got a lot of quarterbacks ranked ahead of Andrews and McBride and Kincaid. So if you're interested in waiting on quarterback, kind of going with that Jamie strategy, not trying to necessarily get one at a fair value, you're looking to steal one, and I like that value. I like that idea, I should say.

Then I might go with Andrews if he's there in round four. I don't think I have a big problem with that. But I've got a lot of – let me see where I have. I have Andrews 44th overall that's with quarterback. So if we're taking out the top four quarterbacks, he's 40th. I think I'm going to find a player at another position that I'll like in that middle round four range ahead of Andrews and certainly ahead of both McBride and Kincaid. So I'm probably going to wait and hope to get one of those three tight ends fall to me in round five. It'll probably be Kincaid and I'll be perfectly happy with that. This is a tight end.

Andrews is going to be, we think he's going to be the top target getter in Baltimore. I'm pretty confident that McBride won't be the top target getter in Arizona unless Marvin Harrison gets hurt. I feel good about Kincaid being the top target getter. They don't have a lot of explosive mismatch type guys. They've got some big guys, but I don't know if they're going to be able to separate. I think Kincaid can separate. I think they can use them all over the field. He averaged just over 12 PPR points per game in the two playoff games last year.

That was on five and a half targets. I think that number goes up. I think all of his numbers go up. Second year breakout for Dalton Kincaid. Yeah. And here's another thing to consider in this scenario. If you have a pick in the middle of the round and you're in round four and McBride, Andrews and Kincaid are still on the board and you'd like to get one of them, take a look at who picked Kelsey and Laporta. Was it two teams that are coming up in the draft and therefore have two picks before you make your next selection? Or did Laporta go, you know, in the later part, I thought you were putting the scenario as if it's going the other way where

the other two guys have already gone, which could happen. No, the other two guys have gone. They went in the third round. Now we're in the fourth round. So we're snaking back. Right.

But we don't know where they went in the third round. So Adam, what your thing is, if they went with a team that had a draft slot later than you, then wait. Yeah. I Yeah, I was envisioning as the direction that we're going, those teams

all need tight ends. Okay, that's the thing. If they pick after you in round four and before you in round five, and they've already got a tight end, then that'll make you feel even more emboldened to wait on a tight end. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so just watch the roster grid all right tier three is evan ingram kyle pitts and george kittle so this brings us eight tight ends into the rankings to your favorite group of

titans i don't know how this is the this is my conflicted group here. But let me ask you this, Jamie. It's a good way to put it. Ingram, Pitts, and Kittle, how important is it to have a top eight tight end? How important is it to have a tight end in one of your first three tiers? How important is it? I mean, look, it depends on, I think, how comfortable you feel with what your first five or six picks in your, you know, draft or seven or eight, depending on how late you're going to take these guys. So, you know, if you feel, you know, pretty confident about your team, you know, and again, the, the, the goalposts have moved a little bit, right. Because, you know, Kelsey getting 18 points and sort of setting the bar at a different level, you know, you're not chasing one guy at this point, you know, so if we're talking about, you know, four to five guys that are going to be in the 14 point range and not

necessarily 15 plus, I think that Ingram pits and Kittle, I feel pretty confident that if they hit and clearly one of those guys has a long way to go, but you know, if all three of those guys hit and, and also Kittle doesn't just continue his year over year trend of, you know, slipping that these guys will be in, in the hopefully 12 point per game range, you know? And so I don't necessarily think you have to reach for one of the top five guys. If you feel like you get one of these three, and then you go at least to Ferguson because Bowers makes me nervous, but there's upside there, but you know, Ferguson is probably

11 points per game if he's right. You know, so you don't necessarily have to go crazy for it, you know, reaching for somebody at this position. At least that's the way I feel. You know, I'd rather try and see if I could hit on the next guy, you know, the Njoku of this year, you know. You know, so for me, that's like Friarmouth, for example. You know, so once I get past, you know, Tier 4, you know, I'm looking for those guys in Tier 5,

and those type of guys I'm not so worried about so I wouldn't reach for anyone but I do think that there's certainly much more upside with the top five guys as opposed to once we get into tier three and tier four agreed 100% I'm worried about the upside for Kittle Ingram and Pitts I mean shoot we haven't really seen it from Pitts Ingram we saw some huge numbers last year after Calvin Ridley or his Kirk rather, excuse me, after Christian Kirk went down. But even before then with Ridley and Kirk, it was 11 and a half PPR points per game. That was with like no touchdowns too.

So I wonder if that number can be closer to 12 and a half Ingram, like you have a Jamie. He's at the top of my tier three. And you mentioned Kittle's been sliding. Here's the slide. 13.7 was his average in 2021, 13.3 in 2022, 12.7 in 2023. If we continue that trajectory, it's small, but maybe he's right around 12.2 in 2024. That's still pretty good. It's just a matter of how will that production come? I think he's going to be much more boom or bust on a week to week basis and

also contingent on who's healthy in San Francisco on a week to week basis. So this is the group of tight ends that I'm happy to get at value. I don't think I'm looking at any of them in round six and feeling excited about it. I think around seven is the range where if they slip a little bit, I'll be okay taking them if I don't already have a tight end. So why is Dalton Kincaid, who also has not shown, he's not proven anything like Kyle Pitts hasn't really. Oh, Pitts has a thousand yard season as a rookie, I guess. Why is Kincaid ahead of, dare I say, three players who have proven more than him in Ingram,

Pitts, and Kittle. It's upside. For me, it's upside. It's the chance to be the number one target getter in a very good offense, an aggressive offense in Buffalo. And I think he's got a shot to get in that 13 range, maybe more like 12.9, 12.8, but still really, really good. And who the hell knows if he ends up getting a bunch of touchdowns and he makes a lot of yak plays like he's capable of doing, then maybe those touchdowns will be huge for him. So there there's a lot to really like about Kincaid as a player. He's a unique type of tight end. He's not one of these slower burly guys. And, and, and I think

Buffalo is in need of explosive players to step up and help replace Diggs, help replace Gabe Davis, those targets. How many targets are available, Jamie? What did you say for that? Over 200. Over 200 targets are available. Gets me excited about a lot of players in Buffalo, but Kincaid's the one that I'm the most excited about. So he's the one that's got the potential to really break through. And I'm willing to take that chance on him significantly earlier than Ingram,

who's going to go back to sharing, but still we'll get plenty of targets in Jacksonville. Kittle sharing. We'll have some breakout games. Pits might be number two in Atlanta and targets probably will be number two in targets in Atlanta, but a lot of other mouths to feed there that I think will hurt pits who for three years has never really been, he's never averaged double digit PPR points in any of his

three years. Kincaid's only been in the league for one year. It's like a devil, you know, versus a devil you don't type of thing. And so that's why I would veer toward Kincaid over pits. Again, just to go back to the conversation, you know, Drake London versus Cooper cup, you can clearly take the player who you have seen done it before, but when you start to factor in what's happening in front of them, and unless you're supremely confident, they're going to do it again. You lean toward the players you think have more upside. And so it's, it's, it's a question of does George Kittle, who's been fantastic and an absolute stud and one of the best to ever do it have as much upside as dalton kinkade he's not here but he

would tell you yes i don't believe so it sounds like dave doesn't believe so so you know when you're projecting you're hoping for the guy who's going to project to be higher. And that's the thing that you're doing with some of these younger unproven players that have to do it for the first time. Yeah. I could probably do a whole show on, on George Kittle, but I'll just ask you this. If Brandon, I, you or Debo Samuel were to get traded, what tier does George Kittle go into? Ooh. Well, first of all, I don't think it's happening. Yeah, if Iyukur Debo gets traded, George Kittle, now

in tier three, he's tight end eight for you. What tier does he go into? Oh, he's tight end two, and he's ahead of Kincaid. Tight end two? Tight end two. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably close to where I'd be.

It'd be hard to make the case for Kincaid over Kittle. Yeah, I think I might take him. As I said yesterday, we don't know what Pearsall does because they haven't had a piece like this in that situation. But it's hard to overlook what Kittle has done when one guy has been missing. And by the way, if you're watching Receiver or have watched it, it's hard not to root for Kittle has done when one guy has been missing. So... And by the way, if you're watching Receiver or have watched it, it's hard not to root for Kittle.

No, I haven't been watching it, actually. So, last thing here before we take a break. I understand why Kincaid is ranked ahead of them, but here's my question. Would you rather have Kincaid in round five or someone in tier three in round seven? That would be Ingram, Pitts, Kittle.

I'd rather have Kincaid. I think I'd rather have Kincaid. I think I'd rather have Kincaid too. Okay. I'm done talking that. Dave's rusty. All right, let's go to break. We'll come back. We'll talk about tier four after this.

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It's the last call for fall, so don't miss out on your fall faves. Next stop, Starbucks. We are back on Fantasy Football today. All right, we have so far talked about eight tight ends. Tier one had four players, Sam Laporta, Travis Kelsey mark andrews and trey mcbride tier two had dalton kincaid by himself and tier three had ingram pitts and kittle dave i haven't really been asking you if you disagree with anything i know you said you'd kind of separate tier one but uh kincaid by himself and then ingram pitts kittle do you more or less see it that way? No, I have Andrews and McBride with Kincaid in tier two.

And then I've got the same names in tier three, but I've got Pitts behind Kittle in tier three. Okay. So tier four, we're now at tight ends nine and 10 for Jamie. Tier four is Jake Ferguson and Brock Bowers. Jamie, how would you define these two players? What makes them a little bit worse than Ingram pits and Kittle? This is Ferguson and Bowers. I don't think Ferguson has as much upside as the guys in

front of them. He probably has similar floors, let's say, or maybe better floor than pits and, and, and potentially Ingram, um, Kittle's floor feels a little bit higher, but I think Ferguson is just one of those safe options that if you miss on the first eight guys, you're getting a guy that could be 10, 11 points per game and should be able to be a serviceable low end. Number one option. Bowers range of options feels like it's all over the place, you know? And I don't know if you asked this,

you did ask this on our sports network show, where, where would he finish? And I said, between Michael Mayer and Travis Kelsey. And, and that's kind of the way it feels like, you know,

he could be a complete flop for a team that drafted a high-end tight end last year, or he could be one of the best, you know, at his position. I think it's Ed LaPorta, you know, so rookie tight end who popped off. So, you know, the way that I would sort of view Bowers is you kind of want him to be like what McBride finished overall. I don't think he's going to be what McBride was in that stretch of games, which again, you take from the Zacherts departure on. But over the course of the season,

McBride was around the 10th best tight end for his body of work. And that's kind of what I'm hoping for for Bowers is that he's going to have some big games. He's going to have some games where he flashes. He's going to really struggle, I think, early in the season. And we'll see, you know, A, who the quarterback is and how they'll lean on him and that player will lean on him. And then B, again, what happens with Devontae

Adams over the course of the season? Does he still get his 175 plus targets? If that's the case, I think Bowers really struggle. Like I said yesterday, I think Adams comes back to the field a little bit and is around 150 targets. So, you know, we're looking at a little bit, you know, different dispersal of who's getting those opportunities in this offense. And that's where I think Bowers wins, let's say over Jacoby Myers. So I'm, I'm nervous about Bowers. I think if you are committing to him, you have to commit to two tight ends and probably somebody, you know, right after him, if not taking him and Ferguson.

But again, the upside is, is tremendous, you know? So if he does, you know, become a go-to guy in this offense, number two in targets, and either O'Connell or Minshew is leaning on him to a degree that's going to allow him to be a factor in the red zone and do some things, not Laporta-like things, but maybe even just Kincaid-like things, where he had some big games and flashed as a rookie, um, Luke Musgrave slash Tucker craft type games, you know, again, not huge, but nine, 10 PPR points per game. I think that's kind of what you should expect.

I think they are two very different tight ends that I find myself drafting one of these two in most of my leagues. And one of them's got crazy upside, but it's based on projection. It's based on how he was in college, and that's Brock Powers. And then there's one that's really safe. It's Jake Ferguson, who's been number two target getter for Dallas, probably will continue to be. I think his ceiling is a little bit higher than that 10 or 11 PPR point range that you're talking about.

But I can make the case for both of these guys and, and I've got two other names in this tier and I'd actually don't like that. I like that. This is a two person tier tier four. Both these guys should go well before the end of round 10. They're probably both around nine type round eight, nine type picks. Um, I don't know how much more you want to get into these guys adam or if you want to save that for fft express but i like i kind of like waiting for one of these two and then i load up

at other positions because i think both of them have a shot to be pretty close to the tight ends in tier three and i'm getting them at a discount okay so this is ferguson and bowers in tier four and the tight ends in tier three in case you have forgotten are ingram pitts and kittle who are the other two tight ends that you that you were originally thinking you'd put in tier four i've got hockinson and goddard in this tier but certainly tight ends that should be taken round 10 if not later and hockinson's the one who's i was always a little bit more bullish on hoon, but the fact that there's no real timetable on his return makes me a lot more nervous about taking him before like 110th overall.

And you absolutely have to take a second tight end if you get Hawkinson. So he probably belongs in the next tier with pretty much everybody. If Ferguson, based on early CBS ADP, is probably my favorite value, he's tight on early CBS ADP, is probably my favorite value. He's tight end 12 in ADP. He's going after Bowers, Hawkinson, and Njoku.

Oh, man, I would take that. If I could get him in round 12 every draft, I'd be in. No, no, no, tight end 12, not round 12. Tight end 12, what round? 10, I think. Fine. Round 10, perfect. Yeah, I think. Fine. Round 10, perfect.

Yeah, 9-10 turn. On draft sharks, though, Ferguson is tight end 9, but he's almost two full rounds after tight end 8,

Evan Ingram. He's a late round 8 pick. Njoku's also round 8 pick. Brock Bowers is round 8 pick. So Njoku's in this tier based on ADP, but would you rather

have Ingram, Kittle, Pitts in round seven or Ferguson in round, let's say like around the 8-9 turn? 8-9 turn for Ferguson. Really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

By the way, if you take Ferguson's one postseason game, he would have averaged about a point and a half more per game. He scored like 30 points in the postseason. If not more than that, he had, what was it? 10 catches, 93 yards, and three touchdowns. So no, he scored like 35 points or something crazy. Yeah, he was awesome in the playoffs. He also had nine games with at least seven targets during the season, and he averaged 12.6 in those games.

That's full PPR. So listen, we've talked a lot about Dallas's offense during the offseason. No real improvements to their run game. No real additions to their pass game. I don't see what's really stopping Ferguson from getting close to averaging seven targets per game this year. I'm going to say that the first four tiers, which have 10 players,

you're probably not dropping. If any of them get off to a slow start, you're probably not dropping them for a while. Maybe Pitts, Bowers, because Pitts has been the Pitts, and Bowers. But now I wonder if that changes as we get to tier five. Tier five is David for Jamie. It's David Njoku, Dallas Goddard, and Pat Fryermuth.

It's a pretty interesting tier. First of all, just putting Fryermuth in there, I think, might be a little surprising for people to see, but Njoku, Goddard fryer muth are these guys are they basically streamers jamie or are they better than that no joku goddard and fryer muth tier five i hope they're not streamers um i'm i'm getting close to fryer muth probably being one of my significant risers and would not be surprised if i haven't ranked ahead of bowers by the time we get to

the end of August. You know, again, we talk about number two in terms of targets. I think that's a easy path for him to get there. You know, looking at Van Jefferson and Roman, hopefully Roman Wilson, but you know, just a group of guys that are, don't feel like it's not hard for him to get past those guys based on everything that you're hearing coming out of pittsburgh um it's weird that we you know and i'm i'm guilty of this i think almost every fantasy analyst is guilty of this like just how much we crap on david nijoku yeah uh for the year that he had last year because most of it came with joe flacco and it's hard to say that you know he's going to perform at that level with deshaun

watson but he might you know i mean he's a pretty talented guy. I know there's another mouth to feed with the addition of Jerry Judy. Um, but you know, it's still a very tight and friendly offense and will he be able to, you know, be second on the team and targets. And it's not a huge ask, you know, when you talk about Judy and how much he's flopped and elijah moore and not necessarily being a consistent option and is cedric tillman going to be that guy you know it's it's it and look cooper's entering his 30s may have a contract situation that could keep him out for some time if he goes that route the joku may be one of the best values on draft day if he falls now i don't know if adp reflects where a lot of people are ranking him so you can you can answer that adam

because i really look but adp he's like ninth tenth he's higher they're higher on so then i guess you know that's that's a that's a moot point when i'm bringing up but um in any event you know he he feels like he's not getting enough respect you know from where people i think are viewing him from for our industry um but yeah for me this tight end group is kind of the the desperation group. And these, these three guys, I'd be comfortable pairing with Bowers. Um, aside from the Joko, you can, you can pair Goddard and Fryer Muth with him and, you know, hopefully get, you know, the type of production that you'll need until maybe Bowers takes off. You feel

comfortable enough with it. But I do think that, uh, of this group, you know, and again, I just don't have it ranked this way right now, but that will, that will most likely change is Fryer Muth is the one that I target the't have it ranked this way right now, but that will, that will most likely change is Fryer. Muth is the one that I target the most. And I think he's going to have, uh, a pretty significant breakout season. Okay.

So this is in a joke who got it in Fryer within tier five. Yeah. You look at, you look at, I know Russ's history of throwing to his tight ends. Isn't exactly the best, but Arthur Smith's history of using his tight ends and you can look at pits last year and say, Oh my God, it was terrible. And it was,

but the targets that he allots to his tight ends is very significant. And so when you talk about no number two receiver, a coordinator who's leaned on his tight ends and it's not just Atlanta, it was also in Tennessee, by the way, the way, he started as a tight ends coach before he was the office coordinator. There's a lot to like about Friar Muth's situation who, as we know, had a rookie campaign that we thought was going to lead to a pretty quality breakout second year

and it just didn't happen. And then he was hurt last year. So I like the setup for Friar Muth a lot. Arthur Smith's offenses as either a head coach or an offensive coordinator, they've ranked top eight in tight end target rate in all five seasons. All five seasons.

So, all right, so that's tier five is Njoku, Goddard, and Fryermuth. One thing I just want to say about Goddard, I think the biggest thing holding him back has been touchdowns, and he just doesn't... Now, on the previous iterations of the Eagles offense, he doesn't run routes inside the 10-yard line. They just don't use him like that.

Could that change under Kellen Moore? He's got three, three, and three targets inside the 10-yard line in his last three seasons. That's insane for a tight end on a really good offense. So he just doesn't run routes. He doesn't get targeted there. If that changes under Kellen Moore, that could really help Dallas Goddard.

Dave, um, tier six for Jamie is Hawkinson Schultz and commit. So tier five is in the joke who got her in Fryermuth tier six is Hawkinson Schultz and commit. And I, you know, what do you think?

Well, once we get to tier five, I just lump everybody together. Cause we're talking around 11 plus. And these are guys who might be streamers, might be sleepers. I think that this is where those names probably belong. That includes Hawkinson, but Hawkinson would be at the top of my list here. And just because of the upside that he might have as a second half type of contributor for your fantasy team this season especially if you've got ir spots i'll take them ahead of everybody that we've talked about in the last four minutes or so

so that's the joke no joke who got it in friar muth you're saying yes i'll take them ahead of all those guys but that's assuming that i've got a spot to put them in right after the draft and assuming that i can go right to my waiver wire after the draft and replace them with one of these tight ends that might go undrafted. Now I expected Joku Fryer Muth Goddard to get drafted in every single league. So we're talking about some other tight ends in, in this range, but one of these guys that you could get as someone to just begin the year

with as a streamer and just see what happens. And hopefully Hawkinson's back by call it week six. Hopefully he's fine. Hopefully he gets a lot of targets in that offense because the quarterbacks that are there a little bit different than Kirk cousins might be a little more gun shy, might want to rely on a big tight end like Hawkinson to go in and pick up a bunch of numbers there.

So I like the value of Hawkinson when you can get them late. We'll see how Fryer Muth's ADP plays out, but in a 10 team league, I think there's a very good chance he does not get drafted. A decent chance. That would surprise me. Decent chance.

That would surprise me. Well, he's tight end 14. I'm not usually getting a backup tight end in a 10-team league. Sure, I get that, but on the flip side, if there's a player at any position who you can look at and say,

all right, they've got upside to really outperform what they've done in the past and certainly outperform their ADP. You're going to, you're going to, you know, put a pin on that guy and put them on your bench and see what happens. Yeah.

At least for the first few weeks of the season for our youth is perfect for that. Whether you can get Laporta in round three and still go get fire Muth with a late pick. Yeah. I think Jamie's right on with this one. Listen, there've been,

there've been multiple tight ends who've gotten work in the same season for Arthur Smith's offense. I looked at the depth chart in Pittsburgh. I have a hard time believing that my Cole Pruitt and Darnell Washington are going to take significant targets away from Pat Friar Muth on a week-to-week basis,

and it's the same argument that we make with a lot of other tight ends. There's a chance that Friar Muth could be number two on the team and targets. Okay. But you didn't think. That's not a bad guy to go and get in the double-digit rounds. A year ago, you didn't think Johnnie Smith would have more targets than Kyle Pitts. That's true.

But Johnnie Smith is on Miami now and not Pittsburgh. I know. I know. I'm just, you know what, at my point. All right. Where. Hold on. And we did see that kind of coming during the year early on in the year when John

Smith was he looked better than Kyle Pitts out there on the field we talked about that on early waiver wire shows and Smith for a spell was okay for fantasy hopefully that doesn't happen in Pittsburgh hopefully Friermuth takes that next step he's been over just over nine PPR points per game in his first two seasons last year was step back. I think he got hurt a little bit. And obviously the Pittsburgh offense was a total catastrophe. He should get back to that nine point average this year. Jamie, if TJ Hawkinson is ready for week one,

which tier he's currently in tier six, which tier would you put Hawkinson? And if he were ready for week one, uh, tier four, but still very concerned. I, think that the the knee injury the timing of the knee injury the timing of the surgery the quarterback situation that's going on there like i know dave's excited about him to a degree but i i just can't buy it you know i i think it's

going to take a long time for hockinson to get back to playing at the level he was at and we may not see it until december uh tier tier four by the way was the bowers ferguson tier so yeah that's where he'd belong i'd be shocked if he was ready to go for week one by the way okay tier six was hawkinson schultz and commit and tier seven you know obviously schult and Kmet unfortunately have to contend with really good three-receiver sets. Tier seven is... All right, now we're definitely talking about streamers here.

Right? Ben Sinnott. Well, what are the names? Let's see. Ben Sinnott, Luke Musgrave, Hunter Henry, Tyler Conklin. Stream. Cross the streams. Yeah. Don't cross this stream. I'll streams. Yeah. Don't cross this stream.

I'll just give you seven and eight. Don't love these guys. Seven and eight. Sinnott, Musgrave, Henry, and Conklin. Henry is interesting. Hold on. Tier eight is John U. Smith, now of the Dolphins. Juwan Johnson for the Saints.

Kate Otten for the Bucs. And Isaiah Likely for the Ravens. Yeah. Jamie, what do you think about this? If you're looking for... I don't know what you're hoping to get out of one of the tight ends in these late tiers. Yeah, and let me bring up a comment here,

Jamie, from Muggsy. The longer this episode goes, the more I'm deciding to stream tight end. I don't really get that. When I look at tier seven and tier eight, the longer this episode goes, the more I'm like prioritizing tight end. What do you think? I think, again, it comes down to, you know, look there, you know, you said the top eight

guys, right? So if you feel like there's eight or you want to throw Ferguson in there you know you you said the top eight guys right so if if you feel like there's eight or you want to throw ferguson in there and say there's nine most of us play in 12 team leagues so there's going to be three managers that if you don't reach or or land one of these guys you're do you want to take bowers and the upside do you want to take no joku and the potential of what he did last year you know we, we'd start to go through the next handful of guys. And so then it just becomes, okay, do I take my, my fifth receiver, my, my fourth or fifth running back, my second quarterback, and then decide I'm going to just dip my toe in the tight end pool and take two of these guys. And so when you get to this point, yes, there, there's going

to be somebody from this group that, that competes to be a top 12 guy. You know, Dave mentioned Henry, he's in an offense that has traditionally been good for tight ends, but we know what Henry's history has been. And you're asking, you know, either Jacoby Brissett, who I think can support him or a young quarterback in Drake May, who could just be an absolute disaster. And Henry flops. Johnson to me is the most interesting if he's healthy, because again, he could be second on the team and targets, but right now he's dealing with a lower leg injury. That's going to keep him out for training camp. And who knows when he's ready for week one? Uh, the, the ones that interest me the most, which is why they're at the top are the two younger tight ends and that Senate and Musgrave,

you know, Musgrave, you do have the potential of a craft being out at the start of the season. He's already on the pop list and he's coming off coming off, I think it was a pectoral or shoulder injury. I don't remember exactly what he's dealing with. But if he's out, we did see, and you mentioned Adam, it wasn't huge production, but Kraft was a low-end starter during Jordan Love's stretch of breakout performances. And this was with Christian Watson on and off the field, so take that into account.

But despite a crowded receiving core, he was getting the job done to a point where you can stream him. Tyler Conklin, you said it, 87 targets three years in a row. Well, now he's getting 87 targets from Aaron Rodgers. And again, we look at this receiving core. We say, Garrett Wilson, who's confident about the second guy right now? That includes Mike Williams, who, by the way, is coming off of an ACL tear. You know, so there's an opportunity for Conklin to be

a pretty significant contributor. So, yes, you know, so there's an opportunity for Conklin to be a pretty significant contributor. So yes, you can get away with streaming. And I do think that one of these guys, you know, and, and if you want to extend it to, you know, the next tier as well, a lot of people are excited about Noah Fant. A lot of people are excited about Mike Gusecki, you know, I know we've been down that road before, but you're hearing some buzz, you know, just based on where their opportunities are in their offenses. But any of these eight to 10 guys that you, you, you're going to see, it would not be a surprise if one or two of them either based on injuries to guys in front of them, or let's say Bowers,

not living up to the hype or the joke of, you know, flopping, um, because of Watson that they creep into the top 12 and you are getting to that 10, nine to 10 PPR point per game range. And you can get by with that if your team's pretty good. Yeah. I feel the exact opposite of Muggsy. The more that this podcast rolls along, the more I want to lock in one of those first 10 tight ends. I don't want to stream.

I don't want to begin my season with, uh, Najoku and Hunter Henry. And as much as I can tout Hawkinson as a second half guy, I don't feel good about starting my season with Hawkinson on IR. And then someone like Goddard, especially after the stats that Adam talked about, uh, there's other stats on Goddard that make me feel icky. Uh,

and Fryer Muth just got done talking about, but what's the ceiling. What's it, what is the average? What did I say? Those first two years, it was like nine PPR points. I, I, I certainly would like to try and shoot higher than that.

So would I settle for Friar Muth as my starting tight end week one? Of course. But I'd still rather focus on getting one of those first 10. That's my takeaway. Try and get one of the first 10 tight ends on draft day. Unless you've got a feeling about Njoku, Fryermuth, Henry, Goddard, or unless Hawkinson is running around like he's normal in Minnesota, that's the direction I plan on going in.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting with Njoku. He's a top eight per game tight end, two straight seasons. Have you seen the numbers with Watson? Yeah, I have. I saw that he scored. He played five games with Watson scored double digit the last two years he has double digit PPR fantasy points in

each of the last three but obviously he was much better with Flacco because Flacco was much better than Watson but also Watson threw to Elijah Moore a lot and I don't think Flacco really did now you've got Jerry Judy so I do sort of understand I understand why people are down on a joke I think if I didn't get one of those top 10,

I could settle for an a joke. But right. But pull up a Popinski's comment. Cause it's relevant to this one. Yep. Okay. So he's talking about Sam Laporta, Cole commit,

Trey McBride, Jake Ferguson. They all finished top 10. They were drafted outside the first 10 rounds. There will be others. And I bring that up every year. It's like half of the top six tight ends over the last six or seven seasons have been drafted in the double-digit rounds or undrafted.

That's not exactly accurate, but it's close to that. This tight end, that's why we say great or late. I just don't see it this year. I late. I just don't see it this year. I mean, I probably don't see it most year. I never thought Sam Laporta would be that good, but we certainly had some hopes for him. But I don't know, man. It seems like a garbage position this year

when you get past the top 10 or 12, to me anyway. Right, but I think part of that is, and McBride's story probably is a good one because it wasn't necessarily injury. But if there's an injury to somebody on a receiving core. But I called that last year, man. I said that on our tight end preview. I'm like, Trey McBride, you know,

I brought that up. We knew that the potential was there for McBride. Give me a guy other than, like Isaiah likely could, but that would be at the expense of Mark Andrews. But give me a guy that there's an injury to some scrub tight end or some receiver that all of a

sudden bounces up into the top 5-6 discussion. I mean, there's a number of guys that we could say that. Likely it's the one that makes the most sense of all. Right, but we lose Andrews in that case. Give me one that's a net positive. Like Zach Ertz went away.

We got an awesome Trey McBride. I wouldn't be surprised if Romeo Dobbs got hurt and the red zone opportunities go to Musgrave. Sure. And Sinet in Washington, because Zach Ertz is there now. So if Ertz doesn't survive more than a handful of games, then Sinet would get that opportunity. Okay. I mean, a handful of games and Sinet would get that opportunity. Okay.

Um, I mean, I'm, I am. I recall get hurt. John is Smith and what Mike McDaniel could do with him. That's that's interesting. I don't know.

I, although I, I don't, I I'm still a little flummoxed about how he fits into what Miami does. It's going to be different because that's what you're hearing. You're hearing that they haven't gotten from the tight end position what they've wanted the last two years. And so this is why they went and got a playmaker like John Smith.

But it's hard to trust. That's why he's lower than he probably would be if you're hearing some of these things based on this offense. If Diggs were to get hurt, I think that would benefit Dalton Schultz. There's a tight end that I'm really intrigued by, Colby Parkinson in L.A. with the Rams. Let's go to Tier 9. Let's get Tier 9 up there.

It's Parkinson's in there. He's in Tier 9? He is, yep. He might be in Tier 99. And in Seattle, he never really was used a lot as a pass catcher. He's more of those do-it-all type of tight ends, that type of guy. But I think he's a pretty decent route runner, especially for a guy his size. size has got mammoth size.

And, uh, I, I wonder if cup were to miss time, does Parkinson get more run and more opportunities to, to pick up targets in that offense? I kind of like, I kind of, I mean, I want to see how that goes in training camp could be an interesting late, late, late round pick. Yeah. So, so what's Higby's coming off a turn a torn acl and mcl that had to happen in the playoffs yeah um okay so parkinson but there's another guy alan sorry yeah davis allen was the guy that stepped up there so it's it's going to be interesting to see how they use their their tight end group um like dave said parkinson's never done this before but he got paid as if he's going to do it for the first time so there's, it's going to be interesting to see how they use their, their tight end group. Um, like Dave said, Parkinson's never done this before, but he got paid as if he's going

to do it for the first time. So there's some, there's some intrigue there. I would think if something happens to one of the receivers, it benefits to Marcus Robinson, probably more so than, than one of the tight ends. But, uh, sure. It could be Parkinson staffers got a good history of that. And McVeigh's used his tight ends plenty before. I think Robinson's role is locked in.

I think he's their number three receiver. it's definitely locked in guys I I don't know if his targets really go up not if cup gets hurt he'll go up a little if cup gets hurt of course but I I view cup as a lot more of like a short and mid-range type of target red zone end zone type of target for the Rams and not a big play guy like Nakua and Robinson can be. And Parkinson, to me, would fit in more like up than Nakua. Look, we'll see what happens. I'm not saying there are no streamers. I think we're going to talk more about Tyler Conklin

than any tight end throughout the season, like when we're doing our starts and sits, because it's always going to be the struggling tight end that you drafted early-ish versus Tyler Conklin. I think he'll be in the streaming discussion a lot. But I'm curious to see if I'm wrong about this. I cannot see a ton of potential for these undrafted tight ends to really pop and just shock us this year.

But I think I'm guessing that we never see it coming for the most part. And, you know, the three, the three rookies, the three rookies not named Bowers are interesting to me, you know, so send it's the one I like the most,

just because I think based on draft capital and Zachary, it's being at the age that he's at, you know, plus a, a young quarterback in, in Jane Daniels. I know it's sort of a little bit of a misnomer how much they lean on, on tight ends, especially running quarterbacks. But i still think that's a position of interest or a

player of interest for me at least and then when you get to sanders and johnson you know clearly there's opportunities there in offenses that don't have starting or at least you know quality caliber tight ends in front of them you can say bellinger you can say tremble you know whatever you want to look at for these you know teams but clearly those guys have flopped um in or been replaced in situations before so those guys uh interest me jelani woods for example interest me because of richardson and he was leaning on his tight ends last year in in the small sample size so again it's hard to say there's guaranteed production there and then clearly taste some hills yeah taste some Hill could be the guy, right? If he's tight end eligible, sure.

If he's tight end eligible, that's correct. So there's – again, and people like Gusecki and they like no Fant. For Fant, new offense coming in, how much will Grubb lean on his tight ends? It's not his track record, at least based on his time in Washington. But also, Dave mentioned Parkinson. Parkinson's gone. Will Disley's gone. Those have kind of been a little bit of roadblocks for Fant,

who you recall was part of the Russell Wilson trade. And we just didn't see anything from him over the last two years for a guy that got a lot of hype, especially coming from, you know, tight end you in Iowa. So we'll see if this is his opportunity. Again, crowded receiving core, so hard to expect. Same thing with Gusecki, crowded receiving core, so hard to expect. So there's a lot of potential here. But yes, I don't think anybody would have said, I want to go into the year last year,

streaming the position. Yeah, I'll just take a chance on Laporta and see what happens. You said that a lot, though. You were very high on Laporta. I was very high on Laporta. And again, I'm- Different than Gusecki this year. Laporta. I was very high on Laporta. And again, I'm— Different than Gasicki this year, you know? Like, Laporta had more buzz than any of the guys that we're talking about now. Because it was opportunity. And that was a big part of that. Same thing with Kincaid.

It was opportunity. Except Dawson Knox was kind of, you know, in the way. I remember our—what was our bet? It was—oh, Conqua. Yeah, Kincaid versus Conqua. Yeah, you won that one. But I don't think you should panic, you know, again. And when we're talking about, you know, if you're in love with Friar Muth or

still like Goddard or still like Schultz or still like some of these guys, yes, there's 12 tight ends you could point to and say, I'm going to be comfortable with my starter. But really, there's like nine or 10, you know, and once you get past nine or 10, there's going to be two to three people in every league that's like, I'm stuck. So what do I do? You either look for week one, you look for the early part of the season, or you look for a guy that's got an opportunity and probably two guys that

have opportunities. And then you hope you hit on the next Laporta, which would be amazing or commit or whoever these, you know, Ferguson's the next type of bride that hopefully, you know, step up. But my bride was,

you know, you couldn't use my bride in the first five weeks. Yeah. Nope. Okay guys. But that's why was, you know, you couldn't use McBride in the first five weeks. Nope. Okay, guys. But that's why a lot of people either didn't draft him or drafted him and then cut him. And then someone else picked him up and made out like a bandit.

Okay, so I don't think I have a red tier nine. It was Earths for the Commanders. There's a tier nine? That's what we just had up. Zach Ertz, Mike Kos. Now on the Bengals, Chigo Conquo of the Titans, rookie Jatavian Sanders of the Panthers, Noah fan for Seattle,

rookie Theo Johnson for the giants, Jelani woods for the Colts, Taysom Hill for the saints and Colby Parkinson for the Rams. I think a big part of this conversation, honestly, to me is do you play in a two receiver league or a three receiver league? Personally, I feel like that changes tight end value, honestly to me is do you play in a two receiver league or a three receiver league personally i feel like that changes tight end value but i'm not going to talk about that now because i've got to

save something for the tight end preview in a couple of weeks right you can't just do the same drill so we will uh discuss that how your strategies change in different formats that's jamie and dave i'm adam we'll talk to you tomorrow with a fridaybag. Fantasy football at CBS. I.com. Yes, you are doing. Come on. That is definitely head over heels. No, it's not. All right.

We're out of here. Everybody will talk. Adam, don't take my heart. Don't break my heart. Don't don't don't throw it away.