Fantasy Football Today - TE Tiers! Finding Value Throughout the Draft (07/20 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and wherever else you listen to podcasts.  Vote for Fantasy Football Today for "Best Male-Hosted Podcast" and "Best Sports Podcast" on PodcastAwards.com We'll start with some stats about tight ends (1:40) including a trend that was broken in 2022 and when the top TEs are typically selected in Fantasy drafts. The answer may surprise you! We've also got news and notes (7:35) on Saquon Barkley, the Lions wide receivers and the Patriots backfield, plus a statistical breakout case (12:30) for Kadarius Toney, Kyle Pitts and Alexander Mattison ... Dave reveals his TE tiers! Tier 1 (16:05) is Travis Kelce, duh. Should Kelce be drafted before Cooper Kupp? Is Tier 2 (19:35) only Mark Andrews? How do we separate the five TEs who are taken after Andrews (24:55)? Dave and Jamey disagree on this ... Tier 4 (35:40) may or may not include David Njoku depending on who you ask, but it does include some good young TEs. Tier 5 (40:24) could have some pleasant Fantasy surprises, and then we finish by talking about everyone else (46:35)! ... Email us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dynasty/id1696679179 SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aHlmMJw1m8FareKybdNfG?si=8487e2f9611b4438&nd=1 Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. We are talking tight ends. Tight end tears on Fantasy Football today. It is Thursday. I'm Adam Azer with Jamie Eisenberg. And back from a long trip is, well, if we started a football team, the four of us, Dave would be the tight end. And he is here to talk about his tight end tears. Dave Richard is back.

What's up, Dave? I loved playing tight end in all the unorganized football games that I played in when I was younger. It was a lot better than standing on the sideline and not playing because I was too slow on the bat. I don't think there was a lot of, let's be the tight end. No, I was just happy to play.

It was more just play receiver. I once played in, like, we were playing, like, five on five, pouring rain, and I made the game-winning touchdown catch on a little short throw. Nice. Really? Got sick out. How old was I?

32. No, I must have been like 20. I was older. This was when I was older. All right. Well. How's that for an amazing story? Now everybody's glued into the podcast.

That's good. It's good. It's good. It's fun. Tight end tears. Dave's playing football. He got me six points. You know, I did what a lot of tight ends do to get fantasy points. I caught a touchdown.

You caught a touchdown. For a lot of tight ends, that's all you want from a given week. There you go. We also want targets. We'll talk about that. There have only been three tight ends in the last seven seasons who finished in the top five and were not first or second on their team in targets. You hear us talk about that a lot.

Oh, can he be second on his team in targets? Again, only three tight ends have finished top five in the last seven seasons and were not first or second on their team in targets. But two of them did it last year. George Kittle as tight end three and Evan Ingram as tight end five. Both of them were third on their team and targets. Hey, Travis Kelsey has been tight end one in six of the last seven seasons and tight end two in the other. It's incredible.

But how about this? The gap, whether it was Kelsey in 2020 and 2022 or Mark Andrews in 2021, the gap between tight end one and tight end three has been incredible the last three years. Remember, we had that stretch where we had Ertz and Waller and Kittle and Kelsey, and they were all really good

and not the case anymore. The last three years, there's been at least 90 PPR fantasy points between tight end one and three. It's been 136, 90, and 114 PPR fantasy points between tight end one and three. It's been 136, 90, and 114 PPR fantasy points. Jamie, do you think it'll be that big of a gap? 100 or so, 90 or more PPR fantasy points between Travis Kelsey, who we assume will be number one,

and whoever the heck is going to be tight end three? I hope not. It would be great if there's a little bit more parity and we have a lot of, you know, top-tier players at the position. But, you know, he's just so much different than everybody else. And his role in the offense is so much different. You know, the way they use him. You know, as long as he stays healthy, I would not be surprised if there's that same gap again.

So, good luck if you don't have Travis Kelsey. Like, how many tight ends are we going to talk about today that have the ceiling of 15 PPR points per game? One, maybe two, maybe two, maybe. Yeah. I don't know if I can get to three.

I think pits does. That's who, that's who it would be. If he was on any other team, if he had any other quarterback, I don't care about the quarterback. It's the coach. Really?

You think it's the coach? He doesn't want to throw the ball. I mean, I talked to him. To your point, yes. It has a lot to do with I think trusting the quarterback, but I think unless he has a star

at the quarterback position, this is what they want their offense to be. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Because when I asked him about it, I said, what do you want to see from Pitts this year? And he went back to – He didn't say run blocking, did he?

No. He went back to we had Matt Ryan and we threw it. And then we didn't have Matt Ryan and we didn't throw it. And so, you know, if he has a quarterback, I think that he would throw him. So he doesn't. Yeah, but I think it's got to be, you know, either superstar or just trusted veteran. Like, I think if you had, like, a Dak Prescott, for example. Oh, yeah.

This is the same offense. No, I think this is the same offense. Really? Yeah, I think it's the same offense. I think he'd throw it more. If he had Dak? I don't think so. I'm saying, like, somebody that's in between that, you know.

Dak's a pretty good passer. But what I'm saying is, like, he's, I think, better than a game manager. Dak's not better than a game manager? He is. Oh, okay. He's better than a game manager. It's got to be somebody worse than Dak. It doesn't matter. He doesn't have that He's not... It's got to be somebody worse than Dak. All right, it doesn't matter.

He doesn't have that 15-point upside with Desmond Ritter. Well, the only tight ends who have done it in the last five years or four years, I guess, Kelsey, Kittle, Waller, Andrews, the only tight ends who have averaged 15 or more points per game, you're talking... Like, Kittle did it with 85 catches, 1,053 yards, and five touchdowns in 14 games. I guess I could see that in 17 games.

I don't know about in 14 games for Pitts. But, okay, so. I think maybe Waller can get there. Oh, wow. He's done it. But Kittle's done it multiple times. But we're not really thinking he can do that? Not if everybody's out in San Francisco.

Agreed. So, let's last stat here. And this is really important for Tears. Over the last five seasons, 25 tight ends have finished top five, obviously. 48%

of them, so that's 12 of 25, have been drafted in round 10 or later, including in that crazy greater late. So I would say greater late Evan Ingram and TJ Hawkins and TJ Hawkins was around 10 pick last year, according to fantasy football calculator. So 12 of 25 over the last five years have finished top five and been drafted around 10 or later.

It happens all the time and you never think it would happen, but it does. Um, all right, so we'll get back to our tight end tears in just a bit. We've got, let's see, we've got about five hours left.

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and for Best Sports Podcast. Fantasy Football Today, please vote for us. Just go to podcastawards.com. You can follow the links. You have to put in an email address. It takes 30 seconds. All right, some news and notes. We've got Saquon Barkley.

Dave, what do you think? He's saying he might have to consider sitting out the season. He's cursing. He's dropping the F word. It's very inappropriate now. He seems angry. And are you going to drop him in your rankings, Dave Richard? Not now.

It's going to be hard to view him the same way if he misses all of training camp and shows up on the doorstep of the giants just before the season starts if he does that then you've got to figure it's going to take him about a month to really get into game shape and to start putting up numbers that we'd want to see from him but the giants have their veterans aren't even there yet so let's just see what happens before we sink them same thing thing with Jacobs, by the way. Dallas guard, Zach Martin, one of the best in the business.

He is threatening to sit out the start of training camp. He wants a new contract. The Jets placed Brees Hall. Their tight end, Dave, CJ Uzabla! And Randall Cobb on the pup list.

So again, a lot of guys are going to go on the pup list. If they can go on the pup list, come off any time. If they start the season on the pup list, that's a different story. But right now, it's fine to be on the pup list. You don't love it, but it's not a surprise for Brees Hall. The Jets also traded Denzel Mims and a 2025 seventh round pick to the Lions for a conditional 2025 Brees Hall. The Jets also traded Denzel Mims and a 2025 seventh-round pick to the Lions for a conditional 2025 fifth-round pick.

So Denzel Mims going to the Lions. Jamie, is there any sleeper-wide receiver? I think you may have touched on it yesterday with Marvin Jones. Any sleeper-wide receiver on the Lions? I would still think Marvin Jones over Denzel Mims. But look, there's a six-game window where somebody can step up and help Amaro St. Brown. You know, I would love it to be Sam Laporta, you know,

until we get another tight end that's in the mix, you know, just to stick with the theme of the show. But with Jameer Gibbs, you know, we saw last year DeAndre Swift top 10 in running back targets. So there's an opportunity for him to step up in the passing game. So we'll see. You know, I think you could see a situation where of those six games,

you were to say, who's going to be the second leading receiver. Um, it could be Marvin Jones for probably for those games. And then somebody else for two, maybe it's Denzel men. So if you're in a deep dynasty league, you want to take a flyer on him.

You have an open roster spot. Can't hurt. Uh, but obviously there's a reason he hasn't been able to produce for the jets for the last couple of years. So, um, not a bad move for Detroit, able to produce for the Jets for the last couple of years. So not a bad move for I. Detroit just to kick tires on somebody that

should have a chance to be a playmaker. I am on the Josh Reynolds train as a sleeper that you're probably never going to draft unless you're in a super deep league. Did you take him in the fish? I did. He was actually my last

pick and I think the second you take him in the fish? I did. He was actually my last pick, and I think the second-to-last pick in the draft. Marvin Jones is 33. Josh Reynolds had five games last year with six or more targets. He scored 15 or more PPR fantasy points in four of those five games. I am not trying to be a strong advocate for Josh Reynolds, but if I had to guess who the second-best receiver on the team is, guys, I'm putting it out there, it's going to be a strong advocate for Josh Reynolds, but if I had to guess who the second best receiver on the team is,

guys, I'm putting it out there, it's going to be Josh Reynolds. I mean, there's a history between Jared Goff and Josh Reynolds. Yeah. We'll see. All right. More news. The Patriots worked out Leonard Fournette and Daryl Henderson. Dave, does that give you the heebie-jeebies at all about Ramondre Stevenson?

Not really. It gives me the heebie-jeebies about Pierre Strong and Kevin Harris and everybody else on the depth chart behind him, not named Ty Montgomery. I think we know what Ty Montgomery can do, which is basically play passing downs and then miss like six games and be a pain in the butt for fantasy. I think they're looking to just see what's out there as far as veteran running backs that could come in and help be a good backup, maybe play 15 snaps a game, maybe get five, six touches a game.

I wouldn't get too freaked out about it right now. Okay. Dave sounds like he's somewhere from zero to two on the heebie-jeebie-oh-meter. Yeah, I have a question here I do need to clarify. I said Josh Reynolds, my pick to be second on the team among receivers, and Joel said not Jamison Williams. I don't know.

It's pretty interesting if you gave Reynolds a six-game head start, but I guess I'd still give Jamison Williams the nod. I would expect him to be the second-best receiver. Reynolds was drafted in 15 of the Scott Fishbowl leagues. Hey, that's me. How many were there? In the Scott Fishbowl?

Like 300 leagues? It feels like 5,000 leagues. It feels like everybody's drafting in the Fishbowl. So you and 14 people from Detroit. There we go. Oh, you'll see, everybody. Let's see. Did you get him later than anybody else?

I think, like I said, I'm pretty sure he was the second to last pick in the draft. You took him with the 11th pick in round 22. Let's go. All right. Jared Dubin, one of our writers on CBSSports.com, one of our NFL writers, he wrote an article, one breakout for each team. This is a great story. It's not a fantasy story.

There are a lot of offensive players. There are a lot of pass rushers on there. But just some of the guys he mentioned, I'm just going to give some guys and some stats from Jared Dubin's breakout article. Kadarius Toney, he says about Kadarius Toney, over the past two seasons, 147 wide receivers have run at least 250 routes. Among that group, only five players have been targeted more often on their routes than Tony. And those five players are Cup, Adams, Tyreek Hill, Drake London, and Chris Olave.

So he's got the sixth best target per route run rate among all wide receivers in the past two seasons with 250 or more routes run. That's Kadarius Tony. For Kyle Pitts, Jared Dubin's argument was in the past two seasons with 250 or more routes run. That's Kadarius Toney. For Kyle Pitts, Jared Dubin's argument was Pitts was targeted on 28% of his routes run. It's actually higher than Kadarius Toney. 12th highest mark among 334 players

who ran at least four routes per game. But Marcus Mariota had the second worst off-target rate in the NFL according to True Media. So again, it's a similar argument for Tony and Pitts. A lot of routes run. Actually, I think I'm... It's more than just that. No, no, targets per route.

It's a lot of targets on the routes. Targets per route run. Right, targets per route run. Yeah, it's a valuable stat. Yeah, both those guys being targeted over the last two years on almost 28% of their routes run, which is really good.

Jared mentions Rams rookie wide receiver Puka Nakua as a potential breakout. And that's just a name to know. You've heard it a lot. Jacob Gibbs has talked about it a lot. We've had some other guys come on in the advanced stats world. The advanced stats guys like Puka Nakua. And then Alexander Madison has a breakout. He says,

Madison's been given only six opportunities to start in his career, but during those games, Madison has averaged 23.3 touches for 115.5 total yards per game and scored five touchdowns. That's the equivalent of nearly 2,000 total yards and 14 scores across a full season. That is technically true.

Yeah, right. There's some caveats played some easy competition. There's some context needed to support that. Yeah. Um, but it's good stat and a good article. Give it a read. All right,

we'll take a break. Dave's tight end tears will be unveiled after this. We're also going to try to read some emails today at fantasy football at cbsi.com. And tomorrow we have a live mock draft at 9 30 AM. Eastern 12 FFT listeners or viewers. We'll be right back. Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference. Securian Canada gives you that coverage. For more than 65 years, Securian Canada

has been helping Canadians build secure tomorrows. Their insurance solutions are designed to help protect you and your loved ones financially, giving you the peace of mind to focus on what truly matters. Find their products through banks, credit unions, and associations, or visit SecurianCanada.ca. Securian Canada, insurance designed for life. Well, Dave, I'm going to guess tight end tier one. It's Travis Kelsey.

I get it. It's him and Cole commit. I always forget commit. No, I'm just kidding. It's Kelsey. Obviously an amazing fantasy player. Somebody who you're expecting to be head and shoulders above everybody else at that position. Somebody who should produce pretty darn close to the other non-quarterbacks that you take in the first round. He's got consistency on his side.

He's in the right offense. You look at the changes that Kansas City made this offseason. You could argue that those changes helped Kelsey moving into 2023. And the only argument that I can think of against Travis Kelsey is that he's got the same age concerns that anybody who's 30 or older has who you take in round one, same age concern is Cooper cup, same age concern is, I mean, not really Derek Henry cause he's technically 29 and he's a running back and he's not necessarily going in the first round. Oh, it's McCaffrey and Eckler. Well, but those guys aren't 30 either.

No, but they're age concerns. Right. Relative to their positions, they are age concerns. But I think you look at what Eckler and McCaffrey have done over their careers and you can say, all right, if they're right, they're going to score more points per game than even Travis Kelsey. Yeah. they're right, they're going to score more points per game than even Travis Kelsey. They're doing it at a position that isn't as tough to find consistency with. It's tough, but not as tough as tight end can be. I think he's absolutely worth a top 10 overall pick. I don't have a problem with anybody that takes him

third, fourth in round one. You want to have that tight end advantage. Scored more than five points per game than tight end two last year. I think there were only five games last year where he didn't score 15 PPR points. Yeah, amazing. Seems like a safe pick to me. So he gets his own tier

at the top of the tight end tiers. Do you have an official I am taking Travis Kelsey blank overall? I've got him sixth. I'm ahead of Saquon. Jamie, how about you? Five for me. Okay.

Okay, so let me give you my top five. Tell me who you're taking Kelsey over. Justin Jefferson, Christian McCaffrey, Austin Eckler. This is full PPR. Jamar Chase, Bijan Robinson. I believe I have him ahead of, I'm just going to pull it up, make sure I have it. I believe I have him ahead of B. John. Okay, I get it.

Rookie running back, never done it before. Should still be good, but they could both be running back. No, I have him ahead of Eckler. He's fourth for me. Oh, you have him ahead of Eckler? Yeah, I only have one running back ahead of him. And you guys both have Kelsey ahead of Kup? Yeah.

Yes, but it's super close. Okay, because Cup, I mean, as good as Kelsey is, Cup has been four to seven points better than him per game. Well, actually, over the last two years, I mean, he was like, yeah, even more than that. But let's say roughly five points better than him per game. All right, well, we know their concerns with Cup. Let's go to tier two. even more than that. But let's say roughly five points better than him per game. So, all right. Well, we know their concerns with Cup.

Let's go to tier two. That does include 2021 for Kelsey, which was a down year for him. Right, but even his best year was nowhere near what Cup has been the last two seasons. Right, his best year was 2020. It was 20.3 PPR points per game. And if Cup is right, he's better than that. Much better.

He's 25. All right. Tier two is interesting. I thought tier two would be a one-man tier, Dave. It is a three-man tier. Who is tier two at tight end? Mark Andrews is at the top, and I think he's obviously going to go ahead of the other two tight ends

after him. You could easily make him. You can give him his own tier. I think he's worth a round three pick. He's been a very good tight end for a long time. And yeah, every other year of his career besides 2021, he's been between 11.6 and 13.4 PPR points per game. So not quite 15. He was at 17.2 in that magical 2021 season when he did better without Lamar Jackson than with Lamar Jackson. Just, he's the consolation prize for the fantasy manager

who wants to draft Kelsey, but just can't. You know, because Kelsey gets taken in front of him. There's nothing you can do to get Kelsey. Who else is in the tier though? Who else is in the tier? Did you say who else was in the tier? I did not. It's Hawkinson and Pitts behind him. It wouldn't surprise me if they all wound up pretty close to each other in PPR points per game when the season's over.

But Andrews has more upside and is probably a lot safer than the other two. Jamie, do you think Mark Andrews should have his own tier? I do. I think, you know, again, not to, to go back to what we've talked about with running backs and receivers, you know, you kind of do this exercise a little bit different, you know, in terms of how many players you want to put in a tier.

But I do think at this position, it's pretty clear. There's a one, there's a two, there's probably four guys. You can say it could be the three and then it's kind of everybody else. So I think, yes,

Kelsey's in a tier by himself kelsey's in a tier by himself andrew's in a tier by himself i don't disagree with dave that they could be close by the end of the season but they're not going to be drafted that way and so i would i would approach it as if i'm looking at kelsey round one i'm looking at andrews back in the round two early round three and then round five is where i start to look for everybody else. Do you guys take Mark Andrews over? I think we talked about this group of wide receivers yesterday. It was Jalen Waddell, Devontae Smith, T. Higgins, and Chris Olave. Nope.

No, but the next group, yes. I would take him over Olave, but that's it. Well, Jamie, if you're saying you're considering Mark Andrews in late round two, you're probably not, though. Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood you. I would take those receivers ahead of him except for Olave as well. Okay. All right. So Andrews over Olave?

I would take Andrews over Olave, yes. Okay. All right, so I think we should just group tiers two and three together here because Jamie would have Mark Andrews in his own tier. I'm curious, Davis, the way you went about separating tiers two and three

with Hawkinson and Pitts in a higher tier than Kittle, Goddard, and Waller. Really, I've spoken about tight ends so much, but not as much with you guys. I feel like it's been with Jacob or Chris or Dan or something like that. And I feel like we've sort of said,

at least Chris and Dan, Hawkinson, Pitts, Kittle, Goddard, Waller could be in any order. Why would you take the first one in this group? It felt like a huge tier to me. But you, Dave, have put Hawkinson and Pitts in a tier above Kittle, Goddard, and Waller. Talk about that. I think Hawkinson and Pitts have upside to get around 12 to 13 PPR points per game.

At least, well, I can't use the word reliable with Pitts. I can kind of use it with Hawkinson, but I can't use it with Pitts. I think that they're just, those are two tight ends that I would feel better about drafting than the other three. I'm not excited about Kittle, Goddard, or Waller. And we can get into that. But I just feel like Hawkinson's safer, especially in PPR, non-PPR. In non-PPR, I think I have Pitts ahead of Hawkinson, just because I think that Pitts has that kind of upside. And because he's got that kind of upside in non-PPR, yes, he's got it in full PPR too. I'm okay with putting Pitts ahead of the older slash

little bit more touchdown needy type of tight ends, which are Kittle, Goddard. Waller, not necessarily painted with that brush, but someone that's got some serious downside based on health risk. When you're drafting Pitts, you're just drafting for the chance of him to finally live up to his talent. So that's the hope is that he can overcome his quarterback. He can overcome his offense. He could finally live up to what the expectations are. And those are still some huge risks involved with that. But if he does hit, you know, I mean, we've seen what he can do from a yardage standpoint as a rookie, which is, you know, somewhat unprecedented to go over a

thousand yards in that season. And then who knows what would have happened last year if he stayed healthy, but obviously the quarterback scenario was not very good. Quarterback situation is still not very good. And now he's got to contend with one of the best running backs that we've seen come into the nfl in the last 10 years on top of the fact of a coach that wants to run the ball and it's just it's it's hard to say that there's there's a safety factor with him but there's just the upside factor with him that correct you know supersedes most of the guys in this position even travis kelsey if kyle pitts were to probably play to his potential so jamie do you see a separation between at any point between those five tight ends, Hawkinson, Pitts, Waller?

I don't know. No? You think they're in the same tier? Yes, I do. I think they're not going to be drafted the same way. But I think, for me, I have a hard time keeping Waller from being the third tight end just because I think if he does stay healthy, he's going to beat Hawkinson, Pitts, Kittle, and Goddard. I think there's just that opportunity is there for him. You know, you see what this receiving core looks like.

I mean, Adam, you know, you were trying to convince me about Paris Campbell being a somewhat relevant player for the Giants, which makes sense, you know, given the injuries. But again, that's part of it. You know, Wanda Robinson's hurt and Isaiah and Stoic Shepard's hurt, you know, and so we know what the middle of the field has been to Daniel Jones. Isaiah Hodgins, you know, had a great, you know, finish last year. Darius Slayton had some very positive moments last year

that probably underrated, but, you know, those guys are just, I think, guys. And Darren Waller was their prize acquisition this offseason. And again, when he's been healthy, superstar. So if he stays healthy, probably going to have a monster season. It's just a matter of can

you buy into it after two years of him not being healthy so i love the setup for him i think if he if he hits he's better than hox he's better than pitts he's better than kill he's better than goddard um by the way what i said to jamie i texted him i said jamie i have a sleeper for you i can't say it on the show because it's so unlikely but if it hits you'll have to give me public credit for it so that's always the best way to set it up right because if it hits, you'll have to give me public credit for it. So that's always the best way to set it up, right? Because if it doesn't hit, no one's ever going to know. And then I said it was Paris Campbell. So now it's out there. If Paris Campbell hits, I want the credit. If it doesn't hit, I never intended for anyone to hear it. This is Jamie's fault. All right. So Dave,

try to explain a little bit more why you're not as high on that group of Kittle, Goddard, Waller, why you don't view them in the same tier. I know you touched on it. I think you kind of talked about it more from the two who are in the better tier, Pitts and Hawkinson, but let's maybe more focus now on Kittle, Goddard, and Waller. It's all about upside and which ones have it and which ones don't. And you can make the case that Kittle, Goddard, and Waller all do have upside. I'll start with Goddard. I think he's the safest of the three. We've seen him play the majority of games of those three.

Yeah, he got hurt last year. It's going to happen to all players where injuries come and go. But you know he's not the number one target in the Philadelphia offense. You know the Philadelphia offense isn't one that's going to pass like crazy. And yet, still, he averaged 11.8 PPR points per game last year. The year before that, when the offense wasn't even as good as it was, and they didn't have A.J. Brown, he had fewer PPR points per game. So Goddard does have appeal as a safe tight end,

not necessarily one that can get you 13 or 14 PPR points per game. He's a settle for tight end. Kittle, in his last eight overall with Brock Purdy, including the playoffs, pretty awesome. that can get you 13 or 14 PPR points per game. He's a settle for tight end. Kittle in his last eight overall with Brock Purdy, including the playoffs, pretty awesome. Seven touchdowns on seven red zone targets, 12 plus PPR in five of eight games. But we've talked about what he looks like when everybody else is healthy in San Francisco.

And it's ugly with Purdy, with Debo, with Iuke, with McCaffrey, five games. This includes the playoffs, but not the playoff game that Purdy got hurt in against Goddard's Eagles. It was 10 PPR points per game, two touchdowns, 12-plus PPR in just two of five games. Both the touchdowns came against Arizona. I am nervous that George Kittle won't be anywhere near

11 PPR points per game or 12 PPR points per game if Iuke takes that next step. If Debo Samuel stays healthy, if Christian McCaffrey is even more involved in this offense in his, after his first full off season of being entrenched there. So he makes me nervous. Waller makes me the most nervous because he's missed at least six games each of the past two seasons.

His pace last year in Las Vegas was 53 catches, 733 yards and six touchdowns. That's not even 10 PPR points per game. I watched his last final four games of the regular season when he was healthy. He struggled to separate from press coverage or physical coverage, knew how to get open versus zone, still moved pretty well for a tight end, still could leap. But this is a Giants team. They were 52% pass last year, including 39% pass in the red zone. And they really liked spreading the ball around.

There wasn't one guy that got a ton of targets, head and shoulders above the rest. But there wouldn't be. I mean, that's why they brought in Waller, right? Yep. Maybe. It's part of it. Listen, I like that he's a differentiator.

I like that he's a differentiator in his size. Besides Isaiah Hodgins, they don't have anybody that's got size to them. But I still don't think he's going to dominate targets week in and week out in that offense. I do. For whatever games that he's there for. I think they're going to spread it around. I will allow myself to change my opinion if there is no Saquon Barkley

because then I think they will throw a heck of a lot more than they did last year with Barkley. So we'll see what that happens. And it's a tough schedule as well. They play a lot of really tough defenses. So I think the downside for Waller is greater than Goddard and is greater than Kittle. And that's why he's last for me among these five.

It's so interesting. Hawkinson is the one that's drafted me among these five. It's so interesting. Hawkinson is the one that's drafted third among those five after Kelsey and Andrews. Would it be fair to say that Hawkinson has the fewest question marks of that group of five? Yes. Depends how much you buy into Jordan Addison. Because if you buy into Jordan Addison being that much better than Adam Thielen and commanding more than 100 plus targets, then it's going to be a problem for TJ Hoxton. Because, again, this is a guy that had some big spike games last year, even in Minnesota.

But they are going to throw the ball probably more than any of these other teams. So that's where he sort of benefits. So if you think there's going to be a target crunch because of whatever Addison does on top of the numbers that went to Thielen and then still KJ Osborne being somewhat of a factor and then whatever they decide to do with their running backs then Hawkins is going to suffer a little bit but I think he's fine I think he's

shown you enough that when he has capable quarterback play, offense is going to trust him and the fact that Minnesota went out to go get him last year they believe in what he can do and I think fantasy managers should as well Okay and you know they believe in what he can do. And I think fantasy managers should as well. Okay. And, you know, the stat I keep giving about the being top two in targets being so important, it's pretty hard, I think, to envision that for Goddard. You know, we sit here with everyone healthy.

He should be third on targets. He will be third. Yeah. And Kittle probably would be too. Does that matter to you? Because like I said, there were two... You know, that whole trend

was pretty much broken last year with two of the top five being third on their team in targets, Kittle and Ingram. But how much... David, how much does that matter to you? This is something we look for.

Kind of hard to see it with Goddard. And a little bit easier, but not that easy with Kittle. With Goddard, he had 69 targets in 12 games and only three touchdowns, and he still averaged 11 PPR points per game. So I'm hoping that he can be at least on that same target pace, maybe a tick higher.

Maybe Philadelphia throws it a little bit more, and Goddard can stay as a pretty consistent fantasy tight end. Kittle worries me just because of everybody else who's there. I feel like he needs an injury. He needs one of those other guys to miss time in order just to reemerge as the go-to touchdown target for Purdy in that offense. And maybe inside the 10, he still is when everybody's healthy, but I,

I have a hard time believing that the targets will still be strong for him when everybody else is there. I give you guys just some numbers here because Dallas Goddard before the injury, he was the number three tight end per game. He was on pace for a hundred targets and Devante he was the number three tight end per game. He was on pace for 100 targets. And Devontae Smith was the number 35 wide receiver per game. And he was on pace for 115 targets.

He just wasn't really that good with it. And then Goddard gets hurt, and they play five games without Goddard. Goddard comes back, last three games of the season. Smith and Brown are great. Goddard stinks. He gets five targets per game. Didn't score a touchdown. It wasn't that bad.

I mean, he was on pace for eight. He averaged 9.3. That was also with what? One game with Minshew? Two games. Two games with Minshew and one with Hurts. Including weekend.

And then it injured Jalen Hurts. And they threw a lot. They threw 35.6 pass attempts per game, which was more than you usually see. Then in the postseason, Goddard had 18 targets in three games. So that's a pace of 102 targets. So I guess before his injury,

on pace for 100 targets, it really didn't change that much. I think he just didn't score as many touchdowns, and Devontae Smith got so much better throughout the season. So Goddard wasn't really a standout like he was before his injury when Smith wasn't really doing much. But can he be great with 100 targets?

Maybe he can. Can he get 100 targets? I don't know. 100 targets for Goddard, yay or nay? I'll say yay. Yeah. All right. And then let's wrap this up here.

We'll take a break and talk about the other guys because, remember, 48% of the top five tight ends in the last, I think I said five seasons, five seasons, have been drafted around 10 or later. So there are a lot of relevant players we're still going to talk about. You know, Jamie, if you don't get Kelsey or Andrews, you're content waiting for whoever's close to last

in this group, right? 100%. And Dave, you're going to be whoever's close to last in this group, right? A hundred percent. And Dave, you're going to be a little more aggressive. Are you going to get into the Hawkinson pits? Are you okay? Yeah. That's why there's that tier split for me because I'm okay.

Assuming that I can get them in that basically round five range, which will be harder to do with Hawkinson and full PPR. But if I'm getting a little bit of value on Hawkinson or Pitts, I'm taking them. Okay. Let's take a break here and we will get to tier four after this. Tier four has a guy who was the fifth best tight end in fantasy last year. Overall points. That was Evan Ingram.

Dalton Schultz. Oh, Dave, I think I forgot to update this. So Njoku's in here, right? Nope. Oh, he's not, but Okonkwo is out. Okonkwo is out.

All right, so it's Ingram, Schultz, Friermuth, and Dulcich. Ingram, Schultz, Friermuth, and Dulcich. And how do you feel in general about this tier? These are the tight ends that I'm hoping can get me an average of 10 PPR points per game. So guys that might get five targets per game, catch four of them for anywhere from 50 to 60 yards, score the occasional touchdown, not necessarily guys that can be the top target getter on their

team or the second top target getter on their team, but players who are going to be involved in their offenses to some degree and at a nice discount. So lower expectations, obviously lower draft value, which I kind of like because some of these guys do have upside to get you north of 10 PPR points and maybe finish with 11 or 12. We got to start looking right. We got to look now who could actually be the league winner or the top five

tight end in any way, the big breakout here. Jamie, in terms of Ingram, Schultz, Frymuth and Dulcich, do you think this is a good tier? Do you think these guys belong in the same tier?

And do you see a potential star in here? I would probably, if I'm going to put Dolgers in this tier, I would put Njoku in this tier because I think they're similar in terms of

crowded target share and still plenty of upside. For me, it's Fryermuth and if Kenny Pickett, it's almost like Fryermuth is like a poor man's Kenny, he's like a poor man's Pitts

just because I think if Kenny Pickett can improve just like Desmond Ritter can improve, then I think you'll see Fryer and his numbers pop. The thing that I like about him a lot, and we'll see how they sort of use their receiving core, but you're hearing a lot of reports that they're going to use him sort of like a big slot receiver, and the drafting

of Darnell Washington sort of speaks to that, that they have more of a blocking tight end on the field. He was, he averaged 2.28 yards per route run when lined up in the slot, which is second only to Travis Kelsey. And he was sixth among tight ends and targets per game at 6.1. So if he does see a boost in opportunities and they allow Kenny Pickett to throw more, and then clearly if he gets more touchdowns, you see two only.

Last season scored seven as a rookie the previous year. Then he could be good. So I think it's going to be from a target standpoint. I think Deontay Johnson's one. I think Frymuth is two. And then Deontay Johnson and Allen Robinson sort of fight for three

with hopefully Pickett's being that guy. But I think Frymuth has the best chance to have that breakout campaign. So he's my favorite of this group. Frymuth had the most green zone targets

on the Steelers, although that was only six. He had the most games with 75 or more yards. He had five games at 75 or more yards. That's more than Deontay Johnson, more than George Pickens. So there's good stuff there. His snap count wasn't as high late in the year. After he had an injury at some point in the year,

his snap count didn't quite fully recover to what it was early in the year. So maybe he's able to play more this season. And the Steelers threw 12 touchdowns last year, and one of them was thrown by Chase Claypool. So they will throw more touchdowns this year for sure. Dulcich is interesting to put him in here because Dave, he's a year two tight end, and year two tight ends,

a lot of times you can't even see it coming because they had such a nothing year one. But year two tight ends are a good type of player to target. There's a lot of surprising breakouts there. And Jamie said he would put Njoku in this tier because Dulcich is in there and they're in similar situations. But I guess you do draw a line between Dulcich and Njoku. I like Dulcich's new coaching staff in Denver.

Sean Payton does have a nice track record utilizing his tight ends. They're already talking about Dulcich playing sort of a joker role on offense. Averaged 8.6 PPR points per game last year. I think he can build off that. And I think he's a dark horse candidate to finish second on the team in targets. It's really that simple. Young, athletic, more of a receiving tight end than a blocking tight end who can take a jump in year two.

That's the bet with Dulcich. All right, if you take this tier four as Ingram, Schultz, Freyermuth, and Dulcich, Dave wants to get these guys in round nine or later. If you take one of them as your starting tight end, do you feel like you should take another? Only if you get a good value on another tight end later. I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Okay.

So no. All right. Next group is the streamers and sleepers. And this is David Njoku. I think Heath has Njoku as like tight end six or something. So we're going to have to ask Dave why he's a little lower. Chig Okonkwo, who was in a different tier before the Hopkins news. Dalton Kincaid and Juwan Johnson.

Njoku Okonkwo, Kincaid, and Johnson. And how do you view this tier, Dave? I think these are guys that you draft late. You'll use them as your tight end to begin the season. If they take off, you'll be loving life. If they don't take off, you'll say, no big deal. I took them with a late-run pick. I'll go pick up another tight end off the waiver wire.

You'll cast your rod into the tight end stream, and you'll go that route with the tight end position. How about you, Jamie? How do you feel about this group of Njoku, Okonkwo, Dalton Kincaid, and Juwan Johnson? Again, I don't think Njoku belongs in this group. With the other guys, I would probably add a few more into this group, specifically Tyler Higby and Gerald Everett.

I think they're in similar situations in terms of Higby getting a chance to be the second player in terms of targets on the Rams, and we've seen him have some quality, productive years in the system with Sean McVay, and again, even last year, you know, what his, his chances were. And then Everett, the hope would be very crowded receiving core there clearly with the, with the chargers, but Kellen Moore's offenses that really leaned on their tight ends. And I think Gerald Everett, you know, had some splash plays last year, had a chance, you know, to hopefully get a better system and a better year from Justin Herbert. So we'll be inconsistent, but I think that's kind of what this group is.

So I would put Gerald Everett in this group as well. So Njoku, okay. Well, actually, Davia, let's talk about Njoku because he is sixth in the rankings for Heath. He's 12th for you. He's ninth for Jamie. So you're just not really feeling it. Not feeling it.

I think part of the reason why he had such a successful 2022 is because Jacoby Brissett was his quarterback for the first, however many games of the year it was. Uh, let's call it nine. It looks like no joke. Nine games. Oh,

not yet. It was 11 for nine for no joke. Okay. Yeah. Now look, let's be fair. There were five games that no joke who, and Watson five or six,

I, I, I see a zero for no jokeoku in one of the weeks, so I'm not sure if he played in Deshaun Watson's first game back. But he had two huge games. All right, so five games with him. Two huge games with Watson. 14.2 PPR points, 18.7 PPR points.

The other three games, 5.8 PPR points or less. I don't think Watson necessarily leans on tight ends. I think he likes downfield throws. I think the Browns moves this off season suggests that they're trying to help Watson there by adding Elijah Moore, by drafting Cedric Tillman. And all this talk about Nick Chubb getting more involved in the passing game, those are targets that'll come away from the tight ends. And so I'm just, I'm a little bit nervous that Njoku won't be as good as he was last year,

particularly since last year was the first year in his career he was ever particularly good for fantasy. He was eighth per game. And yeah, he wasn't even that good. You know, 628 yards. He was 10 PPR points per game. It's hard to call a tight end bad when they're doing that. No, I didn't even that good. You know, 628 yards. He was seven PPR points per game. It's hard to call a tight end bad when they're doing that. No, I didn't say it was bad.

I just say he wasn't really that good. But he was on fire before he suffered a midseason injury. He was, gosh, he had like a five-week stretch where he was on pace for nearly 1,300 yards. Weeks three through eight, he was on pace for nearly 1,300 yards, weeks three through eight. He was on pace for 102 catches, 1,289 yards, and three touchdowns on 122 targets, and then he missed two games, and then he really wasn't the same after that. So yeah, Njoku, we talked in depth about him not long ago, but like I said, he did have a year.

I said this on a previous show. He did have a year where he was on a decent Cleveland passing offense, and he was second on the team in targets. His rookie season, I believe it was. Second season in the league. And he was not very good. He had like 640 yards on 88 targets. Just wasn't very good. So hopefully he has to have a better year.

He has to be a better player than he was back then, which is possible. He came into the league very raw. Okay, if you have this group, Njoku, Okonkwo, Kincaid, Juwan Johnson, for Jamie it would be a little bit different. There'd be no Njoku. There'd be Everett and Higby in there.

Just ride it out with one guy or should you draft two tight ends? And considering the fact that every year we get some surprising top five tight end who was either undrafted or drafted really late, should we maybe think more about drafting two tight ends if we're going to go the late round strategy, like rounds 10 and 13 in your league? With these guys, yeah, absolutely you have to.

I think it lends itself to take two swings because you're obviously waiting for a late type of player. It's not a bad idea to take two of these guys and see what happens. Why would you not just see if you can hit with the idea

of, okay, at this point you probably have your running back core and your wide receiver core pretty well set, so you waited long enough. See if you can take two and see what happens. Or point, you probably have your running back core and your wide receiver core pretty well set. So you waited long enough. See if you can take two and see what happens. Or just, you know, depending on at what point in the draft you are in, if you know there's going to be one guy or two guys on the waiver wire that you like, you just kind of wait and see what happens early in the year. What's the argument against taking two tight ends no matter who you take first?

Like, let's say you're Keith and you love David Njoku and you think that he's going to have an even better year with Deshaun Watson than what he had last year, and you can get him for a song in round 10. Even if you take Travis Kelsey in round one, don't think of it as taking, well, I'm only starting one tight end. Think of it more as I'm going to try and get a sleeper or a breakout, especially at a position in tight end that's hard to fill.

Yeah, you better nail that pick. I'm going to go and spend that cheap capital and try and turn it into a player that was taken in round seven or round eight three weeks into the season. Okay, all right. So let's talk about some other guys real quick, just some potential late-round picks or sleepers or free agent additions. We already talked about Dulcich. How about

Trey McBride and Kate Otten? They've got opportunities here. McBride more so than Otten. I love the profile for McBride. I love the opportunity for him to potentially finish second in the Cardinals and targets. Different offense this year than what we saw

last year. It's going to be much more of a West coast system. That's typically been good for tight ends. It's just a matter of, I think he'll play a lot. It's a matter of how many targets he'll get from week to week. Will they, will they try and carve out place specifically for him? Um, and how good will the targets be from anybody not named Kyler Murray? But this is an offense. We talked about Marquise Brown and why we love him. Rondell Moore, why we love him. We figure they're going to be playing from behind and throwing a lot late. This is somebody who is a very good pass catcher with rare size on top of it.

Don't mind one bit. I took him in the fishbowl. Absolutely love the idea of him potentially getting as many as 50 catches this year. Same. The only concern would be if Zach Ertz plays at some point. If he's there, who knows what that does in terms of playing time and opportunity. Now he's coming off of a torn ACL,

right? He's going to have a major knee injury. Yeah. So who knows if he plays. He's got a heavy contract number too. Not that they can do anything with him while he's hurt. But I wonder if he's played his last snap for Arizona. Maybe so. I thought he would have been done.

So McBride is a second-round pick. He had over 1,100 yards as a senior from Colorado State. And in his last four games, he scored 9.5, 4.7, 20.8, and 7.1 fantasy points, which really isn't bad when you're talking about the guys. Adam, we're losing you. I don't know what's happening with the internet there. Maybe you want to restart? Go ahead. You could finish up. Hello, Adam.

How was life on Saturn? All right. So where are we? Can they hear us or them? We'll just talk. Are you going into his notes? Yes, you have McBride and Higby. Yeah. Is that it?

I think you really love Higby. I don't love Higby. I just like the situation for Higby. Again, we're talking about Puka and Tutu Atwell and Van Jefferson and Skoranek. It's a very uninspiring group there. Not that Higby's inspiring. No, but there's target potential. And, you know, again, when we're looking at this,

you know, sometimes you just have to look past talent. You've got to look at opportunity and volume, and there's going to be a lot of volume for Higby, and this is the type of player who, you know, can he get to the 12-point threshold? Probably not. Can he get you 8-10? I think so.

You know, and he's done that for a stretch at times where he did look elite. That one end-of-the-year stretch that he had. Three years ago. I thought that was it. It just, again, when you're looking at players' disposition and what they can get, hopefully the targets lead to some quality production. But a lot of it is depending on, obviously, Matthew Stafford being healthy as well.

Yeah, and then I almost feel like Dalton Kincaid and Jawan Johnson can be discussed similarly. Both young-ish. Kincaid, very young because he's a rookie, older rookie. Jawan Johnson's been in the league for a few years. But they're both move tight ends. I think Johnson's going to go. They're going to do that a little bit more with Johnson this year.

I think he's going to be kind of used like what you talked about with Friermuth, that he can be a big slot receiver for New Orleans, which could be really interesting for them because they've got Thomas, they've got Olave. This is going to be the guy that they use in short and intermediate throws. Once upon a time, we saw Derek Carr connect with his move tight end in Waller. Quite a bit. And so I don't think it's the same situation

because Waller was really on an island there in Oakland when he broke out. But I think that Jawan Johnson could kind of be in that same realm. I don't mind taking a stab with him as a late-round pick. Maybe he develops into somebody that's a little bit more than, you know, three catches and 40 yards a week. Maybe he can get a little bit better than that on a week-to-week basis. He was very touchdown dependent last year. Right, so he's got to break away from that and get a little bit more target share.

And if he's the big slot, I think he can do it. What about the other rookies besides Kincaid? Because you have Laporta in Detroit. You have Mayer in Las Vegas. He's a good overall prospect. And Musgrave in Green Bay. Worried about Musgrave because, honestly, I'm worried about all the rookies less so than Kincaid just because of where he is, what he does, and who his quarterback is.

But the other tight ends I'm not really drafting, including Laporta. I know that there's excitement about him getting the Hawkinson role. That Hawkinson role didn't have a lot of targets from week to week. But it's different now. Because there's no Jensen for six weeks. We'll see. I don't want to bet on him. It's hard to go against him with a late pick.

Round 13, I want to take Laporta. Sure. I can't say that that's a bad thing. But if I'm drafting him with the idea that he's going to finish as a top 10 fantasy tight end, I don't see it in that offense. Well, I mean, look, it's difficult for rookies. I mean, Kyle Pitts had a great year from a yardage standpoint, but he scored one touchdown. Which is crazy.

It's still crazy. Last year was crazy for him. It's very challenging. But the thing, though, about the – you said Hawkinson didn't have good years in Detroit early? No, he did early. But, like, last year before he got traded, I think it's hard. I can look it up for you. He had the one huge game against Seattle. Right, right, right. But other than that, he wasn't

nearly. I think again, you know, this is you're buying into Ben Johnson and the hope that, you know, no Jamison, again, no DJ Chark. Is it really going to be a lot of Josh Reynolds and Marvin Jones or do they, you know, use a guy that has maybe some more upside? Musgraves is an interesting spot because obviously there's a lot of targets available in this Green Bay offense. No more

Robert Tunyon for what that's worth. And then Mayer obviously in the same situation, but you have the quarterback concerns. We've talked about this a lot with the Raiders that can you trust an injured Jimmy Garoppolo to support all of these guys, Devontae Adams, Jacoby Myers, Hunter Renfro, and Mayer. But there is some target opportunities there. I did get my numbers wrong on Hawkinson. He averaged 3.7 catches per game in Detroit last year. So, whoa, seven games in Detroit. Those were his catches. If Laporta gets 3.7 catches per game,

then he could be a touchdown or bust type of tight end. So I give him that. But I like Kincaid better. We didn't really talk so much about Kincaid. Yes. But another big slot type of receiver could be the number two target getter in Buffalo as soon as this year.

That'd be interesting. It would probably be a bad year for Gabe Davis if that's the case. Obviously we've seen some flaws there. A couple of other veteran guys that have some people excited. Mike Isecki going to New England. I kind of wanted to get him in the fishbowl. Irv Smith going to Cincinnati.

And I guess you're talking about Cole Komet as well, but in terms of the two new guys going to different teams. I mean, look, the Patriots were rumored to be in the DeAndre Hopkins mix, and that didn't work out for them. This is one of their big acquisitions along with Juju Smith-Schuster, and they're talking about running a lot more 12 personnel. We're going to get both tight ends on the field with Hunter Henry. So you buy it to Gusecki, who two years ago, three years ago, Juju Smith-Schuster, and they're talking about running a lot more 12 personnel. We're going to get both tight ends on the field with Hunter Henry.

So you buy it to Gusecki, who two years ago, three years ago, whatever it was, was a decent fantasy option as a late-round guy for Miami and now being reunited with Bill O'Brien, so whatever that means. I'm interested, but it's got to be in a tight end premium league. It's got to be in a really deep league. So I'm going like 17- plus rounds, something like that. And I'm just fishing for a dart throw at the end of the draft. I'm not holding last year against Kosicki. I just think he wasn't a good fit for what Mike McDaniel wanted to do. And so now he's in New England. I think he

does fit into what the Patriots can do. But it could be a week-to-week thing. He could be just match--dependent type of guy. I don't think he can necessarily command consistent targets from a game-to-game basis. Can you guys hear me? I got you. You're back. So we need to stop talking about Mike Kosicki. Mike Kosicki's not going to win anybody a fantasy league.

Come on now. Come on. He's had enough chances. He's on New England. There's another tight end there. Come on. New England. There's another tight end there. Come on. New England's never had good tight end play. I mean, okay, Mike, I'm sorry. Gasicki does sound a little bit like Gronkowski.

There are Gs and Is bookending the name. Cole Komet. Talk to me. Let's finish on Cole Komet here. Sure. He, he, he did look good in mini camp catching a lot of deep corner routes from Justin Fields. A lot of them were accurate. I don't know if that's going to be the case when everybody's healthy in

Chicago, that he'll see a volume of six targets per game. Because when you're watching him in minicamp, there's no Mooney on the field, there's no Chase Claypool. Mooney's certainly a better downfield threat than Cole Komet, and Claypool could be a better short area target than Cole Komet. They're kind of both big-bodied dudes. I'm nervous about Cole Komet transforming into a weekly starter in fantasy. He's not on my list of guys to go after with a late-run pick.

He's in that same boat as Kosicki. Maybe in PPR, I'll take Komet. Non-PPR, I'll take Kosicki. But not somebody that I'm super hyped up about. If you're buying into Justin Fields being a better passer, which I think he will be, this should be the second-best pass catcher on the team, especially when he's hurt.

All right, final question here. If you had to pick a rookie or year two tight end to have a huge year, who would it be? Dolchett. That's probably my answer too. Okay. I figure most people are either going to say him. He's my highest ranked year two tight end. Right, but him or Kinca Okay. I figure most people are either going to say him. He's my highest-ranked year-two tight end.

Right, but him or Kincaid, I feel like people would debate. I would lean toward Dolchess personally, but they're back-to-back for me, so I wouldn't necessarily fight anybody that's going to say, you know, take Dalton Kincaid first. But, I mean, look, there's a big opportunity for both. You know, again, I think the Denver offense will be better, and Buffalo's going to use Kincaid. The fact that they traded up in the first round to go get him

sort of speaks volumes to, I think, how they're going to use him. I would have said Oconco before this. I don't think we really touched on that. Yeah. How far did you move him down? Outside top 15. He's not somebody I'm probably going to draft unless I'm taking a chance on a second tight end.

But it's just, there's, unless Tim Kelly's offense is just dramatically different than what we've seen in Tennessee, it's so hard to expect three guys to be relevant. And I would say based on the target share, Hopkins is going to be one, Burks is going to be two, and then Okonkwo and Kyle Phillips are going to fight for three. All right.

Great stuff. Great to have Dave back. Tomorrow, live mock draft. 12 listeners duking it out in a, I think it's a half PPR mock draft. So we're going to do these occasionally here. And we will talk to you then. Have a great night, everybody.

And if there's still time, tinyurl.com slash FFTdonate. Get in the podcast. See you later.