Fantasy Football Today - Top 5 RB Debates! McCaffrey ... Then Who? (06/23 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: June 23, 2020

We know Christian McCaffrey is the top RB in Fantasy, but who is next? Is it Ezekiel Elliott and his 300+ carries? Is it Alvin Kamara and his 80+ catches? Saquon Barkley? Dalvin Cook? Let's see what ADP has to say right now (1:50) as we begin our discussion of these stud RBs ... Fill in the Blank! Most upside other than McCaffrey (9:05)? Least upside (14:45)? Highest and lowest floor (15:15) ... We go in-depth on these RBs (20:00) as you'll hear cases for four of them to be RB2 behind McCaffrey. We may not have seen the best of Kamara yet. Are we about to see the worst from Zeke? And where does Michael Thomas factor in (36:30)? ... Your emails at [e-mail] 'Fantasy Football Today' is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Castbox, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Follow the new FFT Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/FFToday Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @YardsPerGretch, @BenSchragg Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCviK78rIWXhZdFzJ1Woi7Fg/videos Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Fantasy Football Today from CBS Sports. Here we go! Email us at fantasyfootballatcbsi.com. Here we go! It's time to dominate your fantasy league. Let's go! Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. Okay, so on Monday's show we talked about the top five quarterbacks.

We really made it a discussion about the top six quarterbacks. We don't need to do that with running back. It's McCaffrey, Zeke, Barkley, Kamara, and Cook in some order. I'm Adam Azer with Dave Richard and Jamie Isenberg. And now, for the first time in Rankings Week, or Top 5 Rankings Week, here's Ben Gretsch. What's up, Ben? How you doing, man? That was a big intro. I feel like you just rolled out the red carpet for me

to join the second show of the week. I don't know. Now for our second show of the week, here's Ben. Ben, yeah, Ben's hosting this show. It's Tuesday. Well, you know, I just wanted to give him the intro that he needed. I can ask you the same question I asked the other guys. Did you get a goofy tie for Father's Day?

I did not get a goofy tie. I got some arts and crafts and things, which was great. I mean, that's my jam. I like when my girls make me stuff. Cool. Happy Father's Day. Well, this is probably my favorite. My college colors. Got the little dad heart

and, you know, a few things like that here and there hey that's cool i thought they'd make you a data visual on aj brown in between 10 and 20 yards down we keep working on that still we keep getting these emails fantasy football and cbs.com is like this question's for bed i have aj brown should i keep him just kidding here's the real question. All right. So this is what average draft position looks like right now on NFC. The, you know, the high rollers of the fantasy world. Christian McCaffrey first overall, then Barkley, then Elliott, then Kamara, then Michael Thomas, and then Dalvin Cook.

But if you want to remove Michael Thomas, it's McCaffrey, Barkley, Zeke, Kamara, and Dalvin Cook. Jamie, is this difficult for you to rank other than McCaffrey at number one? Are the next four difficult? Do you feel like you have clarity on it? I feel like I have clarity for myself, but similar to the quarterbacks, I think it's like the second group of guys behind Mahomes and Jackson it's kind of I think any order for me at least after uh Barkley at two I think those two guys should be one and two McCaffrey one Barkley two and then the other three can kind of be you know depending on who your personal preference is I think Kamara is going to have a monster monster season

so the only thing I I kind of struggle with is in PPR maybe moving Kamara even ahead of Barkley. He's three for me in PPR. Dave, same question to you. As far as... I'm not going to say what the question was. I'm going to make you...

Is it easy for you to rank these guys? No, it was not. Especially Saquon versus Zeke. I think they're really, really close. So how do you rank? Especially in PPR. Zeke's second for me. I'm going to take him ahead of Saquon Barkley.

And it makes me a little nervous because Saquon is definitely younger and he catches a lot of passes. But Zeke has been pretty damn consistent for fantasy football. It's an easier case in non-PPR, but I've said it before on the podcast. I'd rather have the running back that plays the Giants twice a year than the running back that plays the Cowboys twice a year.

Better be careful what you wish for. Giants run defense is good. Giants run defense might be better. I think it is better. I think it's the only thing better about the Giants. Sorry, what did you say, Dave? Or it might be complete trash. Their run defense? Yeah.

I don't see how it would be. I think it's the only thing that's good on the Giants on paper. Well, Barkley's good too. Only thing better about the Giants than the Cowboys probably is their run defense. How about you, Ben? Same question to you. Yeah, my results are different, but I feel like I have a lot of clarity too.

So Jamie said he feels confident about Barkley at two, and Dave sees Zeke up around Barkley. I see Zeke in a tier behind Barkley and Kamara, who are in a tier behind McAfee for me and and I like Kamara that much because his profile is so similar to McAfee's in terms of the receptions and the the touchdown scoring potential the high value touches the green zone touches that I'm always talking about uh he only had six scores last, and it was really wild because the two years before that, he and Mark Ingram combined for 25 touchdowns each season. And Kamara had like 18 and 13.

And I know I've brought this up before, and he said, well, we would have expected a regression from that. I'm not sure if we would have because of how much their team scores running back touchdowns. I would have assumed that camara could not score six touchdowns frankly the him and murray combined for 12 last year you had the 25 those two years even before camara you had 20 um 24 the year before the saints backs combined four and then you had at least 18 the three years before that in 2014 2015 2016 um so you can go back like five six years before last year and the saints back scored at least 18 plus touchdowns and in more recent years it was more in 2014, 2015, 2016. So you can go back like five, six years before last year, and the Saints back scored at least 18-plus touchdowns.

In more recent years, it was more like 24, 25 every season. Now, Taysom Hill scored seven TDs last year, and that's a big part of it. But six of those were receiving TDs on only 19 catches. I don't think he does that again. And even if he does have like four or five touchdowns again, I think Kamara's TDs are going to rebound in a big way. The combination of him and Latavius Murray's TDs are going to rebound in a big way the combination of him and latavius murray's tvs are going to rebound in a big way and i got bad news for you though what's that there's no fans the saints are not going to be good i've heard that theory i didn't say that yeah they can only play uh because yeah i mean they got those

big home road splits wait let me let me be clear i think what we heard from the running backs coach is so true. He did not look the same playing through those injuries last year. Kamara did not. Yeah. So I'm with you. I would, I would take him over as he can PPR.

Yeah. I mean, that's the big part of this for sure is the injuries. He had a high ankle sprain. The running back coach also mentioned a back. He called it an ankle knee back, but I think the ankle and knee were related, but yeah,

Kamara's talked about this off season. He said he was 75% for most of last year, and the running back coach, he noted his quote was, Kamara's 75% is better than a lot of guys 100%. So he's a competitor. He was going out there and playing. But his explosiveness wasn't there. His yards per catch especially were way down. His receiving yardage was way down, but he caught 81 balls

for the third straight year. I think this guy has 100 catch potential plus way more touchdown potential. So he's my perfect kind of fancy man. Yep. And I just want to clarify, I don't think they're going to be bad without fans necessarily. I just think the Saints are going to go 0-8 at home this year. So let's set the record straight already. A couple of things I want to promote.

Actually, four things I want to promote. Number one, it's Tuesday as you're hearing this. We're recording this on Monday late afternoon. But Tuesday, that means tonight, Tuesday night, 7 p.m. Eastern on Twitch. Twitch.com slash FF today. I will take these guys to poker school. We're playing poker hosted by our friends at Faded Spade. Faded Spade Card Club is a new social poker platform offering free play and custom games.

And you can watch us, Twitch.com slash FF today. And not just that, you ask us fantasy questions. We'll talk football with you throughout the show. Did you get a babysitter this week so I can actually beat you at the final table? Don't need one. Don't need one. I'll be done with you in an hour.

Oh, God. We got a mailbag on Friday. This is our third tournament now? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Hopefully I can finish in the top three. Dave, I'm betting on you again.

Yeah. I don't know why you would do that. I've been getting the worst cards. I don't even know what an ace looks like anymore. Adam cheats, so I can't bet on him. He's not here, so I won't bet on him. Next time you guys do it, if I'm not around again,

I'll bet on Ben. So I'm going to stick with Dave. They don't call me pocket aces for nothing by the way. Because you cheat. Mailbag on Friday. Send in your questions. Apple Podcast Review and email. The First Cut podcast. Golf podcast crushing it these days. Travelers Championship.

They got two preview podcasts every week covering daily fantasy, storylines to watch, sleepers, best bets, and picks to win. You got your sports line data wizard, Rick Gammon. I don't know how to pronounce his name. He hit on Daniel Berger at 66 to 1. That's all you need to know.

It doesn't matter how you pronounce his name. He's an awesome expert. So check out the First Cut podcast. And Ben Schrager is not here this week. He has a homework assignment. He didn't know who Chris Farley was. He's never seen Tommy Boy. I don't know if Tommy Boy holds up.

I think it does. His homework assignment is to watch Tommy Boy and report back. So next week you'll find out if Tommy Boy is still funny to someone who didn't grow up watching it. I have faith. It's an amazing movie. Let's fill in the blank. We might have to call a few of these the other than movie. Let's fill in the blank. We might have to call this, a few of these, the other than Christian McCaffrey fill in the blank.

But the top five running back with the most upside is blank, other than Christian McCaffrey. Tomorrow. Yeah, I think it's Camara. Yeah. Yeah. Now, let me just say, I say this about Kamara every time we talk about him, I think. He's probably...

Okay, hold on. Let me say something and then let me put a little amendment on it. He's probably going to have the fewest total yards of these five running backs. That has been the case with him. However, there is a chance that he gets more touches than we've ever seen because four games without Mark Ingram in 2018, he got a ton of touches. And then really before his injury last year, he was on pace for over 300 touches, something like 220 carries,

which would be just amazing for him. But I just have to point it out. He lags in total yards. And I always find it interesting that so many in the fantasy industry, we don't love touchdown dependency. And we saw what happens with Kamara when he didn't get the touchdowns last year. He was disappointing. And yet, everybody seems to be willing to push that aside. He might have 300 fewer total yards than Saquon Barrett.

Saquon or Zeke or certainly McCaffrey. Right, right, right. But his floor might be 30 catches higher. He's caught 80 passes three straight years. And a lot of these guys, you know, Zeke, I think, had 54 catches last year. So, part of those, I mean, in PPR particularly, the receptions just can wipe away that total yardage concern. That's another big part of Kamara.

We talked about the cliff notes just a minute ago, but he started to get a bigger workload and hasn't really realized that yet because he hasn't stayed healthy enough. Latavius Murray is now 30. They haven't really brought anyone else in. They brought in someone else, a pass catcher who did they just bring in recently can't remember washington right no they still have no it's ty montgomery the receiver yeah ty montgomery that's right uh but still i think camara is going to play as much

as he can essentially this year um and he's never had 200 rushes you just kind of noted that adam he's never had 900 rushing yards because you know he was a rookie at first and was for the first part of his rookie year he was the third back behind adrian peterson as well and then 2018 alongside ingram but played a lot more when ingram was out and then last year he was hurt but he's never really gotten that chance now as the guy without ingram there uh his splits, his snapshots were a lot higher with Murray than they had been with Ingram. So I do think if he's healthy for 16 games,

we're going to see over 200 carries for the first time, and we're probably going to see him, like I said, push 100 catches and really get more touches than he's ever gotten. I would have meant my answer for who's got the most upside based on scoring. PPR, I think it's Kamara, but if it's non-PPR, I'm going to go with Zeke. Sure.

Just because of the catches. If he was healthy last year, I think it's Kamara, but if it's non-PPR, I'm going to go with Zeke. Just because of the catches. If he was healthy last year, I think he gets 100 catches. Yeah. First five games before he left week six with an ankle injury, Kamara, he was on pace for 323 touches,

1,865 total yards, and 83 catches. So that would be great if they can give him that work. It's not even like a massive workload. It's just comparable to the other guys. Okay.

Can he get 200 plus carries? That's the question. Yeah. One thing I just want to also say that I love about him, the guy played through a high ankle sprain and was still productive. He was RB9

because he catches so many passes. His explosiveness was gone, but A, he's tough, and B, he's going to get the types of stats that still count for you. I mean, I kind of just love that. It's like a little bit less of a risk to me. He's been steady around 12 to 13 rush attempts per game over the last two seasons. Again, the 16-game question, if he averages 13 carries a game, 13 times 16,

that's a lot of carries. If you're looking at last year, his best season obviously was two years ago. His points per game would have been second best behind McCaffrey. And he would have been the only guy over 20. Second guy, only guy over 20 besides McCaffrey. And he would have been the only guy over 20. Second only guy over 20 besides McCaffrey. 20 PPR points per game.

You're saying Camara's 2018? Yes. Yeah, but what about Barkley's 2018? That was over 20, wasn't it? PPR points per game? Yeah, that's right. I think Barkley's got a higher ceiling based on his rushing potential

plus what he should be able to do as a pass catcher. Heath has talked about this a lot, which is certainly understandable that with Daniel Jones and his rushing potential plus what he should be able to do as a pass catcher. Heath has talked about this a lot, which is certainly understandable that with Daniel Jones and his rushing ability comparatively to what Eli Manning is going to be as a statue, that the receptions may come down a little bit. But I still think if you're talking in what Barkley does as a total running back compared to Kamara and what Barkley should do as a receiver compared to Zeke, I think for me, that's why Barkley's too.

I think Ben said it best. McCaffrey's in his own tier. I think Barkley and Kamara are in their own tier. And then Zeke is in a slight tier behind them. So they're all amazing. And Cook as well. They're all amazing. But I think it's almost like, you know,

half a step down to each one. Okay. I just want to confirm one thing here. 2018 was the best season for both Barkley and Kamara. Yeah. Barkley was a little bit better per game. 24.06 to 23.53. And believe it or not, that year, Todd Gurley was the best running back per game. 26.57 fantasy points per game.

McCaffrey was second. Okay. Let's go to our next fill in the blank. running back per game, 26.57 fantasy points per game. McCaffrey was second. Okay, let's go to our next fill in the blank. The top five running back with the least upside is blank. Dalvin Cook. Yep. I'm going to say the least upside. Ooh.

It's either Cook or Zeke. Yeah. Okay. The top five running back with the highest floor is blank. And please include McCaffrey. Oh, McCaffrey. McCaffrey. Okay.

Now excluding him. I think it's Camara. Cause the catches. I'll say Zeke. I'll take Barkley. Make a quick case. So it's the catches for Cam the catches. I'll say Zeke. I'll take Barkley. Make a quick case. So it's the catches for Camara. What is it for Zeke, Dave?

It's workload, great offense, safeties will never, ever crowd the box, used in the passing game, incredibly consistent for fantasy. I didn't even bring up the schedule yet. I'm saving that for later in the podcast. All right. And Jamie, your case for Barkley with the highest floor.

I just think what he does rushing and catching the ball. The fact, I mean, you know, again, you want to talk about playing through injury. We don't know exactly when he was healthy, but if he was healthy at the end of the season,

that guy was impressive. The final three games of the year with Daniel Jones. So his 2018 season, he was drafted number one last year for what he should have been able to do. He didn't live up to those expectations. But I think this is very similar to Todd Gurley, what happened to him. Great rookie season. Obviously, Barkley was better.

Struggled as a sophomore. That was, I think, more a byproduct of the offense for Gurley than injury like it was for Barkley. And then he came back his third season with a new coach and a better quarterback. And things really took off for Gurley from that point forward. I think that's what we're going to see from Barkley. And then he came back his third season with a new coach and a better quarterback and things really took off for Gurley from that point forward. I think that's what we're going to see from Barkley. Different scenarios, but just year

one, year two, year three, that type of explosion I think is coming for Barkley. Okay. And in the top five... I think if you just talk about best running back, forget about fantasy, Barkley's the best running back in football. Yes. I agree with that completely too. Adam, you're about to ask with who the lowest floor

is and i'm going to say barkley because of his offense and i'm still like the way that we're phrasing these questions like i think he actually has a low floor but i'm still drafting him second because he's that good like what jamie just said like he's the best running back in football he's such an athlete uh he's so talented in all phases. He has the... Isaac Kamara has the next highest ceiling behind McCaffrey, but it might be Barkley because Barkley could do something that we've never seen before.

He's just that good of an athlete. Lowest floor is... Top five running back with the lowest floor. Go ahead. McCaffrey. Oh, no. The lowest floor. Go ahead. McCaffrey. Oh, no, no, no. The lowest floor. Biggest bust potential.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, Cook has the lowest floor. Ben, you said Barkley. I think it's Barkley. I mean, assuming health and no holdouts and stuff. I think Barkley, just because of his offense, could have a low touchdown season and et cetera. And I think that the catches are really interesting with him because he was on pace for like 52 catches or something

in the last five or six games, and that's when basically everyone was healthy. So all the wide receivers. I'm guessing he gets around 62 catches. That's basically what he's been on pace for since the second half of his rookie season yeah about 4 per game but the last 6 games of the year he was on pace for 51 catches

Golden Tate played in 5 of those games Sterling Shepard and Darius Slayton played in all 6 of those games Evan Ingram didn't play but Caden Smith had 41 targets in those 6 games that's a pace of 109 per 16 games so you know it's a little bit of a concern. Maybe all these guys in the passing game,

maybe Barkley, like, honestly, he might have the fewest catches of this group of five. I mean, obviously... I would actually put him third. In catches? Yeah, I would say it's a clear one and two with McCaffrey and Kamara. And then I would say Barkley's three.

The other two are probably interchangeable, but I would say probably Cook over Elliott right now. And they were one catch difference last year with Cook missing time. If Cook's playing 16 games, he'll have more catches than Zeke. Right, but I think your 65 range is probably correct for Barkley. Okay. So we'll get into it a little bit more. Dave wants to talk about the schedule.

I guess we have to pick these guys apart. We haven't talked that much about Dalvin Cook, I guess. He was so, so good at the start of the year last year. And is he last for everybody, by the way? Is he fifth, Dalvin Cook? Mm-hmm. Yep. So that's kind of interesting.

We'll find out why. We'll take a quick break here. Also, your email is later in the show at fantasyfootball? Mm-hmm. Yep. So that's kind of interesting. We'll find out why. We'll take a quick break here. Also, your email's later in the show at fantasyfootballatcbsi.com. We'll be right back. Kick off an exciting football season with BetMGM, an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. Yard after yard, down after down, the sportsbook born in Vegas gives you the chance to take action to the end zone

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Insurance designed for life. Welcome back to Fantasy Football today. How far ahead of the rest of the group is Christian McCaffrey in your minds? I wouldn't consider anybody else at number one. Can't do it. Not after the last two seasons. I think I asked you this last week, but you've got a $200 auction budget. How much for McCaffrey? How much for the next guy? McCaffrey's probably worth $70.

Yep. $70, $65 for Barkley. A little close to that, yeah. It's just interesting that Barkley went ahead of McCaffrey last year in a lot of drafts. And I guess what has changed? You know, why is McCaffrey...

I'm asking an obvious question, but let's just talk about it. Why is McCaffrey obviously ahead of everybody else? He's coming off this great year, I know, but it wasn't the case a year ago. So why is it different in your mind? Well, I mean, he just went 1,000 to 1,000, and he had 116 catches. So it's hard to overlook what he should be able to do again. He's still young. The offense, I think, is going to be still catered to him,

especially with the quarterback situation being what it is. He's going to be so involved as a pass catcher in Joe Brady's system. So I think, you know, to expect 2,000 total yards, probably not realistic, but 1,800 total yards and, you know, north of 90 catches. Okay. I think he's got the ability to do it all. As he told us on CBS Sports HQ at the Super Bowl,

he's an offensive weapon. He is the true definition of that. Can you say that about any other running back? The 2,000 total yard potential, the 90 catches? Oh, the numbers? No. I mean, Barkley maybe is. 2018 Barkley, yes. But this mean, Barkley, 2018 Barkley, yes, but this version of Barkley, as Ben said, in this offense, probably not.

But, you know, I think if he stays healthy, you're getting probably 1,800 total yards. I feel like, okay, Barkley had a 2,000 total yard season, right? Yes, rookie year.

Zeke did the same, I'm pretty sure, in his rookie year. Zeke's rookie year, he had 1,994. He had 2,001 total yards in 2018. Yeah, so he's been around 2,000 total yards, or at least on pace for that in three of his four seasons. He had over 2,000 total yards in 15 games. And the 1,994 total yards was also in 15 games. And then that was with that huge spike in receptions for him.

And it's hard to expect him to be over, you know, 2016, not in 20 and on 2017, either. He only played 10 games. He got so many receivers that they have now, but he didn't have the catches those other years.

I mean, he's the 2016, their offensive line was insane. I mean, that's why Yeah, well, 2016, their offensive line was insane. I mean, that's why people, again, we've talked about this. They were drafting him in the first round, and for good reason. Their sixth best lineman was a starter on probably 31 other teams. And the loss of Frederick could be big? Could be big. Could be big.

They still have a really good offensive line, though. Great offensive line. I think only the Saints could challenge him there as far as a team with a better offensive line among these running backs. This is the first time in years I've looked at another offensive line and said, oh, they could be better than the Cowboys. Well, I'm thinking that too.

I mean, I've been thinking about the Colts maybe. I mean, the Cowboys are a little bit different. You like John the Taylor, Ben? Have you heard about that? No, I haven't. But the Cowboys still have a very good line and Zeke will still be good I'm just a little bit concerned about um just a general you know usage like he's been been used a lot and it's it's an overreaction I'm still drafting him in the top five running backs I'm

not pushing him um out of the first round or anything crazy uh but I am moving him down a little bit because he's been used a ton for four straight years. And I am worried about his receiving more than some of these other guys. So how about you all have McCaffrey one and cook five, fight it out. Two, three, four Dave,

I'll let you start. You go Zeke Barkley Camara. Yeah, I do. I think I look at Zeke and Barkley very similarly. I think that they're both really, really good. I think they both have the potential for 2,000 total yards. I think the catches favor Saquon,

but it might only be by 15, 20 catches when all is said and done. I go back to Zeke's reliability. His career success rate in non-PPR. The percentage of the time that he gets at least 10 points in non-PPR is 91%. It's unheard of. No one's ever that efficient. It's like hyper, crazy, mega, uber efficient with cheese. And in PPR, he's getting you to that 15-point mark 80% of the time. And maybe 80% is not enough for you. Or maybe 15 points is enough for you. Want to get to 20.

He's still getting into that mark quite a bit. Saquon's real close to that. I think it's 76% for Saquon. So they're basically even in that regard too. Is Saquon younger? Sure. Is his offense better? I don't know if it is.

I mean, we've already kind of touched on it once already on the podcast. And I think the Cowboys offense is going to be great. I think adding CeeDee Lamb just makes it even easier for Ezekiel Elliott to find rushing lanes. Working with a rushing quarterback makes it easier. And it's a better rushing quarterback than what Saquon has. Much easier for Ezekiel Elliott to rack up yards. And the schedule is where it's at for me. His first four games at the Rams versus the Falcons at Seattle versus Cleveland. Saquon's first four games are against the Steelers, at the Bears, home against the Niners, and then at the Rams. So those first three games are going to be crushing on Saquon. It's going to make it harder on him to get yardage in those games

than it will be for Zeke. Zeke will get you off to a hotter start. He's been more consistent over his career. I think he's going to end up being the better running back of the two. Not to nitpick, but Daniel Jones was a better running quarterback than Dak last year. As far as get total yardage at the end of the year? Yards and yards per carry. Yards per game, I'd say he was definitely better.

How much better was he, Jay? Well, just in total yards, he was two yards better. But as we know, he didn't start every game. Sure. But I don't know how much they're going to use daniel jones as a rusher in that offense like are they going to utilize him the same way you know oh i would imagine no one i would imagine he he is going to have to improvise in his rushing not right but are they are they doing rpos uh oh i would imagine so yeah they did they did i don't know if you remember the mond night game against the Cowboys. They did it quite a bit in that game. They might, but they got a new staff.

Don't know. I mean, obviously the tie-in is Jason Garrett. It's tough to have these debates because it is nitpicking. All right, Jamie. So anything you want to, any rebuttal? No, I think the bottom line is it's, you want to have a top six pick because I do think Michael Thomas should be somewhere in this, whether he's six or three.

And this is why you, you know, it's, you know, we get this question. Do you want to choose your own draft slot? One of the top six picks is, is almost like, you know, winning the lottery for your fantasy league because these guys are so impressive. The only concern would be at this point is Dalvin Cook's holdout. Now, you have to factor in his injury, and that's the injury history. That's the scary part about it with him.

But I do think that what he showed us last year is with Gary Kubiak and what this offensive line looked like. And, you know, if he does play 16 games, the sky's the limit. You know, we may be discounting him a little bit by what he should be able to do. I was looking at the wrong thing. I apologize. I was looking at half PPR.

In full PPR, he was over 20 fantasy points per game last year. So 234 for Dave is Zeke, Barkley, Kamara. 234 for you is what, Jamie? It's Barkley, Kamara, Zeke. Ben? Yes, same. Barkley, Kamara, Zeke. Non-PPR, I do take Zeke over Kamara.

But you still take Barkley? I still take Barkley over Zeke. Barkley's two for me regardless, yes. That will not change. Half, full, none. Barkley's two for me regardless yes that will not change half full none Ben do you think that Zeke could kind of

start to hit the back end of his career fairly quickly you know a la Todd Gurley yeah I mean I think that's a lesson we're learning and we've always kind of known about running backs but I don't want to I don't think we should overreact too much to Gurley and Le'Veon and David Johnson.

Maybe you can throw Melvin Gordon in there. I don't know. But this most recent class of guys that are hitting that 26, 27, 28-year-old range, there's definitely guys, even in the more modern NFL, but the NFL has changed a ton in the last decade, but there are guys that can do it later.rian peterson's a good example good players are good for a long time even at running back uh and zeke can very very well do that uh i think you know dave's dave's kind of brought me around on this point because we've talked about and he said you

know he's made the point basically that zeke's done this since college and he's always been very consistent with it and i think he can continue to to carry the load for a couple more seasons but I just think that at a certain point there's going to be a drop off he's going to be 25 to start this year I you know I don't know that you know at 28 29 how how productive he'll still be with these big workloads he's had early in his career and for me it's just a matter of kind of trying to time that or not trying to time that, I guess. Just trying to kind of decide that I'm going to try to find the next Zeke kind of thing. So at the same time, I recognize that he's a top five pick.

Like I said, I just don't typically get him. I'll take other guys ahead of him usually, and then I don't typically get him. But I would draft him if I was at five or four. I guess five, and the other four that I like went ahead of him. I would take Zeke. I think one thing it's worth noting, and I know we have talked on the air and off the air about this, but it's a crazy 2020. And if he did, in fact, get coronavirus, and if he is, in fact, healthy and is now asymptomatic to this or doesn't have a recurrence of this that's a big thing to

factor in too yeah i know it's a weird thing to talk about but we've been asked about it i mean look i i've heard other people talking about i think it's worth mentioning you know if this is something that's going to be part of our lives that and he's now healthy and fine and obviously that's the most important thing for what we do here. This is a, this is something to take note of, you know, because if the other players are still potentially,

you know, have the ability to contract this, um, they can miss two weeks, maybe more, maybe more. Yeah. We don't know for a fact that you can't get it twice,

but, and we don't know for a fact that he has it. It's only been reported. Right. And we don't even necessarily know for a fact that he's you know perfectly asymptomatic that could just be right i mean i you know i now i'm getting into conspiracy theories but that could just be uh you know something that's being said it is it is something to take note again you know there's going to be so much of this fantasy season that's unknown because the nfl season is unknown and because the world is unknown with what's going on. But if, in fact, you want to spin it to potentially a fantasy conversation,

that could be a positive. If you tell me. And obviously, that's more important. So, Ben, just on the record, two, three, four for you. Barkley, Camara, Zeke. Yeah, it's Saquon, Camara, Zeke. And the other one little concern I would say about Zeke is Tony Pollard's good. I just want to throw that out there.

He might get used a little bit more. I mean, I know like Zeke's always carried the mail a ton for four straight years, but Tony Pollard's good. New head coach. And Mike McCarthy may say, I want to save him for the stretch run a little bit. That's a great point to bring up. I don't think Deion Lewis does that to Barkley. In non-PBR now.

Could Latavius Murray do that to Alvin Kamara? He does it on rushing downs already. Yeah, right. In non-PBR, how many of you are taking Ezekiel Elliott over Alvin Kamara? Me. I will also. I will take Kamara. I will take Kamara I'll take Kamara

if I'm taking Zeke second in PPR I'm taking Zeke second well that I knew I figured that much out I wanted to get everybody's that's very close for me I'll say Kamara and Zeke and none last question then why is Dalvin Cook consensus fifth in this group he's holding out

even before that though I think for me it's consensus fifth in this group. He's holding out. Even before that, though, I think for me, it's the injury track record for him. I think we saw what his ceiling is, which is amazing, which is why he's in this conversation. But I just think if everybody hits their ceilings, they'll all be better than him. Dave? That's probably fair.

I don't like that there's an injury-prone player holding out, and if the holdout extends into and past training camp, I mean, we've been doing this for so long. We've seen it so many times where most of the time running backs aren't prepared when they come back.

They either have to sit out, get their bodies right for a couple weeks before coming back and even playing in a limited role. Dalvin Cook won't have a chance to return value, maybe even at sixth overall, if he's holding out that long. So what I'm hoping for is that Dalvin Cook gets a deal done, he's happy, he shows up at the start of training camp, and then we can evaluate him the way we should,

which is based on his talent and his role in, in Minnesota's offense. And I think he's going to be a huge part of it. So let me just, you know, be kind of sarcastic about this. He was on pace for 61 catches last year, Dalvin cook,

and they lost Dalvin cook and they lost Stefan digs. And what now we think his catches are going down? What's up with that? Well, I mean, they did have the greatest receiver ever, according to you and Justin Jefferson. The Saints are going to be terrible at home and Justin Jefferson is the greatest receiver ever. That's the two takeaways I have from our offseason for you.

Okay, all right. Yeah. I've been like J.J. Brown. That's what I've learned from this podcast. No, but does he pick up more of the slack in the passing game? I don't think so. I think 65 catches is probably

his ceiling, which isn't bad, but again, I don't think things dramatically change. Gary Kubiak had so much of an imprint on what this offense was a year ago that he just now gets the official title. Not that Stefanski wasn't the one calling the plays, but I mean, they brought in Kubiak for a reason last year. So, you know, Dalvin Cook's going to be awesome if he's healthy. He's going to have a big role. He's going to catch passes.

But you just have to factor in holdout and injury concern and, you know, maybe the loss of digs and no, no Jefferson ascending to the heights that you have for him, Adam. If you know maybe the loss of digs and no no jefferson ascending to the heights that you have for him adam um if you took down the green screen we know that you have the poster of him behind there um i i i think you know cook to me is the is is fifth for a reason he's still great though it's like yeah um again we're nitpicking yeah i i do think though adam is it's a good question i pretty much agree with everything jamie, but if you're going to make the case for Cook over Zika, then you've got to ask the star if they're receiving more. Okay.

All right, that's your top five running backs, wide receivers on Wednesday's show. Let's read some emails at fantasy.com. What's your ranking, Adam? What's my format, Jamie? Half PPR. All right, let's go Barkley one. Wow. No, just kidding. Just kidding. All right. Let's go Barkley 1. Wow. No, just kidding.

Just kidding. But Caffrey 1. I honestly will continue to flip-flop on Zeke and Camara and Zeke and Barkley. Zeke is 300 carries every year and

Barkley is probably not going to get that. So I'll take Barkley by a nose over Zeke because the Giants' run defense is better than the Cowboys. I'll go Zeke, Barkley, Kamara, Cook. Although I really think that if you told me just per game basis, I think Cook is probably better than Kamara in half PPR.

Not full, but half PPR. But they're all great. The question, I guess, now for everyone is, Michael Thomas, where does he slot in? Right now, he slots in ahead of Cook, just because of the holdout concerns. But if Cook is there for the start of training camp, he's uh ahead of cook just because of the holdout concerns but if cook is is there for the start of training camp he's behind cook non ppr or half ppr i would put thomas sixth ppr i

would put him fourth i've got thomas eighth and non ppr i want to put Thomas fourth too. I think purely on his own value, you can make a really good case that he should be second, but we know that it changes things when you take a receiver that high, and especially this year in drafts, the running back

third, fourth, fifth round, it starts to get kind of depressing. The idea of taking a receiver over a surefire running back gets a little bit tricky for sure. Yeah. By the way, we have a question about that sort of running back depth and that danger zone. We'll get to that in a moment. First question is from Mitch. Where's he from, Dave? Chicago, Illinois.

Dynasty trade, mind blown Chicago, Illinois. Dynasty trade mind blown in all caps. That is the subject line. Oh, sorry. Mitch is from a small town east of Cincinnati. Sorry, Dave. My bad. Give up Jameis Winston. Receive Daniel Jones. I've talked to loads

of people. It's about 50-50 response. Can you lads break the tie? I'm pretty stuck giving up jamis winston for daniel jones and dynasty how was this a 50 50 time i don't know what am i missing here i think the only thing would be is if you were guaranteed to know that jamis winston is the heir apparent to drew breeze so if that's the case then it's close but otherwise you have to take daniel jones i mean he's not even starting this year. You're right. If that's the case, it would still only be close.

It matters that he's not starting this year and you're going to have to hold him. But also, he signed a $2 million deal. One of the worst QB deals we've seen in free agency. Hold on. There are incentives. Okay. If he's the starter

for the Saints for the next five years, let's just say. Three years. Next three years. Who's better? Including the year that he sits. So 2021 through 24. Or 2021 through 23. I'd take Winston in that scenario.

So it's close. It's got to be that scenario he's got to impress the saints so much this year as a backup that they give him a long-term deal after this year well i mean it seems as if based on you know sean payton's slipping a few times that this is breezes last season then if he does walk away is he really going to turn the franchise over to what taste will be 32 at that point right oh no i don't know if tasem is gonna well he keeps saying it yeah they're acting like it payton has made no no uh no secret how much he likes tasem hill but jamis makes a ton of sense to be the heir apparent because he's younger he's got a 5 000 yard season on his resume i mean he

was a former number one overall pick. If that's the case, if that's the case that he's the guy with Michael Thomas and Sean Payton, you'd love to have that. Daniel Jones could be better right now for a longer period of time.

For a longer period of time. You're going to take Jameis Winston for two years instead of Daniel Jones for three years? With one of those years being No, it's three versus four. Oh, that's good. And I'm not talking about

raw total points. I'm just saying like who would you rather have? I'd rather have I would think Winston would be better and I'm not that confident that Jones is going to be

like a difference maker. And so, yeah, I would rather have that guy for three years. That's pretty good. Right. So I guess the question becomes if you're not starting either guy this year, is it worth the investment of holding on to Jameis? I would rather have that guy for three years. That's pretty good. Right. So I guess the question becomes, if you're not starting either guy this year,

is it worth the investment of holding on to James? I would probably still take Daniel Jones just because of the uncertainty. But if you're guaranteed to know, like if Sean Payton were to call you and say, what's his name? Mitch. Mitch. If Sean Payton called Mitch and said,

listen, Mitch, in your dynasty league, you know how much I love fantasy. I've talked about it. I tweeted about it. I love fantasy football. I'm reaching out to you because you had this question. I was listening to Adam Azer and his voice just soothes me as I go to sleep. Yeah, well, I lost him today with the 0-8 thing.

So sorry, Sean. That's right. I listened to Adam Azer because he thinks we need fans to be successful. He motivates me. So here, Mitch, I'm going to tell you right now. Jameis is our guy next year. Hold on to him. Then that's the scenario you hold on to.

I can't believe this question took 11 minutes of our lives. Let's go. I have Jameis in our dynasty league that we share, Adam, and I'm holding on to him just to see. But I don't have Daniel Jones. If I had a choice between Daniel Jones and Jameis. If someone came to you with Daniel Jones and offered him straight up to James, you'd fall over yourself to that trade.

What's a famous bakery? Think of a famous bakery. Nothing but cake. Nothing but cake. Daniel Jones and James Winston, these guys got more turnovers than nothing but cake. It's bunt cake. Nothing but cake. Oh, nothing but cake. It's bunt cake. Nothing bunt cake.

Oh, nothing bunt cake. Sorry. A lot of turnovers there. A lot of turnovers. Please, both of you, destroy him in poker. I've been waiting 11 minutes to make that joke.

This is from Tom. Dear Catch, Match, Batch, and Gretch, in my Pbr keeper league love it i'm planning on going into next season with what i consider three elite wide receivers and an elite tight end michael thomas julio jones chris gobwin and george kittle that means yeah that means i'm in a big need for running backs. But when I project my options, I'm really uninspired. Melvin Gordon, Leonard Fournette, maybe Jonathan Taylor Thomas. I love that he put JTT.

Maybe Jonathan Taylor. The wide receiver options will likely be DJ Moore, Calvin Ridley, and Robert Woods. We only start two wide receivers in a flex, so any more wide receivers would not be starters for me. This has led me to consider keeping Josh Jacobs over Julio Jones, and that's madness. Please forgive me, Julio. But I think even in redraft leagues, people have to consider taking good RBs over elite wide receivers as early as late round one, purely because of the drop-off in good running backs. How do you guys feel? Well, we were just... What's the format? PPR?

PPR. We were just in What's the format? PPR? PPR. We were just in a draft that's half PPR that I believe Chris Harris of Harris Football took Josh Jacobs over Julio Jones. Okay, but the full PPR... And you can add Julio to that stockpile as unlikely as it might be that you get him back.

Just to have one stud running back that you might be able to keep for a long time i don't hate it i really don't what number is he picking i don't know but i think i think it's the right i think it's the right move guys because you're right dave like he could get supply and demand dj moore calvin ridley robert woods or melvin gordon leonard furnett jonathan taylor so you keep the running back and you get a better wide yeah i think well ben what would you rather have would you rather have josh jacobs and i'm not gonna give you dj more because you love him too much or calvin ridley

would you rather have josh jacobs and robert woods or julio jones and melvin gordon i'd rather have jacobs and and woods and i i was just gonna to say, like, I don't think – I think the point – the question is a good question. The specific one I don't think is as – I think we kind of all agree as much madness as the listener thinks because I think you can just take Josh Jacobs over Julio. I mean, especially in the keeper. I think that's fine. Okay.

Last question. This is from Aaron from the submarine capital of the world. Probably would be Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Maybe. Yeah. Hey, Gordie, Al, Barry, and Isaiah. I know it. Gordie, Al, Isaiah, Thomas.

Yep. Yep. Keep going. Detroit. Barry Sanders. Detroit. Barry Sanders. And Al, K-Line. Detroit. Barry Sanders. And Al Kaline.

I'm in a half PPR 12-team Dynasty League. So would the submarine capital of America be Detroit? It seems like it might be, yeah. I thought you were talking about sandwiches. Me too. Give up. Devante Adams, Deebo Samuel, and Devin Singletary.

Get Saquon Barkley, Carson Wentz, and a 2021 second rounder. Adams, Debo, and Singletary for Barkley, Wentz, and 2021 second rounder. Yes? Yep. Okay. Any deal where you're getting Saquon Barkley is usually a good deal. Well, that's going to conclude our running back show. Thanks a lot to mostly ben thanks ben

this is your show you nailed it man hey i appreciate it just do my best see you tonight at the poker table everybody twitch.com slash ff today talk to you tomorrow with a wide receiver episode i don't even know who the consensus top five is at wide receiver i'm looking forward to figuring that out and we'll have i feel we're going to be talking about DeAndre Hopkins quite a bit. Did he make the consensus top five? I'm not even sure. Some of people's top five. He might not.

Yeah. Okay. Behind DJ more for me. So, okay. It's going to be Michael Thomas, Devante Adams, Tyree kill Julio Jones,

who is going to be number five. Got it. Probably going to be Godwin. Find out. Thanks for listening, everybody. I'm Adam with Dave with Jamie with Ben. Talk to you tomorrow.