Fantasy Football Today - Year Two and Three Tight Ends; NFL Combine Reactions (05/04 Fantasy Football Podcast)

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

Fantasy Football Today is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts We might see three Year 2/3 tight ends among the first five selected at the position. Sam LaPorta, Trey McBride and Dalton Kincaid are certainly exciting heading into 2024. We start with some Fill in the Blank (1:50) about why each of them could be the #1 TE in Fantasy this season. Plus, a sleeper, breakout and bust (11:15) among the Year 2/3 TEs ... News and notes (14:30) as Mike Evans is staying with the Bucs, Alexander Mattison is getting released and Darren Waller is considering retirement. Then it's back to the Year 2/3 TEs (23:00) as we talk more about the elite options and Isaiah Likely, discuss the upside of Jake Ferguson (28:35), compare Luke Musgrave and Michael Mayer (31:00), recognize Chig Okonkwo's potential (33:35) and more ... Our thoughts on the NFL Combine (38:40) including the wide receiver standouts. What do we make of the outstanding numbers these players were posting? ... Email us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-football-today-dynasty/id1696679179 SUBSCRIBE to FFT Dynasty on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aHlmMJw1m8FareKybdNfG?si=8487e2f9611b4438&nd=1 Follow our FFT team on Twitter: @FFToday, @AdamAizer, @JameyEisenberg, @daverichard, @heathcummingssr, @ctowerscbs Follow the brand new FFT TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@fftoday Watch FFT on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/fantasyfootballtoday Get 20% off Fantasy Football Today merch: https://store.cbssports.com/collections/fantasy-football-today%20?utm_source=podcast-apple-com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=buy-our-merch&utm_content=fantasy-football-collection Join our Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/FantasyFootballToday/ Sign up for the FFT newsletter https://www.cbssports.com/newsletter You can listen to Fantasy Football Today on your smart speakers! Simply say "Alexa, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast" or "Hey Google, play the latest episode of the Fantasy Football Today podcast." To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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No, I can't. It's time to dominate your fantasy league. Off to the races, and he stays on his feet. He's just going to go the distance. Now, here's some combination of Adam, Dave, Jamie, and Heath. We've got an exciting group of young tight ends. In fact, a year two tight end is maybe going to be the first one off the board. Sam Laporta, of course, he was a third-round pick in our most recent 12-team league.

Trey McBride was a fifth-round pick. Dalton Kincaid was the last pick of round seven. That's pretty late. To Dave Richard, who will be joining us in a little bit. Jake Ferguson is on this list as well. Chigo Conquo. Luke Musgrave. Not just, you know, you do rookie, or second

year quarterback, second year running back, second year wide receivers. We got to throw in the third year tight ends as well, but Isaiah Likely, I got some good stats on him, and good morning to Jamie and Heath. Hello, Jamie. How we doing? I'm doing great. How about yourself, Adam? Doing very well. Very nicely.

Thank you. I like it. It's a little out of place here. There we go. Now it's back in place. I feel good. Heath, it looks like you got a haircut. You're wearing a hat, but I still think you got a haircut. You're very observant. 100% correct. I cut it all off again. No, I actually thought when I saw the list of names you sent, can we add the fourth-year tight ends also, please? Like fifth-year tight ends too? Maybe the sixth year? Kyle Pitts. This is his year. tight ends also, please. Like fifth-year tight ends, too? Maybe the sixth year? You know, I think it's an interesting group, right? I mean, you got Laporta and McBride and Kincaid,

who are, what, top five in ADP next year? Yeah, I feel like there should be a pause in between Laporta and McBride and Kincaid. All right, well, why don't we do fill in the blank? Let's do some fill in the blank. Dave's joining us later. He's on HQ right now talking about Mike Evans, who's going to sign a two-year, $54 million deal.

He was the top seven wide receiver in all formats overall. Not quite per game, but obviously had a great year. We'll talk about Mike Evans. Alexander Madison's going to get released. Darren Waller is considering retirement. So we'll get to all of that. But let's do some fill in the blank for the time. Oh, and we'll talk about the NFL combine.

Yeah. Sam Laporta will be better than Trey McBride because blank Jamie. Touchdowns. Heath. Because Arizona drafts Marvin Harrison. Okay. Trey McBride will be better than Sam Laporta because blank Jamie. because Arizona drafts Marvin Harrison. Okay. Trey McBride will be better than Sam Laporta because blank, Jamie.

Touchdowns. No. There could very well be a difference between the two of them, yeah. Okay. I mean, I do think that even if the Cardinals, they're obviously adding to the receiving core, whether it's Marvin Harrison, another rookie.

I would not be surprised if they trade out of four because of teams wanting to move up to get a quarterback. And the Cardinals still being able to get one of the top tier wide receivers, depending on how far they go. But this receiving core is definitely not staying the same. I mean, it's just Marquise Brown most likely is not coming back. And they need to upgrade that position significantly. So McBride's going to get competition. But in the event that it's not a superstar, he has the ability to have more catches, more receiving yards, and if the touchdowns are close, he'll be better. Heath, is that kind of how you feel?

No, no. My answer was because Amari Cooper didn't impact the tight end bucket in Cleveland, so Marvin Harrison's not going to impact the tight end bucket in Arizona in the same offense. So there will be a wide receiver there seeing a 25% target share, but there will still be 25% of the targets going to a tight end. Okay, and let's just take a look at some numbers here if you just want to use McBride with Kyler Murray.

His 17-game pace, Trey McBride, was 113 catches, 1,143 yards, and four touchdowns. Only four touchdowns on 140 targets. If we just look at Laporta in those eight games, which I think was pretty similar to what he did for the season, you're talking about McBride was on pace for 25 more targets, 32 more catches, and 284 more yards, but seven fewer touchdowns. Well, the thing that I like about McBride is you just look at the numbers that he put up with both quarterbacks, or three quarterbacks, I guess, during the time that he took over for Zach Ertz.

In points per game, he was the number one tight end for last year. So if someone took him ahead of Laporta, would you criticize the pick or be like, that's fine? No, I have him projected ahead of Laporta. No, I do think that with Kelsey and the age concerns that we have to factor in with him, that these are my top three tight ends, those two and Kelsey. I think, you know, and even if you don't want to throw Mark Andrews in there,

I think all four of those guys, you can make the case for the number one tight end spot. You're right. We'll take over there. So, Heath, you have McBride projected for more fantasy points on the portal. How does the first year versus second year, because we're comparing their numbers from last year, and I just made a case to take McBride, and Jamie just made a case to take McBride over Laporta,

but McBride did that in his second year. Laporta had the best rookie fantasy tight end season that we've seen ever. And I think that's, it's going to be an important discussion with CJ Stroud also. When you've got a position, or even just rookies as a whole, I think it's going to be an important discussion with C.J. Stroud also. When you've got a position or even just rookies as a whole who tend to struggle a little bit as rookies

and then be better in their second year, that doesn't mean if a guy's awesome as a rookie, he's going to be better his second year. I think we've seen a lot of tight ends or quarterbacks or running backs who had surprisingly good rookie years who don't make an improvement in year two. So I would not really like, I think it matters for dynasty purposes, but for next year's projections, I'm not projecting Sam Laporta to take another step forward next year. And I think one thing that's interesting with Detroit, for example, you know, we're talking

about wide receivers going to Arizona. You know, you look at some of the draft needs coming out of the Lions media and they keep saying wide receiver. You know, I think maybe just because the loss of Josh Reynolds and not putting maybe Jamison Williams into that featured role that I think we're hoping he's going to get. But if they add somebody of significance at that position with Amara St. Brown, with Jamison Williams getting better, with what the running backs do by the backfield, that's a potential problem for Laporta to get better. I don't know if he's going to regress significantly, but to get better, that's tough. Yeah, one area where I think Laporta could get,

they might scoff at this, and I don't think it will happen, but let me just throw it out there. One area where he could get better is touchdowns. And he led the position at touchdowns. But just consider the fact that in the last two seasons, the Lions have had 23 and 27 rushing touchdowns. If they just throw the ball a little bit more and golf instead of 29 and 30 touchdowns

has a 35 touchdown season, maybe that would be... They throw the ball a lot because they run a lot of plays and they score a lot of plays and they score a lot of points, but on a percentage basis, they are very run heavy. But if they would, you know, stop giving the ball to Montgomery and Gibbs to lesser,

if they just throw the ball more near the goal line and they get there a lot, you know, maybe I just, that would change things. Even so, I think it's unlikely to say that Laporta has more room to improve in terms of touchdowns than McBride does. Oh, right. No. Yeah, for sure. All right, next fill in the blank. Dahl to Kincaid will be better than both of them because blank. He has the best quarterback.

They get hurt. Is it really that much of a stretch? No, I mean, it could happen, but I think that's the mic. I think it's really unlikely. If you're asking me,

why is he better than both of them? That would be my why. I would say it's unlikely also, but you know, you're looking at a situation where, and, and Adam, I don't know if you guys are set at this one or not,

but you know, the, just the games that he played without Dawson Knox and without Gabe Davis, what is points per game were, I have it without Knox. Um, but Knox is still going to be there, right?

Yeah. But it, it, the way it worked last year. And, and again, it's, it's a small sample size,

but when somebody was missing, so whether it was Knox or Davis, cause Davis was week 18 and the playoffs, you know, his numbers popped. And so to what extent? It's easier to point to when Knox wasn't there because they play the same position, but just when someone was absent. So how did they replace Gabe Davis? Who did they replace Gabe Davis with, really?

And does Kincaid, who by pedigree was the best of this group, does he have the highest upside? And you can make a case that he does. Well, so I don't have points per game, but I have the 17-game paces. Five games without Dawson. I mean, the weird thing about it, Jamie, is Dawson Knox wasn't really getting a lot of targets. And Gabe Davis, by the end of the season,

was mostly getting one to two targets. But you're right. He did a lot better. Five games without Dawson Knox. He was on pace for 105 catches, 955 yards and seven touchdowns on 126 targets. That's very good. More touchdowns than McBride, not as many yards. And then in the last, so I will tell you that he led the team in receiving in three of their last four games, including the postseason. And Gabe Davis played in only one of those games. So it was good.

But also during that time, Josh Allen was not really doing much as a passer. He was throwing for about 210 yards per game, 211.6 yards per game, throwing about 30 times per game. Wasn't a great environment for Kincaid. But it's weird for me to say, oh, when Gabe Davis wasn't there, because Gabe Davis was invisible almost every week during that stretch. But you're not wrong. But I think it's, you know,

without watching the games and giving you exact examples of this, I would imagine he's running a little bit different routes. And, you know, some of the combinations of personnel probably favored him a little bit more. I'm not sure.

Yeah, I think it's not that hard of a case to make if, you know, he takes a step up, gets more targets. He's as talented as those guys, if not more, right? I mean, someone just mentioned the pedigree, Kincaid. He's tight end five for me, and I would have no problem if that's the one I have to wait for if I want one of the top five tight ends. Yeah, he's in that group that I'm okay if he's my starter, but I don't want to draft him within a round or two of McBride or Laporta. All right, so Jamie said that Kinkades is tight end five.

Where is he for you, Heath? Seven. If Laporta is a round three pick, McBride is a round four pick, at what point, Jamie, does Kincaid become the best value? Round what? So if all those top four guys are gone by what round? Four. Round four?

See, that would be a little bit too soon for me to even say those like i don't know if i'd want mark andrews around four at this point um probably round six i'll say two round difference i was gonna say seven okay i will do these three real quick here my favorite sleeper tight end is blank michael mayer Michael Mayer. That was going to be my answer. I'll say... I'll go K. Dodden. Okay, and this is just so everybody knows, reminder, just for year two, year three,

my favorite breakout tight end is blank. It will be Dalton Kincaid, but I'll say Luke Musgrave to be different. Yeah, I mean, I think Dalton Kincaid's the only really good answer. I don't really project that much of an outbreak for him or breakout for him, so I guess I think Dalton Kincaid's the only really good answer I don't really project that much of an outbreak for him or breakout for him so I guess I would have nobody but Kincaid would be the best answer blank will be a bust I mean it's got to be Laporta or McBride right because

of where they're going to get drafted especially if both go ahead of Kelsey and Kelsey is still good. That's an easy choice. Yeah. I don't, I don't see a bust. I'll say this in case we get some reports. This is, this is a little bit of a stretch, but we get reports of the Ravens are now going to two tight end sets because of what Isaiah likely did.

And then likely gets drafted at all. And he does not do anything. I'm looking forward to talking about Isaiah likely. We'll get to him a little bit later. And let's I'd love for the breakout to be Dolchich. I really still have hope for him. There you go. Heath, let's talk about FFT

Dynasty this week. What do we have coming up? Two episodes. We are going to have some combat, combat, combat, combine talk tomorrow with dynasty this week what do we have coming up two episodes we are going to have some combat combat combat combine talk tomorrow with uh down on the dynasty theo grimager from player profiler and then on friday we have a um mailbag with russ fisher so yeah combine talk i'm going to be uh expanding my rookie rankings now that we're past the combine from 12 to 25. So we get that on the site by tomorrow. We'll talk about those and we will answer your dynasty questions.

So send us some emails. And stick around. We're going to take a quick break here. When we come back, we'll talk about Mike Evans, Darren Waller, Alexander Madison, and more after this quick break on fantasy football today. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic.

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Should have skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on Skip. News and notes. Mike Evans is going to sign a two-year deal worth $54 million with the Buccaneers. Heath, you like it? You like that he's back? It's easier for projections, yeah. Just plug him right back into the same role. It stinks for Chris Godwin, probably. But yeah, assuming Baker's back,

then I think Evans is a good number two wide receiver and uh baker is a fine number two qb jamie your thoughts i'd be surprised if baker's not back at this point i can't imagine that evans would agree to this without wanting some semblance of continuity from the quarterback position and i'm going to guess that if they didn't want to bring baker back they would have let ev Evans walk and just hit the reset button. Look, I said this from the beginning. This was what I hoped. I wanted to see him finish his career with Tampa Bay

and see if he can get into the Hall of Fame. I think his credentials are worthy of it. For our purposes, he's not somebody I'll be very much – I have a lot of stock in terms of my fantasy teams because of his age. But at the right price, I think he's going to still be a very productive number two fantasy receiver. I just don't think he'll live up to the expectations of what he's done or what he did last year. That's a little bit of a stretch. Now the fourth highest paid wide receiver by annual value.

Okay. Hey, Dave is here. Dave, welcome. Yo, what's up? Happy for Mike Evans, man. Good for him. I think he's in the Hall of Fame, welcome. Yo, what's up? Happy for Mike Evans, man. Good for him. I think he's in the Hall of Fame, Jamie. I would hope so. It's always tough with receivers. You see what somebody like Isaac Bruce is going through right now. Reggie Wayne, some guys that are very good and have pretty impressive resumes themselves.

We'll see. I think based on just his production, you know, the 10 years of 1,000-yard season, 10 straight seasons of 1,000 yards should put him in what he's meant for this team. I mean, he's really the best player in Buccaneers history offensively of all time. And, you know, that certainly speaks volumes.

So he should get in. Yeah, I think you're right, Adam. Does this matter to anyone when it comes to Mike Evans? Probably not. Over the last seven games, including the postseason, he had six fewer targets than Chris Godwin. I mean, it definitely matters.

You know, that was when Godwin won catch lists against Carolina. Right. You know, over the full season, it obviously was not the case. But over the last seven games, including two postseason games, Godwin had six more targets. Godwin was on pace for 150 more yards, 22 more catches. Evans was on pace for five more touchdowns per 17 games. But yeah, I mean, when you you see that dave do you feel like godwin's going to be the better value in 2024 where are we drafting godwin well let's take a look at our most recent draft okay so this was a few weeks ago mike evans was 36th overall to dave richard so the last pick of round three chris chwin went to Heath in the middle of round six. So two and a half rounds later.

I think they're both good values. I would imagine that Godwin maybe by a nudge, like if I had been able to get Evans like half a round later, I'd say Evans. Because then we're talking about a two-round difference, and I think that he'll still be better than Godwin next year. I'd probably move Godwin back around from where I drafted him because when I drafted him there, there was a hope he was the team's number one wide receiver. And what about the rookies? We haven't even talked about the rookies being added.

I wouldn't anticipate Evans making it that far. He's going to get drafted higher based on ADP. Where do you think he'll get drafted? I think he'll go early round three. Yeah. I don't love that. But I also, how many of the rookies do you think will get taken ahead of Mike Evans? None. None?

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. I think Marvin Harrison will for sure get drafted ahead of Mike Evans. I don't think so. I wouldn't be surprised if neighbors or Junze does, too. Let's X-poll this right now. This is a great one. All right.

I like it. Mike or Marv? Who are you drafting first in ppr okay all right uh let's go to our next news item here as i type out the rest of the tweet the vikings are going to release alexander madison any reaction jamie not a huge surprise you know i mean based on how he struggled last year when he was given the opportunity to be the featured guy and Ty Chandler was just as good as not better and the opportunities that he got. So this is an easy landing spot for some running back, whether it's, you know, free agent or rookie, but this is a backfield that we get to hopefully get some

upgrades from. And I'm looking forward to seeing who they do, what they do. Is this a team that goes after one of the big free agents? I would imagine if they signed cousins back at a reasonable deal and they feel like their offense is as good as anybody's in the NFC North and maybe the NFC that they should be able to be aggressive in that regard. I mean, look how good they did two years ago when the run game was a little bit better.

So why not? Well, Dave, there are what 32 teams and there are about 35, a big name, there are, what, 32 teams, and there are about 35 big-name free agent running backs available. I think every team. Feels like that, right. Every team's going to have a new running back.

Everybody gets one. How many of those running backs get more than $10 million, like on their total contract? Oh, one or two. I'd say three. Three? Yeah. Barkley, Jacobs, and Henry. Darren Waller may retire.

Wow. Doesn't give you a lot of faith in drafting him this year, huh? Would you take Jake Ferguson? We might not be. Jake Ferguson or Darren Waller if he comes back? So originally he was saying he was going to retire, and then there was a report that he's not retiring, and then I think he kind of walked back on that. Did they tell him they were going to trade up for a quarterback?

In our latest CBS Sports mock draft, the Giants do trade up for a quarterback. Fourth overall, I believe. Anyway, but yeah, would you take Ferguson or Darren Waller? I was taking Ferguson before this news, so yes, Ferguson. Same. I think it's probably Ferguson. Okay. NFL Executive VP of Football Operations Troy Vincent seemed to indicate that the tush-push is not going to get banned.

Some Dallas news. Left tackle Tyron Smith is unlikely to return to the team. That's a first ballot Hall of Famer, you gotta think. Dallas linebacker Leighton Vander Esch is dealing with another neck injury, according to the Dallas Morning News.

And that just stinks for him. He was a really terrific player. Hope he can get back on the field. The Eagles are going to release safety Kevin Byard, according to Fox Sports. How about Cleveland head coach Kevin Stefanski? Heath may not call plays as they hired Ken Dorsey, who the former Bills offensive coordinator. And Stefanski, Heath, may not call plays as they hired Ken Dorsey,

who the former Bills offensive coordinator. And Stefanski's been the play caller. Would this change anything for your projections? It would make me a little bit more worried about David Njoku's volume. That's interesting. Why? Because Stefanski's offense for the last five years has had a 25% plus target share for tight ends, which is pretty rare. It's kind of an outlier.

And so if he, even if it was still his offense, but he wasn't the one calling the individual plays, I would be afraid there would be fewer first look reads for no joke. Who in the offense. Yeah, I get that. The counter to it. And I don't know if this is going to end up playing out,

but what was the reason why Dorsey got fired in Buffalo? Besides being escaped turnovers. Yeah. It was Josh Allen's turnovers. It was, and throwing a lot. He threw a lot. So I wonder if that tendency not only helps no joke. I don't know if he's going to get a higher target share, but does that help Watson?

Does that help the wide receivers? Is this a team that with Nick Chubb not coming back like the Nick Chubb that we know, uh, do they throw a little bit more? Does Stefanski want them to throw a little more? Okay. I don't know the answer to that. All right, let's see. The Saints release safety Marcus Mayer will release him.

Tennessee still believes in Will Levis as its starting quarterback, according to NFL Network. The Dolphins are not expected to use the franchise tag on defensive tackle Christian Wilkins. That is a big name that could hit free agency then. And well, I guess not that many letters if we're talking about just the size of the name. Kansas City expected to use the franchise tag on the Jerry Sneed. Thank you. We're laughing at you, not with you. And the Packers unlikely to re-sign A.J. Dillon, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Back to the second and third year tight ends.

We've talked a lot about Laporta, McBride, and Dalton Kincaid. Dave, you haven't said anything about them, so I'm going to give you one minute to talk about the top three sophomore and third year tight ends, Laporta, McBride, and Kincaid. How do you rank them and why? It's Laporta, Kincaid. No, it's Laporta, McBride, and Kincaid if we're talking full PPR. If it's non-PPR, I'm going to flip McBride and Kincaid. And I almost feel like these two past draft classes are the tight end groups that are going to save the position in fantasy. Because we weren't super excited about tight ends looking forward two years ago. There was Kelsey and then there was Andrews and they're older and like Pitts wasn't coming through.

Fryermuth had a bad second season. There weren't a lot of tight ends to be excited about. Now there are. And it's fun to see where they go in their second season. I'm especially intrigued by Kincaid and whether he can be the number two target getter in Buffalo this coming season. Laporta, I think he's locked into being top two for Detroit. I think he's a monster.

McBride should be top two for Arizona as well, although I am a little worried if the Cardinals do get Marvin Harrison, what does that do to McBride's target volume? I think it'll make him open a lot more often, so I think he'll still be good. I like a lot of these tight ends, and I think it'll make him open a lot more often. So I think he'll still be good. I like a lot of these tight ends. And I think fantasy managers will be encouraged to go after these

younger, hipper tight ends that are going to have a chance to be difference makers in fantasy. Okay. I have a question that I think is difficult to answer. I'm going to ask you anyway. Of all of the second and third year tight ends, who do you think is the most talented pass catcher? McBride. Laporta. I think it's either McBride or Laporta or Kincaid. I think it is Isaiah Likely.

Okay. What do you think? That's ridiculous. Why? But what's his problem? Justify it. I just was watching some tape of all these guys this morning, and I just think they're all really talented. I think Likely to me is the most

receiver-esque, and I think if they all had the same situation, were playing on the same team, I think Likely would put up the best number. Maybe Kincaid. I'd say Likely or Kincaid over the other two. I'd love to see a team trade for Likely. Yeah, I mean, look, it's a very small sample size.

I think it was 26 targets or something like that for Isaiah Likely, but his metrics blow away the other guys. The only one who's better than him at tight end is Kittle in those last six games in terms of like explosive catch rate and, and things like that. Yards per target yards per catch. I think maybe not all of them, but, but he was,

you know, he was much better than the other guys, but I know it's small sample size, but he's very talented and he kind of makes my jaw drop sometimes. Not feeling makes you wonder why didn't the Ravens use him more before the He's very talented, and he kind of makes my jaw drop sometimes. Makes you wonder, why didn't the Ravens use him more before the Andrews injury? Sure. Maybe there's something we don't know.

But, yeah, Heath used him. And, yeah, those same metrics, what he did after the catch and what he did on a per-target or per-route basis, were not near as good the year before. And he was a fourth-round pick out of Coastal Carolina before that. So I don't think that 25 targets or whatever should impact our opinion of his talent quite that much. It's not really for me.

It's kind of a gut feeling but i think he's terrific i would love i would love to see him get a shot somewhere yeah um i know if if andrews got hurt he'd be the if andrews had a season-ending injury he'd be like a 80 plus percent of the fab kind of guy you know whether that works out or not i don't know but he would be that exciting you know like like m McBride just was. Or he should have been anyway. McBride was. Yeah, should have been.

Do you pair them up in a deeper league? You're not going to do it in a 12-team regular redraft. Andrews and likely on the same team? Deeper league or tight end premium? Tight end premium for sure. I don't think deeper leagues are handcuffing tight ends. Well, no. In general, what do I wantck right for if i've got sam laporta but in this specific case knowing what we can get out of likely if andrews goes down like i don't want to draft likely if

things stay the same in baltimore i don't want to draft likely with one of my last few picks because by week three or week four if andrews isn't hurt i'm probably dropping him so yeah like what's the point to carrying him in a regular redraft league i don't think there is unless something happens to andrews but if you're talking seven plus bench spots tight end premium uh maybe it's a 14 team league and it's not tight end premium maybe you do spend the extra draft spot to lock up the Ravens tight end duo. It sounds crazy, but deeper leagues, I'd at least think about it if I spent up on Andrews.

It's an interesting point. The Chargers should trade for him. That would be fantastic. Is he a good blocker? I don't care. He's Greg Roman. That's kind of why I think he doesn't play much. He doesn't really fit the Ravens style style so much, but whatever. Well, your second tight end's got to block if Andrews is your number one.

Fair. Okay, anyway, let's talk about Jake Ferguson. I guess he'd be next on the list after Laporta, McBride, and Dalton Kincaid. And Jake Ferguson was the number eight or nine, depending on the format, tight end in fantasy. Last year, he was 10th per game. He did have six to eight targets in six straight games to end the regular season.

And then in the playoffs, I mean, this would have really impacted his numbers big time, right? He had 93 yards and three touchdowns in one playoff game in that comeback effort. So he finished strong. Jamie, what do you think the upside is? 93 yards and three touchdowns in one playoff game in that comeback effort. So he finished strong. Jamie, what do you think the upside is? Is Ferguson just kind of the boring ho-hum player, or is there some hidden upside there for Ferguson?

I don't think there's hidden upside. I think you kind of know what Dak Prescott gets out of his tight ends. It was Jason Witten at the end of his career, the beginning of Dak's career. It was Dalton Schultz for a year and a half, and then it's been Jake Ferguson. It's almost like, you know, rinse, wash, repeat of the same numbers for the, for the guys. It's 700, 800 yards at most, uh, you know, 50, 60 catches and seven and eight tight ends, seven, eight touchdowns, um, at tops. You know, I mean, that's, that's what you're getting, which is back end tight end one production, which is fine for where you're going to draft him.

Sam Laporta had 15 red zone targets and eight end zone targets. Ferguson had nine end zone targets. That led all tight ends. And 23 red zone targets. Jamie nailed it. It's the red zone work that tight ends get with Dak Prescott. As long as he's in that role, he's worth that late round pick. I thought he was second in end-zone targets,

but did he lead all of them? I thought it was Njoku was one or something like that. It might be qualifiers. I'm looking at qualifiers, but Njoku should be on there. Njoku had 10. Njoku might have had more. Njoku had 10,

and Jake Ferguson was second with nine. Dalton Schultz also tied, so how about that? All the Dallas tight ends. No, Schultz and Ferguson had nine. Someone in our comments said, Luke Schoonmaker could be the starter at the end of the year for the Cowboys.

Watch out or be careful. And we have to talk about him, Heath, because he's a second-year tight end now, Schoonmaker. Do you think he factors in at all, at least enough to hurt Jake Ferguson? I thought he was just quoting me from last offseason. No, I think as long as Ferguson stays healthy he's probably going to stay in that role

they do like to use two or three tight ends at a time they like to throw it's super frustrating when you have Ferguson because somebody with a number one number away from him that plays tight end is going to catch a touchdown you're going to think it was Jake Ferguson but I think he will hold on

to that job. It's just like, how excited are you going to get about it? He is, in terms of a top 12 tight end, he's almost the definition of just a guy. Do you guys have a strong Luke Musgrave versus Michael Mayer take? Do you like one of them more definitively? I like Mayer more because I liked him more coming out

and because I don't have to worry that Tucker Kraft's actually the best tight end on the Raiders. There's definitely less mouth to feed in the Raiders offense right now. But at least you know you've seen Musgrave produce a little bit. And so I think if you want to, you know, we always say, oh, who's the next this, who's the next that? Mayer could be the next McBride, you know, a guy that did very little in his rookie campaign,

huge opportunity, and certainly talented enough that if he gets that opportunity, you know, you can see the rocket ships going, you know. So what the Raiders do with their receiving core is going to be interesting. More importantly, what they do with their quarterback situation is going to be interesting. But I think with the right passer in place and giving him that bump in playing time and just understanding the offense, you know, I mean, he was he was playing scout team as a left tackle at times last year trying to block Max Crosby. Like, that's just not something you want to see him doing.

So upside, I think the play is Mayer. But, you know, the floor right now, now I think has to go to Musgrave. And when we talk about tight ends with upside, it's a funny conversation to have because there's always one or two guys that do really well and nobody saw it coming. So it's hard to predict it. But Musgrave and Mayer, are they guys that you could see having a top five season? And people might laugh at that, but it happens all the time. It's like half of the top six tight ends every year, it seems like,

are surprises. So can we just put Musgrave and Mayer in that category? Yep. Things have to break right, though. I don't see a path to either of them being top two on their team and targets. It's a little easier for Mayer than it is for Musgrave, just because there are fewer quality wide receivers, not to mention Tucker Kraft, like Heath said, in Green Bay,

kind of sort of blocking Musgrave there. But I'm not sure if I feel good about drafting either one of these guys in a non-tight end premium league, because of the same thing that i said with likely three weeks into the season they could be doing nothing all right i need the roster spot for somebody off the waiver wire and i'm cutting these dudes loose if there's buzz on mayor he's going to get drafted like i i do think he's the one that could make that leap it just it seems too tough for musgrave unless it's just totally touchdown dependent. Chig Okonkwo is on this list of your two, your three tight ends.

Did you know in his last seven games, he was the number 10 tight end in fantasy, but he's number 15 per game. And he only had one touchdown in those games. He was on pace for 63 catches, 782 yards, two touchdowns on 83 targets. And he had, in that stretch, he averaged 9.5 yards per target, which is pretty much what he did as a rookie, which is what got everyone's attention. Do we have some...

And by the way, that wasn't all Will Levis. Will Levis got hurt at the end of the year. So it was like half Levis. But does anybody have any hope for Chigokonkwo? You know, so we had this conversation a lot last year about him because could he be first or second on his team in targets? And at the time, the answer was yes, because it was Traylon Burks and Okonkwo before they brought in DeAndre Hopkins. Then when Hopkins came in, it was like, OK, it's tough to trust this, but maybe the athleticism and the coaches favoring him and what Tannehill was expected to do prior to Olevis taking over, whether that was going to happen or not. There was still, I think, some slight optimism for him,

but he was, I know for myself, you know, went from a borderline top 12 guy to outside the top 15 with the addition of Hopkins. Now we're back to the same situation again, if they decide to move on from Hopkins, but does that necessarily mean that's going to help Oconco take that step forward? Now, most likely better offense comes in from the standpoint

of more passing, a little bit more aggressive in that range, not the same run game. So yeah, I think this is a guy that you can take a flyer on. And again, we'll see what this receiving court looks like. But right now you have an aging Hopkins and incomplete Burks and really not much else behind those guys. So hopefully this is an opportunity for him to, uh, get featured in, in, uh, Callahan's offense. And, and we see some of those, you know, upside performances get more consistent over the course of the season.

And, and he actually was second on his team in targets last year. Yeah. How about that? Yeah. And I think I want a lunch bet on the back of, uh, Chico Conquo.

Is that right? You did. Yes. We, uh, this was again, following the NFL draft, it was Oconquo versus Kincaid. So it was before that Hopkins was You did, yes. This was, again, following the NFL draft. It was Okonkwo versus

Kincaid, so it was before that Hopkins was signed. No, no. I meant late in the year. I liked him one week as a streamer. Oh, did you? It was him versus some other scrub, and he probably had like 35 yards to 25 yards or something. You owe me a lot of lunch, but I still need

to put Jamie's picture up behind me. Other guys, Greg Dolcich. The end. There is somebody that's intriguing to me just because of the situation. That's Jeremy Ruckert in New York for the Jets. Had some potential coming into the league. Didn't really do anything in his rookie campaign. I thought maybe a second year.

Then they signed CJ Uzama on top of Conklin being there and obviously aaron rogers going down but i'm interested to see what his role is going to be because you know uzama won't be there and so can he have an opportunity to take a step forward with you know somewhat of an incomplete receiving core so he's somebody that i think you look at and maybe some deeper leagues i picked him up in a couple dynasty leagues where he was available just you know stashed to see what happens. Here's another good call here from Don. Technically, yeah, this is where I was going to go. Thank you, Don. Davis Allen is a second-year

player. We know Higby's going to be late to start the season. And he showed some flashes at the end of the year. He's 6'6", 250 pounds, can move a little bit. He's not a bad late-round flyer just because he could be, you know,

an occasional second or maybe he's never going to be second. He's going to be third on the team and targets. Maybe he has a couple of breakaway plays. Yeah, he could be fourth too, but it maybe David sound like, let's say we like the Ram schedule to begin the year. Maybe you're taking him with your last pick to be a streaming tight end.

Anybody want to talk about Dulcich or anyone else? Oh, I loved him coming out, but injuries have seemed to have robbed him of opportunity. Okay. All right. Well, if there's nothing else, then we will move on to the NFL combine after we move on to this commercial break, hit it, Schaefer.

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All right, NFL Combine. Dave really wanted to talk about the NFL Combine. What did you want to talk about? I think the receivers are going to be incredibly deep. This is such a great receiver class. You went into the combine knowing for sure who like the top three guys were going to be between Harrison neighbors or dunes a in some order, but so many other wide receivers caught our attention at the combine. And then you go back and you watch them play a little bit and they're really good this is such a there's like 11 wide receivers that can make not just an impact in fantasy but

like an impact where maybe half the season they've got potential to be in the starting rotation for our fantasy teams it's such a good class i'm really looking forward to breaking them all down and it's especially good for dynasty league managers i don't know if heath will agree with me on this or not, but you're going to be able to find good talent wide receiver going well in around two in your rookie only drafts. Yeah, I think that's probably true in a super flex league. And it's true if a couple of these running backs get good landing spots in

round two, but you look at a lot of the mock drafts right now, there's no running backs in round one of rookie drafts. And so if that means in a one quarterback league that we've got 10 wide receivers going in round one, then there might not be any wide receivers in round two. But no, I thought it was really good to see Brian Thomas and Ed and I Mitchell, two guys that I'm a little bit concerned about, increased their stock a little bit.

I did wonder, Adam, is Xavier Worthy too fast? Well, he's a super productive receiver. He ran a record, what, 4.21? You don't want to be that fast. The thing is, I don't know what it was. Like, everyone ran super fast, pretty much. I mean, well, and not, and not just that, um, the, the relative athletic scores, um, off the charts, even at the running back position, like some of these, some of these running backs look like some of the best athletes to ever test at the combine.

And I think it's just a reminder that these guys have better training and better equipment and are better athletes than what there were 10 years ago so we've got to be a little bit careful there's also some conspiracy theory around that though is that right yeah that the combine's a dying event and that you know these numbers are being tweaked a little bit i mean i think it would be more weird if they weren't breaking records every year that's what happens in the olympics like we just continue to produce better athletes but i mean we it's a it's a rabbit hole we don't have to go down yes uh it's definitely you know depending on who you talk to it's it's i can definitely hear hear some people's voices in my head saying these things

it's not the people you would think. I mean, there's, there's actually an interesting, there's Keon Coleman, who's a wide receiver out of Florida state. He's a big dude. He ran one of the slowest 40 times among wide receivers,

if not the slowest. And he ran the fastest gauntlet drill among the wide receivers, which is guys running the width of the field and catching passes from a different side, you know, as they go. You have to watch it. I could probably do a better job explaining it, but I bring it up because ESPN had a very interesting article

about the 40-yard dash and how it's losing its, you know, its luster, and it's just not that relevant for NFL teams anymore. And they talked about the guy who had none of what happens at the combine. No, that's not true. That well, almost there's two major things that happen at the combine.

That's really why teams still go and they help players still go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Medicals and the interviews. Right. Okay. Anyway,

sorry. Let me just make this point about Keon Coleman. They, they talked about the Rams drafting a guy who had one of the slowest 40 times last year, but ran the fastest gauntlet time. And that was Puka Nakua. So Keon Coleman, who I think has no, you know, based on what I'm reading has no chance to be a first round pick anymore because his 4.62, I think it was 40 time was terrible. You know, he's big. You know, keep an eye on him. Don't him. Don't necessarily sweat his 40 time

because he ran the best gauntlet time and he basically did what Puka Nakua did. And he's a much different receiver than Puka, but just something to keep in mind here as we learn more. Wasn't Anshul a 4.6 guy once upon a time? He fell in the draft. There should never be a fantasy decision based on the comment. It's certainly not on the 40-yard dash.

I get it if you want to use the combine to measure athleticism, the math bomb scores, the spark scores, that stuff. I would say that that matters, but it's not like the players coming to the combine aren't great athletes to begin with.

So you'd expect them to measure well when it comes to their athleticism. A running back who runs a 4'6, I think should be a red flag. And I think Emory said the same thing. Yeah. And you get, start to get up there and that's, that's like Damien Pierce. I was surprised he had as good of a rookie year as he did, but those guys, it's, it's not,

you don't find a lot of studs running in the high four fives or the four sixes. So I still think there's something to it. Running back, that is. Still think there's something to it. Nothing is ever absolute, right? I mean, there's always, there are always exceptions. But yeah, I think there's something to be gained from all of it.

Not just the 40, but all of it. Any other, looks like the offensive lineman did really well. Tested really well. Good. Yeah, that's another deep position this year. If you were worried about Caleb Williams' size, which I was a little bit worried about his size because I kind of thought he'd be smaller

than what he was listed at. It seems like he's, you know, he's, I thought it was a chance Caleb Williams was going to be like six feet, but he's not. He's over 6'1". He has bigger hands than Drake May. So there, and everyone, like everyone just seems convinced that the bears are taking him,

Caleb Williams and the Falcons are now the front runners to land. Justin Fields. Based on the, the books. Yes. I think it's the book. Okay. Odds.

Yes. There was a report today that said that the Browns might actually be interested. I, I don today that said that the Browns might actually be interested. I don't know how that happens, but okay. Well, I think the NFL Combine stuff, you should definitely listen to the Dynasty show tomorrow. And if you want to watch it live, 10 a.m., right? 11.

11, sorry. 11 a.m. Eastern. 10 a.m. Chicago time. 10 a.m. At the NFL Combine in Indianapolis, it'd be 10 a.m. Eastern. 10 a.m. Chicago time. 10 a.m. At the NFL Combine in Indianapolis, it'd be 10 a.m. No.

I've been there twice and I forgot that. Apparently not in the right time. That's why I was late for my flight. Anyway, I think that's it for us. Do you guys have anything to add? How was your weekend? Very good. I watched a lot of Combine. Any of you guys have anything to add? How was your weekend? Very good.

Watched a lot of combine. It was fun. That sounds great. A lot of baseball. I watched St. Elmo's Fire for the first time. Oh, I love that movie. That was a good one. It was awful.

No. What is your favorite? Maybe because I'm watching it when I'm 47, and it's 30 years since the movie was made and when I think of Judd Nelson I think of Bender from Breakfast Club which is a movie I've seen a thousand times I just couldn't get into it

and I knew every twist and turn that was coming I could predict it it was not that good yeah well that's why when people don't believe me and Heath by the way when we tell you that Top Gun is not a good movie the original and if you didn't see it when you were a kid and you saw it now for the first time you wouldn't like Top Gun

and I don't really like The Breakfast Club because I didn't see that until I was an adult no The Breakfast Club is great The Breakfast Club is awesome what did you say? I watched Top Gun last week. What'd you say? I watched Top Gun last week. It was great. Yeah, because of nostalgia. It's not really great. I don't know.

Shane Oblachar is known more for the song, that Man in Motion song, than it is for anything that happened in that movie. Yeah. Schaefer, how many of these movies have you seen? I think we should make him watch all of these 80s classics and see if they're good. I haven't seen Top Gun. I've seen Breakfast Club.

Yeah, watch Top Gun. St. Elmo's Fire. I've never even heard of that movie. Demi Moore. Don't bother. Don't bother. Demi Moore's in that, right? Demi Moore's in there.

I also like Some Kind of Wonderful. That's one of my favorites from that era. The best 80s movie is Weekend at Bernie's, though. I've actually never seen that one. I've only seen like 15 minutes of that one. Weekend at Bernie's is fun to watch once. All right. Well, I think Schaefer needs to watch Top Gun,

and we'll see if it's any good. He'll be the definitive answer. I used to do this with Schra Top Gun, and we'll see if it's any good. He'll be the definitive answer. I used to do this with Schrager, and I didn't trust Schrager at all. I trust Schaefer. Watch it before Thursday. Watch it before Thursday? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. Watch it before Thursday. Okay. Thanks, everybody, for watching and listening. You can go watch Top Gun. Go watch Maverick on Paramount+. And we'll talk to you on Wednesday on Fantasy Football Today. And it's not just clothing and shoes. You can get cash back from over 750 stores on electronics, holiday travel, home decor, and more. It's super easy.

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