Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast - Rookie Review + 2nd Year Star Potential? - Fantasy Football Podcast for 2/18

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

Fantasy Football talk for Feb 18, 2025. Who will take a step forward in their second season? A review of the entire 2024 rookie class on today’s podcast! Is there hope for the running backs? Which wide receivers can be fantasy football superstars? Get a full rookie review with outlooks for year two! Manage your redraft, keeper, and dynasty fantasy football teams with the #1 fantasy football podcast. Get the lowest price on the 2025 UDK at UltimateDraftKit.com - Order before March 1st for an entry to win a Listener League Spot! Connect with the show: Subscribe on YouTube Visit us on the Web Support the Show Follow on X Follow on Instagram Join our Discord Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright. Welcome in. Tuesday, February 18th, Jason Moore, Mike Wright, Andy Holloway. It's the Fantasy Footballers Podcast.

Happy to be with you. All of you listening, all of you watching the show over on youtube.com slash the fantasy footballers. Jay with a you-hoo wave over there. Welcome to YouTube. A little bit frightening. We got a great show for you today. We're going to do some rookie review and I'll be curious gentlemen, which rookies you think will be elite

sophomore options for fantasy football players. So we'll walk through the positions. We'll keep it brief, but I do want to know if you fell in love with one or two of these players in each position that whether they performed in their rookie season or not, you think, days are ahead. Yeah, Joe Milton III. They did talk about him getting traded. Dude, he was awesome for one part of one game. Week 18, yeah. A reminder, the Ultimate Draft Kit available now,

the pre-order that is, ultimatedraftkit.com, where you can get instant access to the Dynasty Pass, and you can learn all about the UDK and the Dynasty Pass at ultimatedraftkit.com. We have a special giveaway, a chance to win a Listener League spot, come and play with us in 2025. It's also the lowest possible price you can get.

So if you're gonna get it, eventually get it now. Yeah, if you're listening to the show, you're probably playing fantasy football this year, which means you're gonna want the Ultimate Draft Kit price get in our listener league have a chance at it and The all the dynasty stuff, you know, we're talking rookies today the incoming rookies are Outlined their team opportunities a bunch of stuff is already up and available even though the main thing launches on June 1st And the community you can always find it at jointhefoot.com. We'd love to have you, uh, hop in there and become a part of the foot clan.

We have a quick question of the day. It's a Instagram question written in by S D P dub. Don't know what that means. What is the most important thing when it comes to starting a dynasty league? So it is dynasty season. We have a dynasty podcast. Let's talk about dynasty leagues. Yeah, I mean, to me, if you're going to start a new dynasty league, the most important thing is the league mates, the members of the league. This is something that you hope is around for, you know, at least a decade. You know,. You're gonna go through cycles and have rivalries

and you need active managers. When you have, it's not like a redraft league. A redraft league, you got your buddy Bill who really doesn't give two farts and whatever. Next year, he's like, yeah, I'm not, I don't wanna do it. Poor Bill. Well, Bill needs to stop farting around. All the Bills out there.

So I would just say have a group of people who are dedicated and love fantasy football. That's just going to make your league better. If you're a member, join the foot, you can go to footclanleagues.com, find someone to fill in. And I would just say to that point, like, you know, all of the leagues we're in, they're 12 man leagues. Every league that I play in is 12, at least. Our listener league is even larger.

But I would be happier to play in an eight-team dynasty league with a core group of eight that I know is going to be around for a long time and just make the rosters larger. Go triple flex. It's easier to fix that. Yeah, and then if you want to add two more managers and turn and turn it into a ten team down the road you can do fun Expansion drafts there's there's ways to get around that as opposed to just

Filling it being like I've got to have 12 guys in this league or 12 people so you know it just doesn't it's not gonna be as fun Mike do you have a I mean that dynasty tip? I mean that that's a good one. That is the most important thing, but if you're talking specifically about your startup draft, it's... Screw them RBs. That's Mike's usual. Yeah, that really is, especially old running backs.

But it's, don't overvalue youth in your dynasty draft. Don't reach for guys who, they shouldn't be going in the second or third round. You're like, well, they're so young, so I'm gonna have them on my team forever. You know, you need to balance that. You do need to balance with some old guys, but generally speaking, in the first round,

early on, I'm not drafting really any running backs, but if you're going to get one, it has to be B'Jaun, Gibbs, guys who are just young. I'm like, Saquon Barkley, Barkley's going to finish as a top five, top three running back next year, assuming he plays all the games, but for how long? I've got a more nuanced tip for dynasty leagues in terms of making them more entertaining and fun. If you can get the history documented for the league in whatever way possible, that's more fun as a dynasty league carries on. I think those stats are great, you

know, whatever it is, the most points scored in a season, the best record of all time. Obviously, you're going to know your champions, but there's a lot of different metrics, head-to-head matchups, rivalries. There are websites that will provide that for you. There's a lot of them out there. I think League Legacy is one of them, but there's several other ones. Those are best to get connected early when you start the league as opposed to trying to go back and figure out all of that information. So if you enjoy that kind of that side of it, to me, dynasty is all about the longevity and the franchise history and building something special. And so opportunities to break records

to know records are coming up. I mean, that stuff's fun for me mm-hmm and make sure you're on a platform or in an environment where communication it's simple and easy so you can be talking all year round wherever that is a slack channel maybe it's on sleep or whatever the case may be talk that trash I'm not gonna hit the drop but I do have one piece of news we're pre recording this show we're at FSGA in Las Vegas, the Fantasy Sports and Gaming Association Conference. So we're recording the show a little bit early.

So there may be other big news that has broken and we'll get to that on future episodes. The only thing that we haven't talked about on the show that did come out was a tandem bit of news about James Cook. One, first it came out, he's looking to receive 15 million a year on the next contract. That's the small news. And then the next day, went on Instagram Live,

pinned his own comment about 15 million a year, and then he removed the team from his profile. We got him. Scrub a dub from his profile. We got him. Scrub-a-dub-dub that profile. We got him. The Bills know that James Cook is not messing around. He means business. He got rid of, I mean, worked for Kyler, right?

This is stupid. It's so stupid. It's the worst. Have we been checking Al Borland's profile to see if he's still listed as producer? Because I don't know if that's the negotiation tactic that, you know. I feel like if someone did that here, we'd just let him go. Right?

I'm looking for a new contract. I'm going to take all mentions of the famous footballers. Right. If that's what you're saying. No. Speed-wise. So for some context, obviously, contracts, they go up. So Christian McCaffrey right now, he's an average of, what is it, 19 mil a year.

And then the second highest average is Jonathan Taylor at 14. Is James Cook worth 15 million a year, even with the inflationary context? It's really difficult because the question is, could James Cook be worth that? I think so, but the way that the Buffalo Bills use their running backs, especially now when they're like, no, we use three guys. We use Ty Johnson. We use Ray Davis.

So to have that amount of money into a position that things fall apart pretty fast. It's so. They can justify it, because they could say, well, we just pay an average of $6 million per each running back. 15 million goes to Cook, and then, you know, a million to each of the other guys.

It's a weird off season because you just saw the influence of a dynamic running back being added to an offense and the value of Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry and Josh Jacobs and doing. Saquon's average salary is 12 and a half million. So I think 15 seems like a a stretch. Looks like Derrick Henry's at 8 million. We don't start low. Josh Jacobs is at 12 million.

You don't start low when you start pulling it off of the IG. Maybe he did send them a note and said I want 15 and didn't get a reply. And maybe they got a reply and it said, go ahead and remove bills from your profile. This is not James Cook at all. He's like, I want 15 million. He's like, dude, just scrub. Just go ahead and scrub it. I mean, it's crazy because we just talked about James Cook again on the last episode.

And, you know, the 16 touchdowns, like if there was ever a time to negotiate your contract. Oh, yeah. After you scored two touchdowns, two touchdowns. If there was ever a time to negotiate your contract, after you scored two touchdowns, two touchdowns, then you went to 16. He's going into year four, right? He probably started asking for a million in touchdown. I mean, on the back of this offseason, where the big signings at running back made giant impacts for the rosters,

took teams deep into the playoffs, won a Superbowl. Yeah. You start to say, look, running backs matter again. And, uh, you know, I'm the second best player on the bills. You got to pay me accordingly. I don't mind him doing that. If you're running back, try to get your money. You're not worth it. You're, the running back market should not be giving 15 million to someone per year. That's not a top three back in the league. And he's not a top three back.

He is currently the number 48 on the average salary on the pay. By running back. So this is, I'd like to be paid appropriately. And I do believe a little bit in the rewarding, the season when you play it like, you know, Brock Purdy, right? He a bunch of years at no money. James Cook is going to be an unrestricted free agent in 2026.

So this will be the final year of his deal. His base salary this year will be 5.1 in the final year of his deal. I believe his brother threatened to hold out about the same timeline and then gave in and played on the contract if memory serves. Yeah, so we'll see what happens with James Cook. Apparently, that'll be a storyline we get to enjoy all offseason long. Let's talk some rookies. Rookie review. All right, we'll take a quick walk down memory lane, see what we got out of the rookies this year,

position by position and who we think can take a step forward in 2025. We'll begin with a player I know, I feel like Jason is very confident in the future capabilities of Caleb Williams. Is it confidence? Or you're just hopeful because of Ben Johnson? So I think it is more hope than confidence,

but it's optimistic hope. In the sense that there are times where you just didn't see enough from a player to believe. Rookie year Bryce Young, it was very difficult to see the path for him. He just didn't have any success. He didn't show the flashes. Now he's gotten it together. I think now there's optimism in Carolina that Bryce Young's a thing. But last year with Caleb Williams, while he had some just abysmal games, his inability to get rid of the ball and stop taking sacks.

But those are rookie mistakes. He also had really great moments, flashes of brilliance, showed kind of the special features he has, his arm strength and talent. And so you combine that with Ben Johnson coming in. And so I am optimistic that it's gonna work out. Finished as the quarterback for team was drafted in the ninth round in fantasy leagues. And not what we hoped for or expected.

You said flashes of brilliance, there were plays, there were moments, stuff that other quarterbacks that we've looked at in the rookie seasons never gave us. That is for sure. I don't know if I saw the complete game. I go what I'd love to have seen one complete game where I felt like he was in control from the beginning of the first quarter

through the fourth quarter. They won the game and I said, hey, that's just something you need to start to repeat. Oh, I agree completely. I mean, he had a couple games. So he had, from a fantasy standpoint, he had five top six fantasy finishes on the week. But even in some of those great games,

the first half, it's like he had 33 yards. And then they were getting blown out. He came back and had a great comeback and showed those. I agree with you. There was no consistency. And I don't think I saw a complete game, just front to back, open to close. Yeah, I'm gonna trust in Ben Johnson with you, Jason,

of like, I want good coaches and good offenses to put my players on the path to success, but man, Caleb looked brutal to me, of just frantic, not seeing, looked like he could be easily confused. He has great arm talent, but I'm concerned. The second rookie quarterback off the board in the 10th round who finishes the quarterback four in the year, Jaden Daniels, we have been. I'm less concerned. The second rookie quarterback off the board in the 10th round who finished as the quarterback for the year, Jaden Daniels, we have been.

I'm less concerned. Yeah, I mean, this was awesome. I mean, it's the seventh most rushing attempts of all time as a rookie. Had an incredible season. Certainly seems like Washington is in safe hands for the near term at a minimum. You never know what injury or something like that

could derail a career, but you couldn't ask for a better situation top to bottom than what Washington is in right now. New ownership, a coach that had success. You outperformed your expectations. Your rookie was more mature beyond his years, and you have a foundation to build upon. When you talk about fantasy football,

I think it's not a debate that Jaden Daniels is five rungs ahead of every other rookie from this past year. The question is just, is he a perennial top five guy to you? Yeah, he is. His nature of just being so unflappable, he doesn't rattle. When things go bad, he just gets up

and he's got the same calm, cool demeanor that you see from successful NFL quarterbacks, just didn't seem to tilt, and he usually has an answer. The fact that he has the super power trump card with his legs and that he's willing to scramble and he's not afraid to use it. It's like Kyler has that, but Kyler's terrified to use it.

He doesn't, it's like that's a break glass in case of emergency, whereas with Jaden Daniels, that's a, if you guys don't guard me right, I'm gone. And so for fantasy purposes, there's no fear. You could argue he should be the number one quarterback drafted next year with an older Josh Allen and him coming into year two, but he'll be in that top, he'll probably be the third quarterback drafted,

definitely be in the top five. Washington has the third most cap available to them. Because it's like, I mean, he did that with Terry McLaurin. Terry McLaurin's a great player. But Terry McLaurin's a little bit older. And if you can get it. You want to talk older? Zach Hertz?

Yeah. I mean, the pieces on this team, imagining that this team being really aggressive and going out and getting a- T. Higgins. Yeah, if Higgins gets to market, but, or just, I'm saying something, a first round wide receiver, a splash and free agency, they can make something happen here.

And just a wild thing of Jaden Daniels of like, his stock went up in a game that he did not play. Like watching the Super Bowl and how Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs struggled against the Philadelphia Eagles, comparing that to the game that just happened where Jaden Daniels was just fine. You're like, that is, it's really, really impressive season

and very optimistic for the future. Third overall pick, Drake May. Eighth overall pick, Michael Pinnix Jr. Tenth overall pick, JJ McCarthy, who looks like will transition right into being the starter. I have my doubts as Sam Darnold is coming back. I mean, what would you handicap it at right now in Minnesota? I have it at about 10%.

Man. I've got it more like 66, 33. I think they're gonna get him. Like that to return? No, 66% that it's J.J. McCarthy, but I think there's a good chance. They're gonna let Sam Darnold test the open market if there's a team out there.

Let's say the Rams end up trading Stafford to the Jets like you know you've seen some rumors out there, and then they want to go after a Darnold and They'll probably pay more than Minnesota is willing to pay, but if if Darnold doesn't find a good market Which he might not a lot of these teams who need quarterbacks are gonna be highly up in the draft They're gonna be drafting one. Well, let's do the experiment. I think it'd be fun. AFC East, the only team that actually could use him,

will never bring him in, because he used to play for them. The Jets, right? Because Drake May is secure. They might be interested. I don't know if Darnold's interested. They can't be interested. They couldn't.

I mean, could you imagine if the New York Jets signed him, and he comes back and he sucks? Yeah, you just can't be interested. They couldn't. I mean, could you imagine if the New York Jets signed him and he comes back and he sucks? Yeah, you just can't do it. I mean, it would just be like- You can't bring a circus in, man. You've got, now the NFL has to, you know- It would be so great. Do what soccer does and have the teams go down.

Oh, relegate them? Yeah. The Raiders are the only team in the AFC West. They're definitely a contender for Sam Darnold. Especially with Pete Carroll there. No time to waste. The AFC North, you'd have the Steelers or the Browns. Those would be two teams that could use a quarterback. And then for the South, you're really looking at the Titans.

Probably nobody else. The Titans have such a high pick. I think if they're going after a quarterback, they should do it in the draft. NFC NFC wise you'd be talking about the Giants Yeah, otherwise no other team in the East NFC West Probably it would be the Rams trading Stafford that'd be it NFC North Nobody they're all set right and then NFC South

Saint seemed committed to Derek Carr Pan Panthers, no, they've already done the darn old experiment as well, and the Falcons and Buccaneers haven't figured out. So yeah, I mean, let them test the waters, see if the Raiders write him a big check and maybe he's got a chance to come back. But of those guys, May, Penix, McCarthy, and I'll throw Bo Nix in now, pick 12, amazing rookie season. If you were kind of putting those guys in order

from a dynasty perspective, just based on what you saw as a rookie, limited work for Pinnix, May, nothing from McCarthy. I mean, I've got Bo Nix ahead of Caleb Williams in dynasty startup ranks. I would much rather have him. I'm sure of the system that's in place and it just feels safe and secure with Sean Payton and what we saw from rookie or Bo Nicks

with again, not a ton of weapons. I do think that Marvin Mims, hopefully Troy Franklin, they've got some good developmental prospects but this wasn't some elite core of wide receivers that he was inheriting. He got more out of Cortland Sutton than we've seen in years. The fact that he uses his legs, runs the system well, Bo Nix to me is obviously very safe. And from fantasy, for fantasy football, very safe because he runs.

These other guys, Pennix and Drake May. Well, Drake, I mean, Drake May actually had what? 10 fewer rushing yards Than bone X. Yeah, he he ran well, but he didn't he didn't throw well, but he didn't have there was anybody Yeah, the Patriots is a full rebuild. So it would be just a do you feel like you saw enough? Composure and enough traits from Drake May that the future could look bright. Because they're very happy. Yeah, I liked what I saw from Drake May.

They're slotted for, like a lot of mock traps have T-Mac going there as the number one wide receiver off the board. So it's like factoring that in. The Patriots are gonna do something. They're not just gonna stamp out with the wide receivers that they have right now. Yeah, yeah, I think Drake May might be the most

slept on of this group in terms of, you know, at least with McCarthy, you know, you can paint the picture. You know, Addison and Jefferson, Kevin O'Connell. I'm bullish on McCarthy. I mean, McCarthy should be able, like you can see the easy case for know Addison and Jefferson, Kevin O'Connell. I'm bullish on McCarthy. I mean, McCarthy should be able, like you can see the easy case for him coming in and being successful. Michael Pinnix, we got to see enough of him.

He's got weapons around him, great running game. You can see him being successful. Bo Nix, we saw have a good year. Drake Mays sitting there in this, like I don't wanna be so afraid of the Patriots offense and system that we ignore what might be coming because of like what you said, the draft capital is going to be there.

They made a move at head coach after one year. And I think Drake May, you know, he's a third pick in the draft. Oh, and he definitely showed a lot of skill. Mike Vrabel, I believe is a very good head coach, but I think he's a very good NFL head coach. He's not the type of head coach you're really, you know, jonesing for in fantasy football. He's going to come in and make sure the defense plays better. You know, not just be a high flying

offense, especially with the personnel they have. He's going to, you know, match how to win ball games with the personnel they have, and I don't know that they've got enough explosive power on offense. It was kind of like when Harbaugh went to the Chargers, we kind of, that took nothing away from Justin Herbert's talent. But you knew he's probably not going to do as much for fantasy. And I feel that same way here, not

to take anything away from Drake May, the player, or the talent. But I think Vrabel coming in is not going to be great for fantasy. The wild thing for Drake May, so his end of season stats, you know, just under 2,300 yards, 15 passing touchdowns, he appeared in 12 games. He pretty much played 10 full games. If you go look at the game log of like, he didn't start at the beginning of the year, fills in a little bit at the end of week three,

then doesn't start two more times, and then you had, and then week eight, 30% of snaps gets knocked out, doesn't play the last game. So in essentially 10 full games, you know, he puts up those numbers of of 2,315 and like Caleb Williams threw 20 touchdowns in an entire season. So it's like dirt. I would, I think it would be foolish to overlook Drake May moving forward. All right, we'll take a break and we'll come back and talk about the rookie running back performances. ["Rookie Running Backs"]

All right, let's talk rookie review at the running back position. This was a down year for rookie running backs. Fewest total touches and yards from scrimmage for rookie running backs over the last decade. It also happened to line up with a year where the aforementioned Henry and Saquon and Jacobs had monster years for teams. Such a weird year. They did not find value in the draft. I mean one of the things in fantasy

football that has been so consistent, I mean it's literally been 12 years in a row. Longer than we've been doing this show, and we've done it a decade, there are always two rookie running backs, or more, sometimes many more, but at least two rookie running backs who finish in the top 24. And so this was the first year that that said goodbye. Yeah, yeah, 12 year run is over.

Bucky almost did it. But the top five running backs drafted, they couldn't get on the field. I mean, Jonathan Brooks, we know the story. Sad story. You see the, and we got a, not an unexpected, but just a, now it's, they're being talked about in media of Jonathan Brooks is likely to miss most of,

if not all of 20-25. It better be all. After a- It better be all. Don't bring him back at the end of a lost season to redo this when you retear your ACL and And it took so long to even get him on the field. So something was up with what do you do with him in?

Dynasties, oh, you know, let's say let's say you lost your rookie year, right? And let's just say he doesn't play a snap this year. So he's out right? He comes into his third year after missing his first two. Is he ever going to be handed the reins to be like, okay, you're the guy, you are our star running back. If there's a way for you to box him up and put him in the attic for a couple of years for your fantasy team. I mean, you can't trade him for anything. So you're just, you're lost. Yeah, it's wild. You made the pick and you're stuck. I mean, but it wasn't only him.

I mean, the first five picks drafted. Jonathan Brooks got the injury, Trey Benson. James Connor was awesome, got an extension, goodbye. Yeah, I mean, Trey Benson's a good player. And if Connor gets hurt, which he does sometimes, Trey Benson will be. Trey Benson's a sensational backup in my opinion. And look, when you're, I guess, just thinking of dynasty

of the way that I look at it is most, it's hard to have three good starting running backs in dynasty. If you have two where you're like every week, except for by weeks, I know that these are my two starters, you're in an okay position, but then it's, you gotta have just a stable of backups because the NFL season is brutal

and backups end up starting for you a lot. So this is not a, it's not the end of Trey Benson. He has value for fantasy. I agree. I think I- Just not as a starter yet. Connor, but to Jason Swinemann, Connor is the leader. Connor got the contract.

Trey Benson will be stuck in a role that no one likes for fantasy unless there's an injury. And then Blake Corum, same boat right now. Kyron's only 24 years old. Kyron was awesome. If he gets an extension, goodbye. The only thing that could disrupt something in Los Angeles would be, you know,

Cooper Cubs going out the door, does Stafford leave? Does that mean that your head coach, is he just, does he want that next quarterback project? Like the Sam Darnold? Is that why he wants, they might wanna make that move to reset the clock? They've got a young defense? Or, you know, could that change the trajectory?

I mean, what's Kyron's contract situation? He's going into year four, so he's eligible, and he's in the final year of his deal. Does he still follow the team on Instagram? I've seen some whispers of an extension coming for Kyron. That would be so great for a dynasty. We saw six carries from Marshawn Lloyd. We basically saw no Marshawn Lloyd all year.

And Josh Jacobs was awesome. And Jaylen Wright, who, you know, explosive, blew up the combine, made us kind of optimistic about his potential, definitely ran at times ahead of Raheem Mostert, who was banged up all year. You know, when you look at that group right there of those five names, you didn't see a ton of them on the field. And then the next man up in the fourth round was Bucky Irving. He was the star

of the rookie class. 2-0-7 for 11-22 and eight as a rookie with 52 targets, 47 catches, a pretty stable offensive situation. I mean, he is the the belle of the ball. Yes, for sure. I mean, he is the bell of the ball. Yes. Oh, for sure. I mean, he is the only rookie that did finish inside the top 24 at the running back 15. The second half of the year, he was one of the best assets in fantasy football, and that was while Rashad White was playing.

Rashad White didn't miss any games. It just became Buc-ee's team, and Rashad White spells him. Rashad White didn't miss any games. It just became Buc-ee's team, and Rashad White spells him a little bit more. And his quick burst was really on display this year. Every time that he had a little opening, he'd be five yards down the field before anyone could catch him. And despite being a small back, broke tackles, it's great.

Usually, I am pounding the table based on historical analysis that fourth round and later draft picks at running back, when they have a great rookie season, they get worse the next year. That is like 82% true. So this is not like a small data sample. This always happens. Bucky will be fine.

Bucky passed all tests. The team is invested in him. I don't think there's going to be a Damien Pierce situation. They don't need to do it. Rashad White is still on the team for a year, and Rashad White has a role. You don't need to replace that yet, where you don't have the concerns of them spending a pick on a

running back who ends up being way better than maybe they drafted him to be. Kind of like Bucky taking the job from Rashad White. I want to go back real quick to Jaylen Wright because it was overall it was a really disappointing year for rookie running backs. Jaylen Wright might be the most disappointing to me. Of the Miami Dolphins, they traded a 20, 25 third to move up to go get Jalen Wright. He has the build, the speed, everything that the Miami Dolphins would want. He ends up with the fewest total yards from scrimmage of any rookie running back with 70 or more touches

over the last decade. It's not like he didn't have any touches. He had 68 attempts on the ground. And then add on top of that, look yeah, of any rookie running back with 70 or more touches over the last decade. It's not like he didn't have any touches. Right. 68 attempts on the ground. And then add on top of that, look, yeah, H-Han's the starter. H-Han is not getting it done on the ground.

And then the other guys, Raheem Mostert, how was Jalen Wright not pulling a Bucky Irving and moving up the depth chart? That one was... Talent? Yeah. I mean, yes. Sorry. But you wouldn't say A-chan's incapable either.

I think it's... It's not that he's incapable, but he was really struggling on the ground and the Miami Dolphins to me looked like, let's try something. Let's get a game of Jalen Wright. Let's see if we can get him going. But clearly the coaching staff saw him for, just they didn't think that he had the chance to do it. I believe his higher carry games did coincide

with the departure of a quarterback. So we know how dysfunctional they were without two. So I'm just bringing it up because it's like if A-chan struggled too. Look, I think it's fair. You should have seen more explosive plays from him even if he wasn't great on every touch. And you had the, we had such a pump fake of week five, he's 13 for 86 on the ground, like

incredibly efficient, that's 6.6 yards per carry, and then they go into the bye week. And it's like, oh, the rookie running back, got on the field, got opportunities, we're going into the bye week, here we go, he's gonna get a role, and then nope, he did not. Yeah, Moster's not getting any younger, so this team may need to pick another one up, which could be a problem.

Impressive players beyond that though. I mean, outside of Bucky, Tyrone Tracy, Ray Davis, undrafted for fantasy, fourth round pick for the Bills. And then Isaac Gurindo had some opportunities this year, but those three names, you know, in that low percentage category of being good, Tracy seems like he'll have an opportunity in the future as a fifth round pick.

He does. You know, Tyrone Tracy is more the Damian Pierce to me, where it's like he looked very good. The team could say to themselves, hey, our running back for this year is kind of solved. We're okay. And not worry about it. I think they will do that, but so did the

Houston Texans did the same thing. They got Joe Mixon the year after. So you had Damian Pierce's rookie season and then there was a lot of excitement for Damian Pierce in his sophomore season. But when it didn't go right for Damian Pierce, the team is not invested, they're not committed, they're going to just keep trying to figure it out. And so then they stopped using Damian Pierce and then in the off season they're not committed, they're gonna just keep trying to figure it out. And so then they stopped using Damian Pearson, then in the off season they're like, let's go get Joe Mixon. So this is one of those things where Tyrone Tracy, if weeks one through four of the 2025 season, he is out there just making great plays,

breaking tackles, looking awesome, great, he'll continue to get work. But as soon as it goes poorly for him, the team's just gonna try to figure out something. And I think that the whole franchise will look very different this off season. Yeah, they could use one of those ball throwers. Mm-hmm. The behind center. I believe Aaron Rodgers is available.

Yeah, yeah, they could. Yeah, he's already in the area. Yeah. All right Wide receivers you guys want to move on and talk about brief overview here Marvin Harrison was the number one off the board in the NFL draft Had Such a disappointing fantasy football season really did crush. It was a brutal. Yeah, I mean this was a guy who was

often drafted in the first round of you know Redraft leagues and while he finished as the wide receiver 28 and had okay stats 885 yards eight touchdowns It wasn't a complete dud of a rookie wide receiver season But based on expectations and and fantasy football draft capital an absolute disaster expectations and and fantasy football draft capital an absolute disaster lack of consistency was a killer for him Seven games with a touchdown where he averaged 16.9 fantasy points per game in those Ten games that he didn't score four point seven fancy points per game. Yeah, that ain't it and

I mean we we watched the tape a lot and It's always hard to really determine this. Whose fault is it? Yeah, I mean, is it the play calling? Cuz there were a lot of dumb routes where he'd run forever before Kyler ever had a chance to throw the ball, he's not even turning around. But there were also too many plays throughout the course of the season that I just saw a flat out lack of effort. I mean, it just seemed like, come back to the ball a little harder.

It just seemed like he was playing at 80%. This was one of those players where you felt like you saw not getting them involved early in the game coming back to haunt you. If you look at the numbers, 69% of his receptions came 10 plus yards down the field where the players we saw have explosive rookie seasons, Malik neighbors, Brian Thomas Jr., those were all 43, 48%.

You didn't get Harrison those easy catches to keep him involved in the game. Now I'm not, you could put the blame on him too. Obviously, you should be given effort on every play. But we know how wide receivers are. If you're not really a part of the game plan, if you seem like, if every week, the coach and the offensive coordinator in the press conference have to explain why you weren't involved again,

there's a breakdown. Like this is the guy you brought in to be your dominator and you're not throwing him an easy slant route or a screen pass or getting him involved so that you don't have games without a touchdown being 4.7 fantasy points per game. That's what we saw on a weekly basis. And that was depressing.

So from a fantasy forecast perspective, it's really, really hard to have the same kind of dynasty excitement for Harrison Jr. as you would neighbors and Brian Thomas. Yeah, that makes it so much worse. Even Zaverworthy. Or Lad McConkey. Next year, it'll be really interesting to see

where Marvin Harrison Jr. goes. I believe that- I'm looking at a best ball right now, wide receiver, 18 at the end of the third. On average. There's upside there. There is upside. As a reminder, Marvin Harrison, senior, 64 catches in his rookie season.

Marvin Harrison, junior, 63 catches. Marvin Harrison, senior, 836 yards. Marvin Harrison, junior, 885 yards. And Marvin Harrison, senior, eight touchdowns. Junior, eight touchdowns. So they had almost identical stats. Check this one out though. Marvin Harrison, junior, 62 8.85 and 8.

Malik Neighbors 109 for 12.04 and 7 on 170 targets. 170 targets as a rook. Wow. But Malik Neighbors will need to navigate new quarterback. He was quick to give Matthew Stafford his flowers over the Super Bowl weekend and talk about the kind of quarterback he wants to bring into New York. New York is talking to Chideur Sanders.

How great is Brian Thomas Jr.? I only say that because you talk about the quarterback play of Malik Nabors. It was bad. But Brian Thomas Jr. played his best ball with Mack Jones. It's not like it's that but Brian Thomas jr. It played his best ball with Mac Jones it's not like it's that much different. Malik neighbors would have loved Mac Jones. He had he had Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones is better than Mac Jones. Malik neighbors with Daniel Jones I mean was slightly better. What number three number five and number six on the week to start the year. I guess that's that's mean 18, 12 and 15 targets and then

the wheels fell off and Daniel Jones was gone. So when you look at that little stretch, I mean he had a three game stretch, he would have been on pace for 255 targets. Yeah, with the 170 targets, you compare that to Brian Thomas only had 133 targets, but Brian Thomas finished ahead of him as the wide receiver four. So I mean, both these players are great. I think people might just be not high enough on Brian Thomas Jr. Because he was drafted behind him. Malik Neighbors, you know, they-

I would- These guys played together in college, and it was Malik Neighbors was the star, and Brian Thomas Jr. was the question mark number two. He was the T Higgins to the Jamar chase neighbors is a better player I agree neighbors is so I would rather have him I think they're so so close though Roman Dunzey didn't have as many opportunities as both of those players but he did have over a hundred targets 734 and three okay you know is going to come down to is Caleb Williams

going to be the guy? Is Ben Johnson going to fix that? And will there be enough volume for Roma-Dunze with DJ Moore is the one there? I mean Brian Thomas, he's the one. Neighbors, the one. Harrison, the one. DJ Moore, the one. Yeah, so that is, look I think Caleb Williams loves Roma Dunze. I think that is a go-to type of receiver for him. But you're gonna need to do more. I mean, when you say he didn't have quite as much opportunity,

I take a little bit of issue with that only because you had Brian Thomas Jr. play 79% of the snaps on the season. You had Roma Dunze play 79% of the snaps on the season. You had Roma Dunsae play 84% of the snaps on the season. He was playing ball. Now he didn't get as many opportunities to catch it, but we talk about it all the time. Targets are an earned stat.

He earned 100 targets, and some of that's gonna be on Caleb Williams, on Shane Waldron, on the, you know, the other wide receiver options, but he was out there as much as all these rookies. So I feel like his disappointing season might be the realest, you know what I'm saying? I think I'll be in on Roman Dune's

as the later round pick. Mike, where is he going in best ball drafts right now? I will find it. I'm gonna guess before you. Yeah, let's try to guess. You wanna guess? will find it. I'm going to guess before you. Let's try to guess. I got it. I'm going to say wide receiver 31.

I started thinking 38, but I think it's going to be higher. I think 28. You're both wrong. Way too low. Wide receiver 26 at the end of the fourth right now. OK. Yeah, that makes me look young. I don't think I'm going to be young.

But this is best ball where it wide receivers go Where's DJ Moore? I mean if you're talking about a fourth rounder for wide receiver 17 at the back of the third Okay, I'd rather have DJ more in the third than Odun's. Oh, yes. I agree with that if they're that close Yeah, but I don't think they'll be that close in redraft at all If they're that close, yeah, but I don't think they'll be that close in redraft at all Yeah, no, I think home leagues Rome will go later But the Rome is a physical force and I think it's gonna come down to Kayla, but I actually like him Saver worthy had the great finish to the season 59 for 638 and 6 in the regular season You know they used him in

In evolving role. Yeah, he started cooking at the end. He was the 28th pick in the draft, so it's a first round wide receiver. Ricky Pearsall we saw a little bit. Xavier LeGette, we kept trying to start as a flex player when opportunities were there. He ended up with under 500 yards receiving as a rookie.

Keon Coleman, you know, for the 33rd pick in the draft, it was just 29 receptions. Woof. But for 556 yards and four touchdowns. Yeah. Lad McConkey was 82 for 1149. My little lad. Coleman and LeGette are,

those numbers are very concerning. We've had on the Dynasty podcast, we've had the Jalen McMillan versus Kion Coleman debate. Obviously the draft capital of Kion Coleman is great, but the breakout at the end of the year of Jalen McMillan makes you go, okay, could he actually be the better rookie wide receiver this year? Because you really had a dud from Coleman. I think I would still be the Coleman side. Coleman missed some time injured. They brought in Amari Cooper who was irrelevant. You kind of have some

journeymen there right now, right? Mac Hollins, catching passes, Curtis Samuel. There seems like, it seems like Keon Coleman's sophomore season will have at least a puncher's chance of being a breakout season. Yeah, for sure he's got a small chance. A puncher's chance. But they, I mean. I mean like a 10, I would say like 1,010 seems doable.

Yeah, as his ceiling. 1,010 would be a great year for him, I think. I'll be curious where we end up ranking him. And the redraft for the. And the Buffalo Bills Me do what do they do at the wide receiver position? I think they will Even though they just spent a second on on Coleman. I think they got to do something else, too Yeah, I mean you you saw with the Chiefs they would spend every year. It's like they're they're trying to take their shot whether it was

You know getting trading for bringing in Kadari's Tony or getting Sky Moore. It's like they just kept then Rushy Rice, then Xavier Worthy. But Xavier Worthy is the name we really need to bring up because that one is interesting. He is going to go very high, I think, in next year's draft based on what he did in the playoffs, based on being a chief. I mean, this is a young kid who is always produced at every level, drafted in the first round, ended the season, you know, really important to the offense. And so some people will be very excited for a leap forward. They're hoping he's the next Tyree Kill, right? He has that speed. He has that connection, a great offensive mind and quarterback.

Can he develop into that? Can he become, you know, of all these guys, like Keon Coleman's not going to become a fantasy superstar. I don't see that happening. I don't think he is either. Jalen McMillan's not going to become a fantasy superstar. There is a route, a path at least, for Xavier Worthy to become, to level up to become one of those wide receiver ones that you're drafting in the first or second round in the future because

he's dominating on the field. How do I simultaneously disagree and agree? I mean, that's what Xavier Worthy is because I disagree with what I said, but I see the path. I don't see the path to that kind of a ceiling, but I see the path then being the number one receiver for the Chiefs, even with the return of Rushie Rice. I see a world where Xavier Worthy is scoring the most fantasy points of any pass catcher on the team because of the fact that they can use him in so many different ways.

And unfortunately I see a path where Rice comes back and Worthy is unworthy and consequential. I don't see that't, yeah. Inconsequential. I don't see that anymore with worthy. I still do, but the numbers, I know they took the shots, so maybe if a few of those, the big time downfield throws actually hit this past season, you'd feel different. Cause like what happened in the Super Bowl,

like was that his first big catch No, but I mean he was on he was his longest catch of the season 54 What if 54 yards and other than that though? It's like 20 35, but I'm so like Consistently in in his game logs. It's 19 yards 19 the big plays 1921 when they 21. When he was really involved there at the end and he was making money for fantasy, long of 12, long of 19, these are not huge plays. But those are the areas where Rashi Rice

is gonna be very good on the interior part of the offense. I think Xavier Worthy, what you saw in the last six games of the season, you know, he was on 142 target pace, it was a lot of short area stuff, but the targets just kept going up and up. I think you can use him in different ways when Rasheed's out on the field and, you know, Kelsey's, he's gonna disappear from this offense. Yeah, and Worthy was too good as a

rookie. Man, Worthy is... So maybe we'll just... It's so strange to be to I don't disagree that he could become great but it to have such a wide range of outcomes where you can go you could be a top 15 fantasy wide receiver or you could be nothing which is how I view him is that's very difficult to handle yeah you know who's not gonna be nothing lad mcconkey oh that's so good I mean he finishes the wide receiver 12 So such a good route runner reliable hands great quarterback. I still kind of in pessimistic that He will not be the one for this team like they still are looking for their wide receiver one their alpha You know to steal a Josh Jacobs line here. Like he's a good receiver,

but I think they want a proven alpha wide receiver one. But I just wanted to give another shout out to Lad because he was so talented. Lad deserves it, he had a great season. You could see an offense if it's predicated on a great running game and some other peripheral wide receiver options where he could still be the fantasy leader for the team.

I think that's possible there. I mean, Keenan Allen with Herbert for the last couple years was just, it's just the guy who's always in the right spot. He's like, you're going to create separation and catch it when I laser beam you the ball. That's what Keenan Allen did over and over and over. And that's what Ladd did, so maybe it will stick.

It's to you, you're Almanra. did, so maybe it will stick. It's the Amun Ra. Right! What was Amun Ra's yards per catch? Let me go find him. Because I mean, you talk about what Keenan Allen did. Allen's last three seasons with the Chargers, with Justin Herbert, 10.7, 11.4, 11.5. Ladd's at 14.

And Amun Ra was at 11. A lot of that was yards after the catch stuff. But I mean, he also, interior parts of the field, was not afraid to go over the middle. No, which he maybe should be a little bit more afraid. He was limping a lot. He was beat up a lot. That's the only knock I have against McConkie

is he's 185 pounds. Yeah, Amon Ra's 200 pounds. And he's fearless. And I think he should have a little more fear. Yeah, let's take another- Creatine. Take a quick break, and we'll be back Okay, so to tight in wise Brock Barrett is pretty decent

Yeah You guys like you like what he did as a rookie halfway through the season and maybe after one week Of the season you're like He's the best pass catching tight end in the national football league He was everything that you expected him to do everything he was for multiple years in college You can't give enough flowers to How talented he is? He will be the number one tight end drafted this year. He'll be the number one tight end in dynasty.

I believe he is worth as high as the fourth overall pick in startup drafts for dynasty, a difference maker for a long time period. And so, goodness gracious, I mean, he is that guy. I think I just finished talking about the rookie tight ends. Yeah, from what we saw in the field, opportunity-wise, because tight ends generally take a while to get cooking, you do have a second round tight end and Ben... I am the Senate. Senate? The Senator, baby!

Who second round tight end, you saw the tight end position succeed for Washington. Zach Ertz is a free agent and ancient? A free ancient. Oh, a free ancient! He's a free ancient. That's nice. And we need him to just,

Zach Ertz, your career has been incredible. Like, he's not a Hall of Fame guy, Your career has been incredible. He's not a Hall of Fame guy, but a truly incredible career. Made a ton of cash. Don't sully our memories. And look, live for your family, man. Just be around and let the Senator go to work. Mike would like nothing more in this life

than Ben Sennett to take over next year in Washington. You already know the quarterback's in good shape. We had a little bit of opportunity for Jatavian Sanders and Theo Johnson this year. They showed flashes. There was a little stretch for the Carolina Panthers, tight end Jatavian Sanders. More interested in Sanders than Theo. Well, Theo was looking good, but he he went on IR, got injured. I mean, it was just like the Truth of Tight End episode. The Truth of Tight End episode was,

there are very, very few elite guys. Get one, or just wait, because the rest all suck. I guess before Theo went down for injury, things were trending up for him. I want to I am struggling to find the drop here we go I know we're running we're running low on time but I want to circle back to wide receivers okay because there's so there are so many names at wide receiver I have like five more minutes on Ben Sennett.

I'm sorry, we are back at wide receivers. I'm going to read you a name, and you're going to tell me if they ever have a fantasy relevant season. This is the game. Okay, all right, this is fun. So, fantasy relevant being like wide receiver 36, or better, right?

Top 40. Okay, all right. or better, right? Top 40. Okay, all right. Top 40's relevant. Yeah, do they ever have a top 40 season for their entire careers? Okay, okay. Are you guys ready? Yeah, just say the name.

No, no, no, I'm gonna ease you in a little bit. Xavier LeGette. No. I guess I didn't ease you in at all. Yeah, I'm gonna go no. So you said no. Okay, you said no. Ricky Pearsall.

Yes. Yes. Okay. Jalen Polk. No, no. Second round wide receiver. No. Second round wide receiver, Adonai Mitchell. No.

Third round wide receiver, Malachi Corley. No. No. Third round wide receiver, Jermaine Burton. You had the world in your hands, dude. Oh man.

It was there. And then he just. And he punted it off the bridge. He just peed. Is that a no? That's a no. All the way. Third round wide receiver, Roman Wilson of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

I want to say yes. I want to say yes. Hey, back your guys, it's fine. I think he will, I think he'll be a relevant Christian Kirk type player someday. I'll say no. Luke McCaffrey for Washington. No. I will say probably not.

Fourth round wide receivers, I'll give you the names real quick, Troy Franklin. Yeah baby, of course. You're darn right he will. Now is that a real answer? Do you wanna know why? Because it's Franklin. Hey, it's Frank.

You have the button. Yeah, you're done right. Do I really believe he'll be a top 40 wide receiver? No, I do not. Mike? I think you, I think so, yeah. Oh, I'm back in. Javon Baker.

Yeah, Mike is the Franklin truther. Javon Baker? No. Okay. Malik Washington is the Franklin truther. Javon Baker? No. Okay. Malik Washington in the sixth round for Miami? Yes. I'm gonna say no. There's at least one more name that.

I like Malik. Could be a top 40 this coming season, I think. What's that name? Jordan Whittington for the Los Angeles Rams with the 2-2 Atwell. My Dino team likes hearing that. Cooper Cup being gone. You see why I wanted to circle back.

There's a lot, I mean, the wide receiver list, it's long. Yeah, and to give. And a lot of those guys I read, I mean, that was all third, second, third, and fourth round picks. Yeah, to give the foot clearing kind of an early heads up, we'll have all sorts of rookie preview, not review shows, talking about the incoming draft class. But this really does seem like the pendulum swinging completely the

other way. So far, it's very, very early. We don't know draft capital, and I haven't even finished scouting all the wide receivers. But the running back draft class seems very strong. I think there might be six guys in this class that I like better than my favorite of last year. The might be six guys in this class that I like better than my favorite of last year. The top is very good in this year's draft class. And so far on wide receivers, I am very meh. I mean, you got one stud that seems like a layup. And then-

T-Mac? Yeah, T-Mac looks great. and then the rest have their questions. Yeah, Kyle just said there's only right now for mock drafts, right now it's four wide receivers in the first round, which is low. So that's with probably Burden, the third in the first round? Oh yeah, Luther will be a first. And then what a villain name. Amica. Luther. Burden. Burden? He's a, like you got Lex Luther, you got the,

he's a burden, and then it's like, he's generationally. LB3. Yeah. Ooh. I'm trying to lose about three LBs. Every day. Every day? For a month.

LB3's the hardest one to lose. You know, I can get down two, but when I try to get LB3, it's right back. Yeah, I like Matthew Golden out of Texas too, Kyle. I see that's the last name in there. Egbuka, Burden, Goldman, and Tatt. The wide receiver class could prove us wrong, but right now it is.

All right, that is going to do it for today's show. We are mock drafting the top 12 picks of 2025. That's right, On Thursday, mock drafting those first 12 names. That should be a lot of fun. Take care. Goodbye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the fantasy footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on join the foot.com and follow us on Twitter at the FF ballers.