Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast - Rookie WR Expectations + Trade Respect - Fantasy Football Podcast for 7/6

Episode Date: July 6, 2024

Which rookie WR is the best value in 2024 fantasy football drafts? On today’s podcast, Andy, Mike, and Jason pick their favorite rookies to target and tons more! How long should managers have to reply to a trade? When should you draft with your gut over rankings? Tank Dell, Jalen Hurts, Marvin Harrison, and many other players discussed! Manage your redraft, keeper, and dynasty fantasy football teams with the #1 fantasy football podcast. -- Fantasy Football Podcast for July 6th, 2024. Intro - 0:00:00 Giants on Hard Knocks - 0:03:30 Rookie WR Expectations - 0:08:55  Mailbag! - 0:19:55  Full PPR, 3WR Format - 0:21:35  Dynasty: Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert - 0:24:35  Trade Tank Dell? - 0:26:15  Gut Feelings - 0:29:55 Waiting For a Trade Response - 0:32:15  New Kickoff Rules - 0:38:30  Jalen Hurts without Jason Kelce - 0:44:35  2024 ULTIMATE DRAFT KIT is available now at UltimateDraftKit.com Connect with the show: Subscribe on YouTube Visit us on the Web Support the Show Follow on X Follow on Instagram Join our Discord Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Monopoly is back at McDonald's, everybody. This is an alert. It's time to get back to Mickey D's. Monopoly Double Play is back at McDonald's, and it's easy to get into the win. First, you peel on pack, and then again in the app. There are millions of prizes to be won,

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Skills they want to share to make you a nightmare for the rest of your league. Head over to www.ultimatedraftkick.com and order it right now. You will be prepared for your draft. Your league will be frightened of you and you will kill them. Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright. Welcome in! The Fantasy Footballers Saturday episode of the show. Saturday! Saturday! We are into July, which means three shows a week

until we flip that dangerous switch to five a week, starting in August through the end of the football season. Any special routines, preparation, hydration- H. Related things that you do to get ready for five shows a week? Yeah. What did you say? H.

Preparation H. Oh. Oh. So you're not quite in regular season form yeah no yeah he's he's working up to it i thought you meant hgh like you you do a little human growth hormone i mean i do that i do that too but i also just make sure that things are taken care of right i mean you definitely want to make sure that you are prepared. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you know how much I'm on the couch in football season? Let me show the watchers of the show over here on YouTube how many people are sitting over in Deucer's Alley. We got one. Yeah, we just got one bald guy. And look, would we prefer a dude with hair producing the show yeah yeah yeah i would but we don't have that option today we got papa josh in the building and you know what we'll take it yeah that's fine i do think that you bring up a really good idea for the show

which is to get several wigs and then we pick what papa josh looks like for each show maybe he could be a punk rock maybe he's emo um you know i think we should wow we should be in charge of capping papa josh papa josh have you ever considered to be a uh toupee man no man dad what happened when you considered it when you were losing it did you have was this just like quick all right or was it like oh no it actually started in my like early to mid-20s and that's when i just went like okay well i'm just going bald so i'm gonna embrace it good for you man i mean he has his head it's pretty good for the bald head you know what i mean like some people it's all right maybe it doesn't work out for yeah i don't think it's gonna work well for me i'm I don't think it's going to work well for me. I'm a hat guy. You've been wanting to be a bald guy for a while.

I just, I'm not wanting, but, um, knowing, uh, we have a mailbag episode today, answering a ton of fantasy football questions to help you,

uh, set yourself up for the draft season. And guys, I know the off season edition of the Hard Knocks with the Giants recently came out with their first episode. I enjoyed it very much. Tell me the takeaway that you shared with the Foot Clan on the footcast. Yes.

So my number one takeaway was that this is a group of people that I could do this job. That there is no secret. It doesn't seem like there is any sort of extra education that they have gone through. I mean, they've worked in the business. A couple things. One. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, I mean, one, this is the Giants. So let's not judge that against every other team. Okay, two yes i was with you i thought there might be a a different way that they would talk about players and you made this point when we were talking about this earlier they don't they talk the same way we talk it was like i mean it might have it might as well been an episode of the show where it was like well you, you know, if they don't keep Barkley, like Devin Singletary's out there and Joe Mixon's out there and Josh Jacobs is out there, like we can find a guy. Yep.

I mean, that's how I manage my team. And they broke everything down, talking about the value of what their expected salary will be if they hit the free market. You had the decision of, okay, well, we're going to let Saquon test free agency. And then you had the director of player personnel is like, well, what's the identity of our team then? And you're like, yeah, how are we going to score on offense?

It's literally like one of the things they said. So it was, I enjoyed it. It made me very hopeful because the thing I want the most is draft footage. I want to be in the war room while decisions are being made. Like, do they, like when we get to it, is it all, they're just sitting there looking at Malik neighbors, like it just counting down the draft slots until they're up to the get him. Or is it really a, okay, JJ McCarthy is here.

We could reboot our quarterback. Or, you know what I mean? Because that will change, I guess, a little bit how you think about players. But it's also just so fun to actually get inside of all that scheming and planning. It was really interesting to watch. It parallels a lot of the way we talk about players and breaks break things down in a subjective unpredictable sport where you're an expert only so much as nobody knows what's going to happen just as much as you guess right correct that's all it is it's like i i think that these teams they all film the entire process of these drafts,

and they can't wait for one of the drafts to go perfect, and then they'll release the footage. You know, it's like they're waiting for one of these teams to get a perfect draft, and then they'll be like, look how it happened. Well, I mean, they're all perfect right now. That's the common, and that'll be your situation. But now is why it's really hard to release the tape, because you could be excited about this player

on record. And then like next year you're like oh man, we showed how excited we were for this bum. Yeah, it's funny because there was just a small clip where they were, some guys in the office, talking about the Super Bowl and it's who you got. I'm like, oh yeah, who's the dummy? Who's the dummy who got this one wrong?

Yeah, I mean because we are quick to find the footage. I mean, I i just saw i think it was uh colin coward they found the clip of him talking about how lebron like when ben simmons got drafted and how like lebron can go now that like i didn't feel this way about magic i didn't feel this way about bird or whoever he said he goes ben simmons is the future of the nba and lebron you can go away now. That is a take. That's a take, ain't it? Wow. Obviously, thankfully, you're listening to this podcast, and we have, so far, 10 years,

we haven't really missed. Yeah, we get it all right. We guess right, and we've never whiffed. If you get it right every time, is it a guess? Good point. We answer facts. Speaking of which, look, the Ultimate Draft Kit, the draft analyzer available right now,

ultimatedraftkit.com. If you get the UDK Plus, you can go import your team, get a draft grade, get a breakdown, every position, where you're strong, where you're weak. Our favorite players will even tell you which of the three of us your team aligns with more philosophically, which is always

funny when we draft teams and then we put it in there and it's like in most of the time it is like a team that is reflected it's like andy likes your team the most i'm like thank goodness but occasionally it'll be one of the other ones and you're like that feels weird i didn't mean to draft a jason team you my we just did the mock and mine was an Andy team. Good job. You're finally making the changes you needed to make. That's probably why it was a B+. I'm so proud of you. And not a day. Oh, it was just a B+.

I'm a B-plus guy. That's pretty much what my high school stuff was. Like, if I got a B+, that was fine. I mean, you'd be happy with that, right? Yeah. I'd be happy with that because I didn't do any homework. If you go through life with too high a grade,'s looking at you too low can't do nothing b plus aim for the sky no it's not the stars no aim for the sky okay uh quick question from youtube which rookie wide receiver will be the best return on investment this year and And part of this question is because maybe the listeners don't realize this. Malik

Neighbors, currently, his current average draft position is the highest ever for any rookie wide receiver, ever, of all time. No one has ever been drafted as high as Malik Neighbors. And it doesn't even feel remotely high. which is explain where it is yeah he's he's at the 402 right now is the wide receiver 20 that's Malik neighbors and that's like I mean that's left for dead because Marvin Harrison Jr. is going at the end of the first the top of the second he's at the 201 right now as the ninth wide receiver selected so I mean he's obliterating the highest ever drafted rookie but there's a lot of rookie wide receivers in this draft class this was supposed to be a really deep uh class so it's like okay if you don't draft either the highest or the

other highest uh ever drafted rookie what rookie wide receivers are worthy of their ADP right now? It's funny because I think Marvin Harrison is a fair answer for this question. I genuinely do. I mean, I guess the question is best return on investment, so maybe not. But I think he will return on the investment. It's probably not the best return. He would have to jump up. I mean, he would have to finish.

No, you're right. He's being drafted at the wide receiver nine, so you would have to jump up. I mean, he would have to finish. No, you're right. He's being drafted at the wide receiver nine. You're right. He would have to jump up into almost top five. But just to lay out where the other ADPs are, Roma Dunzey in the late sixth, Xavier Worthy in the seventh, Ladd McConkie in the eighth, Brian Thomas in the eleventh, Keon Coleman in the ninth.

Those two are my answer. Brian Thomas and Keon Coleman, they're almost right next to each other, end of the eighth, early ninth. I think both of those players are in contention for me. I like Brian Thomas a ton, and I think Keon Coleman just has it. Keon Coleman has like a Marvin Harrison Jr. light situation going for him. Harrison is being drafted where he's being drafted because elite quarterback playing Kyler Murray and no one on the depth chart Buffalo has no one on the depth chart and Josh Allen and yet Marvin's a second round pick at the top of the second or the late first Keanu Coleman's a

ninth round pick so to me that that gives you an opportunity the the opportunity is there for Coleman to get on the field and make a difference he has not yet capitalized that if you're if you're reading the reports and how he's coming along there's a lot to learn we hope he can learn this position or that position he's going to need to earn his way on the field my answer for this question is another one where you know you talk about oh it's it's a Marvin Harrison light This is the same thing with Ladd-McConkie. Ladd-McConkie finds his way to being the number one wide receiver, I believe, for a great... Justin Herbert is a fantastic quarterback. So Ladd-McConkie is sitting there as the wide receiver 41 in drafts right now. Can you imagine Justin Herbert? I know they're

going to run the ball more, but can you imagine Justin Herbert's number one wide receiver? And maybe it's not lad. Maybe huge Quinton Johnston steps up or maybe Joshua Palmer is better than we think. But whoever it is, I can't fathom them being wide receiver 41 or under. The first 14 weeks, and obviously Keenan Allen is a goat, but the first 14 weeks and obviously Keenan Allen is is is a goat uh but the first 14 weeks last year he was the wide receiver three it went Tyreek Hill, CeeDee Lamb, and then Keenan Allen yeah I mean if you drafted an outside wide receiver to the Chargers and it was a pass from

the offense I think we'd be having a different conversation but I mean Ladd-McConkie being a slot receiver like Like Keenan? Yeah, but that's not a good one for me. An all-timer slot-wide receiver comparison with Ladd-McConkie, unproven rookie, is not a fair comparison. I think what I love... Because we've been here before. We've been here with Wes Welker.

Oh my gosh, it's this guy, it's this guy. No, it wasn't. It was none of them in New England. Nobody replaces elite. Julian Edelman did. Not really. It took time, and it wasn't the same situation. Yeah, the great part about drafting Ladd McConkie, in my opinion,

is that he is awesome. Like, that's he. His film is great. I think he is a talented watcher. And the reports. Unlike Coleman they're talking about, he's got a lot to learn. Yeah, they're just different. He's got to pick it up. Ladd, they're literally saying he's got a lot to learn he's got he's got

to pick it up lad they're literally saying he understands the playbook already he knows it he's he's the number one target in most practices that have been open to reporters and so I I think he's gonna be the one you know really early in his career and you know me and you we love lad coming out I think the player is gonna be better for the team than the production. I don't like to say that. I would love to be back in the bandwagon. I just have a hesitancy, and I hope I'm proven wrong. I get it because Hunter Renfro is a really good wide receiver,

and even though he had one, he actually finished as a wide receiver once. I think the wide receiver 12 a couple years ago. That wasn't his normal because the role that Ladd will probably find himself in isn't usually the one that you dominate for fantasy, but you certainly are above the wide receiver 41. I think he'll return on his ADP. That seems fair. Mike, what about you? For me, it's between Ladd and Brian Thomas because I think that they at least have the opportunity to become the number one on their team like where Xavier Worthy you know drafted by the Kansas City Chiefs

in the first round if if he hits his ceiling will be higher than those other two guys just because of of what he would mean to the Kansas City Chiefs offense if they can find their way back to really getting the ball down the field. But Ladd's path is easy, and Brian Thomas – look, Christian Kirk is a great wide receiver, but in terms of talking just actual ceiling if it's hit, Brian Thomas I could take over. I'm not projecting it, so I lean Ladd for this conversation, but Brian Thomas would be my second pick.

Okay, and you're more hesitant about Keon Coleman? I am. I really think that Curtis Samuel will end up being the number one wide receiver. And how does Dalton Kincaid factor into everything? So I think that Coleman has a ways to go. All right, we're going to take a quick break and come back with your mailbag questions. Just to put a ball on the rookie wide receiver discussion

or maybe extend it momentarily, it is interesting to look back at whether it was Chase, Brandon Cooks, Amari Cooper. There haven't been a lot of rookies drafted highly, but there have been mistakes made by the fantasy community in not doing so. The Jamar Chase discussion is a really really really big one right high draft capital you know question marks around the the limited information we have in the offseason he drops the pass and camp the world is falling apart and within about four

seconds of the you know when the season started it was like oh no why did he go why was he a six round pick and not a first round pick marvin har Harrison's ADP to me is a direct result of the fantasy community saying, well, I'm going to learn my lesson on Jamar, but then you keep drafting him higher. And then it's like, well, no, I learned my lesson. I learned it way better than you, so I'm going to take him even earlier. And now Marvin, as confident as I am in him that ADP is it still is scary Marvin Harrison cannot fail Marvin Harrison cannot Marvin Harrison will not fail and cannot fail and can absolutely be a disappointment at his current draft cost fair he's going to be a great rookie

wide receiver he's going to be the number one for the Cardinals and he's very talented this is not going to be a guy who has a bust of a career however if you had I think his line right now on on most sports books is about a thousand receiving yards it's like I haven't looked at him in a long time but um like a month ago it was like a thousand point five was his line I mean 10 50 yeah okay so it's it's gone up to 10 50 mean, if he finishes the season with 10-50 and you're drafting him at the 1-2 turn, that's a great rookie season, and you're going to be really down on his fantasy production.

Yeah, it'll be interesting in Arizona. That puts him at wide receiver nine, by the way, on the draft board. And if you were putting down all your money on one side of wide receiver nine or the other i'd put it on the under you'd put it on the under yeah even with injury insurance what do you mean with injury oh i'm just saying you don't get you don't get screwed out of your money with injury it's just production yeah i'll take i'll take the the over on a thousand yards and the under on being a wide receiver nine or better.

I would bet that he'll be better, but it'll be fun to watch. Now, Neighbors is the wide receiver 20, Odunze wide receiver 32, and those three guys, I'm going to put them all in the same group, McConkie, Brian Thomas, and Coleman, all have opportunities from the jump. All three of those guys from the first week of the season, I think it's unlikely you end up just saying, yeah, that's an eighth-round pick in fantasy. You probably know something more about them. It's just the gamble or how much time it takes.

But rookie wide receivers with opportunity, you see flashes right away. Do you think? Adonai Mitchell is interesting too in the late 10th with the opportunity he'll have. You guys are, I think every 15 minutes your watch goes off, you have to say something nice about Anthony Richardson. I just drafted him again. Yeah, I'm sure.

Right now. That's been the most popular thing I've seen right now in fantasy is to tweet about how high you think Anthony Richardson will finish. It's like, I can beat you. He's top three. Nah, he's top two. He's number one. He's going to be the number one fantasy guy.

Still feel the same confidence with him. Yeah, I'm happy to have him as my sole and only quarterback going into the season. I'm extremely confident that he will be great for fantasy football. Is there a world, real quick on Ladd McConkie, is there a world where you think that in two wide receiver sets, he can push Quentin Johnston off the field? I don't think so.

Probably not. It's probably going to be Palmer. Yeah, that's what I think. Palmer right now, it would be in two wide. Well, Chark is there too, so I don't think there's any chance McConkie's getting outside. Okay. And it's a good thing to bring up because you would anticipate

that they will have a lot of two wide receiver sets with the new high T methodology coming over. All right, let's jump into the mailbag. Mailbag. Mailbag. Alright, if you have a question for the show, you can go to the website, TheFantasyFootballers.com. A lot of great off-season articles coming out right now by a newly reinforced writing staff. So, shout out to all the brand new writers

on the writing staff. It's like a fresh dollar bill, like newly minted. It's just you get it and you're like, oof. Smells like the vault. Yeah. We have our annual Path to a Wide Receiver 1 series that's rolling out. Highly recommend it. Any of you have the grandparents that always gave you the card with the fresh bills in it? I had a great aunt that always gave me a $2 bill.

You still have them? No. Ice cream truck rolled by. That's a true story, man. And the guy who took your money didn't say, now kid, this is a $2 bill that in the future is going to be worth way more than $2. I bought my street.

I thought I had other money, and I didn't. I remember this story. And I bought my street, this stuff, and I had to grab the $2 bills from my bottom sock drawer. And pay for the ice cream. I paid for it. A round of ice cream for the street? And then I went inside, and I broke down crying

because it was like, what have I done? And I think my parents caught him at the end of the street. And saved him? And saved him. Oh. Yeah. All right, if you have a question for the show, go parents caught him at the end of the street. And saved him? And saved him. Oh. Yeah. All right, if you have a question for the show,

go to the website, thefantasyfootballers.com, click that submit a question button, or you can dial our voicemail hotline, 302-464-TFFB. Here we go. Yo, what up, fantasy footballers? This is Brian from San Diego. My question is, what is your overall opinion of three wide receiver full PPR leagues? Thanks, guys. Love the show.

I think it's a great format. It's not my preference. Full opinion on leagues where you start three wide receivers and it's full PPR. Draft wide receivers. This is the perfect format for a zero rb or a hero hero rb because you're really with with three wide and you probably have at least a flex you want those things jam-packed with as many elite wide receivers as you can get the reason i love half ppr is because usually when you're let's say it's two wide receiver, two running back and a flex. The flex is pretty much equal for most situations between a running back and a, and a wide receiver. The, when you

get to like the, the running back 25, the wide receiver 25 and half PPR, they're near each other. When you switch to full PPR, it's not, it's all, it should almost, it should usually be a wide receiver. That's going to be in that slot. Now if your roster starts three wide receivers plus that flex, you just load up on wide receivers. Yeah, I mean, I think the format's fine as well. I mean, I've seen some criticism when we've done mock draft episodes that we're not doing like 50 wide receivers and 30 flexes. I would.

And drafting with like everybody in the studio live. Like I don't think you guys understand how this show would go if you had nine other individuals having to think about and then make a draft pick we have done it with the deuces before i'm sure we'll do another one with them involved where they're present where we can badger them into making the pick quickly yeah the problem there is you know that you don't want to to do mock drafts on this show where one person has no idea what they're doing you know what i mean and just making the most egregious picks yeah and so when the when the deuces come in i mean it's just like

that's the problem that's the problem i see you turned it on to them really quick yes i did um drive that bus but yeah mean, three wide receiver. I mean, our main league of record is a double flex league. So if you want an extra position or two in that lineup, you want to kick out the kickers and defenses while you massage that into place, we're all in favor of that. I think that's a more entertaining, fun league is to get rid of the kicker position and put in another flex. That's what we did.

Yeah, I would rather play in a two-wide receiver, two-running back, two flex than three-wide receiver, two-running back. Now, there is one unspoken, we haven't mentioned it, one big benefit of the full PPR lead. Do you remember? Oh, it's actually a legit one, too. Yeah, when you're watching games, anytime your dude catches the ball point you just point point yeah it's and you can point while you do it i recommend it it's it is it is invigorating

instagram question from ethan would you rather have kyler murray or justin herbert in a dynasty league uh it looks like yo like our dynasty rankings are in the UDK+. You can go see them right now. These guys are back-to-back for myself and I believe Mike. It is not as close for Jason, but that is simply because he has Kyler even higher. I'm on the Kyler side. Jason, you're on the Kyler side.

Yeah, I love mobile rushing quarterbacks, and there's very few guys that can rush for 600 yards and pass for 4,000 yards. When those two things happen in the same season, you break fantasy. You know, Kyler is still young. Both these guys are young. Yeah, age is not a factor. They're the same.

And both are good quarterbacks. But for fantasy football purposes, I'm going to take the mobile rushing guy. Yeah. Yeah. If you had to put money on who has a top three season over the next three years, I think it's on Kyler. Yeah. Just because of the – what would have to happen for Herbert is so outlier

that it's just more likely for Murray. Like, Herbert has to throw 40-plus touchdowns, right? And to get into that mix, and Kyler just doesn't have to do that. I mean, obviously we have seen it with Herbert once before. He was the quarterback two in his sophomore season when he did throw for 38 touchdowns, ran for three more, so over 40 total touchdowns. That's what it's going to take for him to do it.

You don't anticipate that happening when you lose Keenan, you lose Mike Williams, and then you go high-T run the ball mode. All right, let's jump into another voicemail question here. What's going on, ballers? This is Chance from Wilmington, North Carolina. This is a two-parter. Should I be trying to move Tank Dell to see what I can get? And also, why doesn't Jason switch to turkey dogs?

They're just as delicious. They might split and burn when you get them on the grill, but they're just as good. Let me know. Thanks. Goodbye. Okay. There's a lot to unpack.

A lot to unpack here. Chance from Wilmington. Wilmington, be careful. But, I mean, we're in agreement that that was Casey Kasem. Oh, maybe. This is Casey Kasem. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, that was frightening. Top 40 American hits. Look, I think that this question is actually really well laid out because- Which part? The turkey dogs? is actually really well laid out because trading Tank Dell right now is akin to switching to Turkey Dogs. It's just stupid. It's just not what you want to do.

Okay. So Tank Dell right now is an average draft price, which is really what you're going to be. It's a great marker for how people are valued right now. Obviously, that's where they're being drafted. Right now, Tank Dell is the third of the three Texans wide receivers. So, you know, if you're trying to shop him around, I don't know that he's going to bring you the haul. I personally think he's going to be the number one target on the Texans this coming season. So I just don't feel like you're trading high.

And then switching to Turkey Dogs. He means number one behind Nico. Yeah. I was just, I mean, in targets. Behind Nico. No. I'm just joking. That's a real Turkey Dog opinion.

Is that our new thing? At least for this question. Turkey Dogging is, I mean, that's a phrase to describe doing kind of like not the best thing, but like an alternative that works. Have you ever had a turkey dog? Yeah, I've had a turkey dog. I've had a turkey burger. You've had a turkey burger?

I don't think I've had a turkey dog. Yeah, you know what? Turkey burgering is also akin to the same thing. Yeah, and the reason why I'm- It's settling for an inferior alternate. can yeah it can work maybe for your long-term health but nothing else yeah i mean look if you put a burger two burgers right there in front of me and one of these is a nice ground chuck and the other is a turkey you're not fooling me you know what i mean i'm not gonna go ahead blindfold away one bite of each and you will clearly know when you're eating fooling me you know what i mean i'm not gonna go ahead blindfold away one bite of

each and you will clearly know when you're eating the meal it's like the pepsi challenge oh if jason accidentally didn't pick yeah him it would be impossible he says impossible we got to make this happen if it wasn't impossible if it wasn't impossible, he'd be eating turkey burgers. Now, I will have to plug your nose and blindfold you. No, you can't plug the nose. That's part of taste. Now, Brooks is weighing in. He says turkey taco meat is good, too. No, it's not.

What? Well, I will say this in his defense. Turkey taco meat is much, it is, you can get closer. Because I don't know if you guys personally cook your taco meat. I do. Usually. It takes, I mean, you don't. I don't know if you guys personally cook your taco meat. I do. Usually. I don't eat it raw. That's what I thought we were talking about.

I'm saying, like, when you make tacos at home, are you the one? Or the chef. Are you the chef? Because, I mean, you take those taco packets, those seasonings, it's one packet per pound, and when you put that packet on there, you're like oh my lanta there's gone yeah there's so much seasoning so it's like okay if you're if you're putting that much seasoning on turkey you know gussy it up did we settle the questions there

i think we did hand okay uh let's go ahead and go to a youtube question when did you decide to use uh to draft using your gut when do you oh goodness i thought he was making an accusation that he's saying why'd you switch to your gut um when do you decide to draft using your gut as opposed to sticking to your rankings when i'm on the clock um example that he's giving uh or that that we have here is that Hopkins and Brian Thomas are back-to-back in ranks. Brian Thomas is going to be the more emotionally satisfying selection for a lot of people, myself included.

And it's also who do you think has the most upside at that point, upside versus risk versus what your team needs. Yeah, you might not need upside. I mean, that's the other part. You might need Hopkins. You might need guaranteed targets and starts. But you depending on the previous picks in your draft. I start going with my gut when it's obviously close in the rankings and sometimes it's fandom and emotional. I would rather root for Brian Thomas Jr. to have a breakout season

than I would rather root for Hopkins to hold on to his career for another year, clawing his way to targets. I mean, that's how I would look at it. Yeah, I don't know that you would call it your gut. You're not always going to take people based on rankings. We don't do it. I've never gone through a single draft in my life where I just take the highest person in my linear rankings because you're going to look at your team makeup if you need, you know.

That's a good point. It doesn't make it gut to make a different call than the ranking. Right. You're taking all the logic in. There is a time when I switch to my gut and that's like double digit rounds. That's when I just go like gut and that's like double digit rounds that's when I just go like I like that dude you know I'm just like right that's that's where I do that but for the most part um you you just got to bring in as much logic as you can and draft by tiers that's why we tier guys in the UDK um that way you could you could take a look at all the guys they might be in the same tier that doesn't mean that they have the same style of total fantasy finished two guys in the same tier.

They can both finish at the exact same, you know, wide receiver number at the end of the year and very different archetypes that fit different rosters. All right. Uh, Instagram question from him. Potsy says,

how long is too long to be waiting on a response to a trade offer that you have sent? Andy, why don't you have the floor? Because I know you're struggling with this right now. I have had a trade sent over to another manager in our Dynasty League. Are they listening right now? It's not me, is it? No, it's Mike's literally checking to make sure it's not him i am it's been sitting there for over a week i had to click the modify button and then i resent

it so it would pop up in our chat more recently how long is too long look there is no there's no answer if it's a trade you want to have happen, there's not a too long. You're willing to wait and pay. I could go in there and negotiate against myself. That's what you'd be doing. If I go in there and I modify, I know the person's thinking about it. They've at least accepted.

They've acknowledged. They've been thinking about it. I don't know how they have this kind of patience. I do not have it myself. If I see a trade that I'm thinking about doing, I'm either excited to click that button or I'm shutting it down or I'm at a minimum sending a counter. None of that has happened.

This person is just like, I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. I'm still thinking about it. And I want it to go through. So I'm willing to wait. And if I modify it now, I'm negotiating against myself and just trying to, because then you end up in a bad situation.

If I go offer a slight tweak right now to try to push it through, guess who sends over a slight tweak to the tweak? They'll send one back with even more giving on my side. Sure. And who would that be? One of the guys in our league. Ah, come on. Name names.

You do have to factor in, like, when there are times, unfortunately, in my life where someone asks me a question, I say, I'll think about it. And I'm just I'm lying to you because I'm not going to think about it. Hmm. I'm going to hope fully think about it later. But then I forget. And you just so so it's more of a nice reminder, I think, every couple days. Because also, like, I miss notifications. You're saying you need the reminder. Yes.

And, like, to me, if you go a couple days and then send her a reminder, I don't think that's rude at all because people's lives are crazy. People's digital lives are crazy. I've gone in to DM somebody, and they had said a 24-hour expiring offer i'm like oh shoot i'm i'm sorry i wasn't ignoring you i literally just didn't see this yeah it's totally normal if i'm if i send a trade offer to someone i'm usually going to poke them as well in a dm and and let them know if i don't hear something for a couple days i'll hit them up again yeah and and you can't uh like brooks has talked about this before he gets annoyed if someone tries to

over explain why it's good for them you don't need to do that my my strategy is keep it light if i know somebody's teetering i might send you some fun gifts i might try to yeah i might try to encourage you let's have a good time together you know what i mean me you and this trade let's have a party i love sending a let's make a deal gift yeah and if you have like a massive fantasy football show talk up the guys on that show you know what i mean help get that deal done yeah it's a good point who should we talk up yeah who are we talking i mean i think we all agree tyler lockett's in for a career oh my goodness what a bounce back wow can't drop that guy. New money. New money. That's all you're getting, Jay.

You know, I would tell you, there's a time in my life I would have told you the details of these trades, but ever since the great scarring that transpired when Mike, when I decided to trust in Mike and tell him about Calvin Johnson years ago. Ever since. That was like 15 years ago. That was a very long time ago. You should probably get over

it. No, no, no. It's not about getting over it. It's a lesson learned. It's not like if I decide to drive on the train tracks and then a train hits me, 15 years later, I don't go, you know what? It's time to drive on the tracks again. Yeah, it is. Is it? Yeah. It's been 15 years. No, there's so not

a chance. Those tracks are abandoned, man. There's no train coming down. Yeah, you're fine. Get on them tracks. No chance of telling either of you. Yeah, I'm scared of ghosts. I'm scared of ghost trains. I'm not telling either of you what's going on. Just who's the player you're trying to acquire?

And last year I got burned on a trade already. Papa Josh, the bald son of a... I mean, no. No, I'm not. I want love to tell you. I'd love to have a friend. You want love? So it's Jordan Love. Oh, good.

Yes, I'm speaking in code. All right. Let's take a break, compose ourselves. I'll check the train tracks out. We'll be back in a second. Also. Uh-huh. Don't go on the train. Don't drive on train tracks, people. Do we have the old... No, don't do it.

This is the hype train now, for those who don't know. This is the hype train, and it's just a toy train. But we once had a much louder train that was awesome and it was much scarier and i and people were really afraid on the road when they listened to this show and we had to it's so funny to me though because not that we would accept responsibility like obviously putting like a siren yeah and that's unacceptable if you're a musician and you put you know a police siren in your song shame on you because that's terrifying every time but like if i'm just

driving down the road and i hear a train we're not really a train culture over here jay there's a lot of trains around the united states my point is if you're not near tracks anywhere anywhere in the country you shouldn't be afraid that oh my gosh there's a Anywhere in the country if you're not near tracks, you shouldn't be afraid that oh my gosh, there's a train coming in the middle of downtown. I don't think that's how long the thought process works. No, you're just startled. When primal fear says you need

to escape, you're like, well, of course I'm fine. There's no trains around me. All right, kick off. And then a train just smashes you. falls off of a flatbed next to you heck yeah all right youtube question with the addition of the new kickoff rules what players that are currently being drafted could realistically see their increases see an increase in their yearly touchdown totals because of the return TDs, which, you know, the new kickoff system is unique. It mimics what the XFL was doing. It's like a hybrid kickoff where the offensive

and defensive blockers begin five yards apart at the, I think it's like the 40 and the 35 yard line. And you have, you know, you're incentivized at this point to kick to the receiver, to the kicker returner instead of going into the end zone. So the return rate in the XFL was 97%. Last year in the NFL, it was 22%. And you're going to have some of these guys house it for touchdowns. When you get that many opportunities and

the methodology for coverage you might be scoring a few extra special teams touchdowns. I don't have a very in-depth list of guys that I know are confirmed going to... Well, they're going to try some

new people. Yeah. And then Pat Thorman put a list out of some names. Oh, did he? That returned kicks last year that could be relevant. And one of them's a sleeper that I took at the last pick of my draft. Rashid Shahid is an option with the speed. Greg Dortch did it. Marvin Mims did it.

Antonio Gibson will probably do it. Damian Pierce did it a little bit, and that was a way to work into the lineup. Marvin Mims and if Tajay Spears keeps returning, which is a big question. Those, to me, are the two that I think could be the most. I mean, I can't imagine. He returned kicks from Week 13 on last year, but they probably won't do it again. I don't think they will. I doubt they do. I don't think they will. I doubt they do.

You might see some rookies also able to, you know, the Malachi Corlees. Why not do it, though? This is the readjustment of our brains. Now, yes. I feel like of all the teams to do it, San Francisco would be the one to do it before anybody

else. It's like, your injury risk is not turned up, and you're telling me you want a different guy returning the kick than Deebo Samuel on a play that's not going to get you any more hurt? Yeah. That's the weird logic thing where it's like you could see some players. It's going to be incidental. I'm not drafting based off of it, but you could have some of your players incidentally become kick returners I think that could happen yeah I mean halfway through the season you could see Tyreek just like sure demanding I want that opportunity what does that really equate to too you know let's say the best player does it is it two kickoff returns for touchdown most fantasy leagues this is completely irrelevant. I think by default, even the touchdowns on special teams don't count.

And then almost all leagues don't have return yardage. Now, if you're in a return yardage league, those are out there. That matters, yeah. Oh, that would be huge. Holy moly. Marvin Mims might be a player in a league like that. Jalen Hyatt. So, I mean, I'm looking at 2023's kickoff returns on nfl.com i like the guys

who had the most we're talking uh the high at 30 and then all the way down through you know let's just cut off at 10 and this is it's last year so we have to we do have to readjust but it's like last year the Marvin Mims had one. Well, yeah. I mean, you haven't had a – I don't think it's going to get out of control. You haven't had – like four is the record, and there's only two players that have done that,

and it was all before 1970. And so then you have a handful of players with three. Josh Cribs, if you remember him, he was fun to watch. He had three in one season. Otherwise, you're talking about if it's touchdown only, one or two is the difference of the entire season. It'll be fun, though. It will be fun to care about that.

I am so excited to go from commercial to something I care about to commercial instead of commercial to kick off through the back of the end zone to commercial. But there are leagues like the Scotty Fish Bowl that are really skewed towards those return yardage type of situations, which will be exciting. I'm not opposed to adding that as a variable.

No, I'm not. Not if these are fun. If these are a fun part of football, I'm not opposed to like... After we see what happens this season. Yes. Yeah. I'm just saying like... And you might not have to do a lot. You could super nerf it.

It could be a quarter of what, like, a normal situation is, but at least it's something. Just a little bonus for plays that make a difference. Yeah, I don't want Rasheed Jaheed to become the wide receiver one in fantasy, but if you gave him a little bit of a boost, that'd be cool. Speaking of things, do you look at him for drafts? Do you guys remember when Antonio Brown was the returner and the best wide receiver in the league?

If you had a return yardage league, it was over if you had Antonio. That's true. And the Bolivia the most kicks to face. I was going to say, that might have been when it started to turn for him, when he kicked Cleveland's kicker in the head. That was awesome. I mean, objectively awesome. Quite the reaction, you know?

It's not premeditated. You didn't know you were going to. But your first thought was like, I'm going to jump and kick you. No, I think he was trying to hurdle the guy. His first thought was, I'm going to jump over this guy. And the second thought was, I'm not going to make it, so what do I do? And instead of like a tuck protect, it was, it was just a jump kick.

It's like a bicycle kick to the face. All right, do you consider bye weeks? We have an Instagram question about it. Would you fade a pick if they share a bye week with other players on your team? No. In best ball, I will because you're not going to make transactions I'll look if I think I'm grabbing two quarterbacks I'm obviously not going to grab both of them with the same bye week but in redraft in my home leagues I don't I don't I don't even truly use it as a tiebreaker Grant in Alabama with our

final question here and we may have some debate on it but without Jason Kelsey is there reason to worry about Jalen Hurts I want to say no I really want to say no I'm excited about Jalen Hurts season because I think that their offensive coordinator uh shift that they tried last year was not good enough they have an extremely talented roster Devont.J. Brown might be the two best wide receiver combos in the league. And they started last year on fire. A.J. Brown was amazing. Jalen Hurts was amazing. The Eagles were nearly undefeated. I think they had one loss going into the bye week in week nine. And then the NFL figured them out. They didn't have pre-stamp motion. They were just such a predictable vanilla offense that then they got shut down, lost most of the games straight into the playoffs, you know, one and done in the playoffs. So I am excited to see the Kellen Moore offense with the talent here.

But there are. But I mean, that Jason Kelsey thing specifically, tush push implications it's kelsey plus barkley that scares me because if the tush push gets a little bit worse which we won't know for sure until they try it out but if it gets a little bit worse and you've got a another really good option with barkley you start converting some of those it's going to make a huge impact i mean this is a guy who had 15 rushing touchdowns because of the tush push it's it's It's also not just the tush push. I'll start with concerned, no. But it is a conversation.

It's not something that should just be completely thrown away. Ah, don't worry about it. We have seen offensive lines improve dramatically overnight because they add a true superstar at the center position it's a it's a really important position to the offensive line helping out quarterbacks identifying things you know calling out blitzes making sure like helping the quarterback with protections and everything like that so So it does matter. But it's not going to change the way I think about Jalen Hurts.

But sure, come six weeks into the season, and you could be going, well, man, that Jason Kelsey impact was more than we factored in. They do have a good line of succession in place, though. I am not a Kellen Moore truther that believes that he's impervious and going to represent a great improvement on the offense. We also saw the first time ever where Jalen Hurts, since his run the year before, he showed some weakness over the back half of the year.

His passer rating dropped from 99 to 75 over the back half of the year. His passer rating dropped from 99 to 75 over the back half of the year. His performance was not great. We just saw some more stats from Warren Sharp about some potential issues with third down completion percentage being his fault on misses. There you go. So, yeah, I mean, you should always – I think it's always a good thing in fantasy because, I mean, you've got to do this with Mahomes, right? You've got to do this with the best of the best.

You don't just go in blind thinking every season is going to be the same as the one before. Players have fluctuation in their performances, coordinators, coaches, offensive line, injuries, all of this stuff. You need to go in with a fresh look, but of all the players that you could still bank on at the quarterback position, it's impossible not to put Hurts at the tippy top of that list because of the track record, the weapons, and the fact that he's proven it over so much time

and is a rushing quarterback, which is a more predictable way of scoring fantasy points. So, you know, Lamar's a good example. Like if you just compare Jalen Hurst to Lamar Jackson, you've had some years where you're disappointed. You've had some games where you're disappointed. Yet every single time you go into a game, you know he could win you the week and you know that him, the player, is one of the best in the league.

And yes, like Lamar's lost weapons on the outside. Lamar's dealt with injuries to his favorite weapons, offensive line issues. So yeah, it's going to be a very, very interesting season for Philly because the cruise control they were on, it finally ended. It was literally like, what, a year and a half of cruise control where like every game they just manhandle you? Yeah.

Sorry, I was looking at slack of Juergen's lotion. Of what? Cam Juergen is going to slide to center to replace Kelsey, and so Mike is posting pictures of Juergens ultra healing extra dry skin moisturizer. This is how my brain works. I just talked about it on the footcast. There is nothing quite like going through somewhat of a long oral argument about something and then looking to your two buddies to see their thoughts.

And they look at you with glazed glassy eyes. We weren't listening to you. your two buddies to see their thoughts and they look at you with glazed, glassy eyes and they are staring at a bottle of Juergens Ultra Healing Ultra Dry Skin Moisturizer. I had nothing to add. You nailed it, man. So eloquent. Thanks, guys. Such a great job. Alright, that'll do it.

Hopefully you had a wonderful holiday. Enjoyed the Saturday episode. Shout out to Cam Juergens. We'll be back on Tuesday with some divisional break. That man needs a sponsorship. Goodbye. Goodbye.

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter at the FFBallers.