Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast - Top 10 TE Rankings + Preseason Reaction - Fantasy Football Podcast for 8/14

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

Are Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews worth their draft cost? Find out on today’s fantasy football podcast as we breakdown the top 10 TEs for the 2023 season! Which mid-round players have the best chance to breakout or bust? Plus, reactions and takeaways from the Week 1 preseason action! Manage your redraft, keeper, and dynasty fantasy football teams with the #1 fantasy football podcast. -- Fantasy Football Podcast for August 14th, 2023. Dive into the 2023 Ultimate Draft Kit + Draft Analyzer! UltimateDraftKit.com Connect with the show: Subscribe on YouTube Visit us on the Web Support the Show Follow on Twitter Follow on Instagram Join our Discord Check out today's sponsors: News & Notes presented by USAA. Visit https://USAA.com/Insurance Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Monopoly is back at McDonald's, everybody. This is an alert. It's time to get back to Mickey D's. Monopoly Double Play is back at McDonald's, and it's easy to get into the win. First, you peel on pack, and then again in the app. There are millions of prizes to be won,

including a new chance to win cash every minute in the app. Get into the game with Monopoly Double Play at McDonald's. While supplies last, one in five chances to win game piece prizes at outset, chances to win Double Play prizes based on time of code entry, and draw prizes based on number of entries in each draw. See rules in the app. Get a credit card annual fee waiver and earn C-plus points with the Scotiabank ultimate package and bank more entertainment. Learn more at scotiabank.com slash banking packages conditions apply.

Scotiabank you're richer than you think. Hey, it's me. The guy who introduces the show. Listen to my amazing voice. Now check out the amazing Ultimate Draft Kit. The guys spend all off-season creating this bad boy, and they keep it updated all off-season. It's got their full projections, breakouts, sleepers, bus,

over 100 player profile videos. It's even got a mobile app. Has my incredible voice lulled you into a deep sense of trust and commitment? Perfect. Now check out ultimatedraftkit.com and get ready to win your league. Now, back to the show. Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright. Welcome in! Welcome into the show, the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Mike, the Fantasy Hitman, right?

Jason Moore, Andy Holloway. Monday, August 14th, happy to have you with us. The illustrious deucers in the building. Judge Giamatti, Al Borland hanging out in deucers alley as they always do. Got the Tame Impala shirt on, Brooksie.

Yes, sir. Rocking out. That's good. We've got a great show for you today. We're in the thick of it. Heading into the third week of August. Preseason football happening. Yeah, we got... Little nuggets we can share.

We did. We definitely got some initial answers to some of those off-season questions. We are talking top 10 tight ends, favorite late round tight end picks on today's show as well. NFL news to cover cover some injury stuff uh rankings are flying around right now maybe that's an exaggeration but they are being tweaked and adjusted as we get to uh you know get a better look at these teams and what they're planning to do on offense some things happening not surprising maybe the average opposition of these players moving around um khalil harbert there's one feller who who uh 56 yarded his way to a couple round jumps probably i really want to talk about that because in some ways it's just like very funny to me when one play it takes one play to to rewrite six months

of narratives right and that is just a funny reality for fantasy football and i'm not saying it's not worthy of being rewritten i'm simply saying it's ridiculous that it can happen with one play i mean you look at your drafts it. It just locked mine up. I wrote that thing back in March. Okay. All right. Yeah, I mean, cool. Cool. Team Herbert, baby.

DJ Moore number one overall. But we'll get into it all. We do have a big, big announcement here at the top of the show. We have a big giveaway going on in fact you can win not only a signed derrick henry jersey not only a signed t higgins mini helmet but the grand prize of all grand prizes the ultimate draft kit for life for the rest of your life really won is like a Willy Wonka situation. That's accurate. No, they don't own the fantasy footballers, Jason. Oh, man.

They just get the ultimate draft kit. No, but they will own the suite. We actually give them the building. I feel like it's one and the same. If you own the UDK for life, it's like you have at least a minority share in this company. Sure. So we are giving away the ultimate draft kit for life to one lucky individual there'll be three separate winners for those three awards and all

you have to do to be entered to win the udk for life is order the 2023 ultimate draft kit by friday at 6 30 p.. Eastern because we will be going live with a special UDK for Life live stream on Friday at 6 p.m. Eastern. And at the end of that live stream, we're going to give it away. And so you've got all this week. And if you've pre-ordered it

and you bought it in the past, you are entered to win as well. But if you want to get in on that giveaway, the UDK for Life, the Derrick Henry signed jersey and the T. Higgins signed mini helmet ultimatedraftkit.com pick it up, get ready for your draft

updating every single day and there you go, we're going to be live on YouTube, Twitter Twitch, Facebook it's not only a really cool opportunity you're going to get the UDK anyways but come hang out with us for a little, you're going to get the UDK anyways. But come hang out with us for a little bit.

We're going to take questions, have a good time, and talk some fantasy football. All right. Anything else at the top of the show you guys want to mention? No, let's get into the preseason stuff. All right. Quick question of the day is basically, what were some of your biggest preseason week one reactions?

There were quite a few things that happened. I mean, not every starting group got an opportunity to even play, but we saw some players we wanted to see. Yeah, I will jump in because I had the questions about, I want to see what are the Jacksonville Jaguars wide receivers? What does that actually look like? Because Calvin Ridley is being drafted so far as the number one wide receiver, and Christian Kirk has, at least in this game,

he was the third wide receiver. He played exclusively in the slot, and that could be, like maybe Kirk ends up being drafted too high. If that's all we're going to see from him is he just comes in as the third wide receiver. I'm not sure off the top of my head how much 11 personnel the Jags are going to run or they ran last year,

but when that is your role in the offense, it definitely hurts because you're not on the field. You're not getting snaps, and if you're not getting snaps, it doesn't matter how good you are. You can't get a target. Yeah, it's really, really unfortunate. Thankfully, I think most of those plays are running plays.

But still, if you're not on the field, it sucks. Yeah, it matters. Yeah, I mean, you're right. You're right. And so, for me, one of my biggest takeaways is the same thing. It's a matter of opportunity and what we've seen being on the field or not being on the field. Well, in training camp, it started getting reported more and more and more

that Rashad Penny was not really being very involved in practice. He wasn't running with the ones. I know he got that first snap, got us all excited, but he was not utilized much. And then the speculation because of that is, look, he either is their dude. You know what I mean? Like they're just set on him being the guy, and so they're resting him and using camp time to see the other position battles,

or he's like on the roster bubble, might not make the team. Well, if it was the former, then what happened in preseason wouldn't have happened, which was Rashad Penny playing late into the second quarter. That's not what they do for the dude they're wanting to rest up because they know he's the one, which means to me he's on the roster bubble. Dude, I agree. I didn't believe that that first possibility was a real one with this coaching staff and with the history of uh being in the in the camp of of kenny gainwell and even boston scott like i didn't think that

there was a real possibility that this team would just say you're our guy on a one-year deal that you invested very little in so you know seeing happen, big adjustments for the fantasy community. And look, people have drafted, and the best ball crowd leaning into Penny, and it might not pay off. It may not. Thankfully, he's been like a steady ninth round, so a lower investment. The team did come out and talk about it a little bit, and they said, like, next week it's going to look different.

So I agree that these are certainly bad vibes for Rashad Penny, at least making the team aside from that. But can he be the true number one guy? So this is a wait and see, but I made some adjustments, moved Gainwell, because Kenny Gainwell and Boston Scott were the two guys that didn't play at all. That's right. Like as in. But that's also.

They're the veterans of the team. They know the offense. The team doesn't need to see what they bring. So this is still a. There's still some answers I need from this team. But off to a bad start for Penny. I'll just bring up the most impressive player I saw. I think during the preseason.

Which was Deuce Vaughn in that performance in Dallas. He might be a real thing. I mean, Deuce Vaughn, it's easy to make jokes about the stature because very, very, very few players historically have ever been able to have success at that size. And because it looks like a child. I mean, genuinely, he's awesome. He's a super fast little kid out there, but it looks so insane.

I thought he looked, honestly, I thought his stature looked better in pads, like full pads for the game. From the game angle, you're right. Like, the broadcast angle, it does look a little bit better, but if you watch anything from the sideline uh when you when you see like the handhelds or you know just training camp videos even in pads it's but it actually gives you a better perspective of the

difficulty of finding him behind the line he just he's so shitty disappears which he's so shifty to the he made several barry sand Sanders-esque lateral movements in this game that were they were like Darren Sproles I mean it's say Deuce Vaughn rookie running back for the Dallas Cowboys yeah just yeah I mentioned Dallas I'm not the rookie part but you know he's going to be competing with Rico Dowdle and Ronald Jones who's suspended but he'll have a chance at the beginning of the year to have snaps. It's possible. And running back is the one position where a rookie can come in and make a quick impact.

So I, you know, I think we all have doubts of Tony Pollard holding up to a massive, he is not built like Zeke or Derek Henry. Like Tony Pollard is generally going to be best with about 20 opportunities, total passing game and running game. And maybe he gets more than that, uh and malik davis too so i think that they're going to figure out that rotation behind pollard whether that means pollard doesn't deserve to be as high

as he is i don't i'm not going there but um it's interesting dues vaughn look great and um you know uh mike probably wanted to mention that adam chapman caught a couple passes uh he caught a couple passes he was also he was the starter he was out there more than greg dulcich at least in this small sample dulcich was a third down uh believe he got he was missed on a big play? Dulcich was? Possible. And the first target was to Troutman. It was a bad target. You can call it a drop, but a bad target. The point is that if this is the blueprint,

I'm not taking an Adam Troutman victory lap because I don't think Troutman's going to turn into something for this year, but if this is the blueprint blueprint that's a massive downgrade for the possibility of Greg Dulcich being a an actual sleeper breakout uh tight end and quickly back to uh Khalil Herbert Chicago Bears running back it wasn't the play that I mean that was just like kind of the cherry on top of the exciting morning for the Bears and for Khalil Herbert. It was the fact that Khalil took every snap that the starters played, and that included – Yeah, no Deontay Foreman working in.

Or Roshon Johnson, and that included third and long, and that was a – I was excited to see that the Bears got put in that situation of like, okay, it's third and eight. Who's coming in? Because I wasn't sure it was going to be Herbert. I'm like, who's third and eight who who's coming in because i wasn't sure it was going to be herbert like who's going to come in here but no it was cleo herbert and it was a designed screen pass to herbert so that's that's pretty exciting that his adp will certainly shift up because the normies are returning and they're seeing these these big types of plays but he's

still going to be a later round guy he's not going to all of a sudden skyrocket to the fifth round, at least in my opinion. I believe two things about Herbert. One, I think he's more talented than Alexander Madison. So I'll say that. On the field, I think he's a better player than Alexander Madison. And so the second thing is I don't understand the ADP disparity between the two.

To me, they're both in situations that first opportunity is the starter. We don't know what the rotation behind them is going to be, and I believe that both of those offenses are going to have a lot of success. So when you have a fourth-round, ninth-round ADP gap, that's insanity to me. See, I see the difference. I recognize it, and a lot of its quarterback the the passing work that won't be there as much for Herbert the vulturing of touchdowns at the goal line that Kirk Cousins isn't going to be rolling out stealing those

touchdowns I I think that there is I I like the the comp and realizing that they both are in similar situations, but I do think that the upside will be different. Well, let me give you another example then. Rashad White. Rashad White is going significantly ahead of Khalil Herbert. Same exact situation where, you know, maybe he gets a lot of passing work, but right now we think Chase Edmonds is going to get some of that work

in Tampa Bay. And Rashad White's not necessarily a goal-line force, so it's like five-round gap between Khalil Herbert and there are these players right now, and it came up in our mock draft episode. If you didn't get to catch it, that was Friday last week. There are certain players. I got Khalil Herbert in the 10th round?

That was a 10-teamer? It was a 10-team league. Maybe it was later than the 10th round. I think it was the 10th. It was the third-to-last pick in that draft, and it was where I should have taken a quarterback. Yeah, it was a great-team league. Maybe it was later than the 10th round. I think it was the 10th. It was the third-to-last pick in that draft, and it was where I should have taken a quarterback. Yeah, it was a great pick. Great pick.

I told you the Herbert pick was going to look good. But my point being that there are starting running backs going extremely late. For those of you that want to invest in onesie positions, tight ends and quarterbacks early, wide receiver value drops to you, and you're kind of like you're up against it to take a take a i mean it would have been great for you jason you had a team in that mock draft that was searching for value at the running back position late because you ended up with mark andrews and you took uh justin fields i believe so these running backs are going to be there and and um look we

all know what it's like in the middle of the season for fantasy. You're on the way everywhere, and you're desperate to find a running back that will get any snaps. And here you have these running backs, eighth, ninth, tenth round, that are going to have opportunities. And I just wish we could have, at some point,

talked Brooks into the guy. Because Brooks, all season long, hate Khalil Herbert. Hate Khalil Herbert. He's a huge Deonta Foreman guy. We're like, why, Brooks? I think we've talked. Have we talked you into Khalil Herbert now?

I guess I'm in. Yeah, see, this is. We got to persuade our employees before we expect to persuade the listeners. Let's get into the news. News and notes from around the league. Presented by USAA Insurance. All right. Colts head coach Shane Steichen expects Jonathan Taylor back with the team this week.

His quote said, he should be back this week. Do I know the exact date he'll be back? No, but he should be back. I'd like to believe he's just saying he should be. Like, he really should come back. I'm still waiting for this storyline about Josh Jacobs, and I'm not getting it. Back to Jonathan Taylor, I saw a tweet.

Can't remember who it was from, but it was kind of an NFL reporter, and they were saying it remains status quo here for Jonathan Taylor. He still wants to be traded and has told the team, like, I'll be back when I'm 100%. So it certainly seems like the hold, I guess it's not a hold in because it's not there, but the hold out is contract related, hoping to get a trade, but he's also like, I'm guessing that if he were on a different team, he'd be out there pushing himself to get out there.

But right now he's saying, no, I'm not 100% healthy, so you can wait until I'm ready. Which is, I think, fair for players on a franchise tag to be back and be healthy. It's worth noting, looking at snap counts in the preseason, Evan Hull had the first opportunity in the backfield in Indianapolis. Deion Jackson got opportunities too. Wait, did I say that right? No.

I got the name wrong. We'll figure that out. That sounds right. That's right. Is that Deion Jackson? Okay, that was right. Yeah. He got more work on the ground after him,

but Evan Hill caught some passes, something we know he'll be able to do. Just monitor that situation. Kenneth Walker returned to individual drills. Okay. Coming back from the... Ah! Okay. That'd be the groin. The groin index, drills. Okay. Coming back from the, ah. Okay.

That'd be the groin index. This one's big. This one's really big. This one stinks. This one's big and stinky, as Mike said. Yeah. Kendry Miller,

Saints rookie running back, left the preseason game, sprained knee, expected to miss a week or two, according to Nick Underhill. Optimism, he'll be ready to get back in week one i read somewhere else there's a chance he'll be back for week one same knee he had surgery on towards the end of his career at tcu already had missed a bunch of the off-season program due

to injury this is a problem because his his window to make his mark as a big contributor, because everything we've read about Jamal Williams has been positive from Saints camp, like fitting in, opportunity, and we saw it in the game. And then Alvin Kamara's coming back. And to his credit, all the stuff. And looked good. I say the stuff that sounds funny of like, we found an imbalance between the muscles in his legs,

and we've corrected it. Kamara has – the wins have certainly shifted to be more positive for Kamara. I think Kamara is closely – I mean, he's got – it's three games, right? It's three games. Man, what a fantasy situation. You don't get to put him on the IR. Huge history of success, losing efficiency recently, but I think they're going to win that division. And I don't think it's going to just be Jamal Williams. So Alvin Kamara is probably going to have a pretty big opportunity.

We just put up a new tool in the Ultimate Draft Kit, and I want to pull this up here. It's under the Research tab if you're in there, and it is an ADP platform comparison. And we talked about the fact that some of these platforms are going to lag when it comes to where players are being drafted. So you can compare Sleeper, ESPN, Yahoo, and Underdog. Kamara is a late seventh-round pick on Yahoo, almost eighth round. And Underdog, he's an eighth-round pick.

ESPN, he's still in the fifth right now, although in half-point, he's in the sixth. So I think that's going to keep dropping. If he's sitting there, based on the Kendrick Miller news, Jason, if he's sitting there, 6-0-8 in your draft, are you thinking about it? Yeah, I mean, he's going to be a player that you're going to have to think about if he's in the sixth round. The problem is there are still a few guys that I'm not sure that I want to take the chance on a guy that I've got to miss several weeks on if there's someone else

that I believe can be really special. And there's still some guys going pretty late. I like like James Cook, you know, who who's going to have the better season between those two guys. It's already a debatable topic. And one of them is missing three games. So I think I would it's really a matter of just are the running backs that I still like to take a shot on gone. If they are, then yeah yeah Alvin Kamara is worthy of a shot but if not I'm you know I'm just gonna take the guys that I get to play week one Zach Ertz cleared to practice expected to be ready for week one

okay yeah he was very very important to the roster last year he was on pace for over 80 receptions yeah but he's going to be important for this roster. He's Zach Ertz. There's an ability that he has to get open and be a quarterback's best friend. I'm not saying fantasy-wise you're going to want to play him. I'm just saying he hurts Trey McBride tremendously. That breakout season is not happening with Ertz on the field. That's my opinion.

Zach Ertz was playable all last year. Yeah, I would say for McBride, if Ertz is really healthy and he's going to be there week one, I agree you're going to have to wait on it. But the progression of the Cardinals season, it could still turn into Trey McBride gets an opportunity

because they see we got to move forward. We got to see what the young guys can do. But it looks like that might be on pause. Zachary's could get traded midseason. That would be my most likely situation. That could happen too. Because they may give him the opportunity to go play for a contender if this team is 1-8 or something.

Elijah Moore exited with a rib injury. X-rays were negative. Elijah Moore now a wide receiver for the Browns. And then, hooray, Mike. Oh, yeah. Kareem Hunt now visiting the Vikings, making the rounds. Love this quote from Kevin O'Connell. Said Kareem Hunt is, quote,

is maybe a potential fit for our football team. Maybe a potential. How much money you want, Kareem? That's exactly what it is. So, Mike, you've got Ramondre Stevenson with the Patriots, and you've got your Alexander Madison with the Vikings, both teams that Kareem Hunt is visiting. Which one, if he has to sign on one of those two,

which one will you be more upset by? Ooh. I can answer for him. Probably the Ramandre side oh really yeah i thought it was gonna be the yeah i would have said vikings too because he's gonna take passing game work and if you take if you make madison a first and second down guy with the history of inefficiency i would concern me yeah i mean it's it's the same argument for both is yeah that's true like romandre again it was you want those targets is that he got a 17 target share last year for that to hold up kareem hunt cannot be in business for the patriots what do you make of the

fact that kareem hunt is making multiple visits saints colts, Vikings. Teams are actively pursuing Kareem Hunt right now. And you're not seeing those storylines with like Ezekiel Elliott and some of these other backs, Leonard Fournette. Like, does that tell you that Kareem Hunt has more in the tank than what these teams saw with those other backs? I think it's probably more financial related, I'm guessing, that Zeke carries a much heavier presumed price tag than Kareem Hunt.

Nobody wants to pay for running backs. That's my presumption right now. And Kareem Hunt is a, he's, for, you can look and there's a lot of people that will say Kareem Hunt is washed. He's done. He can still catch the ball. So, I mean, like he can still be a useful player in the passing game. That's why I think that he's getting the interest, because teams always need

that. More versatile. Yeah. Alright, that was today's News and Notes presented by USAA Insurance. Learn more at USAA.com slash insurance. Quick break and back with our top 10 tight end countdown. Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference. Securian Canada countdown. giving you the peace of mind to focus on what truly matters. Find their products through banks, credit unions, and associations, or visit SecurianCanada.ca.

Securian Canada, insurance designed for life. I did realize with all these preseason games, I was reacquainted with the breath holding of injury yeah and just you know when some of these starters what my homes threw two passes justin fields was on the he threw two touchdowns both of them had air yards of about stuff i think he had three air yards did he i was gonna it was like two screen passes for touchdowns great to see d DJ Moore involved. I really, really like DJ Moore this year. But, man, just those – there's going to be some. There's going to be the preseason injuries. It just – it's unavoidable because things ramp up in camp

and you start playing at a higher speed. Should be banned. I don't know why we don't outlaw injuries. I'll say just a small piece of breaking news, not going to hit the button, but sources are saying J.K. Dobbins, a.k.a. J.K. 2L, is being activated today off the pup. Does that mean he'll be there? I think so.

Maybe we get individual position practices like Kenneth Walker's doing right now, but this is at least – we get like individual uh position practices like kenneth walker's doing right now but this is at least this we need this but he was uh remind me he was kind of holding out before the pup he so does he still now have the right to show up but he he might not or will he be if he's off the pup that would then mean that if he doesn't show up he'll get start to get fined okay okay so we expect him to be there. I would think so. Okay. Both legs? I have two strong legs this year.

Not one staying on puck? All right, let's get into it. Tight ends. Tight ends. All right, over the last five years, tight ends are slowly taking more and more targets away from the wide receiver position. Tight end target share. And yet remain useless.

Tight end target share since 2018. 19.8% in 2018. 20.6% the next year. And then over the last three years, a slight increase. 21, 21.1, 21.3. More involved. More two tight end sets, more higher draft capital lately being spent on them. 16 different tight ends averaged five or more targets per game last year.

That's the most in NFL history. Still feels unimportant because five targets in a game is not getting it done. The problem is not that you have, I mean, if you could see the future, you'd have enough tight ends per week to be valuable in fantasy for your teams. The problem is that you can see the future for about three of them. And then the other seven in the top ten could be Mo'Ally Cox, right? It could be just some third-string backup tight end that ends up being those targets and catches a touchdown.

Who's the guy that we call every tight end we never know? Yeah, the Smyths of the world will smite your chances of picking tight ends week to week. You have been smote. Yeah, you have been smote. Kyle trying to tell me, to tell everybody he plays for the Dolphins. No, he plays for the mystery team. He plays for the NFL.

Yeah. He plays for all teams, and he's there to steal your targets. He's the guy that shows up. We talked about snap goblins around the end zone. The tight end is the permanent. He's the player that when he scores the touchdown, everybody goes, ugh. Yeah.

Like, you know, he could have targeted any of the tight. If he targeted any wide receiver, the fantasy players are happy. Any running back, they're happy. Quarterback sneak, they're happy. But no, it's Durham Smythe. And nobody played him. This freaking guy. This freaking guy.

His family was ecstatic. Yeah. Good for them. But before we get into the countdown, our top 10 by consensus rankings, talk to me about a later round tight end target that you got your eyes on. For me, it's 100% Tyler Conklin right now.

Yeah. I think that that is a player that has been moving slowly up the ranks. I think Aaron Rodgers is going to look to him in the red zone. I think you're going to have opportunities for Tyler Conklin. He seems to be the guy in New York, and he's completely ignored in fantasy. Yeah. This is the if you punt the tight end situation. For me, it has been and still is right now for at least one more week, Greg Dulcich.

I am a little worried by what we saw from when they were in 11 personnel. Dulcich was not the starter. Dulcich was the backup. And so I'm a little bit worried about that. But I also think it's preseason. And if you want to talk about the one thing we know that happens in preseason is that they don't tip their hands on offenses. They run a vanilla defense, a vanilla offense. And so they're talking about using him as the Joker.

Chocolate special team. As the Joker role. I don't think they're really highlighting that yet. Joke's on you. So I'm going to say I'm still sticking with Greg Dulcich, second-year tight end for the Broncos. All right. Mike.

So I like the Conklin pick, and if we're talking, you know, we're just trying to find some real nasty boys here at the end. Guys, I just cannot stop myself with Dallas Cowboys tight ends, and it is Fergalicious Jake Ferguson Ferguson who was – he's the starter. You're addicted to nasty tight ends in Dallas. Nastiest. I admit I have a problem. But here is why.

Yes, he was listed as a co-starter, but of – and this is information via PFF that with the starters, so Jake Ferguson was on there for 13 snaps of Cooper Rush, the starting quarterback of his 17. He ran nine routes, and he was targeted on three of them. Again, this is Cooper Rush, not Dak Prescott, but Dak Prescott has always over-targeted the tight end position. Guys, even if you feel like they don't deserve to get targets. But if Ferguson is the starter, it will not surprise me in the least

if he ends up sneaking his way into the top 12. Yeah, Dak Prescott got Dalton Schultz a doctorate. He made him Dr. Schultz just because he loves to target the tight end. I don't blame you at all for targeting Fergie. All right, looking at number 10 in our tight end rankings right now, David Njoku at number 10, 27 years old. I've got him at 9, Jason at 10, Mike at 11. Career high in receptions last season.

I like him this year, and that has to do with the fact I like what I am seeing from Deshaun Watson. I think he's going to be outperforming people's expectations with Cleveland, and as a result, you really have Amari Cooper dot, dot, dot on that offense. Is it going to be Elijah Moore stepping into a role? Probably not a big one. Donovan Peoples-Jones, yeah, I'll catch a couple passes down the field,

but David Njoku is going to be the numbers he targets me. So I think you get him in the 19th round, you settle for him, and you might be okay. Yeah, he's a player that I've always really loved the talent, the athleticism, but he's never

put it together in a way that you want, and it feels like when you're going into the seventh year in a career you can't be like this seven years this is the one this is the breakout's gonna happen so I I'm very very very skeptical um that he will all of a sudden break out and be a weekly relevant player this year. It probably won't happen. That being said, you want a target of a guy who has athleticism like David Njoku has that can be the number two target for their offense, which his situation could be, and could be a good offense that passes more. You would expect the passing volume with Watson to go up over the Browns that we've seen Najoku with. So maybe Najoku hasn't been a great fantasy asset

because they've been such a run-heavy team, and that script could flip. Well, just do remember the beginning of last year, the pre-Voldemort coming and tanking the Cleveland Browns, Dave and Najoku, week one was an absolute disaster because we were like, man, Njoku feels like a sleeper tight end this year. Week one shows up, he's not involved, and we're like, oh, crap.

And then weeks two through seven, before Njoku got injured, he was averaging 5.5 catches and nearly 70 yards a week. That would be 93 and 1,100 pace. Yeah, this is the Jacacoby brissett games but it just it shows he had a stretch of last year where he looked like he was about to finish as a top 10 tight end you can't talk about nojoku breaking out in year seven without talking about number nine evan ingram breaking out in year seven i mean uh these guys came in together with high expectations and it is kind of ironic that we're sitting here talking about them at 10-9

in the 2023 tight end rankings. I like Njoku better than Ingram this year, and it just comes down to the fact that the target hierarchy, I think, benefits Njoku better than it benefits Ingram, where Ridley and Kirk and Zay Jones and Etienne and company, Ingram could disappear easier, in my opinion. I think the highs will be higher with Ingram because it's a better offense.

He's probably a bigger play guy, but the lows will be lower with Ingram. That's my take, and I got them back-to-back. Mike, you're the highest on Ingram. I don't mind that take at all. My bet on Ingram is a bet on the Jacksonville offense being better than the Cleveland one. And Ingram, it won't come down to just touchdowns for him.

He will have games where he plays on almost 90% of snaps, and he's the tight end 28 on the week. That's going to happen, just like it did last year. But he will have games with six, seven-plus receptions. And those, you really, I want to have some spike weeks here. They gave him some cash. The team is invested in Ingram moving forward to be a part of this offense. And I'm just betting that Doug Peterson,

who has given us some very good PPR tight end value in the past, I'm betting that it continues into next year. Yeah, I side with Andy here. I would much rather have Njoku solely because I know that Evan Ingram can't be the number two target here. When you've got Christian Kirk and you've got Calvin Ridley, those two guys alone, let alone Zay Jones, also very capable. I just don't think you're going to have any level of consistency here.

And if you look at last year, you had 25% of his total fantasy points come in one game. That monstrous, crazy. I thought you were going to say in like three games, four games. That was one. That was the weather game, right? That was the crazy weather game where he had 33.7 half

PPR points, 162 yards. Mike was naked in the streets running. 11 receptions. Two touchdowns. The Engram Hive was, my friend. You had sparklers in both hands. There were 22 of us

in the streets. The people who maintained our support for Evan Engram. Grab your sparklers! We're going outside! We're going streaking! That was a great week. Number 8 is Pat Fryermuth of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Here we go.

I think he gets a little bit... I think he gets a lot of bit hidden because of the touchdown problems he had last year. This is a 98 target tight end on an offense that literally couldn't throw the football across the goal line. It was historic, the low touchdown percentage that Kenny Pickett had. It's going to be better this year. In 2021, he had seven touchdowns on just 79 targets. Last year, two touchdowns on 98 targets. I do have a teeny bit of worry just because of Darnell Washington's presence around the goal line, but Pat Frymuth is that guy.

He's the truth at the position. The truth is the truth. And he will get loose. Yeah, I mean, he never had a great game by our definition on the consistency last year, but he had 50% good games, which means he's not going to kill you. He's going behind Ingram. Yeah, all three of these guys are in the eighth round. The three guys we've talked about, the eighth round is a great place

to get your tight end on average on sleeper. And if I'm taking a pick, are you getting loose? Oh, I'm getting I'm getting very loose. He's my tight end five. The the the talent that he has has been seen on the field like he's actually a really, really good, smart tight end. He was the tight end eight last season when he only had two touchdowns and you know you you can basically say he you know I would much rather target this guy who's going into year three and could take a step forward for an offense that we expect to take

a step forward Kenny Pickett looked pretty good in his preseason uh game we didn't we haven't brought his name up in in regards to how he played... How's the Deontay and Pickens? Yeah, I mean, the whole offense looked much, much better. Calvin Austin? I want a tight end that can get 100 targets. He was right there last year. I want a young, talented guy.

And so, yeah, I'm in on the Muth. There is a breakout possibility for him. I agree. This season. I agree. At seven in our consensus rankings, we have a player I've ranked at three. Whoa. That's

like my guy territory when that happens. Dallas Goddard of the Philadelphia Eagles. I've got him at three. Mike and Jason have him at eight. I have him projected for 74 receptions, just under 1,000 yards and five touchdowns. So when you understand that ranking, like that gets you three on my stat projections, is 75, 1,005.

You know, that's not outlandish when you look at what he was doing last year in the games that he was healthy. We know his impact on Devontae Smith's production. If you go through the first 10 weeks of the season, 81 for 1,006. That was the pace when he was healthy. Came back, had a nice game, the final game of the year. He's a young tight end still, and he's got the target share. I mean, almost 20% target share for Dallas Goddard.

I just see him as a very, very – he's not the onesie that you have to spend up on, Kelsey Andrews. He's not the – you don't have to pay the Kittle price. But you just get middle six round, take Dallas Goddard, maybe you have a top three tight end. Yeah, it's certainly in his range of outcomes. All the camp reports have been saying that there's just a great connection that Dallas Goddard's targeted like crazy by Jalen Hurts.

You know, it's tough to have three weapons in an offense where it's like, oh, man, I like Goddard. I like Devonta Smith. I like A.J. Brown. Can they all three succeed? Would it make you, because you like Devonta Smith, you like A.J. Brown, would that prohibit the, would you like Goddard and one of those guys, or would you try to avoid that?

I would personally try to avoid it. Yeah. If I'm looking, I don't mind the. I mean, Kelsey and Tyreek Hill were great together. Sure. We were, but we had our targets focused in on two guys sure I like Dallas Goddard the player it would not surprise me if he ends up like you have

Amanda you have him ranked a tight end three but if I'm taking a if I'm taking the shot on a six round tight end we have a guy who's going right around there in a couple spots that I just prefer a lot. Really?

Yeah. Okay. You're talking about Walrus. That's who I'm talking about. We'll get to him. George Kittle comes in at six. Jason brought him up on the ice episode. I can't help,

but it just feels like George Kittle is the least respected player. Well, it's, it's just, it's also hurt again. Yeah, he respected player. Well, it's just... He's also hurt again. Yeah, he is. It's just understanding who George Kittle is, and it's like...

The Evan Engram, you know, that was a huge spike game. That's pretty much what you get with George Kittle, of you'll get a humongous monster, weak winning performance, which that's sensational. Like, I'm not going't want to devalue that George Kittle has weak winning appeal, but he's going in the fifth round. He's being drafted as the tight end four right now, and it won't be consistent. He's a great player, but unfortunately, just the way that the market goes for the tight end position and the way that fantasy works, I'm probably out on him.

You'll be in leagues, though, where maybe everyone else is out on George Kittle as well, and then he becomes a value because if he's going back of the sixth and the seventh, then now I'm going to be really interested in Kittle, but that fifth is very difficult to handle. I would make him a strong trade target if, for some reason, one of their other primary targets goes down. Sure. Like, you know how involved he'll be if they didn't have an IU,

they didn't have a Debo, and they didn't have a CMC. And, you know, all three of those players have dealt with injuries at times. And so, you know, last year Jason jumped on the opportunity to – To trade him away. Oh, he did trade him away. Yeah. That's right. And that worked out with Dalton Schultz and it worked out with Kittle.

Kittle ended up having a big finish to the year. But it's hard to support four options like you said. We're looking at number five. I am the Walrus. Cuckoo, ca-choo. It's not like I disagree with you, Mike. I have him at four. So, Goddard at three, Waller at four. It's not like I disagree with you, Mike. I have them at four.

So Goddard at three, Waller at four. One of them is a situation that you know, right? Jalen Hurts, you know what to expect. Dallas Goddard, you saw the rapport, the age. He's younger by a couple of years, and so you kind of understand that. Darren Waller, this has been a number two and number three tight end historically, so you know that, but it was with a different team, different quarterback. So he was my fire pick on ice and fire, so I'm in, Mike. But talk about why you've been rising so much on Darren Waller.

It comes down to the other weapons on the team of all reports out of camp or it's going to be slayton hodges and the third wide receiver that i'm hearing out of giants camp is actually paris campbell yeah uh so didn't play in preseason so if those are the three and i'm not like isaiah hodgins had a definitely a very interesting end of the season. Maybe he is a good player, but those three wide receivers, they need someone to come in here and be the true number one, and that's what the Giants traded for. They traded for Darren Waller. He can come in, and back when we were having those huge years for Waller

for the Las Vegas Raiders, we're talking a 24% target share, a 28% target share. That's why I like him more than Goddard because in the range of outcomes is Darren Waller is the number one guy for the New York the New York Giants Dallas Goddard maybe a week or two he could be the number one player for the Eagles but on the season he can't possibly be the number one when you have A.J. Brown and Smith so Waller to me makes is a is a huge upside pick his his draft price and does not reflect what I where I think he can go going at the back of the sixth yeah I I completely have risen recently on Darren Waller I had him right from the get-go in the

ultimate draft kill we statted people out as the number one target in the offense, but I was skeptical whether or not he still has it. Um, all the camp reports have been beyond glowing about Darren Waller. He's just dominating completely. Like I, I, I don't know who the beat reporter was to reference it, but it was a really funny comment talking about how he's convinced that when the coaches make Darren Waller come off the field, it is to force Daniel Jones to have to throw the ball to someone else because he's just, he's just targeting them over and over and over. And he's been dominating. So if you're telling me that a guy, you know, at 30 years old, about to be 31, 31, that is not a death knell at the tight end position. We've seen big volume, big behemoth tight ends really dominate for fantasy at that age still. So I'm not as concerned and you know, he is, he's just

their best target. So when you can get a guy in the sixth round who will have the most targets on the team is talented, has done it before. Uh, yeah, I think it's a really really good shot to take i would much rather have him at the back of the sixth than kittle in the fifth where you know the the players i feel like there's a big break there between the fifth and sixth round on the quality of the other positional players and number four is kyle pitts i have him down at seven mike at three jason at four yeah uh i promise you that mine is not punitive. It's not a punishment for last year.

Kyle Pitts, here's what we know. Here's what's true. Kyle Pitts is a freak athletically and is always capable of a big play. Here's what we know. 27 times he's played football on an NFL field. The big plays didn't come very

often because we can blame everything under the sun but mostly it's just been they haven't happened the quarterback can't get him the ball and the plays don't work out the drives aren't sustained I don't have him that high because nothing this year about Kyle Pitts has changed from the last two years. So he's always been capable of being the number one tight end on a week. Always. That was true two years ago as a rookie when he had 1,000 yards. It was true this year, or last year, and it's true this year. That's always going to be true.

But I don't think the quarterback situation or the offensive philosophy have changed in any manner that makes me confident that it will happen this year versus the last two therefore he's at seven that was where he finished as a rookie that's why I got him at seven that's what the numbers bore out doesn't matter Matt Ryan stunk Marcus Mariota stunk and Desmond Ritter I don't know what he's got and if And if you get to throw the ball 18 times and you're maybe completing 50%, 60% of them, you better hope they're really, really big plays for Kyle Pitts. I've watched enough Kyle Pitts over two years

to know that if you miss your couple of chances, I just walk out of the room. It's like if he has a target in the middle of the field, he doesn't have it. I know I got 15 minutes to make a sandwich and do something else because you're not getting another one for a while. Yeah, it's one of those. And you guys got him very high.

Well, we have him high based on his talent. He's obviously a very talented guy. He's also still young. You know, tight ends take a while to really get into their NFL groove, even though he came out and as a rookie had 1,000 yards. I mean, he's younger than Dalton Kincaid. Still. Still.

He is a young, crazy athletic. Say young one more time. I dare you. I heard young so many times. Hold on. Crazy athletic and young. I've known that for two years. Give me something else.

Okay, he is 22 years old. How about a 60% bust rate? Can we get that out there? Dallas Goddard busts at 8% of the time, and Dallas Goddard's going around later. That's crazy talk. I will say that I would rather have a later Dallas Goddard than Kyle Pitts, and I would rather have Darren Waller than Kyle Pitts as of right now because

we have continued to see camp plays where it's what you saw last year. It's Kyle Pitts dominating and not being able to receive a pass towards his hands. So there are fears there. The reason I'm willing to still take shares of Kyle Pitts this year is because last year it was insane. Last year you're paying a second round, a third round pick because the talent for him to take that leap forward, like let's just say Desmond Ritter gets the job done and the Falcons are pretty good in a weak division and their offense works really well with Bijan Robinson and Drake Lutter. If they're a good offense, Kyle Pitts could actually come out of this season as that number two tight end.

That's not really in the range of outcomes for a lot of these other players. So if you are spending a six, I've seen plenty of drafts where I've gotten Kyle Pitts in the seventh round. And at that point, it doesn't cost you that much to take the swing for the upside you know that's you're you're gonna win a league by getting upside players um Darren Waller is much much much safer the targets are going to be there but I do think that because of how young Kyle Pitts is he he can really succeed he was just just born. He's just born. It was October 6th, 2000.

In games played, he was getting a 27% target share. There's just not. A target share in Atlanta doesn't matter to me because the pie is so small it wouldn't even fill up a baby. The pie? I'm still wearing last year. Yeah, look, I get it. Because I analyzed it and analyzed it and analyzed it,

and I kept coming back to young, young talent, talent, young, young talent. And the way that I project the Falcons, I think that the passing work will go up. It's going to be Kyle Pitts and Drake London. It's going to be a hyper-focused target situation that we do love. Why would it go up? Why would it go up? And would it go to Bijon? I mean, Bijon's going to be a hyper-focused target situation that we do love. Why would it go up? Why would it go up? And would it go to Bijan? I mean, Bijan's going to take way more targets out of that.

Bijan will get some, but just because historically when teams pass that few of an amount of actual passing attempts, just historically they have gone up the following season. So I'm betting on that. I'm betting on that uh i'm betting on the target share and it's just this is a you don't have to risk like jason was saying like last year but this is a ceiling pick that if in if kyle pitts hits tight uh tight end three tight end two is in the range of outcomes desmond ritter maybe he's better than marcus mariota maybe he's

not but we also have a ripcord of safety for for the Atlanta Falcons of Taylor Heineke and if Taylor Heineke comes in he is he's shown us that he is capable of getting fantasy production for his players the sixth round is too high of a place to draft the player that you might not want to even play at the position week to week that's the biggest concern I have for me if you bust 60% of the time, whether you spent the second or the fifth or sixth, you do have to at least acknowledge you might have to play a different tight end.

That was the impossibility of drafting Pitts last year is you had to play him every single week because of the draft costs. If you spend a six rounder on a tight end, you're not drafting another tight end, right? Nope. So Kyle Pitts is your guy by hook or by crook, and that'll be the gamble so uh maybe desmond ritter will andy is out i know yeah i don't i can't he'll have great week tj hawkinson comes in at three uh he's fine you know

i don't know why the uh malaise around Hawkinson, although he is banged up right now. He has not been practicing. Last year, from week nine on, 22% target share in an offense that throws it like a bunch. It's just 8.6 targets a game. Yeah, but he's also going in the late fourth. He's being selected as the third tight end off of the board.

He feels lockable in your lineup, though. Oh, certainly. Yeah, but like every week you can be like, hey, maybe I have a big week, and if I don't, I'm still going to have eight targets. His pace as a Viking was 146 targets, 102 receptions. That being said, you weren't always happy. He would have a week with six targets and have five fantasy points. The way they utilized him was on the shortest little worthless routes possible.

So for me, I want Hawkinson in a PPR league because that's where his value is going to come. Not that he can't score touchdowns. He could with this offense. But his real difference-making approach is the consistency of the targets. But he wasn't getting a lot of yards on that. It was 800 yards was the pace. That's crazy.

To get 100 receptions and not crack 1,000 yards is putrid. And that was kind of how he was utilized. What are you signing up for? Do you want to sign up for targets? Because it's almost double the Kyle Pitts space. Or do you want to sign up for big plays? And that's where, if I'm in a PPR league, I would sign up for targets

if they both had the same cost. The issue with Hawkinson is I don't know that he is good enough to sacrifice a fourth-round pick. That's just too expensive for me. Mark Andrews and Travis Kelsey at two and one, not a surprise. The only surprise here is that Travis Kelsey was, you know, he spent a year being shunned by the fantasy community all the way down to

number two last year in the ADP. I mean, Mark Andrews was going ahead of him. Here we are. He's reclaimed the throne. And both of these players are extremely safe. Mark Andrews has missed some time recently, but he's 28 years old, not even 28 yet. Kelsey's older. First five weeks of last year was on pace for 110 catches for 1,289 yards and 14 touchdowns.

I think that they're... I've risen on Andrews because I have become less confident in the trifecta of wide receivers that they have. Zay Flowers still has a lot to prove. Beckham is old.

Bateman is injured. Here we are with Mark Andrews tried and true, ready to rumble. And if you're going to throw the ball more, more plays, there are very few situations in the NFL. It's Mahomes Kelsey and Jackson and Andrews that are mind melds at the positions. My question for Mark Andrews comes down to where are you willing to draft him? Because look, if you want Travis Kelsey,

you're taking him in the middle of the first round. I mean, Kelsey should finish as the number one tight end on the year. But for Mark Andrews, it comes because Jason, you love Mark Andrews this year, but it comes down to where are you actually positionally in the draft because it's because we it's easy to say no I would much rather pass on Kelsey and I'll scoop up Mark Andrews in the third round well what if you are slotted because he's he's the his ADP is the 303 what if you're slotted that you're the threeotted that you're the 309, that your chance of actually getting Mark Andrews goes down dramatically

the further you go along in the third round? So are you willing to take him in the late second round or wherever you are in the second? It's a good question. I'd be curious. Yeah. The reason that I love Andrews so much this year is because of where he's going in that third. It's because of the value that you

get being able to have your first two picks ahead of him. If you look at ADP, and I get him in the third almost always, oftentimes in the middle. I see what you're saying, Mike, in the sense that if you just happen to be at the part of the draft where you're at the very back of the third, you're going to have to reach way too early to take him. And I personally would rather have the other positional players there than him. But where he's going in the third, when you can start with a stud running back, a stud wide receiver, or you know however you want to build

your roster but your third player can be someone that I think at the end of this season Kelsey and Andrews play 17 games they're they're all healthy their quarterbacks are healthy there's a legitimate chance that Mark Andrews has more fantasy points than Travis Kelsey. I don't project it that way because of the current wide receiver depth chart in Kansas City being, you know, it's so clearly Kelsey. But with the age of these players, I think that Mark, I mean, Mark Andrews has already beaten Kelsey when they've both been healthy with Mahomes and with Lamar Jackson. The new offensive system in Baltimore, throwing the ball so much.

So to me, it's like having Travis Kelsey, oh, it's so nice. It's so nice when you have him. It's locked in. You've got a positional advantage. There's only one other player in the entire NFL that you can have that feeling with, and it's Mark Andrews, and you can not sacrifice Austin Eckler to draft him. So that's why I love Andrews right now so much. Yeah, it's a compelling argument.

I mean, I'm in a situation where I have Kelsey as my tight end in our two main leagues, but I didn't have to go and make that decision in the first round of the draft like some people have to make. Kelsey had zero bust games last year, 53% great. I just looked at the box score. He only had four games during the year, which he had fewer than five receptions.

In those four games, he finishes the tight end three on the week, the tight end five on the week, tight end eight, and tight end 14. So his worst games of the year were his were the best games for most tight ends um it just comes down to like is the shoe ever going to drop on travis kelsey and and this was the most points he's ever had it's just hard because what he does functionally it's not you know old school jimmy graham way down the field on a speed seam route. It's just like somehow he turns his body in the way that the other guy thinks he's going to turn it another way.

He just tricks people. It makes no sense. And he's always open. He's always open. And you know where they're going with the ball. Guard him. And they're so creative. If you ever wanted a situation that you know that no matter what the physical skills slowing down

could still be fine it's when it's misdirection and like andy reed is a misdirection master it's all about putting people in tricky situations and then all of a sudden you know kelsey's your guy you know sky more's not a big dude cadare Kadarius Tony's not a big dude like red zone they lost Juju right he's not a part of that equation like what's the red zone gonna be for these guys Kelsey yeah I mean Kelsey and Clyde yeah yeah we're back baby yeah Kelsey is obviously great it's very difficult for me yeah I mean when when. When you're going, right now on average, he's the sixth pick in the draft. And you're giving up extreme talented running backs and wide receivers in order to grab a 34-year-old.

33.8. He'll be playing at 34. It's so tough to do that. He's a great god, Jason. Here's the one thing, and you're right, 100% right. The thing about Kelsey is that you didn't mess up your first-round pick. Half the first-round picks every year are mess-ups. That's the truth.

That's fair. And you don't mess up fantasy finishes since 2016 of 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1. Two. What a loser. So that's what you get with Kelsey. Maybe you cap your ceiling a little bit, but you don't screw it up. And if you're the guy that's like, man, I just don't want to look dumb, take Travis Kelsey and just figure the rest out.

That is a possibility. But that is our top 10 tight ends. We've got a show tomorrow where we will be talking about our changing opinions on certain players. We have a year-round podcast. We've been talking about players for a long time. We form opinions in February. Who have we changed our minds on the most? Get into the mailbag a little bit, so send in your questions.

We're on Twitter, slash X, at the FFBallers. On Wednesday, the Top 10 Tips and Tricks episode. On Thursday, we'll do another mock draft episode with a surprise for you. And on Friday, I don't know if they're ready for it. I don't know if we're ready for it. But the My Guys episode. I've seen the board. We're not ready.

The My Guys episode is Friday this week. We're in the thick of it. If you want to come see us live, Los Angeles, August 26th, go to ballerslive.com. There are still a few tickets left. Goodbye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com

and follow us on Twitter at the FFBallers.