Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast - Underrated or Overrated??? - Fantasy Football Podcast for 6/19

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Fantasy Football show for June 19, 2025. New show, new segment! Will the Commanders offense take another step forward in 2025? Is Caleb Williams overrated? Andy, Mike, and Jason choose Underrated or Overrated for a number of topics and players. Plus, debates on a handful of fantasy football statistics, and how much they actually matter! Manage your redraft, keeper, and dynasty fantasy football teams with the #1 fantasy football podcast.2025 ULTIMATE DRAFT KIT is available now at UltimateDraftKit.com(00:00) Introduction(04:38) Tee Higgins vs Rashee Rice(07:44) NFL News(12:48) Underrated or Overrated?(13:10) Extra Flex Spots(15:22) Washington Offense(20:36) Yards Per Carry Stat(25:56) Rostering Two QBs(29:39) Mike McDaniel - Miami Dolphins(34:23) Caleb Williams(42:22) Completion %(46:18) Isaiah Likely (52:16) Contested Catches Connect with the show:Subscribe on YouTubeVisit us on the WebSupport the ShowFollow on XFollow on InstagramJoin our Discord

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright. Welcome in! Thursday June 19th, the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Thank you for listening. Thank you for stopping by. Mike the Fantasy Hitman, Jason Moore, Andy Holloway. Back with you, another episode, a new episode, a brand new segment we're breaking out today.

Going to do a little underrated, overrated on the show. We've got a number of topics we've picked out. And two big thumbs. We do. We've got some big thumbs for those watching on the YouTube, but we're all gonna weigh in, and I don't know what your answer's gonna be to any of them, but we're gonna talk through players

and offenses and topics within fantasy and scoring systems and all sorts of things related to fantasy and figure out if you believe they're underrated or overrated. I can tell you right now my answers are going to be the correct ones. Okay. So makes it pretty easy.

So Jason's confidence, let me go overrated here. Nice search there. We have a quick question to get through. And we have a little bit of news to talk about before we jump into the segment. A reminder the Ultimate Draft Kit available right now at ultimatedraftkit.com. You can follow the show over on X at the FF Ballers. You can grab the mobile app by the way the UDK mobile app is available on all platforms and then you can watch the show on YouTube, youtube.com slash

the fantasy footballers. Subscribe,com slash The Fantasy Footballers. Subscribe, click the bell during the season. Mike does a very sweet Sunday live event every single week before the football games kick off where you get to witness him sweating profusely but making all the right calls. Or some of the right calls. Yes, also sweating on the inside.

Right. It's not unpleasant to watch. No, in the kind of rankings system here in the studio of sweat, you're not near the top. No, I'm pretty low. No, we got some sweaters in here. I think Al is number one by a lot. I mean, I'm number two by a lot. And there is no one in tier two. there is no one in tier two.

There is no one in tier two. You used to be an S tier sweater. You were, your sweat is. I think you're down to A though. Yeah. I think you've dropped and Jeremy, I don't even know if S tier, I think we had to make up.

The only reason that works is cause S stands for sweat. Like we were like, A's not high enough, we need another one. For the amount he sweats. I don't even know what it is. If you were. It's not sweat. No, A's not high enough, we need another one. And for the amount he sweats, I don't even know what it is. If you are. It's not sweat. No, it's a difference.

It's like a gel. Man, he's getting it. He's on vacation. Al's not here in Dusers Alley. Well, of course he is. It's June, so he's gone. He's not here, he's on a well-deserved family vacation. But yeah, no, Mike, if you played pickleball

and you put on a full parka and a sweater, you would sweat less than Al does in athletic gear. That is, that is true. Yeah, like cause sometimes, sometimes you play a team, like pickleball is two on two. And so your teammate does something great, you wanna give them a little tap. You wanna like get them, you know, don't do that with Al.

Just pat his shoulder. No, no, no. You'll drown. Yeah, it goes. Just pat his shoulder. No. No. You'll drown. Yeah. It goes whoosh. Yeah. All right, here's our quick question of the day. Hold on.

Hold on. Wait, before we're done dunking on Jeremy, I just remembered we were out doing a pickleball game ladder, like a little tournament. Yeah. We got with, we faced Jeremy and you were like, wow. Because we weren't on his team. We weren't on his team.

We were like, wow, Jeremy, you're a little, your shirt's a little sweaty because his shirt was unbelievably sweaty. And he informs us, he goes, this is my second shirt. He had already changed. I was shocked. He was like, do it work. If you guys hit a chest bump when you're both full of action

sweat, what would happen? Tidal wave? That is how water is created. OK. Can I move on now? Yeah, now you can. Quick question of the day. Doug writes in from Fort Worth, Texas.

Hey, Doug. Says draft is in a week. And I'm splitting hairs trying to decide between T. Higgins and Rashi Rice. Do you have any advice? This one, I want you two to weigh in. My advice is that I have them very far apart. Like it's a very easy T. Higgins for me.

You are not high on Rice. I know that both Mike and I are believers that Rice is going to be more the clear number one for the Chiefs offense, but I'm definitely on the T Higgins side here. Like easily on the T Higgins side personally. The reason why is because while we know T Higgins is not going to be the number one for his team, and Rushie Rice could be the number one for his team. We also know that T. Higgins is definitely the two for a team that needs to score 30 points every game. We have so many more games of T. Higgins dominating for fantasy. Rushie Rice has a couple of small stretches. The end of his rookie year was like, there was

glimmers, there was promise. Then he comes out sophomore year, three games of awesomeness. So you add the fact that like, okay, is Rashi Rice the number one for his team? I think he is, but he might not be. He might be the number two. Maybe Xavier Worthy steps up. Might be the number three. Maybe Travis Kelsey is still getting 24% of targets.

It might be just four guys with Hollywood Brown or even more, because Mahomes just spreads the ball around and they've got a great defense. They don't need to score 30 every game. So I think there's so much more risk and also one of these guys is coming off of a season ending injury. One is not like.

And has the legal thing in the background with Rashi Rice and you know we have him ranked. He's a cumulative like if you average our risk rating he's at 7.7 out of 10 compared to T. Higgins. Who is risky? I mean, he's got injury concerns and risk as well. Both have similar upside in the UDK, target percentage, right? You can label them a one, two or three. If you just, the target percentage is what's going to matter. Total passing volume in Cincinnati is going to be higher. And so if they have a similar target percentage, you have more reliability there.

For me, I'm very comfortable going Higgins here. they have a similar target percentage, you have more reliability there. For me, I'm very comfortable going Higgins here. You pick a different name. We can have the debate about Rashe Rice. Yeah, I'm taking, I think I'm going Rice. If you have to draft in a week, the legal thing I think is fair. It's really quiet on that front. I, obviously the closer we get to the start of the season the more likely it is that will it'll get the buck will get passed another year

Even with the risk of it a guy who in the first three weeks was averaging a 35% target share from Patrick Mahomes, and I know there's a different team now, but I Think Rice goes right back into being the number one and being just a stud in that area of the field. It is, he was so impactful in those games that sometimes it feels like he played more than he did. Yes, it does. In terms of the way, you know, that's the peak of the fantasy season he was breaking out.

So it will be interesting. And unfortunately, I mean, I know we're incredible legal experts, but we do have more legal things to talk about. Oh boy. News and notes from around the league. Well, Rashe Rice's legal situation, the buck could get passed to a future year or time. We are likely to get a conclusion to the

Jordan Addison situation, the 2024 DUI speeding situation. There is a jury trial set for July 15th. The expectation that we've heard from multiple sources, including Vikings beat reporter, Ben Gosling, is that Addison will be suspended for the first three games based on the standard policy. Yeah, that's, that's not done yet, and unless something is determined to be over and above normal, three would be the max.

Based on the timeline and trying to get this done right now, the jury trial that's set, it hasn't happened yet, but I assume, and I changed some stats today to reflect that I believe the first three games will be missed. Three games is, it's not so many that you'd take Addison off your board. It almost is.

For you? It almost is for me because of what he rep, it's not like, you know, if you have a superstar, you know, if Justin Jefferson, his teammate, misses the first three weeks, whatever. I don't know that Jordan Addison is a big enough differentiator, like someone that is going to just level up,

be so awesome that I'm willing to wait three weeks holding a roster spot. He's got, I mean, his ADP will collapse. Yes. I mean, he will go very, very late in drafts, not be drafted in some. In that case, I think he could be impactful. Mike, would you still select Jordan Addison? ADP will be everything. Right now, he's going in the middle of the sixth round, wide receiver

32 on sleeper, which is already low for what he's shown us. He's got a rookie, not a rookie quarterback, but technically a sophomore who is a rookie. And I think that he would probably drop into the double digit rounds if you're missing three games. And then at that point, you do have to, you don't have an IR spot for him. He sits there, he takes up a- No, you do not, but at that point,

I would be willing to take the chance on him because he would, if, he will be an incredibly popular waiver pickup. And so, you know, I'm trying to think about that. I'm like, I'm gonna save some fab. I'm just gonna get out in front of it, hold him through those three weeks and find out. He is definitively the best receiver

outside of Jefferson on that team. Oh yes. And, you know, we'll see what happens with McCarthy, but last year, nine touchdowns in just 15 games played has a nose for the big play. I mean, it just happens with him. So we'll see, but that's the situation with Jordan Addison. Rams head coach, Sean McVeigh, came out and said

the team has, quote, made progress on a contract extension. How long can you make progress? They've been making progress for months. With Kyron Williams, just let me get the whole thing out there so you know who we're talking about. But you guys have been eagerly awaiting a Kyron, I mean we all have as fantasy managers, been awaiting a Kyron Williams extension.

This is a team that's been a fourth rounder on a running back, they spent a second rounder, or third rounder last year. And Kyron's just been the guy. I mean I kind of look at Kyron and Chase Brown. Like, Chase Brown is like Kyron a year ago, where people still wanna know, are you the dude? And then the team went out and they brought in

Kaleo Herbert and it's like, oh, maybe now they don't want him to, oh no, he's still the dude. And then you go into this here and it seems like Chase Brown's the guy. Kyron, the building loves him. Sean McVeigh loves him. But no contract yet. And so we are waiting.

No contract extension. He's obviously under contract this year. For dynasty managers, it makes a huge difference. I think even in redraft, depending on what the deal is, if they pay him a ton of money, it solidifies his spot, makes me feel a little bit more confident. I personally am already still confident. I don't think that his workload is going to disappear. I believe where he's being drafted

right now is behind where he'll finish, certainly is far behind where he's finished the last two years. I know last year his efficiency metrics dropped a little bit, you know, but he still is a goal line monster. RB6, two consecutive years, despite not playing a full season in either of them. So, hard to argue with that, but the contract would make us feel very cozy about the workload.

The same way we'd feel about James Cook maybe if he signed an extension. It was a team commitment. And maybe. I mean we still have the touchdown aggression story, but at least you know the guy was going to be the guy. So I don't think we have anything else news wise. Do we have anything back there Papa Josh? No?

That's going to do it. Okay. Well we will. News this time of year is overrated. Oh boy. Underrated or overrated? Okay. You might get my thumbs situated. You got your your thumbs figured out? I think so. That's that weird, weird thing to say.

All right, we'll start it here at the top. Underrated or overrated, and we'll start with this topic. Extra flex spots in your league. So think about it. How are we doing it? Think about it for a second. Are we going one, two, three? I'll count it down, I'll count it down.

I'll count it down. No, I'm going to go three, two, one. Oh. Extra flex spots in your league, underrated or overrated, three, two, one. Okay, we are all unanimously. This game stinks. It's it. Underrated on the extra flex spots.

We'll take the layup on the first one, but tell me why. Yeah, I mean, it is so much more fun to play. If you're in a league right now where you've got one flex spot, put a vote to add another flex spot. It makes more fantasy players relevant. It makes the better managers usually do better in those leagues because they are finding the diamonds in the rough.

They are mining the waiver wire and finding people that... In trades, just like trades. When you have fewer spots, all you're trying to do is, I need to get the big boys. I'm trying to trade for Saquon. When you have a second flex spot, it matters. I'm out there trying to get players who I think are on the rise. The way I think about stashing players is a little bit different. And it's a more rewarding experience

as a fantasy football player. Borderline critical in smaller leagues, too. Especially a 10-person league. You should probably have a three-flex. You could definitely have three-flex in there. And we have, or Jason, I guess, is out there with the signs on the anti-kicker movement, but part of that is you can remove a kicker,

a position not heavily researched or enjoyed, and put in a flex spot where you just have a week to week, like more guys get played. There's more variability, there's more players to follow that you've made a decision to, you're not just rolling a random kicker out there. Yeah, if you can find the, you know, when you're the guy that grabs Joann Jennings

for a hot stretch and gets in that second flex spot, it makes a huge difference. This strategy is more fun. And that's really, you know, we play the game for fun. And so I think it is far more fun with more flex spots. So we all went underrated there. Okay, underrated, overrated, is far more fun with more flex box. So we all went underrated there.

Okay, underrated, overrated, the Washington Commander's offense in 2025. So moving forward. Commander's offense, underrated, overrated. Three, two, one. Okay, all right. We got two overrated. I went underrated and you both went overrated.

I did. So, the majority can speak first. You both put overrated, it was an impressive year. 16 points per game last year. Yeah, I mean, they obviously are great. Whenever we talk about the commanders, we talk about, hey, they're a good offense. I've talked about, you know, Brian Robinson.

You want to target him at the very end of drafts because he's on a good offense. And while I still see the commanders as a good offense, I think they are overrated. I think that people are expecting their offense to be better in year two of Jayden Daniels than in year one. And that makes sense. He was a rookie. Yeah, that sounds great to me.

Should get better. They were sixth in points per game. They were fifth in total yards per game. Like, they're not going to top that this season. They had a super easy schedule last year, one of the easiest in the league. That is going completely the other direction this year. You know, Cliff Kingsbury, he's had some good offenses before, but it's also not something that can't be figured out. This was a quarterback that really surprised a lot of teams with how good he was, how mobile, and you know,

year two, it doesn't always get better, C.J. Stroud. No, no. Sometimes the offense can take a hit. The teams in your division have an offseason to game plan to draft and sign players for your division mates. So I think right now that whether, if you had to, if I had to put a dollar on whether the Washington commander's offense scores more points or fewer points this coming season, then I would put it on fewer. Where I'm going overrated is it gives me vibes of, not last year's Ravens, but before that,

where it was this extremely high powered offense. I'm not saying they're overrated in terms of, I think there's massive regression to the offense overall. I think Jadon's the truth. But it's like those Baltimore teams, you were really excited for Lamar. You were pretty excited for Mark Andrews and then who, like for a team with, that's giving this, this incredibly high powered offense, you don't want pieces

of it because it's so sporadic when it actually happens and Terry McLaurin won't take the season away from him. Q or, uh, notB, wide receiver five. But he had under 1,100 yards. And I don't know that that can go up very much. And I like taking the shot on Brian Robinson too, even Austin Eckler, but I don't take the shot on him because I'm excited about their players

and really thinking it's going to work out. It's just a lotto ticket at the end of the draft. Yeah, I mean, I think it is. Also, I saw Debo running around. Yeah, no, I mean, look, Debo is part of the argument for underrated, the fact that you have another weapon in the offense that is going to be explosive play potential. And if you look at the progression of Jaden Daniels,

like his stat lines are not like some something outlier, right? This is not a 40 touchdown Lamar Jackson passing touchdown season. He threw 25 touchdowns. His pass attempt pace, he was a rookie. Like he first half of the year, he's averaging, he was on pace for like 430 passing attempts. Back half of the year, it's like 600. Like they gave him more and he did more with it. He had prolific fantasy performances against top defenses. You can talk about the schedule all you want. I mean, 36 points against the Eagles.

They won the Superbowl. That's a pretty good performance. 26 points against the top tier Dallas defense. Uh, a couple of weeks before that, Jayden Daniels has proven time and time again that when you doubt him, you regret it. And so I do think that there's a little bit of nuance to the answer because if you want to say overrated for fantasy purposes because of selecting you know being able to identify which wide receiver on one giving week or is it

Zach Ertz or God forbid Ben Sennett or somebody making... I'm willing to change my answer Washington. Yeah. Forbid. Forbid. Yeah. We put Ertz on the bench, and we put a superstar in. But I think the offense itself is. Point for game will skyrocket. I think it's underrated. I think we have seen quite a few offenses that you want to look to the pushback.

And look, it was about Stroud in Houston. It wasn't necessarily at the offense. It was a top five offense. But like with Detroit, when they've been doubted, they've had multiple years in a row of success. When Miami was doubted with McDaniels, they had multiple years of success before a fallback year last year and half of it to a tongue of Iloha out there. But I do think that the momentum continues. Washington is doing everything right. So that's the side I'm on. I'm going to be the lone commander here, but we'll take a break and we've got a lot more underrated overrated to go. That's the side I'm on. I'm gonna be the lone commander here.

But we'll take a break and we've got a lot more underrated, overrated to go. ["Dog on Fire"] All right, you guys ready for our next one? Yes. Let me get back. This one I think will be a little fun. A little fun?

Yeah, because it's very obvious. Let's just get to it. All right, yards per carry in general. Yards per carry as a stat, underrated or overrated? Think about it for a second. Those of you out there, think about what your answer would be, yards per carry, underrated or overrated. I wish there was a third sign in some ways.

Okay, let's see. All right, underrated or overrated, three, two, one. Once again, I stand alone. Here we go, I fixed my side. I'm underrated. That's about where I'm at. Mike turned it sideways. Jason and Mike with underrated. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, I think Chris Harris has always talked about how bad a stat it is. I feel like I say that. I'm like, here's his yards per carry. I'm like, it's not the best stat. Yeah, it's not the best stat. So I assumed we would all say it's overrated. But I want to speak up for yards per carry for a second, because the truth is I know that there's different backs. There's goal line backs versus the explosive backs.

It's not always fair. The guy who is getting the fourth and one carries all the time. Yeah, that's not going to be as helpful for him. But in the end, efficiency really matters for fantasy football. Yeah, it does. Let me read the best yards per carry out there in the league this last year. In order, Derek Henry, Saquon Barkley, Jameer Gibbs, Bucky Irving, Jordan Mason, James Cook, and B. John Robson. No, Jordan Mason was good, but. Yeah, limited touches.

Limited touches, he was very good for fantasy when he had the job. And so I feel like, yeah, you're right, Mike. Even we, we crap on that stat. We say like, oh, yards per carry is not a good stat. I don't know, man, maybe it is. So I'm saying it's underrated in the sense that... I was, I'm surprised at your answer. Sure, yeah. I thought you'd, and Mike you went that way too, so do you want to... I went that way because of, Jason laid out a good argument, and it's to me if a, if a player is a workhorse, you know, they're getting 200 plus carries, and you know, they're getting all this volume,

You know, they're getting 200 plus carries. And, you know, they're getting all this volume. But I think that does speak to, if you're a full-time workhorse and you're under four a carry, like to me is that, you know, you need to do better. The problem with the stat is the team and the offensive line can affect things so much. That's where I would go.

And I think that there are some situations where we've watched NFL teams devalue this step. Josh Jacobs got a hefty contract, big deal, 3.5 a carry his last year in Las Vegas. That number did not rule the day when the team, when Green Bay decided we're gonna bring him back in and he was at 4.4 in a new offense. Similarly with Joe Mixon, looked at as a workhorse.

Ken Walker was I think sub four last year and it's like he's forcing more missed tackles per run than anybody else in the league. It is a fallback stat sometimes that we use here on the show. It's not complete enough. But that's why I would say it's overrated is that it is not nuanced enough to take away the salting away the game at the end. The defensive front is not factored in, right? You're facing

an eight man front versus an empty box, goal line carries, fourth down plunges, all of these different things. Now in the grand scheme, it's pretty good at indicating efficiency over a huge amount of carries. I agree with that, but there's some variability there year to year. Sometimes you get a big play because we didn't talk about that at all, right? Like okay you make a big play, your yards per carry is going to be affected by a 74 yard run, right? In a way that doesn't really show your efficiency on a down by down basis. It's just a balancing act. You're not losing 74 on another carry, right,

to even it out. So. I do think it's a, so I mean, in general, I don't love the stat. I just wanted to give it its due, because we do actually fall into looking at this for legitimate, real, you know, we look at the life arc of running backs a lot of times and as they age and you start seeing those efficiency numbers go down and down, it's a is efficient or inefficient. And more often than not, I realize, like everything you're saying is 100% right.

It's so not nuanced. There's so much more to whether a running back is good or is not than that silly little stat. But more often than not, it's really helpful, and it's correct. I will tell you this, if you are arguing for a player that I disagree with, and I can look at our website and see that his yards for Kerry have diminished for any sort of trend, I will throw that in your face.

Exactly. I will throw that right in your face. All right, overrated, underrated, this one's interesting. Rostering two quarterbacks in a one quarterback league. Two quarterbacks in a one quarterback league. I quarterbacks in a one quarterback league. I would say before we vote, you know, there's not something that I think we've prescribed very often.

So I guess thinking about it fresh. All right, I've got mine figured out. Two quarterbacks in a one quarterback league, keeping them on your roster, underrated, overrated. Three, two, one. Under, oh! All right, we all three. I have turned around dramatically on this.

We all went underrated here, and we have a segment on the podcast every single week, quarterback streamer of the week, which is the idea there is, look, if you don't have one of those top tier guys and you need to find a good start this week, that's what we're giving you on the show, but that also presupposes you're grabbing them

off the waiver wire. You don't have them on your roster already. And the way that I used to handle that is, if I went into, okay, I took a later round quarterback, it didn't work out. I can stream. That's part of the argument, a part of an argument for being able to wait on quarterback is if it doesn't work in the draft,

you can stream and as long as you know the right things to look for, very often you can stream and get, you know, a top 12 performance. You're not going to be streaming the top three guy every week, but you're going to have a strong enough team that you can just find quarterback points off the waiver wire. And the way I used to do it was I would just drop whoever my quarterback was because I'm like I'm not not wasting a spot on a second quarterback and just over time I have run into issues on certain weeks. I'm like I shouldn't have dropped that guy. I didn't look at his next week's schedule. It was just, it was too rash to. I know why it's changed, Mike.

Why is that? Because this has changed over time. If you're a long-time listener of the show, I mean, we would have told everybody, when you're drafting a second quarterback, don't do it. There was no need in single quarterback leagues. But there is actually need now, because over time, the fantasy football landscape shifts and the late round

quarterback model became more and more popular. And as that happened and people were streaming, more people in your league start holding onto two quarterbacks. And as soon as they do, now all of a sudden streaming off the waiver wire isn't that good. You gotta look a couple weeks into the future. You gotta play the matchup game like you do.

Yeah, supply and demand has gone down. Exactly, and so right now today in 2025, I think it's an underrated strategy. You also give yourself the opportunity in draft season to go after the big wild card players that could be awesome for fantasy football like Justin Fields or Anthony Richardson or these guys that's like,

I don't want to have that be my quarterback, but what if? You know, I want the chance. Yeah, no, it makes sense. I think it has changed a little, but we never would have, I think, voted that way about five years ago. No, and even in the draft,

years ago, I would never have drafted two quarterbacks. And then, you know, finding a late round guy who runs as opposed to, like, hey I'm gonna take my shot on this sleeper and I hope in four weeks, three to four weeks, I know if this guy's gonna pay off. With a quarterback, Justin Fields go out, if week one he runs for 75, throws for 180 and two touchdowns, people are gonna to be sweaty for Justin Fields immediately. I just think the the timing of knowing if that quarterback is going to pay off, I think there's a there's a slightly higher probability

you'll know early and then you can make moves accordingly. Yeah, I know that makes sense. All right, next one. Mike McDaniel as a play caller. So the Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel going into year four. Underrated or overrated? We'll see what the reaction is like after last year. Underrated, overrated. Mike McDaniel as a play caller. Three, two, one.

I'm going over. Mike went over, Jason. I'm going overrated as well. I took going over. Mike went over, Jason. I'm going overrated as well. I took underrated. OK. The cheese continues to stand alone over here. I love that short area, Johnny. Look, I will start this one just with my defense

of Mike McDaniel. There are years that are just plain, they circle the drain early and they just don't work out. That's how I look at last season. Sometimes you can't even flush a turd. No. I've been there, brother. Got to get that poop knife. Sometimes it builds a bridge.

You know what I'm saying? Please tell me that's not a thing. It is not a thing for me, but it is a real thing in the world. You're just through into the show. No way, we just made it, if people out there have not read the legendary Poop Knife store. No, because it's real for some people.

I'll tell you what, Poop Knife, underrated. No, no. Poop Knife is underrated. How do I even get back to football? Anyways, where were you going? You were talking about Flushing a Turd. I thought Mike be Daniels. The season last year was just an unmitigated failure

for the Dolphins, but there were a lot of extenuating circumstances on this roster. And they began with Tua Tunga Wailoa, the injury, and the uncertainty around his return. He's crucial to the offense. Tyreek Hill, the injury, his lack of performing. The last two years, number five and number two in points per game, we already saw him follow up a debut head coaching season with a better season. They were one of five teams to average 4.6 plus yards per

play over the last three years. I think the resume speaks for itself. I think last year, you look at what happened and it was just a mess. I mean, I know that there's a lot of negativity around them and for good reason, they don't beat good teams very often. But from a fantasy perspective, I am happier to know Mike McDaniel as the head coach and offensive play caller for that team than I would be somebody else.

So he's still on that side for me. So I'm gonna go underrated. he's still on that side for me. So I'm gonna go underrated. He's definitely on the side of, I would prefer to have him versus like a defensive minded head coach for my fantasy players. However, the can't be good teams narrative, it's been sticky. I mean, we're talking about just teams over 500

in the last three years. His record is three and 14 against them. And oftentimes in those games, those aren't close games. They don't look like, they look like a team that when they play bad teams, they just, they've got a gimmick, they've got a schtick, and the other bad teams can't figure it out. But if you're a good team, you're like,

oh, we'll just, no problem. And so I feel like he got a little bit overrated with you know look when you've got speed like Devon H. Ann and Tyree Kill and Jalen Waddle you can come onto the scene and really surprise. The scene's two years? Three years of the scene? All I know is last year they figured him out after 34 games I mean he was number one in Points per game two years ago number two, but yes, and then number 18 this last year Obviously you lose a little bit of Tua but a lot of bit. Well, yeah, you you missed several games And then when you got to a back it

Just wasn't the same and so I don't know and you blame Mike McDaniel for that I don't blame Mike McDaniel solely and only for that at all, but I do think he is seen as this Real Mastermind and I'm not sure he's a mastermind. I think he's clever. I think the shines wearing off. Yeah, so Rapidly I'm saying publicly. I think people are more and more out on him. But for me, it's Like some of the metrics and watching Tyreek last year it is weird. I was infuriated watching the Dolphins last year. It is weird that if your if your superpower is offense and calling plays how are you not getting these guys

the ball more? Well I mean they... You go with John- Yeah, I mean, a lot of the metrics. If you look at Tyreek, he was he was just as effective when you did give him the opportunity. That's what I mean. You know what the record was last year? I mean, that was a bad year where they lost their quarterback and had lots of issues. They still went eight and nine. They still went eight and nine. I think we look at last year and we've got this narrative of the three and 14 against winning teams and it's fair.

Do you think he's the head coach in 2026? Yes. Yeah, I think they're gonna be okay. So split opinions there. How about Caleb Williams? Just Caleb Williams, underrated, overrated. I thought this would be an interesting name to bring up because he's polarizing.

So underrated, overrated Caleb Williams there's a time shaking your head over there I'm gonna make you make a choice all right three two one once again oh yeah yeah yeah you are so smart you're and you said you were gonna get the right answer and we have you know what I mean? We're nailing my opinions right here Okay, I'm all alone on the underrated and this is for right now. It could change just watching him play last year I know I know the offensive line was horrifically bad but he

Just more often than not looked like he was completely outmatched at every level and I know we had we had a few fantasy games where they're getting just absolutely demolished in the first half and they have to mount a comeback and he's able to put up some points and and they still lose but his fantasy day is sort of salvaged. Yeah, he had five finishes in the top six at the quarterback position. I'm gonna be honest I'm shocked that Jason voted the way he did. I don't know if he just wanted to be with you again on the vote. I didn't know what he was voting.

I'm completely shocked because I feel like, I don't feel like you believe in what you put up. Okay, so. Or you want to believe in what you put up. I certainly don't want to believe what I put up. I hope Caleb Williams is excellent. The fact that you get three new offensive linemen at that Center and good ones like they they totally Upgraded that offensive line and amazingly three dudes playing Center. Yeah. Wow one guard really wide Jersey

Good plan Ben Johnson coming over like like I'm really hopeful that Caleb Williams is a Superstar and I went into this season, especially after those transactions over like I'm really hopeful that Caleb Williams is a superstar. Yes, I'm hopeful too. And I went into this season, especially after those transactions, believing that, thinking that, when I went through the first pass of the UDK, you know, I'm pretty bullish on the opportunities. I still want to draft DJ Moore. I still want to draft Roma Dunze because the avenue for them to have great successes is clear and obvious. The truth is, I went back and I watched him after all of that, and he, it was just simply

clean pockets, passing to guys, not giving them catchable balls. That was my issue. I'm like, wait, this is, that can't be, you can't be an inaccurate quarterback and thrive and succeed. He was 44th and 47 qualifying quarterbacks in catchable target rate, you saw that.

He had 31% pressure to sack rate, where he is part of the reason he's taking the sacks. I know that the offensive line was bad, but that was, only Will Levis was worse than that. And so I just watched the film and I was like, man, I don't know why he's not able, he kept throwing it behind people so much. And you can correct that. Josh Allen was, you know, is the poster child for inaccurate, not consistent into super

duper star MVP caliber MVP. He's the most MVP MVP. MVP caliber MVP. Well, I was saying MVP caliber player. He's the most MVP MVP. MVP caliber MVP. Well I was saying MVP caliber player. But he won the MVP this year, right? Yeah he did. And Josh Allen, to be fair,

I mean he was a 52% passer as a rookie. Caleb Williams was a 62.5% passer as a rookie. And I think I'm going to choose to believe a lot of that had to do with pressing, offensive line situations. So if you talk about uncatchable balls. Bad play color, bad play designs as well. Yeah, and so you need to be more accurate, I agree. You need to give your receivers a better opportunity

to make plays for you, I agree with that. He missed guys all the time. It's not a defense of a rookie season. That's not what I think an underrated viewpoint is hinging upon. It's a projection towards the future and seeing enough elite performances where this was not a rookie that came out here

and laid an egg in every moment of every game. It was trying to do too much, taking too many sacks, playing for a really bad offensive line, getting a little gun shy, missing guys when you needed to hit them, but still showing me enough elite performances for fantasy that I think that that's in the range, his range of outcomes is very,

like there's a positive Caleb Williams story to be told, and I think we could get it with the level of weapons they had, they invest in Colston Loveland and Luther Burden, and you've still got a Doonze in year two and DJ Moore, so I'm excited about it. I would have, I would be a little bit more excited if they had brought in somebody who had more confidence in it running back

than Deandre Swift, but I'm gonna still vote on that side. I am very, I'm a very proud papa of the fantasy community here. We haven't yet overreacted, I believe, to the addition of Ben Johnson being the head coach of the Chicago Bears like where we are this year compared to last year it seems like a much healthier spot for all Bears yeah for all I'm talking about 80 peas where he's the QB 14 right now compared to

the QB 12 and if you remember last year, all three, Keenan, DJ Moore and Rome were all like top five, top six round picks. And it was, and I talked about Rome on one of our bus shows, I think it was, and I'm like, it can't, it's impossible for it to work for all three of these guys. So I'm gonna pick Rome to be the one

that I think is the lowest odds, but it was just a, we were so, as I'm saying we, the fantasy community, so hyped for Caleb and the pass catchers there that it got out of control, and it's been more managed this year. And to the point where it is, it's okay. I don't love, I'm still not on Team Rome

having the year two breakout. But in round seven, okay, I'll take that chance. Now that Cale's played a year, we know how it go wrong. Yeah. And we didn't- Poor quarterback play. Didn't. I'm just saying that's how it could go.

It was a part of the issue. Look, I hemmed and hawed before this. This wasn't an easy one for me, and I don't think it's a slam dunk. It's just if I have to pick one. Which you did. I'm on the underrated, the overrated side. We're gonna take one more break,

and then we're gonna come back. I've got a handful more of these that we're gonna get through. It's been fun. ["Dog on Fire"] All right, I think this one is, I might still be deciding on it. We're gonna go overrated or underrated or overrated with completion percentage. Underrated or overrated with completion percentage.

I think this one's really tough because I could see a justification for both answers. But all right, I think I have my answer. All right, three, two, one, of course. Underrated, baby. Oh my goodness, Mike and I are together almost every time. I've got all the right answers, Jay. You wrote them down, I'm copying. So I went overrated.

I'm shocked at your answer on this one. Jason went underrated, Mike went underrated. I would not have answered this way three years ago. I'm gonna answer your answer on this one. Jason went underrated, Mike went underrated. I would not have answered this way three years ago. I'm gonna answer overrated on this one because I do believe that much like yards per carry, there is an aspect of nuance here that has entered the playing field. There was a time in which I feel like

the direct correlation of completion percentage and fantasy excellence, I mean, it was right in your face. And the Drew Brees era, right? And he was elite, you know, he was special. He broke all the records in that department. But you do have offensive systems now where players can go out and they can dink and dunk in short area targets, your targets and there's no deep at you know depth of target throws so I do feel like it can get a little bit overrated and telling you the story of what a player can do. So Geno Smith might be an example of somebody that really high completion percentage somebody I don't believe in as much as a fantasy option or as an NFL star. Derek Carr very high completion percentage same category we

could all watch with our eyeballs and say well high completion percentage, same category, we could all watch with our eyeballs and say, well, the completion percentage is not translating to greatness. Tuah. Tuah? Yeah, Tuah's a good example. I mean, he was number one in 72.9%. Jared Goff even, who we talked about

on the Jameson Williams sleeper show, like, Jared Goff wasn't throwing the ball deep very much. And he's a really good quarterback. I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I'm saying it's overrated if that's your standalone metric. So what's funny is the reason I'm underrated and I think it's a good metric is not for the good completion percentage.

Everything you just said, I agree with. It's for the bad? It's for the bad and that's why I'm shocked you didn't go underrated because over the last couple years. About dogging Anthony Richardson? Exactly right. Over the last couple years, when we hold on to, you know, I know Josh Allen is that poster child of the completion percentage changing, but he's not just a poster child. He's it. He's the only one. Like, when you bet against guys with bad completion percentages,

you win. You win other than Josh Allen. It is an indicator of the worst quarterbacks in the league, and especially in today's day and age. So I don't look at the top end and say this guy's great because he's completing 70% of his passes. What are the passes? Just dink and dunk so many screens in today's NFL.

But if you can't in today's NFL have a high completion percentage, you might be an inaccurate, inconsistent quarterback, and that don't work in the NFL. I am more underrated on the bad completion percentage. I think you do reach a Mendoza line of sorts. There's a point you get to where, that's a baseball reference, you wouldn't understand it. I did not understand it.

You are correct. There's a point where, yeah, you go below a certain mark, I completely agree. Alex Smith was always the poster child of super high completion percentages. He had a 70% completion percentage season where he averaged seven fantasy points a game. So, yeah, it doesn't tell the whole story, but I agree.

I think there's a point, you get below a certain point and you are not, it's not possible to be a successful NFL quarterback. And you just, you need to keep drives alive. You need to find your second, maybe your third read and just making good, it's part of like, you're making good decisions. You know, sometimes you're gonna take your chance and just, you missed on that one, okay.

So I think overall, if I'm, we've all said it, I'm betting on it. If you can have a good completion percentage, I'm gonna bet on you being at least a competent quarterback who I'm okay having fantasy weapons for you. Didn't we, I'm remembering this with Aaron Rodgers, he had some completion percentage metrics that people began to believe he was working to preserve on a career perspective with decision making.

And if that does become too prolific in a quarterback's mind, it can impact taking your shots down the field. We've had these quarterbacks in fantasy history where it's like, oh, like, Derek Carr, like, please just throw it, throw it, throw it down the, oh, you took another check down. All right. Overrated, underrated, Isaiah likely tight end of the Baltimore Ravens. Overrated, underrated, Isaiah likely 25 years old.

Lived with Mark Andrews there. Jason's face is that of a terrified man. All right. All right. We'll see what he weighs in here. He's really, he's struggling here. Overrated, underrated, Isaiah likely, I think he's a fun topic for 2025. Three, two, one, what will you two pick together?

Overrated. Oh, Andy, we're together. Oh my gosh, this is what it feels like to be part of the majority. Part of the correct is what you were looking for. Mike went with overrated, I went underrated, Jason went underrated, Mike go ahead. So when we, the story of Isaiah Leckley is essentially week one last year,

and where he had, he exploded. You know, in game one of the season, everybody is watching it, gets 12 targets, goes nine for 111 and a score. And was that like a one big toe away from tying it. And we all, and Mark Andrews had essentially nothing and it was, oh, it happened. Isaiah likely is the guy. Mark Andrews is completely dust and then look over the

last three years you know fewer receptions than Austin Hooper. He has the same receiving touchdowns as Juwan Johnson and it's he's a, I think he's a fine NFL player but for and I'm okay with people having the take of I think Mark Andrews is on truly on the downside and he's not gonna be really fantasy relevant to me that doesn't make Isaiah likely just rip this isn't just copy paste over Isaiah likely turns into the Mark Andrews stats you know I went back and watched week one because I was I was I was watching for Rashad Bateman of after he got that extension and it was like man there were so many plays where Isaiah likely was I was watching for Rashad Bateman after he got that extension,

and it was like, man, there were so many plays where Isaiah Likely was not, he was not a part of that plan. It was Lamar Jackson scrambled forever and then happened to find Isaiah Likely, and then, and Likely, to his credit, made some stuff happen with the Targets. But it's so, for me, it's just a,

I don't think he's taking over for Mark Andrews. I think it's far more likely that Mark Andrews bounces back this year than Isaiah likely takes the step and becomes the tight end we want for the Baltimore Ravens. I think we're still one year away, because you talk about Austin Hooper's reception, Jawan Johnson's reception. I don't care about cumulative stuff right now.

Those guys weren't playing behind Mark Andrews on the team. Like, Isaiah likely is not going to go out there and dominate stats-wise while Mark Andrews is playing the majority of the snaps as the primary pass catching tight end over the last several years. Mark Andrews is on the roster this year, so from a redraft perspective,

I think without Mark Andrews being injured, yeah, Andrews probably isn't gonna step up. So from a redraft perspective, I think without Mark Andrews being injured, yeah, Andrews probably isn't gonna step up. We have seen him step up though, like nine career games without Andrews, 11 half PPR points per game, that is outstanding for a tight end. I think we know he can do it. And from a dynasty perspective,

I believe Mark Andrews is one and done with the Ravens this year, and that the 25 year old Isaiah likely is the future. They'll resign him. Yeah, they're gonna need to pay him. Yeah, yeah, he's in his last contract, right? Yeah, last year of his contract, yep. And so I think this is more of a future play,

which works at the tight end position. Usually if you got a guy going into year four, and you're like, ah, he hasn't really done anything, the one position I would want it to be would be tight end. It's slow to start and then you put someone behind. The team has always, since rookie years, talked about him, how special he's looked, how good he is and it's like,

well then why hasn't he broken out? Well, he's been playing behind. I don't know if Mark Andrews is a Hall of Famer. He's also had breakout games, which is enough if you're the backup tight end to me. I would not expect him to have done anything more than what he's done until he is the guy, until he can get more than 58 targets in a season. The question will be, will he be allowed to become the guy?

And that'll really be the answer to this question, because if he never gets the chance to be the guy from this team or another team to be the primary pass catching then then then he's overrated right now because some of us are waiting for that to happen. Yeah I would I'd love Isaiah likely as a late week one flyer to see what things look like on this offense. Maybe the snap shares and target counts go likely first, Andrew's second this year? Not that he can beat last year's week one and you can still be wrong, but. That was 20% of his targets.

I mean, Jim Harbaugh came out and talked about, their expectations is all pro performances from Isaiah Leichle this year. He's definitely the future. There's a reason they talked about trading Mark Andrews all throughout draft season. His time is coming to an end, and so I'd like to be on the front end

of a very athletic tight end that has shown high end performances, so that's why I lean on the underrated side, because I don't think we've got to see it all. We just, when he's full time, Jason mentioned it, the numbers are great when he's full time. All right, we got time for probably one more. Let's go contested catches. Overrated, underrated,

contested catches. What do you think? This one's interesting. Do you already have your answers? I have my answers. Jason's over here. He's sorting his thumbs again. Sorting his thumbs, thumbs up, thumbs down. Contested catches, oh gosh. All right, I got it. You guys got yours? Yeah, oh no. Three, two, one.

Oh my goodness. It's a triple overrated. We started unanimous, we end unanimous. All with overrated. So tell me why you answered, because this one was hard for me. You know, I started with the perspective of like, all the best receivers I've ever known are incredible at that skill. But there's also been players that are

completely irrelevant as wide receivers that have been pretty good at that skill. So I wonder... The reason I think it's overrated is it's a very not sticky stat. You look at some players who, you know, one year, Jawan Jennings has two contested catches on 33% catch rate on those. The next year he has 18 and catches 75%. T Higgins one year has four contested catches on only 30%. He's always bad at it. And then the next year, he's great at it. He's got 16 on 61%.

Where I like and care about contested catches is I don't love contested catch college superstars because it scares me for separate. That's why I'm overrated. Because contested catch college DBs are not- You should not be so contested in college. You should be separating. If you are the elite 1% of college football players at the wider zero position and you're going to make it in the league, you shouldn't be

having contested catches all the time. Yeah, being good at contested catches is a great skill to have. Having a ton of data on that, but that data point is like a yellow, maybe red flag. When I'm doing my prospect scouting of college players and I'm looking at how, like, what percentage of your targets are contested? Like, that's a negative to me. Well, it's funny because I think about Mike Williams in college and being a big-bodied receiver that

could go up and get it. Drake London, the last two years, has led the league in back-to-back years at this skill. so it's obviously a special talent for him. There are play calls and play designs and when you see the disparity between 23 and 24 I think at times that's what it comes down to. Like if you're inside the 10 and you want to throw a fade and you if you catch it it's contested. That's this basically how that works. Right. And so there are players Larry Fitzgerald, Des Bryant, Brandon Marshall, Deandre Hopkins. Des Bryant, just like grunk house. Simple out route or whatever that thing was, was nearly unstoppable. And look, I don't know, there's

probably not a ton of short contested catchers out there either. So we all went overrated because I think, you know, different ways to win out there. Like I always think of Allen Robinson too. Like Allen Robinson had a horrible, like it was a high contested catch percentage and it was like not a lot of average yards of separation. Same with Brandon Marshall. But they were elite wide receivers because-

Yeah, for a time, yeah. Because they knew how to use their physicality, right? Like the physicality aspect comes, that's what we look at with Drake London. He does bully DBs, that's part of it. So. Yeah, the thing of like talking about those two guys is like Brandon Marshall,

he still had it for a long time. Alan Robinson, I mean, I assume it was, you know, some of the injuries just caught up with him because his career was shorter than it should have been. Yes, from a peak, like prime? Yeah, his years of dominance was short, and that's what I mean, if that's your thing, that can go away quicker,

where if you're like, all I can do is be fast. Well that you won't hold up to that forever and you've got to be able to do other things. You've got to be able to get open. You got to be able to run a good route tree because you'll be helpful to a team for a few years but if you're trying if your goal is greatness and long-term success you got to be able to get open. Fun interesting fact Kyle pointed out just 9% of all wide receiver receptions are contested catches. Perfect example of why it's overrated.

There's so many things that are talked about a lot. Third down backs. You know, where it's like, you don't realize how small a percentage of targets come from the third down. It's talked about way more than it's actually impactful. All right, that is gonna do it for this new segment, underrated, overrated.

Would you consider the segment to be- I give this show one big underrated show. Oh boy, oh boy, these are really big thumbs. Dude, you could kill someone with this. This is, yeah. All right, we're gonna wrap it up. That's high quality. We've got some fun shows. We don't mess around here.

Next week, we got another mock draft episode. This was the entire year's production budget. Yeah, this was our production budget. On these big yellow thumbs. Well, I mean, it's good. You can see them from a distance. Yeah. Al Borley.

A lot of people think that these were like die cut. These were Smithed. These were- They're metal? Yeah. Yes, sir. Okay. You know metal.

All right. Mock draft next week. Footballers AMA episode. We're going to have some fun before we get into July where we're three shows a week, August through the end of the year, five shows a week. Check out the Ultimate Draft Kit at ultimatedraftkit.com and the community at jointhefoot.com. Take care. Goodbye.

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on JoinTheFoot.com and follow us on Twitter at The FF Ballers.