Fin vs History - A Long Back and Sides | Feudal Japan (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon ⁠https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor CHAPTERS: 00:00 The Suicidal 60s 04:55 Militant Buddhism 09:52 Siege of Mount Hiei 12:58 Ieyasu's Plea 15:31 Nagashino Killzone 22:25 The Age of the Ninja 27:36 Nobunaga’s Great Unifiers 34:07 Bald Rat Coup 39:37 Prime Minister Yoshi 44:08 Hostage Exchange Alliance Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to Finn versus History. I'm joined as ever by Hiratio Gould. And we are talking again about Feudal Japan. Yes. Part two of our Feudal Japan series. We'd got up to the end of the 1550s, I believe, 1560 odd. Yeah, we're entering the 60s. It's the 60s.

60s in Japan. Very different 60s. Very different 60s. The suicidal 60s. Swinging from a tree because you've hung yourself because that's a good thing. Yeah. Perfect Sunday. What's a perfect Sunday in feud of Japan?

To walk me through it. I would say, you know, you've got your favorite Subucus sword. Yeah. Polish thing. Give that. Wake up. Give that polish. You're not having...

Birds tweeting outside and then you sort of bleed out for 90 minutes. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I'd say, you know, you wake up. Yeah. You take your shoes off. because he's upside down well so you sleep in your shoes probably

there's no tables you have your breakfast on the floor like a dog but that's a good thing because you're in Japan you kiss your child boyfriend you kiss your child boyfriend out of honor

who's not respect who's not allowed to penetrate you that would be awful you're not a pedo you're not a pedo you bum boys you bum boys

and then I'd say you wake up you have your tea you make the tea ceremony that takes about four hours four hours to brew your tea and then you put the milk in... Japanese tea is like French lunch, isn't it?

Yeah. It's just hours on end. And yet the Japanese are still very productive, though. Yeah, it's true. They don't have the same productivity issues the French do. Yeah, it's because they're killing themselves. Anyone who's not working should be killing themselves

and then freeing up the economy to be able to work. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you take your tea, four hours. You put the milk in first. You go, fuck, and then you get your sword out and you cut open your belly. Bleed up for 90 minutes. Bleed up for 90 minutes.

Yeah, if Carlsberg did Sundays. If Carlsberg did Sundays. Anyway, we are talking about Odu Nobunaga Who in our last episode we left off He'd taken over his clan And he had done a daring night attack On the Yoshimoto

Woohoo And he is now won He's won the Is it, what's the first? Is it Cooper Trooper Beach? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah In his story In his story

He's won He's come first in Cooper Trooper Beach What's the first cup Called on Maricart, Charlie this would be next Because I've been playing the new merry cart world. This is right up your street. A lot, but they've slightly changed it. They've got a lot of the classic things, but I don't know what the...

It's the fucking mushroom cup. Mushroom Cup, right. So this, in this stage, Nobunaga's won the Mushroom Cup. So we've seen the cut scene where we go to the palace and they're all... And it goes on for fucking ages and you can't skip it. So he's won that, but his next challenge will be his hardest challenge yet, which is the...

What's the next cup, Charlie? Charlie, Charlie, why have you got Mario Luigi porn on the screen? Just to sort of provide context? No, it's important to the situation. Look at those, look at the Mario Luigi hentai. My God, come on. This is my childhood. Come on, barely three minutes into an episode.

It's the flower cup. It's a long Japanese tradition, though. You're right, actually, in the last episode, we saw some wood-carved porn from the 17th century. It's an ancient lineage. It clearly is. Hentai begins in the 18th century. Anyway, so his next challenge

will be to win the Flower Cup. A bit trickier. It is trickier. Tougher turns. What courses? What courses? What courses are in the Flower Cup? Yeah, what courses?

Literally can play Maricard all week. Really? Yeah, genuinely. How old are you? I'm 28. Right. Amy Winehouse was dead at 27. Yeah.

Well, maybe she wasn't paying enough Maricardt. Maybe not. Maybe she'd pay more Maricard cart and did less heroin. That's what it is. Toge Turnpike. Frappy. Frappe snowland. I hate that one. Choco Mountain.

I'd love to go there. A Mario Raceway. Mario Raceway. So I don't like the Snowland because it's the penguins that you hit into. I don't like that one. I don't go to Mario for snow. No. For exotic colours.

Beach. Cooper Beach is the best one. Luigi's Hole. Luigi's Hole? Yeah. Which cup is that in? It's in the bonus round. Luigi's hole.

You go inside Luigi's asshole and there's lots of turns. Yeah. Then you have to reverse out. You come out of his mouth. You come out of his mouth. Yeah. Right. Okay.

And you break all his teeth. Anyway, after taking Kyoto in 1568, Odunobunaga turns to take total control. So he sees the Awari clan, but now all the other warlords think this guy's some, this guy's a fucking, this guy's a nonce, or whatever. This widespread resentment,

and all his enemies begin to coordinate against him. So it's kind of all out war against Nognaga. Like a sort of flash mob. Sort of. Now, to truly consolidate his power, Nobunaga must. neutralize all alternate authorities that remain, especially the great temples of Buddhism.

Buddhism, it's a respect to religion, but they've also, they've got their own basically private militaries, these Buddhist temples. So they're actually quite like a powerful force at this moment of Japan. And again, I don't really understand that. You hear talk of militant Buddhism, Buddhism, Buddhism. Militin Buddhism, but it's very hard to imagine these peaceful Harry Krishna's in their orange things and their shaved heads.

And I know Harry Krishna is a different thing. Is it the same? Is it the same? What's Harry Krishna? Harry Krishna, they're fucking sickos of Harry Krishna. In like Piccadilly Circus, they're always bothering me. They always think I'm going to be susceptible to Harry Christian. Are they Buddhist or are they something else?

I know. I think like freelance sort of. Freelance? Yeah. Right, that wasn't the question. They're not P.A.Y. Right. Okay.

They're taxed at source. Harry Krishna's devotional form of Hinduism. Right. Okay. So it's completely different. Yeah. It's entirely. different, but the clothes are quite similar.

They both from India. Is it? I thought Buddhism was in China. No, most of these religions are from India. Yoga? Yeah. Lul lemon? Fuck it.

Lululemon? Yeah. Is that from India? Yoga's religion, yeah. Buddhism started in northern India. There you go. Yeah. Thanks, Charlie.

That was a really good Google. Thank you. There was no point in that at all. Yeah. We should actually do an episode on the birth of Buddhism. Anyway, so in Japan, in the 16th century, The Buddhist, no, do not, no, try to fuck say, Bowser porn of all the characters. Getting railed.

Bowser getting railed. When I went into work this morning, I did not think I would have to see Bowser getting railed. Because you can imagine Bowser railing. Getting railed is an interesting... Stop watching my granddad, get rail. It's my childhood. Bowser. I always used to pick Bowser.

Type in Finn's Grandad getting railed. Don't type in Finn's Grandad getting railed. Do you know what I used to pick? I used to pick Bowser. because I felt an affinity with him because I was massive. And it's like when I was playing Pokemon at school,

people used to call me Snorlax. You being like, I understand what you've been through, Bowser. I never went through that. Is that why you picked Bowser? Because you related to him. No, anyway. Fucking hell.

So there's militant Buddhists of the, they're called the Eco Iki. It's a misconception that Buddhists are all peaceful because that's our view. They're obviously a religion that's managed to survive this long

you have to fucking slap some people about. But I guess because the other countries' religions are much more tied to their identity whereas Japan is this melting pot of Shinto, Buddhism, Confuciism, suicide. It's a teapot, yes, it's a Japanese teapot.

So it's not quite a sort of militaristic and yet you still have Buddhist private armies Anyway, the Eco Iki, their grassroots communities of believers, their monks, and they're armed to defend their little temple towns, and they're rejecting any submission to any dynamo, any Damil. So by the late 1500s, there's this sort of network across Japan, and Nobunaga sees this as a threat, because he sees it's an ability to spark up, writing it's against him, so he goes, fuck it, I'm going to go, I'm going to go on a big one against him. I'm going to smash the Buddhists, which is actually, I feel quite a strong affinity with, walking through. something under one thing. Should you go fucking smash?

You know he hasn't been fucking smashed for a while? Fucking Buddhist. I haven't had to fucking lick for a while. This has a crack at the fucking Buddhist. Yeah. All this focus on like Christianity versus Islam. Fucking these guys get along with it. You know, he's been awfully quiet, the Buddhists.

Those cross-legged floor dogs. Let's fucking slap the bald head of those Buddhists. Yeah, I want to... Wouldn't like to nuggie a Buddhist. I want to put some American cheese on a Buddhist head. That's what I want to do. I like how they've made laziness, like profound. Do nothing.

Yeah. Yeah, all right, mate. No, doing nothing's pre-attractive. What are you Greek? Rubbing his belly. Fat cunt. Again, I've said this. Is that a hate crime?

It's going up to the Buddha's going, oh, your God's a fat cunt. But they're two different ones, because Buddha is the skinny fucking, this guy. Look his earloves. Fat Buddha is a folk Chinese retelling of the Buddha, I believe. Oh, really?

Can't rub a thin guy's belly for luck. The fat Buddha is a depiction of the Chinese Buddha, a 10th century monk representing contentment. Right. from the 10th century. A fat Chinese monk. A fat, just some fat bloke who love Buddha. Then the original Buddha is the guy,

fucking Saddata, Gutama. Yeah, the original Buddha looks quite kind of androgynous. He's the guy who came up with it all. And he's got this lazy, sleepy eyes. He's like, hey, hey, hey, hey. He's going to come to bed eyes. He's also a rich kid, you know, a lot of time on his hands. Really?

So that's why he came out with that. Right. He's an NEPA baby. Anyway, 1571, there is a massive Buddhist Eco-Iki Fortress on the foot of Mount Hi Sorry, Mount Hii It's called Enriacochi

Isn't hi Doesn't hi mean hello or sorry In Japan Because I know Jackie Chan He's not Japanese I know that But he's not saying hi Every time he

But he's not Hello! Hey! Hey! How are you doing it? Well you mean Jackie Chan's just trying to shake someone's hands Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah He's got ADHD Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! No, there's an amazing making Oh, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,

This is an amazing documentary about how he makes, how he made Rush Hour, and you see that when he's making all those noises, that's actually him calling out choreography moves to everyone else. But they just leave it in. Ha! He means I'm about to throw a punch. So he turns around and blocks. It's really fascinating.

Anyway. Okay. But they just leave it in because it sounds cool. Well, it does sound cool. Yeah. And it's also from a Western perspective. That's just how I think people would talk. Exactly.

Hey, aye, hey, hey. Yeah, that all tracks. Exactly, yeah. So, after smashing several Ecoiki fortresses, Nobunaga, target. Mount Haidt, and it's the politically the most influential complex of Buddhist separatism.

Overlooking Kyoto, the capital. So he amasses his huge army, massive army, far too big. He basically, it's a war crime what he does. He burns it down, he kills thousands of monks, women, children. In the Netflix series about this, they show

sequence where they just line up loads of women and they just go along, chopping off heads. Sort of raping Nan King sort of stuff. Yeah, I mean, this is the long road to the rope of Nanking. Yeah, for the high-five of Nanking. As it's taught in Japanese schools. As Japan would call it the high-five of Nanking,

it is contested history. Not all history is decided. Anyway, they're not, they don't high-five women here. They cut their heads off. And this massacre shocks Japan, which again is a country that is not easily shocked. And some of Nubunaga's closest generals

are disgusted by this. There is, and I want to put a pin in this, for our narrative. There's a general called Akechi Mitsuhidi and he is a devout Buddhist and he sees the massacre of the Buddhist women and thinks

I don't know about this. This guy's a bit fucking mental, you know. This emo guy is a bit fucking, he's a nihilist. He really hates his mom. It is eliminated powerful opposition and it sends a message to all the sects and the daimio that Nogne does not, he's not playing cricket. Yeah, he really isn't.

He's playing someone else. He's not fucking about. He's not fucking about. But it does neutralize the Buddhist warrior threat and that sort of becomes, I don't think a Buddhist has a military force rise again in Japanese history after this. Or maybe ever.

Maybe, yeah. They're slapped. Maybe that's no one. Yeah. Now they're just bald and silent. Yeah. He cuts all their hairs off. He gives him a haircut. Now they're just bald. Yeah. It's bald cunts. So the greatest foe of the Oda clan during this time after the Ikoiki is

the Takeda Shingen. Who is a daimio of a famous group of military commanders dubbed the 24 generals. So is that like the so solid crew? I guess so. There's 24 of them. so he he slaps around the Buddhists

but while this is happening one of the other three unifiers Tokugawa Ieyasu he's starting to get invaded by the Schengen and his lands sort of are in between Nubunegas and Shingans

so I need some help here to see off these Shingen lot so Iayasu is outnumbered 35,000 to 8,000 and EASU is outnumbered EAS is a general who's protecting the eastern part of Nobanaga's empire, right? Yeah. And he, in our last episode, he had been on the side of Yoshimoto and then had flipped.

Yeah. Because he'd seen how brutal. Yeah. And so despite being outnumbered three to one, he marches to meet Schengen head on. Right. Because it's about to projecting strength. Yeah. He then gets completely annihilases, which I guess does not project strength.

Yeah. But that's what this is about. It's about, it's all in the mind, isn't it? Yeah. Japanese culture. Honor. It's honor. What have you got here, Charlie?

These are your medieval Japanese peasant name equivalents, apparently. Taro Tanaka. That's you. Oh, great. And the ratio is Saburo Matsushita. So, yeah, yours is first son, peasant name in the rice field. Your first son in the rice field. And then I'm third son.

Up a pine tree. Rastic but lofty, like gould. Right. Okay. There you go. So I'm Saburu Matu. Sushita Konichiua

Tarotanaka versus history I Yasu I just goes and a massive gets fucked but he survives but he survived

he's dragged from the battlefield yeah his wife is scheming against Odun Obinaga so he's

he she writes a letter to whoever the fuck I can't remember the other guys saying hey

she's voice noting I'm gonna these guys are snakes I just want to walk from the tubes I just thought I put this in a voice snake

I'm going to, yeah, she says I'm going to hand you Nobunaga and Ieasu if you, I don't know what, I don't know what. She just made three lands and a marriage to a name. Okay, there you go. She just wanted to leave husband. Anyway, so she sees... By the way, divorce is completely fine. Oh, yeah, you just write three sentences. Oh, cool, whatever.

She's ugly. Fair enough. Yeah, no. As you were. As you were. So what Iyasu does is he goes, I'm going to switch sides unless you, actually send some troops to help me and so Nobunaga goes right

Yeah Fair enough He's going to send loads of boys And then this is it The Battle of Nagashino The combined Tokugawa and Nobunaga force So is that EASU and Nobanaga

Work together To this is in military terms This is an exciting battle They engineer a kill zone Okay They build all these like Parapits or ramparts Right

And they have the Arquebus the guns and they're basically doing volley fire like the Brits did in Zulu but it takes so long to reload the muskets

that there's a massive gap so what they do is they fill that gap with archers to cover the reload traps so there's constantly bullets or arrows going at them

and then they send him pikemen behind to unhors riders for finishing blows yeah so they basically they make this kill zone they massacre

so the kill zones so they just funnel people into a choke point like in Cooler Duty in any map, there'll always be like a bit where there's most death. It's a little choke point in the design. Do you think in battles like this,

is anyone, because obviously this is aging, like if you got stabbed, it would have really hurt, right? Is anyone actually in pain in these places? I'll start again. I'll start again. Are you just on a mad adrenaline or are you just like, is anyone in pain? Are they actually in pain or are they just like this is mad?

In a medieval battle, no, I think they're fine. I think it's like a, it's like a sauna. But is there any like a sparse? day. Is it just adrenaline or are you like, fuck me. I've just been like, have my fingers off. Like, is it, is it hurting? I don't know how to answer that because...

I just think it would really hurt to be in a battle like this. Yeah, I agree. I agree with you, Charlie. Yeah, I don't think that's a hot take. Well, we haven't addressed it. It's good to have a talking, you know, you're right, you cut to a historian. Just trying to go, and bear in mind, this probably would really hurt. The kill zone, it was painful in there.

Did it, did it hurt being in the kill zone? Yeah, I probably did, actually. But we can't hurt. I'd love to see Charlie. Charlie just pop up in a history documentary. Down Snow talking about the kills zone. Just to make it clear, when the swords went through their heads and necks,

probably really, really hurt. But we can't know. We can't know. We can't know what it was like. Anyway. So we're in the 70s. It's the 70s. OPEC crisis.

Bowies in the charts. Yeah. So the battle at Mika Takara. Mika Takara. At dawn, the Takeda formations advanced along the ridge lines and charge. They meet this layered musket and arrow fire and then they hit the barricades

and successive waves are stalled and it's Charlie, just so you know, it says shredded in the kill zones. Yeah, I must have. But they're loving it. They're loving it. It's like a massage chair. Oh. Well, again, like an airport massage chair.

In Japan, an airport massage chair is just kidding it's killing yourself. So the spearmen counterattack on the flanks and Katsiori, he refuses to quit and he just sends wave after wave into the kill zone. and morale collapses, the retreat turns to a row in it, and finally they forced Katsuri to flee north.

They think, at the end of it all, 10,000 to Kada are dead. Massive. And they died doing what they loved. And so Katsuri psychologically shattered and never really again tries to doubt Nubunaga's... So basically he's defended Oda's new empire that's burgeoning, the eastern front that's kind of sorted now.

But the key is that Ieasu and Nubunaga you know, their relationship is as strong as a samurai sword. They're best mates. Because I Asu was threatened to go and then what he does, the fallout from this is that, so Nobunaga had spies in Iyasu's house

and one of the spies finds the letters that his snake wife had written and takes it to Nobunaga. Then Nobunaga says, right, well, you've got her, someone goes and beheads her straight away. Lady Sukiamer, she's called. and then Iasu

who's sort of worried about this gets his son and says right you're under a house arrest but Nobunaga says no that's not good enough he's going to have to commit Spooku and then he does because listen you don't have a choice

if someone says kill yourself you go well okay I've got my boss I went to Japan and I went to one of the houses from this period right and it is really interesting that like obviously the walls are paper thin

so you'd think it'd be good for spying how they get round the spying is they make the floorboards so creaky so basically there's like there's loads of rings within the house and you keep going like corridors within corridors

and then you'd sleep in the centre bit and it's just they've just made every I think there's something quite cute about that is that like if you're into a spy you can't like sneak because you could just it's basically you can hear enemies and you're like I don't want to wait the baby

I don't know, I didn't ask. Because also, what's the point of having like a paper door by the toilet? I imagine that they're in a different wing. It'd be nice if you could customize the sound. Of your own shit. Of your farting. Or you have your own unique sort of.

Or like on a sat nav. Yeah. Rather than that, it'd be nice. What would your sound be if you could... What would your sound be? Oki-doke. Or... Wait, wait, so every time you go for shit, it goes,

okay, don't. Yeah. In different ways, it's hard to control. It's like a fart in the sense you don't know what's coming out. So it could be like, oh, you don't! But it is always dokey doke. Yeah.

Right. Okay. I think we should get back to the... Yeah. Sure. We'll chat after. We'll chat about your fart invention. Put a pin in that.

We need to finish that conversation. So, anyway, the point is that Nopinak makes... He has to his son kill himself. Yeah. And this does affect their relationship somewhat, I think. But not as much as... Not as much as it would happen nowadays. If you turn up late for a chord

and I force you to kill your son To kill himself It would be maybe Might be a bit pass ag Yeah But that's all you'd be allowed to be Because if you brought it up That would be very rude

And you don't kill yourself as well So In 5879 Nobunaga establishes a new headquarters At Zuchi Castle Seven Story Castle And this is a real insight Into Nobunaga's character

Every floor is decorated With increasingly powerful animals and gods. So like you start with the fucking frog and then you end up like a bear or something. But the seventh floor, which is where Nobunaga's room is, just has a mirror.

Beast. Just so he can look in his mirror. So he's the biggest, he's the best god. That's winner mentality. That's hustle grinds at shit. That is, that's Rogan's fist. Yeah, exactly. And the only people who had mirrors

were supposedly gods. Right. Because it's such a humble culture. Yes. Oh, I see. So it's very cocky to have a mirror. Very cocky to have a mirror. a mirror. And so this

means people start branding him as Demon King of the Six Heavens. Nice. Right. We need to get on to ninjas. Come on. Come on. Our in-cell audience want to know about the original ninjas. Yeah. So ninjas are Japanese. I thought they were Chinese. Again, potato potato. Right. Or rice,

rice, whatever that saying is. Now, ninjas, now we should place this 1579. This is before the ninja air friars, as I've said, before the ninja air fryers come out. So at this point, ninjas are sneaks. Yeah. They're not airfriars. Okay. And it is after 1066. Yep. It's after. So William McConger.

Post, yeah, Battle of Hasteings. Hasteings has happened. Being, being able to cook a salmon in nine minutes. Pre air friar. Again, this is the pre-Rennie age, the pre-airnary age, 1579. Are you using your air-friar a lot? I do use my air-friar a lot. It is amazing. I have a ninja grill. Okay. which is so I wanted an air friar my wife said they were ugly and I said well you're in the house what's your excuse?

Anyway that's not fair anyway what's your excuse is so funny no she said they were ugly and they would take up space on the counter

I was like well as a kitchen that's what the fucking counter is for I'm a big fight at the moment about counter space I'm a big believer in lack of counter space I like machines I think that's why you have counters to put a machine on it

So, Adam Flodd, he didn't even have a microwave or a toaster. Yeah. So he wanted counter space that badly. Crazy. It's crazy. You're crazy. You're a toaster? Yeah, so he's doing it.

You're grilling it in an oven. It's just a frying pan. A frying pan toast. Why do you that much counter space? I've got barely any counter space because I've got a machine to do every job. I think block it up. Block it up. I don't want counter space.

No. Anyway. We're anti-counter space as a podcast. Yeah. Anyway, she did said we couldn't have one. But then Ninja brought out this thing called the Ninja Grill, which is like a barbecue. you calm air fryer

I know what you're going to say it's not a calm air fryer you knew what I was going to say I know as soon as I said it that's one of your favourite things yeah Charlie shaking his head come on get your mind out of the gutter sorry's disgusted

it's disgusted come air fry that sounds absolutely disgusting anyway so it's got the air fry technology and bear in mind I'm not being sponsored but I would happily sell this to anyone it's also got a heating element underneath a really

it's like ceramic hot plate and it's got a little spot to put wood chips in so you can basically get a barbecue effect and a very, very hot, high grill heat and it's also an air fry. Is it, so it's ninja? Ninja grill. But it lives outside, this is the key.

No, it's great. Cooking outside is great. But this is my point. Wife wouldn't let me have it on the counter. It has to be outside. It's outside. But then we have people around, we have boring people around.

I have to go outside to cook. Right. Perfect. More excuses to do. Why is the door shut? Shut the door. You're just moving everything outside. Toilet outside.

Toilet outside. Sofer outside. I eat dinner on my own outside. Air-frying semen is a serious health hazard and a very bad idea. Thank you, Charlie. We must remember our list is a very thick. Yeah, it's a public health announcement. No, the Ninja Grill is brilliant.

Okay, so actual ninjas. Sorry, but we're not talking about the Ninja Grill. We're talking about the age of the ninjas. So where did the term ninja come from? How long have ninja's been around? I'd like to know that. Charlie leaning back. He literally just shrugged.

He actually just went, I don't know. Just got no idea. Hands behind his head. Yeah. So, well, the ninjas, it's actually, so we think of Samarise and ninjas as being distinct. Ninjas is a vibe, right? Yes.

It's called the Shinogu. Oh, no, the Shinobi. Peaked during this period, the ninja. So where did it originally? Well, what I'm about to say. All right, okay. So there's the, so Nobunaga is the most powerful warlord in 1579. But there's this one thing.

thawling his side, Eager province. Okay. So this is a small self-governing region that's like famed for guerrilla warfare. Right. Because he's got all these mountains. And this is where the original... They're like the Taliban. They are the original Taliban. The ninjas are Taliban.

Yeah, okay. So actually because both with the samurai and the ninjas, they've been so exoticized in like children's cartoons. Yes. The idea of the ninja, right, is you've got throwing stars. You're all in black. Yeah, yeah, you're all in black. and then you're amazing at kung fu whereas the samurai's great swordsman right

so they're actually just Taliban fucking yeah yeah yeah yeah that's what ninjas are anyway so the eager bands are constantly raiding Nobunaga's territory so Nobunaga deems their destruction necessary

for security it's a very similar Hamas as real situation right anyway he doesn't actually say he doesn't order an invasion okay I mean they did look like the stereotypical thing are ninjas. They look fucking sick.

At what point, because it's weird how they got the similar vibe to like burkers, isn't it? Yeah, I guess it's all like a burker. Is that because the ninjas

are so hot? Right, yeah. I don't think the ninjas are hiding in their face to stop male temptation. It can't hurt. Yeah, definitely not. Right.

Keeps them focused. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, so Nobunaga's son, Nobukatsu Curry. Right, yeah. He goes, fuck it. I'm going to invade on your, on your behalf. Right.

He just launches an invasion. So in 1579, he invades the ego through the three mountain passes. Yeah. But one of the senior generals is killed and the ninjas with their throwing stars and their little trident forks and their smoke bombs and shit. Yeah. Sneaky. They do a job on him. Right.

And it's a humiliating defeat. It's literally, it's the Taliban versus the US. You're getting bogged down in a quagmire. Except it's just a day. Right. But, yeah. It's the Vietnam War in a day. It's a Vietnam War in a day.

Right. so he comes home and obviously Nobunaga fucking hates this right he kicks off big time so he compulates executing his son which is the reasonable thing to do in this day and age but instead he says right I'm just going to go back in

and wipe him off and so he goes in 1581 he unleashes five veteran generals and a five pronged invasion and he just burns everything right yeah just burns them all kills Brexit football women children Sam Aladice

Sean Ditch just fucks him Sean Dices them up. Yeah. And it's basically a genocide. Right. Very similar parallels. Yeah, it is actually. Anyway, ninjas after this point

become more of a kind of private guard. It's more like Samuise are protecting the king. But are you mixing samurai and ninja? No, because ninjas is a vibe. It's not, they're not distinct classes. Because samurai at one point is 7% of the population. So there's loads of samurai. No, but that's a class.

What I'm saying is samurai. can also be ninja tactics because... So you give me a samurai and a ninja? Yeah. The most Japanese man ever. Yeah. Yeah, literally.

A ninja is like... A ninja samurai. A ninja is like the S-A-S-Samurai. A elite samurai. Ninjas are like special forces. So yeah, it is a vibe. Ninja actually means Japanese guerrilla tactics, basically.

It actually means air convention heater. But anyway, go on. Yeah. So that's... basically it just means it's a tactical thing it's not like

it's not your part of your identity it's not like it's not on your tax return I'm a ninja no you wouldn't introduce yourself as a ninja it's not for a ninja thing to do no

it's okay so Nobunaga at this point with the eager pacified he stands at the zenith of his power yeah

he's basically about to unify the entirety of Japan yeah he's just about to bust His genitals are completely pixelated at this point. Anyway, 1582 Nobunaga orders his trusted general Toyotomi Hideyoshi, who is the second of the great unifiers.

He was... He should say that he's the dirty, the dirty peasant who rises through the ranks. And everyone calls him a monkey because he's got like a simian face. But everyone basically racially abuses him, even though he's also Japanese. Which we're a big fan of. Which is a big fan of. I think racism should not stop at the boundaries of race. Yeah, segmenting racism within people

who are the exact same race. I'm a big fan of that. I'm a phrenologist, famously. So we think of proliferation of racists. Yes. So we can have more racism. Exactly. Racism within races.

It feels much safer. Yeah. You know, Charlie is a different type of white to me. It's like viewing northern as a different race and now you've got more room to be racist. Exactly. Yeah. Charlie's head is bigger.

Therefore, it's more cavernous. There's less space in it. He's thicker. I'm a phrenologist. There's an echo. There's echo in Charlie's head. Anyway, Hideyoshi, one of the trusted generals, he's ordered to strike just to the west with the Mori, which is the kind of last great frontier of Nobunification of Japan. Oh, so the last resistance to...

Sort of the last big clan they have to think. Now, Takamatsu Castle is ringed by Hideyoshi, but a 40,000 strong Mori relief column are on their way. Go on. Sorry, is this just like, obviously, these are all Japanese name, but is this like Gordon, Gordon Crescent? and fucking Ian Boulevard. Well, yeah, their names, Charlie. But they got classic. But Ian Boulevard's not classic.

Yeah, Gordon Crescent. What the fuck's that? You meant like John Smith or like Ian William Williams or something? Yeah, you've made up two of the most random names have ever heard. What was the second one? Ian Boulevard. Ian Boulevard and Gordon Crescent. You know, it's like John Doe.

He's a just, he's the regular Ian Boulevard. I mean John Smith. I mean John Smith. John Smith. John Major. John, mate. You're asking, is Hideyoshi Is it just like...

Do you know my names work? Yeah. Yeah. These will sound very far away names, but actually... Yeah, that's because you're not Japanese. Right, but that's what I'm saying. Right. If you're asking, if you're Japanese with these names...

Would they blow you out? Would people be like, fucking hell, those are weird names? Yeah. Everyone, but these guys is called like John, Ian. It's like, what the... Where are all these fucking... It's a completely coincidental that everyone's like,

Mitch you? Hideyoshi I've never heard that name before Yeah no Everyone is called John or Ian Apart from All of the important historical figures It just happened to be called

A Ketchi Mitsuhidi Oh we did Nobunuga what Nobunugabuga hoogga what Mitsubishi, that's the name of my truck What What's his name is it Why isn't Ian Boulevard in charge I'm telling you I'm not voting for him

But he's fucking pretentious, fruity names, man. Sick of it. Yeah. Well, it's an elite, isn't it? It's like Remainers, you know, with their berets and their fancy names. Horatio. It's like kids who call them, yeah, Horatio, Sebastian. Same thing.

You've got John and Sarah who are aspirational, and they call their son, Akechie Mitsahedo. And everyone's like, fucking Ponce. What's a name was that? Anyway, let me set the scene. Right. Because this is important. Yeah, butter me up, Finn.

I'm, well, I'm going to Sesseme oil you up, actually. Okay. Japanese aren't touching butter at this point. They're really not. They're not touching it. They're into the seed oils.

Yeah. Seed oils. And yet, they're in a blue zone. Yeah. Because it turns out it's about mates, not oil. Yeah, it is. It's about eating squash

and having mates. It's eating fish and squash and having mates. Yeah. It's vegan communes. That's the way to live a life. Then you think, is that a life I want to live for a hundred years?

Sapuku. I'd rather eat meat and zapooka myself at 40. Anyway, Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget online casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips. Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting, signing up is fast and simple. And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best slots and top-tier table games.

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See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. responsibly. Td Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs, no matter the stage of business you're in. Visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. Hello, I'm Doreen Linsky. And I'm and Dunn. We're the hosts of origin story, the podcast about the history that shapes our political discourse today. Our eighth season is all about the story of socialism from its earliest experiments

to the present day. From Marx to Mao, Lenin to the Labour Party, Gramsci to Gorbachev, we'll be exploring the people, the events and the ideas behind socialism and communism. So please join us as we journey through an idea that has changed the world. You can listen to us or watch us on video, on Spotify, your regular podcast app, or now on YouTube. so hideyoshi the monkey boy not my words not my words his mate's words his mate's words um hideyoshi who again you know is although he's from a low class he has a very pretentious name right um he is surrounding takamatsu castle with 30 000 troops yeah but 40,000 mori attackers are to the opposite of the nominaga team yeah yeah uh now hideyoshi

asks Nobunaga for help. Nobunaga commands Akechi Mitsuhidi to march west and follow. Now, the pin we put in that was that when Akechi Mitsuhidi is the Buddhist general who was appalled at the massacre of the Iko-eiki at Mount Ha'i! So, Mitsuhidi, who at this point was a kind of Ronin, which we haven't explained. A Ronan is a samurai's a tide. It's a great film. With De Niro.

I haven't seen it. brilliant, Rodin. One of the best car chasers. Basically, a samurai, you're tied to a daimio. You're tied to a lord that you're serving. And if that lord dies or you get let go, you're just a Ronan. You're basically a tramp. You're like a fancy tramp.

Sort of, although you're kind of, you're a, you're a gypsy samurai. Yes, yeah. In that you can just, you're freelance. Yeah. You're not contracted. Yes, it is freelance too hard. But Mitsahidi is elevated by Nobunaga. He should have really killed him, I suppose.

Yeah. In the traditional order of things. but he was sickened by the Mount High massacre and this is also what you were saying he's also constantly humiliated by Nobinaga so he's called a bald rat and he just bullies him the whole time I mean some of the lids that these guys had

were terrible because you'd have like bald there and then you had the man bun at the back and like really yeah it's the opposite of the short back and size isn't it is the top you go into a barb and say can't have a top short top short top long sides and back well that that must come back

at some point, that hairstyle. It's sort of cyclical, isn't it? Yeah. There needs to be a clap back to the shore back and sides. Yeah. It's like the opposite of Charlie. Charlie's got a mohawk currently. It's the opposite of a Mahican.

It's an inverse Mahican, the samurai hair. Yeah, reverse Mahican. So, to be fair, he does look like a bald rat, Mitsahidi. But anyway... It's just basic observation, really. Nobunaga is also had executed Mitsahidi's mum. I mean, I feel that's kind of one of the big things to bring. No, it's Japan.

So it doesn't really... No, to be fair... I like how that sort of like a throwaway At one point she'd sneezed at dinner So she had to go The main thing is that it was called a bald rap Anyway So Mitsahidi turns this army

Not west But towards Kyoto Which is where Nobunaga is In his castle Look Wanking in a mirror on top of the seven stories So we get to 1582 The coup at Honoggi The Honoggi incident

Right So Mitsuhidi catches Nobunaga at Honoggi, which is his temple, with bodyguards and some pages. Yes, he doesn't have, his forces are all out. They're all out fighting the Mori. So Mitsahidi stormed the temple. Nobunaga fights fiercely, but he's trapped

and he withdraws to a back room. Yeah. And the only thing he can possibly do is commit Sapuku. And he's loving it. And he loves it. He's like, oh, general, there's no chances. Do you think...

The day is lost. He's like, yes! Do you think you could do a Sapuku wank in the way that you have a strangle wank? Very interesting question. Because it's like the strangle wank a lot, not only the stimulation in suicide and coming is amazing. It's the force of the exfixation.

Do you think it's works for other forms of suicide? You can't wank and shoot yourself in the head. That doesn't really, that doesn't add to the thrill at all. Well, I guess the problem is, is that it's not suicide by strangle wanking. It's autoerotic asphyxiation that leads that. It's appropriating suicide culture.

You could say that. It's more that you want to cut off some of the airflow to enhance your pleasure. Yeah, I concede to an expert. And then, thank you, I'm married. I will take the floor. I will take the stand. You're cutting off the airflow. But what happens is that because men get so excited,

they forget to release the airflow, and then they end up suffocating. David Carradine. They David Caradine themselves, or they, Michael Hutchins or whatever. Pick your poison. You know about the guy, so the guy, have you seen Kill Bill?

Yes. You know Bill? Yes. long hair and stuff. He was found in a Thai hotel closet. Yeah, mental. Yeah. Anyway, so, but my point is, is that you're saying that if you're autoerotic

supu would be you're masturbating and then just at the point you come, you open up your belly and your gut spill out and maybe that enhances the pleasure. Well, I imagine what it actually is. But then someone shop your head off. It's more misunderstanding autoerotic asphyxiation and thinking it's the suicide bit that's giving you the pleasure. Yeah. So you're just doing different ways to do it.

That was quite funny. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, that's great. Oh, yeah. You're into rope play. Yeah, I'm into gun play and sword play. Anyway, so he goes back, jacks off and kills himself in the back of a room. And Mitsuhidi then moves into Azuchi Castle and kills Nobunaga's heir, Nabutada, which creates...

He's nabotata. Yes, Nabutardo saw his Japanese for Nuburitad and he creates this power vacuum that he intends to fill However, this is when the story really starts to kick on Hideyoshi who's out west Yeah Right, fighting the Mori And he has a lot of loyalty to Nomenaga

Because he, Nominaga lifted him through the ranks He's just a little monkey boy And loyalty is more important than life You say that, this guy's been turned, he turned on Nobanaga But that's because Nobinaga had killed his mum Yeah And to be fair chopped off all the heads of Buddhas of women.

Yeah, anyway. But it's Game of Thrones, isn't it? It's Wars of the Rises. So, even though he's still besieging the Mori, Hideyoshi receives the news that Novenaga's dead. And he races east to avenge his lord before the other Dynamo rally. Yeah. So Mitsuhidi chooses this choke point of Yamazaki.

Yeah. Which is that, is that the name of a bike? Yamaha. Yamaha. That's a piano. No, they do the same. Do they do bikes and bikes? It's a really strange thing.

This is a very Japanese company. Yamaha, they're like, I think they do, I think they do three things. There's something else they do. It's like, just basically, whatever we do, we need to do them the best. Yeah. And it was just pianos and motorcycles. Yeah. Anyway, it's sort of like a thermopoly situation, choke point, narrow corridor.

But not like that, choke point. Not that trying to choke point. No, not the... Not a David Caron choke point. No. Anyway, Hideyoshi seizes the heights. Mitsahidi is defeated. You're right.

I don't know, I don't care how. Hidey or she kills him, kills them all. And so Mitsahidi is nicknamed the 13-day Shogun, because he's Shogun for only 13 days. And Shogans are the people who... We haven't explained with that is two hours into the series, not Shogans are sort of the military leaders of the country. They're sort of the people who actually runs shit.

And the emperor is a broke, like, guy who everyone respects, because he's, like, ritualistically the most important. He's descended from the sun, maybe. Yeah, he's dissent, but he, this is, he is no power. and is sort of like irrelevant. All these guys are fighting and he's just like doing tea ceremonies but there's a respect for him.

He's on the money. Yeah, yeah. That's it. So Hideyoshi having been born a commoner without a surname even, he has risen from the bottom of the bottom to become essentially the ruling Shogun. Yeah.

So two of Odu's sons have survived. Robukatsu and Nobuttaka Katzukhry made it through Katzukharis made it through Nobutad's dead obviously He walked into the sea By mistake

So Hideyoshi Needs to try and Defeat these sons Oh right okay In order to like cement his rule There's a real power vacuum Shogun And this is why it's kind of

There's always a Wars of the Roses type Like Princes in the Tower There's always an aspect of that But it's like every 10 years There's some new princes in the Tower So Nabutaka Oda's son he allies with a veteran general

called Katsui Katsui smashes some of his forts, the defenders flee and it's all looking a bit precarious for Hideyoshi but he sets the stage for a decisive showdown at Shizugatake

Katsui is defeated He didn't Shizu Defendi well enough Really? Shihu Ataki Shihu Defendi? Yes. Yes, sorry.

It's all right. I apologize. No, no, no. please pass a sword anyway whatever Shizu Kiyoshi sort of defeats him

and it makes him the effective master of Nubunaga's domains Yeah What is it Charlie Do you reckon when people said hello to Nobinaga They said Naguan It'd be Noguan I think they did Order Nobanaguan

Noban order Nobanaguan order I don't think they did Charlie Because they didn't know Patua And again we must say This is Japan So everyone's called

Ian and Gordon. They're not called Ian and Gordon. No, they're not. They're not. That's, that's because you're... That's an unusual name. You grew up in... Noble cats.

You don't hear that. Often, do you? Yeah. No, it's not surrounded by is with the working class people from Bolton. Wagga what? Waka mama? What happened to Greg's?

This country's going down the toilet. Hideosha. Hideosci's in charge. Who lectured? Who lectured and Hideyoshi? What kind of name's that? this is the country of Gordon Brown David Cameron

Tametaya Hideyoshi Christ Anyway Powerful rivals still loom Because it's again Hideyoshi is The whole area Like no one can really gain control

No Of all these dying diomios But the main one is Yeah We touched on the last episode So there's sort of There's like little clashes Right

Who was one of Nobunaga's key generals Yeah So he's the other So the Nubu Naga's dead. There's two unifiers left. Iyasu and Hideyoshi. And they, they choose to accommodate with each other. Yeah. With a high stakes hostage exchange. Right. This is very funny. I like this idea. Iiyasu has to give his second son, bear in mind his first son's been ordered to commit suicide. Yeah. Well, yeah. So he's dead. Obviously. So Ie Asi has to give his second son.

Your first son is your suicide son. You've got to get one out the way with a suicide and then you can really. Yeah. And it's a tragedy when families have Charlie as their fifth son. Because really Charlie Charlie be a very good suicide son but he's the fifth son so he's like

oh fuck okay ideally the thickest is the firstborn because you just give them for suicide and then you have four sons

that can actually do anything anyway Iiyasu's second son is given to Hideyoshi and Hideyoshi's mom goes to Ieasu right so then the idea is

that if anything happens to one of them the other one's always got collateral right right right okay which is just a very funny idea

that I would like just I take I take your mom you take my child and then we go okay that's the podcast agreement there's something quite nice that there is yeah it's a real like it's mutually a short destruction what you can really do

is if you got a fucking seeing is they're always ordering each other to commit suicide family members seem to be irrelevant I'll just fucking bin off the one I don't give a fuck about yeah and then they're like well I'm going to kill your son is like I wanted to kill himself anyway so you can go fuck yourself and it's like I've got your mom that's my mother-in-law

you fucking idiot check mate win win You'd be doing me a favour, mate. So what Toma Hideyoshi does, right, is having cemented this alliance with the ASU because he's a commoner, because he's a lowly gypsy monkey boy, again, not my words.

He invents a lineage that ties him to the right ruling class that would enable him to be prime minister. Classic. Yeah. Because normally it's like only a certain type of prime minister. But they wouldn't call it prime minister. Well, they would. Everyone's called Ian and John. Yeah, because the Prime Minister, that's...

Basically Prime Minister. By the end of... By the mid-1580s, Hideyoshi is the effective ruler of Japan, and has essentially kind of unified it. Imperial Region, not Prime Minister, right? But his reign will be short-lived. Right. Because the power play with him and Ieasu is still to play out.

And we're going to leave this episode here. I'm going to carry on the story next episode. episode next week next week where we'll also deal with uh idu japan ido japan we'll talk about more of the culture more of the culture the sumo the rise of iddo that becomes Tokyo because this is obviously the Kyoto period but the beginning of the beginning of bucaki yeah it all starts next week yeah now uh that episode will come out on monday uh we've got some patron episodes we're not quite sure what is that in the beyond but they're going to be all japanesey in that there'll be japanese patron episodes today if you'd like a bonus episode every friday we do a bonus up on

Patreon where for three pounds a month, which is just a smattering of yen. A steel. I don't know what the exchange rate is. A couple shekels. You too can get a blue badge, park where you want. You get a free laptop. Yeah, for three pounds, you actually get a lot. You get a lot. You get a lot of free autism diagnosis on the NHS. You'll be diagnosed on the NHS. So for six, yeah, no, 600 yen, 600 yen, which I know is your preferred currency. You have swords, your 3D print choosing stars. The post do also come in Elvish. That's all. so we've just started doing that because of... And we're much like the Catholic Church

in the 18th century in that women are not allowed. Yep. So you'll feel safe there. Yeah, it's like a yorky bar. Yeah, it's like a yorky bar. There are female patrons, and they're terrifying. They terrify me.

They're real terrors. They are the real terrors. Anyway, thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next week for more life in feudal Japan. Are you tired of starting your day with pointless political arguments, superficial summaries and lukewarm hot takes on the radio? Then switch to the bunker, where we look at the news without the nonsense. Every weekday morning, the bunker brings you a brand new, in-depth look at.

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