Fin vs History - A Non-Offending Homosexual | Gordon of Khartoum (Part 1)

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

This episode is brought to you by Frive. Go to Frive.co.uk/fvh to get 45% off your first box. Introducing General Gordon: where there is war, there is a closeted gay man. General Gordon (Part One) The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.  For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon ⁠https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor Chapters: 00:00: The British Anthony Bourdain 04:55: Put your twat away 07:40: The diarrhea years 11:17: Imperial pomp 14:13: Greek Harvey Price 16:51: Walkies! 20:35: Konnichibosh 24:47: Ching & Chong dynasty 29:05: Physical anglophobia 33:47: Spanking Chinese Botties 36:19: Spank the gentle parent 39:30: All the wangs 43:35: Two chebs & a cheeb Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. You join us once again for Finn versus history. I'm with Horatio Gould. Hello, sir. And we are talking about Gordon of Khartoum today. Chinese Gordon. Chinese Gordon. Gordon.

General Gordon. It goes by many names. This fires me the fuck up. Yeah. I'm into this. Yeah. This, a very bittersweet moment in British history, I feel. Go on.

The tail end of empire when... This is pomp, right? Well, this is my... Tail end is sort of... No, but it's in... What I mean is... What I mean is that it's the, it's, you have men with, the rot is starting to set in. The rot of colon, of anti-colonial forces set in.

And these uppity natives have started beating us. The spoil sports. The spoil sports. Yeah. Gordon, the myth of Gordon at Cartoon kind of, I think it's the idealism. You have men with such strong, uh, certainty, moral certainty. Yeah. And it's starting to be fragmented by the uppity natives.

Yeah. that's why I guess there's a melancholia to it. It's the British underdog oppressor. I mean, it's why every great British story will often be when we're the oppressor, but we'll find the one moment where we're underdogs. We're a siege. Yeah, the oppressor is besieged.

It's Rauch-Strave, his General Gordon. Even like Agincourt, everyone we choose will always be us against. Dunkirk, us running away. Yeah, exactly. But before Khartoum, I mean, Gordon has one of the most extraordinary lives. He's like a Victorian imperial hero. Yeah, he's like a character.

from a book. Yeah, well, have you read the Flashman books? Because they're kind of based on Gordon. It's very funny. What are the Flashman books? It's a series of books that are kind of a satire on like Victorian hero worship, where this character, Harry Flashman, is in a different part. When was it written?

In the 50s or 60, I think. But, yeah, so it's sort of like a absurd Victorian hero. It's like a hopeless bond where he's painted as a hero back home, but in every battle he loses and then much, braver people who accidentally get killed he accidentally escapes and he gets all the crinian they're all they read them as a kid

they should make a series of that they should I should make it because I read them as a kid George McDonoughraiser they're brilliant books and they go and I think Gordon's in the one in China but yeah Gordon is based on this is

it's I mean his life is extraordinary I mean he basically goes everywhere yeah he's like who do you say he's like fucking he's Anthony Bourdain

sort of yes he's the British Empire's Anthony Boreday. He was born January 1833 in Wollich. That's where my family's from. So we're probably knocking about at similar times, actually. He was from a military family. And obviously he will die at Khartoum, you know,

assailed by sort of proto-jihadis. So this is the long road to Lee Rigby, I guess. Yeah, okay, I was wondering where you're going to go there. People from Woolwich fighting Islamic extremism. Yeah. I guess it's never been framed in that one. way. It hasn't, but that's part of our, part of our podcast. Is that way, if you're doing a massive biography of Lee Rugby? Of Gordon, would it be called The Long Road to Lee Rugby? I think so.

Yeah. I think so. I mean, I'd have a, I'd have a flick through in the bookshop, but I don't think I'd buy it. Really? I'd have to see, but. I think it's, it's vital context for Lee Rigby's murder, I would say, is Gordon a cartoon. Right. Anyway, so Gordon is a, he's from a, his family has, like, been in the British army for years, decades, generations is the word. He was the ninth of 11 children. So he's sort of born in the middle of Pax, Britannia? Britannica. Right, so it's post-Napolianic wars before First World War where there's sort of like,

this is the kind of height where there's no real superpower challenging Britain. That's when he's born, yes. Yeah, I guess so. But he's obviously, he's a sort of military kid. He goes around the empire as postings. And then he comes back to Woolwich. and he sort of joins them as like an officer cadet. He's a fucking cheeky chappy.

Sure. From a young age. He would ding-dong ditch the servants of Woolwich. What is ding-dong ditch? I don't know, Charlie, can we Google what ding-dong ditch is? You ring a doorbell and then you run away as quickly as possible. Okay. So he's sort of antisocial behaviour, really.

Sure. You have been ditched? No, I don't think I ever was ditched. You have been ditched. I bought like 12 people around the donuts, like from Krispy Kreme, and then I came out and no one was... Got ditched? I mean, it's brutal.

Did you eat all the donuts yourself? Yeah, that's what I would have done. O'y lads, let's ditch him. And then they kind of bullied me on MSN afterwards. Afterwards. Yeah, they said I wasn't me myself because it was the first time that we'd hung out with girls. I mean, apparently I was really shy.

He would prank the Woolwich cadets that were nicknamed the pussies. Right. Because this is relevant to me because we're currently trying to move my daughter away from calling her vagina a front bum, which we find gross. But she's adamant. One of her friends hilariously called. it a Jaina, but says it like Trump says China. China. China!

Mommy, my china hurts. China. I get a Jaina. It's very funny. Very, very funny. Went to a Piz party. Went to a kids party with this weekend and she was just in the back of it. Not a piss party. It was a soft play party. Not a piss party. I do not go to piss parties with

four-year-olds, but there was a four-year-old in the back of my car shouting, look away, Jaina! Very, very funny. I got the biggest Jainer. Biggest Jainer. Biggest Jainer. My sky is going to the biggest Jaina this school. Anyway, when does pussy become a vulgar slagher? It first appeared in the 1880s. Well, that's when Gordon dies.

We can trace... It's the end of an era. It is the end of an empire. The end of empire starts when Gordon dies a cartoon. He's abandoned by Gladstone, and people start calling Jainas. People read in the newspaper about the siege of cartoon, Gordon's death, and they're like, ah, that's just a fucking pussy, isn't it? A fucking dirty pussy.

What do Victorians call vagina? Let's see the most repressed people in all of history. Box. Box is a Victorian. Nothing. They call it nothing. Interesting. A clever slang term,

playing on Shakespeare as much to do about nothing, implying the thing itself. Get nothing out. What did you do last night? Nothing. Fanny. Fanny.

Lady bits, disgusting. Gras up. Right. Burning shame. There we go. That's more. That's what I call periods. And I would like to bring that back.

Yeah. So Fanny is a Victorian word. That makes sense. We're trying to progress. from Lady bits to front bum to Fanny. Is Fanny the one that you would be most comfortable? My wife's awful Fanny. I still find that a bit,

I find that bit funny. I mean, none of them are good. Because Willie is so childlike and obviously, that's what a boy calls his dick. Yeah. It's Willie. It's silly. It's silly and it's harmless

and it's not sexual at all. Yeah. That's what you're looking for. But the female ones, they don't have an equivalent. What about twat? Put your twat away, please. You can't go to school

with your twat out. Put your twat away. it's too harsh. You can't get your rat out. No, no four-year-old has a rat, okay? That's not... They've got a mouse, I guess.

Mouse? A mouse? Charlie. Charlie. Charlie. Charlie. Okay? Charlie.

No, but my point is that, yeah, I don't know, Jaina. Jainer. Jainese Gordon. We're talking about Jainees Gordon. Where on earth were we? I don't know. Oh, the pusses, that's right.

So, school, basically, what I wanted to get to is that when he was at school at an officer cadet, age 15, he's highly strung, and we'll find out later in the story why he's so highly strung and repressed. But he once headbuttered a senior corporal down some stairs and through a glass door. Wow. And he was alleged to have struck cadets with a clothes brush. So he was held back by six months because he was basically having, he's a hot head. Yeah, he was tantrums.

Yeah. Charlie's just Google autism question mark. There is a question mark about. him having autism. I don't think there is a question mark. I think it's pretty full-blown. But I think... Because that went under the radar,

but I think you just have to look at his life. The word autism doesn't really hold water in Victorian society because it wasn't a... Similar to now, how ADHD... We live in an ADHD world. Right. So if you have ADHD, it's like, well, yeah.

Yeah. We all do. That's the era. I feel like the Victorians... So, like, how everyone had dysentery, they'll look back at this period. Exactly. Obviously, there's the 2020s.

You could frame history as like, well, those were the diarrhea years. What were the diarrhea years? I don't know. Until yesterday. Finn Taylor is you looking at the window. The diarrhea years. That's my travelogue through India. The diarrhea years.

The diarrhea diary. Diary of a CEO. Me going on and telling him what I've learned. I went to India and I found myself. Diary O'i... Yeah. No, you'd say the British Raj was the diarrhea he is.

Yeah. East India Company onwards Golden Age. Yeah, it was a golden age. But no, you could, you know, when you now live in an ADHD age. Yeah. And the Victorians, they're putting fucking,

they're putting dresses on chair legs. That's about as autistic as it gets. They're so precise. They're so coded. They're so ordered. I wonder if it was kind of easier to be autistic in the Victorian age because there's so many social rules.

That's what I mean. But if you're autistic, you can learn social rules. Follow the routines. Yeah, exactly. It's when it's all up for grabs. Like nowadays. It's all a fucking free-for-all.

What am I meant to be doing? I mean, one thing I've always thought. Why have I got diarrhea? One thing that I don't think is an autistic thing to say. I think this is a general thing. We need to work out how to say hello to a new woman. Do you know what I mean? It's not clear.

It's not clear. I can't shake their hand if they're wearing makeup and a dress. Do you know how I solved this problem? What? Don't meet any new women. I've met all the women I'm going to meet. Done. They late that gate has closed.

You're Gordon in cartoon I am. Wind the drawbridge up We're just gonna wait for help I'm gonna wait for backup You're fighting down the stairs Go away I don't know how to say hello to you

Hucking feels creepy shaking hands feels weird Yeah it's weird You can't high-five them Fist bum I remember going to house parties Like 10 years ago And meeting someone new

And not like Not immediately getting the cue To hug Then you put your hand down And they go Oh hello sir You go fuck off What I want me to do

Kiss you on the mouth And fucking shake their hand Like they're a scaffolder Yeah Come here love Bring it in love But then if they're, I don't know, if they're like dressed very casually,

then I think you can shake their hand. Yeah, and also, handshakes aren't for women. They don't have the bone structure to sort of carry them off. A hug often's too intimate, like... Far too intimate.

There should be like a... Christ's sake I'm married. Could you ruffle their hair? I could do. I once did that after... Or Eskimo kiss. I once did that after one night stand that nothing had happened

because she got far too drunk and I had to let her back into her house and stuff. So I basically put her to bed. It was all quite a sort of. of sad. And in the morning, I basically just didn't know how to say goodbye. So I just sort of ruffled her hair, like a sort of blind child. I went, all right, bye then.

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So Gordon is a, he's a man of the age. Sure. But he's cheeky, he's angry, he's having tantrums. Cheeky and angry is a wild combo. Yes. To be a cheeky angry man. Cheeky angry guy. Ah!

Yeah, it's going. It's... Uh... Um... That is, to be fair, that is... Changry. I'm quite like that at home sometimes for the kids. When the cheekiness bleeds into just...

Put your twat away. But God's sake, put your rat away. What would be very funny is to call it a front twat. To apply that front twat away. We have guests over. Put that front twat away. Put your front bum away and put your pants back on your back twat. Yeah, back twat.

Back twat, I like that. Back twat's great. I'm not gay. It's a back twat. In 1852, in 1852, General Gordon become a second lieutenant in the Royal Engineers. He becomes, now this is around 21, he basically becomes an intensely religious man. And this kind of defines his character.

I see myself a lot in this next sentence. He particularly dislikes dinner parties preferring physical hardship to socialising. That's me all over. Yeah, he's a real man of the age that sort of like get out there. Stick him up. Yeah, he's cold plunging rather than speaking. He certainly earned his moustache.

Do you know what I mean? No man's earned their moustache more than this. No. I don't like parties. I would rather just sort of go for a run and then eat far too much. Right. he's also he's absolutely

begging to for a fight the entire something we see throughout his career he's always asking someone please let me get out I want to smash whoever we're smashing right now and this is what what I'm talking about when I mean there's a sort of melancholy to him because he he's he's born

in the peak of the empire and yet he kind of comes of age just when it starts when it's when no victory is a foregone conclusion anymore and we start losing stuff Well, do you think he was born a little too late? Like by 10 years, almost, I think. Right.

And this is how you empathise with them then. Yes, because I feel I was born 110 years, do you like? Anyway, Gawdon's initially sent to Corfu, but he's so eager to fight. He lobbies the war office to be sent to Crimea. Because in 1854, it's all kicking off over there. And he wants to let me Adam. Let me atom. Now, the Crimean War, this is part of the great game.

This is when Russia are in their imperial. pomp. Yeah. And it's basically a fight between Britain and France and Russia to sort of protect British interest in India. Yeah, there's a constant territorial disputes just moving around Central Asia into India. And I think they just choose Crimea as the field to sort it all out. Yeah, basically.

Quote, we do not generally speaking like the thoughts of peace. I expect I shall remain abroad for three or four years, which I would sooner spend in war. There is something indescribably exciting. He's desperate for death. He's got a death wish. Well, there's a debate about whether he has a death wish or not. He assumes he will die in war. He wants a glorious death.

Yes, as we'll see. I guess there's hubris to him, I suppose. Anyway. Isn't hubris saying, I will never die? If he's like, I want a glorious death and gets a glorious death, that's not hubris, right? I feel like there is some kind of Greek word for, there's a sort of dramatic irony within his story. Like, he's, I don't know what. wonder if there isn't a dramatic, because normally there's dramatic irony where someone's just too

egotistical and they get taken down for it. But he kind of gets exactly what he wants. Do you know what I mean? He sets out saying, I want to live this life. I want to die in a blaze of glory. He gets that exactly. Yeah. So what's that? That's just... Sorry, just to give Charlie's Jews. He gets sent to Corfu initially, Gordon, and so Charlie just Googled Harvey Price, Corfu. Yeah. And what was the joke you thought of? What to die. Yeah. Very good. Anyway, Gordon gets sent to Crimea, finally, and he arrives at Balaclava. Is that where the Balaclava comes from? It must be, let's just double-chay-out, Charlie.

Because we had this problem with Skon before. The Balaclava originates during the Crimean War. It's named after this battle here, where British troops, lacking proper winter gear, wore hand-knitted face coverings to protect themselves from extreme... So something that's become so appropriated by the IRA, right? British. It's British.

Well, I love that. That's brilliant. I absolutely love that. My culture is not your costume. Yes. I.R. that's ours kneecap

that's a that's hellate that's fucking hilarious imperial crimean war that is an imperial British military dress that you're wearing on stage

saying get the Brits out yeah hilarious he says without laughing with a lot of venom in his voice absolutely that's hilarious

that's delicious I'm going to start an anti-Irish English rap group called shinbone I'm going to try and get on after them at festivals Yeah, I feel that's harder to get off the ground. I think English people doing anti-Irish music now.

I think that's quite hard to find an audience of that. Nick Hapa, I saw a story where the guys, he's in Japan. And it's so funny because he's like, I never thought we'd fucking play Japan. Why on earth are we playing Japan? Couldn't be further away from what we're singing about. or even the language. So he arrives at Balaclaba and he's,

so he's a kind of, is he a fuselier or he's an engineer, he's a military engineer. So he's basically building shit while he's out there. Yeah. So he's sent up to the trenches. He is a junior leader in a night operation on the 14th of February. He's basically meant to build like a sort of connection between two outposts.

And it's Valentine's Day, which is, this is probably how he'd most want to spend is Valentine's Day. It genuinely is. Yes, definitely. There's a large, you know, his sexuality is a constant or lack of,

lack thereof is a constant theme throughout this series and this life. My sense is that he's a non-offending homosexual. Right. Because in this era it is a crime. That was a phrase. So there's not what we're saying it should be, we're just saying, we're taking ourselves back to the spirit of the day. I'm using the words at the time. Yes. You would be a non-offending homosexual. Yeah. He's decided honorably, I am a homosexual but I shall I shall sheath my homosexual sword. Yeah. For the

good society. For queen and country. Yeah. I'm going to holster my back twat for the good society. So he leads his men to some caves and basically while doing so, that he gets caught in like friendly fire because of confusion, which then starts a Russian picket 150 yards away starting, starts to fire at him. But his cool competence impresses people.

So even though this operation is kind of a fuck up, it's just his ability to deal with. Which is where the whole flashman thing's come from. because he's just sort of careering blindly into situations getting it wrong and somehow sort of escaping. But this is where we first get a sense of his kind of,

he's almost transcendental. His death was nothing because he was made peace with God. Right. But he makes peace of God in a very modern Protestant way, right? Yes. Which is it's your own relationship to God.

So it's like he reads the Bible and he's interpreting it in his own way. It's a very individual. individual relationship he has with God. It's not organized. It's not organized. He's getting his own things from it. He's reading between the lines.

Yes, totally. He's drawing strength from God. So the Russians evacuate Sevastopol in 1855. Gordon writes, I saw a splendid sight. The whole of Sevastopol was in flames. Great explosions took place

while the rising sun shining on the place had a most beautiful effect. He gets off on war. Well, I mean, he must be, The come must be bursting out of it. So any of this stuff. It's got to go somewhere. It's got to go somewhere.

What is it, Charlie? Are there any of these sort of guys left? They just fucking love it into like war. Ant Middleton. There's still in the army. They just have nowhere to really go. I guess the SAS occasionally they get a run out. Yeah.

That's what I quite like, you know, with the Trump thing in the Venezuela, I'm like, oh, these the boys are getting a run out. Yeah, it's just nice to get them. Because these guys, you don't want to keep it. It's not their fault that they did it. Because if you're a Dupupupupup Delta Squad member, you're not meant to think about the geopolitics of it. not really meant to be a normal society.

I think it's sort of like it's a prison really. Get these guys away, you know, doing stuff. Yeah, not saying it was right or wrong. It was nice to see. It's like an ex-l bully needs a fucking walk.

You know what I mean? You got to walk that dog. Do you know what I mean? Don't, not, don't. Yeah, because if you have a group of men who have the ability to do that, they need a run out or else it's going to go out and give them a walk.

They've got to be doing something. You're not just in the house. They're going to be tearing the place to shreds. Trump walks in to Delphorse. They'll be flash banging their And they're like, you know, exactly. They need a run out. They come down in the morning.

Yeah. Anyway, Gordon, for his service at Sebastian Paul, he's awarded the French Lijon Donne, which I think it's quite telling that a British man wins the French Victoria Cross for actually not surrendering. So he then after his, you know, his delights in the Crimean War, he's seen action. He doesn't want to go back to England because he gets bored easily this guy. Much like Delta Force, you know, they get bored. He needs to fucking walk. And to be honest, in this time,

the problem with, there's a lot of British guys who are kept in the house, kept in the country because there's no empire to go out to. No. Everyone's rattling around. Well, look at the Falklands.

Finally, they were like, fuck yeah. Thai cave rescue. That was like, British dad's got a run out. But here, if you're born here, you could choose any corner of the world. There's shit to get involved.

Never has a dog been so well walked than a British man during the 19th century. Yeah. So he then, he fucks off around Europe. He goes traveling, goes into railing sort. He goes to Armenia,

which I guess would be in the Ottoman Empire at this point. He goes back to England, he gets appointed to Chatham in the late 1850s, but really, the place where he makes his name, he's known as Gordon of Khartoum after his death, which will deal with that in the next episode. But really, he gets, before that,

he's known to Chinese Gordon, because a large part of that, and that's not just me calling him back. I know, but that does sound like an East End slang sort of nickname. Right, Chinese Gordon. Right, Chinese Gordon. Chinese Gordon. What are we calling that we don't know?

Because he, again, in, so China. At this point is in the, similar to us now. Chinese Gordon sounds like bash. That's like Big John. Konichi Bausch. China during this period of time is similar to how we are now. It's during a century of humiliation. Yeah.

You know, the family. Yeah. So we in the century. I've said this before. We are currently living through a century of humiliation in the family or a thing. Yeah. And we, I think also China are probably going to take their revenge soon.

Oh, 100%. We're going to have... There's quite a long queue of people. Arguably. India also on the rise. Arguably. So Gordon goes out during the second opium war, which... Wait, is this our century of humiliation?

Yeah. This is our century of humiliation. I've said that before. This is British culture and it's a family... So you've gone from General Gordon to the family. Yeah, yeah. It is. What we're watching now is the family who are a TikTok family who post videos like this.

Yeah. Where they're dancing, holding some takeaway bags. And the caption is... when mum says yes to a Chinese. Now, the opium... Look, it's a century of humiliation, we've got to suck it up and bear it. And we will come out of it

the way China does, right? Or will we? We don't know. So during the... The Gordon gets posted to China. It could be a Greek situation where it's another 2,000 years. We just got to sleep. But we're in the second opium war.

Now, the opium wars were basically the English and French forcing China to open up their ports to exchange drugs for silver. Yeah. Now, opium was banned in China. but the Brits basically fought them twice and then made them buy it.

We made a drug epidemic to make a market. Yeah, we introduced fentanyl into China in order to them. So we can sell fentanyl to them. Yeah, exactly. So we wouldn't sell it in our own country. It's a hard, of all, is one of the harder ones to justify the opium war.

No, we can't sell opium to our own people. We've got to drug the Chinese to say that they pay for it. It's one of the more cut and dry. Don't shit where he eats. I sell drugs abroad. My point is, the British end might act in like a, cartel, but because they've got

moustaches very clean, you can kind of get away with a lot. Now what's happening is that in the way that we forced China to buy opium, China have forced us to, into TikTok videos, and brain rot. Opium of the masses. The opio of the masses. Exactly. So we are now kind of, I frame this

century as a sort of a reverse opium war. Well, they're making us all brain dead and past. And it's banned over there. Watching the family. Yeah, exactly. No, they've got their own version. They've got their own version, yeah. I imagine it's more respectable.

Definitely more controlled. You know, is there a famary out there? When mum says yes to an English and they're dancing like this. With bags of chips. You know? We can't know. So Gordon is bored in England and he's begging the war office. I also, the war office.

We don't really have that anymore, do we? But it's amazing that you can go to an office and say, put me somewhere. Please, I want to fight it. Just wherever Guy on, India, Canada. You name it. Brilliant. So he's begging to be, he's just begging for a fight. Yeah.

Wherever the British are seeing action. So he receives a posting to China during the second Opium War. And he arrives in China. Now Britain at this point is mainly protecting Shanghai. Because China was never a colony. No, sorry. But we just had like key ports like Hong Kong, Shanghai. We had international cities.

Yes. Yeah. He gets posted during the second Opium War. And then during the end of that, war, there is the destruction of the old summer palace, which is ordered by Lord Elgin of Marble's fame, I imagine. So obviously not all antiquity is created equal in his head. And Gordon takes part in the burning of the summer palace, but is also regrets it greatly. Oh, damn. Is it still in ruins? Yeah. Well, yeah. Because they made a new summer palace, wasn't it? So this is kind of an, I think,

pretty naughty. Is this maybe the sort of symbol of the century of humiliation for China? Is there sort of, it's their path and being burned. And does it feel like the kind of colonial rot is really starting to set in where it's just starting to get a little, you know, the romance, the Napoleonic Wars is now descending

into kind of like pretty... Selling drugs to the Chinese. Yeah, exactly. It's starting to... And even like, yeah, the Nelsonian period, all of that, there was a bit more of an idea to it all. But that's what I mean is that Gordon

is of that. He has the moral certainty. He's part of the romantic hero. Yeah, and he has that moral certainty of someone who was born a hundred years previously and yet it's starting to get a bit icky

It is getting icky, yeah With the opium wars over Gordon now becomes involved in a conflict that had been going at the same time which is we should do a series on because it's mad

is the Taiping Rebellion. I don't know much about the Taiping Rebellion. The Taiping Repetion is very funny It's one of the most brutal wars in history Yeah Again that's because it's in China

So there's just a numbers to it. It's stat padding in a way Divide by 10 Exactly Another look The Taiping Rebellion was went on for 30 years

maybe is a civil sort of a civil war divide by 10 and then 30 years what's that in China? Yeah exactly in China's yeah there was a guy called Hong Xi Kuan who believed that he was

Jesus's younger brother Much younger I imagine I'm not sure Is it same dad A different mum? Must be Yeah I know the Chinese calendar

is slightly different to the Western one But if you If your view of the Christian god Is like that of Zeus Where he's just always Getting to disguise and fucking everyone.

Yes. Then you could just be stepbrothers with lots of people I guess so. Yeah, I guess so. Now the... 30 million people

might have died during the Typing River event. Yeah, it's brutal. That's a lot. Now, they are... I'm not just saying this as a slur.

They are called the Qing dynasty. Yeah. So I will be referring to them as the chings, but that's not a slur. That's academic. Right?

So these fucking chings... These chings... These chings... Yeah, but you can't say like that. You can't say these fucking chis. I know, I was having a bit of fun with her. It's a bit of fun. But the chings slap back hard against these.

Against the Chong Dynasty. Is there actually a Chong Dynasty? I don't know. Because there's Chong Qing, which you've talked about before, is a very funny name for a city. Is there a Chong dynasty? There's a song dynasty. Song dynasty.

The Taipings are, they're like a millinarian. What does that mean? Yeah, it's a belief in a coming radical transformation of society, utopianism like a sort of biblical millennium final judgment it's kind of that end of the Christ's younger brother

and he's going to lift us from salvation God fucked God went to Thailand and fucked as a sex tourist and he's got a much younger kid

called Jean Hongji Kwan and but also the Qing dynasty had been ruling China for a long time and I think there was a lot of discontent about the Qing's in general

Well, it was just content about the Qings. Yes. There's a lot of just content about the Chings by the Chinese people. So I think the Taiping Rebellion, I don't know how many people were like signing up because it was a Christian or sort of Christian thing

or whether they just hated the... There's a lot of other factors going on. Yeah. So my point is that Gordon quite quickly gets assigned to protect these interests like Shanghai and Hong Kong because there's a sort of... International cities.

Dubai. Yeah. Yeah. You'd have people moving to, now did you have influence. You know, influence is moving there, you know,

being motivational speakers. Oh, so great. The weather's brilliant and there's zero culture and everything's glass and I can't stand outside for them 10 minutes.

There's no tax because of all the slaves. Yeah, isn't it brilliant? You abolish taxes and just use slaves. The West has fallen like there's so many taxes, but it's better over here

with all these slaves. Yeah. Anyway, so the Qing's lacked a standing army. They're sitting down? Yes. or the terracotta. Yeah, of course.

They basically, it became a sort of regional defence. So it was all like a mess of independent armies. And Gordon's one was called, amazingly, the ever victorious army. It's very much of the age. Well, things in China are just, they have good names. They do actually, yeah. I don't know if it's a translation thing. Yeah, like 100 victories forever eternally or something like that.

Yeah, or the Great Leap Forward. Yes. You know, all this stuff is so... Number one best policy ever. Yeah, it's names. so with such grandeur. But the ever victorious army is kind of a hybrid force

of Chinese soldiers staffed by, like officersed by Europeans, been organized by this American adventurer called Frederick Ward in Shanghai. And his successor,

Henry Bush, is it? An adventurer? Do we have adventurers now? Well, that's what I mean. You could be an adventurer. Well, that's Anthony Wardane, isn't it? No, Raymere,

isn't an adventurer because he's fucking, he's in the home counties trying to make a fire upstick. He's a bushman. He's bushcraft. Yeah. Bear grills?

No, but he's, He's like, he just wants to run away. Well, actually, you know what? It says British adventurer on there. But the problem is you can only be an adventurer is if you're making content. Top draw. I don't know if they're, maybe they're adventurers.

Well, they're the close thing to Gordon. Yeah, I guess so. You know, Gordon's going to Shanghai and saying, what's the best rhyme? You have to have, like, YouTube content if you're an adventurer now. Basically. Yeah, it's those guys around abandoned cities.

Yeah. Henry Bergerveen is the successor to the ever-victorious army, the head of the victorious army. he is an unreliable, arrogant, alcoholic. Now, it says in the script, racist. But we don't know. No. And what I have heard is that he didn't make efforts to hide his racism,

which is not the same thing. Go on. Am I telling the truth or I'm not telling a lie? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, okay. Well, you're saying he was too honest. Two is maybe too strong a word. He was honest.

He said it like he saw it. He shot from the hip. Right, right, right. You know, he did not make attempts. But if you're noticeably a racist in this age, what are you saying? Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

When everyone's unbelievably racist, if people are like, fuck me, you're a bit racist. Right God, wind it in a bit. Henry, God's sake. We're all racist. Yeah, we're all like a racist.

We're all a bit of fun. You know, he's probably doing the eyes, I guess. Yeah, I guess. But more so, it must be, I don't even know where you go. Yeah, where you, Everyone's doing the eyes. Yeah.

Well, I think it's like with, unlike other forms of racism, anti-Chinese racism is much more physical in its manifestation in the, you know, eyes, tea. And then I think maybe the next step is like a little walk, like a waddle. Don't, yeah, don't do the walk. Just do it sitting down. Don't get out your chair to be racist. That's where I think. We can sit here, drink gin teas and be racist like gentlemen.

Don't get up and do a big act out. It's unbecoming. It's too much. It's too performative. How would a non-white person do anglophobia physically? It's Tuesday. No, there'd be the nose, wouldn't it? It'd be like the way... There's too... There's too... There's too...

There's too... ...theirdering about the Brits is that we're so obsessed with class that we sort of... You can't really touch... Because it is two nations under God. In that we can deflect any anglophobia as going, well, that's not me. That's those povots. Ethnic slurs for white people.

Which Tea pot? Tea pot. Apparently. That was used by white people in Colona, Rhodesia. So that's the opposite of what we're looking for.

Hillbilly, honky. Yeah, Gammond. Farker. Yeah. Gamin, I guess Gamin pisses the white people off. It does, yeah. So I think Gammond,

they found one that actually rattles the cage a little bit. Karen really rattles the cage. Yeah, Karen does rat out the cage. Yeah. White men don't like Karen. What's great about Karen is it's one that white men can use.

Oh, it's brilliant. Yeah. It's the absolute... Well, you didn't remember is how deeply sexist we all are. Yes. Ha ha! The final redoubt.

The regam, well, don't not call me that. That's ridiculous. Yeah. Don't be stupid. Come on. Come on. We're all having a bit of fun.

Anyway, so now at some point, Li Hong Zhang, who's the governor of Jiangzu province, he requests British help. And so Gordon gets selected and he's nominated by the government. And this man,

Lee, is impressed with Gordon, saying it's a direct blessing from heaven, this coming of British Gordon. He's a glorious fellow, with his many faults, his pride, his temper, and is never-ending demand for money. He is an honest man, but difficult to get on with. Honest man difficult to get on with.

That is autism, right? That is, yeah, too honest. You just say what you, you know, you don't read social cues. We could say of Henry Bourguveen being not hiding his racism. I'm too honest. I'm difficult to get on with. Is it honest if you're doing a walking act out? A Chinese waddle as well as the eyes and the teeth.

What is the one? I'm being honest. I don't know. You can do it. No, I can't do it actually. But I nearly did. It's escalating. isn't it? So you, you know, you start with the teeth and the eyes, which we're not going to do,

and then you get up and do it maybe, how do you escalate from there? How do you build on the racism that you've already found? I know what you'd do for like a Japanese noblewoman with the feet together. Yeah. And you could do that little walk. And maybe with the Japanese, you do a little giggle, ho ho, and you know, you'd bow, you know, there's lots of things you could, I don't need to, you know, if you would like... You could lead to a horse to Waterby, you can't make it come. If you like the master class that Finn's running off. I will be hosting my race. This is a masterclass inside the racist studio. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it racist.

Yeah. Anyway. So Gordon takes over in Zhangzhou on the 25th of March 1863, commanding nearly 4,000 men. Now, maybe we should place this because we haven't placed this quite yet. 1863, after the Crimean War. Before Jack the Ripper. I was going to say before Crimea River. Oh, yeah.

Justin Timberlake. Yeah. commanding about 4,000 men. and Gordon imposes strict discipline from the start so he doesn't like any looting which is kind of custom in Chinese warfare because that's how they get paid just looting

and he bans hard liquor which is odd because I think there's a lot of rumours about him being an alcoholic himself but that might be later and this is where he gets his is really his sort of main idiosyncrasy is that he's known for leading his troops

into battle armed only with a wicker cane and the Chinese think this is like a magic wand. Right. But it is basically just like a sort of fuck off. Yeah, yeah. Get back.

It's a schoolmaster with the cane. Now, the Tai Ping's... He's spanking their bodies. He's spanking Chinese bodies. He's spanking Chinese back twats. Anyway. Now, the Taiping's notoriously cruel. They take small boys,

having murdered their parents, and they then raise them as child soldiers. At least they're taking responsibility than they're raising them. Yes, no. I mean, you could make many... You know, fatherhood is tough. It is.

You'd know. Many cultures, the father just sort of, has license to sort of run away. Not in, not in... No, they've been raised an army of child soldiers. Get him a job. Gordon has a big... Is this where his fondness

for sort of street urchins begins? We can't know. But he, quote, I saved one small creature who had fallen into the ditch and trying to escape for which he rewarded me by destroying my coat with his muddy paws.

Sounds like he loves it though. He loves it. He loves it. Look, I've got, I've got poor marks all over me. My coat's all dirty. So Gordon decides that the rebels in Quinzan must be cut off from Su Chow. So he takes a steamboat. I mean, I love the steamboats, paddle steamers.

Steamboats fire me up for short. I just love this era. Anyway, he takes Quinzan easily, and he says, the rebels certainly never got such a licking as before. Licking's great as well. Licking's great. We'll lick them tomorrow. However, after the capture of Quinzan, Gordon's troops mutiny,

over a lack of loot and he then, I think he shoots someone and immediately discipline to discipline them. Yeah, so he's got very strong moral principles even if they're pragmatically, it doesn't always work. So again, it kind of feeds into the potential autism for the man. He's got a routine and a structure.

He does. And they're like, no, we want to do this, but I thought it were doing this and I cannot deviate from my daily routine. Yes. What's your most effective discipline method? Do you do like the countdown method with your kids? Yep, what I do countdown?

What's the best? What's the scariest and best method? Well, yours is against the wall, right? Into the corner. First against the wall. No, it's, um, daddy's going to get angry soon. And does daddy ever get angry? Sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, it's, just, yeah, it's, different. It would be, I don't believe in, you should hit gentle parents, though. I think, it's your spanking gentle parents? Oh, I'm hitting them in the face, I'm not spanky, but, um, yeah. Discipline's difficult, it's difficult. Could you punch like a pillow next to them?

That's too much. If you're in like... Punching a pillow next to them. If you're on the train and a gentle parent is letting their kid run wild, they're just expressing their creativity. You should be allowed to grab them,

put all their trousers down and start spanking them like they're a child themselves. Yes. I think that's a way of... I think that's fine. I think hitting gentle parents is fine. Hitting kids is not fine. What like crying in their face?

If you just like, if you had like bloodshot terrified... Or you mean you're crying and then... You know you're crying and that. I've always thought that. Just like... I don't know if it builds a good culture in the house, though. I don't think... The problem is that you then don't leave yourself much emotional room to go

for like, you know, quite urgent situations. Yeah, because tears don't really mean much. If you're trying to get them to, you know, put their trousers on and you're like the end of Rocky, like, Adrian, then I feel like when you're running towards a road, you want them to stop. You don't have much, you know. Yeah. Anyway, Su Chow had been occupied by the Taiping's for four years in 1863.

And their leaders, La Wang and Mo Wang, because Wang is Chinese for King. Okay, they're not brothers. They're not brothers. The Wang brothers. Phil Wang? They might be. Phil Wang. There's a portrayal amongst the Wang's, and Mo Wang gets dismembered.

And he's assassinated by Kong Wang and Singh Wang. And then La Wang escape. I mean, listen, I don't know. It's fucking Wang. It is number wang. It is number wang. I've got, that's number wang. I've got no idea.

Number wang was someone else. It's Nuffa Wang escaped. Yeah, number wang escapes. Anyway, Suu Chow gets surrounded by the chings. Led by the forces under Chang. Fuck me. Right.

Yeah. So, yeah, the wangs are under the kosh by the chings. Who's led by Chang? Like I called Li Hung Chang. Lee hung Chang. And then anyway, thankfully, Gordon. Gordon, there we go.

Fuck. So, fuck. The life raft. of an English name in the typing rebellion. He's nearby with his ever victorious army, which is like calling it. It's like calling an army perfect fried chicken. Yeah.

Anyway, he negotiates a conditional surrender with Wang and he guarantees the lives of the rebels, protections for civilians and no looting. This is the age of kind of liberal interventionism. Right. It's like we are the moral. Blairism. Well, this is proto-blerism.

Right. Despite Gordon. negotiating with the wangs and the chings and the chings and the chas. I mean, not an easy job. Su-cho gets sacked. If you're called Gordon and you have to sort out the wangs, the chings and the chings. Chows! Christ.

Is Gordon the most English male name going? Gordon. Gordon. My wife, I was trying... My wife's called Gordon. My wife's called my wife, General Gordon. Or her back twat. She's got a cane as well.

Gordon's back twat. General Gordon. Her bum is called... yeah the last siege of the last standard cartoon she's died on the toilet anyway

anyway so Christ Sucho gets sacked I mean this must be Big John's favorite history yeah su chow gets boshed when the city is captured on the 5th of December

and despite Gordon's orders despite the liberal interventionist instincts despite the you know this is cricket is how you take a city there is widespread looting arson

rape and mass slaughter and Gordon tries to The whole army the whole time has been like Let us rape Yeah And he's like no and it's just every single time You gotta let us rape But that's how the Chinese are getting paid

So the troops are getting pretty upset Yeah They're upset you've heard their feelings Yeah We need to have a discussion about rape For the morale of the troops Yeah they're really upset Yeah

They are Come on Come on I want a walk Exactly yeah Take me out. Despite having surrendered under the guarantees of safety, the wangs and the other typing leaders are executed by the Qings. I am lost.

I don't know who's. I don't understand. It's very, very simple. On one side you've got Gordon. Yeah. Right. And with who, the ever victorious army. And who's in that?

He's allied with the chings who's led by the Changs. By Chang. It's led by Chang. Yeah. They're fighting the wangs who are in the Taipings. And we're all in the city called Su Chow. Bash. That's...

Anyway, the Wang's... Why has Gordon sided with the Qing's length by Chang? Because he's against... The Taiping rebellion are the rebels against the Qings. But why is he siding with the Qings? That's the Chinese government, who the Britain had come to an agreement with after the opium was. Even though the Taiping's a sort of Christian,

but they're not because it's just some Chinese guy who says he's... So the Brits have sided with the government that they sold opium for silver. Yes, it's not... And now we're allies. Yes. Against... Yeah. Yeah.

Against these murderous Manson family, sort of pseudo-Christians. Right. It's all very simple. Yep, sorry. One of the Wangs, basically, at some point, there's a lot of rape and pillage,

and they all get murdered by the Qings, and Gordon demands arrest and a trial for the treachery of Chang. Yeah. Gordon gets devastated, and he threatens to resign, and he withdraws his force. Right.

So the Imperial Army, or the imps, as Gordon calls them, They want the honour of taking Nanking, which was the Taiping capital. Right. So this is west of Shanghai. And Gordon's not that bothered about that. Gordon was like, well, yeah, it's their country.

They should have the, yeah. But so he disbands the ever-victorious army in June 1864. He then goes to Beijing to advise on the military. He closes the group chat, basically. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think no one really ends group chats to them. I just archive them all.

Yeah, they're just there. Yeah. Group chats are forever. Every now and then on like a stag-do WhatsApp group. has been latent for four years. They're like, I've got tickets to the cricket. Do you want to?

Yeah. Yeah, once you re-summon a dead group, what's that group? It's dangerous. It is dangerous. It's like, it's playing with the dead. People in there who were friends

of like an ex-girlfriend. Yeah, you can't do that. I want to cut them out. Yeah. You know. You're waking someone from the dead. Yeah, you are. To wreak havoc.

Lazarus. Anyway, he then gets given this unprecedented honor of given the yellow jacket of the imperial bodyguard, which had never been given to a foreigner before. It's like the highest

Chinese sort of imperial honour you can get. So like a Freddie Mercury jacket, right? Let's have a look. Yeah, I think the photo's there, yeah. Well, what's interesting is there's now a movement.

So you know the kind of whole Weeb movement? Well, that's what I'm saying is this is kind of... He's not a Weeb though, because Weeb is white guys obsessed with Japanese culture and because basically there's an oversaturation of white guys obsessed for Japanese culture. Yes.

There was a moment where it was a bit niche, but now they're flooding Japan. and just everyone likes anime. So now the based goaded move is to do that for China. Cheeb. Yeah, a cheap to be a cheap. She's a very good name actually for a front bum. Cheeps, put your cheeb away.

Cheeps look down on weeps is what I'm saying. I've got two cheps and a cheeb. Yeah. Sorry, yeah, you're saying that we should all get into Chinese culture. Well, I'm just saying that's where the movements go and now it's kind of looked down. It's now seen as a bit gauche to be into Japanese culture. Chinese culture's coming back. Do you know where that's coming from?

Where? That's the current opium war we're fighting against. to the Chinese tip- Yeah, they want you to become a cheap. Yeah. They want you hooked on Chinese slurry. Yes. They want the 5G masts.

You know? They're going in through Big John. Big John is a fucking... He's a dark agent. He's a foreign agent. He is a foreign agent. Big John is a cheeberophile, whatever that is. He's also a Chinese state agent

during our current century of humiliation. My point is, Gordon disbands the other victorious army. He gets given this big yellow jacket, but he kind of... Some stuff he says, I'm not accepting that, your boys were so disgraceful in the rape and the loot and Su-Cao. Gordon refuses some honours and he returns to England with his Chinese jacket and he gets

known as Chinese Gordon and in 1864 he begins some charity work with young boys and we will get into maybe what that means as well as his return to action in Africa on our next episode. The big one. We will deal with the big one. We will deal with his heroic last stand at Cartoon. We're also doing a Patreon episode where we're going to review the actually very good film

Cartoon, which I think has been lost to the annals of history because of its unbelievable use of blackface. Shear amount of blackface. But if you look past that, it's actually a bit of a hidden gem. If you were a fan of Tropic Thunder because of Robert Downey Jr's character, you were nothing else about the film. You will love the film cartoon and we watched it, both watched it last night. It's a

genuinely brilliant film. It's great. It's all like Lawrence of Robio, really. Yeah. But just for some reason, Once Arabia only has one bit of blackface. I think the 100 black faces is probably what. Yeah, when you're using as extras, white guys blacked up in crowd scenes, goat. Goat. Ghosts, but goat behavior. In my view, you know, why should blackface only be in the main character?

It should be non-speaking roles. It should be the background, yeah. Background artists, blackground artists. You know, I'm a big believer. In blackground artists. If I was a director nowadays, I'd make a film that was very politically correct, but some of the background artists would be blacked up. I would just see if anyone would notice.

Okay. Wouldn't that be fun? So just there's street scenes. Yeah. Yeah. Just, some of watching me like that. Pepper in. Is that got it?

You don't want to bring it up because it feels a bit. Because then it feels like you're the problem. Yeah, because also if you do that and they're not blacked up, then that's something's on you. Exactly. Yeah. Just a little. So how realistic with the blackface? It would be slightly off.

No, it'd be 60s blackface. in that it's white hands yeah it's very obvious it's just very obviously paint isn't it right yeah yeah yeah

weirdly I'm pretty sure in the film there are black actors who have been even more blacked up yeah that's what I thought well there's brown actors

yeah you know because I guess they're just very liberal they just didn't think about it once I just love the idea about the colour shift in the makeup chair

you'd never have a thought once about that that's what I love is a white director with a white makeup actor a black guy and going we'll make you Blacker. Yeah, you need be blacker. They have a colour chart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, we're discussing that film on the Patreon this week and you get innocent access to our next episode, but we'll deal with Khartoum. But for now, if not, we'll see you on Thursday for the continuation of our General Gordon series. Goodbye. Goodbye.