Fin vs History - All torture is relaxing for the first bit | The Salem Witch Trials

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

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Good morning, history fans. Before we get cracking with today's episode, I just want to let you know that we are putting on our first ever live show. Finn versus History Live is going to be at the Leicester Square Theatre in London on Thursday the 24th of April. Tickets are on sale now. That's this Thursday at 10 a.m. You can get them from a link in the description to this episode, or if you go to the Finn versus History Instagram account, they'll be on there.

and for a 10% discount off tickets and all future tickets and all the other benefits you can sign up to the Patreon and become a truther. Either way, we'll see you there. Now on with the episode. Okay, welcome back to Finn versus History as everyone with Horatio Gould. Hello.

And we're talking about witches again. This is part two of our series and the more we learn the more we have sympathy with witch hunters. Yeah, they were right.

I think it was just cause and I think they should retract all the pardons that governments have made for the women they killed. Yeah, and if you... Okay, thanks for joining us.

That's the end of the episodes. That's it really. Women are witches, that's the end. That's our hot take. And the main thing is, if you're thinking, well, there's no witches now,

yeah, because they got rid of all of them, right? Also, look around. I'm sure you can find some. Yeah. I think that's the other lesson is that... Lorraine Kelly.

Lorraine Kelly. I'm coming for you. You know, she's got me a signed portrait. Of what? Of her. Right. It's not a nude, just like... So I used to the warm-up for Pointless.

Okay. The makeup ladies on Pointless is where, as a warm-up, you're like the bottom rank. Who's getting made up? Charlie. I'm going to get a boner. If you're putting Lorraine Kelly on the screen, I'm done. that woman is my kryptonite you're going to get a boner a bit

burn her she's a slap she's got an insatiable appetite for slut I'm attracted to her but I've not fucked her yet she must be the devil um listen so anyway I said to the makeup lady I've got a bit of crush on Lorraine Kelly and she said oh she'll love that

and the next time I came in she brought me a like a framed like um you know how like a celebrity Charlie Celebrities Charlie Charlie is going to

come if you don't get that off right now You're edging me We're both got on our legs cross You're edging me with Google image search It's his cryptocurrency

And is that safe search turned off? My word If that's coming off With safe search turned off Turned on then Children aren't safe

Yeah It's his one weakness It's been Lorraine Kelly It's my Achilles heel It's my Kelly's heel Anyway The makeup lady Brought in a

Framed photo You know how celebrities have like standard photos they give for as all assigned yeah it was that we had like a little iTV logo on it and it said too thin you are so cute with a winky some place yeah yeah and i've got it and then absolute minks when we moved we did when we were moving into our house my wife deliberately put it in the attic and took it out of my office really i used to stare at it every day charlie charlie charlie charlie this is ridiculous this is every episode you've got like graphic pornography we're not two minutes in and you're putting porn on the tv

This is crazy. Now, as a side note, for the patrons, we could go through every one of those nudes and I could tell you which are real and which are I generated. But... We don't have the time. We don't have the time.

Join us on the patron. That's the history's patron special is Finn telling you which Lorraine Kelly needs are real. There is a very gnarly set of nudes from the 90s. Anyway, it doesn't matter. We're talking about witches. Is Lorraine Kelly a witch?

That's... Well, that's for the truce. It's unclear. Yeah. The trial of the century. We believe in due process, right, don't we? No, not due process, which is what the Germans believe in. That's what the Germans believe in.

It's due process. This is where we left off. We should pick up where we left off, which was the Bamberg witch trials in Germany in the 1620s. Quickly break it down. Germans be Germaning. Yeah. It's the beginning of the German-Germaning. It's the beginning of the Germans scapegoating everyone.

They build the first concentration camp for witches. Auschwitch, if you will. I should have said that last time They have witch ovens They're just sliding them into They're burning people It starts here Britain didn't event

The concentration camp Fuck off your hippies Now something that's kind of awkward Do you know Texas barbecue Where on earth are you going Where on earth are you going with this? That is

Was pioneered by German immigrants Right There's loads of German immigrants Oh god You're telling us we can't enjoy ribs No I'm just saying That the technology And the understanding

Of a big industrial ovens No No I think it's a link. I think that's a fair link. I think that should be... You can't call, like, what's his name? German smoke ovens.

You can't call Herschel a pit master. I'm saying that the love of ovens, you can go two different directions. Have you seen zone of interest? The foundational love of ovens are still there. Zone of interest about the greatest German pit master that ever lived. I'm just saying there's two different sides to the Germans. But the one thing that unites them is a love of ovens.

You know? Germans love of. an oven. Yeah. The only way to stop a bad guy with an oven is a good guy.

A guy with an oven. So hang on. So you're saying the Holocaust could have been stopped if a Texan barbecue. I'm just saying,

yeah, if they had used all of that technology towards making delicious smoked meat. Fucking hell. Right. Four minutes in.

And we're on smoking. Right. Let's get back from a safer ground. A thousand women getting killed. A thousand people getting killed. So they,

interesting, they weren't all burnt. A lot of them were hanged. Well, there's not enough oven space, probably. Well, Christ. Back on ovens. Back on German ovens, are we? So, where were we?

So, yes, we were going to get into the torture methods that were used in Auschwich, which was, what was the actual name of it? It sounded for evil, but that's kind of... Malfin's house. Dudenhaus or whatever. The ovenwitch house. The ovenvich house. So in the Bamberg witch trials, which was the most brutal witch trials,

in Europe in Auschwich which was the witch concentration camp that the Germans invented the torture methods and this is to extract witches confessions

so this is for women and children yeah thumb screws women and children first is like the Titanic but instead it's in the oven yeah it's women children first

into the sea throw them overboard women children first just the guys just the guys hanging out on a ship having a nice time kick women overboard be funny if that's what they meant

actually Women are children first. No, not in the boats. In the other. Push them off. Get rid of them. They're weighing us down. It's those fat women that are weighing the shats why we're sinking.

So thumb screws or schrobenstock. Yeah. The accused thumbs were placed in a metal vise and slowly crushed. Right. What I like about the thumb screw as far as medieval torture devices go, it's like a portable one, isn't it? Yeah. You can carry it around in your pocket. Yeah.

It's very, you know, you don't have, it's not like. like heavy machinery. I don't think you need like an expert to operate it. Yeah. I can have a couple of thumb screws. I could get five, I could talk to five women

with five thumbs screws that I could have in my back pocket. The next one is a, it's called a straw pido, strap pido. Okay. Strapido. A straw pido.

Stropido. You're down a bottle of wine with a straw. This is where they basically strapped your hands like behind your back, but like not the comfortable way. Right.

Not like an S&M. Ah, not that. way in like an out, oh, oh, out, that way. And then they strapped both your hands and then they just extended the rope so that you kind of, they just sort of stretched your arms that way. All right, well, it's a lovely,

for a little bit, it's a lovely backstretch. Yeah, that's a funny thing about most torture methods is for a very small period, it's beneficial. Yeah, nearly all of them. Well, ice baths. Yeah, exactly, just, if you're, yeah, if you're getting frozen to death. Yeah, also like being in an oven,

it must be like a sauna for a little bit. back all ovens man yeah you've been burnt at the steak you're sweating out toxins for like a little second it's good for you right yeah I don't think the victims of the holocaust would probably lean on that as a

no but it's funny for two seconds it's good what the health benefit to this place concentration camp this is a spa more like Christ right ten minutes in The torta de alf zen hands The torter des alfziennes The Spanish boot

The Spanisher Steifel Metal or wooden clamps Placed around the legs And wedges were hammered in Crushing the bones I mean that's quite root one Isn't it? That's quite Sam Adelaide's torture Yeah

Just put a hammer through their legs Just hammer their legs It's not the most devious of plots It's quite thuggish I wouldn't say it's torture It's more than assault It's GBAH Yeah

Because what I'm imagining They have stolen Valour because there's a great that's kind of like a long tradition of torture as an art yeah

and you're just you're just hitting you you got to think as something yeah you know you would be tortured

slowly with a hammer on your shin ah it's not really torture is it so they're doing this to women and children

fucking hell so the thing this reminds me of so I listen to a podcast again very bad podcast a lot of that's what this podcast is

that's gonna be a theme for this pod we're listening to literally some of the most boring podcasts I listen to a podcast by a

Canadian woman who spent the first 10 minutes I should have skipped this saying about how she's a she's an actual She's in touch with the occult Right and I said she's got to start Talking about the fucking thing in the title Don't you know to podcast this is a part two of Man where he spent the first 50 minutes talking about

sucking ourselves on Yeah I mean it's a fair point I guess Okay one all The Prayer Stool Akewser forced to kneel on rough edged wooden broads With spikes often for hours or days So this is what I, because this, anyway, on this podcast, this woman said that what they do in Auschwich is they would, the torture would come in, single cells, everyone's got your own cell, you're a woman, the, the male prison guards are, they're all male. Obviously, if there's a male witch that's in the prison, then the men would undress you. They strip you. First thing you do is strip you. Because they're looking for anything weird on your body. Yeah. which means there's a mark of the devil.

So birth, birth marks? Yeah, I mean, fair enough. Third nipples. Yeah. Weird looking nipples.

If you've got, if you're a nipple, have you got burger nips, devil. I've got a friend who's got the smallest nipples I've ever seen it and he would have been killed immediately.

They are so small. It's like a tiny, tiny speck. That's quite dainty, isn't it? That's quite, that's what you get, that's what you want,

isn't it? No, no, because it's not, it's abnormal. These are very small nipples. But that, I think I feel like,

Are they repellent? I mean, it's just anything out of the ordinary because it's like with all these things it's like, it's only because if it doesn't look normal

do we find it weird? Like if you didn't have ears you look weird, right? But you could hear. Now, this is picking up one of the comments from our first episode. This is a long time dispute

between me and you, right? But what everyone commented when we were having that discussion about whether you need your ears of your outer ear to hear was AirPods. and I didn't bring that up at the time Go on

Well, if you think you need your outer ear to hear How do AirPods work? Yeah, but they're inside your ear So I think if the sound is Placed inside your ear, then it works Yeah, fine, so you don't need your outer ear to hear But it catches, so what's this for then? I don't want to rehash this

It's still... My point is, is that air pods You don't need your outer... You could have AirPods, they wouldn't stay in your ear very easily but that's a separate issue. Right, yes. If you didn't have the skin here and it was just some holes

and I started screaming down the hole you would hear something. Thank you. That's all I was asking for. I believe that from the start. I'm just, you know, this catches it sounds. My point is, in this, in Auschwich,

what they would do is so the men would undress the women to look for how horrible their apples were. No, sorry, the men would undress the men. If the women were being tried, then they'd go okay get the woman guard you go and undressor

have a bit of dignity then bring the naked women in here we'll strap her against the wall and we'll shove stuff up her ass so it's like this weird thing where does that have some dignity let's give us some respect go and get changed next door

before we shove something up your arm so what they do is they'd lay out all the torture instruments that they were going to use in that session and different torture yeah it's reminding me of the bad guy in tomorrow and ever dies yes yeah yes

and send Fibald I'm professional Gunter. What's his name? Dr. Gunter. Dr. Kaufman. And that's it. Mr. Bond. Oh, yes. I'm an expert in torture. So anyway, that's what I'm imagining is in Auschwich.

Is Dr. Kaufman for one of the dies? He lays out all his tools. And the actual torture relates to the crime, the particular witchiness that you're accused of. If it's blasphemy, they've got a tongue thing where they shove a thing on your tongue and I think they just sort of cut it off

I mean they basically just cuts your tongue off or something so you can't speak anymore that's a bit of on the nose satire I think again it's less poetic it's a bit of like one news from you isn't it yeah just cut your tongue off private eye yeah

or if they had I don't know rim the devil they'd probably cut the tongue off as well yeah I guess that's kind of like a meme Elon Musk would post about free speech yeah exactly that exactly that. Yeah, that's what... Yeah, that's what's talking

about trans women in sports. That's what... Whipping, prisoners were flogged, obviously. Yeah, vintage. The witch's chair, de Hexenstool, a chair covered in spikes or sharp edges forcing the accused to sit down

for long periods. I mean, again, it's pretty route one, isn't it? It's, um, you shall sit on a spiky chair. Yeah. And that would be uncomfortable. It's some of, some, if you go to like really hipster coffee shops,

often, often good yeah the seating's often like one of these torture yeah yeah yeah

yeah it's like a thin kind of like tree that's been turned into like a I also think those coffee shops probably were the witch hunter to start again

where I would start all right that's yeah the women who make start here fan out from here this coffee tastes too nice you can die

yeah yeah and you're a bit attractive yeah yeah blue hair I mean you're gone oh blue well a lot of the historians have blue hair

interesting well all the historians would be gone yeah Exactly. Yeah. So that's the German trials dealt with. That's all I wanted to say, really.

I've made my point about ovens, I think. Should we move on to the Salem witch trials? So now we've just gone to the Salem witch trials. And also, we didn't talk about the ducking stall, which is a bit of a misconception. Because I think when you're learning about witches, you learned about how they tried witches. And I think it wasn't as common as people thought. But it was a medieval punishment for witches, which was incredible. Which I think it's when a woman is basically a chair that was lowered into water as a form of punishment in medieval.

it was also known as a cucking stall or a scolding store to punish women who spoke out of turn to punish dishonest tradesmen to deter unruly behaviour and I thought that it was like if they floated which is kind of impossible

they're a witch and if they sink they're not a witch but they drown anyway yeah yeah yeah brilliant there's also a weight one they had in the Netherlands where if you're too heavy you're a witch

So that seems to be it There's like these big platforms We do like a pulley system And they have a bunch of weights on one side And they're like yeah If you stand on that And you're heavier than the weight Then you're a witch

But there's so many amazing things like that There was like trial by like Hot molten bar Right So you'd hold like a steel hot bar And you'd have burns Yeah And you'd have three days from to heal

It takes longer than that Yeah Because it's implied If you're correct God will heal them for you Right So they never they never got healed.

No. They always got killed. Yeah. Then the benefit of being a priest, right, was trial by consecrated bread, right? So as opposed to that, which the peasants would get. If you're a priest, all you have to do is swallow a tiny bit of bread. Yeah. And if you choked in it, you were guilty because God would make you choke on it.

Right. Right. You're really fucked if you choke on that. You'll have to chew the bread. Yeah, you chew it. But it's just implied that God will just intervene. Well, if you're swallowing like a crouton whole without chewing it, that's quite easy to choke on. It's not that.

Right, okay. So you're a tour. And how they'd test if you were a priest is you had to read this one verse from the Bible. But then everyone would just learn that specific verse. It's called the neck verse. The neck verse. Yeah, because it's the verse to stop yourself getting, you know, head chopped off, right. So peasants would just learn that thing off by heart, read it, say I'm a priest, get that trial as opposed to the hot bar.

Oh, I see. Yeah. But sometimes peasants fuck tucks, they couldn't read, obviously. Yeah. And they'd read the book upside down. And that I'd give it away. Yeah. Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of How to Fail.

It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right. And what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better? Each week, my guests share three failures, sparking intimate, thought-provoking and funny conversations. You'll hear from a diverse range of voices sharing what they've learned through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day in Sony Music Entertainment Original podcast. listen now wherever you get your podcasts we should get to salem though which is the which is the one the dumdums will have heard of yeah salem's that's that's kind of like there's a crowd please

all right yeah salem's your that's your what is it that's if you're if you're the doby brothers yeah that's um whatever that song is that they do okay um fix you if you're cold play the salem witch trials has fixed you well also the crucible which uh you didn't study at school but that's a it's a play it's all about the salem witch trials written by arthur miller during the 60s i did death of a salesman yeah um But it's, I don't know, as far as like, Willie Lohman, analogies goes, it's pretty good.

I feel like there's not anything. Everything now feels so, any analogy now feels so heavy-handed. But, so it's about McCarthyism, right? Yes. So it was just implying that, that witch hunt, but before that was lame, because now describing something as a witch-hunt.

It's like the modern witch-hunt is being on Twitter, right? Yeah, it's a witch-hunt. It's a post-me-too. It's kind of a bit, like, me-hout. Everything's a witch-hunt. Yeah. I don't, yeah. I mean, the modern,

day which is I guess the modern day witchcraft is what transphobia that's the thing you were telling your neighbour he's transphobic but it's all kind of late Well there's like there's like a book with the witch trials of J.K. Rowling like what she's had to go through

Harry Potter someone's actually someone's actually written a book or like a podcast series called The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling what she's had to go through for I think that was possibly more boring than the First Crusade

maybe the discourse around J.K. Rowley. I find more boring than the First Crusade. Yeah. anyway so Salem which trials bit of context Salem is a town in New England which they founded New England as a colony because England was getting too interesting yeah

it is interesting yeah the first Americans really in the modern understanding of it it was the most boring cunts from England it was the people who are too boring for England well that's a good way to think about it Australia was the most interesting and America was the most boring yeah and weirdly that's now flipped it's flipped yeah in that Americans are like what the fuck are they doing over there? In Australians,

fuck, they're over there, not over here. Yeah. That's, yeah. It is interesting. So, Charles the first,

spicy gay, Latina guy. Yeah, French girlfriend. French girlfriend. We covered that. Everyone thinks she should be more boring. So the real hardcore

boring, the ultras. Yeah, this is getting way too interesting over here. The guy was setting off like beige flares in the way end. Cepia flags and shit. Reading instruction manual. outside out loud chanting chanting whatever plain song they all go on the mayflower yeah and the

this is how boring new england is the first town they call plymouth that's how boring new england is yeah all around there it's always just the most boring there's birmingham birmingham well this is part of the reason that Boston is a yeah part of the reason that listening to i listen to quite an extensive podcast series very well-produced american podcast series very well-produced american podcast about Salem but all the as I said last time everyone, every character is called John, every woman is called Abigail they're all the same person and they've all got

a stupid hat and a buckle they're all annoying and all the towns are English names but they're they're like Essex is north of Cambridge you know I know it's not but then I listen to the Pendleton witch trials I listen to the Essex which trials and it's the same shit as well even though it's across the Atlantic from this

it's still guys called John in the same sounding Chelmsford it's like all these like it's the same thing The place names are like, I don't know, anyway. So the Mayflower lands at Plymouth Rock, carrying 102 Pilgrims, Pilgrims of the Boring Ultras, Massachusetts. Was this before or after the cheese, Pilgrim's Choice? That's a good question, actually. Charlie, when was Pilgrim's Choice? Are they named after the cheese, or is the cheese named after?

What I will say is that if it is, if they are linked, then these boring cunts sure knew a thing or two about cheese. Because it's great cheese. Pilgrim's choice is delicious. second only to daverstow in my opinion for cheddars right you know what davistow guy i don't know davistow mate if you think pilgrim's choice is hot

davastoe will cave your head in really how mature is it fucking it's a milth of a cheese Lisa is Lisa aunt no no no it's Lorraine Kelly Davistow is a hard block of Lorraine Kelly you want Davistow extreme like there's number seven

extreme strength Davistow that's what I buy tastes a roof of your mouth. You could probably use it as mouthwash. Oh, look at that vintage. That's what you want. Okay.

Dabbard's so. All right. So Charlie, you are now just doing your shopping. Charlie's now just doing his groceries on the, on the screen. I mean, who invented,

Pilgrim's Choice? I think he said 1985, I believe. David Hardesty found a Pilgrim's Choice in 1985. Okay, so it's got nothing to do with the Pilgrims, right? Pilgrims, yeah. I mean, American cheese is very bad,

isn't it? Yes. because I imagine the pilgrims thought the cheese game was getting too good in England and then they left and wanted to just be incredibly plain and not really related to any kind of dairy product at all their chocolate is terrible as well oh man Americans cheese chocolate and beer is shit terrible awful I think there's a place for American beer I think

yeah the bin can you get some sound effects over that burn This is our death jam episode. Bop, bop, bop, bwap, bwap, boi bwap. They've got lots of breweries. They make it like American pailails. There's some good stuff out of that.

Yeah, I'm not, as I said, what do you like, Kaling? I like, Eastern European. Yeah, Tiskees. Yeah. There's always a new Spanish, I think there's a new Spanish beer that's brewing. I've seen in some offies that I think it's going to make the taps

because every five years, they need to bring out a new beer, which is surely just brewed in Burton or whatever. Yeah. And all you have to do, it doesn't matter, what you put in that bottle it can be any of the shittiest lager it just has to have an elderly

Mediterranean man on holiday in the 1930s holding a glass of beer and everyone's like that's a bit of class that is yeah yeah but then also beer adverts are the easiest thing to make because all you've got to set it is somewhere sunny and you can see as long as you can see the condensation on the beer I think

brilliant that's brilliant I'm one of them I'd like when I'm right now because what I like is cold beer in a hot place yeah that's what I want yeah I don't actually want the beer that they're selling. But it said you're having farty beer in a shit country. I'm having farty beer in a shit country. It's grey.

And the beer's just bubbly farts. Anyway, so the pilgrims, they land in Massachusetts. So I imagine, they established the Massachusetts Bay Colony. I imagine they're all speaking like they're in the departed. Yes. But they're actually Cornish. Which is, it comes from Cornish, right? are they actually

are the initial pilgrims Cornish or just some of them they left from Plymouth right which is in Devon is it yes save yourself

save yourself in the comments genuinely the viewers will be more annoyed I believe you I'm getting confused with Plymouth in Cornwall than they will

about any of that Auschwit stuff you said at the start no initial Pilgrimus in America were not Cornish brilliant but it is set south from England the Pilgrims were a group of English separatists

right they weren't Cornish separatists fine but the there is we talked about this that the our accent we might say to americans we're speaking english properly as it's supposed to be spoken right which we think but this r p right was like an almost victorian development to sort of distinguish class right yeah and while americans actually much closer probably to old

english right because it's got the twang ding mann't sure isn't it yeah yeah yeah so anyway it's more fun to imagine that they are all actually yes speaking like they're from the Scorsese. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mark Woolberg. My name's John Wintra. I'm a Puritan from Boston. She's a fucking witch.

I'll tell you that much. I'll tell you that much. She's a fucking witch. Look at her size of those cans. She's a fucking brat. The colony enforces strict religious laws laying the foundation for future witch trials. I write.

1641. Witchcraft becomes a capital crime. Massachusetts adopt the English law, making witchcraft punishable by death. Good. Yeah. um again happy to help out right um so part of the problem with uh Salem is that uh something something it's quite boring but it's more to do with the uh in at some point they stopped just automatically copying english laws slowly happened right yeah and is this happened at it before say yeah because when they then come to Salem they don't really know what to do because they're not, they don't have the, the, which law.

They haven't updated their iOS, basically. Right. Basically, in the new world, every like 10 years, they'd be like, software agreement, still English laws, do you agree? Yeah. At this point, they kept forgetting to plug their phone in. Right. So there's new software never updated overnight.

Fine. So their phone was bugging out. There's lots of bugs. They haven't been fixed. Right. They need to update, but they're not. Once again, to empathize with these guys, if you are setting out a colony in lands,

there's Native Americans, the Dutch are trying to kill you. There's a, it's a very scary, dangerous place. The last thing you want is those are witches. Well, we need to get, yeah. So the Salem witch trials happen in a small little village. This has happened in Salem Village, which is not Salem Town.

Salem Village is like a collection of little shit hamlets. It's right on the border of the unknown. So at this point, America is just the strip of the East Coast. And then it's just American Indians terrifying. And every now and then these people come out of the woods with their weird plaited hair on their big horses and they scout

people and they kill kids and they throw their bodies around and they mutilate the corpses, they cut the faces off, all this shit and it's fucking terrifying. Yeah, scary. It's really scary. And also woods, even in Europe, the woods are seen as like a

don't go in there. Every wood is a Japanese suicide forest to people here It's like It's just You don't want to go in the woods Now did you know That the Native American

genetically did not have The balding gene Much like Koreans genetically do not have The BO gene Because they're hairless I think There's also just something

genetic going on Do we discuss this We just discuss the Korean thing We didn't discuss the Native American thing Right so they don't bald So that's why they have great-headed hair They just have perfect Stephen Gerard hairlines

All of them Yeah Well Stephen Gerrins is almost too good Yeah He's one the only people Where I'm like You need to lose you need to have more of a receding hairline.

Because it's almost his eyebrows. His head doesn't have any shape. Yeah. He's got no forehead. No. You need a lit. You want it to go back. It's just this perfect line.

But so they used to call white people eagles, like the eagle people because they just never, they'd never seen anyone with a receding hairline and all these fucking like bald geysers. It wasn't smallpox. It was seeing bald people that killed them. Yeah. My God, these white people, they're so ugly and bald. Yeah.

So, um, yeah. So 1690s. Salem. It's a little village, a little series of villages. You can hear the rain now picking up as the story. Now the ASMR begins. We are filming in a tin can. And the first

accusations start 1692. Betty and Abigail. So everyone's called Abigail. She's angry. Abigail. Betty's the only person who's not called Abigail, I think. Right. I say this. I've got, there'll be other names but I genuinely, I've got no fucking idea

or any of them are. So. Betty's not the only person is not called Abigail and Betty ages 9-11 this is 9-11 the daughter and niece

of the Reverend Samuel Paris they begin having fits Yes Now they're screaming They're convulsing And they're speaking weird Black Church

It's Black Church Yeah They've gone to Black Church And everyone's like What the fuck are you doing Yeah But they don't know They don't know

What Black Church is yet I'd love to go to Black Church Oh definitely Would you get involved? yeah yeah definitely because you get a little space to do whatever you want right

because it's whatever you're doing is the power of God free style yeah I'm starting to hump the pews that is what God intended right take trousers down put your ass pot helicopter

yeah what do you think yeah what do you think would be the line where people stop cheering you and going probably open defecation I reckon rather than closed

closed defecation well closed defecations just shit in your pants that's not yeah that probably has happened God told me to ship my purse. You probably got so overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit

that you shacked yourself but pulling your trousers down and making a sort of almost dirty protest I think that would probably be a line for me. Big poopie. Big poopie in the church.

By Finn Taylor. A new summer thriller. Big poopie. That's an airport book isn't it? Dad's going on holiday. The president. The president

has done a shit in church. Big boopy in the church. the next John Grisham novel Right So Betty and Abigail Are two pilgrim children They begin having fits

They scream They're convulsing on the floor Yeah Everyone in Salem Start convulsing on the floor Doctor doesn't know what's wrong with them So blames witchcraft Yeah because they don't really know anything

Often with these doctors Back in these days I can't even imagine what you're a doctor You know less than me I feel doctors back then. I guess the town doctor is the cleverest person in the village, isn't it?

I would probably know more if I was going to... It's weird calling for a doctor. Should we chop it off? He's got a cold. Take a shrouds down, see what's wrong with this. You take his trousers down?

I have no idea, to you honest. We haven't really invented science yet. Doctor, my eyes hurt. Take a trousers down and see what it is. We see what's going on up there. Get in the undercarriage. They're mechanics, really, aren't they? So he blames witch crimes.

because, again, it's a spooky place. There's native Indians or whatever. Raping and chopping your heads off. Very spooky. Spooky. A hundred native Indians coming in and raping and killing all of you. Gather around the fire. Not that fire.

That's near some Indians. So they blame witchcraft. The odd thing is, is that people are incredibly religious and also, like, quack spirituals. Like those two things kind of. That's what's weird. New Agee. Yeah, they're both.

Yeah. It's like they devout, boring Protestant God botherers. God botherers. And yet also... Well, they're bothering God or bothering someone else about God? Bothering me. I'm going to read about them.

It's fucking boring. They're God botherers and yet they're also like crystal quacks, like witchy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what's weird. It's both those things co-exist. I do think this is the stupidest people

have ever been. This time period. I think this is the stupidest people have ever been. And I think Salem is just Salem is it just stupidity on stupidity. It's compounded. But wouldn't you feel like being a comedian in the modern age is like being a witch back then?

Wouldn't you say for him? Well, I thought we were the modern day philosopher. Oh, I don't know. We're one of the two. Yeah. Certainly sometimes I feel like I'm in Salem. It's just whether they laugh or not. That's the difference. Yeah, I feel like it's a witch hunt, you know? Every time I bomb.

Well, burn me. That's what I say. my paedophile joke doesn't work set me on fire right so all these all these young girls are two young girls right two young girls betty and abigail which is also what every girl is called in salem so uh they start convulsing

a doctor blames on witchcraft because he's not a doctor he's just got a different hat to everyone else right um now titiba tituba tituba tituba yeah is a Caribbean slave right of indeterminate age. She is accused by Betty and Abigail, along with Sarah

Good and Sarah Osborne, are practicing witchcraft. Are Sarah and Sarah adults? They are young women. Right. They're probably ugly because of the time period. Don't tell me with a good time. One of them is pregnant. And I think one of them has a child. Anyway. Right. So Tichiba doesn't know what the fuck's going on. She's

Caribbean. Right. Sarah Good Is it in she's just baked Yeah She's just Yeah This is the craziest white people Have been

It's just like So basically From her perspective We're even mad at So it's February night's two First arrests Two white Puritans And a big batty gie gile

So Big Batty Gial Tituber Yeah She's wearing What you're wearing Tracks right yeah she's wearing a track track soon it says like slut on her arm right yeah she's

smoking a big dooby yeah yeah yeah so she confess is under pressure but bear in mind that um the like she doesn't know what's going on in that she's a slave she's obviously the lowest she's like lowest ranked in the village and the evil white guys just say you're you're the easiest one to pin this on so she then says that yes she did work with the devil and she then blames loads of other people she just basically she writes a I think there's a devil book

the men are like well you wrote a bunch of names in the devil book didn't you right she's like she wrote you don't owe me pretty yeah she's like well well-behaved women don't make history well you're making history we're going to talk about you

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eyes. Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SELOR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. Anyway, she puts nine names down in the book. Eventually, she says there are nine names. So this is the start of the wildfire. Right. So March, April 6, 1960-92, more accusations spread. Accusations spread beyond Salem to neighbouring towns.

Rebecca Nurse, a respected elderly woman, is accused and arrested. So the colony establishes a special court to handle the caseload because it starts to get really popular. Right. And it's like... The Leveson Inquiry. It's the Leviton inquiry.

People are trying to break in to get in. It's a hutton inquiry. You know, people are turning up desperate to see Jack Strauss 10-hour testimony. So May 6092, Governor Phipps establishes the Court of Oyer and Terminer.

Fucking hell. Oh yeah, here we go. So this is the big thing is that the court decides that it will accept what's called spectral evidence. Spectrum evidence.

Evidence of being on the spectrum. Part of me does think are these women just autistic. Yeah. And it's hard as... It's harder to diagnose a woman. Yeah. Well, ironically,

being a witch is harder to diagnose men. Yeah. So, you know, it's both, you know. But a spectral evidence is testimony that a person's spirit was seen committing witchcraft, i.e., did someone say, yeah, no, I saw her sucking off the devil in my dreams? It's basically when women

tell, when women get angry, when women get angry at you, because you cheated on them in your, in her dreams. Yeah, guys are doing that. Yeah. This is the male version. Yeah, but also it's like, but you're as powerless as you are. Yeah. Like, if I wake up and my wife's angry at me because of what I did in her dream. With Lorraine Kelly. With Lorraine Kelly. which is also what I did in my dream that's like you're like well fucking what what could I do

if you've dreamt that I cheat on you then and you're angry you're bringing that into the real world that's what it is right so women are basically completely backed into a corner yeah not amazing time to be a woman I reckon

I think the best I think it didn't really start being good until 1980 really yeah we will do the history of women it'll probably be a one part of short episode at some point So June 16... We'll couch it in one of our World War II episodes

We'll do a 15 minute Always like an ad break Yeah we'll do an ad break for women Like an ad read It'll be the history of women Yeah and it'll be like Hey guys remember women Anyway

So June 1692 first executions Bridget Bishop Is the first person tried and convicted She's hanged Now this is the interesting thing Germans obviously they're burning people That's what they do Yeah Americans they hang them

so it's Salem was there's no burning going on Salem they're hanging them from trees and shit they like I guess Americans like lynching don't they yeah but also they have no good Texas barbecue just saying that there's a link there this is yet they're hanging their beef to dry they're making jerky they're making witch jerky

so hang on so you're saying that German immigrants in what the 19th century or 18th century yeah yeah they brought the smokers the Auschwitch smokers well the proto Auschwitz the Auschwitch yes yes the Auschwitch

smokers, which they burnt the witches in, they took those over, and that's now Texas barbecue. Yeah. Wow. Look that. They started accusing cows of witchcraft, and said, this is bloody good, actually. Let's throw a salty rub on them. This cow's a witch, I reckon. I reckon we should rub some paprika on this cow. That's how you cure her. People

say in the comments, they don't learn anything in these episodes. I think that's bollocks. I think it's a complete bollocks. I think that's completely unfair on us. This should be in the curriculum, I think. Also, I apologize I'm wearing white socks as an oversight by me, but if you have probably already commented it in the first part, you are a loser. I am where, It does look like Michael Jackson,

which it stops me fighting the allegations, I guess. You're wearing white socks and a banana tie. It's a pretty non-seat. It's not good, is it? So, Rebecca Nurse, Sarah Good, Elizabeth Ho, Susanna Martin. Well, Elizabeth Ho. Elizabeth. First against the wall.

They're all hanged. Blah, blah, blah. Everyone's hanged. The Reverend George Burroughs, who recites the Lord's Prayer in the scaffold. It's all these names as well. I went to school with all these. George Burroughs, Sarah Good. Oh, this is what they had to do.

I like English names are so no nonsense, don't you think? And maybe it's just because we speak English. But I just feel there's just like, it's a real fucking Alleride's hoof. Yeah, yeah. You know. It's a forward defensive, most of them. Brian Cook. No run.

James Plummer. No run. Yeah. It's Alistair Cook wearing down the paceman, isn't it? So blah, blah, blah. Everyone dies, but this is, this was an interesting thing. I think this happened to Tichiba. What they did was they said, well, you've got to recite the Lord's prayer.

Right. Because bear in mind, everyone's a die. dumb, and they can't read. Yeah. So you've got to recite the Lord's prayer, and if you get any of it wrong at all, you're a witch.

Fuck. Why, because the devil is going to be... The devil's talking to you, trying to make you... And Tichiba, because she's Caribbean, she says,

rather than hallowed, she says, eh, man, or what... No, she says like hallowed rather than hallowed. Right, yeah. Because she's...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go back over it. Right. says helloed and they're like yeah he fucked it you're dead yeah

so um but they get so September 699 to by this point they've killed 1920 people so it doesn't

really touch the sides with the Germans yeah but then rookie numbers nothing in history does nothing in history does but this is interesting

Giles Corrie who's an 81 year old man now he's he's convicted of he's convicted of being a witch and he is he's pressed to death with stones

like a trouser press it ends up like flat Stanley yeah so he's put on the floor and then they put stones on him and every time they put a stone on they go you want to say you're not a witch and he goes no no and then they put another stone on

and he goes you want to say you're on a witch and this keeps happening until eventually the weight of the stones crush him once again my thing about torture methods for a little bit it's quite nice quite pleasurable there's a period stones on the back

that's quite nice when you have hot rocks on your back I guess it's the front though I imagine but still there's a period where it's just like it's a nice weight or you.

Lovely weight feel like you're being held like you're being held like that's a bit too much yeah must be so slow though do you think it be awkward I mean I know he's 81

is it awkward being pressed to death like yeah because you must see through you must see the guy and was just looking at him like and the guy lifting the guy lifting stone

is supposed to be knackard yeah are you which no another stone are you rich oh I was saying a you're a

Are they like stonehenge stones or are they like rocks? I'm one of those. Also he's 81. It's probably gravel. Some hardened criminals lasted half an hour under £400 before pleading to the indictment. Okay, so it's like, it's like, it's, you know, it's a lot of, it's a big cagey, yeah. Right. So these guys aren't benching much in these days.

Yeah. So they can't take the weight. Yeah, exactly. They don't really have protein powder at this point or creatine. Basically, in October 1692, the, the madness. ends because they accuse the governor of Massachusetts wife of being a witch and then he goes all right no actually there's the witches don't exist do you know what the game's over stop playing they're a lot fun no witches don't know time's up yeah and he dissolves the court and he's like

that's the end of it so in may 6093 so about a year afterwards yeah they release all the witches they've banged up they pardon the women they've died fuck the women that accuse the other people, they apologize. So everyone apologises? Yeah, they get some compensation for the families in 1711. So it was like the post office scandal? 1957, the federal government apologises in the Senate

for the state of Massachusetts formally exonerates the remaining convicted. Yeah, but like Boston in the 50s, it feels like are they should be apologising for what these fucking nutters did in the forest in like a wooden hut? Given that they haven't really formally apologized for like, slavery. Yeah, it's so funny. It's because it's white or white crime.

That's why. Yeah, it is. Yeah, that is interesting how they all, it's hard to get an apology these days, but everyone's admitting guilt. All the, because a lot of it, certainly in the Crucible,

it's like the, the young girls, Abigail and stuff. That's kind of like attention-seeking behavior, right? They've used that as a way of... Well, there's a theory that, admittedly, I saw a clip of Joe Rogan saying this, so who fucking knows.

But, I mean, I mean, he, he believes anything at any one point. Whoa. Yeah, what's the maddest thing you think you'd get Rogan to believe? If you went on that podcast.

Rogan would listen to this and think it was real history. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he'd go on his podcast and be like, dude,

do you know the Tidabur was like a Caribbean woman? Yeah, she was always, the eye the whole time. Yeah. But I know, apparently.

There was five billion people on his podcast. Yeah, and then they all believe it. And then that's fucking, that's why we end up in this bloody mess, isn't it?

It is, isn't it? Very private eye of us. So, but he claims, or the last person he spoke to, the last thought in his head, is that it's a thing called Ergot, which is when... When Egot, isn't that where you get an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and a Tony? Yeah, yeah, it's gay musical theatre. It's the gay musical theatre a lot.

They're witches. No, it's Ergot, which is when there's a frost. Because the other thing about this is, I should have said, is that the 15 to the 1700s, is called a mini ice age. Yes. Because it's unseasonably cold winters. For 200 years? Yeah.

And so there's a lot of crop failure and famines and stuff. I mean, that would suck. Because it's already, winter's already shit now. You're already thick. You're already ugly. Imagine it being really cold.

For 200 years. And there's no, and the bread goes off. You wouldn't know what a good winter was like because your grandparents had shit winters. Yeah. But this is 200 years. Your grandparents' grandparents had shit winters.

Yeah. ah fuck so are we in like a relatively all right time well it's the opposite isn't it it's all getting hot yeah we'll be all right though haven't we oh we will be fine yeah yeah because when it really hits the fan the channel would be like the med right yeah I do we'll be having that's the day it at least the Sahara all right I'll stay at home it just means it's going to go on easy jet to go to Italy for holidays I'll see you there on a plastic chair brother I'll be in Bournemouth just sitting there like that just staring at people not the day not the day

it's too many it's too hot But the big thing The climate change is British people are going to stop working That's going to be... Yeah, I can't wait. It's brilliant. It's the only time I'm going to be forced to retire

When the sun explodes, that's when I'm retiring. Yeah, more fossil fuels, please. Let's speed it up. How Presbyterian I am I have to wait for a nuclear explosion. So, Joe Rogan, or whatever scientist he talked to, he claims that it's Ergot, which is a When the Frost, basically, it's like a frost attacks wheat.

Or, no, it happens when frost gets in the wheat harvest. Right, it's too cold to have a good harvest. It's a fungus. Right. And if you ingest it, if it gets in the wheat, then it gets in the flour, if it gets in the bread, if you eat the bread, basically causes hallucinics and convulsions. So there's a very, there's quite substantial. And Rogan loved that theory, I bet. Yeah, obviously.

I mean, that's see what, yeah. I then Googled it and a very ugly, boring woman told, said something about it as well. So I think, okay, fair enough, that's, that's, that's, what was a more interesting clip? Well, the Rogan one. That's why, that's why he's so popular. Because no one wants to see the other woman talking about anything. But I just meant, okay, if a boring woman has said it, then it actually could be a thing.

Do you know about stoned ape theory? Do you know about that? No. I mean, that's obviously Rogan's really pushing that. But it is quite a big theory within academic circles, pretty bold, basically saying the way that we developed superintelligence as a humans, right, more so than any other animal, right? Was that the monkeys, they would eat, like, hallucogenic mushrooms and fruit,

And that kind of slowly grew their brain to kind of get past that point of being like monkeys that you became like super smart. So that would that basically be what the Adam and Eve story is referencing? Yeah. Is that the apple is a mushroom.

And then you realize. So it's just monkeys and they're just fucking, whoa. Yeah, yeah. And then you become us. So, but he thinks that basically the reason people were fitting and seeing apparitions

is because it was just, it was in the brain. It's bad bread. Yeah. What do you think about that? So did the ugly woman tell you it was bullocks? No, the ugly woman said that's the thing. Oh, sorry.

Oh, okay. So that's why I'm bringing that up. Maybe. Because it does seem absolutely mad. Well, it seems weird. Because, you know, at the start of, in the last episode, we talked about the sexual nature of women. If they're convulsing, obviously at this point, men, the female orgasm doesn't exist

at this point in the minds of the popular imagination. women don't start coming until about 1980 Well, it gets discovered in 1980, doesn't it? Yeah, they discover the, yeah. It's a big thing. The female orgasm is discovered. Until then, it's just like, what are you crying about? Yeah.

Yeah. What do you mean it was a mythic ideal, right? The female orgasm, it's sort of like a... Homer wrote about it. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's more of a concept, right? Yeah, exactly. Very abstract thing. Yeah, it's like in horror stories.

Yeah. If you don't behave yourself, the female orgasm. will come from the forest and get you. Yeah, exactly. Go to bed, or the female orgasm will get you. So the whole convulsing and, like, crying and screaming out, I thought, well, maybe they're like, you know, because they're young girls, maybe they're discovering their sexuality. Fine.

Fine. It's very British. Fine. I'm fine with that. Fine with that. That would be absolutely fine, that would. Yeah. So basically, maybe they've, like, had that first moment where, well, not a shower head, because

it's the 70th century. but you know or on a rocking horse rocking horse that's probably what it was rocking horse or a particularly sat on a big

fucking radish I don't know isn't like the story you read to your kid you can it oh yeah the last page

is he shoves to turn him off his ass that's what it is anyway I was thinking oh maybe it's a sex thing maybe these girls

are like convulsing with sexual like you know maybe just screaming whore as you're reading it on Wikipedia Maybe it's because it's men

looking at women masturbating and going well that's not a thing yet So that's witchcraft That's you communing with the devil You're a whore, you're stinky Let's burn you Or maybe it's just they ate some bad They had a bad sandwich

Who fucking knows? It's a terrible sandwich Terrible sandwich I mean I've had some terrible sandwiches But that is a fucking I've had a dodgy prawn in my time But this To start seeing the devil will then get bird at the stake

Or hung from a tree So anyway It's bleak times It's pretty bad And then you said That you've been doing some research into Richcraft now Do Saudi Arabian witchcraft

Let's see how recent it is So I believe that In 2006 A witch has been executed In Saudi Arabia Which I feel is too Soon Too recent

to be executing witches, I reckon. Peter Crouch was in the England's world. Yeah, it's the World Cup. Barden, Barden, all that's going. Saudi woman executed for witchcraft and sorcery. Yeah, it is, they're now becoming one of those powerful countries in the world, Saudi. Yeah. And of course you want, cultural relativism is important, but this feels a bit, I don't know, bad, if you ask me.

executing which is in 2006 I'd say that's bad I'd say if you take anything away from this is that excuse me weird about Saudi so obviously built on that line city right you've seen all those bad things and kind of

at any point in history there's there's the place where the money and the modernity is right and you could argue now that's Saudi right that's where all the money's going that's where the new idea of what a city is that's where the brightest and best will kind of be attracted because of the money

but it's going to be a weird place where you're going to be in a flying car accused of witchcraft in such a mad combination where they're moral philosophies from the Middle Ages

but then they're living in Blade Runner Yeah It's really odd That's a great film that What? A soundy Blade Runner would be great Well you

Women can't drive the flying cars Basically No So we'll have flying cars But women won't be able to drive There'll be less accidents In Blade Runner be safer streets

safest roads safest roads in the world anyway I think that probably I think that rounds it up yeah I mean we're going to do African witches but we didn't do any research and yeah

there's never stopped us in the past though no it hasn't actually thank you so much for listening we will have a Patreon app I don't know what it will be this week but it's on every Friday there's a bonus episode and yeah you can become a truther

and sign up to the Patreon and you'll get every part of these little series in one go on a Monday morning but if not thank you so much for listening and we will see you

again next time see you next time you next time