Fin vs History - Back when Pooing Yourself meant something | The Troubles (part 1)

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

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Welcome back to another episode of Finn versus History. I'm here with Horatio Gould. And today we're talking about Northern Ireland. Yes. The troubles. And I'd like to start this by saying that I do still want to sell tickets in Belfast. Right. I'm not doing that on the tour.

Oh, you're fine. I'm fine. Unless they have a short memory, which actually they're famously don't. I think famously they have a very long memory. I think that is the problem. It's also probably the closest thing to a live issue we've dealt with.

Yeah. Will it ever feel like it's not live to us? Because that's what I love about... What in our lifetimes. Yeah. What I love about this, I mean, first I've got to say that I'm coming in hot

because it's one of my favorite. Top 10 history for me, troubles. Yeah. For what reason? Right. It's... Yeah, what it plays in, This is why this is a good topic.

Okay, so top 10, obviously, Nazis, Hitler, World War II, Holocaust, 9-11, 9-11, Blair Iraq, Slobodan Milosevic, disintegration of Yugoslavia. We get it, you're straight. I'm a straight man. Brooks drift, Anglo-Zool. Scramble for Africa, big yes. Yeah, the troubles. The troubles is, so 9-11, what, 3,000 people die?

Well, I imagine your scramble for Africa is similar to, I don't know, you're in a long-term marriage and you remember that one crazy one-night stand, you know, you had in your youth. It's sort of like an escapism, right? It's a feral, yeah, six guys, the German, a French, an Austrian, and we all have a very big meeting about all. You were young, you had no responsibilities, you know. Yeah, that's Scramble for after this. Those are the days.

That's the peak of the British Amos, all that sort of stuff. Oh, the Raja's top ten. Anyway, the troubles. So 3,000 people die in 9-11, I think. Charlie, can you just confirm how many people die in 9-11? I think around that. It's around 3,000. I think you ballparked it.

What's the death toll of the troubles? I think it's about 3,000 and a half thousand. So it's 9-11 over 30 years. Right. So that's what you're... Okay. Yeah, 3,600. Okay.

It's like test cricket. 9-11. It's slow. It's drawn out. There are periods of intense frenzy. The whole thing is fucking chaos. What I love about the troubles... Then it slows down.

It slows down. You think, oh, this is a bit boring. Yeah. And then it heats up. And then just wait. The fast bowler's coming back on. McGuinness is... Bobby Sand comes to...

new bowler from the pavilion end martin mcginnis fuck mcginnis has entered Bobby sand in the crease what what's this what's he doing he's smearing his shit on the creek that's not cricket he's shitting on the crease I've never seen anything like this in my life he's smearing his shit on the stubs that's got to be ight

it's basically there's also the accent so 9-11 would be I guess 20 20 but it's more it's 20 it's 100 it's like it's too too much happens too quickly it's a vine Exactly. This is a Russian novel. Yes. This is,

there's like super narratives. Slowly unraveling. It's boring for lots of it. The accents is close to the Nazis for me in that like, you know, he can chagun chagand laden, darden, darden, darden. Like it gets there. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

As far as villains go, the tough Northern Irish accent is up there. Yeah, terrifying. Like terrifying. Yeah. If you're getting tortured, the gay German and the really straight Northern Irish guy are the two most terrifying guys to be talking. torturing you, right? Yeah, because you know

you're going to be fucked by both. Because the German, when it's like, I will slowly peel your skin off value watch, you know, that's terrifying, but the guy, I'm going to get a hammer and smash in your kneecaps. But it could be saying anything you think you're going to be tortured. Do you want a coffee?

I'll make you a black coffee night. Look at me again, and I'll make you a coffee. The accent's phenomenal. It's brilliant. I love the Northern Irish accent. The uniforms. It's also as, I love how as two British men, as two Protestant British men

We are You know The default as we've said Yeah Factors reset reset Reset First thing on the Sims That's us

As you said before I love how it's impossible To talk about this objectively No matter how objective we think we're being Oh really Because you could say something As opposed to how objective We're a very objective on the show

The show is a study in objectivity But the whole thing is a mess Like if you go on the Wikipedia article for The Troubles. Right. We're often on Wikipedia articles for military history. The belligerents

will make even the least ADHD person over-stimulated. Really? There are so many acronyms, belligerents, different, ultimately as Catholic, national, even that's fun to say,

Baladjaran. Even that's fun to say. Yeah, it's, what I love about the Northern Irish accent is you enjoy every syllable. Every syllable. They're sitting there,

they're sitting down, they're having a long luncher. Never a syllable wasted with the Northern Irish. They're hitting everything. Maled. run So it's but even like even if you were to say this is like Britain's or you'd say even see even Britain you know you're leaving out Northern Ireland

So if you said this is the UK's Vietnam this the troubles even by saying that you are then implying that Northern Ireland's not in the UK which would piss off Yeah So it's just the linguistics of this yeah are so fucked and that's what you love that's what I love I love I love just like listen we're gonna I'm trampling over things. Oh, this is going to be an absolute mess. It's a crapsho. It's, you know, all the different, you've got the... Even Northern Ireland, that's political.

Even saying Northern Ireland. Yeah, the north of Ireland for Catholics. Well, it's like dairy, brackets, London dairy. Everything is trans. Everything's non-binary. Everything's using day-then pronouns. I call it England dairy just to really hammer at home. That's that England dairy, isn't it?

British dairy. Like, everything is so charged, the language of it. you're constantly having to you know it's like someone with 20 pronouns yeah and you're like oh fuck say yeah because what are you identifying as well well when it comes to this identifies that you know it's a very z's uh before 11 i'm they then between the hours of 11 3 i'm z you know people who use z pronouns i'm like come on yes like they all right yeah but when you get to z and like x and stuff it's like i guess is when you use your name that's quite individual what it feels like with the troubles is because it is, and you go to Belfast, it does feel, it feels like

it could be a city in the Midlands like aesthetically, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it feels very British aesthetically. So when you hear about this, because it's removed, it does feel like a dystopian fantasy novel about British societal collapse. Yeah. You know, like children of men, you know, where it's like part of what makes it a thrilling dystopia is because it's familiar but strange. Yeah. It's eerie. That, I don't. I'd, houses I know look like that but what's he did what the fuck is it yeah but what I love about it was a civil war in our parents lifetimes in our country my aunt's from Belfast so she lived through a lot of the 70s oh really just like Protestant uh don't know actually because that's the amazing

I imagine she would be she lives over here but that's the amazing thing is that it's like it is the reconciliation after it majority mostly it's kind of amazing given that it was essentially a score draw. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. Is it partly why maybe it's, is it an underrated topic? Certainly globally, but because, because obviously Israel, Palestine, that's the big

boy when it comes to this sort of thing. Asymmetric warfare. Yeah. And everyone's kind of, a lot of people have the interest in that. Yeah. The troubles, I don't know how much people care about it outside of the UK. It doesn't, does it cross? Yeah.

Well, Americans famously always get like, you know, go to Dublin, go it's brilliant to be in the UK. Yes. All that stuff. Okay. Yeah, some Americans for sure. But yeah, once again, it's like cricket. It's hard to explain. And it's not for you.

No, it's not for you. Yeah, and it's fine that you don't get it. I'd find it boring too. Yeah, it's 30 years and it's a draw. It's test cricket, all right? It's five days. No one wins, but it's just something that happened while we're like, right? That's the point.

Yeah. So what we're going to do in this episode, because this is a massive topic. Yeah. And we're, you know... We're burning through things pretty fast. The first time I thought, I don't think we can do this in a week. Chairman Mal, yeah, we'll whack that out in a week. Done.

So what we're going to do is in this episode we're going to explain the context of the conflict, try and get us up to about 1969, which is seen as the official beginning of the quote, The Troubles. In our next episode, friend of the show, the other part of the in-cell holy Trinity, Vittori Angeloni, will be with us. He's from Belfare, so it'd be good to have a British perspective on this. He'll hate that. But we're going to do 1972. We'll see how we get. We'll see how we do it. But it's going to be an ongoing series.

Yes. I do really the same length as the actual troubles. Who called it the troubles? I don't know, actually. Can we find that out, Charlie? Who first called it the troubles? Yeah, I don't know. The troubles feels...

Because you know the English Civil War, people at the time called them the troubles. The people from Gloucester digging up turnips. Oh, yeah? They called it the troubles. They didn't call it the Civil War because they didn't understand it as a civil war. Oh, so anything that bad happens to Irish people, they called the troubles.

Right? No, but this is in, no, sorry, English people called the Civil War the Troubles because they didn't know what was going on. I mean, it does have that great English understatement of troubles. Oh, so he, yeah, so it was called the Troubles pretty much as soon as it started. Because the troubles, I'm thinking like tummy troubles. Do you know what I mean? That's the other thing is it's a brutal sectarian conflict and it's just calling it the

oopsies basically. The whoopsie daisies, the no-nows, oh no, another bomb, whoopsie daisy. Bit of trouble here. Yeah, that's totally it. well it's the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland so it's a British guy it's a Westminster politician going there's a bit of a pickle over there

they've got a dicky tummy across the ocean or something there's lots of bombs going off so a bit of context island of Ireland as a whole is famously not British yes Britain

Great Britain hang on there's the UK which includes Northern Ireland at time of record and just just you see what I mean just constantly trying to just constantly trying to back yourself into every corner

because there's about seven audiences you're playing to when you talk about this topic and all of them sound like shopping channels UVF, UDA, IRA they're all shopping channels IVF, QVC it's like you know how people go on about

oh there's too many letters in the LGBT thing that's just Northern Ireland in the troubles it's like there's so many acronyms there's so many letters all of them hate each other yeah anyway

so famously Britain and Ireland are different countries then let's go right back to the It all starts kicking off around the Tudors right Henry the 8th Yeah big fat fucker But we don't learn about Ireland through the Tudors No It doesn't seem to come into the English imagination

That we were doing shit then there Ireland remembers I don't remember famously they remember everything Britain forget Yes Britain needs to forget to carry on But Ireland remembers everything it's like a marriage where like a guy does something like forgets to clean a cup up

yeah and the woman's going to remember that and bring it up in an argument 30 years later do you let anything go yeah yeah surely you can wash that mug up 30 years ago i mean i'm not comparing you know bloody sunday to a cup not being washed up i mean actually is like it's a bit like russia ukraine if we're doing more direct parallel go on like that's our it's our ukraine isn't it like a smaller country with a slightly different ethnicity our arguably to a bigger country that we sort of over 500, 600 years have sort of oppressed at different points. But then there's a significant population in Ukraine in this analogy that want to be Russian. Yes, there is. There is. Yeah, in the Dombas region. Right. There's lots of Russian speakers.

There's Ukrainian. There's Ukrainian. There's Russian. Yeah. They tried to destroy the Ukrainian identity with a famine. Bringing up Stalin. That's true. Yeah. And try to get rid of the Ukrainian identity with the Ukrainian language and make them more Russian speakers Right, yeah And there's been at many different points Things like that throughout its history Okay

And it's just flaring up again Yeah, flaring up. This isn't flaring up at the moment No, I don't think No, but we'll see They're going through their troubles Yeah The troubles

The troubles So Henry the 8th, big fat, greedy fucker He's so greedy He wants eight wives And Ireland And Ireland He wants to fuck Ireland

Now I'm just I don't actually know But it feels like, so a big thing with Henry VIII is that he got blue-bald because it was kind of a period of relative, like, peace for England and all of his heroes, all the people he learnt about, like Henry V, had gone to France and been absolute alpha chads. Right. And it feels like Henry VIII wanted that more than anything and then ended up just being like a guy who wore nice clothes and ate loads of food and had fuck loads of women. But he wanted to be a military hero. But there was no reason to invade France in the small period is on the throne. So do you think part of it is him getting his rocks off with, you know, taking his shit out on the little guy because he, you know, feels like he doesn't feel like he can punch the big boy. To be honest, it's like going home and hit your wife because you're getting shouted out by your boss at work. Right, I see. Or your football team loses.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So he declares himself, king of Ireland in 1541. There's then the nine years war, which is... We never learn about this for sure. Gay Lake Irish Lords Hugh O'Neill That's Hugh O'Neill Who'd started the O'Neill's bar chain?

Yes, he started O'Neill's bar chain So he's mainly profiteering off Chinese tourists in Leicester Square currently But he stops that to fight the English In the 16th century The English win that And then a lot of stuff happens with James I'm first

This is his sort of third or fourth appearance On this podcast The famously gay In the Words of Downs Snow Gay, Anti-Dabank Astrologist witch head Yeah, anti-tobacco That was this big

He was one of the first people To come out against tobacco He wrote a long treatise About why it's bad for your health And he was gay He was very progressive man In some ways But he was burning witches at the state

Well again You know If that comes around again Then it's progressive The pendulum is swinging The pendulum is always swinging You know we've got me too Now it's swinging back

To burning women Burning women yeah I guess those are the two ends Are they Of the women pendulum there's the hashtag me too fire whoever you want because they look to you weird to bracket to

I'm going to set you on fire for making me horny that's the experience of women throughout history so James I first begins the plantation well actually it begins the plantation of Ulster I believe plantations as a concept begin earlier and they also happen all over islands in Virginia

well the strategy so this is the beginning of the kind of is the new world around in the 16th century? Yes, it's just because Columbus is 495 or 92. 492, right? And it's kind of, this is 1609. So this is the age of discovery is well underway. So actually, Queen Mary the first begins plantations in 50s.

Now, when I think plantation, you obviously think brutal, but you do think tropical or the deep south. There's a level of exoticism to a plantation in my mind. Big white house Those those weeping willow White being the Say word Big white house For the white man

You know But there's a level of exoticism there Plantations in Ulster I do not feel Will give There's not as much Kind of like Hard work I think

Colourful imagery Not to say that the plantations Barbados wasn't hard work It was a DOS For the slaves But I guess I guess the slaves Were at least in a nice

Nice climate You know When you're off, which is about an hour a week. Maybe an hour a week. You can enjoy the sunset. I saw a motivational TikTok genuine from one of the psychopaths, you know,

who brought up the slaves worked 18 hours a day, so so can you. Wow. So it was kind of using, it was using the productivity of slavery to try and be like, to try and make that like a hustle grind set sort of inspirational thing. But that is the next stage of that movement.

Yeah, it is. People like, you know, well, technically, if you're worked to death, you still work load. So if you could choose to do that and beat the competition, right? Free your mind and work like a slave. Stop being a sheeple and become a slave by your own. Hand yourself in to a master

who will work you to death. Yeah, that's the closing of that surface, that horseshoe. So, but yeah, you're right. I mean, Ulster plantations, you maybe get a bit about what life was like on Alster Plantation. Rubbish. I mean, it just sounds.

It sounds grim, but there were plantations all over Ireland, and they didn't, they all pretty much failed. What are they plantation? I don't actually know. I want to say potatoes, that may be insensitive. That might be insensitive. But also, what's a woke answer? Bananas.

Yeah, no, sure. In Northern Ireland, they were planting bananas. You know, all those Irish bananas we eat. You know, the big banana famine. We've run out of bananas. There's no bananas anymore. What were we planting specifically? I think actually it was anything.

I think plantation is code for... Miscellaneous. Miscellaneous farming. No, it's... Pineapples. The point is it's about... Oats. The main crops are grown were oats and livestock raised with cattle and cheese.

Well, do you know what it is actually? Right. So the Irish at this point are mainly farming cattle. Famously Irish beef, still today. Brilliant. One of the best beefs. Irish, they do four or five things unbelievably well. Anything dairy related.

So cream, milk, butter. I mean, I actually think that's what... Beef, Guinness, Bayleys. I think that's what Henry the 8th is going, is the butter. He's a butter boy. Look at him. He's a big butter boy.

He goes, this butter shit. What butter tourism? Do you think he's there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a butter tourist, like a sex tourist. He's going to Ireland and licking... He's like, we've got to get that in this country. So I think he basically, I think in his head, he's a butter king.

Yes, Henry the 8th. See, that was very good producing from Utah. That's the quickest you've been on something. Henry the 8th ate butter, often for breakfast with eggs. Butter was a common ingredient in chuded dishes. I think he also ate Congareil and poor poise I mean the guys You run out of things to do when you're the king

Because he's not allowed to invade France So he's like, yeah I guess I'll try a fucking What's that? I'll eat that then Can I eat? Is that a fucky thing or an eaty thing? That's how he divided everything He divided everything to fucky things and eating things Can I eat that?

All right, I'm going to fuck it then So Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day The Creator and host of How to Fail It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right. And what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better? Each week, my guests share three failures, sparking intimate, thought-provoking and funny conversations. You'll hear from a diverse range of voices sharing what they've learned

through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day in Sony Music Entertainment Original podcast. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. He ate butter. He loves butter. He goes to Ireland because The butter, the butter is, the mecca of butter. Godly, the mecca of butter. Have you seen the clip of the two Irish women, there's an Irish podcast, and they're talking about butter, and one of them is maybe like a vegan or lactose intolerant, and the way the other two are judging her is so phenomenal.

She's like, oh no, I don't really do that. And they're like, what are they like, oh, my God, you're killing yourself, killing a liver little, liver little. I'm getting eight paths of carrigal, and they're just like, but it's almost like they're talking about smoothies, but they're talking about butter. Is butter back in? Because there was maybe a period where... Butter never left me.

No, no. It never left me, but I mean, in the general trend... I think Lard's coming back. I think it should come back, as we talked about. We're kind of like, we're quite RFK Jr. When it comes to this... I'm pro-Lardt. It's the seed oils that are killing people.

It's fine if you use, you know, lard butter. That's how we're all healthy because we grew up eating large butter. Butters, I mean, oh, yeah, Irish... No, but you're not... there was a trend I feel when I was growing up where butter is cholesterol going to kill you and now it's the eating raw beef and

fats are good for you right we're now going to the Alford Chad's liver king we've had yeah we've had woke dietary things where it's mung beans and all that sort of stuff and now we're pretending that raw beef and butter is the healthiest way to eat for a little bit

you know what the woke war on food has been decisively lost yes because the cold war The cold wall The Berlin wall is falling down The Berlin wall of tofu

is crumbled Yeah, because veganism has actually peaked Now there's an article about that every year in the times Because that's what

they want to hear their readers But it has peaked In the telegraph They haven't even heard of veganism yet No They're like, what?

Huh? Is that just people who eat cheese? But there is actually The supermarket shelves they're now filling the they had whenever the peak was they had shelves full of

all the vegan replacement products and now they're just it's a money pit so they're just getting rid of them and putting beef back in it's basically it's the long term effects of people who've been doing veganism for a while

there's some health effects when you just eat yeah and also if I was vegan the stuff I'd end up eating would just be worse for me because I'd just be eating chips and pizza because everything goes like

you're not doing it properly because doing it properly is lame it's so ugh and gross doing it properly he's eating fucking the hair that comes off beans and shit yeah I went for a New Year's meal

once a vegans it was like a spread there was so much food yeah and everything was horrendous it was beige it was bean loaf

yeah and then it was like yeah oh do you want another slice of bean loaf you know lonely people but my god the words bean and loaf should not go together

unless it's loaf bean which is actually a slur I'm such a meat eater yeah what is a slough bean is a slur for a vegan, I think. I'm such a meat eater. It's probably a bit of a problem where I have to have meal.

Meat, basically two out of three meals a day. I have to have. But I'd agree with that. I do do the odd meat free Monday, meatfree Monday.com. Part of me, so, yeah, a lot of people talk about this. Yeah, I don't see any point. We're at fish.

Yeah, meat or fish. Yeah, yeah. So I main, like, it has to, but otherwise. So I was at this vegan thing and I was like, I haven't had a meal without meat, a dinner without meat for like four months. So I was getting the shakes. Yeah, yeah.

In bean loaf. The pudding was made, was like, I think cake made with vegan mayonnaise. Mayonnaise and a cake? Vegan mayonnaise. Manez and a cake?

Yeah. Because they can't use butter, so they're just fucking chucking vegan mayonnaise. But what's mayonnaise is eggs? So what's a vegan egg? Tofu flaxseed meal, chia seeds,

aqua fable, which is the liquid from chickpeas. Sorry, so that little cummy stuff that chickpeas come in, you're making an egg out of that. Yeah. It's not right.

But do you not feel that the swing back? Added flavouring like black salt to mimic the eggy taste. So Ireland's having a real comeback culturally. You know, they're arguably almost like South Korea in the sense that... Yeah, they're soft power. They're soft power. There's film.

Paul Mesca, all these, you know, get lots of stuff. But it's also coming in as now all the kind of bro podcasts are talking about the health foods now is raw beef, butter, eggs. It feels like there's some... There's an Irish hands going in that. They're a cholesterol economy, Ireland. So they're really... I don't know. It feels like an Irishman has set this all up

where we're now pretending that to eat steak and eggs for every meal is the healthiest way to... So Ireland is essentially before... Well, listen, the English are involved in Ireland from the 12th century, but before this point, the Irish were mainly doing beef and butter, and then when the English come in with the plantations,

they say that beef and butter, they're like the woke guys. They're like, oh, that's not very sophisticated. The most sophisticated thing to do is grow crops is because at this point this is like the Puritans with the fringe blue hairs like, you're eating beef on you? Yeah.

So they're like plants and mung beans and shit and that's, I think I think the plantations are for farming crap rabbit food. Oh yes, they set up woke food plantations all over Ireland but most of them fail and it's about they're then making Scots mainly in Ulster landlords and dispossessing

the Irish people of their Scots have a big part in this I don't want that to be forgotten The plantation of Ulster which becomes the most successful plantation Ulster for those you don't know is the county in the north And it's a very short distance between

Ulster and Scotland So I imagine the route You can get people over Well I think that must be the accent right That must be the Northern Irish accent Must be because it comes from Scotland Yeah Comes from Scotland

It's Brendan Rogers Right Brendan Rodgers Right Brendan Rogers Is the journey between Scotland And Northern Irish Yeah yeah Right. So that plantation of Arsenal begins under James I first, 609, and he basically sends Scots Presbyterians who, as we know, the hardest fuckers on this earth, what I'm to send granite, diamond cut fuckers. No one's fucking with them. He sends them over to Ulster to make this new breed of Super Scott the Northern Irish. Because they arguably, if you're trying to find someone tougher the Presbyterian Scots, you go fucking Protestant Northern Irish.

And both of those are the only people I would trust in a war against White Souther. Africans who are Dutch Protestants essentially the hardest settler colonialist white ones are some of the fucking yeah apart from Australia yeah because they're prisoners yes they broke the law yeah these guys make the law yeah and then Canada and New Zealand have been cut out cut cuts they're watching the whole world get fucked from their backyards they're not doing anything so based the plantations begin 60 and 09 busing hard Hard-nosed, Scots fuckers, over to Ulster. The Ulster plantation is...

Red-nosed. The only red-nosed, red-faced. To put that drink, dine! The whole Presbyterian thing is that, like, drinking's a sin, right? Yes. And they're going into Ireland, which is drinking water is lame.

Yes, yeah, yeah. So it's like a real culture clash. Yeah. I mean, culture clash is one way to describe the troubles. Yeah, yeah. Skiw with. So there's obviously loads of rebellions from this point onwards, but essentially

Northern Ireland is kind of you could say it's inevitable when the success of that plantation happens. Right.

So there's a rebellion against the prostit Yeah, it's like a successful Star Wars was a hit they're going to make another one. Yeah. And they're going to make it a lot of them

which is the troubles. Yeah. It was a hit. What are you going to do? Yeah. Of course we're going to do another one. Yeah. And then we're going to leave it alone for it

and then we're going to make a bunch more. Yeah, of course. It's test cricket. It's test cricket. cricket of sci-fi. It's Star Wars. So the rebellion in 1641, which leads to Protestants massacring the Catholics as reprisals. Well, so the Irish Catholics massacred the Protestants and then the reprisals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tit for tat. The whole history of Ireland, North Ireland, it's Tickey Taka. Right. Is Chavi Nesta. You kill me. You kill me. Triangles.

Triangles, yeah. Shrinking the pitch. High lines. Tit for tucker. Tick for tucker. There's then the William of Orange now He's a big deal He's a really big deal To these guys I don't really know him We'll do here Seems to be the most Protestant man

Ever I think orange is the most Protestant colour You can be Yes Is that because you've gone orange From shouting I think so Yeah

I put that dying That's why Yeah It's the jaundice So he's the most orange person Yeah Ever he defeats So this is the glorious revolution

Right In England Yeah You know about that So this is They get a Dutch guy over right basically one of the the english king once again is getting too much fun uh he's if everyone thinks he's a he's a homosexual probably yeah yeah uh and then they basically ship in a dutch king

who's married to uh who technically next in line to the road throne the queen yeah who would be the queen so his wife mary yeah and get them in together um and he comes with loads of troops but there's no um no one stands up for him so it's like a glorious revolution because no one dies, he just walks straight. Oh, that's glorious? Yeah. Right, okay. So people say that this country hasn't been conquered since 1066,

but a Dutchman to just walk in and become king. We let the door unlock for the Dutch. So he comes in solidifying the Protestant dominance in Austria and Ireland. I guess, sorry, I guess William Orange is like final nail in the coffin, Protestantism. It's his state. There's a, yeah, but it's still, it's still a minority on the island. Yeah. Because you're talking about the descendants.

of like tens of thousands of Scottish settlers. Yes. So in a country of like five million, there's like one million. Right. Prots, right? For the next couple hundred years, the Catholics are sort of discriminated against in Ireland, penal laws.

They, you know, they're not, they can't hold political office. I mean, yeah, it's apartheid, right? It's apartheid, right on white part of white. White on white apartheid,

which is like, which is not, which is not win-win. You would think that as white people, that would be like, well, great, fine, apartheid. fine, but no, there is Prott's apartheid, Catholic apartheid

which is Irish Catholics maybe some of the biggest fumblers of white privilege in human history. Definitely. And I think that's why... They're the whitest people and they've managed to, they managed to fumble all of it until about 30 years ago. Well, that's what's amazing about, like, you've got British straight white man is in the popular imagination

is demonised as the embodiment of privilege and yet you've got the whitest people, the Irish, are seen as somehow charming poetic like slayers of privilege they're seen as the des possessed they're like seen as garzans basically yeah in the cultural capital

yeah to me no but be fair islands have a real tough time but they're really enjoying themselves now right oh yeah they're in a great time because now they have all the white privilege yeah right they're not getting stopped

by police in America you know whatever privilege you get the accent's cool they're getting laid very easily mess cows like the sex symbol yeah they're having all that and they're not of the guilt.

No guilt. Not an out. No guilt. Not an ounce for anything. No. Just because they were drunk the whole time when we were doing all that stuff, they now got away with any guilt. I know.

And they're woken up and they've gone, oh, this is brilliant. And we're there going, well, excuse me, what? And now they're getting richer than us as well. Yeah, we looked after you for $5,500 and now we're the bad ones, are we? Don't what's happening? We did. We did. We did look after them, yeah.

Famously. Well, this is where they're looking after them really starts to begin, is the sort of 19th century. There's an act of use. Union. Tough love. Yes. Yeah.

There's an act of, it's adopting a child who doesn't want to be adopted. It's Madonna taking an African kid out of a village and then calling him Blaine or whatever. It's kind of your Woody Allen. Yeah, that's exactly what it is, actually. It's Willie Allen fucking his 19-year-old adopted daughter. Allegedly or definitely, I get confused with those two words. Definitely. Definitely.

Just for the legal, definitely. Just for the legal, definitely. It's really lawyers watching. I meant definitely. Sorry, allegedly. I get confused. We should do an episode of Woody Allen actually Oh, we definitely should do it actually

Woody Allen So the active union in 1801 Creates the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland You then have And listen, all this stuff we could do whole episodes about Yeah And if you're not careful, we will Yes, if you keep subscribing

We will end up really much If you don't behave it If you stop Don't stop behaving yourself We're going to do a whole episode On the 1801 Act of Union Yeah So then listen

We'll just, we'll fast forward The 19th century Yeah Big famine, boo-boo, you got us, sorry. We'll do a famine episode. We'll do a famine series, of course. I'm just trying to get to the... Maybe we do a famine episode.

We get Mike Rice, but we hog time. I think we should be in each one rags. But then we put like a... So you can't speak. So he's just there and we discussed the famine. Because there's a potato in his mouth. Hog time with a potato and string him up. And talk about the family.

I think the optics would be quite bad of that, actually. Do you think? Yeah. Yeah. People watching, going, is this ironic or I don't know what irony is, if this is ironic. This just feels mean. So the famines, the 1840s, there's then a concerted effort to introduce home rule, which is self-government. So it's not even about being independent, it's just self-governing because Britain has taken complete political control of Ireland.

this is a big deal even for Brits actually the home rule question this goes on for 50 years basically and the World War I actually blows us out the water but this was kind of the crisis of the early 1900s in Britain

Home rule was devised loads of politicians it was a big deal that people actually cared about in this country it was the undoing of prime ministers in the way that Brexit was yes but and then but just because World War I was such a big deal the home rule thing kind of gets a bit dwarfed

they signed home rules and this is going to happen happen during the war, but then they went, okay, let's delay it again, because the war's going on. Right. And then the fucking, the fucking Germans sent weapons to the Irish Republicans. So now we're getting into some of the terminology that gets used in the troubles. So we should, the IRA, the Irish Republican. A big part of the whole thing was chip, trying to get weapons onto Ireland, right? Because they don't make it. Ireland are always trying to get weapons in, because if they don't do that, they've just got cows and butter. So there, so the reason

that it's so easy to dominate from the English is that we've got guns and they've got packs of butter. So they are chucking butter at us and we've got muskets for March and 500 years. Get back would you? Have some more of butter! And they're trying to push cows down hills into British forces. Anyway,

home rule is essentially starting to get introduced but the ulster... Are you saying that before the Easter Rising if they hadn't risen, they would have got self-government no no because there's catholic emancipation there's wolf what's his name the tans there's there's all this there's the history all you're black and tans no it's wolf what's his name charlie

there's a guy called 19th century irish phenian there's the phenian rising there's there's a huge history of irish republicanism in the victorian age but i'm just saying that's not this episode we're trying to get to the troubles right so the point is uh that in the late 19th century uh home rule is kind of gathering momentum yes but to the in the ulster plantation the Presbyterian hard-nosed white South Africans running apartheid in the north they're like fuck home rule don't want to give anything

we want to be in we want the entire island as they consistently do around the world fuck home fuck that they want to be there's 15 of us there's 2 million of them but we'll fucking take them they're drunk we're not let's fucking go right

so they want to be unified totally with Britain and there's this guy who's termed the father of Northern Ireland. There's a guy called Edward Carson, who is at this point, he's called Anglo-Irish, because that's what you're called if you...

And like, if you look at like the Oscar Wild story... Yeah, this is what I was going to bring up. Yes. So, Edward Carson is an Anglo-Irishman, which means that... They're often... They learn at Trinity College, Dublin.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like a... Which doesn't let Catholics in at this point. No, I don't think so, yeah. So Edward Carson is a lawyer. He's Anglo-Irish, which means he's... of Irish descent, but living in England.

He's a hot shot lawyer. So he's doing a show's about being mixed race at the Edinburgh Fringe. Yeah, he's winning awards. Talk about Irish prejudice. So he is called the father of Northern Ireland because he's daddy. He holds loads of cabinet roles in Westminster as well

by the end of his life. When you're looking at white guys in this period on Wikipedia, they have lots of letters by their names. Because it's the colonial era. Wikipedia of any white guy. He's PC, ironically. Right. Honourable, the Lord. PC, PC, PC, Ireland, Casey. Oh, yeah. So PCPC cancels it out. So he's very racist.

I'm a big fan of the racial joke. PC, PC, P.C., Baccise, Ireland. Casey, because he was Attorney General for a bit. Anyway, so this guy essentially, I think, founds, or at least is one of the first leaders of the Ulster Unionist party, the UUP, which... Turns into the DUP. Maybe. Sort of. I think so.

But it could also just carry on because there's a real people's front of Judea thing with all this stuff. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, so he's a hot shot lawyer and his biggest case is in Dublin.

He takes Oscar Wilde to court for being gay, which is a crime. He represents the guy. Yes. Which is an episode in itself because that's a hilarious story. It's a very funny story where Oscar Wilde is, like, you know, he's the bell of the ball. He's the bell of the ball. Everyone loves it.

He's Stephen Frye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everyone's like, oh, so he's so, you know. I know it's illegal to be gay, but he's so cute. He's a bit Michael Jackson. Yeah, yeah. Like, the art is so good. Yeah.

Everyone's like, ah. And the importance of being earnest, maybe his biggest play was opening at the time of. Yeah. Yeah. So in the, and that's opening at the time of him getting. Yeah, literally are opened at that time. So Edward Carson is the lawyer and, you know, wild to make him a call. the most furious British

whiskery guy is the guy trying to sue Oscar Wild for fucking his son something like that yeah he's living

he's just like you can't fuck my this is when I will sue you you can't fuck my son yeah yeah

yeah I love that's how homophobic this era is is that if your son was not we got fucked by someone else you would sue

the person who fucked yeah and he's so witty that he runs rings around him but he's just like oh you why I yada

well he does run wins around him But Carson eventually flusters him because he says, did you fuck this rent, boy? And Wilde goes, no, because he was so ugly. I pity it, I wouldn't. And then Carson goes, so the only reason you didn't fuck him is because he was ugly, not because he's a boy.

And Wilde goes, uh, uh, uh, and like he gets him on the ropes. And basically Wilde says, uh, well, maybe I should think I'm trying to be funny. Chill out. It's a joke. Yeah, it's a joke. And basically, I was like, the Alex Jones defense. Yeah. It's a character.

Yeah, yeah. So Alex Jones is very close to RFK Jr. I guess they're quite similar, maybe. But Carson, I think what then happens is that the Wild trial, the Wild is actually suing the other guy for libel. That's what this trial is. And then the libel case is. The gayest man in London is suing someone for libel for calling him gay.

Yes, yeah, which is a very gay thing to do. But these people are back down. He's obviously a good lawyer, but I feel I don't know anything about the law but I feel I could have I could have won that case

Just drop your trousers What Oscar Wilde's gay Yeah look at him Dicks out no bonus The guy with a cravat That guy's gay Dicks out no bonus Okay court's adjourned

He's got a bonus And then he ends up wheeling out About 45 different people That Oscar Wild's fucked Yes And they're going Yeah I've fucked him Yeah I've fucked him

Yeah of course Well that means you're guilty As well That's a separate issue We'll get to that but then Wilde ends up then having another trial and goes to prison convicted of being gay and then I don't think he's ever really the same after that.

What? Wild. When he finds out he's gay. No, I think he knows he's gay. When everyone else does and he goes to prison. Anyway, Carson makes his name as a lawyer in the Wild trial, which... So it's like a sort of O.J.

Yeah, he's the Kardashian. He's in Northern Ireland's... Was it Bob Kardashian? Is that his name? Robert Kardashian. Robert Kardashian. David Trimmer in the... He also, I think, found the Ulster Volunteer Force,

which is the loyalist, i.e. Protestant, i.e. unionist, parameditary force that goes on to do a lot of damage in the actual troubles. But he's, they're planning to do stuff against the British Crown as well. Because they don't want, uh, they don't want home rule and they... Right, and it looks like that's where the tide's turning. That is, that does kind of go. And I think it's 1916 Easter rising in Dublin,

which is led by the IRA. But Home Rule, self-government, is Home Rule Ireland or are Ireland or they just get to run their own country or they're part of British Empire? They're still part of the British Empire. They're still a Commonwealth. Fine, fine, fine, fine.

But they get a parliament in Ireland. Kind of like Canada would be at this time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're so not being independent. And that's the point. Yeah, you're holding them like, you know, no, no, no. And they're like, they're like, right about that. So, blah, blah, blah, Easter Rising.

Again, that's an episode in itself. Irish War of Independence. This is where the IRA and Britain have a bit of a... So this is the point is that Home Rule has been signed in and they've got it, but the Irish want independence. They want to form a republic. 1920, 1921, Northern Ireland becomes a separate entity within the UK with its own parliament, Stormont.

That's Ulster. The county of Ulster then becomes. So six counties in the north of Ireland. Hey, what the buck? Oh, then enshrined as Northern Ireland. And then the Irish Free State is enshrined in 21, which is still what my nan calls it, because she's fucked. And then she also calls South Africa Orange Free State. Right.

She's very old. She's probably calls Zimbabwe, Rhodesia. My granddaughter calls Kenya, Kenya, Kenya. Yeah, that's the real sign. I remember Ivo saying his parents had a holiday in Kenya. God, you can't help yourself, brother. Help yourself. Kenya.

Kenya. So there's then Irish Civil War, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We get to the Second World War, which these guys famously sit out. It's a confusing one because, well, there's the Second World War. Yes. It's a confusing one because the Ireland, the British have been the bad guys forever, right? Yeah. And now they're finally the good guys.

Yeah. And it's a bit confusing for the Irish. But this is why the Irish, like, we know, know nothing about the Second World War. They just ignore it because we're the good guys for once. So they're like, well, no, no, no. And also the whole thing Well, narratively it's confusing My enemy's enemy is my friend

They're like, well, you're like Hitler do you? You're on his side. Yeah? Think about that. Well, because we worked out with Victoria is that because we often make World War II references because we grew up with British dads

Right? So you can't escape World War II references And he knew none of them But the thing you've got to remember is that Vittoria also has a British dad because he's from Northern Ireland That's the problem with this thing is that even though Vittorio is a Catholic

And he probably, we will get into this when he comes here but yeah it's that's the whole mind field of it speaking to Victoria their World War

2 is the troubles so in the way that British dads are obsessed with World War II think if I was fighting World War II I would have been a hero deed day

all that stuff Northern Irish dads it's the troubles yeah it's making up that you did stuff in the troubles that you didn't yeah exactly

all that stuff so we get into blah blah blah whatever we'll deal with it later we get in 1941 and that's it

Republic of Islands officially leaves the Commonwealth. So they're not in the Commonwealth games after this? No, which they're really gutted about. So when they were like, okay, if we go independent, do we not get the Commonwealth games? And we were like, no, and they were like, please, can we work out some kind of deal? Just something so we could please swim against Namibia. The Commonwealth Games is so shit.

Yeah. Like just. Who's watching that? Who's watching that? Yeah. And it's the less powerful Britain gets, the more awkward. it gets. Yeah.

Because what is it? It's Britain. It's the Falkland Islands. It's the Pacific Islands that still think... There's loads of countries, right? In the Commonwealth. In the Commonwealth games. Yeah.

But is it the same people that are in the Commonwealth? Does it correlate to who's in the Commonwealth? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, there's people who will make a political statement or not doing it. Yeah, which is like, mate. Like Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Canada, Australia. It's the Empire. And there's loads of countries in that.

It's the Empire Games. Yeah. but I don't know it's too almost if there was less or more it would be better it's a weird number because it's like

let's all the whole world do it but it's kind of like a quarter of the world doing a world cup of competitions it's weird it's like Eurovision

but it's got Australia and Israel in it you're like what is this like is there any integrity to this or not I like the idea of someone watching

Eurovision where there's a fucking like goth troll scream me into a microphone but it's like he's from Israel this is a competition's a joke This competition's a farce.

Israel's not in Europe. The collapse of Western civilization. Australia in Eurovision. I'm canceling my license fee. So Ireland becomes a republic. There's then a border campaign where the IRA try and end British rule in Northern Ireland. This fails.

About 62 they give up, right? At this point, the IRA is still the official IRA. Still the, they've not split into now that's what I call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't believe it's not the IRA. And all the utterly buttery, all that shit. Dyer, IRA, diet cherry IRA. Yeah, exactly.

IRA zero, which is what they have now. So there's still one IRA at this point. Yeah, right? Now, again, time is flying by, but we'll get to the 60s because that's where essentially in the 60s in Northern Ireland, which is the, now the juicy thing here is that in the Northern Ireland's majority Protestant? Yes, just.

But on the island of Ireland, the Protestants are a minority. Yes. So the whole dynamics is you have a majority, the Catholics in Northern Ireland are a minority within a minority.

Yes. And then the Protestants are a majority. Minority within a majority. But everyone feels on the siege, essentially. Yes. Because... It's a sticky one. It's a sticky wicket.

it. Martin McGuinness has come on to bowl and there's footmarks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And there's also shit all over the stumps because Bobby Sands. Bobby Sands was up to opening,

which he should not be opening because he can't keep his bowels close. It's like Lillica's shot on the pitch. Right. Yeah, Bobby Sands walked so Paula Radcliffe could run. And Paula Radecliffe famously couldn't run because she was shitting a son.

yeah yeah who's your biggest inspiration paula probably bobby sandwich because he just shat and cracked on with it now the thing is if i ever shit on camera shit on stage shit like you know if i'm ever caught shit in myself i'm ever in a situation that linica and radcliffe found themselves you have to make it a protest right don't you because it's so embarrassing shitting yourself the only way out of it are you so i'd have to i'd probably go like free gaza are you saying that Bobby Sands shat himself and then retroactively went

No, no, no, I'm embarrassed for. I'm a, I'm a Republican. That was a, I meant that. He was apolitical. I meant that. I meant that. You got it. Look, look, I'm putting on the walls.

Look, if you shat yourself, you're caught and shitting yourself, what are you then making a... It's a free hair, isn't it? You've already shat yourself. You might as well donate it to a cause of your choosing. Stop wailing in Japan. so hang on

are you saying are you saying are you saying when someone if you shit yourself and then someone calls you out you should the first thing you say

is your only opportunity to name a court you have to think of a cause and that's your one out yeah yeah it'd be about how the post office scandal was dealt with by the British government

is a dirty protest so you did you shoot yourself the Horizon IT scandal is an absolute travest and I will not wipe my ass until it is salt. I will keep shitting myself until it's soft. So yeah, you have to, so you have to all...

And it just keeps out as Uyghur Muslims. I think they're being badly treated. Yeah. And everyone's like, mate, you're running out of causes. You've done three-poos. You've done three poos in your pants. You've not changed your trousers yet. So if you're leaving the house with the dick of tummy, you should also be armed.

You should go on Twitter and see what Pellons can play about. arm yourself with a cause Stop whalers in Japan Stop the Whalers in Japan I did actually shit myself In as an adult In Edinburgh It was late night

I'd just been drinking with Tom Stade Right okay Well say no more Exactly You'd probably put some mad LSD In my drink or something And I was crossing a road And as I was crossing the road

I farted and it was shit and I immediately just turned left and started walking to where my house was because I think that's I think if you ever see someone move like a chess piece in that way where they're walking and they immediately turn it right like a knight in chess

they've just shut themselves yeah because you never the knight doesn't dress yeah you never do that you'd always like go round but it's just a hard term like a sort of the context has changed the situation is very different

you know why you're walking that way I've got clean pants I've got shoes in my pants You can see in the line of deviation on like a map Clean pants, clean pants The circumstance is different You're playing a different game now

If you have Gary and Evelyn Jane McCarriger Looking at the footage of me walking They go you can see Just where the shit hits his pants And he immediately Yeah, it's sort of like holding your run He holds his run

And then he's He goes You see the ball The ball is played The shit hits pants And he's, that's where he covers run So anyway What the fuck were we talking about?

Sorry I think we'd hit the six 60s. So there's growing discrimination against Catholics. So my point is, is that in Northern Ireland, the Protestants have all the positions of power. There's the RUC, which is the Royal Ulster Constabulary, which I think essentially... The Ruck. The Ruck. You have to be... I think it's 80% prop, but essentially no one's rejoining it if they're not prots.

Bad vibes. There's a bit of crossover with loyalist paramilitaries. Yeah. Noddy boys. They're all quite naughty boys, to be honest. This is the real story of the naughty boys. They couldn't help keeping their hands out the cookie job. are these guys. These guys.

These are some wrongans. There's some real wrong ones on all sides. So the RUC are essentially it's, yeah. No, RUC. I can't see anything. The RUC are, yeah, so the Catholics essentially

second-class citizens in Northern Ireland. It's apartheid. But it's so apartheid that they're doing it against white people. That's how fucking apartheid it is. Yeah. Southca, we're looking at this going bloody hell, yeah. You know, you're going for it. Fuck me.

Yeah. I mean... And this is just against the blicks. Yeah. Yeah, because you reckon there was anyone in South Africa? It was like, can we chuck some of the shit whites in there as well? My mate John's got some got no stories. Do you think he could...

Would you take other white when it comes to ethnicity? White brother. White other. Just like a shit hang. Hey, hey, Steve Biko. Could you take Marmate John? This is the annoying white. He's got no chit.

Yeah. Christ. And if you're annoying, Africans, then you must be really fucking annoying. Anyway, so the Catholics are the second class citizens in Northern Ireland. They're like...

There's housing issues which, to play devil's advocate, they're also fucking loads of them because they don't wear condoms. Well, that's why Catholics are going to overtake Protestants pretty soon in Northern Ireland because of the birth rate. Yeah, there's like a sort of birth rate panic because the props are having one kid because they're like, I've got to work.

I don't have one child. Replacement, I'm done. And then it's like a sort of conga line of shagging that's going to go. And part of the reason that the troubles is so entrenched and bad is that when any one person dies, they've got 20 brothers and sisters.

Well, like, Wackamo. Yes. So it's like, you kill my brother and it's like, fucking hell, how many brothers is this guy have? Yeah. It's because they're Catholic,

so there's so many of them. Yeah. You're all related to the blood family. Exactly. You only have to kill three people. You killed my third cousin? Well, that's pushing it a bit,

you're all third cousin. Come on. Because we're Prostens. He's like, I never see my third cousin. I couldn't name my third cousin. Who cares? Because the Catholics like their families and they've got massive families.

You killed my fourth cousin twice removed. I'm going to kill you. It's like, mate, I couldn't. Christ, I didn't even speak to my aunt. You know. So there's housing, there's gerrymandering as well. That sounds like a slur. There's a guy called gerrymandering.

Well, jerrymandering sounds like a slur. Or like, you know, he was just a slur. He was out of gerrymandering. He was caught gerrymandering, yeah. It's a bit like cottaging, isn't it? Well, it is cottaging. It's like you're rogering, rogering Jerry. Jerry monitoring.

It's cotaging, but when you move the borders slightly of the toilet stall. What is actually gerrymandering? What is it? It's where you fuck with election borders to make sure that you're going to win. Oh, I see. Is that genuine? Jerryman. I guess it gets used as a shorthand for other stuff when you're just fiddling around.

Well, you're saying that it's when you go, when you go to gosh someone off in a service station, but you open two stalls. of the toilet, so you move the wall slightly so that someone essentially has to put their cock through a hole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gerrymandering's like glory holing, except you push the stall of the toilet so far one way. You manipulate them into a glory hole. You remove the boundaries

of the cubicles so that someone is shitting in the toilet and you take the separating wall away and then you're a gay guy looking to so you suck off the guy. Anyway, so gerrymandering. Jerrymandering is the head of the IRA. He says, he has a

not had anything to do with it. So in the 60s in Northern Ireland, the Catholics are dispossessed and gerrymandering, housing and jobs, they can't get jobs. And they see what's happening in the US with Martin Luther King. Right. And they essentially start the civil rights or civil rights, as I call it. This is the Northern Irish civil rights movement. Well, I imagine Southern American, black Americans cannot understand this. Yeah. But you're white. What do you guys are old white? How do you? Yeah. How did you end up here? Yeah. Exactly. What did you do?

How the fuck did you fuck up? Yeah. Exactly. What the white as motherfucker I see in my life? And they're like, we were on the plantation as well. And we're like, what the fuck? What? Hark it on a plantation.

And then they're like, well, your music must be good. No. No, it is pretty good. Come on Irish Catholic. Yeah. Go on a did. Lidlidlidlidlidlid. Yeah.

To be fair, I guess Prostin Irish music is real bad. Yeah. No, Irish. Yeah, because they weren't, they didn't be oppressed. Yes, that's true. The cranberries. did you have to let it linger did you have to

I don't know the cranberries you know the cranberries you know the cranberries did you have to did you have to did you have to let it linger the right slaps so

the start of the troubles is 1969 the NIR the NICRA the Northern Irish civil rights activists something that's founded and there is a so where we'll leave the episode

is in 1969 in Derry, which is a heavily Catholic city. Or London Derry, depending on. Well, at this point, yeah, yeah. I don't actually know when it becomes London Derry in the vernacular, but let's say Derry for now. And that's not me pinning my colours to amassed. I've deliberately worn the greyest suit possible to try and not,

you know, if you wear a hint of orange, you're immediately committing. So in Derry, there is a big protest in, I think it's August 69, against the state that Catholics find themselves in. Right. The RUC, which is the Ulster Consambore, which are mainly Protestants

and they've a bit of crossover with loyalist stuff, they come in with batons and they basically start playing whack-a-mole with the Catholics. How many fuckers are there? So many fucking... But also, this is... This is known as the Battle of the Bogside, right?

Because the Bogside... Now, that's their words. The Bogside anywhere in Ireland. To be honest. Or you haven't exactly... narrowed it down, haven't you now? Yeah, the troubles could just be called the battle the bog side. No, the bog side is the heavily Catholic area of dairy because it's near a bog. Well, there's so many bogs on Ireland. And if you go to Ireland, what preserves any of their like

pre-Tudor history, right? Is anything found in a bog, right? That's how anything is, because there's so much bog. Bog bodies is a thing. Bog bodies, bog butter, I think's the thing. Look up bog butter. I'm pretty sure bog butter. Again, that sounds like a slur. This guy's bog buttering. Have you heard of this guy who's going gerrymandering and bog butter? What is bog butter? Bug butter is an ancient waxy substance found buried in peaked bog, particularly in Ireland and Scotland. Bog butter. Is there not a more Irish? Is the two sides of being Irish? You have to take the butter with the bog. Do you know what I mean? There's the good and the bad with Irish. I can't believe it's not bog butter. So, um, the, as a little

as a little side note, a little teaser. I think we'll probably, you know what we'll do is next episode, we'll start with the Battle of the Bogside. Yeah. But this is Martin McGuinness's origin story. Right.

The big, the hard man. So this is just for the credits, this is, yeah, yeah, he enters the scene. It's like, it's like the end of Rogue One when the Up Vader comes in. McGinnis is a young man in Derry

in the Battle of the Bogside. So, Bobby Sands is still shitting in a toilet, but that will change. But at this point, this is for Martin Luther King. He's shitting himself. it's only when the stop clock is right twice a day in the 80s

that he shits himself in prison and he says it's for the Republican movement that everyone's like oh I guess he meant that Bobby Santa's IBS and it's just trying to attach causes to make his shits mean something yeah a fucked bowel is right twice a day anyway

so guys thank in our next episode Victoria Angelone will be here our first guest and we're going to talk about and we're going to tell him about the troubles we're going to tell him and he'll be here as to offer a British perspective and friends now that episode is already on our Patreon yeah I think Victoria's going to stick around and we're going to do a Patreon bonus with him as well brilliant so if you want to sign up you get early access and there's ad free and everything but either way thanks very much

for watching listening and we'll see you next time Thank you.