Fin vs History - Big Botticelli Gyal (with Paddy Young!) | The History of Beauty Standards (Part 1)

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Paddy joins us fresh from the salons as we find out that, in conclusion, there are no stunners.     The History of Beauty Standards (Part One)  This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark. Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh   The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.    For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon   ⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor⁠⁠   Link to our merch here: ⁠fumblerooskiproductions.com/store⁠  00:00 - The Samurai Injury  08:25 - The Ideal Woman   12:12 - I’m Jealous  16:32 - The Bush Is Back   19:28 - Dream Job  23:32 - Fat Guy Drip   26:06 - Softly Serving C*nt  29:36 - There’s no real stunners  34:36 - He’s A Polymath  38:32 - Our First Phrenology   44:36 - We’re Young Boys  48:31 - I Feel Skinny  52:47 - Supersize Vs Super Skinny  54:49 - It Was An Opposite Decade  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Hulu original series Furious is coming to Disney Plus, starring Emmy Rossum. Furious follows FBI agent Alice Black on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer. Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, the line between right and wrong begins to blur. Don't miss the three-episode premiere of the Hulu original series Furious on July 27th, only on Hulu on Disney Plus. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows.

Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. The first ever all-electric 2026 Subaru Trail Seeker is the EV for the Trail Obsessed, with up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all-wheel drive make the 2026 Trail Seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit Subaru.ca.

Viewers, we're podcasting during a heatwave to bring you this urgent message. We are going on a book tour. I've written a book by Finn Taylor historian called The History of Mankind in its entirety, abridged. And that comes out on the 10th September. But we are doing a book tour. I'm going to probe around and sort of to find out more about your ideas. Yeah. Maybe challenge you on some of your preconceived notions.

Who knows? If you buy tickets to these events, you get a copy of the book in that ticket. It's like Happy Meal. It is. Yeah, with a racist toy. But what if I already have a book? You're going to get another book. There are four dates.

Bristol, London, Liverpool and Sheffield. Fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, September. After these shows, I will be doing book signings. And the pre-sale for these shows is the 22nd of July and the general sale. It's the 24th at 10 a.m. So the pre-sales on Patreon, obviously. General sale is not. There's not many tickets.

We're only doing four shows. Get a ticket. You get a copy of the book. If you don't get a ticket, buy a copy the book anyway. Come see us on my book tour in September. Well, this week on Finn versus History, it's the history of beauty standards.

Awooga. A wuga. Today, we're talking about female beauty standards. Awoom. From Muntus to Smoke shows. thick-ass powgs to skinny little things. And today, Horatio and I are joined by S&L heartthrob. Yes.

Paddy Young. Yeah. Fellas, thank you so much for having me. You're hearing, well, you explain. You've turned up. No, this is just how people on TV look. Yeah, this is TV's Paddy Young. Tears Paddy Young. Wow.

Yeah. I've got my teeth whiting, that's what it would be. Yeah, exactly. That brings out the colour in your skin. This is quite a funny episode for me because I'm sort of, this is the two spectrums in my life of like my straightest friend and my gayest friend right here

and I'm being pulled constantly each way it's like on my shoulder because I live with Paddy but I work with Finn Should be said we're the same age We don't have to say that I'd say a lot of my career It's based on the fact that people assume that we are nowhere near the same age

I think it was the first writing session Paddy did for Phil's history is when you were trying to you're tossing and telling him out what new pillowcase to buy because you haven't bought a pillowcase for 10 years Ever? Yeah Yeah

Yeah and you got a more I have a mortgage. I have a bunk beds that I don't sleep in it. But then I've always felt I'd rather have my face than your brain. Yeah. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Paddy, you're recently, you've been, I'd say you're in the white heat of the female

gaze currently. Really? On SNL. Do you not think? I think maybe a bit of both. Really? You having panties being thrown at you? Yeah, dirty knickers.

Yeah. But you've been, the DMs you've been getting, you're a little. disappointed with some of the... We're not going there. People have been saying... You've got a lot of old mantas messaging in. It's kind of like disrespectful what some people have been saying. Really? Yeah, so you've just got to

close them off. Can I just say, I love all the messages I get from all the people. That's not true at all. He's going through. It's like, well, obviously you're not you. So there's a lot of... It's horny gay guys mainly. Come up. This is fine. We can talk about this. You've got a lot of horny gay guys throwing ropes have come at you through the DMs. I'm throwing a few back.

Yeah. And then I'm caught in nomadsland, drenched and come. Yeah, I'm seeing the guys that you're getting photos with. What I love about, because we live in East London, and we can't leave the house without a trembling man stopping, taking his hat on. Doffing his cap. Doffing his fedora, yeah.

Someone said you was there. But I like, yeah, because I like, see it. I've got an album on my phone of men taking their photo with the ratio. Yeah, really? Yeah, and you can see them trembling. When it's a live photo, you can see the tremble. You can feel it. Yeah.

Yeah, we had that one recently, which is on like Brick Lane near where he lived, there was three six foot five guys, and it was like we were cornered. It was quite scary. They were standing over, so do you do it? It was quite scary. But you also get a lot of older women, you get a lot of like, there's a lot of milfs come after you, I feel. They want to gobble you up. The first time I ever had it was I did a gig and a woman in her 50s sent me a video after the gig.

and I clicked in it because the thumbnail I could see was just of my poster and then I clicked on it and it panned out and it was her naked on the toilet in the comedy club she got naked

fully naked and was she pissing or just sat on the toilet no she wouldn't even sat she was like stood at the toilet but women are getting a lot more sexually aggressive post me too have you noticed this because I genuinely think

being up at the fringe with people like Paddy and Mike. So there's now like a lot of male comedian heartthrobs. The way that women act is completely unchecked

and outrageous. It is. Because men have been outrageous for years but there's been a reckoning and now there's been a little, men have pulled back a little bit

into that vacuum. There's always been the threat of being jailed for sexual assault. Yeah. Where is those statistics for women? Yeah, it's absolute. The way that's, I think I lived through it

vicariously through my friends. We've been, yeah, are you getting up an edit of me? It's crazy. Are you getting up a thirsty edit of me? What are you? Yeah, to be fair. Your tan and then your military guard.

I knew I shouldn't have got the looks out. They're too powerful. They're too powerful. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's coming for you. You don't go out enough to get harassed, I feel. A lot of people have been saying to me this. Really?

Yeah. Wow. Nearly 5,000 likes. That's not bad. Oh, there you go. Are you getting horny DMs? Not really. Not getting dirty knickers in your DMs.

But it should be said that, Paddy, obviously, people listen to this will, they won't have had anything so far that they can relate to, but you recently injured yourself with an actual genuine samurai sword. Yeah, they'll go, what's your DM? So before we start talking about how horny he makes women,

guys calm down. He has a genuine samurai sword, samurai sword injury from a real katana. Yeah, real katana. Not a 3D printed one. An imported one. An imported one. It took nine months to arrive.

Yeah. That's how important it was. And how many seconds are taken to cut your finger open? Yeah, I want to say some of between, yeah, less than nine seconds. Yeah. And also, it sounds like, oh there's going to be a story here.

Yeah. And when people know you're a comedian, I think you'll have some great stuff about it. It's a real conversation ender. Yeah. Well, basically, yeah, Sam Campbell was over enough. You guys were doing a sort of alternative comedy show.

So there's lots of props. Set a bit, kind of real. Yeah, just you know, there's just a lot of, you know what Cambo's like. There's a lot of props.

There's a lot of shit going around. Yeah. A lot of gimmicks. Yeah. You guys hate that. Yeah. And then Patty, he's obsessed with making the wrong decision

at every turn in his life. He ordered an Uber, wasn't ready, the Uber arrived immediately. You panicked so much. You know what happens? You order in it since there'll be in about six minutes. As you click it arrives. But you're as cool as a cucumber.

As soon as the Uber came, you panic, screamed. So, oh no, it's here. Picked up the sword. It fell out. Picked up a bag of stuff. Yeah. And it sliced down his finger. And then we've still got like a samurai film blood splatter across the wall.

Awesome. And then you were kind of chill about it immediately because you didn't realize how bad it was, but it was so, so bad. went into shock. And then Paddy has, Paddy's a weak man in general. So he has like a severe fear of hospitals and needles.

And so you've had to go to the hospital about five times. And out of that five times, how many times have you fainted? Well, five. Yeah, four or five. Yeah, four or five. Wow. You should have seen it.

Because he sat here and you don't even remember this because you fainted. But then as soon as you actually got a look at it, he went completely gray and he went like this. It was like a boss fight when you got like one thing. then like curled up in my chest like a little baby bird wasn't really feigning

no oh I'm feeling in his lap now he's fainted at a drawing of a needle so even just he just saw a drawing of a needle I'm completely cungered it what about the needle what's going on to live with you all the time we've got this hit podcast yeah we'll get you on one day

we'll get you on one day waits until I'm on a hit TV show comes on and goes so you got like ugly women messaging you and let's talk about your deepest darkest straight off the bat. I've been absolutely cuddled. I thought there was going to be like pages and pages of research with this.

We're cutting straight to this. Well, let's get into female beauty standards. That's why we've got you on. Yeah, yeah. I mean, what would be interesting to discover, I think, is how much beauty... We hear so much about whether beauty standards are, like, confected by the media

and whether people only fuck what they, you know, what the culture tells them to. Or is it like innate? Or is it innate? Or how does history affect what people find attractive? I mean, you have a type, very... much so it's well documented it's it's tough Scottish women yes yeah really yes so who would like a celebrity crush be Lorraine Kelly yeah Laura Coonsberg yeah that we're

talking these are intelligent fucking bullbraith although I must say I watched the news the other day and Fiona Bruce is starting to wear um on your patience no no just she's you know she's been at the top of the game for so long now and I feel like we need a new one so let's get into prehistoric beauty ideals because at some point it 30,000 someone made a statue called the Venus of Willendorf. And we're looking at it now. There's no arms. There's no feet.

There's a sort of minimal features. Really, it's all about the hips, the big thighs, the belly, and the huge saggy tits. Because that's a fertile woman. Right. So that's what... But it's interesting that nugget porn sort of predates a lot of beauty standards. Nugget porn is the oldest form.

Dream woman. She's got no face. She can't talk back and she can't run away. Yeah, exactly. It's just got enormous breasts. So this is 30,000 years ago, beauty standards. This is what the kind of ideal of the female form was. But this is what the whole body positivity movement, which we'll get onto.

They're always saying, like, we've lost our way and that our natural, what we actually like is big fat, slobby. So prehistoric ideals focused on this word stedipagia, is that what it's called? which is a big sort of fat bunder and thighs and it's all the fat basically accumulating around the lower half. I guess early prehistoric kind of beauty standards is all about survival and practicality, right? You don't have enough to really,

it's not that pornographic at this point. No, it's a very practical beauty standard. But then we get into ancient Egypt and suddenly things had flipped. Right. Because the beginning of civilization, right? So you've finally, you've chilled out for a second. It's not all about survival.

You can, you know. Egypt went the other way. Thin limbs, very lean, no boobs. Yes. But big bottom. No, no, no, no. No, no, no bottom. No, please.

No, please. Please say there's a big bottom thing. There's no boobs or bums in Egypt. Did you know that the reason why we like the bottoms is because they look like boobs apparently? No, it's not true. It's the other way around. That's not true. Really?

I think so. No, it's because it implies being. hip. Yeah, it's like cleavage. Cleavage on the bum. I think you're bisexual and you get it, whenever you look, you see bums. Well, it's an interesting point that someone raised is that

fundamentally men also have arses. So the straighter thing is to like breasts. But my bum is not, it's not like, I don't like my bum. So you're a straight man. Some men also have breast though. Back in your prime, could you get titty fucked? Yeah, 100%.

100%. 100%. And actually, one of my, one of my dreams, I was thinking about this, One of my dreams would be to have cum gutters but man tits. I've never seen that on a man. No.

To be like have abs. That's like the 30,000-year-old male beauty stuff. It's to have abs cum gutters but juicy tits. Right. There must be a Renaissance era painting of Jesus with both. I think in Thailand they've got some of that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

We'll get to that anyway. It should be said in the next episode. I'd want to shave the hair from the cleavage. But I said, that's, my God. Yeah. There is a point where it's actually. quite nice. If it goes far enough.

Those are phenomenal mantis. Must be said. So in ancient Egypt, hair is seen as a sign of uncleanliness. Okay, so they're actually,

women are getting, they're using flint scrapers to get all the hair off. So actually, the bear fanny begins here. In ancient Egypt. What was surprisingly

about the Egyptian stuff is it's very similar to today. It's not that different. They're kind of clean scraped. I mean, I guess they don't have the bundas and stuff, but it's quite two thousands, right?

Kate Moss, heroin cheek. Yes, it is. Thin arms, clean. And they would use chemical pasts, boiled bird bones. You got her. You got it to get rid of lots of makeup, obviously. But also, there was quite an androgynus time,

as we'll see. We're going to do male beauty standards next episode. It's quite bowie-esque. It is quite bo-e-esque time. And didn't they have dog heads as well? That was one of their gods, had a dog head. Yeah.

So that's pretty unrealistic beauty standards. Yes, it is. That's true. To have a head of a dog, but a body of a, of Kate Moss. Listeners, viewers, how many times? How many times have we had to tell you?

Get on the Surf Shark train now before it's too late. Quick, use it. What is it? Say it with me. It's a VPN. A VATTC network. A viral. Pido, node.

Yeah. It's a security tool that helps protect your privacy. They have developed an AI email scam tracker. This is huge news for anyone with a stupid girlfriend. Yes. Okay. Girlfriends don't know when they're being scammed. Hello.

Where? Yeah, all of my money? Okay, then. Idiot. Men listen to this show. Men don't get scammed. Never. Because we're clever and we understand technology.

Women, obviously, I've only had technology for, I think, a few years. Common knowledge. You need to protect your girlfriend from herself. Sign up to Surfshark and get their AI email scam tracker that will help users identify the emails. that are bad for you. Imagine you're in your command center and you get an email saying Warhammer Convention, Earl's Court.

Brilliant. I'll see you there. Wrong. Use this Surfshark AI email scam tracker. It can identify which emails are actually from your bank. This is not all scams. This is specific scams. This is scanning emails.

So go to surfshark.com slash FVH. Use code FVH to get four extra months of this stuff. Don't let these online threats catch you or your thick girlfriend off guard. Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account. Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest.

Conditions apply. Visit scotiabank.com slash h-I-SA to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair.

With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. But in ancient Greece, women were seen as a disfigured version of men. Which is kind of coming more into the realms of this podcast. I'm on board, man. I understand.

It's almost like women's body was irrelevant because it was not capable of feet throwing ropes, throwing discuses, wrestling. You know, I'd say that it went male. beauty standards, boy beauty standards, women. That was the ranking system in ancient grace. Boy would be top, right? There's nothing more beautiful than a young boy. No, as we keep saying, as Tom Holland would say,

Tom Holland would say that it's partly because of how rare this moment is. It's the golden hour. The fact it ends means it's beautiful. Is that what he says? He does. In a book. What Tom Holland says is he caveats it once, says this is what Romans think and then goes on a 15-page diatribe about how beautiful young boys are,

but never caveats it again. At one point, it's like, Tom, it feels like you're stopped talking about the crime. There's quotes for a sentence and then he just goes with it. It just goes with it. But, you know, pages are stuck together. It's because we die, it means we love. If we didn't die, we wouldn't love and we wouldn't grieve. The romantic paed for.

Because a boy grows up, you know, he's even more attractive. Yeah. Well, were girls above women? Or they just all they were just they were just seen as one bracket But I mean what I like about this period Would it be like an old beetle You don't even think about them being old and young Yeah what is irrelevant

There is something to because I think the chudas were a bit Similar to this as well where male beauty Overtook female beauty which is quite rare in beauty standards Very rare where like we become it's like the in the animal kingdom peacocks right The male peacocks far more beautiful than female peaker Even lions right and then I don't know Wouldn't maybe I kind of feel jealous sometimes with a beautiful woman Do you ever find that?

Yeah Like there's moments where it's not even that I've attracted to them. I'm more like there's something I would like to be that beautiful. But you shop more than women do. Yeah. I've never met anyone. The way that Arasio shops is like a sexist depiction of a woman in like an early 2000s movie. Like I'll come home with a jumper and he'll go, where's that?

He'll look at the bag that I got it from. And then the next day they'll come in like this. And they'll have three paper bags on either arm like that. And he's bought eight jumpers. Yeah. Bad influence on each other. There's not a real man in the house. house. I'll tell you what. If there's a light bulb

goes out, that's not getting fixed. No. No, no. Don't you sleep in a four post of bed? We do. Yeah, I'm at the foot of it. Miaoing, curled up. No, genuinely you had to get Paddy out of our bed because BB lets him up on the bed like a dog. And it's like we had to have boundaries. But what annoys me is sometimes it will be bedtime, meaning like that's it, you know, go to sleep. And then I can hear them talking. We're the same age.

Yeah, I know, but he gets so sad at bedtime. He tells himself with bedtime. I can hear them talking in their room. I go, well, he comes in if he hears it. It's like I'm still trying to live a lot. I've got to get up to do what. I've got, you know, my partner. I'll tell you what, you get embarrassed with me coming here. First time I came here, I feel like I expect.

He does pretend to be far more straight around you. I'll say that. And I'll tell you this, he told me that you guys went up. Where did you guys go together, Berlin? Yeah. He told me that he brought a Nintendo Switch to play on the plane and he hid it from you. Yeah, I do remember.

I do remember seeing out the corner of my eye. You hid it in a history book, said that Dan would notice. I've got, you know, I contain multitudes and I like compartmentalise in my life and I like the standards. The guys who can't closet, it says like, I can't, politicians

compartmental guys. I contain multitudes guys just because they're going to do. I'm married and then separately I have a young boy tied up in a wardrobe. I think the first time you met Paddy is when I got Paddy into Wright for Finn versus Internet. And I remember just immediately, it was me, Vittorian Finn, which is quite a straight

trio in many ways. There's not a lot of, it's not very touchy feeling. We turn up on time, we do a job. And then you came in and you started bouncing on my cot. It was like so much. It was crazy. And I completely went red. You went bright red.

Because I sat on your lap and gave you an Eskimo kiss. Anyway, so the Greek world, it's the women are kind of an irrelevance. Because they're not men. But a respectable woman stayed indoors and had white skin. Pale was beautiful because it meant you weren't in the fields working. Now, ancient Rome, we know that bushes are back in ancient Rome. Okay, so it's 70s. It's the 70s in ancient Rome.

So hairy families are back. And why doing that is culturally, what do you think that's responding to? I guess, is it a... Ruggedness, they respect because it's such a like an active culture. It's not about... It's not... It's a very... Romans are straight, Greeks are gay. But I think there's less vanity in Rome than there is in Greece and ancient Egypt.

Yeah, because it's all about action, right? where you see the hairer you are, the smellier you are, because... It's a great surface area for body odor. I've covered this many times in my writings. Why the Koreans are one of the... They're uncensored. They're uncented. They're like oven cleaner.

They genetically freaks because they do not produce body odor. There's a joke on Korean TV when they say, he has to use deodorant. That scene is like, this is a stinkiest cunt alive because no one used deodorant. Is it true that we smell of milk to some of those countries? In Japan, they move away from white people on the train because we smell. But I think they move away from anyone who's not. And that's fair enough.

We move away from the smell scale. But we smell to ourselves. Yeah, but we don't move away from Japanese people, to be fair. I move towards them. I want to have what he's having. He smells delicious. So, yeah, Romans would, they believe donkey's milk would eliminate facial wrinkles. And so Nero's second wife would bathe in donkey milk daily

and had hundreds of lactating donkeys to supply the body. bath milk. Think how much her buff water sold for? Yeah. Yeah. This is,

yeah, this is pretty Sydney-Sweeney, I guess. So Romans, yeah, the bush is back I think because

it's more rugged. It's more rugged. It's, it's vain to try and get rid of the hair. Yes.

It's a bit more Clarkson, Roman. I'd hate to see it. If Clarkson was women, I'd hate to see this push. Yeah, I've seen his teeth.

Well, it looked like the back in your car. Yeah, be awful. Fucking receipts, minist, Lollipops

Cheerios Faggins A playmobile truck But then we get into The Dark Ages And it really is the Dark Ages For beauty

Because at this point It's very Christian And so vanity is a sin And so It becomes sort of a competition To look as fucking ugly As possible Because it becomes virtuous

To be ugly Race to the gutter Yeah So what God has made Cannot be improved So called So, that's tricky. Thinness was not ideal.

Again, it goes back to kind of fertility. I mean, the whole thing with beauty is kind of a pendulum, right? It's back and forth. Yeah. So it's ugly and fit. Between ugly and fit, between fat and thin. And what you find is that as we progress through time, that pendulum just gets faster as it swings.

Yeah, because we've done it in like 15 years. Where are we now? We're now back to fit. Are we? Yeah. Yeah. So when were we in the fuddling? It was fat for 10 years.

All the kind of pre-COVIDs or body. positivity. Yeah. It was like it was hot to be ugly. It was fashionable to shield. Yeah. Yes. Poly positivity until they discover a Zen pic

and then that goes out the window because there's a magic drug and it's brilliant actually. No, being big is beautiful. It's as beautiful as skinny. Oh, can I be skinny? Well, I'll do that. Obviously, obviously I'll do that. Yeah.

Yeah. Perfect. So, um, uh, anyway, in the medieval time, okay, uh, you basically had to look as ugly as possible. Or that was more for men, really. For women, it was like just neutral. and for women they wanted a really, really, really small mouth, tiny hands and huge foreheads. Yes, the hairlines.

The hairlines need to be big. They're like accountant hairlines. Yeah, I find this the toughest. I mean, you see a woman like that now. She's been left behind. I mean, that's kind of beautiful, though. Do you think? Yeah.

I mean, defend, an England center back, though, like defending a corner. That's fantastic for that. Yeah, Harry McGuire would have thrived as a medieval woman. So yeah, they pluck their hairlines to try and create as high a hairline as possible. It's sort of the opposite of today. Yeah, so it's the opposite of Turkey. It's the opposite of Turkey.

Yeah. They're trying to get the hairline as high as possible to show how big that, so people were maybe lusting after foreheads. Builders would be like, oh, hey? When they see a woman with a big foreheads. And she'd be like, my eyes are down here, mate. You know what I mean?

Like the huge, but I find it very tough to get, you know, their heads all look like fucking cycling helmets. Yeah. They don't want to give them a nice kiss that on the forehead when you see it. Yeah. Got a lot to do. though. Yeah.

More room to play. Yeah. I've done that once after a one night stand. I didn't. It felt awkward and I didn't know that. So I just kissed her on the forehead like she was a blind child. So do you think kissing your forehead can ever be more intimate than on the mouth if you like, it's like a kind of lying kingy sort of. I'm not sure that was a question.

Yeah. I don't really know. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be like a kind of orphan. It can be, it can mean more than anything. It doesn't have to feel like you're kissing an orphan. It can be like. What's the question?

Kiss them on the head and mean it. and it can actually mean more than the mouth. But now we need to get into the Islamic. But you'd probably prefer them to have a big back of the head if you like the booty. Yeah. What is your type, Charlie? It's not really...

It's more a tone. Yeah, it's more a tone, isn't it? Tonal. It's an old mother, really. Yeah. It's like a tough, chewed up old matron. She's live, but she's strong and she can see right through me. You have quite a medieval type, I'd say through me.

Big saggy tits. In fact, you have quite a prehistoric type, I think. It's like postmenopausal. Yeah. I want her to wear the trousers. Meanwhile, while in the Western Europe, Christian world, it was all about being stinky and horrible. In the Islamic Golden Age, it was all about eyes, dark eyes,

but there was this section. But they weren't wearing burqas, right, at this point? No. I don't know when that comes in. But long hair is valued highly, but there is a significant proportion of the Islamic world in northwest Africa doing a practice called Le Bleu. Le Bleu.

Lebleu. Leblur. Leblur is the Islamic practice of force-feeding girls from five years old because obesity is regarded as highly desirable. This is something I can really get behind it. Foie Gramead. That's good. That's great stuff.

This is the Berber people who I believe are in sort of Morocco, Mauritania. Yeah, like Atlas Mountain sort of. And they are, what is the quantity? So they have these older women, these fatteners. who would physically punish girls who don't eat as instructed. Dream job. So a six-year-old could be forced to drink

20 litres of camel's milk and eat two kilos of pounded millet mixed with two cups of butter every day. I mean, this is probably as far from any beauty standard we can conceive of as these women right here. This is as opposed, as if as MPEC hadn't come in, this is where we would be now.

Right. Where poorly positivity would have just kept going to the point where now you had to force feed. This is what they serve in cafes in the north. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the big plates. Yeah.

It's called the Leblur, yeah. I mean, one thing we've talked about a lot is fat guy drip. Yes, you've talked about this a lot, yeah. Is that like... Careful. You're speaking to one. You're speaking to a former... You're speaking to a cream brandich driver over here.

Did you have drip when you were? Oh, yeah. Well, no, to be fair, I think this fat guy didn't have drip, but the point still stands. The exception proves the rule. Yeah, which is that there's a type of fat guy. I don't know how you'd categorize them, but they're...

Fat. They're enormous, but they're in mac. They're often immaculately dressed. They've got the car heart. Everything's clean and crisp and it sort of looks. It looks good on them because it's so boxy. And they're often of like big glasses as well. Smell gray.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess you have to take care of. There's so much in the way that they're basically going, forget that I'm click. Yeah. Yeah. I see I thought you meant a fat guy drip, which was Hawaiian shirts, billabong shorts.

Oh, that was you? Beds. Meadows and mustard at all times. Literal drip. Yeah. Constantly out of the corners of my mouth. Yeah. That's, um...

Oh, yeah. That's me, that's me as a... A 45-year-old man who's been an accountant's entire life who's finally gone on pointless and been eliminated to the first round. First round exit. Thanks so much for coming.

Goodbye! I've got to go back to fucking scumthal. You didn't get the £750 prize money. Didn't get the prize money, which I would have just eaten anyway. Internal monologue, one day I'll have a fucking huge podcast. Anyway, yes, these girls would have to eat nearly 21,000 calories a day.

I mean, this is extraordinary. Which is more than sumos. Yeah. Now, so this is probably the, that's probably the weirdest

abnormally in female beauty standards, right? Well, you also have East Asia. Because this is like suffragettes, but there is different to suffragettes. Superjets.

Yeah. Horses are throwing themselves in front of them. Breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. Then you get into East Asia with the whole foot binding thing,

which is mental. Mental. Yeah. So it's basically making claws. You like, hoofs. Yeah. You fold the toes

apart of the big toe underneath the foot and then make a little Charlie's not like this he's rattling around in his cage what is the point of it

is insecure about their knob get them smaller right now yeah that's is it because when you know and you keep sucking what's up oh my god

I'm coming oh my god I'm going Yeah. So small lotus feet are eroticised and associated with elite femininity. But why is that? Do we know culturally why that would come about? I guess they had a little waddle, didn't they? Yeah.

And they'd make where the dresses would be wrapped so tightly that they couldn't really move. Yes, that's true. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. So I guess that it's... And physical impairment is perceived as a sign of virtue. Because I feel like the East Asian feet. What do you mean? Hand binding.

The physical impairment was... Yeah. They should bind their... They're next to their feet. Yeah. It's kind of bent over. But I guess the East Asia beauty standard of the woman

is very delicate in the East. They don't like big fucking matriots over there. No. They're like tough chewed up broads. I don't know what country's from. It says that men are like gold and women are like silk. So like if you...

I thought you say women like silver. I like that. No, so like if you drop a brick of gold in a puddle, dirty puddle, you can wash it off, but the silk is ruined forever. Wow. I like that.

I agree with that completely. I don't agree with that at all I don't know why you brought that up So Then we get into Now this is my Now we're talking for me The Renaissance

And I mean this both for my What I find attractive And what how I How I exude How I serve cunt Yes As it were Which is

Hot Are you serving cunt hot I'm serving it soft Soft serve Soft serve male Tunk Soft the flake in it Ah yeah

Maybe We're, some of it's like, you know, I held on to a lot of Renaissance beauty standards in my younger years. Your Botticelli angel. Yes. A big Botticelli. I'm the big Botticea. Botteceau. In the Renaissance, obviously, they try and make beauty scientific.

Right. Because they're discovering, rediscovering the classical ideals. We're coming out of the dark ages. Yes. And what's there. We've rediscovered all these Roman standards, these Greek texts. We've seen the statues. And we're also learning how to draw again.

So we can now, we now it all becomes about. facial symmetry and proportions. So this is getting clavicular sort of the beginning of the kind of yeah.

Well sort of is the beginning of all that but then then there's the Baroque period which is slightly afterwards where it all becomes about

soft, abundant physical flesh fleshiness. Abundance. Abundance. What do you look for in a woman? Abundance of flesh.

So it's back to woke again I guess. Yeah well again this is sort of again it's a pendulum is starting to swing you know we'd all like to live

in a time where everyone is deliberately a mantra and it's a virtue to be a mantra. That's not now. No. You'd be annoying if you came over if you're an East Asian woman and you travel, your feet are literally, you can't walk because your feet have been strapped together and then everyone's just

like, you're like, fucking free. Then you go to Africa and someone's eating 21,000 calories and you're like, well, could be it in the middle somewhere. Imagine doing both. You're a big, that big, one of the toilet. It wouldn't it? Because you couldn't burn off the calories. Yeah. Ruben is, Rubens is the great artist.

Can we get some picture of Rubens' artwork up? The Ruben-esque woman is a thing, right? And the Rubin-esque man. Let's not forget the Ruben-esque man of the early 2000s. It's like the male porn star. He's neglected. He is, the stud pig. We zoom in on some women there.

We do Rubin-esque women. So what's that soft? Soft. But then again, it's a wealthier time. Yeah. You know, it's a time where religion isn't dominating. or it starts, it's grip, it's post-Reformation, isn't it?

Right. So there's been a big, the uncoupling of the church's power. Okay, so the idea that you can be, I think beauty is celebrated again. Right. Beauty is not really factored in the dark ages. No.

It's been about, are you as ugly and smelly as possible to show how virtues are. Well, like that, she's holding a tit, like a cigarette. That's quite nice. But again, this is all about the mother. So we're Stunners getting,

they were like, they were getting no attention in the medieval time. Yeah, they'd be booed. and hist at. Yeah. But there's no real stunners. Well, I mean,

you had that bit for a little bit about, you know, the problem with Instagram now as you open it and you'll see like generational stunners on your discovery. Before you've got out of bed.

Yeah, before you've seen more stunners than your ancestors did in their entire life. Yeah. Because back in the day, you would only see one stunner maybe traveling

through your village at high pace in a carriage. And you think about it for the rest of your life because everyone in your village was hideous. But now you shouldn't be seeing that many beautiful women.

It's so bad for your head. But then is the beauty standard hideous. Of course it's that because it can't be beautiful because no one's got that option. Right. You've only, your, your face routine is mud. Yeah.

That's like your rubber. And, you know, you're, the only people in your village you can fuck are your cousins. Yes. I don't think you really have a choice about having a beauty. He goes, I hate it when they're clean. Yeah. Listen, love, you're not listening to me.

I hate that. Yeah. But then surely amongst their cousins, there will be a fittest cousin. Yes. Look, we can all say we've got a fittest cousin. Yeah, everyone's thinking about them right now. Speaking, Charlie's woke it up.

I'm not speaking out of turn to say, you know, we've all got one cousin where we're like, well, if I had to. I went out with my cousin, AJ. Okay, well, none of us have done that for a small amount of time. Okay, so you went out with your relationship with your cousin for? Couple months. Okay, that's pretty. Was that your first relationship?

Yeah. How'd you guys meet? Through my dad and my uncle. Yeah. Was that a honeymoon period? I think at mine at Christmas in like 2004. 2004. Well, it's such a boxing day tsunami.

Yeah. It was that. It was around then. A pathetic fantasy. From the end of your relationship. The Enlightenment, they try and start saying at this point, they're like, oh, nature's beautiful. So try and look fit without trying. I've had this fantasy about, you'll probably get this, Charlie.

Yeah. Imagine it's like a cobra. Like, and she's wrapped around me. And then she's got really skinny waist and then big, enormous brown tits. But she's got a cobra's head. And any time I try and grab them, she's going like, huff. And like wraps a little bit tighter around my tummy. Right.

That's, I guess, my dream woman. Yeah, that's his type. Fusion. Yeah. Do you get that? Yeah, I do get that. There's something powerful about it. You're quite avant garb with your taste because you also, you sometimes like a big boxy.

Yes, I go in there with a protractor. Yeah. I'm not you guys with scold. Well, well, listen, this gets me on to my most exciting part of beauty standards, which is friend of the pod, Francis Gawson. Oh, God, yeah. So now we're into the Victorian period. They're all musk of his day.

Right. I'm with searing clarity. Now, the Victorian period is quite a hard. snap back from the Baroque period. Again, the pendulum swings back. Because this is all about femininity is unexpressive, passive, like corsets, made out a whalebone that would basically be so tight that women would faint

and they used to think they were fainting because of their vaj. They called it the vapors and say, oh, your womb's clapped, so you fainted. Right. So it was all about big waste, and this is where the hourglass figure comes in. But there's also, so women took up as little space as possible. Yeah, just please.

So also, it's a burden that they faintly at your vaj. we're going to have to get a tighter corsets all that. But they also would take these their eyedrops called nightshade or belladonna drops, which would make your eyes look all kind of like dreamy and like wayfish. But the side effects were you'd basically

die, I think. Wasn't it, die? You'd get fucking like diarrhea. I mean, here you go, side effects. Extreme dryness, blurred vision, constipation, high body temperature, dizziness, confusion, agitation and hallucination. Yeah, I guess it's less dough-eyed if you're just, you're cracking pipes in the toilet. Yeah.

You're eyes a little croquettish. She's so dreamy. Oh, oh, God. Oh, God, no. Not again. Not again. Oh, my little doe-eyed in the toilet. Dream Victorian woman, dead.

Just a dead. Woman that's dying. She's so puckish, my girl. Oh, fuck. Oh! Because basically, they would, they were romanticised. consumption or TB. So you just had to sort of be wasting away.

Yeah. To be so small. Well, this is probably, yeah. Herron Sheek has got nothing on this. They were actually drugging women. But this is where my favorite friend of the pod comes in. Francis Galton. Do you want to explain Francis Galton?

Francis Galton is Charles Darwin's cousin, who read Charles Darwin's book on the origin of species. Red between the lines. I get what you mean. We need to sterilize the disabled. And Charles Darwin went, I'm talking about finches. He went, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm running with it, okay?

I'm picking up your train of thought. Golton invents eugenics, amongst many other things. Yeah, he's a polymath. Let's not judge a man by his worst idea. He mentioned the dog whistle. Yep, the dog whistle. It's quite funny. You guys love that.

Yeah, yeah. The weather map or meteorology. More the whistle you guys use. Yeah. Yeah. And we know, we just shout, come back. Dog. Dog.

Fenton! That's what we do. Yeah. That's our dog whistle. Fenton! Fenton! But probably in an accent, I haven't seen. Fientine. And there we have it.

And that's what we're waiting for. So, Francis Goulton, right, bear in mind, this is the birth of the hourglass figure. Oh, really? So, Gorton. So he invented that as well? No, no, no, no. So this is what, so this is, I mean, this is insane.

Look at this waist here, there's a woman. Stunning. And she's on the toilet, absolutely. She's locked in. Just to make a look all dreamy. She's got a nice, healthy poo either side of the tummy. Yeah. So the standard is the hourglass figure.

Right. Okay. The wayfish. Now, Galton, scholar that he is, is on a tour of Southern Africa in the 1850s. Uh-oh. Okay. Hey. He's curious.

He's curious. Sure. Okay. A scholar and a racist. He is there to covertly measure the buttocks of the indigenous peoples. Now, the interesting word is covertly. Because he doesn't feel like a very covert man. No, no, let me explain.

Galton goes to what's now Namibia, and he is stunned by the Bundes. Right. Okay, so these are an absolute marvel. Because at this point, you know, what's that word? Stider Javier, whatever it's called, the body fat around the bum and the thighs, that's, he's seen the hourglass figure, right?

He's seen the early Kim Kardashian's. And he's going, we just don't have this, we have to manufacture it artificially with corsets in the UK, you know. And I believe, sorry, this is Galton speaking, Galton would believe that the white race is superior at this point. So he's thinking, well, hang on what's happening here. Why are not a boner? If these guys are worse, why all I can think about? Why am I so horny?

Now, he doesn't understand the indigenous language of what's now Namibia. So what he does is he hides at a distance, and he uses a sextant, right, a naval device to measure the shape of the woman's ass at a distance. At a distance, right? How big are these arses that you can... This is Namibia. It's Bundagrown Zero. Objects may be closer than the apea.

So he uses a sextant to measure the ass, and then when the woman is left, he then walks out with, you know, those... You used to make, like... Yeah. Science class. Yeah, used to measure distance. He then walks and works out

how proportionally how big her ass was based on the distance away that he was. He uses naval instruments. I mean, he's a brilliant man. Undeniable. He's a scientist. You see what porn has taken from us. Men used to go to Africa and measure land to get off.

Yeah. It's all so accessible now. You know, the sextant as a sexual instrument is no longer in our after. The tape measure was like their porn. It just made it just got rid of all the mystery. Yeah, because he just looks that tape measure just remembers how big it is. That was so big compared to that edge behind it. And then his feet go like a Chinese foot band.

So he then, comes home and he makes an attractiveness map of Britain I mean this is a man this is far with the pod he is firing off ideas okay so what he does is he invents an early clicker you know those

counters when you're going into a nightclub he invents a thing where like a tiny nail will go like to a piece of paper but not far enough that it will puncture his leg so he's walking past women on the street in various cities just going either attractive neutral repellent those are his three

categories. Incredible. He then says... He's got three different buttons that he's just... Three different types of hole. Right. Attractive, neutral, repellent.

Damn. Now, do women? Women have three types of holes of all. Yes, exactly. They're all gorgeous. Yeah, the attractive hole and then the repellent one.

Not the mouth. She talks out of that. No! Yeah, the repent ones are mad. Yeah. Anyway. Christ. Christ.

Now, he'd never... It is a great shame that he never publishes this map. But in his diaries, in his autobiography, he only says that London is the most attractive, probably because it had the most rich people in it, and that Aberdeen was the most repellent. Interesting. And that he never really...

Have you been to Aberdeen? I have been to Aberdeen. Could you... I see where Galton's coming from. Only using one kick of that day. Yeah, yeah. So we should... I think in the spirit,

of Galton, the sort of the other grandfather of the pod, we've always been meaning to phrenologise our guests to get a top gear leader board up of skull size, and because we have Anya coming on on the next episode, it's a good chance to just get this going. So we're going to phrenologise

Paddy now. So you've got some calipers in. Now, do you'll explain the basic tenets of phrenology? So for those who've just joined the podcast, phrenology is a 19th century pseudoscience that I completely believe in. It's head size as indicator of intelligence and moral resilience.

So the bigger your heads, the size of your whole head, basically means the bigger, the sort of technically the more clever you are, the more energy you have. It's more complicated than that. It is more complicated. I'm trying to get me this palatable.

But the size of your forehead indicates how... Cerebral, intellectual. Right. Yeah. So a larger forehead means a larger cerebral, intellectual. Academic. Yeah. A larger back of the head

means a more kind of animalistic base sexual um drive lizard brain yeah yeah wow so um so um

so like you're the ultimate combination big back of the head big forehead that means that you're basically bigger it's bigger all over he probably had a big head yeah but you could also have if you have a small head but a massive forehead that means that you're sort of like a nerd you're like a podcast athletic football podcaster yes yeah exactly a coward yeah

you never play football but you can talk about the women's game yeah um so uh now A perfect, an average male forehead is four fingers from... Now, you're two small-headed men, actually. There's two pinballs. This is one of the smallest heads we ever seen. Should we get cracking with? Luckily, you're here, too.

Yeah, yeah. Should we have a look? Do we know what the averages are, like what the average head is meant to be? So we measure the back. Are we measuring like this? 57 inches. Yeah, so... So back to front, we've got seven inches.

That's about average. Now, but just fit by fingers, measure Paddy's forehead. It's small. That's very small forehead. Right. So small forehead, but big head, uh, means that you're,

um, you've got an animal drive, but you're not the, the, the sharpest tool in the chair. Um, okay, so that,

yeah, Paddy, I'm a regret to, regret to say that that means that you are a very energetic, puppyish, animalistic man, but not the greatest thing. Not a scholar.

I mean, you're a hymbo is what you are. Well, that's this, this paid into you. You've got quite well, didn't it? It's exactly what you wanted to hear.

Uh, now, stupid, this is also the birth, birth of beauty cosmetics, consumerism to the point where women would take tapeworms

in pill form to eat all the food they were eating. Lucky tapeworm. Yeah. But does the tapeworm does sound mad, but it does sort of work. It does work. A lot of these mad things

are like, that's completely mental. They're rubbing milk on their face. The side effects are diarrhea, vomiting, eye problems, epilepsy and dementia. Okay, dementia, sure. But I think... No, no, sorry.

Dementia and diarrhea is a brutal combination. What's going on? Why am I here again? You know, that's awful. Awful. But at least you forget to wipe your ass. But then you get yourself and you get over it. They need to stop bring up diarrhea because the women with eating disorders that I know,

and I know are many. You've caused a few. Dariate. Dariate. Turn off. Yeah. Pudding, is it, mum? Obesity.

Morbidly so. Yeah. No, I think most women with former anorexia, bulimia, the kind of the attractive ones, they view diarrhea as a great thing. It's a goal. Is it? Yeah, because in that community,

it's like, yeah, diarrhea is a sign that you know, you're eating badly to the point where you're going to be skinny. Yeah. Like you're shitting that weight off. So I don't think diarrhea, I don't think they give a fuck about diarrhea the way we would,

because it's more like I'm getting snatched out of this. Who gives a fuck? What would your dad think about that? Because your dad's got... My dad has a very strict body ideal. he thinks that women over weight is a moral failing. He likes small breasts and very skinny women. He thinks that's kind of like the ultimate end for women.

And he really, the way he treats my sister, the way he even speaks to my fiancé, he just views it. And I've said, just like, don't order pudding around my father if you're a woman because you're going to trigger him. I think that's fair. No, that's fair though. Because he says when she doesn't order pudding,

he touches on an ear and says, well done. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, that's all right. He's a... That's all right. He's paying for the bill. You know, you could...

Oh, no, if you're paying, it's fine. It's the least you could do. Don't do this around your son. Why? I don't know. One day he might become a phrenologist. The youth 30 years later of men's skulls. That's nice.

Yeah, you're gay. To be fair, that is awesome. No, I'd love, you know, the kind of dad where you get your fucking daughter-in-law in. No pudding for me. Good girl. Good girl. Yeah, 100%.

I mean, that's literally. It's not even a joke. That's awesome. I mean, he's also, he just got married, and then he was shocked about how much his wife ate on the honeymoon. He said he should have put a weight clause into the pre-nut.

And ironically. I mean, he's, it's, yeah, it's right on the line. How much did he say she'd gained? I think he said two, was it two pounds? So it more like two kilos. But yeah, he's watching because she likes chocolate cake and he does not like that about her.

That's his least favorite thing. He really, he just thinks women shouldn't eat puddings, right? Does he eat pudding? He's very, to be fair, he's very strict with his diet. Because the best combination is a man who he's putting down this in. He's already. He's already too. So we need to get into the 20th century now, really, because this is where things move very, very quickly.

In the 50s, okay, this is obviously after the war and this is women as domestic angels. So it's kind of like still got that kind of Victorian passivity, but they invent the bullet bra. So it's pointed to this. This is madmen sort of era. Yeah. Bulletbri, I never really understood that. No, I guess it's because... Why are you making them scary?

No, it's because the war's just happened, maybe. Right. And maybe it's to like make them, I don't know, men think about guns. Guns, I don't know. Well, that's what I mean. Are you looking at that? They're getting fucking out of. And then I'm hearing the shit in the toilet with diarrhea.

Yeah. Cannons are back. Ah! The fucking D-Day beaches again. She's just stood there at the top. I thought the women had different shaped breasts in that time. Yeah. It was a one before.

When I first saw the mind-fire. as well. I thought 50s, just something happened. There's something in the water. I know these gorgeous, pointy, like, Tomb Raider. It's weird that that is a very uniquely 50s thing, and it's never... Stunning. It's never come back, really, has it? Yeah.

I've always wondered why, because it's always amazing that... Don't you think, like, it's, like, dogs, like, have got eight tits? Yeah. Charlie just came. I can't even see him. He's disappeared. Like, they look fucking amazing. A pregnant dog, she's got, like, she's got fat eight tits.

And then like a hot pink fanny just around the corner. Like you wonder why dogs are so happy. Hot pink fanny just around the corner. I'm just amazed that we're not going from, yeah. Because wasn't there a queen that had three breasts? I don't know. I don't know. There wasn't in our research.

So in America it's all about beauty is tied to sort of being domestically perfect. Right. Being a hostess. Yeah. Right. Again, I don't really know what the bullet bras is. Is it to exaggerate the silhouette, maybe? Yeah.

Anyway. Now. It's just manicured. It's manicure. Yeah. It is. Yeah. They look like a Danish chair.

Just fits in. Everything fits just so. Flat back. Flat back tits. Yeah. Now in the 60s in the UK, obviously it's the swinging 60s and there's the whole mod era which it all becomes about childlike eyes. Yeah, so the tits aren't swinging.

The tits are flat. They're saying my tits are down here. Yeah. So this is Twiggy. We're looking at a photo off who's the kind of poster girl for the era. Big eyes, big mascara. Big mascara. so androgynous almost like a young boy

and this is where the Britain's relationship with paedophilia really takes off when the female beauty standard is being as close to a young boy as possible we're about to be into... Who did it free? Who was the people who got freed by the same? Well, Radio 1 DJs. We know exactly who it freed. This is Saville's era. It's the dawn of the 70s.

When women in the 60s are starting to look more like young boys how much blame can we cast as to... It's not for us to say. It's not for women. They just couldn't compete with these... They kept trying to get smaller and diet. But the... You don't understand, Twiggy.

The beauty comes from the fact it ends. It's fleeting. Nothing is more beautiful and fleeting than the beauty of a young boy. His words. So then, now in the 70s, this is where you start, the beginnings of the body positive movement.

I didn't know this. There's a movement called the Fat Underground. All right. Now, that's maybe... I think that's not very 2010. I'm not even joking. That's not 2010's language, is it? is the militancy of the 70s.

Right. This is like black panthers. Fat Panthers. Fat Panthers. Fat panthers. Fat panthers. It's the feast for the older donut. Right.

So you get, and I did not know this to yesterday. You know how there's the NAACP, the national advancement for, well. Say it? Well, hang on. I just realized that's not very politically correct acronym. For what? Isn't it colored people? Is that what the acronym actually stands for?

You said it. That's their acronym. Right. Anyway, they have the NAAFA, which is the National Advancement Association for Advancement of Fat Acceptance. Wow. Like Berkeley and Harvard will have this,

these like radical militant cells. Yeah. With these like four people. This is where Judith Butler is cooking around. It's this beginning of all of this stuff starts in the 80s, all of identity politics. 70s, 80s. You have these militant students.

And so the fact that they're basically, their problem is is that they're sort of angry fat. It's not, it's not easy. Yeah. They're leaving bombs, but they're actually just shitting in the toilet and leaving. That was like their version. They've got to clear the place out. So there's no, like, it's not couch in the language of like positivity or acceptance.

There's an anger to it because it's the 70s. All right. Yes. So it's angry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

They're hungry. So, yeah, it's a 70s. Do you mind? Yeah. Mind of the king is not even cold yet. We've just got water fountains. Yeah. We've just got water fountains.

Yeah. Right. But then, so then in the 80s, it just starts getting all supermodel, Cindy Crawford. As a clapback. John Casablancus. Hey?

John Casablancus. Who's that? He's the dad of the, what's the guy called from the strokes? Yes. He, what's the guy? Julian. Yeah, his dad invented the supermodel.

Really? Yeah. And he was into, what do you call? He called it like the child. If you look him up, he is a certified pedophile. He's got the badge.

Yeah. Fuck. I think he called the, Women Child. His dream woman was called a woman child. So the strokes are a Pido Nepo babies. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. I love the strokes. What are they stroking though?

Well. Child women. Child women, yeah. That's what he calls supermodels. So every sort of 10 years he'd marry like an, you'd think he couldn't get younger. You can't help your type though. No, you can't. No, you can't choose it. So then the 80s, you get the coffee and cigarette diet.

And this is where diet culture really comes in. You know, look as thin as possible. You'd say it sort of peaks in the 90s, 2000. Kate Moss, Heron, chic. This is where celebrities become

public property. And they want to look ill. Yes. There's a grunginess. We're going back to the medieval period where it's almost like

the... Because it's punk. There's a bit of punk inspired there probably. Totally. And fuck you, Mum. Yeah.

Wouldn't it be amazing if Kate Moss now had gone the way Pete Docket he has? That'd be awesome. That'd be awesome. I think he looks unbelievably happy.

Yeah. Every time I see an interview with him, I just think good for you. But he's Baroque. Yeah. He's the really He's Rubin-esque now. Pete Docherty is.

He's soft. He is. Soft bellied. I think he looks healthy than he did. His pomp. Definitely. Musical pomp. Yeah.

Plump. Now. Musical plump. Musical plump. Kate Moss, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. Yeah, iconic. The 2000s, we're getting it. You know, this is, I suppose the 80s is the unshackling of, like, ambition and wealth.

So that's why women start bait supermodels. They start going to look as... Shoulder pads. Yeah. Is this the high. of eating disorders in the mainstream? 90s probably are, you'd say. I think there was a while

I'm feeding women 20,000 calories a day. That's true. When we said the height of it, yeah. Well, I guess that is an eating disorder. I wouldn't really think like that. I wouldn't say they have an eating disorder and say they are being fed.

Do you imagine, you imagine, you imagine. Yeah, I got a disorder eating. My mom forced for 20,000 a car. You wake up 20, you're 25, and you're just like, oh, I don't know, I feel, I feel kind of skinny. Because this is the height of the magazines, right? Yeah.

Feeding these body images. is this is, yeah. So this is what leads to the 2010 is the response to this. 100%. It's a storm cloud brewing. And women are going mad. Brittany shaved their heads.

Yes. That was maybe the kind of, that point when Brittany had the breakdown felt like the beginning of the body positivity movement maybe. Possibly. That was like the kind of the end where we realized that the magazines

and all that shit had got too much, maybe. We said the tabloids would basically circle women's bodies on holiday. Sorry, we used to work super size by super skinny. I mean, this is this 2000s?

Yes. 2000s TV, which is probably the prime of British daytime TV. Yeah. Where there's just no ethics to it whatsoever. No. It's quite Galton-esque, actually. Well, who's the guy called Dr. Christian? Yeah, he is.

Modern-day Galton. The spirit of Galton has lived on. Lives through him, totally. I suicidal. Super Skinny was my favourite of the two shows. It's the closest to phrenology that we've had in the 21st century. I just think there's, you can't get better TV than getting a fat person next to a person.

with an anorexia and comparing what they via a shoot. I mean, it's just it's cinema, it's pure. And also, it's like you can't, when you see the guy, you can't wait to see what he is. Yeah, yeah. Especially, when he says like, the anticipation, the suspense.

When he says, because at the start, he'll be like, so and so says that he, his biggest downfall is jaffer cakes. And all you think is, I can't wait to see him. I can't wait to see the jaffa cakes. Yeah, I just love the comparison. And the kind of, I love the kind of like the clinicalness of the same.

The beans and the tube. But the way they try and make it so scientific. Yeah. But it's just showing a fat guy. It's also, it's, the best, the best parts of this are the reaction shots, the candid reaction shots. Yeah. Where you see the skinny girl look at the fat guy's tube thinking, ugh. And then you see the fat guy thinking, hmm.

Yeah. That looks lovely. I can eat. Yeah. So now we move into the 20s. Sorry, it's kind of like a guy with a sex addiction and then bringing in some porn stars and who having to pretend to not be horny. Yeah. So now we move into the Instagram era where I feel like now it's all gone into like

there's different offshoots and everyone kind of chooses their own. You know, I wouldn't say there's a, would you say there's like an ideal now? Maybe we've got to, right now we've got, it's gone back to, as a response to the 2010s, which we do needs to properly cover. It's been like the snap back to Sydney Sweeney. Yes. Even Sabrina Carpenter to a certain extent. Right wing.

It's right wing. Trump's back on, steaks back on the menu. There's a whole thing where it was all vegan. And now it's like, no, eat. you need the protein, big tits, blonde. Yes, that's brilliant. Yes, you're right. Because in the 2010s, as social media emerges,

and people have power to say, well, hang on, well, hang on about me. Everyone pretended. They didn't find what they thought was attractive, attractors. It was opposite day. It was awesome. It was opposite decades.

Free the nipple when we had to be like, pretending, but we didn't enjoy that. Yeah. The body positive movement, this is the fat, the fat underground had got less angry. It's got overground. They burst over.

They burst overground. There's no room down there. And it was muggy. It was getting pretty muggy down there. And, And so you also have, you have BBL start becoming a thing, plastic surgery, which we talked about on the page. They just couldn't get up for too long.

So then you have the Kardashians, which. The break the internet photo. Yeah, big bum, big booms comes back. But you can trace beauty standards by the Kardashians because they got the best plastic surgeons in the world and they lead what's happening. And they darken their skin because this was hip-hop was the mainstream music. Black culture was most celebrated. and now that Trump's back in power,

now that it's staking America's back on the menu, they've whitened their skin and she's deleted part of her ass. And it's kind of genius of Kardashians because they chose to be a race where no one quite knows what they meant to look like. Yeah. So you never meant to know if they were Armenian.

No one has stereotypes by it. I don't know what they are. Maybe they are. Yeah, but they do look like that. Whatever she never comes with it. We'll maybe that is. They're dock workers. What?

Armenians. You said no one had stereotypes by you. Sorry. I forgot. Good to the world. So you got me with the master. Sorry. Sorry.

Just calm down. It's like being on the chase for a reason. I cared. The body positive movement, I'd say that era is done. It feels like... Lizzo was probably the big star of that. Well, do you know what? Lizzo being on a Zen pic, to me, that's the end of that whole era.

Yeah. And it's that, you know, I think, particularly is we're now living through a very health-conscious time. And I think... We did go a bit mental for 10 years, because there's... people saying trying to justify that being morbid obese wasn't bad for your health. Yeah, that's where I got off the train. I think beauty standards are subjective and you can like, you can like thick ass powags. Yeah. Right. And they shouldn't be as binary as they were, no, no. Yeah. But you can't deny diabetes. Yeah, because there's a lot of people talking about

how fat phobic than NHS was, where people are like, you're going to die, you fat pig. And they're saying you cannot say that. Well, to be fair, those ads were quite blunt. I thought those are quite blunt ads. You're going to die your fat pig. Well, Hang on. I mean, what I always found interesting because I knew a lot of body positive influences of the time, when it was like at the height

they were knocking around London at the time. And it was always interesting that they weren't happy dating other fat people. That was sort of the fundamental difference. Well, there was logistics. I'm pissed off that you don't find me attractive. It's like, but you don't find you guys attractive. Otherwise, you'd be happy fucking each other.

Yeah. It's like magnets. But no, what you want is I'm not going to lose weight, but I want skinny people to fuck me because I only find, I don't buy fat people like that. That's disgusting. You need be positive about my eyes.

Yes, you're right. Yeah. And as his Mpick comes in, it just overnight it feels like the last two years, we've just thrown all that in the bin and everyone's gone, well, I'll take the miracle drug. Do you think you'll end up taking it one day? Me? Yeah. No, absolutely not.

I'm throwing kettlebells in the garden. I've got Tyreek. Yeah. What's Tyreek? Tyreek's my personal trainer. Yeah. Right. The research continues.

Yeah. No, I don't think I'd ever, I don't think I'd take, because the thing, I've got friends who are on it and it's like, it gets rid of food noise and you don't think about food. I get so much pleasure knowing. Who's that your wife eating in the garden? I get so much pleasure knowing there's food noise. I get so much pleasure knowing there's food coming. Yes. Oh, it's coming.

It's coming. You know, I may have lost the weight. I still have a fat brain. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just in control of it. And we talked about the political spectra of tits and ass, right? Yes, we have.

The communist, and we have left the arse era. And it's, you know, it's, fascism was on the rise. Yeah. Yeah. In swastikas. Yes. Yeah. Turn around a bit.

But Sydney Sweeney, in euphoria, I felt that's when tits were back on the menu. I just love you watching that and being, treating it as academic. Interesting. No, no, no, darling, I'm not enjoying them. As a society. Historically, this is very interesting. No, but do you remember it was all about ass for so long

and the actual moment where it's changes where she got her knockers out and everyone's like, we're back. I just remember they are. Something you find an old shirt at the back of here. Why don't, can't believe I was going to throw this out? Because they are brilliant. Yeah, they're phenomenal.

Yes, you're right. You know, you have Ed Miliband as the leader of the Labour Party. Did he bring tits about it? Oh, sorry. I'm saying this is the bum house. You have, I'd say the height, I'd say the height of the bum phase

was when Ed Miller Band went to Russell Brand's house to try and convince Russell Brand why you should vote. I'm like, we are lost in the ass at this point. We need some tits. We're so far up our ass that we've lost sight of what actually is attracted. Russell Brand standing for becoming Christian

but to avoid rape allegations, tit are back. Tits are back, baby. Tits are back. Paddy, thanks so much for coming. fellas thanks for having me we need to plug your new podcast yes

this first Famborowski podcast producer is not this from the people who brought you Finn versus history comes Paddy will help yeah it's what Oprah for blokes Oprah for blokes

agony aren't you send in your problems yeah it's gonna be like an LBC thing for gay guys sort so you can that's out now

anything you're on tour oh yeah I'm on tour the whole of autumn come see me what's the show called it's called will Sirby laughing alone. Yeah. Great.

And then you're also on Saturday night live. So if you want to tune in. Yeah. And then our next episode will be joined by your co-star, Anya Magliano, to go through male beauty standards. And then you're both going to be on our Patreon

when we talk about those of plastic surgery. It's going to be awesome. Awesome. That's already on the Patreon. We have three pounds a month. You can join a community of like-minded Samurai Sword incidents. and if not we'll see you on Thursday for male beauty standards with Anya.

Goodbye from us all. Goodbye.