Fin vs History - Captain Tom, Garden Fox (with Pierre Novellie) | Monty vs Rommel (Part 4/4)

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark.   Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at ⁠https://surfshark.com/fvh⁠  Let's talk about male mental health. Monty & Rommel (Part Four) The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor  00:00 - Thigh Mogging 06:24 - Come On Lads 11:02 - The Mafia Tax 18:42 - Barely Legal Bruce Forsyth 21:28 - The Pretend Army  26:22 - I Bet His Wee Smells  30:14 - Employ Flamethrowers  33:14 - He’s A Hippie  35:26 - Hitler’s Lashed Out  40:50 - More Army Than Nazi 46:51 - Fuck Eisenhower 51:20 - Monty’s Cooking 55:20 - It’s A Party For Us  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to Finn versus history. We're still joined by the Colossus Piano Valley. I meant intellectual and also. You're a big guy. He happens also. Who happens also to be the biggest man I know. We're being thigh-mogged. I'm for once.

I am being thigh-monged. I've got very small thighs, very small knees. Finn's got big ones. But now it's like it shows the whole gamut. And they're behind a paywall. He's put his jeans up so you may get to see them. No, exactly. Subscribers only.

On the Patreon, we'll get his thighs out. Short and boys. Yeah. Do you struggle to find shorts? No, you always wear it shorts, though. Yeah, but those are the so precious shorts that I've discovered. Those are relics almost. I pine for this era we're discussing now of enormous... Big shorts.

Big shorts. Wide, wide shorts. Yeah. Somehow wider on the thigh than in the waist. Yeah. Huge. Yeah, they need to be. My waist is smaller than my thighs. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I go out like PC plot. It's nice.

Now, we're in part for the final part of this. epic Monty and Romwell series. To recap where we left off, the second battle of Elamane has proved as hit. A second battle has hit Elamane. Someone please Photoshop it's Rommel whispering to Hitler.

A second battle of El Alamein is hit. Monty has a, he's been there for three months. Yeah. And he's sorted out. It's pretty good. I didn't quite realize because it's Monty versus Romel, but Monty basically just comes and goes, no, fuck off, right, done.

Yeah. He basically does it in three months. with a lot of these things there's all the glory of beating the Nazis and all these fields of war it does always feel like if you break it down, the Allies are always going to win these things? I don't know if it's different here.

This is the great Al-Murray, Holland revisionism. I don't, and I imagine you're susceptible to because I actually think Pierre would be a great person to have done this podcast. The only issue Pierre has is that he cares too much about getting stuff right. It's a fatal flaw. I've said to you

before, you really care about what actually happened. I do, yeah. Unfortunately. But so do you... It's kind of irrelevant. Which is not really the spirit of this moment. But, I mean, when he came to the office this morning, he genuinely inspected our medals as if they were actual medals.

Yeah, yeah. I needed to know. Yeah, you need to know. I instinctively stood to attention. Now, so are you vulnerable, Pierre, to the, the Hobbes-borm argument that World War II is essentially two factories racing each other? I mean, that's a great question.

Are you vulnerable? Yes. But if you don't use it, then you won't win. Thank you. So it's this whole thing of going, oh, well, actually, they blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but if you can't be bothered to do it, then you'll lose. What do you mean can't be bothered? What is like Vietnam?

The Italians. Well, yeah. Even Vietnam. Yeah. If the Americans could have been, you know, capital B bothered, they'd have just won. But it just would have been horrible. Oh, let's explore that riff before. Yeah.

What do you mean by capital B bothered? Like really, like, we're here for 50 years. Right. Like we're not leaving Vietnam. Like Japan night night bothered or? Yeah. They put more bombs than World War II in the jungle in fucking Laos alone. So then if you had like a cadre of like fanatics as opposed to a conscript army full of people

who've only just found out about weed and shagging. Yeah. It's just like horrible to be there. Great music though. Exactly. But then in the culturally in that 20 years life meant so much more. Way more. It was pressure.

It became precious. Yeah. Oh yeah. For one of the first time in history. Life suddenly meant something. It matters when someone explodes. Yeah, it matters. Yeah.

Before it was... It was irrelevant. Yeah. It was generally, oh, my dad... I've had Zeppelin vinyl. Yeah. My dad exploded. Irrelevant.

Brilliant. Yeah, whatever. Congratulations. Yeah, you're a man now. Yeah. Whereas in Vietnam, I guess. But even by that point, a soldier dying was a tragedy

when it wasn't in World War II. But fundamentally, Monty had more resources, more men, more everything than normal. But Cresi... Romul could have brought powered through though

and could have been the mental glass. Here's a good counterfactual. Could Romul have beaten... Now, I mean, the first battle of Elamane, which as we say is the hipsters choice, my favourite, because that is Romual's chance, right? Because before Monty arrives,

that's the real chance to break through. But would he ever have actually punched through the geography with that supply line? Could he ever actually have pulled it off and gone all the way to Suez Canal? That's what it's all about. Not with that geography.

Unless what the Germans, Greeks go like Palestine down, but then the Palestine, there's a Palestine regiment, but the Brits have, isn't there? Yeah. And then also, sorry, there's also all this fucking French, the Brits fight Vichy French in Syria. Yes. Which I didn't even know about.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We're still at war with France. Yeah. We're at war with France in World War II. I know, is it French people? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck me.

Yeah. They're from the naughty half of France. So it's all de Gaul. He managed to whitewash. a lot of the absolute crazy shit. We've got to get Bé back on to do. We've fucked the French up in World War II. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brilliant. Madagascar. Yeah, I mean, Pierre's an absolute encyclopedia for the less of sports. We fought the French in Madagascar. We did, yeah. Fuck, crazy. I know. Anyway, so, yeah, so is there a world in which Vichy French come down through Syria and

Pinsa the Brit? I think Romel could have got through the geography if he'd had uninterrupted supply lines. If you just give him enough fuel, he'll do it. But he just... But the fuel is going to Barbarossa at this point. the problem is always like the Royal Navy. Whenever anyone tries to do a complicated plan across the

Mediterranean, you just go, yeah, but the Royal Navy the Royal Air Force. Yeah. So no. But also we hadn't, yeah. Well, Malta, Malta. Yeah. And this set the tone for the rest of the war. When did Barbarossa, when does Stalingrad happen? It starts in early 42, is it? And it goes on for nine months, I think. Yes, I think so. So it's happening during this.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're almost holding out for like, well, we probably won't win here because we don't have any petrol. But we hold that long enough to get the Georgian... Because Army Group South, the whole point of Stalingrad is to get fuel for the whole war machine. Everyone's bringing their own gear.

We've all... We've all... Finally out loud. We can say Army Group South out loud. Georgian Oilfield. So, let's keep to the topic, though, because we don't want to... We've got to fucking whine the spit away from your...

So, Monty in three months. months has Sam Alanized Romel fuck off Romel is now in retreat contravening Hitler's orders

and he's got do we do find out how long the supply line is he goes all the way back because well 1000 miles

it's a thousand miles that's funny to answer that would like clear we know we need to know it's really important it's really important

Romwell does rumble does fight a very good rear guard action supposedly but he does it's not like the Italians

it's roughly 1,000 hundred miles from El Alamein back to Tripoli. You and Burkine is fighting a real car action. I'm bravely fighting a rear-girl action in Burkine. No, no, no. What do you mean? This is a chill-out room.

There are four men with their fists up my ass. Holding you up like a trophy. Like I hold it, like we hold you aloft in your wedding day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 966 World Cup win. Genuinely. Probably more holding Finn's arms. So that was Pierre's wedding.

Yeah. Ivo and myself and one of your best men lifted you up as a tradition is. Couldn't believe. I couldn't believe. And you wanted an Iron Man, didn't you? Yes, I did. I got a Hule sponsorship off the basis of the fact that I lifted Pierre.

It was extraordinary. Oh, man. And it could, yeah, it was also not long enough. It couldn't last. Listener, this episode of Finn versus History is brought to you by Surf Shark. What more can we say? about our friends at Surfshark

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We're the hosts of a podcast that tries to tell the truth about the political terms that we use today. None of the tribal bullshit, none of the irrationality, none of the hysteria, just accuracy and laughs as we try to understand the world around us. We dig into history to tell stories

that explain why we are where we are today. And we're very excited that we get to do this on stage as well. And soon we will be doing it at our biggest ever live show. Yeah, on September 1st in the Union Chapel, London, come join us there for a night of laughs, maybe a few tears, and just a general feeling of moral. vindication. There's a link to buy tickets in the show notes and the good news is if you're a

Patreon you get a fairly substantial discount. So if you've been thinking of signing up, now's a good time. We'll see you then. Keep your data safe and we'll see you next time. Goodbye. Anyway, so Operation Torch is, happens days after Monty's victory at Alamein. Yeah. And this is the Americans arriving in North Africa in what would be, I guess, French North Africa. Yes. bloody oh. Which the Germans, now, when, is that Vichy French North Africa? Yes, it is. So have the Germans control there?

Unless it's Casablanca, the film Casablanca would be... That kind of thing. Yeah, right. They actually land non-Vichy French generals secretly. Uh-huh. And kind of go in and try and say, come on, lads. The Americans are about to land. Oh, really?

Come over to the good boys. Be good boys. Yeah. And, um... Well, I don't know. They don't know. Uh, um. Uh, they have some general.

rules who are like, no, that's dishonorable. And they go, okay, well, we're kidnapping you then. Yeah. And there is a bit of fighting. But ultimately, a lot of the French do just go, okay. And is this, is Patton leading Operation Tort at this point? I'm not sure. Maybe.

Patton is in Italy, is he? Patton is the big boy with Sicily. Yes, it would be because this is the ultimate, the long road to Operation Husky. The Yanks have a bad time at Cassarine Pass. Sorry, go on, the Yanks have a bad time. At Cassarine Pass. They haven't fought the modern war before. Romwell fucks them up.

So where's that? Is that Tunisia? I think so. So just to get the joke to be up, Romler has retreated from Egypt, back into Libya, and then Monty is pursuing, which is the great thing that we didn't do

in Compass or Crusader, one of the other earlier operations before Monty arrived, we didn't... Remember, we didn't chase them back across the desert, which allowed them to regroup because we sent stuff to Crete,

maybe. I can't remember why. Anyway, this time, they're not making that mistake again. Monty just goes after them thousands of miles across Libya and it pushes them into what would be Tunisia where the Americans have landed and they're basically pinstering them, which I suppose, you know, you could say that Ed Alameen was pointless

if the Americans were landing and they just would have had to go up to where Romer was. Well, they could look, because the Germans, Romual could have technically broken through Monti's line if there was a collapse from the British and then taking the Swiss-Sour's canal. Yeah, yeah. And then you also have the French-Syrian. Yeah.

So then it would be one front, potentially. The sheer amount of men and equipment they lost is the point, right? Because they could have, if they'd just waited for the Americans to arrive and Rommel had retreated in good order. Yeah. We're talking, I mean, there's what, 300,000 Italians prisoners of war we disposed of. An enormous amount of German prisoners of war. They had to leave so many tanks behind, the ones that we didn't blow up. That could all have just been shipped back to Europe.

Where are these 100,000 horny Italian guys? because that's why I'm worried about. They are horny. We haven't talked about how horny there are. These are horny blokes and they're probably being stuck. It's like a war crime because they don't have escorts.

Charlie, what have you Googled? How loud would it be if 300,000 Italian men cried at the same time? Let's get this to Desabella's? Extreme acoustic level, a high-powered gunshot. Close-range fireworks or a top-fuel dragster

is 300,000 Italian crying men. Surprisingly little in a way. I don't feel like they've got a grip on it. They are Italian. A.O.O. What three Italians crying? like a gunshot. Yeah.

And are they making the same noise, or is it kind of a great? They're throwing themselves on the ground. It's messy. It's messy. But that's the whole point, right? Is attrition? Yes. So if you just wait for the angst to show up and scare everyone, then you're just going,

oh, well, let's just allow the enemy to concentrate themselves, where it's already hard enough to get rid of them. So, yeah, so Romwell fights quite a good rearguard action. Fucks the Americans up at Kasserin Pass. Do you know anything about the legit? what actually happened there? Is this because Americans are new to the war base? Yeah, they didn't quite...

Is this their first action in Europe? In the European theatre, yeah. Yeah, like a baby deer, just fucking... Yeah, well, they got a lot of tanks knocked out because they did just go down a pass and just got anti-tank to fucking bits. Are we in the territory of the first American foreign intervention? It must have been on this line.

Do you know what? We nearly are. Yeah. Not quite Tunisia. It would have been... You said it was in Tunisia, I believe. The shores of Tripoli. Yeah. You're asking about...

Barbri Barberi. Pirates, the first US-Barbary war. What's it? In slavery. Well, actually, it was actually, white slavery. Yeah. Algiers. And so maybe it was, it was about the same.

Yeah. They must have been thinking, yeah, we've been here before. So maybe 130 years after the first American intervention in the Middle East. But there was like quite, there's some mythology about the daring kind of, kind of Delta team style. The Marines, best. Yes. Yeah. So I wonder if that was part of their whole mythology going into North Africa.

Now it says here in the script that Operation Torch renders Monty's victory at El Alamein strategically unnecessary. I refute that entirely. I think I do as well. I think the Americans at this point they only knew, has the Battle of Midway happened?

Yeah. It's almost early than I thought it was later. It's quite early on. Yeah. So all they know is the Pacific Ocean at this point. Yeah. Which they've dominated, to be fair to think. Anyway, so Romual's Axis forces us surrounded so they basically just constantly withdraw and then it gets to the point where they have to surrender

because they cut off Romual's planned route of retreat. So the 8th Army coordinate with the Americans which is quite a funny story of the SAS boys trying to link like the SAS guys are constantly doing these like insane

they're basically hardest I mean they're hardest geysering it in the desert and they're just trying to they're like following the stars and find I'm hopefully I'm going to bump into some Americans. Yeah. Recognising a dune. Yeah. And they stumble up.

There's a story of like they go behind Rommel's lines and they haven't drunk water for four days and they're about, you know, their feet are cut to shit. And it turns out the Senegalese French troops. Right. Because they're involved as well. Yes, yes, yes. Anyway.

So they eventually link up. They squeeze Rommel out and he, there's some minor battles in Tunisia. And then eventually he is recalled to Germany by Hitler in March 43 to save the humiliation of him having to surrender. So this is quite a long period because the second battle of Alame was in November.

Ends in November. So it's a good four or five month retreat. Eventually they're surrounded in Tunisia in May 43 which leads to the widespread surrenders and there's big old victory parties with palm trees and North Africa is liberated from access control in May

43. Huge. Huge. A theatre has closed down. You love theatre. I love theatre closer down. You're like Cromwell.

My favourite part of COVID, theatre is shot. Brilliant. You know, again, baby bathwater. So, attention to, Romwell is taken to Germany. Attention now turns

to Sicily. And the, now this was Churchill's great hope for liberating Europe, wasn't it? It was going through, as you say, the soft underbelly. What was this whole thing

about why I go out of the foot and why not? strike at the knee. Was that whole thing about potentially go landing in the midst of to Rome basically? Yeah,

he didn't do that. So I don't know why that quote. He had lots of ideas. Yes. And always in great sound bites. Yeah. Monty gets tasked with going up the Adriatic coast

of Italy, the eastern side of the heel, which is the gnarly side. Yeah. So Avalanche, which is the western side, that's, Italy's actually quite gnarly fighting.

Yeah. There's no infrastructure. Yeah. And it's all just rock. There is no infrastructure. In the south it is just like the 1300s. Yeah. Yeah.

Because the mafia, like, um, they just have sickles. My mum, I think went to Sicily like a couple months ago and that there's, there's this beautiful old theatre that cannot afford to put any productions on. Because if they put any production on,

they have to pay so many of the mafia off. They can't make any of the money back. So nothing gets made. There's also, there's so many roads that just stop or bridges half built because the amount of corruption, they've been giving enough money to build a bridge, but the amount of, of money being taken by the Mafia means that they can only build half the bridge.

Yeah. Because everyone takes their cut. Yeah. So I imagine it's that sort of stuff. So basically, Monty has quite... Sorry, this is... We did this in the Mafia series.

This is when... Load to the Italian-Americans. Yes. Yeah. Like, they have like a badge on for fucking Lucky Luciano and stuff. They wear like a LL or something. Yeah, yeah. This is...

This is the birth of the Americano. Yeah. We should place this. 43. 43. Do you want to do another place thing? Come on. Yeah, you know the last time.

So you go to any two dates. Operation Huskies when in 40th, July, 43? Is it in summer? I can't remember. Before and after. Okay, this is after Bruce Forsyth's 21st birthday. Christ, he's just pulled that off the dome.

After his 21st birthday. Bruce Forsyth is older than 21, I think. And is he shagging a lot? Sorry, Bruce Forsyth was 21 during Operation Husky? I think so. Christ. He was so old.

Wow. This is tight. This is tight. It's tight. No. How old's Bruce Forsyth in 43? He would be 15. 15.

So it's before, is after his 14th birthday. After his first wank. Before he became legal, before he became legal. Barely legal Bruce Forsy. You don't want that coming up on the old history search.

Barely legal Bruce Forsyce. That's fine. And I guess it's... That's fine. Yeah. And it's so it's before Bruce Forsyth became legal. But it's up.

No, sorry. it's after but it's after has you got oh wait I got one go on Charlie Charlie likes to rhyme them

yeah it's gonna be something fucking stupid right he might be no he's not so why do you be circumcised Bruce Forskin I don't say Bruce Forskine

oh right yeah is Bruce Forside's circumcised there is no public information available well it's after he may have been

circumcised this before he yeah he became legal it's messy it's absolutely it's messy stuff all right

Anyway, barely, we can't know. We can't know. Barely legal Bruce Forsyth is around when Operation Husky starts. Now, Romel gets assigned to try and defend Italy from the incoming invasion. He has differing ideas with Field Marshal King. Yes. Kessler Ring wants to defend the whole of Italy. Rommel, who I think is rarely wrong, decides that there is no point trying to defend.

the south because it's a fucking pudding and who cares. Yes. So let's just pull all our lines above Rome and use the territory of the Alps and the mountainous north to hold them off, which they eventually do, but Hitler doesn't like that and he goes for Kesslering strategy. Which means that the south is

the south of Italy is pretty gnarly fighting. So is Rommel in Italy? Yeah. Romul and Monti are both in Italy. So they do North Africa, Italy and Normandy. They follow each other around. That's why we're doing the series. And then at the end, They came so near to just finally kissing.

Yeah. They never actually met. Would you know when the nearest point they met? So obviously they start in 1940. Geographically, the closest they were must have been Normandy. Yeah. Monty goes up the eastern side,

which is, they have quite a tough time going up the eastern side. This is where Patton's involved, and he does not like General Passon. No. We don't, I mean, basically, Italy becomes a stalemate. When do they get knocked out of the wall?

Is it 43? It's debatable because you've got like, the Republic of, the kingdom of southern Italy, or whatever, the Republic of Southern Italy that the Allies kind of make up. Oh yeah.

Because they want to bring all the Italian POWs and non-aligned Italians into the war. And they do fight. Because they can't afford to keep them prisoners. Because there's some of the private prison of war they got from North Africa. Some of them, yeah. There's half a million men to look after

to babysit. And they would do them, they would do things like send 20,000 of them to just dig an entirely new harbor at Scappa Flo in the Orkney Island. islands. Too busy. In Orkney? My grand would tell me she was from the Orkneys and she would say

like yeah there's all these like Italians like just having to like do this like horrible freezing colds. Like pouring concrete and trying to repair a scape afloat from when the Germans blew it up. Christ. Yeah a lot of labor. But this is this is the it's this division, the southern Italy where the allies

basically are yeah that they don't really want a new country to manage. This is where the mafia becomes so powerful again. It's because they just take over. because the Americans, like, whatever, you run it. And they're willing to say, look, we'll just make people go away. Yeah.

Because we are fine with that and you're not. Totally. Your supplies will be left alone. Yeah. So, Rommel does, I think he does quite a good job in defending the northern or the, the Gothic line. Yeah. The line of mountains just south of Rome, like Montecisina and all that.

Now, Montecisina, we'll get into that. Yeah. Anyway, there's too much of Italy to go through, really. But basically, by early 44, they're, both pulled out of Italy, because it's time for D-Day, for the big push from the Allies to win the war in Europe. Monty is assigned as the command of the 21st Army Group, so he's responsible for controlling two separate field armies.

Now, Pierre, you have a very good grasp of like army terminology and scale. This is tough, though. This is tough. Compared to us and our listeners. And compare and our listeners. who are thick and smelly and sad. Very sad. Very sad.

How big is a field army? It's a full army on its own. And by that it means... Its own detachments of like artillery, infantry, armour, maybe even an attached wing from an air force. So when you talk about like Monty's eighth army, is that a field army? That's a whole army, yes. Yeah, that's a field army.

So he's controlling two entire field armies. Two British armies. Yeah. So there'll be Commonwealth. Commonwealth. So this could be... And then what... Hundreds of thousands of men?

Sorry? Controlling. Is it... Oh, the whole thing. He's the Supreme Commander Europe. And then his Patton doing... Patton is fucked everyone off so much by this point that they make him not do D-Day. And his job is to drive around East Anglia, waving him from the jeeps and stuff as part of the pretend

army that's going to attack Calais. They're making him do the pretending thing with all the inflatable tanks and things. Oh, really? They got so fucking sick of him. Because he went and he bullied that guy in the hospital. Patten showed up and was visiting troops in the hospital and there was a guy there with like terrible shell shock and he just started shouting at him and he started screaming at him and hitting him with sticks and things. Yeah he went mad at him and everyone was like oh Jesus even for you

this is bad so his punishment kind of was to drive around East Anglia saluting rubber tanks that someone had inflated so that's very funny so everyone was like we've seen him patterns here and the Germans were like he is too crazy to be wasted on inflatable tanks it must be real we talked about this in the previous episodes and that Britain at this point is doing so much amdram in the desert. We're using more amdron than any other nation. No one else is doing. Japan's not doing an adram.

The Russians aren't tapping into the amdram. But these are our cultural skills. Of course. Autists. Amdron. Hobbiists. Big shorts. Big shorts.

This is what wins the war. Charting. Chart. Big shorts. Amateur Dramatics. Navy. Yeah. Monty's autism.

I mean, D-Day is probably one of the high points of autistic preparation. the scale of it. I mean, how many... I mean, dad at an airport scaled up... Yeah, to infinity. It's the end point of... Have you got your passports? Yes, I got them.

And by that, have you got your landing craft? Have they got fuel? Have they got maps? Are the maps laminated to protect themselves from the water? You didn't need passports to go into... D-Day? No, let's just check that. There was no border control.

I guess there was a lot. Probably all these days, though. Trying to fucking out. Trying to get into Tenerie, fingerprints. It's like, Christ, please stay. It'd be easier with D-Day. an amphibious landing. Yeah, I prefer it.

The queue probably was worse than fucking being shot out of Mavunker, genuinely. Disgrace. The new EU exit controls were disgrace.

Anyway, so yeah, Monty, they put, because he's so meticulous, they put him in charge of planning. Is it the,

is it all the landing areas? This is two armies, right? Is it an army, is it a field army per beach? Unsure. I know he's the one

who argued for much wider landing areas and like a much bigger, broader front as opposed to like a little or cove or something. Like he was very keen on. Like spreading it. We need to really land. Yeah.

Otherwise they'll just push us into the sea. Yeah. And fascinatingly, it is Rommel, and I didn't know this, who he is tasked with building the defenses for the D-Day landings. Yes, which is kind of a punishment as well, I think, because a lot of the troops as well on D-Day are like,

Ost troops like conscripted random Eastern Europeans and wounded regiments from the Eastern Front and stuff, they kind of don't think it's going to happen. Or if they do, they think, yeah, well, you're just a guy in a bunker. And is this because the, like, the height of the Vermacht is still in Russia? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's elite Panzer Regiments, like, waiting to push into the beaches if they do land, but the actual troops there, like, there's a lot of, like, check. Because by the time they actually get to, like, they cross the Rhine, everyone's a teenager.

and it's terrifying. I read the Ben McIntyre S-A-S-S book. Depends what you're into, I guess. Depends what you're into. There's a barely legal proof of horse out. Yes, I suppose there's an argument

that maybe Monty would have really liked to cross the Rhine. But we'll get to that. But yeah, I mean, it's like a teenage German boy would come out with his hands up and then just basically fucking Jihadim just blow himself up

in front of and just take out of Allied troops. It's pretty gnarly. Rommel Rommel's Asparagus talk us through what that is It's a big stick That you jam into the beach

Yeah And it stops landing craft It was disappointing It was disappointing It sounds pretty exciting I mean I bet it's Pistank Yeah Having been on speed in the desert

For 18 months Like engine oil Yeah yeah But yeah So that kind of iconic Same Private Ryan Opening scene With all the fucking

Rommels Asparagus Yeah Did he come up with that In Or did he just I think they just Get someone It's not

It's not a British I reckon we just shove some scrap metal on the beach, make it annoying. But he also is in charge of the whole bunker, the Atlantic wall. But I don't think he's getting enough money or time or resources to build it properly. Not concrete, you need concrete factories and it's all, it's not getting a rashness.

Could you build a wall on the actual shore? Build a massive wall. That's a bit of a Charlie question that. Can you build a wall on the beach? Just, yeah. I'm just trying to think if they, could have done more. If you have some time to prepare a beach. It'd be interesting to see like the plans for what it should have been like when it was finished because it was horrifying

enough as it was. Well, I did also they didn't know that they were where was the main preparations where were they were they planning for Calais? What was the most defended part of the coast? They were going to the narrowest point right? They were the narrowest point and actually it's not Normandy but there is one mega cannon or a couple that the Nazis built you're going to like this. A Nazi mega cannon. You know because by this point in the war it's the V2 era. The Nazis, let's not forget, have gone to space. Yeah. Wunderwaffe.

Exactly, right? The wonder weapons. So there's a massive mega cannon basically just pointed at London from Calais. Just route one. I just fuck off. I don't think they ever fired it. I watched a video of James Holland. I was having to go through a tough time.

I watched a video of James Holland inside a mega cannon going, wow! Once a video of his wife. Amanda was out. Amanda was out. Please come home. Please. Anyway, so Romwell also oversaw all these minefields because that's what he done in North Africa, but he set all the traps to try and funnel the allies into kill zones.

So I guess is this, you know, with what we know about how Monty beats Romer, how does, how do the allies get through? Like, is it preparation? Yeah. Overwhelming naval bombardment. Just sheer numbers, resources. And now is it true?

We talked about this maybe on another episode that Monty's, was so much into rehearsing it. He rehearsed so many, there's so much training for D-Day, and most of it was in, like, Cornwall in terrible weather. More people died in the training for D-Day on Monteside than in actual D-Day. There was some big disaster.

Off his two armies. There was a, well, what, training? I think loads of people that, like, 2,000 people died in court. Don't it's something crazy. A bunch of ships capsized, the landing craft capsized. It was a big... And it, like, the weather was awful. How many was you died in?

749. Ex-size Tiger. Oh, that's excellent. size tiger. So that's, I mean, Lyme Bay in St. Devon, I know, German torpedo boats

ambushed the convoy and friendly fire since it took place. As a joke? What do you mean as a joke? Why would they do that? We were at war with the Germans. But the Americans are doing it,

aren't they? What? I thought the Americans just shot at the English people. No. Because German torpedo boats ambushed the convoy and then they got confused

and friendly fire. I misunderstood. As a joke. As a joke. As a joke. Guys. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets?

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It's a huge naval bombardment. It's the airborne aspect. Yeah. Surprise. But they plan for 20,000 people to die in D-Day. They just said, look, probably this. And only a quarter of that dead. Really?

Is it only 4,000 allies die? About that, yeah. Wow. It's less than you think more casualties, but I think that's deaths. Yeah. I mean, the worst one was that Omar, Beach, so Bryant-Ryan, is that the most kind of cinema? It's the worst. Because I think a lot

of them are actually fine. Yeah, because... We don't see the other ones. But Omaha Beach is all the video games, everything... There was one of them, maybe it was sword or gold. It was one of the Commonwealth ones where, you know, those like French... Canadians got a bit fucked up, didn't they? The Canadians had a bad time at Juno Beach. That was not nice. They had to really employ

flame throwers to get through that. But there was one... And I'm already apologising while they do it as well. Employ flame throwers. These are the hockey can... These are the hockey canadians. Fucking hoarder! Just going full ice rink. Yeah. There was one where you see photos of it and like there's German machine gun emplacements

and stuff but it's one of those French seaside towns where it's like beach the road all the buildings. Yeah. Like there's no gap at all. And so it's weird. You're like attacking on a beach immediately into a town with all like the signs that you get from video games. It's like whatever Bernard's Cafe or whatever.

Yeah. Casino or something. I think I prefer that. Yeah, I think so rather than the bunker thing. So Rommel is basically is running the defenses, but obviously D-Deday's success for the Allies. They establish a bridgehead, careful, ladies, careful. Now, Rommel, at some point he's in the south of France. This is what maybe is this, is this later in June?

I was in July. So he's in the south of France and he gets critically wounded by, he's, he's, he's, car gets strafed by allied aircraft. The driver dies. He's basically taken out of the war. He'd want to know if you were the pilot that you fucking got a girl. Shut up, Rumble. But he's still alive, right?

But then we get to one of the most devastating moments of the war. Operation Balcary. Traitors. Treachery beyond belief. Judas! Right? A bunch of snakes! You're all Hitler on Facebook live.

You're all snakes. Just posting days like today, you know who your real friends are. Everyone commenting, hope you're okay, babes. July the 20th, 1944. Now, as we mentioned in the first episode, the German military had this sort of Prussian aristocratic heritage. And so a lot of these conservative... conservative

Oros Prussians who were basically saw the oncoming collapse that Germany would have and they were like we've got to

assassinate Hitler and overthrow the Nazis He's a German telegraph readers Yes And they're not Nazis And they never They never liked Hitler No

They called him a bohemian corporal Yeah As in as in from Not a really cool corporal Yeah He's a hippie He's been to India He's got beads for a door

Hitler Adolf Hitler Hitler Adolf Hitler's Lonely Heart That album he released. Yeah, Adolf in a slowly Hartcloth.

He's playing a satire. He's burning incense. He's burning incense. He's burning many things. Holocoma. Thank you, Charlie. Yeah. She's deflated Pierre.

Now, a bunch of officers, what's one of them called? I forgot. Can you remember the name of it? Staufenberg is the main one. Cloud von Stalfenberg. A lot of Vons, because that's the aristocrats. Exactly.

These are all the Prussian guys. So they have this plot to assassinate Hitler. Now, eventually a bomb goes off in his East Prussian headquarters. They've got a comedy exploding briefcase. Basically, yeah. It's Mission Impossible stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think some...

Does the bomb properly go off, though? It does. But someone moved it. Someone moved it, and Hitler is not in the room when it goes off. So it kills someone, doesn't it? It kills one or two people. It deafens and wounds a whole lot of others. But someone moved it behind...

The table they're meeting at is some kind of insubes. sane like Bond villain reinforced steel table. And someone moved it onto the other side of the table from where Hitler was and behind the leg. And is that because they knew what was in it? No, they was just like, oh, there was some tidying. Yeah. It looks like a bombs gone off in here.

Someone left a big clock inside this briefcase. It did make him deaf in one ear, though, partially deaf in one ear. Yeah. You got to tip away Hitler, bit by bit. Like a video game boss. Yeah. You have to wait until he shows, he shows the underbell. with the big Ruby and then you shoot that.

So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Should shout out, Pierre. Pierre does a great gaming podcast called Button Boys. Oh, we should shout out, button boys. Yeah, yeah. If you are a video game enthusiast, which, uh, knowing this audience, you will be. Surely if you love World War II this much as well.

Pierre does a great video game podcast called Button Boys, um, which you have a patron for as well. Yes. Yeah, yeah. We've just interviewed, uh, S&L, UK's George Four Acres about his horrifyingly detailed, interest in Pokemon. I mean, you've no idea. George Four Acres. Really? Oh, man. This is going to set off

a lot of guys. I mean, a lot of guys are tizzing out for this. Yeah, they're rattling their cage now. We've upset them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're latching their teeth. Let's get back to Operation Balcrow to soothe them. Wait, so what's his name, von Stalfenberg? Is von Stalfenberg played by Tom Cruise? I don't mean to aim the gun at you. You're right, yeah. You're right. He's the Tom Cruise Nazi. Right. And Tom Cruise in that film has Tom Cruise's voice, right?

Yes, they've just stuck with their own voice. And an eye patch. And does Von Schaftabberg look anything like Tom Cruise, Charlie? I think pretty close. Okay. Really? Let's, I'm better. I think so.

I wonder maybe that's what you thought when he was about to get shot. Fair enough. How Tom Cruise plays me in the film one day. He's a good looking guy. Yeah, fair play. Hot piece of ass. Now, uh... Too sexy to plan a proper assassination.

Now, Hitler, you know. Von Schafenbimbo. That's his problem. at this point, what's he wearing? Hitler, at this point, is getting quite paranoid, okay? He's got a lot going on. It's something to do with the war and the meth. It's something to go on with the massive bomb.

He's a hippie. He's a hippie. He's a hippie. He's a hippie. He's a bohemian. He's a bohattan. This is Mancenaer hippies. He's a man. He's charlesmaner in his forehead. Yeah, yeah. He's like, in his arm. The government are hiding stuff from us, man.

You had a joke about Manson having a swastikers forehead. I did. I think about that. You know, you used to get stuck with a joke in your head whenever you, whenever I see, Manson with the swastaker on his face. I think of Pierre going, we get it, Charles. You're unreasonable.

You're unreasonable. It's such overkill. Because he did it once he'd been arrested. Yeah. Shipsail, bud. It goes to court. And don't you don't hear the bit, imagine his defense lawyer. So, like, don't give, yeah, you haven't actually done any of the murders yourself.

So this should be an easy. Okay. It walks in with the swastrichter. Right. Okay. Brilliant. It's great. In a jury system, is it?

Yeah. Good one, man. Try not to do any insane. rambling, though. Oh. So, now, Operation Valkyrie causes Hitler to go on a bit of a, you know, it's not his finest moment. Go on.

He acts out. He acts out. He lashes out. He acts rashly. And he starts to chop. But male mental health hadn't really been talked about. As we keep saying. Hitler is the canary in the coal mine of male mental health.

Okay. You know, he's the furor in the bunker. He's the canary. It wasn't normalized men talking about their feelings. No. No. And Hitler, by this point, he doesn't... There's a massive taboo.

He doesn't know who his friends are. Yeah. You know? No. He's like Elvis or... Exactly. Any number of other drug addicted, very powerful men. Exactly.

It's either going to blow your brains out or you're going to eat many burgers and die on the toilet. That's all men have got at this point. At this point. At this point. Those are two exits. Exactly. And there are also my, both my exits as well. Yeah.

You're on the fence, but you've got time. I've got time. I've got a double, am I? Eat so many burgers, that big poo and blah of my brains out. Yeah. The fewer Elvis double.

The honorable, the most honorable suicide there is. The adult Fresley. You're all fucking wearing like a white suit with a swastika. The old, oh man, the Elvis suit with a swastika on it. That's a real...

Sooner brought that up. That's a real guring. I can imagine goring. Oh yeah, that's why he was bringing a one too, yeah, kind of. But if you make it, Vegas Elvis with a swast skirt. It's a banksie.

Do you know I'm going to be wearing an Elvis, I'm going to be wearing like Eddie Murphy get up on my tour. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. I can't wear a soft of scrum. Anyway. You're going to have to talcum up. I like you going like,

because of fucking hell and safe dude. Oh, no. Health and safe dude. Anyway, no. Oh yes, because of the moral thing. Anyway. So Hitler goes mad and he says that he goes on the radio and says,

I'm fine, but I am, he says divine intervention and spared him. And he goes on this brutal purge. Now, Rommel gets implicated in it because, a one of the conspirators gets tortured and under questioning implicates Romel or maybe a couple of them. They had meetings with him.

Yeah. Now, Romo did. What's your thoughts? Was he involved? They would have wanted him to take over because all the other people around Hitler have the same problems that they have with Hitler, which is that they're mad drug addicts. Right.

And also they're not proper German officers. Oh, okay. Romual, Romual's the hero. Rom was more army than he is Nazi. Yeah. Thank you. 80-20. Thank you.

And also that, like, that's... But the army is a Nazi army. That's why they keep giving him shit. Fucking pedant. But they keep giving him shit jobs. That's why they're like, Rommel's such like a heroic figure that Hitler, he's like probably the biggest popular threat.

Yes. So it's like, well, fuck off to Normandy and dig holes, you know. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sending you to the eastern front where you can be even more of a bloody hero. He's like Captain Tom. Yes. In so many ways. Yeah.

He's the original Captain Tom, who was, by the way, fighting in this point. Captain Tom's the garden fox. Yeah. I would admit. admittedly his blitzkrieg was a little slower the Zimmerframe fox Captain Tom

outmaneuvering the lawn trying to outmanuever his own family by going around and round no I tell you who's the real garden fox is his daughter

that's his real garden fox the spa the home spa fox she's the real rival of that family yeah yeah anyway God bless God bless Captain Tom

that's a good phrase he's the rummel of the family would you say. Yeah. Now, evidence gathers that Ronwell is implicated. Yeah.

But it's never really cleared up. But as you say, I guess he's the, he's the kind of Beckham. He's the celebrity of the German war effort. He's way too much of a threat. Yeah.

At some point he'd have had to go. But that means that the way they... Do you think it was... I think at some point he'd have had to go, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the way they get rid of him has to be I seem accidental

because he's so popular. Well, this is it. So what they do is now, Tommore is recovering from being strafed by a fucking airplane. I mean, terrifying. So he is, now he's set to be tried in a people's court, which is basically a sham court where they would have been tried to death. But Hitler realizes that if you're executing your star,

military officer, you can't kill David. You cannot kill David. To make him David Beckham look like he kill himself. It's Epstein stuff, right? Because Epstein was a national hero, and everyone was like, if you kill Epstein, if you're too upset. I'm out. I'm out.

I'm out. It's like, that is. You can't. He's the people's champion. If Obama kills Epstein, I mean, anyway. So, Romel gets offered the option to quietly commit suicide. It's very ancient Rome. It is very ancient, very, it's Nero-esque.

And also his name, Robel, when he was fighting with Italians, they mythologised him as being Romulus, right? Yes. Yes. Because they call him Romolito. Yeah. Like he's a footballer. Yes, right?

How do you think they offer that? I don't think it's really an offer. I think it's, like, is it like? Is it like, is it like? Is it like, innuendos? or is it like... Yeah, is it innuendo? Is there any level of...

Because there's that great... Who's the guy who's the gay guy in the spa and the night of the long knives? Oh, that was... It was room where they're like, you know what to do. And they leave the gun and they leave for 50 minutes they go back in. And he shoves up his ass like,

I'm not gonna kill myself. What are you just left without ass? No. Also, you're giving me a means of defending yourself. Yeah, what the fuck? So then they come in a submachine gun him. Yeah. You went to fucking kill yourself.

It's meant to be cool. It was meant to be like a cool ending. Yeah. You could still be alive. What a way to find out you're not as convincing as you thought you were. You know what to do. He's saying, what do I do? You know what to do.

Not that. Fucking hell, Ernst. Christ. It's just strung up like a hog. I don't know. The gun's still on the table. I don't understand some text. Oh, the gun.

Oh, the gun. Oh, right. He'd not seen Chekhov. No. Chekhov's rope. anyway check off flashlight so

Romel gets told to kill yourself which allows him to maintain a military he gets buried with military

honours and his family won't be persecuted as snakes they say it was a heart attack or something I think so yeah he takes cyanide

pill they said he died like stuma he rolled off a of a jeep that's like a big sausage in his home peacefully surrounded by his family It was a big haggis with a grenade in it

It was very peaceful A peaceful German death A peaceful German death His sausage goes to heart exploded From the heart eating sausages Surrounded by his family It's how he would have wants So he kills

He takes cyanide But he's wearing his Africa Corps jacket And holding his field marshal's bat on Which the thing is I remember from when he did guring Is that the higher up the army you get the gayer of the aesthetic is I'm holding my bat on

while I kill myself it's quite yeah little sticks and things anyway then this the official narrative is that Romual dies from a heart attack

caused by complications from the injuries he sustained in in Normandy yeah Hitler then gives him a state funeral it's a national day of mourning

and it only comes to light after the allies speak to his widow in after the war so it's better it's covered up I mean that's one of my favorite things

about being a death would be to kill my enemies and then celebrate their death as if they've been a hero very much Allah Putin where he killed progrosion, you know, the head of the vase of us. And then he sent

flowers to his funeral. I'm so sorry for your loss. Very Game of Thrones. Yeah, awesome. Sitting at the funeral. He was a great man. So Monty, after the Allies win,

Monty becomes a national hero because I guess, is there another British general who Stephen stands out at all? Not with this level of press, no. You've got like slim in the east with, um, uh, um, Myanmar and stuff, but it's, it's not really making the headlines. I know so little about that, all that stuff.

The chin dits. It's cool stuff, but it's not making headlines. No, but who are the big, British characters? I think it's because this is why, this is why this series is so, uh, absorbing is that it's, it's character driven military history and Monty becomes synonymous with defeating another character. Yes. Who himself was quite his personality. The man behind the supply lines and Jerry Hansen.

Exactly, yeah. But who's the man behind the supply lines? It's easier to picture in your head. Yeah. Yeah. You want to imagine a different guy. So you don't need the characters because you can see through it. But you can read those maps. Exactly. So you don't need it. But it's a way, there's a balance. It's a bridge. It's nice to imagine a guy with some visual branding going

on the other end of the telephone. A guy with big shorts and a fly swatter. Yeah. He won the war. He's annoying the guy with the weird little baseball hat with The goggles on it. The steampunk. Yes. Steampunk.

Yeah, the big shorts beat the steampunk. I understand the war. Rock paper scissors. Big short speech, steampunk. Rommel's clockwork top hat has been knocked off. Good. I fucking hate steampunk. You love Nazis.

I'm interested in Nazis. I find them fascinating. Anyway. But he's also, he's the artist who defeats the Desert Fox. and so and as you say Rommel's the most famous I guess after like

Hitler Gurin Goebbels he's probably the most famous Nazi he's kind of the one but also what does what's Rommel actually achieved so I guess he was

he did great well 1940 yeah yeah but then everything else has been a loss I guess he did the best he could but I don't know what is he he wrote a book

on military tactics but those military tactics were seen to be... They were used in... As the Germans, you know, the German high point, you'd say, is basically up to Monty's arrival, right? It's when Barbarossa kicks off and at the same time,

Romel has pushed the Brits all the way up to basically Alexandria. That's the high point of the whole war for Germany. And that's all been based off Romual's... He's the personification of the tactics. They've used to do that. And they think Barbarossa will be over in two months. And Romual's not involved in Barbarossa. No.

No. in North Africa. And the tactics that Romel was using, a prefigure, the tactics that we're still trying to use now, where the German training was like, you had to be able to do the job of the guy one rank above you and one rank below you. Right.

So there was never a moment where anyone knew, there was never a moment where no one knew how to load a thing or do a thing or, and it was all based on decisions on the ground, use your initiative. Yeah. Which they were doing that first. Yes.

It's lack of resources, really. If you'd given that guy enough fuel. Yeah. I mean, God knows. so it's best of a bad hand right like and where would you say collectively where would you say they're both if you're going to rank World War II commanders

top five if if because we've got who won Salangrad who was the Russian guy is Zhukov I think Jukov I think so

well Jukov was the cavalryman Shut up Charlie Shut up Charlie there are a bunch of generals there I'm going to leave this gun here. You know what to do. Marshal Zhukov, I think, is the main

kind of guy. He's the main Russian. But the Russian army is so big that there's so many marshals in general. It doesn't feel like it's like... So how much strategy is it when you're throwing men at bullets? That's kind of the strategy. It's just throw men. So there's Patton, there's Eisenhower, there's Monty... Well, Eisenhower's like supreme command. So he's really like

looking down from space. He's more doing political. Pen pusher, really. Yeah, fuck Eisenhower. Slim. Fucking pen pusher loser, Eisenhower. Fuck, eye, nerd. Wear your shorts, you fucking pen pusher. Right, chat chattipit, rank the, rank the...

No, come on. We need to get to post-war Monty. George Marshall was quite significant. We need to get to post-war Monty. Right, so Monty becomes, he gets moved up, he's very high up in the army, becomes, what is it, commander the British army of the Rhine,

so I guess the occupying force after the war. And then what's the chief of the impus? Let's just get the chief of the imperial general staff which basically as high as it gets in post world Britain Is it as high as it gets? Because it says one of the most senior, and I'm always like when it's the best one, who's high? Who's the fucking...

It looks like Channel 4. You think you cracked it and there's some twat above them Who goes narrow... If it's not Monty... We need more maths. I don't care if they're guilty of rape. People watch it. Not my words.

Anyway, so Monty becomes this sort of celebrity but as we highlighted in the last episode he lives too long because when there's not a war on he opens his mouth and listen these guys men are not built for peacetime this man as we said was built

he was born in the late 1880s the height of the Victorian era Britain was at his pomp is he a man who's going to fit in with the 60s and the miniskirt my heart breaks the fact they had to live through the 70s to see it's devastating He should have died thinking that it was all to be okay.

In the 50s, it would have died. He's the opposite of Austin Powers. He is the, yes, he's one of Austin Powers's hawkrucks is Bird of Montgomery. Now, in his 2001 biography, the Four Monty, a man named Nigel Hamilton argued that Montgomery was a repressed homosexual. It's the kind of people, Tucker Carlson interviews. And gives them three hours interviews. His evidence for this is that Monty would write a series of love letters to young boys in the 50s,

one of which was Nigel Hamilton, his later biographer, who was so, whether it was platonic or sexual, was they were such friends that Monty gave him all his papers. So that's why he's an official biographer. He was groomed to be his official biographer. Are these love letters as in love letters, or is this, that thing that some people do to sell books where it's like just to kind of the smallest amount of affection

from a repressed Victorian? I don't like a love letter from Monty. I've got a book out. Are you saying that I could, what do I have to, You need to accuse a famous historical figure of homosexuality. But it's a hundred and sixty episodes of that. It's a whole Patreon archive of F's calling everyone a paedophile. But what else do you want?

Then it's done. The book's going to nail it. Fine. Oh, big time. If anything, it's accusing people of not being paedophiles. That's more controversial. More controversial. So now in 1967, Monty's in the House of Lords and he opposes the decriminalization of

homosexuality. A psychological projection. So they think that that stance he took is pure psychological projection. And the evidence for this is that he, after his wife died of an insect bite, he basically just sort of never really hung out with women again. Right. But he dismisses the idea of decriminalised homosexuality by saying that this sort of thing may be tolerated by the French, but we're British, thank God. Cook, kids. I mean,

I love this guy. I think there was no need to do any projection if you were repressed homosexual in British politics in the mid-20th century. You just were a Tory lord. Yeah. There's more than enough to be getting on with. God.

There's a lot of cocks to suck in the toilets of the House of Lords. You go, like inevitably, you're banging like one of the cray twins or something mad. Like, there's a big scandal. M.I.5 covers it up. There's no need to be going around legislating anything.

Yeah. Well, exactly. I think this is too sincere. Yeah. He's sticking his little head up

above the parapet because he actually means this shit. But why ruin the fun? Yeah. Yeah. I prefer it being an elite activity. It is more fun when it's illegal.

Yeah. So Hamilton, who is sort of groomed to do his biography, claims that banning homosexuality was a crutch they would use to sort of, you know, bury his own urges.

Oh, because of course, they were, it was illegal. Yeah. Yeah. Now we get to, Pierre,

I'll let you go off on this. Monty's public endorsement of apartheid. Oh, interesting. 100 points for

pronouncing it correctly. Thank you. Well, it's a party, isn't it? Is it a party? A party? It's a party. It's a party for us.

It's a party for us. Not for you. Not you're not invited. That's the whole, that's why it's called that. In theory, you'll have your own separate but just as good party.

Yeah. But you weren't really. Yeah. But we're going to say that at the start. Now, his infatuation with the South African regime has two major visits. In 62, he visits South Africa and dines with the Prime Minister who basically

was the architect. Which, I know which one of that? 62 would be for vote, I think. Are you a fan of architecture? This kind of architecture. Big fan of apartheid architecture. Apartheid architecture is a beautiful thing. He calls it a quote, excellent thing. He goes on a sort of pro-apartheid press tour, arguing that God never intended the races to mix because if you, quote, shake a black man's hand a negative electrical force resists the contact which you could physically feel. I did not know he said this.

Deep, deep cuts. That is a deep. Wow, I did not know this at all. He thought an electrical, but that's true of all atoms for one thing. I didn't think about this before we fucking did a series wearing berets. That's crazy.

Isn't that crazy? That is mad. Because that's also like, we've covered a lot of great racists in their time. Scholars and racist. Scholars racist. Yeah.

Taking races to new heights we never imagined. This is groundbreaking. Bringing atomic level electrical charges into this. It's like particles. Particle racism. You can't physically shake their hand. That's new.

That is new. Yeah. But this is 60s space age racism. Psychedelic. It is. It's been disconnected from its scientific racial roots. It's one day we'll put a racist on the moon. It's that guy.

Yeah, it is. Bloody hell. Now, he gets, now, in 1999, the government declassified. massifies cabinet papers from 48 under the 50 year rule, and they reveal that fucking Monty had done a two-month tour of 11 African nations, and then he wrote to the Prime Minister, which would be Atley, saying that the African is quote, is quote. Yeah, I'm sorry.

You're about to go straight into that. No, I wasn't. The African is a, is a quote, my king. The African is quote, a complete savage and incapable of developing the country. himself and he urges the government to ignore the UN and exploit Africa as a white supremacist bullwork against communism. This was a big thing in aparthe. Was it?

They would talk about the red danger, the Ruijafar. And the big thing was like, we're not racist. It's just that all the communists are black. That was kind of their angle for a long time. Steve Beko, was left leaning. But then left leaning as Africa means, can you stop apartheid? It's not, it's not communism. Yeah.

They would just say like, oh, well, this is our fundamental. of good Christian civilization against it. It's quite funny to call apartheid. People of your anti-apartheid. You're a fucking communist. That was the line. Yeah. They went for it.

But this is where the revisionism about actually the North African campaign being won by Turing starts. As a counter to... As a counter to the fact that he was actively pro-apartheid, pro-white supremacy. I guess this is the problem with the House of Lords is it is your, it's your fucking uncle at Christmas. Yes.

And it's when you all sat down afterwards. And he's like, he does have a thief. he's a member of the family. Yeah. It's a huge. Should he have a voice? Why has he got a microphone? It's the chamber of uncles.

It is the chamber of uncles. All legislation has to pass through the chamber of uncles to be amended and approved. Why? Why we get an article piss and then signing off on for fucking legislation? There's a piss. They're all going to. There's a bar open from 7 a.m. It's awful.

Crazy. They're overheated in the big slopes. He becomes such a renowned sort of British establishment figure that supposedly Monty. That supposedly Monty is named after Monty. Oh, interesting. sort of mocking tribute to him. And also there is a thing

called a Montgomery cocktail which is a martini mixed at 15 to 1 gin to vermouth because supposedly he would refuse to attack unless he had a 15 to 1 advantage. That's a lot of gin. Or it's basically just drinking gin. Gin with a dash of vermouth.

Yeah, a splat up a pet of vermouth. Given the stuff I've just found out he was saying in the 60s, you don't want to say I'll have a Montgomery cocktail. Is this something to do with the atomic racism again? Yeah. No, no, it's just a big pint of gin, please. Good, that's nice.

So he dies in 76, I believe. Yeah. Although he was in public. He was sort of a public figure until he basically got too old and sort of hid. He died with his brother holding his hand. And he received a military funeral with his coffin draped in a union jack and a beret place on top of the coffin. Yes, Charlie? You know you said that he died too late?

What age would you ideally like to go? It was about age, it's about his age. It's about his views coming out at a time when they were, you know, deeply out of step with public opinion. Yeah. To say the least. The 70s shouldn't have seen Monty,

Monty shouldn't have seen the 70s. Do you think that could happen to you? Do you think like... 100%? It's already happened. If anything, I'm already there. He's the spirit of Monty. Yeah.

What decade do you think you'd ideally live to? We... I don't know. I mean, they might come around again. Yeah. the 30s might come around again who knows who knows and so I suppose it's

you know Monty is the great outlasts Romel it's you know Romel's here for a good time on a long time and Monty just sort of I guess it's a victory of autism over ADHD which is cute asking at the end of these series

what Charlie's learned that's true Charlie what have you learned at the end of four hours of Autism over ADHD because the Reformation you didn't know what the Reformation was. That was very dispiriting actually after the end we asked you.

Sadly, a lot of people have come up to me and said I did agree with Charlie at the end and did also to know what the Reformation was. Right. I've learned that there's loads of fish, I think that fish can sink. No, no, no, no. Fish can drown on the floor of the sea. I don't think they drown though. They just sink.

They just sink. Fish diet. There's loads of dead fish on the floor in France. Anything about Monti and Romual? Monty. Wait, hang on, I got something. Monty and Romel They never met And maybe if they had it It would have actually been alright

And they could have hatched it out Because I don't actually think They would have never conversed in person Yeah that's true They did never meet But them hatching it out Is kind of a worst case scenario Because if it's like

If Monti and Romer meet I think they did hash it out I think that's what the Battle of Val Alame Was them hashing it out I'll meet you at Al Alamein What Hach this is out? Famously They hashed it out

That's kind of what the series is about. Pierre, your concluding thoughts on the... How important to the war is it? You know, we've sort of done a deep dive on... You know, we wanted to do North Africa, but also this is the funnest way to do it because it takes the importance of the scope. How, you know, when you're weighing up the whole World War II,

how important you said you sent him onto? Oh, yeah, a big deal. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just need someone autistic enough to ignore angry texts from Churchill to hurry up. Just wait till you have an overwhelming advantage

and supplies and armour and then just smush the enemy. Smush. Romel got smushed. Romel got smushed like a big bug. Yeah. And then, yeah, unfortunately then Monty got over excited and Operation Market Garden and all that. Was that him?

Yeah, it was his plan. It was his big fuck up. Oh, fuck. We didn't even talk about that. Yeah, we also didn't talk. Land up there. Berlin, 10 minute drive. You know, that was his big fuck up. He loved that. So we didn't talk about the PR disaster.

Because we're doing PR disasters during the war. Because he's such a British supremacist. He still viewed Britain as far more superior than America. And when the Battle of the Bulge happened, which was mainly American thing, there was a very small thing that Monty did. He basically did a press conference where he said it was all the Brits.

And it's pissed off everyone. To the point where Churchill had to apologize. He would allow the Americans like, constantly. But this is the autism coming through, right? This is the bluntness. This is why. press conferences and not his forte. You mustn't let someone like this talk to the public.

No, of course not. No, the internal politics. This is Errol Musk sort of stuff. This is Errol Musk. We're going to have to bring up Errol Musk. We're going to have to bring up Errol Musk on the patron, where Pierre's going to stick around and we're going to do, we're going to carry on our history of the SAS.

But we will also get his opinion on the grandfather of the pod, Errol Musk as a fellow South African. Pierre, we need to plug your podcast, your two podcasts, video games, and then you do Budpob with Glenn. pod with Glenn, which is a sort of just general comedy chat, kind of pathetically. We did a big, we won an award for a big riff about how Mr. Blobby was in the IRA. Brilliant. And that's why he has that.

An award winning riff. An award winning riff. You can get awards for riffs. Yeah. Christ. Modern day. Wars for bloody everything. Yes, the idea was that Mr. Blobby's voice was dubbed like Jerry Adams.

He wasn't actually saying blobby, blahby, blah. He was making quite salient points about the plantations. And he'd been overduffed by the BBC. You're also, people need to check out your standoff. You're doing Edinburgh. Doing Edinburgh fringe. Again. What's this?

In a row, how many hours is this? 11 or 12 hours. Can't even keep count of hours in a row. I mean, it's kind of like unfair to everyone else doing Edinburgh. It's a bit like Michael Phelps joining the Paralympics. It's not fair that you're doing Edinburgh again this far. It will be the best thing you see at the festival if you go see Pierre. I'm going to keep doing it until they make me stop.

Yeah. Promote me to the league above. Yeah. One of the best standups there is. so go and check out Pierre's stuff and your radio four the reels of your Radio 4 series are really good as well

Thank you man that series is still just up forever I think just through your eye player BBC sounds check Pierre out he's going to stick around and we're going to get into the SAS again and if not we'll see you next week

for a brand new topic from all of us here good night God bless good night