Fin vs History - Cuckolded by Mr Tumble | Claudius (Part 2)

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

Tumble's had a rumble in the jungle! Claudius (Part Two) The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor  This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark.     Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh  Chapters: 00:00 - The Nonce Cuck 04:23 - Enter Brave Salmon 07:28 - Prophet Mohammed Superstar 12:09 - Ancient British Moustaches 14:27 - Beter Bandelson  21:06 - Bonnius Blues  27:16 - Mr Tumble 29:52 - Chads Or Cucks 33:44 - Uno Reverse 37:31 - Gandhi-ing It 42:34 - Pick A Team 47:03 - Hisslapped Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor.

Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Welcome back to Finnverse History. by Horatio Gould. This is part two of the Claudius story. We're back in ancient Rome. Now we left off

with a quivering disabled man who'd been flung from behind a curtain as Caligula lay dead on the floor. His baby had been taken off the stumps. And he is made emperor

by the Praetorian Guard. Much to everyone's surprise. Yeah. And this is where now Claudius Truthers Claudius conspiracist theorists would say that he had a part

in Caligula's demise Well we have no idea What happened Sequentially In this event Because it sort of reads a bit Like a myth Right

We don't know how much is true All we seemingly do know is that he Bride the Praetorian Guard Loads and loads of money But he had cash ready to go Yeah Which implies that he was in on a plan Yeah

to murder colligula. The disabled noncy uncle. He's not noncy. He's not noncy. We've got to give him his Jews. He's actually a cuckold. He's a nonce cuck.

Now that is a combination. Yes. The very, very rare. I want to watch you commit paedophilia. Yeah. Is that what it is? Who are you here to watch me? Are you watching me meet someone here?

That's just fascinating. The non's cuck. Yeah. Wow. Who are you here to watch me? You hear to watch me meet someone? Let me meet someone in peace. That's great.

If you're a nonce cuck, let's know in the comments. I've not even heard of that concept. The nonce cuck. Can we get different pictures of different cuck seating arrangements? Because it's one of my favorite things on Twitter is in like new hotels or like hotel rooms where you find different. Like the cut command center. I've seen the cut command center. Yeah.

So there's always the classic where you put your feet up but that's a bit more too leisurely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This one's great.

This one's great. Yeah. So that's, that means that you can get also, yeah, that means that you're taking it very seriously. An executive cuck chair. Yes.

Well, that's when you've got business to do whilst being cuckolded. And that's part of the great thing about being a cuck. Yeah. Is that it does open up time for you to get on with other things.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. I don't have to, I can, you know, my wife is being satisfied. Yeah. And I'm being satisfied.

watching it, but at the meantime, I'm dealing with my emails. As we've said before, the female equivalent is a kukkian. I can't remember what part of this we came up with, what episode this was on. I guess that doesn't get talked about as much. The queen is the wife of an adulterous husband, the gender opposite of a kuckold. I guess because the kuck, when it's a man, it attacks your masculinity. Yes, it's very gendered, it's very gendered the notion of the kuck, isn't it? But a kuk queen, it doesn't feel to attack someone's femininity.

because it's almost built into femininity you're getting cheated on. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't seem to be an attack on your gender. Being cuckolded if you're a woman compared to if you're a man. But I guess if you're being cuckolded as a man, what is that doing to the woman? It's kind of irrelevant almost, isn't it? It's all about the male experience.

The woman's a prop for your... Yeah. What is it, Charlie? But in cuckweening, the male is known as the hot husband and the other female is known as the cutcake. The cut cake? The cut cake. Yeah, still pretty objectifying, I think.

Queening is often known... Wait, hot husband is that like hot desking? I guess it is actually, yeah. I'm hot husbanding. You're renting out your husband. Yeah. For cut cakes.

Cuck cakes is a strange. It's too close to cupcakes, which is a child's cake. Let's be honest. Or cut the cake. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about one of the great cucks of all time.

One of the great cucks of all time. The cagote. The cuck goat. He was not a nonce cuck. But that has whetted my appetit. tight to try and see if such a man exists. Charlie, little task for this episode. Find me an example if one exists of a nonce cuck.

Yes. Anyway, Claudius bribes the Praetorian Guard straight away. Who make him emperor straight away? So there's clearly some kind of arrangement. And so he gives them 15,000 cestices. What's that in modern money? Don't give, Charlie's looking for a nonce cuck. Sorry.

We can't, we don't know. I think at one point we found out it was pretty much equivalent to pounds. I think that's, I doubt that. That's bollocks. The first thing he does, as emperor is, and I devastatingly sad, he invades Britain. Yes. He conquers. He conquers Britain.

He is the, you know, the whole, when we were at school and we learn about the Romans in Britain, it's Claudius. Yeah. It's, he's our enemy. For sure. But the reason why he does it is because he's got an insecure route to power. his lineage is a bit wishy-washy he's a loser who draws and laughs inappropriately so he wants to open his kind of tenure

with a big alpha male win and he depicts himself in pictures as a sort of rapist there's like you've seen this there's like posters of would be of him of like Britannia as this woman who's trying to get away from him and he's raping her but then politically

that was seen as like a brilliant thing that was seen as like a cool That's like, that's good PR. Well, again, this is the opposite of today, as we've said, in that rape is a positive PR move. Brilliant. You know. Oh, we can't vote.

He's not anywhere near. He couldn't rape a fucking fly. He wouldn't rape a fly. Yeah. Is that Claudius raping Britain? Where's, oh, right. See, nowadays, you know. Nowadays, that's fucking these days.

These days, that's nowadays, except Claudius is Sidique Khan. Raping London. Right. with gang brannock banging London with this series of emissions policies. Anyway,

no, but nowadays, obviously, any public figure is, you know, has PR teams to try and distance themselves

from a hint of rape. Yeah, you don't want a hint. It's not a politician with a hint of rape. You really don't want any of that. Enter this brave salmon swimming upstream.

Oh, no, I'm, I rape. I'm a rapist. Vote for me. Maybe it will work. It's a single issue party.

Yeah, he's using rape as a propaganda tool. It's extraordinary, actually. Extraordinary. I mean, we're barely 10 minutes in. And the concepts we've uncovered, non-s-cuckery, rapers are a positive propaganda tool. But it sort of implies that there would be like a debate, politicians' debate when you're going for power and everyone's saying,

well, he's not a rapist. No, I'm a rapist. No, I'm much more of rapist. I'm a much more of rapist than him. Look at my manifesto. I will rape. He says that. lies. You'll get into power. It's all taught.

He will disappoint you. He's all mouth and no trousers. And I mean that. The trousers are staying on. So yes, he paints himself as a rapist and Britain is his victim. And Romans like this. Yeah. It's a different time. So let's get into the conquest

of Britain. Okay. So he, and at this point the Roman Empire was the Gaul is under Rome, imagine. Yeah, that was Julius Caesar. Yes, of course. So Caesar conquered the Gauls. Germanicus, his brother had done Germany. So the next stage is to go into Britain.

Now, Britain at this point, Britain is a complete backwater. Yeah, it's crap. Yes, it's the north. No, it's unmetting it's crap. It's north of Oxford and Cambridge is what the whole of the country is basically. Yes, yeah, yeah. We're in the toilet. But for that golden era, from, you'd say, 1815 to 1945,

we have mainly been in the toilet. We must not forget that we... We had an hour in the sun, but really, we're stinky toilet dwellers for most of the time. But the reason they attack Britain as well is because it's not that important a country for anything. It doesn't have many resources. It has a couple of pearls, a bit of tin. That's kind of it. They're doing it because it's terrifying.

Fish? Yeah, a bit of fish. But they're doing it because it's terrifying and you can gain a lot of honour by conquering. It's basically the way they write about... Britain in the Roman Empire as the way that the British wrote about the Congo as this sort of like exotic wild place that they used to write... Heart of Darkness. It's basically, genuinely.

Britain is heart of darkness. Genuinely. And in the heart of darkness that opens when they're leaving Gravesend on the boat because it's going from one mouth of the river to the other mouth of the river. Yes. He talks about the same of the Romans coming into the Thames. Oh, really? He actually makes that link.

So people in Rome are hearing of this sort of this jungle. of Essex You know Surrey Kent Oh shivers going down the spine

You know This this hot moist Yes Scary place Dengue fever Semi detached New builds Oh

Shuddering Have you had your jabs Are you going to Suffolk You know So the invasion begins In 43 Should we place this We haven't placed

Yes 43 43 AD It is It is Well it's 10 years after the death of Christ. And then it's before the first time...

It's before biscuits become part of the Christian church. Before Jesus Christ Superstar? Yes, that's nice. Yeah. It's 10 years after Christ Christ dies, and you'd say... When was Jesus Christ Superstar? We had to check first.

70s. I think it's the 70s. Because it wasn't in that small window after he died and 43C.E. I'm sure of it. Jesus Christ Superstar, I'm pretty sure the original is in the 70s. Right, so there's a long,

a long... wide birth. 1973. That's a lovely cushioning, actually. So yeah, it's 10 years after Jesus was crucified and it is 1,440 years

before the first performance of Jesus Christ Superstar. That's how long it took for the story of Jesus to become a gay musical. Okay, which I think is a good enough time. Yeah. Now, how long will it take

for the story of Muhammad, the sequel to Jesus Christ Superstar? well we're not in this great great scheme of things we're not that far off really we're only yeah really well well I'm just saying we we didn't get a car too we didn't get really really I think we're about 500 years off

right Mohammed's superstar Prophet Mohammed Superstar type in Prophet Mohammed Superstar I want to see if there's any short-lived because they would be short-lived they would be it's not a long running much as the author the playwright would be quite short-lived as well prophet Mohammed's super yeah definitely a more

controversial but better probably experience in the prophet Mohammed superstar yeah it's a good question Phoebe our research has just asked how tough would auditions be for Muhammad I mean they'd be closed they'd be closed doors I'd say that they would not be open open auditions you could do some creative staging a lot of silhouette it's not X factor no yes shadow puppets I'd say probably I saw a production of his dark materials where they had a lot of shadow puppets that's not what I call the Quran don't chop our heads off please please we're trying

Okay. I'd love to go to Mecca if I was allowed. Yes. I'm not allowed apparently. Apparently. Apparently these days. But don't worry. Mecca's coming to London, so it doesn't matter.

Yeah. I open my door and I'm in Mecca nowadays. I open my front door. Right. Anyway, it's the first conquest of Britain before the Islamic Empire, which we are under now. This is the Roman Congress of Britain in the year 43. So Claudia sends 40,000 soldiers. across the English channel.

Well, you're not reading the paper. This just happened a thousand years ago. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement

and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price? Moment. Old Navy's drape you dead and wide leg. Hello, I'm Doreen Linsky from Origin Story. And I'm Ian Dunn. We're the hosts of a podcast that tries to tell the truth about the political terms that we use today. None of the tribal bullshit, none of the irrationality, none of the hysteria, just accuracy and laughs as we try to understand the world around us. We dig into history to tell stories that explain why we are where we are today. And we're very excited that we get to do this on stage as well. And soon we will be doing it at our biggest ever,

live show. Yeah, on September 1st in the Union Chapel, London. Come join us there for a night of laughs, maybe a few tears, and just a general feeling of moral vindication. There's a link to buy tickets in the show notes, and the good news is if you're a Patreon, you get a fairly substantial discount. So if you've been

thinking of signing up, now's a good time. We'll see you there. And they're led by Orlus Ploutius. Right. They romance, you know, I mean, we fold like a house of cards, really, because we're all just very thick and ugly and smelly. Yes, we are.

And we're wearing rags. And we're like the trolls and frozen, you know, we're just, little people with wide heads. So I think that they're terrified because we look mental. We're Uga-Bugger at this point. We are Uga-Ugo-Bugur. The things that shock the Romans about us that they think are completely barbaric is... Oga-Boga-Fu-Fa-Fu-Fu-A. Stasis Sto-Stu-Lus. Stasis Sto-U-Lus. Yeah. Essex, Uga-Bug-Bug-O-E.

Pete Wicks and Stachy-Mug-Mug-A-M-W. you mugibooka me off. That's how they sound. The things that are completely barbaric about us, the Romans, is we wear trousers. They've never seen trousers before. The Romans? They've never seen trousers.

They're wearing skirts, of course. They're wearing skirts. And they're saying, who are these... Fascisties? These fronty fairies wearing trousers. These gay boys wearing trousers. Because that's like a... It's an ancient Britain thing to wear trousers,

pajama bottoms, basically. Is it? And then also... A trousers this old? Let's check, check. Ancient Britain trousers. It feels like... quite a rare thing

and then we have blue tattoos blue hair we all look like the white brigade to be honest 600 BC wow trousers are very old ancient Britons yeah and then moustaches we all had

the ancient Britain moustache really they don't have moustaches they saw it's very unman they were quite clean shave the rome's well there's the ancient Greek beard which is without the moustache yes and then I guess we're the opposite ancient britain moustaches

mustaches did britons have moustaches they used to bleach there I mean that's still happening in Essex now they used to bleach their hair and beard. But I'm, do you know what? Because I've always struggled to feel connected to Britain in this day

in this time we're talking about. Why? Pre-Roman. Pre-Norman, really. Pre-Norman? Yeah. Well, pre-Nelson, let's be honest. But the idea that we had mustaches and were wearing trousers, when the Romans invaded. Yeah.

Suddenly I feel slightly more connected to the country. Yeah. You know? A brewing. Anyway, so they... We're thick and ugly people, for sure. No, we haven't changed that much, I suppose. Now, the Romans quickly gain control of Southeast England.

The D-Day Landing beaches for the Romans. Terrifying. Margate. Yeah. What else? Fucking, I don't know. Burgess Hill. Wittsable, Burgess Hill.

These names that echo down the centuries. You know, these slaughter sites. Claudius wants the conquest to finish quickly. Yeah. He goes to Britain himself. Wivlesfield. Plumpton. Say their names.

He arrives on the front at the Thames with a herd of war elephants to begin the final march on Colchester. I think this is a good time to do a soundscape of the elephant herd arriving in Colchester. Okay. Oh my, my God. Take them. Take him. Take him. All right.

Oh my days. There's one on the floor. Is that what the fuck is that? Is that like a fucking big dog? Oh my. Now you jump on him. What? Take him.

You try to make it rapy again, aren't you? You're always trying to make on soundscapes, rape him. I thought I was safer the elephant because I knew what was going to happen. No, but then Charlie was like, on you're right, you rape him. Fucking Weinstein stuff from behind the dust.

I don't know why we keep doing these soundscapes. It's always the same thing. Yeah. normally he raves you right it's a great subversion on the form so elephants storm colchester i mean you know

they're still doing that yeah uh i don't know if you ever been there on a saturday night is colchester good lord is it a good town no no i'm on tour there am i don't know maybe i'm not colchester art centre shout out yeah that's a good venue it's not a good venue colchester art centre it's up there with swindon art centre for me

right well with thickies behind in the tech booths some real clawlisters on the There's a few Emperor Claudius who's working in a culture as a art centre It's a church It's an off the curb gig

And yeah No It's not my favourite Also the car park situation is atrocious And the cities have been Anyway, what is it Charlie? There's no public records

of Pido Cucks But I think Bita Bandelson Probably was one to be honest Beta Bandelson Say his name Say his name Peter Bandleson. The nonce cuck.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, there's a first time for everything. I mean, there will have been some. Yes. But they haven't put the word out. Sure. Yes. Very humble the nonce cuck. Well, it is.

It's a strange fetish. To want someone else. Is it worse? To assault a child. And to you to feel cuckolded by that. Is it worse? Is it worse? I don't think it is worse.

I don't think it is. There's something more fucked about it. Yeah. certainly desk down the line. It's certainly harder to get your head around. It's more terrifying. It's a complicated way. Yeah.

No, I suppose we shouldn't think about it too much. Listen, Colchester is pillaged. 11 tribes surrendered to Claudius, and a cultured is then called Camelodonum is the first Roman capital in Britain. Oh, yeah. And so Claudius is then given the title Britannicus, which does not mean

Encyclopedia at this point it means conqueror Britain so Britain has fallen Colchester has fallen there are elephants parading the streets of Colchester and in Claudius then starts carrying on

he goes the King of Judea dies in 44 And was he the King of Judea when Jesus died I guess so now is Judea Is that Israel? Yes On the map where is Judea Charlie give us a map

of ancient Judea, because this is probably where Israel will be in the next hundred years, I imagine. Right. I think it's... And then this would be King... This would be King Herod. Okay, so it's a small section

away from the coast, but between the river, not the sea. So it's... But Jerusalem is in that. It's sort of just bordering, I'd say, modern-day Gaza, you'd say. But it's interesting here, not to get too political.

The kingdom of Israel is a kingdom. Yeah. But that kingdom does not stretch into Jerusalem or Judea or the kingdom, the Philistine kingdom. Yeah, which is where Gaza is. And I imagine Palestine comes from Philistine. Does it? Well, it seems so.

Are you pro-Phillstein? Well, it's interesting that Philistine becomes a slur. Yes, it does. It's for somebody who doesn't read. Is Palestine from Philistine? Very, this is fascinating stuff. This is good stuff. But it is interesting for the territorial claims of Israel

that even in their 5,000-year-old claims, they are northern what is that region ever you know Judea is still not yes wow that's fascinating so it's pro Philistine free the people who can't

don't read yes now what does Philistine mean it does sort of just mean idiot I believe he's uncultured isn't it a person who is hostile or indifferent to art culture intellectual pursuits a big hostile to art it's quite funny well I am a Philistine yeah I am pro Philistine

I am actually hostile art. Yeah, free Philistine is get me out of this play. Yes, yeah. So you're free Philistine. I will bomb the National Gallery in order to free to liberate Philistines. Where's the etymology of Philistine? Why they're calling these people Philistines, sorry, just to get this.

A guy at school said I was the least cultured person in school. Who said this? A guy called Nicola Stoyanovich. I will name him. Do you think, did you agree with that? No. But you don't consume, I mean, you do. You go to a festival.

He just did a deep dive on how he was going to go to the anal action series on a porn conference. Biblical name is enemies of Israel because they're enemies of Israel. So they've always been enemies of Israel. So it becomes an English insult for an uncultured anti-intellectual person through 17th century German

slang. But we do need to do the history of... Israel. Yeah, I mean, it's a long one, but seeing as that in the Bible, the Philistines and the Israelis are fighting each other, that's pretty extraordinary. Wow. So it's basically

is what Jewish people are calling their enemies. It's Philistines. Yeah. Phenomenal. Good stuff. Well, an unnecessary tangent, but a fascinating one. And just to reiterate, I am pro-Philistine. Get me out of this art gallery now.

Herod dies and Claudius annexes the king of Judea and puts the province on the direct control of the Roman Empire. He has a similar thing in Thrace. I don't know where that is. Greece. Yeah. Northern Greece. Turkey.

By Turkey. Yes, please. Oh, so it's Romania. Bulgaria. It's from, you're going from hair transplant into sex trafficking. Right. On the kind of, on the map that we can understand. Yeah.

So you've got spicy, spicy jubim stuff. Closing your eyes. Your haircuts. It's like with Braille. Sex trafficking. Not today. A little cabbage. You know, I can, I can, yes, it's the Braille map of the world.

Yeah. I know where I am. It's a bit of Greece as well. So it's lazy, it's lazy sex traffickers. Yeah. It's the nonce cuck. Yeah. So after the successful campaign in Britain, the elephants in Colchester,

Claudius is at the height of his power. And so he passes a decree reducing the authority of the Senate because actually the interesting thing is that seeing his colligula and Nero, these tyrants, everyone kind of thinks that Claudius maybe was going to bring back the republic and that he was going to empower the Senate. But he doesn't. And so there is an increase in political violence. But because he's sandwiched between these two absolute Gaddafi

ask mad cubs. He never gets the credit for being bloodthirsty. As a prime minister, who is Claudius? Because he's sort of like a bureaucratic pen pusher. Is he a bit of a major underrated?

Or is they're not one that tracks? Well, you've got Augustus is Blair. I guess Tyberius is Heath because of the non-s allegations. And then, I suppose, Caligula is trust. It's this frenzy, sex, sex. crazed period in our history that you know we just went we just went mad for a couple of

years and we just elected an absolute sauce pot um uh then uh who is maybe it doesn't track well who's our most disabled prime minister called him brown at douglas allegrauma yeah maybe it's brown yeah brown because brown is a technocratic you know yeah yes he's a numbers guy and people underestimated him yeah and he kind of rose through the ranks even though Blair should have purged him. Yes. What's fascinating that documentary

is where Blair is kind of Cherie, the puppet mistress who did 9-11, let us not forget, we're wearing totally like a puppet.

There's weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We need to be on the American whatever cost, right? She says you should get rid of Gordon. Yeah.

She does. Of course she does. Lady of Beth. Fucking minks. Well done. I'm erect. Well, I have done it now.

I've got it. You've got it. Got me out of Shari Blair now. Like, I've got to pause the episode. We've got to have an intermission while I go and bust one out next door because you brought up Shari Blare again. How many times?

We need to have a sign in the studio saying don't mention Shari. Then even that would make me think of Sharia. Christ. It's a good thing I've got wearing on my gunt bulging trousers. I'm coming up to Shiree powerful erection down there.

But you can't see it for the amount of girth. Because you've got the Iron Dome. The cord dome. around my missile system. Fuck me. Now, speaking of Sheree Blair and minks like puppet mistresses.

God, we actually got a lot to get through. We've got so much to get through. What is it, Charlie? This is important. Just quickly, Gordon Brown's favorite main is rumbled thumps and his favorite pudding is crumbull. That's not relevant.

Rumbled thumps. Rumbly thumpes is a Scottish dish, but we don't have time. He also likes some... No. Kit Kass. Right. Four finger or chunky.

No, come on. Last episode, we brought you breaking news about Amon I'm as stroke. This episode, breaking news, Gordon Brown likes Kit Katz. Anyway, and there has been no recorded evidence of there ever being a non-cuck. More fascinating insights from the scholars at Finn Fess's history. Now, listen, Claudius, the increase in political violence seen under Claudius is actually the doings of his wife. His bitch wife, Messalina.

Now, we need to get into Messalina. By the way, he is the first emperor to introduce frisking. What is that? Is that what? Stop and search. Is this a racial thing? Well, as you say, there's no real racial dynamics in the Roman Empire. So I guess it's just stop and search. But it could be able to us, couldn't it?

Not if he's doing it. Yeah. Because he's clapped. The disabled prime minister. The disabled, the Gordon Brown. Let's get to the wife. Right. The wife, Messalina.

Okay. We need to get into Messalina who she is. What number wife is this? I think this is number four, I believe. Is it? Or is it three? Just double check one of the wife. Because he had one who died on the wedding day.

Yep. He had another who he left because she was no longer... Politically relevant. But also their son had choked to death on a pair, age four. And now she's got this third one who's an 18 hot piece of ass. She's an 18-year-old scheming. Yeah. And I think he's going in saying,

I'm 50, she's 18. I can control her. The power dynamics very much in my favour. This is an old man taking advantage of a naive girl. He's wrong. But it's a reverse owl, because she completely drives him like a Sherry Blair puppet. She's the dog, he's the rabbit.

Yeah, definitely. So Messalina is renowned for her political scheming, wildly promiscuous. Apparently she would compete with the famous Roman prostitutes to see how many men they can sleep within a night. So she's Bonnie Bluey. Bonnius Bluess. Yeah, Bonniest Blue, the original Bonnius Bluest.

It's sex as sport. Yeah. Now, Claudius supposedly is a bit of a horn dog, as we said. Steennawood Horny, tough pocket to be in. Hawking us. Yeah. But he's also very passive and easily dominated by women in his life. Yes.

Both politically and sexually. Much like Blair. Yeah. So, now, Messalina, she, she attempts to marry her lover, the Senator Gaius Silius, that's his actual name. Mr. Scylius, Senator Silius. Which is insult to injury.

Yes. To Claudius, I think. Yes, that is a step too far. If I'm being cuckled by a man called Senator Silius. Yeah. It's like me being cuckolded by Mr. Tumble. You know? You get Mr. Tumble, if you, if my wife leaves me for Mr. Tumble, I'm like,

Well, I can't. This is, I can't face anything. My kid's stepdad is Mr. fucking Tumble. I can't, I can't compete with that. Right? He's like God to these kids. Mr. Tumble. I don't trust him though.

Hey, oh! Wait, wait, does Mr. Tumble shacked up with a young piece of ass? He has. He has, he has recently, he's been asexual for a while. Tumbles has been having a rumble in the jungle. Tumbles rumble in the jungle. He's had, he's been asexual for a while. And he has been major, like, like, like, near in the major.

It's dodging non-saccusations, right? Because also being a children's as a tailor for that long, over that many different areas is a tough picket. And she's 21. Oh, hoof. That's an excellent Mr. Tumble, just so I say. I don't really watch a lot of Tumble. Oh, wolf.

She's 21. I'm 55. Now, your kids love him, Mr. Tumble. Obsessed with him. Really? Yeah. I don't think I've watched. Tumble is growing up?

Why would you? You don't have kids? No, but when I was growing up, how long has he been going? If you're watching Mr. Tumble, He's like the messy of kids to be. He is the go. Really? Yeah.

No one's dying like Tumble. Dumble, Dumble. Dumble, Dumble, Dumble, Dumble. It's him where he's going to bring out a big pink hat or something. Gond, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Yeah. She's 34. Okay.

But still, 21 years of junior. Still a doubt. How long has he been at the top of children's television, Mr. Tumble? Do you think he's got an anger inside him? Do you think he gets? Yeah, but I think what's quite sweet about this, our wool relationship is it, they both have a love of performing. And they both, they both share the stage. age.

It does feel like... It's John and Yoko. Yeah, exactly. She will tear him down, I think. He started September 2003. So, were you, how old were you in that? Were you nine? Was this before or after the Iraq invasion?

This will be six months after. Iraq is March 2003. There's maybe a link there. What is the link explain it? I just think that's, it's post-Irake Britain. Right, so we need, our innocence has been shattered, you know, it's not worked like it did the three times. Things only get better have stopped getting better.

Release Mr. Tumble. So Messalina is having an affair with Senator Silly Claudius as if, you know, one thing is to be cuckolded

but to be to be, but by Senator Silly so he learns the marriage he orders the execution on both Messalina and Silius immediately. Yeah.

Well this is, so when I was doing the research I did ask ChachyPT because it didn't really make sense why anyone would do that. It makes it still a mystery and there's no historical record because it's such an insane thing

for her to do. Yeah. Want to know the real story of how Oasis made Britain mad for it? How friends turned us on to coffee culture and super-layered hair. The secrets of Nirvana, train spotting, gay hookups, Diana's revenge dress, and what it was really like to be a spice girl? Plunge back into the decade when the world fell for cool Britannia, bumster jeans and lemon hooch with Talk 90s to Me.

Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you use Spotify, you can watch the whole show too. That's Talk 90s to Me. every Monday. The United States is the weirdest country in the world right now, and it doesn't make any sense to anyone. No, it doesn't, but I want to make it a bit less confusing. Oh, I do.

Good. Well, our podcast can help. It's called American Friction, and it's out every Monday and Friday. We discuss all the big news from across the pond and explain it all with world-leading experts. That's American Friction. Listen, right now, wherever you get your podcasts, right now. American Friction Because what

I can't really understand why you would do something as reckless as that It was forbidden to marry To bigamy was forbidden He's the emperor Yeah you can't But she's so drunk on power Because we hadn't quite said

All the political violence supposedly she orchestrates So she is the She's like Sheree Blair With her hand up to own his ass She's orchestrates She's drunk on the power hour. But what's that wedding like?

The emperor's out of town and you get a wedding like, is there a stag do? Is there like, what's the reception? Like, this is not going to laugh. If you're a wedding guest, you're like, you're the fucking you're going to clearly, he's going to chop your heads off. The only reason for it has to be that they're planning to

overtake, surely. Because otherwise it's completely insane. Yes. So her execution is orchestrated by Claudius's Friedman, Narcissus to prevent the emperor from forgiving her. Because he's such a Cuck. He's such a cuck.

His mate has to come in and be like, I'm going to have to do this because he's such a pussy. Yeah, he's such a weak guy. What I think is interesting about Claudius is he's underrated this whole time. And yes, his love life is humiliating throughout his whole life. I mean, his life is always humiliations pretty much. But being the kind of bookish nerdy ruler, he does manage to get things done that the nerds do. Gordon Brown saved the world.

All leaders are either kind of chads or cucks, really. and there needs to be sometimes you need a cucks and you need a chat. For peacetime, cucks can get a lot done. You know, McMillan built a lot of houses. Because they've got desks.

They've got desks watching their wife get railed. Yes. Churchill, you need him for war. Yeah. You know, Macmillan, domestic policy. Is that I mean? Yes.

You never had it so good. Never had it so good. But he, I think that he was such a nerd and scholar about things like hydraulics and stuff like that. So he did mad stuff like he dug, Like he dug what are you getting?

Nothing. Just Sharia law. Sharia law? Sharia law. Tony was under Sharia law. Sharia law. Sheree law is an L-O-R-E. Yeah, interesting.

Very interesting. Shri-Blair law. I mean, I will happily live under Shiree law. Well, your hands chopped off. Chop my hands off because I can't stop touching myself. You've chopped your own hands off because you can't be trusted. Yeah.

But yes, let's get into what he actually does. He builds the first. deep sea harbour in Rome. Is this an Ostea? No, but they already have a port in Austria because they don't have a deep sea harbor in Rome. So basically it's all about the running running Rome is all

about can you get grain from the rest of the empire into the city and the provinces. That's the main logistical issue of running Roman Empire. And all his engineers says you are fucking mad. We can't. We've got shovels. They don't have any technology. But he says, I'm the emperor gayer done. And they do. They build, they basically

just, I don't know. How do they dig a Deep Sea Hobbit? Is it just hold your breath with a spade, go under and dick? That's what I think about the rather high tunnel. Which you walk through. Yeah. That was Brunel right? How did you do the right tunnel? How did you? How did you? Yeah, I don't understand that either. We're getting it. We're getting into science. But that was industrial revolution.

This was... The channel tunnel... This was 2,000 years before that. The channel tunnel makes my fucking head hurt. I don't know. I guess you'll start, you can start underground in England and then you can go. But then it's just everyone drowned. It's water. I don't understand it. Rather than starting in the rough sea, engine is dug out a large natural coastal lagoon

and plot of land inland. They let the sea flood in. So, yeah. Okay. Anyway, so they build a massive floating harbour, but this takes like 100, you know, 20 years. But he starts it.

He modernises the aqueducts. He's quite religiously tolerant. Intolerant. He restores many old religious practices and festivals. But he gets, he's not, he's intolerant of astrologers, which is fine. He is quite like, wants to he thinks romans are losing their way because they're going getting too much into eastern

practices oh i see right okay uh he hates druids yes as well yeah so he hates any of the hippie bullshit and in the year 50 he decides to oust all jews from rome i mean it says the reason behind the deportation remains unclear i will help you out they're jewish that's the reason the reason is it's a time in history exactly they're jewish and it's a time on planet earth that's why they've been kicked out okay it is the one constant through every era that we talk about on this show is that if there are Jews there they'll be kicked out shortly they'll be kicked out

they'll be asked to leave in many ways the modern day era is the great the great pivot yes is you'd say is Bebe Lanhahu's reign is the Jews saying

now you get out he's uno reversed yeah he's done he's UNO reversed 2,000 years of history yeah Netanyahu yeah no reverse

fair play you know so So let's get into his government reform. Some of this stuff is quite boring, but we'll just mention it. He builds a big aqueduct. Yeah. Brilliant.

Brilliant. He increases the role of ex-slaves. He serves... He has like... This is like renter's rights almost where he says, if your slave is ill, you can't just kill them. Which is funny that this is like... You can imagine the telegraph. Oh, I could already...

What's the point in having a slave? squeezing slave owners. Like I can't afford. My slaves are always getting ill. You basically have to make sure that they get better. Being on 100 grand a year is actually you're the poorest in the country. Because of the tax deficit, you know, you lose your personal allowance. I'm collecting Telegraph headlines and sending a lot to Finn.

We will do a breakdown of some of the best ones because they've been, they know their audience. They're on a role, recently. No other paper knows its audience better than the Telegraph. They're in complete harmony with the people who are. read it. And they're not trying to get anyone else. No, no. It's so clear.

Clearer than even the Guardian, it's clear who reads the telegram. Oh, the Guardian has tripping over themselves to not offend people. The telegraph couldn't give a fuck. They're saying if you earn 100 grand a year, you're the real victim here. The cost of living crisis affects you.

Yeah. It's amazing. They've got articles where it's like a, it'll be a family. Collectively we make 250 grand a year. We now can only go on three holidays as opposed to five. Yeah. I have to hire ski stuff. We can't even own our own ski stuff. Kirst Armistamastam.

Now, Claudius was issuing many edict, supposedly on average about 20 a day. Right. So it's quite Trumpian in that sense. In a sense. Just firing them out. Yes, the slave one is that if a master abandoned a sick slave,

the slave would go free. And if a master killed a slave instead of treating his illness, the master will be brought up on charges of murder. This is disgrace. Woke nonsense. Absolute madness. But it was also funny the idea

What are they doing before? Like, you have a cold. Ah, fucking. Well, yeah. You can't work today. You have to, like, pretend that you're not ill. You'd be terrified. It's the opposite of today where, you know, you get a medal for having long COVID.

Anyway, the other, the next, the funny one is the farty. Get knighted if you have long. Arise, so longest of COVID Shire. You should, the meech, the six will inherit the earth. Anyway, what, he initiated the fart edict. Yeah. Which allows people. to fart in public and it was sparked by concerns over the health risks of holding in

farce. I guess the counterarguments is the health risk of letting out gas. You have to really balance that because it's bad for the internal but if everyone's farting it can be bad for the external and this is before the Protestant Catholic split which really resolves that. It's true. Protestant I hold it in. It's my relationship with my own fart. Catholics let it all out the whole place stinks and no one works. Yeah people are dying from passive. Passive meat like me. passive fart inhalation. It's, they should not be allowed

to fart in pubs. There are kids around there. Okay? What have you charged? What have you searched, Charlie? This is, I suppose this is your area of expertise. If you're holding a fart,

it can come out as a burp, unfortunately. That's fascinating. Gas can go both ways. It causes your gut to reabsor some of the trap gas, which then travels to your lungs. But does,

the burp does not smell as bad as the fart, so it is still... Speak for yourself. Oh, what are you saying? Come back to me when you're age 35. I'll call you in the dead of night. Finn, I shouldn't have doubted you. Yeah.

My girlfriend's just turned 30. She's burped. And it smells like a sewer in here. How quickly does the, does the fat, the trapped fart become, because in my head it's like, oh, no, can't go around the way.

Oh, you know. Well, it's got to come out somehow. And also, do you know where farts come out if you don't fart? It's all in your sleep. So it's like, you're like the blue man group in your sleep. It's like,

the musical. Right. It's just, because you think about Queen Elizabeth, who's probably must be one of the greatest holders of farts

of all time. Prosten hero. She is. She's like, you cannot imagine her ever passing gas. No. But that does mean

that when she goes to sleep, it must be a fucking... Well, the separate beds, isn't it? That's why Prince Phillips three doors down. Anyway, yes, Claudius has quite a relaxed attitude

to public flatulence. Right. But we need to get, we are racing, we need to get through this. So supposedly, he greatly expands the number of Roman citizens during his reign

aqueducts infrastructure what's the thing about there's a disaster when he tries to drain a massive lake Lake food food's obsessed with hydraulics He tries to build a map tries to create more agricultural land

by draining a lake so excavates a big drainage tunnel which takes 30,000 workers 11 years to complete but pretty much quickly pretty quickly the tunnel just sort of collapses The success of the harbour, he got cocky, Blair in Kosovo.

You know, one success, hubris. No one to quit, Tony. So the tunnel is opened and the waters are pails of drain and it causes a major tidal wave and everyone has to flee for their lives at the opening of the tunnel. So now, his fourth wife, this is where we start to get into the Nero prequel, because his fourth wife is his aunt. No, his fourth wife is called Agrippina the Younger. who is his niece.

Oh, yeah, so he's Gandying it. He's Gandying it, but much like Gandy, I can't control myself. Whoops, the test failed.

I had sex with my niece. I tried to see if I couldn't. And if that's a crime, it is a crime, Gandy. Are you joking? It's an evunculate marriage. God,

the things we're learning. Yeah, it's amazing this podcast. A vunculate marriage. Isn't it arranged marriage? No, it's an evunculate marriage. I've married my uncle. Okay.

Get married. Evoncula, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I'm a big proponent of an avonculate marriage. So his new wife is... Remember, he's Caligula's uncle. Yes, so he marries Caligula's sister, who's his niece, Agrippina the Younger.

She's 25 years younger than Claudius. I mean, he is an absolute hound dog. Yeah, he's plowing through. Now, she'd be married twice, and she had a son called Nero. Now, she's very politically savage. She came up a lot in the Nero episode. She did. Well, this is where we will tie in, much like Rogue 1, the prequel to Star Wars episode 4.

This now ties into the beginning of our Nero series. This is a real fascinating series for the fans here. Right, Easter egg upon Easter egg. So the couple married publicly in the year 49. So the Roman people view this as incestuous, despite the Senate giving it their approval. for. Now she wants it. Hey? They view it as incestuous. Yes. It is like. Yes, but the Romans, you know, their tolerance of incest is much higher than ours.

Yes. Okay. Avuncant marriages are not what they were. But it wasn't as much as I thought. They're not into incest. I thought they were. But they do think that's dishonorable. Yeah, but it still happens. Fine, fine. It's, you know, it's Schofield. Yes. Unwise, but not illegal. Sure. she obviously wants her son nero to become the next emperor because she's colligula's sister she maybe feels like she's been cheated out of a sort of line of succession

before claudius's own son her new stepson britannicus named after his successful invasion of colchester with some elephants so claudius adopts nero as his own son but he then starts to regret this because he worries that he's not he's neglecting his own son britannicus so as he begins to age

he starts to realize Nero might be a fucking psycho and so he overlooks his own son and he feels remorse about this because Nero is sort of placed as Claudius's successor Because he's older Now Claudius is approaching his sort of mid-60s which is very old for these days

and everyone is anticipating Nero as the next emperor because he'd entered public life when he was only 14 right So Claudius begins to show more favour towards his biological son Britannicus, which infuriates Agrippina, his new wife. He also names them both as joint hairs,

which is you can't do that. So this is where we started the Nero series. He named them both jointaires. Yeah. So you can't do that. No, you've got to pick a team. So Britannicus was about to come of age, which I guess would mean that he would become officially...

Was he older than Nero? Nero was older. Nero was older. interesting that's why Nero has a Ah, okay, right so

Nero is about five years older so on October the 13th 54 Claudius is found dead at

age 63 now supposedly what happens is that Agropina feeds him a plate

of poisoned mushrooms in which he's in cahoots with a eunuch because Claudius's

eunuch taster fed him a poisoned mushroom. But then there's reports that the mushroom didn't work and so Agrippina tasked Claudius's doctor to finish the job

Michael Jackson. Alamathieu Perry, Michael Jackson. So apparently, and this is very kinky, the doctor puts a fucking feather laced with poison down his throat. Damn. That's kind of like, that's 50 shades of grey stuff. Yeah. Don't like that. My gag reflex. I couldn't, yeah,

I can't be doing that. so his last words as he dies 63 is oh dear oh dear i think i've made a mess of myself because he pooed himself as he died which is a fitting end for claudius yeah i think this is lived a remarkable life yeah but at every turn has humiliated himself yes has been a pretty innovative emperor with a lot of things to be proud of but at every single point in his life he's been utterly humiliated he was only ever a year away from either being cuckolded or shitting himself. And he's a sort of tragic figure.

But he's a man off my own heart. Well, he's been kind of rehabilitated now as someone who actually... I think it's revisionism. Well, no, I think it's revisionism to say he actually did a lot of things. And he doesn't get... A lot of boring stuff. A lot of boring stuff. Brown.

It doesn't get the headlines that Caligula and Nero did. Sure. You know, when the history books of our lifetimes are written from 100 years from now, you know, trust will get all the headlines. but below the water the calm, sturdish of brown eating a kick cat

and his rummally thumpus probably knowing him and he's apple crumble probably you know and he's finding it hard because he's got no debt perception anyway

so Agrippina successfully deposes Claudius yet again it's another change of power where it's not peaceful there's an assassination I mean it's just

assassination after assassination it's why the Roman emperors are so great I mean what's interesting is Augustus gets talked about as the greatest politician of all time and stabilising it but after he goes it's a fucking nightmare

like he doesn't set out that need I bring another Labour Party analogy to the fore after Blair goes you know it just the ass falls out of it yeah um so Claudius is given a funeral in the style of Augustus he's interned in the big

augustinian mausoleum and he becomes deified which is like so this is slobbering fucking cerebral palsy kind of like snossy yeah becomes the

god yes a couple of years after he dies the philosopher Seneca writes a biting political satire so he gets Ian Heslop he gets his sloped he gets his slapped his slapped he got Ian his slapped

yeah you can get hitchlapped and he got his slopped the title apococytosis is a pun on the word apotheosis which is the Greek process of becoming a god. This is a pun by basically saying he became a pumpkin.

Which is a savage. And stay down. Have I got news for you? This is as rye a pun as you can do. We should say, have I got news for you is in its third series at this point in the year 54 AD? There's one of Merton's puns right here. Yeah, exactly.

But. Has he become a pumpkin, has he? Live. BX1, 9 o'clock. Apotheosis, the act's becoming, we wouldn't get it. go to pumpkin. Oh, I'm not vying for a pumpkin.

And my father-in-law's lapping it up. Pumpkinification. Lapping it up. Of Claudius. Oh, it's probably genius, this guy. Absolutely genius. Oh, they don't make him like that anymore.

The master. Couldn't say that these days. Yeah, the master. You could call him a pumpkin these days. What do you call them the master? Hey? Do you all right? No, who is it?

No, it's Jack Barry's mom called Mark. as Brickstock, the master. Just to, just mentioned him a story, and she just looked off from the distance and just went, the master.

This is actually sort of Briggs stock get up, actually, this is called stuff. Anyway, now, so the then becomes a myth, right? Claudius becomes kind of written into law. Supposedly,

instead of a glorious assent to Mount Olympus, which is what happened to Augustus and when you become a god, or if you die, he's depicted as the kind of bumbling, physically disabled figure who the gods can't understand because he's suffering

a dribbling you thought about and they're coming to heaven fuck us and then in the story Hercules is approached by the sort of dead Claudius who's trying to get in but Hercules can't understand him

and is quote confused by his strange noises so Claudius gets rejected from heaven after Augustus himself delivers a speech saying how shit he is yeah I mean this just sounds like an all right play though

the narrative ends with him going to the underworld but we think that Seneca's motive was personal revenge because Claudius had exiled Seneca to Corska. So whenever we talk about the Roman world, you know, it's like we've got one source and it's hugely biased and compromised really, but it's an awful lot of fun. But seeing this play out, I'm thinking you couldn't write that nowadays.

No, you couldn't. I mean, it was a different time. Nah. You couldn't call the leader of pumpkin nowadays. I mean, if I call Sadiq Khan, any kind of good, you know. Hands chopped off. Oh, hands chopped off.

Yeah, can't even start the car, let alone drive it. Weirdly, do you remember we did the Greek gods series? Do you remember Hephaestus, the blacksmith, the ugly one? Do you remember that? When was this? Did we not do a patron on Greek gods? I don't think we did. We must have.

There was that massive cow. That's the Norse mythology. Norse one. But one of the gods, here and Zeus, have a chance. child who's born and so ugly we did Roman gods not Greek ones they're the same right yeah but they're the same

so when Hera and Zeus have a kid one of them is born so ugly that she immediately drop kicks her off Mount Olympus oh yes I do remember this hideous guy and then he's the only one who can save her and eventually he becomes the god of blacksmiths but it's basically Claudius

yeah the whole story basically at the end of it all Nero takes power and will you know become another tyrant who supposedly plays the violin while Rome Burns and we had James McCann on the great James McCann to do that. It's a great app. You can find that. And so that's the end of Claudius really. The hipsters choice for Roman Emperor. I guess scores on the doors. Yeah, he's a very unique figure in history. And how, you know, the great unknowns are how

aware, how in on the plot to kill Caligula was he? He's Tom's one scam. He's like, him is a narrative archetype is quite uh i don't know what you'd call him is the underdog the yeah the man who sort of who who understood the people are underestimating him yes and so and maybe weaponized his own disability yes in order to progress yeah it's a very very relevant story to now in politics you see it all the time as you keep the people close you think aren't gonna stabbing the back yeah um so on the patron this week we're talking about uh hercules the 12 labours, that's great stuff. And you can sign up for £3 a month

where there's an army of Claudius's, except they're not weaponising their disability. They're just giving us a proportion of their allowance. Yeah, they're a burden on the state. Yep, and a burden on us as well. Anyway, that's on the Patreon, but if not, we'll see you next week for a brand new topic from all of us here at Finn versus History.

Goodbye. Goodbye.