Fin vs History - I Prefer El Alamein’s Early Stuff (with Pierre Novellie) | Monty vs Rommel (Part 3/4)

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

 Strap in lads, all this sand will send our autism crazy. Monty & Rommel (Part Three) The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor  This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark.     Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh  Chapters: 00:00 - Rude But Correct 07:17 - The Mad PE Teacher 12:40 - Sliced Bread  13:30 - The British Experience  16:51 - Farting In A Lift 19:54 - The Bag’s Run Out 25:54 - The Gay Beret  30:46 - Yes And 35:34 - Ripped Nerds 41:08 - He’s A Gemini  44:35 - No Chill Out Room 47:30 - Hitler’s Aura 52:45 - Just Ignore Him Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit Ancestry.ca slash beginners for details. Terms apply. in Romwell, we are finally joined by one of our most long-trailed guests. Yeah, my God. The phenomenon. Finally, I mean, there's a million things we could get him on to talk about. It was almost choice paralysis. Yes, it was.

What you're going to guess on? Because, I mean, you could talk about nearly anything. And as we will find out, he will talk about all of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were just talking about cattle bolt guns. We were, yeah. We were being schooled on the logistics of a cattle bolt gun. Of a chiguer.

Pierre Navelli, people don't know, one of my oldest friends in comedy. I, one of the greatest stand-ups of certainly our generation and I mean that. And also, card-carrying autists. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And probably you and it's a toss up between you and Fern Brady as to when you got your diagnoses that I went the most like, oh, obvious, yeah, you know. It made so much sense. There was a game with how long before Pierre mentioned the tanks.

Yeah, yeah. There was a game which was how long before Pierre talks about military history in an insanely detailed way. You know, military history better than anyone I know. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. You've met Almerie now.

Okay, fair enough. Yeah, fair enough. But okay, before that. Before him. Before Al's kind of horrifying universe level knowledge of World War II. Also, first debut for jeans on the podcast. You've never had jeans on the show? Yes. I've gone for a kind of Robin Williams character look.

Yes. I'm going to say it's not your fault a lot. They've all laid back. Yeah. But we talked about Monty and Romwell. Now, we, last episode, we got to Rommel had, the first battle of El Alamein. Yeah. I imagine you know all about this. Are you more of a first or second El Alamein guy? A second?

I mean, I just don't know if there's like a hipster tape. Actually, the first. I prefer just earlier stuff. El Mane 1's a lot going for it. So, to recap, Rommel is on meth in the desert. He's pushed the Brits. He's sort of like Johann Croif. He's playing total football with tanks.

He's pushed the Brits all the way back. into Egypt on Operation Zonan Blumer morale is low morale's low that Tobruk has been relieved

finally the Australian rats the rat not my words they've been relieved by the RAF and at the first battle of El Alamein

it's ended in stalemate and now the great hero much as in this series the great autistic hero has arrived to save the Brits because we got a bit lost

We did get lost to it was just too many details about the kind of going back and forth in the desert and you're losing morale at the end of the second episode and we've flown in an autist to save for a own Monty to boost morale

to be rude but correct about things oh god I so wish I had that label was rude but incorrect yeah yeah no it's just rude at the moment I'm just rude really hoping for some kind of label your opinion on Montgomery first before we crack into it or maybe your opinion

on the North African theatre which in my opinion is the important theatre of World War II. Yeah, of course, it's the defining theatre, you'd say. Well, it's the best way to drain the enemy of resources is make them go to the desert for no reason and fart around. Are you aware of a game that we highlighted? You are aware of it. The huge board game.

Did I not bet you on the last episode that he's heard of it? Yeah. It takes 20 years to complete. I want to play this so much. And I could find seven or eight people who would join us. You could find seven or eight people. Easily. Really? Easily now.

Can you name them? I take issue with the idea there are eight people waiting to play the campaign for North Africa over 20 years. So it's a 20 year game and you need to choose your stage of life. Are you thinking like 60 to 80?

Are you thinking, what do you want to be a bit more compisementist? Do you want to be a bit more? Is it 40 to 60? I think you've just got to see it as, you know, this is my life now.

This is my every second Sunday. As long as you do it for a full Sunday. That's going to take 40 years though. no it's every two weeks isn't it no if you met every week it's every two week if you met twice a month he knows

he already knows he knows everything twice a month baby and the problem with the I know in the board game the Italians it's like they need more water and stuff

because they're constantly boiling pasta and things genuinely yeah Christ which is man it's like a fucking it's like a fucking chat GPT

it's crazy yeah they base that on yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah They just came in while I slept, and they... Yes, you have to account

for the evaporation of water more so if you're British because they're using jerry cans rather than drugs. But this theatre... No one's finished it. No one has ever finished it. Really?

Supposedly no one's ever finished it. We shouldn't tell him that because that's... Because also you will do it now for the next 20 years and that is when you'll see if you have any kids, that will be just... Sorry, I was playing the campaign for all that.

Well, they'll just say it's... If you're fighting an actual war, maybe. The worst thing would be playing it for 18 years and then you see on the news someone has finished it. Yes. And you're like two years away. Yeah, 100%.

But also, I don't know what the post-knuck clarity will be like when you finish that game because it'll be like, well, yeah. That's it. 20 years. No, no. Then you make a new one called Barbarossa.

Yeah. And you just have to. You have to have something going. Because I think afterwards where it's like, well, I guess that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Invasion of Sicily.

Yeah. Roll dice to try and seduce the mafia into helping you. Husky. Operation Husky. Or you play a much shorter game, which is just dropping a bomb in Japan. Yeah.

Was that sort of like... It's the opposite. This just takes one turn. There's two turns. Two turns. They thought it would only take one turn. Yeah, they did. It took fucking two.

That fucking another one. Why not? Why not? We're here now. Go on. So, yeah, we're in the desert. And as you say, this, this theater is all about resources. Yeah.

It's the most logistical of the... Yeah. So how do you think... Compared to... You know a lot about World War II. How do you think is this part of World War II? Where does this rank with some of your favorite bits? Is this like B-tier?

A tier. It's, it gets, everything gets overshadowed by Normandy, right? If you're from the West. Right. If you're Russian, you just think that you did it on your own and you don't care about anything anyone else did. So whatever. But D-Day and all the, and saving private Ryan and all the video games. But it is, North Africa is great because you've got like two, a supervillain and a superhero character. It's a spinoff, right? Yeah. Oh, man. And like, the thing that makes it difficult is the to-in-froying. It's exactly what you guys got demoralized. Yeah. And to end-to-end stuff. We've lost. We've lost to brook again. Yeah.

Yeah. It changes hands three times in the course of the war. Absolutely mad. And also it's all basically the only inhabitable bit is a whatever 100 miles a strip.

And everything else is desert. Yeah. And it's, it's horrible to imagine. Like being at 40 degrees and like the best place to be is inside a metal tin. Yeah. It's horrible, horrible.

So after the first battle of El Al-A Main, the hipsters choice, Churchill decides to initiate the... Not everyone's heard of the first battle at L'Aleman, but everyone who has went on to fight the second of... If you were... Hipsters are calling people out, girls call them out for wearing a t-shirt with the first battle of them.

It's because they've primark sells them. Come on, have you even studied the first battle at all right? I'm going around Roth Trade wearing a t-shirt saying first battle with Al-A-Main. And I'm getting nooky. Names three brigades. You best believe. You best believe I'm getting some eighth army tank.

Right? Now, Winston Churchill, after the first Battle of Elamane, institutes the Cairo Purge. Okay? He pushes for a complete overhaul of the leadership. So at this point, it's Ork, who is a repressed homosexual. A gayman.

To use the language of the time. I like saying Gaman, because it sounds like it's a position in the tank. You've got an infantryman. You've got a Gaman. But it also seems like that would be how you pronounce it in the old days. Yeah. Yeah. Gameon.

now his plan is for someone called is it gort to take control but gort right is flying from from london to north africa to take up the role his plane gets shot down because the germans think that churchill's in that plane right so they think they've killed churchill because churchill is going to north africa which he doesn't really need to be doing yeah uh but anyway was there like a churchill wrap around the plane with like a picture of yeah yeah it's a tour bus yeah yeah yeah Churchill posted herself on board a private plane and they thought that's going to be a gault or got got got gets shot down yeah uh which means that and enter monte yeah a difficult man yes but the right man a difficult pint

difficult pint no doubt anti booze yes well yeah that's a very that's as difficult as it gets i'm anti booze and i'm rude yeah yeah you have to pick you can't you have to have both that's true actually to be sober and rude yeah is a real just white knuckling it yeah yeah yeah yeah He sees like a rude guy. He's not like one of those rude for straight people who's just short with you. He'll sit and do a session of being rude. He's not leaving. He'll be rude all night.

He'll keep going. He's the sort of person who follows up a question almost immediately with, well? Yeah. There's a lot of that vibe coming from him. This Friday, the ocean shows you to save us all. The stories are true. The story has just begun.

From Disney, Moana, a Motanoi. Daughter of the chief. Let's save the world. Ready? It's Maui time. Woo! I'm going to eat whatever that is. His name is Haye.

Boats nerd. Disney's Moana. In theaters Friday. Get tickets now. Hello, I'm Dorian Linsky from Origin Story. And I'm Ian Dunn. We're the hosts of a podcast that tries to tell the truth about the political terms that we use today. None of the tribal bullshit, none of the irrationality, none of the hysteria, just accuracy and laughs.

as we try to understand the world around us. We dig into history to tell stories that explain why we are where we are today. And we're very excited that we get to do this on stage as well. And soon we will be doing it at our biggest ever live show. Yeah, on September the 1st in the Union Chapel, London, come join us there for a night of laughs, maybe a few tears, and just a general feeling of moral vindication. There's a link to buy tickets in the show note.

And the good news is if you're a Patreon, you get a fairly substantial discount. So if you've been thinking of signing up, now's a good time. We'll see you then. 13th of August, 42, Monty takes command of the 8th Army. He immediately orders a no withdrawal or write. Don't know fucking leaving. Yeah, yeah. We don't go further back than this line.

He makes everyone burn the pamphlets and instruction booklets on how to retreat in good order. Really? That's nice. But that's why one of his skills is morale boosting, right? Yeah. So like symbolic things are saying like we're definitely going to win. But stuff like that was actually pretty goaded. I think it's such a morale boost for someone to come in and channel the maddest P.E. teacher you had.

Yes. Because that's who you want, I think, in that situation. Wait, is it getting Big Sam in to avoid relegation? It's totally that. It's Mike Bassett Tank Commander. It's what he is. It's totally that. It's 4-4-2.

None of this fucking total football nonsense. We tried it with a European manager. It's too expansive. We don't know the players. Get Sam in. Let's make sure we can survive. It's totally what he does. Up to this point, you've had a bunch of all.

guys with pipes and then a little weird man with a mustache shows up and it's just incredibly rude about how fat and unfit everyone is and makes everyone go on jogs. And it's not nice, but it does make you go, oh, obsessed with fitness. But as we were saying fitness is very different then because the bodies, it didn't look ripped or anything. No. It's just a lot of star jumps, I imagine. So many star jumps. Like sprinting around with a rifle fully above your head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Climbing over a rope and then dropping down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. right yeah yeah trying to desperately turn tinned corned beef into muscle yes but then that is actually it's optimal isn't it because there's no there's no like sugar and stuff like there is now yeah

if you have soup it's just soup it doesn't have glucose in it you might imagine and there's no waste of like excess muscle where it's like well i can lift up this heavy weight and it's like well if it's heavier than your rifle you've wasted your time yeah yeah yeah it's all you need to do we should do we should place this is what we always do pierre is that we place a date with something anything in history that happened before or after I imagine you you'd be very good at this. And it has become a sort of spectator sport where you try and get it as close as possible.

Okay. It doesn't have to be though. You can give it a big cushion. Some people would like the Big Bang. Okay. And like the birth of Greg Wallace, it's like, you know. Do whatever you want. So 13th of August, 1942.

Okay. What's that before? What's that after? Oh, yeah. 13th of August, 1942. Yeah, it can be anything. To be honest, if it shoot from the hit, whatever comes out, it comes out.

Okay. It's after sliced bread. let's have a check for that we'll check that. Send that up to half of slice breast 1928

there we go incredibly late for sliced very very late for sliced I feel I would have come up with that as soon as bread

was invented when was the bread knife invented because was that the 6th of August 28 I'm glad we're onto this because

the reason I know when it's 1983 it took them 30 years to go from bread knife to slice what did what did in the bread

knife before I don't know just talking about talking about Sorry, so it's after sliced bread. Preminuscade. Presidency.

Surely. Yeah, that's lovely. That's a lovely cushion. You were having a sandwich, but the women, thankfully, had their legs covered. So you could enjoy your sliced bread sandwich. 64. 64, Mary Quintz. So sort of like a bell epoch of the Western world, wasn't it?

Slice bread minisket, before all moral values collapsed. Yeah. We had the technology and dignity. Yes, exactly. We still had social conservatism. Because 64 was... Charlie, when was the first divorce laws? I think it's 67.

You know, the miniskirt started... It is a train of events that altered, resulted in the family being... The family unit being shattered. 69. Divorce form act. There you go. No fault concepts.

Just basically mean it was meaningless. Marriage was meaningless. It means nothing anymore. Look at the legs on that woman. I want a divorce. I don't care that my bread's sliced. My whole reality's collapsed. I want to put home if he's slices of bread.

This is all over. It's all over. Now, Monty's arrived. Yes. Mini skirts are not yet a thing. They are introduced but sort of 12 years before Monty dies. And you must imagine. It started his death probably.

I think so. I think he got ill when he saw the first mini skirt. So the conditions when he arrived, you've got sand going up everywhere. The flies, sink holes that would just open up just swallow a vehicle. We got a quote from Monty actually. Find sound of the desert,

infiltrated everything, vehicles, weapons, food and bodily orifices. Said very seriously, I imagine. Sandstorms are stopping the fighting. Scorpions,

spiders. Apparently, they all say in their memoirs flies were the like worst. They're just constant flies. Dead bodies, corn beef, flies.

But then the Australians perform the best in this theater, arguably. That's probably because they're used to this sort of stuff. They got those hats with the corks and stuff.

Yeah, they're built for it. And you're saying to them, it's really hot and you're going to have to be really aggressive. Hang on. Great. What else? Fine.

So Monty's leadership style is the antithesis of Rommels. Romual is improvisational, speed, literally unachshodically. Whereas Monty doesn't really want to attack. Josie Montigno. Lovely. Absolute terrific. Jose Montini. He only wants to attack when he absolutely knows for sure that he's going to win.

Yeah. Which when you put it like that, you're like, well, Well, yeah. Yeah, me too. That's what I'd do. I'd do that. It's mad that that's just being autistic enough to say, no. Yeah.

Not yet. It's like a super... Defer. I was sure, you like to know what the social plan is. It's planet, yeah. Yeah. You want to know who's going to be there. You want to know your escape routes.

Yeah. Which Germans will be there? Which Italians will be there? What kind of weapons will they have? Yeah, I guess you don't want to leave the house unless you know, for sure, you won't be humiliated. Yeah. Exactly. about military history who can go blow for blow.

I need to know that there's at least a couple of... How many Italian paratroopers will be there? That's what I want to know. There was a table of your wedding of Italian paratroopers. That's a slur I use for it. Anyway. And the Allied forces are completely fucked. They're exhausted.

So, and Monty, as we saw when he was in World War I, you know, he has a pretty howering experience. I mean, there's no unhouring World War I experience. Yeah. But he gets shot in the lung. It's quite a British experience, I think, being stuck under another body and just lying there. Lying there. Fine.

Yeah. Yeah. And lying there for like two days. Wait till night time. Yeah. Generally, just waiting for the sun to go down. Hello? Well, I just thinking, I wonder what's happening with that lung of mine.

Yeah. An upper lip has never been so stiff. Yeah. Oh, the stiffest of upper lips. Yeah. And the knobliest of knees. It does also kind of look like my granddad. So I feel a very, a sort of sense of, I don't know, there's a grandfather.

than is to him. So he really cares about human life, which is actually quite rare amongst World War II generals. Is it an empathetic thing or is it a tactical thing? It's hard to know. Yeah, he doesn't strike me as somebody who has much empathy. I think it's a bleeding heart sort of. To waste.

Yes, it's resources. Yeah. The men are resources. And I've spent so long getting them good at cross-country. Yes, yeah. What a shame to lose them. Well, many of them die during cross-country. Yeah, the most dangerous part of being in Monty's army is the training.

God does it train? So many die. So after the first battle of it, Al-Amanian, hipster's choice, Romall plans another offensive entitled Operation Surf. This would be the last big axis offensive of the desert campaign.

And so he basically tries to defeat the 8th Army before Allied reinforcements arrive. Now, can you explain to our thick listeners and ourselves? Yes. What is going on in Crete at this time that's taking resources away? Like, why is the allied, why are we not pouring absolutely everything into the North African?

They're sending a lot of stuff to Greece. Yeah. Because there's lots of stuff going on in Greece at the minute. Churchill had a real boner for the idea of invading up through Greece and Yugoslavia for a while. Or into the German occupied. Soft underbelly. Right. Yeah. He was on a real jag about it for a while and just wouldn't let it lie.

And they thought they could save Greece from the Italians and they almost did. but then like always with the Italians in World War II, they went, we need help suppressing the population. And Germany went, fine, we send people, we'll send someone to pick you up in an Uber. Well, we were saying there's an argument the Italians lose Germany the war

because they delay Barbarossa by six weeks, which ends up being crucial, because the Italians don't have any plan at all. The only thing that Mussolini's thought of is I want to ride bareback on a horse through Cairo and we'll just work the rest out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they surrender immediately.

So you were saying they're just, their main weapons that they're a liability to look after. So I have 100,000 prisoners of war as a nightmare. It's logistics nightmare. It's absolutely insane. Just to be like, we didn't have enough awful beef for us, really. Yeah, yeah. Now we've got to put you somewhere.

And they're not even eating it. No. Because it's not made by my non. That's their punishment. Yeah. Yeah, that's a war crime. You have to eat British food. Yeah.

They torture me. They torture me. He speaks from a tin, please. the slice. So, Romwell's idea is to swing around south through the Qatarra Depression. I don't know if you've struggled

with Qatarra depression at the time. Around the British flank, cut, it's all about swinging around flanks because you have this massive sand sea that's sort of an open... If you can use that, then you can kind of...

Just infinity landmines. Yeah, well, yeah. Just... So both sides put in those landmines and mainly the Germans. Just constant. Yeah. And still now,

Edwin's cute getting blown up. Yeah. Walk to school and just... Bang. Yeah, gone. Up in the air. I mean, that's... I guess it's just...

It seems quite reckless to me, Lang Land. Mine's... You're not really thinking about the future, are you? No, it's too. Because you just lay them down and it's just like,

was this area just fucked up. It's farting a lift and then just leaving. Straight away. It's farting as the door's closed. I don't know where that's going. Fuck you then. Yeah.

It's all it is. It's like a dumb waiter with a fart and a dumb waiter up to the top floor. And Princess Diana's next campaign had she lived was about people who fought on lifts. Was it? Yeah, she was big on that.

Really big on that. You had a big blue ribbon. Anyway, so we get to the Battle of Alam El Haifa. Or Halfer. Is this set you off? You know what that is? Yeah, on the ridge. On the ridge.

Talk us through the Battle of Alam El Halfer. They knew that Ramor was going to do this broadly. Right. Because of the Enigma Code? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We're reading all their post.

Because this is the first time the Enigma Codes come into, proper effect. Is it? I thought that had happened in Battle of Britain somewhat. There's Ultra and then there's Enigma

or the other way around. But what was useful here was they realized the Germans have been getting loads of stuff for ages from the American ambassador. The Italians had broken the code by going into the embassy

in Rome and finding it in a desk or something pathetic. Yeah. And then he'd been telling America all the cool stuff from Cairo and that had been fucking everything up.

They figured that out. And then they always knew when the Germans were sending ships full of fuel, they always knew who was where they always knew i mean it was mad the amount they knew when rummel was back in a spa having little fish eaters yeah and the revisionism about monte because he was obviously he sold himself as a genius yeah and that's the narrative for the first few years and then it slowly when people revisited his his legacy in the 60s they kind of put a lot more into the fact that he just

had the enigma code he basically had the cheat code we will also we will get to why people decide that it wasn't him yeah we'll get to that next episode but he was smart because if if you know that Rommel's coming up for the south. He left it very like empty in the big open shitty bit that is like hard to defend. Yeah. And just covered a ridge overlooking the area with anti-tank guns and tanks and tanks. Yeah, he dug in tanks. So that what like the barrel would stick out. Yeah. And then it would essentially be like an anti-tank gun, but it's a tank. Cover the front and sand bags and wood. Is that going to be cooler to be in the tank if it's covered in sand? Or really hot? After one night, I think, cool. But in the day, you're like, I hate this so much. I hate this so much.

Because the tanks are small. Fuck, man. Yeah. You have to be, they're like jockeys, right? You have to be a certain size to fit in a tank here. Yeah, yeah. But all tiny back in the day one, no? They're all pretty small.

I think it helped. The lack of nutrition. Apart from the head of the SAS, David Sterling was six foot six. Yes. It's been fucking huge about that. It must have been like having an end. Yeah.

I've come to fight the Germans with you. So, this is Monty's first battle in command, 30th of August to the 5th of September. So, yeah, he leaves this kind of trap from around the south. And then they I guess they stumble into it Would you say it's a kill zone?

Yeah Would you say it's a kill zone? Would you say it's a kill zone? I'd say so. Well then I say it's a kill zone. And Rom was not got enough fuel So every time he does anything with tanks He's using up like Yeah

The last bit of petrol Yeah And it has to work and it just doesn't And as we know The bags run out As fucking As we know from the board game You have to plan enough fuel

This is a theatre of war About logistics supplies. Yeah. And his supply line is all the way back to... Tripoli. Yeah. Tripoli.

And we're on the Patreon, which we'll be sticking around for, we're talking about the SAS. By this point, they've become quite effective at disrupting normal supply lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dicking around.

But it was a trial and error, we talked about this on the... Yeah, the start is quite fine. Because it begins with them just jumping out of planes and breaking their legs. Just into a sandstorm basically. Just jumping out of the plane.

You got to work the stuff out. I was so many times. Do you need a parachute. Yes, we do. Turns out we do. It's easy to say with hindsight, that's a bad idea. Not all sacred cows should be slaughtered. Parachutes work.

We're looking at a map now. I imagine Pierre, this is the kind of stuff you've got in your room. Yeah, yeah. You've framed and you're... We're just tattooed all over me like, Bissabreg. Never forget. Do you understand how to read these sorts of things? When I'm reading military history books, I find them quite choppy,

and then I get to things like this, and it will break my head a bit, these charts. I think a box with a cross in it is an infantry regiment, and a box with a cross in a kind of circle is a tank. It's like the shape of a tank from World War I. Oh, yeah, okay, I see, right. And then there's like a thing with a parachute in as parachutists. And then there's a couple of others where I sort of don't really know what the hell about.

But how do you tell what all are the arrows that are moving in, or is it, are you not meant to? I always find them quite hard to read. That is hard. Sometimes they're nice and they do a kind of different color or kind of crosshatching or something. But often, especially if it's like a single day, you just think, okay, I guess I get it. whatever. Yeah. So,

I'd go round. Yeah, they, I'd just go really far. Like, no one's down there. So I'd go all the way down there. Yeah.

I guess they didn't have this. Well, there's, no, but there's, that's what he did. That's what he did. That's the ridge.

You see that, that little line there above the big, the top red line. Yeah, but there's only one, I get most, all of them,

really fast down there. Yeah. And then I come back up. And then I'm a running theme, your retrospective, military. It always seems, Whenever I look at these, it always seems a lot easier.

Yeah. What did you say, just go there? But they're running out of fuel and planes are coming and fucking with them from Malta. Phoebe, can you go on the research and find that image of, I think this, but it has the different countries of the regiments. Because it's quite funny. Because the Greeks are being used. The Greeks are here. Yeah, because it's quite a, which obviously, yeah, look at this.

And I would, if I was, if I was, Rommel, I would, if you that Greek brigade is sort of like the Ardennes-Forest as a sort of break in the Magno line. Yeah. But you can ease it. I mean, that's, I mean, just by us. Why are we lining up? Look at the Greek Brigade. It's just a load of plastic chairs. They're also using the anachronistic South African flag.

Yeah. Which is a bit naughty. Well, hang on, but this is this not during Nautis Africa though? That's a naughty flag, yeah. But Nauty flag wasn't in yet. Oh, okay. Oh, I see. So back then it should have just been like, you know, it's like the naval entrance for union,

Jack in the corner, classic, whatever. That wasn't the flag. That's the apartheid flag. Yeah, yeah, big time. So Phoebe has deliberately chosen an apartheid era. It's fine. It's fine. She's dyslexic. I don't think that counts with flags, though. I think flags are invented to help dyslexia. I think people online when they make these diagrams just choose that flag to minimize the amount of union jacks on the visual field.

So Monty, how does that battle end the Alpha Ridge? Is it sort of Romwell retreats, I imagine? Romwell has to pull back. They lose roughly equal numbers of tanks, but that's the first time that the German tanks haven't just steamrolled everything. So it's seen as like a stalemates slash victory. Have the Sherman's come in yet? Of the American Sherman tanks? Yes, I think so, yeah. I believe so. This is the, even though we did it without the help of the American, not Ben Sherman, Charlie, no, not Ben Sherman. It's not loads of Ben Sherman shirts coming in. And it's like, these guys look good to be fair.

They're good. I can't. I guess it's good for morale. One who brings in Ben Sherman. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what, we were using before. Matilda's, Valentine. Matilda's, what a great. Is these British tanks, right? Those are British, yeah. And the best tanks were the German tanks, but now the Americans have invented a better tank than the Germans, and we're getting those ones. Kind of, yeah.

The Sherman's useful because it's just like fucking Lego. Just stick it together from old bits. And like, if it gets blown up, often the crew survive and just get out the back. I think Bill Burr said, we basically McDonald's them. Yeah, yeah. Which is such a funny. Because that's what they did.

Like, they were McDonald's Russia. Like, they just fucking. A hundred percent. They just built them like a fucking. hamburger. So the Romel said, or a German said, the sand was alive with fire. Every ridge seemed to hold guns waiting for us.

So into a trap, essentially. Romel retreats. And at this point, Monty's reputation is enhanced. Now let's just chat a bit about his kind of look. Because he makes his own, again, it's a part of this aura. He's an influencer. He's very brand away.

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wears a black beret. Big shorts. This is the high point for British big shorts. Big shorts. After this, the shorts get longer. They become trousers and we lose our grip on. We lose something.

The press in World War II plays much bigger role than World War I. You don't really have these sorts of celebrities. It's sort of the birth of this. BlackBerry is armoured divisions. So it's like the tank guys are like, yeah, he's one of ours. Oh, interesting. It's like a kind of nod to them. They get a real kick out of that.

But then, do you know, with the SAS, they started wearing beige berets. But then when they would go back to Cairo after missions, fights would break out because they're all very difficult men and they would get laughed at as being big sissies gaymen's for having white berets and then fights would break out so they had to then go to red berets right yes yeah um it's also like it's such a funny trap yeah to give the maddest toughest men in your military

the gayest hat that starts fights yeah yeah but Monty also with his big shorts had a fly whisk yes I did not know this was I thought I didn't know this was a thing. I presume it's a fly swatter. Yeah. But I imagine this is what the fly swatter originated from. I think the fly whiskers are deterrent

and the fly swatter is a killer. Right, I see. Also, there's an element of, you know, it's just... It's much more... It's trying to swagger out a little bit. I think he's trying to aura farm a little bit here. A horse's tail, yeah,

but it's much more impressive and... But every general chose, like, recognizable thing, like, pattern was always seen with the... Well, I guess, is that just not the normal helmet, I guess. Yeah, but you're not still, it's like a, it's like a helmet. You'd wear like a general's hat as opposed to a service helmet.

And he seemed to be wearing a helmet, wearing a helmet indoors all the time. It always looked like a... Was he autistic as well? He sort of looked like a deliveroo driver picking up McDonald's. He had two pile-handled revolvers on each hip. You got a cowboy. That's pretty cool. That's real Uday Hussein.

Yeah, but Monty and him don't get on. Two difficult men. And I think it's Monty's fault, to be fair. We have to concede. Yeah, but I don't think Monty got on with anyone. No, no. Doesn't seem that way. But he didn't need, he wasn't there to get on with them.

He was there to get a job done. It's very morale boosting to have any general that was willing to do even one thing that a normal soldier would do. There's some German general that would always insist on still having like a infantry issue rifle with it. Yeah. Now, the Desert Air Force plays an increasingly dominant role as well. by the time, Monty wants air supremacy before he will attack at second battle of it. I would as well. Yeah.

Again, it sounds very obvious when he does it. He's like, well, yeah. Perip, I really would like that. But again, this is because the Germans have failed to knock out Malta. Yeah. There, I guess, is Greece too far to be launching air raids? Probably is. Yeah.

But it's being able to rebase stuff, right? Yeah. You can hop from wherever to Malta. to North Africa back again. So there's a big old Malta becomes very important

and it's one of the first things in the game you have to raid Malta. That's one of the first parts of the 100 turns

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wide leg. But also, the Enigma Codes at this point has been cracked by Alan Turing. So, yeah, another autism, British autism, fucking world leading. World leading. Well, it's what wins the war, ultimately, in this theatre. Fucking, yeah.

Not wasting our time funneling these kids into chess matches or something. No. Montenjuring. It's fucking... Yeah. So Andy Cole White York So that means that we can Constantly stop supplies reaching Romul

He runs out Now Romul is absolutely knackered By after L. Halfer This is when he goes back To Germany September 42 Yeah He has been on speed

For 18 months A long time Too long In 40 degrees Yeah Yeah And he's also Now

What his leadership style, right, is that he's very, you know, because he was in World War I as well. And both him and Monty felt in World War I that the top brass were too disconnected. There was two bigger chain of command. Although the Germans whole thing actually was more about improvisational chaos. They were starting that in World War I. Improv. They're an improv truth. Yardant.

Yardons. Snap! The Yardunz doctrine. Yeah. Yeah. They were yardunters. Yeah. But so.

So, Rommel's thing is that he rides in the front line in an armored car with an escort. And sorry, not a South East Asian woman. I mean, a guy with a gun, the opposite of an escort, really. Turns what you're into, I guess. Sorry, every time I think of that, one of the first Gary Delaney jokes I ever heard, fill the escort up with diesel, she died. Anyway, phenomenal joke. So, Rommels fucked.

and but his replacement cannot he tries to mimic Rommel's leadership style so it's a guy called General Gorg Schumer now he's a fat guy sounds fat he sounds fat

George Schumer yeah it's very Augustus gloom sort of name so he's now he has high blood pressure there he is yeah it doesn't look great does he he has high blood pressure and he comes in in 42

and he tries to first thing he does, I think this is maybe, maybe Elamane second battle has started at this point. It's the first day. Yeah. So, so Monty opens with a fucking 10-hour barrage, sorry, 10-hour barrage on the German front lines. And the first instance is Operation Lightfoot. And this is because, as Pierre said, they put so many mines down. Yeah.

So they, do they take their shoes off and try and walk through them? So the mines are mainly anti-tank mines. So if you're, if you're a guy, one set it off. Right, okay, fine. So they creep... It's a lot of a reassuring thing to be told. No, they creep through. We're quite sure, probably.

Yeah, they creep through and they try and disable these mines, I guess, after the bombardment or during it, I don't know. Just after, yeah, I think. But I think a lot of people still die, and it takes a long, long time. But this is where Stuma, Romwell's replacement. He comes to the front line, but he accidentally goes to force into, like,

by the Allied guns. He's not in an armored car. he's just in a Jeep the driver, a commander, gets immediately shot on the head by an anti-tank gun so his head blows,

like collapses, like explodes. His head's gone. He lost his head. He's lost his head. Yeah, he's there just being like, come on. He's not in a first state.

The driver does like a three-point turn immediately tries to get out of there. The force in which he turns means Stuma falls out the car and he's hanging on to the car like this while there's gunfire. He's already red face gets even red- red-faced, high blood pressure.

And he's, He then arrives back behind the lines and he realizes that the general's no longer attached to the car. And then three days later, they find his body in the desert with no bullet wounds, no scratches. He just had a heart attack from stress. Really? Yeah. It's just a fact guy fell out of a car

and had a heart attack. This is a pure farce. Yeah. That's the general. Yeah. So that's Rommel's replacement. Christ. But then it's funny to think that that must be how so many people died in the war. It was also, it was an incredibly, yeah, very stressful place. And if you smoke 80s, a day like everyone did.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's also the idea of the general. We're talking about there's only a couple of generals that stand out in World War II. It's funny just thinking about all these other generals who could not. Yeah, exactly. There's a reason you haven't heard of Schumer.

He's going to a fat guy, fat guy, fat, like, is there, like, does he have a philosophy on military history? We don't really know what Stoomers. He may well have written a book about it. Be as fat as possible. Yeah. And don't wear a seatbelt.

Just drive around. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so this is, This is the first day after the second battle of El Alamein starts, which is, what's the date of that? 23rd of October 42. Right. So, Hitler frantically contacts Rommel,

who is in like a spa town somewhere? Yeah. They love it. He's having a little steam. He's having a sauna in the spot. I guess this would be South Germany. That's pretty unaffected from it. He's doing German healthy things.

He's doing jumping jams. He's in a sauna. He's drinking loads of mineral water. He's in the Grand Budapest Hotel. To be fair, I do want to make a point. I would like to change the film. a little bit.

I do want a point that German 40s wellness if you can strip the politics out of it does look the vibe. One of the many

things that have lost that have been ruined by the nuts that they had a couple of things baby, bath water again. They've kept I want a warm bathwater

it is. Let's not throw anything out. Let's just have a bath. They've kept the cultural enthusiasm for nudity. Yes. Exactly. Something about,

you know, doing jumping jacks in the Alps nude. Yeah. I'm into. Like a chewing gum advert. Yeah.

It's the front of a fucking milkabar. That's why I want to live. And now I'm going to David Lloyd in the basement with flashing lights being shouted out by Tyreek. Maybe the wrong side run the war. What could have been? Anyway, so, yeah, Hitler frantically gets Rommel back to the front lines, even though Rommel has not yet, I guess, what purged himself of 18 months of speed. No, yeah. somehow he gets back pretty quickly

with a few days I think is he yeah I think so but shit's gone down by the time he's back he's missed some big stuff so what's happening at this point we're in the second battle of elamey now which is Stuma has fallen literally

Stummer burst like a big sausage his casing burst his casing burst Germans are the most satisfyingly fat people in the planet Americans there's like a bubbly second fat.

The Pilsner sausage bill. The retinasner. The quickest to draw fat people because it's just that. Slow man. Overlapping circles. Yeah. And there's a shininess of them.

Yes. There's a shin. permanently embarrassed cheeks. A glow. Yeah. It's like a pregnant glow. Yeah. But for fat.

Yeah. Oh, you're glowing. You're glowing. Have you been promoted? Yeah. So Romwell arrives back. Yeah, three days later. He's missed a lot of stuff.

Yeah. So what's happening? The Aussies have taken a whole bunch of little hills. Right. And these are like, these are like dunes. Because it's the desert, yeah, they're like three meters high. So I find this quite hard to visualize the, because it's not like, you know, I can visualize, like you're saying, in Normandy, I can visualize a small French village that I've been to on holiday. Yeah.

When I go there, I can go, right, there's a bell tower, there's a sniper up there. A tank is rolling through. I can see it all happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The cafe chairs are still out there. Yeah. In the desert, I mean, I've never been to the desert, but also it's just, it's just sand, right? It's God on the same.

second day, right? It's like nothing's been put in. That's it. And it's like maximum visibility. Yeah. And it's open. You just imagine a rolling desert leading up to what looks like the horizon, but actually a gentle slope means it's about three meters higher than where you are. And so you're dead. I could just see you. What is, what is like holding a position? How are you saying go and get that hill? There's ridges, right? There's a few like big, big ridges. That are like, oh shit, that's really worth getting. That's like 25 meters high. Right. Above sea level. But yeah, a lot of it is just like our dune was slightly higher so we could just machine gun them. I'm so sorry, Charlie's got an important question.

How thick is sand? Can't you just burrow and be a mole, like, throw, go through the sand? I think it just blows away. This sand apparently is like flower, they say. It's really fine. Right. Like, horrifyingly fine sand. Like flower.

So you can't crawl at all. You can crawl, but they can just see you. They can just see you in there. Yeah. It's not always very deep sand. Yeah, I'd like to see you try crawling up to the front lines and then just see. This is SAS thinking. Yeah.

You know, which before it worked, but how bad? But how thick is the sand? Yeah. These are the questions you have to ask. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Let's borrow in.

Yeah, yeah. Everyone dies. Okay, it didn't work. But now we know. We've got to try things. I think the hills that Aussies take are decent, like, 20 metres high or something. They do pretty well.

And also why I like this theatre of war is that it's probably is the last great hurrah of empire. And it's a, we win this without the American. and there's Australians, there's Indians, as Africans. And it's also, it's men in big short. It's a rainbow coalition. It is the rainbow coalition. Yes. That's what you call.

I am an ally for this rainbow flag. Right. And they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, have, have, have, have learned authority in India. Yes. You know, you know, using the landscape. And also, as we discussed in the SAS series, you have, uh, a regiment called the long range desert group. who were there anyway before the war, yeah, charting the war. , charting the desert. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the whole, the idea of the British Empire being full of scholars who like to

chart data is a secret weapon. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In this, that Rommel doesn't have. Hobbies. Yeah, totally. It's, it's not, it's the same people who now do bouldering. Ripped to nerds. Yeah. Yeah. You've got a master's degree and you just love suffering. Yeah, the rock climbers bodd because they've got the nerd face. They've got rectangle glasses, but they're built like Jesus. Yeah. You meet, you see someone who. looks like an embarrassing geography teacher. He's a sniper who speaks seven languages. This is the magic of the...

Yeah, we have lost something actually, not being at war. So Romul arrives back on the 25th, was it, of October. And from this point, it becomes really grim and attritional. It's, you know, it's Marino against Pep, but he shrunk the pitch. So the Axis communication start to break down because, as you say, Monty has got so many more resources at this point, which is why he's attacked, that he's just draining Rommel

every time the longer about it goes on. Then we get to the phase between the 26 and 31st of October, which gets described as barbaric, where close range artillery are blowing men apart. Men get squashed by tanks. It's just the worst thing you can imagine.

There's a film, is it the same problem of rhyme or Band of Brothers where that happens? Not some, all quite on the Western front. Yeah, that happens in that as well. That's the worst war film I've ever seen in terms of actually what it would be like. Yeah. I don't think I've seen that. You've not seen all quite on the Western front.

The recent one. Oh, the German one. No, I keep trying to suggest it. Amanda keeps saying no. It's amazing. They get really excited to go to war and then they all. Yeah, I do want to see that one. It's very good.

But the snapping, the sound in the film of a man being squashed by a tank is. Their face just like caves it. It's not good. Yeah. it's bad. It's not a nice to be shot. You can ever be smug? I'm not always needed a haircut.

Oh yeah. Well, I'm having a massage. A bit more pressure, actually. Yeah, I like it for them. Yeah. It descends much like the Falklands into kind of fist and knife fighting. Run that small hill jump into trench.

And sandy stuff as well. It's pretty grim. I think directly fighting. someone with your fists or like a hammer or a knife would maybe be the most sad and scary way of going do you think? It's crazy how, you know, this... It's intimate. It's so sad.

This war, like, there's so much artillery, machinery. It's the sort of, in many ways, the peak of industrialized warfare because every war since, people have basically been holding stuff back because it's unfair. Yeah, it's bad. It's just delete country.

Yeah. We're going to reformat. Yeah. Yeah. It's basically the same as playing a video game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, this, like the fact that you would just throw your gun away and then just start fighting a random guy like it's a pub.

You have to pick up a spade and try and chop someone with it. It's crazy. Again, 40 degrees. Yeah. It's just the heat of it. Yeah. Sometimes in tunnels under the ground as well. Yeah.

Fighting, yeah. It's crazy. So, now the Allies are benefiting from the fact that they're pretty close to Cairo and Alexandria. So the supply route's a lot shorter. Yeah. It's a long, long way back. Yes. And Gaddafi is born.

Is he born? 942. 42. Wow. So Gaddafi, for reference, is about four months old. Four months old. There's a four-month Gaddafi amongst all of this. And he's a Gemini, apparently.

He's a Gemini. It makes sense. It all makes sense. Well, yeah, he would be, wouldn't he? Yeah. He would be. He would be. He didn't know what he wanted.

You're Middle Eastern or you African? Yeah. Come on, Guaddafi. Listen, don't get me back on to Gaddafi. I can't. We'll never finish this. We're on the second battle of El Alamein, and we're talking about Gaddafi. You know, people's listening, their prostrates won't handle this. The second November onwards, we get to Operation Supercharge, which is Monty's final offensive.

Big push. This is the decisive phase of El Alamein. This is where basically Romwell gets defeated. Yeah. Across the entire line, everyone's been doing, at the northern bit, that actually matters with the railway and the ports and the bits where you can live. Yeah. So, sorry, when we say at Alamein, we mean a stretch.

of, I don't know, 100 miles? Yeah, at least. At least. It's quite a big stretch. A gap between a depression of sand, which is in hospitable and the coast. Yeah. Right.

And at the very top, the Aussies have made good headway the Highlanders have. But everyone else is kind of taken bits but not cracked it. Right. And Monty takes a bunch of troops out. I think the Kiwis mainly.

And he figures he can remove enough of them to create a new attacking force to do supercharge. How are the Kiwis in battle? For me, I wouldn't trust as much. Justinda Arden, they're just a bit polite.

You know, these are the old Kiwis. Oh, right. Yeah. These are the guys that found Australia to Woke. Right. And found in New Zealand.

Yeah. Yeah. So what happens now, I think, is that they get a, he gets a tank regiment, 150 tanks maybe. And he says, we're going to punch you

through the Axis lines and you should expect 100% casualties. Yes. It's basically a suicide mission. Yeah. And in the end, it's 75% casualties. They lose 120 tanks.

I imagine that means the people in them go as well. Not necessarily. Because we have the show at this point. You can kind of dip out the back if it's starting to burn up or something. Yeah. So this is Brigadier John Curry. Yeah, it's told to that. And so it's basically one last push, a seven hour aerial bombardment, a four-hour artillery barrage.

and... Wait, wait, so this is the Brits going, breaking through the line but that's very unmounty to risk... But nobiz, he goes right with one push and 100% casualties will actually break them.

Okay, so it's quite rare for him to actually do... I guess he picks his moment. There's another armoured regiment behind the one that they think will be wiped out, ready to go. And they basically just look at it and go, look, with all the bombing

and stuff, de-mine as much as you can, but just fucking go for it. Yeah. Charge the Light Brigade sort of stuff. Yeah, and so this is the charge that ultimately gets in behind mind Rommel, which means that Rommel's encircled, which is the sort of death trap, right? Maybe one of that.

Maybe he likes that sort of stuff. Maybe. He's on speed freight, he wants. He's been in Burkheim recovering. I've learned some new stuff. Getting in behind is not that bad, actually. There's no chill out room in the desert, Ronald. There's no chill out room in Burkine either.

You think there is. Because their idea of what a chill out room is being fisted by four men. Yeah. That's not how I like to unwind. That's a break for these guys. Yeah, yeah. now so romwell contacts high command and says we've been our lines have been punched through we're basically surrounded Hitler says victory or death yeah you don't retreat direct order

to romual now Hitler at this time is quite distracted he's got a lot on famously as well he had to have ADHD he did have ADHD he had a sunflower land yard on and starlingrad's happened yeah which is his big he's and also ADHD meds were not invented yet, were they? Were they, Charlie? Elvance and stuff like that. Well, I guess it's Pervetin. The Purveton would be the closest thing too.

Yeah, so I imagine it's quite hard to focus on one thing. So I think it's a new lens. He's, okay, well, you probably should have been taking some of that. So he could focus on multiple fronts. Yeah. But he's also micromanaging Stalin crowds. I don't know if he's doing that by this point. He's hyper-focused on it.

Yes. I know he probably is because this is November. Yeah. So this is where he's based... Can you stop micromanaging me, Hitler? He, he, now, this is great fault. Can you do some space? You're just like, yeah, sort of backseat driving it.

Yeah. The problem is that he then tries to organise an airlift in Stalingrad. I don't know whether this is the right time or there might be later on, which is impossible to see. But this is the trend of the rest of the war. It's that the tilt of the war is happening in North Africa and Barbarossa. The whole first phase of the war happened one way and the whole second phase of the war happened pretty. It's the same way. The turning point is El Alamein.

It is. It is El Alamein. But Hitler, it goes so well, Hitler thinks he's a genius. and then he never backs down. And all of the Nazi failures happen the same way, basically, from here and out. They're gambling on, if we win Stalingrad and the Soviet Union implodes,

then we'll make peace with the Western powers. Right. They're hoping that that's like... Even now, they still think they want Britain to come to the table. Not now. Even out there somewhere now. They think they're a peace.

Incredibly sunburnt German. They're still out there now. Yeah. In the Alps, star jumps of the Alps. Little prune. Yeah. No, they really think, like, once we've demonstrated that and we defeat them in the East, then they'll come to their senses.

The very least they'll leave us alone. Have you watched, I'm sure you have, the new Tom Hanks 20-part series in World War II. No, I haven't seen it. I've started it. It's on Netflix. It's on now TV. Because I've watched a cup of 20-part series of World War II. I wonder what this new 20-part series of World War II is going to tell me about World War II

that the other 20-part series. I thought that. I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, it's a new take. Listen, Amanda was out, and as ever, I watched Band and Brothers again for the fifth time recently. I've watched the World at War twice in the last year. So I was like, you know what, it's a new one, and it's very fast-paced.

Maybe the ending's different. Maybe, maybe. Maybe they win. Maybe they win this time. But it is actually, it's actually very well done. It's, you know, because there's no, there's no veterans in it. Yeah. But no, they just rattle through it and they tell the story.

Badly, brother. Yeah, come on. Look like wet scramble egg. No, it's made for a more kind of online generation, right? So just narratively, it's quite how they choose to do it. So I've only watched the first three episodes. Have they got like KSI doing talking hair? No, Tom Hanks does an opening sort of piece of prose to camera that is very, it's just very good.

Just the writing is very good and he's Tom Hanks. And then also I started watching episode one and then I fucking. I'd obviously watch just all three. I was just having a great time. Drenched and come. Drenched and come. I'm coming everywhere. I'm sorry.

Talk back on the screen. Oh, what do you want to do? You can't leave me. Was it like World War II for Zuma's, or was it actually decent? No. I don't know. Well, I'd be interested in that,

I mean, to tell you nothing really. Well, they're saying things like, he had a lot of aura. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, actually.

It's giving. Yeah. He knife-mogged the essay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's giving genocide. No, he holocaust maxed. He did. But, no, it had, it was. Allegedly.

But, yeah, no, it was good. It's just well done. I mean, it's nothing. I'm watching it's thinking, like, there's nothing I don't really know. Yeah. But it's just presented in a nice way. And they have actually digitally enhanced a lot of footage and photos that I hadn't seen before. Oh, you mean make it Brighter and yeah

Not like AI'd them So it's like no no They're like dancing and doing TikTok And it's not those things you always see Like you see like Monty going like No it's always it's always like people Keep sending me reels of like Hitler's been spotted at a football game

It's just an AI guy In a crowd There's Hitler People keep sending you there Oh yeah The shit we get It's crazy I just showed you a Nazi mother's cross

downstairs Yeah that's true I get loads of shit anyway But I get some shit because they think I'm sort of the soft underbelly to get into you sometimes. Really? They think they'll send me stuff because they assume that you won't respond but they think there's a chance.

He's like, can you be showing Finn this? And of course it'll be just the same Hitler again. It's really important to me that Finn sees this blurry AI rendering of Hitler. They're watching Charlton. They're bleeding out. Please get this to Finn. Right. Anyway, so Hitler says Rom or you to don't retreat.

and this, as we said, Romel's not actually a Nazi, although, yeah, he's one of the more Nazi guys who's ever lived in that he fought for them, but Romilly. He is a Nazi? Yes. But he's also, he's... He's not loyal to Hitler in the way that the

Gering is or other generals are. He's saying he sort of did it with like, no Nazi. No, and firstly, this is the only theatre of war with no war crimes. It's the only theatre with no war crimes in World War II, right? Is it? It's a general. It's the most crickets, the most gentlemanly of the theatres.

The only thing, the closest thing to a war crime actually is the SAS early stuff, where they gun down people. Even that's debatable. Exactly. It's not actually, they're soldiers, so it's not really a war crime. Because I back myself militarily, it is weirdly my instinct, when I was thinking some of the problems here, because I'm always trying to think, what would I do? With the, trying to clear the mind, my first instinct was to get those 100,000 Italian prison of war and make them walk through it. But that would be a war crime. Yeah.

So maybe, it's lucky I wasn't. Yeah. Because my first instinct was war crime. See? You're so quick to judge. It's not as easy. You might say, you know,

because that was... People in glass houses. I would have sorted it out. 100,000 walking in a line. Imagine the fucking noise. Why don't those Italians? Stepping on land. Oh, my Christ.

Anyway, so, Ronald basically ignores Hitler and he retreat to try and save the force. Yeah. Just ignore him. He was on the Italians behind because they don't have any vehicles. Yeah, yeah.

And he's like, yeah, luck, okay. Yeah, the Italians love, I mean, they love surrendering. It would be right here. They love surrendering so much. They don't have any tanks. They're basically World War I force. All they have is plastic kitchens.

It's farcical. It's absolutely farcical. So 3rd November, 42, is the final breakthrough. Rommel's fuel shortages is critical. Ronald then decides, fuck Hitler. We're going, we're going back. Fuck Hitler, man. Fuck him.

Isn't what we talking about? So he chooses to retreat. now so they all begin with drawing westward to Libya to avoid encirclement yeah so I guess it's just all so hard to visualize the tanks have broken through so Monty has started to encircle but I guess the encirclement is such a large area that Romwell can see what's going on and decides yeah yeah over a matter of hours how are they mapping are they mapping with reconnaissance planes yes yeah yeah yeah Rommel's particularly keen on us having a big storch plane fly around and right he often goes up in it.

Right. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So they, and it's the desert, right? So you can just see. It's forageous. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christ. Anyway, so this withdrawal signals Allied victory, and it is the first defeat of German forces in World War II. And the Big Churchill quote. The Big Churchill quote is, before Alamein, we never had a victory. After Alamein, we never had a defeat. Goes hard. Yeah.

Nice. It is the most important theatre of World War II. The Second Battle of Air Force. Alamein it all rests on this yeah the soviet stuff is a side show okay uh the second battle of elamein has been won Monty has come in he's defeated romual romual is now uh in free fall the stage is set for the collapse of access control in north africa in our next episode uh pierre will still be here to go through operation torch monti and romual in italy uh romual's asparagus yep uh he knows what that means course and uh

And the way Romwell meets his end is extraordinary. It's great stuff. And also the stuff Monty says in the 60s is equally a lot of fun. Monty, a lot. He lived too long. He lived too long. He lived too long. Monty lived too long.

I couldn't believe when I saw how long Monty lived. The fact that he's in fucking Thatcher's Britain? No, no. 80? Heath. He's in Wilson's second turn. Callahan, I'm sure. 76. No, he goes 76.

76, right. He should not be living. Wilson's getting pegged by Marcia. Yeah. with Monty in the House of Lords. Anyway, that's on the next episode, which is already on our Patreon, where for three pounds a month,

you can join a community of people who, yeah, will probably... Light-minded individuals. Who will probably play that board game, but if not, we'll see you next time for the conclusion of our epic Monty and Romwell series. Until then, goodbye.

Goodbye. Bye-bye. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair.

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