Fin vs History - Is Chairman Mao The G.O.A.T of Dictators? | The Life of Chairman Mao (Part 1)

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

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I'm here once again with the race show Gould. And today we are discussing the topic, The Life of Chairman Mao. Mao Zedong. Now, you chose this. Yes. And having worked together for about how many years it is on Finn versus the internet,

you know that I cannot resist an accent. Yeah. And I feel like I'm being set up here. Why have we've chosen? This could be the last episode. Well, yeah, I'm just, it's more, it's like exposure therapy. Right.

For you to get over your problems. Or is it to just get over your problems. just get, it's just thin the listeners, the herd. Yeah, but therapists, they say if you're confronting your biggest fears, you should be, if you're scared of snakes, should be in a room of snakes. Is that a defence, though? But if you're trying to stop doing racist accents, we should do a three-hour episode on German Mao Zedong.

So, yeah, you're, I mean, this guy's a fucking, this guy's a fucking maniac. Yeah, I'm a big Mao guy. Yeah. I love Mao. Mao's, he's definitely, he's on the Mount Rushmore of, of, despotic detainters, right? I think he's possibly the goat. That's what, that's maybe the pitch that's slowly going to come out.

Yeah. I'm going to attentively pitch Mao's the goat. Numbers-wise, he blows everyone out of the water. Yeah, I mean, because in sort of like... Arguably, he's playing in an easier league, so it's a bit of stab-adding. Yeah, like, just like the Chinese League. It's like when... Numbers-wise.

Like when Oscar from Chelsea went to the Chinese League and just dominated. Are you saying it's easier for a Chinese dictator to kill Chinese people than it is for European. 100%. Yeah? Way, way, way easier. But even having said that, his number's still. Phenomenal.

Phenomenal. Because I think in kind of pop history terms, Hitler and Stalin is the kind of Messi Ronaldo. Yeah, Hitler, and then it's more like, Hitler's the one everyone knows about, and then you kind of, you grow off a bit, and that's when you kind of get to, like, you're like film bros. You start with like Dark Night and then you find Pulp Fiction. It's a little bit more of a deep cut, you know.

Stalin is when you get to know it, and you think that's kind of like the alt tape, but the real deep card. The real guy is Mao. Mao. Because we don't know much about it. Mao is like Kubrick's director's cut of Space Odyssey. Yeah. And also what I would like to say in Mao's credit,

you know, Hitler burst onto the scene. He did a lot of damage in a couple of years, but he burnt out, you know. Like Michael Owen's hamstrings. Like Michael Owen, right? But Mao, the consistency of that man, he outlived all of them. He did it from the 40s to,

it was up until the late 70s. He was in his 80s and he had dementia. Yeah. And people were still killing themselves because they were terrified of him. So, you know, Joe Biden is like sort of left-of-center president who doesn't know what's going on. So it's kind of, imagine that,

but he's like a totalitarian brutal bloodthirsty dictator. He's a sadist. Yeah, it's terrifying, actually. Yeah, if Hitler had Joe Bidenism, that's what it is. Yeah, because Joe Biden would finish speaking and turn around, go, kill that guy, and that guy, yeah.

Because at least Joe Biden's instincts are just to smell a girl's hair. Do you know what I mean? Because he's not doing loads of damage. Matt was smelling her hair and then pushing her out of window. So this, so we're going to do a whole series on, um, the life of Chairman Mao. Um, because he, so I guess we'll start at the beginning, which is, uh, what, 1893.

Yeah. Um, he's born in rural China in Shao Shan. There's going to be, there's going to be a lot of, um, we're going to listen. You guys listening are just going to have to deal with it, okay? We're going to get a lot wrong. We're going all in. We're going all in. I'm, I'm putting everything on red.

We're not doing phone a friend at any point. No. We're not doing 50-15. I don't have any friends. Weirdly, though, this morning, so I used to live with... Does he shan count? No. This morning, so I used to live with the...

He's British, but his parents are from China. Okay. So I don't know what you call that. But he's called Fung, and he, this morning, he texted me. He called that or did you call him? No, he's called Fung. Okay, fine, right. And he texted me this morning.

I said my name was Phil. I don't know why. It's not Phil Wang. It's not Phil Wang. Fung, no, it's Phil. Finn. Stop. That's what I'm saying.

Chineseifying my name. So, but he texts me as the first time in months. It's not called Kung Fu. It's not called Kung, right? He texts me as the first time in months this morning. I was like, how did, it's as if he knows I'm about to go and do a podcast of Fal-Mau.

Yeah, yeah. What did he say? He just said, I'm in South London a year-round. I said, no, because I'm... I don't speak Chinese. How many times do I have to say this? I don't know what you're saying. So, anyway, we're going.

going all in. I don't actually think it's, uh, it's racially insensitive to attempt accents. I think because, I really? Yeah, I don't think. I think I've made that, I think I've made that quite clear. Why are you saying that like it's news? My point is, I think, a huge article. Apparently Finn doesn't think it's racist to do accents. Shock horror. No, I think, I think, I think trying to hit the Chinese, Shao Shan, trying to go for it. That's fine, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's fine. Because you can't be like Shao Shan. No, that doesn't sound trying to sound right. Well, so I was once, when I was once, when I was into any, my friend, we were in Hungary

and we had a tour by a guy who, like, was, I don't know, Hungarian autism, it's very full on. Right. He had a, he had a fanny pack on, right. That had a amplifier and a little wire to a Britney mic, and he was doing a guided tour. He was like, yes, now we come to the border person river.

Anyway, he was trying to teach his, his whole shtick was about how Hungarian is the hardest language ever, which it is, it's fucked, right? There's a lot of accents going on. It's meant, but it's not, the alphabet's not even close to The Hungarian footballers, like Shaboshlai. Yeah, yeah.

What the fuck's going on there? The greatest footballer ever was, was Anton Shabafasai. Like how hungry are catching strays. Hungarian listeners are like, okay, it's about now. China. It's going to be like China. Five minutes in. Fuck Hungary.

Hungary can fuck off. Right, but he has a whole, his whole schick in the tour was about how Hungarian's the hardest language for foreigners to learn. He was proud of that. so he then was like get us to repeat a phrase and I was trying it and he was like no no no

he said it again and then I did it like the fourth time I did it in a borat voice like but damn manna and he went yeah exactly that was it yeah yeah so my from that was kind of a core memory

for me in terms of accents because I now think if in my head it sounds racist so one autistic tour guide gave you the okay and he gave me the keys to the city no but if it sounds racist in my head

to other people it will sound like I'm trying. Right. Is that your entire career? Yeah. You know when you hear your own voice

and you go, oh, that's not how I think I sound. Yeah. That's my... So anyway. But you listen about, God,

that's a really racist. I've never had that before. But probably not. So... But yeah, there's a lot of places, like the city in China, do you know the city in China,

Ching Chong? Isn't it Chong Ching? Right. It's Chongqing. It's Chongqing. That is one of the biggest cities in the world. A lot of people are now going there. It's quite telling me to be a tourist situation.

And I think that's... I think it was called Ching Chong. And much like coloured people is now people of colour. Right. They've now said it's now Chongqing. But every time I hear Chongqing, I'm just like, you've got to change that. Yeah. Because like you can't...

My friend of mine went to Chongqing. And it's like, you can't... He's saying, where you go? He says Chonging. Excuse me? You can't call Beijing now. That's crazy. You know about the Chongqing Olympics?

No, that's the Olympics in Chongqing this year. But that's that actual name, you know, it's a tough one. But then, listen, one of the forces that Mao feeds on is the foreign influence that China had for centuries before he came to power. And so the idea, I think they're basically holding them, and they're going, no, we know this is a stupid name. We know that you really want to get it wrong and be racist. We're going to keep it because fuck you, we're China.

You know? So Mao was born in the late 1800s, rural peasant farmer. Boxing day, but that means nothing to him because they don't do Christmas. What do they do? So any other day. They do Chinese New Year is the huge thing. But that's the end of January. Yes, but that's their big thing.

That's their big thing. Yeah. So they're going fucking hard. Because New Year's here is a bit fucking of a bit of a let now. It's because you've gone hard on Christmas. Yeah. But for these guys, that's the whole thing. Yeah.

So born December the 26th, 1890. In Shao Shan In a province Shou Shan Shau it's all very So my This is what my ear is telling me Is that

Because it would be racist To say that All forbid Asian East Asia Sounds the same It doesn't Right

Okay good start Chinese is Shashio It's very soft Yeah Japanese It's all this Yeah

And then you move to China Shishan And then you go down to the Dong Dung Dung That's

You know what? Do you know what I mean? It is so nearly racist, but you are correct on all fronts. Thank you. And you are also trying to differentiate. I'm really trying. Because you're not doing a blanket term. You're trying to...

What my ear is picking up as a... And Koreans are... Like, Koreans more like... Well, Korean is a softer Japanese. Yeah. So Japanese... Ha! Ha! ha! Ha! ha!

I don't know what. I don't know what I expected the best evidence to do. Why did you pick this so early on? This is episode five. Right. Do you see why we open with the English Civil War? So, Japanese, they sound the... They sound like they're straining for a shit.

Koreans, the shit, they've had slightly more vegetables. Squid game, right? China, they eat lots of veg. It's very soft. And then sort of into China. Yeah. Dun, dang. It's all...

Have you seen? I have, yeah, yeah. Have you seen that video? of how to name your Asian baby and he throws a column down the stairs I'm sending that to my wife I'm sending that real to my wife anyway so Mao is born

and his mum chucked a column down the stairs and that's how we get Mao Tsitsung Mount Sitzung Now Sitsung is Chinese for brackets he him Yep So yeah they chose his pro pronouns

Because he's quite androgynous looking So he needs to always I mean the hairline gives it away for me Yeah it does Yeah that's a fucking ugly woman It's a weird looking fellow Or a fuck ugly woman But it's still unclear

So it's Mao he him That's why he's always reminding people That he's he him Like evil dictators origin stories What are the links here So his dad was slapping him about That's nearly always His dad's a big cunt

Yeah that's nearly That's Hitler's dad was slapping him about Right yeah I think Stalin's dad was slapping him about That does seem to be a bit of a through line. But also Mao, Mao's mum, they had a lot of infant deaths, which I think was pretty, that's pretty standard. Yeah.

In this time in China. So, sorry, 1893, because obviously the people listen to this are complete morons. What place is this in Chinese history? God no. In world events. 1893, so late 1890s, this is after the invention of the steam engine. Yeah, quite recent. Quite recent.

But before flat pack furniture. fine fine so yeah they probably might not even heard of the steam engine but it exists yes for china yeah this is sort of after rice this is pretty much the only thing i can say for sure before ikea before ikea um so if you said ikea they wouldn't go it's actually okaya they wouldn't know it they wouldn't even know what you're talking about at it at all they go huh yeah yeah um so he's born and his but his mom uh did there something about like she did some ceremony to try and to try and like make sure mao made it through infancy because you never know

how much of this is myth building later don't you know yeah that's true no you're right we should really discount everything we know we clearly we clearly have the authority to discount sources no but just any of the things where it's like they found him underneath a tree and a tiger had raised him it's like yeah that probably didn't happen um so uh yeah his father is a farmer his father is a successful farmer yeah his farmer's like quite like a Thatcherite, right? Yeah. Which is quite interesting.

He said, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. He grew up really poor. He became, in a very poor area, one of the better peasant farmers with a better plot of land. Yes. With three cows as opposed to two, right? But then he was really tough on Mao because he didn't want him growing up spoil. And it's funny the idea of spoiled because I guess if he's doing quite well for there, spoil is like, I don't know, sitting on a chair.

Yeah, yeah. You don't want him to grow up. You fucking bourgeois. It's like Sweet 16. You don't want him to grow up. grow up like bratty and entitled with a soft chair to sit on. He was a smart boy

did well at school loved reading about history polities and stuff. One thing he hated absolutely hated was science, right? Right. He was chucking his bunsen birders out the window. He couldn't stand it. I hate it science to be fair. You and Mao?

Me and Mao. And I think that's because he just, he thinks it's all about what you could see and lived experience. He thinks all this sort of scientific theory stuff is just Bollocks. Absolutely. Can you get a photo of Mao as a young man up? Because young Stalin's hot.

Yeah. Young Stalin is famously hot. Thirstrapped Stalin. Because I wondered, there's a... So young Hitler wasn't hot. Hitler was never hot. So Young Stalin, look at that. It's like Zame Malik.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Look at that hair. Makes sense. Gorgeous. What's young Mao bring to the table? Okay.

It's a sweet-looking boy. Because I would say, yeah, real baby face. Yeah. I would say that possibly one of the reasons that Mao isn't up there in the popular imagination with Hitler and Stalin is because he looks such a chubby funster well he's got real those cheeks you really want to

just go to like Hitler that's fucking terrified yeah yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah you're avoiding that guy oh yeah yeah but Mao it's just joe cho cho cho cho do yeah I wouldn't mind a little Mao Teddy

I reckon he'd hate that he'd absolutely hate that yeah so Mao's got big chubby cheeks and he's always I also think it's probably a Western stereotype of the happy Chinese man that basically means they don't quite appreciate how horrific he was.

So part of the reason that's suppression of his crimes is everyone just thought he was like one of the... He was like a Buddha outside a Chinese restaurant. Yeah, basically. Or like the cat waving like that. Everyone's like oh, he's just a happy, chubby fun guy and he's always smiling in all his photos that he

obviously controls. But then Hitler's just ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! And everyone's like, this guy's chilling out bit. He's so angry. Whereas Mao is so, like, calm, and definitely more of a psycho. Do you think, well, that's a good question. We don't know. We don't know.

We'll find out. But I'm pretty sure. So I think when it says here, early life, attend local schools. He's definitely like cutting up bats and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's starting COVID. Yeah, and he's doing that. He's fucked a few pangolins, I reckon.

Yeah, all right, but he's cutting up things. He reads a lot. That's the main thing about Mao, isn't it? He's always in his room reading. Yeah. And his dad's like, are you a queer? Yeah, his dad thinks he's queer.

Look at those cheekbones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You read two books, you'd probably be queer. But it's a, it's a, basically everyone's peasants, right? Yeah. I mean, and there's an emperor. So to place it, China is in its, like, lowest ebb historically for a long, long time. This was coming just after their century.

Well, now? No, at this point. In the early 1900s? Yeah. Right, so I would say, I don't want to, spoiler alert, but I'd say it's just low eye mouth to low end for the next hundred years. But there's the century of humiliation, you know, about all of that? Yes, so the context to which Mao comes in is that China is like one of the most,

the oldest nation in the world probably continuity-wise. Like you go back in China 5,000 years, and there's a continuity between modern China and old China, which you don't really have, maybe in India, but you don't really have that anywhere else. Like, for example, the Greeks, you're like, that's an old civilization. you go back there's no continuity between the fat guy in the chair and the guy in the statue, right? They're a different type of people. It's changed because of, you know.

I'd say Greece stopped changing 2,000 years ago. So China is the oldest nation. It's been the most powerful nation, ups and downs, but it's been at its real low when the Brits got them fucked on opium during the opening wars. And what they referred to now as the century of humiliation, which the 1800s. Right.

So they've, even though they're, And old people who have at times been number one up and down, they've had their worst air because we got them all fucked an opium, which is something I'm very scared about now because the century humiliation is a huge thing that Shishiming still talks about. It's in the cultural memory. Yeah.

And they're now getting us fucked on TikTok. Yeah. And they haven't been like aggressively rude to us, but once they've taken over, I think we're one of the first to go. We're going to get punished. I'd say TikTok is the new opium and that is exactly what they're doing. Oh, that's, yeah. Is they're just rotting our brains?

Well, do you think we'll look back at this is our century of humiliation? Yeah, definitely, definitely. Oh, fully, 100%. Everyone's just dancing with it. It's all the families dance. It's the families and then these are the cultural centre. We need a cultural revolution. We need to kill all the dancing families.

So what, they look back at the opium dens in like Shanghai. And that's our century of humiliation. We're going to look back at the family on top. That was our century. Yeah, I think so, definitely. I think they've just reversed it. I think it's genius. Yes. Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of How to Fail. It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right. And what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better? Each week, my guests share three failures, sparking intimate, thought-provoking and funny conversations. You'll hear from a diverse range of voices, sharing what they've learned through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Original podcast. Listen now, where you're a show.

wherever you get your podcasts. Anyway, so, yeah. So they're at their weakest, which is what the China that Mao enters, is a very different China. Just to give a bit, so the opium wars, we'll probably do an episode on it,

but Britain is in its sort of imperial pomp. It's like a global mafia boss, right? It's basically getting opium from Afghanistan and what's then the British Raj, and then it's moving it to China, selling it, and it makes, that's how it gets Hong Kong, basically? Basically, yeah.

Well, it was more, Or, like a lot of the worst atrocities from the Brits, it's when we don't get the tea we want. Yes. So China tried a strong arm Britain. So we swapped heroin for tea? Yeah. Christ, that's a bad deal.

No, we were giving silver for tea because we need lots of tea to keep everyone happy at home because everyone's just, holy fucking my life. Don't even speak to me until I've had my tea. Remember, now tea's so easy to get. Yeah. It's PG tips. Yeah.

You just think that's a given. Yeah. But imagine it was a rare commodity. Imagine all those British people gathering at the docks. Yeah. No, I love that fucking nice. Yeah, no, terrifying. Because you're assuming it's a privilege now.

Yeah, yeah. But if no one has it, they're going, everyone's petition. You know how like in Israel the people talking about the hostages, free the hostages. It's that sort of level. There's tea in the tunnels. They're in the tunnels. We need to get our tea. Yeah.

And I think one Chinese emperor tried to strong arm and say, like, I want a better price for the tea we're giving you. And so then we just started selling opium and just, they all got addicted. Like, fuck silver, check this shit out. And then, yeah, that's how we got Hong Kong. So, anyway, but they're, they're annoyed by this when Mao's born. Yeah. And so... It's more that they just don't really...

They don't have a lot of a stake at the moment. It's very third world at this point. Yeah. Globally. They have industrialisation. It's completely passed them by. Japan's on the rise. Yes.

It's just a huge country of peasant farmers mainly. Yes. That's sort of the only... And like four cities, but they're all junked out and opium. The four cities are like 70s, New York. And they're like, it can't possibly get worse. Well, let's look. Hold my rice wine.

Hold my Sing Tao. It's going to get worse. So, uh, right, he's inspired by the 1911 Qinghai revolution, which ended the Qing, the Qing Dynasty. What is the Shanghai Revolution? Do you know about that at all? No. No idea.

Is that Chang Kai Shek? Yes, maybe. Now, people who've listened to every episode of this podcast will know that in my third year at university, I did do a unit on late 19th century, early 20th century, Chinese history, and I made up names and dates because I would fancy to go and didn't really want to be there. And it was incredibly boring. What was the, can you look up the Shanghai Revolution? That is, yeah.

Yes, so this is the overthrow of the emperor. So there's been emperors for thousands of years. And get a photo off of an emperor. An emperor in my head has got big old walrus mustache. big hairy moustache and sort of like a nice hat oh no the final chinese emperor is a fascinating story though yeah so this is the mod this is the last one but the i know the emperor you're thinking of yeah and we'll get photos of those ones because we don't even need to see them you've already this guy's the story of the last emperor i think that guy hot desks in hoxton his glasses

so the last emperor um basically he was like six years old when all the revolution was kicking off That's what I mean. That guy's not hot with that'skin. That guy's almost like ceramic. He's on a ceramic frog in my nan's living room. Yeah, I mean, this guy, I'd like him occasionally. I feel like I would have to be like, can you stop giving me wisdom? Yeah, yeah, just one second.

Can we just have a normal chat? Can we have a laugh? The snake that does not. No, no, stop, stop talking about snakes. Just do you want to pint? Like once a year. Do you want to pint? It's my round.

snake who does not drink first. No, fuck off. Right. But you not know about the last evera? There's that film by Bertolucci about the... I didn't go to film school. I went to proper university. But it's basically like...

I'm the one... I'm fucking... I'm anchoring this podcast. So I'm the one that actually knows about history. So he was like six years old. Is he called... Sorry, is he called Pooey? Just the last emperor of it, pooey.

And that's why he had to go. Yeah, that is. Anyway, sorry, you were saying So he was raised as an emperor with all of the trimmings of growing up, so in the forbidden city a life of luxury, right? I've been to the place.

And then either this revolution or the Chinese Communist Revolution, whatever one kicked out the emperors from the city. Probably was this one. I think it was this one. Yeah. So they kicked him out. Yeah. And so he, because no information

really came into the forbidden city, right? They had no Wi-Fi in there. And they didn't really know what was going on. The postal address was just the forbidden city. If I can't go in there, can I? Yeah. So delivery was always a nightmare because you had to write like a long note.

Call me, call me when you get there. You're at what gate? Oh, fuck. That's literally a mile away. But then when the revolution happened, he gets turned into a normal citizen, right? They don't kill him, but they just make him a normal citizen.

Right. And then he becomes like a gardener for the rest of his life. Really? And like a pretty like peaceful sound guy who grew up for the first like 14 years. he was being bathed by maids and stuff and then just became a normal guy for the last 50 years.

I don't know if he was the gardener or the forbidden city he might have just, but he just became a like a normal guy. So the Shinhai Revolution 1911 They finally find their way in. They finally get into the city. The front, they leave the front door unlocked and they get in and they get rid of the Qing dynasty

and this establishes the Republic of China so it's a nationalist takeover. So like, yeah, right wing, like modern-ish. Yeah, so I guess it's... Take that fucking hat off. Yeah. Put this hat on.

Put this hat on. Right. It's a French Revolution, but it's China. Yeah. Basically. This is when basically the imperial dynasty stops, and now the next 50 years will be defined by battle between nationalists and communists, which is the same in the rest of the world, really, in this part of the 20th century.

But it's just like the size of China means that it's always... China. We haven't done it yet. China. It means it's so hard to kind of conceptualise. It's a big country. It's a big country. China is a big country.

And it feels like the armies are moving about. Great people. Lovely rise. Sorry. So, yeah, Chiang Kai Shek was a founding member of the KMT, which is the Kuomintang. Okay. And that's one of the national parties. Fuck it, who cares. What happens next?

Mao. So he's inspired by this, or this awakens him. And he is right there at the beginning, 1921, he found the Chinese Communist Party. But at the time, it's like, I guess it's in the, because of the Russian Revolution and that stuff's going on. Yes, the Russian Revolution is 17. 17, yeah. And Russia is China's neighbour, let's we forget. Yeah. Christ, wouldn't want to live on that street. Yeah.

I feel bad for Mongolia. My God, yeah. Fucking hell. Either side. Cunts to the left of me. It's the most vastly populated country in the world. No wonder. Yeah.

You're fucking left. So the things my neighbours do to cabbage on both sides is horrific. Yeah, but I mean, Mongolia is like the worst case of being a third wheeler. Yes, it is. You're in that couple who, no, what is this? It's going on a date. Not with the couple who are over lovey-dovey, the ones he just won't stop arguing. Yeah.

And they need to break up. And then you're just kind of awkwardly sat there. So he found the Chinese Communist Party, which is kind of mad that he then is the Communist Party for 60 years. Co-found. So I think he was part of the, you know, because he wasn't like the big dog at the beginning. No, he's one of the boys. He's one of the boys.

Right. So basically he is a, he's a well-read, spoiled little gay farmer's boy. And he's a he-him, Mao He-Him. Mao He-Hing. And he's inspired by the uprising of the nationalists. And it felt like this Civil War wasn't, it could have gone either way, right?

So let's paint a picture because obviously the 20s in Berlin are, you know, celebrated as a very kind of fucky-y-type. everyone's fucking everyone's in cabarets burlese the chinese civil chinese 20s are not like this no one's no one's fucking uh because everyone's everyone's dying i think um the chinese civil war begins on the first it's not very great gaps be the the 20s here no no no no swinging at all no one's swinging the music's all bridges yeah they're hanging they're being litched um so but because it's not because it's a country's got no infrastructure yeah so it's it It goes on for fucking ages.

This is what I mean. Because no one can get anywhere. This period because normally it's a small map and you can see people moving around. But this, they don't meet for like three years because they'll just keep, it'll spend like a year getting to one side of the country. You're like, what do you mean they're not here?

Yeah, yeah. I guess we'll go back there. Where they go? There's a revolution on. It's a game of snake. Yeah, they're playing snake. Well, Mal was born in the year of the snake. That's a fact.

That's a fact I learned. That's pretty good. Yeah. I don't know what that means. What is the year of the snake? When it's just, Chinese year of the whatever. What year were you born in? I was 1990.

The year communism fell. I think that makes sense, isn't it? The walls just come down. The walls come down. I come out. You were inside the wall. Yeah. I was born too late.

I would have loved to bash some comedies. That would have been really fun. Well, I'd be bashing the wall down. Yeah, yeah. The Chinese year of the animal first year. I know this, but what is the... Oh, so similar traits to the animals that year. Right.

So he's a snake. He's a bit of a snake. He's a big snake. He's a big old boy. The big snake who likes fucking. Yeah, I guess he's not the most underhand guy. So, hang on. Because like a snake is someone who's just in the shadows.

Like, he's pretty... Yeah, he's pretty out of the way about it. And also towards the end, so in this sort of 60s, the image that we all know of Mao when he's a big, big guy, big boy. He looks like a snake that's just eating a goat. Yeah. So he's a big belly. He's a python.

Or was it? Anaconda. Yeah. I think I'm the year of the bull. Really? Yeah. I think that's giving you a love for a lot of credit. I went to the school I went to.

There was lots of Chinese students. I'm your horse. Yeah. Big cock. Big strong horse cock. That's me. Big rock. If I was red Indian, I'm going to call little big red cock.

Little big red cock. You've always got posh girls on your back. Yeah. Always got poskos on my back. And eventually, I'll be made into glue. So, what year were you born? I was born in 1997. 97. Christ.

When we gave back Hong Kong, the end of the British Empire. There you go, that makes sense. Book ended perfectly. Ox. You're a worker. No, you're an ox. Ox is very worse. You're dragging things.

Oh, come on, yeah. There's also, within that, there's the year of the pig, right? There's also the year of the dragon. It's like, can we make it fair? You can't have some people born in the year of the dragon? dragon and then something more in the year of the pig. If a girl was born

the year of the pig, is that just straight away the parents are like, well, she's not again fucking marriage. In the bin, in the river. In the river.

She was in there anyway. Yeah, if we're going to have a girl, she can't be fat with the one child policy. Exactly. Yeah. So we have to wait to conceive her

until the year of the hot, the hot fox. Year of the Milf. Born in the year of the milf. So anyway, so he's born. He's a snake. Yeah.

He's a python. Civil War starts 1927, and this is when the Communist Party has become enough of a force. Yeah. And they're being funded by Russia, I think. Sure. I found this bit really hard to understand. Yeah. This 10 years is a really tricky one because it just takes too long and seemingly four bullet points happen in 10 years.

In 10 years. Yeah. So, oh, here we go. Is it punch in? Spiradic battles as the CCP built its rural base. Right. So you can't have one bullet point. That's 10 years.

And it says sporadic battles. That's pretty much it That's what it is But essentially The Communists go to villages And they try and tell people About communism And these people don't really understand

That they are in a country called China Well At this point They're very much the swing state voter Yeah It's the person who's never left his village One tooth Yeah

You know all he knows is chickens That's it Yeah And then a guy with a gun turns up And says Give me your chickens Who can get there first Because he hasn't even

He hasn't even heard an idea yet No. And you're the first idea he's heard. Yeah. So that's kind of like, it's a real scramble for those kind of swing state voters. So these, so he spends 10 years just basically on a tour. He's going through Iowa. He's going, you know, these are the real.

Rural China. Christ. I mean, he's persistent. That's going to be fucking boring. And they didn't have high speed trains at this point. No, all cars. Yeah. So I think it was a lot of just climbing over rocks and that.

Yeah. So, but he builds a rural, I mean, it's. It's like, I guess it's like local councillors, isn't it? You've really just got to knock on doors. Yeah. So he's knocking on doors, but are they doors? What are they? What are they in huts?

Yeah, I think, I think it's more like when you walk through a... Beed curtain. So all these Chinese peasants, they've been traveling to India and they've come back. Right on, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Communist Revolution. Yeah, whatever, it's groovy. Groovy.

So he whips up these peasants and... then again at some point Japan invades China Which is arguably... Okay. So, right, I think I can steer us through this bit. I think what happens is that... It feels like we're going through rural China at the moment

It really does. Wait, was it... Which way do we come from? It's just a desert. And then every now and then someone gives you some rice and goes, oh, you go, who's the fuck are you? It's like a David Lynch film, this rural China. Just...

So, Japan, which is, as you said, is militarising very quickly. On to that. Japan is an autistic guy who's just come out of his mum's basement. Yeah. And he's causing absolute habit. He spent 20 years collecting his catanasaws. Because he's been, for a thousand years, they've been completely isolationist, right? Not speaking to anyone, no mates.

And then they've just decided all at once to become a fucking mega power. Yeah, yeah. And they're looking over at China. China's hooked on opium. Yeah, so now is the time. Japan is like the ultimate in-cell army. Yeah. And they've got in-cell weapons, swords, nunchucks.

Yeah. They're almost too autistic for the Nazis. Yeah, exactly. We better be on their team. I don't want to be behind them. So Japan invades Manchuria in 1931, and they do it with a false flag attack. Okay. Which is they get one of their own boys to bomb a railway.

But they have got a different flag on. They've got the pride flag. What? What's the false flag? Oh, I see, right. You mean, right, yeah. So they erect a pride flag. And again, China's like, what even is a gay person?

I don't know what that is. And then China, anyway, Japan fucking, before you know it, they've just launched into a full-scale invasion of Manchuria on mainland China. And then I think there's something about the communists and the nationalists wanting to work together. Yeah.

I think that Japan invaded in 1937, I believe. No, Manchur is 30. Fine. There you go. Japan did in 31. Okay. False flag event at the Mukden Institute. So what's a false flag?

Yeah, what is a fault? Because you hear about Putin. Yeah, that's, false flag is when you do something. It's I punch you and I go, stop hitting me. You hit me. Now we're at war. Yeah, exactly. I think it's that.

Yeah, so you attack yourself and then blame the other one. Yeah. Right. Stop hitting yourself. Yeah, it's that, I think. False flag incident is a political action that's intended to make it look like someone else is responsible. The goal is to deceive an enemy and gain a military advantage. But people say real fucking.

fucking boring even more boring than us then would say that the second World War actually started in 1937 right well the same people that say that the World War III's already started yeah I hate those people it's like Trump's hit like yeah like the war in Ukraine well the war in Ukraine well World War III already begun

actually yeah those guys those guys are saying I watched this TikTok the other day of um World War World War III is along these lines well three's already began and this is what's going to happen and so Serbia uses the America and Iran start going at each other

Russia goes into like the Baltics and in my head I'm like yeah okay that's one step ahead I can see where they're going Serbia kicks off okay yeah that's a tinderbox blah blah blah and then it goes Britain seeks more territory and invades Ireland and I go no no no no no mate you have got this completely wrong we don't want the bog people anymore

we're out of there we're sorry we fucked up we don't want it anymore we can barely look we like Guinness we think you're fun We're barely holding on to the Scots. We just want to die in peace. Please leave us alone. We're not taking Ireland. You're fucking mad.

Yeah. No country more back hurts than Britain. Britain's fucked. Britain's back is so much pain. Britain just wants to sit down and die quietly. You know when they wheeled Mohammed Ali out for the end of the one of the Olympics? I think they're going to do that for, he's going to fight Jake Paul, I think. But when they've got him out, he's got Parkinson's, doesn't he?

Him coming out. That's what Britain is. That's Britain's now. Britain now. Do you remember all that amazing stuff he did? Well, he's not doing it out. And everyone's watching, like, don't make him do this. Just leave him alone.

Just leave him alone. Oh, yeah, he is. Oh, he's lighting. Oh, he's lighting a camera. I mean, oh, God. There's this Britain on the world stage. Yeah, Britain on the world stage. It's Mohammed Ali shaking, holding the Olympic torch.

And everyone's like, he didn't need to do this. Right. I actually didn't know how bad this Parkinson's was, actually. I just thought he was old. I didn't know he was actually very visibly suffering for Parkinson's. Oh, what, you're feeling bad now? You're thinking bad about that riff? Okay. Yeah. He's really, yeah. Take it off. Put it away. Put it away. Put it away. That was a bit real. Hey, so what did you want to talk about? Well, I want to tell you about Wagovi. Wagovi?

Yeah, Wagoe. What about it? On second thought, I might not be the right person to tell you. Oh, you're not? No, just ask your doctor about Wagoe. Yeah, ask for it by name. Okay. So, why did you? you bring me to the circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wagovi by name. Visit wagovi.combe.combe.com for savings.

Exclusions may apply. Right. So, you want to talk about real, mate. We fucking Chinese Civil War. Yeah, let's get real. So, Japan invades. Mm-hmm. Right. They come over the border.

The nationalists and the communists, they're not working together yet. Okay. So they're basically just seizing territory because there's no defence. And then at some point, and this is the first instance of Mao's skill for branding. Well, yeah, he's like,

he would be a great advertiser back in the day. The reason why all the images, the reason why he looks so cuddly. Yeah. Is because he's like a girl going out on a night out, getting a boyfriend's taking pictures of her. Take a picture.

Let me see. No, delete that. Delete that. Stand up. Stand up. Not from below. Never from below. You know, just like 40 minutes.

Mao's side on like this. Looking, no, I hate all of these. Yeah, delete. Oh my God. So, like, when you go on holiday and you're on the beach and there's some poor con with his girlfriend's phone and his girlfriend's just stood in the sea like, yeah, and he's just like, fuck this. That's everyone else that's got his party to Mao.

That's the country of China and the girl is Mao. Mao's posing for paintings. Yeah. And then being like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Make me shine it. Shineier and happier. So, Mao then. It's all about branding.

But basically, as we've said, said this bit, very boring, who the fuck knows or really cares. What happens is that he's defeat, the communists are about to be defeated by the nationalists in the mid-30s, and Mao does a retreat. Yes. But what he calls it is the long march. I mean, this is when Mao's genius really starts coming through.

We're not running away. It's sort of like the Dunkirk thing that we've done. Totally. Which is a complete defeat selling it as a victory. Yeah. But this is even more so. This is crazy. So he's basically on his knees.

The whole communists are on. his knees, and then, yeah, they retreat to North West China, but they just call it the Long March to Freedom, is it? The Long Walk to Freedom is, the Long Walk to Freedom is Mandela, isn't it? I think it's just the Long March. Long Walk to Freedom. Yeah.

This is the Long March, and they basically walk across China for years. Which takes ages. To fucking ages. And it must be really boring because there's nothing there. And then they find this place in Northwest China called Gunan. It's called Yanan. It's called Yanan. Which is a kind of like.

Like, they go to your nan's house. Yeah, they go to your nan's house. She's like, oh, come out, you're right, you're right, lad. You're like, lad. We love our nan. So they're kind of up in the mountains. They're sort of like Al-Qaeda up in the mountains. Yeah, yeah.

They build like a base there. Toribora. Yeah. And there they start basically developing their ideas. So the march lasted over a year involved around 100,000 soldiers, despite facing famine disease and constant attacks. The communist led by Mao eventually reached the northern province of Shanshi. Yeah.

So, but in Yanan, they basically started. start a commune, right? But it's not the kind of chilled communes you'd see in, like, California. No, no, no. It's not guys with white dreadlocks singing kumbaya. He's a bit of Manson family. Yeah, it's a lot more, yeah, it's very intense. Yeah.

There's a lot, anyone, there's a lot of people being put to death. Like, a lot of young people go there because they're excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it sucks. Yeah. And if they want to lead, then they get brutally killed. And Mao starts showing his psychotics side here. Yeah, because doesn't, doesn't Mal,

be like, oh, you know, we should all, we should all share our ideas. What do you guys think? And then they say something, he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I reckon you should, we should kill him immediately. That's brilliant, mate. I love all the work you've been doing. Yeah, yeah, kill his family as well. Yeah, yeah.

Have you heard about the way they torture people? Yeah, go on. So, I can't remember what this is called. This is called something to do with Tiger? Anyway, you sat on a bench and you're, with your back to a wall. Yeah. And then they tie your ankles to the bench with like a leather belt. tell a really boring story.

And they tell a really boring story about rural China and you end up killing yourself. And the Mao basically recounts the long walk and everyone he ever saw on the way. And the guy just goes, Gha! Kill me! And then we went through Chongqing

and then we went through Guangzhou and then we stopped for some rice wine in Wuhan and then we went here. No, they place bricks underneath your knees to the point where your knees break. Because it's just like stacking, building a tower. Because I'm out about this.

For some reason it doesn't quite makes sense but I guess there is a amount of bricks you do and you're sitting like this right so your knees are that's quite comfortable flush that's alright this is how I sit at home

that's brilliant and you're like well if you stop there that's quite nice and then they just but your ankles aren't moving and then they're just adding bricks here so it's that

it's that it's that right which is okay well yeah it was comfortable actually no that's all right this is horrible you try to sit like this

I'd like my leg zambh oh oh oh oh yeah that's just a little portrait of the You know what, I'd absolutely hate that. Yeah, I think it's quite bad, by all accounts. But he tortures people, but this is where they, it's meant to be like a, this like a sort of, what's it called,

model village of what he wants trying to be, is your nan. But yeah, and here he develops his ideas, which is kind of, Mao is the biggest proponent of the, Mao takes the idea you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs further than anyone has ever taken it in human history, right? In Mao's head, Mao cannot make an omelette

without killing a thousand chickens. Chairman Mao's omelot involves thousands of dead birds. Yeah. Everyone's like, what's Maoism? It's just, you can't make an omel about breaking a few eggs. That is, that is literally.

And the eggs are Chinese people and the omelette, who cares? He just wants to kill people. He's got motivational quotes all around his room. It's just, you can't make an omel. It's like The Shining. It's just painting all work and low play, but it's omelette eggs.

And I think this is what kind of, when we're having goat conversations, we're talking Hitler, Stalin. This is what, when Mao really comes into his own, is that he actively says, I'll happily kill over half the population to achieve my goals. Yeah, this is a bit, what are your goals to kill over half the population? Well, you probably have to do that then, yeah. There's a story where during the Korean War, or maybe it's the Japan War, I don't know. but as we've said Korea is just a slightly softer

it's Japan who's eaten slightly more fibre one of them is invading and Mao's is commanding a force that's fighting them and his tactic is yeah just keep marching until they run out of bullets because we've got more men than them

and it gets to the point where his son is about to march and Mao goes I'm not changing tactics it's clearly working and he just sends his son to basically just die because he sees people as important as bullets. Which, yeah, I mean, he's taking this a lot too far, but I think the kind of more Asian view of looking at,

like, it's a much more communal view of these things, right? Well, like coast, like co-sleeping. Yes, yeah, exactly. Right. But here it's a lot more about the individual and the kind of like your personal liberties and stuff. And being alive. Yeah.

Yeah. Because like Japanese troops, there's stories of like, for their commanding officers, soldiers would lie down in puddles, so the other one could, to the commanding officer could, I do that on my wife It's only way she can get across

Yeah So this is later on This is in the 50s but yeah Mao essentially I mean do you think that Mao's Goat status has not happened Because there's more Chinese people

And so the numbers look It's hard to get your head around the numbers Yeah I mean I think when we're tolling it up It's like High estimates of just the Great Leap Forward We'll do that next episode That's peak Mao

That's Mao, that's his strong That's 90s Jordan, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah At his highest, it's 55 million Right, and it's somewhere between 20 and 55 million Yeah Hitler's responsible for what, eight Yeah, no, because you're probably,

World War II is probably his fault, right? Yeah, what are we saying? Overall, from around 40 to 70 but again you can't really there's no comprehensive records it's like push cas yeah he's play apparently it's amazing or Pelle

Pelle schools all these goals in Brazil be like there's no fucking or an African footballer George where it's like it doesn't you don't have their birth certificates you have no idea how old they are yeah exactly yeah

anyway we're getting bogged down in the goats in the goats league tables he's at the commune he's at the commune saying everyone this is a new future share as many ideas you like and then anyone who shares an idea he breaks their legs.

He breaks the legs. Yeah, by telling them stories about the long walk, a big walk he went on. He's also, he's, in this commune these are his peak fucking years. Because Mao loves Tang.

Yes, he does. Mao is absolutely... He's with the Tang Dynasty. Yes, no, he hates them. He loves Poon Tang, which is not, again, that's not another character in this story. He loves vagina.

And he loves it till the day he does. He really, it's a consistent thing with Mao. He really believes that he'll just be on a train and he'll just see an attractive woman and say she's going to be one of the right. You're next. And he thinks it keeps in young constantly busting nuts. Well, he writes theories about busting nuts. He's sort of like Andrew Tate in a way.

He also doesn't believe that he knows, he knowingly has STDs and fucks women and gives them STDs. And then somehow they see it as a badge of honor. Yeah. They're like, it's brilliant. Listen, at some point, you have to say, girls, take some responsibility. Like, I get it, patriarchy, but for fuck.

Yeah, but it's like, we're all insecure, right? Everyone's got self-esteem issues, but you can't be wearing someone's SDD as a badge of honour. Don't wear Mao's fucking Chinese AIDS as a badge of honour. He's deliberately giving you Chinese AIDS or whatever. But that's how good he is at branding, that girls are queuing up to get chlamydia from Mao. He's the greatest ad man that's ever lived.

He can turn... Yeah, he's Don Draper in a different era. Different era. So there's this commune and he's got several girls on the go. He's killing people who disagree with him and then... But this whole period, the long march, because communism, you're... It kind of year zero's history.

Certainly Russian communism, Chinese communism. It's more like we're starting again. Everything that happened before is pointless and rubbish. But if you're doing that, you need myths and stuff that you can hang things on, right? So if you have religion, in Christianity, we have the myth of Christ, Jesus.

You can build a whole church around. A long walk. But that's why, because you were year-eering it, they don't have anything else to talk about. So the big myth, if you're going to paint a mural, but it's like you can only do

what happened 10 minutes ago, that means that all of the iconography and the long walk is such a key myth for the building of China still. And like your place as a legend is like how close to the long walk you were. How close to the front you were in the long walk.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. You know, so that's like a really big part. You know, where were you? Right. Yeah, right.

So, but anyway, basically Japan and China have a full-scale war. Mm-hmm. There's, the Japanese. If you were there, you'd have no idea what was going on.

I'd be like, are there, hugh, guys, where are the, where are they? What was that happening over there? Yeah. So it's a civil war,

to my mind. No. So Japan invades China And still to this day They do not get on about this period of history Oh yeah 37 to 45 Yeah

This is a front on the Second World War It's China Japan Never really discussed Because we weren't really doing anything about it If British autistic guys can't paint Something of that in their shed Yes If there's no like tank or playing for them to paint

Then it's not getting brought up Who cares? Who cares? Yeah There's yeah Well it's just cherry trees versus wickshaws Is it? Yeah, exactly Um, so anyway, uh, there's the rape of Nanking, which I think we're going to cover that on the Patreon, because I think just the title will, YouTube will probably have an issue with. But anyway, Japan's trying to fucking hate each other. Right. Still, because of this war. Uh, loads of people dead. And we get to 945, Japan, big bomb, night night. Good night. See you later. Yeah.

Done. Finished. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're done. No more. Lights out. Lights out. Night night. I'm going to shut on the door. Can you leave. open a bit. Night night. Japan. Japan get sent to bed with no supper. No tea for Japan. Nauty Japan. Have a second bomb. I'm done.

And then anime was born. And then anime. And that's the history of Japan. Is that what we're talking about? That's what this episode's about. Isn't it? History of Japan? So,

1945, then basically, after this senseless slaughter, Japan, China for years, there's peace and the Chinese go, right, now we can finally get on back to what we were doing, which is kidding each other.

Yeah. So the Civil War starts again. nationalist versus communists and then it takes it doesn't take long four years maybe and communists dick on the nationalists

right because they've just been waiting pumping ions in that compound right they've been getting stronger and stronger you're getting ripped

yeah and then I don't really know whether they were working together to fight Japan I don't really know I sort of I don't know I find this bit really

this is yeah I mean when you talk about Mao you're sort of skipping this bit to get to the 50s really And the next episode we're going to be talking So the next episode we'll talk about The Great Leap Forward And then, and it may be three parts

He's a big boy He's a big boy Anyway, that episode, if it is two episodes Those episodes are all on the Patreon now You can become a truther And get access to everything at once And a weekly F bonus episode on a Friday Thanks for listening

And I can't imagine I imagine we will have lost some people In the first 10 minutes But either way, we'll see you next time. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few legs. You cannot make an omelet without breaking some listeners, moral boundaries. Good night. See you next week.