Fin vs History - Italy’s Greatest Weapon Is Surrender | Monty vs Rommel (Part 2/4)

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

We've waited twenty years to finish this boardgame. Monty & Rommel (Part Two)   The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor  This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark.     Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh  Chapters: 00:00 - Charlie’s Hiccup 03:33 - The Autistic Boardgame 09:48 - I Stood Up 17:06 - The Baby Fox  21:16 - Operation Sunflower 26:13 -  New Errol Clip! 32:29 -It Was A Different Time 37:35 - A Load Of Sand 42:34 - The Panty Division  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to Finn versus history. I'm with the ratio Gould. And this is part two of the Desert War. Monty v. Rommel, the most crucial moment in World War II. The most crucial front. We have arrived at the Desert War. The turning point of the war. I mean, it is sort of the turning point at the war time-wise.

It's just that's probably what happened at Stalingrad. But it is around the time of the war. Stalingrad is irrelevant. Starlingrad is completely irrelevant to where the war is lost. Yeah, at L. Alamein. At L. Alamein grad. Alamon. To recap, Monty and Rommel are two professional soldiers.

They have fought in World War I, where they have sort of outlined their new... What was that? Sorry, that's a hiccup. Right. Are you going to have hiccups the whole episode? I can't confirm. Right.

As a producer, you cannot have hiccups while we're recording. I don't think I can help that. No, you can't help it. It's not a protected characteristic. Okay, it's not a Martin Luther King's speech, okay? I have a hiccup. You cannot use hiccups as an excuse. A mortgage.

A mortgage. Try to scare him. Yeah. Imagine a mortgage. Imagine being married to a woman. I'd love that. Imagine being married to a woman who just sees your asshole as a poo gutter and not a playground. Sorry.

I don't know what you mean at all there. Come on. You know what I mean? Do you get that, Charlie? No. Your assholes. It's a playground. It's not upset me?

Yeah. Yes, I am. I'm trying to stop you hiccubing. Right. You're going to be so scared. Try to press the hiccups out of me. Yes, I am. No, because you know when you scare someone and they no longer have hiccups.

He tried to do that by you imagining having a future wife who only viewed your asses as a poo gutter and not a playground. And Finn was expecting you to go, I used too many words. I didn't understand why then. We're in the desert, okay? We're in the desert where our assholes are poo gusses and not a playground. Because there's a lot of sand getting involved.

Yes. All right. The bottoms are not... It's lovely. The bottoms are a professional broadcaster. The bottoms are not clean. It's difficult to clean your bottom in the desert front. This is Melbourne Bragg sort of stuff.

Unlike the picnic of the eastern front where bottoms are being white. Easy. Right? Yeah. There is sandy bottoms in the desert. Okay. And these bottoms are Italian, so they're hairy as well. All right.

As I was saying to you before we started recording, I frequently have to cut shit out of my... my dogs matted off. That is my actual dog before you make a joke about my wife. Yeah, I wouldn't. I would write them

for you to say. Yeah, yeah. But you were saying because you're giving your dog away for a week to our producer. And you've said you're going to pre-cut the shit

out of their ass. As a favour. She currently has some dry shit matted into her fur at the back of her ass. If I just gave the dog to our producer, I would be giving

other Charlie. I would be giving her. I would be giving her basically a shit wrapped in fluff. Yeah. Essentially. So you're going to do it pre-cut. Yeah. But seeing as you have to do that anyway,

I was wondering if you could put Charlie in because you're already got the scissors out. While I'm down there. Yeah. I think we could just give Charlie, if we cut some shit out of your ass as well. I don't want you to do that. Okay.

No. You hold on to it like it's some kind of crystal, I imagine. Anyway, we're in the desert, okay? It's September 1940. Italy has invaded Libya. Italy has invaded from Libya into Egypt. They've crossed into British territory.

And the Brits are like, excuse, what the fuck? Now, Italians have nearly quarter of a million men. But again, this is a big number. Huge number.

That's a big force. It's not a big force. No, because they're Italian. And, you know, this is... Practically speaking, five men.

Yes. It's the same as five British men. It's a quarter of a million Italian. or a platoon of Brits, right? The advance has no clear plan. It's a liability. It is. Their main weapon is being a genuine liability.

This is like a public health problem. Well, the key element is surprise, except they've surprised themselves. Oh, right, we're invading, are we? So the advance has no plan and no long-term objective that's not Mussolini riding a horse topless in Cairo. Because the Italian Navy in the Mediterranean

is basically like a song or a bunga-bunga-cruz, right? Because they got the prostitutes onto the boats. Yes. So they were shagging. It was a floating brothel. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, we're going to set sail for Cairo, get the prostitutes on. The prostitutes arrived that went, what were we even doing in the first? I forgot. This is great. Let's just hang out with these guys. Now, what the Italians do is they build a series of camps in the desert, disconnected camps. Yes, this is interesting. This is the difference between the German camps and Italian camps.

There is no sort of infrastructure in between the camps. They're isolated. And they're thinking, right, we've got some times, we're going to really hanker down. So they build really fortified, structured camps. Paster kitchens. But they make them super far from each other, so it's not at all a line. And one of the big things about the North African theatre, okay, about the Desert War is it is probably the most autistic front because nothing grows there.

It's all supplies have to be shipped in. It is a war completely of logistics. And a Patreon sent me. a link to an article of the most autistic board game ever invented it is called

the campaign for North Africa we've got the Wikipedia article up here it was made in 1978 it is a strategic board war game that simulates the entire North African campaign it is considered one of the most complex games ever published

with 10 recommended players an estimated total playtime of 1,500 hours wow it was not tested before release and no one, the game they think has never been completed. Right. So if you just go down, who made it? It's made by Richard. Richard Berg. Oh my God. Oh my God. Richard H. Berg. Sorry, known as the Pope of Wargaming. The winner of the Industry Award for Best Game Design 13 times. This man is, sorry, I should say that's the patron that messaged me, Richard H. Berg. Now, if you scroll up to the actual...

This is a board going too far for Berg, though. He's won all these awards, but this is too much. This is his Stalin grant. Right. So this is the game, right, the gameplay is hilarious. A reviewer said that if you and your group meet for three hours at a time twice a month, you'd wrap up the campaign in 20 years. Right.

But that's longer than the North African world. It has been called the most complex war game ever designed, with a commonly cited example, the Italian troops require additional water supplies to prepare pasta. Review and Nicholas Palmer outlined the actions for one side single turn. As a first step before playing, the player or team must make unit organisation charts for every one of the hundreds of counters on their side.

Then, each turn, they have to plan strategic air missions, raid malta, plan access convoys, raid convoys, distribute stores and consume stores, calculate spillage evaporation of water, and adjust all supply dumps. Keep going. Reorganised units, calculated trition of units short of water and stores,

begin building construction, begin training, rearrange supplies, transport cargo between African ports, bring convoys ashore, deploy Commonwealth fleet, ship repair, plan tactical air mission

if airplanes are fueled, begin air mission, which would involve a side mission of fly-to-air-to-air combat, fireflack, carry-out mission, return-to-base airplane maintenance, place land units all reserve,

move units and a reaction move more units then you get into the combat phase yeah this is right over and start combat

designate each tank and gun as deployed forward or back plot and fire barrages retreat before assault secretly sign all units to anti-armour

or close up assault roles adjust ammunition deploy destroyed tank markers and update unit records to reflect losses

carry out probes and close assaults release reserves move rear trucks begin repair of breakdowns make patrols

repeat all movement a second time repeat all movement a third time. This entire sequence would then be repeated by the other player, which would complete one turn. You know when you're on like a family holiday and you're playing a card game and someone's never played it before? Yeah. I'll explain to you the rule. Imagine trying to explain, right, it's simple. So we play this every year. So it's quite a simple game. Every, every 20 years. We play it every once in a generation. But you know what they say is,

oh, you'll pick up as we go along. Yeah. Just the rules will become obvious. Let's do a practice round. No, you've moved your tank too early. You've not calculated the, water evaporation from the desert. There's even... Wow. That's incredible. There's even a moment where they say that if you're playing as the British, more of your water gets evaporated because you're not using jerry cans, you're using barrels.

I mean, it's the most... And this is what people do for fun. And in the reviews, they say, this is not a game. This is a historic simulation of running a war campaign in the desert. That's absolutely incredible. Anyway, so that's why this theatre is so autistic. It's such an autistic magnet. It's so technical.

It's all logistics. It's all supplies. Ultimately, you could say that is why Monty prevails. Hello, I'm Dorian Linsky from Origin Story. And I'm Ian Dunn. We're the hosts of a podcast that tries to tell the truth about the political terms that we use today. None of the tribal bullshit, none of the irrationality, none of the hysteria, just accuracy. and laughs as we try to understand the world around us.

We dig into history to tell stories that explain why we are, where we are today. And we're very excited that we get to do this on stage as well. And soon we will be doing it at our biggest ever live show. Yeah, on September the 1st in the Union Chapel, London, come join us there for a night of laughs, maybe a few tears, and just a general feeling of moral vindication. There's a link to buy tickets in the show notes. And the good news is if you're a Patreon, you get a fairly substantial discount.

So if you've been thinking of signing up, now's a good time. We'll see you there. So anyway, so the Italians invade, except they don't. They build loads of camps, and the camps aren't connected to each other at all. So even though they're quite fortified, they're not actually... No. They're not mobile at all. They're hunkered down separately.

So basically it's like, let's split up all the forces. Yeah. And so make them have no connection with each other. A quarter of a million men. The British garrison in Egypt has maybe 35. 40,000, something like that. 36,000 troops. So they wait in these camps, the Italians,

until engineers were meant to build this victory road would go along. Oh, so that's still the main thing. That's the most important thing is building the road for the parade. The parade. It's before the Premier League starts, well, let's plan the parade room. Right. Now, the North African theatre is quite unique in there.

It's basically, there is one road going along the coast. Sorry, the Italians do it like the board game. if I was playing it without knowing the rules. Yeah. And you hadn't planned on playing the game. Yeah, if I'm playing it. That's how Italians played it. There should be one person who doesn't know the rules.

Yes. And they play the Italians, yeah. They think they're playing boggles. Well, why don't you just say, hey, they're there. So they build these cabs and then the Brits essentially just pick them off. Yeah. So at the time of the invasion, Commander Earl Archibald Wavel, the golfing commander. he was a man who would be

asked about like a serious situation he'd be like I'm just gonna play a round of golf one's right back to clear it please I just need to I just need to clear my head he needs like a post golf clarity before he could think of it exactly you can't do anything without post golf clarity he had one eye

was character as the old general and you know pompous aristocratic an empire man again what's so great about this series this really this is the empire's last hurrah in that it's men with big shorts who are trained in hot temperatures An imperial

theatre. We're using all the forces, you know, the Australians, the Indians, the Indians to play a part on this. And we beat the Nazis

without the Americans. And then after this, never really, which is, you know, obviously we're around on D-Day. Falklands is just, we're rerunning it.

It's a, you know. Well, as we say, it's battle enactment. It's every 40 years. Yeah. You know, Dunkirk and North Africa.

Yeah. Then it's the Falklands. And then it's the Ty Cove. Yes. Okay. it does get, you know, less. The scale goes down as we go through. Anyway, so Archibald Weibel, the golfing commander, the one-eyed golfer, him and

General Richard O'Connor lead Operation Compass in December 1940, which is a massive counterattack. So it's one road going all along the coast of Libya, which at this time is called Sarenica and Egypt, and then pretty much everything south of, I don't know, pick a town, I don't know, fatty is just inhospitable desert. They have these sand seas, the sea of sand. Right. Where it's like an ocean, you just get lost in the desert. And when we're talking about the SAS, which we'll get into on the Patreon, they

start using the desert, which is part of the reason that they become successful. Because really, it's quite a narrow battlefield. It's very, very, very wise. Because you need to be near the coast because that's where all the supplies are coming from because I don't need to reiterate the game. Before you attack, you need to refuel. You need to account for evaporation. How much more excess water?

This is how Monty wins the war. Anyway, Operation Compass, the Brits pour out of Egypt, and they just one by one pick off these big Italian, essentially garden pasta kitchens. The Allies push Italy back into Libyan territory. 130,000 Italian POWs are taken. That's their main weapon, is having to deal with that many prisoners of war.

Hostages. Yeah. So that are the only people who were. weren't even killed because they gave up. No, no, no, no. There's so many people. If you surrender on mass, you become more of a problem than if you carried on fighting. Of course.

Because now... They can't just kill you. If you look at the amount of in the gameplay of the North African, the Western Desert campaign, you now have to, all their supplies... Keep them alive. You have to keep them alive. It's a fucking nightmare. Where did these prisoners of war get kept?

Because I've always wondered that with, like, massive... It must be keeping them for like the whole war. There's a nightmare. There's like four British bloke's. per 50 Italians? Is there like free range and battery? Well, the Japanese were battery farming prisons. They were.

They just said, don't care. You should not, if you're eating Japanese eggs in the 40s, it's not good stuff. The way they treat them, it was more, we were like human rights. They said, fuck off, basically. So Compass gets halted by the Allies. They decide not to push them further into Libya and out of North Africa. Which is a debated decision. Yes.

This is where it gets very, very interesting. because basically what's happening is that the Italians have also gone into Greece at the end of 1940 but somehow in this kind of like nap derby yeah nap-mogging they finally found a place they got nap-mogged and yet the Italians are that incompetent that they get flummoxed by the Greek resistance Greek resistance and that's not just throwing a plastic chair at the Italians they can't handle that so Now, arguably, you could make the case that Italy, how bad they are, fucks the World War for the Nazis.

Yeah. Because Hitler at this time is planning Operation Barbarossa. That's his big thing. His big thing. He wants to invade in May 41 before the winter comes in Russia, get it done before the winter. However, because the Italians can't even beat the Greeks and have been pushed all the way back out of Egypt. He doesn't care about North Africa.

That's just not... No. He doesn't care about it at all. Mussolini wants to ride topless on a horse. That's his dream. He's like a make-a-wish kid, essentially.

And so Hitler decides that he... Mussolini asks Hitler for help and Hitler agrees in January 41, which then means that... Because he's scared of basically Italy collapsing. And there's another front that he's going to defend. And also the morale boost

that would give to Britain having a win under their belt. So he sends German troops into Greece. They obviously make quite light work of that. I mean, they have done. They're still making like work of the Greece. The Germans are still fucking Greece to this day. Hitler ordered Nazis into Greece in 41 and they've never left.

The fucking booting Yanfarafakis out of the window. Get fuck on. Stand up, get up that chair. My parents have been in, my sister had been in Greece the last two weeks. And every day I got a photo of a plastic chair on its own. Really? Somewhere. Every day, just a feel with a plastic chair in it.

Maybe the economy's on the collapsing. I think it's right. If they're not sitting in the chair, they were empty. I think economies, I think the economy's booming. What, biohacking Greece. Yeah.

Stand up. The Greek Stephen Bartlett. Brian Johnson of Greece. I just, I stood up. It's crazy what you can do when you stand up. It's absolutely amazing. So, Romall is summoned to Berlin to meet with Hitler

in February 1941. And they come up with Operation Zonanblum, Operation Sunflower. What a lovely name for an operation, sunflower. This will be the Germany's intervention in North Africa. They form a new unit, the Deutsche Africa Corps, with Rommel at its head. So Rommel enters Tripoli in February, February 1941, March 1940, something like that. And immediately, what he does is because he knows there's loads of spies. He organizes a parade, but they basically,

do a loop and they just make it look like there's fucking loads of... Right, right. So the British spies get back from right on. Freak them out. The other problem is that the Britain had sent most of the Western Desert Force to Greece in an effort to try and save the Greeks. And also there have been this big old ding-dong in Crete where the Germans, I think that's one of the first paratroop assaults in the war.

And yet they take Crete from the Allies, but quite a cost. There's quite a lot of... We should do an episode about Greek. That's quite interesting. Anyway, Rommel is in North Africa. Operation Sunflower commences on the 24th of March, 1941, even though he'd been told not to do anything. But this is his great skill.

Yeah. He just goes, nah, fuck it. They're weak. So the Allies were expecting a much more cautious German approach. I don't know why at this point in the war. They should have picked up. that genuinely for the last 10 years Germany has been steamrolling in three places

the Germans have the Schwerer Panzer Spie Wagon which is an eight-wheel heavy-armoured car and it's much faster than British cars. Romual's known as the Desert Fox because he would strike... That's propaganda right? Yeah. It's Gerbil stuff right?

Yeah, Gerbil stuff. This is what Romer will make his name. Because also this is beginning in this war unlike World War I, publicity is a huge part. Yes. So all these commanding even the fact that we're talking about them with such personalities, it's partly manufactured.

You all need to have an iconic look, you know, because it's a huge part of the propaganda. It's pet wearing a T-shirt. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. It's just,

give yourself an... 100%. Horns up. Yourself, idiosyncrasies. Yeah. Monty decided to wear a beret. Yes. Monti is a uniform.

Huh? Yeah, you got to pick something that makes you stand out. What would you pick, Charlie? If you're going to be a commander and you wanted to have like an iconic piece of clothing.

Like a bonnet. A bonnet? Like a sick dog. I mean, there's something kind of terrifying. If you are a successful commander. Like a non-no. If you're successful. If you're not, you're just a cunt in a bonnet in the desert.

I guess there's nothing you can wear that makes you look ridiculous if you're a very successful commander. Because everything's terrifying. Look at what we're wearing. We're wearing shorts and a beret. Because I guess if you are as successful as like Romer was in the early total of the war and you have like a dummy in your mouth go, that is terrifying.

Because suddenly it'd be like, the baby fox. The desert baby! Fuck. And he's in a Nazi nappy with a swastika on it. Going, we're right.

We're right, actually. I mean, when we get to Monty, we'll get the next episode. He designs this uniform himself. I might do like denim cutoffs. Yeah. And then like a mesh vest

frayed at the edges. Yeah, exactly. Have like a pink whistle. Yeah. Yeah. Rommel starts, he finds these tank goggles and he wears them

on the bridge of his cap and that becomes his look. Yeah, it's funny. You all have to have pick out your customise your fighter basically but this is very very un-Nazi

isn't it is to kind of he's got individuality which is not really the Nazi way yeah he's not listening to Walters

this is he's Pep he's Croif yeah he starts just seeing gaps in the lines and just going through them and forcing the Brits

to retreat he doesn't engage the Brits like you know he doesn't follow the laws of cricket and go you know town by town he just goes fuck it we'll go around you

will encircle you. Churchill describes Romel in the House of Commons as a daring and skillful opponent, may I say, across the havoc of war, a great general. He's probably the only general that the allies are... Gets as much respect. Yeah, and this is why this theatre of the war is, you know, is cricket. I didn't know, there's also why there's a revisionism about his Nazism. Totally.

Where they're constantly trying to say, yeah, you know, it was actually... But again, he was... He actually had no idea. He was a German military commander. He wasn't a Nazi commander. Sure. Your Honor. No, you couldn't be less Nazi.

No. Listen, if you're using the perspective of everyone's ever lived... The general Nazi Heikman couldn't be less of a Nazi. Of all the Nazis, it's tallest dwarf. Sure. It's the least Nazi Nazi. All right. Now, Operation Sunflower continues into April 41.

It does sound quite special needs, Operation Sunflower. Sunflower Landyard. Yeah. It's like that coffee shop you go to. Yes. That's Operation Sunflower. Every time I go there, it is Operation Sunflower. Will I get a coffee? Who knows?

I might get a banana. Whatever. Operation Sunflower continues. Rapid outflanking of the Allies. This is, again, the ghost division. It would appear unexpectedly behind enemy lines before anyone can react. And it's powered by Purvitin, Nazi speed. As with the Blitzkrieg in the Western Front, they're up for three days, three nights in the desert,

just pounding it through. On the 3rd of April, Allied personnel are pushed back across the Egyptian border. So this is where the ding-dong begins, right? End-to-end stuff. It is end-to-end stuff. And Rommel is in a tank at the front line. Sure. He prefers basically taking initiative over any kind of planning.

Yeah. Which, as we see in the board game, is not how you win. Sure. It's not a game of initiative. It does not reward improv. It's crushing planning. Yeah. Imagine playing a 20-year board game.

What happens if just like a counter gets knocked off? Well, think about the life events that happen over 20 years. You get divorced. You definitely get divorced. Divorce twice. I was having to play it during the divorce. Yeah. The different levels of proceedings, you know.

It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Anyway, so Rommel's also an absolute dog. Of course, because to recap, he married, he got engaged with someone, went somewhere else, knocked someone up, had a kid, went back and married his original one. and then the baby mama killed herself. But then she was called Walberger. Woolberger Stemmer.

So all whales that ends well. Now, Zonan Blumer, Operation Sunflower, the special needs operation, it fails to capture Tobruk. A siege begins on the 10th of April, 1941. Tobruk is basically staffed with Australians. Yeah.

But the Aussies are some of the most fierce fighters of the war, apparently. In the Pacific Theoders as well, they're fucking nuts. Yeah. Because there's not that many of them, but they seem to always... They hold out for something like 200 days,

don't they? How long is it to Stoogh? Can you find out? What is it, Charlie? What are you going to ask? What is this kind of... Are they more likely to be good because we're closer to them

all being kind of prisoners? Is it the closer you get to the start? I mean, I imagine there's a wildness to the Aussies. Especially at the start, which... Oh, I thought, oh, I thought you meant the fact that they're besieged that they kind of like... Oh, we're in jail. Oh, I get it.

That's stupid, if that's what you're saying. No, I'm saying because it's quite a new country. Yes. genetically. Yes, no, I think I would I would support that theory. Yeah, they're tough. You're on or I'd support that theory.

They're tough fuckers. Because this, so what? Australia is sort of colonised early 19th century, right? So 1800s, so what you're saying? Five generations? Yeah, theories. Also, they're white people who, in the heat.

They've been acclimatized to the desert. Mm-hmm. Whites in the desert. Yeah. You know? Angry. Dangerous.

Red. Burnt. Right? There's nothing more racist than a burnt white guy. Sunburnt whites. That's how our most racist. Stay away from the sunburnt whites. Everyone's like, oh God, it's white patterns.

It's red power. That's what you got. He's red power. SPF 50. When was it invented? I'm sure, I'm sure it will track with instances of hate crime. I'm guaranteed. November 2012.

Wow. No. No. No, no. Hang on. Hang on. First developed in the 60s. 60s, right.

But that no, no. That's SPF. When was Suncream invented? 32. By on Australian. So this is, to place this. Yes, we should place this. This is after the invention of Suncream

before the invention of SPF 50. So racism's being moved, but it's still it's in a midpoint. It's an awkward midpoint. It's the beginning of the end for racism. It's the 30s. And the death throws... And then, wait, but you're saying racism ended in the 60s then?

Obviously, obviously. I mean, obviously. It's got a knowledge. Have you seen another recent clip of Earl on us? No, another one. It's an unbelievable clip, but this time he's being interviewed by someone who's... Oh, fuck, we have. The Mandela one.

The Mandela one. We've got to get up. Yeah, let's get up. Yeah, let's get up. Errol Musk talking about Nelson Mandela. We're just checking back in. This is so good. Before you play this, what's fascinating about this version of Errol is the interviewer here is

quite different to the interview before. The interview before is kind of like, oh, that's kind of interesting. This guy's actually calling him out. And it's quite interesting to see a man of such ignorance being called out by facts. It's quite interesting to see how he starts to move. I'd say we're reaching the peak, like, impenetrability of Errol Musk's self-delusions. In that even an aggressive, Paxmanesque interviewer, he's just swatting it away. Like, it's nothing.

Like, this is excellent bowling, and he's just like, plonk. Have you seen that new Wonder Kid of the IPL? No. He's basically smashing bummer around the park. It's terrifying. He's 17. That's Errol Musk in this is. Go, go.

Right. Play it. As far as appressing, the blacks are concerned, that's not true. Every black had work. Blacks had owned their homelands and we were not allowed to buy land in their homelands and white people had more or less the worst

land. Errol, that's just completely incorrect. The homelands were 14% of the total land of South Africa. The vast majority of the land, 86% was black people were forbidden from buying land, which was traditionally their land. I don't understand. This is just the basic understanding of what

apartheid was. As an English-speaking South African, I had absolutely no state in the government. The government, the government is run by the off-caunts group. Yeah, but you could vote. But you could vote. Well, you could vote, but the voting was hopeless, you know. We had elections which we only lost because the numbers were too small for our side.

But black people were not allowed to vote. They were completely excluded from the election process. I want to come back to some of the things that you have said in other interviews. We compared Tommy Robinson to Mandela. Specifically, do you agree with that comparison? Do you think that Tommy Robinson is like Mandela? Well, yes. You know, killed many people with the things that him and his group that, you know, women and children.

When did Mandela kill women and children? But, come on. Well, before they planted various bombs around the country. You know, I don't want to get into that. No, I mean, but I think it's quite important to get into it because you say that, he was guilty of killing women and children, but he was never charged with that. He was charged with something else.

He was charged with sabotage and conspiracy to plan guerrilla warfare against military targets. He was never charged with killing women and children. No, they were actually found guilty. He wasn't found guilty. He admitted to, he pleaded guilty to the act of sabotage and to organizing guerrilla war. warfare. And so there wasn't even, I mean, he actually pleaded guilty. He didn't, he didn't take

an unguilty plea. Well, I was there, you know, so. Well, I was there. So it felt like I was right. What he wants to say is sharp, you fucking nerd. Like, do you give the fuck about stats? You're a fucking nerd. But what's amazing about him is how he's so bored by reality. Yeah. He's kind of being reminded of like, we actually did this. Well, I, I don't want to think that. And it's funny, we bring up Errol Musk is such a meme of person, but historically, if we think about now, in 100 years, how people will look back at 2026, the historic figures, Putin, Trump, probably Musk will be viewed as one of the most historic figures of the last 20, 30 years.

Well, with his AI, Twitter, Trump. Elon, certainly, but Errol is the real. I'm just saying for such a, one of the true historic figures of the age, which you will be remembered. Yes, yeah. The fact that his dad, we've fed him, like, this is of huge, we keep bringing him up, but it is of huge historic importance. I was saying I read a brilliant book on holiday called The Netanyahu's by Josh Cohen,

and it's all about basically Netanyahu's dad, who was a revisionist Zionist, and he is the intellectual foundation for everything Bebeenhanahu's doing. Very interesting, fascinating. In the same way, Errol, look at the dads. Always look at the dads. Always look at your dad. Monty's dad, planning. He proposed to a 14-year-old. Didn't marry until she was 16.

I was at 14. Planned. Planned. He met an 11-year-old, and he went, well, five years of planning. I need to account for the evaporation of water. Okay. Who's May Musk? This is...

Lovely. Fine. His mum's a dietitian, but then Elon Musk is one of the strangest builds of all time. Get Elon Musk's chest. How does one acquire this chest? Yeah, what's going on there? Like, look at that.

I've never seen that build on anyone. I'd kill for that chest. Something's going on. I think he's absolutely ripped. Look at him. A beautiful boxy figure. That's the ideal man, that. He's built like a big shit house.

What are you talking about? The male beauty standard. That's my male beauty standards. I want a thin back and a massive upper chest. No belly. No belly. Huge chest. Massive ribcage.

Small head. The lateral razors he's doing. How has he got? He looks pregnant, but like on his chest, phenomenal. Apparently it's because he's had like a gastric belt or fucking his end he ate through it. And it's gone up. It's warped it.

Phenomenal. So anyway, so the Australians... He looks like he's got a pillow under it, like a jumper. He looks like he's had to have reconstructive surgery after a butt plug has gone through him in an MRI. Hello, it's Andrew Harrison here. Attacks on the American Democratic system, a paramilitary force snatching people off the streets,

moves to politicise the American justice system, and a president indulging in unprecedented corruption. Do you ever think the United States might need a total reboot after Trump has gone? That's what we're looking at in a special three-part series from The Bunker, your daily podcast of News Without the Nonsense. In Fables of the Reconstruction, how to fix the USA, I'll be talking to experts and friends of the bunker to look at if, why, and how the American system could use a total rethink. Search the bunker on your favorite podcast app. Anyway, we need to get back, just to check on on Errol Musk, which is important.

He's the grandfather of the pod. Errol, if you're listening, please do more interviews. We love it. I love it. I'm pleased. We'll get you on the show. Ideally over Zoom. There's something funnier about him over Zoom

because he looks like more of a dad. But also there's a delay and I think he's more in his element over Zoom. No, no, I don't believe that at all. No, I'm in my own. I'm in my own house. I'm in my own house. I say what I want to my own house.

You're on a Zoom call, a live podcast. I don't care. One woman's another woman. The blacks were not depressed. Yeah, you could vote, but they never won who you voted for. So it was pointless. A mental.

Blacks didn't have the vote. Yeah, but no one I voted for one anyway. So it's pointless. So I basically didn't have the vote. It's not outwarks at all. I was oppressed. No, you had the vote. Oh, they didn't win though.

So apartheid was against me. Anyway, a hero, he's on the wall of, friend of the pod. Friend of the pot. Grandfather of the pod. So the rats of Tobruk, the Australians, that's what their name. They're not just calling Australians rats.

They hold the besieged port for 241 days. One of the great sieges, of the war. To Brook. Constant bombardment. So they're called the rats because they hid underground in caves.

In the daytime, they would hide underground while the Germans would shell them and then at night they'd come overground and they'd fight and try and push them back. This, it changes,

how many times has Tobruk change hands in the course of the North Desert? What I mean, Pierre will know this off top of his head. How many times? Three times during World War II. This is also,

so this is, Romulet's height is in the sort of summer, autumn of 1941. Now, Hitler at this point has invaded the Russian front, which is kind of a sort of side quest, really. It's kind of irrelevant, just sort of the grand scheme of the war. But he's sucking more and more troops and resources that way, which is taking a crucial man away from the crux, the most important. This is the big mistake.

It's Hitler's great mistake. is that he prioritises Russia. When it should be prioritising Libya. And again, we must say, why are the Nazis here? It is because, well, they're here because the Italians fucked it. But why the Italians were here is that they, do you know what? I was going to say they want the Sears Canal.

They don't even want that. They want Mussolini to ride on the horse during Cairo. Because they misremembered a history book about Romans, basically. Now, Operation Crusader happens in November 41. and this is under the first commander, Claude Auchenleck, the Orch. I don't know how, if I'm saying that correct. Now, he was a homosexual, we think.

I think a lot of people... And why that is that is the size of his shorts? Yes, he was wearing hot pounds. He could spot a homosexual in the desert campaign very easily in that everyone was in big shorts apart from the general who was in tiny denim cutoffs. And it's so weird about that. weird about that general

he's also wearing high heels when they are you homosexual how did you guess how dare you it's your denim cutoffs that have booty written on your ass got juicy written on the back I'm fighting fire with fire

right it's desert chemsex no so it was rumoured that the orc was let off with a warning from his superiors after a relationship with young Indian boys it's a different time Indian boys lovely but it is one of those

times where it's a slap on the wrist for paedophilia. Can you not... Please. But this is, again, the 40s, you're slapping on the wrist. Yeah. And also, this is what I mean, it's the last spasm of empire, right? Racialized paedophilia. Right.

Young Indian boys. Crazy. It's crazy that that's your thing. Young Indian boys. Why is it crazy that's your thing? It's just crazy to live in a time. There's a lot of young Indian boys listening to this. Really?

Really? A lot of young Indian boys Do this? Yeah. And they'll be hurt that you think it's crazy that you'd They'll be hurt

That it's crazy That you think it's crazy That you'd want to molest A young Indian boy That's not You've completely distorted My words It is

No, it's obvious No, I said To live in a time Right Where you could be slapped On the wrist For racialised paedophilia And I wonder

You said that's worse pitophilia Oh yeah Yeah, I am Yeah, I am Okay Yeah, not to be all woke No, yeah, probably I said my campaign literature

as I'm standing for the Green Party I'm no longer raping it now why I'm no longer talking to Indians about rape is that what you're going to say they just don't listen they just do it all the time

all right it's pointless it's pointless it's pointless I was hit on by a Indian boy at the Russian spa and I just kept calling him brother I just I didn't know what to do

because he was like was a young Indian boy he was quite young yeah he was massaging my kind of was he saying sent ball What was he saying? Send bum.

And he was like massaging my bum. Whoa. Is he in a sooos? No, he just gave it as a kind of freebie. You go to a gay spa? No, there are gay guys there though. Is that a gay spa? Yeah.

Well, there's gay guys everywhere. I think there's more of them in the spa you go to. Yeah. And then I was like, how do I do this? How do I make this not sexy anymore? So I kept calling him brother. And I think that worked. Just get him off.

That feels really good, brother. Just tell him one anecdote about what you did. Sounds quite. last night. That sounds quite gay. Kiss me, brother. That feels really good brother. I'd say, don't say that's,

I'd say, I'd say, brother, ugh. Brother, uh. Yeah, rather than that feels, you touch from my ass feels really good, brother. It did feel really good, I just don't want to do any more. Right.

Just leave it at that. Very polite. Yeah. Thank you, brother. So he, it's under his leadership, right, that the SAS begins, because they're not, they're basically on the back foot the entire time,

the Brits, and that Romwell has cleaned through Libya, into Egypt, and the SAS is ultimately born out of some very frustrated top-ranking soldiers who are in action. And we're not on the front foot because Orch is just saying we've got to just protect Cairo, but Rommel's just dashing through them. So Operation Crusader is launched in November of 41.

This is the big counter-offensive to try and stop Rommel. they meet at the first battle of El Alamein. Okay. Now, this is a key stretch because essentially, this is the last, it's on the south, you've got the, is it the Qatarra Depression, I believe?

It is the Qatar Depression. Have you been to the Qatar Depression? I've never been to the Qatar Depression. I've experienced the Qatar Depression. Yeah, of course. That's when I got very bored, watch your documentary about Asia. The Qatar depression, now,

is that just a load of sand? Is that a posh way for saying sand? I don't actually know, but it seems. I think it's a lot of sand, the Qatarra Depression. Or is it a canyon and it dips? Don't know.

Maybe that was the people who built the stadiums at the World Cup. Yes, you're right. That's exactly what it was, the Qatar Depression. It's a big load of sand and basically, so that's sort of essentially

a hard border on the conflict. And then Alamein is this stretch between the Qatar Depression and the coast. That's the last bit before you get into Cairo, Alexandria, Suez Canal. So Alamein's deep into Egypt, actually. Yes.

Right on the back, right before the surface. so it's canal. So Operation Crusader had broken the siege of Tobruk. They pushed Rommel back, but then in 42, by February 42, both sides have rebuilt their strength to launch fresh offensives. So Crusader had forced Rommel back to El Agila, which is, I don't fucking, who cares? July 1942, the first battle of Alamein, deep into Egypt,

Romwell has advanced and brought the Axis forces all the way back in. So it swung again. Crusader pushed them back towards Libya. He's invaded again into Egypt. But the problem with his style is that you can only go so far before they run out of steam, right? Because it's one long road and Libya is massive, maybe not the size of India, but it's very big, right? And also at this point, like, Malta's involved in that Malta is a key strategic island for the shipping. Yeah, yeah.

And so there's a lot of British naval operations trying to stop, interrupt access supply lines. I mean, Britain must have much better naval... In the Mediterranean, it must be easier for them because they've got water. I guess Italy is there. Spain aren't featuring at this point, of course. So Italy, it's all basically won and lost in how the supply gets from Italy to the coast or Malta. So there's a big battle for Malta. Lufaffa do low reds.

And that's happening during this. This is all happening during this, right? But the problem with Romper was that he just sees a gap and just goes for it and doesn't think about how he's got,

how the water evaporation is not accounting for using Jerry cats. He wouldn't play the board game. No, and yet. Monty Wood. Well, that's why Monty wins. Yeah, because he was playing

the board game. By himself. Yeah. Imagine playing by yourself. That's real. That's real. Do you know what? I'm going to put a bet now

that Pierre has at least heard of this board game. Sure. So, the first battle of El Alamein it's a gay man in denim cutoffs fighting rumble who's sucking on a dummy now there are series of ridges and positions and the control of these ridges

changes hands multiple times we should say actually a bit about how grim life in the desert war was flies you don't think about the flies I don't know if we want to do another episode but we talk about all of World War II and we rank all the things but

I'd love to do that sorry put in the diary now can you hide your erection please sorry sorry is that half mark. I love to rank theaters of war. The Queen is at Windsor. Sorry.

The Queen is the fucking ballads. London Bridge has fallen. Because I don't know what's the worst conditions across all theatres. Because the jungle's pretty fucking awful. Desert's bad. Trench is bad. Like what is the worst one? Yeah.

You'd imagine Mediterranean is quite nice. No, but Italy gets like, that's pretty brutal. A lot of the... Because there's no infrastructure in Italy, so it's all just rocky and climbing up. But the... The flies are awful. Yeah. There's the sand, obviously, the snakes.

You know, they're all wearing kind of like mosquito net burkers to try and eat. There's fucking snakes. The desert's filled with fucking snakes. I'm talking to you, Laura. Yeah. Bitch. Well, that's, that's the ork on Instagram Live. It's denim cutoffs.

Snakes everywhere. The real problem with this is all the fucking snakes. So if Britain lose control of El Alamein, then they basically have a free run into Suez Canal. Yeah. So the Panzer divisions come and launch a massive assault. Alt 1st July. They do sound like the panties divisions. Do you know what I mean?

It's close. It is close. And they sound like they're sniffing panties as they go. They're going, they're furiously huffing panties. Yes. Well, at this point, maybe they think it's the, maybe the part of the surprise is that they call themselves the panty divisions. And then the people are expecting strippers to arrive.

And actually, it's, um, it was the Italians for sure. Meth-addled Nazis. So, um, despite being outnumbered, the Indian. Indian Brigade. That's not what I call. That's what you call the local male war elections in London. Sadiq's cabinet, the Indian Brigade. They hold out for hours. There's a sandstorm,

which means the Axis tanks overrun the position. This is dare to be fair, not to get awoke with it, but that's one thing that there's a lot of vote revisionism, but one thing that I think they got right is that the Indian war effort is not mentioned at all. No. No one brings them up. No, they did a lot.

they do appear a lot. And the Aussies do a lot. Yeah. And it's never brought up. It's the empire coming together. It's the classic empire thing. When we're in a pickle, please help us guys. As soon as we're not in a pickle, fuck off.

Yeah. But at this time, you know, Gandhi's also sleeping with his mouth. Running his mouth. He's the real terrorist, of course. The real villain. The real villain. The story is Mahatma Gandhi.

But anyway, now this Indian brigade gets annihilated, but they delay the German advance, which buys the 8th Army time to reorganize at Alamen. The 8th Army is what is the, army that's fighting for the Brits, the Allies. So the geography of the

area mean that Romwell can't actually outflank because of the Qatar of Depression. So it's, the geography is on the mental health problem. It is a mental, yes, sorry. Romel gets very, very sad. He's allergic to good views. It's all pretty gnarly stuff.

And Romel ultimately, by the late July, it goes on for about a month, but ultimately supply lines are too stretched. He cannot get fuel and resources to the front of get the bag in. He cannot get the bag in. Yeah, it's like now you're just, if you keep getting the bag,

you don't add to the come down, but he's run out of the bag, the come down's setting in. It's trying to pull the guy again. We're in the middle of the fucking desert. Yeah, he's going to take three days to get here. We're going to have the come down before the guy gets here.

So that, because the supply lines go all the way back to Libya. Yeah. They essentially get exhausted from being on drugs and meth all the time. So essentially, the first battle of Elamain, stalemate.

Now, the Brits are obviously fucked. Everyone's knackered. The coordination between the multinational forces was quite bad. The orc was a gay guy denim cutoff. He wasn't really concentrating on things. The orc.

That's what he's called, the orc. It sounds like a bear or an otter. It's a gay guy. It's an ugly, hairy gay guy. Orchin lech. I don't know how you say it. But they're obviously knackered from the fucking heat and the sand.

I mean, it's also, it's freezing at night. Yeah. It's pretty, the extremes are bad. Yeah. It's a pretty bad time. How would you, where do you want to be placed in a theatre of war? I would like to be a sort of guarding, Bertus Garden, Eagles Nest. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, last line of defence. So really clean, you're not getting involved at all, you're just standing attention. I'm put the trap to the nines and I walk out when easy company get there in April, and I just put my hands up, I just blow them all to shit. That's good. I like that. Anyway, it's stalemate.

Rommel has completely, Romel has taken most of North Africa and yet he's been halted by a stalemate at the first battle of El Alamein. Now, in our next... It feels like we normally got halted by it. It's how complicated this is.

Yes. We're stuck in the desert. We are stuck in the desert. The sand in our tanks at the moment. Yes. We're breaking down. It's all looking... The Brits are exhausted.

Nackard. We're knackered. We need... A nautistic man with knobbly knees to come and the sword's out. Yeah. We need a dad on holiday. Morale is low. Morale is low. And our next episode,

we will deal. Comeeth the hour, cometh the autist. Monty will be here, but so will Piaendevelli. He'll be joining us. So we are flying an artist in to rebuild the morale of this series. Generally, we've got lost in the desert and now we're helicoptering.

Our own Montgomery will be deployed next to fucking sort out where we are. Now there's next two episodes in the Monty Rumble series are already on the Patreon. We have three pounds a month. You two can join a community of people that play the North African board game. Stop advertising it. It's done.

Yeah, okay, fine. Too many patrons. Don't join. Don't join. Don't join. We're not having the best time. Don't join. It's not great. No. It's not brilliant. It's awful. It's awful. You'd hate it. You'd absolutely hate it. We're now negative them. Is that what we're trying? You'd hate it in there. You'd hate it in there. It's not more of the thing you love.

No, it's less. For cheap. It's less. Yeah, it's less. Yeah, it's less. It actually cheapens the whole thing. Yeah. And there's loads of women. There's loads of women in it anyway. Inexplicably. Yeah. Somehow, despite all our best efforts.

So don't join the patron. Yeah. Anyway, the rest of the series is on it, though. And we're talking about the SAS. Anyway, that's the patron. We will see you next time with Gia Novelli for Monty's arrival to the North African Theatre. Until then.

Goodbye. Goodbye. Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder. What If? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca.

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