Fin vs History - It’s Raining Rubber Fists (with Daniel Sloss) | The Rise and Fall of Colonel Gaddafi (Part 3/4)

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

Daniel Sloss joins us to talk Gaddafi in the 80s - including a show trial for toddlers, The Lockerbie disaster, and most heinous of all - a bomb in a Berlin nightclub. The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.  For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/fintaylor?utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome back to Finn versus history. I'm here with the ratio gulves. Hello there. And now, you've gone quite low African for that. I know, I know. I was actually trying to say just hello. I was like, I'm going to do it. But now you've been so warped by you.

We're also with the Scottish scholar, Daniel Sloss. Yes. Hello, my friend. It is great. He's not born in Scotland as you can hear. The last king of Scotland is. He's the last king of Scotland. A controversial.

comedian if you're Indian. He says some pretty wild stuff about Indian. We must say, we do not agree with everything this man says. No. We just want to say. I'm a centrist when it comes to gender rights. I think there's a lot of good arguments on both sides. More rates on one side.

Yes. Yeah. But the good side, the goodies. The goodies are winning. The good guys. Just an innocent man, Daniel Sloss. This is very much like Emily May they're speaking to Prince Andrew. This is our version of it.

You know, we've got on the show. It doesn't mean we agree with what he stands. for this is the episode he's sloss is an outlier in the comedy community this is the episode where you're the listeners of this podcast could maybe get their wives or girlfriends to listen to it yeah and i'm can you tell i'm very uncomfortable with that i'm absolutely uncomfortable with that this is one for the ladies ladies night on the podcast this is the closest thing to a female guest we will ever have it's a man who's gone on record saying he's against sexual assault which we must say

that's his opinion and it's his political opinion this is BBC who got a balance we have to have balance we ask Russell Brand to come in as well but he's currently he's busy yeah it's still in America I think

is he? No he came back for you're keeping up with the trial on you no you're not in the prosecution they did ask yeah well both you have a link of going after Russell Brand right you went after brand and then you got slapped for it it, right?

Yeah, his agent tried to sue me. He was threatened suing me and then called me and said, sorry. Oh, right. Sorry, he turns out

he is a rapist. Sorry. I'm paraphrasing. Not Shagger of the year. Surely he can't say. Where's shagged the year? When did the apology come? Like four days afterwards?

After the documentary? No, no, no. After I, because she saw the show she confronted me afterwards. I then told, I remember telling you, I told everyone. This is pretty funny. So she called me and said,

I believe in free speech. I enjoyed your show. Yep, lots of love. See later. Free speech fundamentalists now. Yeah, exactly. She breastfeeds dogs. She breastfeeds dogs.

She has, yes, of course. Now, we should, we should, we should deal with that, really. Are we allowed to talk about that? She said on a podcast. She's one of those extraordinary clips. So, uh, this is all just, this is some, this is gold, green room gold dust, what we're giving you, right? The WhatsApps, the day that Sophia Ellis Bexter podcast went out was lit all over the world.

So, for, because of Gondor. To get people up to speed, Russell Brands, ex-agent went on Sophie Alaspex's podcast. Daniel, would you like to continue the story? Oh, God, yeah, right? So she goes on Sophie Ellis' X's podcast and she's talking about how she's got to pick up her new dog and she always says, like we always say our dog was our first kid and it's while she was pregnant with her second kid. She's pregnant with her kid or she's recently had a kid and she brings the dog home and she willingly offers this information. I've not seen the video

of the podcast but I assume there's no gun against her head. What I will say is that Soph Felix Bex says, have you got a dog? That's the only context you need for what she then says. Which is she then talks about while watching TV with the dog or lap. The dog starts suckling on her nipples, drinking milk from her breasts, and how she loved the feeling of it. It felt very natural and homely. And I know some of her clients who've listened to that and been like,

what the actual fuck? You're representing me in this. and you've gone on your first ever podcast and that's the story you choose to announce to the road. Also, what are you doing on podcast? You're an agent. Fuck off.

My favorite moment is when she's telling the story and then, you know, I was wearing a dressing gown and then the dog finds my nipple and started suckling

and you hear Sophie Lysbex to go, oh. She's going, yeah, yeah, yeah, dogs are cute, yeah, oh, right. She's also, and then my husband walks in, he says hi, by the way,

and so he's like, yeah, okay. Let's get to the, the dog tits. Anyway, I don't know how we got there, but I mean, being suckled by dogs

is kind of Gaddafi-esque, isn't it? It's in the playbook. Yes, fine. That's a mad dog that is. Is he the dog or the tits? I don't know what he is. So where are we?

Where are we left off? Well, first of all, Daniel, we're halfway through the Gaddafi series. Thank you for stopping by. Yeah. We needed an expert to call in another scholarly expert. Yeah. What's your initial thoughts on Godaffi as the man?

Well, so before I did all of the research, before, I would have said very anti-Qadhafi, if I put my stance. You're anti, a lot of things. We get that. You're not for many things. After immersing myself in his world, he, I'm not pro-him. There's a charm to. There is an absolute charm to.

He's an undeniable star quality. I'm not, not pro-em. I'm not anti him. If he invite, if he was still. around and he invited me on a night out, I would be like, as long as nobody else finds out that I'm coming, 100% I'm coming. I'm very much listening if Gaddafi is in there. I want to hear him speak more than anyone. I just think sponsoring terrorism is so fucking funny and cool. Yeah, it is cool. It is cool. To be like, oh, we're a small country of 60 million people. I fucking, I hate everyone

out there but I can't go out there there's fucking sanctions people are going to try and kill me what do you do you hate your government great here's a billion pounds and a bunch of bombs you hate your government do he's like the Oprah of country

you get a car you get a car you get some you get a car bomb yeah it's like governmental grant it's like a too encouraging but I love how he's just basically this lone troll yeah that it's just like oh fuck it yeah I guess he's the ultimate troll he's the joker he's the agent of chaos

Some men just want to watch the world burn And that's all Gaddafi seems to do And he's not, you know, now whenever I see those memes of like Oh, what if, you know, what if Bill Hicks was around today? All that stuff. I'm like, we're missing out on what

Gaddafi would be saying about the current age. What would Gaddafi be doing with the woke era? What would Gaddafi say? Who's he sponsoring? Who's he sponsoring now? Is he sponsoring the blue hair? Is he sponsoring people to council culture?

Is he that? Well, you might have, um, because he has so many eras. Some eras that completely He could have had a really won't hero. He could have had a real blue hair era. He could have been like super trans, feminites he's going down the street.

Transterrorism. Him and J.K. rolling together maybe. Place their dick, cut their dicks off. Sticks of dynamite, bang. Well, yeah, if you have a lot of money, it's like, it's more creative, yeah. What a creative way to spend? He had so much.

He was such, nobody ever talks about what a self-made billionaire was. Yeah. Like, was the richest man in the world at one point. Apparently he dies richer than Bill Gates and Warren Buffett put together Because that's the thing

You see those rich lists It's always billionaires Because they have to be public With their assets But then Putin's never in those lists Right Yes So I guess if you're

One people will say the richest person In the world I guess political leaders Because it's all hidden Yeah And their wealth is not really counted Yeah So we got to

The last episode We Gaddafi had entirely reinvented himself As an intellectual author Even though he can't read he'd changed the name of Libya to the flag's now green He's just green

Just green just green It's very Kanye-esque You know There's kind of minimal aesthetic He's really boiling it down He's written a book Also hates the Jews Yeah

Basically he's written a green book Which is a series of words Which is different from the movie The Green Book Which took me a while Two different books He didn't The Green Book is not based

Of Gaddafi's Green Book No The film The Green Book is not No, because it was... It would be quite a radical interpretation. Yes. Gaddafi wouldn't be happy with that film. That's not what I meant at all.

Why is that black man in the back of the car? That was making it attention. What did you mean, Gaddafi? Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. We went, the last time he went through some quotes, Sloss, and it's basically, he is describing nouns as if he's just heard them. So his opinion on sports is everyone should play sports.

Sport is for all, not just the Irish people. Music is for listening to... It is sometimes in the air when you walk through a lift. When it is cold, you wear more clothes, when it is hot, less cold. He also said, I can't recognize either Palestinian or Israeli state, the Palestinians are idiots and Israelis are idiots, which is a form of centrism, I guess. You're both idiots.

Those who do not love me do not deserve to live than play. But yeah, but imagine that. All right, then. In Arabic, tattooed on your say. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, what about this one? All right, then nobody can complain if we ask pregnant women to make parachute jumps. We don't have the context of that.

I love that as a quote, one of his famous quotes, because it's clearly the end of an argument. All right, then, well, no one care of me to make a pregnant jump up on a plane. What happens then? And at this point, he's not mouth, because he had his UN era, right? That comes later.

That's later. When he comes, uses that as a soapbox and starts mowing off. There is no state with the democracy, except Libya on the whole planet. The guy's a maniac. And we brought Sloss in because this is where he really, you know, this is peak Maradonna, this is hand of God stuff.

This is, he's on cocaine. Yeah, he's entering his prime. Yeah. So the first thing we need to talk about happens in 1984 where there's a dissident. He calls people who hate him stray dogs. Yeah, right. So he's been called the mad dog by Reagan. He calls anyone who is against him a stray dog. Right.

And he has this supposedly this web, this Bond villain web throughout the world to try and catch the stray dogs and kill them. He thinks he's found one and he fills a sports hall in Benghazi with, I think it's 6,000, or maybe it's more children. Children, not kids. as a young as six and he proceeds to do a show trial to one man who forgot his gym stuff right

normally they would just make him do it in his boxers make him run around his guilezy are wearing black shoes and a squash court and they do a show trial and everyone's like cheering why is it all kids what's the thought that

I think because just you know before this we've had Mao's Culture Revolution and he saw what Mao did with the kids and he's like we need to get the kids involved in the revolution I think Mao's thing was teenagers right I think kids Gaddafi's misunderstood this

the whole point is like the youth movement it's not literally it's like toddlers and then yeah he's found guilty Sloss yeah funny enough he found guilty of subversion

you said you watched this earlier it's like without even the sound on that I speak fucking crazy I don't speak crazy but it's just this guy begging for his life visibly in this put

like hands tied behind his back on his knees with all these kids clapping and fucking with their mums just handing out fucking little ham sandwiches So he's in a basketball court

go on Sloss Yeah so instead of like having the trap door which opens which causes your fucking neck to snap They're just like just hoist them up

and they do which takes you like three or four minutes to die and it's taken so long that some fucking mad bitch in the crowd is like I'll do it

and then just goes and like hangs on to the guy's legs like pulls him down to like break his neck and make him choke faster and then she got a job Gadhaffi saw that

and was like that is brilliant because Gaddafi doesn't need to like anyone but he was like that that is brilliant that's feminism

that is absolutely that is a girl boss slaying there's a badass bitch slaying a man but even when she pulled on him to break his neck that didn't kill him

so then he gets taken to doctors who inject him with poison That doesn't even work. Then they just start hitting him with hammers, I think. No, no.

They get a sack filled with sand. That fuck, that's it. And then they ram it down his throat. Yes. Ram it down his throat and hold his nose until he chokes the death. Fucking hell.

It's always like, all their ideas are to kill it. Each one, it feels like, there's so many easier ways to do this. It's like a naked gun film. It's like hanging, you know, poisoning. Okay, sock with sand.

Also, why don't just, why don't just hang him for longer? Be like, well, he's clearly immune to hanging. We tried it for three months. minutes. This guy's immune to. He's immune to hammers. He's pleading, but that's... I want to see what the next one on the pyramid down was. You go, right, that hasn't worked. The sock in the sand doesn't work. What's next? Snake up the ass. What do we do? Um, so this is, this is beginning... By the way, see, the woman who yanked on him, didn't just get given a job. She was made

mayor of Benghazi. Was it that? Or she goes in the cabinet as well, I think. I think she becomes a mayor. Foreign secretary or something? Because he hates Benghazi. Yes. It's the east of the country. She's always trying to... So he's literally like some random psychopaths. He's like, well, yeah, you can run that. Brilliant. Do you know that's how Sadiq got the job? Do you know that? Sashidh got London. Even she wouldn't do

Ulez. Even she's not mad enough to do fucking Ulez. Yeah. So, um, this happens in the same year that Gaddafi's foreign terrorism really starts to kick off. There is a protest in London in 84

outside the Libyan embassy. Uh, the most Libyans outside of Libya live in the UK. But there's still, there's like, it's like 50 of them. And they've also not updated the sign on the Libyan embassy to be the really long fucking name that he decided to. It still just says, yeah, yeah.

It's the Socialist Republic. So there's a big protest against him. And I, you know, listen, I sometimes walk past small protests and I'm, you know, people, this podcast will know, I'm a deeply conservative boomer inside. And I do have an interior monologue and goes, no, fucking hippies getting a job.

when you say inside you mean shouting at it yeah through a megaphone get a job you fucking hippies get out my pole you know um it's rona week now until wednesday rain or shine you can always be building yourself a better summer so head on over to rona and save 35% on cans of 3.78

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And what happens next, I do have dark fantasies about what happens next. Right. Is someone, at the top of the Libyan embassy, there is a protest happening outside with placards. Someone just opens a window and just starts firing a machine gun in midday, right, fuck this.

But in the... That's enough. Too many pigeons on my long. Yeah. In the way that you'd spray a cat if they're buying you with like... Water pistol. Just in London.

In London. Sadeek's London. Submachine gun out of a window disperses the crowd. Yeah, like it's a drive-by, but from an unmoving vehicle. Just the casual... He hasn't finished this conversation.

Yeah, so I was saying... sorry I can't hear myself overall yeah obviously what I will say about this event obviously a police officer trashing that loses her life

but it is the furthest anyone's actually tried to take diplomatic community like those buildings are supposed to save houses yes and they meant to be it's Libyan soil technically

but that was the fucking chest move that Gaddafi had gotten them into because all the police at this water here were like let us in that building we know the shirt is in there and they were like

you're not getting in it He's not Europe. We don't know where he is. There must be like an underground tunnel this building. Can we see that? I mean, we talked about this with the Munich stuff and how they all gave the terrorists back to Gaddafi. And it's seemingly this weird liberal order

where it seems like Gaddafi can just get away with everything because of the rules and regulations of the post-World War II liberal order. Yeah, the UN's woke. It's basically like someone shot a machine gun out at an embassy. It's like literally they've claimed sanctuary. culture. Yeah.

They had one hand on base. Surely that's enough to be like, you can't be in that house anymore. Yeah. You can't just... Just imagine, like, climate change protest. Shut up. Just a couple of grenades.

Extinction rebellion. Right. Just pop a grenade under that truck and you sell it up to do. Bang, that's that problem done. Hey, what are you saying? Sorry about that. So a police officer, Yvonne Fletcher,

or as she's called on Wikipedia, officially, a woman police officer. Her rank is WPC. A woman police constable. A woman policeman. Yeah. Because now I think they're just all police people. Yeah.

People at police? I don't know what the comment was. But she was like a model policeman, right? There's a whole story about her. Yeah. The only good pick is a dead one. Is that what you're saying? No, no.

No, because she's a woman. She's a model. Oh, she's like, she was using her. She's fit. Yeah. Anyway, where are we at now? So Yvonne Fletcher is assassinated. on the streets of London in broad daylight and just put a pin in that for when we get to

Gaddafi a couple of sections later in the story. There's then a bit of a siege I think and Gaddafi just gets the guy just gets him home. Sorry about that. Because they're not allowed to go in there but then they cut off diplomatic relations, right? Classic British move. Yeah, exactly. Well, we're talking to you anymore. I'm going to turn our backs on you. They've got a gun. Don't care. No, we're not going to. So that means that they need to clear out of the embassy. Yes. They wait for them all to clear out. Then they get their flights back to Libya.

Yeah. And when they go into the embassy, the gun, the bullets, and everything is just there. And they just fucking lie. And they were like, yeah, it was there the whole time. Of course, he was. It does seem that. It does it. Yeah.

But I guess the reason they decided it was a tactical thing is they didn't want to undermine. I guess the actual thinking is if they undermine UN resolutions and stuff, it puts all of their diplomats abroad at risk. Yes. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Because it still feels a bit mad.

Yeah, because I think at this point they're still British and American diplomats in Libya. Libya, but all over the wall. It just puts them on a lot of risk if they break into an embassy. Yeah, so this isn't the point. It's just the moral high ground that they're just so desperately trying to hold on to.

The next attack is when Reagan was like, right, enough of this. So this is in Berlin, on the 5th of April 86, a woman enters a nightclub, Label nightclub in West Berlin, which is a venue frequented by American servicemen. And she sets off a two-case. kilogram bomb. Heavy.

A bomb in a Berlin nightclub. Can you imagine the scene? Rubber fists everywhere. Shitty nappies all over the walls. Mixed with real fists. They've gone through it at the end. I feel like fake, fake, fake, real, all covered of shit. Fake.

Oh my God. A hundred men died. Look how many hands we found. Yeah. This is the world. Oh, no, it's two guys died. Oh, no, it's two guys died. Oh, right.

They were just having a really good time. Guys, I can't tell you how many black men died in there. They're out of decks I've seen. Just none of them left. Just big black cocks. Oh, it's a gimps. No, never mind. Okay, he was just wearing leather.

Yeah, there is no more heinous a crime scene than a bomb going off on a Berlin nightclub. My God. And Reagan goes, well, this is horrible. This is a war crime. Yeah. I think quite a few people die in this one. says three

oh just the three is it yeah three killed 200 injured 200 injured two US troops and one Turkish woman

I don't know why that's made me laugh two US servicmen and Turkish women as well but it does kind of make it sound like as if they were all just part of the same clique

there yeah yeah yeah yeah what's going on there yeah so this is they discover this because it's a Semtex bomb which is Gaddafi's like

king of Semtex yeah so any bomb that goes off that's got Semtex it's basically from Colonel Gaddafi. So he's also funding the IRA at this point. He's giving them guns.

You'll take any call? You'd love to hear that phone call. The two thickest, most terrifying accents in the world. Because also Gaddafi could speak English. He just often refused to. He wouldn't sally his mouth with it. But then when he's phoned up the fucking IRA, he's like, oh, no, that's been a while.

Let's dust off the old cobwebs. How many Catholics are we going for it? Yeah, fuck the cat. Catholics. So Reagan in response to the Berlin Nightclub orders Operation El Dorado Canyon. That's quite a Reagan.

Pretty good name. Yeah. El Dorado Canyon. Coming to cinema as soon. Yeah. And he orders air strikes on Tripoli and Benghazi, 10 days after the bomb. Gaddafi's home is bombed. Yeah. He survives, but

and this is a great move. He makes up a door. Yeah. He's never mentioned her before at any point. He's like, you know, there's bombs on my house. Yeah, my little baby girl died in there. And there's no trace of her because they bombed it. And she was six.

Yeah, she was six years old. Smithereens, she is. So it heavily backfired for Reagan, really. Because he did an immediate press conference outside of the damage rubble saying my daughter's been killed and actually tugged on a lot of people's heartstrings. They're like, oh, poor. You don't have a daughter. I adopted one actually.

Yesterday. You don't have a door. That's what I'm saying. I'm agreeing with you. I don't have a daughter. He's a corpse. I adopt you. Oh, no.

Not my daughter. But he gives this speech, which basically is the most sort of 21-year-old left-wing speech. Really? Yeah. It's like, we're not terrorists. We're not a terrorist number one terrorist in the world. You know the biggest terrorist is George Bush. That's basically what he says to the cameras.

He goes, we are civilization. You are pigs. You are a terrorist pigs. Is this also the one where there was here, the big fucking. statue made, which now knows in a museum out there, but it's of a giant fucking Libyan fist crushing, I think. It's like an American

bald eagle or a plane or a... Oh, that is fucking cool. It does, it does, it does look a bit like a hand job. Yeah. It does look a tad like a... We make America a gum. That was actually found in

the Berlin nightclub record. It's terrifying. Very sad. Three servicemen and one giant... man massive Turkish Roman

who's been fissing them with a plane my word so this is following the 81986 bombing of Libya

by the United States which kind of I think this is the this I don't know when Charlie when's Top Gun

come out because I think this basically is neither the inspiration for it or it happens around the same

time makes Top Gun such a big movie is because at this time those American pilots are

it comes out in 86 so it's about the same time well the Pentagon or the

army they fund top gun partially fund the film yeah they fund it so it's to make it seem propaganda it's literally propaganda and then uh submissions got 500% after top gun comes out really yeah yeah because have you seen hot shots no which was that oh it's a charlie sheen spoof of top gun right it's a film that your girlfriend won't like okay yeah yeah it's a it's a silly dad so it's a film it's a film it's a film who's they what are they doing who's she is she bad yeah so this is the first major US intervention in the Arab world actually the US got involved

in the when there were white slaves in the Barbary coast Oh yeah that's her thing Yeah from Ireland and Britain Oh I thought this would be ages ago How long ago was it? That was like the 17th 18th century Oh fuck oh I thought it was like ancient world

No no It's at the same time as the slave trade It's funny to fumble the bag With white privilege isn't it? Yeah I mean especially in like the height of the cloning era It's like, how a fuck did this happen? Sorry, I'm a slave to the Arabs.

What the fuck's going on here? How are I fucked it this badly? Did I have a weird drink? Did I have a weird drink? What the fuck's going on there? My name's Roger. I'm in the right time at the right place. How have I done this?

I'm being whipped by an Arab man smoking Shisha. Could you stop to do that? I'm trying to think of how I got here. Just give me a second. What went wrong? Obviously, Did the white sleeves get anything done? Was it as pathetic as we emerged?

No, they were complaining all the time. time. I'm going to start a resolution to stop this. He's your dinner. It's got gluten in it. Can we

can we just get a cabby I was running? Can you, can we just get like a boat or something, please? Please. Anyway,

I can't remember what's the, how does the operation end? Like obviously there's a bit of shooting down the plane and stuff. Well, it's a PR disaster, right? Is this during the time when like Gaddafi's like this part of the sea

my fucking sea. No. The line of death. Yeah, the line of death. Yeah. US ships go in and being like you, that's one of the things I love about him so much is to just go

to the US army in the fucking 80s being like, this is the line of fucking death. You cross this fucking, you need like five and a half million population will fucking destroy it. And knowing full well, the US are going to be like, what, what, fuck, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Just good trolling. Great trolling.

Yeah, he's a honey badger. And arguably he's literally a honey badger. Arguably, his most successful troll takes place over Lockerby. in 1980s. Yeah. It's a classic. The odd one, too.

Yeah, this is his... This is the Scottish 9-11. This was, before 9-11, the worst act of terrorism, I think, ever. Yep. Certainly the worst air terrorism. Daniel's as Scott. What's this in Dunblane, really? They're the big ones.

Yeah, yeah, this, Dunblane. And the only other terrorist attack we had was the Glasgow Airport one, which was the greatest... That's amazing. That is amazing. Where Johnny Smith and kicked the terrorists in the testicle. while he was on fire. Yeah, yeah. Because the only, the only people that can really,

like the rock paper scissors, yeah, right, you've got, obviously, Islamic terrorism is taken over everything. The only thing they can beat that is the Scots. Yeah. The drunk, Glaswegian kicks the nuts of the drunk terrorists. So this is basically to get back at Reagan for the strikes. So there's a plain, Pan Am,

which I always think is like a woman. But why are you doing in Scotland? What's Scotland got in there? No, it's not, it's not meant to explain. Oh, right, right. It was meant to explode over the ocean so that there was no traces of anything left and they never would have known

what would happen in the blackpox would have disappeared. But because there were delays, unsurprisingly, from Heathrow. This is before the Elizabeth line. This is before Heathrow's open terminal five. Bombs aren't set off with phones. It's like the timers.

The guy said, yeah, egg timer. Flight's delayed an hour. And because of that, it goes over and explodes above land. I mean, that's a crazy idea, though, because the plane's always delayed. But this was pre-9-11, so delayed way less.

There was no security at this point. I mean, I'm pretty sure they got the bomb through in like, it was Semtex, in a radio, and, but there's no scanners. It was a suitcase with children's clothes in it, in like a wash bag. And a bomb. Yes, there was a bomb.

Yeah, yeah. I thought that was clear. It wasn't just some perfume that explains. very strong Arabian perfume except fire over yeah so it's Pan Am flight I always think that sounds like a woman yeah

Pam Anderson let's see every single time yeah yeah flight 103 it's Frankfurt to New York via Heathrow they're flying home for Christmas flying home for Christmas

I can't wait to see their faces sprayed over a Scottish mountain side also if you're a flat Arthur that route makes no sense well not many things do make sense if you're a flat

Gaddafi's green book makes sense. Yeah, if you're a flat author. Finally, someone's making some fucking sense of this. So, yeah, flight from Frankfurt to New York, flying home for Christmas, blah, blah, blah. The delayed, big explosion over a tiny, was it a market town? Yeah, yeah. And this is the bit that's most wild.

You could blow a plane up above most places in Scotland and the only people you're killing are the people in the fucking plane. Put it to, like, land on a town. and then also like destroy half of it and kill I mean I don't know where the ratios of death was for the amount of people I think it was like 70 people it takes out basically like 12 houses yeah

this fireball just comes down from right it's at 30,000 feet yeah so it's just the whole sky like massive firework and we're like in Scotland like oh the queen's dead that's good that's what that means that's and then and this fireball comes out the sky and basically the whole fuselage just lands on a terraced house like a row of terraced of houses right that's gone And where is Lockerby and Scotland?

Is it in the central belt or is it? Lockerbred. It's gone out. Fucking... All right. Yeah. So it's near the border. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Right. And where's Dunblane? Dunblane's further east, I believe. I'm right. And that, when did that happen? 95. 95.

96. And Andy Murray was... At school there. School there. Yeah. I was living... It's still the most boring man. Imagine...

Imagine surviving the only fucking school shooting in the UK. It's still having nothing to say. good at tennis though he lets his tennis did the talking yeah yeah I was living in Scotland when Dunblown

happened and I was at school yeah yeah oh what's your alibi sorry was your alibi I was five

I was the angry fat kid that shot up um um do you have any photos of you as a fat kid because I

have you got the photo um fat tailor yeah the Christmas the Minspai story I had to pull over my car because I was laughing so

I just in thought of you it's a little Chelsea fun just like when the devil tries to feed Homer Simpson all of the donuts and he's a hom, just never ending there I am

that's me look those thighs my thighs haven't lost anyway I'll tell you that much I've still got those thighs Jesus Christ yeah jump her over the shoulder hanging

hanging tough looking cool by my granddad's big organ excuse me he was a music man And boy, did he make us sing. He made us sing.

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It's a big one. So bear in mind. I guess 9-11 sort of took a lot of Lockerby's thunder in the sense that, about the time, it was, no one really seen anything quite like it. Originally, they don't know what's happened and there's like, it's really grim, there's body parts sprayed across the hillside. Yeah, miles and miles and miles. I guess if you drop from 30,000 feet. So there's a Berlin nightclub exploding in the air. rubber fists everywhere

dildos everywhere and the deeply conservative Presbyterians of Scotland like my this is a disgrace to them is some sort of horrific omen at the start God is angry Dildos and tits are falling

from the sky He's tempting us He's tempting us And they think originally it's the Iranians Because that's what they're up to It's typical I'm blame

Grumpikins is in power But to be fair Which is not talked about here is we do Americans accidentally do pretty much the same as Lockerbie to the Iranians

and it's more people die so that's why they think it's they think it's retaliation for this thing or there's some kind of Israel Arab war happening yeah and an Iranian flight

enters Israeli airspace because of some a sandstorm or something yeah and they say tell it to land and it doesn't and then the Americans shoot it down

because they think it's all kicking off I think and then 290 people die yeah so originally it's a that Lockerbie is a revenge for that. One for one.

It turns out that it's, they trace the kids, so they have the black box and they trace the kids' clothes or some clothing in the suitcase to a clothes shop in Malta. They then get the receipts there. Right. And they, it's these two guys, are they Libyan or were they just living in Libya?

Is it a Palestinian thing? Well, you don't know, because Libya is just the training camp, so loads people go through Libya, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're from Libya. Yeah. It's never really, I mean, there was a big, It's very confusing that. It's very confusing for you to know. Say it's Gaddafi, doesn't it? And then it's also Gaddafi blames it on Al-Magrahi who was

arrested and so he originally would not give the terrorists over to Scotland for the investigation and stuff. And then eventually when he was going through his reconciliation period, actually later on, he gave us Al-Magrahi. And then we released Al-Magrahi in about 2000. Oh, did he have prostate cancer? Yeah, he had cancer and we let him go on compassionate grounds. I remember that, yeah. But this is throughout the story is all this kind of like, well, you know, you are sick. Sorry about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, you're free to go. The only thing worse than bombing a passenger liner is keeping a man who's got prostate cancer indoors. Yeah, you're free to go. Yeah, get out there.

Here's a W.H. Smith voucher. It's crazy. It's been all in one shop. That's all I can do. So, um, this starts the beginning of, um, um, a UN sanctions. This is the kind of the peak of bad PRF. Yeah. Sort of closing its doors in Gaddafi, which is the last thing he wants, He's a true pariah. He's too big for Libya. This is when he goes full, well, I'm not Arab, I'm African.

This is where he starts getting the kit on, the clobber. Yep. Leopard skin. The leopard skin, the, all the robes and stuff. We should,

this is how he builds a lot of infrastructure in Africa this. He's like, some of the biggest mosque in Uganda is the Gaddafi mosque? He's a hero over there because, like, especially when they were fighting against colonialism, he was like, great, I'll just take all of this money into all of these.

places to help and I think one of the really interesting that I learned from the podcast I've listened to for this is Mandela was a huge fan of Gaddafi which is probably Mandela's biggest blindspot a man who seems to have very few like counterfeit narratives about his greatness

he's one of the most morally consistent men he really is but you know Gandhi's a sacred cow but then you look at the actual story as him and he does some fucking weird shit this seems to you want his only real notable blind spots is that till the end he says Gaddafi is

fucking awesome and made his grandson be named after him so there is somebody Let's get Gadda Mandela on the pod Gadda There is someone called Gandalfi Mandela

Which is like It's like someone being called like Hitler Thunberg Yeah Greza Hitler Thumburg Osama bin Harris Yeah Yeah it's just

It's fucking amazing Because I mean People don't like to talk about this Mandela was originally seen as a terrorist. Absolutely. And he was wrongly freed.

I would not negotiate with him. He was freed from Robin Island. Absolute woke nonsense. Keep that man banged up. He's a threat to society. Yeah, so I guess it's trial and error, though. Because if you're Gaddafi and you're anyone who says, I'm going to blow up anything, you're like, brilliant.

Have some money. A stock clock is right twice a day, right? Yeah. But again, like you were saying, Mugabe for the first five, ten years, is a kind of student hero. Yeah. And then he goes insane, just the Hitler Tash or whatever. But most of them, if they stay empowered, they become corrupt and...

Winnie Mandela, by all accounts, was the one where all those, all the bodies are buried. Oh, right for the ANC. Yeah, yeah, yeah, when the ANC was more aggressive in its... Right, right, right, right. Yeah, so anyway, so, but this is when the kind of Mandela Gaddafi bromance starts, which is like a sort of... Buddy cop film. Yeah, it's a, you know, unlightly best friends.

Yeah, sort of like rush hour. Yeah, it's... Madela and Gaddafi. Fuck, I want to see that film. So Mandela's the straight man and Gaddafi's kind of the crazy one. So Mandela's Jackie Chan. What, Gaddafi's Chris Tucker? Never touch an Arabs radio.

Oh, we should, you know what we should do? We should get up his fashion. Oh, and the vanity fair piece. Yeah, yeah. So this is in the 90s, he's closed off to the world because he's been such a naughty boy, funding everything terrorism-wise. So he's constantly trying to get people's attention. This is when he just starts dressing louder. He wears

track suits with like the whole silhouette of Africa on the front. So he has Africa symbols everywhere now. He does go super gay in that aspect. Like he's before he's military, he's in the khakis, the fatigues. He's in like all of the we were saying it's like drag. Yeah, he's playing with the idea of being a leader or a dictator. It's like a camped up version of it. It's post Hitler, it's post-Muselini. It's irony. It's, you know, I'm this today. And somehow he always

looks like my nan in every one of this even when he's in the military stuff I'm like yeah and then before we end this episode we need to talk about the what happens in Abu Salim yes so this is going to become key allegedly thank you Daniel

you're learning so you do know that word that's funny I don't know you had that in your vocabulary go on so the Abu Salim prison massacre this is kind of the probably he's throughout this whole time

we haven't really touched in it he has been doing absolutely heinous stuff to his own people constantly. It's a nightmare living in Libya. Televised executions every single day.

It's news night but instead it's just hanging someone else. Christian guru Murphy pulls mate list comes out and just hanging mateless hanging Prince Andrew but there's also no journalist

he's killed all the journalists so the people who are reading the news every night they're literally just taking random Libyans off the street and they're like you're the newscaster tonight and they're like huh? And they're like, they're all glycoma

every news. I think maybe technology I've still got his number yeah. Yeah, we should get him on. Go on the show. We should get him on here. I don't know if you'd be a great guest. We know if we'd get him on. We should have gone on before Daniel. So we're here with Daniel Sloss and then him to go like that. Oh, talk about a good athlete.

Oh, rape is a I think rape is very bad today. Too common. so this is domestically he's abolished laws he's abolished the idea of there being a leader he calls himself brother leader he's just guiding the revolution yeah and that's way he can't be ousted because he's like what he's like I'm not if you're angry he keeps putting these little governments in he's like right

this is the fun revolution the keeps rebounding revolutions and it's basically getting new people in he's like look these people are the government and they answer to the people below which is you and then you answer to these people which is below there So it's all this system. I do technically make all of the decisions. But if you ever get bored of decisions, I can kill all of these people

and we can just have another revolution. He also, he loves football. Loves us. And we will do a patron special on Ghanfi's son. We have to tell his anecdote. Because that's a story in its own right. But he, one of his sons,

his sons are fucking nuts. Playboys spending the hordes of wealth he's taken from the oil money that Libyan people aren't seeing at all. And it's part of the demise of Gadafi. is the publicised playboy nature of his son's going a gallivant, literally gallivanting around the world. But one son in particular loves football. And so what Gaddafi does is he buys a Libyan football club and makes his son play for the team.

The team is very bad. He can't play football. His son is the only player who has his name on the back. Yeah, sorry, because he's so terrified of anyone being more famous than him. He really tightly controls fame and notoriety. Even the football players, no names on the back. commentators has to be numbers, numbers, numbers, apart from his son.

And also, if they don't pass the ball enough to the sun, they get dropped. But they get bonuses every time they pass to the sun. So he then is made the captain of the Libyan national team. He then goes to Seria A, because Gaddafi and Berlusconi are great mates. Gaddafi even manages to get Berlusconi to pay Libya $5 billion as reparations

for all the Italian war crimes. And this might be a bit later on in the story. But he then, the son, I can't stress as enough, can't play football. It's fucking hilarious. It plays for, it's Udanaezy, but before that it's someone else. Makes one appearance. Right. It's obviously awful, can't play football.

And he paid to play. He paid to play. He paid to play. He paid to take it. Yeah, it's the only time in football history that someone has paid to play for a professional club. But the crazy thing is when he comes back to Libya, because he, because of basically refereeing decisions, all go towards Gaddafi's son's club yeah right so it's like crazy then there's like protests from people basically like this is

corrupt this is fat yeah uh and then they i think they dress up godaffi sun as like a goat or something like that and then they all get like killed yeah the um club that was protesting they demolished the entire stadium and uh solve the club yeah and then hang loads of them yeah so which is real that i mean that is how you you win a club rivalry that is you talk about celtic rangers demolish. Well, people talk about bad club owners. I think really

you don't know how good you have it. Also, didn't he get a shit didn't he get a shit in Juventus? Yeah, yeah, he does have a shirt. I mean, I guess it's just Italian Syria out if there's anyone who's going to be like,

yeah, if you've got cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't care about your past. I'm like, he's a judge. They're not very judgmental, I don't think. Italians. Yeah, the Italian football owners. So he nearly, yeah,

he nearly buys United and Crystal Palace. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Abusilim prison. Prison massacre, right. So this is a terrible prison for dissidents. I think it was built by the Italians, but it's like the conditions are absolutely awful. They're all crowned into small buildings.

They're not given food. They're not told why they're there a lot of them. And then they basically, they have nothing to lose and they start a prison riot. And they take one of the guards hostage. And they eventually get the prison to a negotiating table. and they basically demand look they're not even saying get us out of prison they're saying can we just have basic yeah food war yeah just like basic things medicine uh and they're like right yeah yeah you can have it

and also you're allowed outside for like the first time in a couple of years whatever and then they're all like in the prison yard like sun on their face like finally shank drinking a bud yeah yeah yeah and then they're all in that prison yard and then the prison guards just massacre every single one of them all they do the throw grenades in there as well yeah yeah they do the thing of like, they're like, okay, we've listened to your protests. We've actually got 20 ambulances outside and all the really sick people who are just going to take them. So the prisoners see all of these

other prisoners put the back of ambulances driven with it. But like, oh my God. This is the guy that freed Libya. It's one of the biggest sikes. Yeah. Protesting works. Yeah. It does. This is amazing. Maybe we should sign more petitions. Open the emceeasue-joo-ch-ch-fuck off.

Completely dead. And then, I'm pretty sure to, because it's his son that was sent in to, like, deal with it. Yes, one of his other sons, yeah. Because it's son, even though they're gallivating around the world, just going from hotels, taking their tigers. Everything they go to, their tigers get put in the local zoo so they can have the tigers with them. They're not only travelling the world, they have to take their pet tigers with them. But they are still, because they're Gaddafi's son, technically have really high political positions.

Even they're doing all this playboy shit, he's still technically the head of security. Yeah, prison reform. Yeah, prison reform. It's like Rachel Reeves going to Davos taking a squadron of. like leopards. If you want me here, you need more leopards. They need to be here as well. They sort of cover this up.

They don't need to cover up because they've just killed all the journalists who had any spine anyway in the country. So it's not really much of a cover-up done. But they'll get rid of the bodies by like just putting them in a massive pile and burying them underground with concrete, right? Which I think is like one of the most fucked up ways because you might know this as a father. Have you ever had to do that thing when you take your kids dinosaur toys and you put them in like a little tray and you fill it up with water?

and you give it to the kids and you give them a hammer and for the kids it occupies them for an hour while they just sort of chiseled the ice way to get the thames the water yeah yeah you freeze the water so it's like a little archeological

dig for the kids to like dig the dinosaurs out he's done that with journalism journalists and cement where are they embedded in the concrete I think so like he's just like so you want to get that you got a drill that makes a big pile

covers it up with cement and then it's just like there and then like demolishes the prison and it's like there's never been a prison just tell them it Well, infrastructure. Yeah. It's a solid foundation.

Yeah. So the thing is, yeah, it's very, obviously there's no journalist, yeah. And because they've been in prison, not be able to communicate with their families anyway, it's just rumored that something happened. No one really knows what, but something apparently happened. And it's just, that's why it doesn't come out until much later. Yeah, for four years, like the families of people in this prison are, like, still sending, like, cigarettes and food and drink to this cementigree.

Yeah. To a big pile of cement He's like, he's not quiet in the past two years Oh, he's not cheating on me I'll always not And when it all falls down This ends up This is one of the big

This is one of the big things In his downfall The fact that he's covered this up So he's an international pariah But Gaddafi Like Bowie Like Miles Davis is about to reinvent himself And we'll leave this episode here

Just when you think you understand Gaddafi Shape shifts Turns out Lockerbie, that was nothing We are fast approaching One of the greatest things it's ever happened in the world. 9-11.

What does Guffie do? My birthday. Of course. That's what I meant. Yeah. And I feel very guilty because that's what I wished for. What does Gadafi do with 9-11?

You won't believe how he plays it. It's one of the great plays of all time. Super. Daniel's going to stick around. That episode's already on the Patreon. You can become a truth through and get access to all the episodes straight away. Thanks for coming on the show, Daniel. Thanks for coming on.

He's going to stick around. We'll see you all for the conclusion of our Gaddafi series next time. Bye-bye. Bye.