Fin vs History - Let the Rabbit See The Dog (with Ania Magliano!) | The History of Beauty Standards (Part 2)

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Buckle up, we’ve entered the empathy void.     Beauty Standards (Part Two)  This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark. Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.   For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon  ⁠patreon.com/fintaylor  Chapters: 00:00 - Bollocks  04:03 - Just The Tip  09:39 - Practical Muscles  14:06 - The Ultimate Triangle  17:07 - Money Talks  21:14 - Trail Mix  29:02 - The Irish Head  34:36 - And A Thumb  36:19 - Fin’s Beard  41:06 - Brazilian Brain Lift   43:45 - The Denim Phrenology   46:42 - The Cheeseburger  52:04 - Hair’s Back  57:17 - Beckham’s Cornrows    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Present's perfect pairing what pairs with Reacher on prime reaching for a sparkling punch delivered with prime You can enjoy a punch just like Reacher Entertainment meets fast delivery it's on prime It's a Finn versus history joining me to ratio goals and Anya Magliano Hello to get into male beauty standards let the rabbit see the dog oh Very interesting we're gonna really have our eyes open A new perspective. Yes.

Women find stuff attractive too. Yes. I'll believe it when I see it. It's really interesting to watch this play out already. Because you already saw the first episode. I saw the first one. I watched some of it. Yeah.

And then sometimes I went on my phone. It was very funny. Yeah. What did you think about the kind of, what do you think about men's view of women then, I guess, from that? I thought really positive. Yeah. Really positive.

Really solid. Yeah. Felt like you got to the nub of a lot of situation. It was objective, I think. Yes. It was objective. If anything, it was too objective. Birds I view.

Well, I don't want to bring feelings into things. I thought, are these guys asexual? Because they are refusing to comment on some of this. No. Yeah. No. We showed remarkable restraint. I guess the great difference, though, I think I would say this is probably a more

interesting topic because it's more complicated. Yes. It's got less strict rules, I believe. Well, you recommend men's beauty standard. Yes. Would you say that the gender you're trying to attract defines your beauty standards? Would you agree? Well, this is what's interesting about male beauty standards is that,

they're sort of to some extent set by men rather than women. But is that true? Well, we'll find out. Because if women only liked guys who like, you know. But, but we would think like that.

Hold on. Like, denim cut off. No, you know, you know what you mean. Yeah, like,

yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. Like, if that was like, these days, these days, he's getting loads of pussy that guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If straight women loved that. Yeah. Amazing hypothetical. Yeah. . If. then straight guys would be like that, wouldn't you think?

I don't know because I thought what was striking about the male beauty standards is it does feel like a lot of them are about like looking strong or good for war or stuff like that where I actually think it's for other men to look at and be like, this is nice for me. This was my thought during the Manosphere documentary was that you had these men who were ripped and bragging about money speaking to an audience of men using women as a prop to impress men. Yeah, totally. I totally agree. Yeah.

It's not actually straight at all, the manosphere. But I wouldn't say their male beauty standards. I think they're off the boil because I don't think that's what women find attracted. But that's what I mean. So when we talk about male beauty standards, this is really something that men think men should look like rather than women. Because women like soft men. Sometimes. They like soft bellies. Hold on.

Please. Let's slow down a tad. I'm being objective. Do not interrupt him while he's talking. I'm being objective. I'm a soft. scientist. All right, I'm walking. You've had two and a half women on this podcast. I'm going to leave halfway through. Correct me if I'm wrong. But for women, sexuality is tied more to ethereal concepts like, you know, whether you left the fridge door open that day. What, whether, what the direction the wind is blowing in. Is there a bit has there been a microaggression in the day? That's what I mean. It's unknowable. It's not as much. It's unknowable. For women, it is mostly about has there been a microaggression in your day.

Yes. And that's what a lot of people are missing. Yes. If there's been a microaggression in your day, you're horny as hell. I guess it's more like crystals, star signs. It's this. It's a load of shit. It's not a science.

No, it's not objective. You know, you can't test it. Whereas for men, women's beauty standards, it's objective. Well, you know, there is little. Tits ass. Yeah. Something in the middle for God's saying. Yeah.

Ideally. I think. But not. But not. But not too much. Not too much. Not too much. Unless you're into.

If there's nothing in the middle, we'll make do. Unless you're into that, which is fine. What I will say is I think it's a mix. Like, I think it might have gone too far the other way now. And there's too much focus on like men's vibes. And it's like, let's not forget that you need to look all right. So the ugly hot sort of revolution. Ugly hot revolution.

Yeah. Rodin' boy summer. Dad bod. Yep. I think, yeah. But I sometimes feel like women imply beauty standards of men to be like, we can do it too. But it doesn't last because your heart's not in it. Because you'll see a fat slob, but he'll have a confidence to him.

They'll just have an energy and you're like, no, I do find this more attractive than the muscle guy. And then you'll want that to happen for you guys from men, but it just never does. No. That's that brain-dead woman who's attractive has nothing interested to say, no, I still prefer her. Yeah. That's why I think we need to. No, no. We need to improve men's standard.

I prefer her now until I've come and then I'm sat. Because? Because I'm, she's awful. And she's an airhead. And I've come. So the problem is that male... You're a victim? Yes, I'm a victim.

Female beauty standards would be... Sorry, I'm sobbing over here. It's hard to hear. It's hard to hear. It's hard to... He's coming. She's an airhead. I didn't mean to get all Richard Gad on this podcast.

This is your Netflix stuff. This is my half man who's just come. I had sex with a gorgeous, boring woman. Yeah. And now I'm sad because she's boring. And I don't want to have sex for five minutes. Now, if men could set female beauty standards in the five minutes of personal clarity, they would think like women do.

Women are thinking of post-nuck clarity or pre-nuck clarity or just clarity because they're not really nothing. So do you see what I mean? There's a... But do you not think in that five minutes maybe it's just about changing what you do, watch YouTube video or something?

Maybe don't interact with her at all. Would you mean? Is that not coming... Now, would that not be rude to immediately come and start watching highlights on my phone? When she wants to cuddle. Is that rude?

Okay, that's going to make me reassess some of my past experiences. But again, you're half a woman, so I don't know if we can take your... Hold on. Whatever you just said. That's what you just said, isn't it? You're like a minor tour. God.

It's a fucking mousetrap. I've come on here to catch you out. I guess I think I've talked about this on stage, but it's interesting how what it takes for me to get off, like the erotic fantasy novel. Are you into the orthic fantasy novel? Yes, well, yeah, yeah. So like the way that they build these whole worlds

to get themselves off. And it can come out of the page that this like magical elf king is like reading. is like reading and then the opposite I guess. And you can close the book. That's sort of quite nice as well. You can start.

Yeah, I guess you can't close the video of your stepmom getting stuck in a washing machine. But you have to fuck her out of it. That's the thing. She's stuck. I'm saying it. She's stuck,

but this is what's interesting about that this is a male fantasy. Your stepmom gets stuck in the washing machine but she needs help. And the only way to help her to get her out to dislodge her is you have to fuck her out of it. Through the provider. Yeah.

So I guess that's our fantasy erotica is sort of, it's a bit more little. I think stepmom stuck in washing machine doesn't quite have the same on the page. I think on the page it doesn't quite have the same effect. Well, yeah, it would be shorter, wouldn't it? Harry Potter and the stepmom get stuck in a washing machine.

It doesn't quite have the same effect as like the crown of, what's the... The court of thorns and roses. Thank you very much. Yeah, well, that's all about like, it's like a peasant girl and she's like a normal human. Like, she's not that, she's like, not like other girls

because she like, trousers. Yeah, lesbian. Yeah. And then, um, there's a short hand for that. Yeah. And I'm in short. So what does that mean? Bisexual? Thank you. Um, we're learning. So she's like a peasant human girl and she falls in love with this fairy king. He's sort of sexy and he's the most, the fantasy I think is like, she's very powerful. She gets powers, right? He's the only person in the universe more powerful than her. But he fancies her. He chose her. He chose her. And what I also think is interesting, because I A friend of mine was reading a deal with the elf king.

Do you know that one? No. A woman who fucks an elf. All right. But it's also, I feel there's part of the fantasy is like a man listening to you. Yeah. Oh, God, yeah.

Like, even though we're in this other world and they've built all this stuff around it and they have like thousands of years of history. But fundamentally, it's a woman's talking. Yeah. And the guy's like not interrupting and listening. He asks the biggest fantasy. He asks a question and you're reading it

and you're going, oh God, I've come. I've actually come. Yeah. It's amazing. Those ears. So that's why they have those pointy ears is so they can listen to women. Yes, my God. The fuck.

That's it. It makes so much sense. All the information goes straight in the tip of the ear. But you know what it is? Just the tip. Just the tip, but for ears. Because the problem is that I sometimes, I tell myself, listen to the wife. Like, she'll like you're listening.

And then I come up with a solution. And I have to go, no, no, no, don't say that. Don't solve the problem. God forbid you'd be helpful. Solutions are poison. solutions drive the fanny up. It's the listening.

God, I'm learning a lot. Is that true? I think a well-time solution. You're bisexual. Oh, God, yeah. So you will like a solution at the right time. Yeah.

So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. Wow. And it's happened right now. Straight women don't want a solution. They don't. They want you to be just a sort of chasm for their problems that you...

It's validate the feeling. Yes, without solving the problem. It's a very, very hard. But that's got me out. Maybe that's because I'm bisexual. That's been a problem in my relationship I'm not validating the problem because sometimes it is invalid

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Or that. and enjoy via rail love the way i guess before we get into it do you have a what's your you know we've been chatting about how it's more vibes and less definable the aesthetics perhaps than than the female beauty standards yeah what would you say physically if it's possible to remove the competence and the microaggressions out of the picture yeah yeah what's your male in an objectifying way in an objectifying way so i think i used to be i used to be drawn in by this kind of kind of weak thinker. Sickly.

Sickly. Yeah. Like. Philosopher on his death bed. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The solitary genius. Yes. The male artist. Yeah. I think... One bad winter could kill him. Yeah. Yeah.

And one good kiss could heal him. Yeah. Okay. That's my book. Write it down. And I think, and I think I used to like... That's very much brain. That's about the brain.

Exactly. Yeah. I would go for men who can't really... leave the house and attended. Indoor, indoor boyfriends wants to keep them in. Because you're a homemaker? No, I wouldn't say so. Just because I think because they're too scared of the outside world.

Cats, right. Like indoor cats, yeah, I have an indoor boyfriend. But now I think I'm more interested in like, let's get some of this classic male beauty standards back. Tall, handsome, muscles. Right, so like the male Sydney, Sweeney sort of. Yes, but like still with a bit of like roughness. Jacob all Lordy.

Yes. Long man. I'll absolutely nail that. Yeah. Really proud. Really proud. Did you get that fed into your ear? I'm sure that you glitter in here this.

Jacob Elodie. But I do think, I still do think it is energy because I think you can meet someone who is physically attractive and if their if their vibes are bad. Like that's, that can be anti-sexual. It's harder for women to be to be all vibes based. So, yeah, you're going to a more masculine man. What do you think of, I feel like women don't. like men who take too much care of their beauty because that feels, that puts off this...

It's very enlightenment. The Enlightenment, as we saw in the last episode, is where people have to try and look attractive. Well, no, not quite regency. This is a bit afterwards where they're trying to look as natural as possible like I haven't tried to do anything. No makeup, make-up.

Because I guess it's not very masculine or sexy the idea that you're spending ages. No, it's not. Manicuing yourself. It should just exude out. You shouldn't be trying to attract women. They should find you attractive because you're chopping wood.

But as we'll see, this starts in the Victorian period. That actually starts in the Victorian period. Yeah, because there's periods where men wear way more makeup than women. Yes, and it's straight to wear makeup. I would say probably than most, I would say most women out of, if you're fancying men, you probably would fancy a guy who's like chopping wood, building bricks. Practical muscles. Yeah.

I once got a blow job after changing the tire on a higher car. Mad. From the mechanic? from the exhaust pipe. Not from the exhaust pipe. He fucked the car. I didn't fuck the car. He fucked the car.

My partner at the time was so taken with the practical that I'd exuded. Look at me. I'm on the edge of my seat. I'm desperate to go. Absolutely. Yeah. But it's, and you know, I didn't have to call my dad. Yeah.

You know, which would have made her fuck my dad. You knew you could have done during the blow job, though. Yeah, turn this out. So what, what you said? Help. Help! Can you come beat me up? I don't like this.

But it's about, you know, competency is a huge. That's why the manosphere lot, they're not even thinking about what women find attractive. No, no, no, no. Because it's not about that. It's about using women to impress men to give them money. Statist symbol. It's the same as the Lamborghini.

Totally. Sometimes even just making a decision, I would say, if I was on a date with a guy and he's just made a decision and booked the place. I'm like, well, where's the ring? Yeah. Yeah. I'm...

Where's a barrel bend me over? Not to put words in your mouth. You got what I was getting at. Yeah, I read between the lines. Um, anyway. Call the way, Terry. Can we get a barrel in here?

I need to be sped over. Barrel in a ring? Barrel in a ring. Yeah. I booked a jazz bar for after. Uh, yeah. A barrel, please, for the road. Yeah.

You get down on one knee. I'll bend over this barrel. We'll just get it done. Right. Right. We begin. Now, we started the last. episode with prehistoric standards. There's no real

record of male beauty standards because it was I suppose it was an irrelevance. Like caveman type thing? Yes. But I guess we can infer that if the ideal woman was sort of just boobs and a big waist because she was fertile, the ideal man would be I suppose. Cock and balls. Cock and balls. Big cock and balls ripped. Maybe nice arms.

Yeah. Maybe nice arms. He's basically on a pogo stick which is his massive knob that he's bouncing on. That's basically the ideal man. God, that's nice image. Can we get AI on that? So in ancient Egypt, this was broad shoulders and tiny waists. So this is where men... Triangle.

Yeah, men needed to have tiny waists in this time. But is that cause... Which I'd say it's unattainable, really. Get Johnny Bravo up, sorry. So this is kind of a male beauty standard. Dorito man. Yes. Like a Dorito figure.

And they'd also wear, they'd wear fake beards. Yes, Johnny Bravo's... So that's the sort of ultimate triangle. Yeah. That's your reference point for Egyptian history. Yeah, I think. They'd also wear fake... Look at that.

Look at that he's got Johnny Bravo's hair. Yeah. But is it. Is it just because, is it not just because they were drawing them on a wall? So they just kind of had to have a body that was easy to draw. You're right. That's interesting. We can only really infer what we see on a wall.

Yeah. And they might not have had that good. They could have been bad drawers. Yeah, they could have been bad. They could have had all sorts of body shapes and sizes, but there's just one guy who could only draw lines. But then he is responsible for setting the standard, isn't he? Yeah.

The man who draws the line. Yeah, exactly. And that's where the phrase comes from. Yeah, it's the rule of history. The phrase you've just said. The man who draws the lines says the standards. That's where that sounds from. Because you just said it.

and the kings would have fake bits so they'd shave their beards and then wear a really long thin phallic like beard that's fake bit nasty I don't like that at all because of the end is pretty nasty

is that doing anything for you it's doing the opposite things are closing over I see yeah things are webbing over down there I mean if you have a rectal dysfunction you can just use your fucking get your fucking chin the fanny

sorry no no no no no Finish that thought because I think there was more to it. But that's not going to be hard is... I think it might be.

I think it's quite... Because you wouldn't be able to get that naturally to have the curve at the end. You know, you'd have to be probably wrapped tight with oils. Yeah,

I don't think a beard should come out past the nose. I think that's a bit weird. Yeah. Let the nose be the front and center of the face. It's a different time. But again,

it's quite an androgynous phase. They weren't all out though. They are, I suppose. first people to try and work this shit out. But as we said, the pendulum sort of swings between two poles and it speeds up. We get to ancient Greece and this is where

male beauty standards really start. Because it's like women are irrelevant. Old men are fucking young boys. And it's all about, like all of the statues of men are so much more dramatic than the statues of women. Women, it's just kind of like quite soft bodies but the men are like really strong.

And naked. Yes. And this is where tiny cocks are... We talked about a lot of this. Well, yeah, you won't stop bringing up. Tiny cocks are seen as a prized possession. Well, something we talked about is that small cocks are old money.

They're classy. Yeah. They're tasteful. Okay. A big knob is vulgar. Money talks, wealth whispers. Yes. I do believe that there is just a silent sort of like, it's the old money aesthetic

of a small knob. It's a Rolex v. Amiga, you know? Yes. But it's been, it hasn't been handed down for many generations. You can't just buy your way into class You can't just smash your big knob And you know, get through the door Do you know what I mean? Wouldn't you agree?

I don't know if I'm agreeing with this I don't know, but it's interesting Where your parents from? Half Italian, half Polish Oh, there you go Yeah What does that mean? Your new money

Yeah Who, me? Yes Oh, okay Coming from an immigrant background So, but how's that And that's related to New money, that's why you're going off

You're like big flashy cocks Yeah, like a big flashy cocks Yeah, exactly It's not taste She can't. I should have known. I should have known that was where this was going. Old money. Old money. Landed. That's vulgar. That's just crass. Well, that's too big.

Thank you. And also they've got like different heads to a human. Forget about the heads. Yeah. So the Greeks would think that a large penis was synonymous with barbarism, foolishness and drunkenness. This is philosophers. So now here's, what do you think about this as a theory, which I'm figuring out? Right.

Is it because these guys who have the, the small cocks, the philosophers, the thinkers, are they thinkers because they're not getting as, they're not having as good sex because as cocks are small, so all they've got to do is think. Partly, why do we relate glasses to intelligence? It's because the guys with glasses aren't, aren't doing sport.

I got glasses late, right? But in general, that's where the stereotype comes from, right? The nerd are the glasses because they're not playing sport, they're studying, they're reading books. It's the same with the small knob, right? It was Plato who said, it is in. it is in actually to a young boy sadly

yeah I don't know it feels like is it which one came where's the starting point because these guys are clever but you know what they're not it's not actually the philosophers because this is the small cock is at the bottom

of a completely ripped six pack pecks this is called the Adonis belt or what it would now be called cum gutters I don't know if you're familiar with this I didn't know but you said that on the last one and I thought what's that? No, no, no, come.

Did you look it up? Oh, is that what the V is? Yeah, the V. Oh, I know it is the V. Guttus for come. Who's come? The guy's come? Yes.

Well, it depends. He's coming on himself. Yes. He shouldn't be doing that. If he's got cum gutters. I feel that's the irony, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Get that in.

People like me really need cum gutters. The amount of cum, I'm just getting up my belly. Yeah, exactly. Just get stuck in my fucking folds. I've got to wash myself out. He's got cum ravines. Yeah. I've got cum trenches.

Yeah. But yes, there's gutters for cum to run down. But the problem is it running down. It's just going straight on your balls. It doesn't feel. If you're Turkish or that way inclined, the cum gutters run straight into your thigh brows, which means it's just a complete mess.

Or all these words. Thib brows. Thibrow. That's for a hairy. There's a bisexual woman, you really should be familiar with thigh brows. Oh, see, I think I know, okay, okay, I know what these are. I just didn't know all the terminology.

Gutters is actually known as the Adonis belt. Right. So this is what the Greeks, their beauty standard is having a very, very sculpted. But interestingly, to what you said earlier, not overly muscular, because that implies their neglecting intellectual pursuits and, you know, poetry and all that stuff, which I think is a trend that still lasts today. Definitely. You see the big gym guys.

Yeah, you know they're neglecting their poetry. Yeah, exactly. You're not reading. The personal trainers who are messaging me on Instagram, you know that they're not going to be the greatest thing. They're not reading Tolstoy. you know honestly the things I'm teaching Tyreek I mean he's not overly muscular but he's a 25 god

you're teaching each other a lot of stuff it's quite a symbiotic relationship we are we are this is your personal trainer yeah yeah I recently told him that the reason Los Angeles is called that is because that half America used to be Spanish and he was like fucking what wow what does he taught you he's helping me get up the stairs so it's a real

symbiotic relationship now when we get into ancient Rome I guess it's very similar to Greek it's it's I think I don't think they value small cocks quite as much as the Greeks. It's a more active culture. It's more about what you do.

It's a martial culture. Yes, it is. So you need a bigger nod now because you're going to try and suppress the ghouls. There's not much difference in what it is for men. It's like how mussely are you, I would say. Don't you think it's sort of going from like, like look quite mussely or look a bit less mussela? Well, this is in the ancient world.

Yeah. It's going to change quite rapidly. Okay. But it's, as male beauty is much more centred than you could get away with less as an ugly guy back then it feels. Like, ugly guys get away with murder now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fucking out. But he didn't have podcasts. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think the clavicular we'll get on to, I guess it's starting to end the kind of the reign of ugly guys

because now it's setting standards. Do you think we've been living in an ugly? It's now like importing eating disorders to men. Mm. Yeah. Well, there's a thing, what was it called? Big Egregia,

which sounds made up. I can't believe that's actually called. The bigorexia is a part of the Adonis complex. Right. Which is where a men. a man would become pathologically obsessed with an unattainable physique. Oh, getting tiny, getting like Ariana Grande. They'd say they're too small, so they want to get big.

But big erexia sounds made up. They love to stick rexia onto the end of any word. Yeah, it makes it seem a lot more traumatic. I want to get into the medieval, the Dark Ages, because this is where the modern kind of grunge really begins. It's similar to with women where, you know, vanity is seen as a sin. Yeah. So you've got to look as fucking ugly as possible.

Yeah. Because you should be thinking about God. You should be thinking about yourself. So there's a guy called Saint-Simon Stilitis, or something like that. Good guy. Who was a saint who were one of these guys who never washed because dirtiness symbolizes purity. He lived above a small platform for 37 years, neglecting his body to focus entirely on his soul. He would bound his waist with palm leaves that then rotted into his flesh.

His wounds then became infested with maggots, and he would replace any that fell off with new ones. well I don't think people are going that man's incredibly soulful do you know what is the soul name at that point? But Annie is looking at him going I can fix him I'm looking at him going get me at top that platform

move up a barrel please a barrel please one that confess on that platform you want to be one of his maggots I want to do you think he bound I just think I hear that

and I go well this is before king this is he's bounding himself this is a guy who's into Shavari but he didn't have they didn't have maggot play they didn't have maggot play back there So he was struggling. I mean, I imagine you're probably the close thing

to a kink correspondent we'd ever have on the show. Yeah. Is Magut play a thing? Straight down the barrel of the camera. Yes. Yes. Disgusting. I think it can be.

What's the good, Charlie? Formicophilia, I think. Have we thought we have? We got formusophilia. Formo. I've got Formo Fomo. This type of guy, St. Simeon Stylitis, or this is my type of guy.

That's what I said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Before. Like in my before period, this is a type of guy I go for. I had a boyfriend. Wasting away on a. on a platform. Skinny, emo.

Emo. Because he's thinking all the time. I had a boyfriend who told me that he was like, you don't actually need to brush your teeth because they're self-cleaning. And you found that attractive? That was, I was... He's a thinker?

Yeah. He was like, well, because we've invented toothpaste. But like, before we had toothpaste, they would have just self-clean. So he's trying to talk himself out of bad breath, basically. Yeah. So, yeah, basically, you had to look as much of a mantra as possible. But why is that?

Because... Why do they think God, wants everyone to be manta. Well, it's because to... It's all about distractions, right? It's vanity as a sin. Right. One of the sins.

But God might want everyone to be sort of eights and above. But then... It could be quite an insecure guy though. He wants to be the hottest. Yeah, I think so. I think there's a level that everyone's hotter than him. Theologians would argue that altering the body insults what God's created. Oh, that's a big thing.

It's a creationist. So this is where it's the kind of stinky ages. Apart from in the Islamic golden age, which is where grooming is very important, as is perfumes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then it's interesting, again, to my point earlier, the male sense, is that something that men are doing because it confirms their masculinity? One thing to go against the theory, though, that men are trying to impress other men,

is I think if you could do it into four sections of, like, lesbians, gay guys, straight men, straight women, you're all trying to track different people. Completely erased. I believe that's called by erasure. You're greedily spreading across two, right? But there's still four segments, but just because you've got long legs, doesn't mean you're not, you're not still on the graph. It's about who you're trying to attract, right?

Gene shorts, you're trying to attract both at the same time. Yeah. A little bit of leg for the fellas. A little bit of mystery for the ladies. Yeah, yeah. But gay guys, if you go to, if you go to gay guys who are trying to attract other men,

then it's very different to straight guys. Totally. So like it's, when it's for other men, then it becomes quite effeminate, actually. No, but then there are like bears and like daddy. Yes, but there's a, there's a, there's still,

there's still a femininity underneath it and it's a little bit you're performing straight masculinity in quite a draggy gay way sure sure sure straight men aren't before I guess some of them are

like the lumberjack straight man if you do it at the gay it's still like maybe it's tucked in and the shirts are tighter around the muscles and stuff all the muscles are bigger then you look

and then the one so it's not possible not possible I've talked a lot about how I want more lesbian representation representation on TV because I don't understand understand what's going on there.

Gay guys, I've, no, gay guys, I've seen a lot of films about it. I kind of get it. The rules make sense. Lesbians, I don't, the rules don't really make sense to me. It's not really clear what's going on.

What's the question? It's two negative poles on magnets meeting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like, I'll see lesbian couples, and I'm still trying to work out what the rules of the game are. Yeah.

It's less about, uh, the way you present yourself, maybe. I think so, but I think you can also have lesbian couples that kind of still fall into, slightly more masculine one, slightly more feminine. Yeah, definitely.

I see that and that kind of makes sense. But then you also have the other. You have all variations. There's a very wholesome type of lesbian couple. Trail mix. Yes. Trail mix, sensible shoes, long walks. Yeah.

Where from the straight male perspective, you go, well, what's going on? Because straight men are just doing the long walk in order to bend them over a barrel. So you're going, where's the barrel in all this? Yeah. Right? Because from our dirty perspective,

we can't see that with a lesbian couple. With gay men, we go, well, yeah. That's just, you're just, two of me. You're just too fucking. Yeah. Oh, I see. Where is that? You're thinking, with two lesbians, you're thinking, well, they're both listening. So who's talking? Yes. Exactly. It's just a void of listening. It's an empathy void. What's the point of how big ears if no one has a mouth? Yeah. They've got empathy gutters running down their bodies. There you go. Empathy gutters. It's like two Mr. Potato homes. I'm sorry. Uh, uh, uh, research has just got lesbian, lesbian culturals types. You brought that up

quickly, Phoebe. On one end, you got lipstick and you got high heels. On the other end you've got Butch, which is like a sort of racist policeman's hair cart. But in the middle, you've got jean shorts, which you're literally wearing right. So you're rich stem chapsticks. Stem chapsticks? That's interesting. So that would be science technology engineering. Is that what that kind of demo?

Is that how that means? Yeah, yeah. Right. But what does it represent about, I guess, um, gay male relationships, it's very like transient and quick that they're, they're sleeping with lots of people stereotypically. Grindr, you meet someone who's, it's, it's, that sex is very regular with many different partners. Yes, lesbians, if I'm wrong, you meet a lesbian and then you cycle through relationship being too fast than anyone. So what's that? Is it because you talk so, you're,

you're both talking so much, you get through all the emotional beats quicker? Yeah, I haven't ever actually fully done that. Right. But I've had, I guess in the beginning, in the first week, it can go a lot. Like, you're like, oh, wow, we're really getting into this trauma stuff. But then if I, I think even with all these stereotypes, like, then you have to add in the mix. of whatever your personal baggage is and I have the personal baggage of a straight man. So that's slowing me down. Oh, interesting.

I think. So that makes you maybe read more lesbian even though maybe you're less lesbian and your preferences. I don't know. Because you've got the straight man bag baggage. I just mean like I had commitment issues. Right.

Also what I've heard is that the lesbian breakup is the worst breakup of all. That's it apparently... But then lots of lesbians are friends with their exes. Well, from what I've heard is that like when it breaks down, that's like the most... Well, the gay men is the best. exit, isn't it?

Straight rebound immediately. Just go the next services. Bang, done. You're getting a blow job. Exactly. High five. You're both fighting over fixing the wheel. I'm fucking each other off.

It's perfect. 69ing underneath the car. With guys admitting they're bisexual, there's like internalised homophobia. Do you think that that exists with women? Or do you think it's just a gut? Is it easier for women to be like, I'll kiss a girl?

I think there's a bit of like, it's not real. There's a bit of biphobia. Like, it is in like, oh, everyone kisses, everyone, all girls kiss girls are beautiful. We all look at it. There's no male equivalent. I sucked up as well. I liked it.

I'm not gay. I had my first, I'm not gay though. My first boyfriend was like, I'm going to give a guy blow job to check that I'm not into this, which I actually really respected. Yeah. Begin, that's quite a straight thing to do.

I'm just to check this. Let me check what's going on down there. I'm not going to talk or maybe explore this. I'm just going to go, it's like your dad saying, yeah. You need a filter right there. Just tapping walls. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You could not play with that's cheap shit. You could knock through that, I reckon. I don't want to, though. But you could? I could. I could blow that back out, but I don't want to. I don't want to. Maybe we should get a guy into that out.

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Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands, the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Anyway, we're now into the Renaissance, where the classical body is rediscovered, and this is where we get the Vitruvian Man. So again, it's all about symmetry at this point.

Vitruvian Man is that Jesus doing Starjohns. Now, that's my type. Now, yes. So he has sort of, it's less ripped than the Greek, but it's all about proportionality. And this is where they start saying that the perfect male body should be like, is it five heads?

Yeah. Five heads tall and then five heads wide, something like that. So the total height is eight heads, torso four heads, legs four heads, arms band equal to total height. These Irish heads? No, whatever head. Your own head in your own body. Right, right, right. Which is why the Irish looks so funny.

Now, there is, no, listen, there is a specific, no, come on. No, he's a real good action now. Just to be sincere for a minute. Yeah. You get serious. There is a, you can spot someone who's eyes. Irish from behind. Go on. Because the shape of their head

is particular. The Irish heads are phenomenon that they would admit themselves. All right. It's as distinct as bust as... I can't think of it. Have you been to Stonehenge? No. Well that's what a crowd of Irish people look like on the back. Dublin is it also a lot.

Yeah. I was looking Stonehenge, not an island. Very big heads. More fool me. Very big heads. But they've also got So much face. So I'm literally, unfortunately, my only reference point

right now is Paul Meskell. Irish head. Big Irish head. Big Irish head. Anyways, is this has got an opportunity to phrenologize, Ania.

Oh, it's true. Actually, we should, we just started this thing. So it's like, we're trying to do a top gear leader board of, it's sort of like,

what would you say, racial science for the 1900s that has been discredited, but you're trying to recredit? Well, there's a lot of truth. We're going to measure your skull, and we're going to rank,

we're going to find out what your IQ is. Perfect. So there's two measurements, Anya. The length of your forehead, how many fingers that is, is your intellectual capacity. Is it my fingers? Yes, yes. Yes, yes.

So you got four fingers. I got a thumb. That's good. You're sneaking that in. I think you're being greedy there. Yeah, there's a bit of room there. Do you think? So four and a half.

So Paddy got three. Four and a half. So it shows that you are more of a thing of the Paddy. That tracks. That tracks. So hang on. So Horatia hasn't got his mic. So he's now measuring the width of your head.

And it's the point. proportion. Getting in there a bit more, yeah. It's a proportion. It's tricky that because it's close to that big whisk that women use to break themselves off. Can you do it again? Can I have it? Maybe have this off.

Okay. So seven inches, same as Paddy. So you actually have the same animal. Are you sure? You got the same. Depth of head. Depth of head. Okay.

But a bigger forehead, which means your more mental balance. Yeah. Your lizard brain and your thinking brain are more in sync. Yeah. And you're more cerebral. person. So right, that's our first two. And we're just plotting a graph. Patti and you're both seven inches head to back.

Have you done anyone else? No, this is the beginning. It's been a long run. Have you done yourselves? A truth of knowledge just never turns the calipers on the top. Never turn the calipers in yourself. So you have the Renaissance where they rediscover the classic form and then you have this 17th, 18th century, Baroque ideal. Who the fuck is this guy? Where essentially white guys are black women. They wear wig. Yes. You know, they shave their heads

and they wear these extravagant wigs. It's all about not being tanned. So they will wear powder to symbolise the fact that they don't work in the fields. Right. And that they spend their time indoors because tans is like a worker's tan. Right.

So that means you're poor. And this is all about being as like sheltered as possible from any kind of hard work. Yeah. So this could be the least I could relate to a male attractiveness. Yes. I think a white pointy wig is as far. from what I can see.

And white face and just powdered. Yeah, I don't know. Some of these guys must have had amazing, amazing riz. Because I think that is actually like, do you think it's maybe part of this? Like, sometimes I think with fashion, it's like, like with like Harry Stiles

or like David Bowie, it's like, I'm going to wear something fucking insane to prove how strong my sexuality is. And to be like, if I'm looking insane and you still find me hot, like what does that say about me? Why a very attractive woman can shade their heads. Yes, exactly. And it's like, I'm still sexy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. regardless, that's like the ultimate flex. Totally. But this is all men. This is not like a Harry styles. This is not all men or wigs. But this is not like, it's not Harry Styles in a world of Jimbrose going, I'm wearing collots. Fuck you, dad.

Yeah. This is the standard. The standard is to wear wigs. So you would have blokey blokes in powdered face and big wigs because I presume they still acted like men. Well, yeah, that's what, I guess that would be interesting. In high heels. Yeah. Always.

clap it and they've got a powdered face on and they've got a fucking wig on slow clapping a woman trying to park a carriage you know the baroque builder with a powdered face and a wig go on let's get out of it

there's a bunch of puffs and they'll clip clap away so this is all the French Revolution saw the grand renunciation masculine the great male renunciation so they're rejecting ostentation ostentatious court fashion.

Yes. Makes sense. It didn't last very long. Well, it's kind of the 18th century is the sort of, that's the Baroque period, right? So you then get into Victorian masculinity, which is much more recognisable to us. The Victorian strong man. Yes. This is where...

Muscular with a moustache. Because of the industrial revolution, because the industrial revolution, it becomes much more tied to work. So you get workwear. Yeah. So... Carhart. And beards. Beards become massive.

But beards were already in... In Egypt. well yeah 3,000 years early Beards are just in and out in and out In the Victorian age The beard represents

More than sexuality It's wisdom Right The length of your beard Shows how smart you are They also Yes ironically They thought that the beard

Would stop Would stop bad Like particles Getting in your mouth But then it became so disease rid But you have a beard Yes I have a bit Why

My toxic trait is that I get food In my beard Almost every time I eat But did you Did you choose It as a fashion choice Or was it like If I'm eating Greek yogurt

and my wife sees me, then when there's yogurt in my beard, then there's none of that happening tonight. I know that. But there was a point where I had, I can grow fantastic, yeah, well,

that's a filter. Yeah, that was a filter. Go on the moustache. I can grow a sedan moustache. Wow. And I would like to get an enough body fat down that I can have a chin that can come out.

He also had a right wing haircut at the time. So it's trying to, you need to balance it out. Exactly. I think big mustache, long hair. Because yeah. But I,

yeah, I basically had a beer since I was 17. innocent. Yeah, 18, 19. And how do you feel, if you, if someone were to shave it, would you feel very, very, um, exposed? I feel lost. Yeah, I'd feel, I feel exposed. Weak. Weak. Cowering. You've got something else, moustache. I got a moustache. And a lot of people think it's like a statement or a choice, but I'm playing the face I was dealt. And that's what everyone does with facial. Yeah, that's, so that that's my question is, is it actually about wisdom? Is it actually about covering stuff up? You're playing the face, you're dealt. So what's going on between your nose and mouth? What are covering up? I got a small nose, so I distract. I distract. So I've got a small nose. So I distract. So I distract. So I distract from with a moustache but I got all right cheekbones so I can keep them out. A lot of people with a big beard they're trying to hide a weak chin. So the only reason I'm doing this,

people think, I've had a moustache for years so people just think it's like trying to brand. No, it's just you play the face you dealt. Facial hairwise. But at this point men would be able to wear beards as like a statement. Yeah. It was big beards were better. It was a Taliban era sort of.

Yes, totally. Yeah. And it was a, you would show off your masculinity by how big a beard you could grow. Also, this is where phrenology comes into it because phrenology was the height of, I mean, this is like Victorian dating apps were phrenology based

in that you would want to phrenologize someone. So if some point a dating ad out in the newspaper in the Times. Yeah, looking for some women with a big forehead. Which indicates... Bring that back. Yeah. I'd clear up. Although it's the sexual desire

is all based in the back of the head, supposedly. animal thing. Oh, okay. So I need to get that bigger. Yeah, it's already pretty big. Put your hair up. Put your hair up.

Bebeal for the back of my head. Yeah. Brazilian brain lifts. Show off the back of you, the base of your skull. Show how big that is. There's a button there that if someone pushes, you're horny.

Yeah, it's all like a cod piece at the back of your head. It's science. Okay, okay. You wouldn't get it at science. The emmatic organ. Okay, yeah. This is what we say

we need to get women into stem. Yeah. Phrenology. Yeah. So the idea that men's brains are larger explained by they're more sexual as beings because they've got bigger heads,

larger brains. Phrenologists said that the larger the person's amateur faculty, the more attractive, they were towards the opposite sex. Interesting. So this is kind of, I guess, trying to explain pheromones. Okay, yeah. Which I suppose is another way of saying this vibe thing. Something untethered

to anything that's just there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, unknowable, unexplainable. However, if the back of the head was too large, the person could be prone to obscenity. What's that mean? I, Padi. Yes. What's obscenity mean? Well, it's just sort of like

a horny little rabbit. Being a hoarded. Right, okay. Actually sounds quite nice. Yes. Yeah. So, and obviously it's all about

practical masculinity. So, you know, this is where the, roll at your sleeves. Yeah, workwear. Look at that.

That's Victorian work where. Into the 20th century. That's quite Protestant. Yes. Into the 20th century. And this is where you get the first male sex symbols, first pinups,

which is silent film stars. Right. Which is where they kind of, It becomes more about class, senous and approachability while still being a bit rugged. Yeah. You know?

So this guy is called Rudolf Valentino. Supposedly women fainted. Does look a bit like David Gandhi. Supposedly when he died. There was thousands of fans flood the streets and women killed themselves because they're so... Killed themselves. That's what it says.

Well, he's kind of like the ultimate man you can project onto because he's silent. So as a woman, it's kind of perfect. It's like hot guy, never heard in people. a word in his life. When he dies, of course I'm going to kill myself. Is it not a bit icky that he's like miming? Isn't miming a massive turnoff?

Miming is such an ick. Miming is such an ick. I want to get to the 50s where, you know, much like women had bullet bras and they were, their beauty was tied to their sort of domesticity. The white goods revolution. Yes. The bullet tits revolution.

Men became, it became very kind of basic masculinity. Denim leather jacket. Hold on. Denim is masculine. now. Yes. But that's the part of the performance of the gay man with the denim.

Got it. Because you're playing with the performance. Not denim cutoffs. Yeah. We don't, we're not cutting the denim. True denim all the way down. Look, look.

You go denim boot cut straight. Denim shorts, bisexual. Denim cutoffs, gay. Okay. However long your denim is. This is modern phrenology for the legs. But also let's flip that.

That was for men. Get your leg out again. Just to so I can do it. Lesbian boot cuts. That's lesbian. Shorts, bye. and then Den and Cuzzles straight. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a science. It does work. It's a science. I mean, some of the stuff you say, it's a stop clock in here. So James Dean,

he was only in three films, but he has seen such a symbol. Yeah. It does, it just feel like it's all, it changed with him. It's not going back to traditional masculinity. It's something new. It's rebellious.

Yeah, this is, rebellious. Yeah, boy, like it's the line that Timothy Shalamey's. Not Dean Gaffney, Charlie. No, not Dean Gaffney. Close. We're getting there.

We'll get to Dean Gaffney shortly. It's definitely the immortal. It's a mix of like, emotional. A lot of effort is just going into the hair. It's almost like, we'll concentrate on the hair. That's enough.

But I suppose this is, I guess, slightly that he's taking something from the Baroque period. Yeah. We've been through the Victorian era where it's like, you don't want to look rugged.

And now, you know, you're spending a bit of time on your hair, actually quite a lot of time. The whole teddy boy jelly roll thing. They had a hairstyle called a duck's ass. Yeah.

Which was where it falls. The perfume that men war. Yeah. So that's, um, Teddy boy hair. I mean,

that's insane. Yeah. That must have taken hours. Looks like the room. I don't find that. Yeah. That's lesbian. Yeah,

that is very lesbian. I don't find that a tall attractive. That's very primeval, isn't it? That's like a monkey that's got like a sort of fany on its head. Like a male monkey's like, uh, you know, just kind of peacock stuff.

Yeah. But that, but then if that, if that's wanting to attract a woman. Um, sorry, he. Yes.

That can't be. Yeah. That's not. he's signing out what he's looking for. Right, yeah, he's sort of showing. If you're not like this, then I'm all to want to talk to. It's like one of the guys that have big unicorn horns and he's like, cat car driver with Mr Johnson holding up instead.

He's just running up. At an airport, Fanny please. Yeah. Alex Turner rocked here. Alex Turner's kind of cool. Alex Turner's, I would say Alex Turner's doing it in a slightly understated way, whereas I, and I do

think that gap is like a massive difference. Yeah, but you know, it's trial and error. Some people get it wrong, you know? I think, you know, he just didn't like. on his feet that he has not landed on his feet and it's mainly upset. And obviously, beards go at this point, it's all about smooth shape, clean shaven, working man, you know, domestic bliss, all that. Yes.

Now, in the 60s, uh, as civil rights enters the kind of culture, the afro starts to be worn more, uh, obviously by black communities in America, but then it's so popular by the early 70s, the white afro comes in, whites are purming their hair. Charlie, you probably could do a wafro if you pushed it. You've got it in your locker. It naturally is there, but it's like kind of, it looks like a brush. It's like permy.

Yeah. We said it looks like a microphone. It's like a microphone. It looks like a microphone. Right. It just grows directly upwards. Yeah. Rather than that way.

Right. But if you, if you've flicked it enough, could you not? I'm trying to get it to that point, but I have to wax it until I can actually like properly beef it out. Yeah.

I have to wax it. Wait, so you mean it would only grow upwards like a line? It grows directly upwards. But in everything goes like out. Like a cartoon. Oh, okay. So it's not like Mar Simpson.

Right, right. I want it to be more out, whereas currently it's like, it is like a microphone. Yeah. But then we get to, this is, now this is the standard that I adhere to.

I would like, this is where I would like to get to. Okay. Beefcake. Yes. It feels like this is bad. Bert Reynolds. Well,

I genuinely, I'm being genuine here, I think this is the masculine ideal for me. Yeah. Is that like, as in what you want to be or what you would be attracted to. I would like to fuck that guy.

Yeah. I want to fuck that guy right now. I want that guy to bend me over a barrel. This is the masculine ideal for me. This is what I would like to look like in an ideal world. Yeah, okay. This is where I'm working, working towards where there's a sort of... This is where Tyreek is trying to get you.

Tyreek's trying to get me to the Benhamers. Yeah. Oh, look at that. He's going, what? And then you're paying more money a little. So it's, uh, it's, this is where chest hair comes in. Yeah. Deep tans.

Yes. Sort of macho. Tom Selleck. Tom Selleck, of course. High wasted jeans, you know, you're showing off your package. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're getting the rug. Yeah.

You know, but it's also, it's not, they're not like, ripped, ripped. It's working muscles. Yes. It doesn't look like gym. It's a bit of fun. Yeah. It's a bit like we have a bit of fun, by the way. Yeah.

We're not in the gym every day. We're not pushing around packages every day. Exactly. You could lift a woman up. Yeah. And smacked, but also you'd smash a cheeseburger. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. One in each hand. Exactly. Yeah. So what does this do for you? Is this a masculine ideal for you? Would you say at the minute?

So do you know what? I wouldn't say, I do like it. But it's not, it's really interesting. There's something about it that is like, a little bit of a turn off but I can't quite figure out what it is. It reminds you of your dad probably. Well, no, that would be a turn on.

Would it? Come on. This is basic stuff. Is it? Basic stuff. The more like my dad, the better. Yeah. But surely there's a point where it passes and it turns you off because it's your dad.

It's your dad. It's at the point where it's on a hundred percent match. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit of a turn off. So what do you think, can we get closer to where you're at sexually at the minute? So we got, if it's that, what, what, let's move this to what mask and I deal. So how tall is this guy? I guess maybe he looks a bit short, like a short kid.

No, no, no, no, no. He's wearing high-waisted trousers. Maybe it's... Is there a male celebrity at the minute who kind of epitomizes your male sexual ideal? So I wouldn't say I'm like going out of my way. Shalameh. What's your opinion on Shalamay? No, so that I've done that.

I've been there and I've done that. I had to... You know, that's like to Timothy Chalemma? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Been there, that out. Wow. Slick of it. Flir of that out.

Yeah. I fucked him. Been there done that. I had a boyfriend who looked so much like Timothy Shalame. Puckish. Before Shalemore was a thing. Yeah, sort of like, um, dainty. Yeah.

Dainty. Gets bruised by the wind. Yeah. Yeah. Virgin. Ben Kentish. Why have you got Ben Kentish up? What did you find out of Ben Kentish for the other than you see?

Been there, done that. I say, Ben Kentish is about down the line as you can get. All right. He's not shalmer at all. Is he doing something for you, Charlie, Ben Kentish? Not at all. Not at all. I try to find me like that I fancy.

Sorry, Ben Kentish. What about Tom Swartwick? Now what about John Cleese. Hey? Now. My hear me out is early John Cleese. Well, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Okay. When he's shouting at it. Yeah. But has he lost his hair at this point? Early John Clee's like, yeah, like five, ten years ago. The hair line. It's really it's height. Height is crucial.

I'm enjoying height. I think height's always been one of the most. That's probably the most vapid women get with sexuality is the hype thing. That's the thing that a lot of angry incels throw back at women. Yes. It's kind of the most male thing that women have is that they're very quite strict with height. And you guys can't really do anything about it, which is what's like... Okay, can we get leg extenders?

God, okay, I'm not sure I actually back this with what? Oh, no, that's kind of nice. Yeah, no. There's something about it for sure. Get, there we go. So what you do is you break the bone, then you extend it with like a... Yeah, do more of that. Yeah, they fully disable themselves.

You can barely walk, but you get like maybe a three inches taller. But you have to sit down all the time. So just get a high chair. Yeah. Just get a high chair. Do you know what I have? What I do know. about my type is I don't think I've ever dated a blonde man.

Interesting. Okay. Sorry. So that's you out. It feels like a person. But what do you in that is? I don't know. I used to think of myself as a,

I like that because in one direction, my favorite one was Nile. Interesting. So I think that was actually more of like a let's be real about this. Let's be real about. What do you mean? Like which one could I get? Oh, I see.

Attainable. Yeah. He's dumb, easily tricked. Yeah. Nile isn't a natural blonde. Okay. So, sorry. Sorry.

Furious. Research. Isn't an actual blonde? You're kidding. Well, maybe that's why I was attracted to him. Because deep down, he had the spirit of brunette. So the beefcake era now in some, this is where there's like a fork in the road. So you've got

the 70s beef cake, my ideal. Yeah. And then... But you like beef cake as well. I like cake. I like beef. But then you have, it kind of doubles down where you get the Schwarzenegger bodybuilding. Yes, that's where it's getting. Yeah, I don't like that for sure. The handbrake is off.

we're all going all in, getting as big as possible. And then you have the other path, which is Andrewjley, Bowie, neuromantic, heroin, basically. Playing with gender. Yes. As if it's just nothing.

Yeah. As if it's just some sort of play thing. It's incredibly serious. It's been taken. It's restrictive. It's a box. It should stay in it. But Bowie and Jagger,

those gender traitors, they wear makeup, jewelry, platform shoes. Gender terrorists, is what I call. Gender terrorists. Yeah. And then

Meanwhile, the brave guerrilla fighters of Schwarzenegger and Stavotis Dillon are trying to keep a grip on masculinity. They're not, they're playing.

I mean, women, women don't get involved in this at all as well. How far could he throw you? How, well, I'd like to know. There you go.

Yeah, I would like to know. But I don't, but I don't find that attractive that's too much arm for me. That's, that's like... Yeah, it's a lot. This is what we were saying about dicks.

It's like two arms. What's saying about dicks? It's clumsy. It's clumsy. It's come. It's drunken. Maybe you've actually won me around. So obviously I'd say the 80s is probably the worst time for male hair, I would say.

Hair is the biggest thing, I think. Go on. I think you can get away with a lot if you've got a good head of hair. So I guess the other vain thing that women throw at men, it's the height and the baldness. That's another big one. Short bald guy. Game over. But interestingly, yeah.

Game over. Shout out. Sorry to a lot of your viewers. Most of our patrons are short bald guys. That was the sound of 30,000 people. turning off. But so now in Hollywood, as we see with the Zen pic, there might be the death of sort of fat people in the media with Turkey.

Yeah, hair response. We're going to, yeah, we're not going to, we're not going to see a balding hair transponders. I do think there's something missed. Let's get Robert Duval on. So like the 70s hair line, I do think women. There was a ruggedness. But didn't you think I thought bald was maybe going to have a comeback? Look at this.

Oh, no. No, no, no. And you don't understand. He's 29 in that photo. That's phenomenal. not think I thought for a moment bald would be back when Charlie XEX married a bald guy. Yes. That could have been huge.

If they knew, that's true. Right. Don't you wouldn't you say? Because I think gays rock bald quite well because you shave it off confidently, you wear a vest. Yeah. And that tight vest bald thing kind of works. I think it's a bit different to like England fans. But he's not gay.

Yes, but he's playing with the Dalston thing. He's playing once again. They're both, they're both, they're both actually quite a committed straight couple. Very different to my queer baiter. You actually rattle. Yeah, cages. You put queer people. But then I'm thinking more about the mullets in the 80s.

Oh, yes. What now you'd say is present-day Australian fashion. Yeah, very nice. Australian culture is now starting to become global. Yeah, to catch an up. So you have the mustache, the mullet. The 90s, again, we lose the muscles, and it sort of settles. Curtains, Titanic.

Beacom. The curtains era. This is what I probably go. This is why I have shown in hairdressers. But this is once again, I'm playing the hair I've got, but I would probably go 90s. Do you know,

I kind of think, given the types of images I used to show at the hairdressers, I would go into the hairdressers and just show a picture of a girl who, in retrospect, I just fancied. Beyonce. Yeah.

Yeah. Can I have this? And they'd just be like, okay, we can't do that. But is that the same for guys when you're taking in a photo to the hairdresser? Is it a little bit like,

oh, he's just hot? It's pretty embarrassing. I think it's more I want to be that guy. Yeah. It's more. It's one of the most vulnerable, humiliating things. Through the barrel of the gun. For a straight man to go into a barbers and be like, this is a guy.

Can I look like him, please? It's humiliate. He looks happy. What would you say usually? I'd go Leo 90s. But it's more, it's not my favorite look. I just don't. Timothy Dalton.

Timothy Dalton. That's like a thing on TikTok now is they'll say like if you want to look at your hottest self, you should find a celebrity. looks kind of like you and then copy everything they do. Have you heard that? That's a great bit of advice. It's basically like, look at the colours they wear. But mine's probably Peter Dinklage up.

What sort of fits is he wearing? Well, you need leg reduction surgery first of all. Yeah, I guess I'll wear. Yeah, maybe. Beard. Oh, yeah, Pat. Yeah. Because what I'm sort of doing is I'm doing the pretty boy aesthetic

with a sort of chopped face. So it's kind of like, yeah, I don't know if he's got any sort of style. that I'd be copying. Yeah. Who's your... I'm still figuring it out. I haven't figured out. Maybe Chapel Rhone, maybe.

I guess I had that a bit, but I think that's more just because of having red hair. That's probably what tricked me. You tricked me. Gender terrorist. We need to wrap up. We're being attacked. I thought we were getting Chapo Roan on the podcast.

We're being attacked by gender terrorists still. We need to get through the metrosexual phase. Of course, the 2000s. Beckham was wearing a sarong. Yes. I mean, Beckham, he charts. Turns the world gay for a decade. Did Beckham have an impact on you guys?

He had a impact on everyone. There were kids with Mohawks. But his influence, no, no, no, no. His influence on, he's probably the most influential man on male hair ever. Yeah. He would do new hairstyles every year and whatever he chose was the hair. A generation. It's going through his hairstyle.

That's kind of amazing to get that point. Let's get Beckham meeting Mandela. Now this is Beckham's best haircut. What you're going to meet, maybe the most iconic black. man of all time, potentially Mandela. The most iconic man of the 20th century, potentially. He goes in Cornrose. Now, that's

a confident hairstyle. Corner's and a fleece. That's equality. Okay? He's fixed racism. That's modern day South Africa. Okay? Oh my. I're only doing that. You're only doing that post-apartheid. Yeah. A man who has such good hair that he can do whatever he wants with it seemingly.

Who my meeting, Mandela? Cornrose, please. Yeah. Like, Waguan, Nelson. Look how small his forehead is, okay? He's not aware of what one that has done. He's a hymn boat. You can't wear corners and a cardigan and be white. Beckham can't.

You could. I guess that was his equivalent. Favorite Beckham haircut, genuine. Like, what do you think? I think spiky hair, Beckham's probably one of the best haircuts. The frosted tips when he scores from the half, or that kind of like platinum blonde. Yes.

When he's still got the curtains. Slow, bang. Yeah. I also like the shaved head with the massive, it looked like a Nazi eagle, on his neck, but it's not. Yeah, I think that's kind of... That's nice.

Curtains is good. I think we need a movement towards curtains back in. I think so. Now, in the 2010s, you'd get the start of the Dad Bod, which again is sort of a... Is this a response to body positivity? This is the male body positivity, I'd say. But again, it's not...

But female body positivity wasn't woman bot. Wasn't mum bod. No. Because you wouldn't say that, but it was Mum Bod, but you would say empowerment. Because when a mumboll actually is, is when basically you knock your vaginal wall through and you just have one hole down there.

That's a mum bod. Let's bring that back. Yeah, yeah. My ass and my vagina are the same. Right, yeah. She's got a mum bod. Yeah. And she's got chewed nipples.

I mean, the motherhood experience is different to the fatherhood one. Yeah. You know, we just get a bit fat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was more serious. I know, that's tough. Yes.

That's tough. Well, it's, yes. Devastating. But I'd say the dad bod, bod, again, body positivity is driven more by women in the 2010s. Would you say, actually, that the body positive movement

is the sort of the first time, it's like a battle over the ideal, which it feels like has been male-led this entire time. Trying to reclaim the... And then it's social media, it's democratised media, it's trying to paint culture

from the ground up rather than the top down. It was trying to make it a communal democratic thing. Yes, exactly. You're not striding to an ideal. Yeah, we're all beautiful. We're all beautiful in our own way.

oh wait as empec now let's all be this i feel like the thing that is that's always made the biggest difference for me was it would never be like a big movement it's always just like hearing someone you just hear like a one of your friends talk about someone they find fit and you go i don't find them fit and then you go all right people just find different things fit yeah it's kind of that simple uh then of course there's a backlash to that where you get looks maxing which is kind of where we're at now yeah um you have clavicular smashing his face up with a hammer to try and accentuate uh jawlines and cheekbones well i guess the the clavicular it comes out of intel culture which I never really understood

in so like thesis that women are vain and will only go for genetically superior men when it's kind of the vice versa and ugly men have done so well

romantically. I always had it weird that the in cell thing was I was forced to have this hideous face therefore I'll never have sex therefore I'm going to either take it or shoot up school

when it's like ugly men there's so many role models. They're actually doing amazing just be funny yeah yeah yeah if you're an ugly woman you should be shooting a school up yeah you have way more genuinely yeah yeah um and i guess if out of that uh comes looks maxing

because it's this idea that if you want to move up in the world you have to be look perfect doesn't matter i think it's also about control because i think like for me was a kid i was when i was like stressed about the way i looked what was so terrifying about it was like i have no control over it like i can't change it yeah and then you hear about plastic surgery and then you and then you're like okay so i guess i could control it if i had enough money but now it's like all you need is like hammer and you can just go to town. And with that in mind, I'm going to throw to our Patreon episode this week, which where Paddy will be back

and Annal will still be here and we'll be talking about the history of plastic surgery. Wow, I just did an amazing link. I know. I'm a broadcasting. Liquid podcasting. We've got to wrap up. Anya, thanks so much for coming on. It's a joy. Thank you. Would you like to plug anything? Yes. What should I plug? Newly single?

Yeah. Peach fuzz. Beach fuzz. Which is about her. You're a show about her ass hair and she's looking for Amanda. If you think my ass hair peach fuzz he was so naive that's just the rest um yeah it's it's on tour around the place um and you're also you're just you're also on tour about the place i'm on talking about the place yeah looking for barrel women to bring a barrel bring around the country yeah uh look up your sons lock up your nephews and yeah and daughters and dad's and the dads and the moms

moms are fine there's dogs and rabbits eating each other it's a blood bath um anyway ania's out there Stand-up's great. You should see her live. It's fantastic. Yeah, I can't speak to her to what she's like on a date, but brilliant comic. S&L's back as well at some point.

Yeah. And we'll see on the Patreon for this year of plastic surgery. Bye. Bye. For more of us here, FinVus History, goodbye. Before you knew what a stock was, you traded snacks,

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